The Athletic Hockey Show - Can Connor Hellebuyck and Mitch Marner overcome their playoff demons?

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

Sean, DGB and Frankie discuss the playoff struggles of Jets goalie Connor Hellebuyck and Leafs winger Mitch Marner. They marvel at the Florida Panthers who have owned the moment in their series with the Lightning, and praise the Avs Alexandar Georgiev who had a huge bounce back in game 2 vs Winnipeg.Plus, DGB learned that his first round upset pick, Caps over the Rangers, might have been a bad one, and Gentille presents the greatest fear that Canucks fans have: Juuse Saros stealing the series between Nashville and Vancouver and the guys give their take on the Oilers/Kings and Vegas/Dallas playoff series to date.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is the athletic hockey show. It's the Wednesday edition. It's Franken scenes. Someone suggested that last week, DGB. At Pound Town Town Gown on Twitter. Frankenscenes.

It's Frankie Carrado. It's Tushans. It is a play on Franken Beans. I feel like if you have to explain it, that maybe... Maybe that's not what it's called. Maybe it's not. the ideal.

What exactly are we looking at here? What do you mean? I mean, is it the... Is it the Frank or the beans? Still working on that. Two Shons and a Frank is still the working title. How are we doing, dude? What's going on?

Doing good. We're doing good. What's going on is the first round of the playoffs. The absolute best time of the year. Be a hockey fan. Better than the Stanley Cup final. By a mile. We finally got some overtime.

Uh-huh. It's, we've, we've had a couple of crazy. A lot of low-scoring games, like, let's be honest, there's been a lot of three, two, four, one kind of forgettable games, but that's fine. Even like, in the early stages, you need some table setting games too. Not every game's got to be a bangor. So, uh, it's, it's good. It seems like a couple of the series are going to get themselves out of the way early. Let us, uh, get down to a more manageable five or six to concentrate on.

and I love it. I love having four games a night of playoffs. It's the exact right amount. I wrote about this coming out of Jets Ave last night, which Colorado wins. Alexander Georgiev good enough. That series is tied at one. Like my big takeaway from watching those games last night

is that for the most part, stuff has gone according to plan, Outside of, you know, outside of the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the idea of wrenching the works last night. We've got, you know, things are, things are, things are getting complicated where we would have expected. And then, and then the easy series are, are, are as easy as, as, as, as is, as, is, but is, I know, I know, I, well, specifically. Not ever. I guess I look all right So here's Come on Come on you

We got a lot of Leafs talk with it With Frankie You know Yeah down the line So we'll leave it for that But sure Nope Nobody should be surprised

What have we learned Sean Here's what I've learned This week I've learned that I don't think My Washington Capitals Upset First Round Pick is going to come through I

I was the one And only one of our writers Who picked Washington Put him in my bracket, everything. And, and look, is that because I thought the capitals were more likely than not to beat the Rangers? No, of course not. But I did feel like they people were sleeping on the upset potential here. And most years, we see some sort of crazy upset. I'm looking at this going hot goalie, you know, that, that was pretty much it, actually. I didn't really have a long

list of, long list of reasons after. But I felt like, you know what? I could have seen Washington go win, they win game one and suddenly everyone's going, hey, what's going on here? And suddenly it's a series and you get late and then Charlie Lingren has a couple of those Yaroslav Halafelot games. It all made sense in my head. And, you know, they haven't lost a home game. But I'm starting to think I might take a whiff on that one. I had to write the preview for that one. And, you know, the point of all that stuff of all the previews that we do,

it's some combination of me, Dom and Shana. working feverishly and furiously for a couple days there, you don't totally want to just ignore the possibility. It's something like the Caps winning can take place, right? So I did the same thing. And by the end of writing it, I was like, do I think that Washington is going to win this series? No.

But are they situated in such a way where you could imagine them stealing a cup? And again, it was mainly because of Charlie Lendgren, like, absolutely. the really funny part about last night in that series, or in that game, it was the Ray Ferraro game for us in the States. And he was just, he was trying so hard to not just be like,

yep, that's it. It varies points like throughout that game. Like he was doing his, his Ray's the best, he was a pro, but he was like, you could tell he was working against himself

to not just be like, all right, that's a soft goal by Charlie Lindgren. We might as well just pack it up and disappoint. this isn't going to work out the way that they want it to. Yeah, if it's the Charlie Lingren being Charlie Lingren series and Igor Schisturkin being even a little bit, Schisturkey. Schisturkenish, I think is what that's what the term is.

Schisturk-esque. I don't feel like, I don't feel this is great. And I don't feel like, even though I link the Rangers are going to win the series, I don't think we're getting that battle in New York that we were all banking on in round two. We wanted it. We wanted it. The first Rangers Islanders series have not had one since 94. For about 58 minutes in game two.

It looked like we could be headed there. It's like 90, 90 seconds. Be honest, did you actually see it? Did you see that comeback? Did you see it? I did. Yeah, actually, because I flipped over and I'd been watching the Leafs game, not surprisingly. But I flipped over and it was 3-1.

and it was just as they scored, it was 3-2. And then when they scored and they made it 3-3, my son was watching with me, goes, well, you're going to get overtime. That's good, right? And I was like, yeah, but I was on shift that night covering the games for the athletic. And I'm like, oh, if this goes into like double triple overtime, that's going to wreck my whole night, I'm going to be up forever.

And then got that sentence out of my mouth and bang, the puck was in again on the side of the net. and wow did you see the clip somebody posted on i can't remember if it was twitter or ticot or something but they they were i love i love i love how much you bring up ticot by the way i i got two teenagers man i got a i got i either know how to speak to language yeah um but it was uh somebody they were in the crowd and when uh when the hurricane scored to tie it they they started recording just the just to get the sense of how loud the crowd was and everything when it was 3-3

and then happened to get the nine seconds of play that then led to the goal and the roof blowing off the place and it was, it's something, man. Is there, do you come back from that

if you're the Islanders or is that, is that, no, I don't, I don't think so. I think maybe if, I do, look,

lots of teams come back from, from two-o deficits. It happens. I don't think it's happening here. I don't think they're built for it, and I certainly don't think the hurricanes are built,

to build the, you know, let that one slip against that particular team. And I know, of course, what's going to happen is, whatever, Islanders in seven, because I've done it now, but whatever, it's fine. But because you know what, it's also, it's even putting aside the final score, even putting aside the devastating collapse, the Caroline was dominating that game. Like the Islanders were going to steal one was going to be the storyline of that. Correct. They went in, they stole the role game, they did what you need to do, and now you reset.

I'm always, I'm always hesitant to call games like that hockey justice or whatever, because goaltending is part of the, part of the deal. Like, they deserve some degree of credit, always, always, always. But that fell pretty close. The fact that that's the result that ended up, you know, coming to pass was, was, yeah, was. And I get like some of it is the score effects of, you know, when you have a three nothing lead, the other team's going to be pressing. But yeah, that, that anytime you're talking about an underdog, which certainly the Islanders were in this series, the key to me is always like it doesn't matter how how big the disparity is these days at least in the parody era where it's, you know, you still get two good teams against each other. There's going to be a few games that are up for grabs.

and if if the underdog team can find a way to steal those ones then who knows then you got a series you know beat you got it you got to bank those two games that are going to be up for grabs and and if you let one wriggle off the hook you kind of can kind of be in trouble and that was that was an all time off the hook totally i think on some level that that brings me to what i've learned over the last week uc sorrows might be doing exactly what can Fox fans feared that he would. That game last night, it wasn't,

that wasn't a straight up goalie game. Close enough. Casey DeSmith comes in. Thatcher Demko's hurt. The Smith, you know, couldn't quite get it done. He's playing across the crease

from a top 10 goal 10 in the league who looked at last night, right? We knew coming into this series, you know, we talked about Charlie Lindgren, you know, maybe being able to do that for the caps. It hasn't come to pass.

we knew that if the Preds were going to make this work, there was going to need to be one or two of these games where UC Soros was in top form. And I think we got that last night. Joe Rexrod wrote about it on the site for us, specifically about Saros. It's a 401 win. That's a deceptive score.

That game was closer, you know, than the final score, you know, let on. And it was because Saros, Saros was really good, right? So we come into these series and you look at it, you look at both teams and you say, like, what would it take for Team X to win this or underdog X to win this? And in Nashville, for Nashville, that's exactly what we're watching come to pass, isn't it? Yeah.

And obviously the Thatcher Demko situation, we don't have clarity on it as we're having this conversation. We probably won't because it's a week to week. week to week. He went from day to day yesterday during the day when we first found out that he wasn't going to be playing and then after the game week to week. That's not good. I don't have to tell Canucks fans that,

but that is not, when you go from day to day to week to week, you're probably not looking at like, you know, he'll be back next Tuesday sort of deal. So we don't know what. It's our second big mystery injury of the playoffs with Willie Nealander as well.

But that is really not good because, I mean, there's not a lot of NHL teams where you go, oh yeah, if you lose your starting goaltender, one game into the playoffs, you'll be okay. But the Canucks are certainly a team where that was, that was a big part of the story this year, is that Thatcher Demko was back as an elite goaltender. He was back as an elite goaltender. and then we saw what they look like without him down the stretch. Like Vancouver, I'm not,

I'm not here to, you know, dump on or bring a PDO or whatever. Not true. Thatcher Demco just flat out as a big part of their success. That's fine. That's the way it goes. And now he's out of the lineup.

It's nerve-wracking stuff, especially when you have, again, Saros playing as well as he was. And you have Philip Forsberg doing, you know, 50 goals scores. type stuff last night. That was just a ridiculous, humiliating goal on Casey to Smith, honestly.

Give us, as a Pittsburgh guy, give us the scouting report on Casey to Smith. He's short, not that bad, but if you play him for a protracted amount of times, or for a protracted amount of games, you're going to have a tough time. Like, I love that dude to come in, play the second half of back to backs, spots start when necessary, give maybe give a starter, you know, four days of rest, start a couple consecutive games. I don't think I would trust him in a playoff series because he gets hurt too. The Canucks also, that's the other thing. The Canucks also have an injury prone backup in addition to having an injury prone starter. So we could be seen, and we're going to have, you know, a few games at least it looks like here of the Casey

to Smith experience. So we might. I thought maybe we could get you a little bit of confidence there, Canucks fans. That didn't go as well as I was hoping. We all had to live through the Louis Deming memes for a reason, and that's because Casey just got hurt when he was starting during a playoff series. So I don't know. I'm not trying to put that on Vancouver, but it's something to remember. All right, we got Frankie here this week.

He's here to talk about the Maple Leafs, and he's here to talk in depth about the Jets, and we had a really good talk with him about the Panthers. as well amongst other stuff. Stick around. It's after the break. All right, we're back. Frankie's here. Frankie Carado.

TSN 1050. TSN TV. Oh, buddy. We're in playoff mode here. Are you? Are you ready? Have you hit the ground running? Yeah.

I mean, I haven't hit the wall yet. I think that's what, you know, with the first round of the playoffs, it's bedlam, man. It's like night after night,

early game, late game stuff's happening. It's been great. Like the hockey's been great. the moments like you know I think in the playoffs you kind of want those big moments those captivating moments we've had a little taste of that I think we're going to have more as time goes on but it's been full full value for for entertainment so far let's talk about last night rangers 4 3 Florida 3 2 Colorado 5 2 Nashville 401 you're talking about moments what

coming out of last night was was the moment for you was there something that stuck I think the Florida Panthers own the moment. Like every single time there is a big moment up for grabs, seemingly they grab it. Whether it's Carter Verhegey, who's now got five playoff overtime goals, which was him third all time. Like out of nowhere seemingly, whether it's the Florida Panthers who have now won 11 playoff overtime games in a row. Like if you go to overtime with the Panthers, you are losing that game. Whether it's Bobrovsky, who always seems to make the big. save at the right time over the last couple of years.

They just have players who show up and capture those big moments. And if you are another fan base, if you are another team and you watch that, it's got to be hard to not be envious of that because those are so many moments that could swing in either direction and can change the complexion of a series of your whole playoff outlook. And they always seem to get the upper hand in those situations. And it's obviously a huge reason why they had the success they had last year. And here they are now this year in a tight series against Tampa Bay. Like, give Tampa a lot of credit.

Like I know John Cooper didn't like his team's performance in game one. I thought they were really good yesterday. But it just goes to show you, like, you know, Florida, not only are they well built, not only do they have so many different elements and roles to their team, they, when the chips are down or there's a big moment up for grabs, seemingly they capture it almost every time. If you're old enough, it's shades of the 93 halves when they at the 10 straight overtime wins in one playoff year and obviously won the cup that year.

I, man, I go back and forth on this. I got to be honest with you. Because if you look at the NHL in the big picture, we tend to. to find that once you get a game to overtime, certainly in the regular season when it's three on three, but even in the playoffs, it's basically a coin flip. They're home away. It doesn't really make. It's 50-50.

And so when you see a team like Florida run this off, there is part of me that goes, yeah, man, every now and then, every once in a great while, the coin's just going to come up heads 10 times in a row. And that's going to make potentially a pretty good team look like an absolute, dynasty out there. They're going to look like championship material when maybe they're just a team that keeps getting the right balance

in overtime. And you think that way, if it's five, six, or maybe seven in a row. But you start to get to this point. Is there something here? Like, have they unlocked something? And whether it's, frankly, you're saying the players,

you know, whether it's maybe become self-perpetuating. Maybe it's just luck for the first five or six times. And then you start looking around the room going, guys, it's overtime. This is our, this is our zone. This is where we win. And the other team's going, oh, crap, we're in overtime with the Panthers.

And they're sitting back. I don't know. I can't figure it out, but it's a hell of a run. There's interesting. There's two players I want to talk about here. You mentioned both of them. We got to talk about Carter Verhegey. Like, the growth in that guy's game over the last four seasons,

because 2020, he's in Tampa, you know, kind of doesn't have a, Ross or spot. He plays a lot in the HL. He ends up in Florida, 2021, pretty good. 2022, a little better. I saw this staff from our buddy, Corey Snyder last night, and it boggled my mind. In the last two seasons, this is including the playoffs. So last season into this one, he's played 190 total games, 105 goals. Like, what, like, what is, this guy, the dude is, he's got 105 goals in his last 190 190 games across all situations.

Like this dude is unbelievable. Yes, it's clutch moments in overtime. We saw the stat. That's crazy enough. But like this guy's body of work over the last few seasons is like legitimately, we're verging on top shelf here. He's fantastic.

And he's a huge part of what they're doing, right? It's crazy. I know. I know. And it just goes to show you like, Florida seems to find these kinds of guys or brings it out in these kinds of guys or they've believed in guys that maybe were like you said, like on the up and up, you know, played in Tampa, started to kind of progress in his career and they were the ones that were able to

unlock the most of his potential, similar to Jonathan Marchesot. Like Jonathan Marchesaw was a good, like he was in Tampa. He was fine. He was, you know, he wasn't a huge impact player, goes to Florida. and all the sudden he's, you know, he's a really good player and they let him slip. You know, I think of another player in Florida who's similar to that is, is Gus Forreisley, where, you know, traded early on before he even turns pro from Vancouver to Chicago, goes to Chicago, he's a tweener.

He's up and down, ends up going to Carolina. They don't give him a game. Like, they never even gave him a look in Carolina. And now he moves over to Florida, gets an opportunity there. And, you know, he's one of the better defensemen playing right now on the plus. He's going to be, he's going to be, mark my words, he's like a fringe Norris ballot guy. Like, I, it would not surprise me if he pops up on. He's going to be known as the best value contract in the NHL for a long time after signing

that extension. And I think he's, I think he'd be okay with that just with the way things have gone. But I don't know, like, you think about the personalities in that Florida room. Like, if you ever listen to or watch some of the interviews after the game, whether it's Kach, where it's Ryan Harb, Ben. it like a lot of it stems from from uh barcov as well just his kind of demeanor um even montour for that for that matter like he's he's a confident guy and i think that confidence kind of permeates through the room and you know it's a dangerous thing when and it's kind of contagious when you have a group

that all thinks like that and it's it's hard for other teams to kind of wrap their head around because it's not just one guy who thinks like that it's not just kachuk it's like as a group they really believe that in any kind of situation, they have the firepower to beat you. And not only the firepower to beat you, they have the fortitude to kind of say, we're going to lock it down at this moment and whether the storm here.

And I don't know, there's just, there's something about that. When you get all the right pieces together and the personalities really mesh, it's pretty dangerous. That's what's going on with Florida. Yeah. And just like to get back to these guys

that they keep bringing in and elevating, like where does it come from? Because typically my first thought would be coaching, but the Panthers have had three different head coaches in the last couple of years. So, you know, and I'd love to know what the formula is. And I know every owner in the league is probably on the phone at the GM going, why don't we do this? Why don't we just go out and get castoffs and turn them into 40 goal scores?

Like what's, is this something? Is it from the top? top on down? Is there somebody in the organization that we don't even know about who's unlocking these guys? Is it luck? You know, where does it all come from? I think it has to be a little bit of luck. You also have to think like Billy Zito has taken chances on guys or maybe underperforming in certain situations. Like Sam Bennett at one point was like not a factor for the Calgary Flames. Think about that. That wasn't very long ago. And now it's like if Sam Bennett is not on the ice,

it's very noticeable, right? Like he's been such a physical presence, and of course the offense goes with it. Like bringing in Sam Reinhart, are you kidding me? Like basically the Florida Panthers said, we like the 2014 draft so much. We're going to go get three of the top 10 picks

and we're just going to have them on our team. And they did. And you know what? Anyone could have done it. Anyone could have got Gus Forsling. Like a lot of these guys that Florida brought in, Carter Verhagie, I don't know.

They were available to people. They could have made, other teams could have made these trades. I think like Bill Zito is bold. He's not afraid to make a move. And from the sounds of it, he believes in a lot of what the people around him tell him. You know,

like the, he will lean on his, his scouting staff, which is, which I think is really important because those are the guys, you know, pounding the pavement, watching the games and they have a good feel for things.

So you take a bunch of plans. So you take a bunch of players that you think they have a little bit more, and they've maybe shown that, and they had a little pedigree in the past, and there you go, that's what you get. But the fact that he has those three guys, Ekblad, Reinhardt and Bennett, all from, like, high in the first round in the 2014 draft is bonkers to me. Like, completely, like, he should win GM of the year every year just for having that comprised on his team. He should win it again.

He won it last year. you should win again this year because I think part of it is part of it is is his own like obviously his own base of knowledge because the dude was in Columbus for a long time he was an agent for longer before that but the organization that he runs it's not the biggest hockey ops department either like like he doesn't have a staff of you know whatever 25 people working on you but but i i look at that roster and i see an ability to blend like traditional more traditional scouting finding guys like Brandon Montor who's like a toolsy guy that who for a stretch of his career did not have great numbers, but but has, you know, has the raw physical ability, I think, I think to make it work.

You have guys like that kind of interspersed with, you know, with the, with the, with the, with the stat guys. Honestly, like, like there's, there's a perfect blend up and down that lineup and I just, I don't know. I'm, I love the way that teams put together. It's really tough. I try not to just pick them in every game they play once. playoffs roll around but I feel like I feel like that's where I'm rolling where that where I'm rolling here honestly like they're they're really really good yeah and then and then if you look at

the roster on any given night there's there's guys that maybe the stats people like and there's one defenseman that the stats people hate and I believe that's all of our Ekman Larson correct me if I'm wrong but like the stats people have not been kind to him over the course of his career especially up until this season absolutely right and and he's healthy and there's another one. You take a swing on a guy, and it's not a massive swing because he got bought out, so you're getting him at a cheaper Aav. But you're the one that took the chance, and you bring him in, and he's been nothing but fantastic for them this year. Like one of the better stories. So there's another swing that you make that ultimately helps your team. And I don't

know, if you're another GM around the league, you take a look at that and you're like, I don't know, man, those guys seem to have figured it out. Figured it out. Winnipeg, like Winnipeg really won their trade this summer, right? And then, you know, because they get rid of Dubois, they bring in Valardi, they bring in IAFLO. Both those guys have been big contributors to their team, and the jets are better off that way. But that was, that was an interesting one last night. Like, I thought we really got to see Colorado assert their game plan, especially in the second period. Some of it was self-inflicted by Winnipeg. Some of it was Colorado kind of showing that, hey, we're fast.

We're going to play in the offensive zone. We got mobile defensemen who are going to make it hard for you to check us in the offensive zone. And Georgiev showed he is an NHL goalie. He's not a beer league goalie. He is capable of putting together a good stretch of hockey. And he was good last night. And that was a big reason why the aves were able to win.

There were so many people yesterday screaming for the avalanche to start a backup goalie. without knowing who the backup goalie was. Did you see, I saw that anybody else? Did you see people in game one being like start Eustace and Onen? I don't even know how to pronounce his last name, honestly. He wasn't the back. He was sick. He wasn't even the backup.

They'd have bring up a dude to back up Georgiev in game one. And people were still like, yeah, whatever. Like, okay, is he? Oh, it's him? Like, put him out there. Put him out there. That's fine. Sure.

Unreal. It's crazy. And now, like for Colorado, they're going back to Home Ice where they had the best home record in the NHL all season long. I don't know, for Winnipeg Honor Hallibuck had a very, very good season. He's

probably going to win the Vesna. He hasn't looked like a Vesna caliber goaltender yet in the playoffs. And does it with his game, does it scream to you, I can steal a series right now? Because I don't see that in him. Of course, he's capable

of it, but I don't know what it is about, you know, him or his game or his mentality, but I just don't, I don't see him really, really laser focused and dialed in the way you see him most nights in the regular season. Man, it's,

okay, here's the flip side of that. If I'm a Jets fan, I'm going, we, Connor Hallibuck just got his two worst games of the playoffs out of the way. Like this, this is a guy,

I don't know that he had two terrible games during the whole season. It wasn't terrible. I mean, you know, it's, but, He hasn't been good. He just got his two worst games out of the way.

We're still tied one, one. Let's go. You know, he'll, he'll clamp it down. I mean, you need him to, obviously. There's no world where the Winnipeg Jets go on a long playoff run with below average goaltending from Connor Hellibuck. Like, that's baked into the recipe for them. But, I mean, there was that stretch last night early on where it looked like they were

going to start trading goals again. And I found myself being like, wow, abs, ab's brutal. like they walked into it again with with Georgia and I'm like oh wait a second uh there's another there's another goalie on the other end of the ice who is also who's the other guy who's alternating goals with Alexander Georgiev like I don't I mean I look I think I love the I love how like everything changes in one game like that's the entire narrative changes I wrote that the jets were going to sweep Colorado like did we actually think like Colorado was going to not only does Colorado have a chance to win the series they were obviously going to

put up a very good fight. I think I picked Colorado to win last night. So whatever. Like I did not think the Jets were going to sweep. But man, I don't want to give excuses for Hullabuck because he wasn't good enough. He hasn't been great in two straight games. I thought the Jets were brutal last night. Brutal.

I don't know how many dudes on that team. There was that there was that stretch where they killed a penalty and it looked like stuff was going to flip. I thought five on five there were generally really bad last night. And I think that that, you know, that doesn't bode well for the rest of it. I don't know. It was a rough watch last night in a lot of spots for that, my thought. So talk about handling the momentum swings.

And you got that crazy crowd in Winnipeg and Pat McAfee's talking about it every day. He wants to get to Winnipeg, but it's too far. he took a look on the map. And then, you know, you get that four-minute penalty kill and the crowd is rocking. And then Mark Shifley, one of your best players, goes down the ice shortly after, scores a one-handed goal. And you think, okay, that's the moment. Like, that's the one where it's like, you know, it could have been the lows of the low.

You end up coming out on top. And then the self-inflicted wounds start to happen. Hellebuck goes out to play the puck. And it's a hard for check for sure. But that's a miscue. that costs you a goal. Then there's a botched line change going to the bench. Like Eilers is going to the bench.

Monaghan's going to the bench. And Manson comes out of the box. Valardi is coming out with him. He's doing the right thing. He stayed with his guy. But he's just, he's got a 15 foot separation that he can't make up. And that's one right there where you're like,

Vesna Hellebuck makes the save on Manson on the breakaway. And those are the ones where it's like, maybe you need that kind of save to, help you out. But the other thing that's really kind of come into the forefront here in this series is the offensive zone possession between both these teams is not even close right now. Just in the second period alone. So the second period finishes and it's Colorado 4-1. The expected goals for Colorado in that period are just under two. Like it's 1.9. The expected for Winnipeg is 0.46 and the offensive zone possession time is three and a half minutes for Colorado.

Colorado and one minute and 15 seconds for the Winnipeg Jets. Like you talk about being concerned. That right there is a great example. And it's, and it's, you know, we're nitpicking one period, but that is what would worry me if I were Winnipeg is if that starts to happen, you know, two periods a game or no, game after game. Like, how do you overcome that deficit? Because that's going to be, like, if Colorado has the puck that much, you're just,

you're just not going to win that series. because they're getting it from their bottom six, right? Like it's not just their high-end guys. Like Miles Woods been really good in both games. Like they're getting contributions down the lineup in a way that I think people were concerned that they wouldn't. Like they've shown depth Colorado has even though whatever game one was what it was. But I think the play that they've gotten from their depth guys has to be heartening for them moving forward. Because that was like that was their big wart.

And it's been it's been pretty good. Nathan McKinnon's been good so far, but we haven't had the Nathan McKinnon game. Right. And you feel like that's coming at some point. Yeah, you account for certain things, right? Like you account, you know going into a series, you're going to get the McKinnon game. If you're Toronto, you know at some point you're going to get the Pastor Nack game. You're going to get the Marchand game maybe, but you did get the Matthews game.

And man, was that nice for Leafs fans to get that? And that does a couple things. Like, obviously you go home now with a split. that's huge. Austin Matthews has the big performance. By the way, that breakaway goal that he scores, I don't think I've ever seen him pull that move off. I don't think I've ever seen him score that goal. Like, it's just, it just goes to show you, like the guys just got way too many cool. I think he's still sliding off into the corner. You know what it reminds me? I said this on the other show yesterday, and this is, as a Leafs fan, this is a very unusual experience for me.

but when that when I saw him going on that breakaway with eight minutes left in a tied playoff game, I'm like, this is a goal. It's Austin Matthews. This is, he's going to score because he just, he's, he's that guy this here, which I'm not used to thinking stuff like that. And what's it like to have one of those guys? Yeah. First time. He's treading cautiously optimistic right now.

But when, when I saw that move get pulled off, I instantly thought of the old Nazim-Cadjury shootout move, where he goes really hard to the backhand and kind of gets the goalie to bite. Like I don't, I've never seen Matthews do that. But the other thing that does is maybe buys a little bit of time for Mitch Marner to have the Marner game, which Leifes fans are dying for. Like it just, it seems so difficult for Marner to have that big night where he's the guy who takes charge of the game and takes control. And it seems like it's a little far away.

But he's got an opportunity tonight on home ice to, to have the Marner game. And, you know, at some point, Pastor Neck's going to have his night. And that'll be, you know, how do you counteract that? Well, your best right winger going up against their best right winger. Like, I don't know, you have to win that matchup at some point. If people, you know, especially outside of Ontario,

didn't see it. The front page of the Toronto Sun yesterday, Mitch Marner, the invisible man. And they did it up like a great. They took a picture of Mitch Marner. and photoshopped it in so he looks invisible. And it was attached to a Steve Simmons column where the column itself was pretty even-handed, actually. I'm talking about Marner.

But this is officially a thing in Toronto. And I'll say, I think in Toronto, having the Toronto son do that to a guy probably buys him a bit more time. Like in a lot of places, it would ramp up the pressure. But this is like almost, it was so over the top that maybe it, maybe it dials down. at it, DGB, they look at it and they see, well, the Toronto Sun wrote this. So, okay, we'll give them the benefit of the doubt because the sun, they're a little volatile at times. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like the New York Post looks at the Toronto Sun and it's like, guys, dial it down.

Come on. Like, that's, I think it's some of that. But Frank, like, we always hear, Frankie, like from NHL players, they always unanimously say, we don't listen to the media. We tune it out. We don't look at the newspapers. Is there any chance that something like that, like that, like, Like that Mitch Marner isn't super hyper aware of the fact that he's getting treated like this.

And I guess from there, does that motivate him or does it, I guess we find out what kind of personality he's got, whether that fires him up or he goes the other way. I hope, I hope for his sake he doesn't see that kind of stuff because there's nothing constructive that's going to come out of that. That's not like some motivational moment seeing that in the Toronto Sun. like the motivation kind of comes from within. And we should say, but, but Mitch Marner, like,

he is a guy that, and I've been critical of him too, the production hasn't been there in the playoffs. It's not lack of effort. This is not a guy who's just, you know, snapping his way through the plate. Like,

if anything, it's the opposite. Like, there have been playoff games where it's not going well for him. And the guy looks like he's going to cry on the, he's sitting on the bench. He's sitting on,

like he clearly wants so bad. to be like the Doug Gilmore of this generation. But his game hasn't translated. I know. I mean, you kind of feel for the guy, but then also for $11 million, you kind of need it. It's $11 million, but also it's wanted every last penny, and it's also threatened to go play in Switzerland. You know what I mean? You start thinking about all that stuff, and you're like, okay, man.

It comes with it. And he's an extension this summer. So, I mean, this is, I mean, not only does this guy. I don't doubt for a second, desperately, desperately want to win a Stanley Cup, want to do it in Toronto, want to be the local hero and all that. If he has a terrible playoff, I mean, it's going to cost it millions of dollars because it's... Why, Frank, why is this happening? Like, is this a physical thing with him?

Is it a mental thing? I do think part of it is his game doesn't translate as well to a playoff the playoffs where there's just... Mitch Martin's thing during the regular season is he is a wiser. wizard with time and space. And, and he needs a fraction of the time that anyone else would need to, to make a play. And he's one of those guys where when he's on, he's making plays where you're like, how did he even see that? It didn't even occur to me to do any, do that with the puck until I saw him do it. But in the playoffs, sometimes there, there just is no time and space at all. There's zero. And then, so now it's, how do you fight through? How do you create that? And it's,

hasn't been there for him. I mean, he's not, he's, Mitch Marner is a guy that I find that a lot of other fans around the league seem to think he's like this small little guy. And he's, he's not, like, he's a decent size guy,

but he's certainly not a big, strong physical guy who's going to, like, you know, go to the front of the net and get cross-checked four times and score his goal that way. Um, but we have seen it.

Like, he's had some really nice games in the playoffs. It just, uh, it just hasn't happened lately. And again, like, I mean,

I'm all for, like, get get your money guys like did the NHL the way it treats players go ahead and get your money but if he's making six or seven or eight million this is not its biggest story as it is the fact that he's making david pastor neck money and if he was making if he's making 9.9 million dollars this this wouldn't be happening there's something about the big number about the action and the way the way it happened i'm telling you about the extra comma or whatever where where people in in the way he got it frankly absolutely the well there's two things for me that

there's two things with Marner. When Marner plays his best hockey and when he really kind of burst on to the scene, he was a fearless player. Like remember that year against the Bruins where he's diving head first in front of that shot to block it in the dying seconds of the game? Like, you know, and you talk about his size. Yes, he's not the biggest guy. Always willing, though, to go through the high traffic areas and try and make things happen. And then you watch last game and you're like, man, that he really bailed out on Charlie McAvoy in the corner there. And, you know, when you're, when you're watching that, you're like, I've seen you, I've seen you play fearless hockey before. And if you're not going to do it in the playoffs, when are you going to do it? And

why aren't you willing to do it right now? And the other thing, you know, when it comes to Marner, because of the way he plays where he has to distribute the puck, he has to find ways to have the puck in areas where he can distribute it to more dangerous areas. So what does that entail? You have to play through a little bit of contact. Like you have to be willing to get through a little bit of the chop that's out there come playoff time. And people see that.

And it doesn't happen all the time in the playoffs. And they say, well, the time and space is not going to be there for you. You kind of have to push the envelope a little bit and create it yourself. And, you know, if you do it, you know, 70% of the time in the regular season, you have to do it 80, 85% of the time during the playoffs. Like, it's just not going to be easy for you. And everyone is being asked to do a little bit more. You know, like Matthews is being asked to do a little bit more.

The D-Core is being asked to do a little bit more. Elia Samsonoff is being asked to be a little more competitive in the net. Like, if you cannot see a puck, can you battle through and try and look on both sides? And Mitch Marner, like everyone, has to do a little bit more. while not making it seem like it's, you know, more is giving him less, where he's squeezing the stick, where he's trying to do too much. Like he does this play in the offensive zone that drives me nuts sometimes, where he kind of like circles high into the zone.

He sends this little sifter wrist shot to the net. Nothing happens. The offensive zone time ends. And it's like in the regular season, that is a little bit of a spin-off. That's, hey, I'm going to slip a puck under your stick high in the zone. That doesn't really happen in the playoffs. And I think that just goes to show you, like, that fearlessness that he plays with at times sometimes doesn't translate to the playoffs.

But the positive thing is, you know what's there. Like, you know he can get to it. It's just he's got to find a way to mentally wrap his head around it. And he gets an opportunity to do that tonight on home ice. And the great thing is, all it takes is one game, you know, and obviously you're going to have to have better performances after that. But you get that one game. If he has the Marner Knight,

no one is going to remember what happened in game one and two, and everyone is going to be talking about how brilliant he was in game three. That's the no we should leave on, because I know you got to go, but everyone's, you just, you just, look,

look how happy Sean is. He's so ready. That was the most positive, uh, I've taken. I'm, I'm ready to go. Yeah.

Should be fun. Or else. All right. Frankie, thanks for the time, bud. We'll talk to you soon. See you guys. Enjoy the games.

I have a couple series we haven't hit yet. Figured we would clean that up in the third segment. There are no comments this week because everybody was too busy focusing on our guest last week who shall remain harmless, which we'll try again next week. Sean, we got Vegas, Dallas tonight, and we got L.A. Edmonton tonight as well. Let's start with the Golden Knights. How many goals does Mark Stone have tonight and does the number start? with a three. Yeah.

Well, good old Mark Stone. He's good for him. Looking healthy again. I wonder what a recovery. I'm tired of this. How much does this bother you of the LTIR stuff? Like what part of the discussion annoys you? Because I think there are several now with me.

I think now we're at the point where it's like, okay, we've, we've had the discussion. We've gone around and around on it. Look, I get it everything Vegas is doing is legal according to the rules. they are not the only team to have done this. They're not the only team that would do it. It also, I get why for fans, it doesn't feel like this is fair based on the spirit of the rules. It certainly does feel like they're getting away with something here. And yeah, look, the fact that it's Vegas, Vegas has become the league's team you love to hate.

If you're not a Vegas fan, this is the team that's the most fun. to root against because they've had, because they're the defending champs, because of the way they do business, because they, how aggressive they are, and because they've been in the league for what,

60 years now and have never had an especially bad season, right? Like they've never had to say, they miss the playoffs once. Oh, heartbreaking. So it feels like it's too much too soon, all of this stuff.

So it's the perfect storm, but at this point, it's like, okay, I mean, the rule is what it is. We all know this. the people who are mad about it are sick and tired of being lectured about how it's technically okay on the rules.

I think I've made that mistake a little bit too frequently over the last month. I'm done. I'm done pointing that one out. And and, and, but you know, the people who aren't furious about this, like, it's like, yeah, we were mad about Patrick Kane in 2015 or whatever. We were mad about Kutra. Like, yes, we've been doing this for eight years now. clearly the league doesn't feel like it's a big problem. And so, yeah, here we go.

We all knew what was going to happen with Mark Stone as soon as he went on the LTIR and they, you know, they started giving the rough timelines. We all knew where this was going. So here we are. And, yeah, I get that you have your own solution to this and, you know, here's what the league should change. And it's probably a CBA thing, which means we probably have to deal with it for another. couple years and until then

Vegas nights are going to keep doing what they do which is be the absolute most aggressive team at using every possible leverage point to put together as strong a roster as they can for the playoffs. I think my that's how it works man. My big suggestion for

Dallas account and all this would be to have Jake God and Jamaica save. Yeah, that could be good. It was not good in game one. I mean, doesn't it feel like inch of everyone is like this feels like a game that if you've if you've been a fan in the n-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-hallis is winning this game because this is this is the series that's going to go seven and when a series is going to go seven obviously you know the road team

isn't going to come in and win the first two and i just there's that part of me that like always wants to go against the conventional wisdom i think we all pick dallas in our you you know, in our daily picks and a, boy, couldn't you see this being one where, you know, we all go in, all go, right, it's the Dallas. And then it's 2-0 Vegas, four minutes in and we're all kind of looking around. I'll go, wait a second. Maybe this seven-game series isn't going to be the seven-game series we were promised. Vegas and five, can't bounce my cup pick in the first round.

I picked Dallas the start of the season, so I stuck with them. I was exactly the same. I just showed some, tried to show some integrity, whatever. that'll teach us that'll teach me it was a great game one I mean the game one delivered as far as

I mean the star power in this series that everything is going to be is going to be fantastic I hope it goes seven even putting aside any rooting interest or you know who my picks were like give me

it's like a cliche this time of year where every time there's like five good minutes in a game one people are like give me seven games of this but yeah give me seven games of this I have that's exactly what I want. Yeah, like I said, just give me a game or two of Jake Cottonger making a save. That would that would be helpful.

Yeah. Some guy had five assists in that first. I said this yesterday. I think Connor McDavid is mad that Kutra of joined him in the 100 assist club. And so now he's going to get 100 assists in a playoff run. You need you would he would need to average about five assists a game. I feel like he's got that in. He's like,

Zach, go stand in your spot, put your stick down, lean on it hard. Puck's going to be bouncing off of it. I'll tell you what, if he's facing bad Cam Talbot, rather than good Cam Talbot,

I mean, was it a chance? Bad Camp Talbot or was it not, Jacques Plont Camp Talbot, so you weren't stopping this, this Oilers out. Like, oh man,

that is exactly, you never, I mean, there's no such thing as a good loss in the playoffs, but if you're a Kings fan, That was the nightmare scenario. Yep. Was that entire game.

It was, I'd be like outclassed is a, is a word that got thrown, they got tossed around with that series a lot, but it felt, it felt that way. I mean, it's, I know, and if you're a Kings fan, you're going, look like we've, we gave these guys a series two years in a row. And in theory, this King's team is the best of the three, right? but didn't look that way at game one. And I think that was sort of, that was sort of the way I felt coming into it

was that the Kings are better now than they were last season. And they're better than they were the season before that. So are the Oilers. The Oilers are, this is not the 2022 Oilers. This is not the 2023 Oilers. Like, they're, they're loaded up and Stuart Skinner's good.

Like, this is, we're not, we're not, he is. Good. Good or good enough? Good enough. Okay. Good enough. That's different.

That's all I need. Let me ask you this. We've, because I think we've talked all eight series now. Mm-hmm. When we talk next Wednesday, I think most of these series will have played at least two more games, maybe three. Mm-hmm. Which series of the eight do you think is most likely to be in a completely different place than that we're, where we come in and we go, hey, oh, sort of. Hey guys, forget what we said last week

because this series just took a hard 180 and I don't know, is there one? Leaves Bruins. Uh-oh. Leaves in five? Which direction? Leaves in five.

Is it possible for the series to be wrapped up by the time we, by the time we talk next? No, because they've got uh, uh, oh actually yeah, I think game five is Tuesday. Because they,

there's extra days or, around each of the but yeah they go Wednesday Saturday and then I think it's Tuesday so leaves in five I'm not even I'm not even speaking I'm doing like I'm I'm I'm the catcher while the pitch is working on the no hitter

I'm just eyes down to the dugout floor holding his hand over his mouth to stop from saying something he shouldn't um hey old guys without a cup drop today yeah it's like my favorite son of spring. I'm not alone there. Yes, right? We love an old guy without a cup. It's our favorite

favorite hockey playoff trope. The grizzled old guy trying to win his first ring. Do we want to spoil who is number one here or do we want to I don't think it's much of a spoiler. It's the same guy who was number one last year. It's Joe Pavelski.

I mean, that's the guy that I think we, the former shark, he's 39, he's been around for 18 seasons, I think. Still good. I thought maybe Parisi would be top four for you. Scored last night.

Parize was up there. Where did I have them? Do you have the... Yeah. Perizze, you know, Brent Burns is the other one that is sort of top of mind for a lot of people. And then the guy that I threw in their third that I think some people are forgetting about is Kyle Okosom, who is with. the Florida Panthers

didn't didn't play a game I don't think he playing game too either I'm assuming they kept the same lineup so I mean that's but

that's a guy where there's a unlike Pavelsky and Burns you would assume there's a legitimate chance this is it for him and given

what he went through you know a few years ago I feel like he's one of the very best options out there and then Paris is right there too it's a good year

it's a good year. And like I say in the intro, like I do this call them every year. People are aware and then going back years and years. Last year, the Vegas Golden Knights didn't have anyone. They didn't have a single old guy without a cup, which means we didn't, like usually we lose a couple of guys just to

winning a cup. We didn't, we didn't roll over anyone. We had a few guys missed the playoffs. The Minnesota Wilde were kind enough to, in the hurt a little bit by missing out. But which one of these guys, which one of these guys hurt you the most to put on the list? knowing that they are now in fact an old guy because I have a pick.

Tyler Myers was the guy. Because I remember him winning the Calder like two years ago. And as I say in the piece, he, Tyler Myers has played in the playoffs for the Buffalo Sabres. That's how old. Is there any better indicator that you're old as hell? Yeah.

You're like, yeah, you know what? I've played in the playoffs for the Sabers. So, I mean, that one, yeah. Who was yours? It's Crider. Yeah. It's Crider.

That one hurts. I covered his first. So he jumped straight. You remember this. He jumped straight into the playoffs from Boston College. I think it was 2012, I want to say. And I covered that series. It was Caps Rangers.

And it physically hurts me to know that that dude, after being like, oh, holy, holy, like this. Look how it was, he's just a baby. He was in college, he was in college classes four days ago. And now it's flash forward. He's on the old guy's list. I need to take a lap. The other one for me was Sam Gagne, went from like Dave Gagne's kid, just got drafted by the Oilers.

But although, as I say in the piece, he's a guy where like, you could have told me that he was still in his 20s. you could have told me he'd been retired for five years. Like there are certain guys where you just lose the age range on them. And it's, um, and, like Matthew Shane,

you know, the one shows up on the list this year. Matthew Shane has looked exactly the same. Yeah. Since his drafting. Like this dude is not aging at all. So I don't know, man.

It's, uh, yeah, it's, it's always a tough, tough exercise. Brittle. This is like such a downbeat note to end on.

Just like, oh, yeah, we're, but one of these guys is going to win the cup. I think there's only one team that didn't have, I think it's, I'm assuming it's Vegas again. It's Vegas again? Yeah, because I'm going back and forth.

I'm not, I'm not seeing. Everyone else had at least somebody. So somebody's going to get like that first cup handoff. Usually the, you know, it's a big emotional moment. So, you know, I don't think there's a Ray Bork on this year's list, but, you know, Favelsky. I have thought. The Dallas stars have got like eight guys who could have been on the list.

So I mean, Vegas, if Vegas knocks Dallas out, I'm going to assume Vegas has got, like, is the anti-old guy without a cop. They're ages. They're just going around hunting them down one at a time and taking them out. I had that thought watching Perisi's score last night because, of course, it brought up, right? Like, you know, it's his last season. As contractually obligated, they brought up the Ray Bork situation with the Avs way back when. And the fact that Zach Preezy, he's, he's an, he's a, another one you mentioned one of those guys but matthew shane looking exactly like exactly the same

for 15 years that same goes for preasy he's he looks he's indistinguishable now from when he was with the devils it just got me thinking about about that visual juxtaposed with ray bork who looked how old was he when like when when when when they went he was 40 or 41 he was 40 okay he looked like he looked like he was he looks younger now than he did when he won the cup with with with abs because he had the gray beard coming and he looked just well you know and we should say like a lot of these guys we talk about they look young they look young now in game one of the playoffs let's two months from now zach perise might you know he might have the log old guy beer but the other thing was that he's going on 18 19 years i think no cup his dad played 14 years

didn't win a cup you know so i mean the the family no one will ever top the stasney family I think they had something like 60 combined years with no Stanley Cup between the four of them. But this is right up there too. That's why I love doing a show with you is because you know off the top of your head how long the Stassney families and all of them played without winning the cup. You ask me like who's playing tonight in the playoffs and I don't know, but I can pull. Unsure. There's simply. There's stuff.

There's simply no way to know. Yeah. All right, buddy. We'll do this again next week. maybe Frank you'll be here maybe not you're going to tune in to see enjoy the games might be at the Leafs victory parade according to you least in five thank you folks for listening to the show leave us a five-star rating if that's your thing on Thursday it'll be Haley and Max and me do the same thing talk about games we'll look ahead to the next playoff action and Sean and

and I will be back next week