The Athletic Hockey Show - Buffalo Sabres fire Ralph Krueger, trade speculation on Hall, Ekholm and Rakell and Steve Levy of ESPN drops by.

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

Pierre and Scott dissect the Buffalo Sabres morning announcement, relieving Ralph Krueger and Steve Smith of their coaching duties, while elevating Don Granato to the interim head coach in Buffalo. The guys discuss the work ahead for GM Kevyn Adams, the future of Taylor Hall and Jack Eichel in Buffalo and what other pieces could get moved before the deadline.Scott and Pierre also take a look at some of the trade chips that teams like Toronto, the Islanders, Winnipeg, Philadelphia and more have interest in, including Matthias Ekholm Rickard Rakell, Nick Foligno and more.Steve Levy stops by the Two Man Advantage edition of the Athletic Hockey Show to discuss ESPN's excitement on welcoming back NHL coverage to their network, working with Barry Melrose and he even gives Pierre some advice on his Dallas Cowboys. All this and another round of questions answered by Pierre and Scott on 'Ask the Dorks'. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, everybody. Scott Burnside here for another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, Two Man Advantage, Pierre Lebrun in Toronto. Every week, it seems we catch the crest of breaking news here on Two Man Advantage. And our show today is no different, as we will discuss the dismissal of Ralph Kruger, the head coach of the Buffalo Sabres, just literally a couple of hours ago. We're going to be joined by one of our favorites, Pierre. for you here. The Voice of Monday Night Football, Steve Levy of ESPN. We're going to talk the return of hockey to ESPN and what that means to Steve and our palberry Melrose maybe.

We'll take some questions. We're going to talk some other stuff. There's lots of stuff going on. But let's start with the Buffalo Sabres. I know you were on and asked a question of Buffalo GM, Kevin Adams, as he did a virtual media call this morning to announce that Ralph Kruger and Steve Smith, assistant coach had been relieved of their duties and that Don Granato will be the interim head coach. He was on the staff already, but he will be the interim head coach. But, man, very, very hard times in Buffalo and it seemed to me to be inevitable. But I wonder what you thought when you heard the news that Ralph was gone. Oh, what did I think? Well, I guess the owners couldn't fire themselves, right? So, yeah, no, it's true.

No, I mean, we've talked about the Sabres so many times. I feel like I'm going to be repeating myself. Like this is clearly more than a coaching issue. First of all, Rob Pugger, one of the most amazing people that I've ever come across in all my years. A fascinating guy, his outlook on life, his life experience, just an incredibly interesting guy. And that doesn't change for me, even though clearly his time in Buffalo didn't produce the results. And so, you know, that's what happens here. He really, I think, had lost any ability to turn this around.

So I think it's the right decision to make a coaching change. It doesn't change the way I feel about him. And, of course, this is so much broader than the coach. I mean, does it really matter who coaches a team for the rest of the year? There are much bigger questions here that loom or getting this franchise back on track. Number one for me is giving Kevin Adams some help, right? It's a rookie GM. It's a thin front office.

Now, he did say on that media call that he's looking to hire an assistant GM. So hopefully that can be someone with experience. But honestly, I think they need to bring in a president of hockey operations, which is something I think that the Pagulas have never endorsed. But, you know, I'll just mention this name because I just happen to be talking to him yesterday. Yeah, Jim Rutherford. I mean, is sitting there as a free agent. While you'll be a free agent at the end of the year when his deal with Pittsburgh runs out.

if you're Terry and Kim Bugula, how do you not pick up the phone and think about that? Because I think that, A, Jim Rutherford has a relationship with Kevin Adams, right? From the Carolina days. And how could he not be a great benefit to Kevin Adams and helping develop Kevin Adams as a GM? So, I mean, listen, I can go on forever, but this is way more about, there's more going on here than coaching when it comes to trying to fix the Sabres. Yeah, to me, it is, and first of all, let me say this. I'm really pleased for Don Granato. You know, he's part of the one of the great hockey families in hockey, the Granado family.

And has paid his dues. He's coached at the National Team Development Program. He was an assistant in Chicago with Joel Quenville. he's coached at all kinds of levels. He's a guy. I don't, I'm really curious to see what happens. And I'm with you,

right? Like the ship has sailed for that Sabre's team. Honestly, it's just, you're watching the play and it, you know, use term, whatever you like train wreck.

It's a crater or a tire fire. And every single night, they find a way to lose a hockey game. And they have good players on that team, but they don't look like it. Right? They have players who don't look like good hockey players right now. But I think it's going to be interesting to see what Don Granano does because I'm not sure anyone you can say right now, well, they need this kind of coach to come in.

You know, I think Bruce Boudreau would be, I think he'd be a great fit there. I think he could do wonders with that kind of lineup because we've seen him do, you know, make dramatic turnarounds with rosters throughout his coaching history. But I'm really curious to see how Don Granato makes out in the short term because I think he could open some people's eyes here. So we'll have to see. But boy, there are a lot of players who should be doing a lot of soul searching. And if they haven't already, like it's not pretty. So Bujo would be on my list too. I mean, I think his winning percentage everywhere he goes.

You know, you can question whether or not you think Bruce Bujo can get you over the hump to a Stanley Cup. Now, I think he can, but obviously he hasn't done it. So my point is you can question that part of it. But what he can do for Buffalo's come in and knew what he's done, which is get teams to play six center hockey. And so, but Gerald Gallant for me

would be an excellent choice, of course, because everywhere Galant goes, the players go through a wall for him. And that might be literally what we're not seeing right now with the Buffalo Sabres. So I'd be picking up the phone

and talking to Galan as well. But we'll see. I mean, you know, Kevin Adams may want to go to the college route. You may want to look at younger candidates. I mean, I think personally that would be a mistake.

I mean, I think that, you know, they keep hiring and experienced NHL coaches there. And I think that, you know, this is the time to bring in a veteran hand in my mind. Yeah. You asked a question and I think it's interesting because it allows us to segue

right into the trade deadline. Now less than four weeks away. I don't care what happens at the trade deadline. I don't care whether maybe there are no trades or maybe there's like four fourth liners ago. I love to talk about it. And I know our listeners do, and it's an exciting time, even though these are unusual times. But you asked about Taylor Hall.

And I'm fascinating. He doesn't have to go anywhere if he doesn't want to, right? He's got the full no move. Full NMC, yeah. Full no move. Yeah. So he's not going anywhere unless he wants to. I have to say, and maybe there won't be a fit.

He's making $8 million, so the savers likely have to eat some of that or take some salary back, whatever it is. I'm curious because if I'm Taylor Hall, don't you want to go? So don't you want to go and play somewhere else? Like don't you want a taste of the playoffs if you have an opportunity? I just, to me, that's, again, it's easy for me to say. But to me, it seems like an almost a no-brainer that he, he will be, he should be, there should be a fit somewhere for him. Yeah.

So there's a lot to decipher there. That's why I asked Kevin Adams about it on the call because, number one, both sides, both Taylor Hall's camp, Taylor Hall, him. and Kevin Adams, I've said since the beginning and repeatedly that there was mutual interest and maybe going down the path of an extension. So that's number one. So part of what I wanted to try and find out today, and obviously Kevin Adams isn't going to open up the playbook to us, but is that even still on the table? Like at this point, given the train wreck of this season, can you even think about that?

And he didn't totally close the door on it, but his response was. a little different than it was a few months ago where it's like, yes, you know, mutual interest and trying to see what's there. His response today was, well, we're open-minded to a lot of different things. To me, reading between the lines, that probably means we're going to have to have a conversation about whether he wants to get dealt. That's what I decipher. But then you've got to find out from Taylor Hall if he wants to get dealt or just finish the year and figure out what's going on. No question, if he is dealt, he's got to become a $4 million player, not a an $8 million player.

Like the savers have to eat half. Or also he's literally cannot move that salary in the league where there's 17, 18 teams in LTIR. So that's certainly important. And then there's some interesting possibilities. I mean, you know, the New York Islanders made news on this day, Lou La Merello confirming that Andrew Lee is out for the season, out for the seasons in totality. I mean, he'd surgery at his ACL and said that he would, you know, be aggressive at the deadline now to go find a scoring.

winger. So, you know, would Taylor Hall make sense? Or Kyle Palmieri or look at all the other rental players because I think it would probably have to be a rental for the Islanders, given their other cap issues. And what's fascinating to me about that, as I tweeted, is that it may end up being now that Lula Morello and his old pal, Kyle Dubas, actually overlap on some of the same targets with the Leafs GM also confirming this week that, you know, most of their trade conversations internally have been at the forward position. And so, and he also said that a rental would probably make more sense for them, again, because of the flat cap moving forward and so on. So kind of a nice spicy little side story there that

maybe the Leeson Islanders are in on some of the same players. Well, to me, what's fascinating about Taylor Hall, and I agree with you, I think the Islanders, I'm fascinated to see what Lou Lamarola does. That team is so good. I know they lost to Washington last night. And there was a very brief flip flop atop the East division with the caps moving ahead. But the Islanders are loaded. They are the real deal. For sure.

It's almost like talking about, you know, Barkoff in Florida where it's way beyond, you know, under the radar. If you don't know how good the Islanders are, then you're not really paying attention because they're that good. But especially with Andrewsley out and, you know, missing the captain, his net front presence, such a, I had him on my shadow US Olympic team. And if I'm the GM of the US Olympic, to me, he's, he has to be on that roster. He's so important. But you have to, you have to, you have to fill that void in some way. And we saw last year at the trade deadline that Louan Lamello is not going to be shy. And so I'm fascinated to see, yes, does. Taylor Hall fit, but also think about, you know, there's a guy former Hart Trophy winner who's going to go back to market unless he ends up re-upping in Buffalo.

But if he hits the market again, he has two goals in 28 games thus far for the Buffalo Sabres. What better way to rewrite your narrative and going into the marketplace, even with a flat cap, than going someplace and having a dynamic playoff performance. And actually the Islanders would be an interesting fit given his history. history with Jordan Everly, you know, from their Edmonton days. Yeah, from Edmonton days, yes. So, yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

And by the way, I've been high on the Islanders from the get-go, so this isn't a bandwagon thing. In fact, I'd like to bring up both a terrible prediction of mine and a good one. And when I picked that East Division, which is so much quality, easily the best division in the game this year, I picked the Flyers to win the division, and now I'm looking like an idiot for that. But I picked the Islanders to finish second. And so ahead of Boston, ahead of Washington, ahead of Pittsburgh.

Those Islanders sold me easily sold me finally by the end of last year. Barry Trots, I mean, he should be an automatic Jack Adams nominee every year. They should just put it in there and not even have a vote. Barry Trots and two other guys every year. But yeah, they're structure and they're not boring. Like I hate people say, oh, the Islanders are boring. they're not boring. I mean, they pounce on turnovers, they force you into turnovers, great structure. I mean, I got tons of credit, tons of respect for Matthew Barzal, who I'm sure there are days where he's like, oh, boy, if I was playing in, you know, if I was playing in Edmonton or Toronto or, you know, maybe Tampa, I'd be piling up the points in a different way.

But he's really bought into their system on Long Island and has become such a responsible player in my mind. And so it has sacrificed some offense for him, but he's still putting up the points. You know, maybe not to the level where he could on the team that wouldn't be having, you know, the same kind of two-way game. So, although, you know, Tampa was a bad example because they're all about the two-way game. But you know what I mean? Like, he has bought into what they are there with the Islanders. And, you know, I root for them. You know, I hope the Islanders go out and replace Anders Lee and go on a deep run.

Yeah. No, it's going to be fascinating because you're right. It does create now a level, you know, I mean, Kyle Dubus, the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs and his media pre-deadline media availability, you know, basically pushing the chips in. And I don't think it was a surprise to anyone that, you know, this is a great opportunity for a very good Toronto team, even though they've gone a little bit sideways in the last week to 10 days. And, of course, in Toronto, that means, you know, you go from. you know, from planning a parade route to deep, dark despair. That's the nature of the leap fan. But it does create some interesting dynamic with the Islanders now in the mix for, you know, a top six slash top nine, impact forward, you know, like Andrew Lee.

So that's interesting. And the other thing I want to touch on before we go to a break and then come back with Steve Levy, I thought it was interesting. You mentioned Jim Rutherford. You talked to him about repeating as a lot. Stanley Cup champion because, of course, he was the GM of the Penguins when they went back to back in 16 and 17. And you raised the idea of the Tampa Bay Lightning, who as you and I are speaking today, playing at a 750 clip tied in points, tied overall, the points and points percentage in the central one point ahead, Carolina. So there's Tampa and Florida tied Carolina one point back. What a great division. were you surprised that Jim Rutherford was seen kind of bullish that the bolts had the goods to

go back to back. No, and he really meant it. Like, like he is genuinely buying in on the Tampa Bay Lightning. And, you know, I don't know that you can feel that way about every cup champion of the last, you know,

15 plus years in the cap era. I mean, when the penguins did this on the Jim Rutherford, it's the lead of my story. But I honestly thought no one would ever do it. it again. I just, it's so hard, you lose players, the mental and physical fatigue, the quick turnaround, the fact that frankly, every year, there's almost no difference between six to ten teams at the top. I just, I remember thinking that night when the Penguins won that second

cup against Nashville, that's it. We've seen our only repeat winners probably for the rest of our careers unless they change the cap system. And now I feel differently because I think Tampa can do it. And listen, a lot of it is subjective in what you read into, but Jim Rutherford is seeing the same things I see, which makes me feel good because he actually knows what he's talking about. But that hunger is there. You know, the thing about wanting to win again is you have to remember the sacrifices that it takes to do that again.

It's not fun. I mean, it really, to want to go through it and pay the price, I'm not going to name teams, but I'm telling you there have been Cup champions in the Cap era where I'm like no chance to repeat. And it's not, listen, it doesn't take away from what they accomplished, but it's like they're still in that glow from last year. They're not going through a wall this year again. It's just, you know, you can disagree with me, but there's a couple of teams that I felt that way right away about. And I'm not seeing that at all with the lightning. They have a legit chance to go back to back, which would be.

which would be an unbelievable fee. Yeah. And what's so interesting, and it allows the segue into a really interesting part of this NHL season as we head down the stretch. And it's going to be fascinating to see how teams respond and how the league responds. But of course, we had got news and had visual evidence, Nikita Kucherov recovering from hip surgery that has cost him the first half of the season. And I know Julian Breezebaugh, the Tampa GM, reiterating that he's on schedule to return in time for the playoffs. But of course.

Maybe not the start of the playoffs, though. It's hard to, the timeline is tricky with those surgeries, but they certainly hope. But the playoffs. And I guess what the distinction is, and this is why, and it didn't take long on social media for fans to, you know, to be up in arms. And I'm sure that there are NHL executives who are. making sure that the NHL is is doing its due diligence that, you know, because the lightning were in such dreadful cap space issues before Kuturoff's surgery and he was put on LTIR, that it is a juggling, it's a juggling situation for a lot of NHL GMs.

And you mentioned the number of teams that are, that have players on long-term injury. And we saw Vladimir Teresenko come back from shoulder surgery and the blues had, and unfortunately for them, they've got a whole, you know, laundry list of guys who were hurt. And so they were able to make the cap situation work. No way that Tampa makes it work if Kuturoff was, say, available to play at the beginning of May before the end of the regular season. Well, they'd have to physically drop other players. And by the way, they would. like the notion that the lightning would actually hold his return back is ridiculous like it doesn't it's not fantasy land okay not only would you have the NHL breathing down your neck but how do you

think the NHL PA would feel about one other a heart trophy winner being told he can't play even though he's healthy like really yes come on people like honest to goodness I mean and I get it it all comes from the from the Patrick Kane 2015 playoffs You know, could Patrick Cain have maybe played a week before he did? I don't know. I mean, no one's ever going to say. But if the difference was a weak, big deal. Like, honest to goodness.

Like, you know, and so I think we need to get over this conspiracy theory with Kuturov. He has a long road ahead in his recovery. Right. And the NHL, I mean, the bottom line is the NHL is not, they're not sitting there going well, I guess, well, you know, we'll check in in, you know, April 14th or whenever the playoffs actually get started and see if he's okay. The NHL, there's a mechanism that could prevent if there was some sort of fudging up, it could jeopardize Kuturah's ability to play in the playoffs.

Correct. Yeah, I tweeted that over the weekend. It's not like you just do what you want. I mean, if the league actually had proof and believe that Kutrov was being, a healthy Kutrov was being held for the playoffs, it would actually jeopardize their. their ability to address him at all this year. Yeah, exactly. Let's please turn the page on that.

Yeah, all right. All right. I can sense you're getting mad. Okay, I don't want you boiling over before we get to Steve Levy. All right. I'm going to open the door to you. Is there anything else before we take a break and come back with our good pal, Steve Levy? Anything else?

What else is on your mind? Lots of stuff going on. You know, you've got, what? You've got Mattias Atcom. whose name continues to be out there, possible trade target. Yeah, I feel like the predators are, they're on this long road trip, right?

I think so I think they're going to get through this road trip and then come home next week and then start to look at what they need to do. So they might start making noise at some point in here before the end of March. So that's certainly a team to watch. I think the Anaheim ducks are fascinating to me. Really disappointing year, not that they obviously thought they were going to make the playoffs, but disappointing here in terms of, you know, where they are in the standings, I think for them, quite frankly, it's as long as their young players are developing, which I think for the most part they are.

But, you know, let's see what Bob Marita is, a GM there. I mean, I think he's listening on a lot of players. I've talked to other teams around the league who've been checking in on Anaheim, so they have the potential of being a real disturber ahead of – you notice I dropped one of the words there. I had the April 12th trade deadline. You know, the name for me that, I mean, the player that I would want, it would be Ricard Raquel if I'm a contender. Now, he's not a rental, so he would cost more. He's got a year and a half left on his deal.

Frankly, I love the fit in Toronto hockey-wise. The problem with it, and Caldubis talked about it, you know, in a normal year, Caldubis would prefer that fit because he, you know, he's traded for guys with a year and a half left on their deals, right? He did it with Jake Muzzin a couple years ago and did him, Jack Campbell. But the flat cap has made things really difficult on teams like the Leafs, and it might be the rental route makes more sense. We'll see, although it didn't close the door.

But Raquel and a contender, he's a terrific two-way player. You can play them up and down your lineup. But it's going to take, I mean, the ducks aren't shopping him. So it's going to take you to sort of really, I think, push the door down on Anaheim to get to pry him out of there. And it's going to take a young player that can, I think, step into the Ducks lineup plus probably at first, I think, to get him out of Anheim. Oh, before we go, because we talked about, it was a week ago that we were talking about

Darrell Sutter, you know, jumping into the way, way back machine and returning to become the head coach of the Calgary Flames. And so now it's so, like I have this image now of the L.A. Kings back in, I think it would have been already into 2012 when Darryl Sutter took over that team during that 1112 season. And, you know, the flames, I'm just, I'm a bit baffled by it. But in three games, there are three and O since Daryl Sutter jumps behind the bench, And already they look like a completely different team. And I don't know.

I don't know whether you're surprised by it. And you've been watching. Well, you know I'm not. You know I'm not because I was a big fan of that hire. And Darryl, I mean, there may be a shelf life to how long as a player it works. But, you know, maybe it's three years. And just so happens he signed a three-year deal. But Darryl Sutter.

gets the max out of his players. That's just his track record. Look at his winning percentage. And, you know, is it going to be a long-lasting effect? You know, will the flames come back and disappoint again in two weeks from now?

Who knows? But, man, he's got players that were looking like they were lost, absolutely locked into what their assignment is right now. And, you know, I watched all three games pretty attentively. The win over Edmonton the other night and the two wins over Montreal. all. It was very little free ice for the Oilers and Habs. Very little free ice to dance around.

It's just so Sutter-esque. And it's just a great story. I mean, it's, you know, and if you're not one of those players pulling on the same rope boy in Calgary, you'll find out. I can tell you that. Well, I got to tell you, to me, and I know you wrote about it this week, and I love, you know, I know there are four divisions, but The emergence almost immediately of this Flames team under Darrell Sutter completely changes the complexion of the North Division for me. And we've seen Vancouver start to slowly get back. I'm not sure. Kind of. I mean, Demko is carrying them, I think. For sure.

Yeah. Right. But. Yeah, it really, I think we'll come down to the two Alberta teams of Montreal, hashing it out for two spots, I think. Yeah, I'm with you. I think Winnipeg slides in, in fact, they, They've really put the pressure on the leaves.

So let's let's give, let's put the jets in the leaves in that one, two or two one spot. But you're right. Now all of a sudden you've got two spots open and all of a sudden the flames have, you know, they, they have made things very, very interesting. And it's going to mean that one very good team with a lot of expectations and a lot of talent is not going to make it. It's going to be, I think it's going to be great theater, great drama down the stretch. Agreed. All right. All right, my friend, as promised, I've been so excited.

I won't lie. I didn't log on at like midnight last night, but pretty darn close. I was getting, I was so excited that Steve Levy, good friend to the podcast, the voice of Monday night football, and a man who has long carried a torch at ESPN for NHL hockey, hockey of any kind, but NHL hockey. is joining us as promised. Steve, the very first question I have off the top, since the announcement of the $2.8 billion television deal that will bring NHL hockey back to ESPN, are all staff required to wear an NHL jersey every day, or is it just every other day? What's the deal on that? Specifically, Hartford-Waler paraphernalia as well.

It can't just be any sweater or hat. It's got to be the home club, the home team. So good to be with you guys. Very excited to rejoin you two gentlemen and obviously ecstatic about the news that came last week. Yeah, well, let's get. I'm going to jump in on here because he's going to do it. Cutting me off. Right away.

It's just like having dinner. It's just like I remember this. I've seen this play before, yes. No, so I want to know, take us, walk us through. Like, did you have an inkling? You can share it, right? Yeah, yeah. We're not off the record because, of course, we're recording it.

But did you have an inkling? And what's it like on campus when news breaks that the NHL is coming back? Wait, you're recording this? Wait a second. I did not read the fine print. I have all my 17 attorneys look at this first. No. So, you know, listen, we had heard, we had heard inklings.

We had heard things were looking good. But I wasn't going to be fooled by that because we had heard in past years. I don't know if it was 2010 or 2011. you know, that we were in good shape as well. And, you know, the executives at the time who have since turned over at our place, like they didn't offer, they don't owe me any explanation. I'm an employee like everybody else. But, you know, I kept hearing a things are looking good.

And every time we, you know, outbid NBC, they had the right to match, you know. So as high as we would go, they would just, you know, come on top. I don't know, buy a dollar or whatever it was. And the NHL would, you know, would take the dough. And I get that. So we'd heard so much, so much positive, right, in the past. I didn't want to get my hopes up and be fooled again. But this, this chatter was really loud and really positive.

And in the end, it became clear that it was really going to happen. And so, you know, you get hung up in the days. I don't know if it was last Thursday or whatever it was, but a week ago or so. And when it finally became official, when I fully believed it, and that's when I saw Gary Bettman and our president, Jimmy Petaro, on the same screen. And I really, guys, you know, I wasn't moved to tears, okay? I'm not much of a crier.

Well, there are some sappy movies I watch with my kids, but I was, you know, sort of flush with emotion. I really was. It was a real, a real warmth sort of took over. And the nostalgia came back. And then, you know, hearing from so many hockey people, honestly, I probably got 100, you know, phone calls and text. and you guys among them, obviously, and I appreciated that, you know, just with best wishes

and all that and how happy they were. I think you guys are happy for the league, too, that, you know, ESPN's a good place and good for the sport. And listen, the majority, not you too, but the majority of the calls were, hey, you know, can you hire me? And, of course, you know, I don't get the hire. I'm trying to get myself in the booth at ESPN as well. So, but it was nice to hear from so many people, you know, the hockey club, as you guys

know, it is a loyal, a loyal, a loyal. party and to consider yourself a hockey guy or a hockey gal or a hockey person, you know, it has always been a sort of a badge of honor for me. And it was just, it was just really nice, really warm to hear from so many people. And it's not that far away. We're talking about October. So that's, that's really cool on so many levels. Well, and for all our hockey listeners, you know, are used to seeing you on Sports Center on Monday Night Football. By the way, loved your call on Monday Night Football this year, Steve. You know how big an NFL fan I And yes, I do.

And I sent you a text, yeah, after the year. I thought you guys knocked it out of the park. Appreciate it. But for hockey fans listening, it really is, you are so passionate about our sport. And, you know, really being dogged about appearing at the Stanley Cup final every year with Barry Melrose and keeping your street going all until the pandemic. I think said a lot about that passion that you have for the NHL, Steve. And how important was that for you during the darkness, let's call it, with hockey off air from ESPN, to continue to at least once a year to have that?

Because I'm sure at times your bosses were like, we could use you somewhere else. But you made a point every year of showing up at the final. Absolutely. That streak was very important. And I'll be honest with you guys. You know, in this era of cost cutting and saving every dollar possible. And again, even prior to the pandemic, we sort of got some hints to, hey, maybe this year we won't go.

Let's see what the matchup is for the Stanley Cup final. Maybe we won't travel. But I think in the end, and nobody has ever confirmed this for me, but I think in the end, our bosses realized that one day we want to get back into the NHL in terms of rights and carry the live games, we need to show our continued support. and while Commissioner Bettman did not name Barry and myself, he did say, he did say during that press conference

that ESPN has always made it, you know, a point to show up at the Stanley Cup final on our big events and we want more and blah, blah, blah. So, so that was great. Listen, you guys know me, but you also know the behind-the-scenes people from your not long enough stay

as far as I'm concerned that ESPN. It is the passion from inside the building. And I mean the kids, and I say that with all due respect, the young people in the building who love the game, are camera people, or audio people. There is tremendous passion on the side of the television screen that people don't see. And I'm really happy for those people, too.

People have been jumping over themselves and trying to, you know, again, not on camera, not on microphone. I've been jumping over themselves, try to get, you know, into the email, inboxes of our bosses try to have a piece of this upcoming package, however it may look. So the place is thrilled. I'm obviously over the moon. And like you said, you know how I feel about the sport and the excellence.

And the people who play it and run it and are behind the game. So how many years? How many finals in a row, you and Barry Mulrose? So it's tricky because you can't really do years because, you know, we missed a year. Stoppage, right? 2005, right, which was, I think 2004 was our last year carrying the games. So I guess, you know, since 94, we've missed two, and neither were of, you know, our own doing kind of thing. So it's hard to say consecutive.

And, you know, because 90, I got the SPN in August and 93. So, and Barry was still coaching the Kings. Yeah. I think in that, in that fall of 94. And he was obviously in the Stanley Cup final in 93. So he always jokes, his streak is one year longer than mine. He's actually coaching him. So, and you know, because, I mean, the three of us and when Barry, you know, with Barry, the four of us and often, you know, other members of the crew, we spent a lot of time together during, well, just a lot of time together over the years.

And I never get tired of the stories. And honestly, I think there's a book, you and Barry, just in your Stanley Cup final adventure. Is there one that is suitable for sharing in this forum when you think about your long history of being with Barry at the Stanley Cup final? In a word, no. No, it is not. Because listen, the best stories, you know, for the most part happen away from the rink, you know. Listen, I do remember the triple overtime, all the overtime games, right? I remember being at the floor of the old decrepit Miami Arena.

I don't know where you guys stand on the loudness of that building. I thought that was top five volumes of any NHL building I've ever been in. Good cause. The roar of that old place and seeing, you recruit in the overtime there. The overtime in Buffalo in game six, we walked out of the building at like 3.45 in the morning on our way to the ESPN rap party and got called back into the building because all of a sudden, Good Morning America wanted in.

So we had to tape a piece for Good Morning America. You know, they're not paying a lot of attention to hockey, but on this night with, you know, breadhol's foot, beating the crease and the controversy and the length of it. So we wound up leaving the building, you know, 4.30 in the morning. We missed the ESPN rap party. But so many great stories of traveling and, you know, the, you know, Calgary, Tampa. right, Edmonton, Carolina, like those crazy series with the travel and the double connections and just places that were hard to get and sitting next to each other up front on the plane

and just laughing. What's the trailer park boys? Barry introduced me to that Canadian classic, the trailer park boys, and we are cackling like school kids up front in the plane. Everybody's looking at us like we're crazy, but it's been a lot of good times, some at the rink, more away from the rink, and many of those good times included you two guys as well well you know i don't know for allowed to share this but but i still cringe when i think of the some of the dinners we had together on the off night steve how berry orders a steak i it's still

it's still it's still a thing in my mind when i'm grilling myself a steak i think of barry and i and i shake my head basically well well done yeah he's you know he's a farm boy you know and you can't take that away from him i guess uh and these are expensive steaks pierre as you know the finest aged cut beef, right? That's why I'm cringing. Yes, every time. How a chef never came out of the kitchen, you know, with a fork and knife at us, coming

running right at Barry, you know? How could you do that? That's like asking for ketchup, too, you know, for your state. I think I once told Barry, and he didn't punch me, luckily. I think I once told him we should just give him an old catcher's mitt instead. Too on that, yeah. Yeah, but you know what?

The thing I've been curious about, because I'm like Pierre, I've loved your call on Monday night football and you know you work with a guy in a booth and in in Brian greasy and you have at least you know as a listener it sounds like you've got a great rapport and and I wonder let's compare and contrast Brian Greasy Monday night football in the booth Barry Melrose guy you've worked alongside called many games with over the years strikes me they might be different people but you know talk about those relationships and how important they are and maybe maybe they aren't as different as you might imagine.

No, the way they approach their job and do their job is very different. I think the two sports are very different in how they are broadcast as well. But the overlying factor is I've been really fortunate, really without any exception of every partner in any sport I've ever had, have become like really close friends. Like not like, you know, not like working colleagues, like top 10 people in my life kind of guys. And as you guys know, you can't fake chemistry. It takes time. And most of that is developed also, you know, outside of the broadcast booth,

whatever sport you're broadcasting. So, you know, it took Brian Greasy and I a few years. We did four years of college. And then joining up with Brian and Lewis Riddick on Monday night football. And then trying to establish that with Lewis during a pandemic was really difficult. You know, they wouldn't even let us drive to the stadium together. We had to go in three separate cars.

Think about that for a second. And then, you know, the six of us, I would say, the four on-air people and producer and director, we were never in the same room, not once in the entire NFL season, which is, you know, bizarre other than the three of us being in the booth. So that takes time and that is a bit of an effort. And I've been really fortunate with the people I've worked in. Look, I always, you know, I would walk in. You guys have seen me walk around.

It's yellow legal pads, right? I'm still old school, really nothing on the computer. I've got my notes. I've got highlighted. I got charts. I got all this stuff. Stats taped up. Usually Ben Bowman on my left.

He's bringing stuff and notes. And then Barry walks in and he sits down and he's got nothing. I mean, not a single thing in front of him. Maybe a scratch piece of paper. And I mean, he's doodling on that during the game, you know, like during TV timeouts and all that. So I always said, back, where's your stuff? And he points to his head. He goes, leaves.

It's in the computer. I'm like, okay. And so, you know, Barry is read and react, right? I mean, that's what it is. But the constant action of hockey, I think, lends itself towards that. You know, in the NFL, it's so different. I know Greasy and Riddick are watching, you know, tons of tape, tons of tape, you know, during the week. And they do everything.

Greasy has a file card on, you know, just about every single guy. And it's, you know what, it's not just the players, right? In football, it's the formations. It's the schemes, you know, the blitz, and we run out of this, and we pass out of this. And there's so much more, and there is so much more downtime, right? The actual play, the actual action in the NFL could be three to five seconds on a play, certainly on a running play that, you know, games two yards.

And so hockey, there's no opportunity to look down, right? If you had all these great notes, Barry wouldn't be able to look down anyway. So I look down when Barry's talking and Barry's watching the ice and, you know, from his experience, being in the, there and behind the bench. So two dramatically, dramatically different styles, I would say. But Barry does watch more live hockey or as much as anybody I know. I just don't think he's breaking down film during the week the way the NFL guys do. You know, before we let you go, I just hope that my Cowboys bounce back this year. Like Steve, you got to, I mean, they re-signed

DAC, which I was thrilled, absolutely thrilled. But you got to give me some hope, man. Like, He got to give me some hope. I like them, and I will go back, Pierre, to the first, what, first four or five games last season with Dak. The offense was flying pretty high, scoring a lot of points. Dax numbers were off the charts, the first four or five games. Yeah, the defense was brutal all year. Yeah.

As it turned out, unfortunately, Monday night football went into the Jerry World the week after Dak got hurt. So it was cast a pall around the entire franchise and the whole city and nothing was fun, and here comes poor Andy Dalton. And by the way, Andy Dalton must be okay because the Bears just signed him to a $10 million a one-year deal to be the starting quarterback in Chicago for now. So people must have seen enough of tape of him

that he can still do it and start for the Bears. So, no, I think you're in good shape. Although, you know, obviously I don't think the division is very good, Pierre. So I'm aware. The Washington hasn't proved themselves. And I mean, the Giants would be much better, too. Yeah. All right.

Let's circle back to the actual game of hockey. So, and I'm curious because it's, I mean, it's entirely possible. I haven't looked at schedule, but it sounds like you, I mean, in theory, you could do both, right? I mean, you could do hockey and football. And let's assume, let's assume that there is that, that that's going to be in the cards. I know lots of, you know, who doesn't, we don't want to see you back in the, in the, the, the hockey booth. Is there a place that you have missed? Like if it, when you start to contemplate the NHL being back on the screen starting, it's going to be, it's so close really like next fall.

Where where you're like, oh boy, I'd love to get back there and do a game or I'd love to, I'd love to spend some time in this hockey market because I've missed it. Yes. So there are quite a few of those. And I do hope I, you know, there's a way to do both. Like we don't even know what night or night is going to be at on ESPN. They, you know, got to figure out. There's so much still to be figured out. But yeah, I miss a lot of the buildings. And I've been paying close attention to the North Division. And going into the Canadian buildings, quite frankly, was just so special because it meant so much. I do love the old buildings, but, you know, we all do and we're never going to get back there. And a lot of them are sort of

cookie cutters now. They're very similar and they're all cavernous. But the broadcast positions are very different. And so I love going to Montreal. I love going to Toronto. You know, I love being in the purchase. You know, that Montreal position is so good. And so, you know, Madison Square Garden is sort of the building I always grew up in. So the buzz in the garden for a big hockey game and, you know, bouncing off that ceiling was always among my favorites.

But, you know, all the big cities, I still have not been to the new Red Wings facility. So little seasons. I've not been to that arena yet. So I look forward to visiting there. And who knows, come October, the wings could be good, and hopefully the crowd will be full. And, you know, because hockey in Detroit, even though the Joe wasn't much to look at,

I mean, that building did rock and roll. That was, you know, they were so good for so many years. So I missed that. I miss that atmosphere. Guys, listen, I even miss the morning skate. I really do. Like people say, you know, if you look at my Twitter bio, I think it's still up there.

It's, you know, where are you? Like, you know, like the morning skate with coffee and clips, you know, like that was just, that was like my happy place. Nothing better than a hot cup of coffee and reading the newspaper clips. If they still do newspaper clips, I don't even know. Well, and the Seattle Cracken coming in next season. So you obviously are very aware of that market football-wise. It'll be interesting, don't you think, to see how, I mean,

obviously the demand has been through the roof in terms of their season and partial season ticket packages. And so far they've had the goal in touch with everything. they've done with that franchise. That's, I mean, honestly, I don't get it excited a lot anymore, 26 years covering the NHL, but getting the cracking in is, has got my juices going for sure.

No, new blood is good. As you meant, I mean, it's an unbelievable sports market. It's a shame the Mariners, you know, aren't good like ever because they would be fired up about them too. But we've seen what they do for the Seahawks. For my money, top three NFAC. Bell, home advantage, home field advantage cause of that crowd. I think they'll be wild there.

They're off to a good start, as you said. They seem to be pressing all the right buttons. Even their sweaters are cool, right? Their merchandise flying off the shelves. And the expansion draft is really, really interesting, I think, you know, based on what we saw last time with Las Vegas. All right. We are going to let you go, but I'm going to put you on the spot before we go because

unusual setup with the four divisions and of course the North Division, no cross-border play. So it a little bit harder to figure out how the playoffs might shake down. But I'm hopeful. I remain optimistic that come Stanley Cup final time with the vaccines available, that maybe we'll get an inch closer to normalcy. And that would mean hopefully that you and Barry will be at a Stanley Cup final in a few months. Who are the finalists?

What's your pick right now? Stanley Cup finalists and hopefully the three of us and we'll throw a berry into the mix. Hopefully the four of us will be able to stand a good six feet apart and share the moment. Who are your finalists? That would be so nice. Listen, it's really hard, guys. I think you'd agree. I've been watching a ton.

I've been pretty locked in now. I can't believe how inconsistent the league is on a night-to-night basis. Totally. The teams you think are really good. All of a sudden, the next night, they're getting really good. lit up by Ottawa, you know, and it's so hard to understand. And I think that makes it wide open. But if I got a pick two, okay, and I do want a crazy matchup. I want to take advantage of this format where we can get something weird where it's not east-west like it's always been.

Right. And I believe if things play out, we could get Boston, Montreal on a final, correct? Yes, we did. It is possible, though the haves are going to be, have to be a little more consistent than they've been of late. That's for sure. Right. And Montreal got off to a great start. They were flying right. And Boston's the same way, right? Boston got off to the best start in the league. And now they can't seem to find their way. And they're trying out people and goal, you know, and making their debuts and, you know, winning two to one. And so I'll root for something like that. Give me two old school teams that we can't usually see against each other in the final. That would be a massive win, I think, for the NHL and great action and two really good cities that we all know very well. Oh, that would stop. The off nights would be the best part. People don't understand, guys, the grind that it is on the media, right? They never concerted themselves with the media. Those off days are brutal. A lot of work. That's where you got to play hurt, my friend. That's the deal.

And on guilt. All right. Steve Levy, absolute treat, as always, to catch up. And so excited that, you know, what lies ahead? And thanks for sharing your time. And it's always, always so much fun. And here's to see, to doing it in person sooner than later. But thanks for coming and hanging out today. It's been great. Love you fellas.

You stay healthy out there and all your listeners as well. And I can't wait to see you guys. Great. Thanks, Steve. Take care. You're the best, man. Okay. Be well.

I didn't mention it, but we were wondering when Steve was on and thank God for Jeff to Matt, our producer who just knows it all. But April 1st, so he's hit all the, he's hit the major. holidays, April 1st and St. Paddy's Day, Steve Levy to join us. But what I, you know, Steve mentioned it. And it made me think of many of the times that we run into Steve. But he's absolutely right about the morning skate. And I'm not, I'm not going to paint everyone with the same brush. But sometimes the broadcasters aren't always at the morning skate, right? Like sometimes they don't. But Steve is always there. He's always, he always asked an insightful question. I, I, I,

I'm, he's, he's a true pro. And so, yeah, good for him. And I'm excited that this, uh, at what lies ahead. So what do you think? I'm thrilled that I got a Cowboys question in on him. So, so really my day is, is, has been me. I mean, I could just talk NFL with them all day, but of course, I wouldn't be doing my job if I did that, right?

Uh, he really, he really did a great job on Monday night football. But it just feels right to have him back in a more official way on the hockey. and yeah, who knows how they figure that out on the ESPN side. But again, we talked about it a lot last week, but just tremendous for the sport and the league to be back on ESPN. And again, I think it says a lot, you know, you and I were both part of the layoffs in ESPN in 2017 that we feel that way. It tells you how well we were treated when we were there and because we're able to make this about what we know is good for the sport. but also because, you know, I mean, I think a Joy Russo who is one of the best bosses I've ever had in my career, along with, you know, Neil Davidson at CP. Those are people that really impacted my career.

And we had Joy as her hockey editor in ESPN. I thought of her immediately with the ESPN announcement. And, you know, I don't know if she'll be involved or not in the coverage. She's always got a million things going on. She's an MVP over there in Bristol. But, you know, so many good people there and I'm happy for them that this is happening. Yeah, good point. All right, my friend, that was great.

We're just about at the end here. We're going to have a – I've really warmed to this answering questions from our readers and listeners. How do you feel about it? Are you okay with that? Absolutely, because the questions have been high-end. Yes, they have been high-end. And in that vein, I just want to warn Josh Clipperdin, our pal from CP will not be answering his submission about our hockey pool. So Josh, keep trying, but we will not be answering that.

At least, if you have a question about that, you reach out to Pierre or I, probably. But let's start with James R. I love this question, too, speaking to your point, Pierre. This is from radio headliner James R. He wants to know what we make. of Eric Carlson's comments about not signing up for a rebuild with the sharks. And this came after some comments from GM Doug Wilson about sort of resetting the roster there and seeing what their young players can do in a season that doesn't,

it's not going to end in a playhouse spot for the sharks. And he asks, James asks, if you could chart a path back to the playoffs and contention for the sharks. You know, how do you, how do you get back to the game? Not this year. Not this year. They're not good enough. But I actually think that, you know, maybe it's semantics,

but I think people misunderstood. I actually think Doug Wilson and Eric Carlson are saying the same thing. Agreed. So because if you pay attention to what Doug Wilson was saying, you know, to Kevin Kerr's and the rest of the San Jose media in his mid-season avail last week, he never used the word rebuild. He didn't even use Retool, I don't think. He used the word reset.

And again, I know people will roll their eyes. I think it's important. And if you're going to try and decipher what all this means, I think Doug Wilson's taken a page from Mark Bergerman in 2018 when the Havs went off the railing and the Havs announced a reset but around their veteran players, Price and Weber and Gallagher, etc. And that's what they did. They went out and have improved every year since then.

May not be good enough. I mean, if it's the playoffs this year, then the plan failed. But my point is they kind of rejigged it around. a veteran corps with younger pieces. And I think that's exactly what San Jose is trying to do. So, you know, I think Eric Carlson can live with that. What he's saying is he didn't go there to see the team gutted. So I got no problem with what either the GM or the Star Defensemen were saying.

I did see a couple of comments saying, well, if you didn't sign off for that, maybe you should play better. But listen, so much of what Eric Carlson has been about since he got to San Jose, has been mitigated by injury. And I, you know, who knows? Maybe he can never get back to the level of play that we saw when he won two Norris trophies in Ottawa. But I think to me, it's, it's, listen, a lot of money. It's a big contract. And if he's not, you know, if he can't play at an optimum level for him and for the team, that's a real problem.

But I think it, there's a guy that hasn't been healthy for much of the time he's been in San Jose. Do you think that's fair? Yeah, I think. I actually think he's played better of late from some of the Sharks games that I stayed up and watched. I have to admit that they're not quite on the go-to list like they used to be because I have to pay attention to teams like Vegas and Colorado. But, you know, I do think he's been better of late. And I'm not ready to say he's going to live up to 11.5 million a year.

But I do think that there's some pretty good hockey left in him. That's a good question from Jonathan Barnes. OSU Blue Jacket, and I'll give you a hint, it's about the Blue Jackets. And basically, Jonathan is asking, are the Blue Jackets waiting until the season is over before addressing their roster? And do you think they want to allow John Tortorella Torz to have a dignified exit at the end of its contract and then retool as opposed to doing something now? And to me, it's interesting because I keep looking at the standings and I'm going to just preface your answer by the fact that as we speak today, Columbus and fifth in the central. They're four back of Chicago.

Dallas is four back of Columbus with 100 games in hand. But I don't think Columbus, I don't think Columbus is out of it. And I think we're starting to see some leakage from a young, very surprising Chicago team. I just think the Blue Jackets are, you cannot count them out. And I love them as a team. If they sneak into the playoffs, we already know what they can do. And, of course, potential for them to actually match up for the third street year with Tampa is right there. So anyway, but it's a great question because, you know, there's lots going on with that Columbus team with the Dubois trade to Winnipeg for Patrick Plainey.

And what do you make of that? Yeah, so I think you covered a lot of it. You know, I don't think they put up the white flag yet. And, you know, they would never come out and say this, I'm sure. But I think part of it is Chicago for real. I think if you're Dallas or Columbus, you need to hang in a few more weeks before you decide what you're doing ahead of the deadline because I think that fourth spot is still up for grabs realistically. And so because of that, I think Columbus has to hold off on being sellers. But if they don't make up the ground, then we're closer to April 12th.

I mean, obviously, really the big name is Nick Folingo, who's been in UFA. They really haven't been any contract talks there. Now, he's got a no move or at least, I think, a new trade in front of me. you'd have a pretty big say where all that goes, but that would be an interesting situation for sure. Boy, could he help a contender. But I'm with you. I actually think that part of why we haven't seen much there on the Columbus side of things is that I think they feel they're still the run in them. And I don't blame them, given the way they play the last couple of years. They've proven they have that in their DNA. And for torts, I mean, you know, I've been, I've said this a couple

times during the season, I think that's really a two-way street there. I think that, you know, John Torrella gives it his all. He absolutely empties the tank in terms of giving everything you has to running that bench and to that organization. And my guess is one of the reasons why he wasn't signed an extension before the year. It wasn't just the finances of the pandemic, i.e., I don't know that Y. Murm O'Ka. Kalinin was in a position to even offer an extension. But I, I think that torts has been around a long time and probably wanted to see how this year went, right? I mean, he's got confidence in it. Nick Felino, a 10-team, no-trade list.

And I know his names come up as possible. Maybe it's Toronto. And a friend of two-man advantages of podcasts, as you know. So I can understand where teams would be interested. But I'm with you that may be too early to see which side of the fence. the blue jackets will be on versus vis-a-vis buying or selling. And, you know, so we're going to fall, we're going to go with lots of good questions. I'm going to go back to our good friend Alan in Ottawa, who has, he sends in a question every week.

Sometimes it's about personal hygiene and our relationship. But this is a really good question. And I'm curious what your answer will be. And he wants to know which NHL GM or coach might have, he says feared, but I'll say that has a gruff exterior, maybe, you know, instills, you know, some level of fear in the meteor or whatever, but you would most like to sit down and have a glass of rosé with, or in your case, maybe a nice cap. There's definitely no rosé in my palate. And rosé's have become quite popular the last couple years, but a lot of my friends drink.

I live in the south. Right. I live in the south. It's hot here. So I'm a big rosé. I drink some rosé on my port, so that's where that comes from. You know, I think it's a good question. You know, personality that may be a lie, somebody that you know,

that we could be good to sit down and have a glass of wine with. Anybody? Well, I'm a bit compromised here because I have had drinks with a lot of these coaches. Yeah, of course you have. So I don't know how to answer this. Well, I'll go first, though, because and the guy that I find so fascinating, and I think he does, because I know he's talked to Aaron Portsline about it, but Yarmotkekeleana and the Columbus GM, I think he enjoys a glass of wine.

And then I think he's a no-nonsense guy, but very smart. And I love Aaron Porterstein's piece. He went to Finland and spent some time with Yarmow at his home. And I don't think people understand just, you know, sort of how deep those waters are. So I would say I'm going to go with Yarmal Kekeleana. I think enough time has passed where I can share this story. But one of my favorite nights ever socializing with someone in the business that way was during the Cup final, I think in 14. I went to Dean Lombardy's garage.

I went to his garage in Manhattan Beach when he was obviously GM of the two-time cup champs. And so this was a regular occurrence for Dean Lombardi that he would often have players or most often than not for an office staff come to the garage and they would do a lot of you know, brainstorming. You know, what can we do better? Let's get ready for the next series. Let's do this, let's do that.

In fact, Lombardi mentioned in that piece I wrote on Daryl's side that before every series, him and Daryl would pound a couple of beers and go over the matchups before each series in his garage in Manhattan Beach. Anyway, it was a fabulous night to be an interloper and be invited into that forum and to see Dean Lombardi and his element interacting with staff members. And it's intense. And I learned a lot that night.

And I also drank a lot of beer. But that was certainly a memorable night. Good, good stuff. Great answer. Good question by Al and good answer by you. All right. Time to wrap it up here. Other pod info.

How about Ian Mendez, Sean McIndo, as always. We'll have the Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. So don't miss that. and Ryan Hardy. Really interesting guy, the GM of the USHL's Chicago Steel, joins Craig Custence on the full 60 this week at The Athletic. And you should check out our comments section for each podcast episode at the Athletic app and rate and subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on Apple.

If you aren't already a subscriber, go to theathletic.com slash hockey show and receive a subscription for just $3.99 per month. buddy what a great show and glad you got your Cowboys question in with Steve and I hope he made you feel a little bit better and that was outstanding work by you. That was a ton of fun. Good job. Cowboys are going to win the NFC East? All right, all right, all right.