The Athletic Hockey Show - Calder Trophy debate: Kaprizov vs. Robertson, Canucks catch-up with The VANcast, Multiple Choice Madness, and more

Episode Date: April 26, 2021

First, Ian and Hailey discuss Artem Anisimov’s Sens goaltending debut that never was over the weekend after Matt Murray, Anton Forsberg, and Marcus Hogberg went down with injuries, the tightening Calder Trophy race between the Wild’s Kirill Kaprizov and the Star’s Jason Robertson, Hailey’s broken toe, and more.Then, the hosts of The Athletic’s The VANcast podcast, Jeff Paterson and Thomas Drance, join the show to talk about the possibility of the Canucks becoming Canada’s team this season after their well-documented COVID-19 outbreak, the feeling around the team right now, Benning Bros vs. Bitter Bros, offseason outlook, and much more.Plus, Ian, Hailey, Jeff, and Thomas run through a series of Multiple Choice Madness questions to close out the show.And, don’t forget, you can sign up for an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $3.99 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back. It's another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. I'm Ian Mendez, co-hosting this episode with Haley Salvia. And ahead on this edition of the podcast, we'll chat about this suddenly contentious Calder Trophy race. Artemisimov put on the goalie gear. He was ready to step into an NHL game on the weekend. We'll chat about that bizarre sequence of events. The VanCast guy stopped by. Thomas Strance, Jeff Patterson.

Talk about the Canucks suddenly being. in the playoff picture in the North Division. As always, we'll have a little multiple choice madness, including a question about who's got the firmest grasp on an individual postseason trophy right now. But that's the perfect place to start because I'm starting to feel like maybe Haley Salvean's going to get some love for the Masterton trophy in Calgary,

because there was some perseverance, there was some dedication on the weekend for you. Haley Salvean, let's talk about what happened to you. and the pain you went through just to cover a game on the weekend. It's so funny because I don't think I've ever been the person to like stub their toe and be actually in pain. But it finally happened to me. It happened on Saturday. I got up too fast from my couch, hit the toe right on my marble coffee table.

and it hurt more than, well, I was like, oh, no. And after a while, it continued to hurt, so I actually iced it. And that's when I made the tweet of, like, I think I'm going to be a game time decision here. And, but I made it. I did persevere through the toe. You know, I got home from the rink and that is when I realized that the toe was. probably broken because it was definitely the wrong shade of blue and probably bigger than it needed to be.

I'm sorry, is there a right shade of blue at some point? Probably not when you're talking about a part of your, you know, your toe or whatever. So yeah, so that was super fun. I was very proud of the online community for not asking for pictures. We didn't get any, any weirdos. asking for photo evidence of the foot. So that was probably the best part of this whole experience. But I think it's probably broken.

I don't think it should be this size or color still. Okay, can I ask, let me ask you a question here. We're now 48 hours out from you potentially busting your toe. Is COVID kind of like the reason why you're not seeking like some medical assessment here? Like what, like to me? I'm not going to the hospital. No, I'm not going to the hospital or the doctor and being like, excuse me, I stub my toe really hard. But no, but is it because of the situation in the world?

Like, if we are in a quote-unquote normal times and you think you have a broken toe, you're not, you're saying you're not going to the doctor? No. What are they going to do? Really? Don't put pressure on your toe. Like, you can't do something for a broken toe. You're tougher.

I mean, we always knew you were tougher than me, but look at you. Like, just got to get out. The people on Twitter being like adding grit to your resume. That's playoff hockey, baby. Like, this is my playoffs. Seriously? Getting to the rink with my busted toe. And it was one of those moments too at the rank where I was like,

you have that moment of realization when, and I'm sure you've had this because Brian Reynolds follows you on Twitter. But you have that moment after you tweet something really stupid. And you're like, oh, God, look at the people who follow me on this stupid app. And I'm talking about stubbing my toe so hard that I might stay home today. One of the pro scouts here in Calgary. He's an away scout. He's a scout for a different team.

But he came over to me and he's like, don't go stubbing your toe today, Haley. And I was like, oh, crap. It's definitely broken. Glad you see me talking about my foot on the internet. That was one of those moments where I was like, Yeah. What was the tweet that you sent and immediately was like, oh my God, I hope Ryan Reynolds doesn't see this. I do think about that from time to time. I think like, man, like, what if this just comes up in his feed? And he's like, oh, he's like, oh, okay. Ian Mendez, you weirdo.

Yeah. Like, did, like, did he see my story on Artemisimov come through his, like, his feed this weekend? Like, I think about that from time to time. What does he think? Right. Who could be, you know, a good goalie? Could he be a good goalie? What does he think? Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool? Yeah, maybe.

Okay, you know what? This is the perfect segue to this. Because Haley, this was quite this story. So for the fans who don't quite realize how this played out on the weekend, as most people know, you have three goalies now in the COVID world. You carry three, two on your roster, one on the taxi, just in case something happens. And you don't, so you can't do the David Ayer's Zamboni driver goalie anymore because the COVID protocols, you've got to be within the team's bubble.

In a strange two hours span on Saturday, the Ottawa senators lost two goalies and almost lost the third. And we were like, what would have happened? Because Anton Forsberg got hurt in the pregame warmup. Matt Murray got hurt in the second period. And on his very first shot that he saved, Marcus Hogberg got knocked down by Nikita Zytezhev. And for a second, he's lying down. We're like, oh my gosh, what would happen?

Well, after the game, DJ Smith tells us, Artemisimov was dressed and ready to go. We were like, wait, what? Artemisimov? And so just like when you said, you know, people were like, oh, a picture, it didn't happen with my foot. People were like, okay, a picture it didn't happen with Artimimov. And sure enough, he put some pictures on Instagram, like,

on a, like on a, kind of on a weird level, how much would you have, Again, we're not wishing for injuries on anybody, but there was a morbid curiosity factor. How much would you have enjoyed, Haley, seeing Artemisimov play some, you know, 10 minutes, 15 minutes of an NHL game as a goalie? Well, having covered the sense and most people who listen probably know

that I came from Ottawa from last year, and knowing Artemisimov a little bit, like he's the guy in the room who is pretty low-key, like one of the funnier, really well-liked guys in that room. Like, Artie has, you know, a good personality. And I know that the guys in Ottawa really like him. And I think it was Mark Borviyatki who said, like, Anisimov is probably the funniest guy who was in that room last year.

So I'm sure he probably would have hammed it up a bit, which I saw a little bit on his Instagram and he even used the hashtag Artie goalie, which I thought was funny. I would have been interested to see, knowing Artemisima, of in that he had multiple, multiple hip and groin injuries last year as a forward. Yeah. This is a guy who would go down in the butterfly and probably not get up. And I don't think that would have great entertainment value. I think it would, you know, be quite unfortunate.

Because even in the video he posts on Instagram me and I don't know if you caught this, but he went down and got up and went, ow. He made a weird noise. It was an ow. It was a grunt and there was a struggle there. So, and that was just, I don't even think he was on skates yet. Like, he's just standing there in the hallway and the pads. So I think it probably would have been pretty hilarious seeing him in net.

Because correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know the last time, if ever a forward had to go in and play goal. it would have been pretty funny until like a potential injury because I can't imagine he was very and tapped with the proper hip opening warmups and how to do the splits and stuff before that moment. I'm sure I think it was Forsberg who was helping him put on the gear like a like a proud dad. I'm sure he probably would have given him some good warm up techniques, but I thought it was pretty funny. Sorry, so you're looking for warm up techniques from the goalie who just got hurt in warmups, right? He was helping him put the pads on.

Oh, yeah. I know. Maybe don't ask for his advice. Yeah, exactly. But here's the, everything comes full circle. And Chicago fans will remember this. In fact, I think hockey fans will remember this.

2018, the Blackhawks have the same situation before them. A couple of goalies get injured. And they have to call a full-time accountant and part-time goalie Scott Foster. Comes in and plays for Chicago, closes out the last few minutes of a game against the Winnipeg Jets. Here's the funny thing. And I mentioned this in my article Saturday night and then some really astute athletic subscribers pointed this out to me in the comment section. So I pointed out that, man, it's crazy.

Artemisimov played in that game for Chicago where Scott Foster was the goalie. But here's the crazy. But here's no, that's where I thought it was funny. But here's the crazier thing. The reason why Scott Foster played that game? Anton Forsberg got hurt in the warmups. Like, what is going on here? Like, what a crazy coincidence.

These would be the questions to ask those guys. Yes. By the way, Artemisimov not made available to the media in Ottawa since this happened. That's another story for another day. In fact, I'd like to, we should do a segment called That's Another Story for Another Day where we just air our grievances in a very passive-aggressive way. And then just move on from it immediately. Yeah.

Anyway, that's another. story for another day. But, okay, so I think all these people had a hard time picturing Artemisimov. Like, I have a hard time picturing any NHL player, like, in the role of goaling. Like, is there anybody, if I said to you, Haley, whether it's somebody like Calgary or another team, can you picture one guy putting on the pads and playing goal right now in the NHL? Honestly, I saw that you put that in our little rundown when I was doing, you know, my little prep for the show. And I was like, I don't know. There was, I even Googled like, NHL forward who could

play goal. Like, I was looking for like tall, kind of lanky players. I don't, I don't know. Like, if there's a guy who's really tall, like has really long arms, probably. No, but you can't pictures of Dano Chara as a goalie. No. No. I guess tall isn't the right criteria. But it's, It's just such a unique thing. Like, I just don't think being a goalie is a thing that you go out and do. The one that came to mind was probably somebody like Sidney Crosby because he's such like a crazy athlete that he would probably go in and be like very aggressive and intense and maybe you do okay.

And I'm pretty sure his dad was a goalie and his sister's a goalie. So maybe he's got a little bit of, you know, maybe he knows how to throw the blocker up or the glove up. I don't know, can drop down into the butterfly. But that was the only thing I could think of just because he's such an intense person that maybe he could just translate that aggressiveness into net. Yeah, I don't know. That's a tough one.

I know. Listen, we'd love to hear from our listeners too. Like, if you could picture one player in the NHL that could actually go in and like it wouldn't look that odd or like, you know, I could wrap my head around. Like I always think of like defensive, defensemen who block shots, would they be good? Could they be a goalie?

Like, it's just a super stay at home. Just dive onto the ice all the time. Like, just stay at home defense. Like, back of the day, there was all these like shot blocking defensemen. Like, there was, Craig Ludwig was a guy that used to just block shots and people would be like, oh, it's like having an extra goalie out there. And I wonder, like, would that type of defensemen? And I know that they're not as many kind of traditional stay at home, just kind of

shot blocking defenseman, but would that fit the prototype? Maybe. What? So do you think like Mark Giordano could be a goalie? Yeah. Like I could see him blocking the shots, right? It does. GEO and,

he's pretty fearless that way, isn't it? Yeah. Actually, you know what? Chris Tannav would fit the bill even better. Chris Tannab would be your classic kind of shot blocking guy or, you know, who am I thinking? Or even like, I mean, he just. retired, but like a guy, remember Ryan Callahan when he played, like, he used to just dive all over

the place and do, like, guys that would be willing to sacrifice their bodies to block a shot, I feel like, there you go, Mark Borvietzky. Guys like that, I think, could maybe do it. Yeah. Do you remember last year in Ottawa when he blocked like two or three shots in a row and then got the empty net goal as he's like limping off the ice? Yeah. That's goalie.

That's a goalie play. That's a goalie. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, we'd love to hear from our listeners on if you could picture anybody and maybe even past or present, right? Like there might be some players in the past that you're like, that guy would have made a great goalie back in the day. But anyway, we'd love to hear from people.

Last week, things got a little bit heated, Haley, in the Calder Trophy conversation. And I think a lot of people figured Kareel Caprizova, the Minnesota Wild had this sucker locked down, like about three weeks ago, four weeks ago. it felt like it was a one-man race. And now here comes Jason Robertson of the Dallas Stars. And, you know, it was a great back and forth this week on the Athletic with, hey, who should win the Calder Trophy? It turned into quite a battle, I think, on social media. And I think you've got something ready to come out of Haley's hot takery oven.

Okay? This is where you got to put on oven mitts because this take is going to be so hot. So here we go. What's your feeling on the Calder Trophy race right now? Who gets it for you? I mean, I personally, and I'm dialing this back because hot takes, I don't want to, I don't know. I, like I have this opinion about it, but I don't want to get yelled at on Twitter about it. So I'm not going to make it a super hot take.

I'm going to try to be level headed here. So I get the same response back from people. Please don't yell at me. I'm fragile. No, I'm just kidding. It's fine. I have a broken toe and I'm doing the podcast. But for me, you know, I think that there is no question that what Kareel Caprizov has done this season.

Like some of the goals this guy has scored have been so impressive. You know, he's leading the Minnesota Wild in goals right now. You know, again, you just watch the wild play and, you know, We know that Domloos Chishin talks about it all the time. Like that's his favorite team now. And he seems to love Kareil Kaprizov. And, you know, a lot of people have certainly caught on. And again, you know, I think he still continues to be the frontrunner for the Calder.

But my, and I guess my question to you too, Ian, because I want to know your opinion on this instead of me just like ranting about it. But where do you stand on naming somebody who has six years of KHL experience as the rookie of the year? year. I understand that the eligibility is 25 and under. It's your first year in the National Hockey League. He checks both those boxes. He just turned 24 years old today. He has six years of KHL experience. This is a player who got the KHL, a rookie of the week award in 2014-15. So that was his professional rookie season in Russia was 2014-15. He was drafted in 2015. This is a guy who's been in the professional game for six years.

So to me, when you see that body of work and you see that he was the leading score in the KHL last year, like he won the KHL scoring race with around 33 goals, this is not a, you know, it's no question that he came into the National Hockey League and has played well. well against men because he's been doing it since he was teenager. Almost, yeah, teenager. So that's where I struggle with this. And I'm not saying that they should change the eligibility. I think we don't want to make things even more restrictive because it's already,

you got to be a 25 and under, you've got to be your first year. And adding in the whole, you know, you can't have played in a top tier. European League will add a bunch of different layers to it too of, okay, well, what's top tier? is it, you know, just the KHL, is it, is it Germany? Is it Sweden, et cetera, et cetera? What levels are we talking about? I just think for me, if I was a voter this year, if I had a ballot this year, that is something that would seriously be taking into consideration because Jason Robertson doesn't even have a full year of professional experience under his belt. He played in the American Hockey League last year and that season got shortened due to COVID. And he's coming out and he's giving Caprazov a real challenge for the Calder.

in the fact that he is more of a legitimate, fresh rookie in the NHL, to me, makes me consider him as a better candidate because this is his first time playing against men at this level. Okay. So first of all, I probably oversold the hot takery there. That was, you know, it's a fairly reasoned approach from you. A very reasonable. No Evan Mitz needed. And so, yeah, no, exactly. You can take this out with like a paper towel. It's, it's okay. So here's where I come down on this. So was there this type of, uh, rumbling and grumbling when Artemmy Panarin won the award. I think so, though. Like, okay, maybe a little bit, but it seems, maybe, and maybe I'm just having forgetfulness here. But, you know, Panarin pretty much checks the same boxes.

He was 24, had those seasons, the KHL, came, which is dynamite playing with Patrick Kane in that first season with Chicago, and he won the called a trophy. Where I come down on this is, look, I actually agree with all you're saying, and I really like, it was Gordon Miller of TSN on the weekend, had an interesting tweet and a proposal saying, I think if you have played 250 professional games elsewhere,

you shouldn't be eligible for the Calder. And that's like, you know what? That's a reasonable approach. 250 games elsewhere as a pro. But here's the thing. That rule is not in place right now. And I'm not sure that Carreal Caprisoff should be penalized for the loophole.

If we want to close the loophole, let's close the loophole. But we can't do it in the middle of the season. I think that's wrong. And so to hold the, that against Caprizov seems unfair, especially when Panera and won the award with essentially the same credentials. But I do agree with a lot of what you're saying. I do. And I think there's there's some merit to it. The other thing I'd like to see is I know, like, in Ottawa, a guy like Tim Stozel is 19 years old. Okay. And you know what I'd like to see, Haley? I'd like to see

the NHL have a, and I'm going to go ahead and use the Dale Howard Chuck Memorial Trophy for the best teenager in the NHL. And, you know, Dale Howard Chuck was a guy that had one, maybe the best 18 year old season in the history of the NHL. And unfortunately, of course, we lost Dale Howard Chuck last year. And I think it would be a wonderful way to honor his legacy. And also, you know, tip of the hat to a guy like Tim Stutzler, who's coming in at 19 or there's some other teenagers in the NHL. And it's a little tougher for them to break in, but maybe recognize how hard it is to be a teenager in the NHL. So I would say, If I'm going in the future starting next year, I'd like to see maybe you use the Gord Miller approach of if you've played 250 pro games elsewhere, you're not eligible.

And also let's start the Dale Howardchuck Memorial Trophy for the best teenager in the league. And sometimes maybe that teenager also wins the Calder, but often that won't be the case. But I'd love to see that. Yeah. I mean, I think that's awesome. Personally, I don't even think you need to make the Calder even more restrictive. because again, then it's, okay, so we're saying 250 games of pro somewhere else, but, you know, what about some of these pro leagues who aren't giving you the same professional

experience as the KHL? I think that's where it gets a little too muddy. There's too many side conversations. Like, you know, two, he played six seasons in the KHL. That's not the same as playing six seasons in, you know, the second tier Swedish professional league. Like that player is probably still going to have a little bit of difficulty translating to the National Hockey League. And Tim Stutzel played a season professional in the DEL. That's not the same as playing in the KHL for that long. So I think that's where it gets muddy. So for me, I just think it's probably not a restriction that you have to make,

but I just think it's a consideration for people who have ballots this year. And I had a ballot last year. I don't have one this year because of, you know, the division. realignment that they've done with the voting. Every beat only has one or two votes and I just got here. So I don't have my vote this year. But I think if I did have a ballot and I mean, I take voting very seriously. So that is a really strong consideration that I would make.

And I don't think that it's penalizing Carrillo Caprizo for having that experience. I think it's great. I don't want to discount what he's done this season at all. Like I said, some of the goals he scored are incredible. Like, this is a player. He's very, very skilled, very talented, and he's going to do great things with the Minnesota Wild, I'm sure.

I just don't know if, for me, voting on the Calder Trophy, I would say this guy, for sure. And he'd still be on my ballot, too. I'm not saying like I'm leaving him off. I'm just saying that when you put what Jason Robertson's doing, and when you put him up against each other, you know, Jason Robertson has 37 points, Caprizov is 41.

Even to a lesser extent, Josh Norris, who is, again, you know, he had the Belleville senators last year. He has 30 points. He's a little bit below them. But, you know, I would look at what those guys are doing and I'd weigh the fact that they don't have that many professional games under their belt. They're 21 years old. They're more recent draft picks. I would, you know, weigh what they're doing a little bit heavier than what Caprizov's done. You know, and the only thing is we wrap up this portion of the conversation, the only thing that

I always get pretty disappointed in. And this goes for all of us is whenever there's a debate, whether it's for an individual trophy or the Hall of Fame, it turns into this kind of nasty thing where you kind of end up, you end up tearing down players instead of talking about their good attributes, right? Like with Caprizov, it's, oh, he's an old man. And, you know, it's just, you know what? Carrillo Caprizov is a terrifically talented young player with the Minnesota Wild.

And sometimes that gets lost in these arguments is that people get so hell-bent on destroying the other person rather than building up a case for their own person. So that would be my only quam with this whole thing. All right, Haley. Every week we're so pleased to be joined by a variety of guests on the Athletic Hockey Show podcast. And now we've got the host of their own podcast.

It's the VanCast guys, Jeff Patterson, Thomas Drans, gentlemen. I guess good morning to you because you're out on the West Coast. How are you guys doing today? Doing all right. Thanks for having us, Ian. Excited to join the program. It's weird for me to hear Jeff Patterson's full name. Like he's just J. Pat to me.

I know he's just J. Pat. You know, I'm going to have to recover from that and still put in a good effort here. But otherwise doing pretty well. I'm doing well. I'm just plotting a strategy for this podcast because I have a tough time getting a word in Edgewise when it's just me and Drans. And so to have two others involved here, I'm not quite sure how this is going to go. No, this is perfect.

You know, Drants and I are both warriors. I'm going to milk this. I stub my toe really hard on the weekend. So I also have, you know, battled back through this. And I'm probably going to take this opportunity for the fact that there's four people here to not do a lot in the next 20 minutes.

So you can have my airtime, Jeff. So, okay, I just quick question for the two of you guys. If you suspected you had a broken toe, Would you go to the doctor? Yes or no? I would because I learned a really difficult lesson as a parent. Oh no. Don't scare me.

I took my son public skating. This is about five years ago. He was probably like five or six years old. And he went down hard and like braced himself with his one arm and came up and he was crying and complaining that he was in all sorts of pain. And I didn't doubt that that was the case. But he could move his fingers. And so me being an amateur doctor, I told him everything was fine.

and that night it didn't get any better. And I said, okay, well, if, you know, if it's still sore in the morning, I'll take you to the hospital. Took him to the hospital in the morning, broken wrist. So, yeah, I would suggest if you think that you have broken bones, you should probably seek out medical attention. The problem with toes, though, is they can't do anything. You can't, like, put a cast on a toe. So it kind of just has to heal, you know, for a broken toe, like if I thought I broke my toe, I would just sort of gutted out, unfortunately.

Yeah, I have to, you know, change what shoes I wear. I couldn't wear my loafers to the rink. Couldn't fit. Couldn't fit. And it's going to be a lot of upper body days. Or the gym. Skipping leg day. It's got to skip leg day for the next.

No cardio, no legs, all upper body for the next week while I recover. In honor of Chris Tannaven, it's yours here in Vancouver, just wear a walking boot. to the rink. He did that? Every season. Kind of lived in a walking boot. Like, was he actually hurt, or he would just wear it to keep everything? Okay.

I was like, I missed something here. Always be blocking shots, spent a lot of time on the shelf, unfortunately. That's the type of warrior he is, you know, clearly in a different league than Haley and I. Okay. Let's chat about the connects here for a second, guys. And it's the, I saw your piece today. It's the 10-year anniversary of the Slay the Dragon goal, right? Alex Burroughs and the giveaway from, you know,

one of my favorite guys in the sport, Chris Campoli, you know, gave that puck away. The Canucks went, now 10 years ago, the Vancouver Canucks were arguably the most hated team in hockey. They somehow made the Boston Bruins lovable 10 years ago. Now, as we sit here today, I ask you guys the question. I think we're all pulling for the Vancouver Canucks. Those of us who are on the outside look again, love the story, love the perseverance. Here's my question to both of you guys. And maybe, you know, I keep wanting to call it.

I want to call him by his full name, but I can't. It's just J-Pat. Maybe we'll let him go first. Can the Vancouver Canucks actually be Canada's team this year? Oh, in an all-Canadian division, I think that's a hard no. because four Canadian teams are going to make the playoffs. So you've got four fan bases that are in. We know that one is getting out of the division.

So are people rooting for this team that was down for the count because of COVID? Yeah, I think I can understand. Maybe some people throw in a little bit of love their way that way. But in terms of, I don't think the Canucks will ever, ever be Canada's team. So I'm going to take a hard know on that. I think the Canucks can be Canada's team to get into the playoffs. playoffs, right? Like, I think for the next three weeks, there might be an interest in seeing, you know, Montreal sort of keep this up and, you know, Calgary. I mean, I think there's,

there's a lot of skepticism about that team just in general. So I think, I think you could see from your average, you know, uninterested Canadian fan base or hockey fan, some interest in seeing the Canucks pull off something incredible down the stretch and backing into the playoffs. But once the playoffs start, Canada's team is whoever's playing the Maple Leafs. So I suppose if they were to find a way in, they would then be Canada's team for at least another couple of weeks. But thereafter, I think no. And certainly once they got to the final four, like here's the other thing, is the closer any

Canadian team gets to the Stanley Cup, the more intense and unfair, by the way, the criticism from other Canadian fan bases will be. no one wants to see another fan, another team raise the cup when their team hasn't. Like every team wants their team to end the 26 year streak. No other team will do, no matter what, the closer any Canadian team gets,

the more intense the scrutiny and sort of the moral, the morality play for why they are not deserving of ending the streak will be. That's my prediction here. Except for, or do you guys, and I like the fact that we have somebody from Ottawa, you know, Calgary, Vancouver here.

Except for Winnipeg. I feel like if Winnipeg won the cup, I wouldn't be full of rage. I'd be like, ah, you know what? They lost their team for like a decade

or 15 years and they got it back. I don't really hate the Winnipeg Jets. I wouldn't really have a problem if they won the Stanley Cup. Or am I completely off on that? And that's kind of like, at least rage is like a passion. I just be like, yeah.

I just, like, I agree with you. I mean, look, Personally, I wouldn't be mad to see any Canadian team. Like, I'd love to see McDavid win a cup. I think it would be great to see the Maple Leafs are rewarded for the approach that they've taken.

You know, I don't think it's necessarily that anyone will be mad. It's just that as Winnipeg gets closer to the cup, you're going to see things like, Pierre-Luc Dubois dirty. That'll be out of the Ontario, people out of Ontario, right? And you'll see things like, you can't win a cup without defensemen. Like, no way, a team with Neil Pionk is their number one will win. like you're still going to see that scrutiny. You know, Blake Wheeler, I like his Twitter takes too much.

You know, F that guy. Like, you're going to see that sort of thing arise. For sure, that's just, I think that's how we're wired at this point. And that's totally okay. It'll make it that much sweeter for the one fan base that does eventually get to root for the end of the streak or enjoy the end of the streak. That's just like sports fandom to a T. And I know, Drans, you'll like this one because you seem to be a big fan of Matt Kachuk. We're on the trade Matthew Kutuck train a little bit here because he's had a bit of a difficult season.

That's where the scrutiny's at here. He's got like 10 goals, 31 points. And people are like, he's not going to be worth a $9 million qualifying offer. Got a conundrum here. Got to get rid of him probably. Got to have to think about what to do next with Matthew Kuchuk. Straight up for Ralee Levy. Straight up for O'Leo Levy.

Have you seen the stretch passes, Haley? They're amazing. No, the, yeah, look, Matthew Kachuk, the thing about a $9 million player is two, three years from now, we don't even know what that's going to look like, right? Like we're getting, we got news from the sports business journal as we began recording, for example, that NBC is out on the B rights or on the bidding for the NHL television

rights. We still don't know what the NHL's B rights are going to come in at, but it certainly looks like they're going to four or five acts their U.S. broadcast revenue hall. And so once we get through this like gully, uh, to use a very, uh, weird term, but this gully of HRR debt that the players have accrued this season, you know, just the ESPN side of the deal alone is going to have three and a half million dollar inflationary impact on the upper limit. If they're able to double that with their B&C rights here with, you know, presumably Fox and maybe someone else, you know, we could see a seven, six and a half, seven million dollar impact. Plus, you know, in a world where two, three years down the line, that debt's paid off and the buildings are full again, you know, we could see the cap take a massive like 10 plus million dollar leap all of a sudden one summer. And what you're going to see is huge halls of money being thrown around as a result of that for.

players that are a lot worse than Matthew Kachuk, right? So Matthew Kachuk at 9 million might seem like a hefty haul one year out, but there's a very good possibility that two, three years out, that's looked at as like market rate for a top six forward. And Matthew Kachuk is a as a top line forward. So, you know, just, it's just weird to sort of peg that. But yeah, Matthew Kachuk, um, as a as a trade candidate or a non-tender candidate, I'm sure that's news for, you know, good news for 29 other NHL teams around the league. All right. You know, one of the things I wanted to hit on here with you guys,

and J. Pat, maybe I'll start with you on this, is people, Koducks fans being so angry right now, they're renting planes, flying a fire betting banner around the lower mainland. Like, honestly, what's the feeling there in that market? I know it's a passionate market. What's the feeling of Vancouver fans right now? Ah, that's a loaded question,

because there are two clear factions here. They've been labeled the Benning Bros and the Bitter Bros. And they are constantly at war on Twitter. And these were the Bitter Bros that decided to buck up and rent this plane and fly the banner that said Fire Benning. I joke that really after the 3-0 lost to the Sends the other night, I thought maybe the airspace over Vancouver would be cluttered with Fire Benning planes.

That didn't happen. Perhaps it's pandemic-related. Whatever the case. look, Kinnock's Twitter is a thing in and of itself, right? Like, you just have to accept that it's a unique fan base, and it's all borne out of the frustration of 50-plus years without a Stanley Cow. Right? Like, the banning brothers, they believe in this GM,

and this core group that he's put together here. The other side says, it's been seven years. We had the GM a couple of weeks ago tell us two more years for his plan to come together. other. And in Jim Benning's time, they've qualified for the playoffs once. They have been invited to the playoffs one other time. That was last year. And once they got into the expanded tournament, they did some good things. And they were led by that core group. And you could see sort of some signs of the future. But let's be honest, at the completion of play when COVID originally struck, the Kinnocks were a bubble team. They were right on the playoff bar. They weren't training the right

way and there was no guarantee with 13 games to go in their season that they were even going to get to the playoffs. So they benefited from the invite to the expanded tournament and then from there, they were able to get on a little bit of a run and take out of Minnesota, the defending Stanley Cup champs in St. Louis and give Vegas a pretty good fight, even though they got outplayed. But no, I mean, it's constant amusement if you sit on the sidelines and just watch these two factions go at it and occasionally, you know, just for amusement, you kind of have to wait into the battle from time to time as well. Stir the pot a little bit.

It doesn't take a whole lot to get either side riled up. So this is an interesting point in time, though, because of what this team has been through these last three weeks and the fact that they've come out of COVID and won three of four and these teams that they're chasing are sort of sputtering a little bit. And so, look, all people want in this city is a winning hockey club. And it's just a constant debate about how they're going to get there.

And, you know, is this the year that they're going to author this incredible story from, you know, being down for the count from COVID to, you know, hustling to make the playoffs. Time will tell on that front. But, you know, the bottom line is there are two camps and they both got a distinct view of what the Canucks are doing and how ultimately the Canucks are going to get to where they need to be. I think I saw something on Twitter.

It was a screenshot and it was like side by side things trending. And one was like Fire Benning and the other one was Thank You Jim. And I don't know if the Thank You Jim was actually Jim Benning, but I think someone post it was like experience Canucks hockey. It was Boston. It was Boston Pizza. Boston Pizza was thanking Jim for living. Oh, no. Yeah.

But, but, but of course, Canucks Twitter seized on the opportunity and probably amplified it further by being, you know, by noting the hilarity that they were, that they were trending side by side. So thank you, Jim is a bit of a meme too in the Vancouver market. And, uh, and when Boston pizza used the hashtag for a competition, giving away a $50. gift card to share your favorite Jimtra living on Dragon's Den moment the very same day that Canucks fans had firebending trending. That's like that's the type of opportunity that Connux Twitter is way too wise, way too streetwise to miss. That's so funny. That makes it that makes it fun

though. Like the Sends fan base is hilarious. The Sends Sikko stuff is so funny. The Sends fan base is that the Canucks have cutouts right now, fan cutouts and people have put up their dogs and put up their kids and done some funny things. But like, I'm really disappointed that we don't have a full section of Mark Messiers. I feel like the Sends fan base, they would have already bought like a whole section of Mark Messier eating like Lays chips. And maybe there's a quality control element. Maybe the Kineks aren't letting the Mark Messier applications through the sensors or whatever.

But boy, do I regret that. Like, I feel like for sure since Twitter would have been all over. a bunch of Mark Messiers behind the penalty box. Yeah, 100%. They've leaned into the whole the sickos thing out here in Ottawa. So let's talk a little bit too about like where things are,

and I think, Drans, you're reporting, especially around all the COVID stuff. I think it was really important. You know, I think that type of reporting, it's critical, right? Transparent, honest reporting about what's going on with the Canucks. And one of the things that came out was

you could tell that there's palpable anger kind of with the players and the way things were handled. So let me ask both of you guys this question. When we get to the off season, wherever that is, might be in three weeks from now, maybe it's in two months from now. Can I actually have an off season. Is there going to be some sort of, I don't know, air clearing

or something that has to happen between the players and then upper levels of management and ownership here and kind of feel like there's a fence that needs to be mended, guys? I think it's complicated, but I do think that there's at least a couple instances where that is going to be the case. And I do think the fallout from this could be relatively wide-ranging. You know, I've been choosing my words really carefully here, but I do think that there's some, you know, an overall, I think overall, when you look at what the Canucks have experienced since

leaving the bubble, right? And there was the departures of Tanev and Tafoli and Markstrom and Troy Stetcher. And I think there was a bad taste left in the mouths of a lot of those players. And I think a lot of, you know, the core group from, from that, then you sort of stretch into this season. You've got an unsigned coaching staff. You've got some communication issues that sort of surrounded the COVID situation. You know, I do think you're at a point where there will be some fence mending with some pretty key veteran pieces on this team, you know, or else something more dramatic. So I am curious to see. I do think this is going to have a long tail in terms of how it shapes Vancouver. approach to this off-season.

So, yeah, no, I mean, I do think that this is a complicated situation. And all of that said, you know, now that they're facing, what, it's an eight-point deficit with five games in hand on the Montreal Canadiens, the one weird thing about sports, as we all know, is winning is kind of like magic. It cures everything. So could the conversation, as I see it, perhaps shaping up when the off-season begins, change significantly? should the Canucks win or lose a ton down the stretch, for sure.

I think a lot is going to be contingent on how this team performs. And there's an awful lot that this club has to get sorted. And none of it was made simpler by how this season played out, whether that's the coaching staff or second contracts for Hughes or Patterson and on and on down the line. It is going to be a fascinating high leverage offseason for the Canucks. Yeah, I mean, it was pretty clear from the words of J.T. Miller and not even the world. I mean, just the body language, you could feel sort of the emotion. And it was extraordinary to listen to a player, you know, pour out his heart, just talking about

the dangers of coming back, the lack of readiness and preparation. And look, communication has been an issue, and messaging has been an issue for this hockey club for a while here, whether it's messaging to the fan base, whether it's messaging, apparently, to the players and letting them know exactly what was going on. So there was some anger, but obviously the Canucks and J.T. Miller said what he had to say that bought them a little bit of extra time. They didn't have to play on that Friday and Saturday night. They were able to push the resumption of their schedule back a couple of days. And here they are with three wins in four games. So they bought themselves some time and it was effective. But as Tom said, like this is going to be a fascinating. It was already going to be a fascinating offseason.

New Contractor, Pedersen and Hughes would make it an exciting, you know, offseason for the fan base. But then you've got Seattle expansion. You've got the draft. You've got the future of Travis Green. And now you wonder if they've got to have this sort of kumbaya circle to get all the players back on board and make everybody happy. Like, I'm not expecting a mass exodus of the players. That's not going to happen. But, you know, I think it was a clearing of the air.

And J.T. Miller was the frontman, said what he had to say. Clearly, he had the support of his teammates when he said all of that. And I think ultimately these guys, they just want to feel like they're, know what's going on and that ownership and management, you know, have their back in a time of crisis. And I'm not sure that they felt that way. So let's see where it goes. As Tom said, winning can do an awful lot to change the internal perception, the external perception. And so they've got 15 games. They're in the chase here. They've got a lot of work in front of them. But it definitely, one thing we know for sure, whether they get to the playoffs, whether they come

up short, it is not going to be a dull offseason here in the city of Vancouver. Listen, guys, we're going to keep you around here for a little multiple choice madness segment. Now, we want to tell our listeners, we did not give you the questions in advance. So when we ask you these questions, you're going to give us your gut reaction here. Okay? So it's not like you've had a chance to do all. It's kind of just a visceral gut reaction to these questions. We've got four of them, okay?

For you guys, Haley and I will alternate asking the questions, and you guys tell us what your answers are going to be. You all set here? Ready to go. Okay, here we go. Haley, lead us off here. All right. If you're the Toronto Maple Leafs, which team would you want to face

in the first round of the playoffs if you end up winning the North Division, the Montreal Canadiens, Calgary Flames, or the Vancouver Connects? I would pick the Montreal Canadiens because they're the team that will have backed in, right?

Like, no matter what happens, you're not going to be facing a Canadians team that feels really, really good about themselves. short of like winning eight of their last 10. You know, if the Canucks make it, they've at least got a goaltender that's shooting fireballs out of their eyes, right?

Plus, you know, they have really good special teams and they've done some good things in the bubble. Plus they've beaten the Maple Leafs four in a row now in the regular season. So, you know, in a world where the Canucks have won enough that they're in the playoffs, I don't think that's the team you want to face. And then Calgary is my last choice.

Calgary is back to Calgary looks like a Darrell Sutter team now. Like they are elite by the underlying profile since Sutter came in. Markstrom's a big game goalie. Calgary is my last choice. So for me it would be Montreal, especially in the event that they only go

500 the rest of the way. And I'll jump in quickly here because I had a conversation with Pat Steinberg here in Calgary yesterday. And we were talking about the Canucks and Calgary's playoff odds. And And we both said, like, how funny would it be is if, you know, neither the Canucks or the flames go three and one against each other in those final four games.

And they basically just give Montreal the space to back into that four spot. Because if Calgary or Vancouver doesn't do something like sweeping or go three and one in that series, then you're just giving Montreal the back in to make the playoffs. And then if you get like Gallagher back, Carrie Price back, and then all of a sudden they like make a big upset in the play. playoffs. It'd be pretty funny. But J-Pat, what's your choice? Well, no, and it's going to be a fascinating watch down the stretch, because I kind of liken it to a golf tournament where Montreal is going to post a score. They're going to be the clubhouse leader. And then you're going to have these two teams that are still out on the golf course and can't afford to make any bogeys. But if

they're playing head-to-head, clearly one of them will. And you're right. I mean, the scenario is there that the two of them could sort of lop each other's heads off and allow Montreal to hold onto its position. I hate to agree with Trance, but I would say if I'm the Leafs, I probably want to play Montreal as well. I just don't know what to make of Montreal. And I think if I'm a playoff team, I want to take the team that's kind of limping and

struggling down the stretch here and maybe not on form and the injuries to carry Price and as you mentioned Gallagher, you know, they should be back, but who knows. So I would say if I'm Toronto, I'd want to play Montreal. All right. Here's our next question for you guys. And if you hear the Hart Trophy

conversation, most of the chatter-setters around Connor McDavid and Austin Matthews. But here's our question for you today. If you had to choose the heart trophy candidate who plays on an American-based team, who would get your vote? Okay, so I'm going to give you four options here. Who deserves a little bit of heart trophy love playing on a U.S. base team? Is it A, Mark Stone in Vegas, B, Nate McKinnon in Colorado, C, Brad Marchand in Boston,

or D. Alex Barkov with the Florida Panthers. Jay Pat, let's let's let you go first on this one. I can't get enough Nathan McKinnon, and I will admit that this year I've been so locked into Canadian hockey that I, on occasion, I'll flip on the TV and watch other games, but there are long stretches where I feel that there isn't even hockey being played outside our border. So I haven't watched as much of the Colorado Avalanche as I probably should have this year, but I can never get in Transnosis.

I can never get enough of Nathan McKinnon. Like the guy just, he stalks his opponents. I love sort of how ruthlessly aggressive he is in the offensive zone. I would take a team, well, I think anybody would take a team full of Nathan McKinnons, but I would take Nathan McKinnon on my team all day, every day, and I can't wait to see the Colorado Avalanche in the playoffs, try to get it right this time, because I think they were built to get it done last year, and goaltending injuries obviously derailed their Stanley Cup dreams,

but I'm going to go Nathan McKinnon as my guy. All right, Trance. Stone, McKinnon, Marchand, Barkoff. Oh, I get your vote. There's no suspense here. I'm obviously going with my guy, Sasha Barkoff. Yeah. Sasha Barcoff's leveled up.

Like, he's leveled up legitimately, right? And I think what he's done is wildly impressive. You know, and I think, honestly, I think probably Joel Quenville gets a lot of credit for me anyway. I think that Sasha, here's the thing about Sasha Barcove. Sasha Barcove has never cheated for offense once in his life. He does the right things, the right way, at a high. of a body and like leaves it all on the ice. He also just loves to play. And I think seeing all of that, everyone he's ever met has been very impressed, extremely impressed. And then I think Joel

Quenville comes into that locker room and he's like, yeah, you're great, but do you just win? Like I had Jonathan Taves. He just won. And I think Barkov had to all of a sudden sort of earn someone with higher standards, confidence, and trust. And the only way to do that was to lead a team and win, constantly. That's what the Florida Panthers have done. Barcoves leveled up. I think he is the best two-way forward in the NHL. For me, if you're excluding McDavid, Barkov's the choice of the options you listed. I feel like we're just erasing Mark Stone in this conversation, but that's fine. We're going to move on to the third question. Is this going to be the year he, like, wins the Selke? I don't know. We'll see. Moving on to question number three. This is why Ian doesn't let me run

multiple choice because I ramble and I go off on little tangents. So question number three, uh, who has the firmest grasp on an individual trophy right now? Connor McDavid for the heart, Andre Vasselisby for the Vesna, Karil Kaprizov for the Calder or Rod Brindamore for the Jack Adams. I get Vasselovsky for the Vesna. I don't think there's any other choice this season. I think Vasilevsky is for sure going to get it. Now, McDavid should have that firm a grasp on the Heart Trophy too, but because his competition is, you know, includes Austin Matthews and the Ontario voting block, even though it's been stripped down. I do think, I do think there's a little bit of question. Also, there's something about McDavid that people look to not give him awards.

I don't know what this is, but it's like, it's, it's been consistent throughout his career. It's like LeBron James in the NBA, right? People seem to look to like find hipster choices around McDavid. So I'm not going to pick McDavid. Caprizov, we know the conversation, the him versus Robertson conversation. And oh boy, isn't he old for a Calder winner. So, you know, for me, not him. And then with coaches, it's always, it's always an odd pick.

I think Rod should win. But I mean, Joel Quenville, I think has got a really good case himself. I think Paul Maurice should have a really good case personally. So, you know, I think there's a few different options there. For me, Vasilevsky, just head and shoulders, the most dependable, reliable goaltender in the NHL, putting in an elite performance this year. I just can't see anyone else winning it aside from him.

So I'm going to pick Vaselowski. I'd go Vaselowski as well. And it's funny here in Vancouver when Thatcher Demko emerged in the month of March and was just playing lights out, ridiculously good goaltending for the Vancouver Canucks. and people were starting to dig in, and he better get Vesna votes and those types of things. And then we were seeing some of the underlying numbers for goaltenders, goal saved above average, and those types of things. And he was up the list. And then you were like, oh, but damn, like,

look at Vasselowski. He's been doing this all year. And he's still crushing the kinds of numbers. The Demko's posting for a month here. So it sort of framed, I think, that argument for people in Vancouver, not that Demko was going to win the Vesna. But he was playing at that level for an extended period and took us back to last summer in the bubble where he gave us a glimpse of what was possible. But Vasselowski, you know, I think a lot of times it feels like the voters want to look, as Tom said, maybe look for reasons why guys shouldn't instead of why they should. And there's just too many reasons why Vasselowski. I know he plays behind Stanley Cup winners and, you know, he's got a great team in front of him,

but he's doing it himself. And so I think of that group that you presented there, I think Vasselovsky's the guy. Okay. final question for you, and you guys were paying attention, obviously, to the Vancouver Canucks Ottawa Senators game on the weekend in which Ardena Mneseemov ended up dressing and being ready to go as an emergency goalie. So I'm going to throw a fictitious scenario at you. You tell me what you guys are going to do.

Okay, so here's the deal. Your hockey team is winning a game by two goals. Okay, so you're up by two goals with 10 minutes left in regulation time. But guess what? All of your goalies have now been hurt. So I'm going to give you two options. What do you do in the final 10 minutes? Do you, A, dress a regular skater, put them in goalie gear and hope for the best?

Or B, keep your net empty and use six skaters and try to protect the lead that way. Again, guys, you're up by two goals. There's 10 minutes left. All your goalies are out. What do you do? J. Pat, you're up first. I find the Vancouver Canucks I'm dressed in Alex Edler and there's no question about it. This has been a running sort of gag here in Vancouver for years.

There's so many pictures of Alex Edler in behind the goaltenders, sort of dreaming it feels like to get this very opportunity. Like I think Alex Edler probably lays awake at night thinking, how could I put myself in this scenario where they would turn to me and say, Eddie, get in there, get suited up. We got robbed on the weekend. when we saw the video of Anisimov dropping down into the stance with the gear on, like the hockey world was robbed of this incredible, incredible opportunity. I'm glad that there wasn't another injury to a senator's goaltender, because I'm not sure that I truly wanted to see him in there facing NHL shots,

but I just loved, I couldn't get enough of the video of him suiting up in the locker room. But if I'm a team, any team, I'm dressed in a player, but I know if I'm the Vancouver Canucks, I'm given Alex Adler. his chance, this opportunity that he has dreamed of to actually play the position of goaltender. I think, yeah, I think you have to, unfortunately, put in a player. I, I'd love to see a team try to play six on five, six on four hockey situationally in different, in different scenarios, like more aggressively than they do, you know, Patrick

Wuss-style, but even more aggressively than that, I'd love to see teams experiment more overall, but with a lead, with a lead at the end of the day, I want someone in my net. Ideally, Alex Edler, but someone anyway. All right. Hey, listen, guys, this has been a blast before we let you go. Maybe you can, it's free plug time for people who don't know where to find your podcast, the Vancast. Where do people find it? And how often do you guys drop new episodes?

Well, they can find us at the athletic of the athletic app and all of your usual podcast platforms three times a week. Somehow we started out doing two a week in a local market and the landscape in Vancouver Radio changed in February. And the higher ups of the athletics said, you know what? There's a hole here to be filled. Jay Pat and Drancer, get in there and fill that hole. So they said to do a third one. So they've let us do three a week. Somehow, some way.

And people are like, what are you guys talking about? Three a week? We have no problem filling three a week. So especially we talked about it. I mean, there are no shortage of storylines around the Vancouver. So three Vancasts a week. If you want your fill of Vancouver Canuck content. And truly the most in-depth, nerdy possible coverage of the Vancouver Canucks is what

Jay Pat and I do. Deep dives on splits and underlying numbers. Like we'll do 10-minute segments with ridiculously in-depth sort of detail on cap mechanics and roster mechanics. And it's a lot of fun. So, yeah, definitely, definitely tune in. You don't want to miss J-PAT segways into Manscaped. Let me tell you.

They are remarkable. Hey, that's awesome. Hey, listen, that's all the time we have. For this, Haley, I hope that that toe feels better for you next week. Get a check out. No, I'm not going to the doctor. They're not going to do anything. Amazing.

All right, that's it for this edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a rating and review. You know we'd appreciate it. Annual subscriptions to the athletic. Get them for $3.99 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. Coming up on Wednesday's two-man advantage edition of the athletic hockey show,

Scott Burnside, Pierre LeBrunner, are going to be joined by Chicago Blackhawks general manager, Stan Bowman. And I'll be back in this chair on Thursday with Down Goes Brown, Sean Mackey.