The Athletic Hockey Show - Are the New York Islanders the least interesting team in the NHL?

Episode Date: December 4, 2024

Frank, Sean and Sean discuss the Buffalo Sabres epic collapse vs Colorado on Tuesday night and the New York Islanders, two of the NHL's most disappointing teams so far this season, they debate the rumoured roster of Team Canada at the 4-Nations cup, and if Hockey Canada is over thinking their roster and they stick tap the Columbus Blue Jackets and the Flames for their moving tributes for Johnny and Matthew Gaudreau, Tuesday in Calgary.Hosts: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeWith: Frank CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What up, what up? This is the athletic hockey show Wednesday edition. Two Shons and a Frank. The Wednesday boys. We are back. How are we doing, fellas? Well, I got to tell you, I just read a piece in the athletic

from one of the Shans. And I can't help but think of one Dwayne, who might be, like, he's got to be calling into every show right about now. wouldn't you think we missed Duane Dwayne Dwayne the Sabres fan might be calling my cell phone right now you never know you have your number he has my number

Dwayne and I have corresponded over the years I talked to him on the phone I can't even remember what it was about honestly I think it might have been it was something something terrible was going wrong with the Sabers I think it might have been an arena like like Pugula

you know drama based kind of thing I don't even remember why I talked to him So if people don't know who we're talking about, Dwayne was the Sabres fan who almost exactly five years ago called into a radio station had an epic meltdown. Like this dude just opened a vein. And it was, it was fascinating because it was kind of a hard listen. But it was also if you're a fan of any team for a long enough time, you've been there. Like this guy had just lost all hope. Now, when you said you would talk to him, I assumed like you wrote a story about that.

But do you guys like keep in touch? is he your go-to disgruntled I seriously. I bet I have his numbers saved in my phone. This is so bad. I don't even remember what it was about. But it had to have been some other, some other like signpost of hopelessness

for the Buffalo Sabres. It doesn't narrow it down. It doesn't narrow it down. But I called him, I called him for some reason. I don't even know. He's always on our mind, though. I think that's, I think that's the way. And it occurred to me after I submitted my piece because I wrote a piece this morning where I you know I referenced Dwayne and I was like

did we ever like Dwight like it's still good to talk to Wayne right like he didn't get milkshake duct or anything like that like we're uh but now that I know that he's a personal friend of yours I feel I will I will I will say that for whatever this is so horrid this is this is awful podcasting because I can't remember what what the story was for but like I talked to a couple other people and they were like oh yeah I heard you talk to Dway it was like yeah okay all right like isn't it nice though like isn't it nice though like isn't it nice to have like a hardcore fan within a certain fan base

that just lets you know what the temperature is like. But you need to know that that guy is passionate, invested, and is going to give you like real feedback because, you know,

as much as we follow everything, to have real boots on the ground, like that makes a difference. And like, you're not going to find better boots on the ground than, than Dwayne. Our guy's been winter boots on the ground for sure in Buffalo, man. Yeah, I hear it.

I hear it snows in that in that region of the world. I'm never known. Not speaking from any kind of, any kind of recent personal experience. Yeah, our guy was in the trenches last night. Sabres up big. This is why we're talking to him. Sabres are up big last night. It was 4-0, wasn't it?

They end up losing 5-4 to the abs in regulation, which is a major feat. I think that's, I think that might be the most impressive part of the entire meltdown that we saw last night. I think it was like the third time that that had happened in the loser point error, the cap error or something like that. Like it's very rare to blow a four-goal lead and not even get a point. Incredible. Wild.

And you chased Georgia from the game. And yet like, you, you kind of did what you needed to do. And then just like Marty St. Louis had a quote earlier this year where he said the habs puked all over themselves. if the habs puked all over themselves, I don't even know what that is from the savers. That's coming out of both ends. Like, that's full on blue bug on the toilet,

not sure which side needs to enter the toilet. Is it top or bottom? That's out of both ends. That was a food poisoning loss from the Buffalo Sabres. Do we just coin a term? I think we might have. That was food poisoning, hugging the toilet seat. on the av side of things

Sean you mentioned it Scott Wedgwood comes in the recently acquired Scott Wedgwood clearly the answer to all the problems in Colorado as we laid out last week did we just see the Wally Pip situation play out yeah yeah exactly the other thing is

I had to appreciate it wasn't it's not it wasn't quite exactly the anniversary but we were one day off the anniversary of the infamous Patrick Waugh game oh my god and now it's a call Colorado goalie who gets pulled, except instead of leaving him in for nine goals, which he probably would have got to, they made the pull a little bit early. And oh, ho-home, we'll just win the game now. Okay, but this, this Buffalo thing, it obviously is interesting because, you know, it's so, like,

it's such a stark contrast within the game, what happened. But this is why it catches my attention, is the things have been going pretty well for the Buffalo Sabres. Like, they're winning games, they're climbing the standings, they're kind of knocking on the door there. Like things are starting to come around for them. Lukinen's playing well. And then this happens. And I think it's just so symbolic of,

you know, what Sabers fans who know their team better than anyone, obviously, like they don't need us to tell them. But like for what they've gone through, where it's like, this is the team. Like we're, you know,

we're making steps. We're going in the right direction. Actually, we're just going to pull you back and no, you're not. And it happened in the game last night. And it was just, it's like, here we go again. It's like the game within the game is a microcosm of what they've gone through the last however many years where you think they're on the right track. Actually, no, you're not. We're pulling you back down into a very brutal reality. It's Charlie Brown in the football, right? With them, I feel like,

anytime it gets close and there's reason to believe something like this happens. And we're looking at it now four straight losses last night it's you know not quite historic but close enough it's one of those ones that sticks even though it might not be at the top of lists when it comes to you know record breaking stuff

um I in Sean like I think this it's a oddly oddly oddly time because I know I know you didn't just throw this together at starting at 11 o'clock Eastern last night you know you have absolutely not no

and it was Like I was telling you guys, this, this happens to me a lot because usually, you know, peek behind the scenes. Most of the stuff I write usually goes in like the afternoon before so that the editors can get a hold of it and turn it into something readable. And that means there's always the night before of games and it's like a running joke with me that it, whatever I write, that night's games will disprove it and make me look dumb by the next morning. And when I looked at when I flipped on TV and I saw the sabres are up for nothing, I'm like, yeah, of course. of course i've written this piece where i talk about the the hopelessness of savers fans and i'm just going to get dunked on all morning because they're they're going to have blown out the ass and yeah it didn't work out that way and the piece today is like which which fan base

he was on the way to like to the dwayne level that tipping point because you're right that it's it's it's losing hope and it's the worst feeling as a fan and and i think sabers fans probably got a taste of it last night is when you you feel a little bit of hope and it gets taken away and then you feel dumb about it. You feel like why did I think something good was going to happen? I, you know, how stupid of me to think that I would get to be happy watching this team? It may sound like I'm speaking from experience. This is this is your, are you going to bring this back to the leaf? Is he going to do it?

Is he going to do it? I didn't put the Leafs in the piece today. Didn't put them in there because I needed a cutoff, right? because every, anytime you write a thing like this, there's, I guarantee every fan base, there's somebody out there. Like, there's some Florida Panthers fan who's like, how about us?

We're miserable. And it's like, get out of here. I did. You had to be on track to miss the playoffs for at least a third straight year. You guys know how many teams in this parody stricken league of competitive balance where anybody can beat anyone? Do you know how many teams are on pace to miss the playoffs for the third straight year? Hold on a second.

I love parody stricken league. It's a disease. It's a disease that has watched over the NHL. Yeah, parity stricken, but we're going to have the same teams making the playoffs again. How many teams are on pace? There are 12 teams right now on pace to miss the playoffs for the third straight year. And a lot of those teams, it's significantly more than three years. I mean, with the Sabres, obviously they have the record already looking like they might add to that.

but a dozen teams. That really surprised me that there's that many who are on extended streaks. You know, we always talk about how there's so much churn in the playoffs, but maybe there's not as much as we think there is. Or maybe it's just the same handful of teams churning in and out every few years. Well, some teams got caught in these rebuilds that it just seems like they're going to take forever to get out of, if they ever do. And then it's like, okay, go through the divisions in the Atlantic.

who's taking anything away from the big four there. Buffalo, not if they keep doing stuff like what happened last night. In the metro, like is Columbus ever knocking off the devils, Rangers, capitals, like it's just,

I don't know. And then you go through the central, you know, there's, it's just there's, there's a lot of close teams in the central right now. Like that seems to be the division of air. The blues are kind of that,

yeah, a slotting around team. I had a very funny comment on this. piece. Someone's, because somebody was like, the blues aren't on pace to miss the playoffs. There are only two points out of a wild card. What do you think that means? Yeah, dude.

That's, I got bad news for you, but what happens if you're going to miss out of a wild card at the end of the year. But yeah, the blues are sort of that team. The other thing is, it is very Eastern heavy too, because you're right. Those three Atlantic teams feel like they're all the same team at this point. Buffalo, Detroit, Ottawa. Same, same thing happening. Montreal, even behind those guys.

Yeah. The Western teams, there's not as many, but there is, like, there's St. Louis, San Jose and Anaheimer rebuilding. And then the one I put in there, I did put Utah, even though, as we know, they are a brand new franchise with absolutely no history whatsoever. Correct. None. They're definitely not the coyotes. But I counted them as the coyotes anyways. So, like, if you talk about the metro, like, I was doing the Habs Islanders last.

night. And, you know, I think we're coming to a point with a few teams where at some point, if they don't retool it, you wonder what the future is going to look like for them. Austin's one of those teams, although they've, you know, they've played better now. Pittsburgh's one of those teams. All of a sudden, they're winning games now. But the Islanders, you know, coming in the last night's game, not a great record. You don't think of, I don't know, I don't think of the Islanders when it comes to the playoff picture, but they were still only three points back of the final. playoff spot at that point.

And I'm like, if the islanders get to the point where they got to turn it over, that could look like a long time being a bad team, couldn't it? Like, there's just, there's nothing in Bridgeport. Who's your high-end guys that are coming up other than, I don't know, Cole Iserman? But, I mean, that could be, that could be a long time work in progress. No cap space, right? Because you have a bunch of mediocre guys, mediocre or worse guys.

on long contracts. It's time for forever. Like we had to have Pierre Engval for seven years. This is what's crazy. Somebody else would have jumped on that guy at six years. If you have the chance to lock up Pierre Engval for seven years and you don't do it, like, come on. You have to.

You just have to. It's a deal you can't refuse. But in fairness, they went seven years, but he did knock like $4,000 off the average annual value to get down to that. Okay. But how much money do the Islanders love dishing out? you paid Rick DiPietro. Are they still paying him or is he done now? He's off.

He's still being paid. He's not on the cap, but I believe he is still being paid. Okay. So they're, they've paid Rick DiPietro for a quarter of a century. Now they're going to pay Pierre Engval for three quarters of a decade. Like when you put it in those terms, it is wild.

They did. They do have yashin off the books as of like a year ago. Finally. Yeah. And here's, here's the question for the Islanders. Let's say you start a rebuild. Who's doing it?

Lou Lamarillo is going to do your long-term rebuild. This is the guy who's going to set out the five to ten-year plan for contending again. I don't think so. They're puckpedia page or whatever sites you use, man, it's just, it's just a war zone. I did a piece on when when Cap Brandley was still around and I called it the Red Arrow. Red Arrow also. I just went to each. Yeah, I went to each team and I was like, how many red arrows do they have?

And the red arrow was when the contract was so long that it like went off the page. And the I was blown away. The Islanders were number one. Like a mediocre team being number one on that list was crazy to me. And it wasn't even like the superstar players for the most part. It was a whole bunch of third and fourth line guys. And they're proof too. The Islanders are proof to me that you can sign good players to bad contracts.

Because like I like, I'll take. I'll take Bo Horvat on my team. Like, fine. Do I want Bo Horvat to make 8.5 million against the cap until 2031? And do I want Bo Horvat to be one of my will be generous and say two or three best forwards? No. If you do that, if that's going on as your top line item, regardless of all the other crap that's happening with them, paying Pierre Engval, paying Gabby Peugeot, paying all these guys a little or a lot more than they're worth under any.

set of, you know, circumstances. Having Beau Horvat at the top, along with Barzell, and along with some of those other guys, is just like, that's problem one. And it's a trickle-down effect from there. Right. Okay. So let's, let's be fair first to the Islanders. Right now, they're missing Barzell, they're missing Duclair. And at one point this year, they were missing their whole left side of their decor at the same time. It was Pelic, it was Riley, and it was Romano. Now, Romanov is back, but Pelic and Riley are still gone. Barzal and Du Claire are still out.

When you take one skilled player off that roster, holy smokes, does it look very different? Like they really need Barzal. They really need Duclair because if they don't have those guys in the lineup, everyone just kind of looks the same. And I think that's why this Russian kids came in this year, Siplikov. He's been such a like revelation for them because he kind of has

the mold of like the Nelson Lee type guys like that are that are big strong guys but he's skilled which which obviously they they really need but um I got such an appreciation for watching Sorokin last night like that team they got peppered and they do this a lot they lean on Sorokin and he gave them a chance to win that game and ultimately he's the reason why they got a point in overtime like they really lean on Sorokin. it's just a it's a bet they're a bad way this is what we talked about last night the three of us like right now especially with barzell out because barzell's the game breaker he's the offensively town he's the interesting player on that team basically at this point with him out you know you're

flipping around you're like what all right i'm trying to i'm gonna watch one period of one of the one of the seven o'clock starts like what's it going to be and for the way they look right they're disqualified from the conversation for like i i don't want to want to watch them. Like I'm flipping around last night. It's it's it's it's it's has versus aisles. I'm watching this. I'm thinking man, you know, you know, you know what it suck would be having to call this game? Like I was thinking of the four saps that had to. Oh, it had to be a game. It was a one game. It was it was an exciting game, um, actually because the goalies both stood on their heads like Sorokan played great. Montembow played great. Um, it was funny with with Montembow.

and I'm sure we'll get into the four four nation stuff but segment two yes we were saying man that looks like that looks like a guy who got a really nice phone call today doesn't it like he was he was really good and then the lineate thing

was really cool last night him getting the goal first game as a hab bell center he did say something and I don't want to blow it up obviously but it was like that's the loudest building I've ever heard and I'm like head I'm like there would have been some pretty loud nights playing in

Winnipeg for sure you know like the Bell Center is such a special place but man there's there was some loud nights in Winnipeg yeah with like 6,000 less people or whatever the size the Bell Center does come into play at least like I'm trying I'm trying to not get us dragged by people in Winnipeg I'm trying to save all three of us from that it's a smaller building there's like there's a bunch more people like blah blah blah like like yada yada that says a lot about Patrick Kalani's career and how it's gone for the last five years or six years, that that that's the best moment that he's experienced in quite a while. If the loudest building you've ever heard is in December, maybe.

I remember watching the line A Matthews game where Matthews missed the overtime chance and then line goes down the other way and he scores the winner. I was in the bowels of that arena because I was a healthy scratch and I'm watching on a monitor and because you're watching on the monitor, it's delayed. And so you hear the goalhorn go off. And then watching that happen, I'm like, okay, we have the puck. Oh, wait, Austin Matthews has the puck right now. Oh, he's going to score.

But wait, I heard the Winnipeg goalhorn. How the hell did this all happen? And then he misses, goes back the other way. You see line A score. But that, like, watching in the bowels of that arena, I'm like, that is loud. That was really loud. I'll tell you right now. Because I went to the first Jets playoff game of Jets 2.0, and it was the loudest building I've ever been into my life.

Patrick Lining was on the team that went to the conference final. There's no way that a Montreal regular season game, game 24. or whatever it is. He's the loudest building he's ever heard. El Center's a special place. It really is. And it was a good reminder last night of how special of an arena that can be.

And good for line A to get that goal. That was a really cool moment. Like the guy's been through so much with all the injuries, the mental health struggles. Now he's really involved in the community here, like really trying to insert himself and everything, Montreal.

So I thought that was just incredibly well-deserved for a guy that he needed that. I was happy for him. You know what else? The Bell Center is going to be loud? No. The Four Nations face off in February. We seem, it seems like we have rosters for that.

We're going to wink, nod, pretend that maybe we kind of don't. We have some thoughts. One of us certainly does have some thoughts. We'll hit on that when we come back. All right, we're back. Fellas, we would be in dereliction of our duty, I think. if we didn't mention this in some capacity, Haley and I are going to talk about this

in depth a little bit more on the Thursday show because they're being announced at some point after we're recording. It is four nation face off roster time. They are being announced on Wednesday. They were submitted on Monday

over the course of the last 24 hours ago. I know this is going to shock all of you. It seems like they've started to leak. No. Yeah, can you believe it? So we have, what's, how should we put this? We have some projections we trust from some of our colleagues around, around the media that, that have been published, that have been discussed on television. We're not telling tales out of school here.

The big one that dropped last night, it seems like, if not entirely, we certainly know the bulk of the Canadian roster for the, for the best on best tournament that takes place in February. personally as an American fan I'm psyched about it I like I like the Vadoa that roster I think it'll be a lot of fun but Sean and I know I know you got some thoughts brother let's let's start with you how about that you know what I went into this

having done the same exercise everyone's done where you're putting your own rosters together and I was like man I don't I don't feel like team Canada is as strong as I'm used to seeing and this was before we got into some of the leaks I don't hate almost any of the individual selections. But man, this feels like they ended up thinking themselves and certain.

I know the term galaxy brain's been thrown around a lot, you know, as meaning that you've sort of overthought something. I stopped using that term in writing, by the way. And I take it out of Dom's all the time whenever we do power rings. I'm like, galaxy, galaxy brain is on the, that's on the, that's on the, don't let it be a On the two-not fly list. Exactly. Thank you very much. You're correct.

I'd say two main points here. First of all, this is, I don't get this. I don't get Sam Montemov being on the team. I just, oh, I got something. Okay, I got something on that. But you say your spiel. I got something else. Well, because here's the thing.

And I get, you know, in theory it's the third goalie. And in a tournament like this, especially short one, the third goalie's job is to sit in the press box. Maybe he gets to dress for one game as a backup. Like against Finland, you let the third guy put the uniform on and sit on the bench under normal surgery. I mean, we've seen that with like Eddie Belford did that one year in like where this, this guy's a Hall of Famer. And he was just there just to be there. Fine. I'm sure he had a great time, though.

But that he probably did. I was just going to say. He made it worth his trip. He got a lot of feeling he did. Probably didn't want to be in the next. You do that. That year, I think was the year they had Martambrador. and Curtis Joseph.

Yeah. I don't see Mark Tambrot Err on this rate. It's not like there's, if there's a one in a two, go ahead and pick whoever you want for three. But they don't have a one or a two. This has been the story all years that Canada doesn't have the goaltending. So you need three guys that can all be the guy. Because you're not going to have any idea going into that tournament who the real starter is. And it may be in flux.

And that third guy might play. That third guy might start. So I don't get why we're getting a guy in Sam Monubo who I know some people like him. Jesse loves him. He's not having a good year. So why aren't we picking three guys who are having the best year and then and then crossing our fingers? Do you dislike the Sam Montembo pick because it's Montembo or do you dislike the pick because of what it represents, which is like there might not be a better, there might not be a better selection out there.

It's both. It's both. It is, it is both. Yeah. I would be, like I said, if there were two, if there were two guys ahead of him that I felt good about, go ahead. I mean, he's not young, but he's youngish.

So, you know, go ahead and take somebody like that. But, man, like, I, going into this season, I felt like the whole Canada goaltending thing was maybe a little overrated as far as, as being an issue because I was like, look, it's goaltending. 20 games into the season, somebody will have emerged and be having a great year and be in, like, the Vezna conversation that we're not even thinking. thinking about necessarily. It'll be fine. Well, we're 20 games in. That hasn't happened. It's not fine. All right. Here's my... Please tell me you're going to make me feel better about

not worse. I'm, I think I'm going to make you feel better. Like, I, I don't disagree with a lot of what you said. I truly believe that we have given so much oxygen to who is the third goalie for Team Canada. Where in the grand scheme of things, you're right. Like, this is a guy who sits in a suit and shouldn't really factor in. The nature of the Canadian goaltending landscape is that this guy could very well factor in. And I think that's where, for me, it makes sense that Montembo is on the team. Because it comes down to this.

What are you evaluating? Are you evaluating the goaltender's ceiling or the goaltender's floor? And if you knew Bennington and Hill were going to be on that team, because those are the guys you trust that have won Stanley Cups, there's a pool of guys now vying for that third job. It's Montembow, it's Talbot, it's Logan Thompson, and so, you know, whoever else you want to throw into that mix. But if you're evaluating those goaltenders and saying, of all those guys, their best night, compare that to the other guy's best night. And what does that look like?

And if you look at Montembo's best nights this year, I think he has had more nights. where you would say couldn't beat him tonight. The Toronto game, the Edmonton game, the two shutouts that he had. Last night against the Islanders, he was brilliant. He has been inconsistent. That is, I will give you that. There has been ups and downs for him. But I think if you're evaluating the ceiling and saying on a good team in front of him,

with good players and good structure, the ceiling for Montembo is higher than the ceiling for Talbot and Thompson and whoever else was going to be in that mix. So that's what you go with. And that's maybe the risk that you take. But I think you're evaluating the high end, not what the floor can be. And that's why for me, I think Montembo's a sound peck. Thoughts?

That makes sense. But to me, you need the ceiling for the goalie if you're looking to pull an upset. And I think the argument would be, this is Team Canada. They don't need the ceiling. They need to not hit the floor. They need good goaltending. Great goaltending would be fantastic, but they need good goaltending to,

that's not going to be the reason that an otherwise, you know, the best 18 skaters in the tournament lose because they didn't have anybody who, you know, they're not going to go save for save with Connor Hallibuck or Jake Ottinger, whoever. We know the U.S. is going to have better goaltending,

but it needs to be, good enough that it's not the reason they lose. I get that. The other thing that probably factors in a little bit, probably not as much, but Montembow was really good at the men's worlds a couple years ago in that gold medal game when Canada won. And I think, like, the fact that he's done it on the international stage, you know, pressure kind of game, whatever you think about the men's worlds, that's, you know, fine. But that's probably a smidge of it. But I think the, the majority of it has to come down to like the games where he's played well this year,

you just, you feel like you couldn't beat him. And I get the, you know, the argument with the floor and all that kind of stuff. Listen, at the end of the day, I do think we are going back and forth on a guy who very likely doesn't even dress.

Like that's, you know, I just, I still think for the third goalie, we've given it so much oxygen. Here's my take on this team, this projected team Canada team, because everyone I'm sure wants to get into this guy,

got snub. This guy should have been on the team. This is my headline. There are no snubs on Team Canada. There are just players who played their way off that team. Is that fair to say? I like it. Yeah. Well, there are definitely some players who played their way off and maybe some players who played their way into the discussion who aren't going to make it. Because yeah, you're right. At the end of the day, there's not 30 roster spots. There's 20. But I got to say, when you look at some of the names that are on there, this is, and maybe this is me being a little too negative.

What, Sean, when I say the term ghost roster, does that ring anybody? Like, does that mean anything to an American hockey fan? No, because it sends chills down the back of,

of a Canadian fan, at least one that's old enough, because the ghost roster was a concept they came up in, in Canadian hockey in the mid-90s, when they lost the World Cup to the United States in 96, and they were losing the world juniors.

I remember that. I remember that. And there was this theory. And the theory was we're building these best on best rosters wrong because we're taking the 20 best players. We shouldn't be taking the 20 best players. What you should do, the thinking was you fill out what does an ideal hockey roster look like?

What does the perfect hockey team look like? So your first line, those are your skill guys. Those are your guys who are going to score. Second line, also skill guys who can score. Maybe you want a little bit of. size on that line. Third line, that's your bangers and crashers, fourth line. Those are your defensive guys, your shutdowns, your penalty killer, your face-off guy, all of that. And you go down the list and you make that roster and then you drop in the players who are the best at that

individual skill set. And that's how you build the best team, not necessarily the best collection at 20 skaters. Sounds pretty good in theory. In reality, it gets you things like Rob Zahomner making the 1998 Olympic team over Mark Messier because in their ghost roster they had, you know, defensive forward on the fourth line grinder. And so he was the guy that they tapped for that. And they did it for a few years and it didn't work. And by the time 2002 rolled around, ghost roster was a bad, was a bad word to use in Canada. And the reason was that in theory, if you've got best on best, yeah, the reason why

have fourth liners and third line banger and crashes because most teams don't have access to a bunch of superstars. Team Canada does. So load it up with superstars and just have more skill and more talent than everyone. And we certainly don't have any Rob Zamner picks on this team, but, you know, an individual, like you want to put Brandon Higel on the team, you want to put these guys, okay, go ahead. Man, it just feels like there's a few of those guys. And I'm, I'm the scenario that I'm picturing in a world where.

There's no Mark Schifley, there's no John Tavares, there's no Stephen Stamco's. He is, again, going back to that, what killed that 98 team, which is they ended up running into a hot goalie and they couldn't score. Now, that hot goalie was in his prime Dominic Asick, so maybe it didn't matter. But, man, can't you see this Canada team being up against the team USA or even Finland or sweet and just they're down one nothing in the third period? and you're like, where's the offense? Why do we have all these defensively conscious grinders when we had all the skill in the world? We got all these 30, 40 goal guys sitting at home

and we can't score. For me, I mean, I know I joked about it at the top where I'm like I like seeing these projections as an American hockey fan. I mean, a lot of that is just posturing by me, right? Because I look at the bottom six, I think Brina Hale is a great hockey player. And I think he's shown a lot in Tampa over the last couple years.

especially last year where you could argue that he dragged around Stamco, so at least from a from an up and down the ice, you know, five on five perspective. He looked, he looked great. Seth Jarvis, he got all the time. Seth Jarvis is a,

is a first line winger. He's a top six winger in the, in the NHL right now, but he's also got the kind of game that translates well to, we'll say third line, fourth line, extra forward, whatever.

He's a great guy to have around in any capacity. Right. So I look at these projections and I want to make fun of them. Like, I want to, I want to throw some darts over Anthony Sorrelli, potentially being in a best on best tournament. But like, they're good players, man. And they're not in the, and these aren't, these aren't, these aren't, these aren't Rob Zaminers.

These are, these are guys who have nothing else. I guess here's what I'm saying. Samner was a good player too, but. Sure. Yeah, yeah, we're, we're, this is, this is Rob Zamner slander out. Anthony Sorrelli might be the modern day Rob Zad. That'll be my next call of these guys. He's seven, seven views.

Here's what I'll say is that they didn't pick grinders. They pick really good middle six players to play down a little bit. And I think that makes, I think that makes. They didn't take Tom Wilson, which is maybe the, that was the test. So someone did ask me about that. Like, do you think they should have taken Tom Wilson? I think if you take Tom Wilson, he's a good player, right? Like, he does what he does very well.

I think if you take him, you've put him in a box in your fourth line, right wing, and you've said that's where you go and you just stay there. But all these other guys, Kinekney, Bennett, Jarvis, Hagel, Stone if he's healthy, it's very versatile. Like I think that's what comes to mind for me is that it's a very versatile lineup. And all those guys,

um, they serve a purpose as far as being hard to play against. And that I think is important for, for this group because if you kind of bring it back to NHL, Okay, Florida just won being hard to play against. Vegas one being hard to play against. Tampa was hard to play against when they won their cups. Like Colorado was hard to play against in a different way.

Like they were just so fast, so, like, so skilled, so speedy. But I think that's the big takeaway for me when I see the guys lower in the lineup. It's they wanted skilled players that are hard to play against because in a short tournament like this, if you can do nothing else, like if those guys can't produce, if Hagle can't produce, if Kinekney, Bennett, Jarvis, if they can't produce,

which is, hey, maybe they won't be able to, at least they're going to be serving some kind of purpose as far as making the team harder to play against. That's, but here's, here's,

my counterpoint to that is when I think of a team being hard to play against, like Florida, like Vegas, I'm thinking of hard to play against in a seven game series, where you're going every 40, eight hours and we can look and we can say we're going to wear these guys down.

And you know what? We might not see the benefits in game one in game two, but by games five, six and seven, we're going to have ground these guys into a paste and we're going to have the edge there. This is a term, it's a four game tournament. You're going to play one team twice if you get to the gold medal game and you're going to play everyone else once. I just don't see how you're necessarily going to be that hard to play against when it's one and done in these matchups.

That's what concerns me a little bit. So what do we think about the back end? Because I think there's two guys that kind of played their way off this team Canada back end. And the other thing that I think needs to be said about the Canadian decor is that, and I don't know if they would do this. I don't know if they would think about what the Americans are going to throw at them, but that's Billy Garron picking the team. And Billy Garron likes big, burly.

players, right? Like, that's kind of been his MO. And so that's going to be, American team is going to be pretty big. We knew McCar was going to be there. We knew Taves was going to be there, Theodore Morrissey. But then you have Petrangelo, Pareko, and Sanheim. And those guys are all big. And Bouchard was not going to be able to do what those guys do. Like, he's just not built that way. Dobson is big, but doesn't play overly physical or big.

Also not having a great season. season. We just talked about the Islanders for 10 minutes and didn't bring him up, and that's probably a bad sign. Yeah, Patrick was been critical of his play this year, too, like, just said he's not carrying the puck, and he took him off the first power play and had him on the second unit. And he was, anyways, he was, he was back on the first power play last game. But, like, that's, I think you almost looked at the decor and said, okay, we have the puck movers. We have the, the, the, the skilled guys. But we need big guys. But we also need big guys that can play with pill a little bit.

And I think Pareco, you know, he fits that. Sanheim fits that. And Petro Angelo's your like steady veteran. Like I, as much as, you know, you might have left some raw skill on the table. It still makes sense, the guys that you brought on the team. Like, you find the purpose. My only thought about the, about the decor, especially as it relates to maybe bringing a guy like Paraco, who, you know, big can carry the puck still.

He'll be able to do, he's always going to be big. He's always going to be able to, you know, move around with it a bit, a bit, regardless of how far he gets into his career. My concern, I guess, is like, and it's, it's a short, it's a short tournament, Sean, like you said. So it's maybe, maybe not that, maybe not that big of a deal. I would, I would bring Bouchard potentially as, like, top four insurance. Don't play him.

Like, he can be, he can be your extra. You bring him in case. In case Kilmacar trips going up the stairs. If Kil McCar isn't at the absolute top of his game, like where does the offense come from on the backside? Like you're right. They've got some guys who can play a little bit. Josh Forreste is good. Yeah, I mean, to me, again, I'm just, I'm having this nightmare of it's two to one against Team USA.

There's 10 minutes left. You're not generating offense and you're sitting there going, Colton Pereko is taking shifts. while Evan Bouchard or Dougie Hamilton are sitting at home. Guys that can really move it. And, you know, I'm not looking for them to score. I mean, Parakel can score. But it's, it's, who's the guy that's turning a play around, making the big pass, getting it going? I'm just a little, it just, it feels again like we're back to this version of Team Canada philosophy where the assumption is that you're winning by a goal.

Who do we want on this team when we're up by a goal with five minutes left? and the problem is somebody's got a score to get you up by that goal. Because if they don't, now you're down and how do you, I don't look at this group going up against the goaltending. They're going to be going and wipe that smile off your face, Gentilly. I can see it. But that's that's what concerns me a little bit. So the seventh defenseman thing for me, I would have had like nothing against Travis Anheim. He's having a really good year.

He deserves to be on that team. No doubt. McKenzie Weger, I think, would have been the last player talked about as far as being the seventh guy. Because right-handed shot, who plays the left side and plays in all situations very well. And you talk about offense, McKenzie Weger scores goals better than almost any defenseman in the NHL. So if you're thinking about who's my insurance for anything as far as a defenseman go, I think McKenzie Weger would have been the perfect pick for that because how many right-hand shots can play the left side if they have to,

which is what he does normally. And yeah, you could slide him back to the right if you had to. He'd do fine. But that's the one where I'm like, I think I would have probably gone with Weger there. I should have seen that comment. We've been doing this show long enough.

I know that Frankie's a big, you're a big Wegerhead, dude. I knew it. You've gas him up before. He's awesome. It's good right-hand. handed shots. So you know what I mean? Like got a spot. Got to represent.

The last thing I'm going to say on this is the two names other than Monombo that kind of jump out at me that we've already talked about, Sorrelli and Paraco. Well, who's the coach of this team and who's the GM? There you go. It's, it's Sorrelli's coach and it's Barako's GM.

So I hope this is a case of they just know these guys better versus, well, it's my guy and I'm going to pound the table for my guy and we're going to get that. And, and the last thing I'll say is Sweeney's involved too. And I liked on Sweeney as a GM. I actually, I think he takes too much, too much crap for what's going on in Boston,

given how much success they've had. I like him a lot as a GM. But he was in the room for that infamous video of the Bruins talking themselves out of Tyler Sagan. Remember that, right? He doesn't play Bruins hockey and, you know, that nonsense that they actually put on the internet for reasons I will never understand. Man, it feels like this.

roster just has a bit of that vibe. I can picture them. Does he play team Canada hockey? Does he play Arcana? And it's like, I don't know, man. I don't know. And again, wipe the smile off your face, Gentile, because you guys picked it. Last time we did this, you guys picked your team based on dreams that people were having. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I hope very, very much that I'm proven wrong. Your American team will be answering why Cole Cofield is not on the team. Meanwhile, the guys got more goals than basically. all the other guys that are going to be on that team.

So good luck explaining that one other than he's not six foot four. When's his start? We got two months before this. We have plenty of time to figure out like long, by the way. Why don't we name these rosters like a week before? Because guys got to know if they're going to book Cabo or Montreal or Boston. Okay. And you got to get a head of that kind of stuff.

Get the refundable one. You know, what we need to do is go back to how we. used to do this in it like in the Canada Cup days there used to be like a camp and they would invite like 30 guys and then they would cut guys can you imagine like I mean we're talking now about oh what a snub for John Tiverra imagine John Tavares getting like called into John Cooper's office and being told like turn around you're not on the team like Steve Iserman did by Mike in in 91 like that would be wild but imagine that but you bring them in and you make them do ball hockey and gym shorts and then you cut them.

All right. Remember that? Remember that the guys doing all the systems in ball hockey and gym shorts? That is right. From a media standpoint, what they should have done. And this is like kind of, this isn't replicable just because of where we are in the game versus 20, versus 2014. They should have found some way to recreate the experience of having. the Olympic rosters get announced during the winter classic,

which is what happened, which is what happened that year. And that is whenever they left Phil, and they made it, they left Phil off the U.S. roster. They made all these, like,

crazy decisions. And we're in the media room, like, at the big house in Michigan. And it's like, a bomb went off. Like everyone's like, everyone's like trying to scramble and figure out and figure out what happened.

It doesn't seem like, it wasn't that the year that like they had like, like James Van Riesda. Like, like go and like walk out like he was but he was like walking like out back to the rink like with music playing like he was a pro wrestler. The entire thing. The entire thing is bizarre.

There's there's your galaxy brain. Remember the World Cup of hockey and they didn't pick Kessel and then he was tweeting out like weird. Feels like I should be doing something right now. Can't put my finger on it. Yeah. There's your galaxy. Garis might be tweeting tweeting that out.

Can't can't put my amulet on it but I feel like I should be doing something. Yes. they brought it back to the Leafs 46 minutes later brought it back to the Leafs I will allow it because it worked in the Amulet that's the only that's the only time

we're allowed to end segments on how does this affect the Leafs and that's what we're going to do right now Frankie good morning my friend we'll talk to next week have a good one see yeah all right Frank's gone

he's leaving his very tastefully appointed Montreal Hotel Room Sean, what did we learn this week? I'm learning that I may have been a little hasty on engraving the Central Division trophy for the Winnipeg Jets, largely because there is not a trophy for the Central Division, but maybe there should be.

I don't know, can we get the sponsors back from... What can we call it? Are they the Honda? I don't know. I never once used those. Nobody else did ever. The funniest part about all the divisional names, by the way, is that it just hammers home that the league has a bunch of like B-list sponsors. Yeah.

So it's like Honda because you can't get, you know, Mercedes. It's Discover because you can't get Visa. It's New Amsterdam because you can't get, you know, absolute or Titos or whatever. That's it. And, yeah, the Winnipeg Jets after starting with the best 15 game start. in NHL history. Fakes that, by the way.

They've not been good for a little while now. And they have lost force rate in regulation. The Minnesota Wilde have won four straight in regulation. The Minnesota Wild are now in first place in the Central Division. No, you know, no games played trickery. They're ahead in points and points percentage. Dallas Stars are right behind Winnipeg. is this is starting to feel like the jets are just going to wind up as that third team,

maybe fourth team if Colorado comes on. Or not. I mean, we've seen, nobody looked at the 14-1 jets and went. These guys are the 77 haps. Like, nobody was expecting them to just run away with the president's trophy.

But you definitely felt like this. Maybe this is going to be the year. It all clicks together. and it's it's unclinked lately and I'm concerned. It's the same stuff. I used to be a lot more obnoxious about this. I've mellowed a bit in my old age, but like you watch,

you watch the way they're winning games. All credit to them points count. Like I'm done trying to invalidate, you know, runs of good play because that's not, it's not fun. But with Winnipeg, early on when they're in their fake start 15 and 0,

or fake stat 15 and 0 start, a lot of power play success a lot and not a ton of power play chances like this wasn't some you know chance machine at five on four necessarily this was a team that was doing a good job of of of of shooting the puck and beating goaltenders is that something that's replicable and sustainable over the over an 82 game season i don't know and especially when you look at you know the other stuff that's going on under the hood. This remains not a great five-on-five team. Like, again,

goaltending counts, power play counts, whatever, but that's just a, that's a tough way to live if you want to stay at the top of a division that has a bunch of other really good teams. And we should say one bit of like,

I guess quasi, I will say quasi-break news. Tyler Sagan, we mentioned the stars before. He's out four to six months after hip surgery, which is bad news for him. He'd been productive. He'd been a big part of that,

a big part of that that line with with mason marchman who's also been really good so that's dallas losing you know at least some kind of element of secondary scoring from there but still man that's a that's a really really tough division that in winnipeg seems like they're falling off base yeah so i i you're right i mean goaltending is a big thing there i'm i'm worried that connor hellbuck is being overworked a little bit i think he should take a couple weeks off of february i'm just I think you shut it down. Get on a beach somewhere, Connor. Put the team first, buddy.

It's all about, it's all about your NHL team. Put the Jets first. Outshot 19 to 3 in the second. And in fact, if I was, if I was a fan in Winnipeg, I would try to physically prevent him

from leaving Winnipeg during that time. Is it, is it possible that that's going to be like some kind of weird, uh, you know, subversion tactic by Connor Hallibuck. He's like,

yeah, I don't feel great. Uh, Jake should probably, Jake Ottinger should probably, probably go and play and work for an extra two weeks while I recover. We can just let the Dallas Stars goal tender handle this. Go let the Dallas go.

Yep. Yep. Let Dallas go, man. Produce producer Jeff suggested that that Hellebuck takes Kyle Conner with him as well. That's a great idea. That's a great idea. That's fantastic. I don't want to.

Two out of three. Sorry. Vote. Vote carries. What did you learn? The Pittsburgh Penguins aren't totally dead yet. They should be, but they should be based on the way that they started that season, this season. Forest rate wins.

They beat Florida. They blow a lead against Florida, come back and get two points in overtime against them. They are one point out of the wild card here on December 4th, Sean. I feel like we've, I don't want to say we jump the gun because that team stinks, but. You did bury the lead a little bit. They do kind of stink. And they play three more games and everybody else. Yeah, I guess that is true.

But like, here's the reason to bring it up, honestly, is because the rest of the wildcard pool, the rest of the of the wild card contenders are also are also kind of bad too. And we're talking about the New York Rangers who look like a mess right now. They look, they look dead on their feet, honestly. I don't, we had the Lavalek discussion last week with Frankie, so we don't need to relitigate that. But something, something funky's going on there. There's a whole lot of mediocre teams there.

that make it so we can't just completely discount the rest of the Pittsburgh Penguin season, which I was fully well and fully ready to do. Force rate wins, you know, Phil Tomasino, obviously a first-line talent. He's a future Rocket or Shard winner. At least that's what he's playing this far. But, you know, the big variable there, the big variable there, of course, Shaanke said. They've played more games than anybody else. But, man, it's a...

Rulins, Flames, and the Stanley Cup championship. champion Panthers, which is an overtime win when only half counts. The lesson here, not necessarily, it shouldn't necessarily be about them. But I think that this is what we're going to see from the wild card race in the Eastern Conference moving forward for the rest of the year is that if a team gets hot and you win three games in a row or four games in a row, regardless of how cooked you seem to be before that and how cooked you may well end up being a month from now, you're going to be in the discussion for a little bit.

And I think that's what we're seeing. That's what we're seeing from Pittsburgh. Now, now everyone but Montreal or everyone, everyone. See everyone, Montreal? Sure. Yeah, I think everyone but Montreal. And by the way, you talk about the penguins being suddenly red-hot. Where is their next game again?

Where is it? They are in New York, facing the Rangers at MSG, which I don't know that. I don't know if you're aware is a very famous arena. Most famous on Earth, I'm saying. You talk about. about the almost almost the worst possible team to be showing up for the Rangers where in the mess that they're in right now. Uh,

the suddenly red hot Pittsburgh penguins, but you're right. I feel like every, um, like when we record this podcast because of some, uh, for technical reasons, I use a different computer than I use as my day to day computer.

So every time I open it, it's on the standings from a week ago. Yeah. And I have to refresh it. And it's just like, like every single time I just look at the standing from a week ago and I'm like, oh, well, that has no bearing on what's, going on these days in this

parody infested NHL parity stricken parity yeah what's what other word fistoris yeah it's the disease the disease of parody and Gary Bedman loves it

NHL hit by the woke mind virus baby that's right we would be remiss I think if we didn't if we didn't mention the scene in Calgary last night where you see Columbus comes to town. Obviously, these were Johnny Goodrose, two NHL teams. We knew that it was going to be an emotional night at the start of the season.

It was a night that I think a lot of people had circled on their calendars because, again, Johnny Goodroo's second NHL team coming to the city where he spent, you know, the first 10 years or 11 years of his career and really made a name for himself and really became a star and connected. with the city and, you know, became an icon of that, of that franchise. So we knew that it was going to be an emotional moment. Um, and it was. It delivered. We see his wife, his wife, Meredith, uh, was, was on, was on the ice. We see, we see his father, Guy, who, you know, has, has been present, I, I think in a lot of different capacities over the last few months. Um, just another, another night where, uh, the Godreau family is, you know, supported and, um, you know, know, lifted up by, by, by, by, by, by, by, by, in Calgary, which I think is all you can, all you can

all you can ask for in in the flame, in the flames that are, that are really, really nice job of, of, of, of doing that, of doing that everyone did a, everyone did a great job and, you know, the family lifted up, but also lifting back like the, the, the, the courage that, uh, these guys are shown is, uh, is, has been impressive, uh, all along. So, uh, not much to say on, on, on that scene other than great work by, by, by, by everyone involved and it was an important night and it was ultimately a good night. Yeah, and as long as Johnny and Matthews, family and friends and wives and children are getting the support that they need. I think that's what's most important. And it seemed like that's what happened last night, right? So stimp tap to everybody who was involved, we're going to have more moments like that

throughout the season, honestly, because I think what's clear, you know, it feels like every few weeks something like this pops up where where you're you know where where where we kind of see this and make note of it so it's it's it's not the first time it won't be the last time but it's a but it was a big date on the calendar and I think uh and I think we needed to make mention of it but before we head out of here um Sean we talked about about your piece today already with the you know the Duane the Duane from Buffalo all stars uh do we got anything else coming this week that you would like to, do you would like to tap up?

I believe you and I have a piece that's going, that's going tomorrow that we worked with Max. It's like a little, a little podcast special where we looked at the question of who's, who's the best player by age, at each age, basically. And you guys kind of looked at it from the lens of who's the best right now. I looked at it from the lens of who's the best ever,

just to sort of set that benchmark. Mark, we had some fun with it. I think people will enjoy that, start a few debates. We snubbed your favorite player because we don't watch your team. We're stupid and mean. There's two reasons. There's two reasons that we snubbed your favorite players because we don't watch them or we think they stink. That's it. Yep. That's mainly. And also, we got a little cash under the table from Gary Bettman to make sure that your team was not properly represented. I don't think that check has come from me just yet. So we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, see, it's early in the day. We get the check from the clicks.

Don't you know that? You got to get, it's all about the clicks, baby. Yeah. When did we stop saying clickbait and start saying clicks? When did that become the cool guy with sunglasses and his avatar, uh, way to put down a,

I think it's because they realize that, that's, that smart people who write on the internet for a living muted clickbait on Twitter long, a long time ago. Got us on that one. Okay. Here's the trick,

brother. Mute, mute clickbait and mute the clown emoji. and it makes your online experience 10 times more fun. Four games night. We got Toronto, Nashville, Boston, Chicago, Vegas, Anaheim, Dallas, L.A. That feels like the winner for the evening. Stars Kings.

I think I'll be watching that one later. Enjoy the games. We'll be back next week. Oh, and tune in tomorrow. Because Haley and I, I know I said this earlier, but we're going deep on the Four Nation rosters because those are all getting released today. we're going to bring Dom. We're going to do some kind of ranking, I'm sure.

And then after that, Prospect Series is back on Friday. So enjoy that. And Sean Frank and I will talk to you folks next Wednesday.