The Athletic Hockey Show - Can Igor Shesterkin and Ranger specialty teams be stopped?

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

Sean and Sean praise the work of Igor Shesterkin and Vinnie Trocheck as the Rangers take a 2 game lead over the Hurricanes, and marvel at the never quit Avalanche who storm from behind to beat the Stars in overtime in game one. We celebrate Macklin Celebrini as the San Jose Sharks win the Draft Lottery with Corey Pronman, stick tap the career of Rick Bowness and Drew Bannister shaking off the interim label in St. Louis and profile the finalists for the Hart Trophy.Frankie Corrado discusses the latest elimination by the 'right there' Maple Leafs, the discontent in Ottawa over the Senators hiring Travis Green as head coach, and Frankie gives his picks for Wednesday night's games between the Canucks and Oiler and the Panthers and Bruins.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome, welcome, welcome. It is Wednesday. This is the Athletic Hockey Show. We are Sean McIndoo and Sean Gentilly. We got Frankie this week, Frankie Crato, and we got Corey Pranman this week, talk lottery stuff and draft ephemera and what have you.

We're up against it, DGB. We need to move quickly. We need to get directly into what we've learned here. We call him Corey Seanman, by the way. Is that a thing? Sean, man. How did you, why didn't I think of that? Yeah.

We can do that. Free Sean's in a Frank. Here's what I learned this week. The playoffs stink and nobody should care about them. And when does football season start? I'm always there. But we'll have more. Speaking of the Leafs, we'll talk that with Frankie.

What did you learn this week? What have we learned, Sean? Oh, boy. Igor Shisterkin's round it into form. I think that was my big, that was right. Scary. Scary stuff. That was my big takeaway from the Rangers.

O.T. went over Carolina last night. We know Vince Strocheck was a menace. We know that Jake Gensel did exactly what Caroline asking to do, and it ultimately didn't matter all that much. Igor Shisterc and baby goaltending and special teams. The Rangers are checking both of those boxes already, but nasty, nasty stuff last night from him. five and a half goals against obviously Carolina only or five and half expected goals against

Carolina obviously only gets three that's because she's Thurkin was sick and that's the single biggest reason you know that people already need to amend their projections not just for this round for the next one and for the one after that because if that dude is 90% of what we saw last night you know moving forward they're going to be a major major major major problem I'm going to go ahead and say it, man. If the Rangers run the table and go 16 and 0 in this playoffs, I'm going to start considering them a good team. I'm going to, we got to, you know what? Maybe I want to see it for, you know, 10 more games. But then, you know, if they go, if they go 16 and O though, and their expected goal share is like a little bit below 50%

and you got to ask maybe tough questions. Yeah, that would be that. Because as we all know, power play and goal pending doesn't count for some. Yeah. Well, I mean, the power play did count last night in overtime. What did you think of that? Everybody's always saying, you know, they get, everyone's grumpy when the referees put the whistles away late, especially in overtime, right up until they don't. And then everyone's like, what are you doing? It's just one of those calls. It's like you, like you knew it. You knew it when it happened because you get the little. Like they, how many power plays were in overtime? At least two or three, right? It was three, wasn't it? Yeah. Which, I mean, that might as well be 20 in, in a first period. We love Vincent

Trocheck. Western, PA, upper St. Clair, dude was a menace throughout that game. He draws the penalty. And then, you know, he's, he's right. He's right there for the goal. We love it. A very underrated piece of the Rangers and, and a beloved piece. As somebody who made an offhand joke on Twitter about Vincent Trochecks, uh, star power,

four months ago, I had to mute the replies on that one. People don't. People don't forget. Man, I thought I made a, I might as well have said that Adam Gray, just wasn't a real 50 goal score. I mean, they were Ranger fans, furious.

Have you said that before? That sounds like you're speaking from experience. Have you made that mistake? I said that about Graves. I guess I mean, I just did. So I got that to look forward to. But yeah,

he's that guy. And I loved his post game, where they, you know, gave him the old, like, talk about the goal. And he was like,

I don't know. It went in. And I have no recollection of what happened. The puck is in the net. Yeah, that sounds about right. When it comes to the other game, too, we'll touch on this real quick.

We kind of mention this with Frankie because, spoiler alert, we've already recorded. You don't go behind the curtain like that. It's what I do. I like giving the Hoy-Poloia taste of a taste of how we do. Kfei, brother. Come on, man. This is live. This is done live.

We're in your car with you right now. Immediately talking directly to you. Yeah. Colorado didn't waste an entire game before figuring out, like, we're just going to, we're going to, we're going to snap into, snap into cut mode and not worry about Alexander Georgiev anymore. Because that was, it took them, it took them, it took them, it took them two periods and then, boom, they're back.

That's another scary one. And we, we're into round two, certainly we shouldn't have to talk about, you know, don't base your thoughts on a series on game one because we saw in the first round, plenty of examples, including the Colorado series where game one was the total outlier. but if you're Dallas and you're you're sitting there, you know, three nothing after one period going, we got these guys. We can do this.

Maybe this matchup tilts our way. Maybe the goal tending, you know, maybe this and that. And Colorado just goes, you know what, no. Never mind.

Because, and it's the same thing. Like, I know we don't, we don't overreact the game one, but it's fair when you see trends developing, right, with Colorado.

And it's, they're getting a goal. They got a big goal from Nichuskin, get a gigantic game winning goal from Miles of Wool. Didn't we all? It's good one. Yep.

You look at that, you looked at those two rosters and you went, it's Miles Wood time. This is, if anyone's going to go end to end, you know, they said it's Miles Wood time, Miles Wood. I don't know. I don't know about that. Plots on a stick, it's Miles Wood time. Yeah. All right. We're going to Corey.

We're going to Frankie. Enjoy the show. All right. The draft lottery was yesterday. Of course, that means we got our buddy Corey, I'm in here, Corey, how we doing? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me, guys.

Of course, man. All right, we need to start at the top. We got to talk about Macklin-Cellbrini. What are the sharks getting there? I know you've written at length about him, so we don't have to dive into full detail there. But what does he mean to the franchise and assuming that they add him to the fold?

What's the second step there? I mean, he's a strong first overall type of prospect. I can know, this isn't like Aaron Eckblatt or Nico Hesier. This is a legit number one overall pick a guy who you, you project and if he hits can become an elite player in the National Hockey League, a guy who was a Hobie Baker winner. He was, you know, the best player in college hockey as a very young player. And Tilly did it as an 18-year-old.

Eichael did it as an 18-year-old. This guy was a true 17-year-old doing it in college hockey, and he was dominant in most games. I watched and the offense. You see the numbers there. They're fantastic. He's got a ton of skill, a ton of offense,

but it's not just the offense. This is a two-way centerman. This is a guy you're projecting to be a matchup center in the NHL. You're thinking of almost like kind of like what, how good Jonathan Taze was, but maybe some more offense in his game. I think that's the hope with Celebrini is he could become that kind of player. Because you can see it in the body,

right? Like he's very clearly the frames, the frames bigger than a guy like Badaarty's. He's already. he's already a couple inches taller. That's got a help when you're talking about him as a matchup center moving forward, right? Yeah, he's not huge.

He's not going to be like a 6-2-6-3 guy, but he's a really good skater. He competes really hard, very intelligent to go with a ton of skill. So I think, you know, when he gets to the NHL, I don't think he's going to overwhelm guys physically, but, I mean, a different playing style than a guy like Bedard for sure.

And he's, we love, whenever the lottery happens, we love to analyze the reaction of the player, infamously, Connor McDavid, you know, blinking out, help me when the Oilers won the lottery. And I think a lot of people would look at where the sharks are at these days and go, oh, man, prospect probably wants no part of that. But there's some connections here, right? Like, I mean, this is kind of, I wouldn't say this is where he wanted to go, because I don't think that's necessarily how these guys think. But Celebrity family is probably not too broken up about this, right? No, and even when I went out to go watch him this year when I went to

Boston University, like I can kind of tell that was like the staffs like dream scenario was for him to become a shark just because of the connections to the shark that they have, particularly with the general manager there in my career. And I think, yes, he has family connections to the area. And I think, you know, when obviously the team's in a tough situation right now, that roster is really thin. And when Celebrini signs, you know, I don't think it's a 100% sure thing that he signs and plays for them this year.

But I think, I think it's the likely scenario. And when he, you know, presuming he does sign, I think he, you know, you look at how the roster is right now and you think he should be

one of the better players on that team. I think kind of like what Chicago at least attempted to do last summer when they got Mard and said, okay, we now, we suck two years ago. Let's go add some players now. maybe won't suck as badly and obviously they didn't play out.

But, but, you know, I think that would be an ideal scenario. It's like, okay, we tanked, we got Celebrini. Now let's try to get a little bit more around him. Obviously, Willie Ecclid had a good year for San Jose, but they need some more, you know, just all around that roster. But I do think Celebrity can step in and become one of their better players right away, even if they add around him. And I think, you know, the hard.

The hardest part of a rebuild is getting the superstar. And I'm not saying Sabrina is for sure going to be a superstar. He's got to prove it in the NHL first. But that box is ticked. And now you kind of see, you know, where the next steps go. Obviously, you know, Buffalo gets rough with Dahlene. They never take the next step. New Jersey gets Jack Hughes.

It seems like they take the next step and then they take a step back. It doesn't always go in a straight line. But the hardest part is getting that piece, especially in a system where the lottery odds are not in your, favor as they used to be 10 years ago. So for San Jose, this is a great week. And for the fans, I think you can at least now see a path to becoming a legit team again. I'm not saying this happening tomorrow or next year or in three years, quite frankly.

But the path becomes more clear now. How much do you like the future fit with him in Will Smith potentially? I like it a lot because I think Will Smith is dynamic. I mean, Guy let college hockey and scoring this year as an 18-year-old. incredible skill, but he's not a super hard to play against guy. He is not going to be a guy you put out there against opponents, best players. And I think there are some people who even wonder whether he's for sure going to be an NHL center.

I think that's something he's got to prove. But I think on a team with Celebrini, he takes that pressure off him potentially. Interesting. Sir, you were talking about the possibility of Celebrity going back. college. What goes into that decision? And at this point, is that a shark's decision? Is that his decision? Is it a combination? Is it about what's best for the development? Is it about avoiding what could potentially be another pretty rotten season? Is there a part of Mike Greer that goes, I wouldn't mind finishing last again next year and getting another guy like this? I mean, how does this

all come together because this this feels like a pretty crucial uh inflection point for for both parties i think it's all the above and also potentially you know a contract um you know status thing where you you prevent the first year free agency from tolling um you know i think you kind of i think it's a different since situation because there was a covid year etc but you know you saw buffalo do that with owen power they said you know you know they were okay with owen going back for another year let him dominate college again. Although he wasn't as dominant in his draft year as Celebrini was, I think that's the biggest difference is.

I think Celebrini is shown. I think he's ready to play pro hockey. But, you know, they said, you know, go back. We're probably not going to be good this year. You know, get another high pick. Come in, be ready, make an impact right away. And they save the year of free agency on Owen. I think the situation is a little different where I think Celebrini was just so good in

college last year that I think if you're thinking of what's best for the player, long-term. I don't know what more he has to prove by going back. Even if you do save the year of free agency, even if you are going to be bad, he's going to do a lot of losing probably next season. I think you have to realistically think, like, okay, he needs to be challenged and he needs to, and that next challenge is likely pro hockey.

But I do think it's at least given how bad the sharks are probably going to be next year, and given that celebrating isn't Fantili or Jack Eichael. It wasn't a late birthday. I don't think he's even turned 18 yet. I think it got at least have that conversation. But I think I think the most likely scenario is him still coming out and being on the Sharks top six next season. We have the Russian factor to consider, excuse me, again this season that starts at pick two, really. But we're, you know, we look at your rankings.

You love Leshanov, you love Salaev, you know, Demadov's up there certainly seems like a consideration at two for Chicago. So where are we at, like on the overall, on the overall Russian question? And is what are among those three or four elite guys, is there one that's a better bet to come over more quickly? Or is it just wait and see mode for all of them? Well, we'll have shootoffs already here, obviously. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I remember Salaia and Demadov. Salaia's got two more years left on his KHL D.L.

Demodov got one more year left on his KHL deal. I think there was some significant questions this time last year when it came to Mof and Mitch Kov. You know, when we had those Russian debates, but still had three Russians, I think, go in the top 12 in terms of guys on KHL deal. So I don't think, and there is still those questions in the league. I think if you got those, you got a general manager to come and be on the show and be honest with you, I think they would always tell you if it was close, take the guy who's not on the KHL deal. But I think for the most part, when the talent differences between player A and player B are so significant that you can't,

you know, screw around with that. And he's got to take the guy who thinks is going to be a difference maker for your organization. And I think with guys like Saylaas Shunov and Salyev, you know, and Demadov, there's a lot of people who believe they can be difference makers. So I, even if they're the next best player is in Russian, if there's a big difference, you got to take the best player. And I think Salive and Demadov have some differences than. Mitchcoff situation in the contract status and that I think they have shown in their interviews

with teams that they are very open to coming to North America. They are doing plenty of interviews with teams. You know, I think Mitchcoff is a little bit of a black box this time last season in terms of who talked to him. And he kind of had like an off the beat track agent as opposed to like, you know, Demetops and Milstein guy, for example. And, you know, and so I have, you know, I've already talked to. to the kid this year.

They're not shying away from the fact that he has NHL interest. So I think those are some distinct differences. And I do think that I think there will still be some picking high that would prefer not to take a Russian, but just given how good all those players are, I think they're all going to go extremely early in the draft. And if you're Chicago at number two, I think that's a fascinating pick because it's like, to me, you know, a relatively uncultured draft observer, you're like, It's like, do you focus on surrounding Badaard with the right pieces?

Do you take best available? How do you balance that idea of team building around Connor Bader and also by, but also with, you know, taking the best prospect available? Like, is that a concern? Like, what's, what's the, what's the mix there at two for them? I think when you look at a situation like Anaheim, when they have, like, guys in the NHL who have proven it and look like premium players. You have Mason McTavish and Leo Carlson and Trevor Ziegress already in the NHL and proven when you have, you know, even like some guys who are a little bit older, like a Troy Terrier, for example.

And then you have, you know, Cutta Goce coming. I think you can start looking at positions and being like, okay, like we have some really, really good young forwards already proven on this team. Maybe we, if it's close, we take the defenseman. I don't think Chicago has that luxury. I get they have some really nice prospects in their system. Like I think Kevin Cortchensi is a great prospect. Alka Volashch looked really good in the NHL this year. Sam Renzel is a nice prospect.

Forward, yes, they have guys like Lucas Reichel, Frank Nazar, all over more, but these are not elite names. These are not guys who have come to the NHL and have shown they can, you know, really produce in the league at a high level. I think if you're in Chicago's position, your team is so bad last year, and you have to take who you think is the best player available and who you think is going to be the most valuable player

for your organization over the next 10 to 15 years. because I just think there's way too many holes in this roster still. That makes sense. Corey, thanks for the time, buddy. I know you have a full prospect show coming up in a couple days, right? So everybody wants to hear more about this, man. Corey's got you covered, Corey and Max and whatever cast a superstar is joining a couple of days. So thanks, bud.

Yeah, sure. Thank you. We've got Frankie Carado coming up next. All right, segment two. Frankie's here. Hey, buddy. How we doing? I'm good.

Man, there's a lot going on. on. A lot going on. How are you guys doing? There's a lot going on and we still have, I think, I just check the calendar. It's seven days until lease management talks. Right. For 10 more days to wait, maybe? I'm not doing so good, but I'm not disclosing why that is. Oh, you don't want to tell us, but we'll just wildly speculate.

How about that? That's fine. That's probably better. Yeah, I hear down goes brown. He's out with a lacerated fingernail. Could be. Cannot confirm or deny. That's a possible career under, baby. Dude, you're typing,

all the typing. They're magic. Yeah, that reminds me of like when Aaron Sanchez, the Blue Jay's pitcher, he had blisters, which is obviously very difficult, but when the report always came out,

like he's, you know, he's got blisters, like, oh, okay. Like, it just doesn't sound hardcore, you know?

You guys, you guys don't understand how, how difficult it is to throw a breaking ball with a, with a blister on your middle. finger. I'll never understand. I'm sure it's very difficult. Hockey players, man, you're just not, you're just not tough.

They're just not built the same. You don't get it. Yeah, how do you type 6,000 words with a broken fingernail? I don't know how you do it. All right, I got to ask you a question. As the former player, it's game seven

moments before you're going to go out on the ice for some of these guys the biggest game of their career. How pumped are you when Sheldon Keefe comes in and tells you to go out there and have fun? Relax, breathe, and have fun with this day. The fiery pregame speech. Hey, guys, breathe, go have fun. I can't believe nobody jumped up like the Kool-Aid man and burst through the wall to get out of the guys after. I saw it.

Have fun speech. I saw the speech, okay, and we only get some. a small snippet of it, which I think is a little, like, we should probably get a little more context. Like, maybe he went on a tirade before that. And it was like at, you know, to use final tap terms, like maybe it was at 11 for, you know, five minutes before that. And then finally, everyone took a deep breath and he said, let's just go out there and have fun. Yeah, no, I'm sure, I'm sure that's what happened. I'm sure Sheldon Keith is in there peeling the paint right before the cameras click, click on. But he is fiery. Like, he's, he's, he's a fiery guy. I don't know.

I saw it firsthand when I played for him. The other thing that, you know, about that is a game day. Take any game day, but more specifically like a big game like that, like a game seven. You have your meetings in the morning. You think about the game all day. Then you have meetings before you get your warm up going and all that kind of stuff. And then you're so like, you know, you're so worried about this and that, the penalty kill, the power play. What are they doing on the forecheck?

All these things. And you probably do need a little bit of. reminder to just, you know, let's go out there and play. But yeah, I think it does lack a little bit of context. And I saw the people, you know, comparing like Barubi's speech a few years ago to that. It's like maybe Sheldon said that 45 seconds before the camera started rolling. I don't know. It's also like we get another Barubi comparison to, right?

Like you can just keep pushing that. Everybody's another another reason to keep. How funny was the Paul Bisinate Craig Barraubay interaction on, what was it, Sunday night, where people didn't see it on, they're on TNT, right, Sean? Yeah, that's, that's correct. That's right. And they, and, and Bizz is doing, you know, his biz stuff. And I don't even think Craig Burebe really said anything, but he may be a little bit of a chirp.

And Bizznet goes, 12 years of playing pro, you would have thought I was playing with a shovel out there. It looks like in there. Well, that's enough, buddy. I'm going to break the news that you're the new Leaf's head coach. And the camera goes to Barube and his facial expression. His reaction was so awkward.

And I don't know if it was awkward and just in the sense of like that was just a weird thing to say or I, oh, I better not react in any way. Or if he was literally looking at him like you some like you just. What are you doing? I just got off the phone with the combo. I know. You know who the real MVP is there? The director in the control room. Yes. It was quick thinking. It was like, let's

get to that single cam right away. Like, that's the real MVP. Dude, I was freeze framing that for hours. Just like every, every single frame, what's going through Craig's head at this point? Okay. Well, Sean, like, do you want through the movie?

Is that like, is that where? I mean, yeah, I, I, I, there has to be a coaching change. This is fan me, by the way, talking, not as if there's any other kinds. It's the same guy. There's only one. I mean, there has to be a coaching change.

There has to be. So who do you go to from there? I'm not right or die. Craig Baroube has got to be the guy, but I would work for me. I'm sure there are other guys as well, but I like the idea a lot of a guy coming into the room a former relief briefly, but a guy who made his career getting punched

in the face and coming into that group that has been, as Frank said, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but from every external indication has been treated pretty kindly by the coaching staff. And, you know, there have been a couple of examples where Keith has said certain things publicly and then walked it back immediately, had meetings with the players to make sure that they knew that, you know, he didn't,

he wasn't actually trying to say that. The year before last against the coyotes when he like accidentally criticized Marner publicly and then. There were a couple of it. Yeah, he said, you know, our elite players need to be better. He immediately walked it back.

There was a Marner thing. He immediately walked it back. Let's just say I don't think a Craig Burube type is, is doing that. And I don't think Craig Burube is telling them to go out there and have fun. I think that. the message might be a little bit different. It's interesting, like listening to the Leafs talk on their year-enders.

And, you know, a lot of the messaging is the same from player to player, but a lot of the messaging is the same from year to year, where it's almost like this defensive state of, hey, don't come after us. We tried hard. You know, don't come after us. We love this group. We're close. We're really tight.

So close. So close. Like, fans don't really care how close you are. You all make a lot of money. You know, you fly on the private plane, you stay at the Ritz Carlton, you do all that cool stuff. Like, no one really cares that you have nice dinners at Nobu and you include everyone and you're not a click. Like, let's call it for what it is. We love that when you win.

The St. Louis Blues want to tell us how they all get together and dance to Gloria. Awesome. Yeah. Great. When you win. Losing over and over and over again and then going, well, we all like each other a lot. I got to be out. There's a lot of fans out there probably like me who are.

we're like, good, trade one of these guys. Let's break up the group. Let's make it. It's a little, it's a little comfortable, isn't it? And you know what? I think you bring up a good point there about how, you know, we only know what we see and what we hear and what kind of gets thrown out there externally. Well, the stuff that keeps getting thrown out there externally is a lot of the same. And it's a lot that leads you to believe like that there's not much that they think really needs to change as players. Because if there was, you know, one of those guys would have stood there and said it flat out wasn't good enough again and we're frustrated by it and you know like no one has ever showed anything like that it's always this i got to put up my shield because they're

coming after me again and guess what like you know Mitch marner said you know we get treated like gods here and that was a poor choice of words no doubt are you a god then when someone ask you if you're a god you say yes yeah that team wins if that team wins these guys are going to be legends for life, like cementing their legacy as legends for life. And their legacy right now is a team that can't get it done in the playoffs. And I have to believe that this era of the core four and these guys and how the team is currently constructed, I have to believe that that era is over. And if it isn't, they'll get another opportunity.

But the legacy of the core four is going to be a team that was really good in the regular season that could never get it done in the playoffs. And that is fair criticism because that's what happened. That's not anyone making it up. That's literally the facts of what happened. And they, like, they control that narrative to a certain degree. And,

and I'm, 100% it's this is not, they're not getting picked on. This is not the Toronto media going after these guys. This is not that, oh, that terrible Toronto fan base who just such unrealistic, expectations.

And man, the whiplash between people who point at Lee fans and go, you guys don't demand a winner. But then when they criticize Mitch Marner, it's all you guys are driving a good player out of town because you're so demanding. Like pick a lane. It's not any of that. It is just this is what's happening. And I'm a big believer in like 99% of the stuff that comes out of these like clean out days. Like you can't get worked up about because what are they supposed to say? You know, like they're, they're, it's, it's, they're going through the motions.

Their seasons just ended. They're saying what they got to say to get through their five or two. Pretty, pretty hungover. Yeah. But same goes, same goes for the, for the dude to ask them the questions. Yeah. Yes, everyone's hung over there. Season's over.

It smells like a brewery. Man, it's a lot of, it's just a lot of loser talk. And, and, and yeah, I mean, maybe it should be. They're losers. Like that's so, yeah. We're getting, we're getting pissed off DGB today. baby, let's go. Well, yeah.

You're getting real a CGB. I think people, like, fans just want to see the acknowledgement of the fact that it's, it's, you're not right there. Because if you're in, and Jeff O'Neill made this point right after the game, and I thought it was brilliant, where he basically said, you're not right there. If you were right there, you'd be going to conference finals, you know, basically every year. You'd be the Carolina Hurricanes. That's a team that's right there.

The Edmonton Oilers are. right there. You know, you're pushing up every year. It's like the first round is a gimmy. You're into the second round and then that's when your playoffs really starts. That's right there. These guys are not right there. And part of the frustration, I think, is if you're a fan, is if you watch other games right now around the NHL and you look at the box score or you watch the highlights, it's constantly other teams star players performing and scoring goals. And it doesn't seem to be an issue. But with this team where all these guys are paid a lot of money, like four guys make up 50% of the salary cap and they can't beat, you know, Boston who has

three third line centers and a fourth line center and a lot of average players up front outside of, you know, a couple of guys in Pasternak and Marchan and, you know, take your pick. There's maybe one or two others. Like when the star power, they gets paid a lot of money, can't beat average, you know, league average, that would be really frustrating. And, you know, to not even really acknowledge that would make things even more frustrating for fans. And look, we talk a lot at playoff time about home ice in the NHL and how a lot of times it doesn't really feel like it matters as much as it is maybe it used to.

Here is a series where it literally comes down to overtime in a game seven. and the winning goal is a goal that you can only score on home ice because you have to know those boards exactly on a set play. You can't do that play on the road. So literal home ice advantage. And who had home ice? Boston. Why?

Because they finished way ahead of the Leaves. The Leaves were the 10th best team in the league. The 10th best team in the league is supposed to lose in the first round. That's the kind of stuff to me whenever you see these comparisons. to the caps. Everyone loves comparing Toronto to the to Washington you know in 09 10, 10, 11 like whenever they were really having trouble as well. Yeah, the 90s Detroit. Yeah.

Guess what those things are doing. They were winning president's trophies and they were and they were winning playoff rounds. They hit a roadblock eventually but but the Washington capitals in 20 whatever in 2011 that era of team those were dominant regular season teams that even showed it then. So everyone wants to look at the lack of

playoff success and say like, uh, it took Tampa a while to break through. It took Washington a while to breakthrough. Those teams were beating ass in the regular season as well. Tampa went to a cup final. Everyone forgets that Tampa went to a cup final against Chicago. And Vasilevsky was the backup.

Like that's how far back this whole Tampa kind of progression goes so that like a rookie Vaselowski got put in that because was a Ben Bishop. Ben Bishop. I was, I was, I was, I was there. That was in, I remember that was in Tampa.

Dude, I was governed me. Both of us were there. I tweeted it because it was during a commercial break and I tweeted like, he doesn't look right. And then I tweeted like he just left the ice and like people hadn't even realized it. This is how, this is how long ago.

This is how long ago that was. I was at Grantland. That's how long ago that was. Max, Max Boltman, who covers the Red Warrows for us was an intern at Sporting News, which is where I work back then. He was in the office and like answering phones.

And I had, he had to call me and make sure that I was spelling Vasilevsky correctly. Like in, like in my story. That's how long ago it was. Yeah. Yeah. I, I still, you know, I still can't spell it. Vasilevsky's one of those guys where the first time you spell it right without copy pasting, you feel pretty proud of yourself. Bravo.

I thought it. Yep. Got that extra. I remembered where that extra vowel goes. Pros, pro, baby. I knew there was a, I knew there was a, why at the end there. Efficiency.

You know what though? DGB? I almost called you DBGG. Yeah. There's a guy here on Instagram in Vaughn. He calls himself douchebag Guido, DBG. And he makes these funny, like, Italian woodbridge guy videos. So I have to make sure I say DGB.

You can misspell Vasilevsky. You can't misspell DGB. Yeah, that's always a good chirp on the ice. It's like, you're so stupid. You can't spell BMW. going back to your thought about the coaches there, like the coaching staff needing to change. Sheldon's a very good coach.

I think Sheldon, if he goes somewhere else, we'll have success in the NHL. There's no denying that. But the shelf life of a coach these days, it's just short. That's the reality of where we're at. And with the amount of change that's going to happen with this team, you would think that the coach would be involved in that.

If it doesn't, if that doesn't end up being the case, I don't know. Like, I'm indifferent on the coaching staff, and I'll tell you why. The Leap's power play is an issue all the time in the playoffs. Can we agree on that? Is that fair to say? Okay. Since I played for the team, okay, the power play coach when I played for the team was Jim Hiller.

Okay. Power play was good in the regular season. I don't think it was very good in the playoffs. Then it was Paul McFarland, right? Paul McFarlane. I think it was the same deal. Good power play in the regular season, not very good in the playoffs. Okay, moving on after Paul McFarland, I think Mani Malhotra had an opportunity to run the power play at one point.

He got taken off. Carbury ran it. I think maybe Dean Shinoff ran it as well. I'm not sure. I know he's done the penalty kill. And then this year was Guy Boucher. So regardless, that's five or six guys that have run the exact same power play with the exact same personnel and it's good in the regular season and it's not good in the playoffs.

So that would tell me that you could bring in as many coaches as you want. You could run the cycle through. There's just something that's off there. There's something wrong. And the messaging with a new coach should be different. It should be a little bit of a culture shock. Like whoever comes in next, it should shock the system a little bit. And I'm not talking about like Babs coming in, looking at,

your phone, playing head games. I'm just talking about like no nonsense, no BS, like setting a new standard for how things are done, how we're going to walk, how we're going to talk, how we're going to operate, how we're going to hold people accountable. That would be, that would be what I would be looking for in a new head coach candidate. Because ultimately, all the X's and O's, it's going to come down to who's going to be able to execute and can this group execute? And based on what we've seen from the power play, it's been a million one coaches and it has been able to do it come playoff time. And sometimes the act of making a change,

regardless of the personality type that you bring in, like whether it's a Barubei-style hard ass or it doesn't even matter. It's the fact that there is an acknowledgement that there was a true failure in the first place. Do you know what I mean? Like it's a, and I know there's a difference between the coach getting fired and, you know,

a player getting moved out. Now that would certainly be more drastic. But like something needs to hit. And that might just be the, maybe the act of making the change is Sean, they're, they're famously for a lot of years of Maple Leaf Gardens,

there was a sign that hung in the dressing room. Okay, we all know Montreal had the, like the torch passing slogan. The Leaf slogan was, as a consmite quote, defeat did not rest lightly on their shoulders. Has any team

let defeat rest more lightly on their shoulders over the last eight years than the Toronto know Maple Leafs, who every year get defeated and then sit in front of the media and go, we were close. It's fine. We're going to just do it again. That's the double edge sword. Because you want to preach process over results, like to a point. Because it's important. Like, having the right systems in place and having the right, you know, the right, the right, the right, long-term culture in place is, is vital, right? You don't want to be reactive and all that stuff that we've heard for years, like across the board, whether it's from Shanahan or, or

anybody else. But at a certain point, results start to matter. Results take priority over process. And that's what I feel like the dissonance is, right? Because you want, to an extent, you want these guys to be processed, but that goes out the window during the playoffs. Because all that matters is the results. The process ceases to matter. And you have to act differently when the results don't match that. And that reaction that you're talking about, if it was a team that had won a Stanley Cup four or five years ago and it was you know guys are we're turning over a new leaf it's in a transitional period and you lost in the first round you could live with guys going out there and saying yeah you know it's it is what it is you know we're we're trying our best or whatever but

this is a team that's trying to get there they have aspirations of getting over the hop and and being a Stanley Cup team so when you have aspirations chances are like I don't know you got to dig in a little bit more you got to do something a little bit different you have to do something a little bit extra. And the process is the process for sure. It's the process plus whatever many percent you think you need in the playoffs to get you over. And you know what? Like I know in that series against the Bruins, there were a lot of people who were looking at it saying, I hope they lose in five. Like I hope it's just over, put us out of our misery because it's going to leave, it's going to leave no doubt that big changes need to happen and don't string us along anymore.

And sure enough, in typical leaf fashion, it's like the team wakes up finally with their backs against the wall and says, oh, we actually need that extra five or ten. We all called this out. Like we all call everyone. Everyone who knows this Leaf team inside and out who has seen it has called this. And it happened. And it happened exactly the way Leafs fans know it to happen. And, you know, you can absolutely say that, you know, they showed some resiliency,

they played hard, all that kind of stuff. The problem is they wasted, you know, game one. They wasted game four. So why does it have to get to game five for the team to realize that and say, you know, we need to do something a little bit extra here? Championship teams lose games, absolutely. But championship teams also recognize when the time to push is. and here's a good example for you.

You know, the Colorado Avalanche lose game one to the Winnipeg Jets. Looks like their goalie can't make a save. Then they come back, they dominate that entire series. Last night, Colorado's down in that game, and they actually said, we're actually not going to accept losing tonight. So we're going to come back and we're going to win this game. It didn't even take them three full periods,

because that was a replay of what we saw against Winnipeg, right? Because Georgia was bad. And they're like, uh-uh, actually, we're fixing this in the, third period this time. Right. So, so that's like recognition right away that we're not going to accept that defeat, that it, you know, it, it doesn't rest lightly on our shoulders. I don't know. It just, it takes too long. Last year against the Panthers, what was it? They were down three nothing. Yeah. And then they play their best guy. I've, I've written this a bunch of times.

Like, again, the idea that the Leafs fold when the going gets tough is false. They have been great when the going gets tough. When, you know, they're playing Columbus. They're facing elimination. They're down 3-0 with five minutes left. Oh, bang, bang, bang, tie the game, win in overtime.

Hey, oh my gosh, what a turning point for this franchise. And then they absolutely crap the bed in the deciding game. You know, they've come back against Boston, down 3-1, what, three of the four series? And then they always lose game seven. I mean, it's the time for, Moral victories for this team is so far back. It's so far.

And again, five years past moral victory. I don't know what I expect the players, certainly to say. Like, I mean, and we got to be fair also because if Austin Matthews comes out and goes, you know what,

guys, it's not good enough. I'm pissed off. All of a sudden, we're all right. It's front page news in Toronto, dissension. Austin Matthews calls out teammates and all this other stuff.

So it really is kind of a can't win. But I, I don't know, man. Like, you've, this is a very frustrating team. As a fan, I'm frustrated, but I got to tell you, man,

I have been watching this team my whole life. I've never had a playoff series that they've lost that I was like, that I cared less about really by this point. Like this, that game seven, you guys can, I was over at the, I was over at the Ian Mendes place for the game. And he talked on the podcast on Monday about what the experience of watching

a game seven with me. if people are thinking I was flipping tables and stuff like that, it's just, no, it's, it was just like, yeah, here we go again. I've seen this. What an, what an indignant great. Yeah, that's honestly, that's worse than, oh, I was, I punched a hole in the wall and, you know, burn my jersey and all that stuff. I was just like, all right, thanks for, thanks for having me over. I'm going to take another handful of Doritos and I'm out of here. Now, that would be, that would be the opposite of how a lot of people in Ottawa are feeling these days, based on the Twitter reactions, which is not.

a real place. Twitter's not real. It feels like, like, I don't know what the metaverse is like, but I feel like you can get sucked into Twitter for like a couple hours and you're like, oh, I'm out of it. Like I was, I think I was in, I was in a different universe there. And in the universe I was in yesterday on Twitter or X, whatever the hell you want to call it, I saw Sends fans enraged at the fact that they have hired Travis Green as their head coach. I have never seen a fan base turn so quickly on a guy who has never coached a single game for the team yet. They literally just put up his hockey DB winning percentage, which by the way, was basically the same as Rick Talkets before he took over in Vancouver and now he's

going to win coach of the year. But incensed at the fact that they would hire Travis Green and they've never met him, heard him speak, seen him coach a game, know nothing about him. they want accountability for the players. He's like he will hold them accountable and then some. They want someone who's firm but fair. That's Travis Green. Like I, it was crazy to me just based on a name and maybe the fact that you brought up

Craig Barubi earlier, maybe the fact that it wasn't Craig Barubi and everyone had their heart set on him and it seemed like a big downgrade. But it was like they completely turned on the management group that they were so happy to have in place now, it's like it's done a complete 180 based on a guy that they've hired and never seen play one game. And here's like as the, as your Ottawa-based correspondent, here's, part of what's going on here is like you say, this was the first hire from the new ownership. Steve Steyas is the new GM.

And there's a quote that was thrown out there by Michael Angela when he took over or shortly after where he said we're going to do we're going to get best in class that kind of became the catchphrase in the senator's fan made best in class and here was their first chance to go out and get best in class whatever that looks like whether it's berube whether it's you know any number there's there's there's i mean there's so many coaches out there right now um and it was kind of fascinating because there was a lot of talk about baroube there was a lot of talk about some other guys and then it was like maybe Monday or Sunday night or something. I think maybe it was Frank who first tweeted out like,

hey, Travis Green's in the picture now. And immediately, sense fans were like, that is not best in class. Is it not get when you can't afford best in class? And so you move down to the next tier. And then Elliott reported that,

yeah, it looks like that's the direction. And then, you know, somebody else had, Drager said this is going to happen. And then by Tuesday morning, when it actually was official, the fan base had already made their mind up.

And I do think part of it, part of it is a reflection of Travis Green, because you mentioned the winning percentage. Rick Talk, it's one comparison. But he's there next to Willie Desjardin. He's next to Wayne Gretzky, which is a great guy to be compared to as a player, not so much as a coach.

And the guy that he's just ahead of is a guy by the name of DJ Smith. So I kind of get her. It's fair. I'm going to get where they're coming from on that. And I, but you're right. Like if they had fired DJ Smith and immediately hire Travis Green and we don't have three months of best in class hype, I don't think it's the same reaction. We had,

we had this conversation about Travis Green when, when the Devils, you know, brought him in as is the interim, Frank. You've got plenty of experience with him. Yeah. I'm a fan of Greenie. Like, I played for him for two years in the minors. I so just to like a little context on you know the Vancouver winning percentage and it's funny that he's near Willie Desjardin.

Travis is a better coach than Willie like flat out better coach than Willie. Good news for Sands fans. The Travis had to endure one of the most dysfunctional front offices that I can remember in the last decade in the NHL. Maybe the most dysfunctional. But like that's that was that was an utter design. disaster that he had to deal with. And if you can go back, you know, probably seven or eight years and you talk about coaches

that are in the American hockey league that are ready to make the jump and are like these new up-and-coming guys, you know, fresh blood, he would be near the top of that list. Like that wasn't that long ago that he was that guy. He gets hired internally in Vancouver and he's got, you know, it was just, it was a bit of a, it was an uphill climb for him. and, you know, it's hard enough coaching in the league with the injuries and, you know, having to play against other teams that are well prepared for you, but to have, you know, stuff going on internally, that's not easy.

But, like, I don't know, I think we talked about this. Like, Travis is really good at connecting with his players, and it's not a one-size-fits-all approach. So, you know, he's going to push the right buttons, and it's not going to be the same for each guy, which is important for that group. what they need. They got a lot of different personality. And he's going to hold them accountable. I'm very, very curious to see how it goes with Travis and Tim Stutzler. Because I have a feeling like Greenie is going to try and turn him into, not change his game, but offense, very good. He's going to want to keep that. He's going to want

to bring his defensive game to another level. And what does that look like? I think will be very intriguing. Like, I think he's going to want to extract the most. out of a guy like that. And the bottom line is, you know, Greenie can go in there. He can do his thing. He can put in his structure in his systems, which is all great. Like he sticks to it. He's very detailed, all that kind of stuff.

Actually, his team, he wants to play an aggressive style. Like, they're not going to be a sit back and wait kind of team. Like, they're going to be an aggressive team. But if you don't have average goaltending, you're screwed. It doesn't matter. It could be Scotty Bowman. It could be, you know, every great coach. of every generation.

If you have 875 goaltending or eight whatever like they did, it's just no one's going to look good. But I think all things considered, like it's a good coach for that group. And I'm actually still recovering from his training camp in 2013. That's how hard it was. Oh, interesting. Yeah. It's so, you know, John Tortorella's training camp.

They call Camp Torturella because it feels like torture. Travis is right there. Like, it's right there with that. I mean, we're, like, we have already, Jonas Corpusala has, like, broken the scale. Like, he is now the, the measuring stick for, like, bad goaltending contract. So, like, God, God bless. We'll see how things work.

Also, like, the sense, the sense fan base to get back to that. This is absolutely a function of, like, how things have gone for them for the last five years or six years. I'm always blown away by how volatile the reactions are in one way or the other, right? If they win 11 to 15, it's like anybody who doubted us is wrong. What's the knock against Sends fans for the last six years, right? Every summer, the team does something. They all go, yay, we're fixed. We got the brink it.

We got Teresenko. We got whatever. And then the team starts like 1 and 17. And we all point and laugh and call up the old tweets. about how they're going to make. So now they're ticked off. They've changed something. Way to go.

I would be shocked. I would be shocked. Like I know like the team will have its limitations next year. We'll see what kind of roster moves they make. They should be busy. We'll see. But if the team is, you know, league average, let's say on paper, I would be shocked if they had a bad start.

That training camp is way too hard. Like it's way too intense for you to have a bad start. Travis Green's starting records. And I think like five years in a row, it's been, you know, at least about five 500. That's reason enough to hire that. Yes, you're not behind baseball by November, right? Ian Mendez doesn't have to write his annual November first column of, you know, how can

we climb out of this? I think it's, I think Ian, I think he has it in the drafts and he just goes and changes some words. It's like a university student using chat GPT and you just let me, or back in the day, like, back in the day, it was like, hey, hand me yours. I'm going to go online thesaurus and I'm just going to change these words around. Just make it look a little different. Yeah, online thesaurus

and just drop the new word in. All right, Frankie, before we let you go, we got two games. Let's get picks from you tonight. We got Florida, Boston, and we got the first game of Edmonton, Edmonton, Vancouver. Who you like?

Florida bounces back. I think Boston rolled in off their adrenaline from game seven right into game one, and Florida was a little rusty. Florida was sloppy with the puck. I don't expect that to be the same. I think Florida wins. And Edmonton wins. Edmonton gets off to a good start in the series. I think that series will be close-ish. Like I don't see Edmonton running away with it,

but ultimately I think Edmonton wins that series. I like it. Same page. Yeah. Yeah, boys. Okay. Well, we'll see you next week, I think. Nice. There you go. Bricking news. We didn't even have to ask. You said it. You're locked in. I got a message from JD. So far, I'm looking at my schedule next Wednesday. and it's a day off. So let's fire it up. You're in the calendar. Boom. We can talk about all those leafs changes.

All right. We're not. Yeah. Okay. See you guys. Brother. Yep. All right.

We're back and we're by ourselves. This is segment three. Leave some more comments, please. We need you guys to do this because we don't want to think of stuff for the segment on our own. Help us out, man. Come on. Please. We do have one, though.

Wow. I should. We have one, we have one particularly irrelevant one. of the five we got. It's from Chet. Well, DGB talks about a face-off play review, an icing review, and the Leaves Lose in Game 7 over time,

off a face-off play that might have been icing. Can you tell me the lottery numbers for next week, please? You know, as I've often said, we need more review in the NHL. He does it. Retroactively, I think we need to pass this rule and then go back. And, yeah, I actually,

I got to be honest. I did go back and look and I was like, what's that? It wasn't. It wouldn't have it. He didn't get to the red line, but Pastor Nax beating everyone on the leaf, so it wouldn't.

It's definitely what Marner and Morgan Riley were thinking. Like, eh, it's icing, whatever. I think, Mitch Marner was like, holy crap, that's David Pastor.

That's that good. Look at that. Look how fast he is. Holy smokes. Look at him go. I wonder who's man that, oh, oops.

Oh, well. Hey, even gods make mistakes. you said it got some news we want to hit too Rick bonus retires are we sure he's retired is it going to be a year and a half from now someone just decides that they want to break the Rick bonus in case of emergency glass when they need some defensive structure and some some paper I don't know so 40 years of coaching unreal in the NHL wild absolute hey legend everybody uh seems to have good things to say

about him. I still, as great as he's been over the many, many, many years, my favorite Rick bonus,

time was him as the coach of the expansion senators, the god-awful expansion senators who were given absolutely nothing to work with. And if you ever, if you ever want to

to kill a few minutes and go down a YouTube rabbit hole, you go and it's, uh, uh, The search Rick Bonus senators and somebody, for whatever reason, has uploaded a bunch of old TSN reports from that era. And it's just Rick Bonus desperately trying not to say that his team is total garbage. Like just being asked over and over again.

Like you guys have lost 14 a row and he's just like, we got to get the power play. What are you going to do? We got a, you know, I don't know, get some goal tending. I mean, you know, we got 720 team save percentage. but yeah, no, I'll definitely work on some tactical. That's definitely it. That's definitely all that's stopping us. If you can do it chronologically, you just see him getting closer and closer and closer to snapping.

It's really good stuff. And he, man, that would have been it for so many guys and the fact that he still coached for 30 years after taking that Motley crew. He didn't retire, then full credit to him. So I'm going to do to honor Rick Bonas today. Let's go back and go back and watch that compilation. You know, they're like, what's, you know, your power play that runs through Sylvan Terjean. Why is it only clicking at 6%? And, you know, he's just, Lord.

Oh, yeah, we're working on it. We also got our, our trophy nominees. It's Nikita Kutrov. It's Nathan McKinnon. It's Connor McDavid. Austin Matthews, we've talked about him quite a bit today, but I still think it's funny to see him. Someone had to be the fourth guy there, but it's wild that he was a Selky nominee on top of having the 69 goals and so doesn't make it in.

It's too interesting. If you had said that before the season that somebody was going to win the Rocket Richard by double digits and be a Selkie finalist, I mean, you'd be like that guy wins the heart trophy. Of course. And yet, it's not outrageous that, like you said, somebody had to be four. And it's one of those things where like, I do this all the time. We're all, I'll publish a top five or a top 10.

And somebody will be bad at me. They're like, how can you have a top five without this guy or this team? And it's like, okay, who are you taking out? Because top five isn't like just a general designation. It's five. And finalists, maybe six. Yeah, it's not like they sit down and go who's. It's not like best picture at the Oscars where they can just decide who's worthy of being a final.

Like, it's got to be three. So should Austin Matthews, did he deserve to be a hard finalist this year? 100%. Absolutely. Who are you taken out out of that three? There's nobody that's obvious, so somebody can't do it. And, uh, I don't know. Who do you think's going to win?

Coutreuf. No, I, I, I, I, I would, I would take out Coutreau, but whatever. Yeah. Because ultimately, like, is Matthews is going to win Hart? No. Like, it wasn't, it wasn't going to happen. Um, I still think it's McKinnon. I feel like everything just coagulated around him at the right time, where his performance

was great. The narrative was great. the voting was due at the right time. I don't know. I just, I feel like, I feel like, this is,

this is his year. I agree. I'm, I'm with you on that one. I think that's it for us. We might as well just go. We've had a very, oh my God.

Yeah. We're our St. Louis, loyal listeners. I, I don't have strong thoughts. Nice to see an interim guy. Keep, lose the tag.

It's always, it's always cool because he, because he worked for, He worked for a long time, too. Like, they, I feel like they made the decision to move on from Brubay pretty, pretty early. I saw Jeremy Rutherford, of course, had a breakdown of like what went into the process, what allowed Banniser to get the full-time job. I mean, Jarr has got you covered.

And if you are interested in the Blues coaching search, I mean, that's, that's it, right? If you want to get a breakdown of how a guy comes in as the interim and is able to parlay that into a full-time kick, Jarr has got you covered there. All right. That's it. Anything else, Sean? No, that's all of it. That's all of it.

Like Frankie said, he's back next week. So congratulations, dear listeners. You get a half hour of him rather than an hour of just us. Thank you for listening. Leave us a five-star review if that's your thing. Tomorrow is Haley. It's Max. It's me.

Then again, seven days from today. It's Sean McIndoo. It's Frank Carrotto. And I regret to inform you. It's also me. Enjoy your week. Bye everyone.