The Athletic Hockey Show - Can the Avs win with Alexander Georgiev in goal?: takeaways from Stanley Cup Playoffs opening weekend

Episode Date: April 22, 2024

On today’s Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, Ian and Laz break down the opening games of the 2024 Stanley Cup Playoffs including the Leafs’ 5-1 loss to the Bruins, the unhinged 7-6 Jets win over the Avs, Matt Rempe’s big game in the Rangers 4-1 win over the Caps, and much more. Then, The Athletic’s NHL insider Chris Johnston joins the show to discuss William Nylander’s whereabouts, who’ll start in goal for the Bruins in Game 2, the Coyotes relocating to Salt Lake City, Alex Meruelo’s press conference with Gary Bettman, and more. Plus, The Athletic’s own Jesse Granger talks to the guys about Mark Stone being ready Game 1 of the Golden Knights-Stars series, how series odds have changed after the first games have been played, and which Game 1 losers are still the pick to win their series. Subscribe to The Athletic: http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. We are back. It is a Monday edition of the athletic hockey show. As always, it's Ian Mendous and Mark Lazarus with you. And, you know, they had some great foresight, Las, when they, you know, put together podcast teams. And I was even thinking about this because I thought, oh, last night, we cover Chicago and Ottawa. So we're wide open. We're free. Max Bolton, he does a Thursday show.

He's pretty free. Sean Gentile, he's kind of a Pittsburgh guy. I know he's national writer, but he's free. The only guy with any loose association under the podcast umbrella, because Haley Salvean really does a lot of PWHL stuff now, is Sean McInto. And he never leaves his basement. And he never leaves his basement.

Yeah. And maybe in about 10 days he'll be free. I don't know. Oh, you think he's going to take that long? No. My goodness. I'll tell you what. Let's just start there, shall we?

How can we not? We're legally required. to start with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Ah, yes. And we do understand that we're recording this on Monday, and by the time people listen to this, maybe there'll be updates on Willie Neelander, maybe they'll have played the game, and then you listen to this

pod, so we're understanding of the timing of all of this. But I'm not sure you could have scripted a worst game one for Toronto. And you know, the moment that really jumped out to me was the Austin Matthews. He basically kind of went around Swamen and had an empty net button.

with an asterisk. It wasn't wide open. He was at a bit of a sharp angle. But Austin Matthews usually would put that in. And he hits the post. And I thought, oh, no, they're not winning this game, right? The ghosts of TD Garden, right? They're out there blowing on the puck and making it go just a little bit wide.

But wait, can there be ghosts in a building that came in like the mid-90s? Like, I understand Boston Garden. Sure. Well, they come with the banners. When you bring the banners over, the ghosts, like, they kind of cling to the side of them. And that's how they move over to the new building. So that's why Shane Doan's ghost didn't go over to Muller Arena. It was in the dumpster.

It was in the dumpster, exactly. That's what happens with the banners. So, but like, if you're looking at this, like, is there, in your mind, are the least done? Or are you just, oh, no, it's game one. It's game one. Settle down. Well, of course they're not done. It's the, you know, come on.

It's a seven game series. And they're, they're a good team. But like you said, that couldn't have gone any worse because they, they just looked like an inferior team. The Bruins were better in every aspect of the game. And it wasn't, I mean, it wasn't like the, the Leafs were like soiling themselves out there. They weren't, you know, making these horrible mistakes.

They were just getting flat out out plate by a better team. And that's the thing about the Bruins is every single year. We kind of take them for granted. We kind of just like the Bruins are there. They're getting 110 points, 105 points every single year. And we just kind of look past them. We're always focused on the lease because of the drama. We're focused on the Western Conference teams that are powerhouses.

it just, it seems like the Bruins somehow in the loudest, most obnoxious city in America, somehow we're looking past them every single year. And here they are, it's like, oh, yeah, the Bruins, they're really good, aren't they? Oh, they got two really good goalies in an era where that matters. And maybe they're a legitimate cup contender. I don't know. And this is what we do in the playoffs, right? We see one game and you're calling the Leafs done.

I'm calling the Bruins Cup contend. This is what we do. We overreact to one game in a seven game series. You know, six days from now, you know, when we're into game first, we're going to completely have forgotten what happened in game one. This is what we do is we overreact to game one. And Toronto is a city that is a little bit known for overreacting. So I can only imagine the, the tension, the pucker that's happening north of the border right now.

But it would have been one thing if in game one, it was David Posternak with a pair and Brad Marchant with whatever, you know, he was John Beecher and Brandon Carlo. And what Trent Frederick scored the MD Netter. I like DeBrusk. He's a good middle six player to me. And he had a couple of goals. But this wasn't like a signature performance from Boston's elite players either, right? No, no. There is certainly a lot to be concerned about if you're a Maple Leafs fan right now.

This was the matchup they didn't want. I know they wanted Florida, which I don't know if that was wise either. But there's something about Boston against Toronto where this seems to happen. It is. It's unbelievable to me that that's the way that this started for Toronto. But I'm with you. It's a long series, but the goaltending is going to become an issue. Everything's going to become an issue.

On one side, you got two goaltenders, and there's a controversy because it's like, who, which one do we go to? And on the other side, you got two goaltenders, and neither of them are any good. Which one do we go to? I mean, that's a huge disparity when you're choosing a goalie out of desperation as it's choosing it from a position of strength like Boston is. Yeah. And that's the perfect segue for us to chat about the Colorado Avalanche because, like, that game was unhinged.

Unhinged. It was great. It was absolutely fantastic. Six goals in the first, six goals in the third, one sandwiched in between the Adam Lowry goal that just I don't understand how it went over the line and all that. It was awesome. And I want to ask you this because I'd love to hear from our listeners. and this isn't just a hockey-related question. This would be for all of sports.

Is there a better venue? If you could pick one, just to go experience one game, one venue, what's beating a Winnipeg Jets home playoff game at Canada Life? Is there anything? What's in the conversation? What's even in the conversation? Yeah, I mean, I tweeted that last night during the game that, like, I've always wanted to cover a playoff game in Winnipeg.

I've been there during the regular season a whole bunch of times. It's the single best atmosphere in the NHL in the regular season. And then it just goes thermonuclear in the playoffs. I don't think there is, like I'd love to see a playoff game, like a Stanley Cup final at the Bell Center in Montreal. I imagine that would be just incredible. I've covered big games in Chicago. I know what that incredible atmosphere can be like.

Minnesota is another place. The X might be the best arena in the league, and those fans are so passionate and loud and crazy. I don't think anything can compare. Part of it is just it's the physics of it, right? Like anyone who's been to, I don't even know what the name of the name. change. It's M-C-CAT. Canada Life. Canada Life. The ceiling is so low. It's like Madison Square

Garden where the ceiling is so low. But unlike the garden, the whole arena is just this compact, small thing. I mean, we talk about Mullet Arena, kind of being a college rink. Canada Life Center is like an AHL ring in a lot of ways. It's this really small, compact area, and it just compresses the sound. There's nowhere for the sound to escape. The way that Bell Center and Little Caesar's Arena in Detroit, which is modeled after the Bell Center are built where there's vertical. They're in the same vein. But in Winnipeg, the rink is so small and so tight and so loud. You know, I went to Northwestern University and we always had the crappiest,

smallest basketball gym in the Big Ten. But I remember a coach, Kevin O'Neill, you say, when this place is full and it's usually full with half the opposing fans, it's like having a shouting match in a phone booth. And that sentence has always stuck with me, shouting match in a phone booth. that's what Canada Life Center is like. It's like 15,000 people having a shouting match in a phone booth. And it just, it ratchets up the intensity so high that I don't think anything in the NHL can compare to it.

Can you just very quickly for our younger listeners explain what a phone booth is? You ever see Superman? No, that movie's 50 years old too. Never mind. Exactly. You know, I was thinking about this. I was like, man, there's like, like maybe NFL stadiums, like, I was thinking maybe like a Kansas City Chiefs game at Arrowhead.

Yeah, except you wind up with an amputation afterwards because it's so freaking cold. Yeah. The outdoor games are totally different, right? But the only one I could think of it, I'm not a big NCAA guy, but everyone always says those Duke basketball games at home. Oh, yeah, Cameron, Indoor, yeah.

At Cameron, that that might be. But those are regular season games. There's no playoff games. The tournaments are always held in neutral sites. So I, you know, I'd love to see like a, like, the World Series, when the World Series was a Wrigley Field in 2016, the tension of 106 years of futility. Yeah. Like that's amazing and that's great. But I just, the sound, just the sheer volume that they can attain in Winnipeg with in those settings, it's just a unique situation

where it's the right fan base with the right history and the right sized arena that I'm not sure anything in the NHL can really compare it, even in, in any other North American sports. and maybe that was a little bit of a factor on Alex Georgiev looking iffy. But to be fair, that was the one thing we all said going into the playoffs. Yeah, he's been iffy for a while now. It wasn't just in Winnipeg. Yeah. And there were points in the first period where I thought, okay, a guy gave up three goals on whatever. It was like only eight shots. I wonder if he'll come out for period two. He did. And he gives up seven on.

Well, they had to. They didn't have a backup goalie. Yeah. Yeah. And so, but. Now you're wondering, okay, guy rocks a 696 save percentage in game one. He was already coming into the playoffs. Everyone was like, I don't even know if they're going to start him in game one. What do you do here if you're Jared Bednar? Because I don't, you can't go back to him? Can you in game two? I think you do.

I think you do have to because, A, you don't know how Uisysa Sununin is going to be feeling. He was sick. And if he's, you know, if he's got like, I don't know, I have no information here, but when you're like really sick, you don't eat for a couple of days. You're weaker. You're not, you don't have, you have to build yourself back up a little bit. They're not going to put the guy with no experience in. I think typically in these things you see is you get a second chance.

If you're bad in game one, you go back out there for game two, you get a chance to prove, prove that you can do this. And then you have a short leash in game two. Like if you give up a goal early, a couple of goals early, you're out. And then Annenin has to come in. And you know, Anoonin could be. We've seen this a million times, Aidan Hill and, you know, Jordan Binnington, guys that come out of nowhere and go on long Stanley Cup runs.

That's entirely possible that Eustace and Noon becomes a household name this spring. But for now, you have really no choice. You have to go back to Giorgiyev for at least the start of game two and hope that he's determined to prove that that, you know, that's not him because you don't have really any other options. That's the concern right now. It's funny because in NHL history, you think about Washington did it, right?

They started with Gruberauer in the year that they won the cup. he had two bad games, in comes Holtby, they win the cup. Carolina in 06, they start with Martin Gerber. He has two bad games. He's out. Cam Ward comes in.

But for some reason, it always seems to be two games. Well, you've got to give him a second chance. Like, if that's your guy, he's been your guy all year. It's an absolute panic mood to just yank him out of there after one bad game.

Connor He gave up six goals. You get taken him out tomorrow? Of course not. No, but I mean, he did face 40, That might have been the best six goal performance I've seen by a goalie, actually. Yeah. So how do you feel? Okay, now put yourself in the shoes of Nate McKinnon, Kail McCar, the abs.

Are you feeling optimistic? Because, hey, we pumped six past the impenetrable, Conner Hellbuck. We got six by them. We should be feeling good. Or do you feel, oh, my God, we scored six on Connor Hallibuck. We are not doing that again, and we didn't win. I think that those guys are wired in a way where they're not thinking, oh my God, I think that they, you know, they're not the panicky sort, but there has to be

significant frustration in that locker room to know what an opportunity they squander, to get it to steal a game on the road, to score six goals on Connor Hellabuck. And every single player on every single team will tell you they have the utmost confidence in their goaltending, I guarantee you they do not have any confidence in Alexander Georgiav. They just don't. They know they're going to have to score five, six goals every game because they're giving up too much. Like, it's just they have, they have, there's no. possible way they have faith in their

goal-tending right now. Maybe they believe in Annen. Maybe he's a guy who can give them that kind of confidence. But they're going to have to play differently because of the way Giorgiyev is playing. They're going to have to be more conscious in their own end. They're not going to be as aggressive offensively. And that's going to cost them because one of the things that makes the avalanche so great

is the way they attack, is the way they're aggressive. The amazing thing on Giorgiyev is because he racked up so many wins, I think a lot of people just, if you were just looking from the outside, you didn't really do a deep dive. You're like, oh, this guy won 38 games or whatever. The GMs will give him the Vesina for that. I kid you not.

Do you think there's a scenario where he's a finalist because he had 39 wins or do you think? It's like it's like giving the Sye young to the guy who has 18 wins on a 120 win team, isn't it? It's unbelievable how they do that. If he's a finalist, then we have to like, we have to rip the votes away because he's been bad most of the year. He's just, he's been not even like, he's been, hasn't even been like mediocre or middling. He's been kind of bad. And, and you know what they need in Colorado is exactly what Darcy Kemper gave them

two years ago, which is just be the guy. Just be good enough. Just don't lose games. We're not asking you to win games. The Colorado Avalanche would win the Stanley Cup with 905 goaltending. Yeah. You don't have got to be 930. You can win the Stanley Cup in Colorado with 905 goaltending.

And that just does not seem achievable. for Alexander Giorgia. By the way, like I said, he was 696. Yeah, that's pretty good. I don't need to do the math, but that's a little off of your 905. It's pretty bad. 905 mark. Let's talk about Rangers Capitals for a moment because...

Oh, God, we have to talk about Matt Rempey, don't we? We do have to talk about Matt Rempey because about two minutes into that game, right? He takes a charging penalty and we're like, here we go. Matt Rempe and all this. And then the guy opens up the scoring in the game. And give him credit. He did what he had to do. He's had a lot of focus on him.

But for his first ever, Stanley Cup playoff game, the kid delivered, didn't he? That's, it's unbelievable. He has this, like, magic power to be the story, no matter what, good, bad, good and bad. The story is always somehow Matt Rampi on this team with so many stars with Artemi Panarin and Mika Zabanajad

and Alexei Lefrenier and Igor Ches-Serk. Somehow we're always talking about this gigantic fourth-line kid. it's really something. And hey, give him credit. Like that, you know, your first ever playoff game and you take a stupid penalty early on, like that was a bad hit. He's lucky he didn't get more for it. That could, you know, that could really sap you of your confidence and really have you

questioning yourself. But he goes out there and he goes to the net and he gets the goal. I mean, he seems to be kind of just mentally impenetrable. Like he is just out there doing his thing. Nothing gets to him. The fighting, the penalty. he's confident in himself and what he can do. And this is what wins series, right?

It's contributions from the guys you're not supposed to get contributions from. The exact description you laid out for Matt Rempey sure sounds a lot like Tom Wilson back in the day. To a lesser degree. Tom Wilson, I think, has obvious, much more skill, I think, than Matt Rempey does. Yeah.

Yes. At any point in this series, do we see Tom Wilson v. Matt Rempey in some way, shape, or form? I'm not saying that. I don't think we'll see a fight because that is a bad tradeoff if you're the capitals. You know, if you're doing the calculus on that, giving up five minutes or potentially 17 minutes of Tom Wilson to get Matt Rempey off the ice for five minutes, that's a dumb move. But I do think that there's something about Rempey.

He has this gravitational pull where you want to hurt him out there. You want to hit him. And I don't think Tom Wilson, that's going to be like a moth to a flame for that guy. I don't know. The good thing is I'm not sure Tom Wilson's tall enough to give a headshot on Matt Remby. So it might be wind up being a perfectly clean. He might go head hunting and accidentally deliver a clean shoulder into the chest of Rempe. It might work out beautifully.

How do you feel about it? And by the way, that was an afternoon kind of playoff game, right, yesterday? And say with Lightning Panthers. How much as a hockey fan do you like those afternoon? And yesterday it was like it was the Panthers at home, Rangers at home. jets at home, connects at home, boom, boom, almost back to back to back.

To me, this is why I love round one. Round one is the best round by far. And it's weird because in the regular season, I don't love afternoon games. Sometimes they feel sleepy or whatever. Afternoon playoff games are awesome. Yeah, I mean, I always look at this way.

If the NFL can do it and get 40 million viewers, there's no reason every other sport shouldn't have afternoon day games. Like, absolutely, the NCAA women's basketball championship was on at like four o'clock in the afternoon. The final four games were on like four o'clock in the afternoon. And they got more viewers than the men's, not just because we all wanted to see Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese and all that, but it's the perfect time for sports.

You know, you go out and you play a youth soccer game in the morning. You come home, you mow the lawn. And then you got all afternoon to just sit on the couch and veg out and watch sports. That's what we want to do as human beings is watch sports on a Sunday afternoon. I want to watch Sunday at the Masters. I want to watch the NFL. I want to watch the goddamn Stanley Cup playoffs and not have to stay up till past midnight to do it. You know, these Central Times, like, you know, the Nashville, if you're a Nashville Predators fan last night,

you had to wait till almost 9 p.m. local time to watch on a work night, on a school night, to watch your team play. I can't stand the way they schedule Central Time Zone games in the NHL. If anything, the Central Timesones should get priority on the day games just so we don't have to stay up for these games. day hockey is the best. The first round of the playoffs is so good because you have all this excitement. You got 16 teams.

You got upset potential. The second round is death. The second round is when you get, oh my God, we got three more rounds of this. I don't know if I can handle this mentally, emotionally, physically.

You're all tired. Then you get to the conference final and starts getting exciting because you're in the final four years. You're playing for a trip to the final. Then obviously the final is amazing. So I hate the second round of the playoffs. The first round,

that's the best, man. There's just hockey on all the time. and it's the best. I'm on the West Coast right now. You want to talk about amazing? On Sunday morning at 9.30. I don't like. That's too much.

It's too far in the extreme. Panthers lightning started at 9.30 here. I'm in Seattle. 9.30. I was out in Vegas and L.A. last week of the season, just last week. And I kept forgetting, like, what time it was. And like, I'm going to go watch the games out.

Oh, what, they're over? And it's 5 o'clock. What the hell am I supposed to do? the rest of the day now. Yeah, it's a, it's really, and it feels weird like you'd be like, I think I'll make an omelet and watch the, what's the playoff game? Cags and eggs, right? That's like a high school, college football, those 11 a.m. starts, kegs and eggs.

Yeah. Oh, man. So anyway, but, hey, Tampa, Florida, I feel like this, this could be a six or seven game series. And, and I know that Stamco scored really late in that game to make it three, two, but, uh, Florida's big guy showed up in that game. And right, it was Ryan Hart for Hagee, Matt Kachuk. I just feel though, like, last, this is, this is going to go set. I feel like this is going to go six or seven games. I feel like the lightning have just enough left in the tank for one last great series.

And I know they weren't great on Sunday. I feel like this could be the one to go six or seven. We deserve for this game to go, the series to go six or seven games. games. Like, like, last time they played, it was a great series, but it was a sweep. Like, every game was really close. We deserve a real battle of Florida here. And I do, you do kind of get the sense that it's Tampa's last stand that, you know, they might be losing Stamcoast this offseason. And, you know, there's only, they're clinging to this kind of era. They still went forward at the trade deadline, which you got to admire. I'm not sure how smart it was,

but you got to admire that. And this feels like it's Tampa's last stand. If Florida is able to knock them off in the first round. I'm not sure where you go from here if you're Tampa. It might be time to start thinking long term. So this is a big deal. This is one of the titans of the sport for the last decade, kind of not going quietly into that good night against the new kid on town. Florida kind of burst under the scene a couple of years ago with the president's trophy. They go to the final last year. There are trendy pick to win the cup or go to the final again this year. This could be a passing of the torch from kind of the Gulf Coast of Florida to the Atlantic coast of Florida. And it's a, I hope it goes six or because it was a great game.

Like it might have been the best actual standard hockey game because Colorado Winnipeg was something else completely. Tampa, Florida, that was a great game to watch. Just a nice, clean, good hockey game. And it ends, of course, with the fans in Sunrise pelting the ice with little tiny rats. Of course.

And I'm wondering, like, how much, like, what's the cost per rat? Do you have any idea? Didn't we do a story on this last year? I think the Russo or someone did a story on this last spring. Because I was thinking about this again, because I'm like, man, that's a lot of rats again. And like, if it's two bucks a rat, I get it.

Like, is it $5 a rat? $10 a rat? In my head, like the local, like, you know, the local kosanostra controls the plastic rat scene out there. And like, you know, they're making all their, they're making all their business. It's like, it's like the Simpsons with the pretzels money instead of the pretzel monies. I need the rats monies. I need the rats monies.

I need the rat monies. Where's the rat monies? I need the rat monies. Our producer, Chris Flannery is not a Simpsons guy. so he's like, what is this March Simpson launched her own pretzel business? I'm telling you, I just watched Lisa on ice. It was on TV last night, which is not the best Simpson's episode, but it is the flattuckiest episode.

I'll tell you, the avalanche could, they should use Millhouse and that. Just tie them up. You call that blowing? Yeah. Alexander Georgie, I'm going, do you have my teeth? Yeah. Hey, by the way, our producer, Chris, has just said, on the rat story.

Mike Russo did do the story last year and you can buy a 33 pack of rats on Amazon for 1499, which begs the question, why 33? Like, that's a weird number. Is that Scott Mulanby's number?

What's a 33 pack? I don't know. That's kind of odd. It's a lot easier to smuggle a plastic rat in than an entire octopus, though. So I think Florida still has it easier than Detroit fans do. I think so. I think so.

The other game that we haven't hit on other series that happened on Sunday, you talk about a great atmosphere in Winnipeg and it looked awesome. Vancouver fans were waiting nine years. They hadn't played a playoff game at home in nine years because of the only other time was the bubble and that wasn't in Vancouver. They were ready to go and that place exploded with those two goals in 12 seconds. This could be a tough series for Vancouver. We've always thought this is going to be a three.

puff out, but if anybody needed to win, and by the way, the home teams are perfect six and all to start, which is unusual. Not only unusual last, I saw the NHL, I saw them squeating out record breaking. So this is the first time this has ever happened where the home teams has won each of the first six games. It sounds like it. That's incredible. I remember back when the Blackhawks, when I was covering the Blackhawks and they were, you know, dominant every year, they never cared about their seating because they thought,

Home ice means absolutely nothing in the NHL. We just want to be in the best position physically for the end of the season. We are not going to fight for a seat. If we're the six seed, I don't care, we'll still win the cup. I think most NHL teams feel that way. Maybe we're seeing something different this year. Yeah, but I would say of all the home teams, and I even include Edmonton on this, of all the home teams that are starting game one,

I don't think anyone had more pressure than Vancouver. Because I think if you had lost game one, the seed would be planted, and that is fertile soil in Vancouver, just to plant the seed of here we go again, and we're not going to do it, and this is the soil. So for them, trailing in the third period

to come back and score twice in 12 seconds, I don't think anybody needed to win more on the weekend than the Vancouver can us. The Vancouver exists in this perpetual state of nervousness, it feels like, and pressure and tension. I was reading Thomas Durant's story this morning off the game. And like one of the first comments

off of a playoff victory, like you said, the first one in nine years at home, one of the first comments was, this is a waste of time. They should have re- they should tear this down. And five years from now, we can have a playoff win that matters with real homegrown talent. Like they're calling for a tank while they're winning playoff games as a high seed.

It's just the most Vancouver thing I've ever seen in my life. They needed this more than yes. 100%. Like, you know, McIndoo came out with his pressure rankings and he had Vancouver 8th, I believe. Vancouver is always number one, even more than Toronto. Vancouver is just this eternal

pressure cooker up there. And that was a big win because Nashville was the better team in that first period. I'm like, oh man, Nashville's got this. They've got the better. This is two great goalies, but Saros is great. They are playing their style a game. So for them to get the Canucks to get those two goals real quick

and release that tension to just kind of flip that pressure valve was absolutely massive for the team and for the city. Yeah, huge, huge response to the third period by Vancouver because they just had to have that one. It felt like it. The series

that we haven't mentioned, which I think we all felt would be the most nondescript vanilla, not even French vanilla. We must be talking about the islanders soon. What? What do you mean? You know, islanders hurricanes, and that's

for a myriad of reasons, just style of play or whatever. We just didn't think that this would be a compelling matchup. And sure enough, game one was actually basically a two to one game. I think hurricanes added the empty dinner. But everything about game one was just on brand, wasn't it? It was. It was, it was

the Islanders playing kind of above their heads and above their level because they just were working so hard. And then it's still not being enough because Carolina is just so fast, so deep, so ferocious on the forecheck that, like, I don't know how you take that game if you're an islanders fan because that's about as well

as that team can play, and they still didn't win. Is it encouraging that they can play that well and that competitive? It's not compelling, but it's competitive. That's good. But if it's not enough, then, you know, that's bad. And there's potassium benzodiaeat also, and that's also bad. Oh, man, another Simpsons reference. It's like the, uh, you know, over goes to that shot.

The ball rolling downhill now, so. Yeah, exactly. What's your trust level in Frederick Anderson? Like, he was really good in game one. I think he made 33 saves or something like that in game one. Frederick Anderson is always great in the first round, right? It feels like he's always great early on. I always come back again, that 2015 series, which was 100 years ago now I realize,

when he was on the Ducks and he was unbeatable for two and a half rounds. And the Blackhawks were down three to two. And Frederick Anderson was incredible. And then Jonathan Taves just broke his brain. He scored an equalizer in game five. And then the winner and then in game six and seven just owned him. And I feel like I know I've never looked at Freddie Anderson the same again. I don't trust him in a high level leverage game.

I think he's like this is what, this is why I'm still so skeptical about Carolina. They went out and they got, they finally got the goal score in Jake Gensel. We've always said they needed a true sniper and they got him. I just, I don't have, I don't believe. I'm not a Freddie Anderson believer. I've just seen him wilt in the big moment just a couple too many times.

Yeah, it's funny because he, He was the guy in Toronto for so many years in that window where they were in the Matthews era. And they just couldn't quite get over the hump. And he, man, I don't know. I want to choose the guy. He's a good goalie. He's a good goalie. Yeah.

I just, is he a championship caliber? Like, it's different between being good and being the guy who wins a championship. That's like a different level. And it's not always about skill and ability. I just, it's like a personal thing with him. Like, it's nothing against the guy. I've just, it's, he's been in the league for so long now. and he's never done it.

He's never kind of come through in that huge moment. But here's what's strange about, like, Freddie Anderson. It's like we talk about, we said with the avalanche, you know, you just need a guy to just backstop you, just be good enough, whatever. The way that Carolina plays, in theory, shouldn't they also just need that? Like, how come this level of goaltending hasn't taken?

But, of course, they've gone to the conference final. It's not like they're one and done. Yeah. But how could they have the hurricane? Maybe you're right. Maybe the Gensile acquisition is what allows them to do that. Now, maybe they are a team now that does have enough punch to be a team that can win with mediocre goaltending. And maybe Freddie Anderson gives them great goaltending. Maybe this is, you know, the fact that he's even playing this year is great and remarkable.

And for me playing this well is so cool. And I think a lot of us kind of want to see that for Freddie Anderson, for Carolina. This is a team that's been a Stanley Cup favorite for four or five years now and hasn't really been able to break through to the final. I think a lot of us would be excited to see them do it. I just, I have to see it. I have to see it to believe it. And I just, it's one thing for like an unknown rookie to come in and have a run.

It feels like we know what Freddie Anderson is. When a goalie's been around this long, we know what he is. And it would be really surprising, but really cool if you were able to change, kind of change his stars, so to speak, this late in his great. career. That'd be really cool, but I'm skeptical. All right, last, tell you what, let us hit up our insider. As we usually do, we usually have Pierre LeBron and Chris Johnston, but Pierre is on his way to Edmonton for Game 1 of that series.

CJ is in Boston, where game two of the Bruins and the Leafs will go on Monday night and all the drama, CJ, all the intrigue, Willie Neelander. Can you just explain to us how we got here? Because this guy's like the epitome of health, stability, consistency, never misses game. games, all of a sudden he missed game one. What's happening with William Neelander? Yeah, it's an interesting one, right? Because it's not only does he not miss games.

He played all 82. He had a two minute and 22nd shift in the final game of the regular season that went into the last minute of the game. There was nothing obvious or apparent that happened to him. And I think that that's part of the mystery that's gone on here, you know, from what I've been able to tell. And the Leafs have gone into Fort Knox mode already with injuries. Like, it's like you can't even whisper about it or someone is concerned that maybe

they're going to have their employee card turned in or something. But it does sound as though he woke up after the last game of the season, feeling uncomfortable. I think it's something that anyone of a certain age can identify with. Maybe wake you up in the morning and just your body isn't quite as loose as you're used to it being. If you know what I'm winking at here and, you know, he hasn't been able to skate until Sunday. So he missed the game Saturday night. I would think based on what I saw Sunday,

I sort of staked out the arena where it was basically just scratches and William Blander skating. He's going to try to give it a go for game two, but that's part of the drama. The Leaves will not tell us, I'm certain of that, until it's time to put in their lineup officially. But, you know, a tough one for them. William E. Lander had a great season for the Leaves. They can obviously use them, and they got beat pretty handily in the first game of the series. I have to think there's a psychological component to this, too, for the rest of the Maple Leafs, because, I mean, this is obviously, we've talked forever about how top-heavy this team is, your big four forwards. When you lose one of those guys, especially someone who's just

a linchpin in that lineup. How does that affect the rest of the lineup? Well, basically in game one, they had one line that's sort of threatened offensively. Now, their fourth line got a goal, full credit to them.

That's a nice bonus to have in the playoffs. But really, the only time they were threatening the Bruins neck consistently was when Austin Matthews was on the ice. You know, the Tavares martyr line, I didn't think, got a whole lot done at five on five together.

And so, yeah, it weakens what the Leafs have. Is he in reference there? That was only the second game of his whole career. He's misdue to injury, you know, 650-odd game career for William Mielander. So it's not even a thing that they're accustomed to. And, you know, the Leafs, one thing they've done is they've sort of shipped around their blue line.

They've added more physicality back there, but they don't have puck-moving defenseman anymore. I mean, other than Morgan Riley, they don't get to puck up to the forwards. And I think one thing that William Meilander does so well is he's basically a breakout machine by himself. He's very good at taking the puck from his own end and gaining the offensive blue line, allowing the leaps to play where they like to play. And so being down that player, I just think they didn't spend enough time in that game really established themselves in the offensive zone.

And that would have been one area where he would help and presumably could help be returns for game two. Goaltending is always such a focal point in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Laz and I have talked about what's going to maybe happen with the avalanche. Any chance that Ilius Hamstanov, CGA, who gave up four goals on 23 shots in the opener, any chance he's on a short leash here? might be on a short leash, but I would be stunned if he's not starting.

Like I think he gets to go back into game two. But if it doesn't go well, I mean, I think by Wednesday night in Toronto, we're talking about Joseph Wall playing for the Leafs. I mean, when I look around the league, like we have 16 teams in the playoffs. It would not surprise me if 10 of the teams play two goalies at some point in the first round. I just think that it's so much more common now than it used to be. And Toronto would be a team that I would think is very likely to do that. Look, even the Bruins, as we're recording this, they haven't named their game two starter.

As great as Jeremy Slaman looked in the opener, it wouldn't surprise if they went back to Lina Sahlmark because they've alternated goalies for 27 straight games up to this point right now, basically since late February. They've just gone every other game, one or the other starts, and I could see them doing that. So you mentioned the Bruins' goaltending situation, and this is just fascinating to me. As someone who's just, as anyone who's watched hockey for years, you ride the hot hand, especially in the playoffs. The idea of going to a second goalie is just anathema of everything we've ever learned about hockey over the years. And you're right. I mean, Jeremy Swaman, I think he was 36 saves.

He was fantastic in that game. And it's a real possibility that he doesn't play a game too. What are the goaltenders think about this? Are they just comfortable with this? Is this just the new reality for goalies in the NHL that you're never the guy unless you're Connor Hellebuck or Andre Vasselowski? I do think, I mean, I'm sure there's a goalie out there that hates it. If someone's listening to this pod probably going like, CJ, defend the goal. goalies, but I almost feel like there's no choice in this situation. It's just, it has become so common,

right? There's maybe like five goalies and some of them aren't even in the playoffs. I think I think Jacob Markstrom and Calgary would be one that he would be starting every game. Obviously, Basilisky, as long as he's healthy, you know, he let in seven, I think, in the cup final when they lost to Colorado. And then he, you know, he stayed in for all seven and then came back the next game. Like, you know, some goalies are playing every minute, but for the most part, they're the outliers nowadays. There's 25 teams anyway that really have two and on any. And on any. given day, they couldn't tell you maybe who their best one was or their most reliable one was because it changes by the conditions. You know, Boston maybe is a little different. I mean,

Swamoneman's a much younger goaltender than Olmark. I think he, you know, he's the guy of the present, but he's certainly going to be the player of the future for them in net. But, you know, at least in this specific circumstance, those guys seem like their best buddies. Like they seem to really build each other up. Remember, there was some talk at the deadline, maybe even about possibly moving Allmark from Boston as a way to maybe free up cap space to do some other things. And you know, after the deadline passed. He wasn't traded, you know, Swayman had a, you know, comment to the reporters.

Like, I'm just so happy you still here. So I think it works in this circumstance because they both had a ton of success while doing it together. That being said, you know, Kabakoska said Swayman on post game. And he was asked, you know, what was your reaction when you found you were starting game one?

He said, it's about time. So it's, it is a real delicate line to balance because obviously, you know, to get to this level, athletes have to have a certain mindset, have to have a belief for themselves. and it's just only one net,

and there's two or maybe three guys in most cities. So you're obviously covering Toronto, Boston, but just before you jumped into this series, C.J., you were in Arizona to watch the final game of the coyotes in Arizona for now, because we're supposed to believe that we're all just pressing pause for a few years. But what? He still owns a team. Exactly.

No, he owns the IP. What is it? All he's doing is sending every player and every employer. to another state forever. That's all he's doing. It's just normal. I don't know why everyone's overreacting. But what were some of your maybe most interesting takeaways or maybe moments, whether it was with fans or former Coyotes players, current players, just because I cover the last Montreal Exposed game ever in Montreal.

And it's a really emotional evening. And I still remember where I was and how it all felt. What was it like for you being at Mullet Arena last week for that Coyotes good time? I would say it was just truly weird. You know, it wasn't as a mo, it was certainly emotional. Like when I was on the sweet level, you're seeing, you know, Shane Don, hugging the staff members, people he's known for 20 or 30 years as a player of that organization.

And, you know, that was emotional. The players were somewhat emotional. But the building itself, like, if you would have just been dropped in there, Ian, and you sat in row three, you had a ticket, there was no acknowledgement. It was the end. It looked and felt like a hockey game. Certainly at the end of the game, the players saluted the fans and there was sort of a moment there. But it just was a janky, weird evening.

And I thought, how perfect, right? I mean, this franchise has been janky and weird all along for all kinds of reasons. I mean, we could spend an hour breaking down all the twists and turns and things that went on in Arizona. But, you know, I've always been of the opinion, certainly in the last few years anyway, that it should work in Arizona. This should be, you know, the way we talk about Tampa and Florida and Nashville and all these places, players want to go as free agents that they find great for the combination of lifestyle taxes, you know, playing situations. I mean, that should be what the coyotes are and maybe will be one day,

but they've just never been able to get it right there. So, you know, being in that college rank, I mean, the fans brought it. And I certainly do appreciate, you know, how it could be to be a fan to invest time and energy into something that doesn't really love you back and is now just sort of unceremoniously being ripped away from you. but most of the emotion was aid for the people that have been trying to make it work for so long and ultimately realized that just wasn't going to happen under the current conditions. Yeah, I get the sense that even the fans, the ones that just loved and lived and died with the coyotes,

there's such a fatigue with this constant, you know, threat of this that it didn't feel real almost. It was just like, yeah, it didn't have that moment of finality because they've been living on this knife's edge for years and years and years that it didn't seem to be like, I don't know, it was hard. Even watching it on television, it seemed almost like, there was like an aloofness to the atmosphere there. Yeah, and I think that's the case. I really do. And, you know, it was weird that night too because it was the last, you know,

game of the regular season for the Leafs. At the same time, we're preparing to say goodbye to the coyotes. A kid from Scottsdale was chasing his 70th goal in Austin Matthews. And we ultimately didn't score it. But, like, for me, it was just such a weird parallel. It's, I mean, the best goal score in the league is literally a hockey, player because the coyotes existed. It's not from a family that that followed the sport when he was young. He went to a game with his uncle and said, I want to play hockey. And here we go, all these

years later. And so it just, it didn't feel right that I understand why the NHL got to this point. I mean, I think we all do. Playing it out of that arena long term was not going to be a viable solution. I mean, anyone, whether you know about Alex Burl or not, if you just watch the press conference with Gary Bettman, I think you learned a lot about why maybe he might not be the ideal owner for a team and why there was a lot of, you know, freight relations with him within the organization, externally with business partners and a community, politicians. I mean, he just never, you know, did the things that you need to do, especially if you need, you know, an arena build, if you need to get help to, you know, make your franchise more stable. So they got to this point

and unfortunately, some fans got dragged along. I think people like Shane Don, who I mentioned earlier, played for the team so long as son Josh is on the team now. I mean, that should be such a nice story and I know they had a nice night when Josh got hauled up and scored two goals and his NHL debut and the whole family was there but I think everyone is tired and you know hopefully when the NHL does get financially back to Arizona I don't know

that's going to be five years 10 years might be a long long time more gray will be in my beard I know that much by the time but you know it will hopefully be done right because I do think it should be a promising market if you can ever line up to the moon and the stars you get the sense the NHL wants it to be five

years in one day, right? Get some other guy in there. It's just the look on Gary, this is the first time Gary Bettman has been a sympathetic figure. And I don't know how many years was him sitting next to Alex Marula going, geez, oh my God. What is this guy saying? Oh my God. Yeah, it's like someone sitting with their uncle who's saying too much at the dinner table, maybe at a family event or something like that. Alex Marulo, the drunk uncle, there you go. Yeah, it's like, you can't quite, you can't quite control what's coming out of his mouth. You know, you could, you could see Gary, like, grabbing his arm. grabbed his hand. Yeah, he's like, no, no, I got this, buddy. I got this.

It was, it was very cringe-worthy. And I would be stunned, even though Alex Morello retains the rights to bring the team back there, I just, I can't imagine that's actually going to happen. But he's got five years to make it so. My favorite part of that press conference was Alex Morello said, I think somebody asked him, how come you don't show up in public? You weren't at the last game. He's like, I don't like the media. You know, he says, I don't like the media. And then Betman, like 30 seconds editor after he's done speak, he's like, actually, let me clarify. Here's what I think he meant. Because it's like, I know exactly how this is going to land. And Betman's like, I think what he meant to say is he's a private guy.

He doesn't like the line light. He doesn't like the line light. Oh, man. I think he doesn't like the media, but, you know, the feeling might be mutual. Hey, listen, before we let you go, because I know you got a busy day on tap game to go to the morning skates. there in Boston. From the other series that have started, I know that there's a couple that will go on Monday night.

What's the thing that jumped out at you the most on the weekend? Like for you that maybe, I don't know if you were able to watch the games, but like you're like, wow, that was a surprise or I didn't see that coming. Well, 7-6 is a score. I don't expect to see in any hockey game,

but especially to start a playoff. So, you know, that game is sort of interesting, right? I think if the storylines, if you're heading into Colorado, Winnipeg I'm referencing. You're saying Winnipeg has a chance to win a series because their goaltending is so good. And Colorado's goaltending is questionable. Well, you can go to that game and it's like, wait a minute.

Colorado's goaltending, what's questionable? They scored seven, but how did they get six by Potter Hellowbach? Who's probably going to be the Vesan Trophy winner this year. So, you know, that that was probably the weirdest game. I did appreciate that, you know, Sam Reinhardt scored for Florida, but we saw a lot of the maybe lesser light scoring around the league. You know, he said Matt Rampi, you know, opened the score. for the Rangers in their game.

And I kind of love that about playoffs. Obviously, we're all storytellers in our own right. I love that there's all these stories that come along, and it's not always just the stars of the team that let it go. So it's been a weird start to the playoffs. Like, I kind of wish every team had already played already in the first two days, but this schedule has been very different, I guess, with the NBA impacting so much of what happens from American TV scheduling.

But, you know, I don't have a full sense of what we're dealing with yet, because I haven't seen so many teams play. But, you know, it's going to be an interesting playoffs. I did a Stanley Cup playoff to your story with Harmon Dale, where I was calling around the league. And there's no consensus to me on which team is the best. I mean, we're down to maybe five or six. But, you know, it's not a year where I don't think there's one clear favorite heading in.

And so I think it's going to be a lot of chaos these next two months. Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. And listen, I know that Boston should be electric on Monday night. So we look forward to your coverage from there and throughout this Stanley Cup playoffs. And hopefully if schedule permits, we'll hit you up again next Monday. And good luck catching the Bradelvator at TD Garden, Chris. Good luck. Oh, man.

Hopefully I get the garbage run. Smelt so good in there every time. See you guys. All right. Great conversation there with Chris Johnston. And CJ was talking about Arizona. We were chatting with him about the coyotes that last game. while CJ was in Arizona, I was in Salt Lake City last.

You had the happy Gary Betman. I had the happy. It was the complete opposite of the Gary Bettman we saw in Arizona a few hours earlier. And it's funny because I sit down at the press conference in Salt Lake City at the Delta Center. And now last month, about about a month ago, I got an hour of time with Ryan Smith, owner of the jazz who now owns the NHL Club in Utah. And we had a great conversation. This was on March the 10th.

And on March the 10th, now we know that just a couple of days earlier, he had maybe been alerted that, hey, maybe you could get Arizona. So I did a huge sit down with him and whatever. So I sit down at the press conference last, this week. Ryan Smith comes over to me and says, hey, Ian, I bet you didn't think you'd be back this quick. I was like, no. And we laughed and he said, you know what? Honestly, this came together like you wouldn't believe.

I wouldn't have believed it too. So I think the fact that, you know, it's crazy, they had that press conference on a Friday at 5 p.m. local time. That's news dump time. Dump, dump time, right? So that really paints the picture of how last minute this all was. Because nobody would willingly plan a 5 p.m. press conference on a Friday, would they? Unless it's the Boston Bruins firing a coach or something.

They're the kings of that. They're the news dump kings. Are they? Oh, my God. They have a history. They, they, they, they fire, did they fire a coach while Aaron Hernandez was being sentenced for murder once? Yeah, you're right. They did something, they did something while the Patriots were having a, a Super Bowl parade, like their little duckboat thing.

They, they've got a long history. They are the absolute, they are Artissts when it comes to newsdums. Speaking of Artis, since you went with the French angle there, all time classic news dump was, there was the day that the Montreal Canadiens they traded for Pierre Turgeon. I think they traded Kirk Muller to the Islanders, right? They got Pierre Turjan. On the same day,

on the same day, like within an hour of that, the Montreal Expos announced they were trading Marquis Grissom. And it was like, everyone knew, it was in the spring of 95, and everyone knew it was like, oh, come on. Like, you're just sliding that in because you know everyone's going to be talking about Pierre Turjan. That's like the first thing they do.

There's got to be, I imagine, like, Is there such a thing as like PR school? That's like the one thing they teach you is how to, how to bury bad news. Exactly. And our guest lecturer is Lou Lamarillo. He's coming in to speak with that. Lou would be the classic.

He wouldn't tell you anything, though. That's true. That would be the best PR school. But yeah, listen, the Salt Lake City stuff is really fascinating. I'm going back to Salt Lake this week last. On Wednesday, they are having their first event

with the players. They're going to have a public kind of welcoming at Delta Center. They're hoping 10, 15,000 people show up. I don't know how many will. But this is going to be the launch of, hey, we're going to let the players come in. We're going to let them see the place, all of that. But I'm really interested to see the reaction.

Like, I've been to Salt Lake now a couple of times. I understand it. So now I understand the energy there, all of that. what I'm curious about is what everyone else in the NHL world thinks of. I think we all agree getting out of Arizona was the right call. I'm curious what people like you who have covered this league a long time, who live in the Midwest, what you think of Salt Lake City as a market.

Well, I've been to Salt Lake a couple of times. It's beautiful, absolutely beautiful. And players will enjoy living there. I have no question about that. But I think this just shows how ownership is really the only thing that matters. Like, especially after getting burned with bad ownership in Arizona, all Gary Betman wants is a stable billionaire, right? That's all he wants because Houston has, is the third largest city, our fourth largest city in America. And he has an NHL caliber rink.

Quebec City has an NHL caliber rink. Salt Lake City does not have it. This is a, this is the Barclay Center 2.0. Like, this is not an NHL rink. And I know, but they believe that they're putting. their faith in a billionaire that it's going to get renovated and it's going to become one. This is a small city. This is not a proven NHL market in any possible way and they got a crappy arena.

The Delta Center is a crappy arena. They've got a billionaire that Gary Betman believes in and that's the only thing that matters. They want more Vinnie Viola types. They want more Bill Foley types. Everything else is secondary because if you have the billionaire, then you feel like everything else is going to fall into place and it will become a major league market because going to Salt Lake City on the surface makes absolutely no sense compared to going to somewhere like Houston or even somewhere like Quebec City. It's all about the guy, the family, the couple. It's,

it's, it's, I mean, you've been there. Tell me about the Delta Center because all I keep hearing is that it's 10,000 seats for hockey and you can't see the ice from any of them. It's Barclay Center. Yeah. So I think what they're saying is about 11,000 and a bit. will have great views, sight lines. That's not NHL caliber. That's fairly better than bullets. But within two years, they're going to get that up to 17.

And there's going to be extensive. They're going to basically hollow out that building and restart and reconfigure it. Seattle style, basically. That's what they did with Seattle. Climate Pledge is the old, right? Is the old building. Will they be able to do that and still have a hockey team?

It's not like they have a couple of years here. There's going to be hockey team playing there. but kind of like MSG, right? MSG underwent crazy renovations, but it took time, right? That's true. So I think that's what they're kind of looking at last, but. And they believe in Ryan Smith. That's what it comes down to is they trust Ryan Smith to do this,

where they didn't trust Alex Marillo to build an arena in a much better market. No. So I'm going to throw something out at you that I'm actually writing a column on this later this week. And it's about the idea of the Salt Lake's, city joining the NHL open the door to realignment

okay and realignment in the sense of let's go NFL style and let's go with eight divisions of four teams

okay and I'm not going to give you all the divisions I can see the anger in you already well well I'm just saying to do that you're going to want

to have Detroit in the central time zone and they begged out of the central time zone central division years ago because they didn't

like all those APN starts Yeah, but just hear me out Because there's lots of ways we can do this We can move things around Whatever, I'm flexible But I'm gonna give you your division With Chicago in it as the sample division Okay

St. Louis, Minnesota, Columbus and Chicago, that's what you're gonna tell me Or Nashville. Nope, nope You got a couple of them right, it is St. Louis, it is Minnesota, and it's Detroit And I know, I know. I'd love it.

I would love that. I miss all. all those Red Wings Blackhawks games, I missed that rivalry. Detroit would never allow it. They scurried off to the Eastern Conference because they didn't like being in the West. I mean, you look at the NBA and the geography is different, but like the Chicago Bulls are in the Eastern Conference in the NBA. Yeah.

Like this, the whole Midwest is kind of like, it's not, it's not East and it's not West. It's the Midwest. It doesn't really have a logical place in this. And Detroit is really the only quote unquote Midwest, major Midwest city with hockey that, that's in the Eastern Times zone. Well, I feel like the comment section of this story is going to be full of anger, hatred.

Some people will like it. It depends on how you're scheduling it. That's all that matters is how you schedule it, right? If the Blackhawks are playing the blues like eight times a year, nobody wants that. No, not eight times a year. No. I think the way I had it figured out is in your own division,

you would play three home, three away against your own division. So six. That's a lot. Okay? Yeah, but those are the teams you want to see usually. I feel like we've graduated. I feel like that's an old way of thinking.

Like in the old days, you wanted to see your rivalries. But now we're in this internet age where everyone watches all, every other team all the time. And people are familiar with teams in California and teams in Florida and teams in the Northeast. And everybody wants to see everybody now. I feel like division matchups don't carry the same weight they use. to. Back in the phone booth days, those were the days. The division matchups. So the way I had it was

like, yeah, you would play your own team and then you would play every other team in the league at least twice, once home, one road. And it works out. I feel like this is, you're probably right that I think something like that will happen. I think for Chicago's sake, I think it's more likely that they are in Nashville, St. Louis, Minnesota. The problem is we're clearly headed it's a 34, maybe even 36 teams. So do we realign, do we just kind of limp along for the next few years? Oh, and then realign, they don't want to realign every handful of years. But do you not agree that 34 teams is weird?

It's almost like a 33 pack of rats. That's just a weird number. Yeah, I mean, you want to have balanced conferences. So 36 is going to happen, right? If they're going to 34, that means they're going to 36. So six divisions of six? that might work too. I mean, we've had six divisions in the NHL before.

We bring back the Southeast Division, baby. Like, it just, I, there's not a great way to do this because of the way that the, when, when, when they moved Arizona into the central division, my thought was they should instead bring the two Alberta teams, bring Calgary and Eminton into the central and move Denver out into the Pacific. I thought geographically that made more sense, but from a rivalry standpoint, it doesn't because you don't want to separate Canadian. teams like that, right? You don't want to separate Calgary and Emmington from Vancouver and leave Vancouver on an island. But right now, Winnipeg's on an island in the central. So there's no way to make this work well. You could put Utah and Denver into the west and bring in Calgary and Eminton into the central, but you're not going to please everybody. There's no way to do this

with the geography of the NHL and the teams all bunched up in the northeast like that. It's really difficult to do this and have it be quote unquote fair. Yeah, exactly. And I know, I'm going to have to write a massive disclaimer at the top of this story where please don't be angry. It's just an idea. I think that your idea is probably going to happen. I think that's the most logical place to go and I'm not sure it's going to please anybody. I think everyone will hate it. Okay.

So then it's perfect for the NHL. If we all hate it, that's exactly right. That's my league. That's my league. All right. Let's tell you what, why don't we wrap up the pod as we always do on a Monday with our pal jessy Granger joins us as part of BetMGM, the exclusive betting partner with the athletic. We like to call it Granger things. And Jesse Granger, we got to hit you up with the Mark

Stone stuff because every skeptical hockey fan. By skeptical, I just mean every hockey fan has been looking at the Vegas Golden Night saying, man, if Mark Stone is ready for game one, this is garbage, this is BS. And guess what? He's ready to roll in game one. So walk us, through kind of how that first practice went, the media session with Kelly McCrimmon, how everything played out from your vantage point, because obviously there's a lot of emotions around the league from fans who are pretty salty about what's happening for the Vegas Golden Knights. Yeah, I totally understand why everyone would be as skeptical as they are. It is the second season in a row. He has been injured right before the trade deadline. All of that

cap space was then used to acquire awesome players. And then he returned to practice, exactly eight days before the playoffs started, which is exactly what happened last season to the day. I understand the skepticism. I do think that Mark Stone's spleen was actually lacerated. It is a real injury that he's been recovering from. And if the Golden Knights had their preference, he would not have been injured. The Golden Knights would rather have had Mark Stone for the last three months than use the cap space that they did because he was out. Having said that, I do think the timing of him coming back is a little odd. think that there's not a lot the league can do. It doesn't seem like the GMs are all that upset.

So what happened was he came back in a red no contact jersey, which is obviously the first step. And then two days ago, he practiced in a regular jersey full participant. But before the practice, General Manager Kelly McCriman held his press conference. It was a little odd that he did it before the practice. He always holds a press conference right before the playoffs. So that part of it is normal. But he wanted to basically explain everything. And to me that it's funny that this team that like no NHL team surrenders injury details without having to. This team is incredibly secretive when it comes to injuries. Like they are as secretive as a team in professional sports can be when it comes to injuries. But Kelly McCrimman was very detailed on Mark Stone's injury. He told

us it was a grade three laceration of the spleen, which I then had to quote the medical journal. I had to quote the National Institute of Health in my story, which I didn't think I would ever do. But we got those details. He also told us how tall the stacks of literature were that the doctor showed him. Yeah, he said, I'm going to explain it to you guys exactly the way the doctor explained it to me. And he put his hand up about a foot above the table. And he said, there's literature, there's a stack of literature this tall saying that it'll be at least three to six months. And then there's a stack of literature this tall with his hand about an inch above the table saying it'll be less than that. I don't really know what that's supposed to tell us, but it was information

we were given. I tried to, so like the, the one thing that Kelly did go over that I think fans should hear is that the NHL, the chief medical officer of the NHL is looking at every single piece of medical information that comes out for Mark Stone. And this isn't a case of like, are they going to the Golden Knights and asking, no, it just goes to them. When Mark Stone has a CT scan, when he has an ultrasound, when he has anything, which it's something like a spleen, those are basically the tools they're using to see if he's healthy, CT scans and ultrasounds. Every single one of those is being inspected by the NHL's chief medical officer. So if he was perfectly healthy a month ago, the NHL for sure would have known about it.

This is not a case of the Golden Knights can just pretend like he's not healthy. The NHL knows if he's healthy or not. So that part of it, now I tried to interview the chief medical officer. That's not happening. and Gary Bettlin is not going to talk about any individual injury. So we just have to take the Golden Knights side of it. And with all the information we have, there's no proof of any wrongdoing here. And you ask GMs around the league like Mike Russo did.

And none of them have any problems with what the Golden Knights are doing. So while I understand fans being upset, I understand the timing is very fortunate for the Golden Knights. I don't see what else we can possibly do here other than just accept that Mark Stone has been hurt at a very fortunate time for the Golden Knights two years in a row. It's funny because this started back in 2015 when Patrick Kane broke his collarbone late in February and the Blackhawks go out and they get Antoine Vermet and it might not win the cup that year without Antoine Vermet as their third line center. And now it's like the model.

This is just part of being a GM now is trying to manipulate LTIR whenever you can. it feels like just like listening to, it feels like McCriman really resents the idea. Like I think Bill Foley is probably cackling in his office right now about all this. He thinks it's hilarious. I feel like Kelly McCriman is like really like you said, the lengths he's going to to kind of say, look, I'm not screwing around here.

He really seems to bother him the response that he inevitably gets. It does. He even said like he phrased it, I don't think the fans or. the media understand the scrutiny that these injuries are under. He went in to say like there are, he said, let's first talk about the Markstone injury because there are a lot of insinuations going on out there. Like he is, he is well aware of everything that's being said by hockey fans on Twitter.

And it does seem to bother him. So, Jesse, it looked like for the longest time we were going to get Vegas at Edmonton. In fact, right into the final game of the regular season, it looked like we were getting Vegas in Evanton. And then the old switcheroo, in your mind, now they get Dallas. How does that play into, you know,

Vegas's strengths, weaknesses? Is this a significantly worse matchup, better matchup, about the same? How do you see them playing Dallas versus maybe that they would have played Adventant? Yeah,

it was, there was no way they were going to play anyone but Pete DeBore, because that's the rules, apparently. The Golden Knights must play Pete DeBore in the playoffs. It is written in the stars. No, but I think it's a slightly better,

matchup than Edmonton would have been. I will say this. I think Dallas and Edmonton are very tough matchups for any team and they're tough for Vegas. I think just on paper, the rosters and like, I guess maybe not on paper because Vegas has all these guys coming back. But considering a lot of Vegas's stars haven't played, Alex Petrangelo is coming off of having his appendix removed. He hasn't played since having his appendix removed. Mark Stone hasn't played in months. On paper, Dallas looks like the stronger team. To me, what makes me think Vegas has a chance to win this series is the systems, I think, favor the Golden Knights a lot. I know Pete's system really well.

I covered him against him in San Jose. I covered him for three years in Vegas. And then I watched last year's series, his offensive system of really taking a lot of shots from the blue line and going low to high and your defensemen are very involved. I think it struggles against a team that plays a zone defense that kind of builds a shell around the net and it's real compact. the first time I ever noticed it was when he was the coach of the Golden Knights and it was the bubble year they played the Vancouver Canucks in the bubble and it was the year Thatcher Demko was playing out of his mind and Vegas was out shooting them four to one in every game and couldn't beat Vancouver because they couldn't get to the dangerous parts of the ice and they just they kind of just took those outside shots well Cassidy runs a very similar system to the one Vancouver was running it's it's a zone defense where they protect the front of the net and last year in the Western Conference final I thought doubt

Dallas really struggled with playing against that system. So both teams still run the same system. They have mostly the same players. I do think Dallas is going to struggle. I think systematically Vegas has an advantage. But I think Dallas has the better players. They probably have the better goalie. So it's going to be a really good series.

This one, I think this is probably the hardest series to pick in the first round for me. What is the goalie situation in Vegas? Who's going to get the net? And how long will we have it for? Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's going to be Logan Thompson. Cassidy wouldn't answer it yesterday. but I do expect it to be Logan Thompson.

He was after the trade deadline, he had the second best safe percentage in the league. And Aden Hill had multiple injuries and really struggled. And even his last start, the last game against Anaheim that they lost, he led in a couple soft ones that he definitely would not. He wants those back. So my opinion of it is I think Bruce Cassidy actually trusts Aden Hill a little more, which is understandable. He won a Stanley Cup for him last year, and he was brilliant in the playoffs.

So I think Cassidy was trying to give Aden Hill every chance he could to take the starting job down the stretch. And he didn't. And then Logan Thompson deserves credit. He did take the net. I thought Thompson played a lot better than Hill. I think he's been the better goalie for the second half of the season. So I would expect Thompson to start tonight. But for all those reasons I just said, I don't think the leash is real long.

I think if Cassidy gets an option to go to Aiden Hill at some point, I don't think he'll hesitate to go to Aden Hill. So he already told us he expects to see both goalies at some point. in the playoffs. So I think we will see both. I think it starts with Thompson and maybe they turn to Hill if Thompson can't get it done. But so far, the second half a season, he's given plenty of reasons to believe he can get it done. That series kicks off on Monday. We've had six other series and last night we're talking about this, Jesse, six other series where the home teams went six and oh. So kind of they taking care of business, the favorite, so to speak, taking care of business. So Tampa loses, Washington loses, the avalanche lose, Nashville.

the islanders lose and Toronto lose. So out of those six teams as we look around in round one, has anything shifted significantly in terms of when we look at the betting lines on any of those teams of, you know what, you lost game one?

We don't feel very confident or the betters don't feel very confident. Or is there a smart way to look at this with that? Toronto's going to be okay or somebody's going to be okay. Toronto's never going to be okay. Yeah. That's probably fair to assume. I think that the odds, when you look at the series odds, the prices on the series, they pretty much go, like they go the exact way you'd expect them to. The teams that not many people gave a chance, their odds are even higher now. Like the Islanders are plus 500 to win the series now that they've gone down game one. The Capitals are plus 650. The Rangers are minus a thousand in this series. You would have to bet $100 to win $10. for the Rangers to win the series. So those ones, but like those series, people already didn't give

the chance before the series started. You lose a game and it's that much worse. And then, and then you've got like the avalanche were favored prior to game one against Winnipeg. And after that wild game, they are now plus 135 and Winnipeg's minus 155. So pretty close odds still. But obviously, now that Winnipeg's got one win, they move ahead of the avs. So nothing crazy. I'm wondering from you guys, like, is there a team that lost game one that you still are confident is going to win the series? And then we can maybe look at the odds of what that team is. Like, is there a team out there? Probably Colorado might be the answer.

Like that lost game one that you're still feeling good about? It's Washington, isn't it? No. Do you believe in Charlie Lindgren? Is it only me? Is it only me? Yeah, I think it's Colorado, isn't it, guys? I would say, I mean, I mean, obviously we have our Georgia of concerns, but that team is just so stacked and so good.

experience that you'd be foolish to write them all. That's still a toss up to me. Winning one game does not change that to me. I understand the mathematics of why it changes the betting lines, but that series is still 100% a toss up to me. I picked the Jets to win in five. So I don't. Well, you're the goalie guy.

Of course you did. I think it is. I think the aves are sitting there in their locker room after the game last night, saying, you guys, we scored six on Connor Hellebuck and lost. what are how can we possibly win this series i don't like like that they will not have a better offensive game than that and the odds that georgiev is that bad again are good like i i don't think it's that that that's right in his his range of possibilities so i'm very concerned for the abs the team if i had to pick a team that lost game one that i still like it would probably be

Tampa and that series is a little they're not the odds aren't quite as close they've got florida a minus 380 and the lightning are plus 310. So you can get the lightning at 3 to 1 to win that series. I picked him in 7 to begin the series. I still feel good about it. It was a close game. The Panthers were the better team. But Vasselowski's going to have to be really good.

And I think he can be. So that would be the team, I think, has the best chance of coming back from 1-0 with all these road teams. It's interesting. When the home team wins game one, they win the series 75% of the time, which seems really high. But I guess the home team is. Pass is not prolog, Jesse. Doesn't mean anything in the NHL.

Yeah, yeah. A quick thought on that Nashville, Vancouver series from your perspective, because, you know, the Predators were winning in the third period of that game, and UC Soros does have the potential to maybe steal a game or a series. Do you have faith in the Predators maybe coming back in that series? I think that's going to be a really tight series in terms of, like, I just think every game is going to be one goal game because they both check so well. There's not a lot of space out there.

Going from the Winnipeg, Colorado game, where it was just a circus back and forth, and then you go to that game, and there's no ice for anyone to make any passes. It was so tight checking. Those two games could not have been more opposite. I think it's going to be a tight series. The thing that worries me is, so UC Saros is a stud. We all know that. This has not been a good season for him.

Of all the years, he's been a full-time starter since, like, taken over for Pecorine. This is by far his worst season he's had. and he's just not in the same flow that he has been in past seasons. And it's kind of sad because he was way better, like in a better form. He was in better form in other post seasons, but he didn't have a team that was worth a crap in front of him. So it didn't matter how well he played. They weren't going to do anything.

Well, now Nashville is actually a pretty good team. Like this team could go on a run and he's not in form. So can he find the form? Yes. I mean, Soros is one of the top five goalies in the world. He can find the form. But right now, to me, he doesn't look. good. He, like, he's not tracking the puck. He looks a little behind the play. A couple of those goals last

night that squeaked through him. It's not like they were backdoor goals where he had no chance. Like, I thought Soros didn't look at his best and he hasn't looked at his best for a while, whereas on the other end of the rink, Demko is, he looks very good. Demko looks locked in. This is the best season he's ever had. He's come back from that injury and looks, to me, hasn't missed a beat. He looks just like he did before the injury. So I think you've got two very good goalies, one who's feeling great about his game and one who's maybe not. feeling as good. Things change quickly in the playoffs. We know this. Like one game by Soros where he makes 50 saves and suddenly here he is again. So we'll see. But right now, Saros, not quite as good as I think he normally is. You being the goalie guy, are you the one person in the planet that would rather watch a Canucks Predator style game than a Colorado Winnipeg style game? No, actually. This is a misconception.

Goalies do not like no chance low event games. I like the high event games because I I think it makes the goalies more important. When you play a low event game with good checking and very little high danger chances, the goalies don't play as much of a role, I think, whereas if the teams are trading chances, the team with the better goalie is probably going to win. So I actually like the high event games. I like them to save the events,

but I do like the scoring chances to happen. Guy from Vegas likes high event things. That's shocking term of events. Well, listen, this is going to be a lot of fun to watch that series. I'm with you. I think Vegas, Dallas has the potential of Jesse, to be a, this should be the Western Conference final in many ways. So getting it in round one is going to be a lot of fun.

We look forward to your coverage. And you have anything picked out in Dallas? Is there a favorite spot for Jesse Granger, food-wise or anything? In Dallas? Yeah, there's so much good barbecue here. I feel like I'm not really a big barbecue person, like in general, but if I come to Texas, that's the rule. I've got to get barbecue.

I'm blanking on. Pecan Lodge is a place. Pekin Lodge is a great place. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you got to stand outside. like it's like the line goes outdoors and like through a neighborhood, but it's worth wait the wait.

So I was there last month or two months ago and their computer system went down as I was next in line after waiting in line for like 45 minutes. And goddamn, I waited 20 more minutes to make sure I got my barbecue until their computers came back. It's excellent. I got to make a stop over there before I go back to Vegas. There we go. Well, listen, like I said, looking forward to your coverage and should be a lot of fun.

That might be the best series of round one. You got a front row seat for it. So that's pretty much. all the time we have, guys, for the athletic hockey show. If you enjoyed the Monday pod with Lazan I, leave us a five-star rating and review. Coming up on Wednesday, it's, now

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in the fetal position. Because that'll be the day of game three. Toronto, Boston. Oh, man. I would, I would, I would, I would subscribe and pay for that. Yeah, 100%. But anyway, that's our next edition of the Athletic Hockey Show comes your way. Mac and Dew and Gentilly on Wednesday.

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