The Athletic Hockey Show - Brad Marchand returns to Boston as America’s Rat

Episode Date: October 20, 2025

The theme of this week’s episode is “returns”. Joel Quenneville made his return to Chicago last night as the head coach of the Anaheim Ducks. ESPN’s NHL insider Emily Kaplan joins the show to talk about Brad Marchand making his return to TD Garden when his Florida Panthers take on the Boston Bruins tomorrow night. And, Jesse Granger helps close out the show discussing the goalies who have returned to form this season.Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusWith: Jesse Granger and ESPN’s Emily KaplanExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Mark Lazarus for another episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. And we are talking about returns today. As Joel Quenville and his return to Chicago, the great Emily Kaplan from ESPN, going to join us a little bit later on to talk about Brad Marchand and his return to Boston. Jesse coming on talking about some goalies returning to form. So we got a real nice, tight theme today, which I really love. and for all of our YouTube listeners and viewers,

a reminder to go follow us there. Hopefully, you enjoy this one today, Laz. It should be, there's a lot on tap. I just don't want you to talk about how you came back and beat me in fantasy. I don't want Jesse to come on here and talk about how his Broncos humiliated my Giants last night with their comeback.

So let's focus on the hockey today because everything else is going poorly. What a missed opportunity. I didn't even think to bring that up in the same conversation. Producer Chris and I co-run a team and we came back and beat you. I had a slim lead going into last night.

I needed some guys. I picked up a bunch of ducks in Blackhoss because that was really all that was going on. And then that game was 1-0 through 59 minutes. It didn't go well for me at all. I don't think anyone saw a 2-1 overtime game in that one, but that is obviously not even the story that everyone's going to be talking about coming out of that game. Right. So that is Joel Quenville. And I am always curious when there's a game like this, there's a lot of anticipation.

What's he going to say? Reality does not always live up to the build up there. So what was your impression of how that day kind of unfolded? Well, it's kind of strange, right? Because this isn't the first time he's coached at the United Center on the opposing team. He came back with the Panthers. We went through all that. And they had a huge press conference and all the TV cameras.

They had to set up this press conference in an auxiliary locker room. It was super cramped. It was hot as hell. It was a whole big thing. But this is the first time he's come back since the Jenner and Block Report about the Brad Aldrich sexual abuse allegations and the lawsuits and everything that went down. But, you know, the ducks came in around 3 3rd in the afternoon yesterday. and there were like five of us there. There were no TV cameras.

The bears were playing just a few miles away. And this is where I'm at with this. I've been writing about this now for what, four years, more than four years, five years almost, since the lawsuit, the Kyle Beach lawsuit first surfaced. And, you know, you live in this bubble and you think everyone cares and you think it's the biggest story.

And then I'm not so sure because it feels like Joel Quendville literally said, I've moved on. He said that I'm in the league now and I've moved on. And he, you know, he said all the right things about, you know, he could have been more forceful and could have asked more questions, could have pressed the issue, all that stuff. But he said he's moved on and it sort of feels like the hockey world's moved on. I'm kind of curious, you're in Detroit. You're not in the

midst of this the way that we are. You're not in the, in the trenches on the story. Is this old news at this point? Because this still felt like a really big deal in Chicago. I wouldn't say it's old news. I mean, obviously I think everyone's, there's not much new that's going to come out, though, I think is the situation, right? And so Joel Quenville, in theory, will have had his reckoning already, right? And so that I think is the only real question that's left to be answered is like, what did he take away from all of this? And it sounds like, at least from reading your column today, it sounds like he and Kyle Beach have had conversations. Like, you know, I don't know to what extent that's everyone in the world is going to be willing to move on and forget. I don't know that

it's something you should forget. And that I think was the point of your column. But I also don't know how much more new is going to come out of this once we close kind of this, this chapter of it now that he has returned. Right. And, you know, and that, that's what this felt like. This was turning the last page on like the darkest chapter in Blackhawks history, right? This was the last hurdle to get through. You had, you know, the first you had the lawsuits, then you had the investigation, then you had the report. You had the ousters of Bowman and Quenville and then, you know, McDonough and Blunk and McIsaac. Shevel Deaoff kind of got away. Then you had, you know, the reinstatement and then you had Bowman hired his introductory press

conference. He dodged a subpoena. Then you have Quenville. He's hired. He's reinstated. And now this felt like last step. This is the last time that this story, that the Brad Aldrich story, the assistant video coach for the Blackhawks in 2010 who assaulted these men, this is the last time that that's going to be the main story it felt like. And, you know, it's, it's strange because like, yeah, they're moving on. And they paid a price. I mean, four years away from the league when you're chasing Scotty Bowman and you're trying to, you know, Joel Quenvo lost millions of dollars and he lost a lot of time. But it's kind of up to every fan to decide if that's a sufficient punishment. Like, for me, it comes down to it that the men in that room

that when they were brought those allegations and they decided not to do anything because they were in the midst of a Stanley Cup playoff run in 2010. It was just after the Western Conference final just before the Stanley Cup final. They decided that winning was more important. And because of their inaction, because nobody stood up and did the right thing, nobody went to the police, nobody went to HR, nobody pushed John McDonough to make sure he was doing something. A young man, a child, a child in Michigan three years ago was sexually assaulted by Brad Aldrich

because of what they didn't do. That's a direct causation to me. And for me, there's no coming back from that. But here they are. They're in the league. These men are back. They're making millions of dollars. They have high profile jobs.

They're right back in the positions they vacated. And it just feels like the hockey world has moved on for better or worse. I think one of the ways that ultimately, Quinville will be judge. As you said, it's going to be up to every fan for decided to themselves is on kind of body language and on do people believe what he says when he says, you know, he could have been more forceful if he seems like he learned. Like what were the emotions like from Joel Quenville yesterday at the United Center?

You know, he was, he was, it's hard because Joel's like for all of the emotion that you see on the ice, he's not a verbose guy. He's never been good in scrums. He doesn't give you that kind of emotion, except maybe like after a hard loss or something like that. He's, it sort of feels like he knows he has to say these things, but he's trying to get through it real fast. Like, it's hard to know if it's, you know, I know that he has spoken with Kyle Beach. I know that they've had discussions. I know that, you know, he brought up that he's spoken.

spoke to the ducks about it, like on day one when he was hired about accountability and what that means and all that. But it's hard to know what's performative and what's genuine, right? Like, I feel like Stan Bowman did a lot of genuine work to get back, you know, you know, you know, Sheldon Kennedy stood up for him and said that he's been putting in that effort. He stood by him. He has also spoken with Beach. But you just don't know how much of that is done because they genuinely want to improve and make sure this doesn't happen again. and how much of it was done as a necessary box to check to get back into the league. And we'll just never know that.

Joel Quedville's never going to do some like lengthy sit down where he bears his soul. It's just not his style. So it's kind of up to every individual person to decide how much you believe and how much you think he deserves to be back. Tough part is, you know, I think everyone is going to hope to never find out what he's learned because you never want to be in a situation like that ever again. So it's a tough one and I'm sure it was a strange day, it's especially strange to go from that right into a hockey game. And I'm sure that's a strange blend of emotions.

It turned out to be a really good hockey game too, like really tight game, overtime game, the whiplash of that. Yeah, I mean, that's, we're kind of getting used to that in Chicago in the last several years. Like, there's things like I remember when, when Rocky Words had his meltdown in that town hall about we're not talking about Kyle Beach anymore. That was like an hour before a game against the Minnesota Wild and I'm banging out a column about getting, you know, humiliated on live TV by a billionaire. And the Wild are just playing the Blackhawks on the ice. It's just kind of a thing that you get used to around here. But, yeah, the game was, it was an interesting game. These are two up-and-coming teams.

It's funny because, like, you know, Joel Quentville did mention, not every question was about the Brad Aldrich situation. But he did say that it feels in Anaheim right now, it feels like it did when he took over the Blackhawks in 2008, 2008, 2009. You got this young, exciting team full of young talent, a couple of key veterans, and you're trying to get them over that hump. And that's kind of where the Blackhawks are, too. It's kind of a similar situation.

The Blackhawks, I think, have taken more of, a step this year than people thought. So this was like a really competitive, exciting, fast-paced game between two of the more fun teams in the league. And that's not a thing you would have said about either of these teams in recent years. No, I mean, the movement in Chicago even, like a year ago, I didn't feel like they were as exciting as they were now. And part of that is the players who came up over the course of last year, the guys who established themselves more. I think Frank Nazar has very quickly put himself on a trajectory where he's knocking on the door of like the upper echel of emerging young talent in the NHL at this point. He scores a huge goal in that game.

But it's all, you know, Sam Renzel and Artem Levsinov. So all of a sudden, these are two fast, young, exciting teams. And of course, when you have two fast, you know, exciting teams, you expect them to play a two, one, tight checking game. It was one-nothing for 59 and a half minutes until the duck scored with the power play and the net pulled. And then the Blackhawks go and win in overtime, Ronor Bred, setting up Ryan Donato. But yeah, yeah, it was low scoring, but it was a lot of chances, right?

I mean, Spencer Knight, we're not talking enough about Spencer Knight. He is lapping the field and gold saved above expected through the first couple of weeks of the season. He's already at like 12 or 13 goals saved above expected in five starts. He has been fabulous. He made 38 saves yesterday and a lot of them really good. And it's amazing what having a goal he can do in the confidence of a young team like that, knowing that, yeah, I mean, I could push a little bit offensively because if I make a mistake, I got someone back there who can bail me out.

That's a guy I got to give Corey Prominment a ton of credit on. his quarry problem and through it all never gave up on what Spencer Knight could be. I mean, even a year ago when he's kind of just backing up, like we were projecting out Olympic rosters, not for 2026, but for 2030. And he was like, Knights got to be on there. Like nights. And I'm in my head, I'm like, okay, like, you know, a lot of talent, obviously, you know, you know what Hellibook's age is going to be. I can buy it, but he was pretty steadfast on night. And, you know, we're 10 days into the season here, but certainly looks like Spencer Knight is, is capable of having a breakout season this year. Yeah, and it's funny. You know, we talked about an age.

and Knight, and, you know, I was at the game with my partner, Scott Powers last night. And he's like, we're kicking around story ideas for the game story. And he's like, we should just write about how these, this Knight and Nasar contracts are just, it looks so good in hindsight, right? And he's completely right. I mean, you know, Spencer Knight's three years at like $5.8 million. And Nazar is a long-term, seven-year deal at like $6 million. Nazar is over a point of game right now. He looks every bit of top six center in this league.

And he's only going to get better. It's going to be like, I don't want to, this is, I do not mean. to say that Frank Nazar is going to be Nathan McKinnon, but that contract is going to feel a little bit like Nathan McKinnon's contract when he really clicked, and he was still making $6 million a year when he was the second or third best player in the world. It's going to have that kind of vibe to it, where this guy signed until he's 28 at a ridiculously low rate in the modern day NHL. And he's good for him and he got that security, but really good for Kyle Davidson that he's locked him up long term. And I feel really good for Jeff Blasheel about this too. I mean,

Jeff Blasheels doesn't have the Kyle Davis. Davidson kind of gets the credit because he's the one who assembled all these guys. But Jeff Blaschell didn't get an opportunity like this when he was in Detroit. He got the tear down when he was in Detroit. And so to see him step into a situation where the young players are already there and they're not having to force these guys onto the roster and look for an opportunity for them. You know, I'm really happy for Jeff Blashele that he gets, because this is where he's going to excel, I think.

Is it working with these young players instilling these habits, getting them to play NHL hockey, right? And so you could speak to that more than I can of how he's taken to that so far. but from afar, from a guy who covered him for four or five years to start my career here in Detroit, I don't think he ever had a collection of talent like this. Yeah, and he's working them hard, too. Like, they are skating almost every day. They, you know, they played a full game day on Friday with a morning skate and a

and a game. Then they practiced on Saturday. And then they had a Sunday, early game on Sunday. They had a 9.30 a.m. morning skate. And those morning skates, they're not just getting the legs loose. They are practicing. They are working on things. Systems and power play and penalty kill.

He is driving these guys hard and they're taking to it. Like a young team with some veterans on it could really backlash against something like that. There could be some real blowback to a coach, but they're buying in and the fact that they're playing so well. They have been tied after the second period in five of their games and winning after the second period in the other two. They have not trailed entering a third period this year. They're playing really good hockey. And they're still learning the system. They're still working on it.

There's a lot to be excited about in Chicago for the first time in a while, and Blashele deserves a lot of the credit. It's funny how that youth does that. I'm seeing it right now in Detroit with the current Red Wings, right, is you bring up these three rookies and all of a sudden there's this new energy that there hasn't always been. For as much as Detroit's been a rebuilding team, you'd think they would have had a bunch of years like this where they had three rookies.

The only time they really had multiple that I can think of, multiple true rookies was, I guess they had Casper and Johansson last year, but, you know, Cider and Raymond's first year had this level of excitement to it. And now with Emmett Finney, who's been excellent, scored his first goal in a three-point game playing against the McDavid line yesterday against the Oilers. You got Michael Brancic-Neigard, Axel Sandine Pelica. There's a ton of energy. And it reminds me just how far it goes to have those young players.

I think it just kind of energizes the entire room. Yeah. And to me, Detroit's the story of the season so far, right? Like, who are the best teams league? Carolina? Yeah, of course. Vegas? Yeah, of course.

Colorado? Yeah, of course. Detroit? I mean, we had all kind of, like, moved on from Detroit. Like, they're just never going to put it together. They're going to be the 10th place team in the league every year forever. and I know it's early. It's only a couple of weeks into the season,

but they look great. They're, what, five and one? And they look really good doing it. Like, it seems like they've really turned a corner. Beyond the rookies, what is contributing to that? Well, there's a few things. I mean, they have had a favorable schedule, which people are going to hear and they're going to go,

what are you talking about? They played six playoff teams to begin the year. Not in terms of opponents. It's in terms of the when they're catching these teams, right? So you get Toronto early in the years. They're still figuring out how to play without Mitch Marner. You catch Florida as they're still figuring out how to play without Alexander Barkov.

Matthew Kachuk. Kucharov was sick for the game in Detroit. The Oilers, you catch them on the second day of a back-to-back with travel and a three and four with all of it has had travel. So there's some favorable things there. Now, at the same time, the Red Wings have been without Patrick. They were without Patrick Kane yesterday. They've been without Lucas Raymond for stretches. He played yesterday. Wasn't 100%. I'm not taking anything away from the Red Wings here. But I do think circumstance plays a little bit of a part in this. But I'll also just say, like, I think Todd McClellan deserves a lot of this credit. And I think Dylan Larkin deserves a lot of this credit. There's probably nowhere you can't look to and find some reason that the Red

Wings are doing this. But Dylan Larkin had maybe the best game of his career yesterday. And he had tied a career high with four points. He did it while playing like 17 minutes head to head against Connor McDavid and holding him to two shots on goal. And they're getting it from up and down the lineup. It's been it's been a total team effort. I will see how long it's just, I don't know that it's going to sustain to this level, right? Those teams that you mentioned are are the teams like you said that we all expect to be here all year. I don't expect Detroit to be in that conversation all year. But they've certainly made a case that they're legit. And I don't want to rain on anybody's parade there because there's a lot to be excited about for the Red Wings right now,

starting with the rookies, starting with what they're seeing from Larkin, and certainly starting with Todd McClellan. What do we make of this Atlantic division? Because I think a lot of us thought that there was no path forward for maybe like a Buffalo or Detroit to make that next step. It seems like everyone's kind of scuffling. It's, you know, Montreal's looking good. Toronto's in complete disarray. Anthony Stolars is calling out his teammates for their poor play and their lacklester play and for not protecting him. The Panthers, we're going to talk about them in a little bit with Emily Kaplan. They are, they've lost four in a row and they've scored four goals in their last four games.

Boston is maybe more competitive than we thought, but I don't think anyone looks at them as a threat. Buffalo is a disaster. Tampa Bay was supposed to be running away with this according to our preseason predictions at the athletic, and they look terrible. They have one win, and Ottawa's off to a slow start. What do you make of this division right now? I make of it that it's October 20th. I mean, it's as simple as that. Weird stuff happens at the start of a season, right?

I mean, teams that have been there, done that, I think it is hard for those teams to get up for the beginning. Teams that are trying to break through like your Detroit's of the world. I think it's essential. The urgency comes quick. Todd McClellan, we talked about it last week, called out his team after the first game with the urgency. It worked. And it worked. So that's what I mean is it's October 20th, and I think you see that reflected.

But there are little things within what you just said that I think are important. And I think the Red Bing is getting out to a hot star does help them kind of believe in themselves. turn the page and so things like that, I think, are very real. Things like the Panthers, I think we're seeing the expected adjustment that you make to having to play without some of your best players. I can't really explain the lightning besides, you know, Kutrov having an illness and missing some time. That one's weird to me, watching them.

Like, their push in the third period against the Red Wings on Friday night, like, they should have had three goals last. Like, they were outstanding. They get one. John Gibson was outstanding. Sometimes you get goalied for a little bit, but you also don't want to dig too deep a hole. This is not a league that you can come back from 10 points down early in the season, 10 points out of the wild card and make a run. You can't let this linger.

Yeah, but you're right, though, about how I feel like it's more important for a unexpected team to have a good start than it is for a championship caliber team to have, you know, it's not an issue for them to have a bad start. When you look at like Chicago and Detroit and Utah, Seattle, Seattle hasn't lost regulation this year, that snowball's in the right direction where all of a sudden you start getting that confidence and you start, you know, buying in a little bit more and you start playing better and better and better. Teams like Tampa and Florida, it's easier just to go like, all right, all right, it's October 20th. Don't worry about it. Don't worry. We'll be fine. But for those teams that aren't necessarily guaranteed playoff spots, a hot start can make all the difference.

Things start, you know, they can snowball in the other direction too if you get off to a slow start and you and I have covered enough of those to know that if you start out one, four and one or something like that, you're just never getting out of that hole. But when you start out well, things start to go in that direction and confidence builds and confidence, especially for a young team, can carry you a really long way in this league. It's amazing what happens when those young players who don't know any better start to think that they can really do this. And a lot of the time, they can. And so, you know, it doesn't always, like I said, I don't think it's going to work out to this level for really necessarily any of

the teams that we're talking about. But getting off to that good start helps, I think, raise the floor a little bit. And I think that's a big deal. We're going to have trouble scheduling this podcast when it's that Wingshawks Stanley Cup in June. We're going to have to really find some time. Yeah, we'll have to make time. But if that day comes to pass, I have a feeling we'll find a way. Let's take a break right there. We'll come back with

Emily Kaplan. All right, we are back and we are joined now by ESPN NHL insider Emily Kaplan, who you can catch on ESPN's broadcast of Panthers Bruins Tuesday night at 730 for Brad Marchand's return to TD Garden. Emily, welcome to the hockey show and how much were you sweating as he

was taking apart Rasmus Maldine's helmet worried that he might not be on the ice for that game. Yeah, maybe not sweating as much as my bosses and maybe NHL league executives who were like, oh, finally a regular season game with some juice. But I'm so happy to chat with both of you guys and welcome. Apologies if there's any background noise, but welcome to the O'Hare United Lounge. You guys probably know places like this very well. Are you in Terminal C or are you in one of the ones in B?

We're in a nice one in B. Like right when you want to secure you go to that one on the left. Yeah. It's home away from home for me. Absolutely. Yeah, phone booth. So shout out to the guy that was letting me read down his neck for a couple of minutes. And finally succumb to the pressure of Emily Kaplan.

Huge. Well, we appreciate it and we appreciate you doing this. Obviously, it's going to be a fun one on tap here. And I think the big storyline is obviously Marshawn, but it also comes at a interesting moment for both of these teams who all of a sudden really need the win. Totally. So I got off the phone with Don Sweeney this morning. And it was funny. I was asking him what he thought about his team.

but he's like would have had a very different answer if you asked me before the road trip asked to how they played out west. And I feel like it's always with these guys, right? They live so much in the moment. And I think there were so many good, positive vibes with the Bruins to start the year. They were really excited about, okay, like, we're resetting the culture here. We have Marco Sturm. I understand last year was really upsetting for a lot of the players and the fans.

But like, we're moving forward here. And you get caught in, you know, sometimes these ebbs and flows of the season. So they're coming in feeling a little desperate, feeling like they want to be. to reestablish themselves. And then you have the Panthers, the team that everyone's just like, okay, they need to make the playoffs and they'll be fine, but they got to make the playoffs. And I remember being there ahead of their first game of the season and Paul Murray saying, like, how much every game matters now. And in some ways, if he felt like the Barkov injury and the Matthew injury were blessings and disguises for his team, because it would give them some humility

early on. But like the hits just came coming, right? Like you then lose Kulikov, Mikula, like, those are more short term, at least Mikulah. what I is, but they're going to definitely get tested here, and games like this really matter for them. Like, they need every two points of the standings. Yeah, I spent some time in Florida before the season, too, and Maurice told me the same thing. It's like the injuries to bark off and Kachuk really focused the team. Like, they realize, oh, crap, we got to take this regular season seriously, which is not necessarily something they did really last year when they were just kind of cruising to get into the playoffs. But it's weird, because you look at some of the

numbers, and it's like, all right, this four game losing streak there are. They've scored four goals in four games and some of it is kind of fluky. Like Sam Bennett has a 69% expected goal share and he's been outscored five to one in these four games. Like a lot of this is like they'll regress in the mean. It'll be fine. But these injuries are where it's really getting them because that depth is going to be tested all year without Barkov and there is no depth right now, right?

They're getting nothing from their bottom sticks. They're getting none of that scoring support that they really need. You know, where can what can they do other than just hope things get better? Yeah, hope things get better. Hope that Sergei Robosky steals you some games. games. I think this is one of those situations and seasons for this team where, like, they know that it's going to be hard at times. And I think what they really just need to do is trust their veteran guys that are going to pull them through. But to your point, like, this is not an

organization that really has a prospectful or like guys that are itching to get the call up in the minors. Like you've got Matthew Samisovic, you know, a guy that they were really excited about and not much else behind him. So I think what they need is just, you know, they're big guys to step I think they're going to have to have some kind of aha moment of things really spiral here of like, all right, guys, like, we need to refocus. We need to play with a level of desperation that we don't necessarily want to be playing with in October or early November. But, like, in terms of doing things differently and adjusting their style, I think the one thing that I've appreciated the most about the Panthers throughout this dominant run they've had the last two plus seasons here is that, like, they play to the exact same identity. Like, they're almost becoming the Carolina hurricanes and their predictability.

It's like a really hard system to play. They know what it takes. it's just mentally and physically exhausting. And sometimes they don't necessarily want to be playing that this early in the season, but right now they have to. Yeah, and they've played an entire season's worth of hockey that other teams have in plays. The last thing you want to be doing is grinding out games in October when you've played until the end of June in three straight stream.

That's the challenge they're facing. They're trying to become the first team to go deep in the playoffs, to go to four straight Stanley Cup finals in 42 years. So it's asking a lot. No, it definitely is. I think when you talk about with the identity, like you're with, without two of those identity setters. When you don't have Barkov, you don't have Kachuk,

all of a sudden you're asking, you're not just asking everyone to maintain that identity. You're asking them to rise up and lead it, right? So Sam Reinhardt, who, you know, he's been one of the best players in the NHL for the last few seasons. Now he's front and center. Like, no longer is Alexander Barkov, the first name that's circled on the scouting report,

it's going to be Sam Reinhardt. You're asking Sam Bennett. You're asking Anton Lindell. You're asking Brad Marchand to do a lot more lifting than you were on those cup runs where they're able to kind of like succeed partly because so much attention is going elsewhere. Totally. I would say this about the Panthers too. It's like we look at their roster right now. And like, I think we're all expecting Barkoff to come back at some point. Like I don't think they're going to use his full money. Like Bill Zito says that like he really doesn't know about the timeline. But like these aren't everything we understand. Like this is the guy that's attacking rehab vigorously and we should come back. But Kulikov is a long term injury. Like you don't have Matthew Kach till the summer. They're going to have a little bit of flexibility to play with here. And you know they're going to be aggressive. And I think they are going to bring in some. other guys at some point this season. And the one thing that we can appreciate as hockey fans

and observers is almost to a T, every player that Bill Zito and his management staff has brought in, has had their best career year with the Florida Panthers. Like they identify the right guys that can fit into that system and then they mold them exactly what they want. So I think in some sense, they're getting their own reinforcements, but they'll also get more reinforcements. But to your point, like these guys that are now overtax, getting, you know, the star treatment in ways that, you know, they were able to spread it out before. Like, they need to still play at a very high level. Like, you can't just sit around and wait for these guys to come.

Let's get into the Brad Marchand of it all. He, you know, I sat down with him before the season opener. And I think he used the word rejuvenated like four times in like a 15-minute conversation. We all rolled our eyes a little bit when he signed a six-year contract at his age. But he just really seems to have found a second life in Florida. What do you think it's going to be like for him going back to Boston, which basically thought that he was, cooked. Well, Mark, I think that does speak to my earlier point that everybody who goes down there to

Florida seems to have their career year. I've had this little pet theory, by the way, like everyone talks about, oh, it's the tax advantage. Like, oh, there's like maybe less media attention. I actually think it's just the warm weather and on guys' joints. I don't think people speak about that enough. I know I sound really woo-woo here, but every player anecdotally I talk to you that goes down there. It's just like, my body feels amazing. But, you know, I think, especially when I'm referring back, to my conversation with Don Sweeney and I asked him like, were there conversations even after you traded Brad Marshand about bringing him back as a free agent? He's like, well, we didn't get that opportunity because he never got to market right. He resigned with his own team. But they definitely

internally discussed it, but it would have to be within the parameters of the Bruins. And it was so clear that the Bruins were not willing to offer this guy at the age of 36 at the time of last year's trade deadline, who was on injured reserve. There was concerns about his body and how it was going to hold up a long-term deal. And Brad was so confident in himself as he always is and says, no, like, I know I can play a lot longer and I know I can play a lot longer at a higher level. And the Florida Panthers not only believed in him to do that, but gave him the ability to do that, both with their vitamin D and their culture. And that's why, you know, he is playing at such a high level still. So I think, you know, in terms of what

I'm expecting, I think it'll be very emotional. I think the Bruins organization will like to have moved on from this, right? Like, he was such a big part of our history. We thank him for his service. Like, we thank him, you know, for all that he's done. But, like, we, you really need a focus on Marco Sturm and going forward, but they recognize what he means, both to the organization and the fans. So there will be a video tribute. It'll be very emotional. You know, Charlie McAvoy told me, like, I'm expecting the crowd to get up and give him a huge standing ovation, and then I'm expecting them to boo him exactly right after, like, every time he touches a puck. And I think that's just so perfectly Boston. So I think it's just going to be a really

interesting night overall. And I think the guys are also expecting for Marshan to be running his mouth the entire time and just chirping them, even though he's still in their buddies. Like, that's what he does. It's perfectly Boston. It's also perfectly Marchand. We were talking about it before you came on. This is a guy who, when he was on the Bruins, everyone was like, oh, he's a rat. He's got this kind of villain persona. And I feel like when he's gone to Florida, he's kind of become America's rat at this point.

Like, I feel like people love him now more than they did before. I think because he's just so unapologetically himself. Like, he doesn't care about so many of these like unspoken roles in hockey of like, never speak about yourself, never stir the pot. like never call it opponents and press conferences, never show like throw dirt on your former employer, like all of these things. The things that he's saying behind the scenes at the dinner table with his buddies in the group chat,

he brings to us in the media. And I think that's why he's so refreshing. So I think if anyone can like seize this moment and make the most of it and make it absolute cinema, it's going to be Brad Marjand. The betting markets for what it's worth. We talked about the Panthers and the situation they're in. You know, Bet MGM still has Florida's over under on points at 97.5.

So they still believe that the Panthers can write the ship. On Boston, it's interesting that they're at 80.5, right? Which I don't think is too far off where any of us expected, the Bruins. But they're a team that fascinates me because to your point, like they've played all these close games. Like every game, even their 4-1 loss of the avalanche. Like one of those is an empty netter. They're in all these games. It's just can you find that offense that you're going to need to win them?

Yeah. And that was the big question, right? And I think they're not getting enough out of their top six right now. I think that they're happy with some of the depth that they were able to bring in. penalty trouble. That was one of the things that Don Sweeney cited to me of just like an issue, like just discipline. Like you can't let the abs get that many power play opportunities, even though their penalty kill has been pretty decent. But just overall with this team, I think they want to go in the right direction here. And they feel like a lot of people are

writing them off because of everyone. They said goodbye to you. And there's still a lot of good there. Like if you talk to anyone in the organization, they say like, campus lit home, no one was talking about what a big loss that was for us. Like nobody was. And once he's back and I'm expecting him to play in this. game like he'll be massive they just the same way the panthers do like they need their big guys to step up because they just don't have the depth at this moment um to be able to sustain cold streaks from those guys as a fellow tri-state area person i know you probably grew up hating boston but it's great eating town you got a place sam lagrosses for me might be my favorite sandwich in the league

what do you got so my grandpa grew up in boston i'm got a little moushole in me he's a dorchester guy um you know anywhere in north end i think you can't really go wrong i've been to so many of those spots and they're all good. I just want a nice pasta visually tonight and I'll be happy. She is Emily Kaplan. You can catch her on Panthers, Bruins, ESPN 730 on Tuesday. Emily, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks, guys. I appreciate you. All right, we are back and we are joined now by Jesse Granger. And Jesse at the top, we talked about how the theme of today's show was Returns. We've talked about Joel Quinville. We've talked about Brad Marchand. Now let's talk about some goalies who are returning to the players that we thought we knew. And we're starting to doubt whether

they were that player. And I want to start with the guy in Nashville because this was the one that I was actually worried about. UC Soros is so reliant on athleticism. And so as age ticks up, you start to wonder is a cliff coming? And when you see a year like last year, right after he signs that big contract, I heard alarm bells. Looks like that one's okay. Yeah, UC Soros has been awesome to start this season. And as you mentioned, I think most importantly, he's showing that he still has that quick, quick twitch kind of reaction time within like when players are in tight on him. He's he's been a big part of why Nashville has looked much better. He's been giving up about two goals a game. The other night, he did give up four against Winnipeg on Saturday. But if you watch that game, that might have been

his best game so far. He, he made a ton of amazing saves in that game. I think they gave up like four breakways to Winnipeg and then another couple of backdoor tapings for goals. But like I said, to me, when I watch Uzi Soros, the thing that is the most encouraging that tells me he is still an elite goalie and he still has the ability to be that goalie we've seen in past seasons is when players get in tight on him. I talked about all the breakaways they gave up. He gets really wide with his skates because he's a smaller goalie. He's got to cover that bottom of the net. He gets super, super wide with his stance. And when you do that, your edges dig into the ice deeper because there's like a hard angle there. He's somehow able to do that and stay light on his edges so that he can

react because when you do get those edges dug in, you are basically stuck in the ice. And if it goes left or right, you're in big trouble. U.C. Soros isn't. He somehow finds a way to still stay light on those edges. He reacts to it. His ability to when a person pulls a deke one way or the other to shift his entire body weight and not just stick a leg out like you see most goalies, he moves his entire body with the deke. It almost looks like he's like there's a magnet between him and the player's stick when they're coming in on him. It's super impressive. And he'd look. like the UC Saras of old. Now, can Nashville keep playing well in front of him is the big question?

Because last year, I actually thought he was pretty good for the first couple months. And eventually he broke down because the reads were just so difficult because that team was so bad in front of him. So we'll see if Nashville can maintain this. But so far, very, very encouraging signs from UC. You know, Nashville, they were respectable two, two and two right now. But there's still, like, after last season, they had to be rethinking their entire franchise at this point.

Why wouldn't a team like Edmonton just be throwing everything they possibly? can at Nashville to try to pry UC Saros out of there. And shouldn't Nashville kind of be okay with that? Yeah, I mean, I was waiting for Nashville to start O and 4 so I could immediately start writing those stories. Edmonton needs to call Nashville. That hasn't happened. And I think like if you're Nashville wants to do everything they can to not trade UC

Soros. To me, that's like a last minute. Like if it's clear this team can't win and it is clear we're going to have to completely rebuild everything. At that point, you do have to trade him and get maximum value for him because, I mean, we're talking about his age. He's not going to retain that maximum value for much longer for another couple of years, maybe. So you do need to get that if you're not going to be able to win with him. But I think right now, if you're Nashville, you're still telling yourself, we've got Stephen Stancoe's, we've got Jonathan Marshall. So these are, Philip Forsberg is kind of

maybe getting towards the end of his prime. We can still win with these guys. And I think they want to try to win with them at all costs. If they, like I said, if a month from now, they're out of the playoff picture and it's becoming abundantly clear that they can't win with this group, then yes, I think they would consider trading them. It is a huge contract. You don't see many seven-year deals get traded in the NHL. It's not easy to find cap space for that.

But if you're a team that needs a goalie, I think you will find space for UCSaurus because he's that good. We spent a lot of time on the last segment talking about the Bruins and how they've been in all these tight games. Obviously, not as good of the last three or four as they were to begin the season, but you can't blame Jeremy Swayman for that. Yeah, he's looked really, really good. I actually got to talk with Jeremy when he was here in Vegas.

That was ironically his worst game. Maybe they should stop talking to me. He gave up six here in Vegas against the Golden Knights. But outside of that one game, he has been awesome. And I had a good chat with him about how good this offseason was for him. Last year was tough for Jeremy Swayman. And like, I know we're, we're, it's, it's so awful for him to get a huge contract and the pressure that comes with that. It's obviously not that bad of a situation.

But that contract comes with so much pressure. He loses the safety blanket that was Linus Olmark, who when, like, I don't know if people understand how much different pressure is on a goalie when he doesn't have that partner. When you're, when you have a partnership like Linus Olmark and Jeremy Swayman had, if you aren't feeling good this week, the other guy just takes the games and your stats don't get worse. Whereas when you're the guy, if you're not feeling it this week and you're not, you're not tracking the pucks as well as you want, your body's not feeling right, too bad. You're going in there and your safe percentage is going to suffer. And I think he had to, like that was a mental hurdle he had to get over. Being the guy, you're going to play whether you're feeling good or not.

You don't have that other guy as a safety blanket. You have this contract and the expectations to come with it. And then you add in the fact that Boston became significantly worse in front of him. And it was just a disaster of a season. He didn't have the success he wanted. he goes into the summer. He reset mentally. He leads the U.S. to a gold medal in the world championships. I think that that had a huge impact on him. I think that it gets you feeling like you're having some success again. You're winning. That's what Jeremy Swainon's done his whole life up until that point. I think it was really good for him mentally. He comes into this season and he's just looked so good. He's like the other American goalies, Hellebuck and Ottinger. He is a reed goalie. He reads the play incredibly well. He's not the most athletic guy. But man, when he,

is predicting where the play is going correctly, he's so hard to score on because he's gigantic and he has phenomenal structure. His butterfly, like every goalie drops into a butterfly when the puck's about to be shot to him. I think Jeremy Swayman's net coverage when he drops into the butterfly is better than any goal in the league. Just the way he holds his hands,

the way his hips are high in the butterfly, his structure, there's nothing to shoot at. So when he's reading the play and can drop into that butterfly before you shoot, there's nothing to shoot at. He has made the save before you, even released the puck. So yeah, he's, he's looked phenomenal. Like you said, it has been rough against Vegas. And then Colorado got a couple on him the other night. So hasn't been perfect, but he's

looked very good. Sounds like you're assuming Swayman's the number three goalie for team USA, but Thatcher Demko is second in the league right now and goals saved above expected, only behind Spencer Knight. Is Thatcher Demko, can he play his way into that conversation? Could he be the number three guy behind Ottinger and Hellebuck? Yeah, I had this conversation with Haley and Sean the other day. And Haley, as a Canadian, was not a big fan of it because the U.S. is ridiculously stacked in it. I mean, we're talking about those three. Hellebuck, Ottinger, and Swainman are amazing. Thatcher Demko clearly belongs in the conversation. We haven't even mentioned Dustin Wolfe or Anthony Stolars, who has looked phenomenal for Toronto.

So, yeah, I mean, tough decisions for Mike Buckley, he's the King's goalie coach, but he's the United States goalie coach going to the Olympics. He's got some really tough decisions because, yes, Demco has looked awesome. He's looked like you mentioned, Max with UC Soros, like looking like the guy that we thought maybe wasn't going to be there anymore. At the beginning of last season, when he was coming back from that injury, there were reports that Thatcher Demko may never play hockey again. If he does, he may never look like the same goalie again. And last year, he didn't look like the same goalie. So there were legitimate concerns like, will we ever see peak Thatcher Demko again? He's not that old, but all these injuries.

And I think at least early in this year, that's the one thing we have seen. Will it last the whole year? Can he stay healthy? we don't know, but what we do know is he's still got it in him. We have seen the, the Thatcher Demcoe that finished runner up to Connor Hellebuck for the Vezna two years ago. He's looked like that guy. He's explosive. The way he goes in and out of his post integrations is what I always bring up with Thatcher Demcoe because it's so impressive. He doesn't open up any holes when he's going down into the RVH, back up, down into the RVH.

Like there's just, it's so smooth and natural. And he makes high danger saves as good as anyone in the league. like those 10 bell back door one-timer. Like the shots that most goalies, you say, well, the goalie had no chance. Demko has a chance on every one of those saves. It's super impressive. And he's, he's been keeping Vancouver. I don't think the Canucks have been overly impressive defensively. They've given up some really bad chances.

But he makes one or two of those saves a game to give you a fighting chance in a game that maybe you shouldn't have a chance in. Love it when you talk about post integrations, whatever the hell that means, Jesse. Well, it's funny because you talk about Demko, Laz. as a guy for the Olympics and could he get into the conversation? Obviously, I think for this Olympics, that that's an interesting conversation to have. But if I'm Team USA, the guy who I would be interested in challenging for that three spot is not Demko. I would want to use that three spot on a guy who I think is going to be on my team in the future.

And I think the more interesting name to talk about with that is Spencer Knight, Jesse. Yeah, yet another awesome American goalie that is playing his butt off early in the season behind a Chicago team. He actually, what's fascinating, like, Igor Shisterkin, to me, has been the best goal in league this year. But by the numbers, Spencer Knight is number one in goals saved above expected. He's facing a lot of expected goals. So he's had plenty of opportunities to save those goals above expected. And he's saving him. I mean, he's, he's looked phenomenal. He's, he's so structured. He's, again, I keep saying it, we're talking about a lot of American goalies. They're so technical. They read the play so well. They're always in the right spots. They have such good structure.

And he doesn't break it. Like when when things break down and there's chaos in front of the or it's a pass to the back door. Spencer Knight doesn't abandon his structure and just dive head first or flop all over the ice. Like he still stays in that same butterfly, hands in front of him stick on the ice. He just slides back and forth. He's calm.

He doesn't overreact and try to reach for things. He just kind of stays, keeps his chest in front of the puck. And behind a bad team, that's a really, really good habit. It's a tough habit to keep behind a bad defensive team. But so far this season, he's looked phenomenal. So the three worst goalies in the league and goals saved above expected are Linus Olmark, Dustin Wolf, and Sam Montaubo. Three guys that are supposed to be, you know, really reliable number one goalie types. Which of those guys concerns you the most right now?

Probably Olmark, I will say I've watched all of Wolf's games. I saw him get lit up here in Vegas, pulled after two periods. Not that was a mercy poll by Huska. That was, we don't want our star goalie to have to go through another 20 minutes of this because there was nothing he could do. I will say, I think Calgary, I've watched San Jose covering the Golden Knights. I've watched San Jose twice and I've watched Calgary once. I think Calgary's worst defensively. I think they might be the worst defensive team in the NHL.

It is horrendous. Now, in their own, in the offensive end, Calgary is dangerous. Like, I don't think they're like the worst team in the league because on the right side of the red line, they're really good. But man, in their own end, it has been rough. So I, I hesitate to put much blame on Dustin Wolf, even though the numbers have not been good this year. I think he's been playing well. They just are giving up so many ridiculous chances that there's not much he can do. Olmark is a little more concerning just because he's getting up there in age. We'll

see if the decline has started. I'm not ready to proclaim that yet, but he has looked a little slow to react to some plays. It's going to be tough for Ottawa to repeat what they did last year. So we'll see. I'm a little, I'm definitely watching Olmark to see if maybe the decline has started a little. To your point on Wolf, like that kind of gets at one of my one lingering questions with goals saved above expected is that I think bad defensive teams are really prone to their goalies ending up at one end or the other of this because the saves that we say or the shots that we say a goalie has no chance on. Expected goals is still giving that as like a 0.4 or a 0.5 expected goals. So you give up two or three goals that we could all sit. hear and agree the goal he had no chance on. He's still getting a negative 1.5 goal saved above expected. And vice versa, the other way. If they do make those three saves, like we're giving him a ton of credit. He's getting the 1.5 and that's how they climbed to the top of this list.

But early in his year, especially, you get two or three games where you just don't make these saves that none of us would actually expect you to make. And it looks like you give a bunch of goals that you shouldn't have given up. That's not really how expected goals works. And it's my one hang up on goals saved above expected, especially in small samples. It is. Yeah. You can get in a hurt real quick with those numbers. For a perfect example, like an anecdote, the other night in Vegas, Dustin Wolf, first shot on goal that he faced of the entire game is Ivan Barbashev steals it from his defenseman behind his net. And he's like panicked. It's a turnover.

He wasn't ready for it. So he goes into his post. And Barbashev doesn't try the wraparound. He just feeds it to Mitch Marner, wide open from point blank at the top of the crease. And he just crushes it into the top of the net. It's like, well, literally no goalie on earth. You could give that play a hundred times and they're never going to stop it. well, there's a negative five goals saved above expected.

And then the second shot of the night he faced was Jack Eichl's coming down on him. He's got a challenge. Ikel passes it over. It's Mark Stone wide open on the back door. He could have scored it with a left-handed stick if you wanted to. And again, that's another negative five goal save above expected. There's nothing he can do on those plays. So, yes, Dustin Wolf, it's going to be interesting because there are so many doubters because of his size.

And like he proved everyone wrong last year. If Calgary's this bad all year and he has bad statistics, I could see the narrative flipping on him quickly and saying, well, we knew he wasn't able. And I will, that will not be me. I am going to give him some grace this year. If that team is as bad as it has looked early, he's going to have bad stats, but I don't think it's going to be on him. Last year over a beer in New York, you told me Bo Nix was the worst quarterback you've ever seen. So I'm glad you're evaluating goalies and not quarterback. Because after what he did to my Giants last night, I think he might be Joe Montana. I still think he's the worst quarterback. I, did you try. watched the first 90% of that game. We couldn't complete a pass, a forward pass. I felt like we were in 1940. But yeah, that last five minutes was fun.

Well, I bet some in fantasy, so I'm pretty mad at Bonix, too. So let's just end the show on that note there. Jesse, thanks as always for joining us. And thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Reminder to follow and subscribe on YouTube. We'll talk to you soon.