The Athletic Hockey Show - Bobrovsky's Panthers vs Shesterkin's Rangers kicks off the Eastern Conference Final

Episode Date: May 22, 2024

Gentille, McIndoe and Frankie Corrado look back on the surprising Canucks and the quick re-tool in Vancouver the guys discuss Dallas and Edmonton's Western final, the Stars depth and what Stars defenders will shadow McDavid? The Sean's present what they learned, with the first two rounds being very predictable, they preview game one between Bobrovsky's Panthers and Shesterkin's Rangers, Jim Hiller's extension's with the LA Kings, the Ryan McDonough trade, which sends him back to Tampa Bay from Nashville and we provide an update on the men still standing in the 'old guy without a cup' race. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Welcome, welcome, welcome. It's Wednesday. It's Sean. Him. It's Sean me. It's Frankie Corado eventually. This is the athletic hockey show.

Hope everyone's doing well. DGB. Good evening. How you doing it? You ready for round three? I was going to say. Did you enjoy your night off? not really

I ended up at a casino uh oh it's a long story the fact that you didn't lead off with that story when we first to connect this morning tells me it didn't go great yeah

now I I uh and my buddy was there for a work function so I went to watch basketball and uh lost my allotted amount playing blackjack not great

um are we ready for the for the conference final round. I feel like we had maybe one too many days in between Rangers and Panthers. I'm trying to get myself up to talk about it because we have to. The game once tonight, obviously. But getting a game seven in round two was obviously important.

And the fact that we got the Edmonton, Vancouver game seven was great. But it would be kind of nice if we were already a game into New York, Florida by now. But you asked if I'm ready. Yeah, I'm ready. Because we've all been ready for this exact final four all year. And this is, you know, my, what did I learn? What have we learned, Sean? I learned that this was a bad year for me to launch a playoff prediction contest

with the intent of showing all my readers how dumb they are so that I could then make fun of them afterwards for getting it completely wrong. You could make the case that all 12 series have gone according to what we should have expected. The only, the higher seed is tended to, the only exceptions being Colorado beating Winnipeg, which I think a lot of people would have picked, just given Colorado's recent history, and then Edmonton beating Vancouver just now, which I know for a fact, Edmonton was the favorite that whole season, or sorry, the whole series in terms of the odds makers, in terms of who people were picking. You know, that one wasn't a surprise.

And I'm seeing all these people on Twitter, like my final four is alive. And, you know, I think I'm supposed to say, great job. What I'm really thinking is you coward. You went complete chalk on the final four. But it's worked. There are definitely, I guarantee there are some unbusted brackets out there. There have to be. Because it has been, you know, there have been obviously little surprises and plot twists and, you know, all that stuff throughout the playoffs.

It's been a very interesting postseason. But in terms of where we wound up, who's Cinderella here? There isn't one. They're all home. It's when you're, it's when you're driving somewhere. You maybe make a wrong turn or you take, you take the second option on the route. But you get, you get to where you're going. Yeah.

anyways and that kind of that kind of feels like where we're where we're at the only one i like i really think if you were to and and i mean this isn't even a guess because i've got you know i did the playoff contest i've got the you know i can look at the data the the only mild surprise and i'm putting an underline on mild because i don't need any more ammo in that nobody believes in this card but i do think a slight majority of people were picking carolina to come out of the metro instead of the Rangers. I was and I think that kind of brings me into what I've learned over the last few days. I don't think I can pick the Rangers. Like I figured there would be some point during the playoffs where they were going to be my pick in a series and I'm not there. I picked against him.

Picked against him. Picked against him. What are you not seeing? Because I feel like at this point, we are very close to a situation where the Rangers are going to be the first team in history to win the president's trophy and the Stanley Cup in the same season and still be a nobody believed in us as underdogs yeah and it's I'm broken in one way or another I don't know if it's just like I don't know if it's just computer we're two rounds in what it is I'm not sure I think it's more of a testament I just I love the Panthers I think that's kind of I think that's kind of where I'm on it I mean it's it's not about anything that the Rangers are aren't doing. I just, I, I, I look at the Panthers roster and I look, and I, and I look at the way it

all shakes out. I'm just like, I like, I like, I like, I almost wish that I didn't because I feel like, I'm, like, I truly almost pick the Rangers in this series just to go against my gut, because it clearly isn't working with them, right? Which is crazy, because they had 114 points during the regular season. Yeah, I'm an idiot. I'm an idiot. It's, yeah. And, uh, Igor Shasturkin playing well. I mean, I guess that's part of what always makes the Panthers hard to predict, is are you getting playoff, Sergei, or are you getting the last six years, Sergei, other than that one playoff run?

And to his credit, I don't buy into the idea that there's playoff goalies and not playoff goalies and, you know, all that stuff. But he's making me look bad because he looks like a guy who can at least bring the goaltending matchup to a draw. Yeah. And then, you know, from from there, where does it go? But I mean, the Rangers, they've been better five on five. They're not doing the whole, like, we can only score on special teams.

They're definitely not. Which is good because you don't want to do it. We look at this and say this is probably going to be a long series. You don't want to be relying on your power play in a series. It's going to go six or seven games because the referee stopped calling penalties in game six and seven. So, um, building's going to be rocking. It's a very famous arena, I've been told. Hey, I think they, don't, don't they market it as like the third or fourth most famous

are in the world. Isn't that their thing? It's the sixth most famous arena in the world. How much is it, how much does it mean to you, Sean, to be watching a playoff game at Madison Square Garden in it? So much. Yeah, I, it's, you know, we've seen, you said it, you know, all the signposts that I could have wanted the Rangers that hit they have. I don't think it was unreasonable

even going into the playoffs, given the season they had to say, I need to see a little bit more, I need to see it in a little different mix. But we're two rounds in. They're eight wins away from Cup number two in the last 80-plus years. I'm just a born hater.

I think part of it honestly is like, I got yelled at for this opinion, but I really saw the exact series that I wanted to see from Alexander Barkup where he was he what he wasn't just him eating tough minutes and being like solidly productive it was he was the best player on the ice on both ends and it also translated to a bunch of goals in that in that last series for them so I look at that and I'm like the dude is leveled up I look at Verhege and Kachuk who are just you know great players who are also weird you know demonstra you know demonstra

I'm also tribally clutch at this time of year at this point, both of them. It's just, it's tough for me to pick against Florida. But again, I feel, I feel bad about it. I feel stupid about it. It's not new. I feel bad and stupid about plenty of stuff. How much of this do you think is you, maybe even subconsciously defending yourself from the inevitable Rangers Oilers, Stanley Cup final, and the influx of Martin Messier into your life.

I had that thought when he was doing post game. I was trying to think of some joke to make about it, but I couldn't quite get there. When he was doing post game for Canucks Oilers, I'm like, this is, you know, legendary Canuck, Mark Messier shows his bias against the, against the Edmonton Oilers or whatever. It'll be the, if it ends up being Rangers Oilers, it'll be the Mark Messier Stanley Cup presented by Mark Messier.

Yeah, exactly. He just votes on who wins it. They don't actually play any of the games. Yeah, he just decides that he likes a certain guy. And then Kevin Lowe shows up in the background and somehow also gets a piece of it. And yeah, I mean, it's a fun thing to do every year is to like when you get the cup final matchup, you go, what famous players play for both teams? The problem is they all did back then. Like every single.

Six, seven teams. Yeah, it was like you did. Yeah, like, you know, Jeff St. McTavish, Ticken in. Yari Curry, I think, wound up in New York for a brief. But it was like the Oilers was like going to college. And then you went and did your Ph.D. for the Rangers in 1994 and got one more cup that way. Glenn Anderson, another one on down the list.

I hope everybody liked this Rangers, Panthers talk because we didn't hit on any of it with Frankie coming up. It was a lot of Canucks. It's a lot of great stuff from him. you know, in a lot of different areas, but especially, especially on the West. So let's get to that and we'll be right back. All right, Frankie's here in a very, very crispy piece of Maple Leaf's official apparel today. You're not supposed to say that. Like, you know, I'm not supposed to say I'm wearing team issued apparel.

It's supposed to be, you know, behind the scenes kind of stuff here. Yeah, absolute Homer podcast. Like the Leafs don't get enough. Yeah, it's Frankie. It's from the Toronto media. It's Frankie in a generic NHL T-shirt. Fine. He's wearing the Roblo, like, NFL, NFL hat version of.

All right. So, like, this is apparel that I got when I played for the team. So I feel like this is just, if you had an old hoodie or an old t-shirt from eight years ago kicking around, you would just put it on. But I will say that, like, you know, people think you just are swimming in, like, team-ish, shirts, hoodies, jerseys, like all these kinds of things. Like, it's actually a little harder to come by. Like, if you were playing for the team, like I was playing for Toronto, you get sent down to the Marleys, clear waivers get sent down to the Marleys, they keep all that stuff with

the Leafs. So you don't actually get to take it with you. And then when you finish the year with the Marleys, you almost have to like pick up the phone and be like, hey, can I get like my shirt and shorts and hoodie? Can I, like, can I have it? Because they keep it there saying, you know, if you get called up, we're going to have it here for you. So you're not responsible for it.

But you don't actually like, you're not swimming in this stuff. So when you have it, you kind of hold on to it. It's got some sentimental value to it. Like don't you guys have maybe, I don't know, a couple boxes of those laying around where maybe I can have two sweatshirts. I don't know. Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment is a very low budget operation. They really are counting pennies in and out.

It's not just the Leafs. It's every team. Like you kind of like you go into the equipment. room and if you want a new shirt, you ask the equipment guy, like, hey, can I have a new shirt? You know, it's not like, you don't just go through rifling through it and grab a million things. And the jerseys is even weirder with teams. Like, I don't know what it is. Every team is a little bit different.

Most teams will give you a jersey at the end of the year. But when I played in Toronto, it was under the Lou Lamarillo rule of no one gets a jersey. So this is ridiculous. Why? What are they doing with? Are they like, do they want to auction this stuff? I'll tell you. I'll tell you exactly what they do with these things.

So the year I, the first year I was there, the year we finished last, it was the 99th season. So I don't know. It's not 100. It's 99. What are you possibly doing with these jerseys? So I actually asked if they could make me a jersey and I bought it, like not a replica, like a game issued jersey, just make it up for me. So I paid for it.

And then years later, I was walking through the gallery of the Scotia Bank Arena. And I said, I'm going to stop into real sports. Just see what's going on in there. What have they gotten there? I stop in and I see they have like a game worn section. And I start rifling through and I see 20 Corrado. And I'm like, what the hell is going on over here? And I had gotten even messages from people prior to that, you know, at the Marley's game,

they were selling my 2015, 2016 jersey. So I sent a couple texts. I'm like, dude, I will buy this jersey. I just want it. So they were really nice. Mike Dixon of the Marleys when I was playing for, I can't remember who I was playing for. It might have been Belleville. I showed up to the arena and Mike Dixon, who is the team services guy for the Marleys,

he had my jersey, my 2015-2016 Leifes jersey in a bag in my stall. It was awesome. It was like a, you know, nice to be reunited with that. And it had the puck marks and the, you know, all that kind of stuff. But then the jerseys from the next season, I walked into real sports. I go, excuse me. is there any way I could like have this jersey? Like I'm that guy on the jersey. And like the poor lady employee looking like she's looking at me like, what the hell is talking about? I said, you know,

I don't want to sound like a D bag. Is there like whoever's in charge here? Maybe we can for the jersey. So ended up buying both my white and my blue at like a, you know, a discounted price. And now I have, I got my jersey the day. Like I got one. six years later and five years later essentially. This cracks me up because, dude, before I got into doing this as a job, I worked for a broke-ass software company that was a week away from going out of business

for like 14 years. And we could not get them to stop throwing shirts. And like every random product that came out, the next day there were shirts and just merch all over our chain. Yeah, it's like, don't ask. But you know what, don't ask for a raise or anything. I don't have that many rooms in my house to paint.

Get out of here with this. And I love the fact that you're, did anybody ever try to like smuggle the hoodie out of the building to get it down to the minor leagues? Because I would watch that heist movie. Yeah, the hoodie is a little more noticeable because you got like one hoodie. You could say, you could, you can do the t-shirt and just say, hey, it must have fell out of my gitch bag in the laundry. Can't find it. You know, it's a smaller item.

The hoodie kind of stays with you all season long. But I will say like the Vancouver, the way they do things is really cool. After your first NHL game, you show up to the rink the next day. There's your jersey washed in your stall, ready to go. You get to keep that one. They do up a new one for you and that one never gets worn again. I thought that was really, really classy by them. So I have my Vancouver first game one.

That one still lives at my parents' house. But listen, there was a lot of players in Vancouver this year who would have had that happen for them, who played their first game as a Vancouver Canucks, showed up to the rink the next day and had that jersey sitting there. And I kind of wonder now, is there going to be a lot of players next year who are having that experience happen to them? Like, there could be a lot of turnover there within that group. There's some players that are due for some new contracts that are going to get pay raises.

that team was really aggressive with the way they tried to do things. And, you know, there's the potential for there to be a lot of turnover there. Doesn't make it a guarantee. But that team could look different. And there's going to be high expectations on that group next year. Yeah, because we got Besser whose deal is, he's got one year left. So Dorov's up, Heronics and RFA with Arb Wright's Dakota Joshua's up. He's going to get up.

He's going to be like, he's, he's, he's not going to get paid an extreme amount of money, but I think there's going to be a lot of teams that want his services. Doesn't he seem like a dude who's going to get like term, maybe not Aavis, someone's going to be like, here's four years and $9 million or something where he can lock in for a nice chunk and get the deal he's been working because he's a UFA. He's he's 28. Like he's he walked right up to it.

Well, and think about what, like, he played really well in the playoffs. And, and, you know, I think a lot of teams now will look at a guy like that and say, like, we want that because we think we're a playoff team. And, you know, when he was playing with Lindholm and Garland, even when he was playing with Bluger and Garland, like, that was a really good line. Like, here's, here's some of the notable UFAs for Vancouver. It's Lindholm, Bluger, Lafferty, Joshua, Myers, Zedorov, Ian Cole, Casey to Smith. there's a lot of good players there and there's a lot of useful players there and there's a lot of players that are going to want to pay raise

like Elias Lindholm makes 4.85 you know what does his next contract start with can Vancouver afford to pay him and Joshua and Myers and Heronic on what he wants there's a lot of defensemen specifically too because we've seen that it's taking years for them to get their defense

back in a spot where it's you know, playoff caliber, we'll say. Oh, 100%. The fact that that was a good group this year after all of the hoops that they've had to jump through because of cap stuff and whatever for the last few years, the fact that it was a good group is kind of wild. But now, you know, there's a lot of band-aids there too. There were short-term, you know, moves to kind of make it a legit group. And now they're all up. Well, and JD brought up a good point before we hopped on.

Like, Vancouver makes the trade. for Heronick last year. They trade a first round peck. And a lot of people, I think, raised an eyebrow at that saying, like, what are you doing? You're not a team that's in a position to be trading first round pecks. And it was a home run all season long. Heronic and Hughes, one of the best D pairs in the NHL. Hughes is probably going to win a Norris.

And Heronic had, you know, he had a significant role in that. Now, he wants a lot of money. And I kind of wonder if Stevie Y, like, he's a smart guy. I wonder if he was looking at what the future holds for that player and says, I can see this going down that road and I might want to get something for him now before we get there. I don't know. I don't know if he's playing 3D chess like that, but it would explain why Detroit moves on from a guy like that when he more is in the category of what they needed at that time.

That was a head scratcher for me on both accounts between Detroit and Vancouver at the time. That was that weird week where they went into Detroit, went into Ottawa, played back-to-back games, got their doors kicked in, and Eisenman was immediately like, I give up, we're not a playoff team. We sell, wave the white flag. It was pretty wild. We mentioned a little bit, but what do you think that happens with Zedorov? Because he looked like a fantastic fit there, especially in the playoffs. He was like that every year at the deadline, there's two dozen defensive defensemen, big physical. guys that are supposed to be playoff hockey guys.

He actually looked like he fit that, that role. They're just a huge guy throwing guys into benches and stuff like that. Is it a great fit in Vancouver or is that something that some other GM sees that and goes? You know what? This is a $5 million a dollar a year guy. Brad Tree Living. I mean, you know, maybe somebody who used to have this guy on his roster. I don't know.

Just some random GM out there. Yeah. you did a great job. And I think that like the question Vancouver is going to ask themselves now is if you had to overpay Heronic or you had to overpay Zadorov, which one do you do? Like let's say you had to give a million dollars more to one of those guys. Like Zadorov looked really good. He's also a third pair guy. He played well with Ian Cole, who's who's, I would call, you know, a stabilizer defenseman, although he struggled in the series. Like he is more of like a, you know, he's a stabilizing kind of guy.

I played, like when I played for Pittsburgh for that very short period of time, he was my D-partner for probably five games. I loved playing with Ian Cole. Knew exactly where he was going to be all the time, knew exactly what to expect. Guy, like, so Zedorov looks good in that situation. You take him out of that spot, you put him with someone who's maybe a little more erratic,

maybe someone who's not as defensively sound. All of a sudden, maybe Zadorov tries to do a little too much. And I think we've seen that in Calgary with him, which was probably a little bit of the, the buyer beware, you know, when he came to trading for a guy like that. Now, because that was Trilivin traded for him. Yeah. After he watched him, you know, dismantle, maybe not dismantle, but he played, he played

McKinnon really hard. And that, and now, that was something that resonated. Yeah. And, and now, like, you know, Rick Tocke had the little bit of a head start the previous year with that group to kind of see what was under the hood and what he wanted. And by all accounts, it sounds like he said he wanted big, tall, rangy defensemen. So Alvin and Rutherford went out and they did that. You know, they signed Susie.

They had Myers there. They signed Ian Cole. They bring in Zadourop. It's exactly what Talkit wanted. So now, you know, he's going to want that again next year. So how much more are you willing to pay to keep that around when you're familiar with the guy? So, you know, they're going to have to make some tough decisions based on the salary cap. but I kind of wonder if the tie goes to Zedorov in that situation because of how he fits what Tocuit wants to do and how he wants to play.

One guy that does not need a new contract because he got it already is Elias Pedersen. And he might be pretty glad right now that he got that deal done before the playoffs rolled around. Where are we at on him as a franchise level difference maker superstar? I'm not low on him yet because this is his first kind of foray into real playoff hockey. And he was good when he was in the bubble. So I think, you know, you have the bubble experience that's a positive one. This one's certainly not a positive experience. He played better the last, you know, couple games, I guess.

But that doesn't mean anything because you lose those games. With him, he obviously needs to really drive the bus. Like he's got to be talk it is always all over him, but move your feet, move your feet. Like he's always saying that. Like, and it's true. You watch him play when he doesn't play well. It's a little stagnant. He doesn't necessarily want the puck as much as he does when he's playing confident.

I still think there's more runway for him to prove that he can play in the playoffs, whereas other guys have been doing it for eight years and haven't been able to do it. Like I think he's still at the point where you can kind of say like, let's, let's, let's see what he's got. And I, I'm a fan of his game, but he needs to be able to go head to head with a guy like McDavid and Talkett. It wanted nothing to do with that matchup because Pederset was going to get eaten alive. And I think also a lot of that has to do with how great J.T. Miller played.

Like J.T. Miller was in that line specifically with Besser and Souter. That was the one constant you knew you were getting from Vancouver quality hockey every night from those three. And J.T. Miller did great in that matchup role. and he kind of like he relished that role right from the beginning of the year and never really looked back on it. Miller is a player whose his career arcs been fascinating to me because he comes up with the Rangers and what is he's like a middle six winger and then he ends up he has like little he has a foray in Tampa and that doesn't that doesn't really work.

But to see, you know, the kind of guy that he's settled into being over the last couple years I will say it too. I hated that contract when they signed it. I said, this is a huge mistake. And then remember there was that year, because it was one of those deals where he signed the big extension and he still had a year left on his deal. And I was like, you got to, you got to offload this. You have a year to get out of this before it kicks in and everything. And, you know, would they trade them?

Would they move them? And they didn't. And I went, this is a huge mistake. And I guess this is just my way of saying I'm very stupid and nobody should listen to me. because it's not true. It's been a monster. It's been fantastic. That goes to show you like when a player really wants to turn things around and dial

it in and they have all the skills and all the tools, they can do it. Like I think last year, you know, on Saturday night, hockey night, they had that one highlight package of J.T. Miller, straight legs, back check in, you know, no real effort banging his stick on the boards. Like I don't think he liked how that there was that perception of him. And maybe something about Talkit and the way he communicates to play. players, like maybe he was able to get the most out of JT and get through to him because this guy came back this year and he, it was like, I want to be the matchup guy. I want all the, the greasy

kind of grungy minutes. Like, I want to be in the muck. And he really relished that. And that was, you know, I think going back to that time when it was like Horvatt was there, Miller was there, they prioritized Miller. Like, I still think Horvats a very good player. And at the time, I was like, why would you push Horvatt to the side like that? But at least, you know, it doesn't necessarily vindicate things because I still don't like the way things played out with Horvat there. But at least now it softens the blow a little bit. And I think, you know, fans are, fans are very okay there with what J.T. Miller brings.

And he's become, man, he's become like a real fan favorite there to the point where they're talking about him in the list of, you know, the Canucks all-time great. rates and and he he really did that with his performance this year and also like from a i mean this is obviously a much less tangible kind of thing but from an attitude standpoint from a vibe standpoint he's a nice counterbalance of peterson because he's like you know he's got that it like it pops on tv you talk to him it comes through like he's got he's got some dog in him for better or worse. And I think that was, you know,

that's been a thing, a thing to get the levels, right? I would say like over the course of the last however many years, but it seems like it's where it needs to be now. So you can see if that's something they're considering when they're like, we like having this guy around for a longer chunk of time because he brings that element, you know, to the mix in terms of personality. It's like, that has to be a consideration, right? you can kind of tell, like if you're, you know, if you're, the coaches don't live in the dressing

room, right? They're in their office. They come in for their meetings. They might hang around, have a couple side chats, but you can kind of tell who's got the energy in the room and who doesn't. You can tell as a player too. Like, let's say if you're just kind of sitting around in a different room, you're in the player's lounge, you're in the equipment room, you come back in. Everyone's in a main area. You can tell who's kind of like, you know, a little bit of a shell, a little bit turp up, and you can tell who's got the big energy and who's kind of, you know, holding court in the room and who's got the confidence. I just, I have a feeling when you got guys around that are really in tune with the game and in tune with the dynamics of a dressing room, that would have been pretty evident, I would think. You know, like JT's probably talking to this guy, talking to that guy.

You know, I think some of the stuff maybe on the bench at times, it seems like it's, you know, maybe a little too far. But, you know, there was another great example of Dakota Joshua this year. You know, he's coming off the ice. JT's, you know, he's talking to him. We don't know what he's saying. We don't know the tone. But he's talking. He's like, it didn't seem positive.

Right. But maybe, maybe Joshua was a player who appreciates that. And maybe the group, you know, knows that, you know, this is a guy who's, he's very invested in the battle and we need to be very invested in the battle as well. Like, that's where accountability lies for me as well. accountability is not just, hey, don't mess up, you know, do better, whatever. It's like, okay, take care of your own backyard first. And I think he did that this year.

So there was a lot of, you know, there was a lot of accountability towards himself before he was kind of sending it outwards. All that stuff carries so much more weight when it's coming from a guy that's producing in one way or another, whatever form that takes. Like if the on-ice stuff is matching, you know, the yapping or whatever, it, all of a sudden, like something that seems like it might have been a problem turns into, turns into a plus. What does it do in a room with like a young captain like Quinn Hughes, who at least externally

doesn't seem like that type of leader, the, you know, the kind of like throw you against a wall and screaming your face sort of guy? Does that, does that help? Does he get to be like the good cop a little bit? Or is it like, you know, that, that it's support? Or does it undermine him a little bit in somebody's? No, I think I think you're 100% right. I think he gets to be the the good cop in a way. And I think it almost helps Quinn Hughes in the sense that when he does talk now, it's, people will listen a little bit. Like if you're the captain and you're really raw, raw, I think that's great. But there's, there's something to be said for, you know, you lead by example. And when you talk, people listen. And, and that's, I always felt like that was the most effective

way. Listen, the player who wears the sea on the jersey on any given team, players are going to listen regardless. Like, it's a, it's the right thing to do. But, you know, with J.T. Miller being, you know, having his backyard clean and playing well and not being afraid to, to kind of hold court with guys, I think that that just allows Quinn to play his game, which is a very unique style of game. And from, from there, you know, the stuff in the dressing room, it's like, if J.T. he's going to talk about things, then Quinn can just kind of settle in and say, all right, boys, like, let's go here. I don't know the exact verbiage of it, but it just, it feels like he could just slide in and do his thing and lead by example. I think some of it, too, is as simple

as JT being five, six, it's however many years older than Quinn and all those guys. Like he, the Quinn Pedersen best like all those guys they came up together to an extent and Miller's like just old enough

and just separated enough from it where I think he's bringing a little bit of a different energy that you know he's not necessarily part of that group of dude right like he was doing other stuff

when they were 19 and 20 and 21 getting drafted like he is a little bit of a outside edition that I think at times might have, you know, when it, and again, if you're losing games, like that stuff all of a sudden is a problem. But once you win a, you win a playoff round and everybody talks about it like a plus. It's just a fascinating mix of, you know, mix of stuff for the future. Well, the thing, the thing with that too, it's like, think about the guys that J.T. Miller has played with over the years.

Whereas, you know, Hughes, Patterson, those guys have been in Vancouver. You know, they've, they've kind of seen some players come and go, you know, whether it's Miller's experience in, in New York, playing with Lundkvist, or, you know, in Tampa. of Bay playing with Stamcoast and now in Vancouver. Like there's this guy has, he's been around a long time. He's also seen a lot of different leaders and he's seen good ones. He's seen guys that maybe didn't live up to the task. So like that comes with the experience.

And that's a big part of what you can lean on when you are talking to guys. Like, hey, I played with so and so. He was a really good player. He did this. You know, and guys will listen to that because, you know, there's a certain kind of, you know, there's a certain respect that you have for the player that he's talking about. And that player may have had a legacy for being this type of leader or that type of leader. So I think that stuff goes a long way when you can lean on your experience.

And then whenever he shoots 7% for the first two months next season and this whole thing like detonates, like we can just burn this. And I'm going to be right back on the contract too, man. 31 years old, six years left. I'll be like, no, that they got high expectations now, whether, you know, this is not going to be next year. Well, maybe the Canucks are going to make the playoffs. Maybe they won't. It's like that fan base is now going to expect the team that's there every single year. And, you know, you take a look at the four teams that are that are still left.

Florida's there every year now. Rangers are seemingly there every year. Dallas, like sustainably good every year. And then the Edmonton Oilers who are, you know, in quote unquote cup or bust mode, having to go up against a very complete Dallas Stars team. that have had the toughest road to get here, having to go through Vegas, having to go through Colorado,

and now they got a different, different dynamic against the Oilers. I wouldn't ask about Dallas specifically, too, because you go back and you look at a lot of the stats from that Ave series, you know, obviously they're here. They deserve to be here.

The defense plate, they were great defensively. It was an unreal series for Hayskin and Kristianev and whatever. I was shocked to see how little production at five on five they got from their big boys in that series against Colorado. So a guy like Jason Robertson, he had two secondary assists there. Like, Pavelski's not doing a ton.

It was a step back at five on five for Wyatt Johnson. They weren't, you know, the production wasn't quite there. So I'm like torn on how to take that going into the series against Edmonton. Because you're like, on one hand, they knocked off the abs despite not having their best guys at their absolute best, which is huge, but also like they're going to need those guys to produce too when you're going up against McDavid and Drysidal and Hyman and whoever else. I couldn't agree more. And you know, you have to play to your strength.

And if you were to pull up the Dallas Stars roster and look at the lines, you would see four complete lines. And I would say three of those can score on, on any given, you know, on any given shift. But they have to be able to do it. And, you know, as far as that top four defense goes, super, super mobile. and some good size, some good range. Not going to, you know, not going to run you out of the building, but going to defend with their feet and be very difficult to beat that way. And then some experience with Souter on the back end, you know,

so I think with Dallas, you know, I called two, two stars games this year when I was when I was doing Habs games. One was in January. One was in February. The one in February, I believe, that was, so that was before they got Chris Tannave. And, you know, being down there at morning skate, you know, talking to some of the people, the sentiment that I got is, man, our offense is really carrying the team. Like, we are gifted offensively. Offense seems to come easy for us, but defensively,

not where the team had been in the past and not where the expectations were internally for the group. They had to improve that way. Now, if you watched or if you looked at Dallas, you go on NHL.com at any point in this season, I think, or I, what I saw, you go to that like past 10 games, it was like any, any given day, it was like seven, two and one, you know, eight one and one, you know, six, three and one, maybe at the worst, like very quietly went about their business. But if, if you just looked at that, you would have thought that they're, you know, they're dialed in all season long. And when they brought in Chris Tanev, it goes without saying that that really bolstered things defensively for them. But I

think that's what can make them dangerous is the fact that for a lot of the regular season, the offense was really driving and really pumping for them. And they almost did it with, you know, a subpar Ottinger and a little bit of a makeshift back in. And now that they've added Tanev and he's playing great with Essel and Dell and Jake Ottinger has found his game, I think like the offense can get there. But the defense has come around. So they've, you know, they've kind of made adjustments for again. on the fly as the season has gone on.

Who gets McDavid for you? Is it Tanev-Lendell? I mean, I know they're throwing Hayskinnan out there with, you know, with Suter and Harley and whoever else. Like, what is the mix there for them with that top four? I think on home ice, it's going to be Lendell and Tanev. I don't think you're going to be afraid, though. Like, I don't think you're going to be afraid if Hayskinin and Suter or Hayskin and Harley

are on the ice against McDavid. Like, I don't think it's going to be that significant. of a drop off, you know, compared to the last series where, you know, it felt like, you know, it felt like Chocott really wanted to get Susie Myers out there against McDavid. And then at times, we would get the Zadouroff out there against McDavid and Cole. But if, you know, if Hughes and Hironic were out there, all of a sudden there was a little more room for McDavid. And that's when he would be able to wind it up.

I think with with the top four in Dallas, it's going to be a different looking top four than what McDavid went up against against Vancouver, just because the Vancouver guys were so much bigger. But I think these guys are mobile. And Tanev, he's not going to blow you away physically, but man, he's one of the smartest players on the ice at any given time. And that's with the puck and without the puck, especially without the puck.

So it's going to be a different look, but I still think it's going to be, you know, Tanev and Lendell when you can, but you're not going to sweat if Hays, in Harley or Hayskinnan and Souter are on the ice against them. What's your pick for the series? I kind of am leaning Dallas. I don't know how you guys feel, but I just, with Edmonton,

it feels like McDavid and Drysiddle at times have to overcome a lot. And I don't know if you can overcome it against the Stars team. Maybe you can because we don't know the status of Rope Hints and, you know, he's hurt. Like that's a big loss for them. And like you talked about, Sean, like there's, The offense didn't exactly come as easy as it has in the past to them. But, yeah, I just think the Oilers, they ask those two to overcome a lot,

and there's a lot to overcome against the stars. And then if Hintz is healthy, too, because he hasn't played since game three, or whatever it was, of the Connect series, so we'll see. Think of it. It's so crucial because then you end up with potentially either Duchenne or Ducain. Johnston going against the bottom six, which is problem territory for Vancouver, right? If you have, you know, the Ryan McLeod line or whatever out there against, out there against one of those guys, that's where Dallas's depth really comes into play. And that's the bummer of it for Dallas,

if you're, if, you know, I'll see what happens with hints, is that the depth only really works if he's there, because then that drives everything else down and you get, you get some, some strong. matchups that feel you. Even if you look at the way things are constructed now, Logan Stankovin has been a godsend for this team because now you don't have Ropei hints, but you still have a legitimate top six guy who's playing, like he's playing with Johnston and Robertson on the first line. And now you can still have Ben Sagan and Dadenoff or you can even throw Mason Marchmont down there with Sagan and Ben and put Dadenoff up. Like there's so many different options of what you can do, but you wouldn't be able to do that unless you had this Logan Stankovin come up

and show that he's capable. And I mean, kudos to Dallas, like with the way they draft. Like, that's the, that seems to be the gold standard for drafting and developing right now in the NHL. No doubt. Yeah, for it now that Rod Brandemore signed, Dallas stars, amateur scouts are the new let's go out there and snite them away and double their salary. Yeah, no kidding. I mean, listen, amateur scouts, like the good ones, they have a track record for bringing in players that can help teams sooner rather than later. I wonder, like, how many scouts have worked for teams for a long time

and haven't drafted a single guy who's panned out? Or they drafted one guy 25 years ago, and it's like, that's either. I drafted this guy, and it's like, I was the Hedderick-Zetterberg scout. And it's like, yeah, wasn't that like 1998? Yeah. Yeah. And you guys, the Red Wings, they were the only team. I mean, credit them for being smart enough to do that, I guess.

But like, nobody else had European scouts back then. Like, they still took five other guys first, you know. Yeah, right. Exactly. And you're also not a genius if you're the only dude is in the building to look at Henrik Zetterberg in 2003 or 2001. It'd be like, yeah, that guy's pretty good. I find the, I find the Kutrov one always hilarious.

Like, because Tampa drafted Kutrub. in the second round, right? And it's like, how did everyone pass on him? Tampa passed on him too. They took them Mestikoff in the first round. Yeah, it wasn't, didn't they have another earlier pick? Didn't they pass on them twice? I can't even, either way.

They might have. Yeah. Like, yeah, credit to them. They did end up taking him, but I always find that funny. Here's my selling point. All right, Dallas Star, the Dallas Stars scouting staff, who I know listen to this show, come to Toronto, come work for Brad for Redder Living. We will get you a hoodie, each one of you.

And you can keep it. Might be Frank Carrados game warden hoodie, but it's, uh, we will, we will get you. Here's what we got. Here's what we got. We got a Modo Swedish hoodie. We got a Dynamo Riga hoodie. And we'll have a Belleville Senator's hoodie. And that's what we'll do.

You're not getting a better offer than that for man. Rod Brindamore's kicking himself right now, no one he could have had that. Yeah. I'm swiping that mode of hoodie. That one's for me. Yeah, yeah, the motto one sweet. Frankie, thanks, buddy. All right, boys.

See ya. All right, we're back at segment three. Sean, we had the kind of rare mid-playoff. I'm not going to say it's a blockbuster trade because it's not, you know, 2014. But Ryan McDonough, a Tim of Bay Lightning once again. Nashville sends him back there for a bunch of draft picks last night. where are we on that?

I was, I don't know why, in hindsight, they shouldn't surprise me because we knew that Tampa's looking for a defenseman and we knew that they loved Ryan McDonan and didn't want to

trade him in the first place. That was just, uh, but they traded him in the first place because they had no cap space. And now, now they do. Somehow.

Well, they don't. Maybe. They don't have any cap space. They're planning on it. I guess they, they feel like they have enough cap space. And,

uh, yeah, it's, I guess in that sense, decent, bit of business for them because they got a lot more for him than they gave up just a fourth round pick going back

but at the same time they won Stanley Cups with him and not without him and I so and this is look this is the reality of the modern day NHL of a cap era you see a trade like this and instead of going oh

who is he going to play with how does he fit in all of this you immediately go to what does this tell us about both teams and the two questions that jumped to Everyone's mind is what does this do for Stephen Stamcoast as far as him coming back to Tampa, them having enough room? They say they do. They don't right now.

They've got $5 million in cap space with other guys to sign. They may have enough space for the amount of money that they want to pay him. Perhaps. Yeah, exactly. In their mind, but there is another party that's involved with this negotiation and it's Steven Stamco's. And then the other piece of it is what is Nashville freeing up money to do? and it may just simply be that they're freeing up money in the sense of they didn't want to pay $5 million a year to an aging defenseman.

And given where they're at, they just want more flexibility. But that's no fun. So we all go, oh, this is for Mitch Marner or this is for, you know, whatever, whatever other superstar Barry Trots is going to go out and get. Because that is like the logical part of your brain is like, okay, well, like I said, a gigantic buyout that they're paying Matt Duchenne next year. that there is money that's earmarked for stuff other than players on the roster, but you also, GM Barry Trots, like he hasn't been on the job all that long? Yeah, I said rookie GM, but not quite. Sophomore GM?

I don't even know if he's hit the one year mark. Has he graduated school this year? I don't know. I don't know what he is yet. But we know what he wants. We know the kind of stuff that he likes. we know what he places a value on, places value on as an executive that,

you know, maybe it doesn't, doesn't totally line up with, uh, with the way it coached all those years. It, you know, necessarily,

but I mean, you look at a team. He likes offense. Likes offense. He has a playoff team that, maybe overachieved expectations, uh, external expectations,

at least. Mm-hmm. And they've got a star goalie active and a potential future star goalie prospect, and we all assume they're going to move one of those guys. So they've got the ammo to make the trade. And now they've got an additional fourth round pick. Watching them in that series against Vancouver, I thought it was a great coaching job by

Andrew Burnett, but it was also a job being done by a guy that seemed like he knew that he didn't have the horses necessary to, you know what I mean? I mean, he was more than happy to, he was more than happy to go. He almost pulled it up, pulled it off, right? But he was more than happy to go on the muck. That's not, but that's not something you want. He lost in the first round to a team that was down to their third string goal that none of us had ever heard of at the time. Like, remember when that, when that news came at Thatcher Demko hurt, uh-oh.

Well, Vancouver's in future. Well, they do have Casey DeSmith. He's, oh, he's hurt too. It's over. It's, you know, we all just kind of almost looked at it and said this is the first round by and Nashville still couldn't score. So, yeah, it's, you know, again, it's, this is the fun slash idiocy of this is that we look at this and immediately go, okay, somebody else is getting that money. Who's it going to be? And, and again, who's now what happens in Tampa.

But, you know, Tampa is potentially, I think you're seeing a lot of teams more and more follow that Vegas model of being aggressive during the season and ruthless in the off season. And, you know, if ruthless in Tampa means going to the mattress with Stephen Stamco's, if it means letting him walk, setting for him to walk, or if it means somebody else, somebody else who thinks they're locked in there, finds out that they're not because this is how they clear the space. But right now, I mean, five million bucks in cap space. And again, it's five million cap space, but it's not because it's not like if you, Stephen Stamco's takes five million tomorrow that your roster set. you've still got other guys.

It's going to be interesting. Nice of them to do this trade and get it into the dead zone. Because we know the NHL hates when any. That's the dumbest thing this time of year. Like, oh, we wouldn't want to overshadow. It's the playoffs, man. Don't worry. Settle down Columbus Blue Jackets.

You can make your trade. And I don't think we're going to. Hockey Night Canada is not pulling away from game seven of the Stanley Cup final to announce. I mean, if it was the Leafs, yes. I mean, if that's, if the Leafs hired a new assistant coach, then of course, we will.

I mean, we'll have an emergency, emergency pod. Justin Trillo will break in and talk about Mike Van Ruin extension. God, did that happen? Scout hires, yeah,

let's go. Does Steven Sam, I got to, let me, let me just throw this at you, only because I looked it up during the break. We were talking about Mark Messier and played the Rangers and, do you know the only

NHL player to ever have played for all four of the final four teams? Edmonton, New York, Dallas, Florida. In fact, he went Florida, New York, Edmonton, and then took him a little while to get the Dallas. They were not the only four teams he played for. I don't.

Good one to throw up. I could sit here for three minutes and maybe pull it out of myself. We're doing an hour and a half of this. People are looking at their... Like, why is there still 90 minutes left in this? It's just me saying... It's just you going, Oli Okina and me going, nope.

And then 45 seconds of silence. I was like, Oliokan didn't play, and he didn't play it for the Oilers. It's Radic Gavorek. Oh. That was a good name from the past. We love a good Ratic. I honestly think I might have gotten there.

Jeff said, Jeff said Mike Sillinger. That's a good guy. That's a deep. Because he played for 2017. Whenever you don't know, you just throw. all Mike Sillinger out there. Mike Sillinger played

for 36 NHL teams. Don't ask how some of them he played for the Kansas City Scouts. He played for

somehow he had got a season with the Philadelphia Quakers and the Seattle St. Louis Eagles were in there.

He's got a Toronto Maroons jersey hanging up there. That's right. But not the hoodie. Not the hoodie. It's Stephen

Samco's I just have one thing to say. Yep. Welcome to the Pittsburgh Penguins. Could happen.

I love how every fan base. Not every fan base. Half the fan bases are out there picturing like, Stamgo's probably going to sign here for the minimum just to win or just because. And it's like, meanwhile, he's fighting tooth and nail with the lightning. Like, if he was willing to take a huge discount, I got news for you about where it's going to be. It's only going to be with one team. But if it's not a huge, if it's not a huge discount, he says, come, if Kyle Duvah says, come play with the old guys for three seasons. We'll, we'll give you, we'll give you, we'll

give you three and 17 or whatever. Well, I mean, how old is Stamco? He's like 33? That's a rebuild in Pittsburgh. That's the youth move. You guys wanted a youth movement? You got it. Here it is.

On one hand, those are city miles on him. He's played five extra seasons in the playoffs and broken both legs three times. But he will qualify as a youth infusion for sure. We do have some breaking news. Jim Hiller. interim tag removed. He is now the official full-time head coach of the LA Kings. Do we care about this at all?

Do you? I mean, I think it's interesting in that, again, it sort of is the the L.A. Kings, when they went out, there was briefly a moment where I think some of us looked at them and went, is this the next team that's going to undergo like some sort of seismic change? Rob Blake was in trouble. They needed a new coach. Pierre-Lubert-Bois, buyout.

was a hot rumor for a while and now we know Blake's back, now we know the coach is back, now we know, or at least Rob Blake has said, no buyouts or anything like that. So where does the change come from or is there change?

Do they, and cover your ears, run it back after years of not being able to beat the Edmonton Oilers? I don't know. It makes them an interesting team in a way this makes them,

I would almost say a more interesting team to me because you've got to think the change has to come from somewhere and the coach is always the easiest thing to change especially when it's an interim situation I don't know their cap situation is sneaky horrendous which is

I don't know if and then is that Rob Blake just kind of accepting it and steering into the skid and just saying like yeah this is this is the way it goes the biggest the biggest are yeah exactly the biggest argument to bring back nil or nil my god hiller wrong jim is that he made it to the playoffs like that's what everybody says like that's like what his what rob blake told him to do when he when he fired todd mcclellan it's like yeah that happened is that the and look he did

turn it around like that was the the kings had a really congratulations on not getting passed up by the blues or the or the wild or whatever like like for god he did he did he's not he was The Kings were, like, there was a time in like December where they were one of the best teams in the league. And you were kind of looking at it going, this is it. They've taken the step. They've broken through. And then two months later, they're firing the coach. And yeah, you got into the playoffs, even got in, you know, as a three seed and played the same team that's beaten you the last two years.

And it went exactly the way that everybody thought it was going to go. At some point. And, you know, you've got a, you've got young players. But, you know, they're kind of at the point where, like, you know, Quinn Bifil's got another level he could get to. There's other guys like that. But this is, this is no longer like that team where you just say, oh, the future's bright because we've got all these guys coming in. Like, the guys who are going to be there are kind of there. They're sort of getting there.

I don't know. I don't know what the future holds other than we've got probably another year before Pierre Lickdebaugh quits on this team too and demands a trade. And then I guess you. I mean, isn't that. it's reductive to say that the whole deal hinges on him, but like, sort of does. If you're Jim Hiller, maybe that's,

isn't that like what you're going into your job interview with Rob Blake and saying, like, okay, I have a plan for this guy. Fix this guy. And here's what it is. And it's Rob Blake buying, buying whatever Hiller selling there because.

I tell you, man, I've written a million times about the shiny new toy, which is when a team acquires a guy. a star or, you know, a quasi-star level guy and immediately gives him way too much money. And, you know, the thing is, typically the way that works is you make the trade, you win the trade, and everyone goes, wow, good for you. You're such a great GM. And then you go, well, I got to keep the guy and I got to throw a lot of money at him.

Dude, they didn't even win that trade. No, that's not quite giving up, by giving up, like what Gabe Valardi did for, for Winnipeg alone is is more valuable than Dubois. And again, you know, Blake has said that he's not going to buy him out. They were coming up. It was a weird situation because of because he had a no movement clause that locked in on his birthday, which is soon. I think I don't have it in front of me, but like it, but it was like. And it was also, it was the under 25 thing where it was a cheaper buyout.

It was one third and two things. So if people are saying like, why don't you give him another year and then you can buy them out next year, that's why there was the urgency this year. Because it would have been cheap. And now it's not, now it's not going to, yeah, relatively cheap. We'll say cheap whenever you're grading it against what he brought to the table last year for them, which was nothing. So we'll see. Good luck. How about this?

Good luck to all involved. I guess that's what we'll say about the old Los Angeles Kings. we're going to finish up with an Oguack update. Who is left? What do we make of them? Is there a favorite among the group? I don't have the list of ahead of me. But we've lost so many of them along the way with Porese and Brent Burns.

Yeah, we lost a couple more good ones. JBR being in the last group. And yeah, Perise being the big one that kind of stands out because he was a guy that we knew. going in with close to certainty that this was it for him. This was, he had said this, this was going to be that. So the bad news is, yeah, we have lost almost everybody. Almost everybody. Off of the original list.

Which typically happens. We have a few. Chris Kreider still out there. I've like, I've truly blocked the fact that he is eligible for this from my brain. I know he talked about this. He is just barely there. A sneaky one, Sam Gagne, still kicking around with the Oilers. A classic guy that you could, he's one of those guys to me.

If you said to me, how old is Sam Gagne? You told me any number from 28 to about 44. I would be like, yeah, that sounds about right. He's on his ninth stint with the Edmonton Oilers. He's a good one. But the bad news is we've lost the vast majority of the ones. list. Here's the good news. We've got, we've still got the Dallas stars in. And the Dallas stars are the most hogwax, old guy without a cup team I've ever seen. Joe Pavelski

is on that team. Jamie Ben has been around forever and has never won. He, Ryan Suter, another classic one. Matthew Shane is on that team now. Yuck. He hasn't. That's another one. No, thank you. And it's plus Chris Tanna They've got Craig Smith on that team Again, he dad and not like they've got a lot of old guys who have won cups And the other one is a sneaky one But I think an excellent one which is Kyle Ock Pozo in

Yes Given everything that he went through By which I mean he played for the Sabres And also the other stuff But I mean if you if your version of a good Oghawak story is like you got to crawl through hell and come out on the other side. There's your guy.

He's done it on a team level. He's done it on a personal level. That guy has checked. All the boxes that you want when you want an old guy to root for. Yeah. So he's definitely there. And I don't, I mean, I don't even know what happens. If Dallas wins the cup, there's like six guys waiting for that first handoff, like little baby birds.

You know, like Ben is the captain. So you don't, like at least he's covered. You would assume Pavelski gets it. But, I mean, then, like, you know, like, like, Miral Heisken and like, you might have to wait. You might get it at the parade because there are so many ancient old guys and nobody on that team has won. And that's because Jim Nill knows the power of the Alquack.

Is Jim Nill won a cup? I'm assuming he has. He must have won one with Detroit. I'm sure he won one with Detroit. There's, there's no way he didn't. Kyle Okpozo crawled through 500 yards of shit-smelling foulness that you could never imagine. came out clean on the other side. That's it.

I think I finally figured it out, by the way. I figured out that this is what made the light go off for me as far as my Rangers biased. Rangers bias is concerned. I can't root for them to win because then Chris Kreider would be the old guy with a cup. It's just not something I can abide by. It hurts, eh, when you find out.

Go to lock to Joe Pabelski. Like, oh, it's rough. But he's up there. Wouldn't it be a heartwarming story? I mean, I'm sure that fans in Montreal would just like just, oh man, when good things happen to good people, isn't that? Isn't that where we're always? I was talking to my buddy, Connor McKenna, who is the morning show host on TSN in Montreal. And he, I don't even know how he got to it.

It was a couple days ago. Chris Crider, Gary Price came up. It's like it's a top of mind for those folks. I can't imagine why. What do you mean? How did it come up? That's like saying, like, I was talking to a Lee fan and he mentioned Carrie Fraser. Like, yeah, no kidding, he did.

Of course he did. There's no, you didn't even have to be talking about hockey. You could be the weather, like, birthday plans. And they'll be like, you know what really grinds my ears. And with that, we have our contractually mandated Kerry Frazier reference for the episode. There is. I mean, to snuck it in. Congratulations to everybody who had a final minute.

Buzzer-beater. Thank you all for listening to this. Thursday. It's Haley. It's Max. It's me. Is Frankie Bell? back next week. Maybe, maybe not. Tune in and see. Take it easy and we'll talk to you next week.