The Athletic Hockey Show - Canada, USA World Juniors roster debates

Episode Date: November 21, 2025

On today’s Prospect Series episode, the guys work together to create full World Juniors depth charts for both Canada and the US, debating which current NHLers will or will not be in the mix, the locks, the fringe candidates, and much more.Hosts: Max Bultman, Corey Pronman, and Scott WheelerWith: FloHockey’s Chris PetersExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryGot a question? Ask it here: t.co/fYieuQEg14Watch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Bolton here alongside the athletics, Corey Promin and Scott Wheeler and Flow Hockey's Chris Peters for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Today, we are diving into the USA and Canada World Junior roster debates, and we've got a lot to get into here. So we're going to start with Team Canada here. And here's how we did this. So what we're trying to do here is create a depth chart. Canada has, in particular, has so many contingencies that. they have to work through guys with players that they will have available,

players that they would like to get and maybe don't know if they're going to get. And then there's ultimately the pool they're going to end up with. We could spend four hours going through contingencies. So we're going to try to keep it somewhat tight. But the end goal here is to produce maybe not a projected roster, but a projected depth chart for kind of to show where we stand on all these guys and how we would, if we were Team Canada, how we would have them rank. We're the same thing for USA, thankfully a little bit simpler on that end of things.

there are going to be of some visual components to this. So if you're listening via podcast and you want to see some of these depth charts that we've kind of starter depth charts we've created, feel free to check us out on YouTube as always. But let's dive right in here, guys. And starting with the Team Canada forwards, there is some agreement. Fortunately, five of everybody's top six is consensus.

Gavin McKenna, Berkeley Caton, Beckett, Seneca, Porter-Martone, Michael Mesa. That's the good news. The bad news, as we're going to run into over and over again, we have no idea how many of those players Canada is actually going to have available to them. So we're going to get to that as we roll here. But let's just start with this. Berkeley Caton and Beckett Seneca and Michael Mesa all are in the NHL. If there's one of these players that you feel Canada is least likely to get Corey, who is it?

It has to be Seneca, right? I mean, he's been good for the Ducks. The Ducks are winning games. He's playing regular minutes, which Katten and Misa are not for the Sharks. he says hurt right now, but when he was healthy, he wasn't. I would be surprised right now if Seneca was available. All right. So given that we all have him high on the list, I think we don't need to spend a ton of time on him.

We're going to put him on the final depth chart, I think, because we would agree that, or if you guys feel strongly that we don't, we could not. But I think we all agree he's going to be high on the wish list for Canada. But we're not going to spend a ton of time on him because we don't think it's super realistic. When it comes to Michael Misa, Corey, there's a little. more of a debate here. Because as you said, he's been injured, more in and out of the lineup. What do you think the odds are? Canada gets their hands on Mesa, Scott. I think the odds are good that they get their hands on Mesa. I think based off of the way that he's

looked in the NHL, how little he has played when he has played. And just the general feel around him and his role on that team and his fit on that team, even when he's healthy, I don't think he's a every night guy for them. I don't think he's going to be used prominently for them. And I think it makes a lot of sense to send him, have him play a top six role for team Canada and be a big, big, big part of this team Canada. They obviously didn't take him a year ago. He's likely in the NHL next year. So this is kind of Mesa's year to be on this team and to have his world junior experience and be a go-to guy. So I would bet as we sit here today, I would bet that Michael Mesa is playing for Canada at the world juniors if he's healthy.

And what would you do, Chris, with Berkeley Caton is the Seattle Cracket. It's a little different situation. Cracken, again, a team that's going to try to compete for a playoff spot and Katten's in their lineup, but maybe not at the very top of it. Yeah, you know, I think the advantage for Seattle is that they've already been through this process before. They've done, they did it with Shane Wright and, you know, made the decision that they made. And I think, you know, you look at Katten right now, no goals yet in 14 games, but they did put him past the 10 game threshold. you know, he's probably, his ice time has been a little bit all over the map. It's been quite a while since he's gotten on the score sheet.

To me, it makes all the sense in the world to allow him the opportunity to go to the world juniors to be a top center, a top six center on this team, a guy that, you know, is going to be relied upon to produce and allow him to build that confidence. And then make a decision after that about ultimately where he should go next. And, you know, he is one of those guys where it feels like he's done pretty much all he can do. in junior hockey, but coming off of a world junior championship last year where he had one assist, I would have to imagine that Berkeley would also like the opportunity for some redemption with a team that has legitimate gold medal hopes. Anyone not think Canada is going to have Berkeley Caton available to them?

Cracken do have some injury issues, and that'd be the only thing I'd be thinking about there, depending on the health of their roster. I mean, they just bump Shane right to the wing on that line to have Caton Center, that third line. So I think there's a chance. All right. So let's say Caton is in this mix there. So if we've got five of the six figured out and granted Seneca may or may not be available, we think probably not.

The rotation of other players that this group of selectors kind of rotated through has a lot of variance, right? So Corey has Michael Misa at center. And that opens up a spot in his top six for T.GYNLA. Scott has Michael Misa on the way. with another NHL player, Ben Kindle at center. And that's actually probably the segue we should go to next. Do we think the Petsburgh Penguins right now against all odds holding on a playoff spot, Corey?

Is Ben Kind of going to be available to Team Canada? And kind of similar situation to Katten. They have a lot of injuries too, which resulted in Kindle getting significant ice time. If they were fully healthy, maybe, maybe not. I think they would be a little bit more open to that conversation. But Kindle's playing a lot of minutes right now for that team. And he's, you know, he's been on the top power play at times. I'd be surprised at this point.

With the information we have now, if they loaned about, but that could change in a couple of weeks. Okay. The thing with Kindle, too, is it's not that long ago that we were coming out of the World Junior Summer Showcase, and I think Ben Kindle was on the outside looking in of this roster. So he has transformed where he's at in terms of just an NHL prospect in the last little bit. And we talked about it on the show a couple of weeks ago.

Clearly, the Pittsburgh Penguins were in the right spot, and they took him where they did. But I don't think Team Canada in August is what, four months ago? I don't think Team Canada viewed him as a piece of the puzzle just four months ago. And now he's probably what, they're two C behind Katten? Yeah. One question, just tangent. Is there anybody that went before Kindle in the draft that you would take Kindle over right now?

I have him higher on my depth chart than Brady Martin, who I'm a big believer in. I think I'm probably taking him over. Brady. I'd probably take him over Brady and I'd probably take him over Merdka. What about a bra? I think you have him over O'Brien as well, Corey. Yeah, but that's so where I have O'Brien, you guys can show my depth chart if you want, just for context.

O'Brien is going to be one of those weird ones when you're putting together a roster is that I don't think he fits in a bottom six. He's not a penalty killer. He's not going to be in those tough defensive situations. But if there's a middle six power play opportunity, available for Team Canada, then all of a sudden, I think he's in that mix. You talk about Becacinica coming out of that second line right wing. That could be a spot for Jake O'Brien, quite frankly, in this lineup.

But I feel like if you're looking for him to be a fourth liner on this team, I'm not sure that that's quite the fit. Yeah. And I think that's incumbent on the conversation that we just had of if, let's say they don't get two of Katten, Mesa, Kindle, for example, then suddenly I think Jake is more firmly in the mix of what the middle six of this roster looks like. But if they're fully loaded, it's tough to imagine where he fits. To Scott's point, Kindle is in the top nine for three of us on our depth straight here. The one that doesn't have Matt is Chris. And Chris omitted him because he doesn't think there's any chance Ben Kindle's going to be available to Canada, right? So to your point, Scott, about how Kendall has elevated himself, that is pretty clear in these projections.

So the names that I want to dig into as we talk about what to do in the top six of Canada. Corey, I completely agree with your point about O'Brien because I ranked him if you want to put my chart up here. I put him as the number two center, mainly because I think that's where he fits, right? And so I don't know that I would take him over Ben Kendall. I don't think I would. So maybe I'm kind of misunderstanding the assignment. But if I'm thinking, who do I want playing with Michael Misa and Porter Martone? It's a playmaker like Jake O'Brien. So I know, Chris, you have, you have Brady Martin in that spot. And so, like, there's a lot of debates that you can have about how to structure this top six. And so to try to keep it orderly, let's start here.

How about Chris, why don't you tell us why you would have Brady Martin? that high. We're talking about depth chart, not necessarily line combinations. And I think that the thing is, is that I think hockey Canada would view Brady Martin as a, as a more critical piece to their team than Jake O'Brien at this point, because of the versatility that he provides, the physicality that he provides, you know, and so like what I necessarily have him is the second line center on this team, not necessarily. And I think that's the interesting thing about depth charts versus line charts is that there are values to what a player brings that, especially in short tournaments that I feel like are more critical.

And I think for me, you know, Martin delivers on a lot of things that aren't necessarily scoring. He can score. He had probably the goal of the season in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, HL so far this year. But it hasn't scored other than that goal. That's true. But it's like, but it's one of those things that, that, you know, for for the versatility that he provides, there's a huge benefit to his overall skill set.

So I think he's going to play significant minutes. Like there's a chance that, you know, the way Canada utilizes its second line, depending on what that is and who they get from the NHL, that maybe there's, you know, maybe they have like their tone setting line, which could be their third line or their fourth line or whatever, start a lot of games for them, set the tone kind of thing. And I think that that's what Brady Martin brings and why he's so high on my list. Corey, you have Teague Ginla in the top six, and it's not at center because, again, it all depends on how you, how you slot players positionally. But why don't you make the case for Teague Ginla? And Teach has played center. That's junior hockey. You're going to have a lot of centers playing wing on a team Canada.

I think Brady's, I think Brady's a winger for this team if he's on the team. Like they just have too many natural centers. And they've used Brady as a winger previously as well. like the high end sense to be a top two line center on this team from what I've seen. Maybe a fourth line center or something like that. But in terms of a gilla, I mean, since he's been playing this year, he's been one of the very best players in junior hockey. He's got to be like, well over a goal per game right now, something like two points per game. He's been dynamic for Kelowna.

And this is a guy who's a very important part of this age group at the U18 worlds when they won gold. I think they're going to look to this guy for his skill, his finish, his compete level. And this is his time. This is his age group. And I expect for a 19-year-old with his talent level that he will play a very prominent role in this lineup. The left side is where things really open up for this team too. Like you start to look at all of our depth charts. You've got Katten, Kindle, Lucchenko, Reshny, Kutz, O'Brien as centers.

You've got Brady Martin as a center on a couple of our lineups. right side, you've got Martone, potentially Beckett Seneke, Michael Hage, Justin Carboneau, Liam, Liam Green Tree. The left side after McKenna, that's where I think the jobs are to win. And Teage, I sort of agree with Corey here. I think Teage is well positioned to be one of those guys as a left shot winger behind McKenna somewhere. And the next guy I have after him is Denae, but that one's a struggle to figure out where to put Caleb Dinoa. I think it's the same issue with Brady Martin. They're both. of really talented players.

They don't, but they haven't played well this season. So it's like what I, I like De Noye because of the size, the PK ability and the kind of, and like I think there's a way for him to affect the game.

But I can understand, I think Scott, you're about to say you left him off. Like I completely understand leaving him off too. He hasn't played well this year. Yeah, I just think push comes to shove. You start to look at the centers

or even the left shot guys, the left shot centers that can move over. I think we've seen more from Braden Kutz and Cole, and some of those guys, then Dan Waye. And I think you've got guys like Cole Bo Dwayne that are going to be on the, and Jet Lucchenco that are going to be on their roster as returne. So I just don't see, I don't see with the way that Dan YA has looked early on with the injuries,

with the wrists, coming off the wrist. I just don't see why he's on the team over any number of those guys. And we could have a similar conversation about Caden Lindstrom. Corey is the only one that put Caden Lindstrom on his six lines deep depth chart here. Really? Good God. Caden was one of my very last cuts Caden and Sam

O'Reilly and Dainway, those were kind of my three last forwards that I didn't include here. But again, has Caden shown more than, if you're looking at the very bottom of my depth chart, has Caden shown more than Merrick Vanekar this year? I mean, not offensively, not even close. I guess I'm looking at,

I had Lichima as like a fourth line wing. I guess my argument there is high end speed, high in physicality, like for a 10 to 11 minute a night guy in those tough games against U.S., Sweden, I think he will have a lot of value. But if he gets more than two points in that tournament, which is what he's got in the year so far,

I think that'd be hoping for too much. Outside of those big five, the real consensus is here are Colbo Duane and Michael Hage. Everyone has both of them, somewhere in their top 12, and it's typically in the bottom six. So those guys, I think, as we have our debate, we don't need to spend a ton of time on because there's pretty broad agreement here. I think the guys that are going to be interesting, and let's start with Justin Carboneau out in the

queue. This is a guy who is fairly high on my list, I think fairly high on Scott's list. Corey, I think you have him toward the very bottom of your depth chart. Yeah, hockey sense minor concern there for me, I think, with Carbino, you love the skill, you love the tenacity, you love the shot. But then the question starts becoming, you know, Scott mentioned all the really good right shots on this team, particularly the right wingers that you're going to have eligible, guys like Martin, guys like Hage, Kus could be a winger on this team.

And I start going through all these options. And I start asking like, okay, well, where does he really fit? Who are you really leaving behind? You're really going to leave Lachenko behind for him? Are you really leaving Brady Martin behind for him? And I just don't see it. I feel like he's going to be a guy. Unless they lose all the NHL guys,

I feel like he's going to be in the conversation to the end and then ultimately gets cut. Luchenko is one I really struggled with because I absolutely loved what he did for Team Canada at his own U-18s. And I think that history tends to translate. I think hockey Canada is going to value that. I think they're going to see him as a guy that they can trust, even if it does end up being a fourth-line role. Like, that's really valuable. I just struggled to find, yeah, right, obviously he can kill penalties. But I just struggled to find, like, where do I put him?

It would have had to come at the expense of Denoye or Brady Martin for me. and I don't know if it's recency or what, but I just couldn't kind of get myself there. It's a tough one because I agree with you. Like, as a hockey player, the last like 12 months for Lichenko have not been overly inspiring. I know he had that really good camp

with the Flyers a year ago, but since then, it's kind of been wishing for a little bit more offense out of this player. I still think, like you said, the U-18s loom large here a little bit. I feel like he didn't have a great U-A teens and his World Juniors last year was just okay.

I feel like he could be like a Chris Beagra type of situation here where, like, even though he's a returning guy, he could still easily get cut. But I feel like because he has that strong track record, and because you're not really hoping to put him in a scoring role, you're thinking 11, 12, 13th forward on this roster, I would still find a way to get him in here. You know, keep in mind, this age group, when they played the U18s,

they only had two centers they could trust. It was Bo Dwen and Luchenko. So, like, I do think at the end of the day, he makes it. Is he going to play a lot of minutes on this team? I wouldn't go that far. A couple other bubble guys that are interested. One of them is Cole Reschney. And Chris, I know he didn't end up on your list that we're going to, when we display it.

He won't be there. But I know you meant to have him on there. So we'll just assume that like Cole Reshny's on everybody's list here. But it's still like the role is interesting. I put him on the kind of a checking third line. Again, I know I probably did a little more of a lineup than I was supposed to. But it's also a guy who could very easily be the extra, Scott. I think Reshny just fits on any roster.

He can play center. He's excellent in the faceoff circle. he's one of the more reliable players in this sage cohort. He can check. He can, he's plays with pay. He's now playing with a lot more pace. And then he's got the skill game and the playmaking. And he was a standout at the summer showcase this summer and one of the only standouts at the summer showcase this summer.

So I didn't really worry about when I was considering my sort of roster here, I didn't really worry about Reschney. Like, Reschney wasn't a guy who felt like a bubble guy. Guys like Boisver and Vaneker and O'Brien felt like bubble guys to me. Reschney still feels to me like a player who's going to be on this team. I think he was sort of penciled into this team coming out of the summer showcase after the way that he performed there. And he's had a good, not, like he hasn't had a great year at North Dakota, but he's still a point per game and an important part of that team. And I just think he's a bit of a Swiss Army knife. Like you could play him with skill guys a little bit higher.

You could play him on your third or fourth line with guys like Luchenko and Bo Dway. I think he could fit there. There's a lot of utility for Reschney at an event like this. I think he's probably in the mix. So I really like Reshny, but this is why I would put Dinoje over Reshny. I feel like if we were in the summer right now, we hadn't started the season yet,

we presumed Denoia was going to come back healthy. Would anybody here have put Reshne over Denoia for this team? No, but it's November and that didn't happen. No, right, but Denoia's played seven games. It's not like he's played a full quarter of a year he's played poorly. It's been seven games, one of which he left,

like, beginning of the game due to injury. So, I'm hesitant, and there's similar player styles. Danoia is bigger, but they're both kind of these two-way hardworking forwards.

So, like, I look at this, I'm like, yeah, Denaue has been, hasn't been good. But I feel like what you're hoping to get out of Resney,

you can get out of him. And I feel like the offense is going to be close. And I just value this player more. I feel like even he has a better track record, too. So, Anyways, that was my argument there.

I don't think it's unreasonable to take Reschney instead of De Noier, but that was my line of thinking. I have both, but as I was trying to figure out how to slot him, I was just thinking like it's hard to put the one above the other when the one is playing so well and arguably against better competition. So that's one that will, I think we'll debate as we get a little bit deeper into this. The other player I want to talk about just as we figure out who the bubble is here is Liam Green Tree. I left him off. I think Corey, you have him pretty low. Scott, you have him right at the fringe. Chris, you have him, I think, third right wing for you. Do you want to make the case for Liam Green Tree? I mean, I think it's hard. It's hard to make the case. It's more of a positional thing.

Like, I think the thing is you want some guys to be playing in their spots. You want them to be kind of in the more natural positions. I think he can play on either side. He has, you know, scoring ability, size, those things. I think the reason that, you know, a lot of us view him, and that's, yes, he's high on higher on my list, but I really think that a lot of these guys, as we get outside of the top, you know, seven or eight forwards are fairly interchangeable for a lot of ways. And he's one of those guys where, you know, the track records there in terms of the production. He was one of the top players in the OHL last season. He wasn't available this summer, you know, so like that, we didn't get a chance to see him in that environment. you know, I think if you go back to his under 18s, he had a hard time getting on the ice.

And I think that'll absolutely stay in the memory of hockey Canada, which is why I'm sure, you know, you guys are kind of more on the fence about him. You know, but I also was looking at kind of some of the different things and making sure that you have, you know, some good size, but with some skill against a U.S. team in particular or a Sweden team that is going to have some of that. I think the U.S. team is going to be tougher, like just they're not going to be as big overall. But, you know, yeah, I mean, I think he's one of those guys that he's really tricky to figure out. And he's often leaving you wanting more. Yet you look up and he's always producing. So to me, that's, that's, you need scoring. He does that.

That's why he's in for me. He's been a really impactful junior player and he's got the size. his pace does worry me and like I'm worried if I was in Team Canada position like not worried but like I'm thinking if I was in the position he I feel like they're going to pick him apart in the way that Team Canada picked apart

like a guy like a Michael Dal Cole for example where they're wondering he's been he's a great score at the OHL level but when the game gets really fast against USA and Sweden is he going to be able to keep up and I kind of feel like the top maybe it's like a 13th forward that's kind of what he was at his Halenka for example like I could see him in that type of

role, top nine, I would imagine they want a little bit more. The one ripple for Green Tree is that despite the fact that he has played exclusively as a right wing in his junior career, he is a left shot. So I don't know how comfortable he would be moving back to his natural side, but the left wing is a potential option for him, I think, if they can, if they see more of a glaring hole there than they do on the right side. All right. So here's where I think we are based on that debate.

So at left wing, or let's go about line by line here. Line one, if everyone is available, McKenna, Cat, and Seneca. Second line, Aginla, Misa Martone. Third line, Boduan, Ben Kindle, Michael Hage. Fourth line, Cole Reschney, Jet Lucchenco, Justin Carboneau. And then right at the bubble, the fifth line guys, Jake O'Brien, Caleb Dinoje, Brady Martin. and the sixth line of guys who I think there's varying degrees of advocacy for but just couldn't get enough. Merrick Vaneker, Braden Coots, Liam Green Tree, and then just cut completely from our conversation, basically,

were Sasha Buevaer, Caden Lindstrom, Sam O'Reilly, and Roger McQueen. A lot of good players not on there. Yeah, I think in our conversation is probably the most contentious ones were Jake O'Brien and Brady Martin. like those are really good players really unique players and it's it's frustrating because one we couldn't find a spot in the line up for them but two based on how the NHL availability go there are clear scenarios for either of them actually being on the team right i mean if you don't get seneca and let's i think you probably get misa but let's say you don't get misa all of a sudden like the offensive argument for jake o'brien was putting up two points

a game in the O HL right now. I think it's really strong, Scott. Yes. I just think it's, we've talked about it off the top of the show. I just think it's going to be tricky for O'Brien on the whole. If they're fully loaded, if they get even the majority of their NHL guys, where does he fit as an 18 year old who's not a checker and is a skill guy, but may not play as a skill guy on this roster? So I think it's, it's all about trickle down. It, what, domino turns into another domino turns into another domino suddenly there's i think an opportunity for jake o'brien to play very high in this lineup um but when we when we started to put together our depth chart it's just i mean forget that we've cut boivere and lindstrom and o'reilly and we didn't even oh riley who plays for the hunters

uh and we didn't even mention roger mcqueen in our previous chat even some of the guys on this fifth and six line that we've technically included here are also likely to get cut here so uh at least if they get the majority of their NHL guys back. So there's a lot that needs to be sorted. They're going to need to find out those commitments from NHL clubs soon. We'll get to the defense, but we heard today that Zane Perreck has been confirmed as someone who's going to be playing for Team Canada.

And I think those are going to start to trickle out now. Canada's announcing its roster as we record this in about two and a half, three weeks here. So the runway here is shrinking for some of these guys to continue. to make a case. Certainly O'Brien has made a very compelling case. So has Merrick Vaneker, who we've hardly discussed, playing with Jake O'Brien on that top line in Brantford. So a lot of very, very good players, as always. I think the defense is going to be a lot less contentious than this. You are correct about that. And we will go to that next. So let's take a break right there. We'll come back with Canada's blue line. All right, we're back. And we're

going to go now to the Team Canada defense. Fortunately, a lot less moving parts. on that one, we all agreed on the top 4D. We all agreed on the 3rd and 4 right D in some order. The 4 that we all agree on up top, Sam Dickinson, Zane Perreck, Kashan Acheson and Harrison Brunachy, the 3rd and 4 right D, Ben Danford, Keaton Verhoff. The questions, Chris, are which of those players up top will Canada actually get? It does sound like based on reporting from Eric Francis on Wednesday

that Team Canada will get Zane Perak. That's a huge sigh of relief for them. Will they get so lucky with San Jose and Sam Dickens? Well, I think they better hope to because I think once you get past Sam Dickinson, there's a lot of uncertainty there. And I, you know, to the point where I'm like, I mean, I don't know, you might have to start looking at guys playing their offside and different things. Because as we kind of look towards the end, two of the guys, left shot guys they had in camp in the summer were Terrence Smith and Owen Protz. And I think they're both very solid junior defensemen. I think you could bring them.

It's just, you know, are you going to play them a significant amount of minutes? But, you know, you lose Sam Dickinson. And then you're pretty much certain to have one of those two guys. I think you're looking at Cam Reed being in that mix. You know, so you're trying to find ways to get a little bit more out of your decor. And that's why I think like Keaton Verhof all of a sudden looks more like a lock to be in there than maybe we would have thought otherwise, even though he's, you know, a big right shot. So I think this is a situation. And really, it showed up in the camp at in the summer. We saw, you know, Schaefer leaves and Dickinson leaves and all, you know, the Perek leaves. And

and then you're starting to play with that next tier. And it looks pretty not amazing when you're, when you're, when you're kind of getting to that depth. And, you know, it's a, it's an issue that we're going to talk about with Team USA as well. Because I think that defensive depth is going to be something that's tough for them, but really down that left side, the way that it thins out is fairly dramatic to me. So you mentioned Cam Reed. So that's a name that I debated strongly. And I didn't know where to land on him. I ended up going with Jackson Smith. Not that I necessarily feel great about it, but part of my logic was maybe the most, I guess, physically, stylistically similar to Sam Dickinson. When you talk about the skating, when you talk about, I don't know if he has quite as much

offense as Sam Dickinson does. But that's where I went. But I think I was kind of. I was kind of of on an island with that one, Corey. I haven't liked Smith at all this year. I think Chris, Chris and I have talked with this off camera before. Like, I think at Penn State, he's been very average.

I think you like the skill. You like the skating. Like the size. I think you want, he fights the puck a little bit at that level. He basically hasn't killed a penalty all year. I thought his U-18 were just good and not great last spring. Like,

I think there will be other guys they will consider over him. I think he will be. a really strong candidate for the team the following year, but I'd be a little surprised if he was on the team this year, even with these issues on defense that we're talking about. I do think Smith has been better than the credit that Corey's giving him there, but I think the U-18s loom large. He had some tough moments at U-18s, and they got to a, they still played him. He still played 18, 19 minutes a night for that team.

and I had him sort of further down as my sort of fifth left shot deep because I think the options start to get pretty slim. But he that I think that U-18s, especially that when it's the previous U-18s and you're not talking about a 19-year-old defenseman, you're still talking about an 18-year-old, I think that will loom large for for Smith in the conversation. Like they desperately, for example, on Cam Reed, who we started this conversation with, they desperately wanted Cam Reed there. they were very eager to get Camryde there and Kitchener just played too long in the playoffs for that to be a reality for Team Canada. And I think that also looms large. Camry didn't go there and have an opportunity to show whether he was going to play poorly, but they felt that if Camryd had been there, that he would have been a huge, huge part of that U18 team. And I think they're just based off of that, I think they're quite high on Cam.

He's also been better. We talked about him a couple weeks ago on the show, just sort of a one, I think, we had a sort of one-off quick conversation about Reid, getting off to a slow start a couple of weeks ago. He's been outstanding, basically since the moment we had that conversation in Kitchener. Like, he's been playing 28, 29 minutes a night. He's been one of the better players in the OHL over the last month. So I think Cam sort of his game coming back around and how well-rounded he is, he felt for me, after Dickinson and Aitchison, like he's right there amongst the lefties. I don't think we had a conversation. I'm pretty much sure you were the one who just kind of slammed him in that

when we did that. Possible too. We mentioned how Sam O'Reilly didn't get into the conversation for us. And I feel like just given the high end names that we cut, I don't think anyone here was really contending that he needs to be in here. But I feel like, if we're talking about like a London night

that the hunters might try to sneak in here, I feel like on D, there's a way they might try and get Jared Woolley. And they're just given the blakness on the left side, especially if they don't get Dickinson, where he got the guy with size who competes, who's putting up pretty good offense this year in the OHL.

I don't love him, but we're talking about some pretty, you can say that spin on the left side. And I could absolutely see them bringing Wully, especially if they don't get Dickinson. Yeah, I'm with you. Actually, when I saw that on there, I was, you know, I guess a little bit surprised, but also it makes a ton of sense. You know, the more I thought about it as I looked at it. And you're right, he has had a really, really strong season. I mean, six foot five.

he's looked pretty good. But yeah, I mean, like, you know, the one guy that I, that I would like for us to talk a little bit more about, because I didn't have them on mine. And I think all the rest of you did was Xavier Villeneuve. Yep. Does the availability of Porek at all impact that, that decision for you? Yes. They're not bringing him now.

Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of what I thought. For what it's worth, I think that's a mistake. And we went through this entire process last year. suddenly if Dickinson's not there and you pat yourself on the back for having Perrek, you're still one injury away from having Harrison Brunachie or Cam Reed or whoever else running one of your power plays, which works at the junior level,

will not necessarily work at the OHL or at the World Junior level. But as Parra gets injured, they can always fly him in, right? In theory. But just bring that guy. you could you could they've done we've been through that before with yager furcus flying in and then sitting in the like just bring bring the insurance have him as your seventh or eight d you get to bring eight d to the tournament i think there's a role for a guy like villeneuve as a seven or eight d on this team from day one and speaking of u 18's another player who was excellent for them

even at five on five at you 18s like i just i think it's if if you're if you're going to bring jared Wolley and Owen Pratz and these guys to pet like we've seen that not work again and again like those guys just aren't built for the world junior level we've see I could list off 10 players in that mold who've played for hockey Canada at the last several world juniors who have struggled and haven't been able to to elevate I don't think you have that same issue if you bring Zaviev as a power play stopgap guy like you thought he was excellent a five on five in the worlds yes I don't know that he played that much at five on five, yeah. Yeah, he was like a power play guy for them by the end.

He played in the important games. Yeah, early in the tournament, yeah, I thought he was, he was excellent. He was one of their better defensemen. I love him, but I just didn't see that personally, but pretty discreet. That's fine. Let's talk about the name that Chris had, that he had Terran Smith. And this could be somewhat of a solution to this answer with a little bit more size. Chris, do you want to make a pitch for Terran Smith?

I mean, not a strong one, really. You know, like, I think that's kind of what we came from. That's kind of what we came back to is. And to Scott's point, I think some of the things that he said, like, so in my depth chart, did I go with what I would have done or what I think Hockey Canada would do? And I think you're going to air the way that traditionally they have erred on the side of who's got a little more size, who's got a little more pop. And really, Smith this year, like I said, he was involved at the summer showcase, you know, didn't necessarily impact the game in a significant way. but he's a point per game defenseman right now in the WHL.

He's captaining the silver tips. A player like him maybe fits the mold a little bit more of what we've traditionally seen them bring. But that's the thing is like I think as you get further down, and this is kind of what I was alluding to when we talked about Sam Dickinson, the decisions become not just difficult. They become not great in terms of like you don't want to get into that situation because you don't want to be debating between these players that are kind of fringe world junior players.

They're very good junior players. They're professional prospects. Are they a world junior player right now? That's the question that you have to answer. And that's where players like Villanouv, others that can maybe fit into a role like in a power play situation or a way to present some offense that could help them. But yeah, I mean, so I like, as I made the left side, I was like, gosh, I, you know, I almost just want to start listing more guys.

And that's why guys like Jared Woolley, you know, Villeneuve as the other guys that are in the mix here still make a lot of sense to me as well, because I don't think you can make a strong case for any single one of them. I just looked it up. Villeneuve played the third fewest, even straight minutes for King Canada in the metal round game. Corey will find a receipt no matter, no matter what he has to do, where the time he is going to find the receipts. The only receipt checkers better than Corey are at Costco.

So you know who also didn't play for Team Canada last year's world juniors that they brought? Bo Akey, who they brought to play three minutes a night. And then when a power play quarterback got injured, suddenly they had no options to run either of their two power plays. Yeah. I don't like Xavier. He's not my death chart. I just, I just didn't think he was good. Everyone's welcome to vote for Jared Wolley or Owen Prots.

But Jared Wolley and Owen Prott could end up being Boe Ake and playing three, four minutes a night. And then at least if you have. I would argue. Yeah. I would agree. And at least if, at least if you have a Villeneuve, you know exactly what his utility is. You know when to insert him into the lineup. You know what role he's playing.

Why bring another, like they've got, you were talking about size. They've got plenty of size. If they bring, if they get Dickinson, they've got Dickinson. They've got Harrison Brunachie's not mean, but he's 6-2, 6-3. Keaton Verhoff could be on this roster. Ben Danford is one of the thickest kids in junior hockey. they don't have a shortage of that. And I think if you're doubling down on that,

you're making the same mistakes that they've made in recent tournaments here in terms of constructing the blue line. They need to bring guys who can move pucks, who can potentially run the power play. And I don't think Zane Perrette gives them a free pass on bringing those types to round out the rest of the roster. Well, that brings probably more interesting conversations than Villeneuve, is Verhof,

is I thought coming out of the Hling, Gretsky, he's on the outside looking in. Two months into his freshman year where he's been pretty strong for North Dakota, I would be more inclined, I think, to bring him and to give him a real chance to play on this team. I think he's shown he could move pucks very well at the college level. And I don't know if he's going to play big minutes on this team, but given the bleakness on this blue line, I think he deserves a chance. I believe he's in everybody's top eight

and it's him and Danford in some order at three, four. We could probably get into that right now. Like, who would you rather have as a third pair guy? And I had Danford at three, but I submitted this, I think, quite like a week ago. And the more I thought about it, the more I wonder whether I should have flipped that and get Verhof into the starting six.

I believe that is how Scott has it, right? Yeah, if Corey flipped Danford and Verhof, we'd have the exact same three. pairs at the top there. Yeah. So an easier conversation there. I think basically that's where we're arriving at is that it's Dickinson Perak, it's H.S. and Brunachy, it's Verhoff at 3RD. Chris, are you good with that? Yeah. Danford at 4RD. And then it's, the conversation still comes back to the left side. Like, I guess that's the ultimate question on this blue line is who's three and who is four. We're ultimately going to have 10 names on this list. Who do we feel good about on the third pair

opposite Keaton Verhof. I'm for Cameron Reed, just the way he skates. Like, there's too many similarities at Tanner, Tlandic, who they brought as an 18-year-olds. Like, I think that's the guy. Let's pencil and Camry there. And then at four lefty, who's opposite of Ben Danford? Is it Owen Pratt?

Is it Zavia Vilnov? Doesn't sound like you guys are sold on Jackson Smith. I bring Pratt, Wuli, or Villenev. I don't really care at this point, because I feel like there's pretty similar, I mean, not similar talent because obviously Villadoves a high end offensive talent

but in terms of how I feel about them in the lineup I'd probably just take prots. I think that high, high end physicality is something that you'd value as a 70 and that'd be my argument. Okay, Chris, what do you think?

Do I have to? You do. Oh, man. I guess you guys have talked to me into Villeneuve a little bit more. You guys, there's been one person who's been arguing for it. Well, he's on your depth chart too.

He wasn't on Ryan. So we're talking about the fourth pair right now. Yeah, but again, this is a depth chart. So if you lose Dickinson, this guy's all of a sudden in your knightly. And they can bring, and they can bring eight. And they probably are going to bring both of these guys, if we presume that, you know, that's just if one of set. I'll go, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll go with Villanuve then in the, in the, in the, in the very bottom, bottom pairing situation here.

Doesn't sound like Corey's in the mood to protest. So we're going to, we're going to slot Vilnov in at four LD, Owen Protz at five LD. And then five, five RD, I think is unanimously, Charlie Ellick, one of, Corey, you might have had Vilnav on the right side on your depth chart, but I did, I did, I did, I didn't have ELEC, but ELEC is fine as a five RD. and you hope that he's not playing more than 12 minutes a night, I think, is the... Well, and ultimately it's a depth chart, right? So the practical is that it's probably not going at all. But just for our purposes, that's the defense chart. Let's move over to the goalies here real quick, because I think it's two to two.

I believe it's Chris and Scott have Carter George. Corey and I have Jack Ivan Kovic. I'll let you start, Chris, make the case for Carter George. You know, I think it's experience. I mean, both of them have it, obviously. both of them have international experience. But, you know, I've looked at Carter George and the way that he plays and the way that he approaches the game. And, you know, I think that he has all the tools there except for, you know, tremendous size and things like that.

But he's a competitor. He's got high-end hockey sense. He doesn't shrink in the spotlight. I mean, I think it's 1A, 1B situation for them, which is crazy because you've got a first-round goalie that, you know, we're talking about as a number three. but, you know, I think I've, at this point, have a little more faith overall in, in George, but it's really not a significant difference between him and Ivan Kovic. And I had Ivan Kovic, I've won, but I feel the same way. Both are great goalies.

Both have been really good in big events. When I've watched them this year, maybe just because I've watched a little bit more in Michigan than I have Owen Sound, I just, Ivan Kovic just looks spectacular this year, quite frankly. Like, he's just, like, been one of the better freshman goalies I can remember, you know, just because he's Nashville. It's hard not to connect the dots and say, like, man, this guy reminds me a lot of you say Saros at the same age.

But, like, I love his game. But Carter George, you know, has played with the senior team. He was fantastic. And the last year's World Junior is fantastic. And his U-18s. He absolutely deserves to start game one. But I feel like it's going to be a situation where the coach is just going to have to make a last minute call on who's starting that middle round game.

I do think there's some rhyme in Ivan Kovic and the guy who won the last two gold medals in Trey Augustine. It's very hard for me to erase that from my mind, Scott. Yeah, I would counter that I think Carter George was Canada's best player at last year's world years. Yeah, he was. And it's pretty hard, pretty hard not to go back to the guy who's your best player. I think to Corey's point, I would be very, very, very surprised if Carter George isn't

starting on boxing day. whether that changes, we'll see. Jack Ivan Kovic only played one game last year. He was also excellent in it, and it was a shootout loss to Latvia, unfortunately, but he was very good in it. But George won gold for them at U18 Worlds as well, and was debatably other than Gavin McKenna,

their best player in that game as well. So the track record for both of these kids is pretty hard to contest with, but I think George, based off of how he played at last year's tournament, I think he'll be the guy. All right, well, with what Corey said, and then obviously your guys are strong feelings, let's go George Ivan Kovic and then Ravensburg. So that is our team Canada.

We're going to take a quick break right there. We'll come back with Team USA. I promise that will be a quicker discussion. All right, we're back. And let's go now to the Team USA roster debate. This one a little bit easier. It's just a much tighter pool of players that we're talking about. A lot of commonality.

Most of the forward mix, I would say, we all have is roughly the same. A couple different slottings. Obviously, James Higgins is on there. Stiga, Brody Zemer, Max Plant, Will Horcoff, Cole Eiserman, Trevor Connolly, Cole McKinney, A.J. Spellacy, Shane Vensaghi, and Camille Bednaric, all on just about everybody. I think Scott has him, Bednaric on, but outside his top 12. It's a minor disagreement here. The debates are really about a couple key spots, and one of those would be the second line center. Scott, Chris, and I all have Will Horcoff in that spot after how he started at Michigan. Cori, you've got Camille Bednaric.

Why don't you explain kind of what the deliberation was like there for you on your draft list of the steps chart? I mean, I don't think Horcoff is really a center. Like, I think that he's much better suited for the wing because he's just because of his skating. He's got great skill, great goal scoring ability. But I think like Bitnarik, he's a hard player, a good skater, a two-way player. Like, Horcoff's a way better player. Don't get me wrong. I just don't view him as a center on a world junior team.

Yeah, and I, you know what? I think that's fair. What I would say, though, is that there aren't many centers, good centers in this group. And I think that that opens the door for a Will Horcoff to potentially play down the middle to allow you to kind of bring some different looks from other players. But yeah, I mean, I think in general, you're right. And this is kind of the story of this team. I think you're putting a lot of different players maybe in not the best position that you could,

but it's really you don't have a lot of other options. You know, Bednarik is one of the, he was right next, you know, he was the next guy on my list as well. You know, I think that he, he has plenty of, plenty of qualities that will allow him to fit there. But, I mean, I think that, yeah, USA is in a, is in a bit of a, they just don't have the depth at the center position. They don't have, the other thing is Horcoff has a size advantage, some other things there, too. But yeah, I mean, would he be better served on the wing? I'm sure. But I don't know that they have that luxury. Well, let's get that list of players back up again. It could be any of our depth charts. But the center position for USA as a whole here, after James Higgins, it doesn't really

inspire you offensively. Like, you have these pretty good offensive wingers. Cole Eisenman, Max Plant, Trevor Connolly. Most of us have Reicherly. We'll talk about that in a second. I do think you want, I mean, there's something to be said for a good two-way defensive guy down middle doing a lot of that dirty work it USA is going to be hard up to generate offense I think down the middle outside of like a will horrid this was my logic like will horc off there's a tried and true recipe for him to create offense around the net granting even what Corey said about kind of where is it best for him I'm wondering like what's best for team USA here it's very well this was the story of their age group where they were at the u.8 team level was basically just the hagen's line and

uh iserman kind of rotated it in and out of it it's very similar to the will smith age group with with Perrault and Leonard. It's very well- Could be like a power play that plays, you know, the whole two minutes, just to make sure Hages doesn't get off the ice. I think they're going to score, but I think secondary scoring is going to be a story when they get to the medal round games. Yeah. Let's talk about Riker Lee, because this is not a team that's necessarily short on skilled wingers, Corey, so I can see why maybe that it wouldn't seem like a priority area.

But I think Riker Lee's first half has been really strong. So what was the decision like to leave him off? For me is I look at the top nine wingers, and this is where I guess coming out to Horcoff. Horkoff is the center. It changes the calculus for me a little bit. But I think I look at Stiga, Zemer, Plant, Eisenman, Horkoff, and Connolly as my top nine wingers.

And I don't think Lee gets in the mixed year as a fourth lineup. Now, if I was actually making this team, I would take him over LJ. Mooney. I don't know that Bob Motsko was going to take him over LJ. Mooney. but I would. But I think I love Riker. He's looked really impressive this year. As he's super skilled,

super creative could shoot the puck. 5-0 left up a low average skater, though. I feel like if he's not in the top nine, which, again, that Hork, I really probably never even thought about Horkoff as a center. So like just two of you guys did kind of surprise me a little bit. But anyways, so that would change things a little bit for me.

But if Horkoff is on the wing, that I don't really know where Riker fits in this conversation. Yeah. Scott, you have LJ, speaking of LJ Mooney, like you have him as your 3C. Yeah, again, to Chris's point, I just don't know who's playing Senate. Like, I don't want Camille Bednarik playing with skill guys on a second line and going over the boards for offensive zone draws, which I think you want those lines at the very, very top of your lineup to be doing. So I think LJ can can check and do a lot of things that I think people don't give him enough credit for. He's been very good as a Senate. Center is an underager for them at U18 Worlds.

He's played a lot of the wing recently, too. But I think when you're starting to sort of piece together the pieces of the puzzle down the middle, I would rather a Will Horikoff and an L.J. Mooney there in the guts of the lineup than I would Camel Bednaric. I think if you're bringing up Bednarik, it's as a 13th or 14th forward kind of thing. I would say to Corey's point about Riker Lee, Riker was A excellent for them at the World Junior Summer Showcase this summer. Like I was convinced after

having one conversation with Bob Motzkew about him in a scrum that he was a big, big fan of Riker. Rikers I think got more dog in him than people realized. I think he's shown that in college this year. He's scrapped. Like I think Riker can kind of play more up and down the lineup than people realize.

And I would also say, Corey's got Jack Mertag there as as a fourth line. Like Jack's not a, he's a score. He's a, he's not a checking winger. Like I just don't. The argument for me there was the left shot versus right shot there. I think Riker Lee is a better player than Jack Berk.

But I really struggled after those first three left wings. I couldn't find another guy I really was passionate about. That was a left shot to put there to be perfectly honest unless I'm missing somebody obvious. I was part of the reason. I put Spellacy there and move Spellacy to the wing for that reason. Yeah. I just don't think.

I just don't think Jack's sniffing this team. Like, I don't think he's even in the mix. All right. So let's kind of try to synthesize some of this. So the first thing we need to settle is who we're putting at 2C here. So, Corey, can you be sold on Horikoff at 2C or that's just like a you don't see it happening thing? When was the last time he played center? I don't know.

He hasn't played center at Michigan. He didn't play center at the U.S.E. Worlds. So, like, you're talking about, like, last fall maybe? he played at the NTP Yeah he played it at the NTP In the front of the season before he left So he hasn't played center in a year But he's going to be the second line center

With the World Junior's for Team USA Look at the list, Corey What are we trying to do here? McKinney's on the same team with him at Michigan He's the center there Well, I just think for the sake of Getting the best top nine that we can I think the best way to do that is with Will Horcough

At Center. So even acknowledging that yes, like McKinney's the more natural option here, let's let's put will horc off at two C we'll keep Cole McKinney at 3C for 4C do you do you want binaric at 4C or you like spell a C there Corey I would probably lean towards binnedary just the experience with this national team yeah that'd be my that'll be my link so then spell C can be like his run and gun physical speed guy on the wing yep and that's kind of scott and I's point like like you get him on the fourth line left wing like it's it's a good solution to a depth issue there for

Team USA. All right. So I think where we're at then with Team USA is, top line, is everyone good with Teddy Stiga, James Hagan's Brody Zemer? Don't think Chris is. Okay, Chris. Yeah. So like, you know, I think Teddy, Teddy Stiga, he started to pick it up a little bit this year. You know, I did not like the way things were looking early on in the season, very scrambling. You know, he, the only shot he took at the World Junior Championship was the game-winning goal last year. And I, he's on the roster. Like he's on my team.

I'd have a hard time. Bob loves him too. Yeah, yeah. And he's got, he's got a lot of the qualities. But man, it's just, it's, it's tough for me to have to see them, you know, kind of on that, that top line situation, you know, in terms of pure depth chart, you know, like I think, you know, Connolly and others could potentially

give you more just in terms of a pure depth chart. But I mean, he's going to play with Hagan. Like the top line is probably going to be Stiga Hagen's and Zemer as the actual top line. It might not look that way on the depth. There's a fun question. If that's actually the top line, who's the center? Because there have been times this year where Stiga's been the center and Hagan's has been the wing. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I think it'll probably end up still being James. But yes. I don't think prob. I wouldn't even use the. word probably. James Hagen's was the first line center for last year's team. Yeah. I don't think it's a conversation. Let's hope not.

But the fact that it is already that it's happening on his current team and that we're seeing the results that we're seeing from both of those guys, a little concerning to me. BC's been a tough watch. Except for Dean Letterno. He's having a great year. Look out for the Dino, the Dean Pot. Let's go. All right.

So let's go with Stiga Hagen, Siemer. I know some people had plant. Some people had Eisenman on the top line. I think in my projection, I had those as the wingers for Will Horikoff on the second line. How do you guys want to, do you want to argue for anyone else there, Riker Lee? I feel like we all have the same top nine wingers now. If we're putting Horcalf at center, then I think we would all agree what the top nine wingers are.

It's just a matter of where you're putting them essentially. My thought was plant the playmaker to just kind of set up Eisenman. Which is what they did with the program too, to varying levels of success, but that was one of they've tried before. Yeah, plant, plant will be with, I would, I would imagine that plant's going to be with, with Iserman. And do you want that with Horcough as a center or with McKinney? Horcoth.

All right. So then that leaves Trevor Connolly and Riker Lee are the wingers next to Cole McKinney on line three. And then line four, I think we decided on Spellas, Bidnarek, and I think unanimous was Shane Vinsagi at fourth line, right wing. Is that right? Yes, sir. And that's a good, that's a good checking line.

I'll say this. They're going to play a lot. We've beaten up USA a little bit this year. I do think that's the exact kind of line that you want checking the Canada line. So that's something they've got going for them. The interesting part here is the depth. And like we talked about, Scott had L.J. Mooney pretty high. Cullen Potter, I think, is a name that everyone kind of had somewhere on their list, usually at the bottom.

I know this isn't likely, but I felt like we should at least discuss J.P. Hurlbert, leading the Western Hockey League and scoring. Look, for political reasons, I get it. left the NTP, you're probably not getting on to the world junior team in your draft year. But is there any validity to this discussion? I don't even think. I think next week when he played those NTDP teams, if there's any bad blood in those games, perhaps. I think it's actually in the bylaws now that if you search J.P. Hurlbert's name in the USA hockey database, it comes up with files empty.

Yeah, yeah. I will hear, Max, I just. just want to just to put a like let's make sure that we we understand fully like the the chances of this happening oh no okay just wanted to make sure that everybody zero point zero percent chance and and it is and it is for the reasons that you mentioned it is the political thing it is but it but at the same time if you take a player that left the program for and and then ignore all those other 22 guys that are still there it's hard to make that sales pitch to to future recruits, I would imagine.

So is it fair? No, but would I have them on my team otherwise? No, I wouldn't. Yeah. All right. Well, then let's go to the defense here. And again, like, this is a... I might bring him over Potter if I was really like asked about it.

Well, I'm not bringing Potter. I'm not bringing Potter. Yeah. Yeah. So Chris is bringing 13 forwards to the World Juniors for TB USA. No injuries allowed. Let's go to the defense here now. And there's a lot of unanimity there as well.

Everybody's got Cole Hudson. everybody's got Adam Kleber, E.J. Emery, Dakota Rayo Mullen, who I don't think was on our projection in the summer. I believe he's on all four of these lists. He wasn't initially invited. He was a late invite due to injury to the summer showcase. He wasn't even initially invited by USA hockey. But he was very good there, and he's had an excellent first half. And that's how he, you know, it becomes a unanimous pick for all of us, as well as Luke Osborne. Different slottings. But, you know, this is a good core. I don't know that it's going to wow you. I think Cole Hudson has the potential to be one of the very best defensemen at the world juniors.

But it's all about kind of how you surround this group here. And of the names that we're going to debate here, I don't know that there's anybody who feels amazing. I mean, you're talking about Blake Fiddler, Jacob Rombock, who else got to mention here? Sam Larilla. It's not splashy. But is there anyone who want, Will Skahan, anyone want to make an impassioned case for a name they had on their list? I think Chase Reed, he was my fourth right-shot defenseman. They're much deeper around the right side than they are on the left side, so it's tricky.

But I think Chase Reed has made a very, very compelling case to, if not be on this team, then at the least be in camp. I think he's one of the best players in the O HL right now and has really, like, even elevated this year beyond how good he was last year immediately. And I think he's a player that they could benefit from bringing into the fold and getting this kind of experience, even if it's as number seven or number eight defensemen. So that was my one where, and you'll notice, like, I don't have Henry Bustavich or Blake Fiddler, two first round picks.

I don't have, actually, Fiddler was a second round pick in the end, but I don't have either of those guys on my team. And I think Chase has played his way into that mix for me. I don't know whether he will for NCAA legend Bob Motsko, which I think is what Chris is going to say here. but this was I think supposed to in theory be our case and our team. Chase Reed would be firmly in the mix. I'm not sure he's playing in your top six,

but I think he belongs in that 7, 8, 9, 10 conversation for this group. It'd be quite a change of heart for them to have cut Chase Reed from the U18 World's team. He was at the camp. They cut him. They brought him in, saw him, left him home. And then six months later, you're bringing him to play for the U20 team ahead of all. all those guys on that team, including Blake Fiddler, who was one of, I think he wasn't a minutes leader at that tournament.

So I like Chase Reed a lot. I'd just be surprised if he actually was on this. I also, part of the case for Reed for me is that similar to the conversation we had with Canada, is Luke Osborne going to be running your second power play here? Like, is that what we're, is that what we're looking at? I would get, I would guess. So yes, but I also kind of say, like I said earlier, I don't think that first power play is getting off the ice. they shouldn't yeah i don't i don't care what the i don't care who's on the second power play they're not

like with the talent you have on the second power play i don't think that's going to be the case you could have riker lee and trevor connolly and and well you know what you could just potentially just have cole hudson play the entire power play and then call it good but but but scott like you go ahead i think that's a i think that's a very real possibility why don't why not have Cole, I think there's enough talent that you need to get Riker Lee and Trevor Connolly and some of these, because they're going to have plan and those guys on PP1. They always have. Yeah. Um, but I think you want to get those other guys looks and touches and feeling the puck there. So I, I hadn't actually considered

it. But Hudson running both units, I don't think is a terrible idea. Yeah, I mean, like, that's, that's, that's how I would do it. But, you know, like, and I'll tell you what, Scott, like, I think the chase reach the, if you are going to have an evaluation camp, chase read 100% should be in that camp. And yes, it's, you know, yeah, you, you, you taking them over like Drew Schock and other guys that, that were part of your group last year at the under 18s. But I think based on what we've seen from those guys in college and Reed in, in junior, you know, this is a guy that's playing, he's leading all players and minutes in the OHL, you know, playing around 28 minutes a game. So, you know, this is a real player that, that you should, this camp, like, he should have been there in the

summer too. Yes. Like I thought for sure he should have been there in the summer. That's what that is for. That is there. I'd rather take more guys that I'm less sure about than guys that I'm really sure about. Like they've done where they've sent the, the returnees home. This year they didn't do that.

But in past years, send the returnees home, give these other guys a look. But I, but I agree. Like to Corey's point, what's, how much of a change of heart are they going to have over that, that period of time? But, you look at the, look at the right shots. Cleber, Emory. Yeah, he's not going to fit in. Hensler.

Yeah. Hensler. Like, he's, still, he's not on the team. Like, he's just not on the team. He's not, you're right, but. And I think, you know, I don't, I think Fiddler did nothing to not endear himself to be, to be back after the U18s. Like, I think, to me, he was a fairly easy for RD.

I thought Fidler was just okay at U18s, honestly. And, and I, and he, he's not having a great year, like, guy. He isn't? He's one of the best players on one of the, best teams in this WHL right now. He, the last few times I've watched Blake, he has

fought it. His puck plays kind of crap, but I think he's a good defender. That's the thing is like, I think I think right now, like if you're USA though, and you're looking like these are, I have a feeling the debates are much more impassioned and

much more banging your head against the wall in the actual USA room. And we haven't even gotten to the one where. Oh, the goalies? We haven't even gotten to the one where you're just like, uh-oh. So. Well, we'll get there very shortly here.

Let's settle on our D here. So I believe we're pretty consensus that Cole Hudson is one LD. Split opinions on who's opposite him between those three right defensemen. Anyone have a really strong feeling that it should be Cleber, Emery, or Hensler? I just think it'll be Emery or Hensler. I just think it'll be Emery because of the track. familiarity program of them as a pair Chris

yeah I don't I'm I think EJ is probably going to be on their bottom pairing yeah all right so we'll say Cleber for now second pair would be I think we're are we saying Osborne are we saying Dakota

I mean I think I honestly think those sec those next 4D which I presume we're going to be Osborne Emery Hensler and Ray Lollin you could just do whatever combination you want of those to be perfectly Oz. I think they're pretty similar

talent-wise. I think Osborne is probably the second pairing guy over Rome Mullen. I agree. Yeah. And my thought there was to go with Osborne with Emery just because I think Hensler, a little more of the offense too, to spread it around.

But I think you can kind of go any different way with that. You get the Wisconsin teammates together too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So then On the fourth pair, I guess, we're talking about, do we decide on Fiddler?

Or what do we decide on there? I mean, it's a pickum. It's a pickum. And honestly, it doesn't matter because they're never going to see the ice. We decided to be very sad. And I would surprise, I think Chris or I, if Bob just brought Mott's go just brought Rombach, quite honest. That's the reason I had Rombach has kept the guy. Rombach will be the 4LD and it's opposite.

I think we're saying Fiddler at this point. All right. So the goalies. To Chris's point, when I was putting my projection together, I was like, all right, somebody's got to be off to a hot start. And I went through our projections from the summer. And I did not like what I found. So I left it exactly as we had this summer, which was Nick Kemp, Caleb Heil and Patrick Quinlan. I know you guys all had a slightly difference.

I don't think anyone else had Quinlan on this roster. Harrison Bottinger and Cam Hendrickson were the two names that we ended up vying between the three of you. Chris, how do you see this position shaking out? for the U.S. I mean, I think Kemp is the only option and will be the only option for them as the number one goalie. Caleb Hyle is going to the World Junior A Challenge, but he is very much still in the mix and very likely, I think, to be the number two goalie on this team.

I put Harrison Bodiger there because he's the, like, he won't be because he wasn't even that at the under 18 worlds last year. I don't know what happened where, you know, he was their best goalie. at the USACHL challenge and then really saw a playing time dip over the course of the year. But really, it is, it is a, like, just think of the gap from Trey Augustine and Hampton-Slicinski and Jacob Fowler the year before to where we're at now. And listen, it's hard. I don't mean to be, like, mean to these goalies.

Like, they are all, like, Kemp is a, you know, they're, they're legitimate, prospects and they're they're going through it. But the fact of the matter is, it's like, you know, like Cam Hendrickson and Jackson Parsons and or Jack, Jack Parsons and all the guys that they have brought in to the camp, they're play, they played two games. You know, they have not even, they're not their team starter. They're barely their backup at this point. And so this is the, this is the pool that you're pulling from. And like, I was even trying to look outside of like, is there anybody that we're missing? Is there anybody that we're missing? Is there anybody out there. Who do you got? Do you have one, Scott? They're not going to be in the mix.

But both Minchak and Fedorov, Federolf have been two of the better goalie. Like, I've seen both them play live already this year. They've been two of the better goalies in the O HL, which is why it's ironic that that Max had had Quinlan on his team, another OHL guy because he's been, I think he's like Sarnia has been a disaster. He was the starter at U18's last year. Yeah, exactly. But, but Minchuk, like Minchak has outplayed Gavin Betts in Kingston and Federalov's the starter. Ottawa. Like they've, they're not going to be in this conversation. They've never represented USA hockey. That is a good, that is a good pull though. There are American goalies. Yeah, there are American goalies playing, playing well. They're just not the five who were in camp.

Although Kemp's been decent this year. Yeah, like he's been fine. And I know that they went to look at him again just to kind of see how he's been doing. And it sounds like, you know, he had a good weekend in front of the USA brass. And, you know, it is, it is what it is. You know, I think that it's probably the weakest goaltending crop that I've seen here. I mean, Corey, I was thinking like they did have, you know, a few years ago, Caden and Barraco was their starter, but then they did eventually go to Augustine, who was the underager at the time, you know, and went back and forth a little bit. So, you know, there have been times where, where the goaltending has been a weaker position. Then there have also been years where you didn't really know what they're going to have, like the year Kyle Kaiser was

their starter and other things like that. And they find a way. You just got to hope that one of those guys is going to have his A-game in that setting because otherwise it's going to be a long tournament. Or a short tournament. Or a short tournament. It's going to take a while. Yeah, in front of the home fans too.

So good, good one. All right. So here is our team USA. Not the most inspiring group, but you never know. And you get into one of these tournaments, I think you're hoping that a team comes together and you can make something happen. And if you get to the knockout round, good things are possible. That is going to do it for us after a long and grueling episode of the athletic hockey show Prospect Series. You can, of course, catch more of Chris over at Flow hockey on his podcast called up.

We'll talk to you soon.