The Athletic Hockey Show - Bruce Cassidy wants his name on the Stanley Cup, Calgary Flames implode vs Chicago & is Matthew Tkachuk a Hart Trophy candidate?

Episode Date: April 5, 2023

On the Wednesday roundtable, Rob Pizzo, Jesse Granger and Mike Russo look back on a busy week in the hockey world, as the playoff picture becomes clearer and the regular season winds down. The guys talk about Calgary losing to Chicago in a must win game, the overachieving Nashville Predators and how Florida, led by Matthew Tkachuk have vaulted past Pittsburgh and the NY Islanders in the East wild card race.Bruce Cassidy, the head coach of the Vegas Golden Knights joins Jesse Granger and Michael Russo to discuss how Vegas is 'enjoying the moment', qualifying for the playoffs after missing out last season. Coach Cassidy talks about the Knights winning games with mostly backup and journeyman goaltenders, the loss of Captain Mark Stone to injury, the maturation of Jack Eichel, playoff bound for the first time, and how his Bruins team loss to the St. Louis Blues in the final in 2019, continues to motivate him to get his name on the Stanley Cup.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowLinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at http://LinkedIn.com/nhlshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is The Athletic Hockey Show. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to The Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I'm Rob Bezo from CBC Sports. We're back after a week hiatus. I'm here, as always, with Jesse Granger in Vegas. How are you, Jesse? I'm doing well.

We're getting close to play off hockey. I can almost taste it. Down the stretch. They come. So close. Yeah, and Rousseau in Minnesota. Big smile on his face. He's, you missed us, didn't you?

I did miss it? you guys. Actually, I feel bad. I was in Vegas the other day and didn't even get to go up to Jesse because I was running around doing other stuff. But yeah, I go to Pittsburgh today. And I don't know, there's something about that game. Seems a little stressful for the Penguins. We'll see what happens. We are going to break down all of that because like Jesse said, it's it really is the home stretch now. Every team has six games or less. And certain things are decided and certain things are not. And we're going to look at both conferences as well. Some of the things. things that happened in hockey this week. Do want to mention as well, Bruce Cassidy, Golden Knights head coach. You guys had a chance to speak to him yesterday. We're going to play that tape in the second half. And Jess, you've been pumping his tires a lot this year, just the fact that he just loves talking hockey and he's an easy guy to deal with.

The fact that he was willing to come on on a game day. And maybe, you know, general hockey fans don't necessarily know this, but there are certain people that usually don't speak for 20 minutes, you know, on a specific show on a game day. They may do a, you know, a media availability, a scrum. But goalies and coaches usually don't say, yeah, I'll sit down for 20 minutes and chat with you guys. And he was more than willing. In fact, he suggested it. Not only a game day, but a game day on the second night of a back-to-back with travel.

Like they had played in Minnesota the night before, flown into Nashville late, probably got there at 1, 2 a.m. and he got up in the morning before his game against the National Predators and talked to us. Bruce is the best. He looked tired. I do want to apologize to Jesse for one thing. So right out of the gate, I asked him a goalie question, Rob. And I could see the sadness. Right.

Yeah, right when I was asking the question, I'm like, this was one I probably should have left for Jesse. And I could see the sadness on Jesse's face when I asked the question. But yet I still got through it. But then I felt absolutely like just like for the rest of the day, sad about it. glum about it, that I didn't give Jesse the opportunity to just, uh, just, uh, slobber all over everything that's going on with the fact that this team just has had goalie after goalie after goalie yet keep on what keeps on winning. Yeah, I get to ask Bruce about the goalies literally every day of my life. So he was probably glad that it was somebody else asking. Yeah,

he was probably enough enough, Jesse. I know you planted this question. What did you hit on Jesse's fiance too? Like that's just Jesse's territory. You don't ask a coach of a goal. I know. Please? You're kidding? He does. You know, Bruce does seem like, doesn't, I mean, you know him much better than me, Jesse. I've only gotten to interview him and scrums and things like that. But he just seems so chillax, you know?

Like, I've said it on the show before. He's the only coach that I know that consistently eats in the press room before a game. So it doesn't shock me that he on a game day would be like, yeah, I'll do a podcast. But he just seems like such a chill dude. That's so good for the game that we need more Bruce Cassidy's. We need more guys who just kind of want to talk hockey with a few guys on a podcast. You know what I mean? Like it's just, I know they're busy guys.

I know it's easy for me to say, but I thought that was so cool that you guys got to chat with them. So we'll play that in the second half of the show. But we got to talk about these playoff races, guys. Like I said, every team has six games or less. Four teams in the wildcar races for both the Eastern and Western Conference picked up wins last night. One of the teams that didn't pick up a win, the Calgary Flames, who lost, Again. Who lost again to the Chicago Blackhawks? Calgary now sitting on the outside looking in with 87 points. Just missed a golden opportunity there. Seattle with the first wildcard spot at 94 points. So they've got a bit of a cushion. They won on the road again. Third most road wins in the NHL, Seattle Cracken behind Boston and New Jersey. So they still have the top wildcard spot, followed by Winnipeg at 89 points. But guys, we have to talk about Calgary. This is becoming just an absolute mess. And when you're coming down the stretch,

these must win games, you start looking at schedule and you go, okay, that's a win. Well, that's a win. Lots of win. They're 0 and three against the Chicago Blackhawks. What is going on in Calgary, Russo? Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, it was such a bad loss when I went to go check out their record. I got a virus on my computer. So it was, you know, it actually delayed the podcast for about five minutes as my computer was just going, be. beyond berserk. So it was a bad loss. You know, I think we forget, and this is the one thing I was looking up because I wanted to confirm it, but they had won four in a row right before that and five of the last six. So they've been on a bit of a role here and beaten pretty good teams,

you know, a Vancouver team that's been playing really well lately, a King's team that's been on fire lately as well. So it was definitely a blip in the radar, but as you said, I mean, three losses, 02 and one against the Blackhawks this year. And it's one you just have to have. And now they put themselves in position tonight against the team that's right ahead of them in the standings. It is a must win game in Winnipeg. And, you know, I don't know what's going on in Calgary because regardless of just the one blip in the radar loss here, this is just been, they should not be in this position where they're sputtering all year long where you just don't know what you're getting on a nightly basis, you know, throughout their lineup. And so they are going to have a Winnipeg team that's equally desperate tonight because they don't want to go into a tie with Calgary. And Winnipeg knows if they could beat Calgary.

They've pretty much assured themselves a playoff spot. Although I don't know if anybody is not told these kids in Nashville that they're not supposed to be winning right now. But Nashville's playing really well right now too and beat Vegas last night. But really disappointing loss by the flames. It's funny that the flames are probably the most disappointing team in the NHL. The only team there. That was my next question.

Not to interrupt you. I was going to say, are they the most. disappointing team in the NHL this year. It's the only other team they're competing with is the team they made the trade with, the Florida Panthers. Like that trade just wrecked both these franchises somehow, even though, even though both players went both ways. It's, I mean, yeah, like Mike said, the flames are so inconsistent.

They have games where you watch them and you're like, wow, if that team gets in the playoffs, nobody wants to play that team. And then the very next night they lose to Chicago. it's all like there's inconsistency throughout the lineup there's inconsistency in net Jacob Markstrom I think very highly of he has been bad this season and like not just last night in the lost of Chicago but even the Vancouver game I was watching a few nights ago I think they won yeah they won that game but I think Markstrom gave up four goals on 20 shots like what are we doing here at times they've even sort of benched him for Vladar they played him a little more like

I don't understand how he's falling apart. I don't understand how this team's not better. Everything on paper says this team should be one of the top three teams. I mean, they were the favorite for the Pacific Division going into this season and they're not even close. Yeah. And again, Nashville is kind of that tricky team too with 86 points. And Calgary has played one more game than all three of the other teams were talking about too. And it just, it's so, it's so weird the way they're losing.

I mean, if you look at some of the goals last night, like that, that first goal, the cadre cough up behind the net. Like, are you playing men's league hockey here? Like a one-handed clearing attempt? Like this, you're in a battle for your playoff lives and they're coughing up pucks in their own zone as if it's a scrimmage. I don't know if I don't know what the reason behind it is. If getting yourself over that playoff line is not motivation enough, I don't know what is. But they're just playing ugly hockey at times.

Like, it's a really ugly hockey. Yeah. Yeah, and Huberto, I mean, again, I have no inside knowledge of this, but it sure, it seems like Hubertow and Daryl Sutter are not exactly. I mean, they seem to be oil and water right now. He's not playing in key situations of the game. There's been that, you know, the couple Alan Walsh tweets that have sort of insinuated that things are going on there as well. I'm just, I'm really curious what's going to happen if they missed the playoffs in Calgary this offseason because I've got to think that there's going to be some blowback on what happens here. And, you know, I know I mentioned Nashville before, but Nashville's a team.

that they might be in the driver's seat guys. Like, you know, I know that the record, like if you look at Damien's, Damien Ecriada, he puts out these sheets for a lot of us in the media every day with the conference races. And there's a lot of red on Nashville schedule with playoff teams that they've got to face. But the two last games this season that are against playoff teams are against Minnesota and Colorado, who I've got to think is not going to bring exactly their best lineups to put in that game.

Minnesota might have to play guys like Nyquist and Caprice off. just to get them ready for the playoffs. But everybody else of substance, I think, are going to be out. And Nashville always beats Minnesota there. And I got to think the same thing. Why would Colorado risk anybody in game 82 if they've maybe got even the division wrapped up? So I think Nashville is a team to watch Novak's on fire right now.

It's like the complete antithesis of what's going on in Calgary. The Nashville UC Soros. They literally should have his face on the front of their jerseys and name the team UC Soros because that's the team. that team is you look at their lineup and you're like how in the hell is this team competing for the playoffs and then you see down at the bottom in front of the goal oh UC Soros that's how he has been absolutely brilliant has there been any like announcement on what's going on with Forsberg like I read an early March a report that he was closing in on a return and here we are

on April 5th and I haven't seen anything that said he's out for the year I mean Forsberg just like he hasn't played Roman Yosey hasn't played and all the other good players, they traded away at the deadline. I don't understand how this team is when they literally traded all their good players except for two and those two got hurt. And UC Soros is just doing it by himself back there. David Poil's like, here, we're going to go get badard. No, we're not. Novak just came up and decided to be an absolute superstar right now. Well, real quick, before we moved to the East, speaking of Bedard, we knew certain teams were going to be bad this year. And the Blackhawks were one of them. That's why, you know, was such an important game.

you couldn't believe Calgary play the way they did. But real quick on Chicago, and Jesse, I know you're like me. We like to place a dollar or two on the outcome of a hockey game every now and again. If I told you before the season, I'd circle these eight games on Chicago schedule, Boston, Vegas, Toronto, Colorado, Dallas, and three games against Calgary.

And I said, you need to place a $100 bet on Chicago on every one of these games. And I told you you're eight and no with a profit of $2,551. you would have said I'm absolutely nuts I mean you almost feel like do you know how good Connor Bedard is they're tied right now with Columbus and Anaheim for dead last in the NHL

imagine they just lost those eight games they've got last place locked up and the best chance at Connor Bedard yet they're beating the Bruins and the Golden Knights and the Leaves and the Avalanche and the stars and the flames it's crazy to me freaking hockey man This sport throwing that rubber thing at the net and it bouncing off things,

just crazy stuff happens more than any of the other sports. And idiots like us putting our hard-earned money on what we think that puck is going to do the way it bounces. Over in the East, Panthers won last night in regulation over Buffalo. And with that one little regulation win, they go from outside the playoff spot to that first wild card spot. a leapfrog over the Islanders and Pittsburgh. We're going to start with Jesse because Alex Lyon, 39 same.

This guy won the Calder Cup last year. Low was GAA in the HL last year. Fourth straight win, buck 25 goals against the average during those four wins. $9.59% percentage during those four wins. And I know you were kind of shitting on Florida earlier, but they've kind of, I feel like lately they played out of that funk and have got themselves now in the top spot in the wildcard in a jam-packed playoff race and Pittsburgh now on the outside looking in with Buffalo kind of still saying,

we're around here, but can't see that happening. Your thoughts on on Lions performance and just what we've seen for Florida as of late? Yeah, Lion, not just that one, but his last five games, I think he's five and oh, and he's given up like five total goals during that span. He's been unreal. The Panthers signed Bobrovsky to a bajillion dollar deal. They spent a first round pick on Spencer Knight. And Alex Lyon is the best goalie on the team, leading them into the playoffs. No, it's crazy. And like you said, this team, they were the most disappointing team in the league.

They are definitely fighting their way out of it. And I think that because of how much talents on that team, that's a team that could make some waves in the playoffs if they get things going, especially in net. They have three goalies. They've got to figure out which one they're going to play. It's probably not going to be lying in the playoffs. So I wonder which one is going to end. up there. But it's, yeah, I mean, the Panthers are playing a lot better right now. And it's,

it's definitely helping that they're getting some saves. And there's going to be such motivation this final week of the season to get that seventh hole in the Eastern Conference. So, you know, so, so you don't have to play the Boston Bruins. And not that Carolina is an easy picking at all, but, you know, they are a team without patch ready, without Svetnikov. You know, so I think that the, the path there would be a little bit easier to play Carolina. So it's going to be just really fascinating what happens here with Florida, the Islanders, and Pittsburgh down the stretch. It's a shame the way the savers really, you know, two, three, four weeks ago really just

took a tank because they look like, you know, when I've seen them this season, they've played really, really well. And then obviously hit the skids for a while, now starting to play a little bit better, but bad loss yesterday. Legit question. Is Matthew Kachuk a Hart Trophy runner-up candidate? I'm putting runner up in there because if anyone doesn't put Connor McDavid number one in their ballot. I don't know what you're thinking. Given the fact that he's top five in

scoring, he's another 100-point season, should he be in the conversation to be one of the final three players for the Hart Trophy? If they make the playoffs, you know, definitely. You know, the runner-up of the Hart Trophy, honestly, might be, well, I mean, I'm probably putting Pastor Nack, but I mean, Leon Drys Idol. I mean, my God, this guy, and he's got 31 power play goals, I think 123 points. He's just a tremendous hockey player, 51 goals. But I mean, obviously, if the Panthers make it, Kachuk's had another brilliant year.

But Pasternak, I don't know. You know who's having a really quiet, just great year is Kuturoff again. I mean, you know, topping 100 again, you know, I don't know. I'd probably put Kachuk in the top five, maybe, if Florida makes it. but I wouldn't say runner up. Yeah, I kind of agree with Mike. I don't think he's the runner up. I think probably dry-sidal.

If you want to pick a non-oiler, Linus Olmark, everyone talked about Chesterkin last year. Allmark's numbers are better than Chesterkins were last year. Everyone, like, Schisturkin's season last year was described as a historically great season. And, like, he had 34 goals saved above expected last year. Allmark is at 41.3 right now, which is absolutely insane. It's the highest number in 20 years,

and that's the furthest I could go back and check the goal saved above expected. It may be further than that, but in the last 20 years, no goalie has saved more goals above expected than Olmark has this year for Boston. I know he's behind a really good team, and that's padding those stats. Like you look at even like Jeremy Swayman, I think, is in the top 10 in goals saved above expected. clearly the environment is having an impact on that. But I think if you gave Shasturkin some heart votes last year, I think Allmark deserves it this year. Here's another one.

If Colorado wins a division, where do you put McKinn in the heart race? I mean, this is a guy that's played behind a team that has been ravaged by injuries this year. He's missed some time too. And yet he's averaging one and a half points per game, 100 point season again.

His first, actually, I shouldn't say again, his first one. I was going to say it's his first one. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, there's a lot of really good candidates. So, you know, about three weeks ago, I would have put Caprice off in the conversation as well. Yeah, but it's like Larry Bird in that famous three point contest. You guys are all playing for a second because it's got to be Connor McDavid, 147 points. Four games left.

Jason Robertson, too. There's a lot of good, there's a lot of good candidates. Well, just the numbers that people are putting up in the NHL this year. Like, it's, that's why there are so many candidates because everybody's filling the net with pucks. Yeah, it's these goalies, these goalies just suck. I think. Who needs goalies? Let's never talk about goalies.

Horrible goal tening in the NHL these days. You were talking about Allmark. Got to bring up the fact that the Bruins clinched the president's trophy. The last president's trophy winning team to win the cup, the 2013 Blackhawks. Since then, we've had one president's trophy winning team losing the first round, the lightning in 2019, seven of them in the second round, and one lost in the conference final. Is it officially back to being called the kiss of death? You don't want that president's trophy?

Rousseau. Rob, first of all, I would love you to be my statistician for every article that I ever write because you come up with the greatest nuggets. It's my job. It's so easily. Yeah, I know. And I just, you know, I take the lazy way out on pretty much everything. Boston could be the exceptions to the rule this year.

They are just so good. They, you know, and it's not like they, like, I don't know, the games that I watch, it's not like they're just going out there and dominating every single game, but they just know how to win. They're so deep up and down the lineup. They're getting magnificent goaltending. You know, Linholm is somebody that still is somehow under the radar, at least out here in the West. And, you know, I had no idea after watching him for years playing Anaheim just how absolutely freaking good he is. And he's just tremendous.

And I just love that team from top to bottom. And I can't imagine that they're, first of all, I can't imagine they're going to bow out in the first round. But I got to still think that at the end of the day, they're going to be playing in the top two in the NHL. I like to push back on the narrative of the president's trophy curse because, yes, only one has won it in the last 10 years. But like, they aren't running away with Stanley Cups, but that's not how hockey works. Like the favorite doesn't always win every game. you look at it in the last 17 years, teams to win the cup, no seed has won the cup more than the one seed. Now, the president's trophies, obviously, there are two one seeds. So they're not,

it's not always the president's trophy. But I feel like the one seed wins it a proportionate amount. We just, because when the one seed loses the one time Tampa Bay gets beat by Columbus, or are they losing the second round, it's such a big deal. We make a big deal out of it. I think we overestimate like how like the failures of the president's trophy winner and the one seed because we just expect them to win it every year. But when you actually look at the numbers, I think the one seed's performed just, just fine in hockey for a sport that, as we said earlier, crazy stuff happens. There's so much variance in hockey. Because there are only a couple goals a game in the playoffs, one bad bounce can can change a game, can change a series. I like to push back

on that. I don't think the president's trophy is the curse that some people make it out to be. I do too. I agree with you. I think there's worse things in the world than to be guaranteed home ice advantage throughout the playoffs. But you look at this Boston team, okay, 77 games played, 60 wins. These five remaining games mean absolutely nothing. And that's where I think, like we saw this with Tampa Bay.

I felt like Tampa Bay was trying to, in 2019, trying to break records. They were trying, they were at, it's kind of like in football when the Patriots, we're going for the perfect season. What do you do if you're the Boston Bruins right now? I rest who I can rest. I do I do everything I can to prepare for the playoffs. I don't give a shit if I finish with 65 wins. I don't care. Records are great if they happen, but I'm at this point, I'm worrying about round number one. That's one of the reasons I bring it up because these final five games don't mean anything if you're, you know, if you're out in the first round. Well, if you have to press, especially if you get somebody hurt.

If you have to press for the president's trophy and you're trying to win it, that's not ideal. But when you've got it locked up with five games left, um, they had it locked up with 10 games into the season. They had it locked up in, in January. Yeah. Uh, and again, I think I'd love to go back to all of our prognostications because like, I didn't think the Bruins were going to be this good. I mean, I truly didn't. And I said, I said they'd struggle to make the playoffs. I'm not afraid to bring it up again,

but their record is one of those comical, like video game numbers 60, 12, and 5. The best part of our athletic projections is that they're all anonymous. So then like, you know, and then we do, we always do iteration like 2.0, 3.0, 4.0.

So then you can say, yeah, I've been predicting the Bruins to win the playoffs all year long, you know, or to win the cup all year long. Forgetting the fact that you actually had them 11th or something at the start of the season. One really quick story before we go to break and hear from Bruce Cassidy, guys.

Jonathan Taves returned to the Blackhawks lineup. Seems like we're talking a lot about Chicago in this show. Return the lineup. He's played two games. And after one of them hinted at a possible, it sounded to me, hinted like a bit of a retirement line saying, when you're young, you're playing for a Stanley Cup and everyone's playing through something. That means something. It's worthwhile. But I'm at a point where it feels like damage is being done.

I'm at a point where it feels like more damage is being done than is a good thing. In one line or less, I know that doesn't make sense, but is this the last we're going to see you, Jonathan Taves over this last six games or so? Jesse? Yeah, wouldn't surprise me. Like he said at this point in his career, he's fighting through injuries and this team isn't going anywhere anytime soon. It's not like he's a player that, I mean, he could join a contend. in the off season, I guess, and maybe that makes it a little more worth it. But if he wants to

retire in Chicago, which would totally make sense, it seems like this is the appropriate time. I think just the fact he's playing says this is it. I mean, there's no reason for him to be playing. Right. You know, I get that he's a free agent. I might have to move on. But, you know, probably wants to play in Chicago uniform at the last time. But I think for him to force his way back on the ice is it's for him to intentionally have a swan song, which is sad because he he's still at an age where he should have a lot of game left. And to see what's happened to him, I just wish him good health. You and me both, Bruce. Coming up after the break, Bruce Cassidy, head coach of the Vegas Golden Knights.

And we are joined by our next guest, coach of the Vegas Golden Knights, first in the Pacific Division, first in the Western Conference, after two big wins against the second place team. Thanks for joining us, Bruce. We really appreciate it on a game day. All right. Thanks for having me. this this stretch obviously you guys are playing big time opponents every week or every game and none of the teams around you are losing i'm sure you'd prefer LA or Edmonton to lose a game here now but how how good of preparation do you think this is for the playoffs in terms of not just the opponents you're playing but the fact that because no one around you is losing the pressure is on to to win pretty much every night yeah you know we look at it more i mean the pressure to win is

is to get in the playoffs first, right? And we've accomplished that. So we've gotten through some stretches of adversity. And the pressures to win is once you're in. I think right now this is more, you know, if you're going to have a hiccup, it probably would, you know, need to be once you're in, but not once they've started. So I don't think we look at it as pressure. It's more about enjoying the moment.

We're playing against good teams. What's at stake in two weeks? You know, you have to start your preparation long before that. You just don't show up in the playoffs and expect to get your game in order. So I think our guys understand the value right now, keep building your game. I don't even know if they notice what's going on around us necessarily in the division on a daily basis. They certainly check. I'm the same way.

I'm more worried about our own team. I mean, if a team around us rips off 10, 12 in a row, there's nothing we can do about that. We just sort of control our own environment. So I think we've done a good job with that. I honestly, I think Evanton and L.A. are taking the same approach. like let's just win our games and Vegas stumbles or whoever around them stumbles, then an opportunity to exist to move up. But that's how we're kind of looking at it.

Bruce, you know, the start of the season, Logan Thompson and Aiden Hill got off to such a great start. And Brescois had surgery in the off season with Senta Henderson. And I think a lot of people forgot about him. And here we've seen him lately get off, get some huge points for you. How have you done this with your goaltending this year in a year where you've been, you know, again, ravaged by some injuries, especially in the back where it's most important? Well, it's been out of necessity.

The only time there was a, you know, like Hill and Tomer were going very well, and L.B. was starting to find his rhythm right in Henderson. So that was probably the only time we discussed, should we take a look at LB because of his experience and he's playing well down there, how does that affect our other two guys? And it was a short discussion because we were quite happy with Tom and Hill at the time. So it was more about, you know, LB's just, going to have to be patient, keep working on his game. And sure enough, his opportunity came,

and has come around again. So these things sort of play themselves out. You know, Quick comes into the mix at a good time. Add some good depth for us. The young Petera comes up when we need a breather. So it's kind of fallen into place, probably never, ever, ever, ever scripted this way. But at the end of the day, it always seems like there's a guy ready to take the ball. And our team hasn't changed their style in front of the goaltender, which I think is important. that we've just kept playing and it's worked out. Like I said, not necessarily how you draw it up, but worked out just fine for us. It hasn't just been in net.

There have been injuries all over the place with this team. I know you weren't here last year. I watched this team really struggle and they missed the playoffs with a bunch of injuries. I don't know if you can compare how many injuries have happened this year to last year, but the team has obviously handled it really well this year and your first in the West. What do you think is the biggest thing that's allowed this team to stay atop the division and stay afloat with all the injuries they've suffered. Yeah, well, there has to be some level of comparison

because it's been Mark Stone, your captain again. And it's been the goaltending position last year was Robin and LB, I think. And so at the end of the day, there are some similarities. So maybe the guys learned a bit going through it last year that you got to, you know, you can't let it bother you. I think our, you know, and I think our structure has helped us win games because of using so many different goal tenders, our guys just continue to play the same way

and don't make a lot of adjustments. I think that's helped. And I know Pete has excellent structure. Look at Dallas the way they're going. So I'm not knocking his versus ours. I just think that that has helped us a lot. We've moved different D in, less sold in the second half of the year, a lot of different forwards.

But we've still managed to play our type of game most nights and find ways to win and stay in games. I think that's the key. When you have injuries and you're missing key people, they're difference makers that impact the game. You can't take yourself out of a game. You've got to stay in the game and then hope, not hope, but play the right way and then wait for the opportunity for one of your players to make a play.

And it's been different guys. Like I was asked that question, so many different guys. And again, it's Dorofe of last night. Not a guy you're going to think of, but he's in the opportunity to make a play. He's a good offensive player. So you put these players in a position to make those plays. And we have. So it tells you, A, you have good players and be allowing them to play to their strength and

staying in the game with good team structure and composure, a discipline, all the words you want to use. I think that's what's, you know, sort of been really important for this group. How much could this experience be great for Dorafaf? I mean, obviously, he's making a significant impact now. But for a young kid to play such big minutes in high pressure situations and make the impact that he is. It's got to be just bowed well for the future. Yeah, I think that you see it around the league. You always hear about experience and that matters, obviously, but young legs, young enthusiasm, energy. Those guys can really help drive your team, right? You just need the right

balance. You look at it every year in the playoffs. There's always young guys that come through, right? They just need the opportunity. Not everyone is ready for that to step up, but given the opportunity, some will. And then we've got to find out who, right? So I, I, I don't think you should ever cap off a young player and say, well, he hasn't played in the playoffs. So, you know, we're going to have to, you know, be careful. I think you have to give them opportunity if they've shown in tough environments late in the year, they can do it. And last night was, it was. Minnesota's a tight checking team. They're battling for first place. They got some heaviness to their group. So to me, that's a good barometer of what a playoff hockey game would look like.

And to see a young guy excel on that, that only bodes well for us. Bruce, I remember when you kind of arrived in Vegas in the summer and we asked you about Jack Eichel and he'd never played in the playoffs and you said he's had a lot of individual success, but that doesn't always translate to team success and that was kind of one of the goals. How have you seen his game progress and how excited are you to see him in the playoffs for the first time? Well, it's progressed. You know, for my eye test, right? I wasn't there in Buffalo, but I know here he's been an excellent defensive center. way valuing a 200-foot game. I mean, I think he's our highest plus minus forward, right? So you can argue about that stat all day long, but to me, he cares about defense.

He plays against good players. He's, you know, been really good in our system from day one as a centerman putting out fires in our own hand. He doesn't spend a lot of time there. It tells me, you know, he's making good reads. Offensively, I think his game is very good. Had different line mates a lot this year. So that part of his game is coming.

He'll always make his plays. So I'm excited for Jack. I mean, those guys are the, you know, come playoff time, the big names, those are the ones that oftentimes, um, can impact a series. And oftentimes, Jesse, they can also be neutralized by the other guy's top guys and it becomes your depth that can win you some rounds. So it's different things that happen in the playoffs. But at the end of the day, I know he's, I'm sure he's excited as anybody in the room

to get started simply because, you know, it's his first, he's a first timer. And I think we're all looking forward to see how it plays out because it is a different animal and you have to live it. And I believe he's prepared for it, but we'll see in a few weeks. Bruce, so one guy that has lived it is Barbashev, you know, his big parts of those St. Louis Blues team, the team that won the Stanley Cup, a 60-point guy in St. Louis, and a real crafty trade, you get him. And not only do you get him, you put him right on your first line,

and he's got 13 points in 18 games. What have you seen from him and how excited are you to see what he could bring come post season? Yeah, I mean, he does a little bit of everything. He's really good in small areas, like on the board. boards or in tight areas of getting a puck to the skill people. He gets to the interior ice. He'll score his goals, going to the Nat, top of the blue paint. He's physical, plays on both special teams.

So I think he was a really, really good ad for us, especially when you lose a stone and a will carrier that brings some of those elements for you. I mean, we gave up a really good prospect in Zach Dean. So, I mean, obviously you have to, you know, pay the price to get something good. But I thought it was a real, really great move by criminalist staff to identify him. I thought, you know, he's been an excellent fit for us. And we'll have playoff attributes. And I saw it, St. Louis, a number of years ago.

And he's grown his game since then. So he's been there. He's been in those pressure moments. So that's the other thing. You know, it shouldn't phase him at all. You mentioned this team's ability to kind of stay in games and wait for the moment to take advantage. I mean, it seemed like this team has come back so many times in the third period this year to win games that they were trailing. There isn't one offensive stat, defensive stat that this team.

really stands out in. They're kind of, I mean, they're good in areas, but they're not great in in any real statistic. What do you think it is that like has made this team the best in the Western Conference so far? Well, we stick out in wins, right? And I think that's, that's the important part. Would we like to be better in certain areas, Jesse? Absolutely. We talk about it all the time. We'll have a post game review coming up in about 20 minutes with the group about what we could have done better last night and hopefully work on that. And so it's a never-ending process. And you hope it comes together at the right time. So, you know, for us, I think it's depth, different guys coming in,

seizing the moment. We talked about that with Dorofiav. We, you know, Paul Cotter got hot. Michael O'Madio's got, and we've had different guys other than that, you know, the usual suspects, so to speak, that have stepped up different goal tenders of one for us. So I think it's just that that speaks volumes about the team and how much they're going to play for one another. And when it's their turn, it's their turn.

And we say that a lot, whether it's stepping in to protect a teammate, walk a shot, make a play. You know, it's, you know, that's be ready to seize the moment when it's your turn. And I think we've done a really good job team wide at that. And sometimes these injuries when a guy like Jack is out or Stony or Petro and Theo, some of the goaltenders, it allows other guys to seize those opportunities, right? And, and then excel in them. So they've been through it.

And they know that, yep, I know I got to do my part. And I think that's been the biggest thing that you look at the glass, glass half, half, full type of guy when you have injuries. It allows other players to grow their game. And I think that's what we've done. Bruce, how much you, do you ever look back at your coaching career and just think about, you know, where you've come, where you started? Because, you know, just look and you started in Jacksonville. I don't know if you could talk about what brought you there. But then, you know, to go to Washington, have to take a step back and sort of grind your way back to this point, you know, going to the Stanley Cup final winning of Jack Adams, losing your job, coming to Vegas.

You know, this has been an all-accompassing long coaching career. It means I'm getting old, right? All that happens. You don't look at it. To me. So, yes, there's times you look back. Try not to. You try to, you know, have your head and brain in mind where your feet are.

And I think I try to do that as much as possible. Stay in the moment. But you can't help but reflect. I tell you when that happens, honestly, is when you're on the road sometimes and you run into people you haven't seen in forever. For example, maybe a kid you coached in Jacksonville or Trent and someone reached out to me the other day, one of those stops. And so those are the times I think maybe a look back. But I think that's when you're done.

You're probably, you know, I still think of the 2019 playoffs because I want my name in the Stanley Cup. And that's the one that sticks out and that will come back. And I want to say haunt because that's a strong word. But we reflect on what you could have done better in game seven to win that last game. And it's tough when you went 15 playoff games in a spring and you need 16, right, like that last one. So those are some things to think back. But I think back more moments, guys I've coached that I've run into that are coaching now, I think that makes me feel good, you know, that they've got into the business and they ask you about experiences and that they're looking for knowledge.

I think that kind of is important to me that you've built relationships too with individuals and that have gone into the same, you know, sort of profession you've gone into. So that's how I look at it. A lot of miles, a lot of great memories and they keep getting better, right? I think, you know, you can coach forever and still not have it all figured out. So that's where we're at. You said it. You want your name on the cup. We ask the players all the time how excited they are about the playoffs.

How excited are you? You get into the playoffs. I feel like a seven-game series, the tactics really come into play. Like, how pumped are you for this? You got adjustments and you got to know your team and who can handle what you can change what you can. I think when I was younger, maybe you don't realize how many adjustments are made or sort of the ebb and flow of the series. Like when you win a game, you're on top of the world. When you lose one, you're kind of like it really resets and all the momentum goes to the

other team. The media is like, oh, they're done now. You know, they got to explore, you know what I mean? If there's so much narrative involved, you've got to really stay level headed. And so for me, that's exciting in the playoffs to, you know, best against best type of thing. That's what it usually works out to be the storylines of who steps up. You know, there's always a name or two that you don't expect. So I'm still a fan of the game too, right? So those things I think are important for the game. But I just, like I said, I get excited because, as you said, it's the end prize, right, that everyone wants.

And some of our guys in the room have had that. And now they want it more. You know, I've never had it. I just want it once. Imagine once you have it once, you want it twice, etc. I hear that all the time with the champion. So that's what excites me. I think it's the greatest playoffs in any sport.

That's the other thing. It's grueling. It's long. And when you win it, you know, you've truly paid the price. So like I said, I Stanley Cup playoff hockey since I was basically seven years old, as always sort of got me excited. This year's no different. Great.

We can't wait to watch it. Thanks so much for joining us, Bruce, on the road, on a back-to-back. We really appreciate the time. Okay. Thanks, fellas. Have a good day. Yep. Good luck.

The rest of the way. Okay, big thanks to Bruce Cassidy, head coach of the Vegas Golden Knights for coming on. And like we said, off the top of the show, for him to do that on game day. That's not a regular thing. He just likes talking about it. But so to wait. So we'll have rapid fire after the break. All right, guys, my favorite time of the show.

And yours, Rapid Fire. Topic number one, Brad Marchand was asked about Jordan Bennington, who, of course, has been talked about on this show quite a bit quickly, developed that reputation of being, well, I'm not even going to try to put the word in there. or try to figure out a word to describe Jordan Bittington. But Marciaun said, quote, he makes me look like the good guy, so I love it. I used to be the most hated. I think he's taken that over now, end quote.

I think Marciaun is nuts, but do you agree with his assessment that maybe Jordan Bittington is now the most hated guy in the NHL? Jesse. I think it's hard for a goalie to get the league-wide hate that a guy like Marchand gets, because he's not constantly, like, in physical contact with the other players, right? Like, every guy in the league has been in the corner battling with Marshand and said something to him and, like, like, no what I mean?

Whereas the goalie, like, they're sure, there are for sure guys that hate Bittington. Probably the guy that he hit in the face with a blocker after he scored a goal on him, celebrating. But it's just, it's tough for a goalie to get the league-wide rep that Marchand has. So I'm going to say, while Bittington is totally out of control and someone needs to fight. him. I don't think he's, I don't think he's, he's as hated as Marshand yet. I think it's tough. Flurry would love to fight him. I'll tell you that. I was just shooting the breeze with Flurry the other day and he'd love to fight him. That was not a, that was like, you know, you thought that he was having funnies, he's mic'd up and stuff. He wanted to kick that kid's ass. Yeah,

Marshan's still going to win every single poll from every single player that, you know, and be the most hated guy in the league. But if you put a qualifier as a goaltender, it's, it's Bennington. I actually think that players love facing Bennington right now. He is so easy to unravel. It's ridiculous. I don't know if you guys saw the Ryan Hartman interview that he did on a podcast here with Ryan Carter and John King. But he basically gave the play by play about how he made Bennington unravel. And he went up to Bennington and basically said to him right before, so they wild rally back have this huge comeback. And he goes up to him and he goes to him, hey, you know, stay with it. You're going to be okay. Just stay with it. You know, you'll be.

be a fine, like just saying it like that to him, like he's his own teammate. Bennington immediately loses his mind, starts barking at the wild bench. Hartman comes out for the next shift, goes up to Kelly Sutherland and says, hey, just pay attention to Binnington here. He's going to take a penalty on me because I'm going to the net. He all of a sudden, the wild score on the shift, Hartman decides on the celebration to still go on his path to the net, accidentally trips over his pad, and Bittington loses his mind to get suspended.

Like that's how obvious it was to Hartman that they had this guy unraveled. And that is what St. Louis is going to have to work on in the offseason. I get the guys won them a cup. He needs to be helped this offseason to stop giving opponents an inside track on how to beat him because he is so easy to unravel. It's crazy. It's like a child. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you.

I'm not touching you. Some guys you don't want to get fired up. Like just don't poke the bear type of thing with Bennington. Every single highlight you see of this guy losing his mind, what's the score? He's given up six goals. It happens every single time. Yeah. Rapid Fire topic number two deals with Michael Bunting in a game against Detroit this week, guys,

gets a two-minute minor penalty for embellishment. Later on, he's given a 10-minute misconduct. And Sheldon Keith was asked about it, and he said, quote, surprised. Based on the way he's got officiated as of late, no, I'm not surprised at all. So that's part of it. But Bunce has to do his best to stay on the line. In terms of how he's been officiated, Kyle will deal with that with the league.

Insinuating, of course, he's getting some reputation calls or he's getting some unfair calls because he is. Now, last season, he was near the top of the league and penalties drawn. And this year, we've seen just a sharp drop. He's not drawing as many penalties. I think this is just going to happen.

referees are human and so are players and it's just going to happen. If you're constantly trying to embellish, there's going to be a point where referees start seeing that and adjusting. But do you think guys are getting these reputation calls more often than they should? Russo will start with you on this one.

Not with him. He is the biggest swan diver in the NHL. And if you're going to continually make referees look like fools when they bite, this is what happens. You're not going to get the calls and you're going to get, and you're going to get, you know, you're not going to get the benefit of the doubt,

and you're going to constantly get embellishment calls. And he is, least fans will disagree because they disagree about everything that's true. But he is the biggest diver in the NHL, the biggest one since Alex Burroughs. I don't have as strong of a take on bunting as Michael does, but if clearly, if what Michael is saying is true, I'm totally on board with not giving that guy, penalties because that's the worst thing that can happen to hockey. Maybe not, maybe not the worst, but it's when I watch basketball and I watch soccer, I love both sports, this diving drives me absolutely up a wall. And I'm glad that there's an embellishment penalty in hockey and I wish they'd

call it more. And I think that if you are, if you are known by the players and the refs as a guy who embellishes to get a call here or there, I'm totally okay with your drawn penalties dropping. I was watching, for some reason, I've been watching a ton of NBA lately, and I was watching this game last night and Maxie, like, he's on the baseline, not the baseline, he's basically on the, like the, let's call it the half, half wall since I don't know an NBA lingo. He gets, he gets kind of shoved. Then there's like a break where they don't call the foul.

He looks at the ref, sees there's no foul being called, and then he launches himself into a fan that's sitting courtside and then doesn't get the call and then like goes nuts. And it was, to me, one of the most hysterical flops I think I've ever seen in the NBA. It's embarrassing. Soccer's even worse. It's embarrassing. Keep it out of hockey. Do whatever we can. We must do whatever we can to keep it out of hockey. The one thing I will say to Bunting's defense and all defense, like the defend players that maybe embellish is that it is also incumbent on the referees to call penalties. I think a lot of these guys feel like sometimes they have to embellish, like throw their head back if they get high stick just to get the call. because so many calls are just not called by the officials.

I see it every night with Eric Seneck here. Eric Seneck never dives. He's one of most honest players I've ever seen, and he doesn't draw any penalties because of it. And sometimes I think that, you feel like you almost have to have to, like, flop to get that call to make the referee even once see it or call it. I think it's a mixture of what you both said, and we'll move on in a second. I think it's a fact that they don't want this in hockey.

They don't want to see what we see in soccer. and the flopping in basketball. But it's also what Russo said. You're embarrassing officials by doing it on a consistent basis. You're literally, there's got to be nothing worse for an official. And don't, I know for a fact that they a lot of times have the game on in between, you know, in the intermission, they'll have the game telecast on. And to see penalties that are not even close to penalties.

But this guy's like, you've got to feel for the official saying, this is the fastest game on earth. I get one look at it. And this guy's trying to embarrass me. So I think it's a little bit of both. Rapid fire topic number three, former NHLer Keith Kachuk did an interview on TSN radio this week. And he was asked about his son Matthew Kichuk's Panthers team. Quote, I'm a little disappointed in the Panthers.

They're a soft team and they're getting everything they deserve right now. End quote. I almost feel like I could hear Matthew Kachuk going like, Dad, you're embarrassing me like a little kid. And his dad does something like that. And he kind of alluded to the fact that, you know, Matthew Kachukuk. really disappointed right now. I'm wondering what it's like

with Matthew Kachuk goes in the dressing group after an interview like that comes out. Your thoughts on Mr. Keith Kachuk's comments. Jesse, we'll start with you. Yeah, if I was Matthew, I would go into the room and be like, look, guys, my dad played in a different era.

He thinks every team in the NHL is soft. I mean, to my dad, every team in the NHL right now is soft. And it's probably true. So that would be my get out of jail card on that one. Yeah. Hey, guys, I think my dad had like 10. about lights before that interview.

That's funny. It's funny that this all thing happened because I actually joked with the wild PR guy the other day. I'm filling in for the fan here on Friday and I'm asking for a player and I basically said, tell the player like, it's either him or I'm calling his dad to come on

and I know he'll say yes. So sometimes the fathers, they like to talk. I had one text to me today. I mean, fathers, I always say as a beat writer, the smartest beat writer is the ones get in on the, with the parents, because the parents are always talking. Final topic, guys, the 2023 Frozen 4 is set.

You got number one Minnesota taken on Boston University at 5 p.m. Tomorrow, this kicks off, by the way. And then number two, Quinepiac taking on number three, Michigan in the nightcap at 830. Exactly how you had it drawn up on your bracket, right, Russo? Exactly. Joe Smith and Corey Promen are covering the event for us here at the athletic. Joe is actually doing a really cool story where he's basically embedded with the University of Minnesota fight Golden Gophers, who to me are the favorites.

Obviously, Boston University, it's a team that we don't see a ton here in the Midwest, but it's a classic BU and Minnesota, too, the most storied college programs out there. And then Michigan playing Quintapiac, who is always good. And I think a lot of people are predicting Michigan versus Minnesota in the Frozen Four. Minnesota, to me, is the team to beat. Best line in hockey, best line maybe in the first line, the program with Snuggaroo Cooley and Matthew Nyes. And I know all eyes in Toronto are on Nyes and what he's going to do after this tournament.

We're starting to get steam here in Minnesota that he might come back if they don't win at all. Brock Faber, the day after the gophers either, you know, lose or win the championship is probably going to be a Minnesota wild property. I think a lot of people are interested what's going to happen with Jackson-Lacombe if he beat chess free agency or signs with Anaheim, Johnson with Buffalo as well. I think it's going to be an outstanding tournament. And hopefully everybody reads Joe Smith and Corey Promin's cover. Yeah, it should be a lot of fun. I agree. Minnesota is stacked. I was talking to Jack Eichol in the locker room the other day. He obviously went to BU, and he was reminiscent about their run to the championship game. They lost in the national championship, and he was talking about how big of a fan. He's like, he's like, my girlfriend can't even deal with it. We were like, well, what kind of fan are you? He's like, screaming, jumping up and down to my living room when they won the other day. So he'll be glued to the TV for that one. I'm looking forward to it. It should be, it should be fun. I'm also already.

looking forward to 2026 when Vegas gets to host the Frozen 4. I can't wait. In Minnesota next year. Look at that. The Frozen 4 going on a tour of the athletic hockey show. Yeah, we'll make sure to have a bracket pool all set. And we'll see who's the Frozen 4. What are we working on this week, guys?

Rousseau. I'm heading Pittsburgh today. I actually got the Wilde's final bunch of games here going to Chicago and Nashville as well for one-off trips. Really a bunch of cool plays. playoff previews that I'm working on with Joe Smith as well. And then Sean Gentile and I are doing a really cool story on maybe the Atlanta market of Atlanta getting a team eventually back.

There's, you know, I know it's been a lot of talk and people are kind of poo-pooing it, but there's some steam there as well. And I have got a bunch of playoff stuff coming up. Obviously, Golden Knights have clinched. I'm working on some big features for the opening round of the playoffs. And tomorrow, I have a story, a national story on ski. boot technology and how it has changed the way goalie skates are going to be made and how goalies are playing the position right now. Some really crazy, inventive goalie skates that are

taking over the NHL. I got to talk to a bunch of guys. Andre Vasselowski kind of leading the way in that when the best goalie in the world changes to some weird looking skates with no laces on them, all the other goalies take notice. So it should be a fun story. It'll be out on the athletic tomorrow morning. Tell me you talk to Antiront for the story. Yeah, yeah, I did chat with him. I've chatted with a bunch of it. I mean, like half the league is, is starting to wear these things. So yeah, it should be a fun story. And it's kind of, uh, I think even people that, that don't play hockey or, or aren't like super into the gear like I am, I think it's, I think it's an interesting piece. It should be, uh, I think people like it. No disrespect to Russo or anyone else

at the athletic, but you always blow my mind with your ideas. Like, how the hell you get these ideas for some of your, your, your topics. At this point of the show every week, I'm like, oh my God, you know, Why is your gear smelly? Why are these ski technologies going to make its way into the blue ice? Like it's just, it's crazy. Anyways, we'll be looking out for that. Big thanks for another great show, guys. Want to let everybody know, of course.

To subscribe to The Athletic and we have a YouTube page. You can see what our ugly mugs actually look like. Go to YouTube.com slash the Athletic Hockey Show. The Athletic Hockey Show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes round. I want to thank Bruce Cassidy for coming on. Talking to Jesse and Mike. So for Russo, Jesse, I'm Pizzo, the roundtable returns for the final week of the NHL regular season. Wow, that is just crazy on April 12th.

We'll see you that.