The Athletic Hockey Show - Bill Daly on Tom Wilson, NYR and Virtanen. McDavid's drive to 100, Norris Trophy vote and Seguin returns to the Stars.

Episode Date: May 5, 2021

Bill Daly, the deputy commissioner of the NHL joins Scott and Pierre on the Two Man Advantage edition of the Athletic Hockey show to discuss the New York Rangers strong statement on George Parros, and Tom Wilson's actions at MSG on Monday night which did not result in suspension.Daly also addresses the Jake Virtanen case in Vancouver, if the Canucks will complete their entire regular season schedule and how the NHL will manage welcoming fans back into arenas in the United States.Bill also shares plans for the playoffs, and loosening lockdown protocol for players who have been vaccinated in the United States. Finally, Bill provides an update on the NHL's involvement at the Beijing Olympics in 2022. Scott and Pierre take a look at an eventful few days for the Washington Capitals, Tyler Seguin's return to the Dallas Stars and Connor McDavid's historic season, ahead of another edition of 'Ask the Dorks'. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, everybody, Scott Burnside back for another edition of Two Man Advantage, the podcast, part of the athletic hockey show network. I like to say that makes it sound really important, which of course it is. Pierre Lebrun, I just wish there was stuff going on, you know, in this period as we lead into the place. Just wish there was stuff. Oh, yeah, no, it's been. It has been an unbelievable week, really. Once again, crazy stuff happening. We're going to talk about all of it.

And on top of that, what a great, a good, great timing. And I throw kudos to you, of course. Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly is going to join us on later on this podcast and lots to discuss from the league perspective. But let's start. But we should point out that was prearranged. So he's not joining us. He's not joining us because of what happened with Tom Wilson, but despite, I guess, I should point out. Well, yes, that's a very good point.

Yes, the timing is everything. And again, you had talked to Bill and he'd agreed to come on and chat with us, certainly before the Bruhaha at Madison Square Garden Monday evening involving Tom Wilson, no stranger to controversy, controversial acts on the ice. And Pavel Buccinovich and Artemi Panarin, of course, are at the end result. of the skirmish, Artemmy Panarin will not play in any of the Rangers final three games. And as the scheduling gods would have it, one of those games this evening, after you and I are done taping this, and after Bill joins us, the Capitals and Rangers will go back at it again.

And, of course, one of the great, you know, one of the main parts of this story is that Department of Player Safety ruling that there would be no supplemental discipline in, terms of a suspension, but that Tom Wilson would be handed a $5,000 fine maximum allowed under the CBA. Pierre, I'm curious what you, when you first saw what had unfolded at Madison Square Garden, what comes to mind for you? What was your first reaction to it? Well, I was holding my breath when I saw Panarin's headline on the ice. Thank goodness that wasn't more serious. That's the first thing I thought of. I'm not surprised that Tom Wilson wasn't suspended. I mean, I thought he, I was hoping there was a way for player safety to just say, hey, this guy's dangerous and retired of him. And here you go. You're out for the rest of the

previous season, at least, if not more. But I didn't think that would happen just based on the fact that there is no precedent for suspending a player for ragdolling a player, to be honest. Yeah. It actually happens a lot. It's just that this happens to be a player that has a long rap sheet. And, you know, it, it's a... And it's fascinating to me to see the polarizing reaction to it. It really is seemingly a 50-50 situation, right? There are so many people who feel that, you know, Panarin went in there and, you know, don't poke the bear and it is what it is. And of course, you know, a lot of us that just don't want to see that kind of play ever again in the game.

And I mean, I could go on forever. Like, like, I struggle with getting too invested in this incident because you know all I feel about fighting in general and violence in the game. Like, are we really really going to overreact to this one incident when I don't think there should be any fighting in hockey to begin with, which I've said for years? Right. You know what I mean? It's like, let's talk about the scab on your shoulder when when you're actually dealing with a life-threatening disease. It's just hard for me. A lot of the reactions have been over the top on both sides of this when I think we're not having the actual conversation we should be having.

Yeah. That goes way beyond this. Yeah. No, and I think that's, again, it's so hard to find perspective on this. And this is part of the world we live in with social media is that there is no really no room for nuance or, well, you know, what's the mitigating factor? and really, you know, and I'm with you. And I'm going to get to a question. But I think, you know, for me, the obvious thing is, oh, my God, like how it could have been so much worse.

And the people I talk to, coaches and executives, and that really is the underlying thing. Oh, my gosh. It could have been so much worse, right? I mean, Panarin's helmet comes off in the melee. And then, as you point out, you know, the potential for him to go head first into the ice, I don't even like to think about it because it just could have been so, so much. worse. But I'm curious, in the people that you talk to and given how, you know, listen, you're as connected as anyone in the game, right? I'm not, I'm not blowing smoke. But I'm curious,

were there things that surprised you in the aftermath when you were talking to people or people reached out to you? Were the things you were like, oh, okay, I didn't, I'm surprised that people feel this way or this person felt that way? Like, were there things that surprised you in the aftermath in your discourse with people in the game? I guess what I would say is that I'm surprised that there was very little in between sentiment. Like, in other words, I had a lot of former players reach out and say that is not a suspension. That is a run-on-the-mill scrum moment. Thank God, Benerrin's okay, but there's no way that should be a suspension.

And then I had other people in the game who was like, the ranges deserve to be angry. I would be too. So complete, again, polarizing. and where I feel like there's just plenty of room to be in the middle of this and look at all this. Yeah, it's and certainly the Ranger's statement is probably what's going to be remembered way longer than the actual incident in many ways. I mean, that is some kind of statement. And we'll see what the fallout is for that. And obviously we'll ask Bill Daly about the Ranger statement because the league, as we tape this here, still hasn't responded to it.

And, of course, I wasn't burying the lead necessarily, but the fact that the Rangers didn't release a statement Monday or, sorry, Tuesday evening, basically expressing their displeasure with the fact that Tom Wilson was not suspended indefinitely, but taking an even step further and suggesting that the head of the Department of Player of Safety, George Peros, former player, of course, was unfit for his post and that he should be relieved of his duty. So as you mentioned, Pierre, we will certainly be asking Bill Daly about the Lee's reaction to that. So we'll table that for a little bit later in the podcast. And so we this is one of those podcasts. We would probably talk for about three hours with all the stuff that has gone on. But what a crazy 24 hours for the Washington Capitals. Even leading up to the Tom Wilson incident, this is a capital team that was once. again in the news and start with our heartfelt condolences to T.J. O'Shee, whose father Tim

passed away. And so he had left the team for personal reasons, obviously. And just as aside, having spent some time talking to Tim Oshy in the past and talking to T.J. O'Shey about his father's battle with Alzheimer's. Like what? In that moment when he's on the ice with T.J. after winning the Cup in 18, man, it's just a moment forever. And so condolences to T.J. Oshie and his family as they go through this. But also the fact that of Genie Kuznetsov and Ilya Samsonov were disciplined by a team with a coaching staff, Peter Laviolett and obviously Brian McClellan, GM, for being late to a team function, not available to the game. Alex Oveshing comes back from injury. Maybe he came back too early.

last, I think one shift. I think he played less than a minute. And is once again injured. I talked to somebody close to the capitals yesterday, and they were like, there is a lot of noise going on around this team. And I think that's probably putting it mildly. Yeah. And, you know, I stumbled across some info.

And as I mentioned on insider trading, Scotty, I think the caps would listen on trade offers for Kuznetsoff after this season. I think that's where that's at, quite simply. So, I mean, usually that would be a pretty big story to put out there, but it got a little buried by the Tom Wilson stuff and the Rangers. But I think the caps would absolutely listen on, on Gennikuznet's off coming as off. He's got four more years on his deal at 7.8 million A.A.V. So in a flat cap environment, not the easiest deal to move, but also a guy that was spectacular in the 2018 playoffs and is still a super talented player. So we'll see where this goes.

And as I like to say, the playoffs have a way of sometimes changing minds and changing the narrative. So, you know, if he's the, if the old Kuznetsoff resurfaces in these playoffs, you know, maybe there's, that changes things. But at the moment, I think the caps are as an organization. I get the sense or a bit irritated with him. Well, I mean, it's such a, I mean, timing is everything, right? And here we are. We're a little more than a week. Let's call it 10 days from the start of the playoffs. You know, the capitals are still very much in the hunt to win the East Division, have home ice advantage maybe through the first couple of rounds. But, you know, like as you and I are speaking, they get two games in hand, two points behind Pittsburgh.

But, you know, this is a team that in a very, very tight competitive division, I got to think these are the last kinds of things that you want going on around your team as you. And this is a team that has, you know, it's fallen flat in the playoffs the last two years, right? After winning the Cup in 18, they bounced in the first round by Carolina, looked just dreadful in losing to the Islanders in the first round in the bubble in Toronto last summer. And I really have felt for most of the season that with Peter Lavio let there, that this was a Caps team that, you know, was getting up off the mat, that they'd rediscovered their swagger and maybe understood the urgency with Alex Ovechkin, you know, trending towards the end of his career, Nicholas Baxter, you know, that core of players. But this is, this is real problematic, I think. And if things don't go well in the playoffs, I think your point is the next one. I think the offseason will be fascinating for what this, you know, what lies ahead for this Caps team. Yeah.

And again, that's why they hired Peter Laivolette. I mean, part of the approach in the offseason and making the coaching change was to bring in a firmer hand. Let's be honest, that that's what this was about. And I think Peter LaVuette has done that. But clearly, perhaps the message hasn't gotten through to everyone. in that dressing room. No question. All right.

What else? There's so much stuff going on. I get to tell you. I mean, listen, the thing that the thing that, you know, is too bad in all this is that this should have been the week. The only thing we're talking about is Connor McDavid. Ah, yes. And the fact that, you know, this Tom Wilson thing, you know, I'm looking at ESPN and some other U.S. shows yesterday. and it's Tom Wilson galore and not a single mention of Connor McDavid's historical season.

Historical. Yeah. I mean, the fact that this guy may get, I mean, I think it's almost a done deal now, he's got 93 points in 51 games. Like, how ridiculous is that in today's game? And that should be the only thing we're talking about this week, to be honest. And that's that's what's crappy. Yeah, about the news cycle here in the last couple of days.

That's right. And that was you were to, you took the words literally out of my mouth. That there is, you know, the story. The story is Connor McDavid. And the fact that he, like, is, you know, I hate to jinx him now, but, I mean, it seems like he will cross that hundred point threshold in this 56 game schedule and just shows no signs of slowing down.

I thought, you know, to me, it's always fact. When you hear from people who were the greatest of the great, and you had a chance to talk to Wayne Gretzky about Connor McDavid. And I always think that that helps to illustrate things a little bit, you know, puts it in the best context possible. When you hear from a guy like Wayne Gretzky about something like this, because, you know, this is, this is a magical, it's magical in a time when we're pretty short on magic, this has been great theater and great drama. Were you surprised at all by what Wayne Gretzky had to say about Connor McDavid? Wasn't surprised, and I hope that my piece did it justice, but literally you could hear the amazement in Wayne's voice when he was talking about this. Like, he sounded like the rest of us, but here's the guy, Wayne Gretzky, the all-time leading point getter in the NHL, the greatest player ever. He owns eight of the ten greatest offensive seasons in the history of where.

books, and you could hear in his voice going, whoa, this is remarkable. And so if that doesn't grab your attention about what Connor McDavid is doing, then I'm sorry. Because it really is amazing. I honestly never thought for the rest of our careers that we would see this kind of production from a superstar again. That, you know, nearly two points a game, that was just. stuff from the 80s and 90s, right? And, you know, and also from two of the greatest players ever in Lemieux, Gretzky.

But I just felt we were just a game that changed. The goalies are, you know, I just didn't think we were going to see it again. And I think that's part of the astonishment here is that Connor McDavid is doing this at a time when the goaltending's never been better, the system play, you know, he's got a target on his back, and he just keeps finding away. And I go back to a game recently where Montreal was in Edmonton and the Habs have been the one team that have actually mitigated a bit of McDavid's effectiveness this year. And Philip Dino deserves credit for that. But and the narrative it started to build up.

You know, McDavid struggles against the Habs. And I was working that game for TSN and you just knew. He was like, here it comes. And he scored one of the great goals of the year where he basically. goes end to end and splits to D and scores an unreal goal and on his weight, I think three points that night against the half. So enough with that narrative. But he had been kind of held down by them until then. And my point is that his will, he can will himself to these nights. And he's done so with so much consistency. It just takes your breath away to see what he's doing here. It's truly one of

the great, great seasons in NHL history. And I noticed some of the comments underneath my column with Gretzky were that, well, yeah, he's doing it in the North Division. Enough. Go away. Like, come on. Really? Like, that's going to be the common?

Jeez, Louise. You Canadians are so sensitive. I don't know what it is. No, but I mean, why would you want to take away from what the best player in the world is doing? Come on. No. And so I want to, you have a. great vantage point.

I'm not sure who I'm most concerned about. Montreal is a keep winning and Cole Cawfield continues to make an immediate impact, the collegiate star joining the Havs, scoring two straight overtime winners. Or am I more concerned about the Winnipeg Jets, who as you and I speak, have inconceivably lost seven straight games, and now those two teams are tied at 57 points. They played 51 games each. buddy at some point listen this Montreal

Toronto series we've been talking about since oh 1979 I was going to say since 1979 it's all of a sudden in jeopardy and I'm not on for it I've been I have been I've penciled in that Habsley first round series for weeks and weeks now

and now all of a sudden it's in jeopardy is it let me ask it there's a question do you believe it's in jeopardy or do you think that the Jets actually I talked to an executive the other day who said, listen, Jets aren't playing as bad as their record suggests. They were better in Ottawa the other night. You know, they haven't got any puck clock. They're going to start to win games. But, geez, they have made it much closer than it should be.

I still think the Jets end up third. And that's exactly it. I was watching that Senator's game yet tonight. And Winnipeg dominated. I mean, the slot shots after two periods, I think we're like 152 for Winnipeg. You know, they just one of those. nights. And so I think they've turned the corner. They were playing pretty darn lousy for a big stretch of the street, but I think they've

turned the corner. I think they're going to start winning games here. You know, the advantage point that interests me, since we just talked about it, is that Edmonton has dominated Winnipeg all year, but it's just been so-so against the haves. And so I think the others are probably sitting back there. Of course, no one ever admits any of this, but my guess is Edmonton would rather play Winnipeg, by the way. You know, and I don't know how the Leifes would feel in this. I mean, the Leifes still have the upper hand in the season series with the abs,

even though they lost the other night to Montreal. So I think the Leaves are probably comfortable with either matchup. I mean, they just destroyed Winnipeg, right? The Leaves a couple of games ago. Yeah. And back-to-backs about a week ago. So I don't think the least really care. I mean, I guess at the end of the day, though, you know,

that, you know, that HABs matchup has other intangibles involved in it, if you're the Leafs, for sure. There's no question about it. And, you know, we've talked about this, but I think that Montreal team is actually better built for the playoffs, and it is for the wide open, regular season brand of hockey that the North has delivered this year. I think the HABs are kind of like a fish out of water in this division that way.

And come to playoffs, that kind of goes away. I mean, it becomes a different game, as we know, fewer boundaries and more of a grind. I think that actually sets up better for Montreal in terms of the way they're built than most teams in that division. But, you know, I could be wrong, but I do feel this is the year the Leafs, regardless of who they play, finally win a playoff series. You put the jinx right on, my man.

My man, and we're going to start to find out, well, you know, 10 days, two weeks. We'll try and figure out the playhouse schedules when we move along. All right. Before we get to Bill Daly and take our first break, a couple of things I want to hit on. I got to tell you, it's been, you know, I've watched very closely the whole Central Division playoff race, which really is the only playoff race left, right? It's, with all due respect, Arizona and the West and, you know, Calgary. The only race that is still a real race is the race for fourth place in the Central Division

and crushing overtime loss for the down. Dallas Stars to Nashville on Saturday night just a, you know, they just needed, they needed to win. But what an inspirational run for the Stars as a whole, given their schedule and how they started the season with the outbreak. But how great was it to see Tyler Sagan come back? And our man, Saad Yusuf, what a great job he did in chronicling Tyler Sagan's journey through hip surgery and multiple other related surgeries to get back on the ice, scored a goal in this first game back. I got to tell you, to me, it's one of those things. I don't see how the stars can actually make it. But man, what an inspirational story and how great

was it to see Tyler Sagan on the ice for the first time since game six of the Stanley Cup final? Yeah, I really was. And, you know, good for sort of Tyler Sagan's piece of mind, I would imagine, to be able to play some games before he's going to be off again for a long stretch, right? I mean, you wouldn't have wanted to go a year and a half without playing. So, you know, the NHL is penciled October 12 tentatively as their start date for next season. But I got to think just, you know, for peace of mind, that this is, the return is so important for a player of Tyler Second's stature to be able to go into the off season. If the stars don't come back, let's not totally write them off. But if this is it here over the next week, that he knows that, you know, he knows how he felt and he came back and he can work off that for his offseason.

Yeah, good stuff. All right. Before we go to the break, I want to give you credit. And I always do, as you know, my friend. But I really enjoyed your polling of NHL coaches about the Norris Trophy boating. And I'm curious, hey, I want to give you credit for it. But I was curious whether there were things that sort of surprised you about what coaches. were saying about the Norris because there is, I think there's a lot of, you know, it's been a

fascinating discussion because of the divisional play and because, you know, sort of maybe whether it's analytics or just the eye test, and maybe Victor Hadman, you know, has been, has fallen back to the pack a little bit in terms of NHL elite defensemen this season. Were the things that surprised you about what coaches were telling you about how they viewed the Norris race and understanding that it's the writers, you and I and others, who will vote on the Norris, not the coaches. Yeah, so listen, always I love talking to coaches as I go through my different award ballots every year. But in this case, I decide to go all the way and actually make a piece out of it for the Norris.

And, you know, I don't know if I was surprised, but that was quite a landslide for Victor Hedman. If people should go check out the detailed poll that I, as I detail all the ballots. It was really one side of 22 first place votes out of the 31 coaches. And kudos to the coaches, by the way, all 31 got back to me. And some of them admitted that they gave him the first place vote, even though they know he's not having his greatest season ever. But I think the only thing you can deduce from that is that that's where they think he is still above everyone else. Right. Right.

So that's fascinating. You know, and I do think what hurt Adam Fox, who finished second in the polling and pretty strong showing for Adam Fox, probably I think what heard him is what may hurt him in the PHWA official voting is that some people are uncomfortable giving a first place vote to a guy who's on a non-playoff team. That's just reality. But still a strong showing and I think that coaches around the league, a lot of them, I mean, let's see here, 21 of the 31 coaches had him somewhere on their ballot. So that's pretty predominant and good for Adam Fox.

I guess you say surprise. I'm not surprised that, I mean, Shea Theodore, if you watch Vegas, you know, dynamic he is. But then I think for sure that every coach in the league was staying up to watch Vegas and paying attention, you know, Che Theodore was on 13 of the ballots. Yeah. Right. And so, you know, his stock has really risen over the last couple of years.

And I was pleased for him that he had such a prominent place in this poll. Kiel McCar, no surprise there. So McCar and Theodore were basically really close for third in this poll. Hedman Fox and then McCarthy at all really, really close. And yeah, it's interesting. I mean, these are the guys, NHL coaches that plan for D for matchups that are so aware of them. Now, I will certainly underline the fact that a lot of the coaches were quick to mention to me, this is a hard thing because I'm coaching within my division this year.

I don't get to see all these guys. So, you know, but it's interesting. A lot of them still have guys from other divisions on their ballot. So they obviously, you know, obviously watch other games. They talked to other people. So it was a pretty good cross-section when I got the ballast in. Yeah. And, you know, it'll be interesting when the actual official voting happens with the selected members of the PHWA, how it manifests itself compared to the coaches here.

It is really, I mean, the whole process is going to be fascinating, whether it's, you know, our voting for the major awards, whether the broadcasters who vote for Jack Adams and the GMs. and the GMs who vote for the Vezina. I did a Q&A with Daryl, Rayzer Ray, from the Dallas Stars. He was terrific. We had a great long chat, so that'll be out later this week as well. And we were talking about Jason Robertson of the Stars and Carol Caprazoff, of course, of Minnesota Wild, who are sort of neck and neck in the rookie of the year race. And so I asked him what he thought, and he said the exact same thing that you did

And what your coaches told you is that, you know, he's and the broadcasters vote on Jack Adams. He says, you know, I've seen seven different coaches, well, eight counting Rick Bonas in Dallas. But, you know, that's the challenge when all of us as a voting group sit down to look at these, at these important awards. You know, for lots of people who cover one team or our broadcaster for one team or GM of one team, it really, it is going to be a challenge. Jen's going to require a lot of homework, I think, in terms of... Totally, and that's why, you know, obviously I've already done it with the Norris, but I'm going to want to talk to voices for pretty much every team in the league. I want to get a wide range of opinions before I fill up my ballot.

And it's still not going to please everyone. At the end of the day, the biggest criticism will be that we're handing out league-wide awards when there was not league-wide hockey. And that is true. I mean, it is what it is, right? Yeah, true. All right, everybody, we're back. And as promised, joined by the NHL's Deputy Commissioner Bill Daley.

Bill, it has been a whirlwind 48 hours, give or take for the National Hockey League. And let's just dive rate in. And as Pierre and I were talking about earlier in the podcast, the Tom Wilson situation at Madison Garden Monday evening. And the decision to find Tom Wilson followed by a rather, harsh letter or press release from the New York Rangers denouncing the league's decision. Can we just start with that? What's your reaction to the Rangers response and the suggestion that George Perros should not be

in his position as the head of Department of Player Safety? Well, I mean, I think certainly it was an emotional response and I can I'm sensitive to that and sympathetic to that. And certainly the Rangers feel strongly about their position. And I think we've always endorsed the club's ability to express its views. You know, I can't endorse a personal attack against any of league staff, particularly George. I think George is a smart, hardworking, hockey experienced head of department player safety. I think he's done a fabulous job.

from day one. I think he continues to do a fabulous job. It's a tough job. It's a thankfulness job. There are always there are always differences of opinion and there will always be

differences in opinion going forward. So whether you agree with him or not, the fact of the matter is, you know, George does his homework. He relies on precedent and he makes judgments. And, you know, I respect the fact that the Rangers may disagree with this judgment, but I don't think it's, you know, a reflection on George's ability to do his job.

And Bill, I know that, you know, you're not part of player safety's decisions per se, but you are the deputy commissioner, so everything they do, I know there's a lot of communication. I mean, I do personally believe that Tom Wilson should have faced discipline, Bill, for based on his record, not so much based on precedent. I understand what player safety is coming from on the actual events, but this is a guy that has done other things that have been violent. And so, you know, what's your concern about the fact that, you know,

this is a player that maybe doesn't get the benefit of the doubt and only got a $5,000 fine? Well, well, I guess, I mean, I guess the track record of player safety, vis-a-vis Tom Wilson kind of proves your suggestion that, you know, look, he's put himself in this position. But the spotlight's on. And everything he does is scrutinized to the nth degree and probably far more than other players doing similar things. And again, he's earned that. He's put himself in that position. But the fact of the matter is that is how the Department of Player Safety has treated him over time.

So, you know, again, I can't get into the rationale for this particular decision, other than I think it was a little bit different than anything else he's ever done. But the fact of the matter is he is held to a higher standard and probably rightly so. Can I just want to follow up on the Ranger bit, Bill. Are there sanctions then that the league will are expected to impose on the Rangers for their public statement or what happens next vis-a-vis the Rangers and the league as a result of this? I'm not really in a position to update kind of where we are. That's an internal league matter. Obviously, if and when there comes a point in time where there's something to announce in that regard. It'll be announced.

And there's a final point on this for we move on to other issues. Has there been communication, though, between you or the commissioner and the Rangers since that statement? I can't confirm that there has been since the statement, no. Okay. And Bill, as Pierre mentioned, we'll move along here. Another incident that came to light over the last week or so involved Jake, Tannin of the Vancouver Canucks and allegations of a sexual assault involving that player. I just was looking for some clarity or some understanding on what the league's role is in that

situation. I know he's no longer an active part of that roster right now. But how does the league, what's the league's role in this situation? Well, I, you know, I think the club was made aware of the situation. relatively recently, I mean, very recently. And in turn, they made us aware of the situation. We discussed how best to handle that situation. And that involved the club commencing an investigation.

That's what they're doing. And really, that's all I can say about it. I'm not aware of, I'm aware of the allegations. I'm not aware of any of the facts underlying the allegations or anything like that. So it would clearly be premature and improper for me to comment on something I really know nothing about. Right. Just as a follow-a-though, I presumably at the end of the, I believe there's a third party group that's been involved in or commissioned to come in and help with that investigation. I assume that the league will be monitoring that and then pending the outcome of it,

then the league may or may not have something to say about whether he can continue to play or whatever happens down the road. Is that fair? Again, I think it's all premature to kind of speculate as to how this plays out. But obviously, you know, we certainly would be interested and would act appropriately if wrongdoing is found. Speaking of the Canucks and then move on to some hockey things here, Bill, it is absolutely a certainty, right, that the Canucks will play out their regular season schedule

regardless of if they're eliminated here in the coming week or two. I know there's been some, you know, some people wondering if the North Division playoffers are all locked up, you know, why does Vancouver have to keep playing these games? what would be your comment on that? Yeah, that's our expectation. I mean, look, we play full seasons. There's a lot of things that are triggered by teams playing less than the requisite

number of games. You know, we're not really that far outside of the window. We had planned all along in terms of being within. So in that regard, I'm not sure it's any really different than, than a number of other scenarios we face every year with games that may not be meaningful to the final playoff picture. Right. And you mentioned that, I mean, the buffer week that you guys had talked to openly about at the start of the year has been used

for all the games that needed to be rescheduled because of COVID. And, you know, knock on wood, here we are in the final stretch here. What's your sense of when the playoffs can begin that? I mean, clearly the U.S. teams are in a position to likely begin. before the Canadian teams? Well, I mean, we are in the final stretch. I guess that's the good news. You know, as we've done with everything, you know, since COVID hit, we try to take as much

time as we possibly can to see where the world is and how facts have unfolded before we make decisions or make decisions prematurely. So, you know, we haven't, we certainly have. have in mind what we will do with the playoffs currently if nothing changes between now and then, but we've not made that announcement yet. I certainly expect that one possibility would be to start the West, Central and East a couple days sooner than the North. Bill, a great lot of discussion, I think, about, well, what happens to the North Division,

not just, you know, when it starts, which is, of course, is of interest to fans everywhere, but what happens as the playoffs move along? And my understanding is that there was some discussion on some level about, well, is there, should those four Canadian playoff teams, would they be better served going to American cities, NHL cities where there aren't playoff teams, but where fans could possibly pay buy tickets and come and watch games, which of course isn't the case in Canada. Is that still on the table or is your expectation that the first two rounds of the North Division playoffs will be held in the Canadian markets?

Or how do you think that'll play out? Well, again, without the benefit of having completed the season, it's somewhat speculative. But I will say, I don't think it's ever been a realistic consideration to have 14, come south and playing four different markets. I think we've considered as a safety net the possibility of moving all four teams to one location in the United States and potentially playing the first two rounds of the playoffs there in a worst case scenario where a judgment is made that it may be the safest place to be. I don't think we're there.

And clearly, I would tell you, and I've confirmed this recently, it is the preference of our Canadian teams to play out of their home markets, if and to the extent it's possible. Right. So clearly the bigger question, I guess, Bill, is what happens to the Canadian Division winner after the second round for obvious reasons with the border restrictions that are still in place. I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong, which I often am.

it really comes down to one last conversation with the Canadian government about whether that Canadian team could keep playing, right? I'm not sure it's one last conversation as opposed to ongoing conversations. You know, we're engaged in that process now. I can't give you a sense of where I think we are. You know, I do think the fact that they're entertained having the conversation indicates that it's certainly not out of the question for an exemption to be granted that would permit a U.S.-based club to travel into Canada without quarantine and the Canadian club to travel to the United States and back without quarantine.

So, again, ongoing discussion. Don't have a conclusion yet, but I guess the good news of that is we're not in the third round of the playoffs until mid-June best case. So nothing that has to be decided in the next week to 10 days. If I read correctly, I think this weekend will mark a point where at least some fans are able to go into all of the American-based arenas. And I assume that's good news for all of the American-based clubs. Do you have a sense, Bill, you know, how things are trending? and I know Pierre talked to Bill Foley in Vegas,

but what kind of what we might see come playoff time in terms of the numbers of fans that might be allowed to come in and see playoff games in those American markets. Do you have a sort of handle on what that looks like and how important it is? Well, first I will confirm that I do believe that before the end of the regular season,

all 24 of our U.S. base clubs will be in a position where they're hosting fans. Obviously, we're not in that position in Canada. With respect to the number of fans, it is primarily a function of what the local health authority and restrictions are. We also have protocols in place with respect to how, what is required to expand capacity and to what extent.

And some of those are fairly scientific. formulas with respect to air circulation within buildings and physical construction and geometry of buildings. So, you know, I'm not going to get into a lot of detail on that. But obviously, we have a number of clubs who've been able to expand their percentage of capacity over the course of this season. And I would expect that that may continue into the playoffs. This is kind of a weird one, Bill.

But, and I think I asked you this in an email. recently, but just to clarify, I thought there was talk that if it made geographical sense that there could be a two, three, two in these playoffs in a specific, you know, like, let's say Minton played Montreal in the first round. Is that a possibility? It, a possibility, I guess, I don't believe in the first round. Okay. And I don't, and I don't want to suggest that it's actively being considered. I will tell you that we have addressed the 232 versus 22-1-1-1 issue repeatedly with our clubs and with our general managers. And from a competitive standpoint, it's not something that our clubs embrace.

So, you know, that's probably why it's not an active consideration. Would I rule it out? No, I wouldn't rule it out because I won't rule out anything before I have to. to rule out anything. Right. Well, I meant just for this year, obviously, not for something to look forward to past the year. Yeah, no, but all I'm saying is, you know, if health circumstances were such that, you know, a two-three-two was important, then sure, we'd consider a two-three-two. And as a league and our constituent clubs, but we're not in that position currently. And so I don't think it's a current, you know, I don't think it's currently being comfortable. Gotcha.

Bill, you mentioned the protocols and the formulas for the fans being allowed into buildings. Certainly lots of discussion on some levels about the protocols for players and teams and teams personnel, especially in the United States, where the vaccines are much more readily available. And the number of players and staff who have been fully vaccinated is growing on a daily basis. A, can you give us an update on where we're at with? In terms of percentage of players and or team personnel that you understand are fully vaccinated and whether there might be a loosening of protocols as we move forward knowing that it's the most critical time of the year. So I'm hesitant to give throw out percentage numbers in part because I'm not sure I would have the most current. I do expect to have more information over the balance this week.

Obviously, the number of and the percentage of vaccinated individuals among our U.S. clubs continues to increase. And for certain clubs is quite high. And as a result of that, you know, obviously not the same in Canada. But as a result of that, we are in discussions with players association and we have made the clubs aware that we are looking at potentially revising some of the protocols for individuals who are fully vaccinated and teams that are deemed fully vaccinated. There's a percentage standard we'll put in for those teams. and that, you know, that would take effect with the first round of the playoffs. Again, not issued yet. Still a work in progress, still being worked on.

But it is being actively looked at. Could you sort of, like, not ballpark, but could you give us a sense of what kinds of things might, you know, could players go and have a coffee or a beer on a patio? Or what kinds of things do you think we'd be talking about in terms of, you know, affecting the, you know, the protocols and the lifestyles of players and staff who've been pretty much locked down for all of this season. Yeah, I do think, you know, we're anticipating the ability of kind of fully vaccinated clubs having less precautionary requirements, whether it be mask wearing or social distancing or social gatherings or being able to do more. things outside the home or the arena, potentially eating at restaurants. There are a variety of things that are being considered and may be effective for those clubs who qualify.

And one last vaccination question. What's your sense when talking to the seven Canadian clubs, but I guess especially the four clubs that are likely playoff-bound. about where they are on their vaccination schedule, which is clearly way behind as we are here in Canada. But because the playoffs are around the corner, you know, there will come a time because, you know, we're beginning to widen the net here in Canada for people getting their first shot that players will have access to it, right?

Yeah, I think that's true, Pierre. I would say I've been given no indication at this point in time that we should have any realistic expertise. expectation of vaccinations and, you know, be made available in a widespread manner to, to members of our Canadian clubs, you know, during the balance of the spring and end of the summer. Having said that, I am given indication and reason to believe that, you know, certainly people are hopeful that we will be in that position, you know, by the start of training camp next year. So I guess a long winder way of saying, I don't think there's any expectation that

that happens during the balance of this season, but hopefully it happens in time for next season. Well, you mentioned next season, Bill. We now officially have a 32nd NHL team in the Seattle Cracken who fulfilled their financial obligations and our fully vested member of the club. Do you have any updates on the draft, which of course will involve the Seattle Cracken, and maybe the idea that, you know, whether prospects are going to be able to gather in some location or just because it won't be a traditional draft, obviously, in late July. But are there some plans that may, you know, sort of add some wrinkles and make things a little bit different than what we saw with the October draft? Well, I guess the only thing that I could really point to as being materially different would be that I know there are efforts to try to get prospects together over the course of a three-day period, maybe sometime in early July, particularly, you know, Canadian major junior prospects who either didn't have a season at all. or who had a very limited season, getting a group together for NHL clubs to have the opportunity to observe firsthand. Again, not ideal and certainly not, you know, reflective of what you'd see in a competitive situation.

But maybe just some idea. You know, we'll move forward with the draft on July 23rd and 24th. It'll be a virtual draft. It will be similar informed to what we did in October. I do expect that the second day of the draft will go much quicker than the second day of the draft did this past year. I certainly hope that's the case. Part of that will be on the television production side as opposed to the operation side. But I hope our fans can anticipate a shorter second.

second day. Okay. Last question. I know you've got to go. We've gone too long, but I would not sleep tonight if I didn't ask you about the Olympics. I mean, you guys got to put a schedule together for next season. And, you know, times of the essence here. I got to think that by the end of May, early June, that you need to know if you have a deal with the IOC for Beijing, am I right? Yeah, no, I think that's there. I think, you know, I would imagine we need. We need to know, we need to know, need to know sometime this month, for sure. And I can't tell you, you know, I've been updated regularly with respect to kind of where the double IHF thinks is in that process, but no answers yet. So, you know, we don't have an answer. I'll, you know, I'll say that both we and the Players

Association are doing what we need to do. do to be prepared if the answer is a positive one. But time will tell. Just to clarify that, though, Bill. So let's say if you have a point where you need to know and there's no communication, the IOC can't, for whatever reason, can't come to the table with an answer. Is it possible that you and the Players Association could say, well, we're done? We have to move. We're moving on and our season will will not include the Olympics.

Yeah. No, I think that, you know, by implication, that is the result. Everybody knows we need to have a schedule for next year. We need to have a plan for next year. One of the things that you guys wanted to talk about were our events for next year. Well, they're very much dependent on whether we're going to the Olympics or not going to the Olympics. So a lot hangs in the balance on that. You know, I would also say, you know, would be naive to think that, you know, the IOCs or the Olympic worlds revolve around us. They don't. They've got a lot going on.

They've got summer games to put on in, you know, a couple of months. You know, having the Beijing game so soon after the Tokyo games, I would imagine is a challenge on many levels. And so, you know, I think to some extent, I think the delays we're seeing are very predictable. Good stuff. All right. All right, Bill. Thank you so much for coming and hanging out with us as always and certainly lots of news going on. But thank you for taking the time and sharing your insights as always.

Anytime, guys. You know, I'm happy to do it. Thank you, Bill. Appreciate it. All right, guys. All right, my friend. Oh, as always, when we chat with Bill Daily, a lot to unpack. boy, given the news here, let's circle back.

I'm curious to your response to how Bill characterized the New York Rangers press release. I thought he might be a little bit more short, but he seemed a little bit more. I was a little bit surprised that he seemed to be at least outwardly a little bit more Zen than I thought he might have been given the tone of the Rangers release. Yeah. I mean, it might be that, you know, we're talking to a guy. between the COVID situation and the pandemic and everything else happening in Bill Dehaley's life in the last year, you know, as important as this story is, there's been a lot going on for the deputy commissioner of the last year. So I almost feel like that's like, you know,

do you know what his day's like? But, you know, I'm glad that obviously we had really wanted to address it, not just that we had to address it. I wanted to address it. Clearly, him and I disagree. I mean, as I said, I think Tomlson should have faced discipline. But, you know, I, you know, it's what's interesting to me in all of this. And that's why I asked, even though I knew I would get shut down, is what the conversation would have been like between the league and the Rangers after that statement. Yeah. That would have been a fly on the wall moment for me, for sure. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, who knows whether the shoe drops because, and I think you pointed out. I mean, the league historically does not like people speaking out of turn, right? And especially, you know, sort of on that club level. And they have taken a hard stance in the past in terms of fines and those kinds of things. So two other takeaways, Scotty, because I know we got to move on here. But a bit of news dropped by Bill Daley, I thought in our interview.

One is that working on loosening the COVID protocols for the U.S.-based teams. Agreed. For those who were fully vaccinated. it. You know, I'm going back to Robin Leonard's Collins. I think that would be of great value and an interest to those players. And I also feel for the game players, we won't get any of that. Exactly. And finally, our last question on the Olympics, boy, far from a done deal is Beijing. That's a little worrisome. For those of us who can't wait to see the NHL players back in the Olympics, man, the clock's ticking on that one. And I get it. It's not like the NHL

and HLPA can force it. They need the IOC to come to them. And the IOC is pretty busy trying to figure out if Tokyo's, you know, going to go off without a hitch. But, man, that's about a month to go here, don't you think? Well, yeah, it sounds like even less than that, really, if Bill's talking about the end of the month, and here we are, you know, into the end of the first week of May.

And I got, listen, you know, these kinds of things, there's, you know, historically there's been some posturing and the debating and what is the deadline. But my sense of this is, this is not, no one's pounding the table from the NHL, NHLPA side, but it did sound very much to me like, hey, we will have to make some decisions moving forward. And if we have to move forward without the Olympics being part of it, then that's exactly what we'll do. And I don't, you know, and correct me if you think I'm off base here. But my sense is that the NHL and the NHLPA are pretty much in lockstep on all of this because it needs to get done and the IOC needs to come to the table and answer a lot of questions and cover, you know, whether it's coverage of insurance and travel costs and marketing issues, all those things, both the league and the Players Association are on the same page on that. And there is also an understanding you can't, you can't be having this discussion in October.

And if it doesn't get done, then I'm, God, I also got a sense of, yeah, it's, we may be looking at the NHL not being part of the Olympics. Yeah, let's hope that's not the case. That's, honestly, that would be brutal. Just the idea of the next wave of young stars and have yet to play in the Olympics, well, so many, but from McDavid to Matthews to McKinnon, Victor Hedman, who's not even a kid, has never played in the Olympics. And I know when talking to him in the past,

how much it would mean to him, it just would be gut-wrenching. And to answer your question, yes, I think the league and the PA are in lockstep on this, except for one very important thing, is that this matters way more, I think, to the players than it does to the owners. Right, for sure.

Yeah. All right, my friend, looking at some of the questions folks have sent in, And it's not surprising. A number of them have to do with the Tom Wilson Ranger situation. But I'm going to ask this question. This comes from James Burgall. And it's something you alluded to in terms of fighting in the NHL. And this is this question. How come the NHL seems so intent on ridding the league of fighting when it has such high entertainment value? There's only two times when the whole crowd stands up a goal in a fight. And I want to ask, I want to ask that question to, you know, you and I can discuss it. But I also think it's interesting, given the backdrop that we're now headed into a brand new broadcast relationships with ESPN and Turner Sports. I wonder what those folks are thinking, or what do you think they're thinking as they watch what happens with Tom Wilson and the coverage and maybe imagine how they would have covered a similar kind of situation once they're the national broadcasters in the U.S.? What do you make of that?

Yeah, well, first of all, I think the premise of the question is a bit wrong. I don't think the league has really done away with fighting. I think fighting is on the decline in its natural evolution. It's not like the league has done anything specifically in the rulebook to say that you can't have an enforcer. The enforcer has gone by the wayside because he can't skate in today's game. So, you know, whether you want to give the league grief or credit, depends on your vantage point of how you feel about fighting. is I don't think the league had anything to do with that. I just think that as a game has continued to

to move along in modern times, only people that can skate are playing in the NHL. So that's number one. You know, if you really wanted to actually as a body get rid of fighting, you would impose game misconducts if not suspensions for fighting, which you know, you don't have. You know, I mean, imagine if you had an automatic one-game suspension every time you fought. Now, that would be doing something about getting rid of fighting. But that's not the case. So, again, fighting has just gone by the wayside, or at least there's less fighting, simply because of the nature of how the rosters are populated now.

So that's number one. But yeah, but the rest of the question is bang on, I mean, or at least your question, that, you know, you've got a biggest TV partner ever here in ESBA. Turners come on, you know, you want to be talking about Connor McDavid is what you want to be talking about. Dear and Zimbler. Yeah. And it's funny, now that I don't even think about it, and maybe you know the answer to this or not, do you think, like, when you're watching highlights and whether it's on TSN or Sportsnet or NBC Sports, whatever, like, are there highlights of fights now?

God, my sense is. Oh, yeah. I still think you see it here and there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sometimes because it's like, oh, there was a fight. I mean, you don't see that. You don't see that in any fights anymore.

So, yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. My friend, that was fine work by you. That was a lot of news. That was a very newsy podcast for us today. So good work by you.

What else we got on the list here? Let's talk about this. I'm fascinated by this. Ed Colletti, the former GM of the Los Angeles Dodgers and current Pro Scout of the San Jose Sharks, spends the full 60 with Craig Custons at the Athletic. And Katie String discusses the latest on Jake Furtain and the sexual assault case and the Vancouver Canucks with Jeff Patterson and Thomas Drance on the Vancast. And Vegas Golden Knights insider, Gary Lawless. I hear from Gary every once in a while. What a great gig he's got in Las Vegas.

And he's done such a great job there since moving from Winnipeg. He's Mike Russo's guest this week on Straight From the Source. How do you feel about Gary Lawless, my friend? The Wild, having won five in a row against the Golden Knights. Whoa! I love Gary Lawless. He is a good man. He is a good mate, former teammate of yours at TSN, right?

A big CFL guy. Yeah. Yeah, he does a great job out West. All right. You should check out our comment section for each podcast episode at The Athletic app and rate and subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on Apple. If you aren't already a subscriber, go to Theathletic.com slash hockey show and receive a subscription for just $3.99 per month. Buddy, when we reconvene next week, we will be literally days away from the start of the NHL playoffs, hopefully. I can't wait for it, but good work by you today.

Right on, right on.