The Athletic Hockey Show - Bill Daly on the NHL 20/21 season, COVID-19 and Division Realignment

Episode Date: January 13, 2021

On the Two Man Advantage edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, Scott Burnside and Pierre Lebrun welcome NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly, ahead of the NHL's puck drop on the beginning of the 20/21 season.Plus Scott and Pierre discuss Keith Yandle's ironman streak coming to an end, Evander Kane's financial woes, five coaches who are entering the final year of their contracts, and Scott and Pierre preview the NHL's four divisions and provide their Stanley Cup picks. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, everybody. Scott Burnside here, and we are back with the athletic hockey show, two-man advantage. A new twist on things for 2021. I hope it bodes well for the coming year, the coming season. The one thing remains constant in that little snippet of the brass pananza there, but also, of course, Pierre LeBron, joining me from Toronto. How are you feeling, my friend, in a few hours? Where are you taping this? It's on the morning of opening night. It's sort of like a baseball thing. Opening puck drop night. Five games to kick off the revamp 2021 NHL season.

How are you feeling? Do you feel different than normal on opening day for the NHL season? How are you feeling? Well, first of all, yeah, the rebranding of our podcast under this new umbrella. I feel like those WHA teams that went into the NHL umbrella in 1979, don't you? especially, you know, when you think of the brass bonanza. But so there we are. We're part of this new umbrella.

It's all good. Look forward to continuing to bring it with you on this podcast every week. I just hope we're not the Birmingham Bulls of the athletic hockey show, though. That's what I'm hoping. Yes, that's a good point. But yeah, it's obviously a different feeling here on opening night. I mean, you know, normally, you know, the Leafs are hosting the HABs. I'd be at a morning skate and obviously they're trying to limit the footprint for the local media

and I don't feel right taking a spot away from a beatwriter because they actually do work. So I'll be watching from home. And again, for those listening or are wondering what it's like for the media as we start this season, I mean, there still is no access to the dressing rooms, of course, or to players or to anyone. I mean, the people going into the arena is to watch games are doing just that and then they're at a own, right? All the interaction and the interviews

are still done over Zoom for probably for, well, most of the year, I would think. So it is a year like no other. And I would say the other thing to keep in mind, as we've already seen with the Dallas Stars affecting the schedule, that just go with the flow, that whatever it says on your schedule,

schedule for next week. It's not written in stone. I think what we saw with Major League Baseball where, gee, some teams missed like 10 days of the schedule and came back and tried to make up those games, right? Football, we have games on Tuesday night, Wednesday night. Hockey's going to follow suit. I mean, unfortunately, there are going to be situations, postponements, and we just have to get used to the, you know, to the lack of, you know, certainty involved at this very unique season. Yeah. And what's great about this show is that in a few minutes,

we're going to hear from Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly and we'll be talking to him about the Dallas situation and what that means. And just in case people haven't followed it, the SARS were, you know, have already had three games postponed. It won't come back any earlier than the 19th. That's still very much in the air.

Now their training facility did open. Yesterday, the day before we're taping this, but they were missing 14 or 15 players. And they've had 17 positive tests among just the players. So, and that, you know, that to your point, Pierre, that you can't have, you don't want to have too many of those. But, and I talked to somebody, you know, a team executive who said, listen, this is, this is better to have this now a few days before the start of the season. than in mid-February or mid-March or mid-May. So, you know, glass half full, that's probably an accurate statement. But I think the expectation is that there are going to be some speed bumps along the way.

It just seems because you don't control the COVID-19 virus. It controls you. And it's still out of control, even with the vaccines rolling out. It still is. That's just the way life is around. the world. It's certainly life in North America where the NHL is based and we're going to have to get used to it. And I wonder if you think that will, you know, do you think fans are, will are almost used to it? Right. As you point out, with MLB and NFL, do you think they're used to it? Do they, they, do you think they understand? And, and that it won't, it won't hamper the enjoyment of, of what we do see on the end.

Well, and even the NBA, which has already had its season underway, has had some, some, you know, postponance, right? And it's funny because. the NBA certainly seemed to get their act together first. But I remember, and I think I told you this guy, I remember thinking that is not a bad thing for the NHL to sort of let the NBA go first because, you know, let's see how this plays out. And you can learn, again, there's another league that you can learn from. And all these leagues talk to each other. I mean, the commissioners and deputy commissioners and the players associations

all have intermingling communication about best practices and issues. And so, yeah, if you're the NHL, you know, the NFL on a, which has this incredible platform and profile, football has, you know, gotten to the playoffs and they've had tons of postponance. And like I said, a game on a Wednesday night and a game, which was a low point for me, a game featuring the Denver Broncos didn't have a quarterback. I don't think you want that if you're the NHL in terms of, you know, the kind of lineup that that NHL team will be able to ice this year at different points. You know, I asked Bill Daly this for a Q&A during the holidays

about knowing having the smell test for that moment, right? When will the Denver Broncos moment come for the NHL where you're like, you know, how many skaters and the level, you know, you know,

there are there are there to many HL players of this lineup that I don't know. Like at some point you'll just, they'll probably know what to feel it, right? And so that'll be an interesting moment probably at some point this year for the NHL. But, and, and listen, And we're so obviously the priorities to focus on the health part of all this in the middle of a pandemic. But the business side, in terms of the NHL teams navigating the salary cap on opening night, it's been unbelievable to watch all the navigating.

I mean, you know, Tyler Johnson, I think, is going to miss opening night for Tampa because of the cap. But then the rest of the year, it'll be a second line player killing the penalty. Like, it's all about the cap, right? It's all about how to navigate the opening night roster. with LTI and all this stuff and it's happening all over the place. I mean, I talked about this on insider trading yesterday, but, you know, it was far from ideal for Edmonton and Winnipeg each to lose their number three goalie on waivers.

And because the number three goalie this year is going to be pretty important, I think, for a lot of teams because of what we're living. And now I think that both the Oilers and the Jets will go out and figure that out over time here and pluck another goalie and so on. replace them. But all these things are kind of unique to this year and are going to be important. Yeah. Let's hit a couple of the newsier elements as we head into our discussion with Deputy Commissioner Bill Daley. I was

interested to follow what is happening with the Florida Panthers and defenseman Keith Yandel and, you know, a real change, the beginnings of a change of culture. I I think under new GM Bill Zito in Florida. And, you know, it's been clear for some time during training camp that maybe Keith Yandel doesn't fit the long-term plans for the Panthers under head coach Joel Quenville now in his second season there. And, of course, Bill Zito going into his first season as a GM there. Now, the interesting, you know, there's such a, I mean, a number of layers to this, but Keith Yandel, the current NHL Iron Man. salary cap hit of $6.35 million, has a no move clause, but may not be, and I think the signal

seem to be that he won't be in the opening night roster for the Panthers when they begin their season, and obviously looking for a place that another team that might be interested in Keithy Andles' services terrific power play guy, but that's a real, that's a bit of a shocker, I think, for a team that's, you know, that's still sort of middle of the pack. and really searching for success in South Florida. Yeah, I mean, it's, uh, listen, you know, Bill Zito wasn't hired because the Panthers had had won the cup five, the last six years. No, I mean, that's right.

Yeah, no, it's true. You've got a frustrated owner who wants change. And I think a lot of that changes is not just on the ice in terms of getting better players and winning more games, but I think it's cultural too. And, you know, you feel. for Keith Yannel that if his streak ends this way as a healthy scratch. But, and listen, you and I both have the interactions with Keith Yannel over the years. Very nice guy, fun to talk to.

But let me just be blunt. I mean, on the one side, you feel it's unfair that that's how it may end. On the other side, play better. I mean, I'm sorry, but that's just what it is. and, you know, we'll see how this plays out. I mean, he's technically part of their opening season roster, actually, I believe. But, you know, he's got the full no move clause, so you can't put him on the taxi squad. I guess unless he wanted to be.

But being part of the opening night roster doesn't necessarily mean that you're part of the opening night lineup. or maybe he is and then doesn't play the next game. We know, let's see how this plays out, but it's clear from what we're seeing deployed from the reports out of South Florida in terms of the training camp groups and lines and the deep airings that Keith Yanel has fallen out of favor there. And finally, before we get to Bill Daley, just I don't know why it made me, I felt sad about it, but certainly I think fairly shocking news with the,

reports, including reports in the athletic regarding the bankruptcy filings on behalf of Sharks Forward, Evander Kane, claiming $26.8 million of debt. I know that Bob Boogner, who is going into his first season, as head coach of the San Jose Sharks told reporters that Evander Kane is on board and the expectation is he's going to be playing with the sharks. There was some suggestion in the bankruptcy fund. Rylings themselves in those papers that he might not play this season. He's got a young family, but apparently he will be playing. But, you know, that's a hard, it's a hard thing.

And it's a, it's a hard thing for a Sharks team that's trying to pick itself up after a very disappointing season last year, being one of the seven teams that didn't qualify for a return to play. What do you make of all that? Yeah, I mean, it's hard for it not to be a distraction, no matter how much of a pro you are and and so on. I mean, that's, that's, again, judging from legal documents that were obtained and so on. I mean, and I want to be careful how I comment on it because clearly there's a lot we don't know. And, you know, often with athletes and certainly Evander gives me the

impression of a guy with a big heart who knows how many people that he's tried to help out, right, according to the legal documents and so on. But also some, some, some, some, bad choices, I think, mixed in there. So, cautionary tale, we've seen it over the years with athletes, right? But also, you know, a player that I admire because of the social stand that he's taken. And, you know, it was really, you know, him and Akima Liu and a few other guys that kind of forced hockey, you know, Black Lives Matter to, to, to, to, force us to have these conversations that we finally needed to have. And so let's not forget that part of it, even though clearly it is, you know, business and personal life, there are issues here.

And so that's one of the things I thought of too is that I hope people don't minimize the part of it where he's had a lot of positive change. Yeah, no, I think that's an excellent point. And good to remember as we move forward with that. All right, my friend, as promised, special guest here on our show today. He's not very busy these days. Deputy Commissioner Bill Daley, thanks for joining us. Bill, let's start with this. In a matter of hours, we're going to have a puck drop in Philadelphia first of five games to start this 2021 season. Does it feel different to you then, say, the lead up to the puck drop on August 1st, return to play in the playoffs in the summer, does it feel different or is there a sort of similarity to it?

Well, I think there's a similarity to it for sure. And by the way, thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate you having me on. There's a similarity to it. You know, it, I always, there's always excitement involved with dropping the puck kind of on a new chapter. And while over the summertime, it was the completion of something we had started. This time, it's a, It's an entirely new season with an entirely new concept, an entirely new structure, and quite frankly, entirely new challenges. I'll be associated with a season that we've probably never encountered before. So there's still a sense of excitement and anticipation. I think the hockey community generally, certainly our clubs and our players are very excited to get going and to drop the puck, and we are as well.

so I can't wait to see the puck drop later this afternoon. Bill, for people listening, you know, wondering what a day is like for the deputy commissioner. I always remember finally spending a day in your office and I felt tired just sitting in your office, never watching you do what you do. And I'm just wondering what the hours were like negotiating all this with the NHLPA.

And I know they had a lot of people there working countless hours. Can you walk us through what it was like in the months leading to the moment where you have, you know, you have something to announce? Yeah, you know, it's a fair question, Pierre, and to tell you the truth, it's all kind of like a blur. I mean, you know, obviously you have some things scheduled for every day. You know, we have a lot of internal meetings that we have to carry on. I've got, you know, I suppose at the end of the day, I'm ultimately responsible for all our health and safety protocols. calls in our health and safety group and I get regularly briefed by that group and and you know we we deal with issues that come up on a daily basis on those calls and you know I have a you know I have a group in

central registry and legal that we we talk to frequently and that's a lot of the CBA issues and the roster issues and the taxi squad issues and the salary cap issues those are all you know front and center and then I've got regular communication with the players association and you know I'll single that out as having been you know really from the start of this pandemic to now really we've never been communicating better and you know while I can't say we agree on everything we're certainly aligned in directionally in what we're trying to accomplish and how we're trying to get there and I think each side has seen areas where the other side struggles and has worked to try to accommodate those. So that's obviously a big part of what we do.

You know, I'd say probably foolishly, you know, and that Gary alluded to it in our press media availability on Monday, that, you know, we normally you have, you know, a couple days after the season ends to. take a breath and decompress a little bit and before you know before you turn the page and look to next year you know for obvious reasons I guess that never happened this year so we went from the bubble in Edmonton and Gary awarding the Stanley Cup at the end of September you know to getting back to New York and getting on almost immediately not almost immediately immediately to the next challenge which was what we're about to go into tonight. So it's been a very long 10 months for sure.

And I'm looking forward to those days where I might be able to take a breath, but I'm also probably more anxiously looking forward to getting this season underway. Just a quick add-on, Bill, we able to recharge at all during the holidays? I know there's still work to be done. Well, I mean, in some ways,

ways I in some ways I did I actually you know we pushed really really really hard you know and I always get a kick out of the fact that you know people you know I think we're we're anxious for announcements and for for you know all all the things that need to be done to get done and and announced right away and why are we wasting time and etc etc they don't really kind of all the details that need to be worked out. And this is a very, very unique situation this year, particularly with where all the development leagues are or aren't in terms of playing or not playing, where the European leagues are, where the junior leagues are, where the minor professional leagues are. And where are all the players going to play? And how do you

keep players from losing a year of development, elite level development. These are all challenges that we've, you know, we had to work through with the Players Association. We still don't have answers to everything. So anyway, we pushed really, really, really hard through, I'd say, Christmas Eve. And then on Christmas Eve night, I received word that I attested positive for COVID. So, you know, at least it was on the eve of what was a less work-filled weekend. You know, I got to sleep a little later on Friday morning and Saturday morning than I normally would have. And, you know, I was only mildly symptomatic.

And, you know, after 10 days, I got out of isolation. I didn't feel perfect. But I'm certainly back to full health now. And, you know, again, I think timing-wise, it probably happened for me at the best time it possibly could have because I was able to kind of balance it with my workroom. Oh, man. So you feel fine now, Bill? Everything is good.

Yeah, no, I feel really good. You know, very healthy. It's been, what, I guess it will be three weeks tomorrow that I receive word. So, you know, the normal, you know, period that they keep you in isolation is 10 days unless you're symptomatic and you stay in a little longer. I would say, you know, I stayed out of the office, obviously, for two full weeks. And, you know, I had a family situation here with my wife and my 11-year-old son. My 11-year-old son also tested positive a week after I did, which kept us all in the house for a long time. But so far my wife's all good.

So I'm going to have her tested one more time just to make sure everybody's clean and we'll move on. Just to follow that up, I wonder when something like that happens, Bill, because you've been dealing with the pandemic and its effect and how it affects the game. And when you have something, you know, incredibly personal like that, does it change? Does it change how you view things? Do you have a different perspective? Do you think having gone through it? in that manner? You know what?

It's a fair question. I don't really think so. I mean, I think what's, I mean, certainly I knew a lot about, I know a lot about the virus. I, you know, I've been dealing with the virus and the situation it creates for 10 months now. So, you know, nothing about it, you know, there wasn't anything my doctor could tell me that I didn't know. So from that perspective, you know, it was it was fairly easy to navigate. I mean, the crazy thing about the COVID virus is the greatly disparate impact and effect and consequences it has on different people. So, you know, at the end of the day, I was very fortunate.

You know, while I had some symptoms, they were minor, you know, and I didn't get really sick. unfortunately a lot of people do and with with dire consequences for some so that's what makes the virus more scary than anything else that is for sure now now the league last night as we taped this on the opening night here last night you put out a statement bill or your office did to update the numbers of the positive cases around the league during training camp and you know obviously there was an outbreak in Dallas, which is far from my deal. But if you take the stars out of it, I think if I'm telling me if I'm wrong, 10 positive cases otherwise in the rest of the league.

I mean, of course you don't want any cases. I don't want to, you know, minimize that. But, I mean, maybe I'm misreading this, but certainly it could have been worse. I mean, what's your take of the numbers before the season here? Yeah, I mean, it's a, you know, I think I concur with your overall assessment. I mean, if you would ask me two weeks ago, you know, what's the number I would expect in a situation where every club had, you know, 36 players in camp and they were tested every day. That, you know, and they're not in a bubble, right? They're in a training camp situation and a lot of them who are prospects are staying in hotels and not even in their own homes. So the fact that of all those players, and I think we estimated it for purposes of release, about 1,200 players, and over 10,000 tests, like they're well over 10,000 tests, the fact that only, you know, Dallas aside, and, you know, it's hard to put Dallas aside.

But Dallas aside, the fact that we only had 10 players with confirmed positives, I think, was positive in the sense that I think it's the monsoon. of the fact that our players and their clubs are taking this seriously, that they're doing the right things, that they're staying safe, and they're staying vigilant. And I think that, you know, bodes well, you know, for the coming season. So I agree with you. Obviously, in Dallas, we had a different situation, and it's, you know, it's hard to get your head around exactly how you have a spread of that magnitude, you know, with, with people practicing all the best practices that they are. But it does show, you know, how important it is and how easily this can spread and why what we're doing and what we've told players to do and clubs to do are so important

because it shows, you know, that you make a couple bad decisions and all of a sudden, you have a situation that becomes untenable very quickly. So, you know, hopefully we'll use the Dallas situation as a cautionary lesson. All of our clubs will look at it that way, and maybe at the end of the day, if everybody recovers satisfactorily, it'll actually be a positive development in the sense of consciousness raising around the link. We'll let you go in a few minutes here, Bill. but just to follow up on the Dallas thing, and Gary referred to this during your media Zoom call

that the protocols aren't guidelines, they're not suggestions. They're rules, and teams really, they need to follow them, and the league will, you know, the league's going to watch very closely. When you look at what happened in Dallas, were there transgressions, were there protocols that weren't followed, and just as a follow-up to that, do you have a sense on when the stars might be able to, resume their schedule. We already know they're going to miss their first, I think, three games to

start with, but do you have a sense on when they might be able to get into the mix? So I'll answer the last question first. We do have a target for what we think is doable with respect to the stars. I don't want to jump the gum yet on that because, you know, they just opened their practice facility yesterday for the first time. So we'll see how the next couple days play out before we make any definitive announcements or decisions, quite frankly. But we do have kind of a tentative plan for how we get their games played and what that looks like. With respect to protocol violations, I will say we spent a lot of time on that. And by all accounts, there were some minor protocol breaches that people could point to.

Certainly none when you think about it should have led to the spread that we saw. So, you know, I think some people have some ideas as to what contributed to it and may have contributed greatly to it. And in some respects, it was something beyond the team's control. So look, we're going to use it as a learning kind of message. kind of message, cautionary tale, and we're going to move on. But obviously, we do take our protocols seriously, and, you know, violations of our protocols will be addressed. And quick last one.

I know you've got to run literally in a minute here, Bill, for another engagement. I've seen some talk of the NHL draft potentially being pushed back to December. You mentioned the development leagues. I mean, Canadian Junior hockey right now is at a standstill. Is that, I mean, I know you're just trying to. get through opening night first, but when do you start to look at that authority issue? Well, I think we start to look at it fairly quickly. Having said that, I can't tell you that there's any thought currently in delaying the draft in a material way.

I mean, we do have a 30-second franchise coming into the league this year and a 30-second franchise who's going to be relying on that draft. Right. Good point. I think it would be problematic, particularly for the Seattle Cracken, if we delayed the draft at December. Good point. That makes sense. Listen, Bill, thank you so much for coming and joining us on the eve of Puck Drop for the 2021 season. And here's staying healthy for you and your family.

And hopefully before this is all done, maybe the three of us will be able to be in a hockey rink at the same time and by the end of the season, maybe we'll get to that point. But thanks for coming and hanging out with us. And good luck the rest of the way. I would look forward to that. Thanks again for having me. And happy New Year to you and your listeners. All right, my friend, I can't, I mean, you alluded to spending time with Bill Daly back in normal days and the amount of work that goes into his daily routine. But I just can't imagine what he and the NHLPA have gone through for both return to play and now getting the season off to hopefully a smooth start to later today.

But also the fact that he shared with us that he and his family went through COVID-19 as well. To me, it just adds such a personal element to this. And, you know, we've had it in my family here too. it is, it, it just is, it's a very scary time. And to me, it just brings it home when, when people that you know are going through it or have gone through. Yeah. And I thought that, you know, Bill made such a great point about what do we know about disease or what do we not know. You know, why is it that in his case, thank goodness it was, you know, it sounds like it was pretty mild.

as for his words. But for other people, well, you know what the, you know, how bad it can be and what the death rate is around the world. It's just a, it's such a scary situation. And we're obviously happy for him and his family that they're fine. But, but, you know, I thought you had a great follow-up question, which was, you know, whether it gives him some perspective, because all he's been dealing with as deputy commissioner is the pandemic and the disease and not, and how it affects the business and how it affects the players and staff and everyone.

I can't help but think that, you know, living through that, it just adds it under layer to that for sure. All right, my friend, we got a couple of things to take care of before we wrap up this edition of two-man advantage, of course, under the umbrella of the athletic hockey show. I love that. There'll be a quiz for you. I'm going to ask you what the name of our show is at the end of this.

Just see you're paying attention. All right, so here's what we're going to do. I'm going to give you a division, and I want you to be like word association. So I'm going to give you a division. You tell me a player, a team. Hold on. I got to remember who's in each division. Yeah, you can.

And I'm not going to give you. In spite of perhaps angering the NHL and their sponsors, I will not be giving you the official sponsor name of the division. I'm just going to use the geography. But I want you to tell me what comes to mind for you. team player dynamic what you're looking forward to. Are you ready? It's sort of like a game show. Are you ready?

I'm good now. Okay. Now I have to remember them. Okay. East Division. That's the one with all the good teams on the East in the United States. Yeah. So Murderers Roe for sure.

Murderers Roe. The toughest division, toughest to make the playoffs. And we're going to have a team finish shift missed the playoffs that likely will have a higher point total than the team in the West and maybe even the North. And there'll be all Clydens of outcry. And it'll remind us of the 1980s when the least Red Wings made the playoffs for 47 points in the Norris. They had great series, though. They always played these epic playouts series.

Yeah. Yeah. No, the East is crazy. And it's interesting. I was listening to our friend Steve Culeas and his show, The Power Play. And Christopher Steeg was on, Scotty. Yeah. And they were asking for sort of surprise.

picks, he picked the flyers to miss the playoffs and actually to finish in the bottom third of the overall NHL standings. I was stunned by that. I mean, because I'm not so sure the flyers won't win that division, as tough as it is. But who knows? He could be right. I could be right. I mean, that's the fascinating part of opening night here is that everyone gets married to their narratives and their predictions and their sense that they got a pretty good feel about all the teams, right? And it's amazing within 48 to 72 hours how a lot changes. You know, this team's supposed to be terrible. They start 3 and 0 and now you see the revisionist history. And, and that's never been more true than I think this year in this unique season where, A, you're only

playing within your division. And B, some teams haven't played in 10 months, so those seven teams, like, what are they about right now? Yeah, no kidding. And a lot of offseason changes. But, you know, just the fact that you're playing only in your division really is going to have a dramatic impact, I think, on how the season plays out for a lot of these teams, no question. Yeah. Well, and I'll throw my two cents on the east. And, you know, it really, you know, really difficult time for the New Jersey Devils, Corey Crawford announcing his retirement before he was able to play a game for the devil.

So that's in that division. It's just going to be so tough for. Lindy Ruff and that young crew. So, you know, if you, if you slot them into seven or sorry, into eight in that division, I would go so far as to say, you know, Buffalo with Taylor Hall and and Jack Eichael, who is, you know, I think last year really showed he is a super star son. Yeah, just a really, so maybe Buffalo takes that step forward. The New York Rangers, just Alexis Lefrenier going to play his first game tomorrow night against the Islanders. Kandre Miller, I'm so excited to see how he fits into that Ranger Blue line.

And then the two young goaltenders, Jastirkin and Gorgiev, taking over for Henrik Lundquist, they're going to be in the mix. Pierre, I think there might be, it may even be, you know, sort of three really good teams who don't make the playoffs. And I'm with you.

I think Philly's a playoff team. But I think we're going to be surprised. And that's going to be part of the great drama of that division. So I'm with you. And the team, still no one talks about outside. of their market. And you can see why these fans have a chip on their shoulder. And I kind of love this fan base. But again, the Islanders not getting a lot of respect in the preseason predictions.

And it's like, I don't know, man, I'd have the best coaching league behind their bench and Barry Trots. And I don't know. Why would you bet against the Islanders? Like, have they not done enough now in the last couple of years where you know they're going to just grind it out and get in there? Oh, well. It may not. I'm just, but to me, they've earned my respect where instead of being like, well, let's see a bit more from them. Now it's the opposite for me. Now it's more like they've earned the spot where, if anything, let's let their play take them down from where I've now put them at a pedestal.

Because I just think the Islanders, they might play the best team game in the NHO. Yeah, no question. Their structure. Yep. All right. I'm going to give you another division. You did very well there, by the way. So we're going to go to another division.

West Division. Yes. I'd like to call the Pacific, but of course that makes no sense if you're St. Louis or Minnesota. I actually had to stop and think, is it the West or is it the Pacific? No, it's the West. Yeah. Is it like now, if I would have got my way and used the 80s division names, will we call this the Smythe? Yes, I think Smyth. I think I think I decided to call the Canadian Division of Smythe, though, when I wrote that call them months ago. But, you know, it's half the old Smyth with the California D. You know, it's the weakest of the four divisions for me. And again, that's not lagging them.

I mean, obviously there's a team that might win the Stanley Cup that's in it in the Colorado Avalanche and another team that could win the Stanley Cup in the Vegas Bowl of the Knights. And yet another team that's won a cup two years ago in St. Louis. So it's top heavy. The three California teams are in transition. I mean, the Kings and a clear rebuild. I think the ducks are a little ahead of that. and the sharks hope to bounce back, but they're younger.

But the three California teams are, you know, obviously have their work cut out against those top heavy teams I talked about. So what that division really comes down to for me, if you hand playoff spots now, you know, injuries aside to Colorado, Vegas and St. Louis, right? You would agree. Yes, yes. It comes down. The narrative of that division, which is intriguing is who gets the fourth spot.

You know, is it Minnesota, which finished strong last year? Is it a bounce back San Jose team? And I know that everyone is against me on this notion. I got a sneaking suspicion that the Jones Dubnick Coley-Tanem is going to be a fun story this year. That everyone's written those two guys off. They've done a lot of work this offseason. And I'm curious to see how those two guys combined there in San Jose. Yeah.

And Arizona, which was a playoff team, right? Or at least a play-in team. No, no, they were a playoff team. Played Colorado in the first round. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, you know, who finishes fourth is really the question, right?

Yeah, no, I'm with you. And I think, I mean, it's going to be fascinating to see, you know, and I don't know how we're going to work awards, voting. So who's your pick for fourth? Well, I would, I think it's, I think it's Arizona and Minnesota. I don't, I think it's O for California two years in a row. I just, I'm with you. I think San Jose's the, I'm not. not sure. I don't think the Kings or the Ducks are quite there. He had a lot of youth on both

those teams and I just don't think they're quite there. But I think Arizona's going to be interesting because their goal tennis is Solow with Darcy Kumper and Antirontah. But Minnesota, that blue line's still really good. Yeah. So I'm with you. But I think it's going to be fascinating. That battle to win the West Division is going to be an enormous one. Listen, hey, it's all on paper. But what's the benefit? What's the benefit if you're St. Louis, Colorado, or Vegas of finishing first and not having to play one of those other two teams in the first round, because, of course, it's going to be one, four, two, three in the division, to win that division is absolutely paramount because in theory it gives you a much easier path into the second round and then who knows.

So I think it's, yeah, I think the dominoes there are going to be fascinating to see how they fall. So good golf. So I'm picking the shirts to finish fourth and then a mild upset. Yeah. I like Minnesota, but then I looked at who they had playing center and then I liked them less. and I think Arizona's going backwards. I think overall they're going forward. I really like the Bill Armstrong,

hire as GM. I love that Shane Don is back with the organization. Agreed. Yeah. That was a no-brainer of the year. But I think they took a step back in the interview here. Yeah. I don't think that's a very good team.

I think Rick Tocket coached the hell out of them last year. They got great goal attending. But I don't think they can score. And I think there's, again, there's, you know, there's always sort of uncertainty around that franchise. Hopefully the shame don't hire will help stabilize things there. Yeah, good point. All right.

All right. We're going to take a final break. Then we're going to go back to the other two divisions. And then we will... I know who you're keeping for last, you know. I know who you keep it. Well, hey, I don't know that you do, though. It's going to be a trick.

All right. So far, you're doing very well at this. I'm very proud of you. And so word association. Central Division. First of all, I don't appreciate your patronizing of me. Okay? Like, you should be used to it by now.

Which division did you give me now? See, there you go. Central. Central. I knew you were going to keep the Alcanian division for last. Central, a bit like the West to me is top heavy, but a bit deeper. You know, and it's hard not to love Tampa at the top, but I'm going to give you my upset division winner for the Central this year. Carolina Hurricanes is who I'm picking to win that division.

I think with Tampa, it's not a concern with them. I mean, I think they've got a very good shot of defending their championship, but I think it's more like, does winning the division matter that much to us? We just won the cup. You know what I mean? Like sort of that mental state. Yeah, for sure. So a cup hangar or whatever you want to call it.

So I'll go Carolina at Tampa. I think we saw that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Don't interrupt. Do not interrupt what I'm doing predictions that are always wrong. I'm going to go Carolina, Tampa at the top. And then it's fascinating, right? I mean, Dallas coming off to Cup final, but they got injuries. And you love that group. I mean, I just, I could watch me.

He's going to play all night and just, that'd be the only player I'd watch every night. But I think they're in for a real hangover year. I think the stars are, you know, now obviously off the ice with the COVID situation. Yeah. I think the stars, that could be one of the. big storylines. Do they go in for a bit of a drop here? Chicago and Detroit will be at the bottom. You know, Columbus, so here's what I'm going to tell you is I think Columbus makes it as a

fourth team. I think they're the team that players keep wanting to lead, but they just keep getting in and they'll probably knock off someone big. I don't know. It's just the blue jackets are this great story of why does no one want to play there and why do they just keep finding ways to win? And, you know, I love the Corporate Salomers. They can stand them in goal. But, yeah, how does the parallel of Dubois trade request affect the season or not? Don't you think if there's any team that can deal with it?

It's Nick Foligno and that gang? Like, you know, like Panarin and Brobroski and what a gong show that was that year. Well, then, of course, they go out and beat 62 win lightning, 62 in Tampa Bay Lightning that year with all those distractions. Last year they beat the leaves. So I know, I think that Columbus, everyone's writing them off because, you know, can they score goals, their star standard wants out, and I just think they'll go out and surprise. So this will come as no surprise to you because, you know, I get a little stock on me, but I have picked the Carolina Hurricanes. I didn't even think we did divisional picks.

And I don't know whether they'll win the division. I picked them to win the Stanley Cup, my friend. Oh, boy. That team is... That is Stockholm, though, with you. Like, to be fair, every team that you spent time behind the scenes with you, you picked a win the cup. No, I'm just saying, that's your calling card. That's right.

And because I spend some time with Alexei Lefrenia, I'm going to pick the Rangers to go to the finals. No, I, I'm just kidding on that part. But I think I do think that the Rangers are going to be a juggernaut before too long. There's going to be a handful. Yeah, exactly. But I do like the Keynes a lot. I just, I'm fascinated to see what happens with Rod Brindamore. And as you know, I was there last season and Rod and I talked about, you know, his future. And you've written about this.

He's one of a handful of coaches. We know that Jeremy Colleton has just signed an extension with the Chicago Blackhawks. But I think are there five more coaches who are in a contract year now? Is that right? So you got Robbrennamore. You want me to name them? If you want. I could name them.

Then be quiet for a second. So you got Robbrennamore. Travis Green, John Tortorello, Rick Tocket, Jeff Blasher. Right. And I'm, I think they're, you know, it's going to be interesting to see how I think we'll see a number of those sign extensions as time goes along here. But I'm curious to see what happens with Rod Ringgne. Because he and I spoke last year because, yeah, well, and he's, he made it.

He said at the time, listen, I'm not going to be a guy who goes, you know, around. the league, right? I mean, he's, I think he felt that he was a coach, but he was a coach for one team, the Carolina Hurricanes. And I, I understand that. I hope the organization doesn't try and take advantage of that loyalty by, you know, taking advantage of him financially, because that would be a lousy thing to do. But I do know this. People around the NHL, like, he's a hell of a coach. And it's, he's not just a hell of a coach of the Carolina Hurricanes. And I am, I would, I'd be wagering a lot of money that if things do go a bit sideways with the hurricanes in terms of a contract negotiation, there will be teams lining up to try and get Rod Brindamor to come and coach

their team. So I'm curious to see how that unfold. Do you think that's fair? Yeah, no, it is interesting. And I quoted Hurricane's owner Tom Dunn and I brought up the six coaches about a month or so ago in a notebook in a rumblings for the athletic. And I quoted Tom Dunn and saying that 100% Rob Bryndmore would be taken care of that he would be signed. So that's the owner. If I had to rank the five remaining coaches on expiring deals about the certainty or not of them getting re-sign, I would have Travis Green and Brindamore at the top of definitely getting extensions at some point over the next several months.

And then I think John Tortorell is probably a 60-40. I mean, they love him in Columbus, but it's also been there a while. And so let's see how this plays out with Dubois and everything else. I'm just saying, so you got to sort of, I think he gets re-signed as long as he's still happy there. And I think the Jackets management really likes him, but I don't want to give it the 100% treatment. And then I think, you know, Rick Tocke, I just, who I think you agree is a terrific coach. But he gets inherited. by his new GM, right?

So that's always an interesting situation. Now, maybe it turns out that as they get to know each other this year, that they really hit it off and they want him to stick around. But it's not just about whether Bill Armstrong wants to keep Rick Tocking around. I think you have to ask the question. Does Rick Talk has had enough of Arizona? I don't know. I'm not saying he has.

I'm just saying that's a two-way street to me that one. And then finally, I think with Jeff Lashel, who's been there a while in Detroit, the wings are in total rebuild, you know, Does he survive, I guess, this rebuilding phase? I think that's fair, right? Yeah. So that's how I would rank. Yeah, no, and I think you're right on with that.

All right. We're going to do the final division before we close out this edition of Two Man Advantage under the Athletic Hockey Show. The North. I have written it as the O Canada, like O, like just an O, and then Canada. So clever. And the we are, we are, I think that was a book by Mordecai Rickler back in the day. Oh, the, we are the north, because I think that was a Raptors thing.

But for our purposes, the north. What, what comes to mind? What's word association north division? Total grind. That's two words. Yeah. Because I'll tell you what. That's good enough.

I'll tell you what's hosting to me about, about this division is that, um, Even though most people, I did a poll of a lot of the U.S. team executives and coaches about a month ago, if you remember. And then Frank Sarajevoi did one this week. And our polls showed up with the same aggregate ranking with Toronto winning it all by, I think Montreal, some version of that. And the only thing I will tell you, and I'm not disagreeing with that ranking, is that for a division that I see is completely full of parity, other than rebuilding Ottawa. Who may surprise, by the way. But you got six scenes.

Like if I told you any of the six other Canadian teams were going to win the division, would you be like, well, there's no way that's going to happen? No, no, I totally agree. Could be Winnipeg. Could be Evanton. And yet when you poll hockey people, beliefs always went out, which is interesting. Now, Montreal's gotten a few votes. Calgary's got a few votes.

Here's the other thing I will tell you. I'm amazed at how people have downgraded the Vancouver Canucks in these surveys. I'm not saying Vancouver's going to win the division, But, okay, they lose Jacob Markstrom, who was arguably their MVP the last two years. I'm not denying that. He masked a lot of their defensive deficiencies by incredible goaltending, and now he's gone. But I believe in Fantra Demko. I think Brayden Holby was a great security blanket.

Will their goaltending be as good? No, I think it'll be a smidge below. But the idea that, you know, isn't Nate Schmidt an upgrade over Chris Tannup? on defense. They get Travis Hammondick for a song off the PTO at 1.25 million. So you got Hammondick starting with Quinn Hughes. You got Nate Schmidt with Edler. Myers is on your third pairing.

So I don't know. Like I think people, a narrative took hold in the first day of free agency that the Canucks were getting raided. And then it seems like it just stayed there, even though since then the Caducs go out and steal Nate Schmidt because Vegas is cap issues. You know, they get Hamannick for nothing. I think the Canucks are going to be right there battling for a playoff spot.

I do not see them regressing in my mind. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you. So here's just what amazes me, not just that people really love Toronto to win that division, but when we did our athletic predictions, and we had predictions for who always,

win the Stanley Cup and I can't remember how many different teams were named. Only one North Division team got a vote. And I think it was just one vote and it was Toronto. And that's what's really surprised me because I'm with you. I think all the six of those teams outside of Ottawa, you can make a case for them to be in the playoffs. You can see a way that they could be a team that could win a round or two or whatever it is. One of those teams is going to the final four, right?

That's how it's set up. And yet no one, none of the athletic writers believe that they don't believe in them. And I was surprised by that because I think Montreal, I think Mark, like, listen, Mark Berzeman's pushed all his chips in. And it's going to be fascinating to see, you know, Josh Anderson, that contract, what's going to happen there. But I love, that's a heart, you know, think about the additions there with Tyler Tofoli. It's a deepest team. It's a deepest team that have had in the Mark Berzman era. There's no question.

Yeah, for sure. So let me ask a question. Were you surprised? Like I think I love that division. And yet there seems to be very little support for, well, yeah, it's really going to be fun division to watch. You know, the Canadians having their toy up on the north side of the border. But no one believes that they can run the table or can be a true cup contender. I'm surprised by that.

Yeah. And I think the best way to put it is that, you know, when you look at, even though the Leafs, almost win every single poll that you see of the North Division. When you see a lot of people rank their top 10 teams in the NHL overall, the Leafs rarely crack the top five. So I think what you have is that the All Canadian Division has six playoff-worthy teams, six very good teams, but no great ones. Now, the Leafs are knocking on the door.

The Leafs have a chance to be great. But I think that's what you have, is that you have these six teams that are all going to have their moments here this year. And again, I can make the case for all six to get in that top four of their division. And again, the senators are going to be fun to me. I mean, they still, that blue line is trouble. But, you know, Matt Murray and goal, so much young talent up front. I can't wait to watch Tim Stolzi play. But, you know, when you're told you're no good and you have no chance and everyone's picked you to be last,

in the all-Canadian division with all eyes in this country watching, that can do wonders. DJ Smith will walk in that room and said, people are laughing at us. You know, the pure natural emotion of playing like you're scared, it'll be interesting to see how the senators respond. Again, I'm not,

I still have them seven. I'm just saying, I don't think they're going to be pushovers. I mean, I mean, they've got some young, you know, if the owner can stay out of the way,

this team is actually on the way to, the being so. Well, and I thought the, I thought the additions of guys like Derek Stepan and of getting Dadanoff from Florida, there are players there that will, you know, carry some load and be important figures in that dressing room. And I'm, listen, I think DJ Smith is going to be a great NHL coach. I think he's already taken significant strides with a, with a team that wasn't very good when he took over there. And I'm with you. I don't see them. They're not going anywhere, but. I don't think, but they are going to make life miserable on most nights for whoever they play.

And I think that's, they're going to learn a lot this season. And I don't think they're very far from being around as long as Matt Murray can sort of refine his mojo. I think they're a team that could trend very quickly back into a playoff spot once we get back to normal. Should we do our cup picks? So you did Carolina. All right. I'll give you.

And I, I hate that I'm with the group thinking because I usually not a group think guy. but I'm going to Colorado. It's their time. And that was my piece today, by the way, for people listening. I know. It was a great piece. Nice chat with Joe Sackick. Yeah.

It is their time. I think it's their time. Yeah. Well, I think it's hard to go against them. That division, though, I'll tell you this. I'm not going to make a prediction on a finalist. I got the team you cannot sleep on, and people have, our voters sort of reflected this. I just love what Doug Armstrong has done with the blues.

Like, I really think Tori Cruz is going to make, he's going to fill. the Alex Petrangelo void. Different player, he's going to fill that void. And Mike Hoffman, you know, with Teresenko out for what is expected to be most of the regular season, if not all of it, that Mike Hoffman signing is terrific. And I think those two guys are going to rejuvenate a Blues team that look a little aimless in the playoffs. And I think they're going to come back with a vengeance. And I don't, I know with Vegas and Colorado, it's going to be a tremendous battle for.

for that top spot, but the blues are going to be there right to the end. I only have one question. And yes, I agree with everything you just said to Doug Armstrong at a fabulous offseason. Which Jordan Bittington do we get? Well, I think that's a fair question. You can't have playoff Jordan Binnington or that won't be very good. And here's the other thing. I think there are going to be, like I'm curious, like,

I think there's going to be movement. The trade deadline is going to be way, it's going to be different because of the flat cap and COVID and who knows what the border looks like. like by April 12th. That's deadline, right? April 12th. So I don't know. But you're right.

That's an excellent question. But I think there could be some goalies on the move. I just think there could be. And I don't think Doug Armstrong will be shy to make a move. I know that losing Jake Allen, and again, with sort of the yin and yang, the loss of Jake Allen is going to be significant for the blues. and I think the addition of Jake Allen from Montreal, I think that team could go to a Stanley Cup line. And they could definitely go to the final four.

I just, I love that depth there. All right. So you gave me Colorado. I've got Carolina. See how it turns out. Okay, we mentioned the athletic hockey show. It's a new thing. And the athletic hockey show with our new,

well, he's our longtime pal, but our new colleague Ian Mendez and Haley Salvos. had they had their successful debut on Monday. Nice job. Ian Mendez returns with another edition on Thursday. We're going to get a lot of value out of Ian Mendez, obviously. Another edition on Thursday with Down Goes Brown, Sean McIndow, very nice. Corey Prawnman, the Athletics Prospect writer.

I just wish he was more productive, Corey. He needs to be doing more work. He joins Craig Custin's this week on the full 60 for the latest in the prospect series at the athletic. Oh, they still got that full 60 going, eh? Yeah. Oh, yeah. They get to do whatever they want.

It's Craig Show. He's not under the umbrella. He didn't have to change his name. And former Wild head coach Bruce Boudreau helps Mike Russo preview the Minnesota Wild season. I would love to see that because, of course, a year ago, Bruce was still coaching the Wild. With this week's edition of Straight from the Source at the Athletic. The Athletic Hockey Show, two-man advantage edition, check out our comments section for each podcast episode at The Athletic app

and rate and subscribe to The Athletic Show on Apple. If you aren't a subscriber, go to theathletic.com slash hockey show and receive a subscription for just $3.99 per month. That is almost nothing. and my friend, you were outstanding today. I'm not patronizing you. I thought you were very good today. And you've adjusted nicely to the new naming.

Good on you, my friend. And you know what? We're going to do it again next week. I had a good sleep. I was ready. You were a great leader. I love it. Right on.

Right on.