The Athletic Hockey Show - Can the Jets regular season success transfer to the playoffs?

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

Sean, Frank and Sean discuss the record making Winnipeg Jets start to the season, they continue to debate the Penguins direction and Sidney Crosby's future, the slow starts for two key Oilers off-season acquisitions, and the New Jersey Devils transformation to a top team in the NHL.Hosts: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeWith: Frankie CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What up, what up? This is the athletic hockey show Wednesday edition. Macandu, Corrado, Gentile here. Boys, are we going to start calling each other by fake nicknames? I think that's what we should do based on the Martan Broder, Satan's Wall Paper thing. Frankie Grotto, he's the Bishop of Sudbury. That's what everybody calls him.

I have never heard that in my life. Yeah, exactly. We're just making shit up. You're allowed to do that now and put it on Jeff. making it up. There's there. There was a bleacher report slideshow from 2009 that made a reference to it. Look, I acknowledge that that's a fake nickname that nobody had ever heard of and I greatly enjoyed watching Devils fans be confused by it. But let's not lose sight of the fact. That's a fantastic nickname. That is a better nickname than 99% of what's been out there. Like that it should be,

it should have been a nickname. It seems a bit extreme, doesn't it? Like, it just, It seems a bit extreme, but, and it doesn't exactly roll off the tongue either. Like, that's one of those ones. This is old school. That's a nickname. Udemey cucumber level. Does Jacob Marksum need a nickname? I don't know.

I mean, his nickname is Marky. Yeah, so he doesn't have a nickname is what you're saying. That's not a normal hockey guy nickname, Marky. Did you ever have a real nickname, Frank, or were you just Frank? I was like Frankie or, you know, every once in a while I'd get like, because I wore 22, deuses. So that's why I made my Instagram handle that. But yeah, there was nothing, nothing revving. Yeah. There's, there was probably some guys like, I was at some places for such short periods of time that if you ask someone if they played with me, they'd be like, no, I don't think so.

That's actually what it says on your hockey reference page. Like, where this guy's, question mark is no i don't think so yeah you i think i may like i probably play with a guy or played for a coach and then see them down the road i'm like hey great to see it oh by the way my name is this like um yeah i know i i played for you um but that's a 20 i guess if you're if you're maybe there's a certain line in the lineup where if you're below that you don't actually want to have a nickname i can't think of too many like third liner you know bottom pair guys who had nicknames that were good. Like, Red Light Rassico is the meanest nickname.

Everyone, and that's a backup goalie. So I don't, the only exception of that is the enforcers. Those guys make great nicknames. Yeah, what was the, there was the Nigerian nightmare. You ever hear of that guy? The Grim Reaper, missing link. John Nasty Morasty in the H.L. Actually, just played in a, I just played an NHL alumni game here in Toronto and Zenon

Konopka. was out there who was nails when he played, but he was telling us, he was nasty. He played on a team in Syracuse, and Syracuse in the H.L. is just like a nails, hardcore building in that league,

where, like, if you're a visitor, the fans are on top of you, shower water pressure, not good after the game. And they had Kanopka, Sistido, Dorset, Morasty, and I think I'm missing like another guy,

but they could throw five heavyweight on the ice at the same time. And, like, there were probably some smaller guys playing the league at the time that would have said, check, please. I don't, I don't need to touch the puck tonight. No, thanks. Which Cistito did they have? Tom, not Tim.

Although, I'm sure Tim could chuck them, too. Yeah, you got to figure there's some genetics to play there, right? Yeah. If we're going to get into those nicknames right away, let's just do it. But, like, we got to talk about the pens, don't we? We don't have to. No, I got some nicknames in Pittsburgh probably right now. Yeah, they're adding new nicknames.

Sydney trade bait Crosby. I just want to say that when I turned on the Stars game in the first period, I thought the scorebug was having an issue because it was 5-0. And I was like, oh, that's where they're having a scorebug issue tonight. And then Marchmont goes down, threads it to Segan. And I see the scorebug go to 6. And I'm, oh, the scorebug is actually working. Like that is a six nothing game.

And we're going to get into it, but I have formulated my take. I've been sitting on it and I'm ready to release my take on the penguins. And here it is. Yeah, let's let's hear it, man. Come on. Everyone knows where the penguins need to go to. They need to bottom out. They've traded picks.

They've traded prospects. They've won Stanley Cups. And they wouldn't trade it for the world because they had three parades in eight years or whatever. everyone knows they need to bottom out and they're going to bottom out, but the only reason why we talk about it is because we don't want it to happen at the expense of Sydney Crosby's final seasons in the NHL. No one could, no one would care if it was just Malkin or Malkin and Latang or Carlson or Kyle Dubus,

the new GM. No one would care if the penguins bottomed out with all those guys, but because it's Sidney Crosby, that's why we pay attention to this. And at some point, they're going to get to where they need to go, which is the bottom of the standings, and they're going to get a high draft pick, whether it's first overall or not, whatever,

they're going to get there. But the only reason why we talk about this is because it's at the expense of Sidney Crosby and his final years, aka Cid the kid, the nickname. If only there was some way that we could get Sidney Crosby onto a team that could contend for a Stanley Cup.

I'm so tired. so tired of this. Sean, is there any chance? No. Because Frankie's right. Like this is, um,

it's, it's, look, I'm with you. They're not going to trade Sidney Crosby. The penguins fans, you wouldn't want to see it, the,

etc. etc. But unless he, unless he wants out, unless he wants out, I got to say, and they trade them. For hockey in general,

a Sydney Crosby trade market would be fantastic. What about like, What about like a Chris? Can I interest you in a Chris Latang trademark? No, you cannot. I think, I think. I think the Lars Eller trade market maybe do that.

Yeah, the robust Lars Eller trade market. We saw it. I had a whole list of Lars Eller trade destinations ready to go for today's show. I spent all weekend on it. What are we going to talk about in February now that the Lars Zeller sweepstakes is concluded on November, on November 13th? He's going back to Washington for a third and a fifth. I do like that deal for Washington, too, by the way. I like just, they should be like, go get the large elders of the world already.

Like, they're good. Like, they are good. This is right. It's right there for them. We talked about this two weeks ago. So I don't know, we don't have to get too into it. But Washington is a good team. And it's not just a flash in the pan for them.

And the penguins, like, there's no quick fix. There's no easy fix here. Because even if, let's say theoretically, they bottomed out and they got Hagan's first overall. Doesn't like, Connor Bedard didn't turn. around the Blackhawks in one year. Like, that's a work in progress. And Chicago's going through the cycle.

Pittsburgh is going to have to go through the cycle. It's just how does Sid fit into all this? And the thing is, like, if, okay, if you wanted to ask for a trade, if you wanted to go play for a winner, in a way, that is a great player with a great mindset, basically admitting we are not good enough. Do you know how many times Sidney Crosby would have uttered those words in his head or out loud over the course of his career, less than one. Yeah.

That is a guy that has never thought or thought to say those things. Like, we're not good enough. You just don't think that way when you're one of the great ones. So that would be, that, like, that would be different in itself that he would be saying, as a team, we're not good enough. And I don't know. I'm not doing. I'm not doing enough.

I'm not doing enough. I, I, he's still a good player, right? But it's just there's a lot. There's a lot going wrong around him. I don't think that's true. I don't think Sidney Crosby needs to do more or anything, but I think that would be part of the mindset with him, and it's just hard to imagine that.

Is there any part of a player's mentality, if you're Sidney Crosby, and you've been with that franchise for 20 years where you're thinking, I can do the right thing by this team, if I put my hand up and say, okay, you know what, somebody's throwing the moon at you,

take the trade, and that's my parting gift, Pittsburgh is the future. I help them reload. Or are you just sitting there going, the second that trade goes through, I'm not a Pittsburgh penguin anymore, at least temporarily. So I don't care about the future. I'm,

if I'm not part of it, it's not my concern. Did that happen to a superstar player in Toronto once, DGV? Yeah, I feel like it, I feel like it was offered to a superstar player in Toronto once and turned down. Is this a Sundin discussion? is that like I was younger

so like my memory of it guys can I just say we did it we just took a Sydney Crosby trade and turned it into how does this affect? I hate all right hold on hold on time on time on I'm so good at this

I hate I hate both ends of that discussion I hate that we're having this we're having the trade Sydney Crosby discussion which is stupid and and wrong

and feels feels feels a feels totally um in a in a way inappropriate and we spun it to how does this affect the Leafs amazing how did it

you guys are you guys are you guys did it affect the Leafs and how it affected the Leafs was that the Superstar was not traded and it probably set a rebuild back five years and uh led to uh one of the worst eras in the history of the franchise so yeah and and the guy who refused to go anywhere because he was a Maple Leaf for life uh then signed

with a different team, which was a nice little exclamation point. But going back to the Penguins, can I just say in advance? Because we've said it a couple times, I think was Frankie saying, you know, if they get the first overall pick, I'll tell you right now, people listening to this are screaming at their device. They're going, they are going to get the number one pick because Gary Bettman's going to make sure. I just got to say, just in advance, Penguins fans, our hearts break for you. 40 straight years of having a top 10 all-time player on your team.

And you guys might end up getting a first overall pick who's merely an all-star and not a first ballot Hall of Fame. He might be a second ballot Hall of Famer. Guys, it's going to be terrible that you guys are going to have to get down in the, in the dredges like that. And I just want to say on behalf of everyone else, our hearts break. Our hearts break for you. If you need a hug, we're here.

I'll pass that along to like my uncles and in my family members who are just still still stealing over this. Yeah, I think they could trade anybody. I think I think they could and would trade basically anybody on that on that roster at this point, except for. Crosby being traded. John Ging. Most credit, Sean J.

Yeah, right. Crosby has to do so much there with so little. And like I want to take that to another team where. Connor McDavid last night has four points, and now he's one point away from a thousand. And he honestly could have had five points last night. And if you take a look at that roster and you go down and see the points, the point totals of some of the guys that were supposed to be depth guys

who were giving that team more, they're getting nothing. They're getting next to nothing from a lot of these guys that were supposed to contribute. And for me, the Oilers are right where they've always been, a top heavy team that is going to go as far as. as McDavid, dry-siddle, Hyman, Bouchard are going to take them. And like even Ryan Nugent Hopkins has had a slow start to the season. And this was the year where it was supposed to be, let's have the depth.

We brought Henrique back. We're bringing in Arvidsen, Jeff Skinner. Like we got, you know, we got some guys lower in the lineup. Matias Yanmark had a great playoff. So he was going to help us. And it's like they're literally the same team they've always been, relying on the big three or four guys to carry them and McDavid has to have seven points in two games in order for them to win some games. And I just, it's, it's a, it's, the mix isn't there for Oilers, the Oilers.

It's not there. Who from that secondary group do we think has enough in the tank, let's say, to help? I guess another way to look at this is like, who is the biggest disappointment? Because I look at Arvinson and in what he's brought at five on five. I'm just like, this is, even on the power play. Like, this guy, he's scored. he's scored at a 30 goal pace for the last however many years and they're getting they're getting nothing from him so I'm like I'm like is that is that is he just he's on a true contender now is that just is that enough to put him in a different space what is what is going on there I'm amazed it hasn't worked with him because I mean I I would say the same with Jeff Skinner where a guy that

comes in signs the one year deal right we all know the history they're never even played in the playoffs. And I remember even before he signed, it just felt like such a, such a perfect fit. Come in, play one year on McDavid's line. I mean, you've been a 70 or 80 point guy with, with a lot less. Come in, have the 80 or 90 point season, score 40 goals again, play in the playoffs, maybe win a Stanley Cup, and then go into free agency. You've completely hit a reset on your career and your legacy and go get another big contract. Six points. in 16 games. He's closer to being out of the lineup.

He's closer to being out of the lineup than he is to doing anything that you just said. And he might be overpaid right now. And he signed the deal that we all agreed was the best discount. I mean, the biggest no brain sure thing of the off season. He played under nine minutes last night. He played under nine minutes last night. And he got roasted on one of the goals. I can't remember which one it was, but he goes running out.

he gets walked. I think it was the first Anders legal. It was running out, gets walked, and it's like, they just need you to be decent defensively. Like, they just need you to be decent defensively, and then they need you to find some of that offense.

Like, okay, it's not going to be 80 points, but it could be 60. And that's, that's what, well within his wheelhouse, considering how skilled he is as a player, but like,

that's one of the guys they're getting nothing from. It's, I don't know. They, they took some swings on these guys. guys and some other guys moved on like the Fogles and the hallways of the world. And they would have been getting more out of those guys than the guys that they kept or

the guys that they went out and signed. I think that's one of those things to signing guys, the one-year deals and putting them with, you know, elite players and helping they rehab their, you know, rehab their value. And then go else, win a cup, go elsewhere. You get the other big deal somewhere. That's one of those things that works in theory, but not necessarily practice. I think that's something that we've seen from maybe not players in the level of accomplishment of Jeff Skinner necessarily. But we've seen it in one form or another.

We see it a lot with a lot with Pittsburgh where they would go bargain hunting and try to find vets who seem like they could plug and play with 87 or 71. And it like never, it like never quite worked. And now it's like we're on this next generation with McDavid and dry sidel. And we're saying the same stuff. and the results are also similarly kind of underwhelming. So I don't know if I'm trying to think offhand, like even going back DGB to like, you know,

late 80s, early 90s where this was a thing that happened that worked where the, where the high profile free agent signs, you know, the show me one year deal and then, and then actually parlays it into, into good things on both sides.

And I don't think it happens all that off. I'd have to think back and see if I can, like, I mean, back in the days, you didn't really have those one-year deals as much because the salaries were a lot more condensed and it wasn't as big the gaps that we see. So cap, I guess. You're right. Like to be a cap function. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. But I mean, the classic example probably of it not working was when Salani and Korea both went to Colorado on one-year deals. And we all went, oh, well, I mean, just. hand the Stanley Cup to the avalanche and and it just didn't work at all. They both had the worst years of their career. But it's interesting because you talk about it not working in Pittsburgh and that was always the thing with Crosby. I almost said the knock on Crosby.

It wasn't even that. It was that he was so good in such a unique way that he was hard to play with. And you got like, you know, that that's where the Mark Donk thing came from is that they would just end up with guys playing with those guys that it didn't work. And to the extent that Chris Kunitz ends up getting picked for Olympic teams because he was like the one guy who could unlock it and knew how to play with Sid. The Crosby Whisperer. Yeah. Always play with Sid and you knew that it worked.

It's funny you mentioned like the going out and signing these guys on one year deals that are veteran guys. Because take a look at the last couple Stanley Cup winners. Okay, Florida built their team largely through trades, right? Like they drafted, you know, your cornerstone piece like Barkoff and Eckblad. but a lot of guys brought in on trades. Reinhardt, Bennett, Cichuk, list goes on. Vegas Golden Knights. A lot of that team is built on trades,

like the Eichl one being the big one and just always willing to make a swing. But prior to that, like there's two mini dynasties, the Pittsburgh Penguins and the Tampa Bay Lightning. And those teams got it done with plug and play guys that were homegrown that came up through their system. In Pittsburgh,

there was that crop of like Sherry, Gensel, Dumolin, Rowney, Rust, if I'm missing one. But like those guys came up and they were the plug and play guys. And then in Tampa Bay, it was the guys like Ross Colton or Yanni Gord or Eric Chernak. And like those guys became the plug and play guys. And then so now you see teams look at it. Okay, do we have the ponies internally to do it? And if not, let's try and bring in some of these veteran guys via trade. The thing is, the veteran guys are not what Reinhart, Kachuk, and Bennett are, not what Jack

Eichael was. Like those are players that you got in their primes, whether it was a big swing or you got a discount on a deal like the Bennett one because it wasn't going well for him in Calgary. Those guys were not on the back nine of their careers when you got them. Like, those are great trades in hindsight. and it kind of maybe it's like if you're going to bring in a bunch of these guys that are 30 plus, it's not going to work. Like you have to bring in the guys that are, you know, trending up in that 25 to 27 year old range.

And that brings us back to the Pittsburgh Penguins and why whatever rebuild thing they're going to try here, because it certainly seems like they're in that mode. It's the biggest reason that it's doomed to fail because there's no lane for them to pick. They don't have the build by trade route. They're not going to go out and acquire some version of Matthew Kachuk or whoever because the pieces they're trying to move are Marcus Patterson and Ricard Raquel. And these dudes who in one way, who in some regards have negative value, if you look at some of the worst contracts out of the group.

So that's out of the question. adding legit players who are ready to compete on the level of a playoff team for the next two years via trade is not going to happen. And the flip side of it is if you look at how they did things before, you know, with the Connor Sherry's and Jake Gensel's of the world, the third, the second round and third round picks who hit and then turn into plug and play guys, they also don't have any of those outside of the very tippy top of the system. Right.

So if you're trying to find a lane where this like rebuild on the fly, you know, let's suck for a year or two and then be relevant by the time SIDS in the back half of the contract, I don't see how I don't see how it happens because they don't have plug and play guys in house. And it's almost impossible to imagine them scoring legit value on the trademark with these pieces. So what do you do? You look at it and you're like, okay, maybe they could just clear space and try to sign free agents as if that's not what every doom team. over the last 21 years of a salary cap hockey is as done. Never works. Anyways, that was our Penguins trade segment for the week. I think we're going to do two of those a month until they actually.

Something's got to give. Something's got to give. But why do we like, we got to get into the jets at some point. Let's do that. They deserve their time right now. 100%. Let's hit a break. And we'll start next.

segment with them. We'll be right back. The Winnipeg Jets fellas, they've done it again. When last night beat the Rangers 6-3, they've won 14 of their first 15. So this is the best 15 game start in NHL history.

Just like it was the best 14 game start in NHL history. That's verging on fake stat territory, but we'll give it to them because 14-1 is 14-1 is sick. Yeah. Here's my my big takeaway from the Jets right now is that they can win games this year that they couldn't win last year and they're doing it more consistently.

Like they could win the odd shootout, but really it didn't happen for them. Like it was tight checking. If we score three goals, you know, that's pretty much what we can get and we're going to have to keep you to one or two and we're going to have to really lean on Hellebuck and we're going to lean on our defensive zone structure and, you know, that's, we're going to try and grind you down. Well, they can still do that. But now they can score six against the Rangers and they can score four against Dallas.

And like, they can play that, you know, track meet kind of game and win it and have success, which is dangerous. And like, no one's scoring more goals than the Jets in the NHL right now. They're over four goals a game. They got the best power play in the league. They're just under 42%. And the crazy thing is they didn't go out and sign a bunch of dudes. It's the same dudes that came back and Nikolai Eelers is on fire and Conner's on fire.

And you look at the way that team is kind of constructed and there's no reprieve when you play them. Lines 1 through 4 give you something. There's something that each of those lines is very good at and it makes them hard to play against. And like it's a it's a well-oiled machine and everything is. going well for them, but they're fall into that category of, okay, show us in the playoffs, because that's where all that kind of stuff seems to get abandoned. I wrote that about them last night or last week, because I was, I don't want to say trying to sell myself on them because that makes it, that sounds, that sounds negative.

And I'm not trying to be negative out of a team that's won 14 of its first 15 games. But I was trying to, I was trying to, I was trying to find something nice to say. and something nice to write. And Frankie, I leaned it on that with those lines. Like, you get something from all of them. And they're getting,

you know, some degree of secondary scoring that they, that they haven't, that they haven't gotten really. Like, like, Cole Poughetti breaking out is, is big,

but also, like, it's not just all on Shifley and, like, you're not just relying on Shifley and Connor for, for all your, for all your production in every single game.

So when they pop off like they did last night, we see Kyle, we see Connor gets a cup. couple and Shifley scores a huge one and whatever. That's all well and good. You can have your big guys carry you or carry the offensive load at least. It's certain moments, but it's not something they need to rely on every night in, night out because they are getting stuff from the third and fourth line.

Whether it's, whether it's decent defensive play or whatever, they're getting something from everybody in a way that I don't think they quite have before. And shout out to Scott Arneal. Boy, we talk about We talk about recycling coaches And you know, teams just going through the same guys If I'm sitting in Columbus right now, I'm going, what did this guy learn in the five years or whatever?

He has already in this season blowing past his win total from his second year in Columbus when he made it halfway through the season. He made it 41 games into that season. He had 11 wins when they fired him. and he's he had that in 12 games. He's definitely done a great job of having Connor Hellowbuck is his goal tender. I think that's probably part of the thing that he learned in Columbus was find a team that has Connor Hella Buck on it.

He did great at that. I got two things on Scott Arneal. I actually played three games for Scott Arneal. He was the head coach of the Chicago Wolves and I went to play for that team after my OHL season was done. And like I said, I was in some places for some. very short periods of time. That's one of those ones where I wonder if we saw each other face to face.

If you would say, hey, nice to see you again. Or he would be like, hey, I'm Scott R. Neal. Nice to meet you. Like, that's how brief. Do you think he's connect like, like when he sees you on TSN or whatever? Do you think he puts two and two together and you're like, oh, yeah, that's, that's smart, that's smart, that's smart, astute young man who does, who does great analysis on television is also someone who played defense for me for a little bit.

Played three games for me. And it was, there was such a weird interaction that happened because he was the coach who called me to tell me that I was getting called up to the NHL for the first time. But I was so new there. He didn't have my cell phone number. So he had to call the hotel and get the front desk to patch him through to my room. So my hotel phone rang. And like, if you're sitting in a hotel and your hotel phone rings, you're like, what the

hell is that? Why is that thing ringing? So obviously I answer it and he's like, hey, Frankie, it's Arnie. And he starts telling me and I'm like, okay, this is, this is really cool. But I think there's with him, he was the head coach at times last year because Rick Bonas had to be a way for for family reasons. And it's almost like he got to test drive the car and see how it runs last year. And I think that's important to kind of like not have to, you know, I know, I know, he was there as the assistant, but it's different when you get in the driver's seat. And he was in that driver's seat. And so he kind of knows how things felt and looked from that perspective last year. So he didn't have to take much time getting up to speed. Like, he knew it. And I would say as a

group, there's not a lot of turnover there. Like, there's almost no turnover there. Like, there's a couple guys that left, Schmidt and Dylan. And then, but the guys that kind of replaced him were, Colin Miller was there for half a year. Logan Stanley is playing more now. Dylan Sandberg was, he was a regular anyways, but it's all guys that were there. So you don't have four, five, six new guys coming into the locker room and everyone telling them about last year, all the stories about the playoffs and how this went,

how that went. They all did it. They all experienced it together. So there was none of that getting anyone up to speed. And I think that continuity, that lack of turnover is so important. and something that we don't see a lot in today's NHL because of the salary cap. We see so many bodies in and out every year. So that's got to be, I know for fact, that that has to be part of the success that they're

having. Arneill had the keys to the car last year. He drove it around. He saw how it, how it reacts. And he, like, he knows how to do it now this year. And the continuity from last year to this year, I think everyone just kind of, they're all on the same page, all speak in the same language. There was no one that came in there that really had to get up to.

speed on it. Yeah, two things on that. First of all, apology to Scott or nail, because we said you were assistant coach. He was associate coach last year. And we all kind of made fun of that. Like, what's the difference?

Now, now maybe with the way this is starting out, maybe we got to get some associate coaches on some of these teams ready to go. But the bigger thing is you talk about the continuity, and that's been a theme in Winnipeg for a couple of years now. And each of the last two off seasons, all of, you know, smart people like me looked at,

Winnipeg and went, they got to make changes. They got to make big changes. Two summers ago, they were coming off a disappointing season. They had Hallibuck and Mark Schifley were both entering the final year of the contract. And we went, well, I mean, you got to trade those guys. This is, it's time, time to break it up in Winnipeg. And instead, they signed both guys to long-term contracts and they run it back and have a great season. But the disappointing playoffs.

And then this year with the Nick Euler situation, a lot of us looked at and said, oh, that guy's got to get traded. That's the big fish in the trade market and this is going to be the change in Winnipeg. No, not yet. Don't have them extended. So we still don't know how that's going to go. But again, like there is, I hate to say this because I'm somebody I love the trades. I love, you know, the offseason moves. Yeah, maybe there is something to be said for a little bit of continuity and keeping the group together and understanding what's working and when maybe you do want to write it back for another year. That's a dirty word. Again, not to take it back to the least. It's a dirty word in Toronto, but I, well, I feel like Michael Scott right now.

I feel like Michael Scott where he's getting reprimanded from the boss and so badly he wants to say that's what she said. Because you're talking about continuity and running it back. And in my head, I'm like, oh my God, we could bring this back to Toronto. And Gentilly is going to blow a gasket on us. It's been a long morning. It's been a long morning. Can I just tell you right now, Winnipeg fans, I don't want to give any spoilers. This team is going to finish 81 and 1. And at the end of the season, the season ending DVD is going to be a breakdown of that one time

the Leafs beat them by the national Canadian media. And it's just going to be everybody frame by frame like, look what Austin Matthews did here. Isn't this guy great? There's going to be a promo for where were you when the game happened? That's right. Capital, capital T, capital G. I loved what Muratatatash wrote after the game last night.

I think it answered a lot of questions. that we've been kind of tip-toeing around. And maybe a lot of people have about the Jets, which is like, how are they doing this? And he made a lot of the points that we made already. The power play, sick,

44% conversion rate, they scored two big goals last night. They're getting looks too. They're generating looks. They're not just, you know, they're not just capitalizing on them. Like there's not,

there's not a ton of luck there. And he brought up specifically, you know, something that Chevalde-Aoff said ahead of the season, or after, or after or after the loss where you know this is a quote from shovel day off until you're the team standing there at the end you've done nothing the onus is on everybody within the organization to be that 10% better and that's that kind of message

I think in some level you know with the caveat that this is Connor Hallibuck's great and blah blah blah like there's there's there's real reasons for this that aren't just that aren't just you know a vibe check thing but I think being able to have that message and say everybody here needs to be 10% better land better when everybody's coming back. It's like, okay, you guys are, you guys are all here. This is on all of us. You know, it's not just a matter of bringing in a new piece and that's,

and that's going to change things. Like, the guys here are the ones that are going to get it done and, or not. And then we're all going to, we're all going to move on or beyond jobs or whatever. Messaging too, because if you're a player, if you're a player and you look at that lineup, um, first of all,

you've built a lot of evidence in your head that like, I'm important to this group. Like, Lowry's important, just like needer rider's important. just like Eelers is important and go down on the back end too. Like all those guys feel like they feel such a purpose for the team. So the coach can actually say like if he's having a meeting with the team or individuals,

like he's not lying when he says that because you see it and you know it. And that kind of, I think that just gets everyone to buy in a little bit more because, you know, you're not getting gasslet into, you know, someone telling you this or that. and you're like, wait, I don't see that exactly. No, like you, you see exactly what's happening. And they're just, like, they're just, they're hard to beat. They're hard to play against. They're on top of you.

They're relentless. Like, it's just, that's a really good team. It's a really good team. I feel some envy, Dan and Kevin at TSN, who call the games for us, who do such a great job. They just talk about how good the team is. And that's awesome because everyone benefits from that. No, when you got, we have the Adam Lowrys of the world that are, he's doing Adam Lowry things offensively. And he's, he's also a fourth on the team in five on five points. Like, you're going to win some games when you're getting that level of offensive production from dudes who typically are, you know, the lock them down, uh, defensive guys, right? So yeah, I don't know. I, I'm, I wasn't a much more sold on the Jets as an 81 win team now versus a week ago. Like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, It's possible.

And we can do that. The other part of this that, unfortunately, we have to talk about when it comes to the Jets is what it means off the ice. Yeah. Right? Because we remember last year, they sort of sounded the alarm a little bit in talking to CJ and putting out there to the media that we're not selling enough tickets. We're not bringing in enough revenue. And it's a challenging market just because of the size of it. Has nothing to do with the passion of the fans or anything like that.

It's just a small market. and you look at the attendance updates and it's good news, bad news, right? Good news, the Jets are up more than any other team in the league so far. Bad news, that still puts them, I think, 31st out of 32 in attendance. And it's a small building. So, I mean, you're running 90% capacity, which sounds good, except it's the smallest building in the league and, you know, the ticket prices and aren't as high and all of that. this season matters a lot to the Winnipeg Jets. And it matters that they have a great season,

that people are talking about them all year long, and that they have some success in the playoffs. I don't think it's Stanley Cup or bust Stanley Cup or you lose the franchise sort of deal. But as far as the long-term health of this team and this market, this season matters a ton. Yeah. Well, and one thing will have to happen in the playoffs for them,

more than, well, not more than the wins, because ultimately that's the most important. Connor Hellabuck is going to have to steal a game. He is going to have to steal at some point a playoff game, which clearly hasn't done the last couple years. And there's goleys around the league that do it pretty consistently, right? Like Schisturkin does it all the time. There's a goalie in New Jersey that has the ability to steal playoff games. And that is Jacob Markstrom.

And he's playing better of late. And the devils are playing better. and I found this hilarious. Like I was there. I just called Devils Habs last week. And this just lets you know where the devils are at. They won the game pretty handily. There was an empty net goal at the end.

But Sheldon Keith hated his team's game afterwards. Like he was asked, like, would you like about your team's game tonight? Nothing. And they won. And it's like, I think they're, you know, they're kind of starting to hammer something home there. you know, he's good coaching the offensive players, right?

Like that's been his M.O and he's got a lot of those guys in New Jersey now, and they have to limit their mistakes. But some people will say like, ah, you don't, you don't criticize a win. Yeah, you do. A hundred percent you do. If you really want to be great, you criticize a win, especially when it doesn't look the way it should.

And so I think that was, that was an interesting tidbit after a game where you could have just said, a wins, a win, we'll take it and we'll leave. it's like, no, I hated that. And even though we won. And talk about like a little Roershack test of a team. They're simultaneously at first place in the Metro Division and fourth place, depending on what column you use. Because for some reason, they have played five more games than any of the teams behind them.

I don't know what the schedule maker is doing in there. And I don't know, you never know if this sort of stuff is good or bad, right? Because on the one hand, you know, you have games at hand. good, but then you got to play them, which means, you know, you got to wear yourself down. But yeah, as of right now, they are first place in points ahead of Carolina, ahead of New York, ahead of the Washington we just talked about, and yet fourth place in point percentage behind all those teams. So pick your poison, pick your column, whichever one you want to sort by if you want it to be good news or maybe not so good news. I think there's something, like we got to try and do this at some point in the next couple weeks.

Let's do a dudes ranking. Let's go. And we got it like, we talked about this already, but like maybe dudes that we didn't think we're going to be dudes. What do you think about that? Because we know who like, we know who the guys are. You know what I mean? But like, who did we not expect to be a dude and all of a sudden this guy's,

guy's sick? He's legit. Maybe that's something we think about for next week. There we go. Do we got one of those guys on the devils? Um, I'm like, I'm going through their stuff. you know Paul Cotter leads them in five on five points? Paul Cudder is good.

He's a good player. At one point, he is good. I didn't think he would have 11, 11, 5 on 5 points in 18 games. It was funny. So I was tracking this one stat for the longest time, and I still track it end-to-end rushes because calling Montreal games, Lane Hudson was leading all defensemen in that regard in the NHL. But when you look at like the forwards that get involved, at one point, Paul Cotter was in the top five, end-to-end rushes.

You know, he carries the puck from his own zone. So he probably gets it on the wall and carries it through the neutral zone and has a clean entry into the offensive zone. I was like, I keep seeing Paul Carter on this list every day in the sport logic report. But he's getting more of an opportunity, right? And I think he credited Fitzgerald the other day saying like, have a lot of, you know, like time and respect for him for giving me this chance and

Sheldon. And he's obviously proving them right because he's, yeah, he's, he's more than just a guy. on that team for sure. You can pass on that sports logic log in whenever we hang up here too. I'll take that. I'll take that. Yeah.

Right now, maybe leading the dudes, we didn't think we're going to be dudes power ranking, might be McMichael in Washington. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. Right? Yep.

Fucking yemi's been really good for Carolina. I thought the ship had kind of sailed on, on him in terms of what they wanted, when it wanted to get from him too. I like it. We're doing it. Luckily, the Art Ross guy... Let's just block in and do this.

The Art Ross guy had already inscribed Connor MC on the Art Ross, but then he was like, you know what? I'll hold off. And he's lucky he did because still up in here. Let's hold off on that. He's going to say, we're leaving. We're leaving on that one. Frankie, thanks, but we'll talk you next week.

Okay, boys, have a good one. Time for what we learned over the last week. Sean, tell me something, please. What have we learned, Sean? I learned something that I probably should have already figured out, But as a guy who loves the Hall of Fame and loves induction weekend, which we just had, and congratulations to everyone who went in, I did that thing where as soon as something's over, you flip ahead to next year.

Sat down. In fact, I got a question on the other pot. Somebody said, give us next year, the class of 2025. And I thought, all right, this is right up my alley. I love these sorts of things. And then I sat down to look at it. And what I learned is, I think next year's Hall of Fame class, at least on the men's player's side, is going to be kind of a bust in terms of suspense. Because I think it's already kind of locked in.

We've got two absolute sure thing locks out of the four spots. Remember, there's only four spots on the men's side. Joe Thornton, Zedano Char. I can't imagine, unless one of them has run over the dog of one of the guys on the committee. It would have to be some kind of extreme personal affront. Yeah, I mean, I don't even, if unless one of them has done whatever Alexander McGilney has clearly done, they're in, I think, I think Duncan Keith is maybe not a 100% bet my life on it, first ballot lock, but he's pretty close.

He's pretty close. I wrote a piece last week where I was like, all right, let's make the case against some of the borderline ones. and I had Duncan Keith on my list of guys to do, and then I got to it, and I was like, you know what? Even in an article where I'm playing the contrarian and kind of doing it as a gimmick,

I'm not making a case against Duncan Keith. There isn't one. Two Norris's. Norris's best defenseman on a, you know, one of the two best teams. Yeah, 30 minutes a night on a team that won a bunch of Stanley Cups, huge part of Team Canada. Are you a guy who gives a shit over whether a player gets in on the first ballot or not?

Like, does that, that's kind of more of a baseball thing. Yeah, where it's like, ah, this guy's good and I'll vote for him next year, but let's make him wait. I think that's, I think that's crazy. Yeah, no, I don't, I don't think there's a separate level of honor for that, especially since very often there's there's a backlog of guys. So it's kind of like, hey, I mean, sometimes you do have to to wait your turn. I do think it's, it's very weird when you see guys wait 10, 15, 20 years and then suddenly they get in. You're like, what did Broji Fashon do last year that suddenly put him back on the radar?

but that's a different got a couple of his friends a couple guys who like him popped up on the up on the induction could be absolutely could be so I mean you've got you've got the four spots for men's players three of them are kind of spoken for

and then it just comes down to do you do you put in somebody from the backlog which would I mean you would hope would be McGillney but you know there are there are other guys or do you give it to another guy who's the first year guy in Carrie Price. It might just be four first time guys,

all going right to the front of the line. You know, I think Kerry Price is, I did cover Carrie Price in that piece I wrote last week where I said like there is an argument against here. But I do think he gets in. You know, I don't think 10 years from now we're sitting here talking about Kerry Price not being in the Hall of Fame,

whether it's this year or not. But really, that's the spot. And if you think Carrie Price is a slam dunk, sure thing, No questions as Hall of Famer. Then you're done on the men's side because that's it. There's only four spots. They don't always use Hall 4, but they usually do. That's it.

That's who you got right there. And it's just the first year, guys. Man, Carrie Price is a first ballot inductee would be, I think, you know what? I think that's good proof of concept that we need to start thinking differently about goaltenders in the Hall of Fame. Like maybe that's what it is. We had that year, a couple years ago,

or Mike Vernon and, you know, all the, that's the backlog. It was, it was too, it was ridiculous how few goaltenders were in the Hall of Fame for a long time. Yeah, I don't remember exactly. I had a stat that I came up with. I don't remember exactly what it was, but I think as of a couple years ago, if you had started watching the NHL in 1972,

you had seen the debut of five Hall of Fame goaltenders, I think. and it was Wah Hasick Broder, Belfour, and Grant Fear, I think we're the only five guys. Everyone else had either been in the league that long, going back to like Billy Smith and that. And then we got to Luongo and Lunguys, which were no doubt about it, guys. But then, yeah, you're right. We hit the Vernon Barrasso year, which was kind of that. And it sounds bizarre to say it. But you almost wonder now, like, have we swung too far to the other side?

where maybe, you know, if Barrasso and Vernon are Hall of Famers, then suddenly, I mean, that's a guy like Curtis Joseph is right back in the conversation. A guy like Chris Osgood is back in. Mark Andre Fleury is going to get in. So are we actually jamming too many goalies? And in another year, we've got Peckerene, Tuka Rask, as kind of the next guys up, maybe after Price or maybe not. You could argue that.

But are we now like too many guys? I think I'd put price in next year. Because like my immediate reaction was like, no. And also is, are we 100% sure he's a Hall of Famer? Like, period on merit. But I think I think I'm good with that. And I think part of that is because the stand, like it's a living, it's a living museum, right? The standards change.

Like, that's just kind of what that's kind of the way it works. The argument, you know, for price can kind of, of being encapsulated. And first of all, he had one of the greatest years in the modern era, won the MVP, something that almost never

happens for goaltenders. So he's one of the only goaltenders you can sit there and say, I was named most valuable player. Now, the counter to that is, okay, so was Jose Teodor and nobody's putting him

in the Hall of Fame. And that was really the only, truly great carry price here when you look at the numbers. He had a couple of years where he was, you know, in the Vesina, but that was his only,

his one Vesina win, was that year he had you know obviously didn't have any other heart wins but you look at if you take that year out you're left with a career that looks like a good but not great guy now you don't take that year out you don't take a player's best year and you know any player is going to look significantly worse you take their best year out right and then and then the other thing with carry price you get into is some people say ah but you never won a stanley cup yeah but he first of all he won a gold medal you don't get to say somebody's not a winner when they they won Olympic gold best on best in fact I think he won a couple and he also was a guy who

had some fantastic playoff runs I mean I I would argue that him taking that terrible habs team to the final in 2021 that's what gets more on the winner list than mark Andre fleury sitting on the bench watching his team win a Stanley Cup so I think it's a close call. I think the fact that people also love the guy is maybe what tips it into he gets in territory. I think the bubble play

is what gets him in for whatever the short season, whatever you want to call it. If that doesn't happen, I'm not sure he's in, but you know what? It did. It did happen. Like you said, you know, that was the year that everybody was like, yeah.

Yeah, everybody was just like the only hope that the habs have face. And do you remember, like, it wasn't just that he played great. Like, he was in everyone's head that year. Like, from starting from the Leaf Series, it was like, no, this is scary. Like, they might win the cup here because Gary Price has gone God mode. And nobody was shocked. This wasn't like Michael Leighton going on a hot streak for, for a few weeks. People were like, uh-oh, we've got fully realized Carrie Price. I'm not sure I can remember the vibes around a goaltender being that being at that level.

outside of like Hachek in the time that I've in the time that I've watched hockey and been you know a sentient hockey fan Patrick Waa would be the other one I don't even know that Broderer ever got there I don't I'm not sure I'm not sure that there was a

there was a there was an air of inevitability with carry price I think for a cup for it was it was like if you get this level of carry price you're done you're not winning this series and this was a guy who leading up to that People forget this. That was six years after his MVP season.

And in between, he signed the big contract. And a lot of people were like, that's a bad contract, man. They were locked in on a not very good goaltender relative to what they're paying him. He's not even close to that, man. This is going to be real bad. And then, boy, he just went into that mode. And at that time, it felt like you were watching a Hall of Fame. Like if we held the vote in 2021, unanimous, absolute, no questions asked.

that was a Hall of Fame performance. So who knows? And I think this is a factor that gets significantly overrated when we talk about Hall of Fame stuff. But if it's a close call, the fact that he played his whole career with Montreal doesn't hurt. Versus Nashville like Pecker-Renay or, you know, like I don't think it hurts. Let's just say. I think after this conversation, I don't even think it's going to come down to that.

We've settled it. Carrie Price. So that's it. Next year. Put them in next year. The four first guys and everyone else who's waiting. Keep waiting, guys. Sorry.

Sorry, Kujo. Sorry, McGilney. Sorry, Keith Kachuk. No openings. It's settled. Yeah. It's not settled. Is who is the number, well, I'll say we don't know who's going to go number one

because it's a seesaw battle. And that's what we learned this week. We have Porter Martone jumping up to the top of Pranman's draft prospects list. So I've learned that I need to just stop assuming that whoever wins the lottery, and we joke every week about it being the Penguins, because it probably will happen. Let's be real. As it will be. Yep. Maybe they take Porter Martone. Maybe they don't take James Higgins. I had heard this comparison. I'm sure it was from Max Bolton, between Hagen's and Martone. Higgins is, you know, the playmaking center. Not very big, but he's got to

good all around game he's logan coolly and martone's like he's big he's a winger can score nasty shot like he's slavkosky so that's like that's the comparison that i'd heard that's the comparison that corey made in his uh in his in his in his in his lead to his rankings and i think that's i think that's a helpful way to look at it moving forward where you don't know like you can't say with any real certitude who's better there's no slam done some of it comes down to preference. And just like the, just like the Canadians preferred

Slavkovsky over the coolies and chain rights, the world, you know, I think, I think some of this is just going to be based on maybe not organizational need, but just what they, but just what they value. So if you're just assuming,

like I was, that the Pittsburgh Penguins are going to take Hagan's first overall, check out Pranman's rankings, because I think there's, I think there's something to suggest that maybe it's not quite that simple. We don't see a lot of wingers go first overall, but it's happened a couple of times in recent years. And LaFrenier and Slavkovsky, two guys who both kind of got off to slowish starts to their careers and then found a level of game that kind of reintroduced them to.

Yeah. Be worthy of that sort of pick. They were washed up 20 and 21 and 22 year olds. It took them. That's right. It took them so long. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think hearing me call them a bust 14 or 15 times probably really. Really gave him the your motivation.

We're going to, one of these days when Slavkovsky heats up, we're going to go back and dig up some of your slander on him. Please don't. You're strong anti. No, we'll do it. Habs fans will react normally to it too. They're always good for it. As every Washington Capitals fan who read my piece where I said Alexander Rovetchkin was off to a slow start,

if I say something about a player in the moment, if I say he played bad last night or he's not producing, that means forever. It is implied that I am saying this situation will never change and it is a permanent state of affairs. And if that turns out not to be the case, if anything changes ever, you definitely have to let me know because I really enjoy getting those tweets. It's crazy that when players play better, we start to treat them like they're better. It's wild how that works. It's really, that's really all it takes. I can't wait for someone to dig up my capo-caco takes.

he finally cracks like 20 goals as a 29 year old and I'll be like well this aged well he like that's it did yeah I wrote that's from a social media site it doesn't exist anymore that's right join us on blue sky I'm I'm post I'm posting there now wonderful yeah blue sky I blue sky is the site where I post all the all the positive takes about your favorite players and and just it's just it's just over there like it's You know, and then, yeah, the other site is, gets, I got to fit in. So I just spew toxic negativity constantly. We got people asking for you on a blue sky site, brother.

If I felt like I could remember to do two things instead of barely remembering to do one thing, I'd be right over there. I took Twitter off off my home screen on my phone. I thought you were happier today. I thought you were like, there was like a different energy to you. No, definitely not hung over. at all. All right, buddy. Good. Thank you fine folks for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show.

Thank you, Sean McIndoo. Thank you, Frankie Grado, wherever you are. Haley and I are you back tomorrow, Thursday show, The Athletic Hockey Show. See you then.