The Athletic Hockey Show - Can the Hurricanes capture the Stanley Cup?

Episode Date: June 12, 2026

The Carolina Hurricanes are one win away from their second Stanley Cup in franchise history after a 4-2 win over the Vegas Golden Knights in last night’s Game 5 in Raleigh. Today, the guys break down the historic play of Canes captain Jordan Staal, Brandon Bussi’s improbable return to the Carolina net, and what the VGK must do to force a Game 7 on Wednesday night. Plus, thoughts on where Oilers defenseman Darnell Nurse could play next season after requesting a trade out of Edmonton and Nikita Kucherov very narrowly edging out Connor McDavid for his second Hart Trophy as league MVP. Hosts: Max Bultman and Corey PronmanExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Corey Pranman for another episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. Corey, I don't know if you missed a memo or something. I know we're recording on Friday our usual day, but this is the, we move Prospect Series up this week, man. This is the non-prospect version of the Athletic Hockey Show. Well, despite what some people do think, I actually do follow the NHL as well. And I actually know it with the players in the league. I may not follow as closely as Laz and Haley and Sean do.

But I hope this is still a good show. People watch it and haven't already clicked off at the moment. We appreciate you filling in today. Good one last night in game five, four to win for the Carolina Hurricanes. They are on the brink of winning the Stanley Cup and a lot of key developments last night. I want to start with the top line for the Carolina Hurricanes. It's been a subject of a lot of discussion. Aho and Svetchnakov, quiet office.

offensive playoffs overall, not just the Stanley Cup final. And last night, they both score. Semenikov, two goals, Aho as a goal. It's the breakthrough that really we've been waiting for from that line. I think that's always kind of been the calling card of this team is, I think you look at this team, and they have like high-end players. Like obviously, Slavins are a high-end defenseman. Aho is a high-end forward.

But overall, this is not a team that is, you know, a superstar built. It's not like how the Oilers were built in previous Stanley Cup runs. It's always been their depth, I think, that they have three lines, that they can roll, four lines, you can argue, three D pairs. And for a lot part of, a long part of the playoffs, it was the Stancovin line that was driving the bus here. And, you know, if there's a stretch here where they don't produce at the same level, it's that if the Aho line can even get going a little bit, which I think there's plenty of talent in that group, that it, I mean, this is just why they were such a dominant, even strength team and why they are. they're in the Stanley Cup files, is they just have so many weapons, even if, you know,

sometimes it's been that, those lower lines, like the Jankowski and the carriers that have been chipping in, and now if they can get their top guys going here, too, it's, it's why they're 60 minutes away here from winning the Stanley Cup.

I like the move to put Jordan Martinuk on that top line with them, too. I think you had a guy who can go down, finish hits, dig out pox. Like, Seth Jarvis is a great player, but I think you actually spread yourself out better when you put Jarvis with Jordan's

Stahl and you have his offense feeding Jordan Stahl. We're obviously going to talk about him in a second. But I think Martin Nook, you know, maybe not your classic top line winger, but he can do the job. Yeah. It's interesting to see Jarvis kind of struggle a little bit after what I think, you know, he had a couple of just absolutely monster playoff runs. And I think that's what actually got him into those team Canada conversations. It wasn't as regular season.

It was his playoffs. But Martinuk, obviously, you know, a very physical, competitive player. and the results have spoken for themselves in terms of how that line played yesterday. Yeah. All right. So one of the reasons that that line has needed to step up is because the Jordan Stahl line has been taking the Eichl matchup and you figure, okay, if you can get that to cancel out, you need someone else to step up. But, man, let's go to Stahl and everything he's done because it's not just taking the hard matchup against Jack Eichael. He's got six goals in five Stanley Cup final games now.

As you said on the prospect series over the weekend, probably a guy who was underrated and, Selky voting this season, but it's all coming back around for him at the very most important time of the year. I think that's what's so impressive about him is just how high a level he's playing at the age he's at for how long he's been doing this for the fact he's already won the championships and for him to still have like that, that grind in his game to want to, you know, play, you know, to be at this level, this lane to the season. It's really impressive. Like, I mean, he's been to me the most impressive player in the playoffs and just the do everything element in his game for Carolina.

He's on their top power play unit. He's the matchup guy. He's great defensively. Obviously, scoring big goals. Just everything about this guy's game is just so impressive. And again, they're doing it at the age that he is doing yet, even though I think people Google him. They see the numbers aren't great. They think, oh, he's a nice third line center.

But I think like on another team where he would be getting a. I think, you know, bigger minutes. This would be, I think, a much higher scoring player in a different environment. Carolina is funny because they're the reputation is there, this analytics team, everything's spreadsheets or whatever, right? But you look at their players, and these are all guys that scouts would fawn over, Jordan Stahl, Jacob Slavin, Giondre Miller, the power winger, Anjay Svetnikov, Ah, who's maybe a little different look than what you would typically, you know, peg as your number one center, but he certainly gets the job.

done as a two-way, you know, 80-point guy who's got a great defensive conscience. There's a ton of overlap here in the eye test and the numbers and they just do it all. Yeah, other than the fact that Stancovin and guys like Blake and Jarvis are a little small. All three of those guys are really competitive, especially Stan Covent and Jarvis, Blake's competitive. You have, you know, like I said, I think there's just compete throughout their forward group. Their blue line is big and heavy. Yeah, it's absolutely how they build it. I think where they're going to argue is the way they've acquire these players might be a little different than other teams. But the type of players they acquire tends to have some overlap with how other teams tend to target those players too.

And Eelers too, I guess would be one more exception that I wasn't thinking of. But you know, but external acquisition, you know, reasonable contract value, you know, and, you know, a scoring winger that we always talk about on the prospect series, the kind of guy who you tend to be able to find to plug in the whole when you get those other core pieces already in place. And then the other guy, especially as you talk about, acquisition. Brandon Bussie, Corey. I mean, Brandon Bussie came into game three, trailing big time, gets that game to OT, they do not win, but he's helped them win both of them since. This guy is an unbelievable, he was an unbelievable story early in the year, and it looked like maybe that,

you know, it turned into the pumpkin, so to speak, and here it is back again in the Stanley Cup finally, he's doing it again. That's been the one thing Carolina's always been missing, and their runs that haven't gone deep enough has been goaltending, and goaltending could be the hardest thing to predict at times in the playoffs. It can be very variable. But, I mean, this has been what they needed. They got it from Freddie early on. Obviously, now it's hard to tell what happened, whether his performance or he's hurt or what's going on with him. But if they can get, I mean, this is the best even strength team in the league. Their deep, dominant team that can beat you in a variety of ways. If they just get okay, goal tending in this next game or two, you've got to think they're going to

win the cup. It's an interesting kind of consmite debate because I think coming into the series, there was some momentum for Freddie Anderson, Stank of him. It's really hard to argue with everything he's done, especially the timing of some of his goals, early in games, late in games. And then you got, you know, honestly, I don't think Bussie's played enough to give him the cons might. I don't think so. But the timing, I know that there's going to be some love for it. But stall, I mean, okay, so here's a great stat. So six goals in five games. The only other is to do it. John Belavow, he's the last one to do in 1956. The other two, Rocket, Richard in 51, and Cyclone Taylor from the Vancouver millionaires

in 1918. This is the company, Jordan Stahl is keeping here on the offensive side of the puck. Yeah, I think he's the favorite if they win. Like, I know Stan Kovin had a brilliant playoffs. And I thought coming out of the third round, he would be their front runner. But just given how good Stahl's been in the last round here, and throughout the playoffs, if they win the next game, I think he should get the conspithe. Yeah, Stankevin and Hall.

too coming into this series, but it's just been a little quieter, you know, in this one. And I think centers always get the preference. Yeah, for sure. And it's really hard to argue as Stahl. He's doing it in the most important games. Even though he wasn't maybe scoring earlier in the playoffs, you know with the matchups he's taking what an important role he's playing.

And he's not like piling on points. These have been close, competitive games, lead swings. And, you know, he's been, you know, brilliant in those games. Yeah. Let's go to the other side of things here for Vegas. because, yeah, they're on the brink of elimination here. It's also kind of the way they've lived all season. They have had to face a ton of comeback situations.

They've pretty much come back every single time. It's kind of Jesse's running joke on the show. It's like, yeah, they're down to they're going to win this game. And, you know, now they're at the brink of elimination. Carolina certainly has a lot of momentum going for him. But John Tortorella sounds confident. He says he's leaving his clothes at the hotel in Raleigh. And they're a really good team.

But, like, I mean, despite the fact, I think Caroline's a little deeper. you know, Vegas has better high-end players, and if Ikele and Marmer have a big game six, all of a sudden now, you know, it's very reasonable that we can have a game seven. The question I have for them is going to be more on the goalie front.

Obviously, everyone's seen that Carter Hart's had a bad series. I don't get the apprehension on torturality even, like, talk about making a goalie change. I know you don't want to say it out loud because it's like, you know, kind of a confidence kicker, kicker in the nads to heart,

if they actually did decide to go back to him. But, you know, Carter Art basically just got hot there for basically a month and a half. It's not like he had a great season. They were splitting starts there with a number of goalies in Vegas. His numbers weren't very good. He's never really been like this no doubt number one guy. So I don't know. I think you have to at least talk about making a switch here, especially with your season on the line.

And I don't know if Vegas, I don't know if Vegas can win this series unless they win the goalie battle right now. Jesse had a great article to that effect today, Corey, on whether Aden Hill could be their best chance here. My only hesitation on it is that he hasn't played since April 9th. And so if you were going to put him into a game for a third period and let him feel the ice, let him feel the puck a little bit, track it. I think that's one thing. And then maybe you go launch from there. That's basically what happened with Bussie. But two months to go into the net and start an elimination game, that does feel like even a higher degree of difficulty.

Yeah. It's just, I get it. It's not a clear-cut decision, but I think given the level of difficulty of the heart has been going through, the amount of hockey he's played. And the fact that I don't think, like, he's this all-world talent that you, like, he's not like Vasilevsky or Shisterkin or Sorokin, where you're like, you can't go away from this guy. Like, he's a nice goalie, but he's not like a premium athlete. I've ever been a premium goalie in the league. Like, I think you have to at least have that conversation, you know, really assess internally. his fitness level at, is he ready to do this?

Is he mentally in this, in the next game? Like, it would be a close call for me. Yeah. Well, it's, you know, Carolina just saw this, right? Like Anderson probably had not had this, the workload to justify going every other day with him. Now, Carolina's path here made that a little bit easier. They hadn't had any long series, but you get into this rhythm and you wonder,

okay, is he getting fatigued? Is it time to change things up? It's a very similar argument for Hart. Like, he didn't have the workload this year, and now can you just, can you switch it up and go to hill, has he just gotten fatigued? It's a really interesting dynamic in how we approach goaltending in the playoffs versus the regular season. Because in the regular season, we've gotten to this load management thing.

Teams realize that goal always can't play too many games before they get fatigued. They've got to be cognizant of, you know, of back-to-backs, three and fours, you know, keep trying to keep the split 65, 35, et cetera. And then we get to the playoffs and you just ride a guy, you know. But I think it's really. reasonable to wonder whether they should be, unless it really is that elite a goalie, that the drop off is going to be that significant from him to the next guy. I think it's worth having that conversation.

But yes, to that, you know, not playing two months is a long time. And there's risks on both sides of this decision. The other variable here for Vegas is that William Carlson sounds like he's not expected to play the rest of this series. He left the game early. Certainly looks like an arm-ish injury after the hit he took. It's a tough one. I mean, that line with Marner and Howden has been their best line since Carlson came back in these playoffs.

In this series, it's a 65% expected goal share for those three when they're on the ice together. Obviously, they are the top players in the series by that metric. This is a tough one for Vegas to overcome. In addition to the heart and soul elements that Carlson brings, that line has just been a defining line for them. Do you think he's been the best player that line? Or has Howden and Marner been probably more of the end? anchors of that line for you. Well, offensive, I mean, they're all good, well-rounded

players. Certainly the offense is coming from Marner and Howden, but it's similar to what we talked about with Martinuk earlier. If you have a guy you can do some of that dirty work, you know, Marner's certainly capable of playing a good defensive role, but I think Carlson's maybe more built physically for some of Carolina's players

for that, and it just takes load off and freeze him up to do Mitch Marner things, freeze Brett Houdin up to score all these big goals. I think you could... Do you think they move Houdon to the middle now? What's interesting is earlier in the playoffs, they were listing Marner as their center. And I kind of argued with Jesse about it at one point because I was putting together a list of the two Cs that were remaining. And I was like, I should list Houdon or Hurtle?

And he was like, well, but I think it's Houdon. You could kind of debate it. I think Hauden is probably how I would view it. However they write it on the statute, I guess is up to them. But yes, that's probably how I would do it. Yeah, I guess my point is more like, I think Carlson's an excellent hockey player. and it's a big loss. But just when I've watched the playoffs,

it's been those two that I think, even though they're the wingers, quote unquote, I think they've been the ones that, to me, have been driving that line more than Carlson, which is not usually how you usually view things. Usually the center driving the wingers, but I've found that those two guys have been the critical components. So while I think Carlson's a big loss,

I still think that line should be in good shape, but we'll see how they figure things out. Yeah, still a big piece, nonetheless, and we'll see how it would love. All right, let's take a quick break right there. We're going to come back. We're going to talk about some other news items in the NHL. All right, we are back, Corey.

And so we talked about the Stanley Cup final in segment one. The off-ice in the last week in the NHL has been just as entertaining as a very, very good Stanley Cup final. We've talked about the Larkin trade request already on the show. But now Darnell Nurse requesting a trade. Chris Johnson had that for the athletic sports, and that was the first to report it. This is a really interesting one. Obviously, Edmonton's a super interesting team for a lot of reasons with what they have coming up in the coming years here. the ticking clock on Connor McDavid and now one of their kind of anchoring players on the blue line,

Darnell Nurse, wanting out. The contract is four years left at $9.25 million. Where do you think that fits in the NHL landscape right now? On one hand, it is a big number declining production. On the other hand, he's still a good player. It's still a top 4D. And on this market, there's not that many good players available. Yeah, I think I know he's gotten beat up a lot.

And I understand why. When you sign a big contract, we are on a team that has a high profile that's made deep playoff runs, your performance is getting a micro-analysis, especially with that number on his cap hit. I still think he's a useful NHL player. Like I think on an average team, he's a second pair of defenseman. I think on a good team. He's like a four or five. Just on the world championships, he played a big role on Team Canada. Like this is still a useful player, big, mobile, highly physical.

The puck play, the hockey sense has never been super inspiring. And the offense has definitely dwindled as he's got. a little bit older. But he could still be a useful player. I think the debate is at 9.25, how useful can he be? So I think you're looking at situations for teams that can really absorb

a big cap hit. You're probably looking at young teams, teams with who haven't dolled out, you know, big money contracts to UFAs. And I think you're going to looking, now what's going to be interesting with Nurse is you have these two, you know, big free agents, quote unquote big,

you can have to debate how big they are. in Erasmus Anderson and Darren Radish coming to free agency. I think for the pro-scan departments, they're going to have to have serious debates about if we want to go out and get one of those two guys, where does nurse fit into this conversation? Nurse is a better defender than both of those guys, better skater, doesn't have the puck play of either of them. So different player types. But also, you're going to have to give Anderson or Radish probably six or seven years

as opposed to nurse at four years. I think that's the key, right? So if I look at the evolving hockey contract projections, which I think historically have always been pretty good. They've got Rasmus Anderson projected to get $9 million on a seven-year deal. Darren Radish, $8 million on a seven-year deal. If I can get Nurse at $9 million, $9.25 for four years, cut the term basically in half on both of those guys. I would strongly consider that. I mean, there's certain situations where you need a certain skill set, right?

If I was a team that desperately needed a power play guy, okay, then, you know, that's going to incline you a little bit more toward Radish. but I think, you know, especially if you're a team that's like, well, I don't want to extend myself that much and I can give up a, what do you think, a medium asset for darn-known there? So that four years starts to be kind of appealing. Radish does scare me a little bit. And I know he had a wonderful season and I think he's a good player. Like he's very smart, has the big point shot. But his skating is a problem, is defending. I think in the hard minutes is going to be a problem.

I do wonder a little bit, I think he's obviously, he's got skill, hockey sense. I do wonder how much he was, there's a product of that amazing Tampa Power Play, a product of playing five feet away from Nikita Kutra of every night on the power play. He'd scare me, especially since, you know, never been a big point score. Then at the ripe age of 29, he jumps from to a 70-point guy all of a sudden, when given the opportunity to run the power play with Victor Headman being out, you know, for a lengthy part of the season. Yeah.

And so if you're, you know, the most de needy team that we're always talking about, mainly on the prospect show is San Jose. But if you're the San Jose sharks, why wouldn't you have, you got money to burn. You can bring in Darnel Nurse for four years and have him be a veteran stabilizing force on your Blue Line as opposed to go in and spending the same money for longer term when, you know, certainly we think they're going to draft their future on the Blue Line at some point this year.

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And make more sense of spending money on Ferraro, too. I think Nurse is probably ahead of Ferraro if you have to, pick one of those two players. And I don't know if that's the future necessarily for Nurse, but I think just to I think there's a lot of frustration that there's nothing on their blue line currently.

I think it just would make a lot of sense for both parties, clears cap space for Edmonton, gives San Jose something to work with on the blue line because you presume whoever they draft this year probably is not playing in the NHL right away. It might take a year, maybe two years for becoming a really established impact player.

So yeah, I think San Jose makes a lot of sense. Philly makes some sense for nurse. And really just, you know, you think of young teams like Chicago comes to mind a little bit. They have room on the left side after Vlaschick, but I think they got some big money contracts coming up. Can they fit him in cap-wise? I don't know.

But you're definitely thinking of younger teams when it comes to nurse. Just not to hammer San Jose too hard, but it's like you bring him in, he can mentor Sam Dickinson. And if whoever that, you know, let's say they take Chase Reed. I'm not saying it's fate accompli, who knows what's going to happen at two. But then you have him there still, and whenever Chase Reid arrives or whoever that defenseman from this draft could be arrives, maybe he's still there for a year or two. And you've imported this guy who's been on winning teams, who's been to the Stanley Cup final. I just think it makes a lot of sense.

And they have the assets to do it. It wouldn't be super expensive. They could deal from depth in their system. Yeah, I agree. I think that's just looking at need and fits. It's the most logical. Obviously, we'll see what happens. the question now after that is what does

Edmonton do? Like yes, they have the cap space now. Okay, Anderson's available. Radish is available. Do they really make sense in a team that has Evan Bouchard already? Like, it's great to have the cap space now, but they'll need blue line help, but it's not quite clear where they're

going to get it from. But I think there's a bunch of different ways they can use the caps space. I think you could make just as good a case to try to use that cap space somewhere up front, and trading for a forward to make that a deeper forward core. When I look at the Edmonton Blue Line right now after Bouchard, I know Atcom's getting old.

You know, Walmart, you can have kind of questions either way. They're probably going to try to keep Connor Murphy. I think that's still a decent enough, like top four for your blue line. And I think if you can bolster your forward group with the money, I think that's maybe the smarter way to spend it.

Or you keep Philip Broberg. Well, that would have been the optimal moves. Unless you've got a time machine you're sitting on over there, that one might be out the window. Yeah, holy cow. Both Broberg and Holloway are, like the exact thing that Edmonton's missing, young speed and scoring and then, you know,

the shutdown defensive from those young legs Burruburg has, man. Yeah, that's a shame. All right. All right, let's take a quick break right there. We'll come back. We're going to talk about the Hart Trophy. All right, we are back. And Corey, I want to close today just talking about the Hart Trophy announced last night.

The winner is Nikita Kutrov. It was a stunningly close vote. 1436 to 1426. Nikita Kuturov edging out Connor McDavid here. My guy who I voted for, finished third, Nathan McKinnon. So I'm very interested to hear what you thought when you saw the results last night. I don't have a vote in this process, but if I had what I would have voted for McKinnon as well, my thought process is, you know, the raw numbers are close. And I thought Colorado was the most dominant team. I watched this season, not really a

hot take. You look at the numbers, even straight numbers, the wins. The goal totals, like they were a team that was a pretty dominant all around team in the regular season. I thought McKinn is their best player. You know, maybe you could have to date between him versus him versus McCar, but when I watched him, I thought it was McKinnon that just really stood out the most between the two of them. Such an elite skater, a play driving centerman, a guy who really stirs the drink there on the best team in the league. and I just, for what I saw this season, I thought he was the most dominant night in and night out player. I know when it comes to these awards,

it's not a perfect correlation, but people go to the point totals and they sort it, and they tend to be a tight correlation between how what the actual results be are as opposed to, you know, deeper thoughts that I think that you would put into this max. And so I'm not shocked by the results, but I think McKinnon was the best player in the league this year. He was the most valuable player in the league.

this season. And I think he didn't get snubbed because I think Kutrava and McDavid had wonderful seasons and they're great players. But I think the center versus the wing, particularly, like, I think what McKinnon provides to Colorado is more than what temper got from Kutraov this season. Yeah, I had a very similar argument with Laz late in the season as we were talking about this. And he was talking about, man, like, we never talk about Kutrov.

And I said it's because he's a wing and the responsibilities of a center are just that much more. But I agree with you. Like, the reason I voted for McKinnon is exactly what you said. every time I watched Colorado this year, it was like Nathan McKinnon is the most dominant force I've seen this season. And it's tough when you do these awards, especially the Hart Trophy, where the definition is player most valuable to his team. And I think everyone views what that is a little bit differently. I think in Kutrov's case, they kind of looked at the gap in scoring between him and his next highest teammate, right?

And McKinnon did fall short of him in that category. But I don't think Martin Natchez is a hundred point player without Nathan McKinnon. They're making a lot of that happen. I think I give McKinnon a lot of the credit for elevate. We saw what the elevation was when he came over from Carolina to Colorado. I give McKinnon credit for that. I don't knock McKinnon for that. I find it interesting how we parse the words on the trophy when it comes to the heart,

but the like the Calder, the most proficient in their first year of competition or the Selke, the Ford with the best offensive responsibility. We just kind of skim over that one. But with the heart, we kind of zone in on what most of the. valuable means. When at the end of the day, I think we all think who was the best player, who was the best rookie, who was the best defenseman, who was the best player. And by best, we don't mean best per game.

We mean who delivered the most wins above replacement, the most total value to a team. That's mostly how we tend to think about these things with some variation. But I think in that way, like, yeah, you could argue Celebrini had whatever, 60 more points or whatever than the next best player on San Jose. But McKinnon was the best player in the league this season. To me, not to the voters, obviously, but to me, he was the best player in the league. He deserved to win the heart trophy. I just think he fits both definitions.

I really do. And it's like a player most valuable to his team, I do try to be really faithful to that because that's what they're asking me to vote on, right? Same with the Calder, right? Like, I voted Michael Bunting ahead of Lucas Raymond a few years ago. I always look back and think, man, I'm going to look stupid on some, you know, if people look back at that 10 years from now. But that's in that year, who was the most proficient?

I thought, okay, bunting had an awesome year. It was close, right? And I try to be faithful to these definitions. I just thought McKinnon hit it from both. And it's what you said, right? It can't just be because a guy has a good team. I'm not going to vote him high. And I think McDavid has been the victim of that at times.

And I don't think it's fair to say that the reason this team is this good is because they have this guy. And that was the case for Colorado. Even that deep a team. Like I know they have a great team there. Like I said, the best team in the league. It's not like they were like Carolina's builder. Whereas like these four lines deep. Like to me, that team is like six, seven like wonderful.

hockey players and particularly two extremely wonderful hockey players. And I would argue the reason why they were such a good team is at least like 30% due to how good McKinnon is. I think at the trade deadline when they added Cadry and Waugh and there was already, I think a little, like McKinnon started so good. And his first half of the year was like undeniable for the heart. And I don't know if it's boredom. I don't know, like Kutrov's numbers after the Olympic break are truly video game numbers.

but I'm also not giving him like extra credit for just like you had the best 20 game span or 25 game span in the league, right? And like Tampa was a really good team. I voted Kutrov second on my ballot and I really wrestled with him or McDavid for second. I felt like, you know, similarly, I just didn't, wasn't that impressed by Edmonton this year, even though McDavid's numbers were great, it was like, well, if Edmonton's not that good, it's hard for me to, you know, bump it up that high. But I really wrestled with those two and I was willing to go, okay, Kutrov, the way he finished

the year is amazing. but I can't give him the whole award off of what he did after the Olympic break, just how I looked at it. Yeah, and Tampa was an amazing team. He had an amazing season. I think he's absolutely worthy of the conversation. But I think if it wasn't close, like if he had 15, if he had like 20 more points or whatever, then McKinnon, you'd be like, okay, like, the offense was really that much better. But it wasn't. And McKinnon led the league in goals.

And like, whatever, people voted how they voted, it's fine. I'm used to the awards getting it wrong. it's not that surprising kind of thing. But we're just in an echo chamber right now kind of thing. No, I get it. There's people listening who are like, these two guys who disagree with each other are just hammering it. It's not like we don't like Kutra.

Like I said, I voted him second. He had an awesome year. But I think Nathan, and Nathan, it's not the first time, by the way. I think McKinnon's been snubbed on one of these, man. I don't know what it is if there's some hesitance for people to take it all the way. But I think he could have three of these by now right now. I think, like you said, I think there is some part of it that is like the, what someone's on a super team, just like when like Cooper got ripped for winning the Jack Adams kind of thing.

I think people like look for the bigger gaps in terms of like that from, you know, what the Jack Adams is playing above expectations with the heart. It's the level of play above the rest of his teammates, etc. But I mean, we've already been over those points already. That's an interesting point that you raised though. Kuturov wins the heart. Vasilevsky wins the Vezza. the Cooper wins the Jack Adams this year.

Tampa Bay first round exit. And I wonder, like, you know, where is this team in their window? There's a few teams like this, a few really good teams. You and I were texting about Dallas yesterday and, like, how much longer is their window going to be open? Some of the class of the league right now, they still got great prime age players, but the clock's ticking. Well, I told you the other day, I think Tampa's a prime can to trade for Larkin and just

throw geeky, throw Sam O'Reilly in there, burn it all to the ground prospect-wise, give yourself an extra couple of years. because if they don't do that, you know, they're going to lose radish. Maybe, maybe they want to pay him the $8 million, whatever. But, you know, Headman's really at the end here. Like, even if he comes back next year, like when he was playing even, he wasn't very good.

Like, it's, and these guys are getting, the rest of the Corps is getting up there. And they're still a really good court. Like, Hegel's still playing very well. Schrelli's still playing very well. Kuturov still playing very well. They still got, and Vasselowski's been, had a great year.

Yeah. They still have a window here, but it's dwindling, especially on that blue line is going to become a concern. And you look at that roster and how many guys are, who are they playing, who are replacement level players, fringe AHL level players, and it's starting to get up there. So I think they're going to need, if they don't trade for Larkin, they're going to need Geeky and Sam O'Reilly, I think on that team contributing next year. Otherwise, things are going to start getting a little hairy. Well, that's the point I was going to make, is it's almost the opposite of my Edmonton point. right is like you you have geeky and sam o're Riley and with the upper level forwards you have already in Tampa you could play those two in the roles that they think they need to be played to start their

career third line kind of minutes maybe even fourth line because you have yanni gordon you have some other veterans on your third line that can eat minutes it's the blue line because like you said headman was really banged up this year he's getting toward you know the very end of his prime if we're even saying prime still and if radish rocks i think you could probably have an easier time bulking up your d and improving that way than I think you do up front. Like Larkin definitely moves the needle for anybody. But when I look at what Tampa has, like, Point in Sorrell, you're still a pretty

gold standard one-two center combo, at least in my eyes. Yeah, you almost wonder if one of them has moved to the wing if you brought in a Larkin. I just meant like Larkin in the way of like, it doesn't have to be Larkin. It could be someone else. It just means that this window is closing. They very much have adopted,

you know, Breezeball has definitely much adopted the less need model of, you know, F them picks. And it wouldn't surprise me if they just moved their best prospects just to give themselves four more years of going for it. And that's how they've operated. And I can understand it. I wonder, too, especially in some of these Sunbelt markets. And, you know, all the emphasis is on them because, you know, they have the favorable taxes, the favorable weather, they've been winning. So players all want to go there. I also think those are some of the franchises that have the most incentive to be relevant. Like in those markets where

hockey is not, you know, baked into everybody's blood from birth in the way that it is. And in Canada and the way that is in some of the northeast states, you know, Minnesota, even I would say Detroit, like you have to be really good, I think, to keep filling those buildings. So what's interesting is that I'm going to take us to junior hockey because I watch a lot of junior hockey is the opposite actually applies to those smaller cities.

Is in those small cities, like not the London's, the kitchensers, the Halifaxes, etc., the ones that are always going to get the fans in the building. Those markets have a real hesitance to go all, all in, because it looks good for one year, but then when you're like really awful for four, five, six, seven years in a row, you start talking about like relocation

with how bad it can get over there. So I think that is a little bit, I think in Tampa it's a little different because they've won so many championships already. You know, this is, they're starting, you know, the Everblades that in that area are getting are really big.

Like that's a little different, I think, than I know like when the coyotes were in town, that was like tearing it to the ground ground and being like absolutely awful for five years was something that they got a lot of pushback on for for those kinds of reasons. Tampa's not going to be absolutely awful, I don't think, in any scenario here. I guess, you know, in six years or whatever, if they haven't found any more prospects by then. But I do trust that they will. Yeah, I think, but, you know, I think I'm wondering like Colorado, when I say they have no draft picks.

Like at some point, if it gets really bad there, you wonder when is that window up a little bit? They have no, I think they don't have, I think they have like one top two round pick for like the next like three years, so like that. I don't think this window's closing any time. Sue and McKinnon and McCar still, you know, a ripe age. But you got, you got, you know, at some point the window closes for everybody. Yeah. Well, window wide open still for the Carolina Hurricanes and Vegas Golden Knights this year. Game six for that one will be on Sunday.

We'll talk to you soon.