The Athletic Hockey Show - Carter Verhaeghe vs. Kyle Connor in The Athletic’s NHL Player Tiers, does the preseason need a mercy rule?, immaculate vibes around the Ottawa Senators, and more

Episode Date: September 25, 2023

Ian and Julian are back on this Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show to discuss whether preseason hockey needs a mercy rule after the Flames 10-0 beatdown of the Canucks, in light of Taylor Swift dating Travis Kelce, Ian shares his experience of Carrie Underwood dating Mike Fisher in Ottawa, and the guys praise the fashion of hockey jerseys. Plus, The Athletic’s own Shayna Goldman joins the show to defend Carter Verhaeghe’s placement in this year’s NHL Player Tiers in the potential new segment “Explain Yourself!”, and Ian talks about the immaculate vibes around the Senators with Michael Andlauer at the helm.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowYou’ll be amazed at what you can do with Grammarly. Go to http://grammarly.com/GO to download for FREE today.Head to http://factormeals.com/nhlshow50 and use code nhlshow50 to get 50% off. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. We are back to kick off your week in hockey. It's the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. And as always, it's Ian Menstruly. I was about to call us the M&M boys. But you know what? Maccindoo, Maconoo shot me down. The Eminemboys. What?

Macandu shot me down. I said, Sean, I said, we have a great opportunity for a sponsorship deal here. With Eminem, you know how expensive that food? No, you know what would be even bad? I always said, although our American listeners won't understand this. We have a candy up here in Canada that's very much like M&M's called Smarties, right?

How much of a shot would it be to the M&M and the folks at, who owns Eminem? Mars? Whatever. If we went and did a sponsorship with like their rival, that's crazy. The M&M boys, this segment brought to you by Smarties.

We should do that when we have Shana Goldman. I'm not a big smarties person, but if smarties through the bag, I would be eating nothing but smarties. See? Absolutely. There we go. We got to be fishing. But we got to be aggressively fishing for sponsorship opportunities. That's what really, that's really what podcasts are.

There's just opportunities to fish for sponsorship. I mean, that's it, right? Like, you can't just have manscape ads littered throughout the podcast. You need, like, bigger, you need some other fish to fry when it comes to sponsorship. So I'm with you on that. Okay, we got to get into this, man. You covered, and I used the word covered very loosely. Yes.

Because you covered a hockey game on Sunday in which the Calgary Flames beat the Vancouver Connects 10-0. 10-0-0 hockey game. Here's my question, because it's pre-season. Do we need a mercy rule? Like, at seven-go-if ever there's a seven-gold discrepancy, you just sound the horn. and then if it's on a Sunday afternoon, guess what? The big screen, they just start streaming

Sunday night football or something. Just walk away. Everyone walk away. There's nothing to be gained after seven goals. What do you think? I'm okay with not having a mercy rule in hockey. I don't think it's in us to have a mercy rule in the sport. I am all in on a running clock.

I think especially if the score is getting out of hand, you start running that clock down even during stoppages. like 10-0 for context for people wondering why it was so lopsided. Half of the Flames roster was filled with NHL players. They started the game with Jacob Markstrom in net. Jonathan Huberdo, Lias Lindholm, Yeager, Sharon Govich. They played their first game together as a line. Nassum Cadry was there.

There was a bunch of NHL players in that lineup. Matthew Coronado got a hat trick of the young player. They signed out of Harvard late last year. Went through the World Championships with Team USA. They played against an AHL roster. It was basically the Calgary Flames versus the Abbotsford Canucks, essentially. That's why it was so lopsided. And if it was any less, I'm convinced considering what happened with the Flames last year, it would be a talking point.

But I think in that situation, I would have appreciated, you know, part way through the game, they look at the score and they say, guys, let's wrap it up. Let's go home. It's a preseason game. There's nothing more we need to add from this. It's 10-0. You clearly see the rosters as they are. There's no point in hanging out here longer than we need to. Running clock.

That is what I think should be implemented for preseason games if they get out of hand. Maybe even for all preseason games too, because at the end of the day, like, it's preseason. And I get it the fans. They get the experience. Have it kind of like a regular game. But if you're going to have games like this, go like that. Running clock. Calgary wins by 10 goals on Sunday,

and you would think off the top of your head, well, that was the biggest beat down in sports, but then the Miami Dolphins won a game by 50, 5-0 points against Denver. What's harder, Julian, to win a hockey game by 10 goals or to win an NFL game by 50 points? What's harder? Like, wow, I think it's winning a hockey game. I think it's the 70 points.

That's not something that's been done since, like, the 60s. I don't know. Like, I think like, 70. Okay. You know how many times in the NHL? There's been a 10-0 game in the salary cap shootout era? It's happened one time.

And it was Columbus and Montreal a few years ago. That's wild. That was the exact game I was thinking of. And it was about to be like, I've seen a game like that. And like that surely there's been other ones. That's the exact game I was thinking of. Prior to that,

the last time there was a 10-0-and I'm talking about a game in which one team scored at least 10 and the other team scored exactly zero prior to that 1996 Flames Lightning. Wow. Yeah. The 95-96 Tampa Bay Lightning, they lost two games that season 10 to nothing. That's crazy. The same season.

That's crazy. That is insane. They somehow made the playoffs, I think, that year. Imagine you lose two games. Yeah, 95, 96. They lost two games 10 to nothing that year. And still made the playoffs. Boy, that would have been like-

96 roster. Who is on that roster? That would have been like Brian Bradley. Boy, after Brian Bradley, I couldn't tell you. Hammerlick. Brian Bradley is on that roster. Robin Hammerlick was there. I'm trying to look at some...

Wow, there are a lot of names I don't recognize. But they made the playoffs. Igor Ullanoff. Rob Zaminer, who a lot of Canadian fans of the 90s will remember. He was on that team Kada team that went to Nagano, right? Rob Zaminor. He was on the original Nagano team, yeah.

Our producer Chris is telling us that Brian Bellows. Former 50 goals score. And Enrico Sicone, who's a politician now. Oh, Enrico Chikoni. Chikone, sorry. He's on the demon Landkow's there. Wow, this is, what a list. I don't know.

Yeah, they lost two games 10 to nothing and still made the playoffs. That's insane. That is nuts. But I still think it's football, man. I still think the fact that you got to go out. I mean, I can understand, you know, putting up points to some degree of easiness to it, but it's very difficult to play football. considering the physical contact of that sport,

and to put up 70 points on a team that is trying. And they put up 20 points. Russell Wilson, even if it was only by like a yard, through more passing yards than Tuotonga valloa yesterday. And they still lost by 50 points. That's difficult to do. You have to have a bad defense to really allow that. I don't know.

I think that's difficult to score 70 points. But I'm talking about the discrepancy in points. Like, fifth, like, boy, like, losing by 10 goals is almost impossible in the NHL. Yeah, losing by 10 goals is, okay, that, that is a ball. But losing by 50 in an NFL game, that doesn't happen. They're both. That does not happen. They're both.

They're both very difficult. I think it's harder in football, but, like, hockey's right there. Like 10, nothing or losing by 50 points. I think even Rick Tockeet at the end of that, Kentucky game, was. He was like, I feel like Sean Payton. Yeah, he comes out. That's the first thing he said. I feel like Sean Peyton or I feel like the Broncos head coach.

Yeah. It is, it is tough to. What would you do if you were coaching a team and whatever level and you lose a game 10 to nothing? Do you say anything to your players after the game or do you just say, you know what, gang? Let's just flush that one. We all know what happened. Like, what's the point of saying anything?

It depends on the effort. It depends on the quality. Like, if I have a roster like what the Canucks had the other night, there's nothing you can really say. It's an HL team going up against the NHL team. Maybe there's not nothing you could say, but you have to understand going into a game like that. You are going to be overmatched.

And you just try to focus on the little things in that game. It's a regular season game. And you have all your guys there. and you get curb stomped by a team, like I walk into the locker room, practice tomorrow, 9 a.m., whatever time. I don't know if I'm doing full backskate, but you all know what needs to be done.

I don't need to yell or anything like that because you've already been embarrassed enough. What more am I going to do yelling at you? Man. So, okay. So that, look, yeah, I, yeah, exactly. What are you going to say? There's nothing to be.

There's nothing you can really say to that. Like, there's nothing. There's, like, you lose 10 nothing in a game. And again, I already mentioned with the Knoch says they are. That's different. But if you are a team with grown individuals, you lose 10 nothing, used by 10 goals in a game.

There's a lack of effort that has to be shown there that, like, I'm not happy with. But I don't know if I feel I need to be that guy to tell you that you played like crap. If I have to do that after that, that's a problem. That's a massive problem. You should know. Dolphins put up 70 points in the NFL on Sunday.

That, of course, was not the most talked about thing that happened on NFL Sunday. That's Taylor Swift showing up at the Chiefs game, cheering on Travis Kelsey. And the reason why I bring that up is not to talk about that, even though it's a phenomenal talking point. And I would love to dive into it. But I want to share my experience with the listeners being around the Ottawa senators when when Kerry Underwood started dating Mike Fisher. Yes. Because I got to tell you, man, it's when an A-lister starts hanging around your team,

it gets different. It's like, like, it's just different. Like they would, they would sometimes, you know, Carrie Underwood would take the same kind of media elevator that, you know, and it's a private elevator, right? Like, so, you know, average normal, regular ticket buying fans, don't get on the same elevator as we do. But the amount of security,

like when Carrie Underwood was in the building was totally different. Like we couldn't even, sometimes you'd go to get on the media elevator, like, yeah, you're not getting on with Carrie Underwood. Yeah, you're not getting on with Carrie Underwood.

Oh, my God. Did you ever get like Starstruck when you saw her? And I saw her a bunch of times. No, I wouldn't say. I wouldn't, you know what, it was funny. I was at an event. The senators had a charitable event and I brought my wife.

And it was when Mike and Kerry were dating. And I knew Mike from when the time Ottawa drafted him, I always had a great relationship. And I told my wife, I said, listen, like, Carrie and Mike are standing right there.

Do you want me to go up and I'll introduce you? You want to take a picture with Carrie Underwood? And my wife chickened out. She was too scared. And literally, I want to say like two months later, he got traded to Nashville. And that was in,

I'm like, I told my, you just, why did you chicken out? I was like, I would have made the introduction. for you. It would have been nice and smooth.

No dice. No, she got too scared. That's crazy. Like, have you ever been, have you ever been, like,

totally, uh, star struck or in awe of a celebrity, like at a, either at a sporting event or like, kind of you've crossed paths with them? Um,

oh, man, I've tried to think about this in terms of celebrity that I was just like completely in awe of, I mean, meeting Larry, I mean, interviewing Larry King was crazy. Like, I didn't know how long I could, like, sit next to this dude and ask him questions. CNN suspenders Larry King? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He was wearing suspenders. He was. He was. I don't think he doesn't, I don't think that man owns a belt. I think he owned, I think he only owned, he only owned suspenders. I think that's it. But, like, I'm trying to think if there's a. a celebrity I've ever felt like I was just completely like shook like I don't know like I don't get I don't get like I don't I don't feel that way with NHL players I don't feel that way with with athletes it's cool to like point the amount be like oh yeah like this dude is here but like a mega star so it would have to be like a really big megastar like if I'm just hanging out like could you imagine being at an NHL game say like it's like Ottawa down say we get to travel like to Dallas or something.

And, like, you're in the hallway waiting to talk to someone on this end. And, like, Deonce, like, walks past. Like, she's, I know she's Houston, but, like, she's in Dallas for something. Like, something's going on. Dallas stars ownership, plotting something crazy and, like, Deionse's ownership. Like, I would be, like, I know I mentioned the senators in this, but, like, I would be completely, I know for sure. I'd be in all.

I'd be like, whoa, like, what is going on here? And maybe it has to do with the context of where we'd be at in that scenario. but I think it would take a lot for me to be super, super shook. I got on to an elevator. If you've covered enough Rangers games at MSG over the years, and I, you know, I have. I have a mystery after this. Okay, you likely would have crossed paths with Spike Lee.

And, you know, I got into an elevator with Spike Lee, but it was a jammed elevator, right? So I, I didn't say anything because I'm like, man, this guy is probably sick of running in people. I was like, this is really cool. because I think of, I always think of the Reggie Miller MSG stuff with Spike Lee back in the day.

That was really cool. And you know the other thing I think about with Carrie Underwood, dating Mike Fisher? You know at the exact same time that Carrie Underwood was dating Mike Fisher in Ottawa? Yeah. Mike Comrie was playing for Ottawa

and he was dating Hillary Duff. I remember that. And there was at least one game in which Carrie Underwood and Hillary Duff were in Ottawa at the same time watching, Like, it was surreal. But the center of, like, pop culture right there was auto.

Like, well before Ryan Reynolds and Snoop Dog were kind of loosely, like, kind of sends adjacent, we had Kerry Underwood and Lizzie McGuire. Man, in the house. One of the best Disney channel shows, Lizzie McGuire, part of my childhood. That was great. My MSG story, when I was in a second year, I was in a second year. my graduating year of high school, and we did a New York trip. And we had the opportunity, so like some of us, had the opportunity to go to watch a New York Knicks game at Madison

Square Garden. They were playing against the Dallas Mavericks. We were up in this upper bowl at the top of the arena. And obviously, there's going to be celebrities. At different points, they're showing all these random celebrities in the crowd. They show a couple Rangers players. Henry Glunkwist is there. He's sitting courtside. You can obviously spot Spike Lee. He's wearing orange and blue. Like he's easy to spot. At one point, they start playing Justin Bieber's music.

And they show Justin Bieber on the Jumbotron. This is 2011. So Justin Bieber shows up. This is like baby still being played in rotation. They show Justin Bieber on the Jumbotron. Everybody in the arena booed him. Like normally you see celebrity, everyone's applauding and clapping.

He was like, oh, he's there. Everybody booed Justin Bieber. I couldn't believe what was happening. I was looking around. There were teachers with our group who were cupping hands over their mouth and booing Justin Bieber. He's like my age, I think.

So, like, he would have been like a teenager. Like this kid who's just sitting, court side enjoying this basketball game, getting boot to shreds. The very next day on ESPN's part in the interruption, they had a segment. They talked about Bieber getting boot. That's how big of a deal that was.

Man, Bieber at one point years ago, there was also a crazy rumor that he was interested in buying Ottawa. Like this was well before this current news cycle where the team got sold. It's like four years ago people were saying Justin Bieber kicked the tires on Ottawa. What is it with celebrities in the Ottawa senators? It's so weird. It's the most random, like the sands are the most anonymous organization in so many You wouldn't think that at some point that these celebrities like Carrie Underwood and

Hillary Duff and Snoop Dogg and Ryan Reynolds, Bieber. Do you remember years ago? All you have to do is Google this, but Rihanna wore a, like, randomly wore an Ottawa senator's like jersey dress. The most iconic photo in franchise history is Rihanna wearing that over. jersey. She found a way to style and make it look dope. Remember that? That is the most like iconic photo in franchise history

bar none. Yes. So why is that? I don't know why there's been so many celebrities. And no one knows why she wore that jersey. It's not even like it has like an R or anything on it. It just has this oh and she looks amazing in it. That would be the one. That would be a deep dive story I'd love to get into. Like if you ever had access

to find out how and why did you wear that? Like what is the car? Where is that dress? We got to figure out a way to get you access to Rihanna's people. Yeah. Yeah. But seriously, but like that's the cool thing about hockey jerseys, man. Like, I get hockey is where it is in the big four of sports.

But getting to style a hockey jersey, you know, either you're wearing it like the way Rihanna's wearing it or you wear it and you have a hoodie underneath. There's something cool about being able to rock a jersey like that. the weird kind of oversized feel. It has its place in Hype Beast style culture. Like, it's so cool that, I mean, Snoop Dogg is another example too with the Pittsburgh. Oh, the Gin and Juice Penguins era, right? Yeah, yeah. That was so good.

Absolutely. Come on. Like, I wish, I wish we were able to take more advantage of the fact that a dope fit on a Friday night, you're going to a house party, especially in the fall when it's chilly outside, you get a hoodie, you get a dope jersey over it. It's cool. Like it's dope.

But it doesn't matter if you don't support the team. You just think it's cool. Like, I wish the NHL just did more work in terms of tapping into the fashion into the stylings of stuff. I get, we're getting players who are starting to realize style rankings exist now. But like I,

that needs to be ramped up. The gear needs to be better. It needs to be dope. Because there was, There was a time when it was. And it needs to be. We got to also mention the Minnesota Wild third jerseys that were released over the weekend. Those are so nice.

So sharp. It's a sweet example. I would love a jersey like that. It needs to be better. And we need to capitalize on celebrities wearing that stuff when we see it. Absolutely. You know what? We're talking fashion.

We're talking hockey. We've just set this up perfectly to set the table for Shana Goldman. Right? Dang. Like the two worlds colliding here. Right? Perfect guest. and perfect guest to drop in on a new segment idea I have, okay?

Tell us, Ian. Tell us your idea. All right, Julian, as we kick off a new season here of the, you know, the Monday pod, you know, we're going to come in with a new vibe. And I got our new schick. Our stick is we kind of criticize somebody in one episode and then we lure them into the podcast for the next episode. It's a proven ratings winner. That's what we kind of, we didn't really drag Shana Goldman last week,

but we were curious about Carter Verhege's placement, right? Fair to say? Fair to say we were curious about where Verhegey. The player tears. We absolutely were. And that's why we have Shana here, because look, we got to talk about this, man. Like Carter Verhegey, more than fine as a player,

has come up huge for the first. Florida Panthers in the playoffs last summer. Why is he ranked in a higher player tier than, Ian, do you want, do you want to add all this, but like, I just, why is he there? Yes. And I'm going to say the new name of this segment is, explain yourself. Explain yourself. Jane of Goldman, explain yourself.

We love Cardiffor Hagee. Yes, but I like it, too, but like I don't know if he's a tier. No, no, no, no, we don't like him. We love Carter for Hagee. That's our favorite little analytics darling. Yeah, well, look, okay, well, everyone is deserving of love. But why is he in tier three when you have other players like a Maddie Baneers or a Jesper Brad or Kyle Connor or Pierre Lue Dubois or Eilers in tier four, Philip Forsberg?

Like, why are they ranked lower than Carter Verhegey? So I think for some of those players, like you can look at each of the ones you named and pick out of flaw, right? Like Pierluc de Bois, there's definitely some lapses in his game. And he's a very good player, right? and he's someone that I could see rising up the rankings. Mattie veneers has that star power potential that the Seattle Cracken need, and we all love him for that, right?

There's so much there that I won't be surprised if he's in tier three when we redo this midseason and tier two next year. I think that's like absolutely a thing. Nikolai Yalers, it's kind of hard to move him up because we think so highly of him, but his coaches literally never do and never want to give him the minutes. So, you know, we have to take all that into consideration. But with Carter Verhagie, I think that there's a consistency to his game that's been really underrated. There's a reason why he was this, you know, Cam Lawrence under the radar pick for the Florida Panthers when they signed him when he left Tampa Bay.

And he's proven it every year below the surface. Now, the interesting thing about him is his point totals, you know, look pretty good, right? You look it on the surface and see, well, that's impressive. The fact is, they're generally five on five points. He doesn't get that power play opportunity. He still crushes it. And he's someone that when you start digging below the surface, you see he's like, he's legitimately one of the best players in transition in the entire league. You know, he can stand up

with the Braden points and the Connor McDavid's, and sure he doesn't have the same finishes them. But, you know, he has his role. It's different. He's not expected to be that tier one, tier two player. Here he is someone that is just constantly going. He's such an engine for the Panthers and such an underrated part of him. And there's a completeness to his game, a versatility to his game. And there's a clutchness to his game that we can't forget either. This is not someone who wiltz when the, you know, pressure rises. You look at the past two years. And this is someone who just absolutely crushes it. And, you know, when we were doing this, we talked to a couple team sources. And one even was like, Cardover Hagee. Like, that is not a name you expect to be here. It's not where he

was last year either. He was in Tier 4. And then once they started digging in there, like, wait, I get it. Because, you know, all of it starts stacking up that ability that he has, which is why we think so highly of him. And sure, it could drop. But it just feels like year after year he's making the conversation to be one of those, you know, top complimentary players. for that franchise star. He's not the franchise star. He's never going to be that. And that's totally okay,

but he's going to be that leading supporting player. And, you know, Shinn, he busted out for 42 goals last year. Like, is that good? So what I, yeah, yeah, I think that's, I, look, Julian and I can agree, that's good. What's your realistic expectation, like, is 42 again realistic? Is it 30, 35?

Like, where should we set our expectations for a guy like Verhegey this year? Well, we know he's going to be bona fide top six usage, right? there's no doubt about that in Florida. And generally speaking, it's going to be with someone like Alexander Barclow, who he absolutely totally clicks with. And Barcoff is such a good playmaker, and Verhege can finish those chances, or Verhege can rush into the zone and create a zone.

So I think that there's a good foundation for him to score. But we also saw the Panthers kind of switch things up, and sometimes he was on that other, I don't even want to call it the second line, because Matthew Kachach's on it, that one B line, that like 1.2 line. I don't know which one's one, which one's two. It doesn't, it's tough to say if Verhege's on it with Kachuk,

does that become the first line? I don't really know. But we saw him play there too, and I think that's a great opportunity for him to put up up because Kachuk has the finishing ability, so we can see for Hagey set him up. And Kachuk has, you know, the passing and playmaking ability to set him up. I think 40 is going to be tough if you're not getting power play one ice time. Like, I don't know how you can keep hitting those levels without that opportunity. And even when the Panthers made adjustments, generally speaking, it wasn't him going on that top unit.

You know, Sam Bennett got the looks ahead of him and Sam Warrant. Reinhardt generally stays there. So it will be interesting to see how the season goes if they do move out a top player. Maybe someone like Lundell, I think is going to get prioritized over him as well. But I still think this is someone that's a bona fide 30 plus goal score. Like if he hit 35, 36, I'm not going to be surprised at all. I just think 40 is pretty high. But then again, the rise in scoring, who's to say what the new levels of normalcy are going to be this year?

I still want to, you know, make an argument for Kyle Connor, who did have a down year, but still ended last season with more points than Carter Verhege. And look, 42 goals are pretty good. Kyle Conner scored 47 in his season. He is consistently one of the most underrated goal scores in the national hockey league. And I still think they should be at least closer or at least on the same tier. I'm still going to put up for Kyle Connor, who is very underrated in the league. This is not even a question.

This is just a statement for me. I'm putting that out there for that. But I would love to know in talking to execs and other scouts about, other players kind of around that threshold. What was it like just putting that all together and hearing their thoughts on how you've ranked everyone in the tier list? It's interesting when you have the opinions agree with you, right? Because you can like pat yourself on the back and like, hey, we did something right.

But it's always interesting when you have differing opinions. And for us, you know, like for Dom and I, we're two nerds. And Sean really balances the line between, you know, non-nerdiness and nerdiness for us. So I think that kind of helps. Oh, he's a nerd. Stop it, Sean. It really is a nerd. He's like a secret nerd, I feel like.

He's a nerd. I want to hear this whole thing from Sean about he's trying to be cooler than Dom or Saina. He's a nerd. And there's another role of being a nerd, but he's a nerd. Don't act cooler than you are, Sean Gentilly. Please go ahead. But we're talking to people with different backgrounds too, right?

We're talking to analysts. We're talking to more traditional coaches and executives. So it's a really nice blend and it gives you something to think about, you know, you'll talk to someone about Tate Thompson, right? And they help put it in perspective. I think one of the quotes was something like the fun of Tage Thompson eclipses, the actual ability sometimes. And I like that it gives you something to think about there because you think of his defensive

game and how it lacks. You know, there were definitely a lot of conversations about certain players that everybody, no matter of their background, no matter of their role, was, you know, drawn to like a Queen Hughes. He was really one that sparked a ton of conversation because there was a lot of contemplation on how to sort those top defenders. And we were back and forth on it ourselves. So it's always interesting to get that because you really do get,

you don't have to just buy into everything everyone says, right? But you can take it in stride and just figure out how these players really should be viewed now and in the future. And that's the thing. It's not just where they are right now. It's where we expect them to be this year. You know, I'm wondering if we can create a fun bet here. Okay.

Julian seems like he's on team Kyle Connor. Shana, you're clearly team Carter Hagee. Why don't we make this interesting? And the two of you, we do something fun. I just, I'm the neutral arbitrator here. Okay. Whoever scores more goals this season, maybe there's something fun on the line. All right.

Goal or points? Well, let's determine that. I feel like points is the way to go here. Because I feel like Connor definitely has the goal scoring edge, even when he dips. And like, for he, I think, can pick it up and even that out. like, hey, I'd like to see if Kyle Connor can, you know, earn some more assists this year. I'd like to see him round out his game. I'd like to see him learn how to play one shred of defense.

I am all about it. I like Kyle O'Connor, so I'm in. I'm cool with points. I'm cool with kind of rounded out and making it fair for both sides here. Let's say whichever of the two players gets the most points at the end of the year, all right, this is the tricky part for me. I need to be more creative with bets. I'm not sure. I know.

I'm not either. We ask the listeners to come up with something. Maybe Shana has to make, although Julian doesn't strike me as a scrunchy guy, you know. Yeah, I make some unbelievable stuff. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, we'll ask the listener. Shana does make incredible stuff and you should check out her, the cool clothes and scrunchy stuff that she makes. It's really cool.

Yeah. We'll figure out something. You'll make you a nice patchwork, custom Carter Verhegey sweatshirt. Maybe the Florida Panthers can donate us, you know, some stuff in the Winnipeg Jets. kick us some of their old merch that's just sitting there. Yeah. We can make something cool out of it. And I'll become the ultimate Kyle Connor fan girl or you can become the ultimate

Cardiff Hagee fanboy. Who's to say? Yeah, maybe we just buy the, uh, we have to buy like the jersey of like the player who gets more points. Yeah. We just have to like wear it on like a show or something. I mean, our stuff's on YouTube now. So like I could wear like a Florida Panthers, Carter for Hagee jersey and Shanea, I, I don't

know, maybe on the next like too many men episode, you wear a Kyle Connor Winnipeg Jets jersey. And maybe it's of the, maybe it's of the alternate jerseys too. I don't know for doing, uh, with any of the alternate jerseys they have this year. That might be the bet, but we'll take any submission from anyone else. We'll get each other nice little foam fingers. Yes. Yes. I love it.

You know, Shane, one of the other thing, obviously you, you guys drop the, you know, the, the, the player tears. And that's always a great conversation point. But so too are the standings predictions that you and Sean Gentile and Dom also put together. And basically since, you know, for the last week or so, we've been checking out the site and every day there's a new team. And the goal is if you're a fan base, you don't want to wake up and see your team. Oh, man, today's the day. Today's Nashville's day. You know, recently we've seen Buffalo.

I think a lot of Sabres fans are a little rattled. Detroit fans, little rattled. as you look at this so far, and real quick for the sake of the listeners, it's been San Jose, Montreal, Chicago, Anaheim, Philly, Columbus, St. Louis, Washington, Arizona, Detroit, Buffalo, Nashville. So in order of kind of where they're going to finish worse to best, has there been one team where the fan bases really pushed back and you've really felt that sort of anger from where they're,

they've landed here in the model? there's this one team and called the St. Loose Blues and they hate Dom and Sean but especially Dom and his model. Oh my God. So that one, you definitely feel the brunt of it

and it was funny. I think Sean, if you take the primary role writing on that one so if you do like the strengths and weaknesses which is the biggest chunk of it, you get the first byline and Sean got the first byline and it doesn't even matter

because the commenters are already like oh, here's Dom and his model again. projecting our team to be bad, but it's like, sorry, your team is, that is, even with the most, you know, even with everybody hitting their ceilings in St. Louis, even if Robert Thomas bounces back, which we anticipate them to do, even if Jordan Cairo takes a step forward, which we anticipate him to do, you know, in Buchanavich being consistent and things like that, that team is very flawed. Like, they really didn't do much this summer and some of it's because it's self-inflicted from management signing, I don't know, five defensemen to have some sort of

no movement clause at the same time. Like, who knew that would be a bad idea and bite you at a certain point? But, you know, it's, that is, that is a them problem. And it felt like, it felt like they were the team along with Washington that could have really been interesting this summer because they accumulated so many assets at the deadline. And when you have numerous first round picks, you have all these extra picks, you can go two routes and you can just take the picks and, you know, replenish your prospect pool and build for the future.

but it felt like both those teams were kind of primed to go, we're retooling on the fly and we're going to do this quickly. So you flip those assets for, you know, bigger and better things. The Blues did it the year before they won the Stanley Cup and it worked for them. But neither one really impressed with that. So those are the two for me that it's like a little bit interesting. But Jordan Kairu is supposed to score 50 goals this year if you hear Robert Thomas speak from the mountaintops. I mean, listen, that would be great.

He has so much skill, so much flash in his game, so much ability. he's someone that, you know, you really can slot anywhere in your lineup in theory, but there are definite flaws there. And the coaches have taken that out on him. When he has had defensive lapses, they've had no problem throwing him onto the fourth line and throwing him into the bottom six and limiting his usage. And now the Blues have two different assistant coaches. So that's always to me one of the most interesting things because I feel like we don't know

how good assistant coaches are. We really don't. You know, we can see some specialists, you know, like a Bradshaw, I think we can all say that is a power kill specialist. We all know the defensive, you know, upside he can bring to a team. But generally speaking, we don't know enough. So when you see a team, keep the head coach and completely change out their assistance, it makes for an interesting conversation.

And the devils are a really good example of that last year. So we'll see if the Blues can be that. Maybe they'll have something to bring to the table because I don't think Craig Brew is the most, like, innovative coach. We'll see if they have answers to get Kyru to that level. But 50 goals, that's a lot of scoring from someone who hasn't shown he, can consistently throw it all together yet. Oh, are you going to put him over, if he scores 50 goals or is he going above, he's not going above Cardover Hakey.

I know the answer to that question. Well, that's the thing. Like, if he could jump out and be that franchise cornerstone of the blues, they need somebody to be the guy, you know, and it's okay. If you, if your team like the Seattle Cracket and you go, we're not going for the guy just yet, and they know, open years will eventually be that. Maybe Shane Wright can be that. You know, the blues strength when they last made the playoffs was they had 9, 20 goals

scores. They had one of the best top nines in the league, and you can get by with that, but you look at St. Louis right now and go, well, that depth has kind of been chipped away at and really evaporated there, and then no one's stepping up to be the guy. And I don't know if that guy is Kairu. I think you can have a really nice one-to-bunch of Kairun Thomas, although they both have the same defensive flaw, so you really need someone good to round them out. Maybe Abuchenevich is that kind of guy. It's going to be interesting. I just don't know if he's going to like emerge as the guy or a complimentary guy and if he's going to do enough to push into that third tier, but he has a skill set to do it. The Buffalo Sabres are really interesting to me, Shana, and the model spits out that they're

likely going to be on the outside looking in at the playoffs. And right now 87 points, about a 20-ish percent chance to make the playoffs. Were you surprised? Look, there's a lot of hype and hope and optimism in Buffalo, and I think that fan base deserves it. But boy, it felt like that kind of of the bottle was a cold slap in the face of reality. Yeah. So I view the Sabres, the Senators and the Red Wings and it's like little Atlantic disrupt their bucket. They are the up and coming teams. They are the teams that can knock someone else out of the playoffs. And last year, if I remember correctly, a lot of the hype was around Detroit and Ottawa because they'd busier off seasons and the Sabres and rightfully so. And if I have the right, I think the model

had them as Ottawa finishing first, Detroit, then Buffalo. And obviously, Buffalo finished above, you know, the other two last year. The model is a little more cautious with them this year, and there's reason for it. Their defense was terrible last year for all the offense they had. And this was a team that was top five in the league in scoring goals. And, you know, below the surface didn't always match what they finished. But that's okay if you can keep it at a high level, which they did. You just need to round out the other elements of your game in case, you know, the goal

scoring started to slip or something like that. And the defense is a problem. It's a problem on the blue line. It's a problem with the forward group. And they don't have the most sound goal tending to support that. And while we all have really high hopes for Levi, I think everybody was excited when he joined the league. You're like, hey, do you want to bury this guy in his first year? Because if they opt that that the NHL is not the best level for him, there aren't many options behind him to have that security and goals. So you really do need to take defensive strides. And the players they brought in aren't the most high end. Connor Clifton and Eric Johnson are serviceable, but they don't scream like, oh my God, contender status. But it'll be interesting, see how it all works out because their

entrance is going to knock someone like Yokohariu down to a third pair roll, which is more fitting for him. And they bring in, you know, the tools that this team's missing, guys who are better at puck retrievals because you have someone like power that's so good with his zone exit. So if you have someone that can do the dirty work in the defensive zone and move the puck up so he can, you know, spring for transition, like those are things that are really going to work out well for them. the potential's there for them to surprise, just like they did last year. I won't be surprised if they end up being the, you know, Atlantic team to finish first. Won't be surprised if they're of the three disruptors. You know, I won't be surprised if, you know, Ottawa comes out ahead of them,

which is what we're projecting right now. But it's going to take a lot of individual growth. It's going to take a lot of, you know, team-wide growth. And because they didn't go as splashy, it's going to take a lot of coaching. And I think that the coaching staff has proven to be really good there. So we're going to see how they go from here on how they stabilize this group and kind of balance out their game as much as they can with this defense. And I think as the team gets better in that respect, you're going to see players like Dahlene show that, hey, I can keep that elite level. And Tage Thompson, hey, the weaknesses in my games are kind of masked a little bit. And someone like, cousins jumping out is that like really, really, really, really high end to see like that it's all

there. All the pieces are like getting there. But I think it just needs like something to click. And then I'll have that nice like trickle down effect. What about Nashville this year? I remember looking at them near the end of last season, they were selling off assets and they looked like a team that was just selling into not making the playoffs. And they almost made a run of it. They eliminated the Calgary Flames from contention

that big shootout, and they almost made the playoffs despite having I don't want to say a bare-bones roster, but they sold off assets. And now they have Ryan O'Reilly and Luke Shen. They're a really confusing team. I know we're in the Barry Trotch GM era,

but they're a really confusing team. What do you make of the Nashville Predators? Yeah, they're really interesting because, like, they have the pieces to end up in the middle, which is where they've been the last few years, and that's exactly what you don't want. You know, UC Soros is one of the best goaltenders in the league. For the last few years, he has dragged that team into the postseason, almost into the postseason and into the postseason, right? Like, he has done all that and more. He's stealing 12 games a season, something like that.

His quality start percentage is, like, through the route. Like, he is someone that is just absolutely doing everything, but getting up and scoring goals. goals. And last year post-deadline, they sold off those pieces. And all of a sudden, they had this spark that I don't think anyone expected. And it was guys like Tommy Novak that were really shaking it up. Like, Bill Forsberg was hurt. And you had these young forwards emerging like, hey, we can put up points. And they're doing that with a coach that's super defensive. So it's a new vibe for them. And I feel like having Soros and having Yosie and having Forsberg does make this challenging for a general manager, who does seem to acknowledge this is

going to be a long process. But do you want to try it? You have a core. element at each position. And for two of those positions, you have two of the best, right? Romaniosi is one of the best defensemen in the league and U.S.S.R.S. is one of the best goals in the league. And Forzberg's still high and forward. So you have a really good foundation. And they're going to have a couple more years that you can try to go for it. So it's this awkward balancing act in a way. And the fact that they went for the veterans, which it does seem like is very culture based, right? We saw them move out pieces and say, we're changing the culture here. You're like, okay. So you're going to be very like mid. That's okay. Sure. Right? Like, you look

at the piece and you're just like, that's, that's, that's a choice. But it does seem like they acknowledge that it needs to be the young player stepping up in these roles. You don't want one of those young players of Parsons having to be the one C and take on those minutes. You want someone like Ryan O'Reilly to take that load off them so they can thrive in their appropriate roles. They seem to acknowledge that you can teach defensive structure. You need someone that's going to bring that offensive edge. And here's a coach that they think can do it. So we'll see how it goes and how they approach the deadline, because that's what I'm most curious about. Like, I feel like they're a team that could surprise

and be a little bit better than we expect and kind of be in that playoff position. But is that going to be enough for them to say, yeah, let's go forward or they're just going to keep being proactive at the deadline and go, it doesn't matter. This is an experience. If we go for it, great, wonderful.

But if not, we're just going to keep going along with the process. Like, I really don't know what the direction is going to be because we're hearing all the right things. Then you see the moves and it's a little more perplexing. Shana, before we let you go, Julian and I, when we opened up the pod, Julian covered a 10-0-0-0-1-0-Colary beat Vancouver 10-0-0. Here's my question for you. If you're a fan and, Chena, you're at the game, you're at a pre-season game and it's 10-9-like, do you stay to the final buzzer?

Or like, at what point are you checking out? Are you leaving to beat traffic? Are you just, it's a pre-season game. At what point do you say, I'm done? That's a tough one. Yeah, like if you know there's going to be a ton of traffic. Like I know for like a baseball game, I'd be like, I'm out. I don't need to see the rest of this.

Like I've been here long enough. Even like any other sporting event, I feel like I've left early. I don't think I've actually ever left the hockey game early. Even when it's like, you know, and I've gone to games where it was, you know, casually going to Islander games and I legitimately didn't care about the results, but you're just going like for the vibes. I maybe left. No, I lied.

I definitely left one early. I didn't care. So I think for a preseason game, I would probably fall into that same bucket of, I don't need to stay here for this. Like, if you're looking at a train schedule and there's no option other than staying, at that point, I'm probably like, I'd rather sit here than in the train station. But otherwise, 10 nothing. I don't care if my team's winning or losing.

I'm probably still like, I've seen enough here. It's preseason. Like, I'm done. But, I mean, if the vibes are good and you're having a good time, I guess you can try to like spin that into staying the whole time. That's it. That is a tough one because like you want, right? If you're there and you're seeing 10 goals, you're probably like, I want to see 12.

I want to see 13. I want to see how far this can go. But like logic would also be saying it's preseason. Go home. Would you throw your hat if a hat trick occurred in preseason? Do you, would you throw a hat for a hat trick in regular season? Where do you stand on that etiquette? Hmm.

I've never done that because I generally don't wear hats games because they conflict with my glasses. and these are things I have to think about. If it was a hat that preseason, though, probably not. Regular season, if I were someone that was like super pumped up about a game, maybe, like if it's like a hat that you just buy on like 47 brand that you can get of replacement up to, like you might want to. But I feel like the vibes would have to be right. Like I'd have to be like the most neutral spectator going on a game in like Nashville.

And it's someone like Roman Yosey has a hat trick. You couldn't see that coming and the crowd's going. wild, like I would want to be in on that moment because like I would be at that game. Like I wouldn't want to be there like in a professional capacity. I don't want to be sitting there like as a fan watching that game just like neutral. I don't care about the results, but I'm having a good time and like the vibes are there and the energy. It's like infectious.

Maybe then I would throw a hat. I have to think about that. I'm going to report back. I feel like I need to just start exploring arenas and going with friends and just having the best time and going along with it and just seeing what happens and bring a hat every time. You know what? You mentioned a hat trick in Nashville, and this is a legitimate, this isn't me being facetious. This is me actually wondering, has anybody thrown a cowboy hat onto the ice after a hat trick?

I'm not sure it's happened. I would hope so. Do we know that for sure? Do the predators sell, like, cute little cowboy hats now that I come to think of it? Like, that feels like a missed marketing opportunity, if not. There's no way they don't. They have to, like, imagine, like, a navy blue predator's cowboy hat with, like, the yellow logo. and then maybe some, like, bejeweled fringe coming off of that?

Like, that's a vibe. I'm not a thing. You're not throwing that on the ice. No. After a Romaniosi hat truck. No. No, I'm getting a strap for it and, like, having it as, like, you know, like a bag. If you take it off, like, that is the focal point of my outfit.

You're not taking that out of my cold dead hands. Hmm. Okay. The Predators, at least six years ago, sold like a light up cowboy hat that has Smashville, I think, is part of their, I'm not sure. Yeah. I think they definitely have like a cowboy hat thing. It had one.

They had a foam hat too a couple years ago or at least actually no, not a couple years ago. They still have it in stock. It's for like 35 bucks a Nashville Predators foam cowboy hat. I think that they need to upgrade this and get with it and get really fashionable. Like this is a missed opportunity. It's not surprising. The NHL is like the worst merch out of like any sport. But this is something we need.

Like that would be so cool to have. See, this is why I need. I need teams to just call me and I'll help. Yes. I want to, I just, I just want to help. Like, right now I'm looking at, like, so much of, like, the old gear, like the 2000s and the 90s. And it's like, it's such a vibe. It's so cool.

It's so bold. And now everything's so boring. So we need cowboy hats in Nashville that are, like, so fashionable, so cool to wear that you want to wear it. Like, you're not just out of game. You're just, like, out partying in the city and you want to wear it. The Shana Goldman Collection. Let's do it. Let's go.

Let's do it. I'll collapse. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Hey, this was great. Thank you for being the first guest on the segment. Explain yourself.

That was a ton of fun. Thanks for dropping by. We love all the work that you do with the athletic because your stuff is so well researched. It's always opinionated and it's always great for a great fodder for us in the podcast. So thanks for dropping by and I'm sure we'll have you on again real soon. Thank you. I'm honored to be the first guest. of this segment.

All right, there we go. Great visit, great new segment idea. But this is we're workshopping. Explain yourself. Julian is being tasked with trying to line up Mike Babcock for next week's guest as, Explain yourself. Yeah. The weird thing about the, there's a phone joke to be made.

There's a phone joke to be made there. I don't know if I'm the person to do it with Mike Babcock. But great, great to have Shane a buy. And it is fantastic to watch the, the reaction from their team preview pieces, right? And Shana mentioned St. Louis fans are not happy. I don't think Buffalo fans are feeling like the love is there. Detroit fans are feeling like that.

And I'm sure as the week plays out, there's going to be some teams that are in that. Because this is the bubble point, right? Nashville, kind of Buffalo, Detroit. Like these are teams that you could make an argument. They make the plan. I'm sure Ottawa is going to be in there. Probably Calgary's in there, right?

Like these are teams that, hey, if everything goes well, Maybe they make the playoffs. If everything goes poorly, guess what? You're going to be sitting around 20th, 23rd, whatever, overall. I'm curious about Calgary because it feels as if in talking to people around the hockey world, it seems like more and more people are a bit more favorable to them. And I think people are still willing to give the benefit of the doubt to their cast. But even Buffalo 2 and Ottawa, like I'm a bit surprised with some of the negative reactions and stuff.

Like, I still think those are good teams. I'm very curious about, we have to remember too, man, like the model is the model, but it doesn't necessarily have to go to plan, right? Like, there are some variations. It's fun to see, it's fun to see teams not necessarily follow what the model is supposed to be. Like, I think the model last year was really high on the Calgary Flames, and the Calgary Flames just weren't high on themselves,

so they ended up cratering to the middle of the pack. So we'll see how it plays out for all those teams. Yeah, no, it's always fun following along with that. That's one of the great preseason storylines of training camp, right? Like watching all of these things. Before we bounce out of this pod, I do want to say real quick that, man, what a crazy weekend. Like for me, what a difference in Ottawa with a brand new owner of Michael Ann Lauer? Like I, Julian, I had a chance to attend his press conference last week.

And you know what was really cool? Michael Anner, after his press conference, wanted to give the kind of four or five beat writers that, you know, around the team a lot, just go sit down with him for 20 minutes. That's cool. And shoot the breeze. Like, I like that. Guys, put your phones away. Let's have a conversation. And it was great.

And I think on Monday, he did the rounds on local radio in Ottawa. and that that's a huge thing. The previous owner only showed up on Toronto radio and wouldn't come on the radio at Ottawa. These are little things. Anyway, the vibes are immaculate in Ottawa. I got to tell you, it was great. And you know what the one line that I thought was great

that you would appreciate because you know, you grew up in Montreal, you knew that Michael Anlower, or you know that Michael Anlower used to be a minority owner of the haps. And he said, as soon as the sale was completed, he said it was great. my wife went into my closet and cleaned out all the HAB's gear.

You have to do that. And straight up, he said like half his closet was gone. Like mostly golf shirts, it sounds like, but all of it got. But here's my question. If you were, and Michael Allen was a billionaire, like a billionaire, how do you get rid of clothes if you're a billionaire? Like, do you, are they the goodwill? You're not going on to like, you're not reselling the clothes, right? You're not stock X or like D pop or whatever.

Like I, no. Would Michael, like, I mean, how do you get rid of clothes if you're a celebrity or a millionaire or a billionaire? What do you do? You just like,

what happens? You go to the Salvation Army and your big fan with all of these different Canadians smart clothes. Just dump them off and see what, like, whatever goodwill ends up with that hall of clothes. Yeah. Enjoy it. You have a field day because all the fans from in Ottawa or Gatineau or whatever,

you could just make that drive up. Someone should figure out where those clothes are going. But no, I can understand why Michael Adler would get to that point. And I think it's really cool that he's willing to take the time to just talk to the media in the area and get to know them. And look, I mean, there's going to be some peaks and valleys. We'll see how it goes with a potential new arena. The team still has to produce on the ice. And at the end of the day, like, Michael Allenauer is a billionaire.

Like if it comes to a point where this team is not doing enough, a lot of fans will have their say and say, hey, got to put some money into spending on this team. But the bar is pretty low considering what the previous owner was like. So the fact that Michael Landlauer does not seem to be this, this formidable foe or this extremely weird person like the previous owner was. And I find it actually is kind of funny. I don't know if we're doing it purposely or we're not naming Eugene Meldick, but like, yeah, the bar was really low with Eugene. We gave him full of Voldemort treatment there. We basically did.

We did. All right, listen, that wraps up the Monday pod. We're going to workshop some new ideas as we're kicking off the new season. Explain yourself. We want to hear from the listeners. Good idea, bad idea. If you hate it, we leave it. We drop it out.

We're workshoping things here. That's what September, it's training camp for us too, right? Yeah, it's preseason, you know. We're filling around with the lines. We're tinkering. Sometimes you have games where you're able to win 10-0. other times you are, you know, you lose 3-1 or something. It happens.

It happens. Better we get this out now than in October, November when the season is in full swing and we sound like we should still be on a golf course somewhere. Yeah. Exactly. All right. Thanks, everybody for listening to the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform.

Leave us a rating and a review. Let us know what you think about the bet between Shana and Julian, what you think about. to explain yourself all the stuff we'll talk. Drop us a comment there. Leave us a rating review. We appreciate it. I can follow us on YouTube as well. YouTube.com slash at the athletic hockey show.

Of course.