The Athletic Hockey Show - Canadiens steal Game 7 from the Lightning

Episode Date: May 4, 2026

The Montreal Canadiens went 27 minutes without a shot on goal in last night’s Game 7, including the entire second period, but they still found a way to score twice to move on to the second round of the Stanley Cup playoffs, and send the Tampa Bay Lightning to their fourth consecutive first-round exit. The guys break it all down and discuss the 15-goal Game 1 between the Minnesota Wild and Colorado Avalanche, the Carolina Hurricanes blanking the Philadelphia Flyers in Game 1 of their series, and how the Mikko Rantanen trades have aged over time, as well as a lookahead to the Anaheim Ducks-Vegas Golden Knights series. Plus, The Athletic’s own Chris Johnston joins the show to talk about the Toronto Maple Leafs hiring Mats Sundin and John Chayka and the blunt comments from Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl from Edmonton Oilers locker cleanout.Hosts: Max Bultman, Mark Lazerus, and Jesse GrangerWith: Chris JohnstonExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hey, everybody, Max Bulman here alongside Mark Lazarus and Jesse Granger for another episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. What a weekend to hockey, guys. We were absolutely spoiled. Sunday was the peak of it. I mean, we get a phenomenal game seven between Montreal and Tampa, super tight the whole way. And that's where I want to start here. Las, how did Montreal pull this off? They finished with nine shots on goal. They get a win. fewest ever in a playoff win, and it's a big one. You know, it's hilarious.

Sometimes we spend all weekend of the show trying to come up with something to talk about on Monday. And we've got like six lead topics today with, you know, Toronto and Edmonton and the Wild Avalanche series. And now, you know, a game seven where a team has nine shots on goal and wins. And they're like bragging about it in the post-game locker. Like, imagine how different would be if they had lost that game. That would have been like a scarlet letter around the necks of this team forever. And it becomes a punchline because,

hockey is the stupidest sport in the world. I love it. They had no business winning that game whatsoever, and they go and they beat one of the most dominant teams of the era in a Game 7 on the road with one of the worst performances we've ever seen. I love this stupid sport. It went 27 minutes, Jesse, 27 minutes between shots on goal, let alone goals, shots on goal. The entire second period is within that span. Yeah, the entire HABs team wasn't terrible. There was one guy back there. of Dobish, who was pretty awesome, who stood on his head all series long. He's a rookie. He's facing

Andre Vasilevsky, the goalie of this generation. He probably watched him as a kid, even though Vasily's not that old, but Dobish is so young that he probably grew up watching Vasilevsky, and he outdules him in this series. He was so good. That is like the series of legends for a Montreal goalie, for a rookie to come in and do that. And he was spectacular yesterday, and he's a huge reason why they're able to get those lucky bounces. I mean, lucky, maybe not. It was the, the Suzuki tip is obviously goes off a Tampa defender and into the net. And then the second goal is batted from behind the net off Asselevski. And you only get the opportunity to get those lucky bounces to win the game if Yakub Dobish is as awesome as he was. Yeah, I mean, we talked about this with Team USA in Canada.

And John Cooper is the connective threat on those two games. He comes up on the wrong end of both of it. But the goalie is on the team. They're allowed to be the reason you win the game. It doesn't take away from it to me. Do I think Tampa deserve to win this game? Yes, I do. Tampa was the better team all night. That being said, Jacob Dobish was the best player on the ice. And this was a dead tight series that was liable to be stolen by a goalie. I think if you told me that was going to happen, I would have thought it would be Andre Vasselowski. But it's Jakubish. And that's that's that's Montreal, that they have that guy in their net, and they can do that, Las. Yeah, I mean, look, this was not a great series by the Canadians. It was certainly not a bad one. They were

They were really good on the power play. Five on five, they were kind of underwhelming. Stavkovsky, Caulfield, Suzuki were all badly outscored at five on five in this series. But they kind of came through every time they needed most adept guys. Guys like Kirby Doc and Zach Boldew coming through. And obviously Dobish, who, you know, I think he's third behind Anderson and Allmark and goals saved above expected. He won this series for the Canadians. I don't think the Canadians, you know, quote unquote, deserve to win this series just based on their overall team play.

but like you said, it only takes a goalie. And this was always going to be a toss-up coming in. And it was a toss-up, down to the last few minutes of the third period. We didn't know who was going to win this series. And that's the kind of first-round matchups you want. Did Tampa deserve to win the series? They had a lot of flat nights in this series. I don't think Tampa deserved the series anymore.

They've deserved last night, but they didn't deserve the bulk of the series anymore than Montreal did. I didn't think. I think that's fair. This is not a dominant performance by either team, which is why, you know, all of a sudden, you know, everyone was looking at Tampa. We always look at Tampa every year.

We're conditioned to look at Tampa as the team to beat in the East, despite their now chronic failures in the first round. But, you know, all of a sudden, I'm looking at Buffalo because I just see flaws. I see flaws with the Canadians. I saw flaws with the Lightning. And every team in the East is flowed. We talked about it all year that there were no great teams in the East, just pretty good ones.

And Carolina, we could debate until we're blue in the face. Until they do it in the playoffs, I can't call them great. So I look at Buffalo now as a team that might be the team to beat in this. in this conference, because as exciting as the Canadians are, as awesome as the environment is, as much as we want to see a Stanley Cup final at the Bell Center, my God, how awesome would that be. I'm not sure they've got the goods based on that series. We talked about how Tampa was flat. Maybe Montreal's top players didn't show up, but we have to talk about Nikita Kuturov without a single point in the series in seven games.

And maybe he's dealing with some kind of injury, but, I mean, he wasn't even getting changed. chances. Like, like, Gonzalves is going to have nightmares about Yakub Dobish. Not just last night. He robbed him several times last night, but I feel like throughout the series, more than half of Jacob Dobish's highlight real saves were on Gonzalves. He's never going to forget this. But none of them were on Nikita Kuturov. Like, it's not like he was all all around the net trying to score, to be honest with the only time I remember Nikita Kuturov interacting with Yacobbos is him jarring, jawing at him as he's going to the bench in two different games, trying to get under his skin and this rookie goalie is just completely owning Nikita Kuturav on the ice.

And he's just like doing whatever he can to, I don't know what he's saying, thinking he's getting under his skin. It's clearly not working Nikita. Maybe try getting shots on goal. It's wild how invisible Nikita Kuturav was in this series. And look, this is becoming an issue with the lightning. Their biggest stars are not coming through in the playoffs. Vasilevsky's been pretty bad the last four playoffs now.

I think he's got an 886 save percentage over the last four playoffs. He's seven and 16. Braden Point, I don't know if this is an aberration just due to injury or a trend. He's not the player he was. He just turned 30. Usually you don't fall off the cliff that early, but he doesn't look like Brayden Point anymore. You know, obviously not having Victor Headman was a huge deal for the Lightning team. If he's in this series, they probably win it.

But right now, is Darren Radish, the guy? Are they going to overpay him based on one fluke season, or is he really a 30-goal defenseman? Like, there's a lot of deep concerns for the Tampa Bay Lightning moving forward. It's been like every year we're like we get suckered in and then every year, you know, whether it's against Florida or Florida again or I think it was Toronto a few years ago, they're just not coming through and it matters most. This is consecutive years that Tampa was at least like a strong top two in the East team for our staff coming in and they go out in the first both times. Four straight years you mentioned it. I just don't know what you do. Like can you, you can't really make a major earthquake to this group because of everything that they've accomplished in the past because of

their ages. I don't think you're, you're massively remaking this. And yet, when you hit the same wall four years in a row, that is the impulse. Yeah, it's fascinating. Like you said, the roster construction, they're all, like, there isn't room to make a massive change. The other option is coach, you're not upgrading from John Cooper. Like, no. You could say, oh, they need a different voice or whatever. I don't believe in that. I think get the best coach, and they've got the best coach. So to me, there's no way to upgrade that. It's going to be interesting. And like Mark said,

Vasilevsky has struggled. His numbers are not good. And especially last year against Florida, I thought Vasi was a big reason they lost that series. This time, you can't put it on Vaselowski. Like, he was nails in this series. Maybe the stats because Montreal can't get enough shots for him to have a good save percentage.

But like, in game six, he was the only reason that there was game seven. And then last night, like, those two goals were fluky, weird bounces. every shot that was an actual shot that a goalie can read and predict. Vassi was just spot on. So they've got one of the best goalies in the world with all the history. Like, if you can't do it with him, you're not going to do it with anyone. It's tough to find a way for this team to improve. First of all, I want to haul you into kangaroo court for saying Vassi five times.

Vaselowski's long. That's long. But it's funny because, like, Tampa right now is Toronto, right? All those years of Toronto where it was all these great regular seasons, and then first round flameouts. The difference, of course, is they've won two Stanley Cups. So it's easy to say, oh, whatever. You know, they've already got their two Cups.

But, I mean, they're basically having the same run now that Toronto had all those years where they're just underperforming when it matters most. And I don't know how much leash you get with that. You're right. They're not going to find a better coach than John Cooper. You're not going to find a better player than Nikita Coutheroff. These guys are signed long term. It's a well-constructed team.

They dominate all regular season long. I don't know what you do about it. Like, you could write off two Florida ones along. losses in a row because a Florida plays a style of play that nobody else plays and they went on to win the championship both years. But the Toronto loss, this loss, it's, I don't know what this team is anymore. I will say this, Laz, like from what you were saying about Buffalo, maybe being the favorite. And I think you're asleep in a little bit on Montreal. I think this was a heavyweight series. And the reason that neither team looked all that dominant is because they were both

really, really good. And it was a little bit of a war of attrition. Like, I don't think Buffalo saw any, saw nearly the level of challenge that Montreal did in the first. round. And so if they made it look a little easier, to me, that makes sense. And that would be why. Like, I think Montreal is the favorite. I would probably take Montreal in six in this upcoming Montreal Buffalo series. It's fair. It's wide open. Like I said, these teams are all pretty good. Buffalo is not a great team yet. Montreal is not a great team yet. They're on their way, but they're not great teams. Carolina should be a great team. But like, it is really wide open in the east where you have the avalanche and then everybody else in the west. You don't have that in

the east right now. So it is wide open. There's Montreal absolutely could get to the Stanley Cup final in this setup. I just feel like they're not a, they are building things the right way. They have done everything. They are now the model franchise for a rebuild, but they're still, they're not at that last step yet. Like, I don't feel like they're done with that process yet. No. So if they win now, it's, it's ahead of schedule. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Do you want to get to, well, let's get to this Montreal Buffalo series. And I guess we can start with what Buffalo did to get here. They made it look pretty easy in that elimination game against Boston. Yeah, that's because the Bruins are Just to be completely honest, the Bruins have been terrible all year. The Bruins are not a good hockey team. They were carried to the playoffs by Jeremy Swayman single-handedly. He's the only reason that team's in the playoffs. And he was the only reason that any of these games were remotely competitive. I mean, I thought Buffalo was clearly the better team in every aspect of play in all six games. Jeremy Swayman had a couple where he was amazing and it was close, or Boston was. Boston was,

was able to pull out a close victory. But yeah, I mean, to me, that was a Buffalo team that clearly it has arrived. They are talented at all three levels, forward defense and their goalies played well, against a Boston team that was just completely overmatched and was relying on Jeremy Swamen to single-handedly steal it for him. And he did a couple times, and the rest of the times he wasn't able to. I really like this Buffalo team right now. Look at their third line.

Their third line is Josh Norris with Zach Benson and Josh Stone. That's like the kind of third line that wins you champions, right? When you got that kind of depth, that kind of an energy line like that. And I, you know, we've been talking, I was out west, so I was talking about especially Quinn Hughes and Kail McCar and Miro Haskinen. But I think Buffalo might have the best blue line in the league right now. I mean, you got Dahlene, who's every bit as good as most of those guys, Samuelson and Owen Power and Bo Byram, Kesselring on the third bearing.

Like, there's so much to like about this team. And their stars are playing like stars. Tage Thompson, Alex Tuck, you know, Byram, Dahlene, these guys are playing like stars right now. All their best players are coming through when it matters most. I like Lion and Goal. I think he's calm things down there. You've got to back up. You know, we see this a lot where you need to have two legitimate goalies. And, you know, Peca Luka Lukaanin is still absolutely a capable player.

I just like the way this team is built. I mean, they beat Boston with, what, one power play goal? And they did it handily. That's how good this team is at five on five. Well, what's interesting, as you mentioned that third line, I think the third line was actually even at its best when they had Noah O'Slin there, who's out. And so Norris is back in now. But I like that line even more when Ocelain was between Benson and Done.

So they got, not only that, they've got, you know, depth, too, to this. Like they can get way different combinations. They can do. Peyton Krebs had a monster series. Yeah. The Eichel returns, Krebs and Tuck have delivered for them in these playoffs. My question, though, is did they really have to check at nearly the level that Montreal did against Tampa? And is this going to be a huge wake-up call of a series for the,

Buffalo Sabres. When Montreal comes in off of that and Buffalo's coming in off of how they came in. I think that's going to be a little bit of a shock to them. They got the horses, but I think there's a step up. It's absolutely a step up in competition, no question. It kind of reminds me of what I wondered about Colorado, because they just smoke showed the LA Kings and like they hadn't played a competitive game in weeks. And then you got Minnesota who's coming off of a battle with Dallas. And I thought maybe, I was like thinking maybe game one, Minnesota will kind of come out there and shock them. Like they're just, Colorado wouldn't be quite up to speed. And that obviously wasn't the case.

So it's going to be interesting to see like, to me, a very similar situation in the East. Well, we're going to talk about that one a little bit later in the show. For now, let's take a quick break. We're going to come back. And we're going to talk about the Big Toronto Maple Leaf's front office hires with Chris Johnston. All right, we are back. And as good as those games last night were, we had an additional piece of huge NHL information come across. Chris Johnson joining us now, our NHL insider at The Athletic.

He is minutes away from heading down to the Toronto Maple Leafs press conference for the introduction of new general manager, John Cheka and executive hockey advisor. Do I have that title right, Matt Sundin? Yeah, something along that. A lot of words, not a lot of clarity exactly what it means yet. What do you think this signals? I mean, it's obviously been kind of a hot button as this has kind of leaked out in the recent days. A lot of opinions about John Chaka and Matt Sundin and that combination. What do you think that signals about what?

but the Toronto Maple Leafs kind of view as their short and medium-term direction here. Definitely from an ownership level and from senior leadership level, the Leafs want to be in the playoffs next year. And I think it's going to be a gargantuan task for anyone to take on. But in this case, John Chaka, as the main hockey decision maker, has been tasked with what I think is almost a near impossible mission. The Leafs finished 28th overall in the standings. Their coverings are bare.

obviously the product of 10 years of all-in kind of maneuvering at the trade deadline. This is not a particularly strong free agent class. You know, there's not a clear window for them to return to being an upper echelon team in the league coming off the season they just had. And yet that's the mandate that's being given to this new front office. So, you know, I think that they're in a really difficult spot right off the get-go. You know, more than likely, I would say John Chacon is going to oversee perhaps the departure of someone like Austin Matthews in the coming years with just two years left on his contract.

And so this was a tough spot to be dropped into, but Chaka waited six years almost to get back as a GM and I guess you take the jobs you're offered. We see this all the time in hockey where guys, you know, fail their first time around in a head coaching job or as a GM and then they get that second chance and they succeed. John Chagin is a little different. He failed pretty spectacularly in Arizona. It was a disaster. Yes, ownership is an everything that happens in Arizona deserves an Asterisk. But what did he accomplish? What did he do? And what does he done in the meantime that has led the Maple Leafs to think that he's the guy to do this job?

A million dollar question, Laz. And I can't really put myself in the shoes of Keith Pelly and tell you what they saw as, you know, separating him from the other potential options they had. You know, I think if we're going to be charitable to John Chaka, he was 26 when he became the GM in Arizona. He's now almost 37 in Toronto. So that's a pretty key 10 years of learning. and experience gathering in anyone's career, I would say. And, you know, the fact that he has a data background, you know, founded the company's athletes, family business that's still going and still providing analytical information to NHL teams.

You know, I could see where he's the sort of thinker that they were looking for, maybe someone still a bit younger. But, you know, the fact that he hasn't worked in the league and there's been 25 GMs hired since he last, you know, since he resigned in Arizona in July 2020, that kind of tells you that this wasn't a guy in demand. This isn't necessarily what you would expect a team like the Maple Leafs to have, you know, a lot of resources that other organizations in the NHL don't have to go and chase the best talent, especially in the non-cap related things, you know, like off-ice personnel. And so, you know, this is that I'll tell you the reaction I've gotten in my conversations

around the league the last week is a lot of people are stunned and surprised that John Chaker was the guy that the Leafs chose out of all, you know, after this process. And so I'm with you. I'm willing to sit here and say, for sure, I can see him having another successful act, a more productive time in the GM's chair after the way things went in Arizona. But it's a big Hail Mary right now for the Leafs. And this is an organization in theory that shouldn't have to be, you know, tossing a 60-yard pass into the end zone and hoping. Chris, as you mentioned, he's kind of the numbers guy. He was the youngest GM ever. He's not really a hockey guy. And then they they kind of announced this pairing with Sundin, who is as much a hockey guy,

anyone like what do you see his role being and how good of a match do you think those two are kind of tag teaming this well from the PR standpoint hiring matt sundeen is good business if you're the maple Leafs um you know probably the most successful run in my lifetime for the leaps teams were the ones where Matt's was the captain of the team and the leading score every year um you know un unimpeachable character someone who's always profess nothing but undying love for the city and the organization i think it makes sense to want him involved You know, what is going to be tough for Matt Sundeen is he's getting thrown in at this very perilous time for the Leaps. And they're taking a lot of heat in the marketplace right now.

And as I sort of sketched out there, I think that they are unlike, like, I don't think it's very likely they're going to be a playoff team next year. And so what are the ramifications of that? He's sort of joining at a, you know, a spot in the stream where things are not good. And I think they're hoping that, you know, he's able to maybe absorb some of that heat, maybe. directed in a more positive manner for the organization. And, you know, he hasn't worked in the NHL in at least an official capacity since he retired. And that was all the way back in 2009. So, you know, he's not experienced as, you know, someone making these decisions. Again, I like the idea of having him involved in the front office, but I think we have to be realistic about

what his immediate impact can be, you know, what he can bring to the table. How well does he even know players around the league? Like, I think these are all fair questions. I think he's a smart enough guy to figure it out and become useful over time. But, you know, this isn't the kind of job where either he or Jake are able to just sort of ease their way in. They're being thrown into the fire directly. It seems to me like they're trying to recreate the Brendan Shanahan, Kyle Dubus dynamic, where you have like the veteran hockey guy and the young analytics mind. So for those of us who weren't like intimately involved with how the Leafs were run day today, how was the delineation of power in that, and with that duo, it seems right now that all reporting is that

Cheek is going to be the top guy here. He's the, you know, for lack of a better word, the president of hockey operations. So how did that dynamic work with Shanahan and how do you expect it to work here? Yeah, that's the key delineation, I would say, Las, you know, with the Shanahan-dubis pairing, Shanahan was unquestion at the top of the hockey operations pyramid. You know, he primarily or exclusively dealt with ownership and the board. You know, Kyle ran the day-to-day, you know, decision-making with the team. But any major decisions, obviously, had to be approved by Shanahan as well.

And so, you know, I think that that was ultimately what led to their breakup in 2023 is, you know, at that point, Dubus wanted more power. He wanted more autonomy in decision making and he didn't have it. Ultimately, he gets fired in a bit of a power play and lands in Pittsburgh with the dual role of president and ultimately general manager. So he has that kind of power in Pittsburgh. And that's what led to the divorce. You know, what's happening here is Sundin is going to work in the hockey ops department. The idea is that I think he's going to service a number of, you know, tent polls. within that, you know, from player development to culture setting and assisting with decisions,

but he's not, the buck doesn't stop with him. It's John Chaker that's reporting upwards to senior management. And so it's, it is a different setup, but you're right. If you're going to, in generalities, sketch out, it's kind of a recreation of that, but I don't think it's nearly the same thing. I mean, at the time when Kyle Dubas came along, he was sort of a wiz kid, you know, he'd spent a number of years inside the organization and climbed his way up to the spot of GM. You know, Shanahan worked in the head office of the NHL for years before coming to Toronto, had a lot of, I think, valuable business experience in addition to his playing career. You know, the Leafs don't have that in this go-round.

I mean, both these guys have been out of the league a long time, relatively speaking, because so much changes year-to-year in the NHL, players turnover, prospects coming in, all that stuff. And so, you know, this is, it'll be interesting, I think, to see who they bring in beyond these two, these are the only two hires right now. But clearly they have a front office structure to fill out still because I think they're going to need more experience in that in that room so you talked about the surprise around the league to the hire i'm curious like what is john chaka's reputation among other like hockey ops executives

because at the end there were some kind of high profile foibles there's obviously the prospect testing one i'm not mistaken i think he he was in talks or interviewing for for another with another organization toward the end they're like what is the fallout of that you know six seven years later here now and should the maple leaves care about his reputation with other hockey ops execs I think they should care because, you know, ultimately has to do business. You know, the NHL to me is a small town. And so part of living in a small town sometimes, I grew up in one is, you know, you've got to be able to do business with your neighbor even when things are uncomfortable, right?

Even though obviously each team is competing in this league, the GMs have to make trades with each other. They have to try and suit each other's needs. I mean, I recognize it's not an easy line to crawl. And by no means am I suggesting every single person in the league likes every other single other person. But for John Chaker, I do think there's some trust to be rebuilt there. There's certainly trust to be rebuilt with the NHL's front office. I know there's definitely some bad feelings left over from the fact. Not only that he ended up talking to New Jersey Devils while under contract to the Arizona Coyotes,

which led to him being suspended for conduct on becoming to the league. But secondarily, you know, he was involved in prospect testing that was outside of the bounds of what's clearly allowed in the CBA. And, you know, I don't think the NHL felt very kindly, but the way that whole thing went down. And so, you know, ultimately he's going to have to, I think, prove himself anew, rebuild some trust within some key spots of the league. And, you know, again, he's under pretty strict timelines here. Like, he has to start making moves in the next two months. This cannot be an offseason where the Leafs sort of just stand pad and, you know,

sign a fourth line right winger and call it a day. You know, I think that they have a lot of work to be done on their roster. And the only way to get that work done is to basically deal with everybody else. And right now, I don't know what the appetite is out there to deal with them. We're just going to have to see. It's really just an incredible hire, isn't it? I mean, this is such an urgent time for the Maple Leafs. We're entering this new phase where free agency is basically dead and things are going to have to be done through trades.

These dire situations, Matthews situation, and they just throw a guy with so little experience. He's been in the private sector for years now. It's just an incredibly ballsy, perhaps insane move by the Maple Leafs. It's such a fascinating development. Yeah, I have to imagine it might be crazy enough that it works. It must be sort of some of the rationale in Keith Pelly's mind. I mean, look, on some level I can applaud the fact they didn't just go find the biggest name who already has certain accolades that might, you know, on a day like this where you're introducing that candidate, no one's going to ask questions, but maybe it doesn't still have the fire or maybe, you know, the game is passed them by in some ways. Like I do appreciate that they're trying to find the next great GM versus, you know, getting someone to.

was past his prime and just got to cash a few checks before retirement. But, you know, it's a pretty insane gambit. It really is. I mean, it's basically a month ago that this started out, the least fired Bradshaw living at the end of March. He's probably had a press comment to next day and sort of sketched out, you know, wanting this data-centric person, wanting to have more synergy or continuity through the front office the way everybody works

together. But if you had told me then that John Chaco was going to be the guy that they hired, I never would have believed it just because his name really. has been outside of hockey circles during this time where he's been away from the NHL. I haven't heard him rumored for other jobs. It doesn't seem as though he was truly in the mix. And yet, you know, he's got ties to Ty Domi, who's still got an influence clearly here in Toronto. You know, as does Matt Sundin, they're best friends. By no means of my suggesting Ty Domi made the hire, but I don't think it hurt that he has a pass

with both Cheka and Sundin and has the era of Leif's ownership. And so, you know, it's, I mean, truth is stranger than fiction. Is it kind of where I'm landing on this? Like, I just would not have guessed this is where they'd end up. And, you know, I do want to, you know, I've been a little critical here. I want to allow them the chance to make moves before, you know, I'm being too critical because ultimately it doesn't really matter what I think or what the reputation is. It matters what they do with the roster. But I just think that they're being thrown into a really tough spot. And, you know, there's not a lot of time to figure it out. That's the key to me. If it's a year from now and we're talking at least just starting a full rebuild. I mean, I'd argue they

should probably be looking at that right now, but that's just not the way they're focused. Yeah. Before we let you go, CJ, I did want to get your thoughts on some of the comments out of Edmonton and their locker clean out. I think that these were honest comments from Connor McDavid and Leon Drysidal, you know, McDavid saying they've taken a step back, dry saddle saying, you know, not trend in the right direction. I think we would all agree with that. But what do you, what did you make of that hearing them say that publicly? Did that read as a challenge to the organization? Are they just shooting it straight? They're definitely shooting it straight. And I have to say, one of the things I appreciate most about the Oilers and their top players is that

those guys make no excuses. And, you know, they also discussed some of the injury challenges they were dealing with, but there was never an excuse put forward there about why this year was off. They just talked about it like it is. And I think everyone in Ebenson knows that next year is the only really guaranteed year that they're going to have both of these guys back. I know McDavid does have two more years under contract. But the way it sets up is, you know, at this time next season, there's got to be a decision made. He's either signing an extension or the organization is looking to trade him because I just don't see them walking him into a year where, you know, he could be a free agent. I don't think that would be very comfortable for anyone. And, you know, it's been a long time now, too.

And frankly, they are headed in the wrong direction. That's, you know, part of what both Leon Dricidal and Connor McDavid said is that, you know, they look at 2024 when they get to game seven of the Cup final lose two one. They only got to six games into the final against Florida in 2025. They're out after just two wins in the first round in 2026. And there's, I think, reason for real concern as their core gets a little bit older with each successive year, they don't have a lot coming in their own pipeline that, that basically that, you know, the time might be up on them.

And so if you're Stan Bowman or Jeff Jackson who run that Oilers team, the only thing you have guaranteed is that next season, you know, these guys are going to be members of your team two of the best players in the world. And I think you have to react accordingly. So I would say nothing should be off the table in Edmonton this summer in terms of anything that can improve the team because, you know, it was a disappointing year from top to bottom for the Oilers. It sure felt like a direct challenge to me. I mean, the way McDavid phrased it, he says, we've all got to be better. And then he paused and then said, you know, starting with me. He was great this year. He's possibly the MVP this year. It doesn't start with him. It starts with Stan Bowman and, you know,

Tristan Jari and Trent Frederick were his answers last time. And I think that's pretty clear that Dry Sidel and McDavid are saying that wasn't good enough. You have to be a little more dramatic here, a little more drastic. And the clock is ticking. I don't think there's any GM under more pressure now in the NHL than Stan Bowman. And that includes John Chaka. Yeah. And it's a lot of the same dynamics.

The difference is Edmontons, you know, they've got a better team. Edmonton's closer at least. You know, they've made the playoffs. They have McDavid six-time scoring champion, you know, was the leading point getter again. season. But, you know, they face the same challenges. When you're trading first round picks, every trade deadline, eventually, you know, there's a cost to that, right? And, you know, we're seeing a lot of the younger teams in the league jump up, you know, Montreal moving on to round two, the latest example. You know, we're seeing turnover in the league. And some of those

organizations are trying to hang on and still be competitive. And it's a tough thing to do. I think as long as you have McDavid and Drysidal and look, you got Anaheim and the Pacific Division on the rise, but I think the Pacific Division is still pretty cozy place to be. I'm not going to say the oilers can't do it, but it's got to happen right now. And you're right, huge summer lads. You know, this is actually, you know, Carda McDavid-Sign his extension gave them essentially that massive discount by not having a raise. You know, this is where they get the benefit of that.

It kicks in starting next season. There's already the cap jumping up. So there's room to maneuver there. But we pre-agent class, I mean, it's probably going to have to come through trade if they make a sizable addition to that roster. Yeah. Story of the NHL this offseason as well on that note. All right.

Great stuff from Chris Johnson. We've got to let him get to this press conference. Thanks so much for joining us, CJ. We'll take a quick break. All right, we are back. And Jesse, at the end of segment one, you kind of got us into Colorado, Minnesota. This could not have been a more different viewing experience than what we saw from Montreal, Tampa. This tight 2-1 game where Montreal finds away with only nine shots.

This was the opposite of that. Colorado jumps out to an early 3-0 lead on the wild. Minnesota fights back. They lead at 5-4. and they lose it 9-6, 14 different goal scorers in this game. If you didn't score, if you played in this game and you didn't score, did you even play is basically what it felt like watching. Holy smokes, how do you sum that up, Jesse?

Yeah, for Colorado sports fans, this is what they've been used to seeing. I'm a Denver Broncos fan. 9-6 is pretty much the regular score line for us. And so they're very comfortable with 9-6 games. It's just usually not that team in town. What an insane game. The goaltenders obviously didn't have their. their best night. It just looked like the game was too fast for them. And it's hard to blame them

because the game was insanely fast. Like Quinn Hughes versus Kail McCar and the way they're quarterbacking everything at the point and the way they're challenging guys, like they were not passing the puck around. They were going around guys, attacking into the high slot. It just gets the defense scrambling. And such a fast game by both teams, that is going to be an elite series. I don't think most of the games will look like that, but score-wise, but speed-wise, like, I think we're in for a treat. These two teams are so good. Yeah, these are not your big brothers, Minnesota Wild, the most boring team in the world.

This is high-octane star power team. I have deep concerns about the Wilde that Joel Erick's neck injury is massive. Massive. They were already so weak down the middle and you take away their best two-way center against a team like Colorado. He's going to miss game two. They need him back by game three or this might get out of hand. but I almost think, and this is going to sound weird when you lose to 9 to 6,

I think that was almost like an encouraging game if you're the Minnesota Wild. That you know you can go toe to toe with this team, and you can score at the same pace they can score. Obviously, you do not want every game to look like that. But the Wild haven't, you know, we know they've got it in them, that they've got the players to do that, but the fact that they fell down 3-0 early and just stormed right back and took the lead, I think even though they lost that game,

that's not a discouraging game for me. I'm not worried about Jesper Wall said he was phenomenal in the first, round against Dallas. He's the biggest reason they won. He's going to get right back in there in game too. And, you know, if he settles down, then everything will be fine. But I think there's a lot to take away from that game that's encouraging if you're the wild, knowing, you know what, that team can score a lot of goals. But hey, so can we. And if that's the way they want to play, we can play that way. But you said it with Eric Seneck. I mean, that was my thought the whole game last night is this game looks totally different if Eric Seneck is in.

It's probably eight to six with him. No, I think it's probably like, I mean, it's probably like five to four, six to five. I mean, I think he's that big of a factor in the game. And you take that piece out of their lineup. He's their best center. He's such a two-way presence. I think he gives their own lineups, like just so many elements around the net. And, man, that was, to be without him for game one, hurt. Now you know you're without him again for game two. You could be down two O in a hurry here. Yonis Brodine, too. So, I mean, obviously, that's two of their better defenders that are out. Yeah, it makes it even worse because Colorado centers are just so. disgustingly good. Like obviously McKinnon and Nelson, but like adding Nick Watt, the deadline has been a fantastic edition. They're up the middle there as good as it gets. And then

Minnesota, that's like their biggest weakness. And now it's even more of a weakness. On Mark's point about Walsett, I'll give John Hines credit because we've talked about it a couple times this playoffs on this show about how like coaches have to manage the two goalie setup. And Walsett was one of the biggest reasons they won in the round one. I think when it was three nothing early, that's an easy spot for a coach to pull a goalie. And then you put Philip Gustafson in there, who was the starter all year and say he plays a little bit better, but you still lose. Well, now everybody's wondering who's the guy going in. And it's like, it can change the entire dynamic. I thought that even though he gets lit up for eight goals, he'll shake that

off. Knowing his mentality, I don't think that's going to mess with him at all. I think that Heinz did a good job of not allowing this to become a discussion by just letting Yesper play that out. and I agree. I think he's going to bounce back. He was not good in that game. He was not his, I always praise him for his patience. To me, that's his biggest trait.

He looked like he was guessing a lot. And that's just, this feels too fast for me. I'm trying to guess what's happening. He guessed wrong a few times and looks bad. But I thought Heinz handled it well. And I think going forward, big picture,

even though he gives up eight goals, that was the right move to keep him in there. I agree. You got to stand by your guy and say, this is still your net. One loss isn't going to change that. And Philip Guston, let's not forget, was atrocious down the stretch.

He lost the net. Walsett didn't even take the net. Gus Huston lost it. And I didn't love his attitude. You know, covering that Dallas-Min-Nnesota series, at one point Mike Russo walks up to him. I was right next to him after a practice and says, hey, Gus, you got a second.

And Gus Huston looks at him and goes, go talk to the players that are playing. That's not the attitude of a guy who's feeling great right now. You know, you're supposed to say, hey, I just want to support my guy. I'm real happy for Jesper. He's playing great. You know, as long as we're winning, you know, it's about the team.

He said, go talk to the guys who are playing. That's a guy who's sulking right now. And I don't think he's the guy you want to throw in, given how badly he was playing and how lousy, his attitude seems to me, that's not a guy you want to throw in against the avalanche right now. We talked about the wild being without Erickson Act. The Colorado Avalanche for a while there looked like they might be without Kail Makar.

He comes back to the game, scores two huge goals for the avalanche. It was as a scare for Colorado to have been without McCar for a little bit there, but no, nothing you could have seen would have been more reassuring than him coming back in and playing like that. What I love, I love that these guys, like, it is very clear that Cal McCar knows he's going up against Quinn Hughes, and Quinn Hughes knows he's going up as Cal McCar, and they want to be the best guy. This happened at a much, much different level earlier in the year here in Chicago when the Islanders came to town. I talked to Ardum Leveshanov, who had his best game of the year by far against the Islanders. The next day I asked him, how much of that was Matthew Schaefer's here, and you're getting, you're almost jealous of the attention he's getting.

You want to show that you're that guy, too. He goes, oh, absolutely. Like, he didn't even hesitate to say it. These guys absolutely know they're the two best defensemen in the world, and they want to be the best defenseman in the world. They know that this is a series where they can really earn that title and they care. It is electric. The way, like, the puck goes to one end.

And because they're defensemen, the puck's on their stick the whole time. Like, it is awesome to watch. The second goal, Kail McCar scored. The way he's, you can see, like, they showed the angle from behind him, and you can see him waiting for the lane to open. He, like, fakes the shot to create the lane. And then he's just waiting, waiting, waiting, and then finds that far side corner, Wall State couldn't see it through the traffic.

Those two are unbelievable. It really does feel like a one-off. It's almost like, like, you get that in basketball, kind of, where it's like one star versus the other. It feels as much like that as you can get in hockey. All right. So this one was 15 goals. I'll set the over under for the next two games combined at 14 and a half. What are you taking?

Combined? Combined. So you're talking like a pair of three, two wins is what you're, it would be the under right now. No, because it's 14 and a half. That's only 10. Yeah, Jesus. So I'll go over still. Yeah.

I think it's going to be a high scoring series. I don't think it's going to be like this game, but I do think we're going to see some high scoring. I'm going to go on because I think you're going to see these guys adjust dramatically. Because look, we love this. Coaches don't love this. This is not the kind of hockey they want to play. Jared Bedner doesn't want to play like this and John Hines does not want to play like this. I think we're going to see a rather dramatic reversal in the styles of playing games two and three.

So I'll take the under it. All right. Okay, so that's game one of that series. The other game one that we got this weekend was Saturday night. It was Carolina Philly, and I think predictably Carolina rolled here. And so this is kind of the interesting thing about the weekend, Laz. And this is maybe true to an extent with the wild, certainly true with the Canadians, certainly true with the Sabres. We get some of the new blood out of the first round.

It's really exciting. It's fun to see these new teams that haven't been in the playoffs or haven't advanced in the playoffs, start to take their strides. But, man, after the first weekend of round two, you can definitely see a way. world where we're just headed for Colorado, Carolina anyway. Yeah, it's pretty funny. And everybody wants to see the new blood. We talk about that all year. Like, oh, I just want to see some new teams.

We're sick of the Panthers and the Lightning and the Avalanche and the Golden Knights. And then you get those matchups. They're like, oh, I don't want to watch this. Where are the big teams? I want to watch the big teams. Where are the superstars, right? I mean, Colorado, Carolina would be an amazing series.

Like, it would be, it's two of the, it's the two best teams in the league, according to the standings, the two top seeds. It'd be great. I don't know if anybody would watch it in America because, you know, we're simple like that in this country, apparently. But it would be a great series. But yeah, I want to see Buffalo in there. I want to see Anaheim. Like, I want to see Minnesota.

I love watching Colorado play, but it's more interesting to me to see something different. Like an Anaheim Buffalo series? Are you kidding me? Just right into my veins, man. Give me that. I think they'd both be, I guess I'm not the demographic that they need to pull in to get Carolina, Colorado. Yeah, I'm pretty sure we're watching. regardless. Right. But yeah, I mean, Carolina, they look, they've looked great at times throughout

the postseason for years now, but I don't know if they've ever looked this good. With Logan Stankovins scoring the way he is, that's always the issue for this team, is the scoring. Where are we going to get it in the playoffs? Where are we going to get the tips? Because we're not getting the, the tick-tack toe goals that you get in the regular season. Things tighten up in the playoffs. You've got to score those greasy goals. Where are the hurricanes going to get that? and so far the answer has been Logan Stakeover, and he's been awesome. They still have the insane shot suppression that they've always had. Philadelphia feels like, like, I don't, like Freddie Anderson, that's his second shot

out of the playoffs. I don't think there's an NHL caliber goalie who wouldn't have had a shutout that night because it feels, I don't, like, it's helpless. Like it doesn't feel like the Flyers will ever score a goal. Like it feels like they could play for a week and they won't score. Now, they'll make some adjustments. The game will probably look a little bit different. in game two. But the way that game was going, it felt like there was no way they were going to

score a goal. You know who won't make any adjustments? Rod Brindamore. Because Rod Brindamore doesn't do adjustments. He will do what Rod Brindamore does, and that will annihilate this Flyers team. The question is, what will it do against Buffalo or Montreal or Colorado or Minnesota or Anaheim or Vegas? That's where I really want to see what happens because this Flyers team is completely overmatched. They have zero chance to win the series. Absolutely zero chance to win the series. And Carolina is going to have possibly only eight games played by the time they get to the conference final. They will be rested and healthy. And this is the best chance they've ever had to go and win a Stanley Cup that they've been on the customer of for years.

But can they do it in the conference final against a good team? Can they do it in the Stanley Cup final against a great team? That's what I'm still unsure about. Jesse, you mentioned Stancovin, and he's been outstanding. In fact, with Brandon Hagle out now for the Lightning, Stankovan is probably the leader in the clubhouse for best player in the playoff or, you know, eventually if Carolina gets there, the Khan-Smith. It's interesting, Laz, because we're talking about Colorado being a wagon.

We're talking about Carolina being a wagon. These are the two teams that traded away Miko Ranton. And a year later, I mean, Dallas had a phenomenal run last year to the conference final. Miko Rantin was excellent starting about midway through that series against Colorado. And he was very good. And Mika Rent had a very good year. He still put up his points in the playoffs. but we're looking at it a year later,

and the two teams that traded him away looked like they're the ones that could be on a collision course. It's funny how that works, right? I mean, when the Dallas Stars got eliminated, and I wrote a column, like the day before they got eliminated, that Miko was not holding up his end of the bargain. He wasn't playing well enough.

He was just kind of like getting secondary assists on power play goals and was a complete non-factor at five-on-five. All the avalanche fans started coming on being like, yeah, we know we've seen this before, unless he's playing us, because he hates us for trading him away in the first place, he's invisible in the playoffs. So all of a sudden, like Dallas fans who got clearly the best player,

like there's no question that Miko Ranton was the best player out of all these trades. They got him and they signed him long term. So Dallas is relatively happy. Marty Naches was a hundred point guy this year. So Colorado is perfectly happy. They replaced a hundred point guy with a hundred point guy who was a little younger. And Stankov, man, has there ever been a better fit, a better team that fit a player better than Logan Stankov? there are Carolina guys and there are non-Carolina guys.

Miko Rantan, not a Carolina guy. Logan Stankovin is like the ultimate Carolina guy. So everyone, I think everyone's pretty happy with this trade right now, but it is interesting that Dallas fans have the most consternation a year later. Yeah, and you nailed it in terms of just the styles. Like, it just feels like Chris McFarlane in Colorado, Martin Aitchis is perfect for the way the Avs play hockey. Like, he was good in Carolina.

He did not look like he does in Colorado. No. Because he wasn't in that fast environment playing with that style of hockey. And then you, like you already said, Stankovin is a Carolina guy. I thought both GMs just completely, you're, you're not going to trade for a player better than Ranton. And so find someone who fits your team better and they both nailed it. I still think Colorado should have found a way to get this done with Rantan. And I don't think Colorado needed change there. It's funny because right now, the player that I think Dallas could really use is NACIS because they look pretty slow in that first round. is against Minnesota. NACIS has the wheels. But I'm fully with you, Jesse. I did not see this coming out of NACIS, even knowing what kind of environment he was going into with Colorado. It is probably the perfect environment for him. But he was not close to this player, at least in terms of the offensive output, potency, consistency that he was, that he has been in Colorado. It's been really amazing to watch. All right, let's shift gears now to the series coming up, Jesse, game one tonight, Vegas and Anaheim. You'll be there. What do you expect?

in this way, I mean, Vegas finds a way at the end of that series to really look like kind of of big brother at the end of that. And Anaheim could be a pretty similar, similarly built team to Utah. You expect somewhat similar styles of play, but they're also maybe a little higher end at a couple of those spots. Yeah, exactly that. I've been talking to Vegas players the last couple days, and that's kind of the thing you keep hearing is Anaheim is almost exactly the same team as Utah. They're just a little better everywhere. It's a, it's a team that. that was built through the draft with young players. They are fast.

They want to score in transition. They pass the puck horizontally across the ice more than any team in the league. Utah, I think, was number two. I think Anaheim's right up there with them. They might just have a little more skill. Like Utah, early in the series, Logan Cooley and Dylan Gunther, the young kids, they had really big games in the first two games. And it was like, oh, is this their arrival in the Stanley Cup playoffs?

And Vegas pretty much shut them down for the rest of the way after that. Now it's a similar kind of story for Leo Carlson, Cutter Gautier, Ben, Seneke. I think they're obviously a different tier than Cooley and Gunther were. It's going to be tougher for Vegas, but it is a very similar challenge in that. Can we clog up the neutral zone, slow those guys down, make them go 200 feet to try to score through all five of our defensemen? Utah ultimately wasn't able to do that. Will Anaheim be able to? it's going to be fascinating. I think it's, like I said, really similar matchup. I didn't,

I wasn't all that impressed with the Golden Knights in the first round. They struggled through that Utah series. They haven't looked as good as they can now. Mitch Marner came alive at the end of the series. Jack Eichael started to look a little bit more like himself. So they are showing signs that they're getting there, but they're going to have to be better against Anaheim than they were against Utah to get through this. I like Anaheim in this year. I just, their offensive depth is incredible. I mean, you talk about again, we're just, talking about third lines earlier with Buffalo. I think Cutter-Gotier and Mason McTavish are on that third line.

That is scary. And Vegas's biggest weakness is goaltending. I do not trust Vegas's goaltending at all. And Vegas was bad, like legitimately bad for significant stretches of this regular season. I know that they've kind of stabilized. I can't believe I'm saying this, but you've got to give John Tortorella credit. He's done good work and kind of stabilizing things over there. But the wave after wave of talent that Anaheim has, like you said, like Utah but better,

I just, I think Anaheim is really coming into its own. And, you know, one thing Joel Quentville's really, really good at is adjusting in playoff series. He's like, I think it was 18 and 1 in games 5, 6, and 7 with the Blackhawks. These ducks are not those Blackhawks, certainly not yet. But this is a coaching matchup that heavily, heavily favors the Anaheim ducks. And I think they're going to come out of this one. On paper, goaltending should heavily heavily favor the ducks, too.

Dostal did not have an overwhelmingly, uh, convincing first round, though, Jesse. Yeah, and it's, like I was saying during that series, you almost have to grade him and, and the Oilers goalies on like a Grant Fier scale of like, just make the save we need you to make. Like, Grant Fier's stats are terrible, but he won a bunch of Stanley Cups because he made the save he needed to make. He might not have made the three before that, but the big one before, the big one he needed to make. And Dostall did that.

Like, he, he stuffed Connor McDavid with the toe save in game six, huge saves. This is going to be a very different series for him. It's going to feel like it's in slow motion compared to the. that Edminton Oilers attack, the Golden Knights are a more methodical cycle the puck around type of team. Dostal has a ton of success against Vegas. Obviously, I cover all those games, so I am used to seeing him. And he always seems to have his best stuff against the Golden Knights. I think he's got a 9-17 safe percentage in his career in five games against him. This year, he went two and O against Vegas. The Ducks won all three meetings this year between these two. Now, two of them were in

overtime, and the other one was a four-three wins. So they were all really, really close. But the Ducks did get the better of the Golden Knights. And like Mark said, Carter Hart, it was a rough series. And I was very surprised we didn't see Aden Hill at any point. Part of that is John Tortorella trusts Carter Hart from his Philly days. And he's just kind of, he's going to ride him until there is, like, he's going down with that ship if Carter Hart doesn't improve. He was giving up goals. Like Carter Hart did have moments where he made big saves, kind of like do stalled. But he also, there were so many shots that were wrist shots that were he saw cleanly, that were from outside the dots that most NHO goalies are going to make those saves, and they were beating

him glove side and blocker side. I have to imagine the Dux shooters, the snipers they've got, have seen that film and are salivating at that. It's going to be, if Vegas is going to win this series, they're going to need Hart to maybe not outplay Dostal, but at least match him and make it close because if Dostall's significantly outplaying him, the Golden Knights are not going to overwhelmingly win the possession battle enough to overcome that. Jesse, I love how right or die you are for Lucas Tostal. That guy could have like a 400 save percentage, and you would be sitting here saying,

that guy's awesome. He's the best, I love him. He, it's, it's, you always hear players and coaches say like process over results. And like when I watch Luca, it's part, that's part of it. It's like he does everything so right. Like I, he could give up A and I'm like, yeah, but I don't think any of them were his fault because he did everything he was supposed to do.

And he does give up A sometimes. That, that Ducks team is a high event. I will say, like, it kind of feels like everything's gravy from here for Anaheim. Like, they've won a round. I think that that's a successful season for them. Anything that happens on here is just a bonus. It does feel like if they win this series and if Leo Carlson is really good in this series, having taken out the Oilers with McDavid and the Golden Knights with Eichael,

this could be kind of Leo Carlson's opportunity to put himself in that very upper tier of NHL centers for the broader public, I think. And Jackson-Locom, too, on the back end, he's been having the same kind of run. I think it's very like, I think there's a lot of like nerves from the Vegas fan base and like excitement for this series because it does feel like the ducks are trying to prove that like there's a turnover in the Pacific Division and beating Edmonton and Vegas would and with their age would signal that maybe there's a different chapter of this division than we've seen for the last nine years. So for that reason alone, I feel like this Vegas team, they're going to want to impose their will and like prove that we're not quite there yet. Yeah. And they have the capability to do it. I mean, it will be to continue the theme of this segment, it will be very funny if at the end of all this, three of the final four teams standing are Colorado, Carolina, and Vegas.

Three of the four teams we all would have picked to be in that final four at the beginning of the year. But that story is yet to be written, really fun round two on tap, and we will be with you for all of it. In the meantime, I'll be back with Corey Promin and Scott Wheeler as well as Flohockeys, Chris Peters, tomorrow night, Tuesday for the NHL Draft Lottery. We're going to be reacting live to it on YouTube. you can join us there at YouTube.com slash at the athletic hockey show. Sean, Sean and Frankie will have you covered for Wednesday, but that's going to do it for us today. We'll talk to you soon.