The Athletic Hockey Show - Calder Trophy deep dive: Connor Bedard’s the favorite, but who can challenge him?

Episode Date: October 13, 2023

On a brand new episode of The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series, Max, Corey, and FloHockey’s Chris Peters deep dive into the 2023-24 NHL Calder Trophy pool of competitors, and discuss the frontrunners like Connor Bedard, Logan Cooley, and Adam Fantilli, defensemen who could be in the mix like Luke Hughes and Brock Faber, as well as guys like Devon Levi, Matthew Poitras, Fraser Minten, and others who could have big impacts on their respective clubs throughout the season.Plus, to close things out, the guys evaluate whether the once-vaunted Los Angeles Kings prospect pool has lived up to expectations or not. Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Corey Promben and Chris Peters of Flow Hockey for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. And guys, I'm going to shock you with our first topic today as we dig into some of the rookies. I think we're going to talk about Connor Bedard. No. Who came into his career, a couple points on the board. He's got his first goal out of the way.

he's on prime time, as advertised, I think I would say. Has a super awkward conversation with Cindy Crosby before opening night. Yeah. I thought it was wonderful. There's been a lot of good badard stuff. And I think that had potential. I saw the potential in it. But he definitely looked like he knew he was in a staged environment, I guess we should say.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was, yeah, that was kind of interesting. It was more, it was more interesting, you know, when they both got to the face-off circle and Crosby absolutely cleaned his clock on the opening draw just with the cleanest face-off when you could ever have. And I think that's always kind of the issue when you have an 18-year-old center. Like Jack Hughes was dealing with that in his first few years, right?

It's just, it's tough. When you don't have the man strength to, that's going to be a routine thing for Padard, I imagine. in his first year or two in the NHL. Yeah, it is. And that'll be one of the many ways that stuff like that shows up. But I think as we're seeing through two games is his brand of hockey is going to translate pretty well too. He's getting his shots.

He's finding ways to get his entries. Even a lot of attention being paid to him. He is finding ways to make real impacts on these games. And playing a ton. Like he's their go-to player right out of the gate. And we'll see what they're recognizing. is by the end of the year, I presume it won't be a great win-loss record by the end of the year. But E. He looks like he's going to be the guy they lean on all season.

And like you said, the skill is showing in significant ways, you know, that he runs their power play. He's getting a lot of shot attempts and scoring chances. Playmaking looks very strong. I think you also see at times that he is a barely 5 foot 10, 18-year-old player. And what he's trying to come into the zone or go into the corners, there's, Sometimes he gets pushed off the puck rather easily. But that's just going to be part of the adjustment period there for him. But he looks like a, I'm not sure he'll be, he's an impact player right away.

We'll see how he does over the course in the next few weeks and months. But he looks like he'll be a really good NHL player right away. And to Max's point to the amount of respect paid to Bedard's offensive capability, you know, especially by the penguins in that first game on the power play where and Noel Achari was basically shadowing him on the power play, like really fading towards Bedard as best he could. It felt like the Alex Oveskin treatment a little bit, right? It was.

And as we've seen with Alex Ovechkin, you can do that all you want. It really doesn't matter. He's still going to do it. And he's still going to find a way. So I think that'll be, you know, Conner's adjustment is finding a way to, you know, kind of escape that pressure. You know, that might also have to be a bit of a scheme thing, too, from Chicago with their power play making sure they get him different looks he can score from anywhere so you know trying to get him

moving around um you know but i i think that that's you know it's it's pretty interesting you you look at the chicago's top power play unit and it's got a lot of pop and then like nick filino is like on their second power play unit so you know like it's kind of that's kind of where we're we're at with chicago so like there there is going to be continued pain but it's still going to be a lot of fun to watch them just because of the one guy. And when he's playing the minutes that he's playing, as Corey mentioned, you know, Chicago is going to give him every opportunity to succeed to point it up to, you know, to play with good players and to be on the first power play. You know, I think that the question will be as we go on, the wear and tear of the long season, the different things that, you know,

the different pressures that are going to come with him, all of them, you know, he's every in our mission interview. He is every pre-imposed. He's every, you know, he's on Pat McAfee in a car. You know, like he's doing all this stuff. And at some point, you know, you do wonder, you know, how much can Conor handle. I think he's uniquely qualified to handle it because he's been doing it for so long. But at the same time, it's just like, man, this guy is going to have a lot riding on his shoulders all year. I think one distinction between the Chicago power play and the Washington power play and why OVich can always find some way to quote, and quote, get open is they have other weapons on there that you have to respect.

And not that Taylor Hall is it a good player, or Seth Jones isn't a really good player. It's just, I think it's just different how you can play against Chicago's powerplay as it currently stands against the Washington Power Plays over the years that have had John Carlson and Mike Green, who's Nett Sullivan, Nick Baxter, and O'Shee and all the other great players. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris made the point about, you know, having to get him moving and get other looks. Part of that, too, for Chicago is just going to have to be demonstrating that other guys on that power play can beat you. And if that starts happening, he will get a little more space back. But it's going to be on some of those guys to put some power play goals up early in the year and force teams to react to that too. We did a roundtable a couple days ago, Corey. Well, not so much a roundtable. It was just you and Scott talking about some of your rookie expectations.

And you had a comment in that. I think you said you would prefer. Bader to the field, if you were handicapping the Calder race right now. But I'm going to narrow it a little bit. We will talk about the rest of the rookies here, but I want to talk about two centermen who I think are in a little bit different of a situation than Badaard, Logan Cooley and Adam Fantilli, both players who have played college hockey. Cooley's not a huge guy. Fantilli does have a significant kind of size build difference, but both have played, I think, more physical hockey to this point in their careers than

Badaard has. Obviously, we know the skill of Bader. We know, I think, you know, you said you're taking Baderd against the field. I took Cooley when we submitted our staff selections at the athletic. I want to know how wide is the gap and how shocked would you be? What would, what would Cooley and Fintilly have to do in order to really give Bader to run? Well, for one, they need the opportunity. I mean, you look to Fantilli, who I thought looked excellent in his first NHL game last night, but he's not on the first power play unit, because they have other good players. They have Johnny Controll, they have Patrick Lainey. So, and well, they've had Zach Rowensky and now,

and we'll see when he comes back. So, but that's going to be something he will need to prove is that he can put together good geometric, good game, and work his way to the top of the lineup into the first power play unit. That's something that he won't have against Bedard. And, you know, Coolly is, I don't know if Arizona's forward group is good as Columbus is, but they have some good options there too. So he'll need to prove he can be the guy that needs to be, you know,

their go-to guy. I think that's the distinction. Obviously, Cooley's, an older player, has had success against older players in college and is a strong Calder candidate and had a great preseason. But the preseason is not the regular season. We've seen this with a bunch of other guys who had strong pre-season. And then that first NHL game rolls around and things look a lot differently. So we'll see how it goes. But I think Cooley, with his skating and his skill and this compete, absolutely could win the Calder. And it wouldn't surprise, me if either right away or very quickly he becomes a go-to player for Arizona.

Yeah, I think it all comes down to opportunity, as Corey said, and you look at in through two games, Connor Bedard has averaged 21 minutes and 37 seconds of ice time. You know, that's a lot of opportunity with a player that shoots as much as he does, which gets a puck's on net as much as he does. You know, the points are going to come in that, in that way. And so, you know, I also think that Cooley is probably the his strongest competition. because he will be similarly leaned on by Arizona and will have to be. And I think that that's going to be, you know, the separating factor.

What I will say about Fantilli is, I mean, it is so clear, you know, I always wondered if he was going to be, you know, just kind of, he's a different cat in terms of, you know, the way that he handles himself, the way that he kind of carries himself compared to Connor. He's not as like polished and like, I mean that. in a good way. I mean it in a good way. He's still very mature and everything else, but I just think that he, he almost is just kind of like playing with house money right now, which I think is a dangerous thing for, for any, you know, for him, not for him, but for like everybody else because he just doesn't seem to know what he doesn't know. And he's really enjoying that. And I mean, I like the way he

looked for Columbus. I think that there's going to be a lot there. You know, they're not the only guys. I think that are legitimate threats here. But I mean, yeah, those two players in particular, especially given the fact that they, you know, had historic freshman seasons in college hockey. And we've seen the transition that NCAA players have made to the NHL so smoothly over the last few years. They're definitely a threat to contend here.

Yeah, to your point about the ice time, you know, you talk about Badard or 21 and a half, Finale's at 1340 and in his first game. So there is a hill to climb there to get that. Sure. But when you refer to the history of college hockey players, Maddie Baneers came out of that same program, and Fantilli had a better season than him,

and Benares came out and he won the Calder. And so I don't think... A dramatically better season than him. And it's not against Maddie, who's I think so superstar is just like Adam... Yeah, dramatically bad. One of the best we've seen, yeah. Right.

So, you know, I'm not saying that Fentilly has to come out and be a point per game, you know, 200-foot, you know, dynamic centerment. But I think it's within their own possibility that he puts up numbers, you know, on par with what Baneers did. And if he does that, we have seen that's a recipe to be really competitive for the Calder Trophy. It does come back to the opportunity. Baneers had an easier path to a role than even Fin Tilly. And I just think, if we're talking about who's actually going to win the Calder, not who we think is going to have a good year, who we think should win it,

I just think with everything that's been going on with Badaar over the last two, three years, with all that's been written and said about him, with all the media attention, the Pat McAfee stuff of the world. Like, I think, if it's even, like, remotely close, he's winning it. Oh, for sure. The next best player will have to have had scored like 15 more points

and something like that, I think, to actually win it. Yeah, yeah. Don't think that Calder Trophy voters aren't obsessed with the narrative. Don't think it because, unfortunately, we're all, the creators of certain narratives, and that's who votes on it. So, you know, like, that's the thing is, like, I mean, that's how Connor McDavid almost won with half a season, too. And that's what I mean is, is that everybody who's been hyping this player up for the last

two years are also the voters of the award. So it's, as I just, he will, somebody else will need to have an absolutely incredible season or Bardard has to get injured or something, I think, for him. not to win it. Yeah, the comparable would probably be like Rasmus Dahlane was outstanding in his rookie year, but Elias Pedersen was just undeniably the Calder Trophy winner that year. It probably does need to be something like that. Yeah, and like Panarin over, over McDavid or, you know, those, those, that was the one, right? Yeah. So like, you know, that, and he was basically riding shotgun to the Hart Trophy winner that year. So, you know, that's, that's just, it's fascinating to kind of

see where this is going to go. But, yeah, I mean, I, you know what, I, I, I do. I do. think some of the defensemen will get involved, but I don't think that they're going to point up enough to really challenge the forwards that we mentioned. But yeah, I mean, like, that's, I just, I'm so excited about this rookie class because, because of Bidar, but then you just see there's so many layers to it and so many different players. And there's even these unexpected guys that I know we're going to talk about later that, that have found a way under the roster. So this is a really intriguing class. And I think every rookie class brings some level of intrigue and excitement, but this one just feels bigger and better somehow.

So yeah, so I'm excited to see how this all plays out. Okay, we are back. And Chris, right before the break, as we talk about kind of the rookies, the Calder race, you mentioned some of the defensemen who could try to get into this race. And I think the name that's going to come to mind

for a lot of people right away there is Luke Hughes in New Jersey. I was at the Red Wings Devils opener the other night. And surprise, surprise, Corey. It is Luke Hughes on PowerPlay 1 for a legit president's trophy candidate team the New Jersey Devils, that certainly is part of the recipe, if he's going to get into this mix, is picking up those sweet, sweet power play one points.

Right, and we'll see whether that continues all season. New Jersey's paying Dougie Hamilton a lot of money to be an offensive contributor for them. And so that could be something that flips over the course of the season, but Baluk has the skating and the skill. And he has decent chemistry with one of the players on that team as well. It makes sense to put him on the first power play unit. But yeah, he's a guy that, I get, whether he can get into mix with guys like Bedard and Kooley, in terms of offense is something we'll see over the course of the year.

And he only got, I think, about 17 minutes in that first game. But that is definitely a great opportunity. And he has the talent to be able to maximize on that opportunity. Yeah. And you know what? I think it's really those guys that got a taste of the league last year, guys like, like Luke Hughes and Matt Nyes and, you know, even like Coronado and others that just at least got a game or got experience. And this was actually, I think, tremendously helpful for Quinn Hughes

and his rookie year. He had, he got seven games with the Canucks before the season was over. And so Luke is kind of coming in eyes wide open to this. And then when you get an opportunity, that starts to build the confidence. And I think that Luke Hughes has always been a player that thrives in those situations where he's confident. I don't think he ever lacks confidence. with the puck on his stick. And I don't, you know, we haven't seen that at the world championship. We haven't seen that even at the NHL last year where he did get a goal, you know, and certainly has kind of started that trajectory.

But yeah, I mean, it is going to come down to the level of minutes that he plays. If he ends up on Power Play 1, I mean, there's, there's obviously an opportunity for him to really throw up some really nice points. But, you know, we're talking if you're going to be a defenseman that's going to win the Calder, it's probably going to be a 50 to, you know, a 50 point season. How many defensemen are really to see do that? You know, something of that nature, unless, you know, there's a lot of goals in there. And then they're, you know, you're obviously part of a team that's pushing for, you know, great success in the postseason as well.

You know, so I mean, Luke is fascinating. And then the fact that, you know, Lindy Rough with his brand new extension is just like, let's see what the kid can do on Power Play 1. And I'm love it. And the Lindy Rough just like let the kids play season. I'm all about it. Not, I don't think a real calder threat, but probably the other premium D prospect getting real minutes out of the gates is Kevin Korninski with Chicago. You know, top four, he is getting on the second power play unit there for them. I think it'll be really soon to see what they do with Kortinski during the season.

Is he an all-year guy within, I don't think he's a nine-game guy. I think they would look at him longer than that. The question is whether he goes past the 40-game mark and tolls the first year of free agency. But as he gets him back to the juniors, after that it would go to the World Juniors. for Team Canada. I think those are all questions with Kortinski. I mean, when you watch with the NHL, his skating clearly stands out at that level already. He's a clear, I think, above average NHL skater.

I think with him, given that his game is offense, I think from what I've seen in those first two games, I think his puck moving and his decision-making, well, not, you know, I think he moves puck's well. He has skill. I think those are going to be a little crisper over the course of the coming months for him to stay in the NHL full time this season. But I think he looks like a really interesting young player for Chicago. And I mean, that team is so young. They got him. They have Alex Flesh. They have White Kaiser in their blue line. Lucas Reikles, their second line center with Bada is their first line center.

It's just a very, very young team right now. Yeah. And I think with Kourchinski in particular, you know, as as a, you know, a teenage defenseman and as a guy that, you know, I'm not a is convinced that, yeah, like you, Corey, I think that there's probably more that he can do. And I also think kind of getting him away from the, what's going to be a lot of losses might also not be the worst thing in the world. But, you know, I do think that what we saw, skating was really good. Puck decisions were a little panicky. I saw a lot of puck thrown into space to nowhere a couple times. But then you see the rush where he gets a good scoring opportunity with that speed to burst up.

and create a scoring chance for himself and he got stopped. But that's another one. But I did want to mention one other defensemen who's not going to get the points, I don't think, but who I think will be among the most impactful rookie defensemen this year. And that's Brock Faber from the Minnesota Wild, 21 minutes and 33 seconds and the first goal of his career. Obviously played big minutes in the postseason last year and more than held his own. Defensive prowess does not win you the Calder Trophy.

but it may make you a very impactful player. I think Brock Faber is going to make a significant impact on the Wild Blue Line this year. The fact that he has already on the board is a good thing. You know, his first shot, first goal. But yeah, the 21 minutes and 33 seconds on opening night, he is going to get leaned on, and I think he can handle it. And Pavel Minchikov, another guy, too, in Anaheim, I mean, very young player, another very young team in general.

We'll see when Leo Carlson comes back from injury. That should be a very young and exciting team. And Minchikov wins the training camp battle with Jackson, Lecov and Olens, and Zellweger and Tristan Luno. Luno is still with the team. Zell Wickers now in the American League. But I think all those guys had strong camps. But Minchikov with his skill and his skating will be a guy. We're really interested to see how he is used.

I'll be interested to see how they use him compared to Jamie Drysdale. You know, who is going to be guys leaned on offensively, who are going to be guys who are maybe more defensively minded. That will be a given that they're both, I think, you know, really talented but not, I would say, premier shutdown type of players. I'll be curious to see how Anaheim uses those guys. Speaking of positions where it really does take something pretty Herkulean to really contend, even in a non, you know, badard Fin Tilly Cooley-E year, Devin Levi, I think, is the goaltender who seems to have the path toward that kind of season. In the opener last night, the Sabres get run. They lose 5 to 1.

I don't think we're going to pin that on Devin Levi here on night one. But I do wonder, what did you guys see in that game from Levi? Were you able to watch it? What did you think? Any kind of indications on whether Levi is ready to carry the kind of load that it seems like Buffalo might need him to? I think he does. He's a really good goal to start. I mean, you know, very athletic, very intelligent.

He's shown in his collegiate career that he can impact games. But there will be the size question with Levi. Is there a reason why he was a seventh round pick, is that he doesn't have, you know, a big frame. He doesn't have, say, I think, in my opinion, while he's very quick, I don't think he has, say, Igor Shisterkin quickness at that size, or you say sorrow quickness.

So that's why he said about third round pick. He was a seventh round pick. So I think that's what he's going to have to prove, is that he can make the tough saves in the NHL and do so consistently. And when it comes to size of the goalies, I think people sometimes hear that, and at least when I read my comments or my social mentions, and they think that this is not important. But I think there's a reason why I've seen the NHL draft, it's pretty rare for a goalie under 6'2 to get drafted even. And it's just because it just says there's not a whole lot of history of success at those smaller goalies. Outside of those examples that I mentioned earlier of being legitimate players that help you win in the NHL.

And it comes down to just how fast the game moves. You know, you have to make those side-to-side saves and uncover net really quickly. And then there's those moments like, say, the Chris Kreider-tick goal against Devin Levi last night where he doesn't do anything wrong, but the puck just kind of squeezes by him. and you wonder, well, if he was just a little bit bigger, does the puck maybe graze him instead of get by him? It's hard to know. You hear the same thing when scouts watch Dustin Wolfe in the preseason kind of thing. There's shots that kind of just get right by his shoulder, by his army,

and you wonder if he was a little bit bigger, does that change things? So I think that's going to be the question with Levi. I think he's a good goal. I think he can be a starting goal in the NHL. But what I think is really interesting with their situation is Buffalo, who just signed it won power to a big deal, who would assign Raspist style. Lean to that big deal.

who had a premier offense in the NHL last season, looks like a team that's trying to make the playoffs this year that should be a playoff contender this season. And I can't remember a lot of situations where a team with those kind of aspirations basically handed their net to a guy with five pro games. And he could very well do it. But it's hard to think of recent history where that happened.

At least when Florida did it with Spencer, or Knight, you know, has Turkey Bobrovsky there. And obviously, when Knight falter, they can go to Boborowski. Yeah, we were talking before the show, even just trying to find rookies. And the one that came to mind is Jordan Bennington, but it's such a different rookie, right? Like you talk about, it's not just the NHL experience. We're talking about. We're talking about pro experience.

And Bittington had that for sure. This is Levi's real first extended run of pro hockey. So it is a pretty significant difference. Yeah, that's a huge point, Max, because most goalies, Most goalies that are the top of the class goalies have played in the AHL, yeah, almost a full season. We look at the Minnesota, like Esper Walsdap might be the best goalie prospect in the world right now. And he is in the HL for a second season.

Obviously, Minnesota has two veteran goaltenders. They're in a different situation than Buffalo is in terms of what they have at their disposal for goaltending. but what the Sabres are doing with Levi is large like it doesn't happen often if ever even you know like Carter Hart probably needed to spend more time in the HL and and they brought like that was a big debate and they brought him up and I still think that that was the wrong decision to bring him up as early as they did even though he played well that season because I think that there's a lot of different things that have to happen you know different different different kind of benchmarks that goalies have to clear now Devon Levi is special.

In a lot of ways. He was one of the best collegiate goalies that we've ever seen, probably, you know, among the best since Ryan Miller, which is saying a lot. And in terms of, you know, what he did. But it still is what the Sabres are doing goes against the grain, not saying it's wrong, but it goes against the grain of how goalies have typically been developed for NHL success. There just aren't many like him. Yeah, you mentioned Carter Hart's a good one. I think it was like Carrie Price, he came in as a 20-year-old, that really good 19-year-old. Like, it's just very hard to think of examples.

It doesn't mean that Levi can have success. He might have the next Carter Hart rookie season. He might have the next Kerry Price rookie season. You know, it's very possible. Price may be a little bit over the top there, but it's possible that he has a good year. I'm just surprised, given where Buffalo is as a team, that this is the plan. And that in the off season, there wasn't, I, Eric Commer is fine, but I'm surprised there wasn't a more, substantive plan B put in there that I'm a veteran goalie in case Levi shows he can't do it,

which we're not there yet. He was really good at the end of last season. It's just one game. We'll see where we are by November and December before we say that he's not ready. And I guess quickly one more saver I want to hit while we're on them is Zach Benson, who, you know, we'll see how long. He seems like he's another one in that category that's maybe, let's think to the nine game mark before we start talking about a whole rookie season here.

But he gets, he's getting top-dived minutes to start out here. And obviously he earned his way into this opportunity with his camp. What's, what's reasonable to expect? What are you looking for with Zach Benson? Really strong preseason looked solved in the first game. Obviously, extremely skilled and intelligent. He competes well. You kind of saw, even as a smaller guy, he was willing to get in there physically last night.

I think with, what Benson is, the frame is a concern. I don't, you think you kind of saw in the first NHL game that his skating is not up to, NHL standards for a smaller guy. So that is concerned. But Benson is here because of how good a player he is, and probably because Buffalo isn't too keyed on sending him back to junior where he'll probably score two points a game. But he's also here because of Jack Quinn.

If Jack Quinn was healthy, he's not in the lineup. But now, but Jack Quinn isn't healthy. He's going to be out for several months. So maybe Benson does get beyond nine games. He's kind of in that Kevin Kortchinsky realm where he stays until December. And then he goes to the World Junior Camp. and then he plays the second half of the year on a contender, which we don't think Wenatchi will likely be.

So I think those are all possible things for Benson. He's looked like he belongs right now, not it belongs in that he's, I think, going to substantially help Buffalo win games. But when I've been watching the junior players, he's looked like he's belonged, whereas, you know, then there's Fraser Minton, who I thought in the first game was just okay, frankly, for Toronto. And then you have Matt Poitras for Boston, who also I thought looked quite solid. Yeah, those are two guys I want to get to,

well. Let's take a quick break here and then we'll circle back on some of those other guys that maybe are kind of more in the dark horse tier. They're really rookies to watch more than so much to call. We're going to talk about them right after this. All right, fellas, right before the break, Corey was talking about a couple of the guys who have kind of come on to the scene this preseason. And maybe the most notable in Boston, a team that so badly is going to need a young center to step up in the near future. It's early. But Matthew Poiris. But he looks like he might be able to do that, whether it's, you know, this year or very soon, comes off a great preseason, makes a team out of camp. We'll see where it goes.

But off to a pretty solid start here. Yeah, I mean, extremely solid start considering how good he was in the preseason. And like I said earlier in the show, I have seen a lot of good preseason die on the first night of the regular season when all the NHL players are in the lineup and they're actually trying to win. And the game changes substantially from what you saw one or two weeks earlier. But I thought Poitra was quite good against Chicago. Like he was making plays. He was competing. He was getting involved in the offense.

The reason that he went late in the second round is he's a 5-11 forward, who I don't think is a great skater. And I still thought when you watch him in the NHL, his speed does not really stand out at that level. But it's kind of interesting because what you think of the centers that Boston just lost in the offseason. and David Craichie and Patrice Bergeron, I wouldn't have called them blazing fast skaters also, but their hockey sense and their competitiveness, particularly their hockey sense,

were things that drove them to success. And Poitras's, sorry, I keep picturing his name, Poitris' hockey sense has stood out in a major way. Like, he's on their power play as a 19-year-old. It's really impressive. And I, you know, as an eye, if he does this, I was way off on the player, just from his draft of value.

and summer evaluation. I did not see this coming at all. I didn't even think he would make the World Junior team, frankly. But it's interesting even talking to the scouts who watched him in the OHL. I would talk to the odd scout this fall who thought he could have done this, who was a big believer in the player. But most NHL scouts I talked to who watched the OHL, that's your thought. He was nowhere close to NHL ready.

He was two, three, four years away. Maybe he'll make it. Maybe he won't. you know, got, you know, looks like, you know, a nice B-range prospect. So, you know, he's really been one of the major surprises this fall. And if he can do this and be a useful NHL center for Boston as a 19-year-old, which again, he's so young. We got to, this is a week-to-week thing, month to month maybe.

It changes the discussion quite substantially for the Bruins for this season where you like the defense, you like the goalies, you like the wingers, but what can, can they do in the middle of the ice? Yeah, you know, I always say the preseason lies. I just like I, I've seen too much of it where, you know, because you can't make it, like you can't make a decision that's like when you're patient, you typically don't make a wrong decision. Like you, there's, there's not a lot of over marinating that can be done at this level.

But Plotterra was a guy where, you know, I had him as a third rounder in his draft season. and I saw a player that was wildly inconsistent in his draft season as well. And just, you know, like, things, certain things would kind of go in and out of his game. And, you know, like, you could see flashes. There were always a couple of flashes. And now he's kind of strung all those flashes together to put together, like, competent, good hockey. You know, I watched his debut. I watched a couple of his preseason games.

And you see a player that is not over, he is not overwhelmed by. by anything, like he is poised with the puck. He makes good decisions. He's a good passer. You know, I think that he understands the kinds of plays that he has to make at the NHL level. And sometimes, you know, players that have that higher level of hockey sense and that higher level of, you know, kind of an underrated skill set, once they're surrounded by

NHL players, they play better. And that doesn't always happen. But that seems to be the case with Potra right now. Now, if I'm a Boston Bruins fan, I am not going to say, based on his preseason or his first game, that this is the answer in both the short term and the long term. I think it's way too early to say that. But I would say the early signs are encouraging. And if you're an organization like the Boston Bruins that is very light on prospects and has been for years, this is a significant development for your organization. and you have to be at least cautiously optimistic that, you know,

you found something here with a second round pick in Matthew Poitra. Right. And like you said, you don't want to get too encouraged and jump to conclusions right away. Because I've seen both sides of the story play out. I've seen the teenager who you didn't really expect to make the team, make the team. And sometimes it works out spectacularly. Like sometimes it is Wyatt Johnson stepping in at 19. and doing great.

Sometimes it is Ryan O'Reilly or the aforementioned Petrie's Bergeron coming in as a second round pick and doing really good right away. I've also seen the Villajainolas make the team at 18 and then never make the team again. Or you see like Victor Mente

come out of nowhere as a fourth rounder and make the team in Montreal and a few years later he's a waiver candidate. It's not always a straight line and it's not easy to both make the NHL and then it's very not easy to, stay in the NHL. And it's even harder to stay in the NHL and help your team win games. So like you said, extremely encouraging, actually, early signs for the Bruins and for Matt

Poitra. But we'll see how the next few weeks and months go. You mentioned size is one of the kind of the question mark with Poitra. That is not the case for Fraser Minton, who has kind of the bigger body, frankly, the bigger body that I think Toronto probably needs to start injecting into their team. Easton Cowan got a lot of the headlines in the preseason, including from me. But I did like Fraser Minton at Traverse City, and on opening night, there he is, playing a real role for the Maple Leafs. Is this an assignment that you expect, I guess, to stick for Minton throughout the season? We'll see. Starts on the third line.

Matt Nye is on that line with Minton. I thought Minton was just okay, frankly, in that first game. I think what you like about Minton is the hockey sense. He competes well. He's got good enough size, like you said. I don't think, like, the pure skill and the pure speed stand out, really, in his game. I thought the pace looked a little quick for him in that first game. But we'll see.

I think in this case, this is a legit nine-game trial. You know, I've talked to some scouts who watch him in the preseason in the first game, and they think most likely situations he heads back to junior after nine games. But we'll see. Toronto needs him to succeed. They don't need him, but it would help them a lot because it helps them keep William Neelander on the wing and not have to put him into that center position. Or they could put yarn crock in the middle.

I mean, they have options. but obviously if Minton can actually look like an NHL player, it changes their depth chart quite substantially. It's very promising preseason. But I think for what I've seen so far, I think it's really 50-50, whether he's actually going to be part of their team this season. Yeah, I don't think I have quite the skating pace concern that you do maybe,

but I do think part of that is just at the size, and I think especially at the role that he's going to be asked to play. It is a difference when you're in that third-line role that he's in versus high lineup for Boston, where Poitra is. You don't see a lot of teenagers killing penalties in the NHL, and he was doing that for Toronto in the first game. Yeah. So that one will be interesting.

If we could take it out West here for a minute, guys, Matthew Coronado, he falls somewhere in between. I think we did expect him to be on the roster here. So he's not quite in the Dark Horse Poitra Minton category. But what have you seen from him so far? He's another guy who had a standout preseason. Yeah, you know, I watched him more in the preseason. I didn't get a chance to see his, his NHL debut.

But, you know, what we've seen from Matt Coronado and what we've seen over the last, you know, three, four years is a continual progression of a high-end goal scoring ability that I think will translate. I don't think he's going to be a high-end NHL goal score, but, like, I think that there's 30-goal potential in him. And certainly a guy that is going to be, and not as a rookie, but just as kind of the benchmark for his career. But, you know, what we saw, he was one of the top scores in the preseason for Calgary. He was putting a lot of good situations. You know, he's going to get time on the power play. He's going to get all those good kind of situations.

He's going to have to kind of ease into it a little bit. You know, he ended up playing about 13 minutes. So, you know, he's not necessarily immediately jumping into, you know, the lineup and, and, and he is on PP1, though, for Calgary. Exactly. So that's, and that's, and yeah, and that is really where, you know, he's probably going to get an opportunity to get a lot of that scoring done. But what I've also seen from Coronado from the preseason was I like the pace he was playing with. I like the way that he was handling

himself with the puck. I thought that his puck skills were strong. I thought his competitiveness was right there. You know, he's got to do all those different things. But, you know, you see a guy that we've seen so many of these guys come from the NCAA, move right into the NHL and have some success. I think that he's going to be among those guys. I think that he's going to be. you know, an impact, not, you know, not a, he's not going to be a star impact player, but I think that he's going to be a score for the, for Colorado out the gate, or Calgary out the gates. And, you know, I just really like where Coronado is heading. And also, we've just seen this progression from when he was in the USHL to college hockey, you know, the way that he played

at the world juniors, you know, he continually elevated his game. And I think that we've seen that throughout his career and now into the NHL. Yeah. All right. Before we let everybody go today, there is one bigger picture thing I want to ask you guys about, and that's in Los Angeles. For, you know, it seemed like two or three years there, we were talking about this as the gold standard pipeline, the gold standard prospect system in the NHL. It's right around the time they get quitten byfield. They inject Brand Clark. If I'm looking at, when I'm looking at their lineup today from where it's, you know, at to start the season, you got quitting byfield and first line left wing. You know, with the center depth they've acquired, I don't think that's a problem at all.

You got Alex LaFerrier on the second line, just made his debut, got in a fight, made the McAfee shows, if we're going to keep referencing that one on this episode. And you got Tobias Bjornfoot on the third pair D. Beyond that, you're not seeing so many of these names that we got so excited to see. And I guess I just kind of want to know, what's your read on the state of things as it relates to the prospects in Los Angeles? And Laferrier is only there because Calli have got suspended. Right. So, I mean, and Lafairier actually looked quite good in his first NHL game. I think he's been a success story early on in his development in the King's pipeline.

Looks like a guy who I think has a chance to be a legit bottom six forward in the NHL. But I think that is, you know, you look at some of these rebuilding teams like Anaheim, like Chicago, like Montreal, who have gotten so many of these draft picks. There's a reason why you get so many draft picks. Kings did the same thing is a lot of these guys. that we're really excited about, a lot of them are not going to hit. Or they're not going to hit in the way you expect them to hit. And I think that's just a part of the process, that when you get, you know,

five, seven, eight, nine really quality prospects, you're kind of hoping to get three NHL players, four NHL players. That's kind of what you're hoping for in terms of a hit rate. And, you know, we'll see. you know, there's still a big, we'll see, you know, Turcott might get some gains for them this year. You know, Brandt Clark didn't have an amazing camp, but he's obviously a fantastic prospect, and I expect he will get plenty of opportunity with the Kings this season. You know, Biafield had to work for his way for opportunities.

But the Kings have turned a quarter now as an organization. They have gone from, we're building up the pipeline, we're a young team to know we're trying to win the Stanley Cup this year. And, you know, they've tried to kind of capture the second here. half of Anzegopatar and Drew Dowdy's careers here a little bit and trying to get a couple more competitive seasons in. And it's tough to really lean on kids when you're trying to win hockey games. Yeah. I also think it's important to note, too.

Some of these prospects were used in trades to acquire, you know, like getting Brock Faber to acquire, trading Brock favor to acquire Kevin Fiala. Rasmus Kupari was part of the deal that, you know, that brought Pierre-Dubois. Back to Valardi. Yeah, Valardi, same thing. So, you know, that, that's where some of those guys go. And in that point, those are still assets that provided value to your organization in some way, shape, or form. You know, obviously, I think you look at the two guys that went in subsequent drafts, you have Alex Turcott and Quentin Byfield.

Now, Alex Turcott has had a ton of different injuries and all these, you know, illnesses and other things that have happened that have kind of knocked him off track. Quentin Byfield, we also have to remember lost in OHL season. he had to be shoved into the AHL because there was no OHL season. And that was probably earlier than he needed to. So it's taken him a little bit longer, but now we're seeing him kind of elevate and now he's on the top line for the king. So what the questions, you know, obviously, Brand Clark still very early on.

We're going to find out about him sooner, you know, sooner. And then the last two drafts, the Kings have not had a first round draft pick. So it's going to be, you know, it's harder for those guys to make an impact later on. Fascinated to see how this all plays out, especially, you know, this team basically has to, you know, we've seen that shuffling going on already, guys moving up and down, you know, they're going to have to do some salary cap gymnastics and other things to make sure that they're, you know, on the right path and compliant and everything else. But, you know, I do think it is interesting.

You kind of have to recalibrate your expectations on a lot of these guys. But then also you have those situations where this is a team that's competing so they use some of those prospects for, you know, trade assets, which ultimately made them more competitive in the end. So, yeah, fascinating, fascinating to watch. I mean, I think that you look at various teams, like how L.A. is doing it versus, like, say, you know, how Carolina is kind of, they were on a, not a simple, like, basically when they got Svetnikov, it was like just before the Kings started kind of falling off. So, like, those are two teams that I've kind of been watching in parallel, you know,

because Carolina has compiled draft picks, whereas, you know, L.A. in the last couple of years, it's not been as many, but they've been going for quality. So I've been watching those two quite a bit lately. I know people hate it when we do this, well, me particularly, as they hate when I'm, I do this, whether our readers or people in the league, just imagine whether the Kings or the Rangers had Tim Stutzel right now and how those lineups would look. Yeah, I know. These redrafts, they do, yeah, and they do.

hate it. Boy, do they let us know how much they hate it. But it is true. I mean, you know, and I mean, you can say the same thing about the Rangers at this point. I mean, it would change their center situation in such a dramatic way. Yeah. I mean, and that's the thing is like, you look at an Alex Alex Lefrenier look like, you know, can't miss. Definitely number one. And I thought he looked really good in this first game. Yeah, he did. And that was very encouraging for New York as well. But it's just like, you see. Stutzla and we were talking about under 23 guys in the league recently and it's just like gosh you have him and jake sanderson and ottawa got him both in the same draft and you might take those

guys one too in a redraft so just crazy well i think the one with the kings is more interesting because yes because that was that was a real decision point there i think we kind of like i had and this is not like hindstein bs where like when i saw see people like leaked to the media after oh we really had this guy really highly rated like i actually did talk to a couple of teams, a couple of scouts in the lead up to the 2020 draft, I had students

a level one. It definitely was not a majority opinion or close to it, but there was the odd team and scouts who had him there. But it was that decision

was really in when the Kings picked. So that's where that's more interesting. Yeah, absolutely. I just hate that stuff when people like try to,

you know, change history there a little bit. Like when people said that, I remember like after the 2017 draft, you saw a lot of leaks. that, oh yeah, we were really big Nico Hesier fans. Or no, we really hated Nolan Patrick, but yeah, I sure think.

We loved McCar. Yeah, that was our guy. Everybody had McCar and Heiskenen at one, except for the two teams picking at one and two. Funny how that works. Okay, so here's my thing. So in Turcotte is another guy. I think we all really liked Alex Turcotte at the time.

For sure. It just hasn't gone that well. It looks like, to me, that based on what they have now, especially they make the Duboisrardt, I think they can survive Turcotte, not panning out. I don't think that's going to be a big long-term problem. The two that I think are key, Brent Clark's got to be a legit top 4D for them.

And I think they do need to have a, not just I think like a top 6-4, but I think when Copa-trap, by the time Copa-tar ages out, they are going to need Quentin Byfield to be able to be a difference-making center for them. If I told you you could only pick one of those two things to happen for L.A., which one are you taking? So here's the thing.

I think Byfield is a bitter player than Clark. just the athletic profile is just so dramatically different. Six-five guy who can really skate. I know, I would just, and Clark, I think, has more offensive touch and better hockey sense. But I think, I just think Bifil is a better pro prospect. But I would say between those two scenarios, I would pick Clark being a legit tough four guy over Bifield, based on what I've seen as a pro over the last few years, emerging as like this legit one C on a contender.

I haven't seen that player. I guess it'd be a two C on a contender. I'm not sure that I've seen a legitimate first line center on a team that's going to make a difference. Yeah, I think I, my initial thought was was by field, but to Corey's point that the bar is higher. The bar is much higher in that situation. And I think with Clark. as I really like, you know, I think Dowdy is fine, and I think Mikey Anderson has become a very good professional defenseman.

But you need more and you need to have, I think to be a contending team, you have to have a legitimate top four on your blue line. And I think Clark can be that and would need to be that for them. Would Mikey Anderson be as good if he hasn't been stable to Dowdy for the last few years? I don't know, but I mean, together they're pretty darn good. They are. They are. No, and Mikey's a good player. Like I said, I just, like I said, I agree with you. They need like some legit dudes after Doughty leaves. Yeah. And Doughty has a little more time than Copa. I mean, we'll see. Everyone ages differently. He's, he's 33. He's got a little more in theory.

Copa Tarkian age out and they'll still get a couple more years of Doughty in theory. But it's, they're both, they're both crucial. I mean, it's at the end of the day, it does always come down to your stars at a certain level. so those are the two most important. Really good stuff today, guys. That is going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. You can catch more of Chris over at Flow Hockey and on his podcast, Talking Hockey Sense. In the meantime, you can follow us on YouTube at YouTube.com

at the athletic hockey show. We're going to be live streaming at least three episodes a week this season, plus a bunch of other content we're going to be putting up. We'll talk to you soon.