The Athletic Hockey Show - Bob Murray resigns as GM of the Anaheim Ducks, Colorado Avalanche and Vegas Golden Knights struggle, Connor McDavid's effect on the betting world, and more

Episode Date: November 11, 2021

Ian Mendes and Sean McIndoe are joined by Ducks beat writer Eric Stephens to discuss Bob Murray's resignation as GM of Anaheim, the investigation that lead up to it, and more. Then, the surprising starts from the California NHL teams, and the struggles for the Colorado Avalanche and the Vegas Golden Knights. In "Granger Things", Jesse Granger looks at Connor McDavid's effect on the betting world, the guys discuss the salary cap floor in the listener mailbag, a goalie-centric "This Week in Hockey History" and more!Have a question or comment for Ian and Sean? Email [e-mail], or leave a VM at [phone]!Save on an annual subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're back. It's another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Ian Mendez, Sean McIndee with you for this Thursday edition ahead in the podcast. Eric Stevens joins us for the latest on the Anaheim Ducks after their general manager, Bob Murray resigned in the wake of some allegations of a toxic workplace under his rule. We'll chat about the struggling Colorado Avalanche and whether or not it's time to panic in Mile High City. We'll talk about a couple of Down Goes Brown columns this week, too, including a pretty fun debate about potential all of famers.

Jesse Granger is back for Granger things, and we'll wrap it up as we always do by opening up the mailbag and doing a little this week in hockey history, which has a distinct goalie theme to it. But Sean, I'll tell you what, this is becoming a theme on the athletic hockey show where we open the show

by getting somebody out of bed really early in Seattle. Like maybe that's going to be our schick. Sleepless in Seattle is the new segment. There we go. I love it because last week it was John Vogel, bright and early from Seattle in the wake of the Jack Eichael trade. And this time, it's our Anaheim Ducks beatwriter. Eric Stevens, bright and early from the same city in Seattle.

Good morning to you. Thank you for joining us so early as we let our listeners know. We're recording this just after 7 a.m. Pacific time with you Thursday. So, Eric, we really appreciate you getting up for this. What are you guys doing? You guys are nuts. You know that? No, I appreciate it.

Hey, listen, I guess the very first question is, if you could give our listeners here on the podcast, a little bit of a sense, Eric, of how everything shook down in the last 72 hours. And did it just come as a complete surprise to everybody that's around the ducks that Bob Murray, again, has kind of stepped aside, resigned in the wake of some allegations around the way he handled himself inside the offices? You know, yeah, it's a good question. And it's interesting when you phrase it that way because, okay, maybe within the past 48, 72 hours or so, yes, the timeliness of it is maybe the more shocking thing, you know, the fact that this was not only handled and done in such a quick manner. But if you would say talk with, you know, talk to people within the organization, those who had been in the organization, previously whatsoever as as i and others have done you'll find that the fact that there wasn't

an investigation into his conduct and and the subsequent moves that have been made isn't terribly shocking or surprising you know this seems to be a thing where this this culture this toxic culture that you know that you speak of is something that's been festering for a long while and I mean, if you know Bob Murray and his history or noram as a person, you know, he's, I guess you could say he can be a high-strung individual and, you know, someone that where you could see where, you know, certain tough losses, playoff losses whatsoever, you know, setbacks that his team suffered or whatsoever, you know, there were times where you would hit over the years where he wouldn't handle them in the best of manners or most professional of

manners, you know, with the greatest decorum, I guess you could say. So yet, you know, with the suddenness of the last 48 hours, you know, that part is shocking, but, you know, the fact that he was, you know, put under the investigation by the team, and what's what or maybe isn't terribly shocking when you talk to people and hear. you know, from them. Here are some of the things that that either occurred or at least the fact that, you know, that they see it as something worth. It's not a surprise to them.

Yeah. You talk about the suddenness of it. And from an outside perspective, this all happened remarkably quickly. Could you just walk us through the timeline? Because our understanding is that there were some complaints raised potentially through the reporting process that the league. is pushing now in the wake of the Black Hawk story, there was an initial investigation or an investigation began,

some initial findings that were concerning, which led to Bob Murray being put on leave, and then the resignation coming quickly after. How do we know exactly when the team was alerted to this or when the investigation began and how long that's been ongoing? And is it still ongoing, or is this considered a settled matter now? There isn't, say, a specific timeline that they've given or indicated or the firm that they hired to do this of when this began.

Other than this happened very recently. And like you said, John, I believe that the impetus for this did occur when someone reported his behavior to. the the NHL's hotline, which is set up for people to, you know, to enable people to anonymous report, you know, improper conduct, improper behavior of team officials in an anonymous manner, so that they are protected and free from potential repercussions or so. So very recently is the closest in terms of a timeline. On Tuesday, the team did reveal, I believe it was Tuesday afternoon, and I was in Vancouver at that time, did reveal that they had put him on administrative leave for that.

So obviously, the club deemed that these accusations, allegations, you know, call it what you will, had enough gravity behind them that such a move had to be made. And once he was put on leave and over the 24 hours between that move and then him resigning yesterday morning, you know, you could see where this was going to be a situation where there was going to be no coming back, you know, from this for the process, the investigation, which is still ongoing, it is not concluded, and we'll wait to see if there's going to be some findings, some specific findings that will be released. But in that, you know, in that 18 to 24-hour period or so, in between the leave and is resigning, you can see where there's, there's just

going to be no coming back for this, really no way that Bob was going to survive this. And so he's actually the one that volunteered to back from Vancouver into Orange County where he had previously been with the team. You know, I think what's really important here, too, Eric, is that this isn't just stuff from like 2019, 20, 21. I'm going to read for the benefit of our listeners here. This is from a news article in 2009. Okay, this is from 2009.

A Michigan jury concluded that Anaheim Ducks General, manager, Bob Murray will not have to pay damages to a woman who claimed he assaulted her with a chair in 2009 at a game against the Red Wings, the lawsuit, which was heard by a jury in Michigan over the past few days, had Murray in the Ducks listed as defendants by a 45-year-old woman who sought, who had accused Murray of assaulting her with a chair and sought damages for the assault. Now, this is kind of a story that has been in the NHL circles. Bob Murray was so angry, and you talked about this. really. Like sometimes he wouldn't handle losses in the right way.

Took a chair and threw it. Not intentionally, you know, but just clear reckless, we'll call it reckless negligence or, you know, whatever you want to call it. Do you think that, I mean, these are the types of stories that now have probably come to light now, like that people now maybe feel more empowered. And as Sean talked about, the hotline is there. Maybe now people feel like I got a layer of protection to speak up about these types of incidents. For sure. And, and, And I think a strong impetus for people being, you know, being able to report such incidents whatsoever is the whole Chicago Blackhawk scandal. And, you know, and I guess what's come out of that. You know, this, we're in an age now where that type of behavior is simply not just going to be, you know, tolerated or shrug off.

I mean, maybe people in power will still attempt to try to, I guess, I don't know, cover up as the right word, but, you know, hope these incidents sort of go away quietly whatsoever. But I think it's given people more of a feeling that, you know, they can be able to speak to speak out and not, you know, lose their job over it. Because I think that's where a lot of this toxic culture, you know, really is born out of the fact that, you know, people's livelihoods are certainly at stake. And if they're in a workplace that feels threatening to them where there are individuals of power who sort of hold that over people or so, how can a business run at its greatest effectiveness when there is that type of climate? So I think the Chicago Blackhawks, you know, and the Kyle Beach scandal whatsoever really has maybe say open some eyes. And, you know, you hope that we're not only for Anaheim, but really any other team, any other sports organization, that becomes a real teachable moment in terms of

treating your employees and treating them with respect. Yep. And not just the Blackhawks, but even somewhat recently we saw it with Mike Babcock, Bill Peters. You look at, to some extent, some of the John Gruden stuff in the NFL, it really feels like, and we don't know the details of the Bob Murray situation, but the sense you get is not so much that something changed with Bob Murray recently so much as the ground kind of, you know, is shifted underneath him where behavior that would have been, if not acceptable, it would have been something that the expectation would have been, you just roll with it. You're working in the

hockey world. It's a sports world. It's a bunch of alpha males. This is how they act sometimes. And if you can't handle it, you got to go somewhere else. And now there is this shift in thinking that says, no, you don't have to go somewhere else. They do or they have to change the behavior. And I'd be willing to bet that there are probably a lot of people around the NHL world right now that are feeling a little bit nervous or maybe making a few phone calls or sending a few texts to people saying, hey, you know, if I was ever out of line before, you know, I want to make amends now before because it's, it does not sound like Bob Murray is the only one in the hockey world who may be acts this way. Is he the only one in Anaheim? Like, is this matter considered closed? Do you

from the Ducks perspective, or is this something where maybe it goes further into the organization? You know, yeah, it's a really good question, Sean. And, you know, I think that that's something that's, you know, we're still going to have to see how that plays out. I know, I don't know of, say, anything personally to where this is a systemic issue, to where there's multiple or, you know, individuals or, you know, this, this is just, you know, it was standard operating procedure where, like you said, those alpha males treated fellow employees in this manner. You know, I think if anything, the question I see, you know, coming out of this is while, yes, the, this situation was handled quickly and, you know, he is resigned.

You know, they have an interim GM in place. They will look to, you know, they will look to find a new permanent executive. But how long was this enabled? How long was his behavior enabled? How long did, you know, tolerate it, so to speak? You know, how much did the ownership know about this, Henry and Susan Stamwelley? How much, you know, and did, you know, are they a bit culpable in, you know, enabling this, letting his behavior go unchecked.

That to me is one of the key questions that I think has to come out of this. And I think we need to see some transparency as well. I mean, again, from what I understand, the investigation is not closed. I'm sure that they would love to move on from it as quickly as possible. But I think this is a situation where we need to see some transparency, in terms of, you know, what exactly was at the root of this pattern of behavior. They, like you said, this wasn't just something that happened recently. This has happened over years.

So I think we need, those are two key things that I think we need, we still need to see coming out of this. Eric, in closing, I would be remiss, though, if I didn't ask you one, and look, the Ducks have been a great story on the ice. I think they're kind of punching above their weight and higher than people thought. what on earth is going on with Troy Terry? This might be the best story in the NHL. And for a lot of people who probably snap this guy up on their fantasy waiver wire

a couple of weeks ago, they're riding the Troy Terry train here. Just give our listeners a little sense of how great this story has been. No, it really is a fabulous story. And, you know, it's been interesting. You know, as I've read Sean's columns and others look forward, this team hasn't been very relevant in recent years. and they've been quite boring on the ice, but not this year at all. And Troy Terry's been at the heart of it.

I think what you're seeing is a player who's just, he's always had skill. You know, anyone that watched him at the World Juniors back in 2017 or those who have seen him closely, they've seen flashers of it in the NHL. This is a player that, this is a young player, a 24-year-old who's really starting to put everything together now. He's always rode on confidence, maybe too much. The swings in confidence and feeling down on himself when he wasn't playing well were probably too big for him to handle in his early years. But no, he is on such a role right now that is really driving the ducks to some surprising early success, as you noted. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

And he really is a, you know, he really is a fun player to watch just in terms of the way he can, he can stick handle, you know, and make plays in tight. And now he's shooting the puck and he's finishing. And, you know, he's riding the wave and the ducks are riding it with him. Well, listen, we appreciate the early morning visit from Seattle, like Sean said, sleepless in Seattle will be our new segment. But Eric, I appreciate this. I enjoyed your column that you wrote early.

earlier this week about, you know, what the Samuelis were kind of dealing with as an ownership group and all of the stuff with Bob Murray. Terrific stuff. I've been enjoying your stuff as the Anaheim Ducks, like I said, been a pretty fun team on the ice. And obviously, this story, unfortunately, overshadows it. But we appreciate you joining us and giving our listeners a little bit more context on Bob Murray. So thanks for this and safe travels here this week. Hey, thanks, guys. Time for breakfast, by the way. Thanks, sir. Appreciate it. All right. Little, little conversation with Eric Stevens and that, that was great. Sean, I got to tell you, are you surprised with the three California teams that we all thought would be kind of at the bottom of the barrel in the Pacific Division and kind of in the, you know, at least in the case of L.A. and Anaheim, I thought we thought they were kind of in the throes of a rebuild.

And San Jose, I think we kind of had a hard time figuring out like who are they, what are they? But they're all off to really good starts in the first month of the season. And I, if I was listing like surprises of the year, like the three California teams all being above 500 is, is a surprise to me. They're right on, and especially right now, right? Anaheim riding a five-game win streak, L.A. 6. But it's kind of been the theme all around the league. The five, six, seven, eight teams that we, we all kind of figured were not necessarily bottom dwellers, but not in contention because they were rebuilding or they, you know, this and that. There's been success almost across the board on them.

I mean, you mentioned the three California teams. Buffalo, obviously, has been. at least better to start the year than we thought. New Jersey's being good. Columbus has kind of come out of nowhere to post a really impressive record. Detroit, another team that has been at the bottom of the standings for years now. And they've got some pulse going right now. So it's really other than Arizona and arguably Ottawa, all of the teams that we thought were going to be bad

are putting up more of a fight than we thought, which is great. And that's what makes it fun. And, you know, history tells us that some of this won't last. You know, a lot of this will look back and go, yeah, that was the one good month that they put together. But it's fun, right? If you're a fan of one of those teams, it's always great to have that, you know, that little boost of hope. And especially if it comes in a year where maybe you weren't expecting it, it can sit you up well for down the line. So it's very cool to see.

Yeah. And, you know, the flip side of this coin is, while there's a. a whole bunch of teams overachieving the Columbus's, Detroit's, and the California teams. The flip side is, well, that must mean there's an equal number of teams that are, you know, underachieving. And I can't help but think of two of the heavyweights in the Western Conference in Colorado in Vegas. And let me first start with Vegas only because I know in your rankings for this week,

they were the team that didn't make it. And, like, you don't, like, I guess let me ask you this question. What do we do with Vegas? Like, how do we view Vegas? They got a bunch of injuries. Like, like, how do we view the Vegas Golden Knights right now? Because as we look at the standings, they're, you know, whatever. Yeah, six place in their division.

They're kind of just a 500 team. But they're just like a, they're like a lion that's kind of just in waiting here, right? You would think, although, you know, we see it most years where there's one or two teams that are the lions in waiting and we just keep waiting. and we just keep waiting. And it never really breaks out. Vegas is a very tough one because there were two things we thought we knew about Vegas. Number one was going to be that they were going to be a very good team. And number two was that the division stunk and they were going to easily run away with first place

and probably have a pretty clear path right to the final four. And they haven't been good, partly due to injuries, but they haven't been good. And the division looks much stronger than we thought. Edmonton is much better than we thought. But Calgary is far better than we thought. Now suddenly you're looking at it saying, geez, even if Vegas gets back to where we think they should, are they going to win the division?

Do they end up finishing second or third? Maybe they don't have home ice. Maybe they get a real tough matchup. Maybe the path out of that division is a lot stronger. So it was already tough enough to figure this team out before they go and get Jack Eichel. And that's what I had trouble with because if people read the power rankings, that I do on Monday, mine are a little bit different. I try to figure out who's going to win the cup.

That's all I'm worried about as far as the top of the league. I'm not worried about who's good right now. This team just beat that team. So, you know, in theory, it doesn't shift around as much as some of the other rankings you'll see. I'm trying to figure out who's going to win. Well, I mean, Vegas, they just got one of the best players in the world. And we don't know when he'll be back and we don't know for sure what his health will be like. but if he's back and he's healthy, even forget about the season.

As long as they make the playoffs, which they should, they could get him back day one of the playoffs. We saw that with Tampa with Nikita Kuturov. If that happens with Jack Eichol, aren't they still a serious cup contender? I think you would have to say so. Although I'm not sure how you can look at a team that's basically 500 right now and say that's one of my top five cup contenders, but maybe they are because eventually when they get everyone healthy

and they've got that first line together, if they choose to put all those guys on the ice at the same time, they're going to be real, real hard to beat. But it's right now we're not seeing it. And with Eichol, at least, we're not going to see it for many months. And, you know, by that point, you would assume they've got their other guys healthy and they're looking good and they're back in the mix in the Pacific. But who knows?

You know, it's a long time. Maybe this season doesn't play out the way they were hoping for. I don't know. I'm really watching it with some curiosity. Okay. I'm also curious, though, about the Colorado Avalanche, because if you were asking most people at the start of this season, give us your five teams that were going to be a legitimate heavyweight.

Colorado's on everybody's list, like everybody's list. I don't see who doesn't put Colorado there. And now here we are, 10 games in the season, you're scuttling along, and now they find out Nate McKinnon's going to be out for three up to three weeks, lower body injury. Like, is it, is it time to kind of just ask some tough questions around the abs? Are we, do we need to start?

Because it's not like the, it's not like Vegas. Like Vegas, you're like, I, they'll be okay. They got to get everywhere back. The abs feel different though, don't they? A little bit? Yeah, a little bit they do. And they've had injuries too. But, yeah, it's a tough one.

Again, those same power rankings, I had Colorado in my top five week after week. because I'm like, it's the avalanche. It's everyone's preseason cup pick. And, you know, I got people yelling at me. You know, they're two and five. How do you have a two and five team at the top of your rankings? Well, because I still believe in these guys. And I think I still do.

But there is a point where, you know, it gets a little bit tough. And I think the point comes when you lose back-to-back games to the Columbus Blue Jackets. You know, that's a good point to maybe start reevaluating. The injuries are piling up. You know, at this point, Darcy Kemper, I think, has been not the problem, but certainly it hasn't been fantastic, I don't think. And then, yeah, you look at the, you know,

the fact that they're going to be missing Nathan McKinnon for a few weeks. Again, it's a few weeks. It's not a few months. It's not the rest of the season. I don't think we overreact to it too badly. But again, this was the other team in the West that we all said, okay, well, Penn, the Central Division, Colorado is going to finish first.

We know that. And now you're looking at it and going, there's a lot of season to go, but they're nine points behind Minnesota, eight behind St. Louis, like they've got ground to make up. I still think they're a playoff team. And ultimately, you know,

maybe that's all we need to say about teams like Vegas and Colorado. We're overthinking the rest of it. Make the playoffs, as we have seen in the last few years, you make the playoffs and then anything can happen. And we can talk about finishing first or seeding or whole mice, but maybe that really doesn't matter. Didn't matter much last year with what we saw Montreal doing.

And we've seen it with other teams. So maybe you just make the playoffs and then you've got as good a shot as any other team or maybe better. That could be the case. I'm really interested, though, to see specifically what happens with Colorado and Joe Sackick, if we get halfway into the season and they're still muddling along. Because I wrote, at the beginning of the year, I wrote a piece where I said, here's my most interesting names to watch. And I had Joe Sackick on the list.

And I said, this guy's under a lot of pressure because Colorado, as good as they've been, they keep underachieving the playoffs, keep going out in the second round. Does he need to do something to shake it up? And I had a lot of people push back on that. And they said, no, no, it's Colorado's good team. Everyone knows they're a good team. It'll happen in the playoffs or it won't. But Joe Sackick's not under any pressure to shake this up.

I'm curious to see if we get halfway into the season and it's not clicking and people are looking going, Vegas just went and got a franchise player. What are you doing? I'm curious to see if that plays out, if that pressure starts to build, if he reacts to it. And if so, what does he do? You know, what's the, you know, what kind of move is he looking to make? Or does he do like we've seen other teams do and say, this is my team and I'm going to play the hand I'm dealt? And then who knows?

We see how it plays out. But, you know, I still think it's Colorado and Vegas in the West. I still think that's your Western final. But, man, they've given us a lot of reason to doubt. And there's a lot of other teams pushing into the mix to give us a reason to think that maybe this isn't going to play out as easily as a lot of us seem to think it would. Yeah. And like you said, the Aves have had some injuries. McKinnon now.

I know McCar was banged up last week, right? Rantanin was banged up a little bit. I don't think they've had Devon Taves basically for the whole year. So there is, but there's just something, I don't know, something seems amiss there. Now, as you look at the potential things that Joe Sackett can do, like I wonder about the security of a guy like Jared Bednar who, I'll be honest with you. When he first came into Colorado, I was, I was of the opinion. I'm like, man, this guy seems like you're classic. I'll be there for like two years, three years, and then I'll be gone, right?

Like, I don't know why he gave me those vibes. I got to give this guy credit, though. Like he has consistently got them into the playoffs now, right? Like whatever, four years in a row. But I wonder if that's the move. Like he's been there now, what, this is his fifth or six full season there. You wonder if that might be the thing. And I don't want to see it's a cop out or the easy move.

But you wonder, right? Like, is that the move you make if you're Joe Sackick midway through the season? It would be the easy move, right? And that's the, you know, I just talked about, well, you know, do you go make a big transaction, big, trade, how do you do that? Look at their cap space. I mean, you know, we saw Vegas pull it off and the fact that Vegas keeps figuring out a

way to do it, maybe should make us look a bit harder at other teams. But it's tough. Yeah, Jared Benner has been a fascinating case because, you know, he came in after Patrick Wock quit, sort of a late hire. You thought, oh, geez, I don't know. Was this, did they go out and get the best guy or did they just get the guy who was available under the circumstances? and then they have that absolutely miserable first season.

You go, okay, well, there you go. This guy's over his head. This isn't going to last. But then he gets his first real season where he has the whole camp and the offseason to prepare. And the team's been real good ever since to the point where, you know, he's a guy that had come up in Jack Adams' conversations. And yet now, here it is, based on 10 games with injuries on the roster. Is it fair to a coach who's had success for four years in a row? No, not at all.

But just the NHL, it's not always fair. And if, you know, sometimes as a GM, you sit there and go, I got to change something. And it's, there's one move that's easy and a whole bunch of other options that are going to be difficult. Sometimes GMs take the easy road. And I'm not saying that that's what I would do or want to see in Colorado. But the nature of this business is that, yeah, that's going to be. going to be an option on the table. All right, Sean, time for a little Granger things with our pal, Jesse Granger.

As always, brought to you by our friends at BetMGM, the exclusive betting partner with us, with the athletic. And Jesse, the irony of last week was, it's the one time you actually came to our hometown. We're both Sean and I live. We live in. Jesse Granger rolls in. Jesse Granger can't join the podcast because it's the day of the Jack Eichael trade. which reminded me that, like we said, every time you come to Ottawa, get ready because two years ago or two and a half years ago was Peter DeBoer, takes over as the head coach.

Now, Shaq Eichael. Go ahead. Next year when they drop the schedule, just circle the Ottawa date and know that something seismic is going to happen for the Vegas golden night. Yep. I was joking with my editor, Rich Hammond. Yeah, you got to make the Ottawa trip for sure. And not only did both, I've only been to Ottawa twice in my whole life. And both times that happened. It was super. early in the morning. Like twice in my life, I've woken up in my Ottawa hotel room at 7.30 Eastern time, which for me is 4.30 on the body clock still, 430 a.m. and seen crazy news. I remember, like you mentioned, a year and a half ago, that press release from the team that fired Gerard Gallant and hired Pete DeBore, I remember copying the email address and pasting it into my Google Docs and blowing up the font to make sure it wasn't a fake email, because I was for sure I was getting punked on that one.

The Eichol News wasn't quite that shocking because we kind of saw it coming, but yeah, trips to Ottawa are fun. Not a phrase you hear very often, but we'll get that. We'll pass it on to the Tourism Bureau for trips to Ottawa, fun. Jesse Granger. Yeah, listen, this guy from Vegas says we're a fun town. That's the great contrast. So, okay, I got to ask both of you guys, okay?

Because we're going to have some fun with some Connor McDavid stuff here as part of your Granger things. That goal that he scored last week against the Rangers, one on four, nicest goal that you've ever seen, or most unbelievable jaw-dropping goal that you guys have ever seen from McDavid in particular. I mean, I know there's been some unbelievable ones, that the best Connor McDavid goal you guys have ever seen? I think if you narrow it down to just Connor McDavid,

I think it's the best one I've ever seen. Like when people put it into the perspective of like, is that the best goal ever scored? I have a hard time with that because like place and meaning, mean things to me. Like, like, McDavid hasn't had the chance to score big time goals in like games in the playoffs and meaningful goals. But in terms of just the actual goal itself and you remove the like the importance of it, I guess, that was probably the best goal I've ever seen.

Yeah, it's it's right up there. I mean, I grew up in the Mario era. So I've seen some pretty ridiculous stuff, including in the Stanley Cup final. So I, I don't know that I put it best ever, but it's it's in the conversation, especially under the circumstances, right? The fact that it came in the final minutes of a game, you know, his team's down by one goal. This, you know, it's, it would have been a great goal in the first period, but, you know, the Rangers are out there going just don't give up a goal. That's all, everybody fall back, just what, and he's just like, no, I'll just, I'll just do it on my own. And, you know, I've, I've seen a lot of great goals that develop kind of slowly. You see a guy go end to end.

you sort of get a sense of what he's doing. And that one was almost like it was over before you even realized what you'd seen. And you were just sitting there going, that didn't just happen, did it? Like, there must have been something I missed. And it was a great one. I still love the one he got against the Leaps where he just postered Morgan Riley

with the, you know, the fake look move and just went right around him. But, you know, for sure, I can't believe that just happened. I think this is number one on the McDavid list at least. Yeah.

And, you know, I love your, I think it was, I can't remember now if it was your Monday column or what column it was Sean when you said McDavid is actually just Mario Lemieux sitting on Pavel Burray's shoulders in a trench coat

like that. I mean that that's about summarizing it. It feels like so often these days when somebody does something great we immediately look at the other team and you're like yeah but this guy was out of position or what was this guy doing or the goalie blew it like I'm not even mad at the Rangers for that goal like I'm just looking at it going yeah like what should you have there was only four of you it wasn't fair you know it was

you know, what can you do? You know, and like I said, in the column, you just give them some orange slices and tell them it'll go better when they're playing against actual human beings next time. Yeah, I still think the greatest goal I've ever seen scored. I'm always a fan of the Mario Lemieux goal

in the Stanley Cup final. And maybe like Jesse said, context matters, because it's a Stanley Cup. But him going around, I think it was Sean Chambers in Minnesota, then John Casey,

to me is the greatest goal I've ever seen. but I know that other people would say, no, this was a better goal or that was a better goal. But that one, if you're asking me, I can watch one goal on a loop. I'm taking Super Mario. Yeah. And that goal and how impressive it was and just his body of work this season. I mean, he's been pretty incredible with 23 points and only 11 games. He's on pace for 171 points this season, which no one has scored 170 points in a season since Mario.

And I think that was 1989. So that was eight years before Connor McDavid was born was the last time somebody had 170 points in the season. It hasn't been, no one's topped 150 points since the early 90s. And that was Mario. And because of that pace and because of how impressive Connor McDavid has been, the money in Vegas and around the North America, I guess I can't just say Vegas anymore because everyone's gambling now. The money pouring in on Connor McDavid is kind of insane from. from and and it's not from a from a total money perspective because hockey isn't bet on nearly as

much as like the NFL or stuff like that. But in terms of percentage of handle, I just could not get over this number. So if you look at Hart Trophy betting over the last few weeks for the season, Connor McDavid has gotten 81.7% of the dollars bet on the Hart Trophy have been on him. The next closest player is Nathan McDavid. Kennan, who has gotten 8.6% of the handle. So 81 to 8. And just to put that in perspective, you look at some of the other trophies, Vezina. Shisterkin leads the way with 26% of the money bet. For Calder, Raymond leads it with 31%. The only one that's even remotely close to McDavid is the Norris

trophy, which is Kail McCarr has gotten 61% of the vote. So McDavid is getting over 80% of the vote. And that's with the odds being kind of ridiculous. I mean, he's plus 135 to win the Hart Trophy right now, which means you only win basically your money. And you don't, and then six months later, you get your money back with a little bit, I mean, we're barely doubling your money. We're not far above interest at this point. Yeah. It's, wow. Okay.

Right. You could literally put your money in a bank and the interest will almost pay you the same as Congress. The next closest. So he's plus 135. you're barely doubling your money. The next closest player is Nathan McKinnon at plus 800. Leon Drys Idol plus 800. Austin Matthews plus 1,400.

So these other players who are, I mean, his peers, and the closest things we have to peers, if you can even call anyone on Earth, Connor McDavid's peer at this point, are 8 to 1, 14 to 1. You can get Alex Ovechkin at 25 to 1 to win the Hart Trophy, and nobody wants to put their money on that.

They all want, basically I'll just take my money back with Connor McDavid at plus 1. 135. It's pretty insane. At this point, would you bet anyone but McDavid? No. I, no, I, I wouldn't. I feel like I was throwing my money away on anyone else. I'm not sure that I would bet McDavid either. I think I probably go and look at one of the other categories where I felt like I could hit on something. But yeah, I mean, barring an injury, eventually maybe the writers get bored to voting for the same guy year after year. That's the only other thing I can. he's stopping this guy.

Yeah. To me, this is probably the closest that we've seen somebody just toy with the league. Like, you know, the separation between McDavid and everybody else, this is what it must have been like with Gretzky and everybody else or Bobby Orr and everybody else. And for a time, Mario and everybody else. Like, I even think when Sid was at his absolute peak, I don't think the separation between Sid and say Alex Wofetskin or Gino or whoever,

I don't think the gap was as great as what we're seeing. And I think this is generational. I think you're like when you're telling me the odds on McDavid are plus 135 and the next guy's plus 800. That's mind boggling. Mind boggling. And even with those like to me, it's like you see those odds and you're like, well, obviously nobody's betting McDavid then.

Actually, that's all anyone is betting. And then the crazy thing is to like, Points, obviously, McDavid is so far ahead. When you look at just goals, there are guys who, like Ovechkin is right there with him. Leon Drysidal actually has more goals than McDavid does right now at the moment. But even Maurice Rocket Richard Trophy betting, McDavid leads the way. And he's a plus 325 to win that. He's the favorite at that.

Ovechkin, you can get him at 5 to 1, so a little bit better odds. Matthews, 5.5 to 1. Drysidal, 5 and a half to 1. What about that? Would you guys consider betting? I think that one is actually more of a discussion. There's actually a chance someone can score more goals than McDavid this year. It's probably going to be dry-sidal because of McDavid.

But what do you think about that? Is that quite as much of a runaway as the Hart Trophy is? Yeah, no, that's one that I would probably look at. Because I imagine going into the season, it was probably Matthews was, you know, number one. You look at what Ovechkins do. And yeah, there feels like there are some places there were, you could grab some value, especially if everyone's chasing McDavid there as well. I want no part of heart and I want no part of Art Ross because those are done.

But the goals, if you want to be a contrarian and kind of get off the McDavid train, that's your one realistic spot. The one thing you can't bet yet, I'm going to get this on the board by the end of the season. They have some crazy prop bets at BetMGM, but they haven't offered this one yet, but I'm telling you, I'm getting it. Connor McDavid and Leon Drysidal goals versus goals by the entire Coyotes team. Right now, the Coyotes have scored 21 total goals in 13 games. Connor McDavid and Leon Drysidal have only played 11 games.

So there are two games behind them. They have two games in hand. And they have 19 goals. So they are two goals behind the entire Arizona Coyote's team with two games in hand still. Who scores more goals this season? David and Drysidal or Arizona? Wow. That's, uh, that shouldn't be even remotely a question.

And it, it speaks to, uh, yeah, speaks to what's happening in Arizona and, and what's happening in Edmonton. Because, uh, yeah, I wonder, wonder what kind of bet you could get on that. That would be, that would be something. I mean, I can't imagine that Arizona's going to end the year with 120 goals or whatever they would have to, to finish up with. But geez, I don't know. And you know what?

that by the end of the year, I wonder how many goals they have on the roster, too, would be the other question. That, I wouldn't be shocked if it came in at a lower number, then what the two Oilers get. Because they're going to trade anyone who does for the deadline. Yeah, exactly. Somebody, you know, busts out for 20 goals. Okay, you flip them at the deadline. And, you know, that tends to be the way it goes. So I guess the last, the last thing I'll bring up in this ridiculous, just start for McDavid, is on a nightly basis, bet MGM offers, and this is kind of a new thing, just because of the widespread sports gambling across North America now is you can actually bet prop bets on individual games, pretty much on a nightly basis. Any game you want, you can go in and say,

I think this guy's going to get a point tonight. So they've got their over under for each player at 0.5 points, a half a point, essentially betting will they record a point tonight? Most guys, it's plus money to get a point because getting a point in the NHL is hard. Obviously, the stars on each team are minus money to get a point. But some guys, mainly McDavid, are scoring at such a ridiculous rate that they've actually bumped the point total up to one and a half. So he's got to get two points tonight. There are 11 games tonight.

Only four players have a prop of one and a half. And they are Brad Marchand, Posternak, Ovechkin, and McDavid. Marshan, Posternak, and Ovechkin are all plus. And it's pretty big plus. Marchant's plus 155, so you can win your money and a half, basically, back. Pasternak plus 175, so you're almost approaching two to one there for him to get two points. And Ovechkin is plus 165. Meanwhile, Connor McDavid is minus 125, meaning you would have to bet $125 just to win 100 on him getting two points in a night, which is, again, just shows how ridiculous that this player is and the pace that he's on.

It's incredible. It sounds ridiculous, but you know what? I'm looking at his game log right now, and he's played 11 games. Eight of those 11 games, he's had at least two points. He has had three points in four games, so more three-point games than one-point games. And if you're looking for zero-point games, keep looking. We're still waiting for him to be held off the board. So, yeah, this is, it's going to get to, you know, Ian, you're my age.

you probably remember the days where when you were doing a hockey pool, you couldn't draft Wayne Gretzky. Yeah. You had to draft Gretzky's goals or Gretzky's assists because it just, otherwise, it just broke the pool to have one guy. And I wonder if we're getting there with McDavid. And maybe that has to be, maybe that's the new prop bet. McDavid assists versus everyone who's not Leon Dorsetal in the league.

And the crazy thing is, like I was looking at, so I mentioned earlier, the last time somebody scored 170 points in the season was Mario Lemieux, and that was in 1989. What McDavid's doing now, to me, is so much more impressive because in 1989, there were, on average, 5.9 goals per game total. Just under six goals a game. Sorry, that's this season. This season, it's 5.9 goals per game. Back in 1989, when Lemieux did what McDavid's doing now, it was 7.5 goals per game. We're talking a huge difference in goals per game. It was so much harder. It's so much harder to score now than it was then. You're not seeing as many goals. You aren't seeing as many five to four games. And yet he's still putting up these incredible numbers.

Yeah. When you get to the adjust for error point totals by the end of the year, it's just going to be crazy where he's going to wind up if he keeps this up. It's amazing. Enjoy it if you're a hockey fan because it's been a long time since we've seen anything like this. Yeah. I've always said, I think he's the most talented player to ever play in the National Hockey League. We've never ever seen anything like Connor McDavid. And I'm glad that we're kind of getting to see him kind of at his, at his peak here, because it is really, it's generational what he's doing. It's like, it's like Bobby Orr. It's like, it's like Wayne and it's like Mario. Jesse Granger, this was, this was a lot of fun talking about the ridiculous season that Connor McDavid is having. Thanks for

this and we'll hit you up again next Thursday. Thanks for having me, guys. Thanks, Jesse. All right. So great to get Jesse Granger back in the fold and certainly fun to talk about Connor McDavid. Look, McDavid, like I said, generational talent, no questions asked. This guys, go ahead and size them up. He's going to be one of those players, I think, Sean, that they'll just waive the three-year entry period for the Hall of Fame down the road, right? Yeah, they don't do that anymore, or at least they said they wouldn't after Wayne Gretzky, but they might.

Do it for Sid, do it for Ovi, and do it for Connor McDavid. Like, what are you waiting for, right? Like, there's no reason when these guys hang them up, there's not going to be a lot of suspense. You're right. Yeah. But the guys I want to talk about is based on your column this week, which was all about the kind of bubble guys, right?

The Eric Stalls and the Corey Perry's, I think I agree with you. I think if Brad Marchand can have a couple more elite first line 80 to 100 point seasons, I think he gets there. The one I want to talk to you about is Jonathan Quick. and here's a guy who backstopped his team to a couple of Stanley Cup championships. But as I read your, you're kind of your breakdown of quick,

you were very, and I don't know, this is going to sound pun intended, quick to dismiss his case. You said he wouldn't get my vote. Now, help me out here. Like, why would Jonathan quick, like, why do we have such a hard time deciding which goal he should go in

and who shouldn't? And why would Jonathan Quick just be so, like, just not get your vote for the Hall of Fame? Yeah, as I say in the piece, the hockey hall fame is weird about goalies. They've set the bar very high. In fact, the fact that I cite a lot is that if you became a hockey fan of the NHL in 1972, nearly 50 years ago, you've only seen the debut of five goalies who went on to become Hall of Famers. That's it. In 50 years, five guys have shown up that were considered that are in the Hall of Fame right now. So, you know, on the one hand, you'd say, okay, well, they're not putting enough goalies in.

And I think there's a good case for that. Flipside is, by the time Jonathan Quick is on the ballot, Henrik Lundquist will be in, Roberto Luonga will be in. Mark Andre Fleury will either be in or be on the way. So, you know, maybe that's already been balanced out a little bit. To me, Jonathan Quick just didn't quite get there. And I'm using past tense. Obviously, he's still playing, but I think his prime years certainly are far behind him,

behind him, at least based on what we've seen in the last few seasons. This is a guy who never won a Vezina, had one Vesna caliber season, certainly a lot of people think he should have won in 2012. And people forget, 2012, he was fantastic in that playoff run to win the cup, but it didn't come out of nowhere. He was great start to finish. You want to say he was the best goalie in the league that year. I won't argue with you.

But that's pretty much it. The rest of his career, he had one other year as a Vesna finalist. He had some very good seasons. But I want to see one of two things from my Hall of Famers. I want to see ideally, I want a peak period where for four or five years you were right in the conversation for the best at that position, you know, hands down. Or I want to see the longevity where the. the numbers just get so high that it's like a Mark Recky or Dave Vanderchuk situation where you say, you know what, maybe you were never in the conversation is the very best, but you did it for so long.

And I just don't think Quick is going to get there in either category. You know, I know King's fans love him. I know that there was a time in 2012 and around that where you would have looked at him and said that this guy might be headed there. I just don't think he gets there. The interesting thing to me is, I think the best comparable for him, is Mike Vernon, who is another guy who won two Stanley. Cups, another guy who had a Con Smyth, another guy who got over 300 wins, but, you know, was

sort of in that good, but was he ever the very best? Maybe, but maybe not. And Vernon's a guy who's not in the Hall of Fame, but there does seem to be a little bit of a push. Eric Tujahach has made the case a few times. And, you know, maybe Vernon becomes one of those guys who we get surprised one year and he goes in. And if he does, that opens the door maybe more for Jonathan Quick, but I just, to me right now, and I'm always, I'm a bit of a stickler. I'm a tough yes on this stuff. I don't think Jonathan Quick has done it. Do you think so?

I mean, the fact that you're picking him tells me that you may be, you're on the Jonathan Quip. Yeah, like, I guess I just have a hard time with goalies, and I feel like if you backstop your team to two Stanley Cops, boy, that should at least get you into the conversation. Like, I don't know. Like I like I reading your piece

You're like okay Luongo's in for sure And Lungwis is in for sure And Peca Rine Probably might even have a better case than Quick And I'm like man I think We're forgetting about how good Jonathan Quick was at his peak

And I think like winning two Stanley Cups In a tight window Is pretty impressive to me But like you said If Mike Vernon Who won two Stanley Cups and kind of had a really You know Dominant career over you know

A decade if he's not in then, you know, all back and then, you know, and then you get into, you know, you're saying that you've got all the Chris Osgood fans happy now. Exactly. Because they're sitting there going, well, we got three Stanley cups. And, you know, the thing and, and the, another guy that people sometimes mention is Corey Crawford, where again, two cups in a short period of time. If you're going to put Quick in, you have to look at Crawford. And what's interesting with Jonathan Quick is I think certainly for Osgood, maybe even for Cory Crawford, there might be people would say, hey, that was a good goalie on a great team. And, you know, certainly you couldn't have won the cup with nobody back there, but you didn't need an elite guy.

And I feel like that's not the perception with the Kings. With the Kings, the feeling is when they were winning cups, Jonathan Quick was absolutely an integral piece of that. This wasn't a team, even though we knew that the analytics and everything told us they were a good team. This wasn't a team that you could just put a good goalie back there. You needed a great goalie. And, you know, certainly in 2012, he was, he was absolutely great. 2014, he actually wasn't phenomenal, at least by the numbers in the playoffs, but it was certainly good enough.

And, yeah, it's, it sort of gets into this fuzzy area of, you know, what, you know, how much did he have to do with it? What did it? I don't want to just get into cup rings because, again, like, Roberto Luong was a Hall of Famer. Henrik Lundquist is a Hall of Famer. I don't care whether they ever get a cup ring. And there are guys that have won cups where you kind of say, you know what, I don't want to put every cup winning goalie into the Hall of Fame either. But certainly, you know, Jonathan Quick, of those guys that we're talking about,

is the one guy where you could say, no, he didn't just tag along for a cup. He won a cup for his team in 2012 that they would not have won if there was anybody else in the league back there playing unlike what he did. That's where the case gets. And, you know, it is going to be a tricky one. But again, to me, he's a no, but I do see the case for the other side. Yeah. All right. Let's open up the mailbag here and take some questions from our listeners here.

A reminder, as always, you can reach us at the athletic hockey show at gmail.com, the athletic hockey show at gmail. Or drop us a voicemail. 845-4-45-8459. Let's open up, but you get a couple of them here. Brian writes in, hey, Brock Nelson and Patrice Bergeron each scored four times last Thursday night. Has there ever been two four-gold games on the same night before? And if so, do you know when this happened the last time?

That's from Brian. Yeah, so I did not know. And I looked it up and as best I can tell, maybe I've missed some. It's happened a few times. Most recently, I believe you would have to go back to, I think it was 2005. And it was game you might remember because it was the Ottawa Senators. Daniel Offerton and Martin Havillet both scored four goals in the same game. And there have been a handful of other games like that where two teammates have both done it because it's just, it's a blowout and they're just running wild on the other team.

There have also been a handful of games where a player on each side scored four goals in a game. And that's mostly you're into the 80s and early 90s with the crazy high scores. But this seems to be one of the very few times that two players in two different games had four goals. The last time I could find for that was 1996, March the 26th. Keith Kachuk scored four goals in Dallas for the Winnipeg Jets, and Maryle-Lamue had five goals, you know, win over the St. Louis Blues. And I went and checked, and there were two other games that night,

and those games also both featured Hattricks, one by Peter Bonder and won by Stefan Ritchie. So, I mean, there's your 90s NHL in a, in one sentence is three or more goals by Merrill Lemieux, Keith Kachuk, Peter Bonder, and Stefan Rishi. Back in the day that, you know, that 96 season, the last real high scoring season that we've ever seen in the NHL. Yeah. And, yeah, just a heck of a performance. And that Mario Lemieux game, it's funny. He had five goals, two assists, seven points.

And as soon as I saw that game, I remembered it because what I remember about that game is a fight between Tony Twist and Francoisler-Rue, where Tony Twist never lost. And he lost that fight. And people were like, oh, my goodness. And then we found out Francoe Leroux had his fist taped. And that's how he had cut him up. And it was a big thing. And there was, you know, fines and suspensions and all sorts of stuff. And it's just, it's funny to me that that's what I remember.

And the fact that somebody had five goals and seven points, you're like, oh, yeah, but it's Mario. that's just a Thursday for him. Yeah, just a random Thursday in the 90s for not bad. It was an okay game for him. I mean, you know, we can see more. You know, it's funny just to follow up on Brian's email into the show. A couple of weeks ago, I was covering a Washington Ottawa game

in which T.J. O'Shee, Drake Bathersson, each had a hat trick, and then Alexander Ovechkin had two goals, Sean, and was on the ice in the final minute looking for the empty netter. And I thought, oh my goodness. ever been an NHL game with three hat tricks in the same game. So I did look that up. And there's two that I could find. Okay. And I think you might even remember a little bit. Okay. One was LA and Calgary in a playoff game in 1990. Okay. Oh, wow. And they had hat tricks from Dave Taylor, Tony Granado and Thomas Sandstrom, all had hat tricks in the same game. But the other one I could find,

It's actually memorable for a different reason. It was the Edmonton Oilers at New Jersey in 1983. Wayne Gretzky, Yari Curry, and Willie Lindstrom. Okay? All had hat tricks. And if I'm not mistaken, Sean, that was after the game. That's when Wayne Gradsky famously called the New Jersey Devils a Mickey Mouse organization. Yeah, three guys with the hat tricks.

Yeah. Yeah, the famous Mickey Mouse game that, where. And it was because it wasn't the devil's goalie maybe was like a friend of Gretzky's. And he felt bad that they weren't putting a team in front of him. And he was getting lit up. And Devils fans started wearing Mickey Mouse ears to the games and stuff like that. Gretzky wasn't wrong. But it was one of the few times in Gretzky's career that he said something controversial.

And he heard about it because even back then you were never supposed to say anything interesting. So he learned his lesson. And I don't know that he said anything else. until his famous Olympic rant to 20 years later. All right. And one other email here from our listeners. CJ writes in, hey, guys,

what are the short-term penalties for a team that maybe falls below the salary floor or the league minimum? Would this result in forfeiture of games, things like that until they comply? If so, could this be used by a team looking to tank for a top pick? This came to my mind

when I was listening to your conversation last week with John Vogel, and he mentioned that Buffalo was potentially playing with the salary cap floor in the wake of the Jack Eichael trade. So that's CJ's question. What happens if you're, you know, we know the penalties for maybe being over. What are the penalties for being under? Yeah.

And that's, I mean, it's a confusing question because you do hear this a lot and you're right. It's usually when it comes to the ceiling. People say, well, what's the penalty? And there really isn't a penalty because you just, you can't. You cannot. But you almost basically every day you have to submit to the league, this is what our roster is. And if you're over the cap, then that can't be a roster. And guys just have to be moved off.

And there isn't really like a fine or this or that. It's just not a legal roster. And you have to fix it. As far as what would happen if a team was below and refused to address it and, you know, would that result in them forfeiting a game? Yeah, but potentially, I guess that would be a potential result. But if some team wanted to tank, well, why you just refuse to go to the floor and you forfeit every game? And, you know, that would be a situation where the league would absolutely not allow that.

Gary Bettman has pretty wide powers to deal with stuff like that. And I think if there was any suggestion that the team was doing that, they could probably kiss their first round pick and a lot more goodbye. So I don't think any of that is written into the CBA other than the section of the CBA that still gives Gary Bedman a lot of power to deal with the situations in the best interest of the league. So I think, okay, so now I kind of looked into this from the Ottawa perspective, because if you recall, in training camp, the senators were under the salary cap floor. And I asked around and I said, like, what, what's the penalty here if they're under? And the response I got back was any violation of the salary cap, whether it's at the ceiling or the floor,

will be deemed to be the same. So even though we look at salary cap issues mostly at the top end and think of the Tampa's and maybe Vegas and teams that might have to finagle to get under the cap, if you don't spend the minimum, the league looks at it the same way. It's cap circumvention,

even though it kind of runs counter to what you would think in your mind is cap circumviction. And especially when it comes to the cap floor, because, you know, let's be honest, if you're tight to the cap because you've got this packed roster, it can be difficult to make the maneuvers to get under. If you're on the floor, there's a ton of guys out there who have just paper cap hits that you could, you know, be trivial, easy to, you know, you call Tampa.

Give me Brett Seabrook. And now you're at the floor that way. So I think any team that was refusing to do that or pushing back on it would be dealt with with not a whole lot of patience from the NHL. Let's wrap up, as we always do, with a little this week in hockey history. And why do we do a little goalie theme here, okay? This week in hockey history, November the 10th, 1962. November 10th, 1962, Sean, Glenn Hall, Chicago Blackhawks, Hall of Fame goalie,

has his consecutive game streak and at a remarkable 502 games. I ask you this. Of all the Ironman streaks we know of in sports, you think of Cal Ripkin, you think of, you know, whatever streak you want to think of,

Brett Far have had an unbelievable one in the NFL, you know, obviously Doug Jarvis in the NHL, although that one is potentially in jeopardy, is Glenn Hall playing 502 straight games, essentially most of them, if not all of them, without a mask. Most impressive Iron Man streak in sports history? It's certainly the most unbreakable. I mean, that's the one.

I know it's almost impossible to imagine anyone coming close to Cal Ripkin's streak, but it's at least within the realm of possibility, whereas in this, the sport has changed to the point where goalies, you know, goalies don't play back-to-backs, let alone a full season, let alone playing a full season seven years in a row or whatever you would have to do now. I think you have to go back to that 96th season with the Grant Fier and the Blues was the last time a team even tried to put the same goaltender out there for every single game. And that at the time was remarkable because it had been so long since we've seen it. So yeah, I mean, it was a different sport back then.

And, you know, frankly, he shouldn't have been playing that many games in a row. But back then that was just how it's done. you will, you know, that's one of the few records where you look at it. The number is, you know, what is it, 502? 5002, yeah. Not only will nobody break that record, it's quite possible that we will never again see anyone get 10% of the weight of that record. Like 50 straight games for a goaltender, I don't know that we will ever see that,

let alone get close to it. And, I mean, that's pretty remarkable when you're 10 times past what anyone else will ever get to again. That's when you've really got a ridiculous record. Yeah. And the fact that the fact that Hall's ritual before every game was he would get ready and he would vomit.

Like he would throw up. From nerves. Like he was a mess. And you know, again, like we kind of tell that story as, you know, this fun little piece of hockey lore. And maybe we shouldn't because we should maybe look back like, oh my goodness, what were we doing to this guy?

but yeah, I mean, it was a different world and a different league. And we will never see anything remotely like it. Yeah. Okay. One other this week in hockey history, and this one's near and dear to your heart. It involves goalies. It's the 25th anniversary of Ron Hextall skating about 200 feet down to the other end of the rink to take on Felix Potvin in a game between the Maple Leafs and the Flyers there

in the in the mid 90s. And I got to say, I remember seeing the highlights of this and not knowing how it would play out. I'm like, oh, man, Felix Potvan's going to get smoked. Here comes big bad Ron Hexel. Man, Felix Potvan won the fight. Like, absolutely. Right?

Like, it's one of the most remarkable turn of events for me because I thought this was, I thought this was a mismatch. And Felix Potvin not only hung in there, I think he won the fight. I still remember to this day. This is, this is 96. So I'm away at college, and this was before, you know, we had the internet, but there was no YouTube. There was no easy access to video of any kind. And I remember sitting in a computer lab with a couple of friends and leaf fans and checking the box score to find out how the game had gone against Philadelphia and seeing that they, I think they lost the game, but whatever, who cares.

And then looking, you know, back in the day, that's what you did. You looked, said, okay, what was the score? Who got the goals? Were there any fights? And, you know, scrolling down and then just seeing this list of fights at the end going, oh, man, something broke out. And then seeing Hextel, Potvin, five-minute fighting majors. And we just all looked at each other and went, the least need a new goaltender. Because if Felix Potvin ended up in a fight with Ron Hextel, he must have gotten destroyed.

I mean, Felix, Hextel was considered the baddest guy of the goaltenders. And Felix Potvin was, you know, this quiet, honest, you know, kid who never, you know, you almost never got involved in any. anything. And, you know, it was, it was only like, you know, we had to go somewhere and find the highlights and, you know, we're watching them probably say, you might have been there going, like, this is crazy. How did this happen? And I remember I actually found a way to get, this is, this is how long ago it was. I found somebody who had the VHS tape online and I got them to send it to me so that we would like have it to actually, you know, kind of review it in more detail. And yeah, good old Felix. I mean, he didn't start it. It was, it was Hectoral went all the

way down the ice and it wasn't a super one side of fight but hextel was the one who got busted open and i i still remember um dug gilmore sitting on the bench like sitting literally like on the on the edge of the bench watching and tie domi had been kicked out and he came back to the ice and was pointing at his face at hextol telling him that he got busted open and it was it was very memorable i mean it's you're talking goalie fights it's it's that one and it's it's won vernon are are the two that to kind of stand head and shoulders. But, and of all the things, on the 25th anniversary, we had a Toronto Flyers, you know, at least Flyers game. Yeah.

And, you know, nobody, there's no ceremony. They didn't, they didn't invite the two guys to, you know, to come to the game. I totally missed that it was even the anniversary until just this morning. But missed opportunity. I think you should have invited both guys. tell them they're being honored at a centerized ceremony, don't tell them the other ones there, and then just have them both start at each end,

and they got whoever gets to the center first, and they go deal with it again, get the rematch. I'm guessing Ron Hextel has probably been itching for a rematch for a long time, because he didn't get into all that many of those considering how much other trouble he got into, and that one didn't go well for him. No, I'm curious.

Like what would the reception be for Pittsburgh Penguins GM Ron Hextall if he gets announced welcomed in the Philly right now? Cheers. Yeah, that's true. I don't know. I think mostly cheers, no? Like they have to say welcome back former Flyers goalie Ron Hexel. They can't say welcome Penguin's general manager Ron Hextall, right? Yeah, you would do that.

And look, I mean, he was the Flyers GM. Like, it's not like he shunned them to go off to Pittsburgh. You know, they pushed him out first. But yeah, that might get a little dicey. You'd want to do it now. Don't wait until the playoffs where those two teams might be lining up against each other. Yeah. All right.

And by the way, is the last goalie fight that we had in the NHL? Was it Ray Emery and Braden Holpey? Like, have we had a fight? Remember where Ray Emery fought Great Holby? We have had since. I think the last one was the, the Flames Oilers game a year or two ago, wasn't there one of those.

But yeah, there haven't been many. And that was kind of the one where I think some people were like, oh, this is maybe this is, you know, getting a little silly where you've got some of these guys that don't really know what they're doing.

And Ray Amory obviously very much did know what he was doing. And that one was very one-sided. But yeah, there haven't been many since. but every now and then you still get one. But yeah, no, nothing. You talk about the great what-ifs. The night that Ron Hextel lost it and attacked Chris Chelyos,

you know who the goalie at the other end of the ice was, right? It was Patrick Waugh. I mean, there's your Batman versus Superman of goalie fights, and it never happened. Patrick didn't make his way down. But, yeah, that's not, that's an art. art form that I think is slowly but surely leaving the game. Yeah.

And that was after Hexol was mad that Chellios hit Brian Prop in the beginning of that series. But a weird situation because it was like the game, it was the deciding game of the series and the game was still up for grabs. Like it wasn't a 10-1 blowout or something. It was like a two-goal lead or something. And he just picked that spot to do it. And that was the end of the season.

Yeah, he was unhinged, unhinged in that moment. All right. We'll leave it there. Listen, this was fun as always. And we look forward to, what do you got in the hopper here from the print side coming up here? We got any quirky fun stories that we should be promoting? I don't know about quirky and fun, but I'm continuing my Hall of Fame theme. And as people who read me know, I have a habit of occasionally deciding on something I'm going to do.

And even though I know I'm going to regret it. And so I decided this week to rank every Hockey Hall of Fame class ever from worst to best. And there's a lot of them, as you might imagine, 68 to be exact. So 68 classes of hockey Hall of Fame inductions, worse to best. And it'll be a ranking to argue about, but really it's a chance to kind of go over the history. And I'm willing to bet people will learn a few things. and I hope you do, but if you just want to jump into the comments and yell at me because number seven should have been number eight, then you can go ahead and do that too. Yeah.

There's no potential for any years where they had rhyming inductees, the best rhyming. I'll get on it. Let's get the intern on that. Yeah, exactly. We can figure that out. Yeah, all right. We'll leave it there. And hey, listen, if you have any questions for us, like those ones we took at the mailbag, fire them our way.

The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com. You can also leave us a comment on our podcast page. We love that. I know the Tuesday guys, Gentile and Custins, they like to dominate that. But by all means, jump in there. Leave us a comment there. We also get those. And if you're not a subscriber with The Athletic,

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