The Athletic Hockey Show - Canada, USA WJC roster options, NHL prospects Corey was wrong about, listener questions, and more

Episode Date: December 9, 2022

Max, Corey, and FloHockey’s Chris Peters are back for a brand new episode of The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series as the guys discuss roster options for Team Canada and Team USA heading into the 2023 World Junior Championships, NHL prospects Corey was wrong about, and a bunch of listener questions in the mailbag to close things out.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody. Max Boltman here alongside Corey Pranman and Chris Peters of Flow Hockey, as always. Back with another episode of the Affletic Hockey Show's Prospect Series. It's December. It's getting to be mid-December, and that means it's getting to be World Junior Time. The U.S. and Canada about to start hosting their camps. Corey, I know you're coming into Metro Detroit for that camp next week.

and obviously every year these are two of the most interesting rosters to watch two of the most prospect-laden teams Canada in particular this year looks like they're going to be a wagon but I want to just dive right in on these teams Corey and Chris and let's start with Canada because obviously the headliners, Brant Clark, Shane Wright, they're going to be there but there's still some open spots on Team Canada and shaping up to be some pretty good roster battles here Right. I mean, kind of what you said, Team Canada is always the team where there's the most debate over who they should bring, who gets cut and or who makes the team. I mean, you saw with this roster that there were three picks in the top 15 of the last NHL drafts. Matthew Savoy, Connor Geeky, and Denton Matechuk didn't even get an invite to the selection camp.

So these are the caliber of talents that we're often talking about with teams. Canada. You know, when you look at this team Canada, there's obviously a lot of returning players from this past summer's team that you think will be on the team and being prominent roles. And you have the NHL loans, like you mentioned, like Shane Wright, Brand Clark. We believe Dylan Genther's going to get loans soon from Arizona as well. He probably will by the time this podcast is released to go with maybe some returning members who played big roles on the previous team like Logan Stan Covent and Connor Bred. but there are some roster battles to be figured out here as well,

given how much talent they have at their camp. In particular, where I'll be interested to see where things land is kind of in that second and third line. I kind of figure that, you know, Zach Dean, Nathan Goshe, Zach Offsichuk, whether they're third or fourth lines, I think those guys are on the team, they'll be the penalty killers, they'll be the muck and grinding type of guys. But who do they kind of assign those secondary. scoring roles too, I think are still things to be determined. Some of the candidates you're looking at would be Zachary Bulldook, who's been very good in the queue the last two years.

You have a guy like Jordan Dume, who's been lighting up the queue this season, but, you know, he's not the biggest guy and not the fastest guy, so there's still some questions there to be answered. Do they go to somebody like Owen Beck, who has been very good in the OHL this season, but as an 18-year-old, and they know, and this tends to be a 19-year-old turn, especially for team Canada. Ryan Green's been very good in college hockey. So it'll be really interesting to see how this all plays out.

I think there's a lot of good candidates here. That Riley Kidney was on this past summer team, a beaten a 13th forward role. Makes me things he might have an inside edge at those top three lines. That being said, I've talked to some evaluators of late who question whether that's the way they go, who would see some other better candidates. So that's the first roster battle I see, and the second one is on the blue line. I think there's a couple of guys that figure are locks.

You know, I mentioned Brian Clark who's been along from the NHL. Olin Zellweger played a big role in this past team. Carson Lambeauce was on this past team. Ethan Delmastro was on the summer teams. I think those five spots are locked in. But Nolan Allen, Tyson Hins, Jagg, Maychier, Evan Nousin, Ethan Samson, I think all have pretty good claims to be on this team. And all he wasn't on the last team, I think, with the way Kevin Cortchance, he has played this season. I think he's a luck to be one of those defensemen on Team Canada.

Well, what's interesting is so often, you know, when it comes down to these battles, and you mentioned Matechuk not even being invited. I think that maybe kind of gives you an inclination here of how these stuff is going to be decided. They're not doing a prospect ranking when they're building these teams. They're looking to find complementary pieces. And when you look at Team Canada's blue line, you have Olin Zellweger, you have Brandt Clark, you have Kevin Korninski, who certainly can bring some offense. I think that kind of kind of tells you that the profile here for what team Canada is going to look for in these final spots is more of that classic, you know, strong defensive defenseman here.

Right. That's why I think a guy like Noel and Allen probably has the inside edge as that want to be that last guy in the regular six, but we'll see how the camp plays out. And the same thing, as the same logic applies to the forwards, you know, you look at, you know, Savoy, geeky, those are offensive-minded players. And I think they probably looked at their line up and felt like we have those guys. We have our power play guys set up. Maybe we need some more two-way guys is that and you know you look at someone like say jordan dumae if they feel that way is he for sure in the starting 12 we'll see how his camp goes obviously he's having a great year it would be hard to leave him home but but maybe maybe that's a he's a he's a sub kind of thing one of those early scratches

who comes in later in the tournament kind of situation yeah we'll see i mean yeah he's just having such a big year in the queue well over two points per game it's a lot of offense um But there's a lot of skill on this team Canada, as there always is. And, you know, you're looking at a top power player unit that may not have Logan Stanko, but it may not have Anna Fantilli, may not have Brandon Offman. Those are all really talented players. So those are usually the kind of things Team Canada is playing with. You mentioned Fantilli.

And Chris, I want to go to you here because always part of the world junior for fans watching at home is sometimes their first real glimpse, extended glimpse at the draft I think by now everyone has seen Connor Bedard. He's played at some World Junior competition already. But Fantilli, I think, you know, presuming he makes the team with the big year that he is off to at Michigan, what do you expect out of Fantilli? And I guess we get out of Badard into that. What do you expect out of Bedard, who even as a draft eligible, is not in his first world juniors anymore here? Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, you know, I think the first thing is you've got to get through the camp, right? It's going to be an intense camp

for for Fantilli um you know i think he even felt uh that he was a little nervous of you know am i going to make it um am i going to make the camp and uh you know i i think that the intensity of that is going to be um you know that's it's such a great prelude to the tournament because the camp is so competitive and you're going up against those guys so i think that's going to be a good thing and i mean he should be there i mean there's no question that he's um among their their best 13 forwards i really like what he has brought to the table um and you know i i think that he is, you know, I think that he is basically, you know, still inexperienced. And, you know, he had an interesting, sometimes rough under 18 world championship,

which is hockey Canada's, you know, most recent experience with him. But at the same time, you know, it's all about having that, that powerful game, the strength, the speed. I mean, he does everything that they need him to do to be an impact player. So I think that that'll be amazing to watch. you know, and just to see how he kind of develops into whatever role they put him in. And, you know, will he, will he be able to crack that high forward group there? And I think Corey wants to jump in here on this one too.

Yeah, I think with Fantilli, I think when you look at this line up and what I think about the player, I think he should be a top six forward on this team Canada, but it's not a presumed thing that he will be. I think in part because of what Chris mentioned, that his last international tournament of the UA teams, he was, you know, good, but nothing special. when he went to the U-20 camp in the summer for Team Canada, again, good, but nothing outstanding. But now he enters this camp as a second leading score in college hockey. There hasn't been a lot of president of that kind of collegiate player,

especially as a draft eligible, entering a world junior camp for Team Canada. So it'll be interesting to see what happens, you know, because he emerged through the selection camp as a premier player on this roster, or does he kind of settle into something like what Quentin Bifield was, in his draft year where he was kind of like a fourth line guy, second power play, not a regular even strength. So I think if Fantili does still have stuff to prove at this selection camp, when they play the youth sports teams this upcoming weekend. Yeah.

And, you know, I mean, we already know kind of we've seen Conradart at this level and we've seen what he can do. And I don't think there's any doubt that, you know, he's going to be an impact player for them. I think the addition of Shane Wright, you know, and having another guy that they can put down the middle, you know, allows them to. to have some more flexibility with Fantilli in terms of fanning him out to the wing or doing something where they can can maximize his scoring potential and then still have really, you know, feel, feel comfortable in their own end as well.

I feel like that's an interesting dynamic where when I've, when I've been trying to map out this team Canada and talking to people who would have an idea what this team Canada is going to look like. The presumption is Bedard's playing center and Fantili might be a wing. But when you talk to NHL people about their pro futures, it's presumed Fantili. is a center and badard might be a wing so it's interesting how that doesn't line up completely with what we're seeing right now with the 20s yeah yeah we'll have to wait and see where where they all end up i mean they have sure good options it's just amazing amazing to see kind of you know you look at that forward group and you're like wow there's a lot of good problems to have here because there's

so many good players and um you know whether and i could i could totally see that with fantilli fanning out to the wing as well but um but yeah i mean i i think yeah i think yeah the most recent conversations I've had with NHL scouts too, you know, asking around, is like is Badaara a center or a wing? And I'll say, I mean, not all of them, but a lot of them say wing. You know, like they view them as a wing more, more comfortably. And I think there's a couple of players on Team Canada there that we're not really sure whether they're going to be centers or wing.

I look at say Logan Stanko been on this team. He's played a lot of center in the WHL, but off late has been a wing more often for for Camloops. And I'll be really interesting to see what the top three lines. centers are for Canada. There's several good candidates there. Obviously, if they would have gone out of Wyatt Johnson, it would have been obvious. I'll be interesting to see, you know, does, do they bring somebody like, you know, oh, in fact, do they bring somebody like Colton Dock into that mix because they feel they need like a true center down the middle or do they use

somebody like Stan go over there? Does Fantilli become the third line center? It'll be to see what the options are. And I think Team USA has similar questions at the center position. Well, let's go to them then because obviously every year, Team USA, especially around these parts, is just as attention grabbing. And this year, I think one of the big questions is how many of the program kids are going to make it at. I think coming into the year, we were maybe looking at, like, is it going to be just kind of one guy going to make this? And I guess we had Charlie Stramel, who's still a draft eligible, who's no longer with the NTPs. But he's at Wisconsin now. But now you've kind of got Will Smith in this conversation, Ryan Leonard in this conversation.

All of a sudden you have some interesting draft eligibles for Team USA as well, and obviously the usual roster battles. I think the number two goalie could be an NCDP kid too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, Augustine may even end up starting some games, too. You never know, like the way that this is going to play out. But, you know, I would say that, you know, Will Smith, I think, is a lock for the team.

He's one of the most dynamic players they have in the camp. And he's another guy where I think that he's a lot. a natural center that more than likely ends up on the wing for Team USA. That's another guy where NHL scouts are saying, is he a center? Is he a wing? You know, having that debate, you know, are the defensive skills good enough to, you know, to be able to play at that level. I think he's a center.

I do, too. I like him. I mean, he drives play so well. Like, I, you know, I think, like, you know, there were a lot of the same questions about Trevor Zegris in his draft year and it's working out pretty well for him down the middle. And this guy's a better skater than Zegris, too. Yeah, exactly.

So, you know, I would say that, you know, a lot of the U.S. brought 18 forwards to camp. Returning player, Sasha Pasadjov was not one of them. So that's a bit of a surprise that, you know, they didn't have it. You bring 18 forwards and he's not one of the 18. That was a little bit surprising. I know a lot of people were surprised about Ty Void, who's leading the O HL in scoring as well. But I think that they have their top six, you know, they pretty dialed in. And that's, you know, when we're talking about competing for roster spots, you're not

competing for one of 18 spots. And more times than not, you're competing for one of two. Like, you know, you're not, you're basically, am I the first line wing? Am I the second line wing? And if you're not one of those two things, you're not on the team because you don't necessarily fit the role. I mean, now teams definitely go with like a third line is more of a scoring line at this tournament. And it will be for the U.S. as well. But again, it's like, you know, once, where are we leaving things on the table? But getting back to the draft eligible guys, you know, I think Will Smith is a lock. Ryan Leonard is going to be a little bit in tougher to make it. He has to prove that he can play at the pace that these guys do. He's got that grittiness to him that I think is enticing, but he also scores a lot of goals.

He's definitely in the mix, firmly in the mix to be, you know, probably a scoring depth option for this team. So, yeah, but and then Stramel, who also was on the team last year, a little bit of a on the bubble right now. He hasn't had a great season at, at Wisconsin. He's not producing necessarily. So he has to be able to show that he can do other things. And he also has to stay out of penalty trouble as well. That's a big factor in this tournament. And it weighs heavily in the decision process. If a coach can't trust you in this tournament, then they're not going to play you.

Or they're not even going to bring you. I saw that with Stramel at the summer tournament where I believe in the one pre-tournament game he got regular in action. I think he took two or three minor penalties. And then lo and behold, he didn't get any ice time when the real game started. Well, usually even in that kind of situation, though, a returner. you're penciling in as a lock, but I wonder if this being the first tournament post-Nate Lehman-era, maybe there's even less kind of to a guarantee kind of feeling of who's going to carry over.

I got to imagine that Leonard, Stramel, and the other draft eligible Gavin Brindley are all fighting for the same roster spot. Who would you, who would you lean right now if I had to, if I gave you one? I think Leonard's in the rotation. And I think one of those other two are the 13th, or fighting for the 13th forward anyways. There's also going to be some really interesting conversations to be had on D. I mean, obviously, I think, you know, Luke Hughes, I think we can confidently say is going to be running the first power play for Team USA, I would think. But you also got some other offense there.

I mean, Lane Hudson's having an amazing freshman year. Shai Bouem is a guy who's looked good at USA camps in the past and can play an offensive role. Seamus Casey is having an unbelievable year. Are we sure that he even makes this roster? There's some real tough cuts that are going to have to be made on this USA Blue Line. Sean Barron ran this power play at the same age. You know, there's a lot of skill. And other than William and Hughes, I think all of the defensemen they invited are like 511 or shorter.

Yeah. Yeah, I think Chesley is the only one. I think he's six foot. But yeah, but that's and that's a huge thing. Like, I mean, you know, we don't want to focus too much on size, but we have to. You know, I mean, when you look at the size of Canada's forward group, group and you say, well, we've got a decor that's all puck moving, you know, they're mobile, they're good skaters, they move puck's well, they can do a lot of those things. It's not the

strongest group when it comes to natural defending. I mean, you know, like even Shy Booiam, who is one of the biggest players is not, he's a good defender. He's not an elite defender. And I don't think they actually have one on this roster. Right. I mean, I mean, you look at all the sides of those defensemen, it's, it's great that they have the skating and the skill. But when Dylan Gantther, Shane Wright, Brennan Offman, and Fantilli are bearing down on you. That's a lot of size and speed and competitiveness in those players. And I think they're going to, I mean, you hate to just be thinking about Team Canada when you're building out Team USA because obviously you're trying to build the best team possible. But realistically, to win a gold medal, you have to beat Team Canada.

So you almost have to think about how do we beat Team Canada when making this roster. I don't have any issue with viewing it that way. I think that's the team you go through. what I think ultimately Team Canada tends to just be the most talented collection. Every team is kind of, you know, if you can beat Canada, you should be able to beat anyone. Maybe there's certain match-up things that, you know, if you play too much to try to defend speed and you're not ready for heaviness. But I think this year especially, I don't think there's any aspect of Team Canada that a good team in this tournament is going to surprise you with that they don't have.

Yeah, I think the difference between Canada and the rest of them is pretty significant. You look at the Sweden roster who didn't get Simon Evanson, who would have Matias Habel and Alia Salomon set out due to an injury. that roster does not look other than the fours are good but they're not I don't think that that roster by itself looks incredible. Finland's roster isn't look incredible. I mean you got to you like said you got to go through Canada to win this tournament. Yeah one thing that kind of unites these these two teams and maybe we can talk about it together for that reason I will say for as good as the rosters can be in net is a big question I would say for both of them Canada I think we expect

Benjamin Goddrow to be the guy there to me to say okay well okay well that tells you something right there Yeah. And Chris is talking about potentially Trey Augustine getting some starts for Team USA as the tournament plays on. I think the USA has major questions and goal, and I would argue the questions are even bigger for Canada. Yeah, I tend to agree with that, too, because I think that, you know, the thing about USA's situation right now is, you know, Caden Americo actually started last year. And he's had a very good season at Colorado College. But he's not consistent. Like he's not a guy that you can say he does all the things that we want our goaltenders to do to, you know, coaches like predictability.

He's not predicted. Like being taller than 5'11. Yeah, that too. And then, you know, and Trey Augustine is actually, he's actually had one of, as of right now, his save percentage is one of the highest in the history of the NTDP in a single season. And embarrassing is really good too. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, it's pretty incredible what they're doing. but the but yeah but I mean then you look you look at you look at Canada's roster and you look at

the goaltending and you just say I don't know like there is not a starter here there is not a guy that I could say yes this is the guy that is going to carry the mail for us the whole way yeah I mean gudrault's say percentage is underwater right now I think it's like 880 or something about with Sarnia Thomas Millich has been splitting starts in Seattle with rats left William Rousseau who's been having a nice year in Quebec, but he's a smaller goalie, and the Q's quality is, I would say, a little bit down over the last few years

in terms of the quality of opponents he's facing every night. So it's tough for me, and Tyler Brennan's not having a great year either. So I honestly don't know who the opening night starter is for Canada, and I think they're going to be using that camp to kind of figure that out. Yeah, take the over in the games. But, man, you look around, on the tournament and it's like it's not just those two right like who's the who's the goalie

in this tournament like who would be your bet for the top goal tender in this tournament it's really unclear um so we'll see uh the other big question had for us a say with cheers get your opinion chris is what do you think the top three line centers look like whether opening day or throughout the tournament because when i've been trying to put together a roster it's not really 100% clear to me what the way they should go is And I think the big debate is, is Cutter Goce a wing or a center on this team? Presuming that Chas Lucius is healthy and is a center on this team. Yeah, yeah.

Chas Lucius' health is a pretty significant factor in what's going to happen for Team USA. And I would say, I mean, I think Logan Cooley is clearly the number one center by a long, long, long way. And then you got Chas Lucius. And then after that, I do think that Goce is going to end up on the wing, not because he's not a good center, but because he was so good with Cooley and Snuggaroo, and that's a line that, you know, I've always thought, why not manufacture, you don't have to manufacture chemistry with those guys.

They already have it and just let that line be the one that leads your team. And that's a, you know, theoretically, you could have them together for two years at this tournament, theoretically. Are we not giving Jivis Snuggaroo enough love right now? We're not, because he is one of the best, like, what he's doing right now, at Minnesota is absurd. You know, like he is, he is the leading score on one, in my opinion, the best team in

the country. And he is a driving force for their offense and just scores big goals. Like every goal he scores seems to be meaningful. And I mean, he's, he has really taking his game to the next level. And then on top of that, he's rugged. He gets, he has work ethic. He's got all these different things that you can do. But to get back to your question, too, like, I think that number three center spot is

really in flux. You've got guys like Red Savage, who's a returnee, who's more on the, you know, gritty kind of grindy side, and it's not necessarily offensive. You know, is Kenny Connor is going to be a winger, a center on this team as well? That's another guy where I think, you know, you play him down the middle. He gives you some good minutes. Stramel, you know, is the offense there enough? Is it, can he, can he drive a third line? You know, that's a huge question for them.

So, you know, and I think that they, I think the plan is at least at this point, is to have Will Smith play on the wing. in this tournament. But he's another guy where he say, I could see him down the middle in a scoring role. But I just think with his age and with his, you know, he's not as strong as some of the other guys. It might be harder for him to do it. So that to me is really where, you know,

they also have Noah Labba in camp as well, who's a bigger center, who's got some more, you know. But so, like, those are some of the guys that we're talking about. It's not, it's not, you know, it's certainly not a position where you say, ugh, you know, like I really, this scares me. This is a group that, that gives us. me some concern about the tournament. And that's why I think, Corey, to your point, you know, you have to at least consider Cutter Goce as a center, especially if you have to make adjustments

in the middle of the tournament. You're like, hey, our centers just aren't strong enough because he's done a very good job at BC this year. Yeah, we've talked before, not on the podcast about whether Red Savage is a good fit on the third line center here, the Detroit winnings pick, who we know they're a fan of because of his compete level of his hockey sense, but whether there's enough speed in skill, especially for a smaller guy, to really be a driving at that, driving player at that position at this level. I think he's got to prove it. And whether it's through the camp or the free tournament, I got to imagine that the

line setter spot is in flux. Absolutely. All right. Let's get into now Chris's favorite segment of the show today. Yes. Which is where we are going to talk about. That was only kind of evil. Corey does an annual article.

called prospects I was wrong about, which I thought it was hilarious, Corey. Whoever runs our social media was having a lot of fun tweeting about the picks that you were wrong about. But, and I know Chris is going to have that much fun as we get into that today here. A couple of themes, and the first one, I think, is the prospects you were too low on. It certainly seems like you talk about Matthias Samuelson, Kandre Miller, Kaden Gouli is on this list. The big two-way defenseman was a blind spot that you really wanted.

wanted to key in on. Yeah, I think there's a definite trend that I've seen in my prospect rankings. You know, Jake Sanders was on this one, this time last year, too, look how good he's been in the pros this season, one of the best rookies in the NHL this season. Samuelson's playing such a huge role on a strong Buffalo team, maybe not strong in record, but by the net out there, a really strong team. Kianne Miller played a huge role in that playoff run for the Rangers last season. I know he hasn't been as strong this season, but still an excellent young player.

Caden Gouldy has been awesome as a rookie in the NHL. I think I definitely had to adjust my process to not be so narrow-minded about the offense that these type of players were producing and focus on the traits that translate into being good pros, which tend to be mobility, competitiveness, and yes, size, even though I know that could be a dirty word to you sometimes. for people in when evaluating prospect. I mean, those things tend to translate well. And I'm trying, I even seen this in this previous draft. Like, I was probably too low on Pavlampinov, who's having a great year,

probably too low on Kevin Kornczynski, who's having an outstanding year in the Western League too. You know, I've tried to adjust this in my most recent prospect rankings. I know it's a big reason why I have David Reinbacher and Dimitri Simechab so high. and I think there's a lot of pro traits they both of them bring that that look similar to some of those guys that I've that I was too low on previously. But I'm sure Chris will take a victory lap because I know he was a Keondre guy all the way through. And I believe a googly guy as well. And a Samuelson guy.

Yeah. So three for three. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, yeah, I think I think the thing with, especially with Keandre, part of part of the evaluation for me was that, there was so much room for him to grow because he hadn't played defense that long in his in his young career. He had been a converted forward and you saw some of the tendencies. He was still learning the position. I think you got to give a lot of credit to, you know, the NTP for really honing in

on some of the things that he did because I think he's a better defender now than he was back then. And, you know, we were definitely concerned about, you know, would the offense come along with it. But it just turned out that, well, he's an amazing skater. He's got strength. He's got like all these tools that are going to help him at both ends of the ice, which they have. And then the other thing about Matthias Samuelson is I think, you know, he's shell Samuelson's son. So he has his father that played a long time in the NHO. He played a very mature game then. He was physical.

He had good enough mobility. You know, some of those NTP defensemen, they don't produce a whole lot. Like there aren't a ton of guy like Quinn Hughes has, Cam York did. But there are a lot of guys that are, you know, like, we talked a lot about production with Jake Sanderson and nobody's really worried about, you know, necessarily. I mean, neither Keandre or Samuelson were on the power play by the end of the season. Yeah, exactly. I mean, those, and that can happen in that, in that setting with that NTP team. And they, you know, so that that's, that's another factor.

But yeah, but I mean, I never, I try not to get wrapped up into, you know, where the defensemen are on the power play and stuff as either. It is. It matters. I mean, it's certainly an indication of what, you know, what their team thinks of their offensive capabilities. but I think a lot of teams, especially in junior hockey, are going with the four forwards on the power players. Some of them are doing five forwards on the power play every once in a while. And Cam York was on that team by the end. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

So, I mean, like that. And then he's the more dynamic element. So, yeah, I don't know. I think in those, I was just looking, you know, I had Keanjari 17th in that draft and Matthias 27th. I mean, in hindsight, it's even still too low. You know, so that's the, you know, know, I'll take the summit, the little victory lap, but it's still, it's, you know,

that's, that just goes to show you how difficult it is to do this. And, but yeah, but when you have toolsy guys like that and guys that play, um, I just thought Mathias Samison was one of the smarter defenders. Um, and, and that's borne out, you know, he's, he's done that at the NHL level. Sam Wilson wasn't always clear it was going to work out this way. When I talked to a lot people, even people scouts, who are fans of the player when he was at Western, they weren't 100% sold this was going in a positive direction. It wasn't really until he turned pro and that first year in Rochester where I started like, oh, hey, they've really got something here. Yeah, no, that's a very fair point, very fair points. And, yeah, and, you know, I didn't touch on Gully though, but Gouley,

the thing I always liked about him is I just, I've always loved his skating. And I think that that's just been such a foundation of his game. And then he's highly intelligent. He's just gotten better and better every year. So, you know, guys that have that good foundational skating, then have the size, have a little bit of physical edge to them. They, they, they, they, they, they tend to work out pretty well. But not all, not always, but, but, but I think he, he in particular was very good in that regard. Why I just thought his gap controls and the amount of stops he makes. It reminds me of Sanderson a little bit too, like the same thing where just, just, just he would, I don't know if his skating was similar to Sandy, but like, just because he's just so physical,

he just always seemed to make a lot of stuff. And the question was kind of like what was with those other guys is how much offense does he have. But he still produced, you know, 40 points in the draft year. It wasn't, you know, outstanding offense. But it was good enough to go with, you know, probably shouldn't have dinged him too much on that. Because there was enough there to go with the other things that he was bringing. Yeah. Samison's contract, too, is something I want to touch on really quick here because I think that's a, it's a, one of those contracts that at the time it was signed,

you're going, okay, it's a little bit unproven to give a guy six years, I think it's four and a quarter. How is that contract going to age now, having seen, you know, even just a little more sample into the start of the season? I think it'll age fine. Like, I don't know if they're going to get massive value on it, but they could get good value on it for sure. I mean, it's, he looks like he's a top four defenseman.

And that's what those guys get paid. And he'll probably get paid more in a couple of years as if the cap does go up. You know, again, will he be like this really high? end two-way guy. I'm not sure he's there yet, but could he be a really nice topboard defenseman? Yeah, sure. I think the contract looks fine. And they need to take that kind of gamble, given some of the big pay days they're going to give out some of their young guys in the relatively near future. But it was funny. I was, so we're recording this on the eve of the Tage Thompson five goal game. Yeah. And I remember we had a conversation on this podcast just shortly ago about whether that about the Tage Thompson contract. and whether that was, you know, good value or not.

And I think, I forgot what Chris and I said precisely. I think I said, I thought it was fine. I didn't have an issue with it. I didn't think it was going to be like this massive steel. But I thought we agreed it was, I don't think we killed the contract. I don't think we either said this was a massive steel either, which it's kind of looking like it right now. Oh, it looks like great value now. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, when you score five goals in a game and you're dominating and you're also six foot eight or six foot seven, it's just insane what he's doing. He's probably one of the most exciting players to watch in the league right now just because it doesn't look like it should work. But getting back to Samuelson, I mean, getting a top four defensemen with some cost certainty for an extended period of time for under $5 million is a pretty good piece of business.

And you have to know, the thing is, you know, teams think they know their players best and they often do, more often than not they do. And, you know, it doesn't, from the out. Outside it doesn't look. You're like, you're like, what, he's not, he doesn't score goals. Like, well, no, but he plays a really reliable defensive game and he moves Pucks extremely well. And he's, you know, a beast in his own zone.

So, you know, I mean, yeah, I think that long term, he's a foundational piece for their team. And we'll be playing on that blue line for a real long time. The moving Pucks thing was the, was the part I wasn't a way sure about. Because I thought you saw it at times in the program. And then when I thought I got to college, he'd, didn't move puck well consistently. I thought.

But then when he turned pro, I think he just kind of got his bearing a little bit. And as long as what I found is in the theme of this, as long as it's secondary offense, you don't need to be the primary guy who creates offense. You don't need to be Dalline out there. But, you know, if he could just make a good, if you're that big and mobile and physical, if you can just make a decent outlet pass, you can be a really good player. I got to think they're hoping that it turns out similar to the way that like a Brett Peschi contracted in Carolina.

And I said six years, it's actually seven. So even longer for that to catch up with a rising cap and look like pretty good value down the line. I think especially with his age, I like it now. I was unsure about it in the summer, but I like where it's headed. Cora, the next section of your prospects I was wrong about list was players you were too high on. And if we're going to kind of stick with trends here, one of them might be kind of evaluating the big skilled sense. We're talking about Cody Glass and Yaspari Kotkinemi, two guys who made the list, Glass, a sixth overall pick, cock Keneyemi, a third overall pick.

So you were far from out on an island here. This is where the industry had these guys as well. What has changed in your mind about these two guys and maybe more specifically this player type? They are big skilled centermen, but I think at the time there were significant concerns about their skating ability. and a little bit like Glass was his competitiveness and Cockney-E-M-E-E-M-E was, you're skilled, but I don't know if it's like out of this world type of skill, especially given your skating ability.

And I think there were times you could have watched them and some flags would have come up. The flags that I mentioned like Glass's U18 Worlds, for example, was really poor. And you wondered like about the pace and his energy level there. And Cockney-E-M-E never really scored at a big level. anywhere. I think the, you know, really, he didn't really have like a really, I would say, outstanding performance until he, you know, those last international permits is February, five nations, and then the U18 world in April, where Finland won. And I think those are the kind of things I'm struggling with, you know, a theme really from this whole thing is the value of

skating is that, you know, I think sometimes I get mocked by our readers when I harp on skating too much, but it matters. It really goes into the risk factor. There are time, many times, where guys who aren't good skaters become good players. Heck, the guy who might be the MVP of the league this year, Jason Roberts did, isn't a good skater. But there's a lot of examples where that does not happen. And I think with those two, their pace, energy, and skating were things that despite their size and their skill, held them back ultimately as pros. And they're still, I think, could be good players.

Kockenemy has had good games this year, like, even though he's not scoring at a big rate, but I think those are the things that are holding them back from being like really impactful pros. Yeah. The other thing too, I mean, with these guys, it's always about like who was picked around them, who could have you picked instead and all that. And it's not that fair, but, you know, I mean, Montreal could have had Brady Kachuk, just saying.

So not saying it, just saying it. The thing is like a lot of people, the thing about Yes, Barry Kakenemi, I just want to mention is that his push was late. Like it was like in terms of like he was a steadily building player where you're like, okay, okay, I can see it. I can see it. I can see it. You know, he's got the size.

He's got the skill. He's a dominant player at the U18 level. You know, he's been good. He's got good numbers. Like it all is there. And then boom, you're like, you know, yeah, it's, it's weird how it works out sometimes. But here's what, so Corey and I remember talking about this last year. in the lead up to the draft because we were talking about it with Gautier.

We were like, I wonder if anyone's ever studied how the late push guys pan out. And just anecdotally, I felt like the more that I was thinking of, the more they did, right? Like a Sanderson felt like a late push guy in that COVID year. And he obviously has panned out. Gotee seems to be on a good trajectory there. Like, I think it's fascinating to just think about. Cider. Yeah, right.

Cider was a late push guy. He has panned out. I don't know. Usually that seems to me like something that kind of is predictive. I mean, sometimes, but it's always like what is the purpose of the push? Is it because the industry is shifting on them? Or is it because they've actually improved? Like, you know, like, and that's the thing.

I mean, you got to weigh that. And I think in Goce's case, it was the, you know, the comfort with him being a center and, you know, being at his size and all that stuff. And then you get, you know, Sanderson, it was like, well, the numbers aren't great. But gosh, he does everything well. And he's a dominant player in international play. and he was, you know, his numbers did improve over the course of that season. And then I think it was cider, it was just more people, more and more people finding out about him. You know, like, see, that's another thing.

McCar pushed late, you know, Pedersen, Kepunumans of the year went on there. And in 2017, 2016, Du Bois kind of pushed late. So I get where Max is coming from. Yeah, for sure. All right, fellas, into the mailbag we go. And we're going to pick up on kind of our USA conversation here with one from Jonathan P. He says,

Hughes running power play one for the world juniors. Who gets power play to Lane Hudson or Seamus Casey? Chris, let's start with you. Man, that's a tough one. It might be neither, honestly. I think Hudson has the inside track among those two. And I think that Casey has to prove, like he's on the bubble right now.

You know, it's not that he's not a good player. He is very good. He's one of the younger defensemen. He's a right shot that helps his case. But they got a lot of guys that play very similarly to him. And then they've got Jack Peart and they have Sean Barron's, both of whom have power play experience, have played on the power play at a World Junior Championship,

Peart a little bit more than Barron's. They kind of switched off in the Summer World Juniors last year. Barron's has track record. He was a top power play guy in his U-18 season as well. So it could very like I personally think you got to get you find it. You got to find a spot for Lane Hudson on the power play. It's one of the reasons that you're bringing him. He's a dynamic passer.

He makes plays. He gets pucks down low extremely well. I think you have to have them in there. Whereas I think, you know, Casey has far more competition. And I don't, I don't necessarily think that he's going to be a strong candidate for that. Given how much skills on this U.S. blue line, I could see a scenario where you do the two D-Men on the second unit. Agreed. Yeah, that very well could happen. Yeah. I think for me, it would be Barron's in Hudson.

Yeah. But yeah, I think he appears got to be in the mix. I said he was literally a power play on this guy on this team last year. Before the winter one exploded, it looked like he was taking Scott Morrill's job in that role. And then, yeah, I mean, Barron's led this age group. But, yeah, I mean, I get the enticement of put Casey on there because he's a point per game freshman right now. He's looked really good with Michigan. But there's just, they have too much skill on their blue line, which is a good thing.

But they also need somebody who can make a stop once in a while, too. Is there any world where you would do that on PowerPlay 1? Because I almost feel like among these guys, which one would I want on the flank, the answer might be Luke. Yeah, I mean, I think he's going to play the top, though. I think that first power play, you've got Jimmy Snuggarood, Cutter Goce, Logan Cooley, who else am I leaving out, Corey? I have options. Lucius.

Lucius. I mean, like, there are so, like, you got the big shots with Gochay and Snuggiero, like, it's hard to, it's hard to see it. You just want to make sure that you're, you know, I think they're going to have pretty balanced power play units, but I do think that there's a, there's a strong possibility that second unit's going to be 2D. I just wonder which of those D has a big enough shot to realistically play. You want a shot threat from the flank.

Like do Hudson or Barons, can they rip a puck from the flank that's going to scare you on a one-timer? No, I think their best shot is probably Luke's. And I don't think the shot's like amazing, but it's probably the best of the options, I think. Yeah. Yeah, I'd agree. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe boo him, but maybe.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Maybe they do that second unit is like a Colorado avalanche look where it's just all defenseman on the sex. Yeah, just let's get Sam Gerard out. Yeah, I mean, like that's the crazy thing. I mean, like, Lane Hudson's one of the most dynamic players on the team. You know, like, it's just like, you know, you can throw him out there in a lot of different situations. Maybe he'll be the bumper. I'm all in on this. Richard S has a kind of a funny one. I'm going to read it to you. You're going to roll your eyes at first, but I think there's an interesting conversation we had. So he pointing out the fourth overall pick in the last six drafts, Kail McCar, Brady Kachuk, Bowen Byram, Lucas Raymond, Luke Hughes, Shane Wright, nowadays is the fourth

overall pick the best pick to have. Obviously, no team is going to prefer to pick fourth than first. But the conversation I think is kind of interesting here is, is there something about this spot in the draft, whether it's three, four, five, whatever it might be, where teams kind of get liberated from this public consensus that tends to build up? Is there anything to that? That was the first thing that kind of jump into my mind. When I see that trend, what comes to my mind is that we've had a couple of drafts in a row without like a runaway number one overall pick where it's been close enough, whether it's been power, whether it's been Lefrenier, whether it's been Slavkovsky, where you don't feel like, yeah, they're the top player, but they're not McDavid and they're not Nathan McKinnon.

And it's not that type of player at number one. So I think that's been part of it. At least that's what be my opinion. So yeah. Yeah, I think there's that's a good factor. And I just do think that picking number one, there is a lot of pressure. You got to give the HABs quite a bit of credit for saying, I know what everybody's saying.

And there were people with 51. you know, red jerseys in the crowd and everything else. And, uh, Ruse jerseys, sorry. Um, and, uh, they like, you know, that, that's a lot of pressure that puts on you. But then, you know, you're also getting things selected for you. And suddenly your list is narrowing down. And you might have a guy that you had second that you get at fourth or you might have a guy that you had first at fourth.

I think this year in particular, it's a great time to have the number of four pick. I think ideally you want to have a top three because then you get, you know, one of the guys that are most likely to go in that range. But, I mean, you have the number of four pick. What if it's Matt Veimichkov? And all of a sudden, you've got this dynamic player, you know, or if it's Leo Carlson or if it's, you know, if Adam Van Tilly slips down there, you know, like those are the different things.

I don't think that'll happen. But, you know, like, I think that, you know, you kind of have things kind of selected for you. And then, you know, but at the same time, yeah, you're not like, I mean, like, you look at Lucas Raymond, do guys like that, Luke Hughes. I mean, you could have made cases for them to be anywhere. in that top three, top two, you know, kind of situation. And yeah, but I mean, I think it's good.

It's just we have a lot of good players and they're, they're, you know, the teams that are in that number four range are still have the ability to pick an impact prospect. And I should say of those players we just read off. I'm not sure really any of them are the slam dunk, except McCar, the slam dunk best player in their class. I mean, we're still love Rasmus Dahlene. We still love Jack Hughes, maybe more than ever right now. Tim Stutzel looks amazing.

You know, 2021, I think it's still early. 2022, it's obviously early. But I do think it's interesting consistency of some pretty good players being picked there. I thought it was a good topic from Richard S. Evan Jay wants to know, what do you make of the Sabres, Young Guns, Peturka, and Quinn, not to mention Rosen and Coolidge and Rochester. What does this team need to do to make the playoffs? What does this team need to make the playoffs?

A veteran right D. One more solid top line forward. Levi to be a legit number one, and why didn't Savoy make the junior team? A lot of questions there. Let's zero in on. What do you make of the young guns? And what do they still need to become a playoff team? I mean, I think if they had a decent goalie, they'd be a playoff team right now. And I know the argument I hear back is, well, Craig Anderson's been solid this year. But the issue is, you know, he's in his 40s. You can't play 60 to 65 reliable starts a year. If you can do that, he could play the way he was playing 65 times a year. Yeah, they'd be in better shape,

but he's not because he's a goalie in his 40s. I mean, that's the biggest issue I see on this team is if they would have even, if they would have this past off season addressed the goal-tending situation in a meaningful way, which they didn't. It was they, they're, they did a waiver claim with Eric Conry towards the end of the preseason. Then I think they would be a playoff team right now. And I think that's the biggest thing they've got to address going forward right now. Because I think they're like either I think first or second in the league and goals per game right now. It's a dynamic offense.

Again, it's a young team. And someone will argue they live a lot of scoring chance because they're so young. But even in that sense, like when you look at how they're playing, how much they have the puck, how many scoring chances they get per game, this should be a playoff team right now. And I think it's just because of how good the young guys have been. That line with Peturka and Quinn had been really good. but who's centering that line and is looking even better has been Dylan Cousins. That guy looks like a star right now.

A true star center in the league. I think they've got two legit number one centers in him and Tage Thompson right now to go with the outstanding play of Rassan Stelene, who is looking like a true elite defenseman and elite right now. This team looks like it should be an emerging contender, but they've got to fix the goaltending situation. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they have a deep goalie prospect pool, but that's not going to solve your problems in the immediate future.

And maybe not for a few years. And I don't think you can bank on Den and Levi solving all your problems. I think I like David Levi a lot. He's a very good goalie. Numbers are a little bit down this year from last year, but still a very good goalie prospect. But you can't bank on the 6-0 guy stepping in and being a 60-game starter for you. Yeah. And you can't bank on Portillo even signing with you at this stage.

Correct. Peca Lukanan hasn't been very good as a pro either. Right. Yeah, so you're just hoping, yeah, there's a lot of hope in that, in that position at this point, which there are so often is at the goaltending position. But, you know, the one thing that I'll say is that, gosh, are they fun to watch? I mean, I love watching the Buffalo Sabres play hockey right now. And when was the last time we could say that, you know, and I think that there's a lot there.

The pieces are there. You know, you got to address the goaltending at some point, whether it's through trade or free agency. It's not going to be, it's not a long-term sustainable thing. You need a stop gap. If you really believe in Levi or if you really believe. leave in UPL or any, you know, if you think that those guys are coming, you know, find a good stop gap that that will help get you over the hump here a little bit. You know, I mean, you think back and having like a, you know, a Darcy Kemper for,

for Colorado was the was the little stop gap that they needed to kind of get to the next phase of their, their organization. And, you know, there are goleys like that out there. So, you know, I think that for me and then just to, you know, I think Peturka and Quinn, you know, they're all doing tremendous. things. The guys in the Rochester right now, super impressive with Rosen and Kulich, just, you know, putting up very strong numbers for players of their age, you know, for U20 guys in the HL. So there are layers to the Sabres organization in a way that there hadn't been previously.

And that's a good thing. But now you just have to figure out a way to address the, address the goaltending. I really didn't like Rosen last year with this club or the end up for the world juniors. So it's been pretty promising scene we've been doing in Rochester where he's looked like good, he's been, you know, good versus men. I think this world junior will be really important for him to see if he can elevate and become an impactful player versus his own age group. And Cool, which is just awesome for, you know, his trajectory just keeps going up and up and up over the last, say, 12 or so months. And I think you can start having, you keep the questioner asked about Matthew Savoy, who didn't make the world junior team. And even though when I've watched him this year,

both live and on video. I think he's looked pretty good. Fact is, he's a 5-9-4 who's not scoring at a big rate, and it's tough to bring that guy to a world junior team, even though he has the skating and the skill and the competitiveness. It's just tough to bring that kind of player who's an offensive minor player when he's not scoring. But honestly, I think you could have a really interesting debate right now. You know, they took Savoy, the ninth overall, the Nooslin 15th overall. I think you can have a really reasonable argument that Coolidge might be the best of those three players right now. I'm not saying he is, but I think you can start having that discussion right now.

Yeah. All right. We got one from a fellow by the name of Chris Peters, who asks specifically to Corey if there was a fire, and me and this Chris Peters fellow were trapped on opposite ends of a building. Which of us would you save first? Huh. That's an interesting one. Be careful how you answer this.

You know, Chris almost couldn't join us for the mailbag today. And I was really counting on that to save me here because I think Corey would not tell me to my face without Chris present that he would pick Chris. He's certainly been friends with Chris longer. That is fair. Now, I have further questions to ask to this Chris Peters about this question. There are no follow-ups in the mailbag. How bad is this fire? Like is my life in danger if I save one of you two or this is a the dark night situation like we're Rachel and Harvey Dent in this situation.

Yeah, that is 100% was in my head, Max. So you know what? Since he gets it, you know, save Max first. I'll, I'll sacrifice myself for Max. Oh, you're pulling the Harvey Dent here. So I have only enough time to save one of you two, but I'll be okay. Yes. Okay, because that's ultimately that really matters.

that I'm okay. The show will go on as long as Corey survives. By the way, this fire was surely started by arson judge. I think we can all agree on that. Yes. That guy. Although I would be really scared of what would happen if Chris Peters turned into like a two-faced type of hill. Yeah, I would probably run roughshod over the entire city of Gotham.

So there's that too. He would terrorize the hockey community for years to come. Yeah. Amazing. Save Max. Max is... Save the cheerleader, save the world. Chris has a kid.

I think that, like, you got to... Chris is someone's dad. Wait. Yeah. I forgot about my own children. Yeah. That's a whole other issue. We can put aside for another day.

But that's a good argument. Chris has a family and Max is in the host longer and, you know, is an integral part of this show. And it actually is with the athletic. I don't, you know, I think we deputize Chris Flannery to save the other one of us. I think we can all survive this. I would like to think. Yeah, I'll get involved.

I'll help save. Whatever I need to do, guys, I'm there for you. Sounds good. If I had to make a decision is I save Max, but we become the godfather for his children. I feel like that's a reasonable compromise. Chris, you have to pick one of us now to be the godfather of your children. Oh, I pick Max. Clearly.

I just won twice. I just won this game twice. Yeah, we love you. We're moving on here before anyone can change their mind. MVP says what player from the 2022 draft is looking like they should have gone much higher than they did? Corey, I think you prepped a couple names on this one. Yeah, I mean, obviously it's still early. We're only a few months into the seasons.

I don't think things would change significantly. And like it depends on the range of the draft we're talking about too. Whereas like, I mentioned him earlier in the show. Like, I think Pavl-Minchikov, the Anaheim 10th overall pick, is having an outstanding year. I think he'd probably go one to two picks higher if we did that draft. It's only one or two picks, but at that range of the draft, that's quite significant, I think. I think he's just like he's looked awesome this year. A couple other guys I've highlighted that we kind of touched on during the show.

I think Ryan Green, the second round picked by Chicago is having a very good year. I think he would go higher if he did that draft, point per game player as a freshman, and looking at he's looked excellent this year. I think Owen Beck, who slid into the first pick of the second round, last year probably goes in the late in the first round. If we redid that draft, the Montreal second round pick. We've mentioned Jimmy Snuggarwood. I mean, there's no way he gets into the 20s.

I think if you redid that draft right now, I think he would be higher even with his, it was not an amazing skaters just having such a big year. Right now, Jordan Dume, probably is not a third round pick. If we did that draft, I don't know if he's a third round. first round pick, but I would guess he's probably, gets into the second round, maybe even well into the second round if he redid the draft. And I don't know if he would move up significantly, but I feel like Philip Beast that the shark's first rounder has looked positive when I've watched

him this year. So maybe he goes a couple of picks higher. That's probably the names came to mind. Anybody you think I'm off on, Chris, or anybody else that comes to mind for you? No, I think you hit it. I mean, Snuggaroot is definitely the guy for me that has gone so. so far like i i love the player i like but he's i did not expect him to make this significant an impact this quickly and and look the way that he does i mean he's he's he's a legitimate like you know you could there's a there's a big group that's in the hobi baker mix like he's the best he's been one of the best players if not the best player on the best team in the country so pretty pretty incredible where do hudson and case you go in a redraft i feel like they go the same spot yeah

roughly i feel like maybe a couple spots higher but This is kind of the same thing with Dumei almost is like you knew these players were going to produce this year. You didn't watch Jordan Dume score 100 points in the queue, a 17-year-old and think, oh, well, he's not going to score as an 18-year-olds in this league. And you didn't watch what Hudson and Casey did in junior last year and think, because they're not going to be really good scores in college hockey. I think there are degrees to what you expect, and you can argue all three of them have exceeded those degrees. I don't know if any of us expected Jordan Dume to be putting up two and a half points per game.

I don't know either of us if there were in Hulayne Hudson to be having, you know, the most productive 18-year-old season, you know, in at least one of the most productive 18-year-old seasons ever by a defenseman in modern times. But it's,

but you expected it to an extent. You expected them to be very good. So maybe a couple of spots higher, but I don't know if they would, if you didn't believe in Hudson because of the size of the skating six months ago, I don't know how much he's done

to really change your mind. All right. J.P. Claremont wants to know, when do you have to consider taking Motvei Michkoff? Chris, let's go to you here. You know, framing-wise, I think what he's really talking about is just in terms of building a roster knowing you're not going to get him, where's the point where it's really like, okay, this is, you know, maybe in the top two, it becomes tougher with Fin Tilling-Badard there. But where is it three? Is it four? Where do you have to really consider it?

I think it's four. I think to me he's still the third best player in the draft. but I you know if I'm if I'm in a situation a pretty dire situation as an organization and I need to look at um you know both the short term and the long term I still think that Leo Carlson is going to provide enough value for you at that number three pick where you say this is a guy that's going to be I mean he he could end up being the better player um you know I think I think that he's very much in a similar tier the thing is is that after that though there aren't many I think that the this draft, the drop off after that first four is significant. And to me, if I'm an organization and I understand where I'm at, and I know that I might be inviting more pain, I still think that Mathé Michkov is a special enough talent that I'm willing to take on that risk, be patient, wait for the player. You know, there's a good chance, like, he wouldn't have been an NHL regular immediately anyway. You know, but, you're probably only awaiting an extra year, you know, basically based on his, his readiness, his physical body makeup and all those different things is physical maturity.

But I think I just, I feel like the gap after that four has, is widening. And I don't know if Corey agrees or not, but that, I feel like that, those, those four guys each have a potential to be foundational pieces for their, for their future organizations. And I don't know that I can say that about many other, if any other players. I think that analysis is correct. It's just I can see when I talk to people in the NHL about this question, I think we can all make talent evaluations and come to, you know, mostly same conclusions. But I think it's different when you're in that chair and have to call that name.

And, you know, there's all kinds of risk factors with. It's the contract. It's the country he's playing in right now and making sure you can 100% get him over. It's the organization he plays for right now, which has a history of extending players. They just did that with Kriel Krasana, Dimitri Pchalmikov, second round picks by the Kings and the wings respectively. Exended Marakustadinov, you know, just last year to the wild second round pick. It's the fact that he's a small winger who's not an amazing skater. He's only played nine games. This season, even though their season started in September, like, and part of that's because of injury, but part of that he's, they're kind of developing him in an odd way where he just doesn't play sometimes for extended stretches. It's, there's a lot of variables there where like when I talk to people in the league, they argue like, yeah, like he's a better player than Will Smith. Maybe he's an argument of a much better player, but I'm taking Will Smith just because he's going to, he's going to play for me in a year or two. And he's going to be a really big part of our organization for a long time. and I can't tell you when we're going to get this kid and when he's going to be part of our lineup.

And if he's even for sure going to be the guy we think he's going to be. And I've heard that, and for some teams, that list is a little bit longer, some of them's a little bit shorter. Some of them is, I've talked to people who think he is in the top four. And kind of like where he is with my list, where I have,

where I had my previous ranking where I had a grouping of four and he was, he was in there. But for some, they really love some other players, whether it is Smith, whether it is Brian Yeager, whether it is one or two others, and they feel like that's close enough to where I'm just taking that other guy. And I can understand why when you're in that position and it's your job on the line and your owner wants you to make some meaningful progress for the

next few years, it's really tough to take. It's just going to be really tough to call that name, unless you have, I think that's kind of been the biggest trend I've heard of talking to people about Mitchcock is they need their ownership on board with that pick. And I think that's going to be really important discussions as we get closer to the draft. And again, I can tell you, again, I can tell you he's in my top four, my third or fourth best great player on talent. And I love the player. But my job is not on the line if he doesn't come here within three years.

Yeah, exactly. It's easy for us. It's easy for us to put him there for sure. Yeah, it's tough. The interesting part too, Corey, you said it. Assuming he's the guy we think he's like, we take it for granted sometimes that that's going to work out that way. way.

Right. You know, I think one of your comps on him is like David Pasternak. And yeah, you'll wait three years for David Pasternak. But the margin there, you know, of what I'm willing to wait three years for can be pretty fine. Yeah, I mean, he's not even in the KHL right now. Like, so you don't know how he's going to do at the high stuff. He's killing it in the VHL right now. There isn't a whole lot of precedent for what that means, to be quite honest.

I mean, I guess I remember going back, like way back, like Colville Chuck was picked that league first overall um and you know but like that's not really great precedent that league looked really different way back then like it's so there's there's a lot of risks involved in picking him um and like i said i just i know when i talk to people around the league they just it's just a lot of got to do your homework on this guy you got to be absolutely sure um because if you if you if you screw that one up uh that's you that's you're gonna lose your job I mean, if he's Vladimir Tarasenko at three or four and you wait three or four or more years for him, are you still happy? Yeah, I think Tarcenko is a great player.

It's not a maybe a franchise chasing player, but he's a star. But you're willing to wait that long for? Yeah, I would say so. But, you know, the issue as well is, again, a lot happens over that time. Presuming he doesn't sign another extension. Yeah. Which is not a guarantee. But presuming he doesn't sign another extension.

Even the three years can be a long time. That's enough time for you to lose your manager. And the example we always go back to is Capriced off, even though he was a fifth round pick, is that it took, he arrived by the time, he arrived three general managers later. Very good point. All right. Patrick Scouting says he's got two questions.

I think these are targeted specifically for Corey. In your ranking, you said Connor Bedard hasn't looked like someone who's running away with it, no doubt first overall. is that more due to Fin Tilly or is there something that you are looking to see from him? That's a good question. I think part of that was that my early viewings of Badar were to look really positive, but they weren't, oh my God, outstanding. I can't believe how good he is right now.

But I would say since I put that rank up, I've had a couple of those viewings that kind of have risen to that level. And, you know, he is kind of, the difference between him and the next best player in the WHL is quite significant. But I do think a part of it is the play of Fantili. as we kind of said earlier in the podcast, this is the number two score in college hockey right now. It's important to state just how impressive that is and how rare that is by a draft eligible player to be dominating college at this rate. And it's why I kind of like chuckle when I've seen some response from readers or others saying that when I put that up that ranking, I said it's, you know, the gap is tightening.

and they're like, oh, you're just trying to stir up a storyline or there's no way this is actually close. Like, yeah, like, that's kind of what people around the league are saying. And like, I don't know how you can look at what Fantilli is doing right now and not at least entertain the argument that a guy who's second in college hockey and scoring with his size, his skating, his physicality can at least be in the discussion. And I still have Bedard number one by a decent gap, mind you. but I think you have to entertain the idea that he may not be the guy. All right. Final one today comes from Mike Bauman.

We've been putting it off for a couple weeks. We just haven't been able to fit it in. So we're going to get to it today. Mike, sorry for the wait. Does Sean Farrell have legit upside to play in the top six in Montreal? Chris, do you want to lead us off here? Yeah, I think it's pretty tough to say. He's certainly a really good college player.

He's a good skater. He's highly intelligent player. You know, I think, that he has NHL upside. I think he's going to play in the NHL. He has a lot of tools. But, I mean, it is hard for players with his size profile to fit into a top six role without being an exceptional producer.

And I don't necessarily know if he's going to be able to do that at the NHL level yet. You know, we certainly saw him as a key player at the Olympics. And that was a good indication of kind of where he is. And, you know, we've seen him in other moments as well, world championships and things like that that shows that you know he he has the ability the skating ability the vision the different things to compete at that level uh to do it a game in game out basis um is a lot harder and it's it you know i i don't know it i'll cori kori often'll go to the you know the the the comps and i'd be interested to hear if if he had any any thought on terms of like what kind

of top six forwards sean feral would look like um because it's hard to say but i i'm really like the player i've always liked the player I think that he has, he's got a great work ethic. And, you know, he's just very unassuming as a person. And then, you know, he comes onto the ice and he just plays with a lot of ferocity, even though he's not, you know, a big, strong guy. And he's not, you know, he doesn't do it physically. He doesn't more with the puck on his stick.

So, but I think that, you know, the Olympics may have skewed a lot of people's views in terms of what he ultimately is going to be. I just think that he's probably, you know, he's going to be a guy that's going to have to prove himself over and over again to make that sizable lineup impact in a top six. I mean, there's nothing wrong with him being a third line wing either, you know, or or something like that. Like, it's not really that. It's, I think the NHL is kind of going that way. You want to have a speedy, energetic third line that can give you goals. And I think he can potentially do that.

But, I mean, you know, when we're talking top six, it's very hard for me to see that as his long, He might have a few years where he's in that role, but I don't see that as being his long-term projection. You asked me what the comp was for Farrell, the top six. I don't see one. I don't think he has top six in the NHL. I appreciate the skating. I appreciate the work ethic.

I do think there is some offense. I don't know for a 5-9 guy if he's like this dynamic skill and speed type of guy. Like to be that small and to be an impactful NHL player, I think you've got to be like super dynamic. and I just don't see that with him. I kind of seem as I'm a bottom six in and out of the lineup type. Plays games. I don't know if he's like a 500 to 400,

whatever game, NHL player at this stage, at least from what I've seen. He's a good player, prospect. We'd go a lot higher if he did that draft, but I don't think he'd be like a first rounder here or something. All right, that is going to do it for us today. Thanks to everybody for listen to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show prospect series. You can follow us on YouTube at YouTube.com slash at the Athletic Hockey show. You can also catch more of Chris over at Flow Hockey and his podcast talking Hockey

Sense. And right now, you can get a one-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. We'll talk to you soon.