The Athletic Hockey Show - Bruins/Islanders officiating takes center stage, Jack Eichel: a wanted man and Meghan Duggan talks about her new job with the New Jersey Devils.

Episode Date: June 8, 2021

Craig and Sean discuss Bruce Cassidy's frustration over the officiating in the Boston Bruins / NY Islanders series. They guys look at the impact that Kyle Palmieri has had on the Islanders, and if he is the best trade deadline acquisition this season. Custance and Gentille take a look at possible suitors for Jack Eichel, led by Minnesota, Los Angeles, Anaheim and the New York Rangers.Meghan Duggan - US Olympian and current manager of player development for the New Jersey Devils joins the Athletic Hockey Show to talk about her new gig with the Devils, the NHL Draft, pay equity, her time with Team USA and her favorite, most inspirational books that she's read. Plus, Craig and Sean stick tap Gerard Gallant's efforts at the World Hockey Championships, and the series between Vegas and Colorado. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, this is Craig Custins with The Athletic, joined by my good friend, Sean Gentilly, with a jam-packed Tuesday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, The Americans. We have a fantastic interview in the second segment with Megan Duggan, who was recently hired, besides all the incredible things she's done in the women's hockey space. The New Jersey Devils smartly grabbed her, added her to the hockey ops department. and that was a great conversation. We have the Bruins Islanders series heating up. Cole Cawfield moves on. Jack Eichael trade talks have now, you know, we can talk about Jack Eichael forever, but Darren Drager reports yesterday those conversations have begun in earnest.

Sean, how are you? Holy cow. You said it was a super packed Tuesday edition. I feel like every week is just us trying to fit, you. you know, 10 pounds of crap into a five-pound bag. We should... Yeah, that's about right. Next week, the intro is going to be like, yeah, we're kind of light.

Not that good this week. We didn't have that much to talk about. This week on the Tuesday edition. Ooh, we're making up as we go. I mean, that's going to be, if we're doing this in August, that might be August. That might just be like, see you in September, everybody. We're going to have another 57-minute interview with Don Granato. Just read it back.

Enjoy everybody. See you later. So let's start with that Bruins Islanders series. I love it. The entertainment fact, there's so much, the series has been great. It's been fun to watch. I, like, you have the surprise factor that now we sit here and the Islanders are up three to two. And I thought the Bruins to me were kind of that, like, I'm like, okay, I'm going to

anoint them the powerhouse and they're going to move on. And the Islanders are the Islanders and they keep on winning. Let's start with Bruce Cassidy's comments. Let me see, do you have them up? Let me see if I can pull him up. He didn't like the calls. Shocked. He criticized the officiating after the game.

Bruce, yeah. Shocking stuff. Shocking stuff from Cassidy. He didn't like, he wasn't thrilled with a game with where the other team had, you know, 25 minutes on the power play or or whatever was. I think it kind of boils down to something we see really in every series and it's kind of a genius play

by the NHL. I know it's on... Oh wow! I didn't expect you to start with giving credit to the NHL. This is the Galaxy Brain take on it is that you just make the officiating so baffling and infuriating and inconsistent that individual complaints, whether they're from Bruce Cassidy or Barry Trots about face-off stuff or what have you, that the individual complaints don't land, right? Like, it's tough to see the forest for the trees because we just kind of internalize that officiating is terrible

and it's terrible for everyone and it's terrible in every game. So when we get granular and we hear specific complaints from Bruce Cassidy about, you know, third period, third period power play chances or whatever, that we just kind of hand-wave them and say that everybody's kind of swimming in the same pool and don't pay attention to the individual complaints or don't take them as seriously as we otherwise would. So, yeah, I think the league has everyone right where they want us, right? Because everyone's like, it's human nature. You're like, ah, it's just kind of sour grace from Bruce Cassidy because he lost. and we sort of, you know, maybe don't engage with, uh, with a substantive, uh, part of his complaints.

So Cassidy after the game says we're playing a team that has very respected management and coaching staff. Yeah, first of all, here we go. Like, Lou Lamarillo, like you're not going to like, like Lou Lamarillo does whatever he wants, right? Like he's, he's at that space and so you can't, you're not going to win that. This is where they won. This is where a lazier podcast would come up with some kind of mafia, uh, analogy, but not. Not me. So right, you're starting with Lou.

And now you've got Barry Trots, who's, you know, probably, I mean, he's the best coach in the league, right? You can't argue that at the thing at this point. No. He said, but I think they sell the narrative over there that it's more like the New York Saints, not the New York Islanders, that they play hard and they play the right way. I feel we're the same way. And then he went on to talk about the calls.

The best part about it is Barry Trots' reaction who says, I don't know what he means by that. He says, we're one of the least penalized teams in the league this year as if that doesn't feed with Bruce Cassidy's saying. Exactly. It doesn't feed directly into it. I think, all right, first off, props to Barry Trots. Because he is so good when it comes to stuff like this, right? Like, he does not take the bait and we've seen it in many different ways.

We have seen it in person. from many different quadrants of the hockey world, and that dude does not bite. So that's another great example of that. I will say this for him, they're one of the least, whatever, one of the least penalized teams in the league, true.

Because they're the saints. They play hard and they play hard and they play heavy and they stay on the right side of the line and blah, blah. Another fundamental problem with the way coaches approach this, and with the way most officials approach this, is that the best game is an evenly called game

where every team has the same amount of power plays and every team commits the same amount of infractions and no team is dirtier or whatever you want to say than the other one. Right. And I think for the most part, that's what you see from officials is that they're afraid to have one team have six power play opportunities and another team have two. as if every team commits the same amount of, of infractors in a game.

As if one of those teams last night wasn't dominant at even strength versus the other. That is, well, that's the other thing. And that's clearly why I completely understand why Bruce Casti is as pissed as he is. Because you look at these five on five numbers and you're just like, good Lord. How did the team lose this game, right? I mean, on the series too, not just for last game. on the series, they're up towards 60% in shot attempts and they're over 55% in expected goals. They're at 59% in expected goals for and blah, blah, blah.

This has been a five-on-five clinic by the Bruins, but they're still down one game in the series and they still lost last night. And it's because of that Islanders power play. So it's not just that the calls are getting made. It's that the Islanders are converting on chances. And that, my friend, is a prime recipe for a pissed off coach after a game. game. So do we think it's funny because we've now, every few days, there's a version of this, you know, going back to the last round and you saw the blues complaining and you saw

what, like this, this is just a thing. Are we so, like, I was actually surprised we ran a headline on it at the athletics. I'm like another NHL coach complains about the officiating, you know, of course. Do we, are we so used to the complaints that it's not going to have an impact or does Does this card still work as an NHL co? Because you've seen, you know, the coach complains. This is tested through years and years. Then they get all the calls next game.

Is Bruce Cassidy is, is, you think, play the right card here? Do you think, are we like so? Do you think calls are going to be five, two in favor of the Bruins next game? Because I don't, I don't. You don't think so? I think Bruins get every call. Yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be nine nothing. Yeah, right.

Nine nothing. I will say it like the proof is kind of in the pudding like more often than not a coach complains and stuff in the ship is kind of right at next game so you can't blame them for doing it but from a media standpoint I do feel like we kind of tire ourselves out on this like you because it's human nature you can't hammer the same point over and over and over again and I feel like we kind of use that bullet in the last round. all did. We all wrote about it. Everyone wrote about it. In one capacity. And we're exhausted about it. Dom did a deep dive on on on on all that stuff and it and it was great and it was well received and it was

a conversation point for that day. But we also don't want to do this every single day. Like well there's there's there's other there's other parts there's other parts of the playoffs that we want to focus on. And it's like and it's and it's a it's human nature to not just want to lean into the same argument day after day. So whether that makes us, you know, complicit or, or whatever it is, I, I, I, I, I don't know, but I can guarantee you that I don't want to hang up with you and then write another column, you know, complaining about officiating. That's not, that's not how I want to spend my afternoon. And I think a lot of, I think a lot of people are in that same boat. Yeah. Here's, here's, here's my final thought

on it and it's the thought that it's always been if it's I never blame the refs I blend if the nchal wanted to fix this it just takes one call from coli campbell or bill daily or gary betman that says call the game the rules are in place just call the game and you know what I mean like if the league wanted this to be solved it would be solved tomorrow and there's like very obvious points uh or what should be points of emphasis for for them it's not like I don't I don't even I don't expect, I don't expect them to call this like it's a, like it's a November 2nd game. Like, I, I accept that there's different standards as, as the schedule kind of progresses. But like, I don't know, call cross checks. Uh, if someone tries, if someone's trying, if someone's trying,

if someone's trying to dump and chase and, you know, gets, gets hauled down as by a defenseman is as soon as the puck hits the boards, call that. I don't, like, give, give it a try. Call, call interference. Call interference. See if you like it. Maybe it works out. Interference is a big one. Holy cow. Like, I know we're, you know, it's jailhouse rules. Someone said this.

Someone said this on Twitter when I was complaining about it last night, of course. And he was, and he was completely right. Like a big, a big part of it for the Bruins is, is that, is that they're not, they're not calling, they're not calling interference specifically on, on, on dumps and chase. Because you, whatever, you try to get the pucks, but behind defensemen, you get some support from your teammates to chase it down, whatever. But that like the the first man in is is getting is getting hauled down like left and right. So just call the egregious stuff. I think that's what drives people crazy about this is that you're seeing clear as day penalties. Like don't, don't call the tickey tack stuff.

Don't make borderline calls. I think everyone, everyone can, you know, reasonably expect that that's that's not on the books. But my God, the egregious stuff. You know what? What really blew my mind was a was a couple games ago when somebody got called for, cross-checking and Pierre was like, oh, they, like, oh, they, they caught, they caught, they, they caught, they, they caught, and it was, it was a cross-check to the back. It's like, it's, it's, it's the single most obvious penalty you can, you can take is you, is a, a dude's away from the puck and you, and you, and you, and you, and you put your stick across of shoulder blades, right?

Like, if we're getting excited... You're saying that's illegal by the... From, you know, the way I understand it, I know I didn't play the game at a particularly high level, but yeah, I was brought up to believe that you're not supposed to do that. If that's the standard where we're, like, surprised that stuff like that is getting called like something's broken. So at least hit the egregious stuff.

And also try to unlearn the concept that every team commits the same amount of penalties each games, even though ironically we're complaining about a game where one team was penalized more than the other. You know, that that's... Well, because it was the wrong team. I'm not complaining. I just, you know, I'm, I'm here for the spectacle. Yeah, it's the, it's the editorial we.

I think I might have been specifically talking about, about Bruce Cassidy. Because I'm not, because I'm not, me and my, me and me, me and my best friend Bruce Cassidy. Yeah, we, we talked about this. Yeah, I just, just, and it's, and it's an, and it's an old complaint. We could, we could say the exact same thing next week. because nothing's going to change. But everything would be better if they just tweak the knobs a little bit.

That's all we're asking for. It's not much. Here's the thing. Here's the credit to Lou La Marello, who's over here building a team that is successful in this environment. Whereas everyone else is building teams as if we don't expect this is going to happen, maybe. You know what I mean? Yeah. He's like, this is the world we live in.

this is how the game is played. This is how the game is called. I'm going to construct a roster accordingly. This is the business we've chosen. This is the business we've chosen. I got my, I got my cheap, my cheat mafia analogy in there. And it works. And we're all surprised again, hey, look, this is, you know, when we all want it to be

differently and it's not. Yeah. And he's dealing with reality and we're dealing with how we want it to be. where Connor McDavid is still existing and not, you know, with the Winnipeg jet on his back. Who's been their most productive forward in this series? Who are the Islanders? Yeah. Palmeri, right?

American hero, Kyle Palmary. This is a great transition because I wanted to talk about Alpine. I mean, in where is he thriving on the power play, right? Which is where we all kind of expected him to do work. The return came a little bit later than we thought maybe, you know, and you can attribute that to a lot, joining a team midstream, not having a lot of practice time. I think that's something that I personally didn't give enough shift to when we're talking about trade deadline stuff or whatever, but Kyle Polmerie has been the guy we thought that they acquired and he's produced in the ways

that we thought he would produce for them, right? Yes. So was that the best, can we make a ruling right now that that was the best trade deadline acquisition. I mean, if you're, if you wait the playoffs differently. Of course you wait. What, you're going to say, ah, it wasn't great in those last 17 games. I know he's got 15 goals and 15 games in the playoffs, but. They couldn't beat the devils down the stretch. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure how much that matters next to, next to two goals, two goals in a playoff game. I think it kind of remains to be seen. I think, I think we need to see what happens. happens with this with this series because there's because there's potentially two games left and Taylor Halls on the on the other side. Oh yeah. I was going to say. I was like, okay, what's still yeah, Taylor Halls. That's what I mean, that's what I've always said about you is that you're a prisoner of the moment, you know? Oh my gosh. Is that what you've always said about me? Always. That's it. That's the only thing I've always said about you. No, I mean, like I think,

again, I think part of it is because yes, if it, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, If this is who Kyle Palmary is for another round, like, I think it's, I think it's fair to call that the best acquisition of the playoffs. And I think when you juxtapose it with how people were sort of starting to talk about it because he was not productive at five on five, their power play was, you know, basically garbage after they, after they, after after, after, after, after, after Andrews Lee got hurt. I know Oliver Wallstrom was helping stuff, but it was still kind of all over the place and blah, blah, blah. That was their single Achilles heel. Kyle Palmerry, one of the probably 10 best power play guys over the last, over the last five years or whatever. And we didn't see the returns on that all that quickly. But now they're there.

He fits. If Lou ends up winning this trade deadline with Kyle Palmerry, he probably goes back to back. Because was Paso last year? That was last year, right? Or was that two years ago? COVID's messed with my, my, if not, like that, the Peugeot. like he had a great pass on a goal yesterday, a bang, bang play. Like, he's, and I don't know why I'm acting like I'm surprised because he was fun.

Pajot was last year, by the way. Yeah. So you're going back to back winning the deadline potentially if you're Lou Lamarillo. The other, you know, you mentioned Taylor Hall. I'm just sorting, you know, David Savard, you know, by the way, the lightning are over there, continuing to truck on. And you bring up a really good point about, um, they had the huge advantage last year of everything pausing and then working in in uh blake coleman and um barclay goodrow was that

that was the two deals last year gosh it all seems so easy um they got to you know they got practice time they got to ease back into it and so there was this established this and i know we say this every year it just reinforces you if you're making a trade deadline move and you're waiting till the trade deadline to make it you'd better win around you'd better be so sure you're going to win around because oftentimes it takes a round for the guy to get going. You're not going to, a guy's not going to settle in with his family and, and learn a new team and all that in 10 games or 15 games or 20 games.

It takes, it takes, usually at least one playoff round. And oftentimes it's, we've seen it where it doesn't kick into like the conference final or the Stanley Cup final. And you're going, boy,

that would have been an awful trade, how this team not existed. And that was part of the dialogue surrounding Palmaria early too, was that Lou struck. you know, at the beginning of April, right? It was, it was earlier in the month. It was, it was April 12th. It was at April 5th or whatever it was.

Yeah. And people are like, huh, I mean, schedule's pretty condensed. That gets in three or four more games to, to get his feet wet and blah, blah, blah. And now here we are. It's, it's the second round. And, you know, the dude seems to have, seems to have found his footing.

Like, who's, who's to say what that extra 10 days of, of acclamation, you know, kind of, kind of helped him with. Absolutely. I had this conversation last week with Jim, Rutherford who kind of famously would make his move in like October like he would always trade for like Carl Hagelin or something rant like there was always some early Jim Rutherford trade and we're and he's just like that's that's the reason he's he said he would just he said oftentimes I would just make a trade because you had to send a message like

he just didn't like what do you see and like the Hagman trade is a great is a great example of that he was like nope slow got to got to got to figure that out then he goes and gets goes and gets the fastest guy in the league I mean the famous one too from his first season here was somehow finding a way to turn very late period Rob Skidari into Trevor Daly, who was just, you know, a vital, vital part of that. And that was maybe a November of December, that was it, that was, that was in December. That was around the holidays. And that was his big, you know, that was that coupled with firing Mike Johnson and hiring

Mike Sullivan was the beginning of that, of, of, of that run that kind of climaxed in the spring, right? So he identified Trevor Daly in December or whatever as a guy, as a guy he could potentially go out and get and he had an extra three months of, of skating with those guys, but before the deadline. I would like to see if there's, this might be something we throw at Dom, like some sort of percentage of a trade being a success the further away from the trade deadline. Like you almost sit there and go, hey, if this trade happens on the deadline, it's probably not going to work out if it's a rental. It's just, it's too hard. You have to count on winning three rounds. The acclamation process takes too long. It, like, especially, especially this,

I mean, this year's fake, right? Like, this is, this is, this is bizarre just based on a, on a scheduling standpoint, on a deadline standpoint. I mean, it's all, it's all, it's all, it's all crazy, but it also stands the reason it doesn't matter what year you're in, whether, whether the schedule's condensed or what have you, like, having a guy around for, for, for, for, for, for, it's all for more games is is better than not. What were Palmieri's numbers after the first round? Like if they lose to the penguins. Yeah.

Like that's, that trade is, doesn't look great. It's two goals in the regular season and whatever he scored against the penguins. And I'm saying this as, as someone who pick, you know, penguins in five and really,

you know, didn't, it didn't occur to me until after, after game five that, you know, that wasn't, that wasn't going to work out for them. But,

but yeah, and part of that, was because the Palmary acquisition looked like a bust. He wasn't producing at five on five. The power play wasn't any good. And you look at that and say like, okay, this isn't going to work. But yeah, against Pittsburgh, he had two goals in that first game, and then one goal in the clincher.

And in between that, he was at zeroes, right? So, you know, it was a little bit of a mixed bag, but, you know, whatever. they advanced and now and now here he is. He's making Bruce Cassie, lose his mind. Okay. I do want to get to Jack Eichol, but it's worth mentioning the Montreal Canadiens advanced to the next round. They've had the league for the leading games for a long period of time, etc. Darren Drager yesterday tweets out that aside from the ongoing coach search, the NHTel clubs

are calling the Buffalo Sabers with interest in a number of. of players, including Jack Eichol, initial conversations that will increase as we get closer to the draft. So not only, you know, I think we, this isn't surprising and this is, this is, you know, this is, I love this where you can, but, but it at least confirms what we. Yeah, let's, okay, let's, let's, let's, let's start out there, though. Like, what, what about that is, what about that advances, advances the, the Eichol story. And I'm not saying, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not saying it to be a smart ass either. Like, I mean, I think, I think there's something to be said for incremental updates,

and I think that's kind of what it is. It just, it confirms that this is still happening after, yes, after some radio silence on, on both ends. And then, you know, as the offseason for everybody approaches that, you know, this is, this is, this is, this is probably going to happen. Yeah. I, I think the only thing that was somewhat, I don't know, like the, with the Sabres winning the lottery or something, you know, you're still, you know,

you're still waiting for some reconciliation with the sabers and like like something like hey you know now they're going to get owen power and and now jack is uh interested to see what and there's just doesn't that doesn't seem to be happening there's no you know i saw some people saying maybe if they hire david quinn you know like do you do anything to try to win jack back or if you with a coaching hire or anything or you just got to operate as if well what okay so what if you don't Say that you hire David Quinn and it doesn't work out. You're two years farther down the road. No Movement Clause pops up.

We've seen what a catastrophe that is for years and years now. That ties your hands even more, even though, like, let's face it, the number of people who are going to be able to foot the bill for what they're rightfully looking for for Jack Eichel is not particularly, is A, not particularly large and B, dovetail. with the teams that he would accept a deal to in the first place. But still, you don't want to put yourself behind the eight ball there. You know, I don't know that David Quinn is the cure-all for that situation. I mean, we don't, who knows exactly about that relationship other than those two guys,

but he coach them for one year, you know, it's, and it was, you know, it's five, it's five, it's five years ago now or six years ago now or whatever it is. I don't think that, I don't think that's the magic bullet when you're talking about, issues of surgeries and and uh and uh, and, uh, and doctors opinions in management and or mismanagement of injuries. Like, is that, is that something that gets forgotten when you, when you, when you hire a guy that coach him when he was 18? I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sure about that. My, my advice to the saber. So you're, if you're trading them, you can't, I mean,

I, I know, this is going to sound obvious, but you can't do it for even 75 cents. on the dollar. I would use the Colorado Avalanche strategy with Matt Dushain, where Matt Dushain asks out at a time when he was, his, his powers were at his peak. You know, still young, still considers one of the top young forwards in the league, possibly a top line center, whatever. Like, everyone liked Matt Duchin. And Joe Sackick, to his credit, like, that dragged on.

And it would, like, to the point where it was almost on, like, I would have been like, oh, this guy wants out, let's just do it so we all can move on. And Joe Sackick, who, if people want to forget, but like, people didn't think he was a particularly good GM in that moment in time. Like, that's just the reality. He's, he's gotten so much better at so many things over the last, over the last five years, whether it's delegating. Like, like, the way that team's put together from a, from a front office standpoint, too,

with the people that he hired is, it's wild to see how great that organization is running. now versus the narrative that it got kind of stuck to him at that point for sure. 100%. So at that point, he is a guy. So there are some parallels. Like, it's a, Colorado was this young team that couldn't turn the corner and one of its pieces, biggest pieces wanted out. The GM, people weren't sure he was cut out for the job.

I think there's still, like Kevin Adams seems like, I don't know Kevin Adams, but he seems like a great dude. Like he see him, everyone's like, oh, yeah, really good dude. Not sure he can, he's cut out to be an NHL GM. Like, nobody knows for sure. I think there's a lot of parallels and Joe Sackick unequivocally won that trade

like just going away and he was it was clear we're not moving this guy until we're blown away that has to be the Sabres approach here I know Jack Eichael wants out I know it's going to happen eventually but the Sabers have to

and you sit there and go can they win this trade they have to win this trade and they have to win it going away I think having the Rangers and Kings potentially bidding against each other is really, really beneficial because those are, again, those are the teams that it seems like Jack would want to end up on A, which doesn't hurt. Yeah.

And then the war chests of prospects that both of them have, whether it's, whether it's, you know, whatever. I mean, Quentin Bifield pops up in my head, but he's untouchable. Turcotte, whatever, caco, guys like that. I think if you can get if you can turn it into an arms race between L.A. and New York, like maybe maybe you do get that A, that A plus prospect in return. It can't hurt. I think the way the market is set up is really beneficial to the Sabres and into Adams. Is there a wildcard team that you're keeping an eye on in this situation? Because I'm, again, I don't, I'm trying to

think back. I don't think Ottawa was the team. People are saying, yeah, look out for Matt Dushain. It always seems that way. Very rarely does the player end up on the team. Everyone thinks they're going to end up on. I mean, do the wild even count is a wild card choice at this point? I mean, we've heard so much about them from Rousseau and from whoever else that, you know, I don't even think you can, in good conscience, call them a dark horse because they're in. They have the pieces.

They clearly have the desire. Don't underestimate how much Billy Garron would like to go out and add. add a dude like that, right? I mean, he's, he's, he's a fit in a lot of, in a lot of different ways there. So, yeah, I don't know. I like Minnesota is the. Yeah, if we want to call them a dark horse, great. I mean, I know that, you know, six months ago, it was Rangers, Kings and Rangers and Kings and

and now it seems like, and now it seems like there's a third, like a third co-favorit. The other guy is, we always, I love talking Columbus. I don't know if there's, if they have enough assets. I just feel like this is, if I'm just doing it on GM personality and you know they're making calls, it's Brad Trilliving always finds a way into these conversations. And Yarmalkelein seems to always find a way into these conversations. You think Adam would take Patrick Lina for Jack? Can we build around a cool, Merslikens, line eight?

Seth Jones. Seth Jones. Who? Who we decided last week. is good at hockey. He's okay. There's a lot and I'm looking forward to digging in and kind of reporting. My last thought on Ezekiel is to fans that are sitting here coming up with trade offers.

If it doesn't include one of your three best prospects in your who says no scenario, don't like. So one of my, just spares. My buddy, my buddy Greg is a is a psycho savers fan. And he texted me last night, he's down the rabbit hole on HF boards, right? So, so Greg texts me last night at 1132. He says, I need help. That was the, that was the initial text. This is straight off.

There's like a cut and paste job off of HF boards. This is, you know, a trade from the mind of one of the sickest people and, you know, one of the sickest varieties of people in sports, which is the HF board's trade poster. Anaheim gets Jack Eichel, Tris and Jari and Buffalo's 2021 second round pick Penguins get John Gibson and Richard and Rick Carter Kell Sabres get Jake Gensel and the third overall pick which is the Ducks first in 2021 This is the kind of this is the rabbit hole that

Oh my gosh That people have fallen down like right? I can see why the penguins would make that deal Uh huh I don't know I don't know If you're the sabers, you do it for, you get, do it for Gensel and the third basically for, for Eichel. Oh, my goodness. And they have to give up as a second round pick on and on and on. Like, they throw in.

So we have, so we have, I, months, months left of, of this stuff. And yeah, it's, it's one of those things you either love it or hated. But I'm, I'm, I'm excited about the speculation. I'm going to throw John Gibson. I, I think John Gibson is a player of note to watch in this off season. I think that's an interesting one. You have a GM there, Bob Murray, who's probably, he doesn't want to tear it down and re-but, like he wants. But at the same time, you know, John Gibson is, he's aging out of whatever the next cycle of duck success looks like.

And his value is never going to be higher. I think, I think, I know teams have brought him up to me, but if I'm a team looking to add a goalie, that's my. my first phone call. Shout out the Johnny Gibson, Baldwin High School, St. Gabe's grade school, good Pittsburgh boy. Let's bring them, let's bring them home. God, he'd be a good thing. Toronto. How about Toronto? Put them in there. The Gibson, the Gibson Campbell duo that we've all, that we've all waited so long for. Let's make it happen. Let's make it happen. All right. I am thrilled to bring in Megan Duggan, who was recently hired by the New Jersey Devils. I don't.

I don't know if I don't feel like we have to go through Megan's resume. Like I've listened to, you know, introductions that go on for hours with Megan. And if we can get into the gold medals and all the worlds and everything. But, you know, a historic hire by the New Jersey Devils bringing her into the hockey ops, um, hockey ops as the manager of player development. Megan, first of all, thank you for doing this. I know it's chaotic right now. Oh, my pleasure.

Thanks for having me on. It's just great to see you guys. I'm always excited to talk hockey. Oh, same. So I want to start with the job in New Jersey. Can you just give us a little bit of backstory, how it came about? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it really came about pretty organically.

Honestly, it came about through some great conversations with the staff there in New Jersey, with Tom Fitzgerald and Dan McKinnon and Kate Madigan. And, you know, it initially started just kind of getting to know each other. And they wanted to know a little bit about me, my background, and kind of what would excite me about being part of their organization. and did it on the other side. I got to learn a lot about this wonderful organization, you know, where they see their future,

what they're working on, things like that. So, and then the role presented itself, which obviously, as you guys can imagine, I was thrilled and already kind of been hitting the ground running here, and it's been wonderful. They got a great group that I'm happy to be a part of. It is a great group. So, I mean, it's obviously a player development role.

That's something that you've talked about in the past, tell, you know, that's kind of your, that's kind of your bread and butter. That's, that's the role you see yourself in. But for that organization, too, I mean, there's so many, gosh, you, you, you look at that young core, it starts with Hughes, obviously, but there's so many young players just in, in the pipeline, organizationally coming, coming up, coming up there. So it's a fit for you, but it seems like it's a, it's a, it's a mutual fit. It's a fit for the organization, too. Yeah, and I think that's what excites me, you know, almost most about the role, really, is, when you think about what's on the horizon for this

young team and this organization and be a part of something like that, that's exciting. You know, anyone that that's working on something that has so much potential and growth and it's just, it's fun to work in that environment. So I'm certainly excited to, you know, get to work with some of the players and, you know, at all levels of the organization. And that's going to be a huge part of my role. So how was watching the draft lottery now that you had some skin in the game? I imagine that changed everything. Yeah, it was pretty fun. I found myself oddly nervous.

And normally I just throw it on every year. I'm like, oh, this is fun to watch, you know. And I had it like the time circled on the TV reminder set. Like couldn't wait to tune in. So I had a bunch of my family members all watching and already cheering for New Jersey. So it was, yeah, no, it was fun. And obviously, you know, so that's a huge part of the game and a huge part of the development side. So it's, yeah, excited to see kind of where that takes us.

Will you be part of the prospect evaluation? Like as, as, you know, they're talking to people, I'm sure they're far down this path. But like, how much of a handle are you having that in terms of the draft?

Yeah, I mean, I'm still getting like a handle on, on everything right now. I'm just, you know, I'm just taking an information. I'm still meeting people.

I'm still building relationships, understanding all the different layers of this team and what's important to them and, and all those different things. So I'm, I'm, I'm ready to, to help out wherever they need me. But right now, I'm really just, you know, like I said, getting to know everything, understanding the lay of the land, and really getting to know all the players that are in the system right now. So what, what does that, what does that acclamation process look like?

Have you been, have you been calling people? Like, do you just, are you just, do you just work off a list and be like, all right, time to talk to this guy, time to talk to this guy? Like, that could, that could take a while. Yeah. Yeah. for sure. A lot of great meetings, obviously, with the staff and, you know, personally reaching out to different members of our staff and a lot of different areas and connecting with them or what they're working on and where we can work together,

as well as watching a lot of video, trying to understand that, you know, who are these players this last season, guys at the world championships, prospects, things like that. And, you know, certainly understanding, you know, what some of our coaches see in these players, but also, you know, what do I think? What do I see? Like, how am I viewing this player through video and understanding kind of who they are and who they can be so that I can help and add value into their development plan? Someone once said about you, wherever she goes, she wins.

And I, which is true. That's played out that way. I got some losses in my belt, too. We don't talk about those. I'm sure you never hear about those at the house either. No way. No, no rugby here at all. Oh, my gosh.

And, you know, I think part of that is your leadership as a player and that's on and off the ice. And I'm curious how you now transfer that over now when it's purely as a development role. You know, how can you impact winning from your role now? Like, what's been your approach to say, okay, this is my expectation. Like, I expect a win. Yeah, great question. I mean, I think, I guess what I'm learning, too, is no matter what your role is specifically obviously in an NHL organization,

everyone wants to win, right? The business wants to win, the team wants to win. Like, every, there's so many pieces to the puzzle, and that's what's so exciting. I've always loved being a part of a team,

whether it was like being a player on a team, everyone bringing a different aspect and working towards a common goal, and now playing a piece in the puzzle of, you know, whatever piece that is. But ultimately, you know, the New Jersey Devils organization, like all teams,

want to get to the playoffs and want to win a Stanley Cup. That's the end goal for, every team in this league. And, you know, playing whatever part and whatever I'm called upon to do to help the team get to that end goal, that's so exciting to me. And, you know, I'm going to work as hard as I can in every area and wherever I'm called with that. That's the end goal of every NHL team, right? And so I'm going to work with that goal in mind and how I complete the tasks that I'm enough to do. Some of the that always interests me about about these kind of jobs is balancing the organizational goals with individual player development. And I think, I think, I think, I think Don

Granato actually talked a lot about that, where yes, the goal is to, you know, you have whatever, you're trying to win a cup, you're trying to want a gold medal, whatever it might be, but also, like individualized sort of plans for, for maximizing, you know, individual players is a big part of it too. And the balance between that, between those organizational goals and between your, goals for individual players in the developmental, you know, kind of role. That's, that, that balance fascinates me. So I was wondering if that was something, you know, how much, how much, you know, that's something you've thought about already, I'm, I'm sure. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I thought about that as being, even in my career, being a leader on a team and, you know,

how we each individually need to develop to be the best version of ourselves and, you know, to help our team get to that goal. So I guess, yeah, I mean, like I said, I'm still learning the layers of this organization and understanding it. But I think, you know, that's a huge part of it, right? Like all of us as individuals, whatever we're working towards, if we're working as a group, you know, we need to find what makes us the best version of ourselves so that we can contribute to that end goal, you know? And there's there's highs and lows of each person and each player's development and some, you know, will come hard out of the gates and then have to take a step back and stuff like that. So it's just, I think just learning all that, monitoring that,

having patience, like, you know, I had to have patience throughout my career as a leader, wanting younger players to buy in faster or whatever. But it's a journey. It's a process. And I think those are some of the things that I learned from my career that I hope to bring into this role. And talking about leadership, I've heard you described as a natural born leader. And I feel like sometimes that takes away from the work that goes into it, right? Like, it doesn't just, you don't just wake up in your leader. What, what, how did you? How did you? What did you do to develop into a leader? What was your process like?

Such a good question because I definitely, I think when I was younger, just my personality thrusts me into a lot of leadership roles. Like I'm outgoing, I'm competitive. And I think as a young kid, you know, those types of players on teams just just rose as leaders because they were the ones that just, you know, the work ethic or the, you know, communication, those pieces came a little bit natural to me. But as I evolved, you know, once I got into college or on the national team being one of those leaders, I certainly had to learn a lot and, you know, develop and grow and ask questions and find mentors that I could

take things from or things that I would say, oh, actually I didn't like that. So definitely a process. And up until, you know, leading the team to the gold medal in 2018, like my leadership evolved and was challenged and I had really highs and really low lows. It can be a lonely job sometimes. It can be certainly a difficult one. But I think the biggest thing for me and I guess even in some of the lowest moments in my leadership, what was consistent for me was I always continue to try to evolve, try to learn, try to ask questions, read a ton of different books.

You know, the captain class was one of my favorites. and yeah, in low moments, I was like, okay, how can I get better, you know, or even in high moments when things were going well and teams are winning championships. I was still thinking like, okay, how am I going to manage this as a leader? And it wasn't always easy. My leadership was challenged a ton, but I think that's something that I'm definitely proud of that I tried to continue to learn and evolve as generations change and new players come in and I change as a person.

So I'm hoping to continue to do that in the next. role that I'm in with New Jersey is, you know, continue to expand my intelligence, right? And try to be a better leader or a person or coworker, colleague, however I can through educating myself. Was there a specific point, like, in your playing career where you did kind of like internalize the idea of yourself as a leader? And that's when you start, like, picking out different books or just really making it part of the process, you know, part of the growth. You know, part of the growth. process where that was like an actual kind of baked in part of your identity where you realized it was something you had to improve. Yeah, I think probably a lot of growth happened

like after my first Olympics in Vancouver. I was a young kid on that team, obviously. I was my first Olympics and we didn't come home with the result that we wanted. I certainly knew I was young in my career. I was going to go for another one. Had to go back to Wisconsin and play my senior season. And I came back into a team that my first three years there, I had played in three national championship games, one, two out of three of them. The program was, you know, super successful. In that Olympic year, it was just an off year for the team and the program, you know, Mark Johnson was our coach and he came with us to the Olympics. There was a handful of players had, from the previous teams had graduated or were, you know, centralized with Team USA, myself and Hillary Knight and some of those

guys. So we came back and the team was a little, you know, fragmented kind of off course a little bit. And here we were, you know, this is like my senior season. I'm ready to go, like go after a national championship here. But I had to make a quick transition going from, I was just a young kid for the last year on the Olympic team kind of, you know, just showing up and doing my business. And now I need to pick this team up and lead us to a national championship. And that was a huge period of transformation for me and from a leadership perspective. And I had great, you know, great people to work with. And obviously Hillary was there and a lot of other teammates that, you know, had the same feelings about the group and where we could go. And so I dove into

my leadership that year big time. And, you know, learned a lot and grew in those areas. And again, was challenged a million times. But the team ended up having a ton of success. And we went on to win the national championship that year as well. And it was one of the greatest teams from a personality standpoint and a cohesiveness that I've ever been a part of. And I think that was the work of a lot of just great leaders challenging each other to be better each day. So it was a really good group, but certainly a transformational time in my career. Can you just feel it with a group when you're like, okay, we have something special here? Like you just know it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it's not that, you know, I think what's so crazy about team sports and especially hockey is it's not guaranteed, though, to stay that way.

You know, like that team, like we were feeling it, but we had to work at it all year to keep that level of culture and identity rolling, right? And then there's teams that I've been on that it just feels like the wheels are falling off. And you can, the best part is is you can work on it to get you back on track. It's not like, you know, there's lots of ebbs and flows, which is cool. And there's always work that has to be done to keep the team kind of at that level. Yeah. I mean, if you can sense when a team has it, then it stands the reason that you can kind of sense when it doesn't. There's something missing.

So what do you do when that happens? You're like, oh, there's this, we're missing something here. Like, what's next? Yeah. I mean, it kind of depends on the level of severity of, what you're missing. I've been a part of teams where it's just off by a little bit, right? And you need you know, you need a good kind of team meeting, reshake, you know, hash some things out in the locker room. And then I've been a part of teams, you know, again, like we come up short in 2014

in heartbreaking fashion, lose the gold medal, we gave it away. And that period from 2014 to 2018 was a complete transformation and rebranding and rediscovery and a lot of hard work on and off the ice and in every area that it takes to be a competing athlete. So it kind of, like I said, depends on the severity of where you're at. But yeah, I mean, like I said, I've learned a lot along the way of kind of how to hopefully identify and then move forward in a positive manner. But it hasn't always been easy for sure. I think that stretch, you talk about that for your window.

The 2017, the boycott, you know, the negotiations, then winning, like all the pressure you guys put on yourselves in that world's and then the Olympic like that's going to go down like people are only going to appreciate that more is as time goes on like that was not only the fight you guys like taking on the fight but then I think what people don't realize is the target you put on your backs then you already were trying to win a gold but now it's like you had to like you had to win the gold yeah um yeah I can't even imagine that that pressure yeah it was intense It was a lot of, it was pressure, but when I think back to that time period and kind of just, as you just said it, like the all-encompassing, you know, the boycott, the worlds that year in the Olympics, it was pressure, but it was like, it was such a privilege to have that pressure, to feel that. And we were just like, we're going to bet on ourselves.

You know, we just kept saying, like, I remember even in some of our negotiations, like obviously not going to get into the details, but we, you know, just saying, listen, if. we don't do this, then don't, then, then we won't even need it. We won't even ask for it. Like we're saying we're going to do this and we're guaranteeing that. We're betting on ourselves right now. And if we don't, then everything's out the window. Like, those were the types of, that's, that's what I'm so proud of our team because we were saying like, we will, we are going to win a gold medal. So let's, let's all work together and figure out like how we can best do this as a group. And that's what was so exciting.

And, you know, the pressure was huge, but we bet on ourselves. And it was a privilege to be in that situation because, you know, there was so much, I think, just potential to change our sport, to change mindsets, attitudes, you know, futures of young kids. And we just rode that wave. How concerned should we be that all the work you guys put in, now here it is June 7th, and I don't think there's a deal done now on that front. And, you know, I'm not following it on a day to day, and I'm sure, I don't know how much,

but like, it doesn't, I don't think that's great. I mean, yeah, I'm not going to get into the specifics. I'm, I'm so proud of the women. Yes. I know what they do, how hard these last couple years have been for them with COVID and the World Championship cancellations. and what they do for that program in our sport. So I know that it's, you know, something great is going to come out of it.

And I'm excited to see kind of how they continue to push it forward. One of the things you've said in the past is you're always going to be a champion for marginalized people. Right now, right now in this day and age in the hockey space, what does that look like? Like where do you think the biggest fight is? Well, I mean, it's been, I represent a lot of different groups. Yes, yeah, yes. This is the intersectionality example, example right here, yes. Yeah, and I think, you know, it's been such a wonderful experience for me this past, I don't know, six, ten months or so.

I don't even know what month it is right now, but to be a part of like the NHL player inclusion committee. Yes. And working on making hockey a safer, more. inclusive space for anyone, anyone that wants to be a part of it, regardless of, you know, everything, sexual orientation, race, gender, religion, whatever it is, right? Ten years ago, that's just, it's not the case, right? There's a lot of people that don't feel safe in hockey. And so for me, I've been fortunate that hockey's always felt like a safe space for me.

It's always welcomed me. I've been myself since day one. I've been, you know, we have our gender. disputes, obviously, in regards to some of the pay equity stuff. But playing the game, being welcome in an arena, I've always felt safe and I've always loved it. And it's changed my life, right? It's been my life and maybe who I am, the sport has. And so I want that for everyone.

I want that for everyone that looks like me, that identifies like me, you know, anyone that loves hockey. And so that's, that will continue to be a goal of mine. I do feel that, you know, the NHL as the, you know, say the alpha dog in the elite hockey world has evolved and continues to evolve in how they are working towards these things. You know, you see just this past summer, the NHL being really active in their response to some of the major racial injustices that we've seen and how they up some of that. So it's a process. It's an evolution. But I think as, you know, our pro sports teams and leagues and organizations, start to lead in that manner, I think it really helps and it has a trickle-down effect.

And it's, you know, we love sports in this country, right? And people idolize those organizations. So to send out positive messages and to have the athletes and the teams on board continuing to participate in inclusivity is really important. What did the work with the inclusivity panel look like? because I know a lot of us heard that it was enacted and we saw that you were involved and the PKK was involved and all these people. But from the inside, what was that work like on a day to day or week to week?

Yeah, it was great. Hours of meetings and conversations, discussion online, offline, you know, diving into history of how we've responded or certain situations that have happened and making recommendations for how we, and when I say we, I was obviously working with the national hockey league, but how we can be better moving forward in a lot of these areas. And it was really eye-opening. I personally forged some fantastic relationships out of it

with those that were on my group. And yeah, it was wonderful. And I think we are already starting to see some of the fruits of the labor and we're only going to continue to as more recommendations are presented to the executives at the league and strategy and plan around how to roll them while it comes into play. All right. Last question.

I'm looking at all these books behind you. I'm trying to listen to you, but also I'm like always obsessed with what people have. Which if you had to pick one. Oh, yeah. Plug some books. Hey, I think I've got it right next to me. I was. Yeah, Jocelyn.

Can I just say, look, we can both hold this up and and it's a great read. I know you didn't want to get into the details, but I loved about that book because they dove into some of the detail. And like just this, you know, even just the scene of the other side of the table. It's just a bunch of white men looking, you know, it was, it was really jarring. But that's a great. And we're talking, this is a video. So people listening, we're talking about Dare to Make History, which is a fantastic book.

Is that your recommendation off your shelf there? That's definitely my top recommendation off my shelf. I love those two. And, you know, we went through the trenches together. Yeah. With all of the things that we talked about. So the utmost respect for them and proud of them for writing that book. And then let me see if I can find another.

Oh, this is my other favorite one right here. This is a, so this is Grit by Angela Duckworth. That's good, really good. Which is a great book that is, I've read a bunch of times. But again, just kind of, well, you can see I get all my notes in here. Yeah. Yeah, just, you know, it's a great development and growth book. one of my favorites and the title kind of speaks for itself.

You've got to have grit. Yeah. What does grit look like? Yeah, a lot of good ones. I can't get it back in the show up. So I'm just going to put it. But my wife's a big reader as well. So we have, we have, and we love like in hand book.

I've tried the Kindle. I've tried all of that. I can't do it. So we go, you know, we go on a vacation. Like we went on our honeymoon. We had a whole suitcase packed. It's full of books. It was just, and I'm like, if we just brought a Kindle,

that would make it way easier. I can pick out Catch 22 on the bottom row there. That's about it. Touch 22 is a good one. The film notebook was really good. I like that. Yeah, Shudog. Yeah, that was great.

That was good. I actually read that shortly after visiting Nike out in Oregon when we went out there before the centralization year started. So the timing of it was great too. Awesome. Well, Megan, thanks for doing this. Congratulations on the new opportunity. And I'm sure if history is any indication, the winning is going to follow. So I look forward to seeing what happens in Jersey. Yeah, thanks, guys. Yeah, great chat. And thanks for having me on.

We'll have it back for a solely bookshelf related. Yeah, we just go through one by one. That'll be it. Perfect. Sounds good. All right. Thanks, Megan. Thanks, guys. See you later. Have a good one. That was great. We've been, Jeff and I have been talking about having Megan on various podcasts. for a while and that's that was good I could talk about the books like really it took all of my self-control not to have question number three say can we go through each shelf one by one I mean what we picked out catch-22 and shoe dog those are those are two of my favorite books so yeah it was

it was great and yeah so that was that was awesome I'm glad we were able to do that game five of abs golden nights is tonight and I am still taking aback by how incorrect I was after game two of the series. I thought it was, I thought that was Vegas blowing their best shot. You know, they outplayed Colorado really across the board and kind of got goalied by Gru Bauer there.

I thought, I thought that was them blowing it. It certainly was not. The series is tied to two, they've won the last two games. They have a chance to go up tonight. And it's not just that they won Craig. It's how,

it's how much they've dominated, man. You look at, and this is not just the last two games either. This is series wide. They're controlling shot attempts, 59% to 41 against Colorado, which is remarkable. Expected goals, percentages is almost 70 to 30, which is remarkable. This is a good, by the way, this is that against,

no. This is a good Colorado. No, it speaks to how great the performance by Vegas has been over the last, over the last couple games, right? I mean, this is, this did not happen to Colorado during the regular season. They had their little skid whenever Gruberauer was out, but when, when he was healthy, they were, you know, in terms of, in terms of process and results were pretty much unimpeachable. I was not expecting, you know, even going back to game one of the series for them to have a four game, for them to have a four game streak like this. So, you know, you've seen,

you've seen McKinnon and rantan and the stars kind of go dry over the, the last couple games, you've seen Flurry, you know, kind of stand on his head. It's easy to focus on that sort of stuff, but the process just overall at five on five has been really great for Vegas. And I was just, I was not expecting it. So I'm a dummy for writing them off after two games. I feel like, I feel like a lot of people were in the same boat. I'm just glad, I'm glad to have another, another tight series. And I'm glad to see Vegas Colorado kind of living up to the expectations we had for it coming into it. Right. That was, that was, that was, like the marquee kind of series that everyone was hoping would go the distance and it didn't look

like it was going to happen for a little bit but now man it's it's it's a blast i forget did you let me switch my cup pick from Vegas to colorado last week or did you make me stick with Vegas I did not but i will i will stand by my you are not you are now permitted to switch back to color no no no no I'm going to oh my goodness they look they look good no man crazy I wanted to I don't want to belabored, spent too much time talking about the worlds, because, you know, who really cares about that tournament? I didn't pay attention over the weekend. And pretty much anything could have happened in that.

I mean, who knows? I think the Americans got a medal for sure. But, Gerard Glant, again, a good showing by this guy, Jarglaunt, who, you know, for whatever reason, it hasn't been hired since the Vegas Golden Knights made their change there. I think Seattle does a lot of things right, and I think they're going to get here eventually. But this is such a slam dunk, easy layup for Ron Francis and the Seattle Cracken to go out and hire Draglan as the first ever coach of the expansion Seattle Cracken. And they should probably just go ahead and do it before some other team. Bring this guy in.

he clearly understands how to take a group of players from all over, cobbled together by an expansion draft and have success. Like what, who, like, who else? There's one person in the world that can say he knows what Seattle's going through right now and how to make it successful. The other thing, the other thing that Vegas should do. This is my thought. This is my closing thought. I know. I know.

I just, it's important for me to say this. The other thing that Vegas should do is try to plant DelTalon as a GM somewhere, because that was the other major major factor there. So in our company Slack, someone raised a question in the NHL channel, hey, can I get a list of all the moves that were made in an effort to prevent Vegas from taking good players? And so every, you know, all the beat writers said, yeah, this Anaheim, Shea Theodore, and here was this other one.

In Florida did this. And there was not a single good move that a GM made to prevent Vegas. Like, there was one who were like, hey, good work. You kept them from taking, like, the names of the players that people that these GMs are trying to protect. Do not do it. Don't do it, GMs. Let Seattle take whoever they're going to take and deal with your loss. Don't try to outsmart anybody here because it's not going to work out.

Keep Shea Theater on your roster if you can. That's what I'm saying. Good call. But ultimately what I'm saying is Seattle hire a drug lot. Just it's all that. there, it's all lined up. This was just a, whatever happened in the world's, um, is just another reminder of, of, this is a guy that, that seems to connect with his players, clearly. Um, and it, there's a perfect opportunity here to mesh it all. All right. Sean, before we wrap up, let's,

let's, let's plug a couple of the other podcasts. Um, even though, you know, this is, the, the, the American edition of this, the hockey show, the athletic hockey show is, is, is must listen on two day. Hopefully, I thank everybody for making this success. I do want to point out that our best friend Max Baltman and Corey Pranman are now doing the Friday prospect series. And it's a good listen. And it's the prospect stuff as a draft closes in. We're, you know, it's going to be a month out before we know it. That's going to be even more mandatory listen. And we have some, we have a draft order. We have, we have a lot to talk about there. So that's on Fridays. Scott and Pierre or on Wednesdays. Haley, Ian Mendez, Sean McIndo, they do, they do a great job the rest

of the week. So make sure you're listening to that. I think a, I think a feud might be brewing with Haley and Ian, by the way. With us? I think so. I've heard their, I've heard, I've heard, I've heard their tone in their, in their promos over the last couple weeks. I think they got beef. And we, and we, we may have to engage. You never. know. Are they just mad that we showed up and we won the ratings for last week? I think they're mad about the Advocator interview. That's what did it, that we landed that one. It's a big get. Yes. So thank you for listening on Tuesdays. But do give the other days of the week a try. Just dabble. You don't have to listen to the whole episode. It's great. The other thing, Sean, were you able to

find the comment section on the athletic app? I did. I did. After much searching. I'm apparently too stupid to find the comment section on the episode, on the episode page. But I, we love it, man. We love seeing that sort of stuff. We love seeing, God, I know it's, it's so lame and boring to ask for, to ask for ratings and reviews on the, on the Apple page, but we read all of those and we love, and we love seeing them. So thanks for everybody who left them. And thanks for everybody who's, who's thinking about leaving them in the future. And I just want to address the commenter who seemed really frustrated with our take on the Columbus Blue Jackets in the Seth Jones situation last week. That one's on you, buddy.

It's only because I did a throwaway Big Ten comment at the end saying for the first time in the last. That's because I felt like we did address it with nuance and understanding of the situation in Columbus. I like Columbus. I think it's a, I think they, they, they're in a tough. situation. I don't think we just did the typical like, uh, everybody hates Columbus. Everyone hates a city. Shout out to Columbus is a city. The arena district is great. Shout out to short north. I enjoy it there. Come on. Unlike Craig. So, oh my gosh. So to that person, I think, I just want to defend ourselves. We like Columbus. I don't feel like we were the typical like let's breeze by and

just run the city down. I think, I think you can figure out a way to win. I thought we came up with a good formula to win. Go back and listen last week. If you even said that up. episode. The other person I want to talk to right now specifically in terms of feedback is the person that made the Kyle, didn't like Sean's Kyle Connor crack about, hey, McDavid's out of the playoffs. Enjoy Kyle Connor everybody. Um, as very, very very serious there too. Congratulations. I think I thought I thought it was unnecessary because Kyle Connor is, I think he grew up like 10 minutes from where I'm sitting right now. I thought it was unnecessary shot at Kyle Connor, who's a great player. I will enjoy Kyle.

I won't actually. He's out. I do enjoy Kyle Conner so that I think he's better than Connor McDavid. So there we go. So the point is we see the feedback. We take it off very personally, probably too personally. And we like to interact. Lastly, if you want to leave a comment or read any of our coverage at The Athletic

and you're not a subscriber, I do want to encourage you to go to theathletic.com slash hockey show and you can get in at $3.99 a month. That way you can leave comments that we can try to defend ourselves on our podcast posts. Sean is now taking our interviews every single week. I'm going to commit them to this and putting them as a Q&A. He will with the Megan Dugging because she was great. He's awesome. Donnie Granado was great.

And all of our coverage, there's so much good stuff coming around the draft and pre-agency and off-season stuff on top of what you'd expect in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Go to theathletic.com slash hockey show and get in at 390. a month. Sean, great show, my friend. Thank you, everyone, for listening.