The Athletic Hockey Show - Can the Devils overcome the injury to Markström?

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

Hailey and Sean discuss the potential long term injury in New Jersey to Jacob Markstrom, and how Jake Allen and the Devils need to get in gear, to hold position as one of the top 3 teams in the Metro. They talk about Adam Fantilli's big night for the upstart Blue Jackets in Toronto and how Columbus should be a buyer at the deadline and the Wild welcoming back Hart Trophy candidate Kirill Kaprizov and captain Jered Spurgeon to their lineup. Shayna Goldman joins to talk about her favorites for the Wildcard spots in the East and West and provides her preferred destinations for JT Miller ahead of the deadline and we take a look at PWHL expansion candidates. Hosts: Hailey Salvian and Sean GentilleWith: Shayna GoldmanExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What's up, everybody. Welcome to another episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. It's Haley and Sean here on this very warm, very cheery January. I feel all 31 of these days, Sean. How are you feeling? Greetings from Toasty Pittsburgh, PA, where the temperatures are creeping up into the high teens here today. It didn't snow yesterday for the first time in 2020.

So that's cool. Nice. Yeah. Things are looking up. It's not minus 10 today. Yeah. It's always a tough month. It's January.

It's usually not the stuff. This is a little tougher than usual. I pulled in the, I brought in the big guns yesterday. I went to my local grocery store and got some sleepy time tea. Yeah. You know, things are getting rough when you get that, when you just need to like. Yeah. Yeah, that's like one.

You need to start looking like the little bear on the Sleepy Time Tea packet. That's one step below buying like buying a sun lamp, like a vitamin D lamp on the seasonal effective disorder power rankings. Yes. Oh, I think this will help. Yeah. And like slowly morphing into the bear on the front of the packet with this little hat and pajamas and blanket. I think he has a name. Sleepy Time Tea Bear.

What's his last name? Boltman. That's where he's been. That's right. Side hustle is the Sleepy Time Tea Bear. Huge side quest for Max. All right. It's a slow, like, cold month, but there's actually quite a bit happening in the

NHL right now. So we have some headlines to run through today. Jacob Markstrom left Wednesday night's game for the New Jersey Devils with an injury. Adam Fantilli scored a hat trick in his hometown against the Leaps and Creel Caprizov could return for the wild tonight. We'll talk about all that today on the show. Shana Goldman's also going to join us. We'll look around the league with her and talk about some potential landing spots for, and yes, J.T. Miller, we're going to talk about it.

I feel like we've been good. We haven't gone all in on Canucks talk this season. speak for yourself on this show that I host we have not done the pylon we didn't talk about the miller petee battle or whatever people are calling it whatever the kids are calling it but we will go over that because shana did a good story with harmon on the athletic yesterday and that continues to be a huge story in the league right now but first let's just go over some of the new shan before Shana joins us. One of the big ones,

Jacob Markstrom, he left the devil's game in the second period last night after a collision with Justin Brazo. This was against the Bruins. Sheldon Keefe said after the game

that Markstrom would miss some time, but he also said they're going to take some time before they get the full extent of where he's at. He said he was in pretty good spirits after the game like feeling better

than he was after the initial collision. I don't know if you saw the clip. It didn't look great. also kind of look like a player pushed Brazo into Markstrom. Either way, Markstrom left the game. Jake Allen came in. That was his first win in his last seven appearances. So that's Jake Allen's first win since November 23rd.

And if you're a devil's team, that hasn't been very good since Christmas, like bottom five record in the league since December 25th, you know, Jake Allen hasn't been great. Like, that's not a, you're not feeling great. I just said great, like, five times. That's certainly not good. I think, you know, at some point in November, it's kind of funny that this is the discussion that we're having now

about Jacob Markson versus Jake Allen. Because there was a stretch earlier in the season where the question was, should Jake Allen get more starts over Jake, Markstrom. Yeah. Right? He,

he, for a stretch, was their better goaltender. Mm-hmm. Over the last little bit, even though the team

results haven't been there, and this isn't even men as like a full-throated endorsement of Jacob Markstrom, because he hasn't been, you know, a world beater or anything. He's been about average. Yeah.

It's the Markstrom transition year to a T. Yep. Allen's been rough. And you alluded to this a minute ago, Haley, like the fact that they're staring down the barrel at playing a goalie who's, you know, who's, who's, who's been substandard really for the last several weeks during a crucial point in their schedule. And I have a feeling

we're going to talk to Shane and more about this. Yeah. Um, they, they, they, they, they, they need to get it together and in the role in the backup goalie for however long it ends up being isn't, isn't a recipe for that. I don't know if it's quite time to hit the, you know, hit the siren on them. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not quite there. But also, So, you know, it's getting to be crunch time. And they need to find a way to dig out of this kind of mediocrity or slide to mediocrity that they've been in. Yeah. And we can talk about maybe what's been going wrong there with the devil's a bit more with Shana.

But I think one of the interesting elements of this too. And again, I don't want to go overboard because we don't know how long Markstrom's going to be out. Like we got the very vague. He's going to miss some time. which is just what Sheldon says when someone's hurt. I remember that from the Leafs. Like, he's going to miss some time. It's like, okay, like a week.

A day. We're talking LTIR. 27. Sheldon give me something here. But I did see this, but I was reminded of this on Twitter. If Jake Allen plays 40 games this season, there is a condition on the pick that could get triggered

based on from when the trade went down between Montreal all in New Jersey. If he plays 40 games, the HABs get a 20-25 second. So that's 25 more games to start the season for Jake Allen. So if he plays 40, that pick goes from a third to a second. So just something to keep an eye on.

I don't think that's going to be like devastating for the devils. But I certainly think when you sign Jacob Markstrom, you're not planning to have somebody else play 40 games because we know that Jacob Markstrom is. you know, a high rep guy. He likes to play a lot. He certainly did with Calgary. Yeah, the problem isn't hitting the pick condition.

The problem is playing Jake Allen for 40 games. That seems like that's what the concern is going to be. Yeah. So we'll keep an eye on that. And the devils are certainly interesting. They have it. They're fine in the metro like all things considered because the next best wildcard team is our personal favorite wildcard team.

the Columbus blue jackets, but they have a bit of a cushion here. They're at 60 points on the Metro and the next best wildcard is the blue jackets. We can talk about them next, Sean. I spoil it a bit, but I think we're all in on the blue jackets on the Thursday pod. Who is this we? We as the Thursday show. We agree on everything. We are one homogenous blob of talking about talking and Alex.

I think where I've changed on the blue jackets over the last week, let's say, two weeks, is like this isn't just- Wait, let me get to the news. Sure, okay, go ahead. Go ahead. I'll give you the news and then you can say, go ahead. It all ties in. Adam Fantilli gets a hat trick. I mean, I tease the news.

It's fine. People know. Adam Van Tilly got his first hat trick in Toronto last night. in front of 70 family members. He's a GTA guy in a win against the Leafs to boot. Big game for our Columbus Blue Jackets. Sean, what do you like about the Columbus Air Jackets? I officially want them to buy.

That's where I'm at to resume my points from 90 seconds ago. I think that's where I've changed on them over the last couple weeks. It's like at the start of January, they were just a cute. they were a cute story and it's like good for them yeah glad to see something positive happened for that team and for that community in columbus yeah yeah which is demeaning but also kind of you know deliberate yeah it just go chips to the table don what else go get brock nelson go get you know whatever marcus peterson if you feel the need for another for another top four defenseman make it happen because this team is good they're doing this without sean monahan who was

starting to pop up on um i know macken do had him maybe not on a heart short list but i was going to say mbp list where you go with this like sean was like should we start talking about him like as in in in the top 10 and it sounds crazy until you until you think about it a little more and then you then you then you that, you know, if you're talking about a longer list, it would have been fair to put Monahan on it, right? Yeah. He's in the, like, you wouldn't be crazy for discussing. It would not, it would not be crazy and it would not, or it would, would, certainly wouldn't

have been seven games ago or, or what have you. It wouldn't have been inappropriate. Seeing what we've seen from Fantilli over the last little bit is the main thing that's made me a believer. He's got positive game scores and eight to ten games since. the calendar flipped. He's got 11 points in those 10 games, which is tied for 20th in the league. He's 22nd in points per 60 in those games. So, like, he's doing it, he's got, you know, he's doing it efficiently, you know, he's, he's, he's racking off the points. The underlying

numbers are solid, um, positive X goal, positive goals for a percentage, which is no small feat given the goaltending they've gotten at times here. Um, this is the resumption of the season that he was having or that he had started to have as a rookie last season where a little bit of a slow start but then had this stretch in january where he was really flipping it not just as a point producer but as a as a transition player as a as a guy who is capable of you know starting the rush in the neutral zone and really making things happen that's where he shined you know for a legit stretch last season obviously gets hurt towards the end misses the last chunk of games and then gets off to a slow start in the fall so whatever it's it's been a legit stretch last season and obviously gets hurt

then there's been a little bit of a, there's been a little bit of a gap in his production, but man, what we've seen from him over the last three weeks with Monaghan out of the lineup, getting those minutes with, with Carol Marchenko and whoever else, he's like the X factor to me. If he can keep up 80% of what we've seen from him

over the last few weeks whenever Monaghan comes back and for the stretch run, they get more interesting by a factor of three for me. So that's what's pushed me over into like, go get somebody, add another forward. You got a gazillion dollars to spend under the cap. Money isn't an issue. You have a deep prospect base. You know, they were top 10 ahead of this.

They were, I believe, I believe fourth in Pranman's stuff ahead of the season. Yeah. We'll see where they lie on Wheeler's Rankin's coming up here. So, man, let's let's get it. Like they're they're right in the mosh pit for the, for the wild card, right? They're in the lead right now. Like, let's do it. Yeah, and the wildcard races, like, I'm trying to not do that podcast thing, basically that we did last year, which is talk about how interesting the Eastern wildcard races for several months. But like, it is.

Clearly, clearly not a listener of the Wednesday show. I said, I'm talking about the Thursday show. When I said that, I said that word. I said that word. I said that word. I said that word for word. I said that word for word yesterday. Did you? Every single week, if we wanted to, we. we could be like, boy, look how interesting the Eastern wild card race is. And we have to guard against that because no one wants to hear that three times a week. But it's true. It's like we're talking, we're gassing up the blue jackets as if the Ottawa senators, Montreal, Canadians and Bruins aren't one point behind them with games in hand. The Bruins don't have games in hand, but Ottawa and Montreal do.

The Rangers are three points back, flyers three points back. Penguins are there. like the wild card is really, really interesting. And like so is just the Eastern Conference in general. So, but the blue jackets are one of the top ones, Fantilli, as you mentioned. He has seven goals and 11 points in his last 10. The blue jackets as a result are not just because of him,

but in large part, there's seven, two, and one in their last 10. And again, that's been without Sean Monaghan. So really interesting team. And that's a team, I think a Blue Jackets fan. hated us in the off season because we were like selling my stock don't care not into it now's not the time i'm buying all of my stocks back it's um you know i i wish i was smarter with my my money in the summer we didn't mention we didn't mention boon jenner like they're they're getting another

good player back like and they're going to have tens of millions of dollars to spend at the deadline if they want to yeah let's get it go blue jackets I was going to make like a cannon sound. Then you realize you didn't, you didn't know how to pull that off. That's fine. We can just make it. Not loud enough. All right.

One more headline that I think we should go over here before we bring in Shana. Kriel Kaprizov could return for the Minnesota Wild tonight. That's Thursday night. Same with Jared Spurgeon. They practiced on Wednesday. John Hines said he's cautiously optimistic. that they'll be in the line. If they took line rushes,

they were full in practice. So that's big for the blue jackets. I just love Columbus. It's big for the wild, like for obvious reasons, Caprizav's stud leads the team and goals, assists points.

It's just going to be like a huge boon for the team. Yeah, there were 7-5 and 0 without him. So they, they treaded water, but, you know, you look under the hood.

Like, understandably, like, of course they're a worst team with it without their MVP candidate, right? Yeah. They're getting outscored at five on five. The expected goals aren't great to be expected. It deserve a pretty serious degree of credit for being able to keep their head above water. Marker Ross, he's been really good. I think that's got to be encouraging for wild fans.

You see him separated from Caprizov, and Dom and I touched on this briefly in power. rings last week. He's he's, I think that's a good sign for his development that you can detach him from Caprizo for a pretty legit amount of time and still see him a positively impact things. So yeah, things are going, things are going about as well as they could have expected. And now it's a, that's a big deal getting those guys back. Yeah. Um, yeah, 7-5 and O in their last 12 is their record without Caprizov. So that's, did you say that already? I did. You said that exact stat. Yep. Shoot.

Got anything else? What else? What else? What else? It's like a stand-up stand-up comedian, sweating, going through Cue cards. What else? What else? Sorry about that. I zoned out. I must admit, I was looking up if the sleepy time T-bear has a name.

I told you. It's Max Bowman. And then I stumbled across a Reddit post that someone said, I don't know it's just me, but the bear living alone in this cottage makes me very sad. That's seriously what you're looking up when I was talking about the Minnesota. Yeah, that's bad. I shouldn't admit that either. Terrible colleague, terrible host. Anyways, it's time for Shana Goldman.

See which shade is a T-box alter ego maybe. It would be like a cinnamon apple. Anyways, Shane is coming up next on the athletic hockey show. All right, welcome back to the athletic hockey show. Our friend, Shana Goldman, is here to take a look around the league. But first, this is the last I'm going to talk about tea. I just need to. I need to see if I was correct in my assessment for context.

Sean basically equated Max Boltman to the sleepy time teabair. And that's fair. Like he sits very still when we're doing the show. He doesn't talk much. So that's fair. It's not because he's sleepy, though. It's because he's paralyzed by anxiety. And Sean said, like, what would Shana's, like, tea be?

And I said, like, some kind of, like, cinnamon apple, spiced tea. Am I way off in my assessment, or is this, like, a weird thing that I can now say that I have? No, you're very, very spot on. like that, those flavors in a chai tea is like my number one choice. Great. Great. That's it for the tea corner. Congratulations to you both.

Yeah. Now we're going to move on to some Vancouver Canucks tea. What kind of tea is J.T. Miller? Is there no question? Oh, man. Highly caffeinated. What tea with tea is the opposite of sleepy time cheat? Yeah.

Which, which variety of J.T. Miller is a potential trade. partner are going to get. J.T. Miller's been a big story. The Canucks have been a big story all season. It looks like his days as a member of the Canucks could be numbered. SportsNs, Elliot Friedman did report last week that the Canucks were close to completing a trade for Miller over the weekend. They considered sitting him out for Saturday's game against the Oilers. That's how close things got. Shana, you and Harmon did a great story, just kind of going over the landscape of this J.T. Miller situation. Whereas his game at who could be the trade partners, I guess we should start. Like, what do you think that J.T. Miller right now brings to the lineup? Because, like,

we're joking about T. But, like, there are two different J.T. Miller's, it seems, right? There's the 200-foot, well-rounded guy that Rick Tockeet, like, loved, but was maybe hard on that times last season, but like had a great, great year. And then there's maybe what we're seeing this year. There's like this yo-yo effect sometimes with J.T. Miller of great elite season and then a dip in production. So what do you think a team's going to get in JT right now? Who's to say, right?

It kind of feels like, I think Harmon put it perfectly. Like he kind of goes with what the vibe of the team is. If the team is doing well, he's electric. And if the team is where it's at this year, like he is bringing them down. He's a part of that. So it's really tough to say because. Like throughout his career, inconsistencies kind of been the theme, right? Can he play center?

Can he play wing? That was the conversation in New York and then Tampa, the Vancouver, to the point where Vancouver, as well as he played last year, brought in a true 2C. So he didn't have to play center. He just elevated his game because I feel like that's the dickishness of J.T. Miller in a good way. Like, I just don't know how else to describe it, that I feel like when you put him in a situation where it's like, sorry, you can't play this position. it's that fuck you I'm playing this position.

Yeah, I've got this. And he literally had that and then didn't have it this year. The problem also is that a lot of his play, and Sean, we heard this how many times in player tiers, was everyone saying there's not enough substance behind the scoring because there's so much power play scoring and there's those high shooting percentages. In the second half of last season, there was a lot more sustainability to his game,

but he has not built on it this year. So it's really tricky to say. I think if you're a team that has great five-on-five systems and not a lot of, I don't want to call him fluff, but like flash maybe to their game, he makes sense. But then on the flip side, if it's like you're a team that you're probably not great a five-on-five, it might expose some of the weaknesses that are in his game. Because at times, you can go up against opponents best and shut them down. And at times, you're going to see laxidaisical defense and horrific plays that you're like,

where, why are these defensive breakdowns happening? I kind of figure, I was wondering if that was a harm line or, or you. I figured it was him because Harmon's, you know, he's covered him for years. He's got a sense of, you know, a better sense than any of us as to what kind of effect he has on and off the ice. But what he said that he amplifies kind of what's going on with your, with your team elsewhere, which that makes perfect sense. That makes sense as an on ice component ain't an off ice component because everyone knows people like that, right? where they can either raise or lower the temperature of a room depending on depending on how they're feeling. And I think that that's kind of, it's clear that that's what, that's what we're watching

an action right now for them. Yeah. I think what makes J.T. Miller really compelling to, though, is like, we're talking about this guy. It's like this tale of two J.T. Millers and you've got this like 200-foot well-rounded beast that we saw last year, 100 point campaign, 99 point guy from a few years ago. And then like the dips are as like a productive 70 to 80 point still versatile forward. Like we're not talking about this isn't like, I don't know why this is the only thing I'm thinking of right now. But like when the Sends traded for Matt Murray, that was like a which Matt Murray are we getting. Is it the Stanley Cup winner, the guy who like can't stop a beach ball the last two years? So like it's not the same.

This is still a highly productive player who could fit with a lot of teams. So, Shana, what do you think, who are your, like, top trade candidates for J.T. Miller? Like, did the Rangers seem like the top one? Is that just the easy choice? Because that's who I think Elliot said that they were looking at, right? Yeah. And the one thing I'll add to what you were saying about him, it's like, all of that's true. But I feel like if he was 25, 26, like a little young gun, it'd be one thing. It's like, you're going to be 30. to next month because I wanted to check that too like when is his birthday yeah it's a march he'll be 32 that's yeah I feel like I feel like he's been 28 for his entire career like I know he was in the Rangers he felt like yeah he just felt like he was older when he felt like old when older when he was a young guy now he feels a little bit younger as an

older guy and it's funny to me too because I did not realize this he's literally almost exactly two months younger than me uh two months older than me that I'm like oh I should know your age. Yeah. When you started thinking, wow, this guy's getting kind of old and realized that either, yeah, you're about to be like, oh, this guy's old.

Wait a second. They're younger than me. Hold on a second. Yeah, he's got a couple months of me and I'm going to hold those dearly. But tree destinations, I think the Rangers make sense in a couple of ways, but I also think that they're the easy choice, right? And I think a lot of it's going to come down to he has a no movement

clause. He has to want to go to a certain team. and the Rangers make sense for a million reasons. But the rumored trade earlier was Zabedadneged for Miller. And that would make a lot more sense because I think you're getting, you're moving to early 30 year olds who have some five on five issues, can play in all situations, can score a bunch of goals, but maybe don't always have that substance below the surface that you go,

okay, that makes sense for both teams in a way. But then if you're going to have the Rangers with a center depth of Trocheck, Zabandajad, and Miller, maybe Miller then plays the wing, but he's getting paid like a center. So that could be tough to withstand. And then you look at it and you go, is it too much of the same? Could that signs the manager's, you know, the end of his career, the Rangers career in the summer? Like, it's totally possible.

But I don't know if they're the perfect one or the easy one. I feel like I really like Carolina, New Jersey as trade partners better. I also think Boston needs help down the middle. And he makes a ton of sense if they could move a bad. contract, but Carolina, it feels like it would go against the green of what they normally do, which isn't a bad thing because I feel like they have so much substance and so many good players at five on five. They need someone that can just be like the foil to that and just be a good score.

And, you know, you don't need them to play as many matchup minutes with the canes because Jordan Stahl can do that in Ajo, so they make even more sense. Yeah. We picked trade destinations yesterday and then the canes were Frankie's. one that didn't come up, one that you didn't say, and this is pursuant to what we were discussing in the first segment, J.T. Miller-Columbus Blue Jacket. What do we think of that?

I don't. Why kill the vibes. I was more with like the Brock Nelson idea. Like, sure. Great. I'm a beige Rock Nelson fan, but I don't know. I think the thing is you don't know the temperature. I don't know the temperature.

I just like that way. I'll go. I'll go stay in the corner then. Fine. Fine. Don't the blue jackets are perfect. I don't want to hear anything about J.T. Miller going there. No offense. I also like when Sean Monaghan comes back in Van Haley, like you don't want to take away key minutes from the young guys. That is the true reason. That's true. If J.T. Miller's mean to Sean Monaghan, I don't know. Oh, I'll throw hands. Yeah. Leave him alone. I like the Kane's idea. I think I'm with Frankie. That's a fun one. That's a fun one. I said Dallas. I said Dallas. Just in the interest of being indifferent. A good point that Frank brought up, though, is yes, short term, it makes sense.

She's so crazy. In short term, it makes sense because Tyler Sagan, you know, is on LTIR and they have the money to go out and do something. But things get a little bit more complicated next year because you got Jamie Ben extension to worry about if that's something that they want to do. Like, it's a good short term fit, but maybe not the best long term fit. But that's like in line with that's J.T. Miller, isn't it? Like, I'll take J.T. Miller for four months when he's 302. I don't know if I care about what he's doing three years from now. It's probably not going to be anything great.

Yeah. Probably not. I mean, and he's probably a better, like if we're talking about J.T. Miller, the 2C. Like, that makes the Canes top six instantly better. Like, I'd rather have J.T. Miller than is Barry Cockney. Emmy is my second line center. Like, even, like, down-season J.T. Miller. and then you have, you know, the third line that can play your big checking, defensive minutes.

You have your top line with Aho that can score. And I think all of a sudden we're looking at the, I mean, I wasn't looking at the canes like they were bad by any means. But that's an interesting Carolina lineup. I'm kind of all in on that. The canes were also receiving votes in the concern meter. I don't think they made the top five or whatever it was. Where are we at on there?

Where are you at specifically on their game over the last couple weeks? Because it's been a problem. I know they've been a little bit better over the last few days, but it's been problematic overall. It's just not up to their usual standards, right? And like we look at it and go,

well, look how good the top three is in the Metro. Like, it's suddenly getting a little bit closer now that you're like, okay, well, maybe you need to be better than you've been. And like, because Washington, Carolina and New Jersey are all going through it in their own way. So like that helps the Keynes. But they're just not at the level. They should be a five on five. And I know they just got Frederick Anderson back.

And I know things are going to get better because they'll have a little bit more goaly depth instead of playing like Dustin Tarkarski on subnights. But I feel like we all have a very high expectation of Carolina. And we saw how good they were to start the year like, oh, wow, look. Their like plug and play works again. They just bring in new guys and the system overtakes it all. I'm not worried about them because it's like, okay, you have to get up for games in January knowing you're probably going to make the playoffs and that's when you really

have to give it your all but you want to see like a little bit more like niches he got off to that incredible start the underlying numbers were a little suspect and now it's like okay that's catching up to him a little bit and you see the holes in the lineup like i think they need one more just impact player like one really great impact player for their top six to bring them up a notch because like svetnikov is not consistently the guy and it's great to have scoring from your third line but i think they just need more like they need more on both ends of the ice right now now. Yeah.

I want to go. Oh, sorry, go ahead, Sean. No, I was, I was just going to, I agree with you on special Cobb. I think that's such a, that's such a variable for them. At some point, he's just, he's going to be, he's going to be who he is. Like, he's going to age out of, of the phase where we're like, yeah, this guy could end up being an eight, whatever, point per game player consistently.

Like, he's, he's just, he hasn't, hasn't been able to put it together for a protracted amount of time. He's running out of time. He's actually young, though. Let me just point out. I just double checked. He is 24. Actually 24, not like JT.

You can only be a breakout candidate for so many years in a row. Before you just, before you just are what you are. I'm not sure that we're there, that I'm there all the way with Svetchnikov yet, but. Clock's starting to tick a little bit louder. Yeah, that was almost two years ago. And most people say that you're not yourself until two years post off. I know. I know.

I've talked to. many people about ACL injuries. I, we just, we just need to, we just need to see a little bit more from him. And I'm, and I'm, and I'm less confident now than I was, you know, six months ago or a year and a half ago that he is, that, that, that he's that guy. So yeah, go out and get A. T.M. He should not be the guy.

Like, he should not be the number two, the number three. And it's like, okay, Aho is the guy in Carolina, as he should be the one C. But I'm like, I need one player to really separate, special cough in Aho. And I feel like then they'll slot appropriately. And it's like, could Nate just be that guy? And it's like, maybe. But even if he's not, which is like that is okay. I feel like too.

Sometimes it's like it's an insult. If you're saying this guy is not a franchise cornerstone, which is what you could say about some like Zegress for even Miller, right? Like you don't want him to be your best player. That's okay. Everybody has their appropriate roles. Mm-hmm. I want to go back to the J.T. Miller trade destination conversation very briefly.

just because like if we're thinking of the Rangers I know that I think it was Drans and Rick Dollywall who had reported there was potentially Yoie I think actually who'd said that there was potentially Zabandajad deal on the table. I feel like

if I'm the Vancouver Canucks and this is where I want to bring it back to a little more on like what they could be looking at. If I'm Vancouver I don't want I'd rather get like Philippeatel. I don't think Zabana Jed gets the job done if you're Patrick Elveen and Jeremy. I almost said Jeremy Rutherford. If you're Jim Rutherford's son, Mary Rutherford, yes. I don't know. What do you guys

think? I feel like I would rather get some younger pieces that can make the team, like that will help the team now. I don't think you're looking for a bunch of futures, but I also, I don't know if Sabana Jed get that done for me. No, that to me is, uh, they're, selling J.T. Miller low because they're forcing a trade now versus in the summer, which is the better time to do it. And it's bad contract for bad contract. But that was if they could have added Braden Schneider, which the Rangers drew a line out. The problem is like the other return that Drance was reporting on the other day was Ryan Langren, Philip Heedl plus. And he'll he's a great player, right? Like he's a player you watch and he's always doing something in his minutes, if that makes sense.

Like I feel like you watch with a lot of pace. He's really good and train. He doesn't always turn his scoring chances into goals, but I think he's gotten a lot better at it. And he's also a 3C versus a 2C. And I think the opportunity and quality of teammates would change things for him a little bit. Yeah. But the injury history. Like you can't look away from that one because if you look around the NHL, it's one of the worst. I feel like with Edel, it's if he's healthy, that qualifier always stands.

And that's true with Ryan Lingren, who is reported by Drans to be a part of it too. Lingren can be a very good first pair defenseman if he's, he's the, he's the number two on that pair and that's okay. You know, he has a throwbacky shut down game, but he's gotten better at keeping up with guys like Adam Fox and legitimately complimenting them. But you don't know if the injuries have dragged him down because he suffered a lot and it's the wear and tear of that kind of style, which is why those defensemen don't age as well, or is it Peter Lavillette system dragging him through the mud trying to play in all three zones,

which he is not built to do or is a combination of both. So if you're Vancouver, do you want, you don't have short things, right? and he's a pending UFA, so you get to at least sample it before committing long term. But, like, I don't know if either of them thread the needle as much because there's so many qualifiers for both players. Yeah. There's too many, like, asterix there. Like, you're making a trade on hoping that they're healthy and hoping they can do da, da, da, da, da, da. What's the state of Zabana Jed's game right now? Because the, the Rangers have been better. They've pulled out of it. You certainly watch them more than I do. Like, what is, is anything changed for him over the last? 10 games.

Different line mates. But he's finishing his chances a little bit more. And that's important because his best weapon is his right-handed shot. But he does not use it enough. And I think that's the biggest thing. It's like he's contributing in other areas versus playing to his best strengths. And I think that's what's holding him back. I think that's it on the Miller stuff.

Honestly, like I think that the Carolina Hurricanes make sense. Sean likes Dallas. Shana, who was your favorite? Who was your pick? Did you say Carolina too? I'm going to go Jersey as my favorite. pick for him. Okay. That's fun. Why? Why the devils? Then we can wrap up JT there. He's he could play center or wing there. I like the option of having the extra center for them because

he's here and he was like if there's any injuries and there's been a couple. Like you have that option, but you could also just play them to his strengths on the wing and let him cook. And I feel like, again, they have so many playdrivers that he doesn't have to be a play driver there. And also, I think they have more pieces they could part with that won't totally kill them. Yeah. Miller and he sure would be fun. I think I, I think I like that combo the most. Yeah.

I'm being swayed. Am I a J.T. Miller or the devil's guy now? I might be. You can't. You have to stick with Dallas. I set this up for a reason, even though that was convincing for me too. We can stick with the devil's here for a second,

Shane. Before we let you go, we talked in the first segment about Jacob Markstrom's injury. We don't know how long he's going to be out. Sheldon said he's going to miss some time. but also said they're going to wait to get the full extent of things, said he was in good spirits, et cetera,

but this is a team that hasn't been very good since Christmas, and now they're looking at potentially not having their number one goalie. How does that adjust the Concernometer for you with the New Jersey Devils? It definitely cranks it up to at least like, I'm going to say, seven, seven and a half. From five point five to seven and a half on the Concernometer,

that is a significant jump. Here's the thing. The Devils have been so mid since Christmas. Like they have three regulation wins, I think it is, or three wins altogether. And there are concerns on both ends of the ice. The offense completely dried up. The defense has been really bad. And the goaltending has saved them through this stretch.

Their team that's built that they don't need perfect goaltending, right? Like in theory, the Devils, the last couple of seasons should be a team that they're so possession heavy that it's totally fine and they don't need their goaltending to be perfect. But we also know the devils need goaltending. tending because for whatever reason, like, it's the thorn in their side for literally ever. So I'm a little bit more worried now with that in mind. And it's like, sure, they beat up on the Bruins, but who among us hasn't beat up on the Bruins this year? Like, it's everyone's favorite punching bag this season for a reason. So I'm not fully impressed yet. And I think, again, like that margin between the top metro teams is shrinking versus those wildcard teams, especially the way like the

blue jackets are playing, that I think they need to figure it out. I'm not higher than that. I'm not higher than that though because they have more options they're not trying right like they put mercer and mire together last night and i think it was the perfect solution to get both those guys going because they have complementary skills um but then you also look at it like they have nemich who's too good for the hl that could come up at any time and shake up their defense which they've been a little hesitant to do so like i think they have more options than they've taken so far but i think this is a team that while they shouldn't need goaltending to carry them has has needed it yeah and we do we say said that's in the first segment, but, you know, Alan's been the, he's looking not like a, he's looking

more like a backup and a little bit less like a time share guy or a one B. So I feel like that makes, you know, the Markstrom thing, even that much more important. Yeah. Um, who's your favorite? Like, who's your wild card team right now, Shana? Columbus. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. They're so much fun. It's like, it's a good story for a million reasons, but like you watch them play and they're legitimately fun. Like, Dean Eveson is doing work with that team. And I feel like we didn't know his identity with Minnesota because like that roster had to play a certain way. Yeah. They were a good rush based team, but the defensive structure. And now it's like, okay, here's a blanker canvas and he's like putting it together in a great way. Yeah. Yeah, we're all in

on the blue jackets. Um, okay, I'm going to put you on the spot for this one last question, Shana, because we're going to talk about this in the third segment because I was just in Quebec City. Once again, writing about PWHL expansion. If you had to pick, like if you're put on a commissioner hat, who are your two PWHL expansion cities? Shana Hefford. Yes, that's me. Okay, if you asked me originally, I probably would have said Pittsburgh and Detroit, but I kind of like the idea of expanding in both the U.S. and Canada for a minute.

And the Quebec game, the vibes were off the charts good. And they don't have an NHL team. So I think that there'd be a good appetite for more hockey there. So I'm going to go Detroit and Quebec for now. And then you can go. What? Am I picking low hanging for here? Like, do you want me to go like pick a random team?

Like, I think they should move to Colorado. Like, six. Colorado would be cool. But I'm thinking travel reasons. For sure. Leave Canada out of it, I say. I mean, your dollar might drag everyone down. But who's to say?

terrible. It's terrible. And like the league, my biggest thing is the league doesn't have like a national US TV deal. And I just wonder how Quebec City is going to help them with that. That's my biggest. That's my thing. I'm like, just stay. I love this right now. Like it's so good. When they went to Twitch for those couple games, I'm like, please stuff. Too old. I am certainly too old. It's like we're back doing this now. Really. It's like I can use Twitch and I love it. But there's no app on. most TVs and it's like I'm not watching from my laptop because my laptop is to clip games and me my secondary screen like I most people are going to be like what what do you mean Twitch like what is that how do I do that like even me I'm like I don't I've never gone on that website in my life or like niche podcasts I know like Twitch is I know I'm saying for myself that's like what I feel like that's what I suppose suburbs is going to be like no yeah don't know what that is I'm not

bothering with that. YouTube, I feel like for the early years, I know you're not making much off it, but I'm like, that is sick. Like, it's easy. It's accessible. If not, like, Amazon and ESPN are great options, but I think this is a good starting point. But yeah, you would think they're going to want to do something a little more. It kind of stinks not having YouTube in Canada. I'm not going to lie. Yesterday, I was doing some work and split screening the game. Like, I put the game on my laptop and then was working on my desktop and like I automatically reached to go to YouTube and was like, oh, shoot, I have to log into like my TSN Plus app right now actually. Yeah.

It's like there's an ease about it. That's, it's so nice. I mean, like, even last night, like I had the Toronto Boston game on my TV on YouTube. And then when it's like, okay, I'm going back to national hockey. I had to switch apps. And I can see like the ease of just having it all in one place. Like it's nice, right? Like just being able to be within the same app.

But then I still like YouTube. much and I'm like, no, it's, it's so easy. The archives are up available. It runs great. Like, I have no complaints. Yeah, it must be nice to be in America. You're the one way. It's nice. Back to buttstream.fart for me. Everybody's favorite illegal streaming site. Shane is like, what are you talking about? This is the illegal sports streaming site. Sean's imagined in his mind. Can't find the game. Streaming bill too high. Avoid the hassle with buttstream.

Dot Fart, the world's leading imaginary illegal streaming service. Try it for free. Forever. That's B-U-T-T-S-T-R-E-A-M dot F-A-R-T, butstream. Fartt, the whole world is watching. Listen, I hope it's better than all the other ones. Does it have a million ads when you click on it or is it smooth? Oh, yes. There's more ads and the typical site. It's a challenge. You've got to work to watch a game.

You want to sit on your ass and watch a game, click a bunch of things first. I'm about to do guerrilla advertising. for the actual illegal streaming sites that I use. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to say any actual names. Yeah. I'm kind of with, I'm, I was, I'm still like a Pittsburgh. I'm a big Pittsburgh Detroit person.

I also think if you want like to add another Midwest team, I think Chicago would be awesome. Selfishly, Chicago would be great. That arena is tough though. Like do you play where the, was it Rock, Rockford? Rockford Icehogs. Yeah, yeah. You play there.

That's not like super easy to get to if you live downtown. But I don't know, I'm kind of like a Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh combo. Yeah. I also, the travel would suck. But like, man, that Vancouver game, like, blue, like most games I've been to out of the water, other than the Scotia Bank Arena game. Like, that one almost convinced. me that it would be worth spending the money to fly commercial to Vancouver all the time.

I hope that's like a round two expansion. I love just watching it. I'm like that looked great. I love that. I feel like it would be such a perfect spot. And then you can figure out one further west option, whether you go like still like Colorado-y or if you go all the way and be like, yeah, Seattle right there. Like Seattle, Vancouver rivalry off the bat. Like sick. I even like Wisconsin. I'm like, go there. I'm so torn on that because like maybe like let's just let the badgers cook. Like let Caroline Harvey like sell out the coal center at the fill the bowl game on our own. I don't know.

That's my I'm torn on that or go to like Milwaukee be like the bigger state of the city or something. Yeah. If you have an HL team right there like why not? I'm torn. Well, thanks, Shana. We'll see. That was such like a terrible. end like okay bye

we're done talking now no we appreciate it we'll see what happens with expansion but I don't know I don't know who'd pick Sean what do you think Pittsburgh I don't know

Pittsburgh and Detroit okay thanks all right we're going to take a break we'll let Shane a go when we come back Sean and I'll talk a little bit more about some of that expansion talk in Quebec City could the PWHL be the big return pro hockey

I don't know. We'll talk about that next. All right, welcome back to the show. We just teased it a little bit with Shana, but we're going to do a little bit of a PWHL air fryer here. We had a PWHL air friar appetizer at the end with Shana. Like, we put in the hors d'oeuvres. But now it's time for the chicken fingers.

What? That's the meal. Chicken fingers? That's girl dinner. Yeah. An app and then some chicken fingers. The app was mozzarella sticks. I feel like there was something that's going to fill you up pretty well.

A large order of mozzarella sticks. Yeah. I'm gluten intolerant. How dare you? I've never found a good gluten-free mozzarella stick. Seems like it'll be tough. I got one in New York City and it was disgusting. So anyways.

PWHL expansion has obviously been top of mind. So that's going to be our big air fryer segment. here I say big. We're not going to spend too, too much time on it because we just talked about with Shana. I am firmly in the like pick too big U.S. market camp at this moment. I'm not going to lie, like not to spoil the Quebec City chat. I went to Quebec City. I was there for four days and really got to like go around, explore the city, like talk to a lot of local people. I had a story come out yesterday that kind of examined like this is a this is a place that lost its NHL team almost 30 years ago now it'll be 30 years in May since the Quebec Nordiques

became the Colorado avalanche and there's been so many attempts to get the team back including building a nearly 400 million dollar arena to attract the NHL back to Quebec City and it still hasn't happened. And Sean, I mean, you've written more about like NHL expansion and stuff. It really seems like the chances of the Nordiques returning. Those odds are getting close to non-existent if we want to be nicer, just more unrealistic because a lot of the reasons why they left still exist and these are now questions that the PWHL needs to think about, which is smaller market.

Um, it's not tiny, but when we are comparing Quebec City to other potential markets, like it's, it's small. Even when we're looking at the PWHL, it'd be the smallest of the six franchises in the league. Um, you know, the corporate sponsorship base was smaller in the NHL. Like, it just seems like the Nordiques aren't a realistic dream, which is maybe why people in Quebec City are looking at the PWHL now instead. Yeah, it's all the reasons, all the reasons that the Nordiques pulled out are still present. Like there's less than a million people in the city itself. The metro area isn't much bigger than that.

TV market, it doesn't, it doesn't do much in either direction, frankly. And the corporate base, even though there are insurance companies that are headquartered in, in Quebec City, that's a, that's a major problem. And there's a, there's a certain level of, a certain level of corporate involvement that you need to run a functional high-end NHL team. And that's what you see from the Atlanas of the world, in Eustons of the world. You have in Phoenix to some extent, huge population base, robust pool to draw from for corporate sponsors. And we're not just talking about selling suites.

We're talking about having, you know, the first national bank suites. level and the Captain Morgan, you know, like there's there's so many naming activations that are, that, that, that, that, that,

that, that, that, that, but you need to have people that are in 2025, but you need to have, uh, you need to have corporations that are willing to spend money on.

That's a huge, huge problem. And it's a problem for the NHL, obviously. And it seems like, you know, maybe on a slightly smaller scale, it's going to be a problem for the PWHL too,

because you're not judging, Quebec City against itself. Judging Quebec City against Chicago in Detroit, in Pittsburgh, in Washington, D.C., in cities that are that are just bigger and tick a lot more boxes,

unfortunately, for Quebec City than they do. I think that's my biggest problem because, look, the game, they sold out the tickets, like 18,259 tickets sold for a PWHL game with two teams that have like nothing to do with the city. In fact, like it's a rival team in town if we consider the Canadians nor Dix rivalry.

Like there was 18,000 people who a big chunk of them probably grew up hating Montreal and wearing actually there's a lot of people who wore Montreal Victoire or Poulin jerseys, but they flipped them. So Poulin was on the front and I just kind of assume that was a like, I need people to see that I'm here for Poulin who grew up 40 minutes outside of Quebec City in Boisville. So I actually thought that was funny. A lot of people flipped their jerseys to make it look like this is just a Poole-en shirt, not a Montreal one. But there's a lot of reasons why Quebec City is compelling for the PWHL, like that fan support the way that like people support hockey and want hockey back in that market. Like people support their sports teams in

Quebec City. The Quebec ramparts, they play at the Videotron Center and they have the best attendance in the entire Canadian hockey league, not just the QMJHL. So there's, like reasons to think that that would translate for the PWHL. They've got that building. It's available. There's like open and willing partners and essentially the group that operates or manages the building and owns the ramparts. And that is like a pro facility. I mean, it was built for the NHL. It's geographically close. But I think to your point, Sean, where I get held up on Quebec City is like, I think it proved itself as a worthy can. ended it, but like, is it better than Detroit?

People love hockey in Detroit, too. Yeah, right. And like, absolutely. And maybe Videotron Center is more available than Little Caesar's Arena, but that might be the only area that it, that Quebec City has Detroit beat. And there's like so much to the calculus here. Um, is that, is Quebec City better than Pittsburgh? Is it better than being in Illinois, uh, St. Louis? Like, I don't know. And this is, where and there's 25, like more than 20, around 25 proposals that the league is going to be going through from parties. And I think Quebec City showed me that it is worthy and viable and like an exciting option.

But is it better than all the other specifically big U.S. markets? Is it better than Vancouver? It's closer. It'll be cheaper. But that Vancouver game was way better. Yeah, if the league is going to prioritize securing, we said this, we touched on this with Shane. If they're going to prioritize securing a TV deal, especially in the United States, Quebec cities is eliminated, honestly. Like, it just doesn't, it doesn't help in that area.

So, you know, if we can, we know what their priorities are to some extent. We can infer what their priorities are to others. And, man, they're, they come up short when you consider the competition in a whole bunch of other areas. It's tough. And it's a shame for those people because the interest is clearly there and the love for the games, you know, there too.

But I don't think that's enough. Yeah. I think it'd be really exciting. I think it would be very cool. I think it would grow the game a lot too. There's like one high level girls hockey team in Quebec City. And I think I actually spoke to a player who plays there.

It's for the Cigip, Limulu Titans. Seagip is like the Quebec province. unique, like, education thing. It's like pre-university post-high school and you only go to high school for three years. It's kind of unique. But, like, that's the only high-level girls' hockey program. And I think adding a pro team would keep girls playing hockey in the city. So Quebec's, like, it pique my interest. I think it'd be exciting. I think it'd obviously be an awesome story for the PWHL to kind of be the ones that, like, bring pro hockey back to Quebec City. Like, that means something. But there's other takeover tour games in bigger markets that we'll have to kind of

examine too. So I'm not, unfortunately, I'm not 100% sold that this should be like the front runner. That sounds like a bummer. I know. It's a tough, it's a tough note to end on, but it's, but it's true, you know, and unfortunately. Yeah. We'll see how the Detroit game goes again. That's coming up. I don't think the Buffalo game is going to be. factor. I don't think Raleigh will be a factor. I think St. Louis and Detroit are the big ones to watch in the coming weeks and months on the takeover tour. I kind of wish they went back to Pittsburgh. Give the penguins a game not on a holiday weekend where the penguins are playing back to back at home and seeing how many fans show up. Because there's like 10,000 people there

on a Sunday afternoon before a thing is. We'll see. PWHL expansion. That's is our air friar. We don't need to get into how the Toronto Scepters are still bad. We'll kick that can down the road. Pro hockey team in Toronto. What are you going to do? All right. Thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the athletic hockey show. Sleepy Time, T-Bear, Max Boltman, and Corey Pran will be back on Friday with Scott Wheeler and Flow Hockey's. Chris Peters for the Prospect Series.

Sean and I will be back next Thursday. Thanks, everyone, for listening. Bye, Sean. Bye, bye, bye.