The Athletic Hockey Show - Boston Bruins sign David Pastrnak to 8-year extension and get Tyler Bertuzzi, Jakob Chychrun traded to Ottawa Senators

Episode Date: March 2, 2023

Ian and Sean discuss the lively NHL week leading up to Friday's trade deadline, including Filip Hronek to Vancouver, the Senators' win in the Jakob Chychrun trade, Tyler Bertuzzi to Boston, and react to the David Pastrnak contract extension. Then, Jesse Granger joins for "Granger Things" to discuss Jonathan Quick's trade from Los Angeles, the Connor Bedard effect on betting lines, and how the Coyotes are betting money-maker. To wrap up, a dive into the mailbag and a look back with "This Week in Hockey History".Have a question for Ian and Sean? Email [e-mail] or leave a VM [phone]!Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowTry Peloton risk-free with a 30-Day Home Trial, New Members only. Not available in remote locations. See additional terms at http://onepeloton.ca/home-trial Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome back to your Thursday edition. The Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Mendez, Sean McIndoo with you. And, boy, we're setting you up for the trade deadline. But quite frankly, we're just recapping the trade deadline at this point. It is Thursday morning. We're about roughly 30 hours out from the trade deadline here.

And, you know, Jesse Granger is going to drop by as he always does. We get tons of mail by questions. but I got to tell you, Sean, last week we did the show. And we were like, wow, as soon as we hit published, Patrick Kane is going to be traded and we're going to look stupid. Well, a week later, we're like, oh, yeah, I guess Patrick Kane did kind of get traded. And it's like the 15th most interesting trade that's happened. And I got to ask you, because you're one of the people that over the last few years, many of your columns have been banging the drum of we got to figure out a way to increase trades in the NHL.

We got to get the hype and the excitement that our NBA fan counterparts get on a regular basis. I can't tell you, this last 10 days has kind of felt a little NBA-ish. A little NBA-ish. A little. This is pretty good. It's pretty good. But, I mean, what has happened is essentially we've seen most of the big dames that were on the tradeboard go. You know, if you look at even the most recent update that we have at the athletic.

on our trade board. It's, most of those names are gone. Most of the names we expected to get traded have been dealt. There have been a couple of smaller surprises. I wouldn't say there's, you know, has there been anybody moved where you were like,

oh, wow, I'm surprised that guy got traded. I mean, we're still following the NHO manual here. It's buyers and sellers. It's, you know, it's the bad team sending good players to the contenders.

I don't think that we've seen a single trade that we would call a hockey trade in the last week. I mean, maybe I'm missing a couple in there. But it's all basically the same picks and prospects. We have seen a little bit more in terms of guys with term getting moved. It's not all rentals. And we've certainly seen more picks, I think, you know, more a higher volume. There seems to be a shift in the way the teams are thinking about draft picks.

So, you know, that all adds up to something interesting. I'm curious to see it when we get to the end of Friday, do we look back and say this was actually a more active trade? deadline, you know, few weeks than we normally see, or did we just see it happening earlier? That still kind of remains to be seen. It's been a good deadline. And I said a month ago, I said, this is shaping up to be, you look at the names on the list, Patrick Kane, Jacob Chikrin, guys like that, it's shaping up to be a good deadline.

And it has been a good deadline. I'm just not sure if this is, you know, is this a really good NHL deadline or is this breaking the mold into something more? I'm not there yet as far as being ready to say that this is, you know, we've, something has changed or shifted or whatever other than to say Connor Bedard looms large over all of this. The sellers are being more aggressive than they normally would and the buyers are so far been there to match them. Well, you know, one, okay, one trade I was a little bit surprised about was Philip

Ronick to Vancouver and, and look, Vancouver fans are melting down. But that's one I don't think we necessarily saw on the horizon and it involved the first round pick. So it's, you know, significant. It does. Yes. Okay. Sure. Sure, but you're talking to, you know, NBA-ish, the NBA got an unexpected Kevin Durant trade. If Philip Ronick is our Kevin Durant, then we're not at the NBA level quite yet, is all that I'm saying. I want that clip to just be isolated and played on social media. Sean saying, if Philipronic is our Kevin Durant and people are like, what on earth are these two guys? That's the sort of analysis that we've.

Look, you, I never thought I'd say this, but like, how do we win you over? Like what, like, how do we melt that cynical heart of yours? Because I felt like this has been so much fun the last 10 days. Yeah, it is, it has definitely been fun. Why do you not sound like you're, you're captivated by this? Because this is the same, this is the same thing that we always do in the NHL, right? I mean, we sit there, you know, old, old cranky guys like me sit there and go, you know, goal scoring's too low.

And then goal scoring goes up. And people go, you got to be happy about that, right? And I go, yeah, I am. It's nice to see scoring up. And they go, great. and they hang a big mission accomplished banner that says scoring problem fixed. And I'm sitting there going, well, hold on, we didn't fix the problem. It got a little bit better, but we didn't, you know, we're not up to the levels that we could be,

given all the skill that's out there. There's still work to do. And people go, no, no, it's done. It's fixed. They write their little, you know, end of the dead puck era posts and off they go. And it's kind of the same thing. This has been a very good deadline. It's been fun.

I've enjoyed it. I'm just not going to go to that place and say, hey, you know, any of those, you know, anyone who said that the, you know, the NHL didn't have great trading with, you know, really courageous, gutsy GMs. And look, I'm the person who's been saying that the most. Maybe I'm just protecting my own turf a little bit here. But, you know, I'll just say, when we have some hockey trades at the deadline, or when we have some, some big names that get moved unexpectedly bigger than the Leparoni, then I will be fully on board.

But until then, I still, you know, I'm still, I'm still, I've got one foot in the happy zone and one foot still in, you know, cranky, cranky old Sean. Cynical city. As I look at both the athletic trade board and some other trade boards that are out there right now, TSN and others, do you know the number one list that's, the number one name now that's at the top of the list? It's James Van Rheemesdyke. Yeah.

JV. Well, that's, you know, that, that screams rental, right? That screams, here's a third round. whatever, like whatever. That screams rental. That screams plan C rental. That screams, you know, we didn't, you know, we couldn't get in on Kane or Teresenko or, you know, a few other wingers.

Maybe the Canucks don't end up moving Brock Besser. So we circle back on James Van Riemstack. Who is still, you know, he's a useful player. He'll go somewhere and help that team. But yeah, that's a bit of a rough one. Yeah. And, you know, again, it's because all of the big names, that we had kind of had on the radar have been moved.

I'd be shocked if Eric Carlson gets moved. By now, yeah. Yeah, and part of that is just the complexity of that deal. I think it's more of something they would revisit in the summertime. Yeah, and again, we've kind of been over this in a few different places. I don't buy this idea that you can't do an Eric Carlson trade during the season. I mean, these guys are GMs. This is their job.

They got eight hours a day plus to. sit down and hammer this out. I don't think it's that complicated. Yes, the cap ramifications and everything. But the way the NHL salary cap works, it simplifies all this. Like, you want to retain salary. You don't have to negotiate all four years left on this trade and go back and forth on, you know, moving the point here. It has to be the same. Whether you want it to be or not, it has to be the same. So there's, you know, the levels of complexity here, I don't think are as high as we make them out to be. And if I'm a team that was going to trade for Eric Carlson, look, this is an older guy, he's had a history of injuries, but you always knew, hey, if it all clicks in one season, he can still be great again.

Well, it's all clicked this season, and he is great again. He's beyond great. He may very well win the Norris trophy. If I'm a team that looks at Eric Carlson, I'm not saying, oh, let's just wait till the summer. I don't need them this year. I don't want what could very likely be the best season that Eric Carlson has remaining in his career. I don't want that for the playoff run. Let's deal with it in the summer. I want to make that deal right now. I want to get him on my team for the playoffs where he can be a difference maker because I don't know what he's going to be like next year's playoffs or beyond that. So, you know, I'd like to get it done if I'm a team out there looking for him.

The problem is I don't know that there's any teams left that have cap room that would be a fit that he would waive his no trade clause to go to. I mean, we talked about Ottawa. They made a fantastic deal yesterday. for Jacob Chikrin. So you presumably would say that they're off the list now. Edmonton, they made their move on the blue line. That was always going to be tough, even if they focused on him. They went elsewhere. I just, I don't see that many spots left. Maybe Dallas is one that you would look at. You know, although obviously salary is an issue there. You know, I guess we

never count out Vegas, although I can't even imagine how that could happen. It's really tough to see any landing places left. And again, remembering that this is a player where, you know, hey, maybe Columbus could do it. Columbus has been big game hunting on the blue line. You know, they were in on Chickren. They've got a bunch of assets. Maybe they could be the team that could do it with the cap space they have.

Eric Carlson's not going to wave his no trade clause. Go to Columbus for the next four years. He can't imagine. So I don't think Carlson moves. I think that's that name is is off the board. And it doesn't sound like, you know, J.T. Miller was another one that I was really intrigued by, both for what that trade would look like and also what it would say about the Vancouver Canucks. It doesn't sound like that's happening. Big risk to say that because by the time people listen to this, we might be mulling over a Miller trade that's already happened.

But so far, as we're recording this, you know, the only team that really seemed to light up, up on that dashboard was Pittsburgh for a while and they've they've done their thing now so we can scratch them off. It's and then the other big names have already been moved. So it's, it might be a long day tomorrow. I know. I'm on live blog duty. You're doing, you know, you're doing the show. We might need some filler because it's and or maybe not, you know, maybe we see GMs just in maybe they have to get creative now. Maybe they can't just go by their same old list that everyone's been working from. Maybe we've got to see, you know, who's out there. Certainly, things have shaken free in Detroit after that disaster earlier in the week in Ottawa that

we maybe didn't expect, but I mean, I don't see a ton of meat left on that bone for other teams. At this point, the deadline itself, the weeks leading up to it has been a lot of fun. The deadline day, we need some surprises to save us because this is, otherwise, it's going to be a long one. You know, and you mentioned, look, that you said, look, you think Ottawa made a good trade for Jacob Chirkeran. And I think a lot of people probably there's, you know, it's a good trade when you're on social media, you're looking, and other fans are like, how come our team didn't do that? Because it wasn't the sort of King's Ransom that we were led to believe. Now, it's a good trade for Ottawa. Yeah. It's a terrible trade for the coyotes. And it's, you know,

those don't have to be equal on both sides. Yeah, two things can be true at once. But, but, you know what? Let me defend Bill Armstrong a little bit here because I think a lot of people look at this. And you're like, that guy overplayed his hand. It's a game of poker and they finally had to call it. And he was bluffing. Here, let me defend him a little bit after I had some conversations. And I think what happened was I think Bill Armstrong probably had better deals on the table. But it all involved them taking money back.

And it was ownership that said, no, no, no, no, no. We're not taking money back. So look, he's now playing short-handed here. He can't take. Ottawa, when they moved Nikita Zytev out, whatever it was, a week or 10 days ago, that was kind of a precursor move for them that, okay, now we're not going to staple Nikita Zytsv to a trade because it became very clear that if they wanted to get Jacob Chikrin, they can't add Nikita Zytsv because Arizona is just simply not willing

to do it. So at the end of the day, Ottawa was like, yeah, we'll give you a friend. a couple of seconds, and we'll take the full chicken freight, and we're not going to give you any bad contracts back. And the coyote's ownership is like, that's the best we can do. And I don't know how much you blame the general manager there. Like, I really don't. And that's fine. That's fine. And yeah, I accept the, you know, I take all the points you just made. I'm saying this is a bad deal for the coyotes. I don't care if it's the GM or the owners or whatever it is. Uh, Somebody somewhere along the line screwed this up. And if I'm a coyote's fan, I don't particularly, you know, when I hear the defense of Bill Armstrong, that doesn't make me feel any better. In fact, it makes me feel worse because GMs come and go and, you know, your owners, you're kind of stuck with. So, you know, I got to be honest. You know, Bill Armstrong has said it was very important to us so that we didn't have to take money back. I don't fully get that because they've been taking money for years now. They've been the clearinghouse.

for dead money in order to get to the floor and all this other stuff. So to say that we're willing to take on bad money for, you know, everything up to it, including Patrick Kane a few days ago, but we're not going to do it for a star young player where this could be the biggest trade that we make as far as bringing assets in. You know, I don't fully get it. And look, I do understand that, you know, when you talk about Patrick Kane, the cap hit is different than the actual dollars out. And, you know, that's maybe that all adds up. But, man, this is, this is a bummer for me if I'm a coyote's fan because you had a year and a half and there

was all sorts of buzz around this guy, all sorts of talk about who, you know, who'd pay up to get them. And then at the end of it, it turns out that, as you say, your GM was negotiating with one hand tie behind his back because he couldn't take any money back on a contract that was already dirt cheap. You know, to me, no brainer for. for Ottawa or any other team to say, yeah, okay, you know, if the price is going to be as cheap as it turned out to be. And, you know, we should say it wasn't dirt cheap because I think we've spent so much time the last few weeks watching teams like Boston and Tampa and Toronto and whoever else trade their first round picks. And it feels like those picks are devalued.

And the senator's pick is not in that same range. This senator's pick and it's top five protected, all these other picks are top 10 protected. So the fact that this one payment at top five kind of gives the game away as far as what Bill Armstrong is gunning for here. He's saying that this could be the seventh or eighth pick in the draft. Give me eight, right? If you're Bill Armstrong, you're like, if that's the eighth overall pick. But you get, you know, there's no, it is protected top five. So you're, you're not getting another Connor Badard lottery pick, you know, and Pierradore. And after what his team did to Detroit this week probably feels a lot better about moving that pick, especially knowing that if worse comes

to worse and the team craters and it ends up being, you know, his team falls down the standings, he's still got those lottery odds. So he's not going to be the guy who traded away a top five pick. Six or seven or eight. Honestly, I mean, that's certainly worth far, far more than the 32nd pick for Boston. But it's still not a lot to give up for a guy as good as Jacob Chikrin on a deal that's that cheap that fills a need for the Ottawa senators. I mean, it's an A plus deal for Ottawa, whichever way he slice it. Yeah.

And, you know, we're talking to Boston here. and on Thursday morning, the Boston Bruins signed, or they acquired Tyler Batuzi from Detroit. We talked about, you know, Detroit doesn't have a ton of meat left on that bone. And yeah, look, the Bruins swooped in. And then within minutes of that, the Bruins basically minimize that news

by announcing that they've signed David Posternack to an eight-year contract that will pay him $11.25 million on an annual basis. So eight years, $90 million for, an elite, arguably the best right winger in the game, or certainly in the conversation of the best right winger in the game, his finishing is elite, he's dangerous in every aspect that you can want from a winger, and the Boston Bruins get Posternak signed,

and this is, you know, this is the type of deal I kind of expected for David Posternack, right? Eight years, 90 million. Yeah, I mean, you didn't really know. You never know how much a player is, weighing things like fit and, you know, the organization versus just, just wanting as much money as he can get. If David Pasternak just wanted as much money as he can get, he could have got a lot more than this. Certainly, if he hits free agency, he doesn't get the eight years, the eighth, you know, he has to settle for seven years, but he gets a, he gets probably a much,

he gets a much higher annual value, and it probably adds up to more than the 90 million. And if he had really wanted to hold the Bruins' feet to the fire, I, you know, I made the argument that he could have absolutely said, I want to be the highest paid player in the game. I want to go past Nathan McKinnon's 12.6 because I'm having a great season. I'm right up against free agency. I'm not worried about Connor McDavid's contract because he signed that four years ago. I want to go a little bit past McKinnon and keep raising the bar. Clearly, that wasn't something that was a deal breaker for him.

Because I got to be honest, I look at these numbers, this is a good deal for Boston. And, you know, I'm, every time I say anything like this, people go, oh, yeah, you know, how terrible for David Pasternak. He's got $90 million to, you know, that he's going to be sitting on. Good deal for him too. Obviously, he likes it in Boston. It's a good fit, good organization. It works for everybody. But, you know, if, I'll put it this way, if you're a fan of another team in the Atlantic, you're watching this, you know, this powerhouse Bruins team.

And you're thinking, well, at least maybe, you know, maybe the Pasternak thing will blow up in their face. It didn't. This is a very fair deal for them. Boston Bruins. Boy, yeah, it's, look, he gets, he's legitimately a mega, megastar. Like, I think he's in the conversation. It might be the best, one of the best two or three right wangers in the game. Certainly this year is, yeah.

I mean. Yeah, certainly this year. And, you know, Detroit gets Dylan Larkin signed. So now we start to even think ahead about the UFA market in the summertime, right? Like, that becomes as interesting. Like, this is the window. Not that David Posternak was ever going to, really be on the trademarker to get moved.

But I wonder if we see any other long-term extensions here for these types of guys in the next 24 hours. Because, you know, this is the time when the player might have a little bit more leverage to try and get something done with his team, right? Like, I'm sure the Bruins were probably sweating on some level. I'm saying with Detroit on some level that, you know, Larkin and Pasternak, after you get past the trade deadline, boy, they're ready. They could walk out the door for nine.

Nothing, theoretically, right? Yep. And look, it is something that you have to look at. And you're right, the players have a little bit more leverage. But the teams also, this might be the time where teams have to use the hockey term that I like. They got to shoot or get off the point. It's a case where you call up and say, look, we know we're a little bit far apart. We have a rough idea what you want.

You have a rough idea what we want to do. I know in theory we've got until June 30th to figure this out, but we've got to people call it about trades that we can't turn down if this is going to be something that's that's going to work. Is there, you know, is there, can we get this done over the next 48 hours? Because if we can't, the next call you get for me might be, might be on a trade. Now, that's it. I'm looking at the list of guys who are going to hit free agency in the summer.

Do you know who the leading scorer right now among guys who are going to be unrestricted free agents? Because there's Jester Bratt and, you know, obviously Alex Debringit, Timo Meyer, but the leading score among unrestricted free agents right now. Is it, is it Max Domi? Good for you. Yeah, it is Max Domi. Yeah.

And then the next- 50 points, something like that. He's 49 points and 60 games, which is more than I thought. Pretty good production from him. For giving the team that he's on. And that's, he's obviously a guy that you would look at in that situation. Because I do think he's 28, so he's not, you know, that's not a guy you have to move if you're Chicago.

And, you know, we always say this. Even when you're tanking, you still need some guys. You've got to ice a team. And, you know, Max Domi could be a guy that they decide is a good fit. Or they could certainly move him, especially if the market has dried up and there are still teams that are looking to do something. You look down the list beyond that. The next two guys are Creachian Bergeron? Obviously, they're not only are they not being traded.

They're not going anywhere. It's a different situation. Patrick Kane, we just saw moved. Alex Clorrence, the next guy. Tampa Bay. You know, and then you're down to Michael Bunting. He's not going to move. And it's, it's, the list dries up, let's just say.

You know, I'm not seeing anybody that really jumps out to me that hasn't already been moved as somebody that, that you think is, is potentially either on the move or, or they're going to need a deal real soon other than don't me. All right, Sean, time for us to bring in our pal, Jesse Granger for the segment called Granger things. Brought to you by BetMGM, the exclusive betting partner with us at the athletic. And as we close in on the trade deadline, you know, Sean and I were talking earlier about potential landing spots for Eric Carlson.

And Sean's like, well, don't ever sleep on Vegas because they do crazy things at the deadline. Probably not crazy enough to get Eric Carlson. But so much of the oxygen has been taken up by the Eastern Conference teams, right? All loading up, loading up. And it feels awfully quiet where you are out in the West. Jesse. So let's start. When's the Western Conference trade deadline? The Eastern Conference one is tomorrow. Is it next month or something? What is that kidding? Yeah, what's happening over there? What's happening? Yeah, we're still waiting for it to start. It looks like, I mean,

Edmonton really, when you look at it, is the only team that made a major acquisition, if you can call Thiasat Colma, a major acquisition. And what's even stranger is, I mean, I guess like, you can look at it one, two ways. The East has so many good teams. So there are so many teams that are like, okay, this is our year. Like, we need to load up. But then the West, it's like, it's wide open. I would say, I'm still of the belief that Colorado is kind of playing possum. This team is way better than it's shown. And I think I'm of the belief that when the playoffs get here, the defending Stanley Cup avalanche are absolutely the team to beat in the West. And I don't think there's really a close second. But outside of Colorado, the West is wide open. There's really

nobody that has that like Dallas, Winnipeg, Vegas, Seattle, L.A. Somebody on Twitter and I can't remember who it was, but they, you know, they said we're all kind of waiting on Dallas. But, you know, Dallas, they got such a young team, you know, Jake Audenger's Young and, you know, Robertson and all these guys. They're a young team. So, you know, maybe it's no rush. And I'm sitting there going, yeah, yes, but when will you ever?

in the window of those players have a more winnable Western conference than you've got right now. Like when will this ever open? When will the field ever open up like this? I mean, this is, you know, the metaphor I use a lot is, you know, like a football one. It's kind of like, you know, if you're a Western conference contender, you just took the hand off, you know, you go through the hole and you look up at the field and there's like one guy to beat. And that's it, you know, you don't run out of bounds then and say, I'll save myself for the next play. you got to say, this is an opportunity where everything is lining up. And I feel that way about all of the Western contenders of which there's probably, you know, only three or four maybe. And, you know, it's funny.

You talked about Colorado sort of lying in wait. And I'm with you on that. I do wonder with these Western teams at this little game of chicken, do you think if I'm a GM and I've got a deal maybe saying, Do I want to wait till right up to the deadline and make that trade then as opposed to making it today? If I'm Colorado, do I make a trade now knowing Dallas has got 24 hours to respond? Or am I kind of telling the other GM, you know what, we've got a deal. Let's file it at 2 o'clock tomorrow.

And that way, we won't leave time for Edmonton to respond or anyone else. I just wonder, I'm probably overthinking it. But that's the sort of thing that's that's sort of nonsense I'd get up to if when I'm an NHL GM. It's an interesting concept. I like the idea of, I don't want, like, everyone in the West is kind of asleep. Let's not wake everyone up the day before the deadline. Exactly. Now, the flip side of that is you get, you know, a different version of that was between

Boston and Columbus where they apparently had an agreement in place for Gavikov. And Sweeney kept saying, I need more time, I need more time. And suddenly, oops, I found a better deal somewhere else. So maybe you don't want to do that. But, yeah, it's, it's, Edmonton's made the big deal. I guess L.A., I don't consider them a contender, but maybe I should. they made their deal as well. But we're waiting on Colorado.

We're waiting on Dallas. I consider that we're waiting on Minnesota. I know they've done a couple of small things. They've got all that cap room. And then Vegas. You guys got to do something crazy, man. Come on. A desperate hockey world turns its eyes to Vegas.

Like, come on, man. Do something nuts here. Vegas is interesting because, so they entered with a ton of cap space because Mark Stone went on LTIR. They had like $9 million, $8 million to spend. And they trade for Ivan Barbashev, and he's played two games now. And he's, I mean, he's definitely not the big deal that you think of, like, turning you, like putting you over the top to win a Stanley Cup. But he's been a pretty good fit.

And I think he does a lot of things that they look for. And then they made us another small deal yesterday, getting Terry Bluger from, or Teddy Blugher from Pittsburgh. And he's like a fourth line center shutdown guy. He's got like two goals this year. He's not a big move. The one that everybody in Vegas is kind of wondering about, and there have been some whispers is the Jonathan Quick. And I personally don't understand it at all.

I do not understand. Yes, the Golden Knights have injury problems in that. Logan Thompson's out. Bruce Cassidy said yesterday he's nowhere near coming back on the ice. So they're hoping he's back for the playoffs or possibly sooner. But at the point, right now it doesn't sound all that optimistic for Logan Thompson. Lauren Bresois, who just came back from offseason hip surgery and looked great in his three games, is now out with a lower body injury. They've got so many guys banged up.

They've got Michael Hutchinson as their backup goalie right now with Aden Hill starting. I see why maybe they're thinking this thing, the wheels could fall off this thing if we don't go get a goalie. But Jonathan Quick just got traded from a playoff contender because they needed goalie help. I mean, the Kings have the second worst save percentage as a team in the entire NHL, and they're still in playoff position. So this is, we're talking top five defensive team in the NHL. If you look at every metric, the Kings are one of the five best defensive teams in the entire league. And Jonathan Quick has the worst stats of any goalie in the NHL.

I think maybe Spencer Martin in Vancouver might have worse. But we're talking 93 goalies have touched the ice this year. One is worse than Jonathan Quick. And he's doing it behind a top five defense. This isn't like for me like John, John Gibson, everyone says, well, put him behind a good team and see what you get, right? Like he's getting slaughtered back there. And I agree with that. I don't think Jonathan Quick is that situation.

Jonathan Quick was behind a good team. And they had to get a different goalie in order to, and like they got killed PR-wise by their fans. And they knew that move was going to look bad, but they had to do it because he hasn't been good enough. And they think they've got a good enough team to win in the playoffs. So I don't see what Jonathan Quick does for the Golden Knights, but that would be to me, like if you're looking for a splash, you move out of the Golden Knights, that's the one that's left is someone in goal.

Yeah, but I think people just jump to the conclusion. This guy's a two-time Stanley Cup winner. He would come in and maybe stabilize the goaltending position. But like you said, his save percentage is hovering around 880. A playoff-bound team thought he wasn't good enough for them. And he's a legacy player for them. them. This is a tough decision. You know that that was a tough decision for them to cut ties with Jonathan Quick. And they had to do it. And, you know, obviously when you, when you see people

like Pierre LeBron and others saying, Jonathan Quick is not happy about going to Columbus, okay, where does he end up? And my other question, and maybe Sean, you would be able to handle this. Like, do you think, like, at some point, I would imagine Jonathan Quick is a candidate to have his number retired in L.A. You know, backstop? Absolutely. two standly cups. Do you think that this type of ending kind of just jeopardizes that a little bit or sours it or makes it awkward? It's completely up to him. And, you know, we haven't heard from him yet as far as, you know, how he feels about this trade. We've seen the reporting that he took it hard. Certainly, we have seen situations where teams and players have had bad endings

and haven't had the number retired, haven't had that moment, you know, including some where you look at it even to this day. Why isn't Sergey Federo's number retired in Detroit? And it's, you know, because it ended badly. In this case, I mean, it hasn't ended badly based on the king's perception. I don't think. It's their actions, but not the fact, you know, there's nobody in L.A. that has a bad word to say about Jonathan Quick.

It's just kind of a question of, you know, how does he feel about this? And it might take him a little while to get over it. Generally speaking, we do see these things get to, you know, come back together. but, you know, it's similar to some extent the Mark Andre Fleurie's situation with Vegas, not with the same extent of history. But it's, this is, this is a tough business, man. And we definitely, we saw that on this week from L.A. Because like Jesse says, Jonathan Quigg is not a good goaltender anymore, period.

End of story. So it makes perfect sense as a hockey move. But man, it's an awfully tough one, especially just a few, you know, a few days, few weeks after the old Dustin Brown ceremony and statue and, you know, the love for those teams and rightly so, this is a tough one to swallow.

So, let's chat a little bit here about, of all things, Connor Bedard, because you wouldn't think that as we were at the height of the trade deadline that Connor Bedard, who's yet to be drafted, would have an impact on things, but,

Jesse, you're seeing a little bit of the Bedard influence already. Yeah, I'm looking at the lines on the games, last couple weeks. And I'm thinking, man, this Connor Bernard kid is so good. He's already affecting the sports books a year before he's even drafted because some of these lines for these three worst teams in the league, Chicago, Columbus, and Arizona are getting out of hand. I like the other night, it was, I mean, it's been a couple weeks or a week and a half or so. Chicago played Toronto, the game they lost five to two to the Leafs. The Blackhawks were plus four 25 to win that game.

We're talking almost four and a half to one odds on a hockey game. And for those that don't bet on hockey, that is an absolutely insane number. Like if you get anything over plus 200, like, that's when it starts to be, oh, wow, this is a pretty big underdog. You get over 300. Wow. There have been quite a few plus 300s, and that's what caught my attention. Columbus was plus 302 against Edmonton.

Chicago was plus 315 against Calgary. They won that game, by the way. they were plus 351 against Dallas and one. They were plus 425 against Toronto. So some of these bottom teams are winning games and they're plus money, like an insane amount of money. It's not the worst idea to put some money on these terrible teams that are tanking for Bidad just because of how much value you get. And that led me to, I'm looking at Arizona. And so you can look at the NHL standings.

And then you can also look at most profitable teams and least profitable teams. And the way they determine that is if you blindly throw $100 on this team every game, what would your net profit or deficit be? And I'm blown away by these numbers. So the coyotes at home at Mullet Arena, the mighty Mullet Arena, which I think now is maybe the greatest home ice in all of hockey, is the coyotes are 14 and 12. Because, again, when you're betting, overtime shootout losses count the same as regulation losses.

So we're just going losses or losses. So they're 14 and 12 at home. So they've only won two more games than they've lost. But because of these insane lines that I was talking about, if you were to have blindly bet $100 on every coyote's home game on Arizona, you'd be up $1,129 at the moment, which is just for like perspective, if you were to blindly put $100 on the Bruins, every game all year, and they've lost like three games the whole season, you'd only be up $654. So you'd be up almost double that.

1129. If you were to have bet the coyotes blindly in every home game this season, the mighty, mighty mullet arena is not to be messed with. By the way, if you were to do the same thing on the road for the coyotes, you'd be down $1,030. So they're plus 99 this year. If you were, so you're actually up money if you bet on every coyote's game. But at home.

We used to talk about the Vegas flu. This is, we got the mullet flu happening now. Right. It's insane. Yes. It's like, and it seems like if you look every night, it seems like one of these teams, Arizona, Chicago, or Columbus are beating someone that they shouldn't. I can imagine the GMs that are constructing these tanks are pulling their hairs out.

Like what is going on here? Which of these teams, how many of them do you think have got like the old majorly cardboard cut out of the GM? And they're just like tearing a piece of the. suit off like every time they win just to show them. Yeah. That's it. There's a little pop culture reference for all the 40s and overs that make up the audience.

The rest of you can, you know, ask your grandparents what I'm talking about. Okay. All right. Good for you. I feel like that. Did that movie come out like in 1989? Like I feel like it's like a potentially like a late 80s movie. Maybe.

Like not even a 90s movie. Jesse saw it. It was like watching Citizen Kane to him, but he was. It did come out in 89. That was a good call, Ian. A year before. I was born, but I have seen that movie. Okay, that's enough out of you, Jesse.

Thank you so much. Yeah, thanks. Yeah. So there you go. Jesse Granger has discovered how to make the Arizona coyotes profitable. Gary Bedman will be calling immediately. I've solved the answer. Bet on them at Mullet Arena.

They're a wagon. There you go. We love it. All right, Jesse, man, thanks for dropping by. We look forward to your coverage. Obviously, Vegas, I'm sure we'll do something ahead of the trade. That's on. Like you said, might be in goal.

So we look forward to that. Thanks for this. and we'll hit you up again next Thursday. Yep, thanks for having me, guys. Thank you. All right, always fun stuff with Jesse Granger. Let's get to the mailbag here. Actually, wait, quick question for you.

Okay, I need you to play the judge on this. Linus Olmark scored a goal for Boston a few days ago. And I saw some people saying they were really frustrated, Sean, because they got Olmark in their fantasy pool, but his goal doesn't count. So the question I ask you, I'm going to give you the role of fantasy hockey, judge, whatever, arbitrator. Should goalie goals, and I guess by extension assists, count in hockey pools? Absolutely.

100%. Penalty minutes should count too. They absolutely should count. Maybe they should even count extra. But yes, they should count. Now, that having been said, if you're in a hockey pool and you're using like some website or whatever, if your commissioner just like, can't do it, don't be that guy who turns it into a whole thing. Just, okay, fine, cool.

That one goal isn't going to make that much of a difference. But yes, theoretically, you know, I'll stand up for the fantasy sports commissioners out there. They got enough on their plate to deal with without you turning this into a federal case. But theoretically, yes, absolutely, that should count. Yeah, I think so too. And again, it happens so rarely that why not celebrate it? It's a goal. I mean, it counts.

It's there. You look in the scoring column. He's right there. And it was, you know, it's such a super cool moment. But also, I do have to say, though, if you've got Lenazal Mark on your fantasy team, you're doing fine. You're okay.

You're just going to have to, you know, deal with, you know, his 60 win season and the Vezina he's going to win. Maybe you won't get that extra goals. Sniffing out for the, the random goal. All right. So there you go.

There you have it. The judge has spoken, goal of goals, and assist should count in hockey pools. Let us go to the mailbag here. And again, you can hit us up at, The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com.

We've got lots of emails that could do. We also have a voicemail at 845-4-4-5-8449. Let's hear from Rob, who wants to talk a little bit about Pierre Turjan, who we brought up, I think it was last week's podcast. Here's Rob's question about Pierre Turgeon. Hey, Ian and Sean, enjoying the Pierre-Turgeon conversation on the last pod. You've probably discussed this, but why exactly isn't Pierre in the Hockey Hall of Fame? I know the Hall is very protective of their info.

but from your point of view, what's the reason for Pierre not making it in? He probably falls into that Hall of Very Good category, but there are lots of those guys in the real hall already anyways. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen, Rob Brown. And for Sean, not that, Rob Brown. All right. So listen, and I think it was either last week or the week before you said Pierre Turjan has the distinction of most career points without being in the Hall of Fame.

I mean, is there a case for Pierre Turgeon to be in there? There's certainly a case, and that is where the case really starts. I think that's the strongest point is you look at his career points. He is the all-time, there is nobody in the history of the NHL who has as many points or more as Pierre Turgeon, who is not already in the Hall of Fame. So they've drawn a line right at him. And even if you were to do it by adjusted points, I believe that is still the case. So even if you're saying, well, you know, he played in the 80s and early. 90s a little bit.

He is the all-time leader, obviously not counting guys who are not eligible yet, like Crosby and Ovechkin. So that's a good, you know, that's not a bad place to build your case from. And the flip side is somebody's got to be that guy, right? I mean, if we put in the leading score who's not in the Hall of Fame every year, then eventually everybody gets in. So you do have to drawl with someone. in. Yeah, well, I mean, well, let's not let's not get crazy here. Now, I will say the, you know,

the extra thing you could add on to the peer turgeon argument is, okay, you say, all right, maybe he's where you draw the line. The next guy on the list, again, not counting guys that are that are still active or not eligible. The next guy on the list is Jeremy Roanick. Jeremy Roanick's over 100 points back of peer Turgeon. So it's not like, you know, it's a pretty big gap. And if you just look at that points list, and you show that to somebody who doesn't follow hockey and you say, you know, what stands out to you here? They would point to Pierre Turgeon and say it's weird that that guy is not in the Hall of Fame, that there's 40 names on that list and 39 of them are Hall of Famers. Now, as far as how come he doesn't get in, I think there are some pretty solid arguments against it. Starting with the fact that he was a guy that, you know, 1,300 points is fantastic, even given the errors he played in because he played. He played. a lot of his career in the dead puck era too. He was really a one-note player, though, as far as the offense. And that's a pretty good note to be able to hit.

But he wasn't a good defensive player, certainly wasn't physical, wasn't a guy who had a reputation as a leader. I mean, he was captain in Montreal, but, you know, not a guy that was, you know, any of the other stuff that we like to grab and use to, you know, to boost a guy up is is not really there with him. The other thing with Turjan that really works against him is he played for 19 years. He had that one great 92-93 season where he had out of 130 points. He finished fifth in the heart voting that year.

That's the only season of his entire career where he got any heart votes or any All-Star votes. Other than that, he was just, you know, a guy. And look, he was a center. So you're talking, he broke in at the height of Wayne Gretzky, Merrill Lemieux, you know, Steve Eiserman's out there as he continues to play. You got Joe Sackick and Forsberg and these guys. It's a real tough position to, you know, to crack the top of that list. But Pierre Turgeon was a guy where other than maybe one year was never in the conversation of this guy is one of, this guy is the best center in the game.

This guy's one of the very best centers. He just wasn't there. there are guys in the Hall of Fame that have similar pedigrees where you just say look they played for a long time they were good and consistent for a long time maybe never the best but it was still adds up to enough to get him in the Hall of Fame Dino Cicorelli is one of those guys Dave Anderchuk would be one of those guys. Patrick Marlowe presumably will be one in a few years. So there is the case. It just, to me, it's not strong enough. And obviously to the committee, it's not strong enough.

And the last thing I would say is this shouldn't be a factor, but I think it is. Played for 19 years, played for six different teams, never more than five years on any team. And what that means is there isn't like one fan base that's pounding the table. for this guy. There isn't one media base. There isn't one franchise that when they go into that room, somebody is going to say, hey, everybody in my organization says, we need to talk about this guy. And that tends to help. The guys who are borderline cases, you know, the Daniel Alphertons, the Bernie Ferdurcoes, guys like that that are really closely associated with one team, for whatever reason, they seem to get in when guys like Pierre Turgeon that just moved around a lot,

maybe don't. So it wouldn't completely blow me away if he got in one year, but I feel like he's been eligible long enough that it's pretty clear that the committee is not impressed. We don't know how close he's coming, unfortunately, because there's no visibility on this. But I certainly don't think he's a no-brainer. I think the case against him is reasonably strong and obviously the committee seems to agree. Okay. Moving along, we've got some other emails to get to. Charles and Thunder Bay writes in via email and the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. Charles and Thunder Bay. Is there any general manager doing a worse job than Ron?

The plan is in my head, Hextall, with roughly $20 million in contracts coming off the books this summer. Is there any way, Hextall is still employed to waste that money. That comes in from Charles and Thunder Bay. And I got to tell you, Charles and Thunder Bay. And anybody who's a Penguins fan, or even if you're not a Penguins fan, make sure you go to the athletic, read what Josh. has written this week, read what Rob Rossi has written.

Gentile, too, with the trade grades for the... This is wild. This is, they have reached kind of where Vancouver fans were out with Jim Benning in that regime. That's where they're at with Ron Hextall. People are like, this is ridiculous. Get them out of there. But here's my question to you.

And I look, Charles and Thunder Bay is probably, I'm assuming a Penguins fan. When you've won three Stanley Cups in the salary cap era, can you really be fuming and frothing at the mouth like this and people are like, you're wasting this, the Crosby Malkin window. Well, hold. Let me, yeah. Let me, let me think. I'm going to do the math here because so we've got the, you know,

my old buddy Bill Simmons famously had the five year grace period where if your team wins a championship, you can't be really mad about anything for five years. They're past that in Pittsburgh now, right? 2017 was their last Stanley Cup. So they do get to be mad against. This is year six. They probably got a few years. A few years of pent up frustration.

And yeah, it's, I will tell you, just as a sports fan, I love a good sports columnist Carbop where they just go, you know, usually the GM just absolutely take them to pieces. And it's happening to Ron Hextel this week. And that, you know, that Granlin trade was just, you know, as Gentilly put in the trade grades. It doesn't solve any of the problems. It feels like GMs always tell us, I'm not going to make a trade for the sake of making a trade, but this feels like a GM going. I don't think my team's good enough. I don't want to bring in reinforcements, but everyone's going to complain and yell at me.

And my coach wants me to bring someone in. Okay, here you go. Here's a guy. But all it's doing is sticking them with more salary cap commitments. Is there anyway, Ron Hexel is the GM in the summer? Sure. Of course there is. there's half the job of being a GM is managing building the roster, all that stuff,

and half of it is managing up to the ownership or whoever's making that decision and making them think you're doing a good job. And I don't know whether Ron Hexel is doing a good job or not, but we've certainly seen some GMs who, based on performance, you would think would not be candidates to continue on. And then for some reason they do. So I know that's certainly not the answer. It sounds like our listener was looking for.

But, you know, I think there is at least a chance that we do see him stick around. And also, what's Brian Burke up to these days? Remember that whole thing when he came in? He's there too, right? Like, I mean, it's, but yet you don't really hear from him very often. You thought he'd be more visible. I don't know. It certainly doesn't feel like things are working the way they were supposed to be working in Pittsburgh one way or another.

but you would imagine change is coming, but I wouldn't bank on it necessarily. I just, you know what? I don't know. Maybe it's, again, maybe it's because they've won three Stanley Cups in, you know, in the salary cap era.

The anger and the vitriol coming out of that market feels like it's on par with how Vancouver fans are feeling. I'm like, I don't think you have the right to be as angry as them right now, right? But that's just me. But then again, you do you. I mean,

they quit this way. Do whatever they want. There's a whole. a lot of fan bases out there that would trade places with you, Pittsburgh. Yes. That's what I'm saying. So I understand it's going to be tough for a little bit until you miss the playoffs and win the lottery and get Connor Bedard.

You know, that, that'll be tough and we'll have to act surprised, especially since they changed the rules and it shouldn't be possible. But Gary Batman will just be like, oh, you know, there was a, we sent a memo out this morning that changed the rules on everyone. So Pittsburgh's got the number one pick again. You'll be fine. Okay. Let me read a couple more emails here.

George in Maryland writes in. Love the idea of the magic draft picks Sean floated out on the pod a couple of weeks ago. I've seen what the impact compensatory picks have in baseball. So I actually think this idea could work. But I do have a tweak I would suggest. I want to combine Sean's extra magic draft picks idea with my favorite piece of NHL history, the wheel. Get out the old draft wheel and with an odd number of spaces. and then you fill in the spots with a mix of things that general managers want.

Maybe it's an extra draft pick, bonus cap space, et cetera, et cetera. And then each time a general manager makes a trade for a player on his roster, not including prospects or draft picks, they're allowed to spin the wheel one time, see where it lands, and they end up with either the extra draft pick, cap space, whatever. Heck, make it a TV event. And as always, screw it up by misreading which team lands on. to leave everybody confused and angry.

That's from George and Maryland with an old, I guess, an homage to the 1970. Spin the wheel and Buffalo ends up with Gilbert Perot. Yes, that was back when Buffalo, Vancouver had to figure out which expansion team was going to get the number one pick. And they, rather than flip a coin, they decided to spin a big novelty wheel

and then the league president misreaded and awarded Jill Bear Perot to the Canucks until the Sabres figured it out and complained. I love this idea. I'm all in. Spin the wheel, make the deal. deal. Let's do it. You even have a catch trade. This would be the other way. Make the deal spin the wheel. Make the deal spin the wheel. Make the deal spin the wheel. Yeah, that's, that's it. You know, we'd have to set a bar. It'd have to be like a certain, you know, level of trade. But yeah, we get it all in there and you get up there. You spin the wheel. I love it. Are we thinking like Price's right wheel? Is that in my mind, that's what I'm picturing. I'm thinking like, you know, the kind of novelty raffle wheel, but Price's right wheel would be okay too. Yeah, that'd be. Yeah. That'd be. That'd be. That'd be.

pretty cool. And you know, you can have like different spaces, have different sizes. Like, you know, when you take your kids to the arcade and, you know, like, look, dad, I get 200 tickets and it's like three, you know, three millimeters of space that they got to land on. It'd be something like that. Yeah, I could, we could do all sorts of things. It doesn't have to be the wheel. It could be the little thing with the spinning lights or the ball that drops down. Plinko chip. How about a Plinko chip, man? Like a big giant Plinko board with a whole bunch of things. George is on to something here. This is really, we, we got something going here. Just. The price is right.

And don't you love it too? Like when you take your kids, they win all those tickets at ski ball or whatever. Yeah. You go back and then there's nothing like, you know, that you see the Xbox and you're like, I can get this many tickets.

And inevitably you walk away with like a plastic comb. Yeah. You got like a whoopee cushion and you're thinking like, I spent $47 on this $3 thing. I would love to know, I'm going to do an investigation. Has anybody in any arcade ever, anywhere cashed in like for the Xbox?

The 50,000 ticket Xbox. hear from our listener. You would have to spend all summer. And I feel like it's a casino thing, right? Like at a certain point, they kick you out there. They're like, you're not welcome here anymore. You're winning too much on the jackpot ball drop. So, yeah, I don't know about that.

Okay. Justin in Rochester writes in, I was given tickets to a Leafs game as a gift in early March. I've actually never been to Toronto. Want to spend a day there exploring the city. Any recommendations from you guys outside of the Hockey Hall of Fame in terms of things to do? figure hockey media people would intimately be familiar with the so-called capital city of the sport

actually don't include that last part in case any Montreal fans are listening. Oh no, Justin. Let's, we'll just edit that out. Justin in Rochester. Yeah. I, do you have recommended? You've probably done a few more than I do. I mean, I love Toronto and it's a great place to go to a game because the arena's right downtown.

There's a million things to do all around there. and the Hockey Hall of Fame isn't that far away. But what's the what's the wise and sports writers tip here? That's a good question. I mean, yeah, there's a bunch of, was it the Madison that a lot of people go to

after the games and hang out and have drinks? You know, what's a fun place and it's still there to watch a game because the screen is massive as real sports across the street from the arena. That's great. I don't know if Justin and Rochester, or if you're bringing kids or whatever, be prepared.

The Ripley's Aquarium is very cool. Yeah. But it's ridiculously expensive. Have you ever, you never take your kids there? Oh yeah. Yep. Yeah.

It's, uh, it's expensive. And my other tip is the, the touristy thing that you might be tempted to do is to go up the, uh, see the elevator all the way up and get the whole look at the city. Check the weather forecast before you go. Because if you get up,

if it's shoddy. It's been up on a cloud. Guess what? You get it. You can wait a long time and get up there just to, just to look at some some white windows. Yeah, no, exactly. All right. One last email from a listener here. This one's from Sully in Buffalo. We're sticking with upstate New York here. Love the name. Sully, Sully in Buffalo. Well, it couldn't be Sully from, everyone in Boston is Sully, right? So this is Sully, from Buffalo. Just listen to the podcast. Love the Rabbit Hole. That is Pierre Turgeon and Ray Shepard. what I wanted to see and don't have an answer on

is who in NHL history has been traded for the most draft picks ever, involved or not in a single trade. We see a lot of trades for players throwing a pick, whatever, but in the course of a career, how many draft picks has one player been traded for? Would love if there's any way you can find this out. Love the show, have been really enjoying the different topics lately. That's from Sully and Buffalo.

I did think it was interesting that when the lightning traded for Tanner Genoa, whatever that was, feels like it was a year ago, but I know it was like three or four days ago. That's the first time in NHL history that there was a trade for one player involving a first, second, third, fourth, and fifth round pick.

Yeah. I believe. Exactly the guy that you would assume would be the one who got that. You know, I don't know the answer to that other than, yeah, he might be the way now. When he went from, and we're going to get to this in the second here in this week of Nagy history,

But when he went from Edmonton to L.A., was there three first round picks in that trade? Two? I think there were three. Certainly at least two. I think they might have been three. And then later, and in fact, this is the natural segue, right to this week in hockey history.

February 27, 1996, Wayne Gretzky traded to St. Louis for three prospects and another first round pick. So over the course of his career, he was traded for four first rounders. outside of like the Glenn Wesley kind of offer sheet type of thing. I guess that would be the most, right? Like anybody else been traded for?

I don't know if anyone's been traded for four first round picks. Glenn Wesley, I mean, he got traded for three first round picks in one shot, which is a pretty, but that was more of like a compensatory offer sheet situation, right? Oh, it may have, there may have been something involved in that, but it was, you know, if you ever want to get a trivia question of guys who, who were traded for three first-round picks in the same trade. I think it's like Wesley and Kretzky?

And Kretzky are the only two. I'm looking at like Paul Koffey. Paul Koffey was traded in trades involving six draft picks, but that's not, some of those were going the other way. Adam Oates, it looks like four. He got traded for three picks once, but that was, you know, a lot of these guys who were in the 70s and 80s, like you didn't see as many picks in trades as you see these days.

So it's probably someone more. reason. I looked at Mike Cillinger. He was only involved in a couple. So we'd have to see who can get up there. But it would probably be somebody who was traded a lot in the

modern. I don't know. Gustav Nyquist might be up there. I'm looking up Thomas Vanek. Because he's another one. He was a classic deadline. Watch the answer is going to end up being like Nick Benino or something. Could be someone like that. Dominic Moore was dominant. It was

traded for a second round pick, I think about six different deadlines in a row. Yeah. But, yeah, we would have to... Yeah, I'm actually... I'm actually looking. Dominic Moore was traded for a draft pick six times. But, oh, okay, one of those was going with him. So he was traded for a draft pick, a third or a second round draft pick five times in his career.

Not one of the guys, I would assume, would be right up there with Wayne Gretke. But that's the weirdness of this. but yeah, I don't know. It might be holding down the lead. Good work, right. Yeah. Look, I mentioned this week in 1996, the Blues acquired Wayne Gretzky. And then Gretzky gets parachuted into a lineup that features,

you know, the likes of Brad Hall, Hal McKinneths, Dale Howardchuck, and a young Chris Pronger and a like, right, right. And you would think if you just looked at this roster, you're like, damn, they, you know, Grant Fear. Like, man, these. These guys probably went all the way to the stand of the cup. Of course, they got knocked out famously by the Steve Eisenman goal in double overtime in the second round.

But I feel like they're one of the most compelling, interesting teams in NHL history. If I could do like one, if you could pick one team in NHL or hockey history that you would do, like you would want to see a 30 for 30 style documentary, where do the St. Louis Blues rank for, like, who would be more compelling to you than the St. Louis Blues of 90s? In fact, I, way back when I was at Grantland, I started a feature where I would just take a team and a season that I just found interesting and just, and do not even a deep dive, but do a post about it. And that 95-96 Blues team was the very first one that I chose to focus it on because it's, I mean, that was the year. It's Mike Keenan is the coach and the GM. So right there, you know, he's, you know what you're getting with him.

they start Grant Fierer every game. Mike Keenan just decides, I'm not going to use a backup goalie this year. I'm going to start Grant Fear every game. He's like they're calling me Captain Hook? Are they? I'm going to start him every single game, which, you know, leads to all. I mean, this was, this was only 25 years ago. This wasn't like, you know, oh yeah, back in the Jacques Plont days or the goalies.

No, he just decided I'm going to run Grant Fierer, who was not a young guy at that point, out every single night. And they started him every single game until the very end of the, the season when he gets injured and then it gets injured again in the playoffs when Nick Kiprios accidentally falls on his ACL and that's why John Casey is the guy in net for the Eisenman goal, which it leads to all sorts of weird stuff including, I want to say Bruce Racine setting the record for the most appearances by a goalie who never had to start because he was the backup for Grant Fear. So, you know, Fear was having a bad game. Captain Hook would pull

him out. But he never, Bruce was seen never got to start that. entire season and then like came in like 12 or 15 times. Fascinating team. Just all sorts. Dale Howard Chuck was on that team at one point. I think got traded away. Corson was the captain, right? Corson was the captain until Gretzky got there and then they like argued over like you be the captain.

No, I want you to keep it. Wayne Gretzky, his first game in as a blue, Keenan played him 27 minutes as a forward. 27 minutes. Game didn't go into overtime. 27 minute game. Just absolutely wild. And the number one thing that I remember about that trade in that team is you had Wayne Gretzky, not in his prime, but still a very, very good player. Remember, he led the league and assist twice with the Rangers.

So even at the very end of his career, he's a playmaking savant. And you've got Brett Hull, who at the time is, you know, still close to his prime. He's basically the Ovechkin of that era. And you're sitting there going, these two are going to be absolutely unstoppable together. you've got the all-time greatest setup guy and a guy who's on pace to be a top five all-time goal score these guys are just absolutely going to wreck it together and we'd seen what Hull had done with Adam Oates

and Craig Janney and guys like that oh my gosh he's got Gretzky he's going to get a hat trick every night never click didn't click they never looked good together it was very very strange but to this day Wayne Gretzky you know maybe his most famous moment with the blues who is coughing up the puck on the way to that Eisenman goal if you're a hockey fan, thank Wayne Gretzky for that. Because Eisenman scoring that goal is what puts Detroit into the next round

where they face the Colorado avalanche. Claude Lemieux hits Chris Draper from behind, and we get the greatest rivalry of the modern NHL era launches from that. If Wayne Gretzky doesn't cough up the puck, we might never have had the Wings Avalanche rivalry. Yeah, exactly. All right, you know, I just thought of one other team. Let me give you one other team that I think I would rather watch

a 30 for 30 style documentary on other than the 95-96 St. Louis Blues. Ready for this? Yep. Team USA 98 Nagano Olympics. Oh, if you had access, man, you can give me the real truth? Yeah, I want to be in that where the hotel room is trash. Yeah, I don't want 30 minutes of Chelyos and Holland those guys. Yeah, I want the real story.

Give me the real story, I would absolutely. You need more than 30 minutes for that, but I'm on that, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I figured. All right, we'd love to hear from our listeners. if you could do a 30 for 30 documentary in any NHL or hockey team ever. Who you pick in? Who you pick in and get the behind the scenes look on that.

All right. That wraps it up and I'm sure again, as soon as we had published, there might be more deals or whatever, but listen, this has been a blast. The one thing I never asked you is like, I can't believe this because this has been a wild week for the Maple Leafs.

More confident? Let me close the show with this. More confident, less confident, or the same? You're feeling towards the loops in the planet. I would say about the same after all the moves of last week. The Ryan O'Reilly trade nudges the confidence up. That was, you know, I think since, not since our last episode. With the caveat, the asterisk I'm putting on this is they got that first round pick in the Sandine deal.

They've got Boston's first. I don't think they still have it this time tomorrow, which means in theory at least they could make another move. So I'm kind of want to mark them incomplete right now. But for now, the deals with, you know, Shen and McCabe and guys like that, it's, you know, it's, it's okay. It's, uh, didn't, uh, didn't necessarily move the needle a ton confidence-wise for me, one direction or the other. Yeah. Well, anyway, it's going to be interesting. And there could be more moves in the next day or two that, uh, maybe sway people's confidence in one direction or the other.

I'll tell you what. Speaking of that, live trade deadline recap show going to be happening on Friday. we're going to start at 2.30 Eastern Time. I'm going to be myself, Haley Salvean, and we're going to have a whole cast of character. Sean Gentile's going to drop by. James Myrtle. I'm sure maybe we might even get you in there, Sean.

Who knows? So be on standby. It'll be on the Athletic Hockey Show YouTube channel. Facebook, Twitter, all of that. Again, 230 Eastern Time, 11.30 a.m. Pacific time on Friday. Get you caught up on everything that happened in and around the NHL trade deadline on Friday. But thank you very much for listening to this Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. As always, drop us an email.

Love to hear your questions, your comments, anything we talk about, the athletic hockey show at gmail.gmell.com or a voicemail at 845445-4-5-8449. And right now, a one-year subscription to the athletic is available to you for just $2 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show.