The Athletic Hockey Show - Are the Rangers bluffing?

Episode Date: November 27, 2024

With the Rangers in a tailspin, Sean, Frank and Sean debate if the Rangers truly are "open for business" as GM Chris Drury stated, with the Blueshirts boss reportedly dangling Chris Kreider and Jacob Trouba in trade talks. The guys discuss the brutal goaltending in Colorado where the Avs rank 30th in the NHL with 3.77 goals allowed per game and Frankie reviews the inaugural CHL-USA Prospects Challenge.Hosts: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeWith: Frankie CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What up, what up? This is the athletic hockey show Wednesday edition. Coming at you, I was going to say live, but it's taped. Coming at you taped from the fakesh workday of the year in the United States of America. I'm not going to do anything after this. I'm so jealous. I know, man.

That's been the one thing that I've come to realize over the years is like Thanksgiving, weirdly chill for you guys. It's like, yeah, yeah, we'll do it. We'll eat at some point over the week. there's not any kind of like set thing. I feel like this is like five, it's like five days of BS for us. And it's gonna start in 45 minutes for me.

Because we put the holiday on the weekend where it's supposed to be and we don't like schedule it in for a Thursday every single year. That's like some weird English holdover for you guys, I think. Probably.

That's like, that's weird. That's Anglo carryover stuff. We're just more efficient. We're efficient. We're efficient. We're just let's let's bookend this thing onto the weekend. Meanwhile, you guys just throw it in midweek and say, we're actually going to shut it down on Wednesday. And I already know, I already know the routine you got going on today.

Like you are, how do I put this? Like, you're like the Costanzas or the Seinfelds at the retirement community playing shuffleboard and just hanging out. You got like loose clothing on. Like I already know what kind of scene you have happening. I'm wearing my best Adam Sandler shirt to record to record the pot in. You guys are going to, video is going to happen at some point soon. The listeners are either going to be impressed or horrified by the stuff I roll up to records in.

I'm psyched about that. We can't do video. There's no way we can do this podcast with video. Buddy, I got some bad news for you. But that's another conversation. You know, we all started the Thanksgiving break early. This is a Frankie Carado. Calibre Segway.

The New York Rangers. Ooh, nice. They shoved off like five days early. Three straight losses, giving up 40 shots or more in all three of them. Chris Jerry said a couple days ago that they're open for business, which means potentially teams trading for Chris Kreider and Jacob Truba. He's saying, make me offers. What do we think about what's gone on in New York over the last few days

and what do we think is going to come of this last batch of drama? I'm going to come out and say this that I think that is a bluff. I think that is a bluff that you are going to start trading guys like Truba, who makes $8 million, who's not an easily digestible contract for a lot of teams. And Chris Kreider, who I'm sure a ton of teams would want to have, but why wouldn't you want to have him?

Like, he's a very good player. So I think this is just, let's get something out there so these guys can figure it out. Because, like, the one thing about the Rangers is, if you looked at them on paper, and let's say you don't watch them on a regular basis, but you just looked at that team, you're like,

where's the weakness here? Like, could you spot it on paper? If you just pulled up daily face off and looked at their roster, I don't think you can spot it. Like they have a ton of skill. They have like a third line identity line. They got big bodies on the fourth line. They got guys on the back end where if you looked at it and say,

okay, you have a true number one. You got some grit in guys like Truba and Lynn Grin. You got a guy in Kandre, Miller who should be able to log big minutes. Like there's, and then, you know, one of the best goalies in the world, it makes no sense that this team is in a little bit of a tailspin. And it makes no sense that the GM would be out there saying like there's guys available.

But I guess the weaknesses, they're not a good team defensively. Like, and it shows because, you know, goals against right now, they're, they're 10th in the NHL. Like, they're in a really good spot. And then if you go down the list of all the other defensive ranks that would really matter to you. Expected goals, 29th, shots 30th, shot attempts 31st, inner slot shots 28th, and ozone possession time 27.

Teams are having their way with the New York Rangers in the Rangers zone. And that is more just like get guys to buy in to kind of carrying more defensively. Like I don't know what trading Truba or Kreider is going to do for you when teams are playing in your offensive zone all night. it has been such a weird team to watch from the outside because they've been good for years and yet they don't seem to think they're good. Like heading into this offseason, the Rangers are one of those teams where they were like, we got to make changes.

It's just not good enough. And you're like, you guys are just in the conference final. They've been for a couple years now, like the best bad team I've ever seen in just the way that they are perceived, right? Everyone talks about them like they're this team in crisis. And then you would look at the standings and they're in first place and, you know, playing 650 hockey until this week. This is the week where it really feels like they, for the first time, look like a bad team.

And I can't help but notice that seems to, it seems to coincide with the GM kind of playing this, this like you say, Frankie, probably bluff card. can this backfire? What's the dynamic in a room when you have this kind of clear message sending from a GM going through the media, putting specific names out there? Like, is there a, does it work in that sense of guys, we got to, we got to really pull it together? Or are you kind of looking at each other rolling your eyes going, oh, man, here we go. You know what? Like, I think if you have the ladder there, like if that's your attitude where you guys are going to roll

their eyes and say like, yeah, whatever, man, go ahead, do something about it. Then your team's never going to win. Like, you just, you don't have the personalities, um, that would lend itself to, to winning hockey. But if guys kind of, like, if guys were to look at what's actually happening and have some ownership over that and have some accountability and say like, the GM is obviously trying to do something here that is within his control, um, to get us to play better. Like, let's go.

Like, we know we can play better. You don't think, like, you don't think guys like Kandre Miller know, no. like that guy knows he can play better. As a team, there are a lot of smart players. Like I know there are a lot of offensively gifted players, but you know what comes with being offensively gifted, being very intelligent. And I think as a team and, you know, with Laviolet as a coach,

there would be plenty of onus on those guys in responsibility to be better defensively. And that's all it is. Like you're only asking for one thing from the Rangers. You know, so that's why I think like the guys in there configure it out. It's not like, you know, you have this team that it's like a whole, we got to diagnose what the issue is and then it's also multiple things and layers to it. It's literally one thing. Just the team has to be better defensively because your

goaltender is going to give you a chance and you're really good offensively. But I think the guys in the room look at that and say, okay, like, we got a, we got a strap on our boots here and let's figure this out. Like this is, we can't be getting embarrassed like this. This is Jacob Trubon on Tuesday. This is in Arthur Sample's, on the site. Optional practice on Tuesday, they play Carolina tonight, so things aren't going to get any better. But this is true, but, you know, responding to the to the trade report. He says, I'm happy to be here and focus on playing hockey.

I learned from the summer that you've just kind of got to block all that out and focus on playing hockey. It's part of the business. I don't know if it's real or not. My job is to place. So he's in, you know, just trying to do my job mode, right? And I go back to what we heard, if it is a bluff, if that's where we're landing, and it certainly seems like that's a possibility. If it is a bluff or if it isn't, I wonder how much of what we saw over the summer is coming into play

for the way this message is being received. Because Chris Jury pushed the red button once already, right? He says after the playoff loss in the Eastern Conference final to the Panthers, you know, changes are coming like get ready for it. And then it didn't happen. So I go back to that. And then you look at, you know, a similar message that's being dropped, you know, in late November a few months later. I wonder if this is a case of Drury, you know, if this is a motivational tactic.

I wonder if it's a case of him laying it down for a second time too quickly in succession. I think he's got to be careful to a certain degree here because you're right. Like the Truba thing in the summer. and that $8 million, like to make that trade in season, if you couldn't make it during the off season, good luck making that trade in season, especially like with that price tag. You have to think about it this way.

Quinn Hughes doesn't make that much money. And Quinn Hughes has the puck on his stick all night. He's the best defenseman in the NHL in any given night. Him, Kail McCar, Adam Fox, however you want to slice it. But like that's the impact that a guy like that has. And Truba makes more than that guy. That is like absurd to a certain degree.

So good luck moving that contract, especially with the no movement clause that's attached to it. The thing that I think Drury has to be careful of is he pulled a greasy move this summer with Barkley Goodrow. Like that, you know, he vetoed the trade to San Jose. All of a sudden he's on waivers and now he's a San Jose shark. So you fired one bullet where everyone kind of saw right through it. now you're going to fire these bullets. And I still, like, I stand by what I said.

I believe it's a bluff. But to DGB's point, like, you're kind of towing that line right now where you probably have guys that want to buy into everything and turn it around. But because you've fired a few already, it's like guys could turn and say, okay, don't like the way you're doing things now. Don't like that you're throwing names out there. And why does it have to come at our expense publicly? Like that's, and I know, you know, you could look at it either way as an athlete, like, okay, am I just going to go all business here, right? And just, you know, buy in or am I going to roll my eyes? And I still think that's a losing attitude. But like, you have to look at both sides of the coin and say, okay, like, there's been some things that have happened here that that lead me down that path that is not, you know, not good for winning.

It's, it's such a weird situation because we see this in some sense all the time. A team struggle. and you hear the reports, oh, they're open for business. They're willing to listen. Great. What's rare here is that there were specific names attached to it. And it came from, it was Elliot Friedman originally. You know, Elliot's not making stuff up. He's got that on pretty good authority from somewhere that those are the names that are out there.

Don't forget Jacob Truba in the summer, that whole situation, part of the reason that he didn't get traded was he said, I'm not going if you trade me because he had a family situation. who knows what that scenario even looks like right now. What is so different about this is typically in the NHL, if you talk about a team that's got an $8 million defenseman with one year left on his deal, and they're looking to move him, it's a, we will trade this guy, we want picks and prospects because we're rebuilding or we're taking a step back

or we're reloading or whatever it is. Same with the guy like Chris Kreider. the Rangers presumably are not in that mode. They are still trying to win. They still want to win a Stanley Cup this year. And so now it gets into, okay, what does that trade even look like? We're so in this league now, in this era, to just every trade has to be present for future. It's a guy with a name value now for picks and prospects.

And now, I mean, to break out the old cliche, it's like a hockey trade sort of thing. You know, we will give you Crider and Truba and you give us somebody else who's going to plug in and give us a bit of a different look but still help us win. What team is going to make that move? They used to do trades like this all the time. This used to be very common. But these days, you just don't see it because of the cap and because of any number of other factors. Who even is the trading partner here that is also trying to win right now? So they're going to go out and get a 30-year-old defenseman, but is willing to move pieces.

is off the roster. There's not a ton of things. And is also a team that Jacob Trebo would accept the trade to. Or doesn't have the option because he apparently does have, apparently it's a 15 team list. So he can, and I think Ryder's the same. And then who knows if it's one of the teams that's not on the list,

but it means he's got to pick up and move away from the family, who even knows where that goes. And that could get really ugly. Also, like, Mika Zabinajad is a guy who should be discussed, like in these tradable terms. He's got a full no movement class and he makes it and a half million dollars. It's funny. They can put these guys on the on the block if they want,

but it's a wholly different thing for someone else to be like, all right, A, I'm a team that these players would accept trades to, B, I'm a team that wants this player on my team, and C, I'm a team that has the available cap space to pay them. That's a really, really tough ask. And that's what that, more than anything, is what makes me think that whether this is an actual bluff or not, that nothing is actually going to come of it. Because like, Sean, like you said, like, who are the, who are the dance partners? Like, they're tough to find.

So I think that's what, that's what makes it a bluff is just how complex it is to actually pull something like this off. The thing, like, if I was throwing on my tinfoil hat today and saying, like, where could Jacob Truba realistically end up? I would look at the Edmonton Oilers and say, That is a team that is so desperate to have a top four defensemen. And I guess if you looked at it in the past with Edmonton, if you are on the ice a lot with McDavid and Drysidal or Nugent Hopkins and Hyman, you know, we've seen it with with Bouchard, how he gets by sometimes defensively. Vinny Dei D'Aarnay in the past has played top four minutes. Cody C.C. has looked like, you know, when he was there,

he played a lot more good games than bad games. And it's like, okay, you could forget about the $8 million. because we know what the $8 million is. But you could see a situation where Edmonton is desperate enough to have like a bonafide guy, you know, who can do, you know, be physical and munch some minutes. And you've seen it where, you know, guys look better than maybe they actually are in certain ways because of the way the team is designed to have the puck a lot and kind of push the pace offensively. Like that's one that makes sense.

But then you have to ask yourself, okay, it's not Ty Emberson going back. because we've seen he's not a top four guy really. It's not Travis Dermit. Like, okay, who's going back? And that's where, you know, it comes back to what DGB was saying. You know, it is interesting, though, that you bring up Zabana Jed. Because I was calling a Rangers Habs game earlier this year. And the Rangers dummied the Habs, which is not, you know, not groundbreaking news.

That seems to happen to Montreal quite a bit this year. But I was talking to someone that covers the team there on a regular basis. And they said to me, like, Zabanajad and Crider. are very tough to play with. And I know star players can be hard to play with, but it kind of, like, it just, it told me a little something there that, like, it's not easy to just jump in and play with those guys.

It was just like an interesting anecdote that I got that I didn't really, I didn't really think of. I don't know why I didn't think of it, but it just goes to show you, like there's, there's some complexities to maybe playing in that, in that top six up front on that team. It's funny.

You always used to hear that with Crosby, right? Yeah. So tough to play with. And when it's Sydney Crosby is tough to play with, all right, man, we better get to work on finding somebody for Sidney Crosby to play with. When it's when Mika Zabanajet is hard to play with, it kind of makes you go, well, do we really want to build around Mika's Abadad then? Here's my question for the Rangers. It is you were describing the problems, Frankie, where not good defensively. don't seem to have the buy-in, don't seem to have, you know, go on down the list.

So often that is something that we look at. We go, well, it's coaching. And where's the coaching change? And now, granted, we've seen two coaching changes since the last time we talked. And every time there's a coaching change, what do we always say, right? We go, what was the guy supposed to do with that roster? It's the GM who built the roster. The GM's responsible.

The GM should fix the roster before he fires a coach. Well, that seems to be. what Chris Derry is trying to do here. But if he can't, or if it's a bluff, or if it's a semi-bluff where it's kind of like, hey, maybe somebody calls up and gives me a great offer, but otherwise it's not going to happen. Like, does the coaching change become inevitable? For a team that fired Gerard Gallant after two years of 100 plus points and won two playoff rounds and it wasn't good enough, is this a coaching?

Is this our next coaching change? Well, how long? In Will this. He's like that he has the short light, like, isn't he like notorious for being somewhere for like two years and then he's gone. I feel like that's that's that's. The initial has bounced around a ton. I mean, he's had the, it's usually more like four years. I think he's, I think he may even have done six in one of his stops, but he's had a lot of stops.

And, and New York, the timeline seemed to get condensed significantly. So, Jacob Truba, by the way, not for nothing. 5-2 loss of St. Louis on Monday. He was their worst defenseman by a good bit. He's on for, you know, three goals against, and they get out attempted 24 to 10, and he just gets caved in on X goals and, you know, 11th morning chance on and on.

It didn't look like it worked on Monday. Let's put it that way. He missed it. It was a Vegas. It was a Vegas call. The phone rang. You're playing against a team that just fired their coach, and you just get,

I mean, they didn't get smoked because it was a close game until the third period, but they didn't look like a team that had a fire lit under them. The Rangers, the Rangers fall into this category now where it's like, is, are you going to win a Stanley Cup the way you are? Like that's, that's what everything, every conversation is going to come back to. Can you win a Stanley Cup with your goaltending? Yes.

Can you win a Stanley Cup because your team has enough offensively? Yes. Is your team going to be able to withstand playoff series, multiple playoff series against teams like, like, you know, Carolina, then I don't know if it's Washington or New Jersey or and then if you're getting into a situation where you're playing Florida, Toronto, Tampa Bay. And the answer is no defensively. Like your team cannot withstand multiple playoff rounds defensively against what is going to be

thrown at you in the playoffs. And that's like that's where that's where the crux of everything lies with this team. And, you know, it's not that they're going to, they're going to finish in the playoff spot. they're going to, you know, they'll be top third in the metro, maybe. I know it doesn't look great for them right now if you're looking at the standings in the metro, but like everything comes back to can you withstand whatever the playoffs is going to throw at you? And I think in two out of the three, they can.

Just the issue is the one that they can't withstand happens to be very important. And that'll cave them in very early in the playoffs. And the irony of it all is like these young guys, this young core of, contributors like it's there it's finally there it's it just maybe got there a little bit too late because it's been an issue for crider increasingly over the last few years where he's a power play a weapon but you know and they score goals it on on the line with sabanajad but don't necessarily drive play that's bottomed out he's a bad five on five player now like period and same same to some extent goes for sabanad we talked about truba there's problems there paneran is is the one guy from

the old guard that you look at and you're like, this is still a high-end player. But if you look at their scoring list, man, it's, it's Will Cooley with 17 points. It's Lafranier's back up there again. Sean, I can't believe we're saying this. Capo Caco, 12, 5 on 12 points in 20 games. Like they have younger dudes that are,

that are finally starting to take over the mantle. And it's happened. It seems like as the old guys have either hit the skids or have other issues or whatever's going on. the timing hasn't worked there. And I think that has to be the fear. Capo caco has turned into, like, he is what he is as a player now.

And I don't mean that in a bad way. Like, he's really found his niche of what he's going to be as a player. And, you know, I was watching the Rangers play. I can't remember who it was. It may have been Vancouver. And someone was trying to move caco in front of the net. And it was like, good luck. Like, you were not moving this guy.

Like, he's found what is going to make him. an effective player. And I think that third line, when it was constructed as Cooley, Heidel, and Caco, one of the best third lines, one of the best lines in the NHL. And I think that's what would frustrate you even more if you're a Rangers fan or if you're a Chris Jury. You're like, not only do I have the skill up front, I have this like third line identity line that does not get scored against at five on five.

That completely crushes all their minutes. But I have a team that is so leaking. and so bad defensively. Like, give me a break. Like, as soon as I got one thing to go my way here that maybe, I'm not going to say that it wasn't that way in the past, but like you really found something here. And then the defensive, you know, acumen of the team fall so far behind. You're like, something's got to give.

Like, that would be so frustrating because you have, you have something in that third line and those guys that are doing a really nice job. got the best goalie in the league or number two who needs a new contract you got our temi panarin will need an extension after this year one year left on his deal got a top five defenseman and adam fox at least among the younger guys like the pieces are all there there's you know we we've just spent 20 minutes talking doom and gloom on a team that i feel like 24 other teams in the league would happily switch places with. But they're right there.

They're knocking on the door, but they can't get across the threshold. And it feels like, usually, I mean, hell, I'm a Leafs fan. I'm used to teams in this situation going, it's going to be fine. It'll happen eventually. Don't worry about it. And it feels like Chris Dury and the Rangers, it's the exact opposite. They're looking at this and saying, we see something that makes us think it's not going to happen and we're not going to just sit around and twiddle or thumbs and run it back for five years

to be proven right. We're going to make a move now or or they're not and it's a bluff and they're just going to say they're going to do it and see what kind of reaction that gets, which so far has not working. Well, there's cautionary tales, right? Like at some point, the cycle, like, it comes and goes. And, like, you know, we've talked about this a lot, but you've seen Chicago, you've seen Pittsburgh now. like at some point Boston, the cycle's coming for them.

I think the biggest fear if you're the Rangers is that let's not have the cycle begin and end and not have something to show for it at the end of it all and just say, well, we got to, you know, we got to play the Panthers or, you know, we lost to the devils and that was it. And it's like, great, now you're starting all over again and you didn't get, you didn't get the big price after it all. we got a team out West that's like a kind of a weirdo version of the Rangers because they've won a cup, they don't have the best goaltender in the league,

and they're going to be the ones that we focus on in the next segment. So come back. We'll hit you with some ads and then talk to you shortly. All right, from one disappointing team to another, let's say, fellas Colorado Avalanche lose the Tampa Bay a couple days ago, 8-2. And we got the full poo-poo platter of the Aves' goaltending experience where Usses and Noon comes in, starts, gets pulled. They bring in Georgiev equally bad.

Not a lot of secondary scoring either. I think that's like the Aves problems kind of writ large, where they have unreliable goal pending and, you know, you can't rely on Nathan McKinnon and Kulmikar and Miko Renton to dig you out every time. Like, are we at a crisis point for the Aves? Like, how much longer can we say, yeah, like, Georgie has figured it out before and da-da-da-da-da-da. Like, does something need to happen here? And if so, like, how quickly?

Normally, normally I would be the more cautious in this situation and say, okay, you don't want to just spend assets to make a lateral move. The problem is, there's no lateral move to be made for the Colorado Avalanche and how bad their goaltending is. So many other goaltenders would be an upgrade. How significant like that varies, but there is a lot of upgrades to be had for Colorado and Net. And I would say this. We just talked about the Rangers and how everything comes back to the playoffs. Can you win in the playoffs?

The Colorado Avalanche cannot and will not win in the playoffs with the goaltending that they currently have. So they have to do something. And if you want a spicy hot take from me, And I don't even know if it's spicy or hot, but I think the goaltender that will play for Colorado for the rest of the year at some point is currently playing in California somewhere.

That's my, like, is it McKinsey Blackwood who's had a good year in San Jose? Like that is not a lateral move. That would be an upgrade over who they have, considering how Blackwood is playing this year. And I see DGB just rolling his eyes and the other one. Oh, that is not good. When McKenzie Blackwood is an unquestion.

to upgrade. And I'm not saying you're wrong, but man, you just put the problem in very stark terms. Here's the other one. Here's John Gibson, who has struggled the last couple of years, I will give you that. But when he was healthy and, like, and he's played well this year, that would be the swing that I would take if I'm Colorado. I would find a way to pluck the backup goalie in Anaheim right now, John Gibson and bring him in and see if I get the, you know, pre-pandemic John Gibson or even the guy that we've seen this year who's got pretty good numbers because that is the big swing that if it works out is a significant, significant upgrade over who you have. Is that spicy enough? Let's talk about McKenzie Blackwood first because I think we need to, I think we need to remind,

we need to say this specifically. He's been good. I think, I think we need to make that. point because people are going to hear that name devil's fans potentially and their eyes are going to roll out of their head but but well except you dropped a 44 safe shutout on them a couple nights ago i guess yeah i guess they are listening to this gentilly you remember people in san ozay are listening to us they know that blackwood's been playing well he's he's a big reason that that team look man that team has a higher points percentage than the pittsburg penguins right now so i'm like not about the dump on on anything that's going on with San Jose. They've been better than expected.

A lot of it has to do with the goal tending. Blackwood's up around 906, 907, save percentage. He's plus and goals saved above expected. He's been good. The other funny thing about him, and I heard someone frame it this way, and this speaks so poorly to Canada's goaltending situation overall. McKenzie Blackwood, potential four-nation, I keep on calling it four-nation frenzy.

I know it's not what it is. four nation faceoff goal tenor for team canna maybe he goes there figures out what it's like to play in front of a better team and voila he's he's ready to roll for the colorado avalanche i don't know i like it just made me sad in so many different that's what i was trying to do maybe the leaves could trade for him if and when stolars gets hurt you know don't say that don't don't don't start bringing us back to the leaps they're both going to hurt at some point leaps have a very good goal-tending situation right now. We don't need to touch that.

Oh, sure they do right now. But okay. I love the John Gibson. I do. And here's the thing. I'm, you can see my emotional struggles here, as you guys are watching me.

Because what I want to say is when, you know, when Frankie says, you know, maybe John Gibson goes back to his pre-pandemic with, that was five years ago, man. Like, what are we talking about five years ago? But as soon as I say that, I'm starting to twitch because I can feel Jesse Granger appearing over my shoulder. Because we've had this argument so many times. I keep saying, Jesse, he hasn't been good in.

And then every year I add, you know, one to the number. And Jesse always tells me, he says, when you watch him, he looks great, put him behind a good team. And he would be the old John Gibson, you know, he'd be fantastic again. I agree. I agree. He's worn down by playing behind a terrible defensive team for years and years and years. I mean, it'd be a hell of a gamble for the for the avalanche to find out. Because if you find it, you know, the only good thing you can say about Georgia right now is he's got one year left on his deal.

That's such a bad way to say. The only good thing is he's got one year left. You're not stuck with him for years and years and years and how do we get out of this contract? You get out of the contract in the summer. So John Gibson, you're locked in for another couple years now, if it turns out, at a higher number, if it turns out to be a mistake. And he shows up and goes, oh, yeah, by the way, I haven't been good in five years because I'm not good. Here's, here's how I would describe John Gibson's, I don't know, until, like, when did Anaheim start their kind of rebuild? Like the, I don't know, you want to call it five years, let's say four or five years.

Is that fair to say? It depends on whether you say it started before, before her beak or not. But yeah, we'll say, we'll say three and a half. half years. Here's how I would describe John Gibson and what he's had to go through the last, you know, call it four or five years. He's a boxer. He's in the ring and you just keep getting punched and punched and punched, but he never really goes down and out for the count. And there he is. And he's back there and you're like, why does this guy keep coming back here to take this beating? That's how I would describe what he has had to go through playing for the Anaheim Ducks the

last four or five years. So put him in a situation where he's got like, no doubt, a very potent offensive team, but like analytically kind of darling team as far as how they control play and the shot share and all that kind of stuff, I think there's a very good chance if you're taking a swing on John Gibson. If he's healthy, he is going to deliver for that team. He's just, he's not in the ring taking those punches anymore. It's a short flight from Denver back to L.A. too. He can get from, he can get from Denver to Manhattan Beach relatively quickly if that's

if that's a concern for John. We should say specifically about the ads. Because every time we talk about them, it comes back to cap space and where's the money going to come from and the kind of outstanding question that they have with Gabriel Landiscaug, that would be coincidental, could not be. We saw from Pierre a couple days ago that there's still not really any timetable on Gabriel Andeskog and when he's going to return and if he's going to return. And if that is still in flux, you know, that's bad news for Gabriel Landiscag and it's bad news.

for the abs overall. But if nothing else, it gives them the wiggle room necessary to add, you know, oh, I don't know, a goaltender who makes 6.5 against the cap. And if you get the team that's trading them to retain a little bit. And like, guess who that is? The ducks and John Gibson. So he fits a lot better now. You're adding $3 million over what you have.

But again, it's for two more years after this one. So if you're wrong, you're screwed. You're you're dealing with the team with Anaheim where, I mean, they are not in a situation where they have to move the guy, even though you're right. He's pretty much the backup there. They're okay cap-wise. So they're not going to move them just to move them, just to get them out of there. This is a guy who spent his whole career there. They're going to want to get some assets back.

So you're giving up something to get. You're committing to that contract. And John Gibson's last good season was 2018-19. Guys, we're in year six of John Gibson being a very average at best NHL goaltender. I see the argument and I get it. Jesse's my goalie whisper. I will trust him on a goaltender over what the numbers say because he sees things

that I don't see. And he loves John Gibson, but man, what a risk that is to take. It's the swing, right? You're taking the swing at that point because. Nothing is a bigger risk. We, exactly. Well, doing nothing, you know what you're getting and you're not going anywhere. But we know, like, there's varying degrees of an improvement that you will get,

depending on which goaltender you try and acquire. Like, I played with James Reimer. Love, like, you go get James Reimer. That's an upgrade over what Giori Giv is giving you right now. But does that answer your question, can you win a Stanley Cup? You know, like, so I think that's, if that's what you're trying to do, you take the big swing. You try and hit the upside on the big swing and say,

we're going to bring in a guy that has the tools, can do it. He just has been so beat down by playing in Anaheim. Let's see if he can do it. But if I'm Anaheim, like look at it from their point. Have you said they don't have to move him? What a waste it is having a guy as your backup who's making that much money, who's that good of a goalie, and not trying to cash in on it when maybe you can, you know,

strike when there might be a little desperation coming out of Colorado. Like wouldn't there, wouldn't you look at it that way and say like, let's try and cash in here when and strike while the iron's hot? Especially when cap space. That means you get something. I guess that's what I'm saying, right? There's, there's guys other situations where you might look and say, man, that guy's making X dollars against the cap.

His team would be happy to get out of it. Colorado needs an upgrade. Hey, there's a fit here. Here's a fifth round pick and we'll take the contract off your hands and it all goes forward. And I just don't see that necessarily for Anaheim, given the situation, given how well it's working right now, you never know what the dynamic is between two goalies, but maybe having the veteran backup is what's helping them get the starting that they're getting up. Maybe you don't want to see happen to Lucas Tustall what you saw happen in John Gibson, which is just getting broken down by playing behind a crap team for 55 games a year.

I don't know. But I look at it and I just say, you know, I see a team that doesn't care about cap space, which is the ducks. And that's not going to be a concern for them for the next couple years. And you see a team where that's a major issue, do some, do some retention, sweeten the pot. It doesn't need to be. Here's a fourth round, fifth round pick. If you're in a time, you're like, give us, give us something.

Give us something worthwhile. And when we'll eat, we'll turn that $6.5 million cap it for the next two years into a $3.75 million cap it. And that works for both sides. Because if you're Colorado, it's a whole hell of a lot easier to take John Gibson, who will say is like a fringe starting goaltender right now. Like an average, he's the 19th best goalie in the league. I don't think that's crazy to say. And we pay a market rate basically. And yeah, it's going to cost us a second round pick or something like.

that. But hey, we'll, we'll take it because this is the window. Like, and that's what, that's what I always come back to for, for teams. Like, it's, there will never be a better time for the Colorado Avalanche to win than right now. And I don't care that their depth isn't what it, isn't what it should be. And I don't care that they have players injured. They have Nathan McKinnon who's playing at an MVP level. They have Kilmokar who's playing at a Norris level. They have Miko Ranton in high end pieces everywhere else.

like take the swing, recognize that this is the time. Don't let yourself get penned in and screwed over by an obvious weakness. We've seen that happen way, way, way too many times. And it comes back, like it always does with me to the Jim Rutherford Penguins,

but whatever. The nicest thing you could ever say about Jim is that he tried. He always, always, always tried. And there's something to be said for that. Like there's honor in the attempt, and there's honor in recognizing the gift. that you've been given when you have two franchise players at the top of stuff. So I don't like go

get Gibson, go get Mac Blackwood and cross your fingers and hope it works out, but do something because it's very clear that they're about to get submarine by by a by a position that's, it's very, very fixable. That's it's extremely well said. And for like for John Gibson specifically, there's nothing like being a player and all of a sudden having this newfound purpose. You know, like you've been in this situation in Anaheim where like well documented team has not been going anywhere. But now you're taking a flight and you're going to Colorado and you walk in the room. The first guy that shakes your hand is Nathan McKinnon. He said, let's go.

We got a Stanley Cup to win here. And you're talking to Kail McCar. You're talking all these guys, you know, rant in. It's like, hey, we got, we're on a mission here to win a Stanley Cup and you're in this with us. And, you know, like Josh Manson is there a guy he would have played with in Anaheim. Like, I just think, you know, you can talk about how the game. hasn't been there for the last few years, and that's, you know, that's factual. But you walk in that room and you feel that energy and you feel that vibe and you start shaking the hands and you're

talking to guys about what they're trying to accomplish. That purpose, like, there's nothing that's going to get your juices going as a player more than that. Like that, that is all the motivation you need to find your game. And I think, like, for Gibson, it's, you know, I don't know if it's finding the game. I think it's more staying healthy than more than anything and being in a better situation, but that's, that's as good of a situation as you can ask for. And if you can't find it there, you're not going to find it anywhere. John Gibson to the avalanche, Jacob Turbara to the Oilers. Oh, man.

I think we're solving all the, all the league's problems today with our hot. Fantastic. Please let us know which other teams you would like GM, Frankie Corrado, to, uh, to match up. That's what I said today. I said, I am just going to bring some takes and some tinfoil hat situation. and see how the boys feel about it. We want some clear-eyed analysis from you here, though, because I know CHL seasons.

Yeah. Let's hit on that real quick, because this is a big part of your gig, you know, for the next chunk, right? Well, we had the CHL top prospects, the first game last night, which is, you know, different than how they've done it in the past. In the past, it was CHL players playing against CHL players.

They play the one game. Everyone comes to town. But it's like how much stock, can everyone put into that one game where, you know, everyone's flying in, it's quick in and out, there's all these things to do. The scouts watch these guys play 40, 50 times anyways, right? So like the one game, it feels like it got outdated,

but now they're playing a two game series against the U.S. national team development program, the under 18s. I think this is, you know, there's a little more skin in the game, having your, you know, your country pride, league pride, whatever on the line. And the CHL team, like, they're really strong.

They have 15 A rated skaters, so meaning, you know, first round potential. The U.S. team only had two, but the U.S. team has played together for the last year and a half. So what was going to win out, like the continuity, the chemistry, or the talent. I can tell you, always bet on talent because the talent did win out in a big way last night, 6-1. And like Porter Martone, really good player, like Shades of Matthew Kachuk. I'm glad you brought him up because he's a guy who he was at the time. top of Pranman's last big board. And, you know, we've heard about, we've heard about Hagen's for how, for however long.

Yeah. Sure. Mm, okay. Shades of Matthew Kachuk. That's interesting. Porter at Martone, shades of Matthew Kachuk, like big, skilled, physical, little bit of mean, you know, streak to him. Matthew Schaefer is going to be the first defenseman picked.

I think there's, there's a chance he could be the first overall pick, too. Like, he's, he's that good. Like, just to show you what kind of a gamer this guy is. Um, he had a goal. end-to-end rush. Beautiful, like deceptive, end-to-end rush. He had a nice assist,

but then at one point in the second period, he had a sequence where he lost a stick, then he lost his glove, then he went out and blocked a shot with his bare hand just kind of hang in there. Then he lost his skate. Then he lost his hand. And I'm like,

in one game, you saw the speed, the skill, and like the grit of this guy just being an absolute gamer. And Michael Mesa, like I think has just matured so much in his game. And like,

I think there's a very realistic conversation around four guys battling for first overall this year. Misa, Martone, Higgins, and Schaefer. And that is wild because we usually get like the one on one or just the one guy clear straight away first overall.

Like this is going to be an interesting, uh, year of prospects to track because those are four really, really good players kind of jumbled together at the top. I'll just throw this out there. If there are legitimately three or four guys, who feel like legit first overall picks

keep an eye on that tank battle because the way the lottery works you can only drop down a couple of spots so if there's if there's one elite guy then sometimes you go all right there's there's maybe we don't bother for the 20% chance but there's three guys interesting you could do it

Frankie and I know I got a split bud so we'll catch up to you next week thanks as always brother okay boys thank you All right, Frankie's gone. Sean, that's the fastest we've ever seen, Emily of actually. He needed to get the hell out. Yeah, he bolted.

He absolutely was gone. Good first step quickness. I can, you can take the athlete out of the game, but... That's what I've always said about him. What have we learned this week, my friend? What have we learned, Sean? Yesterday, I learned that it was the 107th anniversary of the NHL's debut games. and the part that amuses me here is it is very clear to me that the NHL also learned that yesterday

because God bless them, they tried to sell it. I saw a, uh, the, the way that I learned this is I saw a tweet from the NHL's PR department, uh, saying that they were celebrating the 107th anniversary with a pair of historic cities, Boston and Montreal hosting games. Those were the only two games. Can you imagine what was the list of like the the panicked list of like what could we, how could we say we're celebrating this? Like what were the. There's only two games.

And yeah, oh yeah, it's Boston and Montreal. And you're like, oh, that does sound. They really did mix in the history. Who is Montreal playing? That would be Utah in a classic. A storied hockey market. If ever there was one. I'm surprised they didn't go with the oldest team against the newest team to celebrate the.

But anyways, what clearly happened here is, I mean, it's the 107th anniversary. They did a big thing for the 100th, you know, back back then. But it's 107th. It's not that big a deal. But it just, it had the same energy of anyone who's ever forgotten a birthday for an anniversary. And like, you walk in and you're like, no, I didn't forget. What do you? I have this candy bar in my pocket.

This is for you. I got that for you. I didn't forget. I definitely am not just learning this information right now. um same job by the end of buying my mom's christmas present in like an airport the gas station and an an an airport an airport brook stone in 2009 which is it which is a which is a which is a thing that happened there you go you know what you know what the league should have done they should have put

together a list of the 107 best players of all time and left the gany malking off it that would have been good and you could have it like with uh with only like a few active players because you definitely don't want to market your current generation but also like a bunch of Blackhawksers. Like Tyler Bertuzi is is on there in summary for some reason. Was that not, not Kyle not Kyle Davidson making the list. If if if produce yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What I learned a couple of days ago, we had a big planning meeting for stuff we've got planned coverage. We've got planned for the four nations face off. And I got the name correct on first pass for the first time. Uh, because I think I care about this a little more now. I've been

completely dismissive of this best on best tournament, which has taken place in February sometime, Feb 12 through Feb 20. And I don't want to oversell this because I think it's still kind of weak. I still think it feels like, you know, a prep tournament for the Olympics in 2026, but I am no longer completely ignoring it. I'm kind of,

I'm kind of juiced for it, if only because this is the first time we've gotten it in a few years. And I think there's going to be a chance for some interesting storyline and at least some interesting work selfishly to come out of this tournament. I think maybe that's what it is. I'm like, all right, we could do some, we could do some fun things and some fun stories surrounding this. And I think that was the push that I needed to get to like, oh, right, I'll give, this is like

a three out of 10 event instead of a 0.5. I was completely out and smug and dismissive of it. And now I'm like, all right, this is, this is going to be. worth people's time and I was not there until a few days ago. That's what did it for you, not the fact that Canada is talking about McKenzie Blackwood as a potential starter. Yes, that's it. That's why I brought it up.

That's why I brought that up in the first, in the second segment. Yeah, it's amazing. I, you know what? I have always been on board with this tournament. Not as an Olympic equivalent. I don't think anyone is. But as a guy who I love the Canada Cup. growing up, which then became the World Cup.

I thought it was fantastic. In fact, you know, we didn't have the Olympics back then, but I loved the fact that it was this best-on-best tournament that was basically played NHL rules. And back then, remember the U.S.-Canada game where there was a line brawl in a best-on-bed? Like, it was cool as hell. I used to really like that tournament.

And this is basically the Canada Cup, minus Russia for reasons that are outside everyone's control. And, you know, I like it. I'm looking forward to it. I've found some, I found some place my heart for this one. It's not, it's not, this isn't just a, this, to me, this isn't only just a pale limitation of Olympic hockey. This is like the cocktail hour before the wedding reception. Let's, let's, let's put it in those terms.

Or it's like, it's not, it's maybe not the main event, but it still can be a pretty, a pretty fun time. And I think we're going to learn a lot about. Open bar or is it? Of course there's an open. What kind of wedding are you going to, brother? Oh, okay. Then I was. Sounds like better than the three out of ten for me.

I don't know. I'm really on board. It better be an open bar if McKenzie Blackwood is in the conversation for Team Canada. Let's get out. Who is Sean McIndo do as team Canada's starting goaltender here on November 27th for a tournament that's going to happen in six? I don't think Sam Montenboe is going to be the guy. I was told you what's actually good. Wait a second.

there was that it's it's going to be going to be a situation let's just say aiden hill you ready you ready for the aiden hill you're ready for the aiden hill experience going to put the is is going to plant the flag he's going to be our guy backup goalie is going to be carry price he's coming back he doesn't know it yet but we'll give him about two weeks notice to work in a few sit-ups sure that's all he needs yeah and and then anthony stall ours we're just going to sneak him in and hope no I love it. Sounds like a plan.

Are you working the rest of the week, or are you ready to, ready to shove off like me? I'm quote unquote working, but I got to tell you, man, I went through all of, most of last week thinking it was U.S. Thanksgiving and planning my schedule to get the Thursday afternoon off to watch football. And it wasn't until, and this is so sad, I checked my fantasy football team. I was like, why don't I have anyone going on Thursday? and then I was like, oh, because it's not Thanksgiving yet. I have it on authority that that fantasy football team is in fact pretty good. Well, there's that one. That's the fake one.

That's honestly, that's the one I don't even pay attention to. You want to know how I'm doing on the one that I do pay attention to poorly? How about one, 10, and one? We love it. We love it. Oh, it's the worst team I've ever had into any fantasy sports. And I'm still furiously like holding it. out hope I could make the consolation round

and it's it's so sad. You got to turn your attention to the Canadian media league which I'm, like I said, I've been, it's a league I've been shut out of. Am I better about it? No. Just had a six game, just had a six game streak broken. I could use an assistant GM.

We could go oops, all Sean. Let's go. Let's go, baby. I don't know why? Because my work schedule's clear for the next couple days. I'm not doing anything. Now, you're not traveling though, right? No. Okay, you don't have to go and, all right.

So you're traveling. I'm traveling to the suburbs to go to my aunt's house. That's it. All right. That's okay. Not crossing any borders, thank God. All right, dude. Have a good couple days. You folks have a good couple of days, especially our American audience, as we said. Fakesh work day of the year. Everyone make good decisions tonight if you're heading to bars and stuff because that always needs to be said. It's a good night for hockey. 15 games tonight. Very busy Thanksgiving Eve. settle in, watch some of that.

Prepare yourself for hopefully four days of doing nothing. And we'll be back next week. Boltman and Lazarus have the next show overall, which is on Monday. So again, we are taking the holiday off. We're going to enjoy it. Hope you folks enjoy it. The Wednesday boys will be back indeed next Wednesday. Happy Thanksgiving.

I'm done.