The Athletic Hockey Show - Can the Rangers and Sabres nightmare seasons be salvaged?

Episode Date: December 11, 2024

Sean, Frank and Sean discuss the struggles of the New York Rangers and Buffalo Sabres, with the two New York State teams in the bottom third of the NHL standings. They comment on the 'soft tampering' charge from the Senators towards the Rangers regarding Brady Tkachuk, they take a closer look at the revamped goaltending in Colorado, and the NHL's hottest team, the Los Angeles Kings and if Andrew Brunette will be the next coach to be fired.Hosts: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeWith: Frankie CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What up, what up? This is the Athletic Hockey Show, Wednesday edition, two Sean's and a Frank. I'm Sean Gentile. He's Sean McIntyreux. Frankie Carado's over there somewhere. How are we doing, boys? All good over here.

What's happening in New York these days? What's happening in the state of New York? I think we need to start out by saying that pursuant to our topic a couple weeks ago, But when I believe the title on the podcast was, Are the Rangers Bluffing when it came to trade, you know, rumors for Chris Kreider and Jacob Truva? They weren't.

We can say that decisively now. Chris Jury was being serious. Jacob Truba is, you know, it's a big news last week. Obviously, we don't need to rehash that. He's in Anaheim after a little bit of drama. But I think the on-ice product for the Rangers, it's clear that it hasn't immediately rebounded. It's safe to say that Jacob Truba wasn't the only problem with the New York Rangers now that we have a few days worth a sample size to go off of, right?

No. And apologies to Jacob Truba who, like, listened to the podcast and then unpacked all this stuff. It's like, all right, it's okay. We're not going anywhere. Those three guys said Chris Jury's full of beans. So we don't need to move. Yeah. And who would have thought that you get rid of Jacob Truba and, hey, everything was supposed to be good?

right? Like you got rid of a guy. Doesn't make them a better team, not having Jacob Truba. Like, there has to be, there has to be at least one more move, maybe a couple more moves. Now you have cap space at least. But they're not a better team today than they were last week before that trade. And they're not playing like they're a better team either. I think that was something that got lost in the sauce with the Truba discussion is that, is he a first pair of defenseman? Absolutely not. Is he a second pair defenseman? Absolutely not. Is he a viable third pair guy?

He's not an $8 million defenseman. That's what it boils down to. That's the problem. Yep. So you bring up victory. That's crucial, right? I mean, you have to evaluate a player based on their cap hit in this NHL. But when the puck drops, it doesn't matter how much that guy is making.

If he's not there, like, you're missing that. Correct. I mean, how did they look against the penguins? I didn't sit and watch that game. The game that they won. The reviews were not great, but two points is two points. I thought they looked better than what I'd seen from them over the course of the preceding couple weeks.

Even how the day had gone. Like, this had all gone through on the Friday. There was reason for optimism. And then the next two games happened. I mean, the Monday night game, the Chicago game, was flat out brutal. Well, that's the one that sticks out to me. Like, you got a Chicago team that everyone knows is bad. and your GM has done this big shake-up, if you want to call it that.

And then your best players early in that game, they go back behind their own net, and they just puke all over themselves to quote Marty San Luis from earlier this season against Washington. And it's like, that is the New York Rangers in a nutshell this year. The best players have not been nearly as good enough or close to what they can be. and especially defensively, and you lose a game to Chicago. And now you look at it, you're like, like, where do you, where do you kind of go from here? Because, yeah, you made your trade in Truba.

Great. Like, is it, is there a forward move that you make? Like, you have cap space. And they're not, clearly not shy about being bold and not shy about being loud about what they want to do. They're doing the thing now where they're losing games in different ways, which is always something that, uh, That seems like a... How many red flags were the Rangers flown over the course of the last two months? But that feels like another one is like, yeah, you lose 2-1 to Chicago.

Okay. They got seven hung on them by the Seattle Cracken, which is like pretty tough to do. And they were winning. That's a bad, that is a bad offensive hockey team there, man. And, you know, part of it's quick, sure, but it's not just him. They're picking and choosing from the worst ways to play hockey. it feels like on a given night. Anytime that happens,

I think you're in even bigger trouble than you think. I would love to know what the meetings are like right now in that room with Lafayolette as the coach. Because obviously, like, he's not an idiot. He's been around a long time. And of course, him, like any coach has an expiration date. Like, is his expiration date quicker than some other coaches? For sure. Like, we have seen that where whatever it is,

the message goes stale or the team, you know, doesn't play the way they're supposed to. And he ends up being the. the victim of it. But like every coach has that. His day usually comes sooner than some other coaches. But I would love to know, like, how many different ways he can say the same thing. Because like, like you just said, they're finding different ways to lose. He's trying to hammer home the same message, but he's got to try a million different ways to get it across. Like, I don't know, I don't know how many tricks you'd have up your sleeve as a coach before you just say, like, these guys literally do not want to do it. And I don't know how to get them to do it.

And this is the part of watching a good team unravel where it feels like we would have seen the coach fired by now. And every time that happens, every time a good coach gets fired because the team just isn't responding anymore, what do we always say? Right? We always go, man, that's the easy way. Fire this good coach. Why not hold the players accountable? Why not make it? But that seems to be what they're trying to do with New York.

They're actually trying to say, no, it's not, we're not running the coach out the door. We're going to move players. We're going to move our captain. We're going to put Chris Kreider on the block. We're going to put whoever else on the block. In one sense, you want to applaud it, but it's not working. And, boy, I, you always want to be careful in our jobs, you know, trying to say, like, well, here's what the fans think. because, you know, we get, we get access to certain, you know, on social media and in the

comment section and however else, but it's, it's not, it's not the whole fan base. But, man, of the Ranger fans I see, the way they've turned on Mika Zabanajad, is a story for me. I mean, you talked about that, that mess behind the net. Because even before the season, like, just before the season, I, because of something else I was working on, I had like a little, I threw a little poll up on Twitter between Mark Schifley and Mika Zabandad. And as you'd expect, both of the hometown sides were picking their guy and defending their guy.

I don't, I think if I did that now, I don't think a lot of Rangers fans would be talking about how great many years ago. Like running laps around him. I watched that Jets game last night, not to get off topic for the Rangers, but I watched that Jets game last night. And Mark Sheifley looks like a guy who in a seven game playoff series can go head to head with the number one center. You know, like he's had to do it against McKinnon, Eichel, like, if it, you know, the chips fall this year and he's got to play Dallas and its hints, I think he's better equipped to win that matchup this time around than he ever has been. And if you bring that back to the New York Rangers, Mika Zabandajad couldn't be less equipped to win that matchup when it comes to who he's going to have to go against in the metro or, you know, if some miracle happens at this point and they got to play someone in the Atlantic. Like, I just, there's, there's no way he can win that number one center battle with the way he's been playing. He has been able to in the past, but not this version of him.

Yeah, he has, but also that's been an issue for them. And we talk about the playoff problems that they've run into over the last few years, certainly last season, where Zabinajad just kind of, he runs out, he runs out a runway, you know, like you go up against Florida. And then all of a sudden, the guy who's good enough to be the top center on a. really good team, you know, that's, that's his, that's the ceiling. Like, his ceiling does not involve winning, you know, being the guy in a playoff series against, you know, the Alexander Barkovs of the world. And that's, and that's a problem. And I, it's, it's funny to bring up Winnipeg because Shifley is a guy certainly who, you know, Sean, I think that's, I think those guys are of a type at the start of the season. They're the, they're the average one C who are playing on a team that probably

needs a little bit more, given their aspirations. They're both the classic guy who's a great second center. But if he's your first center, is that good enough in a world where you got to go through a Barkov or a McDavid or, you know, go on down the list? I don't want to like, I don't want to sit here and assume that every player that didn't make the four nation face off roster is going to be motivated in some particular way because that's just guessing. Like, we don't, we don't know that.

But Mark Schifley is a dude who I think is wired in such a way where you can imagine that may be given him a little bit of extra juice down the stretch here because. No, I feel like it's almost, it's almost like this kind of Mark Schifley should have happened already. Like it feels like if you go back, I don't know, probably when I'm still in the league, let's go back like eight years or so. It was like Mark Schifley was that next wave of like Canadian centermen who, was supposed to be the brilliant two-way guy. And somewhere along the way, I feel like he paced himself,

you know, to be more on the offensive side of the puck and kind of paste himself defensively to set himself up more for offensive looks. And, you know, I don't want to be caught doing too much because I don't want this to take away from that. I don't want defensive, you know, responsibility to take away from offense. And I feel like this year, it looks very different for him. It looks like he's not pacing himself. And in fact, he's been. benefiting way more offensively. But it's almost like this should, this evolution probably should have happened.

But hey, it's here. If you're Winnipeg, you're happy about it. If you're New York, you look at Zabanajad and you're like, can you do that? Like, can you find a little more defensively because that will lead to less issues for us because of the matchups you have to play because of the ice time you have to play? And hopefully more offense, just like Shifley is having that kind of success right now. I just want to point out, Sean, you just use the words Mark Shifley is a dude.

And I just want to point out, that was not an official verdict. That was a passing comment. Don't get excited at Jets fans. We haven't done that. But I feel like right now Mika Zabanajet is not a dude. No, no, no. And we're going to, I mean, look, man, we know that the Rangers are willing to push buttons. I think that's kind of what it comes back to.

Like, they hit a big one last week with Trubo. We're sitting here circling around the fact. Like, is it is it time for Lavalette? it not. I'm interested to see what happens based on their next game, which also, we talked about the state of New York at the top of the show. They are playing the Buffalo Sabres, who if you're looking for a spot where things are going worse than they are in Manhattan, I think that qualifies in Buffalo. They've lost seven straight. They blew a four-goal lead to Colorado, and then they had a three-two-over. overtime loss against the Jets. And then on Friday, GM Kevin Adams has a somewhat bizarre news conference.

Like, with defensive, I think, is probably, that's the word that Matt Fairburn used. And I think that's, I think that's fair. And I also think it's, um, it's gracious because I, because I would say that it was, that it was weird where, where he ripped, you know, where he says that Buffalo is not a destination city, uses that as some degree of excuse making for the way things have gone there over the last little bit. We don't have palm trees. We have high taxes, says Kevin Adams, which has led to some funny scenes

at Savers games over the last little bit. They have now lost seven in a row and they are playing the Rangers in their next game. So someone has to win. I'm interested in seeing what happens based on the result of this in either direction because it's crazy.

Just a couple things, okay, on that whole ordeal, whatever you want to call that. Buffalo doesn't have palm trees, sure. the Buffalo Bills also don't have palm trees. And they're a very good team in the same city that pay the same taxes. And you know what happens?

People want to come play with Josh Allen because he's a hell of a quarterback. And that's a good team that has a chance to win. Kevin Adams said that. As part of that should be, and it's sort of been separated from it. I do think, I don't defend Kevin Adams a lot as far as the moves that he's made or not made. although I think he's limited by his ownership. But in this particular case, I think there's a perception that he was just making,

like I can't do my job because we don't have palm trees. So what do you expect for me? And he made the point that, hey man, as soon as you start winning, it was essentially what he was saying, then you become a destination. And it's like,

well, dude, that's kind of your job. That's kind of your job. And just like it's kind of your job to figure out how to aptly spend the money that you create off of the Jeff Skinner buyout? If he's allowed to spend it. Uh-huh.

Correct. And that's what it comes back to. Like, everyone looks at the cap space that was created with Skinner and says, like, what are you doing? Well, you can't spend money that you're not allowed to spend. Here's the Buffalo Sabres kind of summed up for you. They're playing against Detroit. They get Huso yanked from the game.

And Sebastian Cosa, the kid, who has spent time in the East Coast League, he's big part of the Red Wings future. He's going to be the goalie for them at some point. He gets thrown into his first NHL game, cold to start the second period. And the Buffalo Sabres, you would think, should be all over that. We have to pepper this kid, make him uncomfortable. How many times, guys, have you seen a young goalie make his NHL debut? And you're like, man, that didn't go well for him. Like, I can think of, I can think of a few off the top of my head where it's just, it's hard, it's overwhelming. Those are the ideal conditions. to get to a guy like that, what do they do?

They get 14 shots on net the rest of the game, and they lose the game, and Detroit wins. And the kid is like, you know, he looked a little shaky, but they didn't take advantage of it. And ultimately he gets the win. It's like that is the most, one of the most Sabres things that could have happened this year, where you get handed it on a platter and you still can't finish the job. And the stat that I had a bunch of Sabres fans throw at me, that I, I legitimately, legitimately did not believe.

This is the fifth time this year that the Buffalo Sabres have chased an opposing goalie during the game, have gotten the opposing goalie yanked. You know how many of those games they have won? Oh, no. One out of five. Oh, my God. They've lost four games where they have knocked the other team starting goal. I mean, that, I don't know what the winning percentage league-wide is on that, but it's supposed to be a thousand. It's like, definitely not supposed to be 20.

Let's say it's four-foot-five. Like, let's just say it's got to be four for five, just because the one out of five time, the team really gets a spark from their goal league being pulled and they pull it together and they win the game. This is the modern NHL. In overtime, maybe. You get you like your points percentage. Like, they have a win, which, by the way, I believe came against the Rangers. They have two overtime losses and they have two regulation losses. I mean, that is absolutely why.

I mean, it's, it's, you, I, you can't blame the offense. Yeah. Frank, going back to, Frank, going back to when they, when they chased, uh, when they chased uh, when they chased Huso and Kosa ends up in the game, is that a disc, how aware of, of, of that are guys on the bench? Whenever you have a backup come in that's, oh, it's the first thing you know, whether it's a prospect, whether it's a call up, whether it's a random, a random guy. Like, are people like, yo, like, let's let's go.

Like fresh meat is, is that, is that a thing that happens? 100% in that situation, everyone would have known that there's a name on the whiteboard that you've never seen before unless you really paid attention to like the, you know, the WHL. And you know what's going on in the minors, which is obviously not the case for a lot of these guys. But everyone would have known like, this is a new guy. Like, we have to try and pepper this guy. And the other thing about that is you're not playing against world beaters defensively.

You were playing against Detroit. Like Detroit is leaky defensively. So like you can't even say that, oh, they really locked it down. Like that's just a tough team to generate against. No, it's not. We've seen it this year. Detroit is an easy team to generate against. And the fact that they weren't able to do it against them in a situation where you should be highly motivated kind of, you know, shark in, in blood-infested,

waters. That like that kind of speaks volume to where this team is at as far as their ability to close out games, their lack of, you know, killer instinct, if you want to call it that. And a lot of it has to do with like, you're not getting big performances out of some guys that you really need to right now. Like Dylan Cousins is a name that always comes up. Like there's a guy who has to, like he has to be in that next tier pushing up with, with Tage Thompson on that team. And he's not. And there's, there's, there's. a lot of, like there's more stories like that in Buffalo than there is, you know, the success stories right now this year. I think that's what strikes me about the Sabres is that this is

happening for them despite the fact that Tage Thompson has been better. He's got his, you know, all-star, we'll say his, is, his, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, he's on track to, you know, kind of be the player. He looked like he was going to be a year or two ago. They haven't gotten and terrible goal-tending, like Lukaun's been fine. This isn't a situation where he's going out and throwing up, you know, an 8-82 night-over-night. Like, he's been okay. They, not as good as they need him to be, clearly. So if you just said at the start of the season that Tage Thompson's, you know, doing Tage

Thompson things and the goaltending's been half decent, but the Sabres are still, you know, it's December and they're chaining to, their fire Kevin chance breaking out. in the arena, I would have said you're lying because they have those boxes checked, right? Which is like they have a, they have an A-list guy at the top of the lineup and they're getting competent goaltending. So many times like that's, that gets you a quarter of the way down the road. I think it speaks to how brutal that Dylan cousins of the world have been for them because that next layer of production just isn't just isn't there. And that should be scary. Because Tage Thompson, is it going to be a whole lot better than what he is right now, right?

And this is still a team that's completely in the tank. And a guy like Petrka has been good this year. Like he's been, right? Exactly. That line, period. The top line's been good. It's the top line and everyone else. Like, it's funny, like sometimes, you know, DGB, you're right.

You can get the temperature check on Twitter. You know, you have to be careful with that because some people are unrealistic. But the two names I see a lot is cousins and Krebs. and Krebs is one of those guys that, you know, you got in the Eichel trade. And Tuck is, you know, obviously where he is on the first line. He's a good player. But Peyton Krebs right now, like, if you looked at Buffalo's lineup, that's your second line center.

Like, you're not getting second line center production out of that guy. Like, I called a game there this year, a Montreal game, and he was on the fourth line. So, yeah, like, there's, you know, there's a lot at play in Buffalo. Like, there's, you know, if you looked at the injury list, like, it's not, it's not like they're missing big time players. They're trying everything they possibly can and nothing is working. And they, you know, similar to the Rangers, they can find different ways to lose games.

That is for sure. So I guess the only other thing I would say in Buffalo is maybe bringing back the coach from 25 years ago wasn't the answer. And I'm not trying to be dismissive of Lindy Ruff, a guy who was a Jack Adams candidate a couple years ago, but that really even at the time felt like, hey, you guys remember this guy. You liked him last time. We're going to bring him in. It hasn't really worked.

Here's my question to you guys. What's the funniest possible outcome tonight? Hmm. Because one of these teams is going to win, which is wild. But one of these teams is going to, like, is somebody getting fired based on tonight's game? I think the funniest outcome is the Sabres. winning 5'2 and then Lavely like getting canned. Yeah.

I'm trying to think like if it was a low-scoring game or if it was a high-scoring game, like which one would be funnier? Because, you know, both teams need to find offense, but they also need to defend better as well. I mean, Igor Shasturkin getting shelled by the Sabres after signing a $96 million deal. I think that might be it. And you know what? With that, it almost feels like he left a little on the table because,

of how important he is to that team. It's funny, eh, like now with the Rangers being this bad and everything kind of glaring through, it really puts into perspective, like, how much they lean on this guy and how important he is to that team. And really, like, there shouldn't be any doubt. He is the best player on that team, and he deserves to be compensated as such. And I did have to laugh when that deal broke on Friday night, and it included the full no movement clause.

which I think we can assume was probably part of it from the beginning, but I couldn't help but picture him calling his agent that afternoon after the Truba stuff being like, why don't you take another run through the notion? Just make sure that one's, just let's tighten that one up a little bit. How much is this going to cost us if we get that one truly locked and loaded? I don't, hey, did you guys hear that the New York Rangers are interested in Brady Kachuk? Did that make the rounds where you guys are? Oh, baby.

I can tell you, where I am here in Ottawa. Yeah, it did. Did the fans here notice? Zub Zab, Zat, don't say anymore, or else you will be engaging in some... I don't want to engage in any soft tampering. I wouldn't want to get a phone call from whoever their director of media is.

Yeah, I don't know. He is... That guy's nails. You know, he walks around with a scowl at morning skate. I feel like when you say soft tampering, you almost have to do it in like a smooth, velvety kind of voice. Yeah, that's some soft tampering. A Mendez, a Mendez voice.

We should, we need to trick Ian Mendez into saying soft tampering in one way or another so we can just use it as a drop. We're not, we're not in the business on this. That comes out is the soft tampering. Look, I will just say this. You have to know the context here in Ottawa as to why this bothers them so much. Because I get that like in other markets, you might be like, yeah, man, it's a trade rumor. It's a guy's name got thrown out there. Welcome to the NHL.

happens 10 times a day. Every star player is probably been mentioned at some point by some columnist or somebody on Twitter. What's the big deal? And it's the context is that, remember, in Ottawa, they have a long history of their star players leaving on bad terms. From Danny Heatley to Spetsa, Daniel Alfordson, even. You know, just lots of these guys. So when this new generation comes in and the Stutzels and. Thomas Shabbats and Jake Sanderson's and Brady Kachuk signed these long-term deals.

It was a big deal here that like these guys want to be here. They're committing. This is going to be long term. And so it bothers them a lot when guys get thrown out in, you know, trade discussions, trade rumors, whatever it is. And yeah, it did feel like a bit of an overreaction when when the owner is kind of, you know, going to the media saying like, all right, get your pens and papers out. And I got some things to say. but I get it. And the other thing I'll say is it plays really well.

I love this. The fan base here eats this up. They love the us against the world. Our owner is, you know, going to, he'll go face to face with the big powerful rangers. Oh, yeah. He'll go, he'll get right in Larry Brooks's face. Ian Mendes won't be able to hold him back. I loved it.

I loved it from Ann Lauer. Brooks, man, you thought torts was tough. Wait, do you see Angry Mendes? Exactly. I've seen it, man. You don't want it. You don't want any of this, Larry. Stay home.

Yeah. I loved it from Anlauer. I thought he handled it perfectly. Someone said to me, like, it didn't sound whiny from him. Like, it just sounded matter of fact and business-like. Like, he was protecting his guy. And I kind of said it this way on Ottawa radio. I was like, it's almost like you're dating someone who is obviously very highly coveted.

Like, you know, she's a honey. And people are always liking her picks and they're sliding in her DM. and you're seeing this happen. And you just got to drop the old. We're in Punta Cana on the beach. I got my arm around you. We're in the sand. And it's like,

this is my boo. And we're loving life. And you just drop that on there. And hopefully you see those likes and hopefully the DM stop. Like you kind of just mark your territory a little bit. Yeah. You look, you look directly in the camera and smile very wide. We're good here.

Thanks for your. inquiry will be moving on. The title of this episode is in, this is my boo. This is my boo. Frankie, Frankie goes to Punta Kana. Oh, man.

I mean, we've seen this, we've seen this for Manlauer already. Right? We saw it when he, when he bought, when he bought the team. And they,

in the Shane Pinto stuff hits the fan, and he uses that as an opportunity to jump off. They loved it here. They loved it. As they should have. As they should have. He says,

he says, like, basically this is, this is, this is BS that we had to give up a first round pick for the Dadov. He's right. That's not his. What's the problem? He didn't do it.

He inherited it. But the other thing I will say, the New York Rangers have been doing their business very loud. The Goodro thing was loud. The Trouba thing was loud. The Crider thing is loud. Everything is loud around that team. And that's fine.

That's your prerogative. That's how you want to operate it internally. I don't think it's recommended or suggested. But do your thing. But if you start to include someone else's property in your loudness, I think that's where someone like Ann Lauer would have a problem and say, don't start rustling feathers in my neck of the woods because you're doing your business loud. Like, that's not how we're going to operate here in Ottawa.

So buzz off with that. Yeah, but I'll say, though, we better not see any rumors about the senators being interested in somebody. If this is, you know, if this is how it's going to go, you got to play it both ways, right? I mean, you can't be, you can't be. you can't be turning around how many goaltenders over the years did we hear that they were in on or you know players

they might have been interested in so put it this way the next time we hear a rumor about the senators being interested in somebody everybody's going to be throwing that back as long as it's not someone under contract right like that's the thing if we're talking July 1st yeah right but if it's someone under contract

I think that's where it's got a it can't come out if it's someone who's under contract what did you think of the ranger response of basically saying take it to the commissioner or shut up. Yeah, I think that's fair. I'm down with it. I think that's fine too. I have no problem with either end of the, with either end of the, you know, interaction there.

And you can't, it's a boring answer. It's true. You can't control what a reporter is going to write, right? At the end of the day, it doesn't come from the Rangers themselves, but we kind of know. And it's not wrong. That's the thing. It's not wrong because 31 other teams would like Brady-Cach. Yeah, exactly.

Who wouldn't like Brady? He didn't say this is on the verge of happening. He didn't say, you know, that this is a done. Everybody is doing their job in one way or another, including Inlauer. Like, that's what I keep coming. Exactly. I agree. I agree.

I mean, you say it doesn't come from the Rangers. Maybe. Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. It comes from somewhere. But, you know, you read what he wrote. He didn't write anything that you wouldn't expect. And yeah, I mean, to a certain extent, this is, it's a certain extent.

it's a compliment, right? Like this is the fact that a team that's spiraling like this would look at your player and say that's the exact guy that we need probably goes well. I guess the last thing I'll say, if the senators were playing 600 hockey and they were comfortably in a playoff spot, I don't think this is a big deal for sure to them. But the fact that they're a team that's probably pretty thankful that the Buffaloes and New Yorks are taking some of the heat off. Because Matthew...

It's sort of like, hey, don't even drag us into this. It's all because of Matthew and what he went through. And everyone wants to draw the comparisons. The thing is, Matthew was on a bridge deal. And we knew the expiration date was coming up for that pretty quick. Brady's,

he wasn't on a bridge. Like, he signed a seven-year extension. Like, he's committed there long term. So the two situations are not exactly the same. And until Brady has kind of said, like, check please, I don't think it's going to work. He's committed there. And that's, like, that's all we know for sure right now.

It's all we know for sure. Another thing we're going to talk about this in the next segment, another thing we might have learned is that, I think we might have some psychic powers on this podcast. We'll go into that after a break. All right, we're back. We're going to chat abs, goaltending in the extremely hot LA Kings in a second here.

But before that, we want to let you know there's incredible content elsewhere on the Athletic Podcast Network. Baseball's winter meetings are going on in Dallas. we have the one Soto signing with the Mets there, obviously, and Rates and Burials is in the building. Derek Van Ripper and Enosarris are covering the signings and rumors from Dallas. They're sitting down with the game smartest reporters. They're sitting down with front office execs.

And it's a great show. So check out Rates and Burials wherever you get your podcast and watch the video on YouTube. Fellas. Mentioned it heading into the break. Frankie Carrado vindicated, let's say. We have a goalie who started the season in California who was traded to the Colorado Avalanche last week. And you gave us one a two.

And Mack Blackwood was the first one mentioned and he is the guy there, it would seem, after a trade a few days ago. Man, every once in a while you get one right. And I feel like, I feel like windy. I feel like windhorst when he was going on his rant and he's talking about the swirlings of change. in Utah and what is that when Rudy Gobert got traded I think that was it yeah anyways listen it was we knew there was going to be a goaltending change there there just had to be like you weren't going to go forward with you Georgiev at no there's no way you were going forward with him and anything was going to be an upgrade it just depended on how big of an upgrade you

wanted to have and I think Blackwood with the way he's played this year is going to be a fairly significant upgrade. Part of that is Blackwood playing well. Part of that is Georgi of being so historically bad. They didn't go for the big swing and maybe that wasn't available to them. So like John Gibson, like you make the deal that's available to you. But this is going to make them a better team for sure. Does it scream, you know, Stanley Cup goalie, big, long playoff run? I'm not convinced of that yet. We'll have to see him play more with Colorado before we know that. But this is, this definitely helps

alleviate a lot of the pressure they were facing in the crease. It also helps that he makes $2.35 million against the cap this year. That to me is the big number, right, Sean? I have to say, I mean, Frankie, you can pat yourself on the back all you want, but that was soft tampering. It's disgusting. And you owe an apology to the San Jose Sharks and McKenzie Blackwood.

Yeah, first time in NHL history that a team has traded both its goaltenders. this quickly, which is both the goalies who were on the opening net roster gone in Colorado. A case of, first of all, disproving the conventional wisdom that you can't make goalie trades during the season. We hear that a lot. It's a nonsense. And if you hear that, you know, if your team needs goaltending and you start hearing the GM or the, you know, the media being fed this idea that you can't do it, further proof that that that's, that that's not the case. And also a sense of urgency in Colorado because you look at the standings,

they didn't have two months to wait around and see if it would sort itself out and see if other guys would shake free. Maybe the price would come down on McKenzie Blackwood. No time because they were in a situation where another couple of bad weeks and a playoff spot slips away. So kudos to Colorado for moving quick. and moving quickly enough that if this new combo of theirs doesn't work, it's still time to maybe address it again later in the season if you need to.

Wedgwood was good last night against Pittsburgh, too. He's the backup there, obviously. He's certainly not going to start as many games over the next few months as McKenzie Blackwood is going to, but he did his job last night against Pittsburgh. And I think that's more than we could have said about Georgiev and Anunn, and these guys who we've seen, you know, in net for, Colorado over the last little bit, right?

They have, it seems like they have competent guys. Well, the trust. And that's something that has not, exactly. Think about the trust you have now. And McKenzie Blackwood, like, you've seen it enough this year in San Jose on a team that, you know, shown signs of competitiveness, but still is, you know, they're near the bottom of the standings. That's fine.

But you've seen, you've seen what Blackwood can do long enough this year to know that there's a certain level of trust there. Scott Wedgwood has been a good backup goalie in this league for a while now. So you have trust there and you had zero trust in the other guys. Like you were just kind of rolling the dice. It felt like every night hoping what are we going to get? And it's almost crazy to think that because, you know, over the past couple of years, there's not a goalie that's won more games in the regular season than Georgiev.

But that's a byproduct of the team in front of him playing so well. So you kind of think now, okay, what can this Colorado team do with a little more trust in their guy and a guy that's not going to be so leaky and so bad. It's quite the upgrade, for sure. It's also a good move by San Jose, because they win a little too many games there, I think. Things are getting a little bit too interesting. So now you can, you know, does Ascarov play?

Do you mix in some other starts? Does Georgiev start a bunch of games in February and March for you when you're really trying to rack up the ping pong balls? Just back to backs. I think it's a win-win. Just back to backs and just games against the L.A. Kings who are the hottest team in the NHL right now. Like they are. Yeah, man.

It's, I was reading a quote from, from Jim Hiller after the game last night, who's done a really good job there. Like, he's always been an assistant coach in the league. Like, he got, got sprung into that last year. And he just said, he's like, we're a solid team. Like, there's not much more you can say other than that. Like, I think that's a, people. say that sometimes, but I feel like with L.A. it's a very accurate description of what they are.

There's, there's not super, super high-end, you know, skill and flare, but there's skill. Like, you can see that. They, they're a pretty deep team. They play well together as a team. And you can tell, like, they're really bought into what they're doing. And I think that's just, it's a very accurate description of them. They are a solid team. Now, a couple of things on the Kings.

First of all, one year ago, pretty much right around now, the LA Kings were first place overall on the league in terms of points percentage. And by the end of January, they'd fired their coach. So a warning that things can change quick. And, you know, that maybe sends a shutter through some fans in Winnipeg or Washington and other places too. But they're a shameless. Shameless plug for your post on the side of this morning. It may or may not have read that this morning. That's what it's all about.

That's fine. The Kings are a solid team. Three years in a row, they play the Oilers in the first round of the playoffs. Three years in a row, they lose. And the series gets shorter every year. I think a lot of people, myself included, looked at this team and went, yeah, maybe they're a playoff team, but they're no threat. They're no threat to come out of that division. They're no threat to the Oilers or the Golden Knights or whoever else.

They're a team that will maybe make the playoffs because the Pacific. isn't all that strong and then they will do their first round exit and that's it. Are we reevaluating that? Have we seen enough from this team to say, maybe it's time to say, hey, they're doing this without Drew Dowdy, by the way. So maybe we got to look at this and say, hold on a second, we've been sleeping on a team that's maybe more of a threat than we thought, or is it same old? They're doing it without Drew Dowdy. They've found a way to replace him kind of in a sort of a fascinating way because you have, you have Brand Clark getting power play time,

you have Gavrakov that's eating tough minutes. Like they're doing this committee approach to replacing Dowdy, and it's been, it's been great minutes from Mikey Anderson. Like there's a lot of guys on that defense. It seemed like they're playing well. The biggest thing for me, the biggest factor to consider here,

and if you would have said that they would have been in this spot at the start of the season, you know, I'm not totally shocked by the fact that they're going off. early on here because, you know, Sean, like you said, we've seen it before. They're doing it without getting much in the way of production whatsoever from Quentin Bifow.

That's a big one. He's got 11 points overall on the season, which is wild, and he has one assist during this six-game winning streak for them. So now that can go one of a few ways, right? Like, he's back to flip bouncing between center and wing, like what line is he on? Like, there's questions about how he, he's going to be used moving forward, but also, man, you've got to figure that they're going

to get something more than what they've gotten over the first two months here. So I have a guess I'm taking the optimist tack to the whole thing, where it's like they are where they are, despite, you know, not getting much of anything from a player who's, you know, whatever. Which specific team are they beating in the first? That's the question. That's always the question. And, okay, so the byfield thing for me is similar to L.A. as is the Robertson, Wyatt Johnston thing to Dallas, where it's like if those two guys really get cooking, that's a totally different team.

If Quentin Byfield starts playing like the guy that, you know, maybe you thought was going to have, I don't know, 60 to 75 points this year, that's a very different looking L.A. King's team because he brings a dynamic element down the middle of the ice that they do need.

Like, Copa tar's a great player, like unbelievable still. But, you know, if Byfield is, Byfield brings a different level of foot speed, you know, like craftiness, and Dono doesn't have that either. So they're missing that and they're winning despite that. Now, if the playoffs started today, they're playing the Edmonton Oilers. I still believe Edmonton wins that series. Edmonton right now is everything's quiet around Edmonton because Stuart Skinner is playing well.

And when Stuart Skinner plays well, you actually get to see that Edmonton is one of the better defensive teams in the NHL. So, you know, and we know about the star players. We don't need to dig into that. Now, let's say L. leapfrogged Vegas for first in the Pacific, and they finish there, they're playing Colorado. And you look at it and you're like, the same issues that would persist against Edmonton would also be there with Colorado. Colorado probably not as good defensively as Edmonton as a team, but you still have to deal with two megastars in McKinnon and Ranton. And that's the biggest thing that they've struggled with against Edmonton is how do you shut down the two big dogs, those guys like they're it seems like they have their way with L.A.

And that leads to the short series. So it's the, it's the Pacific teams. We're talking about them. Is it Edmonton? Is it Colorado? Where does Vancouver work into all this? I think,

you know, there's enough, there's enough of a log jam there on December 11th where thank God for the Kings. Like it's not, it's not a situation where it's like, all right, it seems like we're locked. into, we're locked into Kings Oilers part four.

I think that's, I feel like, I think that's one of the best things they can say for themselves. You know, the Canucks have been fine so far this year, but Thatcher Demcoe just back. Yep. Uh, J.T. Miller on the way back. Like, I don't feel like until we see them, not fully healthy, full roster, because no team ever really gets there, but, you know, until we see them with all the stars in the lineup, I'm not, you know, I don't feel like we know what they are. Um, that division to be pretty good. And again, like I feel like so much, and you mentioned the piece I wrote this morning about

stuff that, you know, it feels like maybe we were wrong about, maybe not. So much of that is teams like L.A., Washington, teams where we just went, you know what, forget about this team. They're not interesting, right? We need their playoff spot. We need to, you know, make this, shake things up a little bit. And they're reminding us that, no, I mean, teams make the playoffs for a reason. and sometimes that reason carries over a future year.

Vancouver is so different with Thatcher Dempco. And Lankinen's been a good goalie this year. Like imagine that. Like what a signing right before the season, get him under a million dollars. He's saved them in a lot of ways. They bailed him out. Big time. And watching Demko last night in his debut, he looked rusty.

It looked a little uncomfortable for him. He made some saves as the game got going and ultimately like kind of helped them settle in and get the point in the game they didn't play particularly well. They didn't make it easy. No, they didn't. They gave up like three breakaways. Like it wasn't, it wasn't easy. Um, and so, but if he does get back to, you know, I guess we can say he's at full health, but if he feels like he's comfortable and he's able to recover now, uh, between games and

he's a difference maker, that's a very different Vancouver team because he's got that game stealing ability where I would say that at does Edmonton have the game stealer? No. L.A.? No. Like that's that's their, for me, that's their separator in the Pacific. Is Demko being the guy that can steal games in a series? So if you're LA, you're just rooting for Vancouver to get hot, take over second place,

you slide down to third, play them in the first round. You avoid McDavid, if nothing else. It's all falling into place for the game. You get Quinn Hughes instead. That should be, good luck, good luck, my friends. That should be like with 20 games left to go in the season. That should be just on the whiteboard and permanent. marker in their dressing room. Avoid McDavid at all costs. It's like that movie.

Take that however you wish. Yeah. It's like that movie kicking and screaming with Will Farrell, where it's like passed to the Italians. All we need to do is avoid McDavid at all costs. It's always good advice, by the way, past the Italians. I think you and I both know. Frankie, what's up for you this week? Are you on any games? Where are we? You find this interesting. I got the habs versus pens on Thursday at the Bell Center. So, that'll be exciting. Anytime you get, like anytime you get Crosby, but you get Crosby at the Bell Center, I think is always really cool. So, yeah, that'll be exciting. And Patrick Linae loves the Bell Center and the Bell Center loves him back. He's got three power play goals

in four games and the fans have really taken to him. And he's, like, he's knocking it out of the park as a member of the Canadians. It's going really well for him. So that'll be interesting, for sure. It's fun to watch him play. It's fun to watch the post game media availability is with him. I'm enjoying the Patrick Liney, Montreal-Canadian era. I'm glad you are too. Yeah, buddy. Take it easy, bud.

We'll talk you next week. All right, we're back. Sean McIndue, what have we learned? What have we learned, Sean? I think I've learned that potentially the coaching change did not, in fact, fix the Boston ruins. No. Four straight wins under Joe Sacco. Good start.

Last night, not so good. I think the Jets have stopped scoring. I think that's a final. I think it's 8 to 1. Not a very fun game for Boston. Just kind of one of those. Everything goes wrong sort of deals. You don't want to make more of it than you need to.

But yeah, not the sort of game you expect to have when you're just about to pat yourself on the back and say, we're back, baby. You get shifley hangs two on you, Kyle Connor score. you know, they're getting, they're getting goals from everybody. Nikita Chibrakov plays for the Jets. Okay, good for him. Sure. Good for him. Points.

Yeah, that's not, that's not the way you want to do it. You want a game to go necessarily. Also, I mean, good God, we haven't even mentioned the Trent Frederick one punch, right? Yeah. That, well, I mean, that's, yeah, something went well for the Bruins. And again, I guess, I guess. So he didn't even look. He didn't even look happy about it, honestly.

He looked like, why am I fighting this guy who doesn't even fight? And it was, and it's one of those situations where 20 or 30 years ago, this is what happened in an 8 to 1 game. And these days, it's sort of maybe a little less, a little less easy to accept. But the Jets pushed back. You know, they went and did their Logan Stanley and Adam Lari sort of sent the message back that, hey, we're not going to fold on you here. But, I mean, the message in that game is eight to one. And the other message is Jeremy Swamen, now, according to Moneypuck, dead last in goal saved above expected. Oh, my God. At what point do we stop saying, yeah, you missed

training camp and start legitimately worrying about Jeremy Swamon is, I think, the open antiquated. I think that's, it's almost a rhetorical question at this point, because I can tell you, Again, not trying to summarize an entire fan base, but Bruins fans feel to me like the answer is. Right now. We're going to go ahead and panic right now. Three of his last four games, sub-900 save percentages, like at some point, at some point the question needs to be asked. I feel like, I feel like you are correct. List of goaltenders in the NHL who have given up six or more goals three times this year is Jeremy Swamen.

End of list. York Yav isn't even on there Because they get them out That's the thing They left You know They leave Swamen in for this I wonder about that

I can't help I can't help a wonder there If there's not a little like All right Left him in for all eight Like are they trying to get them To start doing the Patrick Wah wave At the

You know At the fans or whatever What are we doing here? He seems like he's capable of it Um What I've learned is that I don't know how many more turns or how many more routes there are for the Nashville

predators to take that don't involve firing their coach. And I've said this several times on the show, like, yeah, that just doesn't see, Andrew Burnett's a good coach, it just doesn't seem like Barry Trots and year two is going to do it. They were solid last year, blah, blah, blah, blah. Nashville has now lost four more games in a row. They're at the bottom of the league in points percentage. Roman Yossi's hurt now.

I think the clock is starting to tick a little. faster on Andrew Brunette. It has to because otherwise, Sean, we said this, we said this off mic before the, before the show. Like, at some point, it just turns into like, okay, do you want to, do you want to try this season? Or like, are we just, are we just, is this a write off? And it feels like that's where they're going. That's why I kind of made a face when you said the clock is ticking. I think you could say the clock has already ticked. The alarm went off and you, and you missed it because, like, we, everybody seems to feel like Andrew Burnett is a good coach. You know, this is, we said this earlier in the show.

Sometimes good coaches get fired. Andrew Burnett's a good coach. I don't know how good of a coach Bill Zito thinks Andrew Burnett is, but, you know, whatever. Very fair. But it's a situation where, and Barry Trots, of course, old school coach himself, if any GM is going to be patient, you figure it be him, right? He's sitting there going, I know that the coach doesn't control everything. I know that coaches get made scapegoats. I know this, this, and the...

But at some point, like very quickly, you go from he's being patient to it's too late, and it doesn't matter now. Because who are you going to bring in that's going to get this team to like a 700 points percentage that they need to get into the playoffs? Versus, do you just go through the whole season? And if you go through that whole season, is Andrew Brunette just a dead man walking anyways, a lame duck? in which case, why not fire them and get a look at somebody else on an interim basis and see if there's something like it's,

every time I think the predators can't possibly go any lower, they do. There are five points behind the sharks. Like what has happened here? So I, and maybe that almost, maybe that almost helps Brunette because if you're trots and you're like, is this the guy that I, you need to start thinking about

because this season like it's over, it's over. They can't, can't do it. It's not going to happen. So you start asking the question, like, is this the guy I want coaching my team next year? And if he is, then you just say, like, okay, just suffer through this, I guess. I don't even know. I would love to, I would love to know, though, like, what is the worst, this is a DGB reference, you know, reference question. What is the worst, like, the worst season opening points percentage that a team has ever had? And, you know, this is the, like, the worst season opening points percentage that a team has ever had and not fire their coach.

Because at some point, at some point we're going to get there. Like, how bad, how bad could this team be without, without making the, yeah. And it, look, I mean, Barry Trots feels to me like a guy who's probably as competitive as they come. So take this with a grand assault. But you look at how bad this team is right now and not changing anything and preaching patience and it's hard for me not to think, you know what, the Nashville Predators have never had a top draft pick to like build a franchise around. They have, they've had one top three

pick in franchise history. That was in 1998. They got David Legwond in a terrible draft. And David Legwant probably wasn't even a bad pick. It just, there was nothing in those late 90s drafts. They've had one other top five pick. They got Seth Jones and that was. over 10 years ago. That's it. The entire history of this franchise that's never really won anything significant other than a couple of years there in the late 2010s have never had that top pick. Like, are they, is that what we're going for here?

Is this, it's got to tick off all the teams that are actively tanking, right, when some team shows in. But maybe that's it. Maybe the plan is, remember that, geez, this is forever ago now, but remember when the Flyers kind of out of nowhere had that one terrible year finished last, ended up losing the lottery for Patrick Kane, but could have had Patrick Kane, they get Van Riemstike instead, and then kind of got back into contending the next year. It was just like, hey, everything went wrong.

Weird blip on the radar, like, fine. Maybe that's it? I don't know. I mean. We know that Barry Trott's is a bold general manager. The man goes out, makes a stamp coast and March. It's a bold offseason general manager. Bies out Matt Duchyne and is one of his first acts on the job.

I think he has all the job security in the world. I mean, he's a legend in Nashville. What would be bolder than just sticking with Brunette and being like, yeah, okay. Like, I feel fine about this. Let's go get the third overall pick in the draft. At some point, it's like, dude, are you a GM now or are you still an old coach? He might be a new coach. Might be a new coach real soon.

Let's wait and see. What's going on with you the rest of the week, bud? I know you have a post up. I got a post up today. Looking at things we're wrong about. And I've got a post that I'm working on for later in the week based on the Jacob Truba thing. I think it's time that we finally sit down and say, okay, we need a ranking of the

worst Mark Messier Leadership Award. Yes. Are you serious? You're doing it? Yes. Oh, my God. After seeing a guy win the award and months later get threatened with waivers and traded. Oh, my God.

I think we're... I'm here to offer consultation services if you need any uncredited consultation. If you need any votes in one way or the other. So you guys heard that if you read my piece at the end of the week and there's anything in there you don't like, that was... It's on me. You can just assume that that's the case, actually. That's generally the case on everything. It's been the case.

And I got to say, but I shouldn't drop this on you live, but I think we owe the people of rules court pretty soon. Let's go. Let's do that soon. All right. Easy, peasy. That's settled. All right, man. And we'll talk to your folks next week.

Two games tonight. Rangers versus Sabers, Ducks versus Senators. Enjoy it. And we'll see you next Wednesday. Haley and I are back tomorrow with the Thursday episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. See you then.