The Athletic Hockey Show - Canada’s WJC roster announced, Rutger McGroarty ready to go for the US?, listener questions, and more

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

It’s Friday and another brand new episode of The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series as Max and Corey, both on location at Team USA’s world junior camp, are first joined by The Athletic’s Scott Wheeler to discuss Team Canada’s official 2024 world junior roster, Macklin Celebrini as the best forward on the ice at camp, who’s going to start in goal, and more.Then, FloHockey’s Chris Peters joins Max and Corey on-site to give final thoughts on Team USA’s roster and discuss the latest on Rutger McGroarty and his likelihood to play in the tournament, James Hagens’ potential role, how Danny Nelson could be an impact player for the US, Zeev Buium’s impressive showing, and more. Plus, the guys close out the show with a bunch of listener questions in the mailbag.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGift a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $19.99 or a 2-year subscription for $39.99 when you visit theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Corey Promin and Scott Wheeler for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show's Prospect Series. Chris Peters is going to join us in a little bit. But we are starting off here talking about the Team Canada World Junior Camp. Scott and Corey, you were both there, I believe. And we are going to dive right in with the B player of the 2024 draft class, Macklin Celebrity, the presumptive number one overall pick. And I guess we'll start with you, Scott.

What are your impressions coming out of this camp of what Macklin Celebrity looked like? Well, I think everyone's impressions were kind of that he was the best player on the ice. Team Canada staff in their sort of wrap up, both Scott Salmon and Peter Anholz said they were actually surprised by how good he looked relative to everybody else. He seemed a cut above. I think they were expecting him to make the team. They were expecting him to be a good player for the team. I'm not sure they were expecting him to necessarily be the guy. on this team. And I think there's a real opportunity that he's, if not the guy, then pretty close.

Obviously, the true locks of the camp sat out. So we didn't get to see Connor Geeky. We didn't get to see Matt Savoy. There were sort of marquee players that are going to be a big part of this lineup that didn't play. But of the group who did play, he was really the best forward at least in probably both the games. When he was out there, it was consistent touches, consistent plays. He was driving offense. He was really carrying the puck a lot through neutral ice and into the offensive zone. And it was, it was, everything seemed to run through him. So that was, I think really, I think they were actually very excited about that and kind of pleasantly surprised, which if you can be that about Macklin-Sellebrini at this point is, is kind of a big deal. Yeah, I think with Celebrini,

he said, stood out. He was the best player there. I thought not only was he great offensively making a ton of plays. As you said, you know, a lot of good exits and entries with the puck. I thought he was one of their best defensive players, too, up front. He won a lot of battles.

He was very responsible defensively. And he's like, celebrating, I kind of term, like, it was just a guy who's just boring, very good. Like,

he may, like, he's extremely skilled and intelligent and competitive. Like, he may not have the wow factor of a Connor Badaard at times with terms of like the game breaking skill and the shot. But I think every part of this, this guy's game is either good to excellent.

He's been absolutely fantastic at Boston University. It was fantastic with the USHL, big part of the U.S.H. and World's a big part of the U20 team. Every part of his game just can really stand out. And I mean, I always kind of thought when I watched him when he was younger, that he could be up at Nico Hesier, two-way center with pretty good offense type of player. But the more I've watched him over the last year and a half, and especially recently, I think this guy's got a whole other level to his game.

I think there is the potential in his game to be a premier two-way player in the NHL. And I think it's going to start here with the World Junior Team for Team Canada in terms of mainstream exposure to this player. I mean, the biggest thing I'm hearing from both of you guys here is that, you know, you talked about Celebrity's production. And I think last year when we talked about, or not last year, sorry, last week when we talked about kind of the differences in what to expect from Celebrini than, say, of Connor Bedard and Alexei Lafranier. You know, the biggest difference is in these number one overall picks at World Juniors is the role. It sounds like he's going to get the chance to have the role to showcase all of this.

Yeah, I'm guessing he's either the first line wing or second line center on this team right now. I think that's the expectation. And I think they need him to be that because this team candidate isn't what the last two team canadas that won back-to-back goals are. And they won't maybe say it publicly, but they care deeply, I think, about another three-peat. It's been a long time since they've pulled it off. And they're going to need him to be a star. Which players on this forward group do you think fit well with Celebrini in his game?

I mean, obviously a player with the skills that he has. You don't have to work too hard to fit well next to him. But is there anyone you'd really love to see them play with Celebrini at this tournament? Well, it's funny. I know they were a little disappointed in the way that Carson Raycoff played in the first game. And then they stuck Carson Raycoff on Celebrini's line for the second game. And suddenly Carson Raycoff looked like Carson Raycoff again, right? So I think you're bang on there, Max.

Like he just has a way of making other players look like their best versions. It did seem like him and Jordan Dume, and they both spoke about it. They felt like they were really clicking. So I think that's a pair. And it makes some natural sense. If your first line is two thirds of that Wenatchie line in Connor Geeky and Matthew Savoy, then it makes a lot of sense to have Celebrini and Dume, who are really after Geeky and Savoy are probably your next two most prominent offensive players.

And if they already feel like they've got chemistry and if Dumei feels like his smarts and his playmaking can play off of that driver in Celebrini, then that's a duo. I'm not sure who the third player is going to be on that line. They can try Matthew Wood there. They could try Carson Ray Cop there. But it does feel like Dume and Celebrini might at least get a really long look here. It feels strange. You're talking about a 17-year-old as maybe one of your best two-way players and a guy who can be your most responsible defensive player. on a U-20 line for Canada.

But I agree with that. And I think that you look at some guys who are more, maybe offensive might not have to say well-rounded game, like Raycoff, like Dumay, like Wood. Those feel like natural partners for Sal Brini. You know, Matt Savoya is very offensively talented, but there is a little bit more two-way in his game where I feel like that's maybe not the most natural blend,

unless you're talking about maybe a tough-minute's matchup kind of line. Moving on to kind of the rest of the roster, there was a name that I know I was a little bit surprised not to see here. and that's Jagger Furcus, especially the season that he's having. Why do we not see Jagger Firkis on this team Canada, Corey? I think he was a little redundant in the lineup. And full disclosure, he was both in my and Scott's pre-camp projection for Team Canada. I think you looked at this team Canada.

You looked at Matt Savoy on the wing there. Most likely you looked at Jordan Dumay on the wing for Team Canada. You have Easton Cowanow on this team too. And I think there was definitely, at least from what I've heard, there was a concern, I think, within the brass that if they put in a guy like Fergus, I think that forward line was too small. I think with potentially Savoy and Dumay already on the right wing, you would have three, you know, small scoring wingers. And that was a concern. And frankly, you know, Fergus is a very talented. He's a great score.

Shoot the puck really well, very skilled. But he was quite poor at camp, I thought. He had no pace in his game. And I think his skating has always been an issue. But I thought he was behind the pace at times. in camp didn't create a ton on the power pole. He looked kind of dangerous, but even strength,

there wasn't much he was creating. And I thought, you know, whenever line he was on, and it wasn't just him. Obviously, a line is always the contribution of three players, but his line had even strength in the two games. Didn't really contribute a whole lot.

You know, he wasn't really winning battles. In the second game, the fifth U-sports goal is a direct result of a poor turnover. He made in the offensive zone. So it just wasn't a good week. he's a good, he's a good player. I still think he's a good pro prospect for Seattle.

But his performance this week, I thought, just led to the cut. And like I said, I thought it was, he would have needed to significantly outplay someone like Jordan Dume, I think, to make this team. And Peter Anhold, the management lead for this year's team is the Lethbridge Hurricanes GM. He sees Moose Jaw a ton in speaking with him after the camp wrapped up. I think he was on his projected roster coming in. He talked about how he loves his competitiveness and his skill, and they felt that he could be a power play guy for them.

They felt that he could be even a worker for them as well. They like the sort of drive that Jaggerfurcus plays with. And then he was actually pretty blunt, pretty surprisingly blunt after you've just cut a kid in saying that they thought he played poorly and he didn't rise to the challenge. And that was ultimately the sort of decision point, if you will. So it literally just, I think, came down to the way that he played in those two U sports games. games against big, strong 23, 24, there was even a 25-year-old player on that U-Sports team.

And he just, he wilted a little bit. And I think they were worried about that in terms of where he fit in the lineup, how high he needed to play. And whether there was room for him there, just the slot started to fill up. And I think push comes to shove. They wanted the size of Carson Rakoff and Matthew Wood and some of the longer wingers to be a part of the group. interesting contrast between how, say, Team Canada, at least recently in terms of how they make their teams, compared to how Team USA makes their team.

Team USA has historically had, you know, major competitive environment, playing other international teams, playing college teams, playing the NTP as a way to evaluate their players at a competitive format. The Team USA of late tends to pretty much bring the team they're bringing to the tournament to their camp, plus my other couple of players, essentially, who they cut at the last second. Whereas Team Canada, to contrast, plays competitive environment games and plays a lot of value on those competitive environment games in making the hard decisions. You know, I think it's interesting to see just, you know, I'm not sure which process is the best one. But, you know, like you said,

I think Firkis with all the team coming in doesn't play well in those games and now he's not. You don't see really see Team USA forcing themselves into those kind of decisions. How about on the blue line? Obviously, an area that I think we expect Team Canada to be a little deeper this year. Anyone really catch your eye, Corey? Well, I thought Oliver Bonk was very good.

I think he came in as a relative lock for the blue line, and he played quite well. And, you know, with his size, mobility, puck moving, I thought he was, you know, pretty good. They had half of their blue line as locks coming in. Vented Matechuk, Maverick, Lambert, Tristan Linneau, didn't play in either of the games, games, new sports.

So with those three pretty much locked in, and then Oliver Bonk, I thought he wasn't a pure lock coming in, but he had a very strong chance. Then it just left a couple of spots open on the blue line to see how the rest of the defense would slot in. And those spots went to Noah Warren, to Jake Furlong, and Tanner Mollandike. And Tanner Mollandike, sorry. And Tanner Mollandike actually only played in one of the games the second game he was for.

He was heard coming in. And I think that just shows how highly they thought of the play. They only need to see him play one game, probably not at 100%. and he makes the team. I mean, he's been so good in the Western Hockey League this season. A big part of a top Saskatoon team. Excellent skater, competitive, moved to puck's well. Not really a shock to see him make the team.

I think where Scott and I had some disagreements at the camp was on the play of Noah Warren. I like to play of Noah Warren quite a bit there. 6-5, mobile, extremely physical. His puck moving will never inspire confidence. There's a reason I think he has like four points or something in like 25 QMJHL games this season. The skilled offensive hockey center. definitely issues, but actually thought he was actually jumping up with the plays and to create offense.

And he was, I thought, doing the things defensively you expect from Noah Warren. That's why he made the team kind of like a Nolan Allen role that he'll play this season on that team. But if you're expecting offense out of this player or even Chris Outlet passes, I think you're not going to get that from him. But I think in a six, seven role on this team, he can have success. Yeah, I actually liked Warren jumping up into the play. He had two chances, one off the side of the post in the first game and another sort of

good look in the second game where he was below the goal line and using his frame and jumping in. So that was that to me was the positive piece. I actually thought he really struggled defensively. He was on the wrong side of the ice and caught out a position on two goals against in the second game and one goal against in the first game. There were a few moments inside the defensive zone were along board battles. A puck just sort of squirted loose from a battle and he was he was the slower player sort of tracking back to the net against a U-sports opponent to get to a chance kind of thing.

So I just felt like he was a little bit out of position and a little sloppy and a little hectic in his own zone. Now, that's maybe not what they've seen in Noah Warren all year. And I think they expect him to be a more steady presence than that for them. And then the size element, I think, is obviously a huge factor in that decision. So as a six, seven, I don't think he's going to be a major issue for this team. But I do think if you're playing an American team or even the Swedes in this tournament, that there's going to be some mismatches with Noah Warren out there.

I do just feel like he's maybe a cut below the other defenseman that they brought. Yeah, I just think with the mobility and the length and the physicality, I think he's playing 10 minutes and night killing penalties. I like what he brings to the table, but obviously he has some limitations. But I think generally this blue line they're going to be leaning on, particularly on the right side. You know, they have Lammu, they have Luno, like, those guys look at the tougher matchups.

Yeah. Coming in, I think we all knew the biggest question around this team Canada team was in goal. And so I ask the jury, do we have a verdict? I don't know about a verdict yet, but there are some guys that I thought, at least if I had to make a bet right now in terms of how things are going to play out, that I think will be their guys as being a closer to determine. For me, I prefer the two QMJL goalies. You know, Mattis Rousseau has been excellent all season in the queue. He had a solid camp there for Team Canada. The side is a question, but I mean, all this guy does seem to stop pucks, which is,

that's not something you can say about a lot of the candidates for Canada and goal this season throughout the CHL. So I think they like that. And really the play of Samuel St. Hilaire has kind of come out of nowhere a little bit. The guy without a whole lot of high level experience, but he looked quite good in the QMJL this season. I thought in the second game against the youth sports, he made some really tough say. and showed some quickness elements. He has decent size. So I like the way he played.

Scott Ratsklaff, who has also made the team, I thought, had some steady moments. You know, I think Don Steven Chintz, who was the one goalie cut, I thought deserved the cut. I thought he was, he's been underwhelming all season. And it's kind of interesting that the OHL goalie of the year, reigning OHL goal of the year is the one who does not make this team. But from what I saw at the camp, he seemed like the fourth of the four goalies. Yeah, I think that's sort of where things. I wondered early in camp whether they were, whether Hockey Canada was starting to get nervous.

Matthew Sousseau, who's actually been the best goalie of the, of the four who they brought to camp, allowed the first three goals of camp. He allowed the only two goals in the red-white scrimmage and then the first goal of the first U-Sports game pretty early on in that game. And then from there on out, I thought Rousseau was excellent. I thought Ratslap was good in both games. He gave up one goal in both of the games and was steady throughout. He's played under Alan Latang at the Hohenka-Gregretzky Cup and won a gold medal at the

Lincoln-Kretsky Cup under Alan Latang, who's this year's World Junior's coach. And then St. O'Lear, as Corey mentioned, just an awesome, awesome story. He wasn't even playing in the QMJHL until last year as an 18-year-old. And he was a backup last year. So his first year as a starter at the major junior level is as a 19-year-old this year. He's the starter under Gilles Bouchard, who's an assistant coach with Canada and Sherbrook. So there's obviously some trust between at least one member of the coaching staff in St. Hila. And he, as Corey mentioned, he showed some athleticism.

he made some big saves, probably two or three of the bigger saves of camp. And it feels like he's sort of in the mix here as a bit of a dark course. So I almost wonder whether because they have three pre-tournament games, whether they might give each of these guys one of the three pre-tournament games, and then you've got to decide on a tandem and a number three at that point heading into the tournament. Yeah, I think that's perfectly fair. I don't think anyone's clearly run away with it. My bet is the two Quebec goalies are their goalies when a,

boxing day rolls around, but it's definitely not decided by any means. Regardless of who it is, I mean, how should Team Canada feel about what they have going in? I mean, we expect you're going to see multiple goals over the course of a tournament. Is this the Achilles potential Achilles' seal of this team? I don't think you can be confident that they're going to win a game for you. I think yours hoping they don't lose a game for you right now, which I think both, well, not both, all three of the candidates have a talent to be that, to be solid, to be, you know, useful goalies at the world junior level,

but I don't think you are looking to them as potentially the top goalies in this tournament. Although things can change, I would have, you know, Dylan Garin wasn't much bigger than Mattis Rousseau when he was excellent for Team Canada. Same thing with Devon and Levi. So maybe they can find some match.

Last year. Right, same thing. So you're not looking for great NHL prospects right now, you just need someone to win you a couple of tough junior games. And I think the difference there is that both of the goalies for the Americans and certainly you go have lead for the Swedes. They can steal a game at this level. Same with Adam Guyon for the slowback.

So I think Corey's bang on there. They need what, 900 save percentage kind of quality goaltending. They don't need that. They shouldn't expect a sort of 920, 930 situation here. All right. That is going to do it for this first segment. We'll take a quick break. We'll come back.

We'll bring in Chris Peters and we will talk some team USA. We are back and we have brought in from Flohockey Chris Peters. Hi, how's it going, guys? Good to be with you. Into the suite here at Corey's Hotel. Altogether, which is always fun and altogether because we're all at the USA World Junior Camp. There is a downside to this, which is that unlike Canada, we do not have a completed roster yet as we sit here recording this Friday at 3pm. That means chance.

If you listen to this on Saturday afternoon, something. that we may say may be outdated by that, which frankly is longer than it takes for most things I say to become outdated. Yeah. So maybe that's a good thing. But as things stand, the latest, gentlemen,

we'll start with you, Chris, I guess, here, on Rucker McGroarkey. That I think is where everyone's focus is at going into this camp. Yes. You know, we weren't sure even coming in, you know, would he be skating? Would he be available for that part? Well, he is skating.

He is a red non-contact jersey. He is a full participant in all drills. The one thing that they have said definitively is that he has not been medically cleared to play, but they still have time. And we were talking on our last episode. Would he even be able to get on the plane? I think we have a reasonable feel that yes, he will. Whether or not that means he gets cleared for the tournament still remains to be seen. But they are going to give him every opportunity to make it. And based on how he's looked in camp, the only noticeable difference between him and the other players is that he's in a red non-contact jersey.

He's played in every drill. Even when they're doing battle drills, he's in it. They're just not, obviously, not going after him as hard. He's killed penalties. Yeah, he's been killing penalties. You know, like that's the thing. And they basically have them what's slotted on what seems to be USA's top line with Cutter Goce and Jimmy Snuggaroo, you know, whether or not that continues, we'll find out, you know,

as they get into the pre-tournament games. But pretty clear that, you know, Rucker McRourty is angling for his return. and it's really going to come down to medical clearance at this point. Yeah, and Canada announced 12 forwards for their roster. They left out one spot open for potential NHL loan or to add an injury replacement option later in this process. We kind of have seen the news lately that as we report today, Matt Cuadra is not playing for Boston in their next game.

So that's somewhat interesting. We'll see what that is. When USA announced their roster, the expectation is 14 forwards. be named on that roster and that that's in there in a situation where McGrady can't go they can injury stuff about I expect that he'll be registered on team USA when one of the tournament happens made on the first day but stuff he'll be part of the initial registration and then if they figure that he can't go or he does go

and then he re-injured himself whatever reason they'll bring him out and put that injury replacement for it in instead you pick them only have to cut two forward that camp right yeah and that's that's an important thing like USA will announce 25 players. They've said that up the whole way. They can only have 23 active at one time. The goalies are decided in terms of the three goalies, but the skater spots are still open. And to

Corey's point, like, you know, one way or the other, there's going to be the capability of Rucker McRourty being added to that active roster. So, you know, when you see that, and the other thing that will be interesting, USA opens a tournament against Norway. Don't be completely shocked

if they only register 12 forwards. I mean, you know, like it's impossible. As Corey said, We both think he's probably going to get registered for the tournament, but there's always that possibility that they don't register the full complement of forwards in order to leave that spot open and then make a decision based on whatever information they have at that time. Or how big of a difference maker is Rooker McRodry on this team? He's obviously an experienced player, a veteran player, and a multi-dimensional player, but this is also a very deep U.S. roster.

Right. Even when we saw them at practice today, this is the guy who was on the first power play unit at last year's tournament. He wasn't on either power play unit for this team's version, at least currently, that could change. I don't think it's just because he's in the non-conductors. I think that they have so many talented options up front that I think they just leaned in some of the other direction for their skill players, for their scores. But he still, this is an extremely competitive player. If healthy, he is expected to be the first line left wing on this team to play a significant role. I still expect him to score.

I don't know if he's going to score on major levels without the power play opportunities. maybe he takes out Danny Nelson on that one unit who maybe not will talk on the later Danny Nelson has looked a very good all season in at camp the out of second round pick but that's possibility he'll kill penalties so still play a lot of even strength but like I said this is a very deep forward group

and I don't think they can really lose anyone maybe Cunner Gojibby the one guy but I don't think they really can lose anybody from this forward group and lose a ton of momentum on that front because I think they have so many options and that will extend to their 13th and 14th four decisions as well. So you mentioned Cutter-Ghoyer, and to open camp here, throughout the summer we had seen

him play both at left-wing and at center. The open camp, it was at center. And I wonder what that means for the guy who, I think we had kind of been wondering, is he going to take this Logan Cooley spot? That'd be James Higgins. You're right. I think throughout most of the camp, we've seen that maybe Hagan won't play a prominent role. There was, I think, one moment in the second day of camp where he did go to the top line

said with Goce on the wing and snuggled on the wing. But throughout most of the camp, he has figured more as a winger and Goce has looked like the guy that they will lean on in the major responsibilities. We actually haven't seen Haken's on either of the three power play units that they've been rolling out in practice, which is not a great spot for him, given that he is a skill guy, not really a penalty killer. You know, there's a chance he might open the tournament of the 12, 13th, four type of option. But I thought when we watched him in the in strength drills today that he stood out in a really positive way. And you see what their alternative options are with all due respect to Quinn Finley,

with due respect to William White Law and to Carrie Terrence. I don't know how you can leave Hagan's off the roster. Maybe he's not in the starting 12. You know, we thought maybe there's a spot he could fill in. He might still fit into a certain spot, but he is, you know, a draft minus one. This is a very difficult for Jeff McAnneux on to make Team USA in your money. Deep Team USA. Maybe he's the 13th.

Maybe he's the injury replacement. I don't see how they can't bring him to Sweden, given how dynamic a skater he is. I agree with that. You know, and I think the other thing, too, is with McGority, you know,

you're talking medical clearance, and then all of a sudden, what is not available? Right. And I think that what we see from James Taylor, they've even put them out there in those penalty killing minutes. They tried everybody in PK,

just so everybody knows. Like, they're, basically they weren't on one of the top two power players. They were pretty much killing penalties, no nonstop in this tournament or in this camp. But what I, that versatility is really, key is where if James Higgins isn't on your power play, he obviously has to prove other ways

that he can be impactful for the team. But then on the other side of it is too, is if, if certain guys aren't going, you want that younger player with that skill level with that, you know, and I've always thought that the 13th forward shouldn't be reserved for a penalty killing specialist or a power play specialist. Should be reserved for a guy that you think you can plug in wherever you need to. And you get that, you know, so it's not just one, he doesn't. does one thing. And I think that's what James Hagan's can be. I think if there's one area where he hasn't stood out in this is that clearly the physical maturity is a factor. And I think that we saw that in drills. I think that we saw that when he's even going head to head and, you know, I saw him go

one-on-one with Lane Hudson. What a fantastic exploration that was in terms of seeing both how they both move and everything. But you could see, you know, Lane's got two years on him. He's got more muscle and different things that and obviously he's not a big guy but you could see that difference in physical maturity and so um i i just but to cori's point i agree completely i don't see how you can leave him home now the only thing is is if you're taking 14 forwards and he's 14 i think you'd rather have him playing with the national team development program than have him with you in case there's an injury but i still think he should be among the 13 forward to the team that we talked last week about There is some value for these guys who you expect to play a role next year.

And we certainly expect James Hagan to have a role in this team next year to bring them along and get them through that process. There's kind of a fine line to walk there. They did bring Stensche-Ni and the third goalie to one year. Yes. They have done that off. Yeah. And yeah, and I think that that is a factor for sure,

especially since they have such quality among their 19-year-olds this year. Was Dempsoe the third goalie in his draft season? I believe he was, yeah. Yeah, so there's a lot of, there's, there's just a lot of options they have available to them here. So we'll see, but I do think the thing for me is if you bring James Hagan's just as a, as an active observer, that may not be the best for him long term. But if he's there and he's playing, then that's a good thing. And the other thing is too is, you know, what if Carter Goce is not getting it done down the middle? What if, you know, and what it all of a sudden, you know, okay, we need to put Frank Nazar up there.

We need to put up a different player. Having a guy like Higgins, who is very strong at the center position as a facilitator can be a play driver. I just think that that's the kind of thing that I would prefer if I were that staff. You mentioned Danny Nelson a couple minutes ago in the standout camp he's having. What is popping? This is a player who I think was so fascinating for so many reasons last year. The late surge, he's obviously got the history as a defenseman, but he seems to really be finding his groove here as a forward. And even in his draft season, he didn't really play well consistently.

There was a lot of moments, especially in the middle of the season, where you wanted a whole lot more for Daniels. You weren't sure whether he was a scorer. Was he a defensive finder forward? Was he a hard player to play against? He lacked an identity. And he kind of found it towards the end of the season. He had a really strong U.8 team roles for USA. scored a big goal in the gold medal game and was very good defensively for that team, especially in a PK role.

Then he comes into Notre Dame this season. And he's been a lightdown good for Notre Dame. He plays huge minutes. I think he nearly played a point per game while playing in all the situations and being a guy that can help a Notre Dame team that's winning a lot of games right now and being a big reason why they're winning games. So when we've been projecting Team USA throughout the pre-trimand process, the same year that summer, we thought maybe Charlie Strambles the fourth-line center,

obviously not happen, it's not even in camp. We thought maybe Oliver Moore's going to be the fourth-line center. They played a big role on Team USA at the UA team level, had that two-way value in him, but what we've seen here at camp, Danny Nelson has clearly shown that he can be that type of player for this team. I think Oliver Moore can still be on this team, but I think Danny Nelson looks like a little bit above

those other options we're thinking of whether it is Terrence, whether it's Finley, whether it is Moore. And I think this is a guy, you know, with the size, the skating, to compete, and the offense that we weren't always sure was there has kind of come along with him more. He's actually on a power play unit. Oliver Moore is not right now.

You know, he has that net front presence with the side. and to compete that I think they want. And I think he's going to, I don't know if he's going to play big men. Again, there's, he could be the fourth-line center, but then you have, you know, Nazar at the three spots, Will Smith and Cutter Gochi potentially ahead of him. But I think he's going to help this team in a notable way. Yeah, I agree completely, too.

And he's throughout the two days, too, just watching him. It's just like, not only does he clearly belong, he clearly belongs in, in where they, like, the situation they put him in, had being on the power play, being the net front guy. I mean, he's been snapping around. You know, you're watching, they've got two elite goaltenders here on this roster. And he was putting a lot of pucks and nets in drills where there was a competitive element to it. And so seeing him kind of snap it around the way that he was today even, you know, as we sit here on Friday,

that was eye-opening as well because this is a player that's now, he's been a number one center at Notre Dame this year for a lot of the year. And he's the way that he plays is works there. It's obviously not the role that he's going to play here. But to Corey's point, he has found this kind of identity of like, I can impact the game in a lot of different ways. And I think USA, and this is probably why Nelson on top of, you know, the season that he's had, beat out Stramel as well as because there's, now you've got a fourth line and you said, we can get goals out of this.

We can get a lot. I mean, there's a, there's the potential of a number of players that could play there. And maybe that means more as a wing on this line. I still think he's going to make the team in some capacity. But, you know, that's going to be fascinating to watch that dynamic. But, you know, you think back to last year and Oliver Moore was the number two center for that U-18 team. And now Danny Nelson is looking like, you know, he could play down in the middle for this world junior team, not even a, you know, not even a year later.

It wasn't that that weird dynamic of points last season two were more and Nelson on the same line? But yeah, yeah, Nelson was a wing. And didn't work out. And they had to move Nelson off. And it's funny, you know, development could not always be a straight line and players changed substantially. Typically, obviously, as Matt said, there were some unique things in his background with the lack of experience of the forward position, particularly. That doesn't make it too surprising. You know, we saw that kind of talk with Keondry Miller with a very little experience, you know, he was a forward historical.

Yeah. A limited experience at defense up and down in draft season, ended it on up, and then he just kept going on. Yeah, and there was actually a point during summer camp. where I was like, maybe Danny Nelson's going to have to move back to this team. Because they don't have, you know, they don't have much size. And here is this 6-3 guy. And, you know, the other thing that I think has also been notable to just want to point out to is the pace of the game. He has been equal to it or ahead of it at some cases, which has been a very positive development,

because I don't think we saw that last year. One of the players, I think we talked about out of the summer camps, more in relation to the chemistry with Frank Naser, it was Isaac Howard. And I wonder if maybe we should give a little more attention to Joe. just him as a stand-alone player and what he might add. You talked about the power play units, Corey. I mean, this is a player who certainly in his draft year had a pretty big offensive impact for that entity.

Right. As we say it right now, Chris and I don't really know which of their power play is actually power play one, power play two. I don't think they know either. I think this might be one of those junior teams where they're going to put the unit out that's the most fresh and not the one that necessarily they think is the best. Maybe they figured that unit out by the end of tournament into the game. games that really matter.

But Howard is flanking on one of the units. I think he's opposite to kind of goche on the L. L.X. And Lane Hudson, you know, so if you had to pick the control of PowerPlay one, probably the guy is a two world championship resumes on that unit. And, you know, he's been a little bit better, you know, this season at Michigan State than he was the previous year at Arizona Duluth. I still think you worry about him a little bit with his side and a lack of true

top end speed in his game. But in a scoring role, with PowerPlaying target, I think you can see him having success. I don't think he's going to be your best forward on a really deep group of forward, but I think he's shown throughout the season that he could help this team in a very particular role. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we have been kind of talking about what do you make the team if Rucker McRourty is healthy? And now I think that's not the question.

I don't think that is a question. You know, played a little bit with Frank Nazar and Greta. Gavin Brinley on what we assume would be a third line for this team. And I thought that Isaac has looked better here in this summer or this winter camp than he did in the summer, even though he looked pretty good there too. So, you know, I think that he's really rediscovered his game. And, you know, we talk about that PP1, where you have that group and then you just go to PP2 and Jimmy Snuggarood and Will Smith and Seamus Casey, if that's two. if we want to call that too, you know, that it is incredible. And to be able to trot those two groups out and when, you know, that we thought maybe,

you know, Marlorey could replace Howard, you know, in that power play one. No, he, that's not what happened. Nobody got replaced because they were really clicking. So, and obviously special teams is so important in a short tournament. So, you know, that's going to continue to be a big factor is his impact there. You talked about the uncertainty we had around the D this summer, Chris. And part of that, you know, has started to answer itself. And maybe the biggest answer that has come around is a guy that David Carl is extremely

familiar with. It's his own defenseman, his own freshman defenseman at Denver, Z. Bouillon, who now looks like he's going to play a big role. Yeah, I think it's pretty clear at this point that they like him as a top four defenseman here, you know, playing on the same pairing as James Casey. And now if you're an opposing forward, trying to forecheck those two guys, you're going to have to catch them first. know, like that's, that's kind of amazing. And, you know, I think that this U.S. team is going to be built

on quickness, puck possession, moving pucks up ice. And we've seen Z. Booiam do that very effectively. I think at times he's looked exceptional in this camp. He made a number of plays on Friday that where he was stick handling in a phone booth, where he was getting through players, there's still that element of risk in its game. And you might not get the best defensive shifts all the time, but he and David Carl have talked about how hard he has worked on his defensive game and how it is improving. And I think

that we're starting to see that a little bit here as well. But this is not a big blue line. And there was no way they could manufacture size because there just aren't, the age group did not dictate this. So you've got three of your top defensemen are, you know, six

foot or shorter. You know, like and Ryan Chesley's like the biggest one at six, oh, six, maybe six 0 and a half and 6-1. You know, and that's your top four. So, you know, those guys are going to have to play big minutes and they're going to get a lot of pressure. But the way that Zee Buoyum has played at this camp, it just, I think it's a continuation of how he's played all season, for one. And two, it's just the maturation in his game and watching the other players just kind of get excited about what he's doing is pretty impressive as well.

So I'm fascinated by Zeev. I think that, you know, he could really open a lot of eyes in terms of what his ultimate draft stock is for this year. But I think he's a far better player now than he was at last year's U-18 World Championship and at this last summer camp. And, you know, I don't know what to attribute that to aside from the fact that, you know, I think there's a lot of confidence there and he's playing at another level. Yeah, Lisa, I think Zeev, Zeev, Hudson, Casey are all outstanding with the puck in different ways. Casey with the shiftyness with his skating and his skill. Hudson is, you know, as an elite offense hockey sense, you know, great edge work. Makes guys, Mitz, a ton of plays.

Zeev, he does not, he's a good skater, not as an enfuskator the other two, but, you know, he's exceptionally smart, really skilled, big ton of plays. I do think when you look at Team USA, that is, even though I think the situation of the Blue Line has improved due to just how good Casey has looked this season, how continuously good Hudson is, continuing on his great freshman year, and the improvements that you've seen by just how good Zee, volume had been at the college level right away. I still think when you look at Team USA,

it is the biggest issue. I think you compare it to say Team Canada's blue line, who has a small top mover in Denton Mateja, but they also could try out their Maverick Lamarro. They could try out their Noah Warren interest in Luno and Oliver Baum, more traditional top blue line prospects that you want at the junior level, whereas I think, you know, Team USA has an edge on them in goal, they have an edge on them at a forward.

I think it's whether they will be able to check the top forwards that team Canada will roll out there and the team swing will roll out there will be the biggest still question for this team, even if it's maybe not as dreadful situation as we thought it was going to be in the summer. Yeah, and just at that point, too, the puck possession and then, you know, when you're actually having to do static defense in your defensive zone, when the other team has the puck, when you don't have the puck possession, you know, you do start to worry how easily are these teams that can get to the middle,

how easily are they going to be able to position themselves in front of the USA's, outstanding goal tenders, you know, that's going to be the key because, you know, we are going going to be playing on a bigger ice surface here too, but the game is still one between the faceoff dots and that's where maybe you start to have some concern. And David Carl talked a little bit about that today in terms of what it actually meant for, for Team USA to, to have, you know, not have the size. He's like, you know, this is what the age group kind of dictated. So it's going to be incumbent upon them to find a way to, you know, defend, use body position, use active sticks, different things like that to be more effective, but they're going to lack the heaviness

for sure. That being said, this is kind of similar to the same part of the conversation we had about their blue line last season. Different players, you know, there's maybe a little more depth on this one. They don't have a little cues on this one. Yeah. But it was the same kind of mantra we got it that, you know, this is going to be a small blue line.

We're going to move cups. We're going to be competitive. And really at the end of the day, when they had to get into the tough games, it didn't work out for them in that regard. Right. And that's why I do worry when you have to go against Brady and Kargiqi and Matt Savoy and Brian Yeager or Sweden when the Osslin and Etstrom and Beaks that are coming against you, whether this group will be able to handle that. All right. Let's take a quick break there and we will come back with the mailbag.

All right. We are back and we're going to wrap things up today with a mailbag. Good round of questions today. So shout out to the listeners. And the first one is from Jenna, who wants to know, Corey. who made the final team Canada roster that you were convinced had little to no chance before camp and who got cut that a week ago would have been incomprehensible. I really didn't know Owen Allard before from Sue St. Marie well at all.

I had watched a couple of Sue games in passing this season, but that's the team going to obviously they've been winning a lot of games in the season in the OHL. I got to dive into that team more here in the second half. I would tune in to watch a couple of guys see how Andrew Gibson's progress has been Detroit pick and Ardu McCarthy to Vegas pick. but I got maybe watching a little bit more because he looked quite good at the Canada camp strong skater good work ethic

made the occasional play offensive touch isn't amazing in his game he didn't make team Canada as an undeserving player he looked very good at the camp obviously has been helping the Greyhounds win a lot of games and so he definitely stood out in a very positive way among the cuts I didn't

I wasn't shocked by any of the cuts we discussed for us earlier in the episode that I thought he could make a team didn't have a good camp. He goes home. I thought Denver Barkie and Ty Nelson both had good camps, but I understood why they were cut. Nelson's a very small defenseman. Barkey's a small Ford who also is an 18-year-old and a 19-year-old.

And I just thought, you know, looking at this team, first on Nelson's point, you know, they have already, Devin Mateo. They have Tristan Luno. They liked Oliver Baum more than Nelson as a puck mover. So Nelson needed to make this team as a 5-9, 5-10, whatever he is, defenseman.

He needed to be in an offensive role. He was good, but not good enough to be in that offensive role. That's why I think he went home and they prefer a bigger guy like Noah Warren, like Oliver Bump,

ahead of him. And then in terms of Barky, I think good player, competed well, show good pace, made some plays. Then we actually kind of try to put together the roster

and where does he fit in the roster? What role does he play on this roster? I think he ran out of spots. You know, they had Easton Cowan, his London teammate in there, more than that bottom six

penalty kill type of role. I think that was the job he was kind of competing for. He wasn't taking Owen Beck's role. He wasn't taking Brandon Yeager's job. So I think while Barkie played well, that he is more of a next year realistic candidate. Swash Buckler wants to know. We'll start with Chris on this one.

Who the best rookie prospect in the HL is, two and a half months into this season. Suggestions are Stankovin and Brant Clark. Yeah. Do you have an alternative? No, I like that suggestion. I think Logan Stancoven has been awesome this year, of a little bit of the HL that I've watched.

Every time I watch Texas, he is a standout performer. You know, I think obviously the production has been there. We already knew, like, you know, the compete is there. You know, he's got the skill, he's got the hockey sense. You know, he's in a situation right now where he's in an organization that has the luxury of being patient with him and not real need to rush him. So I think that that's a really solid guy in there. You know, another guy that, you know, I'm sure we'll talk about a few guys,

but another guy that has stood out to me in viewings that's Nikita Chipperkov. I've seen the elements of his game that made him stand out to me in his draft year where, you know, there's obviously some scoring ability there. He's close to a point for game so far this season and has played, you know, well. But, you know, he also still has that kind of that competitive fire a little bit. And, you know, he can be a little bit mean at times. And you don't see that at times. it's hard for a younger player to do that at the pro level.

But I don't think that he's overwhelmed by anything that's kind of come his way. So, but, yeah, but I mean, you know, you look at Stancove in 29 points in 22 games so far this season. And, you know, 1.32 points per game for a first year HL player. Obviously, we knew as as one of the top junior players, you know, and the top CHL player in terms of award winning. he was going to be an impact guy at the HL level, and that's exactly what he's been so far, if not even better than we expect it would be. Right, and obviously you're thinking about pro prospect,

that was the question. You know, obviously, Brian Clark has the size variable on him, and the offense that he's shown this season has been quite significant. We know he's always had offense, but it was how good it was in the OHL last year,

a ton of offense. He goes American League, still one of the top offensive defense, but in the HAL right away. You know, but while he's bigger, I think Stan Coven, I think Clark compete hard, but Stan Cohen's got that real fire in him.

And I think he does. Well, Clark's feet are a question. They're not a question with Stancovin, which is why I think he will translate and be a very good NHL player one day. And Texas is winning a ton of games this season. The play of Stancove and the play of Maverick Borch was not a rookie, a second-year player, but really finding a strident of the American League.

Those two have been a big reason why Texas has been so successful this season. But, you know, like I said, Clark is up there. I think Matt Corrin, obviously, you know, probably an underrated story is about how good Connor has. Zerry's been with the flames as either. I think we thought it would be Matt Coronado would be there. It didn't Derry instead. Mac Coronado was winning the American League has been very good.

You know, and now I think you want to when Jacob Peltier comes back, come back. Where does he fit now in this team? There's a lot of competition now for spots in Calgary, at least forward. But for my, I would agree with you. For me, it would be Stan Cobb. But I understand why someone take Clark as well.

Yeah, for sure. All right. Next one is from bottom line hockey, who wants to know if Pavel Minkukov's emergence has surprised you and whether you think Olin Zellweger still has top pairing potential on the ducks. I don't know if he has top power potential, but I think, you know, among those top rookies, you just mentioned, I think you have to put Zellweger in there. I think, you know, whether it's him, whether it's Bogan Mayhew, you know, I think they've,

you know, he's been among the top rookie defensemen in the American League this season, you know, playing, you know, good minutes, contributing offense. I don't know what first pair, but I think he could be maybe be a second pair of guy. I think that what you're hoping, obviously the size is a moment. major, major question. You know, I've talked to the, the odd scout, though, see some shade of the kind of, you know,

where Sam Gerard wasn't the same age. They're hoping that Zellweger could be that similar type of player in the NHL and limited defensively, but has so much offense that you're willing to live with it. In terms of Minchikov, yes, very surprised. Not because, yeah, I didn't think he was a very good player. Still always, you know, still I'm ready to highly going in the summer,

thought he'd be a top board offenseman. I think he's going to be this good. I think he's got something like 15 points were in the NHLs board playing a major role in that. Anaheim, even when I saw that training camp, I thought he was good. I didn't think he was wow good. I didn't think I thought Zellweger was just as good. Luno had some good moments.

You know, I didn't think he was clearly separated from the pack. But I saw Anaheim's camp, but clearly, you know, he's been one of the best rookies in the NHL this season, skates really well, mooks puck really well, extremely skilled. And I think, you know, we were, I think Chris and I were having a good discussion the other day about the 22 class. You know, we were talking about Slavkovsky versus Kuli, you know, Slavkowski versus Right. And, you know, now I think, you know, as we get deep into the season, I think there's really, this class has always lacked, like the clarity who's the number, number one prospect. I think it's even less clear right now because of how good Mitchikov has been and how good Kortitsky has been in the NHL. Kooley has the most points out of them at that group this year in the NHL.

But I think Mitchikov's like one or two points fewer than Kooley this season. I think you can make a non-crazy argument. Kortchinsky is the best player from that draft class. I can make a non-crazy argument in Chikov's the best player from that draft class. I just think it was always so close, and now I think it's even closer. All right. Next one is from Charlie Douglas, Chris.

He wants to know. He says Z. Bouem seems to push himself in the top 10 discussion. You can answer that one first if you want. But he says if he has a strong world junior and maintains his play in production and do you, does he have a chance at going top five? Yeah, you know, it's a good question. And I get it, you know, I think Zeev is, he's been listed at 6-2 by Denver. He's not.

No. So just FYI. Generously, it would be 6'0. Generously 6'4, yeah. And honestly, like, and so as we saw last draft, as we've seen in previous draft, the defensemen that are in that rage are not going to go top 10 typically. You know, you have to be a special player. Quinn, you know, Quinn, you know.

Hughes, yeah, exactly. And Quinn was exceptional feet. I think Zeeves' feet are good. They're not amazing. But he had much more offense than Quinn did at the same age. More possible, yeah. And showing more offense in college. He's contributing more to a team's success than Quinn did at the same age.

That's very true. And I think that's a great point. And he is, like, it's not out of the question. We're just talking, we've got a draft class with a lot of different defensemen with the size factor and offensive capability. So you don't see, you know, and the draft has started to trend away a little bit from some of the, the quote-unquote, undersized defensemen. But what Zeeb William is doing this year in college hockey is ahead of what Lane Hudson was doing last year. And we were talking about how not since Brian Leach had a U-19 defenseman been this effective.

And now Zeev is better, like, you know, in a 40-game season, he's on pace to push past what, in Hudson did last season. So he has already matched Quinn's goal total and surpassed his assist total from Quinn's freshman year at Michigan. And the argument is December 15th. That's a hilarious. I know. I think it's a, you know, it's a great debate on him because, like that you have the other,

you know, you even in college, there's another defense made in college that we think is probably going to go ahead of Zee, boy, left and then in Artenborough shooting off. Never mind all the other great defense, like Sam Dickinson, like Anton Salaia, like Kariakum, I'm an extremely deep group of defensemen. I think kind of with Zeev, you know, I think top five is a little rich personally for me right now, but I think top 10 is a discussion you have to have. I'm not sure, not sure I have him there right now, but I think especially once you get to the other time of the world, junior is kind of a question of asking.

I think you have to have real serious conversation depending how well he plays there. Because I think, you know, with Zee, when I saw him with the program, the previous year, he thought, oh, this guy's pretty smart. He's got skills. He's good skater. Nothing's not the flash he's playing. And the world, he's talented. Then he watched him in Denver that he's going to like, okay, he's not just talented.

He's super talented. He's super intelligent. Like he's driving things. He's hoping a top college team win games in a meaningful manner. So I think, you know, I'm trying to think of like 606 one defense. And I went there. You probably start thinking of names you don't love like Adam Bochbock. But there might be some rhymes like Evan Bouchard, you know, in terms of the elite hockey sense,

you know, it's not going to be the best of. in the world. But that, Shard went around 10. I think, you know, 9 to 13 is kind of the area I think that Zee's going

to go in the draft. And that is starting to look like that, you know, 9 to 13 players deep is starting to look like kind of that top group kind of cutoff here, which is a little stronger

than I think I thought coming in. I've turned on this draft where I thought it was mediocre, maybe even below average down, leaning above average

because of the player of Z's what? Because of how good Sam Dickinson is in the future, because of the emergence in Anton Solive in Russia. Carter Yakupchuk is killing it in the Western League. He and Lindstrom's on fire right now in the Western Hockey League.

Really, the only guy going to the other direction is Cole Iserman. We thought it's probably going to be a top of three pick. If the draft happened today, I don't think he's going on the top five personally, but just give all these other great defensemen. And frankly, you know, Lynch was the center. You know, teams will prefer centers and defensemen to the scoring wingers. Right. I mean, I think you look at Demadoff and look at Iserman,

just because they're scoring wingers, unless their second halves are just absolutely fantastic. Like, I think some of those, those, those D, men, you know, I didn't even mention a look shoot off when I was going through that. Yeah, exactly. It's a great, it's such a, and that's a thing like this, this class is really risen. You know, they've turned, and I think part of it is because of that, that depth of the defensive group and the fact, the quality of that defensive group, which so many teams are going to be especially excited about.

So, yeah, but I mean, you know, to see Z. Bouillon, I there was, I mean, I was thinking, even coming into the year. Did you think that, like, he was a first round prospect, but what he, but he was kind of more bubbless. Yeah, I was talking to plenty of scouts he didn't have as a first rounder coming to the year. Now the question is, you know, does he go ahead of Eisenman? Does he go ahead of a shoot-off? Like, where does he fit in the USA ranking?

I think it's more the question right now for Z. Yeah, incredible. One of my favorite things about hosting this show is that sometimes when we do these mailbags, a listener will ask a question about the prospect I've never heard of. And I not only have to figure out how to say their name, but you figure out who they are in time to ask this question. So Van City Prospects, congrats to you for the latest edition of that. Corey, Vasily Atanasov.

Did I get that one right? Yes. All right. How good will he be when he comes to North America? And for the listeners out there who like me have no idea who that is, 21-year-old forward in Russia, who is going absolutely crazy for torpedo with nearly a point per game in the KHL. And I've watched a lot of torpedoes here because it's so a lot because of TAR-Taminov. is on that team and you watch that team and a tennis off has stood out in a real sniffing

matter scoring him highlight a real gold he's a really good stater a little bit on the smallest I think it's 5-9 and 510 credits its NHL Central scatter that they hadn't rated as a B-rated player at one point in his draft season he went on drafted still maybe someone sort of listened to them because I think he looks like a really strong NHL prospect right now he's not a free agent he can't be drafted this summer he can't he's not a free agent in the number he'll be a free agent in the following summer even though he's not quite as big as Cusmanco made an inch of two shorter. Still very, very skilled, better skater.

I think this is going to be the kind of guy, like the next free agent that everyone's going to be on top of like the K of, like Kuzmanko. He's going to have a lot of interest. And again, how high he projects, I'd say more middle six wing right now. But, you know, if you get a free middle six wing, you'll take it on an entry level contract. And so I think, you know, like that, Porteo is winning a lot of games this year. And he's been a significant reason why. All right. Final question of the day.

John Burner wants to know what's with these inflated beef jerky prices. I think ideally, to answer this, we would have an economist. Instead, we have the next best thing. We have an Iowa. So, Chris, Peters, it comes to you. What is with these inflated beef jerky prices? I'm not an economist. I am not in Iowa by birth.

I do live there. A lot of cows. We're more of a pig. We're more of a hog, a hog state. There are more hogs than there are people. Iowa. Shout out to the hogs in Iowa. But I mean, here's the thing. You know, we, you got to, you love beef turkey, right? Who doesn't love beef turkey? I mean, you got to have it, right? There's a process involved in that. You got to dry that stuff out. I'm, I'm going to

give you a very technical explanation here. That's about as far as my beef jerky knowledge goes. But, you know, in terms of these inflated beef turkey prices, I got nothing. I have literally zero idea. So I hope that whoever asked this question directs it maybe to somebody that's familiar with commodities or perhaps, you know, just you can go to a farm maybe and ask this question. Ask a cow. Or, but I mean, a hockey podcast, I could understand why you would ask a hockey podcast. I could understand it.

And the best answer that you could have realistically helped before, to be honest. Yeah, that is going to do it for us. Thanks to listen to this episode of the Appletic Hockey Show. prospect series. Thanks again to Scott Wheeler for joining us earlier. You can catch more Chris over at flow hockey and on his podcast, talking hockey sense. And for the rest of us, you can follow us on YouTube at YouTube.com slash at The Athletic Hockey Show. Actually, that one's for all of us. For the rest of us, right now through the end of the year, you can give the one-year subscription to the athletic for 1999 or a two-year subscription for 3999 when you visit theathletic.com

slash hockey show. We'll talk to you soon.