The Athletic Hockey Show - Building Team USA and Canada Olympic rosters

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

With the Winter Olympics less than 100 days away, Hailey and Sean, along with Shayna Goldman take a look at pressing Olympic roster questions for Canada and the United States before the start of the Milano-Cortina Games. They discuss Shayna's piece about where NHL teams get their best players and Hailey and Sean stick tap Jonathan Toews return to Chicago on Thursday night, and Brad Marchand who took a temporary leave of absence from the Panthers to head home to Halifax to coach the March & Mill Co. Hunters at the Nova Scotia U-18 level for his friend JP MacCallum, whose daughter Selah died after a battle with cancer.Hosts: Hailey Salvian and Sean GentilleWith: Shayna GoldmanExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What's up, everyone? Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Haley Salve and Sean Gentilly here with you on another fine Thursday. Not a ton of action in the NHL on Wednesday night, just one game between the Toronto Maple Leafs and Columbus Blue Jackets. We can thank the Frozen Frenzy for that one. But instead of breaking down the games,

we're going to jump around the league with our pal Shaena Goldman instead and discuss her great piece about where NHL teams. teams get their best players. We're also going to take a look at some pressing Olympic roster questions because we are officially under 100 days away from the Milano Cortina Olympics. But first, as always, let's bring in the one and only Shanjin-Tili. What's up? Are we going with Milano Cortina permanently there?

Is that the correct way to refer to this whole operation? I mean, on first reference, that's technically correct. Is it, is Milan, Milano in Italy? Milano Cortina. That's the Olympics. That's the official name of the Olympics. Mm-hmm. I thought we were going to talk about Blue Jackets,

it's Maple Leafs for 45 minutes. You just do that, right? Do you want to do that instead? Yeah, I got a good 22 minutes on, on Yeager Shinnekov in me, for sure. Very, very simple. What do you think about Craig Barube? I've no, I don't know who that is.

I have no opinions on that man. Mitch Marner's absence on the power play. Oh my God. I get them maybe felt sick to my stomach, just hearing that. Just the idea of analyzing such a thing makes me ill. Well, the Toronto Maple Leafs are now 11 games for the season. Most teams in the NHL are around that 10-game mark into 2025-26, which feels like a great time to do some early season vibe checking.

And there is nobody better to do that with than Shana Goldman who joins us now. Shana, thanks for doing this. How's it going? What are the vibes for you right now? The vibes are that we need to talk about the Toronto Maple Leafs because they demand our attention. I mean, come on. We simply must. I get enough of that.

I have a five of former Leaf and maybe the world's foremost Leaf fan in my, ear for an hour and a half every every Wednesday. I don't need it from you guys either. That's enough. That's enough. Are you talking about Frank or other Sean? Um, yeah, McIndoo played for the Leafs. Did you not know that?

He was part of like the Darcy Tucker. He wasn't aligned with Darcy Tucker for a while in the 90s. I thought McIndoo was the one that was always in the press box. Yeah, that's him. Eating his little bag of popcorn. That's him. He has the right idea with the popcorn at least. I mean, it's the only snack you should be eating at a game.

That's true. Shana Haley brought up the vibe check. Is it back for this season? Because I feel like that always, I always look forward to it because I feel like it covers up some blind spots for me from not being able to watch every game all the time, unlike certain other people. Is it back for 25, 26?

I mean, who among us can watch all of the games when they're all on at the same time, honestly? But yes, it's back. It runs today. because we do not need 10 games or 12 games or whatever is on the Thursday schedule to destroy the story. It's part of the fun of power rankings too. Dom and I started doing that.

We just made a real bad decision to do it on Thursday night four years ago or whatever. And now we're just locked to it. We're chained to it forever. We got to wait until 13 games and every night to do it. Don't do it. I moved my fantasy column for that reason. It is no longer Friday fantasy trends. I don't care if Thursday is not catchy.

Thursday it is. we're stupid people, Domina. You've figured it out in a way that we haven't. So on this Thursday morning, though, we are waking up and taking a look at the NHL standings, and there's maybe two teams, one for sure, maybe two, depending on where your allegiance lie, that we could have expected in the top five in the NHL standings this season. I would say, so number one, it's the Devils, the Pittsburgh Penguins, the Utah Ameth, the Colorado Avalanche, which would have been the given, at least for me, and then the Montreal

Canadians. Some teams mixed in there that we could have thought would be interesting, but also some teams that we thought were going to be terrible. I definitely know that Sean said the penguins were going to be bottom five. I heard him say it. I heard him say it. And he's still saying it. But, Shana, how do you look at this little crew? How surprising is the current top five? We know it's early. We can preface it with that. We still, we still, we're, we still. We still have to talk about it. If not, we'd have nothing to talk about. I'm so tired of prefacing everything.

We know it's early. Sean, I'm doing it to save my own butt from everyone who's going to call me stupid. I was, I complained about it earlier today. Like, I get it. We have to say it. I just, I just, I wish, I wish we didn't have to. I feel like I didn't once in my column now that I think about it. So I can't wait for everyone to be like, oh, we've decided everything as if it's not

seven to ten games. I think I forgot. I think I just erased it from my brain of like, I'm not doing that. that anymore. Yeah. But whatever. What do we think? How surprising is that top five?

I mean, the penguins are the odd ball because who among us thought they would do literally anything this year? And I think it's more surprising that it's not just like Sidney Crosby doing everything. It's Afghani Malkin having this massive bounceback year and Breszo and Manta scoring a ton. So they are definitely surprising, but at least they're interesting, right? Like it could be a lot worse. We could be watching the penguins games. trying to enjoy these last couple seasons of Crosby and watching the world's worst game on Earth,

which is pretty much what we all did last year. Yeah, it's similar, I think, to some of the vibes that we had, not last year with the Capitals, but the year before that, the first Carberry year where everybody was like, okay, this team's going to suck. It's going to be a slog to the Gretzky record for Ovechkin. Like, let's see if we can get some half decent hockey out of it. But I don't think anybody expected them to be, you know, the watch that they've been. for the last couple years. Like this is,

that's the vibe that I'm getting from Pittsburgh right now. And I'm not trying to compare Dan Mews to Spencer Carberry straight away, right? Even though both are, both are bald men. How many NHL? What was it last year?

And it was like Huska taking over Carberry? Or was it two years ago? And it was just like, and Greg Croton and just a bunch of bald men with glasses. Yeah, this is, this is bald excellence on the, on the part of Spencer Carberry and Dan Mews.

So congrats to them. But I think there is some shared DNA there. I think some of the effect that Mews has had on that team is similar to what we saw from Carberry early on. And I think some of the dialogue and some of the discourse surrounding Pittsburgh this season is similar, where it's like, okay, well, you know, I think we're at the point now where it's fair to say that they're not going to suck as badly as we thought they were going to suck. And that first year under Carberry, yeah, the caps had the gold differential of minus of zillion or whatever it was, but, you know, they banked points early and they strung together enough

to be relevant down the stretch. And I think there's something to be said for that, for sure, when you have a player who's old like that, whether it's Crosby now or Oveskin a couple years ago, where you're like, okay, we just need some kind of excuse to watch this team. We need something to hold on to that doesn't make this depressing affair to watch one of the all-time grades, you know, play out the string. I'm getting similar vibes from Pittsburgh at the moment. I mean, until the trade deadline, right, like if anybody does get moved, because you definitely

have your aging stars and those franchise cornerstones still like the caps, David Carlson, and Ovechkin. And then you also have these up and coming players. And we just saw Pittsburgh make a couple call-ups from the AHL to get some of their young guns in the mix. And then you have reclamation projects like Anthony Mantha struck out at a lot of different stops, including Washington. So now it's like, okay, what can you do in a different surrounding with a different coach? So you put it all together and there's definitely similarities, but it all depend on what they do, if anything, with Raquel, who obviously is injured now in Rust and Eric Carlson and not Sidney Crosby because that is the one discourse. I don't, I'm done until he says otherwise, I don't want to hear it again.

He's not leaving until he says it. I love it. You're on my side on that one. Thank you. It's annoying. I, it's disrespectful. I'm going to say it again. I said about it so many times. Sydney Crosby has said over and over again what he wants and people continue to not take him at his word. And I think that's just one of the crumbiest things you can do with a player who's, who's, uh, spend his career doing the kind of stuff that he has. So yeah, I need someone else on my side here. Yeah. Haley, you're, I think, I think you've been on the right side of stuff too for the most part, but no. Yeah. Mostly because I need my dad to stop asking me about it. And he's gotten duped by like fake Bob McKenzie accounts on Facebook over the years. He was like, oh my God,

breaking news from Boob McKenzie. He's been traded to Montreal. And I'm like, delete Facebook. Why are you doing this? It's Blorb McKenzie and there's four underscores, Frank. Like, this isn't, this isn't going to work. Yeah, Blorb was probably more respectful to Bob. I hope he's enjoying retirement.

I'm sure he is. Shana, one of the teams that you have found the most interesting to start the season has been the Utah Mammoth, their top five in the NHRA. Nick Schmaltz is tied for second in league scoring with Nathan McKinnon. What has made the mammoth so fun for you in the early goings here? Maybe it's that I thought they would be good last year and they weren't off the bat because they had so many injuries. And I'm like, look, I'm vindicated now.

But like, honestly, it's the pace. It's the young gun scoring. Like, I think Clayton Keller is such a sick player. I don't think he gets enough respect because he was in Arizona because the team around him was bad. But now you're seeing him with an actual sporting cast and he looks excellent. and Nick Schmaltz is another guy. Like, I know for fantasy every year, I'm like, pick this guy up.

He plays so many positions. I had him last year. Yeah, he's great to have. And at the beginning of this year, I think his roster percentage was like 36%. But like, you just see it coming together now. Like, we knew Logan Coley had that star potential. Now you're seeing it. And you're seeing it in more meaningful games because it was down the stretch.

And Sean, that was something we got told for player tears too. Like he did it when it was garbage time now, do it when it matters. Okay, he's doing it. Gunther's doing it. Paterka looks great. Sergei Chav, look at that. He could be a true number one defenseman. It's coming together the right way.

Keller is just one of my favorite player archetypes too where, you know, say three years ago, four years ago, five years ago, you know he's sick when you watch him, right? Like he does, he's such a great playmaker and he does so much in the offensive zone. But the numbers didn't quite back that up. Like he wasn't a great five on five player. He was a deficient defensive player, I think, in terms of his impacts for a while. So there was always that asterisk that came, you know, next to his name as part of the discourse surrounding him.

And now it's like, yep, never mind. He's good. He's 85, 90 point, 95 point capable, clearly. And he's added enough substance to his game where we can, you know, talk about him in some, in some different terms. And you've seen that, you know, those two parts of the game, you know, the sick factor and then the substance factor kind of dovetail in the right way and really combined to make a player who everybody should just kind of consensus agrees. One of the best in the league. He's fun.

Yeah. And that's like all we're asking for us for players to be fun. I think, too, it's a reminder of you can teach defensive structure. Sometimes it takes a minute. But that shouldn't be priority number one when you have someone who is such an offensive thing. threat. Like maximize their game, help them be the best version of themselves, and then you build on it. You look at someone like Leon Drysettle who got hype for the sulky last year. You know, if he killed more penalties, he could have won it, honestly. But a couple years ago, like, his defensive game was pretty disastrous. But it's fine because he's so good everywhere offensively.

And then, oh, look, it came together. It takes time for that side to develop. You can teach defensive structure. You're not teaching someone to have that offensive IQ, right? Like, you can refine your skills, but you're not outright. recreating them. And I think that's something so important to remember. So when you have someone like Clayton Kelly who has that ability and it was there, and I think we were seeing come together, like just let them cook and it'll come to fruition. Yeah. And I think, too, there's something to be said for, I feel like maybe we don't, you know, collectively, we don't focus on this enough.

When a really good player becomes great, I think that's a jump that sometimes we miss. you know when we have these we have an idea in our head like okay this this player is really really good at things one through four he's he's less less good at things five and six and then we just kind of let him stagnate mentally like for us and maybe don't give them the credit that they deserve quickly enough but it it is fun to see players you know jump from being a being a being a seven to an eight and a half right and I just I just like I love like seeing it. I think that's a big part of what we've seen from Keller. And I really sums up a lot of what makes Utah, yeah, an interesting watch. Maybe a year later than we thought they were going to be, because I know, I know, Shay, you and I both thought that we were both on their bandwagon pretty early last year, and it didn't quite pan out until the end. But yeah, it's good to see them get off to a good start for sure. Logan Cooley signs 10 times eight-year contract, Shane. I know the Wednesday guys talked about this, but what do you like about the bet that

the mammoth are taking on their 21-year-old forward here. Well, it's definitely a reminder of, like, what this new look cap world is. And I feel like people see the number 10 million and they're instantly like, oh, my God, this guy that were paid. Only X number of players should be paid 10 million. Well, like, okay, sure, but 10 million in today's NHL, especially next year's NHL when we expect the cap to go up even more is, is totally different from what it meant before. So I was skimming through of like which centers in year one of their deal, you know,

we're in a similar cap hit percentage of what Kooley is. And that's 9.6%. Well, Jack Hughes was. 9.7% someone who didn't have the fess start in year one, but you saw the pieces come together pretty quickly in his initial career. And now, oh, look, that's a superstar player. That is a franchise cornerstone. That is a true number one center. And that is exactly the path that coolie's on. And a player who shows up on the dreaded, if you're a player or an agent, the dreaded biggest bargains list or certainly should, right? Like, that's how we talk about Jack Hughes now.

And he's in a world where his brother plays for the same team and is making more money than him. As, you know, we love Luke Hughes. He's going to be great, but he's certainly a less accomplished player than Jack is at this point, too. And he's making a pretty significant chunk of change more than him. So, yeah, it is funny to see how that shakes out. All right. Logan Cooley was selected by the Coyotes, aka now the Utah Mammoth, with the number three pick in the 2022 draft. the highest player born in Pittsburgh to be drafted if we want to give Sean a little shout out there.

I gas him up on Wednesday, baby. West Mifflin legend Logan Cooley. Let's go. Yeah. But this is a nice segue into Shana's story here that came out on Tuesday about where NHL teams get their players. And it's one thing to discuss Logan Cooley and use him as an example of how important it is to draft and develop your talent. but this story, Shana, kind of lays it pretty plain. 91 of the top 150 players on player tiers came through the draft. Just wondering if you could take us through a bit of that deep dive and your biggest takeaways. Because to me, it's looking at, okay, you want to get a stud. You're going to have to do it through good scouting and development and through the draft.

But what do you think? You went through all of it. Yeah, I think there are some teams that are going to be exceptions, right? And the Florida Panthers stand out of one of them because they have 10 players on tiers. Only two were drafted by the team and it's Barkoff and Ekblad, two top five picks, but they've benefited from a lot of trades. They have a waiver claim. The loan waiver claim of the top 150 in Gus Forer's Ling, you know, they've made it work in someone like Vegas does too, but that just isn't the norm. Like they're the exception to the rule and anyone else can try

to embrace that energy and go off. That would be super interesting, but it just isn't the case. You know, like we, every year we do player tiers and we look at it to look at who are the best players and which teams have the most players. But there's some. something to figuring out how you get them, especially when you look at the rising contract world. And I think how quick everyone is to call every contract an overpayment. And that happens with Kooley. It happened with Kyle Connor and Caprisoff. But Caprisov's one of 10 guys in Tier 1. And you have to drift and develop Tier 1 players. That's how it's 10 out of 10. So, Coral Caprisoft, they have that franchise cornerstone. He is a top three winger in the world.

it makes sense why you would overpay to retain a star versus starting the process all over again, which would just crush the wild, you know, if they were to let him walk. Same goes for Kyle Connor. You know, it's a little different. He's a tier three guy. And I think it's easy to be like, hey, his A.A.V is the same as Marner and Ransident. And they are a full tier part. I think it's 2B to 3B.

That's a pretty big gap. But even when you account for the differences in 12 million a year from year to year with the salary cap jump, You know, that's the Jets' highest ranked player up front. You know, they have Morrissey, they have Hellabuck, but that's their franchise cornerstone at Forward. And you look at how free agency dwindles every single year, every top guys off the market by July 1st. Could they try for a Natchez or Kempay at this point?

Yeah, absolutely. If they were to lose Kyle Connor, but who's to say they'll even be there on July 1? So it just makes more sense why teams should be prioritizing, retaining their own guys, even if you have to overpay a little, because these are the best players in the world, literally the top 150 players. Yeah,

Martin Natchez and Adrian Campi, those are really good players, right? But they can't be your best player if you want to truly contend for a cup. I think we've seen that in some capacity. That kind of leads us into another big takeaway from the piece for me is I think it's 13 players. Or out of the top 150,

we're acquired by their current teams as free agents. We're signed in free agency. I mean, that's, that's wild and we hear year after year that the you know that the the the pool is thinner than we're used to and yaddi we've seen so many players who could have been in the mix you know even sign of over the last few weeks um were you surprised to see the number that low because i'm saying this as someone who put together the list with you and and and knows that thing like the back of my hand at this point i don't know that i gave enough thought or

enough shrift to the idea that 13 out of the 150 top players in the league, according to our little list here, ended up on their team, you know, just strictly by the free agency market. That's, that's wild. Yeah, I didn't think it was going to be that low. And then it was a reminder of, like, all of the sign and trades or, you know, trading draft rights and I'm sorry, signing rates. Guys like Gensel, Marner, they technically don't qualify for the free agent list. So it shrunk even more.

Same with Logan Thompson and Tier 5. but yeah, you look at it. Tier 1, there's zero for agent signings. Artemi Panarin is the lone guy, since Martin doesn't count, in tier two. But Brovsky is it in tier three. In tier five, you have eight guys, and I think that really speaks to what we've been seeing in recent years, right? Like the 2025 class could have been stacked.

It wasn't. It was mid-tier guys making it there. It was the Vladislav Gavlovs of the world and that kind of sweepstakes and, you know, Nikolai Eilers versus anybody else. So it makes sense that those are, you know, the very high, supporting cast guys or just outright supporting cast players who don't make the cut. It makes more sense, but I didn't believe it until I saw it in front of me. I really thought maybe 20 players there, you know, like something a little bit higher.

Yeah. It would have been 20. Like if you had maybe set the over under at the start of the process, I'd be like, yeah, and like 19.5, give it, give or take, if I'd have said it there. Yeah. So to see it, you know, clock in as low as it did was honestly eye opening. And again, come from someone who's looked at that list a zillion times, more than I ever care to admit, you know, having it be that fuse was kind of, kind of wild.

Yeah, you can debate the list like all day. And we did. And we went through every single player. And it's like, it's interesting to see too, like the players who, you know, the top guys who were traded and the guys who were traded before they ever played NHL games. Like, you know, there's a handful of those players on the list like Fox and Suzuki and Faber and Forzburg. And I think that makes it more interesting too. Like, will teams try to make more bets on that? or maybe will we see teams move first round picks a little bit less because there's so many first round picks on this list. It's have it here, 29 top five picks, 32 other players who were drafted in round one. And then you go through the players who weren't drafted by their current teams.

You still have nine players who are top five picks and another 23 who are round one guy. So, you know, we see first round picks get moved around like their candy. And it's, I think some teams can afford to do that, right? Like you're at Vegas, you're Florida. go off, right? Because you're looking for that final piece to solidify your group. You already have a ton of players up and down the 150. But if you're anyone below that contender tier, maybe think about it twice, right? Because even those late first round picks matter, maybe more than we give them credit for. And if you're a team that's in the middle or rising up the ranks of Montreal, a Columbus,

maybe don't move those first round picks at all unless you legitimately have so many players on your roster that were those former top guys that you feel confident about it. that was one of the big thoughts I had after going through the stories like I wonder how teams or like how we as analysts will reconcile this idea of like you want to build um with your draft picks and all these players who are like you know team grown talent but also knowing and understanding and appreciating the GMs who are like I actually don't care about the draft I'm going to go try to win we've seen Tampa do it we've seen Florida do it um we all complain about the oilers when they're they don't do it. So there is this interesting juxtaposition of use your draft picks, get that top talent, but also if you're if you're one piece away, then actually who cares? Like, if you have Connor McDavid on your team, you shouldn't care about a first round draft pick because you have the greatest player in the planet and you should go spend that draft capital, especially when free agency is looking a little bit bleak. Free agency 2026, McDavid, Caprizov, Kyle Connor,

Jack Eichel, they've all extended early. So did Jake Walman? And like even Anthony Stolars, I think Panarin and Sergey Bobrovsky are the only two members of that 2026 class in the top three tiers of player tiers as Sean kind of dropped in this dock. So maybe teams this year should be holding on to their draft picks. I don't know. Let's take a little break, though. Coming up next, we're going to talk about the Milan Olympics. We are under 100 days out. We've got some questions, some topics we can cruise around as we preview the NHL going back to the Olympics.

That's coming up next on the Athletic Hockey Show. All right, welcome back to the athletic hockey show. As we mentioned, the Milan Olympics are under 100 days out. We've got some roster projections. We can take a look at NHL.com. Had a couple for a bunch of the teams, especially with Canada and the U.S. Shana Goldman is still here with us. I'm going to put you on the spot here, Shana and start with a tough one. Do you have like one really spicy, like Olympic roster take? It could be for Canada of the U.S. Is there someone you're like, I need them on the roster now or I need them gone yesterday? I don't know if it's spicy, but I'm going to go with, I need Dylan Larkin on that roster, and I need him playing big minutes, or I'm going to be upset. I am on the Dylan Larkin train. I thought he was sick of Four Nations. I thought he did not play enough. I don't need, and I love Brock Nelson's game.

Like, I don't need Brock Nelson there. I, you know, I think you can swap out some centers or just find ways to move him up. And it's going to be tough. You have Matthews, you have Hughes. You know, you have Eichel. but get Dylan Larkin on there. Get that man at the faceoff dot. At every chance they go,

you're looking at the Red Wings right now and what they're doing with him and it's so interesting. Like he's being thrown out there for the initial phase off of every penalty kill. And then he gets off the ice within 10 seconds. Just get him on Team Yose and let him cook. Let him do whatever he wants.

I want to put Cole Cofield on the U.S. roster. Yes. I want to get him there. I was saying that at four nations. Everyone respect me. And we heard so much to coming out of Four Nations about how certain players couldn't keep up with the physicality. Certain players didn't show the jam that was required in that tournament. I get it.

I heard from a lot of people with a lot of teams. Oh, you want to talk about Adam Fox in player tears this year? Yeah. We can talk about Adam Fox. We can talk about Jack Hughes at some extent. I think people were not enamored with the tournament he had there. but like so whatever we're taking those concerns we're completely throwing them out we're saying give me this small goal boy in cole cofield and put him on the roster but i think i think i want it to

happen and i'm looking at the i'm looking at the nhl.com 100 days out projection just kind of as my is my is my is my is my is my guideline here um put him on and take cane off yes yes put him on and take Kane off. That would be my change. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I have a real degree of sympathy for the Patrick Cains of the world and the Chris Kreiders of the world and these guys who aren't going to be able to play, you know,

who are going to miss out on so many Olympic chances just due to, you know, the NHL and IHF not being able to play ball over the last bunch of years. Like, I get it. I feel bad for you guys. I've also aged out of Olympic eligibility too over the last 10 years. But we need Cole Coughfield to get involved. Just to like, just for the sake of fun. Because he's been good also, Coffield, right?

Like, he's added some stuff to his, to his game. So, yeah, I want to see Cofield on the ice against Nick Suzuki at some point internationally. I think I need that. Yeah, I'm calling. Is Suzuki, like, in Locke territory for Canada for you guys? Yeah, yeah. He should be.

Yeah, because he's, I mean, the difference between him and a Cawfield is, like, Cofield everyone will say, well, he's only good at one thing. And it's like, well, first of all, he's good at my country. more than one thing. He's good at like one of the most important things that you can do, especially in a overtime game against. Yeah. The thing that held,

USA back. Yeah. Yeah, a little bit important there. And isn't Nick Suzuki of a type with the player we discussed earlier, or the player I brought up earlier, the archetype, which is Clayton Keller,

like the really good player who gets closer to great at some point in their career. I think everyone needs to, you know, I'm glad to see it over the last couple years. As Suzuki's gotten better and added to his game and changed it, some of the people who rightfully were not sold on him have kind of come around and realize that this is a high-end player who deserves to, you know, be in these conversations from the start. We shouldn't be talking about Nick Suzuki as, you know, sneaking on to this roster, I don't think. I think he probably should have a, I think he should out of the spot and I think you should have it comfortably for sure. He was outright their MVP last year. And I don't know, both players look good in the playoffs and they were up against a season team like

the Capitals. I wasn't look at them going up. They're shrinking away. And, you know, it's all crap. Like, it honestly is. And people will go for Patrick Kane who, yes, in his day was an elite player, but also like, he's an elite playmaker. You need shooters. And you look at the roster and you're like, well, Ikel is an elite playmaker, and, you know, Jack Hughes is an elite playmaker. You have a lot of those guys already. I would want more shoot first players. And if you're going to dock Cole Cofield for a lack of physicality and a lack of size and a lack of jam, like you can dock Patrick Kane at this point in his career, certainly

for a lot of that. And he's also not a substantive five-on-five player anymore either. So it's like, I get it. I have, Patrick Kane is the best American player. of his generation and if not the best of all time, you know, at the very tippy top of the list. I get it. But man, if you're trying to put out the best, the best roster, you know, maybe Cawfield isn't the guy that replaces them, but I think you can do better than, than him in some capacity. Is that cold? Is that mean? Is that like a kick in the bud after, after all he's

meant for USA hockey? Like, maybe to some extent. Are you here to make friends? Are you here to build a roster? What do we do? Nobody. No, no American. has more goals than Cole Coughfield in the NHL right now. Like, we're not talking about some scrub. He and Jack Hughes are tied for the lead among forwards, I should say, in scoring. They each have nine goals. Next up to Shane's original point, Dylan Larkin has eight. Those are the top American scoring forwards in the NHL right now. Cole Cofield, Jack Hughes, and Dylan Larkin. So these shouldn't be crazy takes, but I think that does speak to what you. It's not. I think that does speak to what players like a Cole Coughfield is up against because of the size, because of the way they play,

but also because you're going up against, you know, the institution that is USA hockey at times, which is like we've got to take care of our guys. And Patrick Cain is very much one of them, even if Cole Coughfield should very much be on the roster. But I would rather boot Patrick Cain than like a Tage Thompson, call me crazy. Are we going to do spicy takes on the Canadian roster too? Yeah, do it. Do you have a quick one there? Shana, you guys?

No, go first, go first. I go on. Sean clearly has one. Tom Wilson's on the team already. I could see. Yeah. Got to play himself off. Like he would have to be hurt or, he'd have to be hurt or bad for the next, for the next few months for him to play if I'm in charge of that group for him to play his way off.

I think the season he had last year, you know, the, the, the all the first off, he's all the way back from ACL surgery, which there's something to be. set for that. But also just a dude's turned into such a well-rounded hockey player. He's such a playmaker to a degree that he doesn't get credit for. He's mesh with Dubois and in pro-dust

in a lot of ways. And he is, if everyone wants to sit there and obsess over the element that the Kachucks bring to the U.S. team, fine. I think Wilson, you know, if you're looking for counterbalance, you got it to the

Kachucks, you got him there. And also he's just a really good hockey player on his own accord at this point. Like, he's on there easily for me. Who do you take off? Because I think that's fair. Is it Seth Jarvis? Because he's not a decent start. No, I want both of them on there. Because to me, I look at them and I go, Wilson can now go up against top competition and play a shutdown role. That's now, it's not just the physicality. It's not just the offense he has that. Seth Jarvis is that pesky all-situation player that you need my hot take. Well, first of all, let's see what happens with Mark Stone, what he looks like by then, if he's healthy. I think he's my wild card. The other one is, I can go without Mark Shepley. He's a good player. I think there are other

players on here that I would rather. I would rather have Seth Jarvis to a Mark Shepley. I think that's fair. I just think Seth Jarvis became kind of the punching bag at Four Nations. Like he was the one that people were like. I won't stand for that. I don't stand for that. I agree. I'm just asking the question. I'm just the host. I think Tom Wilson should be on this roster. And there's an interesting debate of like, do you want to add him? Like, if nothing else, just because he has that physical presence, like is Matthew or Brady Kachuk, if healthy by the Olympics, going to be trying to drop the gloves in the first four seconds?

If it's Tom Wilson over Brandon Hagel on the other side, maybe not. But I also think that the Olympic roles are different. So, like, do you want a guy who's going to get, like, booted? like it's more um they're more stringent and strict about the fighting and penalties he's the best than they would have been at four nations he's the best play but i think beyond just the physical element that is tom wilson like i think this is more the point i'm trying to make maybe two years ago or three years ago when people are having this debate it's like do we want tom wilson for his physical presence well like no you can't fight at the olympics well you shouldn't fight at the

Olympics because the penalties are larger, but also, like, he brings more than just that now. And, like, it's okay to acknowledge that Tom Wilson's a good hockey player. He's not just a big hockey man, even though there are benefits to having his physical presence beyond fighting. Yeah, there's, there's no fights at the Olympics, really, but there's certainly physicality in the corners. And I think Wilson is still a force there. And he can skate. He can skate still. That was always his superpower, or even when he was at his worst with the disciplinary stuff, you know, 10, 10, 8 years ago,

that was part of, that was part of the problem was that the dude skated like a freight train. And he, and he was capable of generating a ton of speed and laying down violent, dirty illegal hits. And he's reined in now, but he's still,

you know, especially two years out from that injury, man, he can, he can skate. So I'll take him on my team 100 times out of 100. Are we cutting Travis Kineckney? Yes.

I mean, I guess. It feels like, I feel like that's going to have to happen. Yeah. Well, okay, so here's one other name I'll throw out there. And I think it's similar to the Tom Wilson conversation. I am not, it's tough. It's very tough to say this because we all know he's electric when it matters the most. I don't know.

Where are you going, girl? Sam Bennett's play this year, I am concerned about his start to the year. and I am concerned about him within the bounds of Olympic hockey versus, and I get it. Listen, I get playoff Sam Bennett is, he is as good as it gets, right? But there's something there that I'm going, if you have a Wilson, do you need a Bennett? Do you need that same element? Do you think he will not, like, this is not the NHL with, I'm sure the officiating is going to be controversial, but it's so different from the NHL playoffs where you look at it and go, oh, my God, the officiating is God awful.

and he's getting away with so many things that he should. Like, that's not going to happen here. Officiating is going to be bad in a different way. Yeah. Can he do enough elsewhere, though, to make up for it? Like, I would like to see a little bit more from him this year. And if you can only take one, are you taking Wilson over Bennett? Yeah.

In the year of 2026. I think I am. I think I am. See? She came around. They all laughed at me. I am with you that he's very, I think the big thing is

remembering like a player's health and recalibrating that timeline. That's the key to being like, oh, he's not washed. And I think we have to think about all players the same way now with that. Where do we stand? Sticking with Canada, we'll go back to the U.S. and I honestly feel like the forwards are the more interesting

ones. I feel like on both sides, the top D are, there isn't really like a ton of debate. Maybe I'm missing something here. But we can stick with the forwards for Canada and we're going to ignore the goaltenders completely. That's just not a subject. I'm going to talk about at this time.

How do we feel about the Connor Bedard and Macklin Celebrini of it all? Bringing a teenager like Celebrini would be spicy and that hasn't happened since like 1998. They're not going to be able to fit them both. I think it's... But Justin, do you take one at all? Yes. certainly try to get one on there for sure. Yeah.

You look at this. And who's the favorite though? Celebrini. He's done. He has a better track record. I think Connor Bredd's been excellent to start this year. I think he looks like the player we all expected him to become. Celebrini did it last year.

Celebrini's doing it this year. I think you look below the hood and you see the makings of a superstar. You're seeing a superstar. Not even the making. Screw it. Yeah. You're seeing a superstar player. You look at him on any given night what he can do in transition.

Look at the speed. Look at the creativity. look at the shot, the passing, every part of it. I don't think Bedard's done it consistently enough. And it's not to say that he won't this year. But if Celebrini doesn't slow down in the next month, I would pick him. I said 1998. That was the first time NHLers were allowed in the Olympics.

So like if we're actually having this discussion about like, he would be the first teenage NHL player to make Team Canada. They've never taken a teen. So as great as Celebrini is, and I agree, I would take him. also, we've talked about this before. Like he went to world championships when Bidar didn't, not to constantly pit them against each other, but like, come on, this isn't happening in a vacuum. Like, if you're going to take one, I take the kid who's already been taking faceoffs and

going to training camp with Sidney Crosby, but taking a teenager to the Olympics is, as much as he shouldn't be a long shot based on his play, it kind of is based on, again, the system. institution that we're dealing with here. I can't get the sequence leading up to that goal by Will Smith at the garden out of my head as it relates to Macklin-Cell-Labrini. Like he creates a shot in front. Puck kind of squirts out to the corner. He chases it down, wins a puck battle, finds Will Smith in the spot. Like that's the kind of stuff that the decision makers for Team Canada or whoever else,

are going to remember whenever it comes time to choose one over the other because that's the sort of stuff that you need from a fourth line player at the Olympics. God bless Connor Bedard. He was incredible on Tuesday night. We gas him up on the Wednesday show.

Like he's shown plenty. And he's shown a little bit more bite, I think, than we've seen in the past. But Celebrini's game is already such that unless you don't need him to be on a top six, you can say buddy go go play go play right wing on a fourth line and he and he's got the size and whatever else that it takes to really make that stand up so yeah i i we don't need to go into the

the pit pitting them against each other i i personally think it's fine because you know this is sports and we're allowed to like certain guys more than other guys like that's just kind of way it goes but i think as it relates as it relates to the uh to the to the Olympic roster man i like he's the dude 10 times out of 10 for me. I'm in. I'm all in. Let's go. Can I propose some players here then? I can't count fast live, so check me if I haven't said enough people. But here's like a Canadian forward group that can go to the Olympics. Anthony Sorrelli, this is an alphabetical order for the most part. That's not my first player on,

even though he's great. Anthony Sorrelli, Sidney Crosby, Brandon Hagel, Nathan McKinnon, Brad Marchon, Mitch Marner, Conna McDavid, Braden Point, Sam Reinhart, Mark Stone, Nick Suzuki, Tom Wilson, Maclin Celebrini. I think that's 13. It's not a hockey team I want to play against. No. Can we, who else? And then we have room for one more, like a Seth Jarvis or Schifley or Bennett or someone. Yeah, I like that.

And I think if you want versatility, you go for a Jarvis or potentially a Bennett over a Shifley. Yeah. But I like that a lot. Like those three for the last spot. Yeah. I like the idea of the young guys on there too, like changing of the guard in motion, right? Like you only have so many guys who are going to be able to play with Sidney Crosby because they miss many Olympic years. And I feel like something about that, it's like sticking with me like, okay, let these younger guys go.

How old do you think Seth Jarvis is? He's in his 20s. He's like 24. He's like 26. He is 23 years old. Okay. Younger guy. I was going to say he's either way younger or like older than I thought.

Yeah. Yep. That was the mustache or what? But like people think he's older than he is. We've simply built a team Canada that's a team Canada that's too powerful for my taste. I don't I don't care for this. We can look at the U.S. quickly here before we let Shane to go though. Like is there any other thought on the U.S. forwards?

Like the health of the control. Chuck Brothers is obviously a concern for the U.S. They're both out with injuries. Each likely will be back in the NHL before the Olympic break unless there's some crazier negative updates on the both of them. But like are they going to be as impactful as you would hope that they would be, especially when we talk about not we, us three, but a lot of people in the media and people in hockey like to talk about like that's going to be the secret sauce or the wild card.

for the Americans is that they have the kichucks who bring a different element to the table. So that's a concern for them. I'm not willing to take them off their roster at this point. No. They have to be healthy and they have to be generating offense. None of that stuff matters, whether it's the NHL or in international hockey or whatever. That stuff's nice.

It's popcorn to some extent, though. Like you need production. You need goals. draw maybe draw some penalties like if if that's not happening if it's just sideshow stuff and you know the the certain elements that we saw during the four nations tournament man like none of it none of it matters the good thing is like they're great hockey players that's the secret sauce for them is that is is that they have all the BS but they augment it with being elite elite elite elite hockey players so if you can't have one without the other and I think

the hope for the U.S. certainly has to be that they're capable bringing both by the time February rolls around. Do we cut Kreider, Nelson, and Trocheck off the U.S. roster after four nations? Yes. Yeah, I think... Are we comfortable? Oh, go ahead, Shana. Oh, no, I was just going to say, like, I think Kreider, like, he might be bouncing back this year, but you don't need it. I think Brock Nelson, like, I think you can find a little bit more up-tempo. You have too many utility guys, I feel like. I feel like Larkin and Miller are them right now. I think the only way you have a Nelson or Trocheque make it is if for some reason Miller doesn't,

and that just goes to like the injury conversation because unlike the Cachucks, he is playing through an injury and like it's holding him back. Like if he's actually good by then it's one thing. If he's not, I think a trocheque could replace him. I think a Nelson could easily replace him. So some ads we can play with here. We all agree. We want Cole Cofield. And we want Tage.

Mm-hmm. Goals. Do we, and then we're adding Clayton Keller. I mean, adding Clayton Keller. A must. What about Matthew Nyes?

Was he on the Four Nations roster? No. Oh, my God. Are we adding Matthew Nyes? I'm not there yet. If he didn't play for the Toronto mate believes, he wouldn't even be in consideration here. Yeah, I think that's kind of my feeling too.

And it's like, He's playing with Osse and Matthews right now. It's true. Like, he has one of the best centers in the world, and I'm, I'm not insulting his season, but I'm insulting. Don't you want to steal that? No, it's not good enough. I think there's better off. I rather see Matt Boldie get those prime minutes.

I rather see more Kyle Connor who, I don't know, can still score. Yeah, he's scoring goals right now. He looks pretty damn good, and I think his play driving's up too. Matt, Matt, Matt Pauley might have been their best forward at that tournament. He was incredible. Okay. So to wrap up, because this was a big forward conversation. Let's go U.S. forwards.

Count with me. We'll go Matt Boldie, Kyle Connor, Jack Eichol, Jack Hughes, Jake Gensel, Clayton Keller, Dylan Larkin, Austin Matthews. Are we keeping J.T. Miller? I think J.T. is going to make the team. Yeah, I think he's going to make the team. Okay, J.T. Miller, Brady Kach, Matthew Kachuk, T. Thompson, Cole Coughfield.

13. And now we have room for Matthew Nyes or Patrick Cain or one of the other old heads that we cut. I like that you try to drag me into another J.T. Miller debate. Too smart for that. No, he's there. He's the four seed in me. It'll never happen again. Put him as four seed.

Let Larkin Cook. Mm-hmm. Um. Do you take add Brock Nelson? back. I would be fine with that. I mean, I like Brock Nelson. I'm fine with that. Nelson or Nelson or Nelson or Nice. Patrick Kane. It's not bad to have the extra centers too because I think right now it's very clear like Jack Hughes is not going to be viewed as a center there probably shouldn't.

That's totally fine. And Tage Thompson is playing wing and he's playing much better. He's not a center. Yeah, I think other guys like a Miller you could shift back and forth, but I don't, I think having that extra center is not a bad thing. Okay. I think the Canada a forward sound more fun to me. Personally. Oh, what about goal tending? It's like frame removes. There's like a like someone pulls the pulls the plug.

We'll talk about that later, I guess. Some other time. Bennington will find himself again. Oh yeah. Bottom three goalie in the league right now. He'll turn it on when he needs to. He's going to take a stroll through Milan and be so inspired and feeling so patriotic. Yeah.

And he's going to stop every puck. and beach ball that comes near him, it's going to be great. And Connor Hellebuck will panic once he realized the stakes of the tournament, and Canada's going to win. Here's my hot take. It's going to be Jeremy Swamen that takes over for him. I love it. Love it. Jake Onder? I like Jay Gondier. I think it's going to be swimming. All right. Well, we've got 99 days to debate all this. Sorry we didn't get a chance to go into the defenders. feel like we should have just talked about this for the whole show.

That's my fault. I'm the host. It's been a while gassing up Clayton Keller. I have no beef with that. All right. Thanks, Shana. Thank you, guys. That's it.

We did it. Yeah, we did it. We're going to take a break. We're going to let Shana go and Sean and I come back. We're going to gas up Brad Marchand. I've had enough of these Americans. Let's talk about a nice Canadian boy. That's coming up.

next on the athletic hockey show. All right, welcome back to the athletic hockey show. A big chat with Shana Goldman off the top two segments. Now it's just Sean and I. Sean really quickly a big game to keep an eye on today. There's a ton on Thursday, but I think one of the big, big ones here, it's the Chicago Blackhawks and the Winnipeg Jets, Jonathan Taves playing against his former team for the first time since making his return

to the NHL and playing in his hometown, or for his hometown team, we should say, the Winnipeg Jets. That's obviously a big circle. What stands out to you about that game? I thought Laz did a great job of suning up on the site earlier this week. You know, just the idea of, it's funny, Tave seems like he's still kind of, he referred to the Blackhawks as we in his conversation with Lazz, which I thought was illustrative and kind of fascinating. I don't, I don't know if it's just something.

I'm getting, I'm getting soft as I get older, but, but these, these kind of moments, where, like, we're just the, the fact that Taves is, is in Winnipeg already is, is, is kind of poetic enough, but the fact that we're going to get these moments over the course of the next however many years of him, you know, these interactions that he has with the Blackhawks, when he goes back to Chicago, it's going to be something else entirely, right? Like, this is, this is something to track. And I think part of it is because Taves is a, is a thoughtful guy. And he's, and he's really transitioned into that.

that mode clearly, you know, not just, not just now, but towards the end of his time with it with Chicago. He's willing to be publicly, you know, thoughtful and in kind of, in kind of pensive. And I think that, you know, there's something to be said for that. And I think he's bringing a lot to the table with the way he's kind of approaching all this. So yeah, I, uh, I thought he said some really interesting stuff in the run up to this game. And I'm sure he's going to say more, you know, once it, once it's all over. And what's interesting is when he says the we, there's maybe two players left from the Blackhawks teams that he would call we. And that last had that in his story.

Connor Murphy and Jason Dickinson, those are the only Blackhawks left that Taves would have spent any significant amount of time with in his time with the organization. But when you spend so much time there, as much as there's all this like great hometown excitement for him to be in with. Winnipeg. He's jazzed about Kyle Conner's extension. First thing with hometown pride, there is still obviously a really long and meaningful connection with that franchise. And that's going to be obviously a really interesting game to watch for Winnipeg Jets fans, for Chicago Blackhawks fans, like people who grew up watching Taves at such an important part in his career, obviously a ton of success there. So it's going to be an interesting game. Yeah, we get to watch them for a few more months and figure out whether he's still good.

That's part of the fun too. All right. One final stick tap to end the show here, Sean, and it's going out to Brad Marshawn. There was a tweet on Wednesday from Panthers practice, no Brad Marshall on the ice. Very quickly, we caught wind online that Brad Marshall was not at practice because he is in Nova Scotia. He was in Nova Scotia on Wednesday. to cover for coach J.P. McCallum after the loss of his daughter. So the Florida Panthers allowed Brad Marchon to go and coach this U-18 major hockey league team for this coach who just lost his daughter.

Just an incredible show of support and friendship from Brad Marchon to this team, to his community. Just wanted to end the show with a stick tap to Brad and the Panthers. for saying, yeah, we're in the middle of season. Skip a skip practice, it's fine. This is more evidence of Brad Marchand, like, finding a way to tap emotional wells that I think people didn't, weren't, weren't expecting or 10 years ago. A few had said this kind of thing happened.

I think publicly people would have been shocked, but we've seen it from him a couple times over the last week or so. The first time was him going back to Boston and him, you know, having one of the most emotional displays you're ever going to see on a, on a hockey rink ahead of that game. And now we see him going back and doing something special for someone close to him. Yeah, it's quite a story. And I know, I know there should be some more stuff on the site about this.

If the story interests you, I think we got you covered there moving forward because it really is, it's something to be celebrated and something to be, something to be gassed up. And he deserves, he deserves whatever credit he gets for all this. And J.P. McCallum, who was the coach who lost. his daughter is a close personal friend of Marchand. This is on a story from the Daily Faceoff. I'm reading right now. They have worked together in the off season during training.

They've coached various levels of pro. JP has coached various levels of hockey. And there's a statement from the league president in Halifax as well. Quote, this gesture reflects the true spirit of the hockey community in Nova Scotia, one built on compassion, loyalty, and connection that extends far beyond the rank. our thoughts are with JP, his loved ones, and the entire Hunter's organization. And the game on Wednesday is going to feature the hunters.

That's the team JP coaches taking on the Halifaz Max's. Max. And it's going to be a fundraiser to support the family, one of Marshall's jerseys, a Raffle Prize during the game. There's an online donation link as well. So, Sean, you put it, put it nicely, just like a really beautiful gesture by a guy who's showing that deeper well, then people make. maybe thought when everyone was hating him and calling him a rat.

Yeah. People still do. And these kids get to say that they were coached by Brad Marchand. Pretty cool. Exactly. All right. That's our stick tap to end the show. Thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show.

Thanks to Shana Goldman for joining us. Sean, thank you. Thanks to producer Jeff. The Prospect Boys have the day off tomorrow. Las and Jesse Granger have the next show on Monday. It's going to be a later end-the-day release. because of the West Coast. Let Jesse sleep until like 8 a.m. Pacific.

You know, it's fine. We can all wait. I would never. Move to a superior time zone, Granger. When I lived in Pallory, I made Mendez wait. I was like, I'm not waking up really for this. I'm sorry. Checks out.

I'm on mountain time. Checks out. You need to rearrange your schedule around me. Sean and I are going to be maybe back next Thursday. I'm traveling. You'll find out then. Stuck with me in the meantime. Thank you.