The Athletic Hockey Show - Auston Matthews has Hart, Colorado Avalanche goalie controversy and Peter Deboer joins Dallas Stars

Episode Date: June 22, 2022

Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports, and Jesse Granger and Sara Civian from the Athletic recap the major awards in the NHL handed out on Tuesday night in Tampa Bay. The roundtable discusses Auston Matthews winning the Hart and Ted Lindsay, Igor Shesterkin taking home his first Vezina, Cale Makar capturing the first of what projects to be many Norris Trophies and Detroit's Moritz Seider winning the Calder Trophy as the NHL's rookie of the year.We discuss Paul Maurice being named the head coach of the President's Trophy winning Florida Panthers, replacing interim head coach Andrew BrunetteWe preview game four of the Stanley Cup final between Colorado and Tampa Bay and ask is there a goalie controversy in Colorado?The roundtable welcomes Saad Yousef who discusses the Dallas Stars hiring of Peter Deboer and how the lone Star hockey team will always be in win now mode with GM Jim Nill running the show.Plus we go rapid fire on John Tortorella in Philadelphia, Ethan Bear's future with the Caners and the Shea Weber salary dump in Vegas. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What's going on eye, guys? Welcome to another roundtable edition of the athletic hockey show. I am Rob Beasel from CBC Sports. We were off last week. Good to be back with Jesse Granger, who is joining us as always in Vegas. How are you, Jesse? I'm good. How are you, Rob?

I'm doing good. It's Sarah Sivian, who I'm catching mid-yawn. I'm going to tell everybody you were just yawning right there. How are you, Sarah, after your week off? Oh, yeah, drink that coffee. I got my athletic mug. I'm ready to go. Don't worry.

I'm waking up. That's a good time. Start your coffee right at the beginning. So at the end of the show, when we do rapid fire, she's literally bouncing off the walls. A lot to go through, guys. Obviously, there's a pretty big series going on in hockey right now, the Stanley Cup finals, which, of course, we are going to talk about.

But we want to get some stuff before that as well. We've got the NHL Awards. Looks like Paul Maurice has landed behind the bench of an NHL team once again. We're going to speak to Saad Yusuf about the Dallas Stars, who, of course, have their new coaching carousel. has been crazy this year. We'll talk about that, but we had the NHL awards kind of ceremony last night. I put that in quotation marks because, you know, we've been doing the whole Zoom thing for

so long and it was kind of weird to see people all in one room. Let's get some reaction from you guys because you guys are both involved in voting. You guys, we talk about awards all the time. Somebody gets off to a good start in October. We're already like, oh, is this guy going to win the Vezna Trophy? But let's start with the big one. Heart trophy and Ted Lindsay both going to the one and only Austin Matthews first leaf in 67 years to win the heart trophy. That number 67 comes up a lot when you're talking about the Toronto Maple Leaf.

So just realize that right now. But it's hard to argue with 60 goals. I know you guys both vote for the heart trophy. I don't know if you mind telling us who you voted for. But Jesse will start with you. Did you have him as your number one, your first place vote? Yes, I did. I had Austin Matthews, number one, on my heart ballot.

It was an interesting year because I thought when I was going through the ballot, when I was filling it out, I thought, man, these are some really tough choices, tougher than maybe in years prior. And then it ended up, I think every award I ended up voting number one, the guy who ended up winning it was at top my ballot. I thought Matthews absolutely deserved it. To me, it came down to Matthews and McDavid. And I felt like their games were both so incredible. And for me, it was just the 60 goals, the goal number to me. was the deciding factor that I ended up going with Matthews. Sarah, what did you do? For me, it wasn't even a question that it was Igor Shisterkin. I thought, I took the definition to heart.

It's like the Constitution when it's like, are you taking this literally? Are you taking this figuratively? But I took it as literally as possible. I know some people, like, there's different interpretations, but most valuable player to his team had to be Igor. And it's not McDavid or Matthews' fault that they have other good players on their team. But I really felt like Igor kept the Rangers in contention and brought them to the

playoffs. And then it doesn't matter about the playoffs in these awards. But I thought he obviously showed his regular season strength in the playoffs too. I just felt like I know it's controversial to pick a goalie, but he was the MVP of his team. Is it controversial? I mean, I've, I've never bought into the hole. Well, they have their own award, so let's leave this to everybody else. To me, if they are the most valuable. That being said, if I had a vote, I would have voted for Matthews. But that being said, I think if they are the most valuable to their team,

they're the most viable to your team. But I think Sarah hit the nail on the head here. We are still, after a billion years of giving out this award, murky on what it is. Some people are voting for the person who had the best year, who is the most valuable player in the league. And other people are saying it's the most valuable to the team. you know, what's etched onto the actual trophy.

I mean, are we ever going to get this right? Well, it depends on what you mean by right. I mean, like, are we getting it wrong? I kind of like that it's not too. No, but I don't you think, sure, but don't you think that this is exactly what ends up happening year after year where people look at the heart trophies, the MVP, but it's not. It's like Sarah said, if you took Igor Shosturkin away from the New York Rangers, are they even a playoff team?

No, well, for sure not. they're for sure not a playoff team. So by that definition, he should have run away with this award. Okay, but you could say that about like, you're talking to the goalie here. So like, to me, you could say that, you could say that about 15 goalies that. Then no one, if the, if the definition of the award is whose team suffers the most if we take them off the ice, then I honestly think there should never be a non-goly to ever win the award again. the top 15 vote getters should just be the 15 best goalies in the league because they make more of a difference than a skater does because a skater can only play 20 minutes a night. He's only out there for 20 minutes a night.

It's to me, I don't know. I'm voting on it as who's having the best season, I guess, because if you vote on it with the mindset of who hurts their team the most if we take them off, which of these teams. Okay, Connor Hella Buck didn't even have that good of a season. he was probably more, it would probably hurt the Jets more if you took him off the team than Austin Matthews off of the Leafs. Yeah, I kind of like that argument. And I think you were starting to say that you like that there's debate about things like this.

And I agree with you. I do think there could be two trophies that are either of these things that we talk about. But I do think the debate's really interesting. And I don't know, I hate when I put my picks out there on Twitter and people are like, oh my God. Like, how could you? Like, you're an idiot or whatever.

I mean, whatever. You're entitled to your own opinion, but you can't act like there wasn't controversy in a few of these. Like, especially the Norris, I thought. It was like both answers would be right. So it's like no one's stupid for having a different opinion on this. I don't think. I can respect others' opinions, but I still think Igor should have won. The Hart Trophy was tough.

Yeah. It was tough. But it didn't look that way. 129 first place votes for Austin Matthews. And it just kind of goes to show that people think goals are the most valuable in the National Hockey League, right? Yeah, but I also think that a consensus vote doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't close because I think a lot of people probably like I had Matthews one, McDavid, two, Chastarkin three. And I think like I could have chosen any of the three. I chose Matthews.

It was super close for me. How many of the 120 whatever people that voted for Matthews first were feeling the same way as me? And they were like, man, this is a toss up. I can't. It's like we do the athletic picks. by the way, which I'm leading with a couple games to go. I have the best pick record. No big deal.

Throw that in there. Throw that in there. Sean McIndoo is trying to chase me down. He's just picking the opposite of whoever I pick in the cup final trying to catch up to me. But anyways, the fans get so mad in those when it'll be like there will be six of us making the picks and it'll be five one. And the fans are like, oh, they think it's going to be a blowout. And it's like, no, we don't. Just five of the six gave the slight edge to this team.

So then you see five to one picks and you think, oh, they think it's going to be a runaway. That's not that. And I think that could be the case here with heart. I think there were a lot of people that were debating between Matthews, McDavid and Chasturkin. And a lot of them just gave the slight edge to Matthews. I saw somebody bring up on Twitter yesterday and I completely forget who it is. So I apologize that they felt this was a little bit of voter fatigue. Is this a matter of we know McDavid is good?

We know, but let's perhaps give it to the 60 goalman. I don't buy into that. I think it has happened in the past, but I don't buy into the whole voter fatigue thing. The takes. What are you talking about? Yeah, exactly. Voter fatigue. That would be the most hockey media thing in the world if we all got voter fatigue and we're too tired to do the votes.

Come on. No, no, no. I don't mean too tired to do the votes. I'm saying tired of praising one player and you want someone else to win the award. That's what I mean by voting. That, you know, how many times can. we praise Connor McDavid, let's give someone else the spotlight. They're too tired to fill out the votes.

That's a whole other kind of fit. Drink your coffee while I ask about the Norris. About the Norris trophy. Yeah. Man, Cal McCar wins this thing. But you talk about a close vote. Roman Yose got more first place votes than Cala McCar. 98 to 92, but McCar had 98 second place votes winning by the slightest of margins.

you guys do vote for the Norris. Who'd you guys have on your ballot? Sarah will start with you. I had Yossi won Macar too, and this was my hardest one, because I think Macar is the best of the best, but I think Yossi had the best season. Like he had the better season all things considered to me and how he, I don't know.

I just thought in a vacuum he deserves it. It's kind of funny that he did get the most first place votes but didn't end up winning. Like how do you feel about that? if you're McCar and you won, but you didn't get the most first place votes. It is. It's a little bit of an awkward vote, I guess. I don't know.

I had McCar won, Yosie, 2, Charlie McAvoy, 3, Victor Hedman, 4, and Slavin. Jacob Slavin, 5 on mine. But like Sarah, to me, Macar Yosey was probably the toughest decision of the entire ballot. I wrestled over that decision for the longest. I had already had my entire ballot filled out, and I had McAvoy-Hedman and Slaven, like, filled in. And I just had those two spots. And I was just pouring over the analytics and watching. Like, I don't know.

I looked at so much stuff. I think, to me, I think they were so close. I could not distinguish which of the two had a better season. And to me, Kel McCar does things other humans can't. So I voted for him. That's fair. Yeah. It was the numbers.

And I'm not saying that Kel McCar's numbers were not impressive, but you look at Roman Yose's numbers. and then you look at just what Kaila Makar does controlling a hockey game, and that was kind of the difference, right? I mean, if we were sitting here talking about Roman Yossi is the Norse Trophy winner, nobody's saying it's wrong in any way shape, but this was super, super close. The next award was not super, super, super close. The Vesna Trophy, Igor Shasturkin, the only lock of the night, let's face it.

But my question, and as soon as the award gets, you know, announced, we get those fun press releases from the NHL talking about the voting breakdown. It wasn't unanimous. There were three people who decided that Igor Shisterkin was not the best goalie in the NHL this year. Frederick Anderson got a vote. Andrea Veselowski got a vote. Ilya Shorokin got a vote. GM's vote on this thing.

Were they watching the same Igor Shostirkin that I was this year? Because this, I thought, was as close to being a unanimous choice that I could possibly think of. Jesse. Yeah, I wish they would show who voted for who like they do for HWA. Our votes, all the ballots that we put in are made public. So I think it'd be interesting to see which GMs. I think it'd be interesting to see if it's just the GM of those teams are like, my goalie was the best.

Boom. Like maybe that is the case. And like the way hockey culture is like team first and like we always support our guys. When we do our athletic poll, we always had to ask, like, if you had to have one goalie in game seven of the cup final, who would it be? We had to add on to the end of it. It can't be your goalie because otherwise every single player in the league is going to be like, that guy standing in the corner, even if he sucks. So, like, maybe the GMs are just voting for their goalie. I don't know.

I wish we could see who voted for them. Okay, throwback a little story before I get into that. When we were doing that poll, I asked one of the hurricanes who you want in net for game seven, and it can't be your goalie. and they said Justin Williams. So there you go. But I wonder if one of the GMs thought Sorokin was Shasturkin. I don't understand what he got the number one vote at all. I'm like, that maybe happened.

Other than that, I think Freddie should have been in the top three, but I don't know how anybody can bet against Igor Shasturkin. Like, I just don't understand how that's humanly possible. I'd like to see if we can't make them public some justification, right? Like a sentence being like, this is why I picked this guy. But I don't know. I think Freddie deserved more top three clout, but not number one. Yeah, you know, I made a bet with my uncle midway through the season who was going to win the best.

And he took Freddie. I took Shisterkin. So he owes me a dinner. But I think there's got to be a little bit of transparency, especially when his GMs. I think there's something that comes with being a unanimous winner. And then I remember thinking, okay, remember the two. 2014-15 season when Kerry Price won everything that wasn't nailed down. I went and checked the voting there, and he wasn't unanimous either.

We had three other goalies getting first-place votes over Kerry Price, who not only won the best number, but won the Hart Trophy and everything else that year. So I guess we're just never, we're never all going to have a perfect system. But in the end, he's got the award in his hands. Calder Trophy going to Sider in Detroit, which I thought was my award for, speech of the night where he said his parents were on vacation. I guess they figure vacations much more important. And I got to ask you guys about Keenan Thompson, yay or nay on hosting yet again. Oh, yeah. Sarah? Yeah. And I loved that it cut off the second he made a joke about the Leaves.

He was like, well, congratulations to the Leaps for getting something in June or whatever. And then it immediately cut off. Like, I wonder if that, I'm sure it was like a typing strain thing, but it was still hilarious. I thought he was really good, bringing some clout to the league, too. Yeah, he was good. The only part that I thought was really awkward was when they gave the award to the, like, young kid for like best youth hockey player or whatever. And he was like joking. Like, who let him in here? Is he old enough? And his dad looked like concerned. Like, are they going to throw us out of here? I don't know. That specific part was so awkward. And I was like, man, I can feel the like the tension in the air there.

Aside from that, I thought he was amazing. And on the Calder, yeah, I mean, more it's he like, that was one that we pretty much all knew that Cider was going to win that award, I thought. Yeah. Yeah, voted for him. I thought that he had his funny moments, but you're right. I think there were a lot of awkward moments. He would make a joke and kind of go, okay, next up, let's go to.

Like, there was a lot of that awkwardness. Like if he's not on an SNL skit where he knows exactly what he's. supposed to be. He had no idea what his next job was. But the leaf crack was hilarious. Nice to seeing a leaf win something in June. And I also, I think it was timing because eight o'clock Eastern was when it ended. So much so that they were trying to cut off Austin Matthews speech. And I'm like, this is the big award of the night. This is, you know, the heart, the best picture, everything. And they were trying to cut him off. So awards are done just before we started, recording this podcast, guys, we talked a lot about the coaching carousel.

It looks as though Paul Maurice has found a new home with the Florida Panthers, one of now nine teams that will have a new coach come October of next year. Of course, he's the one who stepped down with the Winnipeg Jets saying they needed a new voice, and now he gets to coach one of the best teams in hockey. Your early reactions to this one, Jesse. Well, Paul Maurice went from Winnipeg to South Beach, so that's a win for him, right? Yeah, weather-wise at least.

It's, to me, what's interesting is you've mentioned the coaching carousel and how crazy it has been this year. And the coaches are, it's like a musical chair. They're all just taking each other's spots. I wonder if Andrew Burnett is going to be considered for any of these other openings. He's a guy who was probably not being interviewed because it was kind of just assumed that Florida would keep him. And I'm not assumed, but that would be the most likely thing I, at least in my mind. opinion. So now the fact that he's out there, I wonder if he's a candidate for these other jobs. I think Paul Maurice is a great coach. I think he's going to do a good job in Florida.

But to me, the more interesting thing is, is, does anyone else believe in Burnett? Clearly, Florida thought that he was just kind of there and they had a really talented team and he just kind of was along for the ride. I wonder if there are any other GMs out there that believe in him. It's just funny. Like, now we're talking about awards too. And like you think about the Jack Adams and Brunette was a finalist. And then Ednar and Cooper like aren't really. in that and they're in the cup finals right now. So it's just kind of funny how that I'm just thinking about that. But I'm also like,

part of me thinks I should have kept him. I don't know. I don't think he's going to get, if they're not keeping him, I feel like I'm, if I'm a GM of a different team, I'm looking around like, why aren't they keeping him?

Maybe I shouldn't look at him. It could just be the case of a better guy is out there. Not that he did a bad job. And we see it, we've seen it happen in all sports. I mean, it's not necessarily. an indication that you think this coach is the wrong guy for the job, but there's a better

guy for the job. And Paul Maurice's resume pretty much speaks for itself. But yeah, it's really tough to see what Florida did this year, given the circumstances in which they had their first coaching change. Obviously, their playoffs were not what they wanted, but, you know, Paul Maurice, we're going to see how he fares in Florida. But, man, you look at all the teams making coaching changes. It's been absolutely nuts this year. And we're not done. We could see a whole, We've got a bunch of teams right now. Boston, Detroit, Winnipeg, Chicago, all looking for new coaches, and we've seen a lot of shuffling around.

So we'll get more of that later on because we've gone how many minutes now and we haven't talked about the Stanley Cup final. So let's talk about the Stanley Cup final because Colorado have a 2-1 series lead. Raise your hand if you thought after that 7-0 game to win that this is going to be a very, very short series. The thought popped into my mind for about a second and then the Tampa Bay Lightning do what they always do. and just let us know that the Tampa Bay Lightning

and respond with a pretty killer game six, game three with a six two win. Vasilevsky was Vasilevsky, goals, everything they did that they've done over the last two years to win the Stanley Cup. What do you think of game three, Sarah? Yep. It's not to be like that's exactly what I expected,

but at the same time, you don't, with what Cooper was saying, kind of we're going to have a better start, and then they did. And then the second they overturned that goal, I was like, they need to take advantage of this. And they did and they ran away with it. Yeah, I expected that, especially at home.

Vasilevsky looked like Vasilevsky. So when I think about game three, I think about Cooper's decision to keep Vaselowski in game two. And I think that was the right call. Yeah, for me, Tampa Bay seems to have followed a similar arc in every single series this playoffs, where Vasilevsky and the team as a whole, start off a little slow, takes them some time to get their footing. There's a few soft goals here and there. And we all say, oh, are they done?

I feel like we've done it four series in a row. And then Vasilevsky gets better as the series goes on. The whole team gets better as the series goes on. I expected Vaselowski to have a huge bounce back. You give up seven goals. That guy is so prideful. I knew he was going to come in here and do what he did. I was a little surprised they scored as much.

much as they did. I didn't think it'd be a blowout. I expected Darcy Kemper to stop a puck or two. He did not. He was awful. I mean, Darcy Kemper was awful. And unlike Vasilevsky, who I was, like, he was awful in game two, but I was confident that that's not going to continue. I'm not as confident in Kemper. I still think it should be his net moving forward, but that was a major concern if you're the avalanche. And like I said, I think the Lightning, they've done this every single series. You know they're going to keep getting stronger as the series goes on. The aves are going to have to play. They are not going to run away with this series.

Two things you guys touched on that I want to bring up. How huge was that offside overturned? I mean, for momentum for everything. But I was sitting there watching on my couch saying, if they don't overturn this, just be gone with video replay. I was getting so with every second, because it was taking forever.

I kept seeing on that one angle of the puck leaving the zone. And I'm thinking if this thing gets allowed, we just have to stop with the video replay because they're looking dumber and dumber by the minute. But they got, at least in my opinion, they got this one right. Yeah, I'm with you on that. Like, it is pretty stupid when this is the one random obscure rule that you can do video review on. But like, might as well take advantage of it if it's there, right? So good for Cooper and his staff. The whole time I was just thinking, video guy must be the hardest job.

the most high pressure job in the playoffs. I'm so bad at looking at those specific things. I'm like, okay, that definitely is offside. But how do you just look to think about that? I guess when it's your job you do. But it's like, Jesus Christ, that's high pressure. See, I wasn't as convinced as you guys. I'm not saying that it wasn't out of the zone.

But how many times have we seen, it's usually on the goal line is usually when this comes up. But they always talk about the ice is not, the lines are not painted on the top of the ice. Like I think when we watch hockey, we think the line is on the top of the ice. It's not. It's like an inch below the ice or three quarters of an inch below the ice. And I can remember specifically watching video reviews where you can see the puck cross the goal line by about two millimeters or whatever. And they say, no, it looks to your eyes like it's crossed the line.

But if you were to look above, it actually isn't because that line is below. the bottom of the ice. I don't know how to explain this on a podcast. It's really hard. But, but, but it is, it's science, okay? It's science. It will look, it will look from your eyes from an angle like the puck has crossed the line, but then if you were to shift to the view looking directly down at it, it didn't cross the line. And I honestly thought they were going to say that for this blue line review. It looked very similar to those reviews around the goal line that they usually don't say there's indisputable evidence. I don't understand how we don't just have a chip in puck and you can literally just hit a button and it tells you, yes, it exited the zone.

No, it didn't exit the zone. That should be what we're doing. But because we don't, I honestly thought there was a chance that didn't get overturned. I understand the chip and the puck argument because I've said it too. And I understand why the NHL says they can't do it because it's just flat out too expensive when pucks constantly are going into the stands. But I watch a lot of tennis. Hawkeye looks like the most accurate, quick, amazing thing in sports.

to me. It's like challenge, you watch it. The crowd gets into it. 10 seconds later, you have the correct call. I don't know how we can't figure out some sort of system where it zooms in and goes, yeah, that came out of the zone. And in the most Canadian thing I've ever said on this podcast, and I've said some pretty Canadian things. I actually put ice in. I used to work in a hockey rink, and I've done the painting of the lines. So yes, I'm very aware of exactly how deep it is. You actually have to do it like a bunch of times. Like you start with nothing like concrete. you put a couple layers of ice, you paint. A couple more layers of ice, you paint.

You paint like three or four times. And it is deceiving, but that puck came out. So you said you want Kemper back in that, Jesse. What's his leash, though? What's his two bad goals and he's out? Yep, two goals, two goals. Because I think three goals, you're in trouble. Game's probably over, even if you do make the goalie switch,

although with the abs offense, maybe I'm ahead of myself on that one. But to me, two goals with this offense, we can absolutely come back. If he gives up two questionable goals early, I'm for sure going to Frantus. Yeah, I've been weighing as if I'm making the decision. It's been weighing on my mind. I would go with Frantus just because you still are in a position where it's not absolutely must win. You still have a lead in the series. So it's kind of like, why don't you see what you got in him?

And then when it's do or die, you go back to, I don't know. I don't know. And then I'm like, why would I do that? Why don't I just reverse that? I would hate to make this decision. They're losing in that matchup anyway. Right. They're never going to be winning that matchup.

So I don't know what I would do. I'm kind of like Sarah. I've kind of been like, no, you've got to go back to Kemper. I mean, he's going to have a bounce back game. But you're going to be losing that matchup anyway. So you almost have to cut the rink in half and look for more goals. But for the other thing I wanted to mention,

23rd straight year, we're not going to see a sweep in the Stanley Cup final. That is just extending on a record. Major League Baseball and the NBA, their records are 12. So I think that's interesting. It's gone that long without a streak, without a sweep, excuse me. The other thing, Corey Perry, who always seems to be in the mix when you talk about these things, rewrote the record books, the only player ever to score a goal in four different finals with four different teams. So, I mean, but if they end up losing this series, that's three straight losses with three different teams.

teams for Cory Perry as well. Right. These types of stats, especially in like the Stanley Cup final, are always hilarious to me because they're so, it's an impressive stat. And then you're like, why is he on all these teams? What's going on? And then he's losing on these teams. So it'll be interesting to see.

It was funny when it went, Pat Maroon, Corey Perry. I'm like, what year are we in right now? Yeah. It's like that age old argument. People always bring up like about trades. Well, if a team is trading for you, they really want you. They want your skills. they want your ability and someone will say, yeah, but if a team's training you, they don't want

your ability. They don't want you on their team. Glass out full half empty sort of thing. Is Corey Perry, is Corey Perry Hall of Famer? Yeah. I think, I think so. And this might be watering it down for you. I don't know. What do you think? You're a little more harsh than me. I'm very much more harsh. Yeah, I think, I think he was an elite, elite hockey player for like, if he had been that guy for longer, he's a for sure Hall of Famer. He fell off, but to me, the fact that he was able to change his style, reinvent his game, still be a contributing player on contending teams. I don't know. His Hall of Fame resume to me is different, very different from most, because most really good

players that are going to be considered for the Hall of Fame, they kind of are what they are for their whole career. Corey Perry has like two very different chapters to his career, but they were both really good. And I think on their own, maybe each one isn't worth being in the Hall of Fame. But I don't know. I just, I like Corey Perry's story, his career arc. I just really like it. So I would vote him for the Hall of Fame if it was up to me.

If Rod Brindamore is not in the Hall of Fame, I'm not putting Corey Perry in. And I'll keep banging the drum. I'll keep doing it. I think if you put his resume up against a lot of people who are in the Hall of Fame, it's much better. So I would say he's a Hall of Famer. but as you alluded to, Jesse, I almost wish we could just wipe the slate clean and start over

because that's unfortunately the argument every year. Well, if this guy's in the Hall of Fame, well, then this guy's got to be in the Hall of Fame. All that being said, I agree. Rod Brindmore should be in the Hall of Fame. I should mention Kuturoff is in after that cross-track from Devon Taves. Nick Paul is in after limping off with what looked like something broken inside of his body, comes back, scores, and plays the rest of the game.

be interesting to see how he is looking there. But we've got Game 4 tonight. And I don't know about you guys. I thought Game 3 got a little salty too with a lot of the after the whistle stuff. I'm curious to see how game 4 goes. We've been talking a lot about coaching Carousal, different coaches moving everywhere. One of those teams that were making changes, the Dallas Stars, and we'll talk to Sad Yusuf after the break about what their team is going to look like moving forward.

So don't go anywhere. As I mentioned earlier on in the show, when the puck drops in October. at least, I'm saying at least because we don't know what's going to happen in the offseason. Nine teams are going to be starting with a new coach behind the bench, one of those teams, the Dallas Stars, after Rick Bonas, stepped down. Pete DeBoer officially hired as the new head coach of the Stars and to talk about that. A little bit more. Sad Yusuf joining us who covers the team for the athletic.

How are you guys doing? We're doing great. We'll start like this. Jesse, you covered Pete DeBore for a long, long time. Well, long enough. and now you've got Sod here who's about to cover him on a regular basis. Any advice? This is your time. This is where you've got a mentor and say, here's what you do and here's what you don't do. Yeah, we were talking a little bit about it off the air. Let Pete crack his jokes. I was telling Saad, when the Golden Knights hired Pete, I've heard him called prickly Pete before. I was worried, oh my gosh, this guy's going to be, he's going to be just angry all the time. That was kind of the vision I had of him. He was nothing like that. Pete DeBore is hilarious.

He likes to crack jokes. So I would say, just get him going on that. And like I said, he's always got one-liners ready for you. He's fun to cover. All right, Saad, your thoughts when you heard the news? Obviously, I know a little later on today he's going to be speaking to the media. You're going to be there. But your thoughts when you heard Pete DeBoer, the new head coach of the Dall Stars.

Well, first of all, when you just told Jesse that he covered him for a long time, I don't know that anyone's covered Pete for a long time. Yeah, that's why I brought it back. That's why I had to go backwards. Because Pete's been around. I mean, he's, yeah, this is a, you know, this is his fifth job, I think, right? Like New Jersey, Florida, New Jersey, Vegas.

San Jose. San Jose. So, yeah, so he's been around. But, you know, for me, when I heard that it wasn't a surprise that the stars went in this direction because this is a general manager and also just an organization that doesn't really believe in trying to, like, ramp things up from the bottom. Like, they want, they're in the middle and they're okay being in the middle and and going up from there, but they're not going to risk going down.

So a developmental guy, someone who would take a large learning curve and could sink the team a little bit, I didn't think they were realistically going to go in that direction. I mean, they did try to go in that direction a few years ago when they hired Jim Montgomery straight from the college ranks, but that didn't go well. I mean, he was fired for non-hockey reasons, but even when he was the coach, I mean, they had regressed in almost, you know, all statistical categories. So I thought they were going to go with someone that was more of a sure thing, quote unquote. But so it wasn't a huge surprise.

And, you know, I talked to Jesse a lot during the while I was like, you know, while I was in the middle of the search and everything. And, you know, Jesse told me the kind of style that Pete, that Pete brings. And it's a lot of what the stars have been used to. So it's going to be kind of a smooth transition. Yeah, that's what I was going to kind of transition to is it's, obviously, of very safe choice. He's led teams to the playoffs pretty much every year in the NHL for a very long time. But to me, when I think of the Dallas Stars, I think of lack of offense. They play structured defense. They've kind of been that for a long time. I think a lot of times when a team is that

way, they go the opposite way when they hire a new coach. We're going to get a young offensive guy or something like, you know what I mean, kind of opposite. This is like you said, very much Pete DeBore is a defensive, structurally, like, responsible kind of are the things that he preaches. Was you surprised at all that they went the exact same kind of style that they've been on? A little bit, just because they did take a hard left from Lindy Ruff. So, Lindy Ruff for four years when Jim Nell first got hired, they were one of the best offensive teams, or I think the best offensive team in the league over those four years or maybe they were number two.

But then they went from that to Ken Hitchcock, which was really, really defense, defensive structured. And then Jim Montgomery kind of carried that over. and then Rick Bonas was the same way. So I thought they might go a little bit more to the other side. But when you look at the candidates that were out there, you know, Barry Trots would have been a lot of the same as well. Pete DeBore, I think is, like you said, a lot of the same.

And then when you look at the personnel, that's the other thing. I don't think the stars really have the personnel on the roster to really be this big, explosive team, at least not of the guys that we know yet. They have some young junior guys that might be a spark. We don't know that yet. But of the guys that are on the NHL roster, they don't have a lot of NHL offensive fireworks outside of Robertson and Hints,

and maybe Hayskin and if he's unleashed. But that's about it. And because Tyler Stake and Jamie Ben aren't those guys anymore. And the other thing is the stars are strapped against the cap. So they don't have any room to add anyone in free agency either. Well, if I'm a stars fan, I am just brimming with excitement right now. Sounds great. That sounds so much fun. Yeah, it's, it's kind of like what Jesse said.

You know, it's, it's the safe choice. And I think Stars fans are a little disappointed in that. I think like, Stars fans have kind of been riding the safe choice for a while now, you know, in terms of like, let's just get to the playoffs. Like that's been the mantra around here is let's get to the playoffs. And stars fans are like, well, what about winning the Cup? Like, that sounds kind of cool. and also like they came pretty close to it a couple years ago.

So I think there should be some excitement. I do think that Pete DeBore should get a chance to, you know, really put his stamp on. I'm really interested to see what his staff is going to look like because I do think that's important as well. It's not just about the head coach. Last year, Rick Bonas's failures were not just on him. A lot of it fell on his staff as well. So I'm interested to see that aspect of it as well. So you kind of touched on my next question.

I read your piece about the hiring, and you talked about the culture of mediocrity with this team. And when I read that, it kind of clicked in my head because when I think of the Dallas stars, that's what I think of. Middle of the road team. And they measure success, as you mentioned in your piece, maybe different from other teams. How do they get away with that and get away from that, excuse me, with this move? Because if you constantly believe in that mediocrity, that's exactly where you're going to stay. Yeah, they actually have a pretty smooth transition to get out of that culture of mediocrity right now.

Because, you know, when Jim Nill got here in 2013, the stars were a couple of years removed from bankruptcy. They were not, they were, I don't want to say they were the Arizona Coyotes, but, you know, they were trending more in that direction than anything else. Like, it was not going well. They had missed the playoffs five straight years. They were bankrupt. Ownership was a mess. Everything was just terrible. And Jim Nill comes in and kind of.

kind of helps them get out of that rut a little bit. And by the time they got out of that, they had a core in place in Tyler Sagan, Jamie Ben, John Klingberg, all these guys who would kind of become accustomed to that being the standard of let's just not be the laughing stock of the NHL. Well, that core is kind of gone. In terms of they're still on the roster, Ben and Sagan are still on the roster,

Klingberg might not be. Radjolov is gone. But in terms of the actual core of the team, now it's Robertson, Hintz, Oettinger, and Hayskin, and these guys are all mostly 23 and younger. They don't know that their culture hasn't been established yet, and that's what Pete DeVore gets to do. He gets to come in with a new core, a new young core, and really establish his footprint on a new culture, I think.

What does that four-year deal mean to you? I know you talked about this a bit in your piece as well. I know it doesn't really matter. is not as if coaches count against the cap or anything, but does that really show a commitment to beat DeBoer, turning this thing around and giving up some time to do it? A little bit. Just with how,

I think just with how quick NHL franchises can be to pull the trigger on, you know, firing coaches, like I don't know how much that really, I guess, matters, but it does matter a little bit because Tom Galardi is an owner who's not going to want to pay multiple coaches for no reason, right? So I think he's going to stick it through with DeBore as long as he can.

The interesting thing is, is that Jim Nill, the general manager, has one year left on his contract. So Pete Dibor could enter the final three years of his contract with a boss that didn't hire him. And so that's kind of the interesting thing here. Although there is talk about Jim Nill potentially moving into a higher role in the front office and then hiring another general manager, that's a possibility. So Jim Nill could still be in the building. But the four-year deal is interesting, but I don't think you were going to get a coach of Dibor's caliber or Barry Trots or Bruce Cassidy or someone like that without having that kind of commitment.

Well, you want to talk to him now. Make sure, as Jesse said, you let him crack his jokes. That's the best advice you could give anyone for covering a new coach. Saad, thanks so much for doing this. We'll talk to you soon. All right. Thanks for having me, guys. Saad Yusuf, who covers the Dallas Stars for the athletic new head coach,

Beat DeBoer, going to be introduced to media a little later on today. After the break, we will go through our rapid fire topics, so don't go anywhere. All right, guys, my favorite portion of the show and yours, rapid fire, things we didn't get to earlier on in the show. Number one, John Tortorella, the new head coach of the Philadelphia Flyers, and I ask you, is there more of a John Tortorella fan base than the Philadelphia Flyers and the city of brotherly love? This just seems like they're going to love him there, aren't they? Jesse? Yeah, I feel like it's a perfect match. I mean, John Tortorilla is Philadelphia. Yeah. Like if it doesn't work out perfectly here, I'll be shocked. And when I say perfectly, I don't mean they're going to win Stanley Cups. I just think it's going to be highly entertaining for

everyone to watch. I can't wait to see how this era in Philly plays out. Sarah, are you excited as I am for the Tortorella era in Philly? Yes. The entertainment factor is high here. I totally agree with that. And I do think he's changed some of his philosophies and changed some of his ways. And he isn't the same, like, he's not a grumpy old man in a bad way. Like, he's kind of a grumpy old man in a good way to me, if that makes sense. I don't know him personally, but just like kind of what I've heard. I think the locker room in Philly right now is kind of full of some younger guys that haven't seen success and might need kind of a sterner talking to. I've heard the old John Tortorella has changed his ways to before. And then Patrick Line is sitting on the bench.

Speak. Yeah. Just don't. Just do not try. Just do not try. Try a lacrosse. Yeah, it's not good for hockey. Could you, oh, I would, if I was on that team first practice, I would be like, let me just see what happens if I try a lacrosse school or the, the, the Zegris, you know, dish again as we, as it got named. Sticking with coaches, Jay Woodcroft, three-year deal with the Edmonton Oilers. Seemed pretty obvious to me, really turned things around in Edmonton.

Really good, sir. Yeah, he's never been the problem. He could be part of the solution there. Yeah, I think of all the coaches they've had over the last, since they've had Connor McDavid, I think this is the best the team has looked, both offensively and defensively. I think that was a no-brainer. Now that Florida has filled their post, Barry Trots, I mean, is it, are we just delaying the inevitable here? Is he going to Winnipeg? I mean, it's his, it's his, where he's from,

a brewery has offered him free beer for life if he signs with the Winnipeg Jets. I feel like this is going to happen. It's just a matter of when. Jesse? Yeah, it certainly feels that way, especially with, like you said, these teams. that you would have thought would have been potential landing spots, whether it was Dallas, Vegas, Florida. Now that all these, I guess, the top tier teams, the teams that are expected to be in the playoffs have hired their coaches. I think that the options are running thin. It certainly looks like Trots is destined for his home province in Manitoba. Definitely like the home province.

I want to be able to write a headline that says Trot Trot to Boston, but I don't think that's going to happen. And I think I agree with Jesse with the Winnipeg. And I would have also kind of like to see Trots and maybe a front office position. That might be looming in a few years. That'd be fun. Could happen in the future. Right. I think he said that he wants to transition that.

Maybe that's part of the reason he didn't go to one of these teams like Boston or Vegas, is he wants a little more control over management. I don't know. Ethan Bear, who's a restricted free agent, grant to permission to talk to other teams. Sarah, I know Carolina would like to resign him. him, but obviously there's situations going on with the cap. Is he still in Carolina next year or is he elsewhere? Yeah, that's a tricky one because he got COVID and he was never really the same after.

And the Keynes kind of acted accordingly. I think he could have got a game in the playoffs. They never gave him one. And I asked him if he thought he had long COVID. And he said, I don't know. It was really hard to breathe getting back into working out. And I could never like really find that gear that I used to be able to shift into. So I hope he's getting adequate help for that.

I think he can turn it around once he gets over that. And I do think it's a tricky one for him because he didn't really get to show what he's worth at the end of the season there. So I understand why the cane's strapped to the cap won't be able to make that happen. I think he's probably gone. And finally, Jesse, I know it's been a few days, but the Weber-daddenoff deal, obviously salary cap. at the forefront of that one moving contracts around. But what did you think of the deal? Yeah, another day in Vegas where they're just doing ridiculous salary cap gymnastics.

It's like this team constantly is making trades that are non-hockey trades just to open cap space. This time they were successful in trading of Genni Dadanoff. They tried before and he boomerang right back to him. This time they were successful at sending him out of town. And they get back. Shea Weber's contract, he will never play in Vegas, he will never set foot in Vegas unless he and his family decide to come for a family vacation. It's purely a cap dump move. It's actually, and the thing is, Shea Weber's contract is insured. So it's actually saving Bill Foley cash dollars and it's saving the Golden Knights $5 million off the cap for next year. So that's not the last of the cap moves. The Golden Knights are probably going to shed some more cap. They've got a lot of RFAs and UFAs that have. raises coming up. So they are looking to shed even more. I wouldn't be surprised if they're not done.

I do not envy your job trying to keep track of the salary cap gymnastics in Las Vegas. Guys, that wraps up another show before we go. What are we working on this week? Sarah? Got a little story on. All right, Jessie. I'm like, what am I working on? I don't even know. If you're a Hurricanes fan listening to this, think about who you think is the best draft pick of all time. I'll be just. a story with that person. Cool. I will be doing a lot of those, the math that Rob does not envy that I have to do. I have an entire piece of paper in front of me. It has so many numbers with dollar signs.

I am trying to project out the Golden Knights roster after that to Donoff move. We're still not there. Like I said, there's still some more moves to be made. But I think we're getting a little clearer picture of what the 2022-23 goldenites are going to look like. So I'm cranking out a roster projection here in the next couple days. Jesse doing a beautiful mind in covering hockey here with all these numbers. Guys, thanks so much. We'll see you next week. I want to let everybody know some other things that are on tap as far as the athletic goes.

Of course, Craig Custinson, Sean Gentile on The Athletic Show, USA. They'll be talking to Brady Kachuk. So be sure to give that a listen. And be sure to follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Don't forget, leave us a rating and a review. You can subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcast. You get all your bonus content from the entire. network breaks down like this. You start with 30-day free trial, and it's just 99 cents a month

after that. And right now, you get an annual subscription to The Athletic for just a dollar a month for six months when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show. The Athletic Hockey Show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and Down Goes Brown. For Jesse, for Sarah, I'm Rob. I'll talk to you next week.