The Athletic Hockey Show - Can the Ottawa Senators make a playoff push this season, 22 NHL names to watch, and odds for this year's Rocket Richard winner

Episode Date: September 29, 2022

To kick off the show, Ian and Sean discuss one of the biggest storylines heading into the NHL season: Did the Senators do enough this offseason to make the playoffs? Then in "Granger Things", Jesse Granger joins the show to discuss lines for this year's top scorer in the league. Next Ian and Sean discuss Sean's latest piece on the most intriguing NHL names to watch this season, Sean drops some new rules for the mailbag, and more.Have a question for Ian & Sean? Email [e-mail] or leave a VM [phone]!Save on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshowSubscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: https://bit.ly/3BKz27u Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. We are back and is your Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, as always, in the big chairs. It's the Mendez Sean McHandu with you for the next hour. We're going to have a lot of fun here. Training camps are well underway. We're going to talk about the Ottawa Senators today. We've been bouncing around the league this week on the athletic hockey show.

Monday, we chat at Chicago. Tuesday, I know they had some fun talking Charlie O'Connor and the Flyers. Wednesday was the Golden Knights, and we're up with all. Ottawa here today. We'll also open up the mailbag. We got some some fun stuff here coming up. But yeah, listen, we're going through the biggest storylines of the offseason, Sean. I'm shocked that the Ottawa senators are actually on the list. But like legitimately, I think that there's a curiosity factor league-wide about the Ottawa senators, right? Like, I'm not just looking at this through the Ottawa lens, right? No, absolutely. And look, if we were doing this last year or the

year before, you know, we were picking the 10 or 12 most interesting teams. There's no way all it was on the list. There's no chance. And yet, this year, yeah, absolutely. This is, this is a team that they added talent. They've shaken it up. The expectations are up. They're going to be a better team. We'll get into how good they can be. But they should also be a fun team. You know, like this is, This is not a team that sat down and said, you know what, we got to win more games. How do we grind out two to one games? This is a team. They brought in some offensive firepower.

The blue line isn't good. This should be a high scoring team at both ends of the ice. And they'll be worth watching. And we haven't said that about the Ottawa senators since the 2017 playoffs. Yeah. And you're right. And that 2017 playoffs, what was the narrative around Ottawa? Boring.

There's a boring team. And you're right. This will be the exact. opposite. Now, the question is, and look, and I wrote a column this week on it because the one thing you'll hear from a lot of people is the gap between Ottawa and even to some extent New Jersey and Detroit and anybody who might think that, Buffalo who might think that, hey, maybe if everything falls into place, we could have playoff aspirations, that's not just a little gap. That's a wide, wide gap. 27 points for Ottawa to be exact. And so I looked it up and I thought,

you know, let's just look at, like how often in the salary cap era? does a team miss the playoffs by 20 points, you know, one season, turn around and make it the next season? And the answer is nine times it's happened. And the one thing I found on this was in virtually all those situations, you're talking about teams a lot of times they're landing generational players, right? Think of Toronto. They turned it around to get Austin Matthews.

And they also added Mitch Marner. That was his rookie year too. And Willie Nealander was his first full year, right? I think he'd played a few games before anyway. But, you know, Pittsburgh added, you know, Evgeny Malkin and Jordan Stahl. And all of a sudden, you're like, wow, this is good. You know, so, you know, there's an element to that. The one constant I found, though, for virtually all the teams,

whether it was the penguins or the capitals or, you know, Colorado did it a couple of times, you dramatically shave off your goals against, like 40, 50, 60, 70 goals sometimes. year over year. And that becomes the question with Ottawa. Yes, they're going to be fun. Yes, they're going to score goals. Can they shave off 40 goals from the goals against? I think their goaltending will be more stable.

I don't know that it'll be better, but it'll be more stable. And this is going to be the question with Ottawa. As much as we focus on Alex DeBrinke it, Claude Jureu, and the fun power play, and who's going to play with? Can they keep the puck out of their net? Because really, at the end of the day, when you look at the NHL,

99 times out of 100, the 16 playoff teams, are pretty much the 16 best defensive teams with the odd exception of a team that's an aberration. So if Ottawa can get into the top half of the defensive realm in the NHL, I think they've got a chance to make the playoffs. But I don't put them at anything higher than 50% right now. Even 50% feels really high to me.

And look, we've all looked at those eastern playoff teams and who was there last year and what the gap looks like. And we're all doing that same math. you talked about of, okay, how do we, somebody's got to make up to 20 points because it's never the same eight teams to make the playoffs, or at least it has never been the same eight teams in the cap era in a conference that have made the playoffs. It never happened once. So you look at it and you say, somebody's going to drop, somebody's going to jump up, who's it going to be, but that gap is so, so big. I was actually surprised, looking at your piece that the,

that there were as many teams that had done it as, as their head been. that gives some hope to the Ottawa's in Detroit and Columbus and guys like that, yeah. But it is tough. And as far as Ottawa shaving those goals off, I'm not convinced this blue line is significantly better. We don't know what the Jake Sanderson factor is going to be. We don't know if that's going to be enough to move the needle. But for a rookie, it would be very unusual for a rookie to come in and have a significant an impact as a defenseman, let alone defensively.

That I don't think is something you count on. It maybe comes down to the goaltending, and the goaltending is different. The goaltending is probably improved, but, you know, Camp Talbot, this was a guy who last year on a very good Minnesota team, they said, you know what, we got to go out and get Mark Andre Fleur. So more stable, yes, but is it going to be good enough to shave those goals off? I don't know. I mean, you watch this team all the time. What's the best case scenario? Let's keep focusing defensively because I think we can all imagine the young forwards take a step up and De Brinket has a great season and Giroux and all of that.

It's not hard to find a lot more goals for this team. How do you shave the goals off? Right. And this becomes the problem when you really only have one pairing on D and Thomas Schumann. and Artem Zub that you would consider to be, you know, a really solid, reliable pair. And there's a great debate. I know you've talked about this in some of your columns. Is Thomas Shabbat an elite defenseman or not? Yep. He certainly paid like one.

He's paid like one and he's played like one. And he has played like one. But is that the lack of options? It's the Oliver Ekman-Larsin debate from Arizona from years ago, right? Like, okay, yeah, he's getting, you know, 7, 8 million, whatever is. contract was and he's getting 27 minutes a night but you know what you want to ask yourself is is everybody slotted properly like yes like it is tough and if top shabana's a one that's fine but i think for now basically you're asking 20 year old jake sanderson to roll in and eat significant

minutes and basically play 20 minutes a night and i'm not saying that he can't do it and he won't I think two years from now, we're going to be having some really good conversations about Jake being one of the better young defenders in the game. That's an awful lot of pressure to put on a young man. Like he's got to basically, this is my theory on Jake. He's got to go like full more excited. Like he's got to have a more excited type of rookie season. And that's a lot though, right? Like that's a lot of expectation to put on a young man.

It's a ton. And look, you're right. It's it's a ton. and it's very unlikely to have it happen. But I do get where the optimism around this kid comes from in Ottawa because it used to be not that long ago, even a blue chip defensive prospect, it took a few years.

Even if you were good enough to get into the NHL at a young age, even the Chris Prongers and guys like that, you didn't step up and have an impact right away. You were looking at a defenseman. You were thinking it's probably year three, four, five. before, you know, we're going to get Norris candidate level play out of this kid. And you look around the league suddenly and you look at what Kail McCar has done in Colorado and how he elevated what was already a good team into being an elite team.

You look at Adam Fox. You look at Mort's Sider. You look at guys like that. And especially this time of year, this is the time of year for optimism, if you're a senator's fan, you're going, if Jake Sanderson is that guy, what does that do? to this team. And because then we don't have to debate Thomas Shabbat is a number one or not. You know, you're right. I've been having that fight with Senators fans. In fact, I've got to call him coming out tomorrow where I make this exact point. I've been having this argument with

about Thomas Shabbat with Senators fans for five years now. You know, and my argument is always, hey, if a guy is an elite defenseman, shouldn't he have had more than one Norris vote, one fifth place Norris vote in his entire career? And I know people say, well, it's Ottawa. off. He was in Toronto, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, this is not a guy who has cracked that elite level yet. Does that, can he still be a number one? Sure. A number one, that means you're one of the 32 best defensemen in the league. I could absolutely put him in there. We can go around and around on this argument. But if Jake Sanderson comes in and he can be a Mosey or a Kail McCar type of guy, then that argument becomes moot. Because now we're talking about

Thomas Shaw being one of the very best number twos in the entire league. And every, and everybody bounces down. That's the beauty of having a guy emerge as a number one defenseman. It doesn't just improve that number one spot. It improves everything because everybody else slots down. And I think there's a path to it for Jake Sanderson. But the path isn't this year. If we're talking about make the playoffs this year,

it would be almost unheard of even for A kale McCar or guys like that to step in and have the sort of impact that he would need to have in year one. for us to look at that Ottawa Senator's blue line and say that's now a strength and not a question mark. Yeah, and you know what? And it's important. Like, I've had some really good conversation. So for people who don't know, Jake Sanderson's dad is Jeff Sanderson. And Jeff was a really good player. 380. I think goals in the NHL 17 years. Hell of a shot in NHL 94, right? Jeff Sanderson with Hartford coming down the wing. I've had some really good conversations with Jeff, you know, in the last few months, even one just a couple weeks ago. And the one thing Jeff said is, look, I hope people don't think he's going to step in and beat Kail McCar. Because first of all, he's not that type of defense, but he's not the flashy.

You know, when you think of McCar, you think of, remember that goal he scored again, was in Chicago in overtime. Like he kind of just, he, kale McCar does ridiculous things. That's not Jake. A Kale McCar comes around once a decade. Right. And so I think a guy like Jake, he's a lot more quiet. fact, I've talked to him, to Jeff. I've talked to his old coach at North Dakota, Brad Barry.

And I always ask people, like, when Jake is playing at his best, what's the one thing Ottawa fan should look for? And everybody always comes back to me the same thing. You won't notice him. You just won't notice him. He's so quiet and efficient. And so that's the part of me that thinks, I don't think he's going to come in and just be the McCar.

Or you remember when Quinn Hughes came into Vancouver to it was just like an instant kind of buzz in electricity. Jake's not going to be like that. But here's the counter argument to that. This is exactly what Ottawa needs. They need some quiet, they just need some quietness on the back. It's been a gong show defensively.

So maybe in a weird way, him not being noticed is exactly what they need. So anyway, this is going to be fascinating. I agree with you. It's like when your favorite baseball team in the off season trades for a pitcher. Now all of a sudden, the ace from the previous years is the two guy and three guys down to four,

you know, all that stuff with slotting. That's what you're hoping for. But Ottawa did not go out and get Jake Chikrin. They did not go out and get... Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. But here's the thing. This is what I find really interesting.

And DJ Smith didn't make your list of 22 kind of people to watch in the NHL. And when you got to the coaches in GM section, you know, you listen. And we're going to talk about Kyle Dubas here in a second. And, you know, I think you had Mike. Greer listed and, you know, a couple of other. But DJ Smith is going to feel the heat right away, right?

Yes. Like there's no kind of easing in. Let's give it. Like he's got to hit the ground running right away. And to me, this is where the pressure is going to be of, you got to ice your best lineup. This isn't a time to figure out if, you know, Nikita Seitzv, can he still play? Like, this is, it's go time right off the hop. And I think the pressure is going to be, like, if you had to tell, like, can you name for me?

And I really, like, I don't want people to understand this. I really like DJ Smith. Like, I actually think he's been torpedoed by bad goal tending, not a great roster, all that stuff. A lot of those excuses, I think, have evaporated now. So he's going to have to hit the ground running. Can you name for me another coach that has that type of pressure right off the hop? Like, I really, is there anybody else in the league?

I'm not sure that there is. And, you know, this is, and it's kind of a bit of a grim subject, but This is the time of year where you start seeing those first coach fired lists go around. And if I was making a list, DJ Smith would be number two on my list. I put them behind Lindy Ruff only because of the situation. Similar expectations, except New Jersey went and hired Andrew Burnett to be an associate coach in waiting. And a lot of people figured that that means Lindy Ruff's got one more year and then they do a peaceful transfer of power, so to speak. I'm not sure it gets it.

That's right. You know, when you're up, moves up stairs, he goes up, I'm breaking it out. It's a new thing, right? It's, it's sort of like we saw in Colorado with Joe Sackett moves upstairs. You know, that is nobody's getting, nobody's got a footprint on their back. Yeah, but it's, I like it. I'm not sure it gets that far in New Jersey. But yeah, you look at DJ Smith and this is the double edge short of expectations, right?

And we saw it last year. You know, Ottawa, there is a lot of talk about this is, you know, this is the year. Rebuild is over, infamously. Pierre Doria had declared last year, and they were coming off a back half of a season where they had put up a decent record down the stretch they had been good. And there was some optimism. And then they just face plan it right out of the gate last year. Terrible start.

Four wins in their first 20 games. Off. There is, if there is any kind of start like that in Ottawa this year, DJ Smith doesn't make it within sniffing distance of the 20 game mark. I think we can say that because this year, the expectations are high again and the rebuild is being declared over again. But last year, it felt like hope. It felt like wishful thinking.

And this year, it feels like it's actually based on something. And I go back to that piece that you wrote where you talked about the nine teams that made a big jump. And you talk about, you know, a lot of them got a generational start. Yes. Almost all of them cut the goals against. Yes. the other thing that jumped out to me though is

every one of those teams there was a coaching change in the story a lot of them the coaching change happened during that season it was teams that got off to bad starts made a coaching change others had made it during the offseason and a lot of them had made the change the year before but it was like a middle of the year sort of thing so this was a team's first year with first full year first full camp first full off season under a coach

I think if I remember right, the only two teams that hadn't made a coaching change during the previous season or during the offseason with current season on that list was the Colorado Avalanche with Jared Bedner and I don't count that because he came in, he did have quote unquote a full season, but Patrick Clark quit. Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't a full season. I consider that a midseason coaching change. So I don't count that. And then the other one was Mike Babcock in Toronto who had had the one full year. But even that, it had only been one year. And that was a tanking year. I mean, and the Leafs were a special case because they were tanking in 2015, 16, and then they had the three rookies all coming in at the same time, which is almost unheard of. Right. Other than that, I don't see any team that's been in Ottawa situation that has had consistency behind the bench that has made that kind of.

jump. And usually we talk about consistency behind the bench is a good thing, right? You don't want to be cycling in different voices and people, you know, especially young kids here in different, being told different things all the time. If DJ Smith can get this team into the playoffs, he will be doing something unprecedented for a coach in NHL cap era history. So I think that's worth keeping an eye on. It is Ottawa. They don't like to fire guys. They don't like paying two people to do the same job. I don't think it's, you know, this is a Denny Savard situation where you start 0 and 3 and make a change.

But absolutely. I'm not sure that there's anyone who's under pressure in the same way. Because look, Lindy Ruff in New Jersey, Lindy Ruff's been to a Stanley Cup final. Lindy Ruff has a very long track record. He's got the big resume. D.J. Smith really doesn't. And I, you know, I don't know DJ Smith. I've never spoken to him, but I like him as a coach.

You know, he was part of the Leafs organization for a while. It's, uh, I'm rooting for him. But you look at the, you look at the resume at an NHL level, it's not there. It's with a really bad team. And he was brought in as a guy, you know, more than anything to develop and get these guys up and going. And he's done a great job of that. But we all know in hockey, in sports, a lot of times the coach that comes in to coach up the young guys is not the coach. who gets to cash in on that when it's time to be good.

And I'm, I, the start is going to be everything in Ottawa because it put aside the coaching, I mean, you, you know this market better than anybody. If they get off to another lousy star, if they start off two and eight, the air going out of that balloon. They can't. They can't. They can't. Like last year, like I said, four of 20 games to start the season, the year before they

won one of their first 10, can't happen, right? Now, again, I am probably one of the DJ Smith apologists out there in this market, but I've always felt like he just didn't have, like, I looked at last season and even the year before when they were just, they were kind of scuttling along. I thought, like, if you brought in whoever you thought was the best, I think last year or the year before, people thought Barry Trots might have been the best coach in the game or even if you brought in a Bruce Boudreau, like, I thought, okay, like maybe you'll be better, but I didn't think they were ever going to be playoff good at any point in the last

three years. But now, now I think we can definitively say at least this roster should challenge for a playoff spot. And I think that's the expectation auto. It's not playoffs or bust. It's we better be playing meaningful, meaningful games in March and April. And the only way to do that, though, is to win in October and November, which they haven't done, right? And I got to say it, I'm looking at the schedule right now. That's tough first 10 games. They open up, they go into Buffalo to open up. Yeah. That's clearly a winnable game. and they have Arizona visiting at some point. So you can mark that.

It's a fun game homestand. Other than that, it's all good teams. It's Toronto, Boston, Washington, Dallas, Minnesota, Florida, Tampa. Those are all playoff teams. And then you get to game number 10, the only other, other than Buffalo and Arizona, the only other non-playoff team in their first 10 games, Vegas Golden Knights, who, you know, I think a lot of us have penciled in as a playoff team. That's an awful tough start.

Now, after that, it goes Philadelphia, Vancouver, New Jersey, Philadelphia, again, Islanders, Sabers, Devils, Sharks, that's an eight-game stretch that's, you should be able to make up a lot of ground. So that's where the optimism comes in. Except if you're DJs, how many times do we see a team that's off to a bad start or is having a bad stretch? And you kind of look at that schedule. And when the easy stretch comes up, that's when the change happens because you want the new guy to get off to a good start. So, boy, you could see them going to Florida at the end. end of October. They're already off to a bad start. They lose to Florida. They lose to Tampa

Bay. They come home. Here come the Golden Knights. Maybe it's Mark Stone. And next thing you know, oh, we're three and seven, you make the change and the easy schedule comes up. And Pierre Doran looks like a genius because the new guy gets a few wind under his belt. Like I say, it's a grim subject, but this is sports. This is part of the game. DJ Smith got this job because somebody else got fired and we know how it works. I think DJ Smith could get to the end of the year. And if he's got this team in the playoff hunt, he's maybe a Jack Adams finalist.

Yeah. I like him a lot. But the deck is stacked against him a little bit here. It almost feels, I'm not going to say playoffs or busts for Ottawa, but does it almost feel like Jack Adams or bust for DJ Smith? Yeah. Look,

it's not playoffs or bust for Ottawa because, again, I think the odds are really stacked against them, making it to the postseason this year. But I would say it is meaningful. hockey robust. 82 meaningful games for the Ottawa Senators. It can't be another year where you're out of it by American Thanksgiving. And you're expecting fans to just watch 60 games of nothing. They've been out of it by Canadian Thanksgiving. Yes. Yeah. And that can't happen again, not in this market, not as, you know, with all the optimism around the team, with the changes and the

new new guys coming in and everything. This is the time to build on it. And again, I don't, This is a, Ottawa is a very good market. It's a very smart market. Nobody is walking around here thinking, this is the Stanley cop here. And I don't even, I have not encountered a lot of Senators fans walking around saying, this is a playoff team for sure. I think a lot of fans are saying we can get into the mix. Yeah.

If a few things break right, it's doable. The door is open. But I really feel like for this team, where they are, let's play some. games that matter in March. Let's play some games in March where our game is circled on the calendar. And we're not, we're not finishing the season seven and three and building optimism. But oh, by the way, it's all against backup goalies. And we're the night off for every other team because we've been out of it for so long. Meaningful hockey where, you know, we're going up on Hockey Night Canada. We're playing the Leads. We're playing the Oilers. Whoever it is

and people are saying, I really want to watch that game because that's going to have an impact on on the playoff race. That's what they need. And then if they don't make it, if they fall four or five points short, you know what? That's still a good season. And then next year becomes the year

that everyone says, okay, now you've got to be a playoff team. All right, as always, time to bring in our pal jessie Granger, courtesy of BetMGM, the exclusive betting partner with the athletic. We were just talking about Ottawa's schedule coming up in the Vegas Golden Knights,

being one of those teams. Jesse, of course, covers the Vegas Golden Knights for us. But when we bring them on the Thursday edition of the pod, We love to talk about some, you know, prop bets and futures and things like that. And Jesse, as we get into the regular season, let's look at goal scoring leader, like the Rocket Richard Trophy winner coming up for this season. As you look at this, not a lot of surprises at the top, you know, Austin Matthews, who was the only 60 goals score in the league last year.

He's the odds-on favorite to repeat as the winner. No surprise there. Leon Drysiddle has really turned into a legitimate 50-goal guy. not surprising he's number two. Then the other, you know, the usual Connor McDavid, Alex Ovechkin, kind of rounding out your top four.

But let's talk about some smart money maybe to put down here. Or if you're looking to, you know, possibly a great pick to, in your fantasy hockey pool, if you're picking in the top six or seven and goals matter a little bit more.

Like what are some names that jump out to you on this list? Yeah, it's, I'll start by saying, the fact that Austin Matthews is only two and a half to one, and Connor McDavid is nine to one. It's insane to me. Connor McDavid had more expected goals last year.

I know Matthews is more of a goal score, but that part right there is crazy. If I was going to bet one of those top guys, it would definitely be McDavid. But in terms of the more longer shots, one of the guys I really have my eye on is Sebastian Aho, I'm in Carolina. When you look at his numbers from a goals per 60, he was right up there with Matthews and Kreider. and you look at his, I like to look at guys who maybe they generated the chances, they were in front of the net, they had the dangerous shots, and sometimes they just don't go in.

And a guy like that, you can bet on him and then hopefully maybe this year they will go in. Like, you're obviously taking long shots down here, so there's no guarantee the Sebastian Ahho is going to lead the league in scoring. But I think he was third in the league last year in expected goals per 60. The only players with more expected goals per 60 were Austin Matthews and Matthew Kachuk. obviously guys that were near the goal scoring race. Sebastian Ajo was nowhere near the goal scoring race because those goals just didn't find the back of the net as often. He's 19th on the odds right now, so you can get him at 40 to 1.

To me, a guy who, according to the statistics, should have had the third most goals last year. You can get him the 19th best odds at 40 to 1. That is good money. I don't think you should expect to win that bet, but at 40 to 1, you're rarely going to find to bet you expect to win. I think Sebastian Aho's got a legitimate chance. I think Carolina's going to be better this year. They've been good in the past, but I think you add Paul Stasney to that already talented forward group. Obviously, Brent Burns back there, I think he's going to, he may not help him defensively, but he will help them offensively. So I really like Sebastian Ajo.

And then another guy who's kind of in that same range. And I'm looking at him for the same reasons is Philip Forsberg. He's just a couple above Ajo at the 17th best odds at 35. to one. Last year, he was a goal scoring machine, but he still didn't score as often as he should have, if you look at his analytics. He was third in Goals Per 60 behind Kreider and Matthews. So he's, he's right up there. And yet, I think because his name just isn't as big, maybe he plays in Nashville where people aren't paying as much attention to find him all the way down there at the 17th best odds. It's a little strange for me, considering how good he was last year. The only, I will say, the one hesitation with Forsberg is it was a contract year. And we know how

these things work. He gets paid. I would not be shocked if there was a little bit of a drop off from him this year after he gets that big deal that he was trying to get. So that would be the only hesitation on Forksburg, but those are two guys that I really like when you look at some players that maybe aren't the favorites, but I think there's a chance when you look at the underlying analytics. Are there anyone that stick out to you guys? Well, first of all, I'm going to second you on Connor McDavid. Yeah. Because Connor McDavid has just had a whole summer and maybe more going back in the last

season of hearing, oh, is Austin Matthews now the best player? Has Austin Matthews taking the crown? And guys like Connor McDavid, the competitiveness, you've got to think that he's sitting there going, yeah, I'll show you who the best player is. Let's go. Let's see. So I like that. I'm going to go not that much further down the list.

But pretty decent odds. 25 to 1. You mentioned Philip Forsberg, the contract year. How about David Pasternak in a contract year? And this is a guy 25 to 1 odds. He's, I think, 8. He's listed just behind Chris Kreider just ahead of Nathan McKinnon. This is a guy who won the Rock of Richard just two years ago.

Yeah. So, you know, this is, there's a lot of. of guys that I look down and I go, boy, you know, I like that name. I like this, but, but it would need a job. You would need to see the performance kick up. And that happens, right? I mean, nobody would have had Chris Kreider on their list last year. And yet, you know, it's, he took a run at it. But David Pastor Nikes done it already. And he needs the contract. You know, there's some to talk about it. Is he happy in Boston? Is he not? This is an all-out season for the Bruins. David Creachie's going to be back. He gives an option to, another option to play with.

If I was going for, you know, if you're saying I got a bet on, again, not a huge long shot, but 25 to 1. Solid. I throw a couple of bucks down on that and, you know, at the end of the year, that could come in. But what? Marshand is out for a bit, right, to start the season. Does that bother you guys a bet on Pasternak or no? So somebody's got to score. Yeah.

That's it, right? It's a double-edged sort. On the one hand, the Bruins become less dangerous. you know, with all their injuries, right? Marchand, McAvoy, and all those guys. But also, maybe that means a little more ice time. Maybe that means that he was already getting power play time, but maybe, you know, and plus it's also a new coach.

You never know. New coaches come in. Sometimes they move guys around. They get different impressions, guys, different roles. Sometimes I could nudge a guy down, but might nudge him back up too. And, you know, Pastor Nek's also been pretty beat up the last couple of years. Says he's healthy now. You know, everyone's, everyone says they're healthy to start the year.

We'll see how that lasts. But that's, I don't know. That was the name that jumped out of me as a guy that, you know, you don't see a lot of raining, or not raining, but former Roger Richard winters that are that are sitting there at decent odds for you. You know, for me, it's Kyle Connor. Like, I'm a big Kyle Conner. I think he's got a career, like his career, career shooting percentage is around 15%. And he's, he's really. underrated, possibly because of the market he plays in.

I feel like the Jets are going through, as Sean talked about this earlier, we talked about peaceful transitions of power. I don't think that was a necessarily peaceful transition of power taking the sea off of Blake Wheeler. But something's happened in Winnipeg where I think they're ready to hand the keys to Kyle Conner. And I think it's almost like he's ready to take over and be like the face of that franchise.

I like him. And if you're asking me, what is he, 12 to 1 here, you know, he's just outside. of that top four. He's just the next guy after Ovechkin, McDavid, Drysidal, and Matthews. I like Kyle Conner. This guy shoots the puck in an elite manner that not a lot of guys can for five, six years, have a 15% shooting percentage. I think if he increases his shot volume a little bit, hangs around 15%. I think 50 goals is a realistic possibility for this guy. And again, another situation with the new coach coming in and, you know, Rick bonus, I don't think he's coming in with a lot of patience.

So I said this week, Winnipeg feels like something that could go really off the rails, but maybe it goes the other way. You know, maybe they weren't a well-coached team last year, I don't think. So maybe this is, maybe Rick Bonas can get a few things figured out. To bring it back around to the first guy we mentioned Connor McDavid. So Kyle, I agree with Ian. Kyle Connor solid at 12 to 1, Posternak, 25 to 1 or 25 to 1. McDavid is 9 to 1.

And like so so most of these guys, I think we're saying, look, they were close to Matthews. They may not be as good of a goal score as Matthews, but, but they could have a big season. They can do this. Connor McDavid is better than Austin Matthews. And last year, he had more expected goals than Austin Matthews. Matthews just had a freak year where everything I mean. I mean, chances are Matthews is not going to shoot at, like he's going to shoot a high percentage, but it's not going to be as high as last year.

I feel like McDavid should almost be the favorite. And the fact that Matthews is only two and a half to one and McDavid is nine to one. Like he's almost up there. Like Kyle Connor is barely higher odds than McDavid. Like that's, that's crazy to me. I know we see McDavid as a playmaker and he's got dry side. He's not even the favorite to score the most goals on his own team, dry saddle is above him. But to me, it's just, I can't believe he's nine to one and Matthews is two and a half to one.

Maybe Matthews is just too low. Those odds are just a little like they're just like, you can't bet on Austin Matthews at two and a half to one. That's crazy. but yeah, I think we're talking about all these guys, like maybe overperforming. McDavid just has to do what he's supposed to and he'll lead the league. Yeah, that's it, right? You typically look at these things and you go, okay, you know, if this guy, this long shot comes through, people are going to go, wow. And then there's always a few where you go, you know, if this long shot comes through, people are going to go, oh, yeah, why didn't I see that?

And Connor McDavid would be there. Can I throw one more name at you guys? Yeah. And this one's a little bit tricky, but it's way down the list, 35 to 1. Jason Robertson, 40 goals last year, young guy still on the aging curve on his way up. I think the reason you're getting 35 to 1 there is a contract situation. We obviously don't know if he's going to be in the lineup opening night. We don't know if he's going to be in the lineup anytime soon.

That feels to me like a number that the second that news goes out that he's signed, that number comes down. So is this a chance if you're somebody like me who goes, hey, this stuff almost always gets worked out. They'll figure something out. He'll come in. He won't miss a, he's not going to, he'll be there opening night. He won't miss a beat. This is a chance maybe to get more value than you would normally get on a, what, 22 year old who's already got a 40 goal season in his pocket and is getting better. I totally agree. The only, kind of like I said with Forsberg, I have some hesitation because of the contract year. The one thing that would worry me about Robertson is if he

signs the day before the regular season, like I, I've only, covering the Golden Knights, I've covered one holdout. It was Shay Theodore. And he was slow to start that year. Like, he just wasn't himself, learning the new system, just didn't look like himself. And Dallas has a new coach with Pete DeBore. If you got him to score the most goals in the league in 10 games in, he doesn't have one, you'd be very, very concerned. So I think a slow start with the holdout would be a little bit of a worry. But I agree with you that you're getting better off. And here's the other thing. If I get them at 35 to 1 before the contract sign, I don't want to see an eight-year contract. I want to see a two-year prove a contract.

Prove it, yeah. I'm betting on myself contract. Screw you. You're going to pay me $12 million in two years because I'm going to win the rock of Richard. That's what I'm looking for. You always feel better betting on a guy when he's also betting on himself, right? Yep.

Exactly. Yep. Yeah, well said. Hey, Jesse, this was great. As always, thanks for dropping by the podcast. And we'll hit you up again next Thursday. Awesome. Thanks for having me, guys.

Thanks, Jesse. All right. Always great to get Granger to drop by, and that certainly is a fun conversation to have about the Rocket Richard Richard Trophy. I want to talk about your article you wrote earlier this week, the 22 names to watch in the NHL this season. I want to zero in on a couple of them.

Now, I thought for sure, when I saw this, 22 interesting names, I'm like, damn, Matt Murray is going to be the most watch goalie in the NHL, and yet he doesn't make your list. So maybe explain to me why, You didn't go with Matt Murray, but you did go with somebody else from Toronto. Yeah. So, to be clear, this is, it's, it's 22 names, but it's really 32.

In fact, it's 33 this year. Yeah. Because I pick one guy from each team. I build a roster of forwards and fencedmen, coach GM, goalies of 22 names. And then I have the Arnold will mention. So everybody only gets one, one name. Because otherwise, we all know. The team that we cheer for is the most interesting team in the league and has a half dozen fascinating names.

Every fan thinks that. I don't need to write a 20,000 word piece. So one name per team. And yeah, absolutely Matt Murray could be there. I think you could also say in Toronto, Austin Matthews would be there because we're now into the contract speculation era. After this is the year, next summer, he's eligible for an extension. So maybe, you know, he put him there.

Maybe he put Shelton Keith there, a coach with a lot to prove. At the end of the day, I think there were so much. many pieces in in Toronto that it they all filter up to the same guy and that's Kyle Duba's and that's why I chose Kyle Dubas as my GM for this team because boy we talk about DJ Smith maybe being on the hot seat the seat is very very hot in Toronto for Kyle Dubez he has basically um almost bet his career or at least bet his job on this version of the Maple Leafs that he's put together um and And on the goaltending, specifically, because that's what we're all waiting to see what he did.

And go out and get Matt Murray, Eli Samsonov. Boy, it could work. They both look good in the preseason so far. But that is, to me, a very fascinating bet to make, not to mention how the other storyline in Toronto for me is, Kyle DeBis has bent over backwards for the stars on this team. Time after time, not only in terms of the contracts they got, how he speaks about them publicly, how they're offended, how every year, every single year, the annual playoff collapse and Kyle Dubus gets up there and says, we're not trading anyone, we're not breaking up the court, everybody, you know, sleep easy. It's going to be fine. We're going to come back.

We believe in these guys. He's hit that message over and over and over again. And if the Leafs go and win the Stanley Cup this year, everyone's going to point at that and say, that is, that's what made this team champions, is that the GM believed in them. He didn't panic. He never made the move for his sake of making a move. And he stuck with them. And they paid him off. and they paid him back. Or we're going to look at it and go, they never did pay him back. And he was so loyal to them, but when his job was on the line, they didn't have it for him back. I just, I find it very interesting. And yeah, I'm a Leif's fan, so I think everything about the Leafs is, oh, so fascinating.

But I think if you're, even if you're a fan of another team, you've got to be watching this situation play out and say, you know, this guy. I like Kyle Dubas a lot as a GM, smart, smart guy. But you only get so many kicks at the can at a team. And it hasn't happened in Toronto yet. And if it doesn't happen this year in the playoffs, then I think you're going to see changes in Toronto. And then who knows where it goes from there with extensions and everything else. Boy, that could go a lot of different directions.

One name that really jumped out at me that I wasn't expecting. You know, like I said, I was expecting Matt Murray. I was expecting certainly like, you know, Kachuk and Godro and, you know, those were ones that you were expecting. Adam Fantilli didn't see this one coming. And I think Adam Fantilli is not a name that I would say is a household name for average hockey fans. So explain to our listeners why Adam Fantilli made your list of the 22 most intriguing names for the upcoming NHL season. Yeah.

And you didn't see it coming partly because I cheated to put him on the list. It's supposed to be, you know, guys in the NHL. And if you're sitting there going, Adam Ventilly, what NHL team is he on? Well, he's not on any yet. This is a guy. He's a college hockey prospect who's in this year's draft. And what is interesting about him is that you've got a situation where you have to look at the top of the draft next year. Forget about the quality of the draft overall.

But at the very top of the draft, we all know that this is the Connor Bader. year. And you've got a guy who is, by all accounts, is another guy that is in that Connor McDavid type of can't, not just can't miss prospect, but a franchise altering prospect. So needless to say, we got a bunch of teams that are tanking. We know that. We look at Chicago, we look at Arizona. Maybe there's a few other teams you would say that are tanking. But But here's the deal. If you tank in the NHL, we've got a draft lottery. It doesn't guarantee you anything. In fact, we all know that you basically got 20% odds. You finished dead last, you've got 20% odds of getting that number one overall pick. That's it. Now, is it 20% odd

at the next Connor McDavid worth throwing a season away? Yeah, maybe. Obviously, some teams have figured that out. But the question becomes, what if you don't get them? Okay. Well, the number two prospect this year is a Russian kid, Matt Bay Mishkov. And he is one of these guys who is in any other year would be a slammed up number one. Scouts rave above this guy.

You know, he's Kirill Kaprizov plus as a prospect. Yeah, he's Russian, so there's some questions about when he come over and his commitments to KCHL and things like that. But scouts are drooling over this guy. This is the classic Jack Eichel of the Connor McDavid driver.

Right. He's the second can't miss guy. Well, you think back to that Connor McDavid draft, right? Back then, if you finished dead last, you could only move down one slot. So you knew if you got, if you finished dead last, you were getting Connor McDavid 20% chance or Jack Eichael. Hey, you got a sure thing, franchise player at that point, we thought. So what happened in 2015? The Sabres and the Coyotes and other teams out of their mind tankathon. I mean, to an embarrassing level, right?

We all remember the Coyotes and Sabers play. and Sabres fans cheering against their own team. And it just got completely ridiculous. And the reason it did, it wasn't because of Connor McDavid. It was because of Connor McDavid and Jack Eichol. It was the fact that if you finished last, you were guaranteed an elite blue chip franchise altering prospect. And so, yeah, of course, teams were going crazy to finish last.

Okay, well, now let's go ahead to this year. Draft lottery system has changed. After that McDavid Eichol fiasco, they changed it so you could drop down three spots. So you were, you know, even though Colorado, they would drop, Colorado finished dead last, they dropped down to number four. Still got Kilmacar, but they dropped down to number four. We saw other teams do that.

Well, they changed it again recently. Now it's, you can only drop two spots. You can only drop to number three. So if you finish dead last this year, you've got a 20% chance at Connor Bedard. You've got about a 50% chance of picking top two. So you're getting Bard or you're getting Mischop. Is there a third prospect?

because you're guaranteed if you finish in dead last, a top three pick. So the question becomes, is there a third prospect? That's where Adam Finnelly comes in. A lot of people are saying this guy is right up there, not necessarily with Connor Bedard, but he's in that same stratosphere. He's another franchise player. He's another Superster. He's another can't miss.

Now, we don't know. He's a university guy. We got to see it this year. But if he is playing out of his mind this year, and now it goes from being two can't miss franchise guys to, to three in a league where the last place team is guaranteed a top three pick, that changes the equation completely. And I think that is where we go from, hey, a couple of these teams are clearly tanking to

this is getting silly. You know, remember the Sabres trading all their goalies away at the deadline? And you're like, what are they doing? Yeah, they're trying to lose is what's happening. This is where you go from, hey, maybe they're not icing their best team to, you know, are they just going to start shooting the puck in their own net? So that's why I'm so fascinated by Adam Ventilly. or some other prospect who might jump up.

But, you know, it sounds like Baderd and Michkoff are basically sure things locked in. If a third name emerges, Ventili is the most likely, it changes the equation completely. And we might see some really ridiculous things happening at the bottom of the standings this year. So that's what I've got. I've got an eye on it. And I'll leave it to you whether your team chaos and you want to see that happen or whether your team integrity and you don't want to see it become a joke. but I think we're one player away from getting into that territory

and Fintilly could be that guy. I think we're always team chaos though, aren't we on this show? Is that what we always want to see? Right up until team chaos is playing against my team. And then I, I'm not such a fan. Yeah, good point. Hey, let's open up the mailbag, shall we, including a voicemail. A reminder, 845445-8449 is the number for a voicemail.

The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com. Jared took us up on the phone option here. And Jared wants to talk a little bit about Bruce Boudreau and his impact on the Vancouver Canucks. Here is Jared about Vancouver. Hey, Jared calling Big Canucks fan. Just heard you guys talking about whether the Canucks are going to make the playoffs

or not make the playoffs. And I never hear you guys talk about their record since Bruce has taken over. I do believe it's about 3215 and 10. 10, which I think was second best in the Pacific Division. So I think that has a lot to do with it. What do you guys think? Screw the green section.

Just Boudreau. I think they're in no problem. Thanks, guys. All right. Sean, so Jared wants to know where's the love for Bruce Boudreau? 3215 and 10 down the stretch with Vancouver. They were just kind of in the periphery of the playoff picture. Obviously, they started out.

they were 8 and 15 under Travis Green, I believe. Bruce comes in. We all know the Bruce, there it is, and, you know, the fun chance. Certainly, if you're talking about coaches in the kind of salary cap era who have consistently had an impact on their teams, Bruce Boudreau is number one. Like, no matter where he goes, he finds instant success. His teams are perennially in the playoffs. So are we under, as we look at the Pacific Division and people talk about, well, it's got to be, you know,

Vegas is going to bounce back. Calgary's a sure thing and Edmonton's a sure thing and, you know, Colorado, obviously. What do we think? What are we thinking here on Bruce Boudreau and the Vancouver Canucks? It's a fair point by Jared. I love Bruce Brudrow. I've been a Boudreau guy forever. And I was so happy to see him get another shot in Vancouver and to have the success that he had.

Now, that haven't been said, why are we not considering the Canucks? a playoff lock given their record under Bruce. Two things. First of all, as we kind of touched on when we were talking about the senators, there is a danger in taking a team that is out of the playoff hunt or at least largely out of it. And then looking at what they do in the second half and getting overly excited about it. We ran into that problem with the senators for a couple of years. The Sabres are another team where we keep getting tricked by that.

Now, with the Canucks, we're not talking about a good 20-game stretch. We're talking about 60 games. So it's a little bit different, but I still, you know, I pump the brakes a little bit on just taking that record and extrapolating it out to a full 80 games. The other thing, though, that gives me some pause is the fact that, hey, I'm a big Boudreau guy. I believe in the guy. Do the Canucks believe in the guy? Because remember, there was that whole weird off-season thing where, you know, he had the option. And they were like, we're not giving you an extension.

Even though you did a great job, even though you racked up all those wins, almost got us in the playoffs. Yeah. No, we're not going to give you an accident. And in fact, if you want to go look for a job somewhere else, go ahead. And if you want to come back, we'll have you back. But man, the Canucks did not seem all that eager to hitch their wagon to Bruce Boudreau. And I don't understand why that is, but I'm also sitting on my couch out here in Ottawa. I'm not there in Vancouver. And there was something going on that for whatever reason, they just didn't seem to believe quite as much. So look, I think, Vancouver, you look at their ceiling, certainly it's well into the playoff picture. I think they've got a real good shot at making the playoffs. And I think Bruce Boudreau is part of that. This is a guy who gets teams into the playoffs, his whole career. In fact, he gets teams to the top of their division. I think he's a fantastic coach, and I'm rooting for him.

But I'm not quite as sold as Jared seems to be that this is some sort of lock based on the success that he had last year. it partly because the Canucks themselves didn't seem to buy into that. But I can see a scenario where Thatcher Demko plays out of his mind, plays 55, 60 games and is a, you know, Vezna Trophy candidate. Like I think he's that good. Like when he's at his best, he's that good. So I can see a path to it for sure. But man, I'm with you.

They're not a, they're certainly not a lock. Yeah. But they're in that. And the counter argument would be Thatcher Dempco. played pretty close to out of his mind last year and still wasn't able to get to get them in. But look, I mean, yeah, it's not hard with with Vancouver, you know, Elias Pedersen didn't have the year he wanted to have last year. He gets back to superstar mode.

It was only a couple years ago. I mean, we thought this guy was right there in the absolute lead conversation. Quinn Hughes takes, takes that leap, you know, two years ago. We were arguing, Quinn Hughes versus Kail McCar. We don't argue that anymore. If we're arguing about it again at the end of the year, then, yeah, Vancouver is. is back in the playoffs. Not trading Miller sent a very clear signal that this team's trying to win right now.

So there's a lot of indicators. I like Vancouver as a playoff team quite a lot. But again, not so much that I'm just going to take the Boudreau record and put it over 80 games and say that's what this team is. Okay. Let's read a couple of emails here to round out the show again, the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. Richard writes in, last week a listener asked about PIMS, PIMS, P-I-M, and Sean answered that the acronym stands for penalties in minutes. I always thought this was penalty infraction minutes,

and a quick Google search backs me up on this, though I did not use the most authoritative results. So my question for Ian is, can you double-check this as an impartial third party? To Sean, I ask you this. How will you rectify this erroneous misguidance of your beloved and trusting fan base? how will you make amends? Ian, how many infraction minutes has Sean incurred? So I'll tell you what, Sean, I looked it up. I think Richard is right. Like, now here's the funny thing. The NHL doesn't seem to have, like NHL.com doesn't seem to have an official list of acronyms. But like Wikipedia lists it

as penalty infraction minutes. This, I had no idea. I'm not going to lie. I had no idea. First of all, Wikipedia. Yeah, I know. All right. Wikipedia mentions that at the beginning, but then click on the NHL section of Wikipedia. All right? I know. I know.

Scroll down and it says it's penalties in minutes. Look, here's my question. Have you ever heard it called penalty infraction minutes? I never had. But I also had never Googled it. And now I've Googled it. Yeah, but this is like, I mean, if you Google something, you're doing, okay, this is like you're doing your own research territory.

You start with the answer. And then you're like, yeah, I found this YouTube video from this dude in his basement saying it's been... I got to be honest. I never heard this term before. I've looked it up. It does appear to be a thing that is certainly more common than I heard. It seems to be in use in different places. But even if it was originally in some archaic thing, the penalty in fraction minutes,

Everybody calls a penalty in a minute. So I don't know. I'm not sure I'm conceding defeat on this. But then again, I wasn't asked to. This listener is very clearly asking you to step in as the official as the arbiter. You're Larry Bertuzi here. So I got to, I'm going to sit back and await judgment. Wait a minute. If I'm if I'm the arbitrator from the Lindross case, do I just say the both of you have won? Is that how we're? Yeah, that could that could be it. Because he's, look, I'm Googling penalty and fractals. a minute's right here. I've never heard of any of these websites that are coming up. But what is, what are these sites? Coaching Kids withazette.com? Like, that's not, your full Canadian, I just came out with a Z. Yeah, you're right. It did. This is, this is, this is, these are fake website. In fact, I think this guy went and made these websites and then throw them up there. Richard, maybe. And anybody has the ability to amend Wikipedia, right?

That's absolutely true. Hey, wait a second. Let's see the last time this was updated by a Richard. Anyway, so let us know. And maybe we need to reach out to the NHL on this and say, what is the official abbreviation for PIMS? Like what does the acronym stand for? But even that, there's the official and then there's what everybody calls it.

All right. So let's not get it. I'm opening my mind up to the fact that penalty infraction minutes. could be. Like, penalty and fraction minutes is still awkward, but it makes sense. Penalty and infraction mean the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. So we don't need both of those words in there. Exactly. You're exactly right. ATM machine. Okay, one more from Jason. With the news that Zadano Chara has retired, Joe Thornton, is the only guy left from the 90s who hasn't officially retired? Are there any pro athletes in the major four sports that are older than you

guys, if not who is the last one? I'm 37. I'm still good. I'm sure I still have another decade with Tom Brady hanging around. Jason throws in a go Giants for no reason. That's fine. Dallas beat them. Okay. So here's the thing. I'm 45. I'm the same age as Tom Brady. I'm hanging on here. Wait a second. Wait a second. Like, when are the birthdays? You're not the same age. You weren't born on the same day. Are you older than them or not? I think I'm five months older, maybe four months older than Tom Brady? All right. I don't know. Does that count within? Yes. Absolutely.

If we were filling out a form today, Tom Brady and I would both write down 45. Now, are you a year older than me? I am. Yeah. Oh, boy. So that's it. You don't have anybody left. I don't think so. I mean, I'm trying to think is there, like, are there any, like, relief pitchers in baseball? They're, they're camp. Tom Brady's the oldest. Yeah. Guy out there. Other than, like, Yager, guys like that are still kicking around in other pro-league.

But in the big four, like, dude, there are coaches and GMs younger than us. Like that, that's when it really twists the knife when you're... No, the thing that hurts the most is being at the NHL draft and now you see the families, you're like, oh, boy, his parents don't look that old and you realize, nah, this is what they've always looked like. And now we just look the same as them. And we think that they don't look old. But we really hurt. You might even have caught it. When I was talking about Kyle Dubas, there was a point where I don't know if I paused.

or something. And the reason I did is because I was going to refer to him as this kid. And then I was like, I can't say that. Like this guy is a veteran. He's been around forever. And I'm 10 years older than the GM of my favorite team. What's called? 36. Something like that. 36. Yeah. Which isn't. Oh, man. Don't don't send us stuff like this. Okay. Don't look. I've got two rules. Don't tell me I'm wrong. And don't tell me I'm old. Okay. We went over to this week. We both. Both of the emails. Exactly. So, oh, man.

Hey, let's wrap up the show real quick. I want to ask you this question. I have no idea the backstory. Maybe you know it or maybe a listener can help us out. September 26, 1995, the Boston Bruins played their final game ever at the old Boston Garden, one of the great venues of, you know, the 20th century. The Bruins then moved into what is now TD Garden. I think it was called Fleet Center back then.

But here's my question. Why on earth did the Bruins choose to play their final game ever at the hallowed sacred ground of Boston Garden in a preseason game? Yeah. They played the habs in a preseason game. What the hell? That's weird. And I have no memory of it.

And I'd love to hear from Bruins fans if they remember that. I think it's weird. Well, not that I think it's weird. I understand why it happens. But I don't like it when teams play their first games in a new stadium as a preseason game. And then we have to do like. the first of, like a week later, we got to pretend that that's, to do your last game, especially in 95, because that would have been, what, the year before the forum closed in Montreal.

They all kind of close in a tight window there, right? Yeah, but I feel like Boston went first because then Montreal closed and Montreal does the great torch passing ceremony. Yeah, that fantastic thing. And then a few years later, Maple League Guards closes and they do like their, they do like the off-brand version of that, except they bring out like 700 players. that have played for the Leafs and then you're just like, geez, like, I don't think Lou Franchisgetti needs to be here, but,

um, but whatever, uh, I'm thinking like Chicago's last game was in, in the playoffs. Like that is what you run into. At the old Chicago stadium. Yeah.

Like, because Montreal and Toronto, right, they changed midway through the year. Midseason. Yep. So you knew like this game is the last game at this arena. If you do it at the end of a season,

then yeah, you get into the playoffs and it was the Leafs, beat the, the Blackhawks shut down the old stadium. But the last game was a, preseason game. Why? I don't know.

Was the new place not ready and they didn't, I don't know. Yeah, was it not ready? Was it not like, did it not get a good ending in, I mean, I know 94, 95 was the lockout year. Maybe they were worried the season was in jeopardy or something and they weren't going to get a last game, but I mean, you're not doing preseason schedules at then. So what's the story behind that? I would love to know.

I know. And usually we're kind of the history. Yeah, we're kind of the guy. that know the history, but this one is a legit headscratcher for me. So yeah, help us out. I guess I'm just not old enough to remember. That's right. You were only like, what, 20 years old?

Shut up. Shut up. All right. Let's leave it there. I want to thank everybody for joining us. We'll get you again next Thursday. You can, as always, leave us an email. Just don't tell Sean he's wrong. Don't tell him he's old, but you can hit us up Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com.

Voicemail 845, 445, 845, 8459. Not a subscriber with us. You can fix that by joining us at the Athleticohm. dot com slash hockey show and get an annual subscription for a dollar a month for the first six months.