The Athletic Hockey Show - Can the underachieving Oilers overcome the loss of McDavid?

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

On Halloween, Hailey and Sean discuss the injury to Connor McDavid and the impact on the already underachieving Edmonton Oilers, the upstart Columbus Blue Jackets and a New Jersey Devils team who are poised to be a top squad in the NHL for years to come. Plus, Hailey and Sean take a closer look at the PWHL's announcement that they plan to expand to eight teams, if the league can pull it off, and what cities could possibly join the league as early as next season? Hosts: Hailey Salvian and Sean GentilleExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the athletic hockey show. It's Thursday. It's Halloween today. So we have a super spooky episode of the other. Good evening. It's the morning.

It should have tried. Doesn't matter. Good morning. Hello. Hello. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. You got to put on some kind of Dracula affectation.

some kind of Transylvania accent. No, I just ended up sounding like, you just ended up sound like an old man. I was trying to do like spooky ghost. It's Helen Sean. I know, I know what you were trying to do. I know what you were trying to do.

Should we get Jeff to cut all this out? I think people are going to hang up immediately. They're just going to know that only one of us can do funny voices and impressions on this show. And it's me. Yeah. Yeah, that's great.

just like Frankie is the only guy in the Wednesday show who can do him because he dropped the Mike Sullivan impression yesterday. It was distressingly accurate. A star on the rise that Frankie Carrado. Spooky Mike Sullivan. That's what he should have. Spooky Mike Sullivan. That's not going to happen. It's Thursday. It's Haley and Sean here with the athletic hockey show. We are going to spend a large part of the show today talking about the big news in the PWHL this week, which is the. that the league is preparing for and taking steps for expansion up to two teams as soon as next season.

I had a story come out on The Athletic today looking at some of the potential options, who are the top candidates. I am already getting not ripped, but like tastefully ripped in the comments about teams that I didn't include. So we could talk about a few more cities and teams. The point of the story was not to just have like 20 different. cities on it. But we can talk a little bit about some of the top candidates that's going to come up in the second segment. So if you're mostly just interested in that, you can skip ahead the segment too. But if you want to hear a little bit about some news and games around the NHL first,

stick around with us. Cause Sean, we've got to talk about it. This didn't come out yesterday before you guys recorded the Wednesday show. So it wasn't there. So we can talk about it now. It's Connor McDavid. His injury, we have a bit more of a timeline now. So the Edmonton Oilers anticipate being without Connor McDavid for the next two to three weeks due to the lower body injury. He sustained in the first shift of a 6-1 loss in Columbus on Monday. He returned to Edmonton on Tuesday for further evaluation. And the play was weird.

It looked like he was maybe tripped by Zach Wrenski at the offensive blue line. There was no call in the play, by the way, and he crashed into the boards kind of awkwardly looked like his ankle. Kind of did a little crunch against the boards. So that's the news. Connor McDavid officially out for the next two to three weeks. Oilers have not had a good start to the season. They're four, five, and one. They're going to miss Connor McDavid.

Yeah. Safe to say. Oh, I got to wait and see on that. Yeah, I look at the way the, or the, the, timeline in the way they're treating it. I think the best possible news, because it did, you know, whatever. Let's be realistic.

It looked like it was his ankle. It was his actual lower body foot area. My first thought when I saw it was that is a high ankle spring. The dreaded high ankle spring. Really? You didn't see that and go, oh my God, is his knee screwed? Because I think, I honestly think

this being two to three weeks due to an ankle was like, it's not good news, but it was like, oh, thank God. It's great news. If it's, if it is indeed an ankle, we'll say air quotes ankle here and it's two to three weeks. A body ankle region. I mean, if like a high ankle sprain is disastrous. It's bad for a normal person. It's bad for a professional athlete. It's certainly bad for a hockey player because of all the because of all the, you know, just the skating mechanism, right? That's something that takes weeks, months, half a season. It's something that. that is really easy to re-injure. It's something that doesn't really go away in most cases until you have a full

off season worth of work. Like that's a big deal. It's one of those things where you're maybe better off breaking a bone than having a true high ankle sprain. And if that was what he was dealing with, the timeline would not be two to three weeks. So the fact that that is what it is in that, you know, it seems like by all accounts, he's going to be back by the middle of November or pre-American Thanksgiving or excuse me, pre-actual Thanksgiving?

I don't think it could work out. I don't think it could have worked out much better because I don't know. That's where the alarm bells are going off from me, right? He goes in, he leaves the ice immediately, goes back for, goes back for evaluation back in Edmonton. Like, it seems like they have averted disaster. I mean, now, though, you got to play with that. Connor McDavid for two to three weeks and that's I was going to say easier said than done but that's also

not that's also not said all that easily I think that's just a problem. Yeah, yeah. How do you replace the irreplaceable player and not just for your team but the entire NHL? You don't, you just try to get all your other frankly shit together. That hasn't been working. The Oilers have been

a really weird, even frustrating team to watch early on in the season. It's easy to make jokes of like, oh, they're doing it again. Ha ha, last year they were bad and end up in the cup final. But they have this dominant win over the penguins. They win in Detroit. Goaltending looks good in those games. Offense is showing some pretty solid signs, particularly in that game in Pittsburgh, right?

Like, okay, maybe the Oilers are going to be, they're going to trend towards the cup contender. They're going to be. and then Columbus happens, and you lose Connor McDavid in the first shift, 37 seconds of the game. Then you lose six to one. The six goals against has really nothing to do with Connor McDavid, right? Like, as great as he is, it's not like he's taking all the D zone starts,

blocking shots all the time. So that's goal tending, that's defense. It's obviously the rest of the offense because you only put up one goal. Connor McDavid's not the only guy who can score in the Oilers. So outside of Connor McDavid, they have other. things that they need to figure out. It's been a really weird, inconsistent 10 games for the Oilers, and now they're missing. Prime Connor McDavid.

It's not great. Six games in their next two weeks, 10 games over the next three weeks. So that's kind of what they're looking. Let's say six of ten games without them. That's a significant chunk of the season. Yeah. I will say too, because I was recently talking to somebody who went through a pre-year, a serious knee injury and rehab for a story that I'm working on.

And there's almost this sense with hockey players that as bad as it is for like a high ankle sprain, right? As disastrous as that could be, ankle is almost always the preferred injury in hockey specifically because at very least when you put your skate on, it's stable. I remember writing about Rebecca Johnston. She now works with the Calgary Flames and player development, I believe, but was a multi-time Olympic medalist world champion for Team Canada. She had a, the word that was used was gruesome Achilles injury.

That was off ice thing. She went hiking and just blew up her Achilles. She came back and made the Olympic team and was still playing, like, not that long after that. And it wasn't fully healed. Like when she was walking around, she's in a boot. Like she couldn't walk on the street. but she could lace up her skates, tighten everything, and go and play at World Championships or Olympics.

So the ankle in hockey is always very interesting. You're not coming back from an ankle as quickly in basketball or soccer as you are in hockey. So that's, I guess, at least, the good news for McDavid is maybe if he gets far enough along, quick enough, just lace up the skate over the best. It'll be interesting to see what they do with. him out of the lineup too, right? Like, I think they have, they have some choices. Do you bump up Nugent Hopkins are the top six? That seems like that's where they're leaning. So, so your top two Cs would be dry sidel and, uh, in, uh, in Nugent Hopkins. They called up some guys

feel like from the H.L. They're making, you know, plans to plan to try to replace him, but, I mean, what do you? What are you going to do? Is this where the broker and Holloway offer sheet kind of sucks? I think I, to some extent, and I think this is where Victor Arvinson getting off to a really slow start hurts them too because he's been bad. Like he's, I think he's, in a lot of ways, has always been a feaster famine player. And he's in a low spot right now. So, so I, to me, even more than the Drake Cajulia is, Drake Cajula is in Noah Phelps of the world who are guys who came from the H.L.

You need production from the guys that you have in house already. And I think that starts with Arvinson because he's been, because he's been really bad. And it hasn't just been about him being unlucky either. He's generating way less shots at five on five than he ever has before. So there is like an adjustment period and all that that's to be expected. But he needs to be better because he's a guy who when he's on is capable of scoring goals at a 30 goal pace. We've seen it plenty over the last few years. They need more from him.

I think that's kind of where it starts. Right. Okay, let's move on to some of the games from Wednesday night. I kind of forgot what day it was. It's Halloween. I never know what day it is. That's concerning. Okay, so we don't have time to talk about all the games and not all of them were particularly interesting, but the one that I really did circle that I think is worth talking about is the Columbus Blue Jackets. They beat the New York Islanders to nothing. Is it time to say that the Blue Jackets might be better than we thought? Because we did kind of, we got ripped by Blue Jackets fan who was like, you don't know what you're talking about. It wasn't nice to. We do. We do know what we're talking about.

So is it time to say like maybe the blue jackets are better than we thought or should we just kind of enjoy that they're having a better start than we thought? I'm taking option B there. Like I didn't think that they had a 10 game or 8 game stretch like the one that they've had in them. Honestly, I thought this was especially once when Jenner got hurt. Yeah. Here. Good Branson. Good Branson.

Yeah. Like they're losing relevant players kind of out of the out of the gate to injury. So good for them, but this is still this is still each and every night, man, this is an outmatch team. It's just, it's the roster is just not just not good enough. They're getting good, good goaltending props to Elvis Merzleekins. Like he was, he was really good. He was really good last night. Yeah.

But this is still a really bad five on five team. And, you know, that's going to bear itself out. at some point. Yeah. I'm not comfortable pretending that it won't. But hey, man, like, you take it, you take it where you can get it. And if there was ever a team that deserved a hot streak at the start of the season, it's this one.

So it's been nice to see. I think you also have some internal growth that's been happening to Cole Cillinger's, having a better season last year was, I guess it was like he had a pretty good rookie year and then dropped off and then he was okay. And he's had a good start, two goals, eight points and nine games for Cylinder. He's playing on the second line with Fantilli. And there's reason to think like, it's nice to see those two playing together and playing well. And the top line has been very, very good for the Blue Jackets, the Chinikov, Monaghan, Marchenko line.

Heading into last night's game, they had five goals and nine points and eight games, 65% expected goal rate, and they're outscor. boring opponents 10 to 5. And that's been great to see, like, particularly when we're talking about Sean Monahan, and that's not even just when we consider that he lost his best friend in the preseason. Like, this is also someone who went through multiple debilitating hip injuries, hip surgeries. Sean Monahan's been through a lot. And before the tragedy of Johnny Goddrow's death, I was circling Sean Monahan as like, I hope this guy has a great year. And you just add something so horrific and unfathomable to that. And I don't know if there's

many NHL players that I want to thrive and succeed more than Sean Monaghan this season. So it's been great to see him playing well, starting out with the Columbus Blue Jackets, because I can't even imagine how difficult it is to go sign somewhere to play with your best friend and raise your kids together and then have to look at their empty locker every single day. Yeah, and they needed another one of those young forwards to step up too. Yeah. Because he's been, eh, like, like he hasn't, he hasn't been great.

He was, I showed tons of great stuff, especially at the end of, at the end of his season last year, but before he, you know, got hurt and had stuff end, end a bit early on him. So he's been whatever. I look at Cole Sillinger as like a guy who's, that's a, that's a name to underline. That's like a little gold star to put next to the Columbus Blue Jackets because they needed one of those dudes. If you assume that Fantille is pretty much locked in as a legit contributor and he certainly seems like he is like you slow start whatever. He'll be fine. But there were legit questions about Coal Cylinger. There were legit questions about Ken Johnson.

Those are like the two other potential long term young pieces. Ken Johnson gets hurt another bit of crappy luck for them. Cool Cylinder has been good. And I think they needed one of those guys to at least look like, you know, a long-term, let's say, complimentary piece. And you certainly can say that about him with the ways looked so far. Yeah. Okay. The other game of that was hyped up, I guess, heading into it.

It's the Hughes Bowl, all three Hughes brothers playing. It's Vancouver versus New Jersey. Great game if you're a Devils fan. great game if you're a fan of the new jersey devils they win six nothing uh nico he's your scores on the first shot of the game there was a lot of bad mistakes by the vancouver canucks in that game i'm not somebody who looks at a game and says like ooh very concerning trends popping up like we're not even a month in the season i'm not going to be like should be concerned over the canucks six nothing loss but there were a number of things that happen that you can

highlight is like, that's not good. I'm not going to overreact, like, not great. Peterson loses the puck on that first goal turned into a rush opportunity. The devil's had a ton of rush chances in that game. There was a really bad J.T. Miller blind backhand, like drop off pass to Quinn Hughes while they were on the power play, which then led into another Dico Heeshire, odd man rush, which Dawson Mercer scored on short-handed. J.T. Miller gets demoted from the top power play unit after that, I might add. It was just like a lot of devils all the time. Markstrom gets a shut out. Nico Heeshers had a great start to the season, by the way. Just a lot to like for the devils and a lot of things you could circle and be like, not good by the Canucks. Yeah, I think,

I think he's here having a major, not that he was bad last season, but he saw his offensive numbers dip. He saw his defensive effect of his dip a little bit, right? And I think that if they want to get where they're trying to go here. They need him to be. He was, he had a disappointing season. He wasn't bad, but it was disappointing.

He certainly wasn't good. It was disappointing while still being like, but I think that was one of the ones. I think I said this, either on the show or maybe just to you, I don't know if there was somebody more prime to have a great year from the coaching change from Lindy Ruff to Sheldon Keith more than Nico he sure.

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, he seems like a player that, you know, he's the kind of guy that I think Sheldon Keith values in a very real way. Not to say that Lindy Ruff didn't, but I think Sheldon Keefe, you know, knows how to coach guys like that. I think that's safe to say based on his work with the Maple Leafs. So yeah, I'm not surprised with an offensive skill set who are also very valuable in the DZone, right? Like there's a way to play Nico Hesher that isn't just DZone start, DZone start. You want to take advantage. of the fact that he is going to win a Selke trophy one day. Like I feel comfortable saying that. But like this is also a guy who can make plays and score and get up the ice. So you want to be able to put Nico Hesher in positions to optimize both sides of his game. And I think we've seen that more in these first 10 games by the New Jersey Devils. I think last night was the first game that I watched where I was just like, okay, maybe this is the devil's team that we were expecting. I don't think it was a disastrous start for the Devils,

but if you look at their season, like they lose the opener to, well, I guess it wasn't their opener because they played all those neutral segments. Yes, don't forget. They lose to the Maple Leafs once they get back to North America, beat the Caps, beat Utah, whatever. But then they lose to the Cains,

they lose to Washington again, big loss to Tampa. They lose to the Rangers. Like there was enough long. losses to good teams where you could be like, oh, maybe they aren't very good. Is goaltending going to be an issue? A couple really bad Markstrom, Jake Allen games. And this was a game where I do think you circle and say like, okay, is this going to be the jumping off point for this like cup contending devil's team? People thought they were going to be once they went out

and signed Jacob Marksham this off season. Yeah, maybe that's the biggest thing to come out of yesterday for them. Bigger than he's your bigger than another team O'Meier goal like Jacob Markham looked like himself. And that's, I think on my end, you know, when we're doing power rankings last week, the only, the only powerings that were on the site, by the way, the only reckons of any sort that run on the NHL pitch. That's true? Yeah, it's crazy, I know, it sounds like a lot. I've heard about this crazy one-sided rivalry, this huge beef that Sean McIndoo has with you specifically.

I don't, I don't know him. That's interesting. You guys tell me more about that off, Mike. the issue, I think, was that there were, you know, there were pockets of problems with individual players. Then you also had that the trash goaltending was kind of rearing its head again for them. And if they, again, as ever, what the devil has been standing for years, you know, if they get the goaltending right, a lot of other stuff gets a lot easier to fall in place. And I think, you know, we saw what they can look like against a really good team last night. And I think that's about as good as you can hope for for them at the moment. Like some other games to quickly circle because we do need to take a break and I want to get to the PWHL Air Fryer.

Sizzle, Sizzle, Sizzle. Winnipeg beats Detroit 6 to 2. I don't know what you've heard, but I did not disown the Winnipeg Jets in the preseason. I did not do that. People are like knocking on my door at my house being like, hey, did you know that Haley disowned the Winnipeg Jets in the preseason? And I say, no, no, no, no, no, she did not. It wasn't her.

That was Shana. That was Shana. I'm sorry, Shana. That's the only other woman I can. Yeah, right. He's the only other woman here. So I have to throw you under the bus, I fear. Pickens are pretty slim.

If you're looking for another female writer to throw under the bus. It was Katie Strang. Don't say her name two more times or else she will appear. And the Tampa Bay Lightning beat the Aves 5 to 2. I don't think there's any bigger takeaway there than what we've already said about the Aves. Goaltending hasn't been good. Lots of injuries. I look at the Red Wings game and I'm like, I know, whatever.

They're not good. Yeah. They lost the Winnipeg. fix a good team but like it's been a bad start by the red ones this team that i still i thought at the start of the season i think now they don't have the horses to to compete in that in that division it's a bad five-on-five team again yeah we just we being Frankie and macken who spent uh an hour dumping on the penguins yesterday rightfully well guess who's right down there with pittsburgh in terms of five-on-five incompetence it is the detroit redwings yeah

It's almost like we all spent a significant chunk of the preseason discussing who between the Sands, Sabres and Red Wings are going to make the playoffs. None of them. Yeah. The answer is none of the above again, I fear. The top four teams in the Atlantic are the same are. Well, actually, it's not true. The Sends are fourth because the Bruins are last. Yeah.

Okay. Well, like I, but I guess I suppose that is true. Maybe there will be space there, but like, you're not going to leave frog many of those teams, man. They're still good. They've been good for a really long time, even though everyone's ready to dump dirt on the Bruins. I'm not quite there yet. You don't think they're frauds on October 31st? I don't.

I think they've played badly, but everybody should know better than to bury the Boston Bruins. It's happened in each of the last two seasons for varying degrees. and people are proven wrong. So no, I'm not ready to do that. If there's one of those teams, it is probably the Sends. I do think they've looked better than the Sabres of the Red Wings.

They're 5 and 4. It's a pretty good start through nine games. They're above 500, and they have a positive goal differential. So it's pretty good. Congratulations to Ian Mendez. He's on the team. new alternate captain Ian Mendez.

All right. So that's our NHL segment. It's been, it's a required NHL segment. It's over. Thank God. We're done talking about the men's hockey now. When we come back,

it's all about the PWHL here on the athletic hockey show. It's time for the PWHL air fryer. Sizzle, sizzle, sizzle. I've dressed up as an air friar for Halloween for the That's like not far off from some of your other Halloween costumes or so I've heard. That's in line with your bizarre approach to Halloween. So in my senior year of high school, my best friend and I went, you know, to school together. We dressed up because people did that.

It was cool. She dressed up like a baby. Like she put on a diaper and had big tails. and a giant adult binky, an eye dressed as a deviled egg. That's precious. So it was just like a big egg with devil horns. That's what made it so funny.

Yeah. So that sounds to me like someone who could rig up an air friar costume. Yeah. Let's go. Yeah, I definitely don't go for like the cute bridal of loving costumes, unfortunately. I do Sean dresses as like sexy penguin I was going to say sexy referee

All right All right so it's time to talk about the PWHL We mentioned it off the top But the big news of the week is that the league is preparing To explore expanding up to two teams So from the original six Markets are in Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Minnesota, New York and Boston

up to eight as soon as next season. There's no guarantee it's going to happen that fast. And I would be kind of surprised if we had two teams next season just based on how long stuff seems to take. I did speak with Amy Shear on Tuesday about this. And she was like, it could be next year. It could be in two years. We'll see.

So I think that as soon as next season is doing quite a bit of work, it could happen. They threw an entire league together in six months. It all just depends on what kind of, proposals the league gets. So essentially the news to really get into the detail of it without getting too nerdy and weird in business, they've started the request for proposals process, which means the league is going to send out, I believe Amy Shira said they're going to do around 20.

So they're going to send out 20 of these requests for proposals to different groups or teams, what have you, who they want to send a proposal for an expansion franchise. and that doesn't include all the other teams or groups that might say, hey, we want in two, we are sending you a proposal on our own. So there's going to be dozens of options. It's going to look like. And the goal is to get all these proposals in by the end of the year. So by the end of December. And then the league will explore those proposals and decide like, okay, this team's a turnkey ready. we can expand to Pittsburgh by 2025-26 or they might get something where it's like

Pittsburgh might take an extra year to have a facility ready, but it's worth waiting for so they'll be by year four. So we don't know the when, the where, but we do know that the process is started and we do know that we can sit here

for the next 20 minutes and talk about where we think the league should and could go. And how much of this process starting now is because they're getting interest, that interest has been expressed by various groups, like in getting involved. Because to me, that's, like, not knowing a fraction as much about the process as you do. Sending out these proposals to groups makes it sound like they know that there's groups that want to, that would like to be part of, of,

the league in some form or fashion. Well, we had friend of the show, Stan Kasten, who also happens to be the president of the Los Angeles Dodgers. Hey, by the way, by the way, congrats to our friend Stan on his, on his latest World Series championship. Way to go, buddy. Yeah, friend of the show, Stan Kasten, he's another champion.

When he came on the show before the league even started, like before the puck even dropped, he told us. And he's told me this many times. They were fielding calls from people who wanted in from the get-go. And that's how they knew that they, you know, we're doing the right thing. That was the kind of thing that somebody like Stan Kasten probably wants and needs to hear when you embark on a project like starting women's hockey league.

They were getting interest from teams before the puck even dropped. And I reported a story with Rob Rossi last year. The penguins have been very vocal about their interest in an expansion franchise. And before the league even started this process, the penguins were starting their own internal process on where could they play, what can we expand. They appointed someone to lead the project of getting women's hockey to Pittsburgh. And so there are teams that are very vocal in expressing that. There's teams that have been privately expressing their desire to have a team. A city counselor in Quebec City has talked about how they want an expansion franchise.

No NHL fine will get a PWHL team, although I'm sure they want both. So, yeah, I think the interest has been huge. There's going to be, I think, nine neutral site games. Amy Shear said that at the ESPNW summit the other day. And all those neutral site gains are from NHL groups and the like who want to bring the PWHL to their city. So there's a ton of interest in getting involved with this. And we know that the six current teams are owned by the league. It's single ownership.

It's Mark Walter, who's head honing. show of the L.A. Dodgers, long time, very successful, very, very wealthy sports executive. He owns the six existing teams. Is there any, what are, is there any thought as to how that model exists moving forward? Like, or, like, as, as we're talking about expansion teams, are we talking about two more legal in teams? Are we talking about pivoting away from that and having NHL franchises co-own expansion teams? Would it be like a partnership with, is there any indication, like, towards, you know, the direction that they're, that they're leaning in for that? It's a good question. I think it's like the second most important question outside of where

are they going to go. And I asked that question to Amy Shearer and Jane Hefford, who are the senior VPs of business and hockey operations for the league. And they basically said, like, we are not changing our business model right now. But their job is to get the proposal make their recommendations to the board and say, hey, these two teams look great. This is what we think. And then Mark Walter and Stan Kasten and Billy Jean King and Alana Klaus will make all the economic decisions.

So basically what they're saying is we don't know how this is going to work. That I think it's going to depend. Because look, if Fenway Sports or the Seattle Cracken or Quebec City are going to throw buckets of money down, But the asterix is we want to own this team. They're going to have to think about that decision, right? Like, is that what's best for the league? I think selling these franchises to individual owners will then kind of defeat the purpose of starting the league as a single entity, in my opinion, because the whole goal, this is what Stan Kasten has said, is like, we think that this is better in the growing stage of the league because everyone gets the same access and, um,

to resources and infrastructure, right? You don't have have nots and have teams, which can be an issue and other, which has been an issue in other iterations of women's hockey. And is currently an issue with, look at the WMBA. You have the, that's what I was thinking.

Yeah, the coach of the Minnesota links being like, well, this is what happens when someone's like trying to buy flights. And it's like, okay, so you're dumping on an ownership group who wants to spend money on women's hockey.

Boo! The call was bad on Brianna Stewart, but you don't have to dump on the owners. Sorry. We are falling down the hoops rabbit hole here unnecessarily. But anyways, the single entity was kind of created to ensure that everyone has the same level of professionalism.

So I think the MLS is an interesting look, major league soccer. That also operates as a single entity and the way that they've done it. They've expanded from 10 teams to 29. but their ownership is unique and it's something the PWHL could look at as an option, which is MLS teams have investor operators. So teams come in or like individual ownership groups, quote unquote, will come in and invest in the league and then operate a team.

That's kind of the work around is like, Sean Gentile doesn't own the Toronto FC, but he invests in Major League soccer. and operates TFC. Like he basically owns it, but he doesn't. He's just invested a chunk of money and he operates the franchise. Is kind of my understanding of how that works. I invest my money and I operate the franchise and I also build equity and

and potentially share in profits. Like there is money under that model, the MLS model, there is money to be made and value to be built. Yeah, yeah. You're not operating at one. Mark Walter makes it. I am not a league employee who gets paid a salary or whatever. That's right.

Yeah. So that's kind of the nuts and bolts of how expansion could work. I think the fun part of the conversation is discussing where it might go, right? So I maybe ask you first, Sean, like if you're imagining, just like as a fan maybe of hockey, women's hockey, what are your top two? for PWAHL's as a non-expert on the topic correct as the non-expert on

the topic on this on this phone call I want Pittsburgh in Chicago selfishly selfishly I want there to be a team in Pittsburgh because I've been to PWHL games I see the environment I know how I know how how fun that can be just as a

as a fan right you went to the takeover weekend in Pittsburgh right? I sure did. I think I saw you on the video board doing the Taylor Swift sing-along. Yeah, she's my favorite. She's my favorite artist. Not just currently in her of all time. But it's great.

It's a great environment. And without getting too sappy, you know, I was, and too sentimental over it, I was there with a bunch of my friends who have daughters. And like you see the vibe at these games is great. And also the quality of play is really good too. It's good. It's good hockey. And I, I selfishly, as a Pittsburgh born and bred dude, I want their, I want this city to get in on it. And then for the other, for the other one is.

Well, let me jump in on Pittsburgh first. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. We can talk about that maybe, maybe now, right? Because to me, I had Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh's top of my list just because you have an ownership group in Fenway Sports. and people at the top of the Penguins organization, like Kevin Acklin, who's their president of business operations,

who want this to happen. And they've actively, as I said, been taking steps to ensure that when expansion comes, they are ready to get in. They've hosted PWHPA games in the past. They hosted rivalry series games in the past. They had NWHL slash PHF players at games. The Penguins have shown,

before the PWHL even existed, an interest and an interest in supporting women's hockey. They've invested in girls and youth hockey at the grassroots level as well. I mean, even Sidney Crosby wants this to happen. I asked him that question at All-Star Weekend. And he said, I think we've shown that we're interested. And I think if the league's going to expand, I really hope they look at Pittsburgh. Are you going to say no to Sydney Crosby? I don't think so.

And his judgment, obviously, is completely sound and unimpeachable. He hasn't made any decisions in the last six months that maybe seem like they're back wearing. Continue. You sound like my dad who's like, should Sydney Crosby goes on with the Colorado Avalanche? Yeah. Anyways. He's joking. You have to get on the phone here soon.

And I think what the penguins have done too is, you know, PPG paints arena, they could play there. the PWHL did play there during the takeover weekend. They had almost 9,000 fans in attendance. It wasn't as big as the Detroit game, which I'm sure we'll talk about. But I will say, I believe that was a Sunday afternoon when the Penguins played Saturday night and Sunday night.

But anyways, it was the ninth most attended game in the regular season for the league. So 9,000 and an NHL bowl might sound like fine. But it was top 10 in terms of attendance. And I think if you have to play at PPG for a year or two, while you wait for an alternative. There's worse things.

The Minnesota Frost play at Excel. Sometimes they have great games over 10,000 plus fans. Other times they have like five. Like it's not ideal, but it's okay. It's better than playing at the practice rank with only a thousand seats. And Kevin Ackland did tell us last year that the penguins are really interested in potentially expanding their practice facility in Cranberry.

It's not too far from downtown. And I think at least when you're looking at Cranberry, Cranberry, a lot of people do live out there. It's not like you're going out to the middle of nowhere suburbs where nobody lives. You would still attract a fan base if you're in Cranberry. And it's not that far from where the downtown of where the downtown location of the rink is. And Ackland had said, you know, maybe building a third sheet of ice with seating in line with a modern arena for a D1 program. It would serve as a base of operations for a team.

It could have, you know, offices, locker. rooms, training, medical areas, everything that a professional team would require, want, and deserve. And that's the stuff for me that makes Pittsburgh a great option because they are taking these steps. They're thinking in this way. It's just going to depend what's ready for the proposal. And I think you can look at the way that Acklin and the penguins are treating this process

as a nice test case for why so many people want to get involved with this league is that there is something to be gained by the Pittsburgh Penguins from this. Like this could well make it easier for them to, you know, expand the practice facility. And in what, right? Like it's, it's, I'm not, I'm not doubting their, their, you know, their, their rationale here. But that's why we're seeing so much, so much interest in women's sports across the board is that it's good business. And I, and I think it's not, Pittsburgh is maybe a nice test case, but it's far from, it's far from the only, from the only, from the only, from the only. group where you can look at it and say, like, all right, there's like, what's, what's in it for them?

And the answer always, invariably, is quite a bit. Yeah. Let's move on from Pittsburgh and get to Chicago because I will say, and this isn't even me just, like, this isn't me as an expert. Those were my top two as well. I think Pittsburgh makes a lot of sense because of everything we just said. And I think Chicago makes a lot of sense because, first and foremost, it's a great city and I would love to go there all the time for home games. Number two, it would be kind of connective tissue for the Minnesota franchise who's kind of on an island alone in Midwest. Everything else is like northeastern U.S. Eastern Canada and then Minnesota is just like out there alone. So I think Chicago, while not right next to Minnesota, would add a little bit of a connection in terms of like a Midwestern American city.

And Abby Murphy is going to graduate in at least one or two years. and I think it would be unbelievable to start a Chicago franchise and put the number one Chicago, South Side Chicago, like pest villain superstar in the Chicago franchise. I'm fine with the league making Abby Murphy-centric decisions. Now and moving forward, whatever it takes.

Do this for. Chicago, like from the outside, And again, as a layman here, what is their arena situation? Because I know the United Center is an incredibly busy building. You got the Bulls. You got the, you got the Blackhawks. Throwing a team in the mix with an NBA team and an NHL team to me. And all the events.

Tons of concerts, whatever. And also the Blackhawks practice facility is across the street. And it's nothing, it's not from a seating standpoint. It's not really. It's not really sufficient for. I know they're expanding that practice facility, and I kind of hoped that that expansion would include a rink that has more seating. I talked to Mark Lazarus, host the Monday show, covers the Blackhawks.

And he was like, no, it's going to be like 1,500. So they're not making that a bowl. So unfortunately, I don't think the practice rank, which isn't even done yet, would make sense. When trust arena is interesting, because that's where the Chicago Skyplay, and I think that is the perfect capacity for a women's pro franchise. It's 10,000 seats. Of course, you expect and hope that, you know, a team will get more than that eventually. But I think that's a really nice starting point. So it doesn't feel like too cavernous. But that's mostly a basketball venue. And I have no idea that can facilitate a sheet of ice. It's the sky in DePaul Hoops too. Right. So can they put a rank in there? I don't know.

I don't know if they built it that way. That's the problem. I don't think it's, I don't think that's something you can just decide, like, hey, we're all of a sudden going to now be a hockey venue. Allstate Arena, which is where the Chicago Wolves,

the HL play, is an interesting alternative. It's not quite the, like, hey, the Boston team plays in Lowell because it's only, 20 miles from downtown. This is the Rosemont. This is the Rosemont Coliseum for my fellow

old people here. That's what it was known for a long, long time. Yeah. It's in Rosemont, which is right next to the O'Hare Airport, like right next to the airport. So at the very least, it's like easy for travel. It's a very big venue over 18,000 seats

and definitely wouldn't be as hard to get into and share as the United Center. So I actually don't think that's a bad option. Like, I don't think If you have a Chicago team playing in Rosemont, you're offended because that's what the wolves do. And not everyone who lives in Chicago lives downtown Chicago. It's just, I mean, I look at that as it's a much larger scale version of what we talked about with Pittsburgh, right? Is that you have, you have northern suburbs, tons of people live there.

It's the, it's, you know, there are hockey fans in that area. And I think there's benefits to that for sure. Okay. Let's try to move quicker through some of these. We talked about my top two. I'm good. Yeah, Sean doesn't care anymore. I'll carry the rest.

I think Washington, D.C. is interesting. Unfortunately, we're going to start to sound like a broken record a little bit because I do think venues become such a huge part of this conversation. And it was a huge part of the conversation when they were picking the original six. It's why teams like Pittsburgh and Detroit and Washington weren't part of the original six. Because I do think they did discuss teams like this. monumental sports entertainment, which owns the caps. They've been pretty big supporters of women's hockey in the past.

They hosted a few of those showcase events when the PWAHPA was still barnstorming. And Ted Leontes, he's the majority owner of monumental. He said in an interview, like he wants to make D.C. the capital of women's pro sports. So, you know, that's a group there with the capitals and monumental that, and they own the Washington Mystics as well, that they're. They're kind of invested and interested. But I will say outside of Pittsburgh, one of the most likely and more obvious options is Detroit. That is a city that checks so many boxes because the league wants good market size.

This is all the league is said about what they're looking for. They're not trying to put any guardrails up. They're not saying, no, we're not going out west at this point. but what they're looking for is market size, fan base, you know, youth hockey and grassroots opportunities, economic opportunities, in facility. And I think Detroit hits everything except for the facility, once again. This is a really strong grassroots hockey market, especially when it comes to girls hockey. They have a lot of great girls hockey programs, honey baked, little Caesars. And they're also fourth in female registration numbers, according to USA hockey.

In the three states better than them, Massachusetts, Minnesota, of course, Minnesota's first. And New York, those three states have women's hockey programs. So the state of Michigan makes sense for D1 women's hockey, I can add, and also professional women's hockey. The problem is just Little Caesar's arena, like in Washington or Chicago. that has an NBA franchise and an NHL franchise and a ton of concerts. So where do you go? There's like a, is there a shortage of high end?

It seems like there's a shortage of high end ice. Not ice overall because God knows there's plenty of ranks, but like, well, the ring situation in Michigan's actually really interesting. And this was something I found out. It didn't quite make it into the Michigan women's hockey story I did in terms of the university looking for, or people involved with the university looking for a team. A lot of the rinks in Detroit and Michigan in general are like privately owned and they're hard to get into and they it's like privately owned by a group that can basically just jack the price up at will. So getting ice in the Detroit metro area is actually more difficult than you think based on how many hockey rinks are in the area. And then when you're looking at that market, other than Little Caesars, I talked to Max Boltman about this. he left us, but we still speak.

USA hockey arena and Plymouth is interesting. It's 30 miles outside of Detroit. It's not that far. It only has a 3,500 seating capacity, so it would be on the smaller side. You'd basically be looking at a PWHL Toronto situation where you've got 2,500 seats, but it's a hot ticket and everyone wants in,

but the issue in Detroit is where do you grow from there? There isn't just like a Coca-Cola Coliseum that you can bump to. Everybody wanted in in Toronto in the 3,500 seats venue because it was Toronto and it was in downtown Toronto. I think it's a different ask when you're like, how hot of a ticket will it be to go watch in this intimate venue when it's 30 minutes outside the city? People live in Plymouth. That's true. And I mean, whatever. We don't need to get into the whole suburban sprawl issue of the Detroit area because that's a third rail.

But I don't know. It's tough. I think the more I did this, the more I started to think that St. Louis is a really great option for women's pro hockey. And that particularly was true when I was looking at Chicago and realizing that the venue situation was not great. St. Louis might hit every single box. Dedicated hockey market. Blues fans. Produce a lot of players these days too.

Really strong girls youth hockey participation numbers. A lot of youth hockey programs, the Blues specifically have really invested in growing girls and women's hockey. In St. Louis, they have learned to play programs. They hosted PWHPA events. Their CEO has been really open about the desire to host a neutral site game for the PWHL.

and the facilities in St. Louis are much less complicated than some of the other places we've talked about. Blues are the main primary tenant at Enterprise Center, but they also have this $83 million practice facility just outside the city. It's the Centine Community Center. I don't know if I pronounce that right. Beautiful new venue, Lindenwood, the D1 NCAA teams play there. Capacity of around 4,500, so it's smaller, but honestly fine. and I think it would do really well in St. Louis. I think St. Louis, that has the Midwest aspect, too. St. Louis makes a ton of sense to me.

And it's not just because blues fans scare me. I'm joking. I actually really love blues fans. They're my favorite. Anytime I did power rankings, I think it's fun. I love Robert Thomas. You don't have to pander to blues fans here. It's fine.

That's my job. pandering to fan bases via power rankings so what's up with yeah okay oh no

you are gonna ask it yeah none of these teams would be located in Canada so what's up okay so this might just be me

being like dumb or just prefering big American markets over small Canadian ones I don't know

where else you go in Canada other than where you currently are in your first wave of expansion. I don't think if you're announcing in February, here's where we're going. I don't think you want to come out with like, we're going to London. And I say that with love and respect to London, Ontario, where I lived for a time. I had a great time in London. I think Bud Gardens is an awesome junior hockey rink.

I think they changed the name, but it's still the bud to me. The London Knights kill it. But like to me, I don't think that's first wave expansion. It's not a professional. Those are smaller southwestern Ontario, like junior hockey markets. That's not a bad thing. I grew up in southwestern Ontario going to Storms games and Rangers games and nights games.

I just don't think that's where you go in your first wave. So they already kind of hit the big spots in Canada, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto. eventually maybe you go to Hamilton even though I think that cannibalizes Toronto too much because I'm sure a lot of people from the Hamilton area go down for games. Maybe you go to London, maybe you go to Guelph, Kitchener. Like there's nothing wrong with that in the future. So for me, the few other big Canadian markets obviously are out west, Calgary, Edmonton, that's a big...

Hoover, that's like, just launch a step, right? I think so. That's like launch a Western conference altogether kind of situation for me. You go to Seattle, you go to maybe like Denver or L.A. You go to Calgary. You go to Edmonton, although Calgary you probably want to wait for the new arena to be open because the Saddle Dome is, they've got lacrosse, the WHL team. no, the Wrangler is not WHL.

They've got the HL team, the NHL team, and they've got the cross. The dome is busy and it's old. So Calgary should get a team because the Inferno were the final ever Clarks and Cup winners. That was a great franchise. That branding, they should just copy and paste bring that. But it's difficult with the venue. But I do think you go like Calgary, Edmonton, Seattle, Vancouver, just all at once. drop it all at once.

Instant. Frickin awesome. But that's the problem with Canada right now. I think outside of going out west, Quebec City is super interesting. They are hosting a neutral site game in January between Ottawa and Montreal.

They have an 18,000 seat arena, NHL caliber, no NHL team. And people in Quebec City want this to happen. There are people, you know, one of the city councilors said this is like their first big victory. This is their first step in getting a neutral site game or in getting an expansion franchise is hosting this neutral

site game. So that game in January, I'm probably going to try to go to it because I think that's going to be a very interesting audition for if pro women's hockey can work. And there's no reason it shouldn't. They packed that arena for a preseason game between L.A. and Boston this year. What are people, I'm sure there's Bruins fans maybe in Quebec City, but like 18,000 people going to preseason between two teams that have nothing to do with Quebec City. Pretty impressive. And then the other one, I will admit, as I was writing this, I started to talk myself out of it. But I think Halifax is just really cool to consider.

I think going to the Maritimes of the Canadian East Coast would be awesome. There's a venue that would work, the Scotia Bank Center. It's not super busy. It's got a CHL team in there, the Mooseheads. That does pretty well with their attendance. It's 11,000 seats. I think that's an ideal size as we talked about like Chicago. And Halifax might seem like, why are you going to the Maritimes that's so far?

It's actually geographically closer to teams like Montreal, Ottawa, and Boston than Minnesota is to some of those teams. And I think it'd be cool. I think people would pack that barn in the Maritimes. There's a rivalry series game that's going to be hosted there in February. I believe it's game six, the Kennedy-EOSA rivalry series. think that kind of like Quebec City is going to be a huge moment for could pro women's hockey work here? I think that's going to be a pretty big audition, I would say, for a maritime city.

I think there were some teams that I considered that didn't make the final cut for this list that we can quickly bring up. I think Philadelphia is interesting. I did get some comments in the story right away. I'm just being like, why does Philly never get considered for this? I think they can. I just didn't want the list to be 25 teams or whatnot, right? Right. I think Philadelphia, absolutely. Would I be surprised if the league is sending people with the flyers a request for proposal? Absolutely not. I think the flyers could 100% host a women's hockey team. It would be a first for women's pro sport in that market as well, which I think is kind of interesting. I don't think there's a women's pro team in Philadelphia anywhere. There have been, but they're not currently. Not a first, but like as of right now, I guess I should say. Yeah, there's no WNBA team there. the moment. No NWSL. So that's actually kind of interesting. You could be the destination for

for people who want to get in on women's pro sport in that marketplace. I really thought about Wisconsin. I thought that would be super interesting because of the love for the Badgers and hockey and volleyball, particularly the women's teams. But then part of me is like, can we just let the Badgers own Madison. Like, that's an awesome college town. I spent a day there. Let's just let them, like, cook at Lebon to me. Maybe that's dumb, but I think just let that be cool college town. It's a college town. I put that in this, I put them in the same group as London and Halifax and whatever else. Like, that's just not, it's not. No, but it's different because that's like college town that does great with like women sports specifically, whereas London and

Halifax doesn't have that. I think you let the Badgers just be the main event in Madison. Yeah. Not the home of the seventh PWHL franchise. Yeah. So that's just the start of the list. There's so many other markets. Cincinnati would be very cool.

Joe Burrow dropping the puck at the first ever game. These were not meant to be serious suggestions. Columbus. Stop it. Speaking of Columbus. Uh-huh. Very nice. Don Wedell riding a scooter, an electric scooter, in a green lantern costume. That's on Twitter.

I don't know where he's going or what he's doing, but it's incredible. Don't care. Doesn't matter. I don't need any answers. It's at the Blue Jackets official account, so it's Blue Jackets in HL on Twitter. Full disclosure. When producer Jeff sent that tweet to the chat here while we were talking about expansion PWHL cities, I laughed so hard that we had to go in and edit it.

It is extremely funny. I didn't know what I was going to be seeing, but it, man, it just trust me on this one. Sean completely ignored me while I was talking about DC as an option and was just watching Don Waddell on a scooter. on repeat. You, you, you could have, I could have been looking at. I thought it was Ryan Reynolds first. Yeah.

What's Brian Reynolds doing at the Blue Jackets facility? The Halloween gift we didn't know we needed today. Me and an air friar and Don Waddell dressed as the Green Lantern. Do for two. And Sean's too cool for Halloween. He didn't wear a costume. Give it out big bars at the house today. You tell me who's too cool.

Wow. That's like you're going to become the destination. Are you sure you're ready to do that every day for the rest of, every Halloween for the rest of time? People are going to remember. No, I'm not. 1-2-3 Boogie-Wogie Avenue is the big bar. 1-1-1-2 Boogie Avenue is my job. I almost, I almost docks you by mistake.

Yep. Beep-be, boop-boop-boop-boop street. And Pittsburgh is a big bar house. Check it out. Also, you can check out the Prospect series with Max Corey and Scott Wheeler and Flohockey's Chris Peters. Tomorrow, the guys are sharing their early season observations and answering your questions in the mailbag. For Sean, I'm Haley. Thanks for listening to the Olympic Hockey show.