The Athletic Hockey Show - Carolina Hurricanes Don Waddell on acquiring Jesperi Kotkaniemi. Projecting Team USA at the 2022 Winter Olympics

Episode Date: September 7, 2021

Craig and Sean return with a new edition of the Athletic Hockey Show USA. The guys welcome Carolina Hurricanes General Manager Don Waddell who takes us through the offer-sheet process, how much better the Canes are now with Jesperi Kotkaniemi and Carolina's 'boss' social media game.Sean and Craig also take a look at the projected roster for Team USA at the 2022 Winter Olympics in China and they pay tribute to Brad McCrimmon who passed away 10 years ago today in the Lokomotiv Yaroslavl airplane crash.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to this week's, not this week's, this Tuesdays, or however often the show is produced. Who knows? There's no way to know of the Athletic Hockey Show. Impossible to say. Impossible to figure that out to know that for sure. I enjoyed it. As always, or as never, because we haven't talked in weeks or maybe even months by Sean Gentilly. Whose fault was that? Not mine. Summers, I would say. Summer and Craig. Those are the, those are my two.

the two elements that I'm placing blame on here. Oh yeah, you've been doing this the whole time. You've been hopping on other days of the week. Yeah. Really controversial, by the way. You're sticking me with Haley. Ian? My God, what's wrong with you?

How could you do this to me? Well, the good news is the Americans edition of the Athletic Hockey Show is back and in full force, because not only do we have Sean and I reunited, as you all have demanded, We've heard all the one person on Twitter that asked us when we were going to be back on. We heard that person. Thank you to that person. Stop coming to my home.

Leave me and my family alone. Everybody calm down. We're back. We're back. And to make it even more American, Don Waddell joins us later, who is, of course, he's the GM of the Carolina Hurricanes. Former Team USA architect of the Olympics is knee-deep in USA Heart Cocky, pretty, you know, has the red, white, and blue at all times.

I think he was flying a flag on the Zoom call behind him while we talked to him. It's really surprising. Very small, very small, bald eagle, but it was, it was there. It was there. You know what I meant to ask him? I'm really mad. I was going to make a joke because we were on Zoom if Cock and Yamie's next contract was in the drawer behind him.

I had that joke all lined up. I didn't do it. We didn't even get a Southeast Division forever slipped in there. How did we long live the thrash? How did we not say that? We got, we didn't, but the beauty of it. Out of practice. It's because it's because we haven't, we haven't talked in a month or whatever it's been.

And also, Don was really good. And it was a fun conversation. We, of course, talked about the offer sheet, the origins of it, how it came out. My favorite part that I'm glad I remembered was his quote that matched up word for word with Mark Bergevin. The quote that made me like spit out the drink I was bad when I found out the news. Like, it was, the whole thing was. was beautifully orchestrated, executed, they got the player,

it never happens in hockey. So that was, that's a great conversation with Don. He's the busiest man in the sport between, between the offer sheet, between running the, running the business side for, in the rodeo?

For the hurricanes, for all of these trips he apparently has made throughout his life to various rodeos and or mechanical bulls. Like, I do like he, he was casually dropping it. I'm also in charge of the business,

I'm also in charge of ticket sales. I'm also in charge. And it's like I got to run. I've got to, you know, plan our social strategy. I'm not going to ruin the entire interview, but the highlight was, is him assuming that we knew some random place in Fort Worth that had a mechanical boy.

I was like, oh, yeah, you don't kill. He's like, oh, gosh, sure. Haven't spend a ton of time in Fort Worth in my life. I'm sure it's great. Someday. So, Sean, we have so much to catch. I don't even know where to start. like this is like this is drinking from a fire hose right this is what this is what happens when you

even if it's a month even if it's like the the slowest month in the calendar like there's it's stuff's going to stack up to talk about here um so you know producer jeff who's great gave us a little bit an outline because he knew we weren't going to prepare for any of this and i do like we should probably start with the olympic news and i know it's a few days past but you know i imagine a lot of you listening, we're also on vacation, I hope. And the Olympics ran, and Sean Yu and Dom and Corey immediately ran rosters. Yeah. That were both discouraging from an American standpoint because, gosh, the Canadian, like,

the extras you had as center on Canada, the second you think you're closing the gap on the Canadians, they have, you know, Ryan O'Reilly as a, you know, sitting in the press box. It's crazy. We had all that done, you know, a week in advance because we, I mean, it was the worst kept. Was it even a secret? It was. And it was just the slow motion rollout of knowing that, you know, NHL players were going to be back. So we obviously had a couple calls about that. And, you know, it goes in order. We talked about Canada's first. And that just set the tone even when we had that conversation between the four or five of us who were on that call. It's like, you're thinking about the U.S. roster. and then you're like,

when you're like, well, Sean Couturier is in, like, he's not going to play. He's not going to play for Canada, right? Ryan O'Reilly's going to be,

going to be in the press box. And you, and you make the Canada roster, I mean, and if you're me, you're like, that's, that's the lens that you look at it through,

right? You're like, this is, this is the death start. Like, what is, like, what is the U.S.

roster going to look like? And that's not even the knock the crop of U.S. players, because it's as good as it's ever been. But when you're talking about, you know, the machine to the north and on that end of things, yeah, it's, it's, it's tough. It's tough to come out of those roster building exercises with any thought other than my God, this is everybody else's playing for second place. This is supposed to be the American episode. Yeah. I need to, I need to turn up. I need to turn up the jingoism. I'm out of, I'm out of practice here.

What I thought was interesting about your approach was that it wasn't like, here's who I would put on it, which is what I've done, you know, a million times. And I always like to build rosters that I think are fun and probably not at all realistic. You were like, here's what I think is going to this team USA is going to look like. And with that, you have to get a little bit into the heads of, you know, the management team at USA Hockey and try to project because you know, they're not going to build it necessarily. They tend to not build it how we would build it. Right. Were there players that you, as I'm looking at this, this US roster?

where you were like, okay, this guy wouldn't have been on my team necessarily, but as I'm trying to project, I have to put them on there because I know they're probably going to do it. Yeah, talking specifically about the U.S. roster. I mean, first off, Pranman was really helpful with all that because he's plugged in with, you know, USA hockey in the mindset there a little bit, a little bit more than certainly the rest of us on that call were. We didn't know what to do with Johnny Goodrell. He was the one where we're like, okay, like, you look at the way the last couple years have gone and on merit, he might not deserve it. But it's still, it's still a Johnny Goodrow. We didn't really know what to do with all the Islanders guys. I, it turned into like, do we, like, would they rather have Brock Nelson or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, I don't know. That was, that was tough. I didn't think Brian Russ was going to end up on the roster, but that was, that was a, that was a, that was a, that was a, that was a, that was a, that was a, that was a, that was a, that was a, that was a, that was a. conversation that we had. He's actually a good example, I think, of the way of the way we try to

approach the process. As you look at Brian Rustin, is he a star? No, but he's a capable 20 or 25 goal score at this point. He's really versatile. He can play really on this team. He can play on probably three lines, kills penalties, has been really good on the power play in Pittsburgh when he's gotten the opportunity. So you look at that sort of versatility and, you know, filling a role. And it does feel like that's going to be the sort of the sort of thing that they, the things that they value in the process, in the process that, that they go through. But it was. It was a, there were some, there were some weird choices on there. Well, I think, the mistake we make when doing these sometimes is we're not like, who's going to play on the PK? I'm like, I'm going to put Jack Hughes on the

fourth line and, you know what I mean? And, and it's going to look great when Don puts the graphic out. Jeff, great Hughes, great example. We're like, because I, I, I immediately was like, how is he? How was he not on this team? But like, are you going to play, are you going to play Jack Hughes on a fourth line? Do you keep Ms. Spare? Because God knows he's not going to be in his typical role of being a top six center. So, yeah, there needs to be some mind given to the role that they fill on a given team. Yeah.

Johnny Gujarro is going to end up. I have to think he's playing high up on that. Yeah. But who knows? I hear you. I hear you. Right. Right.

But like, look at someone, I mean, Brock over Brock Besser, like, I don't know. Maybe. Like, those are, those are the kind of choices that, you know, they're, they're going to have to make. And it's a good problem for USA hockey to have, right? Because this is, especially at forward, this is a, this is as deep as deep as, as deep as we've seen. But it makes for some, it makes for some odd choices.

Because there's guys who you're just like, oh, no-brainer. Like, but a guy like Kyle Connor, great example. Like, if he's not on your top line or your top two lines, like, what, what, what exactly does he do on that team? And it's, it's an open question. When you move to the defense, this is where it gets interesting for the U.S. because it seems like it's a no-brainer. My guess is there's always one guy they sneak.

Like, there's going to be one or two old guys they sneak onto the roster, right? And we should have put Ryan Suter on the roster just in, in your honor. No, like, look, I'm just, I'm not making the case for Ryan Suter. I'm just saying, I'm not, I'm like, or Jeff Petrie or somebody's going to get, who's a spot. I'm not, yeah, like, I'm only, I'm like only half joking about that, right? Like, like, it, it happens. We've seen it. Every, every year, there's a couple old guys that sneak on because that's the kind of thing

that they value. And if it's not suited, maybe, maybe it's going to be someone else, right? Yeah. Maybe Ryan McDonough feels that for it. You got, you know, you guys put Joe Pavalsky on, which is, you know. McDona, McDonough was kind of like, that was the thought process with him. I was like, okay, he's a veteran of the process. He's still pretty good.

If you want to have, like, the quote unquote, old guy. I mean, I mean, you know, how Ryan McDonough is 31 or however. Yeah, we had this talk about Ryan McDonough. He's not as old as we think he is. No. I thought he was, I thought he was as old as me. I thought he was four or five years older than he actually is.

Apparently, yeah, yeah, he's, yeah, but he is old. I'm, I'm decrepit. But it was like, but it was, it was, it was, it was like, Ryan McDonough kind of fills that, fills that slot, right? Where he's, he's been, he played a ton internationally and kind of fills that, fills that role. And he's, and he's still really good. And he would look really good paired with Adam Fox in particular.

I think that was one of the fun one of the fun kind of pairings that we came up. I wouldn't mind seeing that. What was the debate only because I've lived it with Dom and Seth Jones? I mean, Stan Bowman is the GM. So we know we're Stan. It's a no brainer. He's on the team. There's no sense in pretending that he's not.

There was no sense in even having that was part of, honestly, that was part of why we frame the discussion. in that way because it's like we couldn't we're just not going to do the Seth Jones thing again just not just not going to happen and that it'll happen God knows it'll happen with the tears project and all sorts of stuff we discuss heading into the season but that trying to figure out how good Seth Jones is exactly was not was not it couldn't be part of the discussion he's going to be on the team he's on he's on he's on the team like there's there's there's no sense of pretending otherwise all right before we get to Don I do want your because we haven't really talked about it I do want your unfiltered opinion

of the offer sheet effort by Carolina. What were, when that all went down, would it? I think it's really funny. And there was, there was a point where I thought, I really do think it makes sense for both teams.

Like I think, I think he's a good, I think he, at $6 million this year, and being part of, you know, having that control over him moving forward. I think he,

I think he makes sense for the Carolina hurricanes. And I think saying no to God, Kenemi at 6-1 for, year A, and then taking first and third round picks in return from make a lot of sense for the Montreal Canaanians. Both teams are better now than they were two weeks ago, I think. With, with, do you do not, I think, I think Christian Dvorak over, over just Barry Cuccahameh makes, makes Montreal better. Big winners of Arizona Coyotes.

Get some, they get to max out the asking price. Yeah, no, good for, good, good for them. Great, great organization. Do they have a rink? Is there somewhere to play? I don't know. You're just going to wait for Arizona State to build their shit. Played a 5,000 seat collard drink for two years.

Oh, my gosh. Cross your fingers on Tempe. Way to go. Good job, guys. The story is old as time. All right. Let's get to the Don, I don't know, conversation because it was fun. And Don, I've been covering first GM I ever covered as a kid reporter.

I didn't even want to crack that one open. But my God, my God, you know, Don. Waddell for so, so long. I wanted you to ask him what his first impression of me when I showed up at the thrashers practice facility. That's a function. What? No, that's a function of me being, of me operating on Pacific time at the moment.

I'm not, I'm not clicking on on all cylinders. Well, not ready to, not ready to make fun of Craig with it with Don Waddell at 717 a.m. That's fine. I appreciate that. All right, let's let's dive into that. We are now thrilled to be joined by Don Waddell. GM of the Carolina Hurricanes and the man who refuses to take a day off this summer, crashing vacations left and right. Don, how are you? Thanks for doing this.

I'm great. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Oh, my place. So is it slowing down at all now? Are you going to give yourself a week before you make huge news in the hockey space? Oh, the hockey space might be under control, but you know, I'm on the business side right now. things are very busy trying to gear up for the season. So there's a lot to be done, but you know what? It's all going in the right direction, and we're happy about how the summer's played out from a hockey team standpoint. Yeah, I mean, obviously, well, let's, I mean, we should start with the offer sheet.

And you know what, Don, I was, I mean, so much of it, I mean, killed me and all of us over it. Like, the whole thing was fantastic. But I would say, what I was dying to know from the second I saw was who, who's idea was it? Like where did this come from? And so now I bring you here to ask you that question. Who gets credit for

this? Or how the offer sheet was structured? The whole thing. Who was like, you know what we should do? We should offer she cock and yemi? Who, like, who was that person? What happened is, you know, we started, you know, we were short one night,

top nine forward and we were trying to look to see what was out there. Not much we felt there was pre-agency was going to help us. started to look around teams and we knew my child was having a hard time signing yes very so you know I talked to Mark Bergerjan a week before

the two before the offer sheet and said you know it would be interested in trading for the player and so we had a lot of dialogue that week all the way through Friday night about trading for the player and you know when it became apparent that that wasn't going to work you know we knew what the

as a Friday night we started talking about the offer sheet we knew that that compensation was the first and third and so you know we talked to i talked to mark about it and the end of the day we couldn't reach a deal and so we move forward so i i would say the whole organization was supported remember we we know this player real well he was taken right behind and dresfesh svestnikov and a draft uh at number three and so we did a big dive back three years ago into this player his personality his ability and all that And, you know, we had a lot of discussion about it back in that draft year. So, you know, we knew the player well.

We felt like that, you know, this player has tremendous upside, still 21 years old. How often do you have a chance to go get a 21-year-old player off a roster that's played already three years in the league? So, you know, a decision was made to try to trade for a player. And then when it became apparent that we couldn't make a trade, that's when we decided to make the next step and make an offer sheet, something that teams have used in the past are the CBA? I've been covering you a long time. I don't think you've used the offer sheet as a, right? This is your first.

You know, we've all in the hockey media space, like, debated the merits of it, why they're not used more often and why they are. And, I mean, you, I mean, you know Mark a long time. You've got relationship with these GMs a long time. Is there any, like, code or was, were you, like, did you feel like you were violating some unwritten rules when you were going through this process?

or, you know, what was the thought process from your perspective? No, you know, Mark and I have always had a good relationship. Obviously, we went through it a few years ago with a special, a whole little different circumstances. And, you know, I was talking to Mark since Tuesday, you know, so obviously he knew we had strong interests in the player. We talked every day through that whole week. And then, you know, so it wasn't any surprise by any means.

He knew that we were definitely interested in the player and did whatever put our best efforts forward to try to make a trade for the player. And even as, you know, we said, you're going to match, just call the agent, make your own deal. You know, the offer shoot was not something, you know, everybody talks about revenge. Yeah, it's not about revenge. You know, revenge is, that's a strong word that's going to get you in trouble. Yeah, that's your only reason for doing it. You know, this goes back to who the player is and who we thought, how much we thought about

the player, go back even to his draft year. So, you know, that's how it moved in. I got the offer sheet on Saturday afternoon. Did Mark give you the courtesy call two years ago? Like you gave him the call the week before the offer came. Did that, was that something that was on the books? I got a call the morning of the offer sheet with saying they'd like to trade for a player. And two hours later or three hours later, I got the offer sheet.

So a little different circumstances. Yeah. You know, Tom Dunnan had just bought the team. Right. You know, and there was some people were tested them to see. the C. if he was going to, you know, put up the money. And obviously, we'll get the offer sheet.

We know the player, Sebastian, real well. It took us, you know, literally a minute to talk about it. You knew we were going to accept the offer. But a little different circumstances in both deals. And certainly, hopefully, you know, that it is, you know, again, it is part of the CBA. But you don't see it used very often. And I'm sure will be another. multiple years before we see another one.

You don't see it used often. You don't see it work often. Like, what was it? Justin Penner was the last one. So this is, I mean, this is a rarity. When did you know, like, did you, you said you were going to match yours right away. Like, everyone knew that.

In some level, I think Montreal did you guys a huge favor because that had the potential to drag out with your player. In this case, I don't, you know, there was a healthy debate from day one, whether or not they would match. When did you know for sure you were getting the player this time? I didn't know until Montreal put out. there release 15 minutes before you know when we made the offer and that's why you know when you

look at it you did we spent a lot of time talking about internally you know because we want to put something forward that you know Montreal like a lot of teams have capped situations you know if we make it a long-term deal it's probably easier to match because they know what the cost is going forward so that's why we just decided we're going to be one year and make it a number then make it difficult and obviously we can make it work from our right. Why do you think this is something we see so infrequently? Like is there is there one big reason or is it just a combination of a bunch of different things?

I think most times if you look at the young players that are coming out, most times people feel like they're going to match. And the other thing is, the other thing you got to remember, you got to have a player that's willing to sign an offer sheet, you know, just because the money might be where he wants, but it might not be a place he wants to go. So it's multi-fixed as far as, you know, you've got to, you're not going to do it just to raise somebody's cap or make it hard on a team. You want to do it because you really want the player. And I think then you've got to have the player that wants to go to that team.

So I think multiple things play into it why you don't see it that often. I like the concept of doing it to a player who's, you know, the second tier player who's not, you know, everyone's like, oh, you know, you should go get Pedersen. And it's like, no, like they're going to match the superstar. Right. But maybe the guy that you're not sure what you have yet, who, you know, you could price out a little bit. Like that's why I, that's what I liked about this one because, I mean, you're still betting on potential. I mean, that's a high dollar value for what we've seen so far from them. But like, you're still making a bit of a bet there.

Right. And, you know, it's an acquisition cost. It's way we look at it. How many times you get a chance to get a 21-year-old player that was drafted third overall? You know, you're right. You talk about some of the other free agents, restrictive. free agents and you know first of all it's probably going to match anyways but then it's also you got to get the player the agent to agree that they're going to leave whatever city they're in so um you know

you're right though i think you know it's like ah ho we move right away we're going to match the deal a ho as our franchise player and we weren't going to let let him go and so i think that's what makes it tougher on the team when when these situations do happen like it did with this player it's great. Do you think he's a $6 million player? Like I know, I know it's, I know it's just for the year,

but no, it's not a $6 million player right now. Again, but you had to put a price tag on acquiring the player. Yeah, we knew the compensation is the first and a third. But again, you know,

if you told me you go buy a player, you know, you can't go buy players anymore. You know, you can't say to the team, I'm going to give you $10 million, and I'm on the player, you just can't do it.

So, you know, you look at it as a total, package, you know what the draft pits are going to be, and you know what you're going to pay the player. And that's the acquisition price to get this type of player. It's funny because people like GMs overpay all the time in an unrestricted free agency. Like those, and those are for 29 year olds. So I'm sitting here going, if you're going to overpay for a player or whatever your definition of overpay is, do it for a 21 year old. At least there's a fighting chance.

Like you know some of these contracts signed on July 1st. You're like, boy, that's, that's going to be a rough one in two years. Like this one you don't know. And it's for a 29 year old player for seven years or eight years. Like you're over, you're, you're overpaying a 21 year old for for potentially one year and then, you know, whatever happens after that is, is up, is, is up to you guys. Yeah, we had, we have one of those decisions this summer too. Yeah, that's right. That's right. You're familiar with the concept. Yeah. I'm, I mean, it's pretty clear where you're, like, that, I mean, it's just the way you've addressed this off season. Like, it's clear where you're, I mean, you're paying Svetchenikov. You're paying the young players in, and, you're, I mean, it's pretty

players in, and I think in a cap space world where young players are so valuable, like that is where you have to put your resources. Yeah, I agree 100%. You know, as you move forward, you know, we look at our team now with, you know, with Sebastian Koff and Yaspur and Marty Nakash and Ahos, you know, these guys, we do it right and they continue to grow as players. We can be in pretty good shape with some pretty good young players for a long time. Sean, do you have any more thoughts on the offer sheet before I turn the page?

Oh, no, no. I think we, I think we about covered it. I mean, it's just always, it's always such a fascinating thing to see from the outside, just because it's a process. We just don't, we just don't witness all that much. So, yeah, it was, it was interesting to see. The other thing, Don, and not to, not to, you know, go, I don't want to, like, change the mood here, but it stays the 10-year anniversary of, you know, the plane crashed, the KHL, locomotive, and that killed among others, Brad McCriman, who you knew really well. And I, you know, we, Brad's favorite of mine, and obviously in years as well.

And I just wanted to, I mean, get your thoughts on 10 years. And this isn't why we had you on here, but I was thinking of that this morning. Like, that's, I can't believe it's been 10 years. And, like, I can still hear Brad's laugh. And it's, you know, what do you think when you think of that? Yeah. No, you know, the one thing we all know, Brad was a great player and he was a good hockey person, but he was an even better person. Yeah.

And that's what you, you know, you remember that the laughs sitting there having a cold beverage at night, after games and stuff like that, because he was just a good nature, got along with everybody, a very, very, very smart hockey guy. And obviously, they had a great career as a player. So, but the most important thing for me is always that, you know, you remember him as a person. Yeah. He was a very good person, as you know. He treated everybody great. Like, you know, I was just, when I was dealing with him as a kid reporter, you know, didn't know anybody, didn't know anything from anything. And he, you know, he'd sit down and have a great goose with me. You know, we'd go to, we're in Montreal and my goodness, you know, it was, and that's how you learn. That's how you learn the game. And he would, he was very patient with me. And as I was learning how anything worked and would explain things. And it was just, you can always tell how. You can always tell, how good a person is and how they treat everybody, right? From the server to the, you know, and that was Brad.

Like, you never knew who he was dealing with. He was, everyone got it. It was great. I agree with you, 100%. It doesn't matter what your level was or what your title was. It was all the same. Yeah, he was great. So, man, I can't believe that's been 10 years.

So, so, Don, you mentioned a little bit on the business side. You know, you do have, you wear multiple hats there in Carolina. As you kind of get things geared up for training camp, what's the biggest challenge going into a season? We still have no idea really how this is going to go. Yeah, we just got new, some COVID memos in the last, fact, the last two hours and Friday. So, you know, we're continuing to have to adjust on the fly because, you know, as we all know, we're living in a time where nobody really knows what's going to happen tomorrow. We all are hoping that things continue to get better. And, you know, our state's taking a different approach.

We are a mass state, but, you know, it's not about shutting things down. It's about getting people out vaccinated. Yeah. People who get vaccinated, you know, the better off for everybody. And, you know, it's, we're living in an interesting time. And, you know, hopefully, though, we can, you know, we're a little over a month away from starting the NHLCs. and hopefully we can get things in our house in order and be able to operate as we normally would in a normal seat.

Anything good in those COVID memos? You want to break some news on here for us? Yeah, let's go. I haven't got through the seven pages. Some dense reading material. Yeah. Oh, you know, anybody associated with the team is going to be vaccinated to be around the team.

And, you know, that's something that we don't have any issue with. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to be 100% compliant, so it's not a condition for us. I was pleasantly surprised at the NHL's vaccination numbers in terms of the players. When I saw it, like, it started out a little slow, and I wasn't, you know, knowing, you know, the makeup of the players, I was worried it wouldn't get there. And it seems like, how, like, do you know your number in terms of the percentage? Yeah, it will be 100%.

Mm-hmm. Everybody has gotten at least a first shot. That's great. Camp starts will be at 100%. It was something that, you know, again, and we just try to explain our team doctors involved, talking to players. We have a couple of new players that hadn't gotten it.

And, you know, we just talk through the whole situation. Again, you know, we're not forcing anybody. Everybody's doing it on their own. But I call all the consequences and what would transpire if, you know, COVID did hit our locker room. So we should be in good shape. Well, you guys had a couple. couple months to kind of work in silence too. Like it's not an NFL scenario or a baseball

scenario where you see where you see teams kind of level up and like, okay, we're here, we're here, we're here. Like it happened in real time for them. So with you guys, you could at least go dark for a couple months and then come back and see like, all right, look how, look how good we've done. We're going to be at 100%. Yeah, well, I think the first protocols that came out some month ago or whatever, I want to talk about, you know, the testing. If you're not vaccinated, you're still be tested every day. know and that i think that helped change some of the the the mind you know you have some uh religious faiths that i understand and you know you got some uh political beliefs that i don't quite

understand but uh you know it's uh it's uh something that uh you know we all have to deal with and you know hopefully uh we can uh all stay safe so was the release of the protocol effective was Did that move some guys over to the vaccinated side in the last couple weeks? I think it all helps. I think it all helps. I think education was a big part of it, getting our doctors involved. I think that, you know, instead of hearing it from my trainer or for me and my coach, you're hearing it from, you know, people that live this life every day that deal with it every

day. I think it's a combination of everything, but I would think the medical department of the NHL and our medical internal people really did a good job of just laying it out for the players. Yeah, how much that was on your end? Were you guys setting up calls with the team's medical staff and doing that on the team into things? Yeah, we were. Yeah, we were very proactive. I think we had five players after the free agency that had not been vaccinated.

So we were very proactive of making sure they knew what the circumstances were. And again, you know, we had our own internal meeting first, and we weren't forcing anybody to do it. Everybody had to do it on their own account, but we just wanted to make sure that they had all the facts involved in it. There was one more offer sheet. I just remembered. I can't believe I forgot to ask this question, Don. When I read the quote from you on the release, that was the quote from Mark Brighier-Man, I died. Like, I laughed so hard.

Like, I was like, that was the funniest thing I think I've seen in a release. life. Come on. Who's that? Where did that come from? I was just say, you know, our marketing social team do a tremendous job. You know, the whole release and a few other things as you know there, you know, it was nothing against Montreal. It was all trying to build our fan base.

Our fan base has been very loyal through this last year and a half or so. And, you know, our social gets huge kudos around the league from the NHL, you know, in their numbers and, you know, we got a great team. And so we talked about it. And certainly they had some ideas. And again, it wasn't meant anybody other than trying to engage our fans as we try to do on a regular basis. So is that one, that is not one of the business aspects that you have your, one of the elements of the business pie that you have your, you have your fingers in.

You weren't, you weren't sending the tweet on tweet tech whenever all that is out. At the end of the day, I get that to sign off on everything. Yeah. They were very engaged in the last day or so. Actually, it wasn't until Saturday morning when I made them aware that that was a potential option that we're talking about, a sign up on the opportunity. So they came, they moved pretty quickly and came up with some pretty good ideas. That was great.

That just, I love it. Now it's making me start to wonder if, GM quotes and releases are actual GM quotes. I don't know. Now I'm doubting everything that's coming to my email, Don. I don't know how accurate those are from now. You guys don't. You don't actually say we want to thank this guy for his time in the organization and all his contributions.

All right. Last one for me, are you done? Roster building done? Because, you know, there's a guy in Eric Stahl that, you know, would be, would look great in back in Carolina. What work do you still have to have done here? Yeah, I think we're in pretty good shape right now. You know, we have 15 forwards and eight defense.

or seven defense been two goalies. You know, you're always looking, you know, I'm not going to say, I'm not going to be making a call or not take any calls because you never know if there's something you feel like that can help your hockey club and have moved to help somebody else. You know, it's got to be a partner to make a deal. But overall, we're pretty happy at how the summer's gone and look forward to get going into training camp.

Awesome. From a hockey standpoint and a business standpoint, it does kind of feel like you guys are entering kind of a different, kind of a different phase. Like you're there's expectations on the ice and there's increased, you know, attention paid partially because of the social team would do such a great job to to how you guys exist in that sphere too. So is that, is that the name of the game this season? Just sort of just sort of progressing on both those fronts? Yeah, 100%. You know, marketing is a wonderful tool, but you have to have something to

market also. You remember where we probably took the biggest step as a marketing team is when a friend of ours that did Hockey Night in Canada a few years ago called us a bunch of jerks. I'll be honest, within an hour that night, we were printing T-shirts. And I give all the credit in the world to Mike Borman, who oversees our marketing team. Because we jumped on that. And then, you know, then we fell into the emergency goalie situation in Toronto. You know, so we've had some things handed to us pretty good. But it's one thing to get handed to it.

It's another thing that capitalize on it. And we've certainly capitalized on all those things that we talked about. Yeah. And it's another thing to understand that it's something that would play well with your fan base specifically. Like it seems it seems like you guys, you guys know what to work. You guys know what to work with the people who actually care about, who care about your team the most. Yeah. And, you know, we're in a market.

I'm not going to say it's not a hockey market. It's becoming more of a hockey market. So we have to try to continue to attract. new fans, you know, and I can tell you that over the last three years, our fan base has really grown. And, you know, it even goes, you know, if you go back when Tom Dunman bought the team until today, we're up probably over 4,000 season tickets. And, you know, a combination of that, obviously, is we made the playoffs last three years, which helps last year. It was a tough year because we were coming

off a pretty good high and then everything hit last year. But the momentum has picked up again this summer. And I think as we approach the start of the season, we'll have our highest season ticket base since back in the early 2000s. And I'm looking forward to continue to moving forward. Well, Don, thanks for doing this. Thanks for carving out time as you guys from making news and making waves. Well, we figured the hockey world was pretty quiet.

The way of Saturday night of five, they're sitting on their decks starting to have their little bit more coverage. So we just wanted to make sure that we kept you nice. So employment is hard these days. We want to keep you guys all businesses. Thank you. Yeah, we appreciate that. That's who I felt for was Arpin and Sivie and the beat writers because I'm like,

I can see her laugh at the release and be like, this is great. And then they're just scrambling. Best of luck, uh, Civie. Yeah. And Sarah said she couldn't reach me because I was at the rodeo that night. She got a lot of play out of that one too, man. She had her, you gift wrap the lead for her. It was great.

What we failed to say is the rodeo was in our building to be the president of arena also. I was not working at the rodeo. You were there out of professional obligations as well. It wasn't solely a personal trip. I've gotten more emails from people saying I didn't know you're a rodeo guy. I'm kind of funny. Did you know you were a rodeo guy? I wrote the mechanical bowl back in 1981 my first year pro and essential hockey league, Birmingham.

Alabama. So I go way back. I had some of those days living in Houston with the cowboy boots and the cowboy hats of that, but I could say they haven't come out for quite a few years. How long did you last in the mechanical bowl? Now we're getting somewhere. So I ran the mechanical bowl, I clicked my back a little bit. Of course, as one does.

Yeah, you'll have that. Then in the next summer, I went to Gillies and rode the real bull. In Gillies, you remember Gillies, the big bar in Fort Worth? No, but that just sounds great. Yeah, they had live, oh, there's a movie out of it. They had live bowls there, so I got the ride in the real bowl in there. That didn't last very long ago. It's an experience, at least I can say that I've ridden both mechanical and real bowls.

So when Sivie writes, not your first rodeo with the next line, that was so perfect. It was like the timing was, it was just beautiful. Just too gift wrapped. Love it. Well, thanks, Don. Looking forward to seeing you in person at some point here. And whatever we would live. Yeah, this is fun.

Have a good week and we'll talk to you. Well, it felt inevitable. Ryan Miller is part of the USA Hockey Brain Trust officially. He was part of that raft of hires that we've seen over the last couple of days is, you know, Mike Sullivan filled out his staff. We saw some guys from Pittsburgh join on there. And what exactly is Ryan Miller's title with USA Hockey at this point, Craig? That's a good question.

I don't know. Here's what I would say. It doesn't matter. Ryan Miller immediately walks into that room. I'm glad they did it. I'm glad he's willing to do it because when we had him on, it seemed like there was going to be a little bit of downtime. Would that last three weeks for him?

Yeah. I think that's sort of what I was getting at. it felt inevitable that he was going to get involved in one way or another, right? Like, he's such a, such a smart guy and such a thoughtful guy. And clearly the desire, you know, to be a part of some sort of team building, you know, brain trust was there. Like, we knew that when we talked to him of a few months ago. And I think USA hockey is a, is a great spot.

You can be an assistant coach on this, on this team, whatever. Make him make him, make him the American goaltending czar. right like if he wants if he wants a job in that capacity with USA hockey like he he should he should just write his ticket and I'm and I'm and I'm sure he is so good to see good to see him involved always always good to see guys like that transition into the next phase of their lives pretty pretty seamlessly yeah no I'm it's it's good it's smart I mean hopefully Ryan I like where Ryan's heads at he'll I think he'll he'll be an important voice in the room for USA hockey All right, I'm going to end in a downer.

But, you know, Don and I, you know, in the interview with him, we mentioned it's been 10 years since the locomotive plane crash. And I just, you know, wanted to, first of all, I wanted to highlight a story that Dan Robson did on the coaching staff. And to me, it was personal because it was Brad McCrimmon. And Brad is unbelievable or, you know, was an unbelievable guy influential on me. and helping me learn the game at a deeper level. I mean, you and I work together, it's boarding news back then when the crash, around the time the crash happened.

And I remember always, even before that, Brad McCrimand, whether it was with the thrash or with whoever else. I mean, he was, he was a go-to guy for you. Like, he popped up. He popped up in a lot of your work. A lot of Bradwick, Rick, Rick, Cripping, well, right. But part of that was because he was, that's the kind of guy he was.

I mean, Don, Don alluded to it. He was a go-to guy for media folks, partially because he was such an approachable, decent, decent persons. Yeah, I've got, I've, I've, I watch you cover him as a coach and then, and then afterwards. What I loved about Brad, so he loved the game of hockey. And that's what, that was the motivation, besides being a decent human being, which he was, he loved hockey.

And so he wanted, he wanted, if I got something wrong in the paper or whatever, or maybe didn't seem to understand. it, you'd pull me aside and say, here's the situation. And, you know, that, that happens, but probably not enough, right? And he wasn't doing it to help me, certainly. He probably was doing it to help the players that he was coaching so that the public facing side of it in this, you know, in this local coverage was fair. And, you know, that was his motivation, probably. And along with just being a great guy. And, you know, I don't know if, I don't know if readers realize how important how important guys like that are to people like you and me because especially especially us

as in like the two of us specifically we didn't really play hockey growing up we weren't we weren't hockey guys this is this is the business we've chosen and it's the opportunity we've been afforded but and that and that's all well and good but being good at these jobs also entails talking to people like the brad mccrimands of the world who who you know can explain stuff to to dopes to dopes to like us, A. That's right. And B also pass on that, you know, pass on that love of the game that he had on, on a level that, frankly, the two of us didn't, didn't come up with.

That's right. That's 100% right. So I just wanted to tell, like, just remember Brad specifically and just, you know, I'm thinking of Marine, his wife and kids, Carlin and Liam, you know, who probably, you know, I remember seeing Liam around Jolos Arena when I moved back to Detroit and always, a presence as a kid and I'm sure he's probably whatever 30 now or I don't know who knows what happens with time but um you know it never gets easier um I'm sure for for the micrriman family and and you know I just wanted to tell them we're thinking of them and he's still a huge loss and I'm glad

that you know people are still to you know it's a tragedy but I'm glad we're still having these conversations because huge impact that you know so many people on that plane made a huge impact the people around them I think I think Robson's story did a is as good as anybody can of communicating that too. Yeah. It's worth some time today. Yeah. If you're unfamiliar with any of it,

and I was actually, like, that's the other thing. I was reading in the comments. I was surprised people are like, oh, wow, what a sad story. I didn't,

I don't remember that. And that's how, like, that's where we're, like, 10 years, man. Like, I don't know.

You're talking about people in their, in their 20s now who, you know, just wasn't, it wasn't a thing for them. So yeah, it's quite a, It is.

It's quite a, because I just remember what a, what a day that was just professionally and personally and whatever else. And to see people get exposed to it through, through dance story is wild. All right. No good way to close this after that. But I do want to encourage people now.

We're back. If you subscribe to the athletic, we like to interact with listeners and subscribers in the comments. And we do this. Like I'm looking at the last episode, which was years ago, where we had Jim and Ellen Hughes, they were so good. They were so great. They were awesome. And we got some comments. We interacted.

And, you know, we were, you know, we've been banning phrases. So I'm going to add one of the list that I have to refine again now that we're back. Christopher Kay. Someone said, someone said 100%, which is, which is 100% me. Oh, they said we had to ban 100%. I don't, I don't know if I can do that. But that, but that would be a good one. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, instead of saying yes, I say 100% about 50% of the time. It works every time. someone wanted to ban the phrase run it back Christopher Kay that's probably me because I like that phrase a lot

but it doesn't affect me so I don't care okay run it back's gone 100% is gone no problem whoa whoa and my favorite comment from Yardina says please don't ever end the American edition and this is we're here to say the American edition is living on for another season at least

it's forever and forever in our hearts. Thank you to Sean for checking in from vacation in Seattle, wherever it is you are. Thanks to... I'm not telling you where I am specifically. Of course, you never do, which is... That's fair to you're right. We think thanks to Don for joining us and putting up with our immature questions about rodeos and mechanical bowls.

Thanks to Jeff for, as always for producing, and thank you for listening. everybody. It's great to be back.