The Athletic Hockey Show - Chicago Blackhawks win 2023 NHL Draft Lottery (recorded LIVE!)

Episode Date: May 9, 2023

On this special livestream edition of The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series, Max Bultman and Corey Pronman give their instant analysis on the Chicago Blackhawks winning this year’s NHL Draft Lottery and the right to select Connor Bedard with the No. 1 pick, and much more.Please note: this episode was recorded live on Monday, May 8, 2023.Watch a replay of this episode and subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. It is indeed all about Connor Bedard tonight. We got Bill Daly turning over cards right now. No surprises so far, Corey. But as we talked about here, this is the Connor Badard draft. I want to ask you, as we're going through these picks and they're turning them over, I can keep chiming in with play-by-play a little bit here. The hype on Connor Bedard.

We've been part of it talking about it. How do you feel the hype measures up to the real? reality for the player as he turns over the Buffalo card. Still no surprise his foredrauss him. I mean, I think he is one of the very best prospects we've seen as a draft eligible of the last decade. I mean, you're talking about him, you know, right up there with the likes of Austin, Matthews, Jack Hughes, Ross and Estelle Lee.

And you could argue him ahead of all of them, frankly, at the same age. And I think it'd be perfectly reasonable. You look at his track record, is incredible scoring at the junior level, at the international level, game-breaking skill, game-breaking goal-scoring ability. doesn't have incredible size. He's a good skater and I'm an amazing skater. So how it translates to the NHL would make me a little bit hesitant to drop, say, the generational tag on him,

prepared him to Sidney Crosby, Carter, McDavid. I think he's a little bit behind that. But he's an exceptional prospect. And this is a guy who has the potential to change the trajectory of an NHL franchise's rebuild. I thought it was kind of interesting. You had a story to that effect this morning. And people almost didn't like the idea that he was like only a Jack Hughes level

prospect here. Jack Hughes is a 99 point player this season. Right. And Dahlene is a Norris Trophy candidate and Austin Matthews has won an MVP. I think if for a guy who hasn't played an NHL game, yet comparing him to guys who are of either won or are an MVP consideration, life could be a lot worse. Yep, absolutely. Still no surprises here as they turn over the Vancouver, the St. Louis, the Detroit. Everything through the back half here is going to plan. So in the top eight, no chaos yet. No chaos yet. None of those teams also, that means none of those teams fell, right?

So if you were a fan of one of those teams, you did not lose in the draft order. I know Redmings fans are pretty touchy about that. Capital's in, same deal there. So it will be one of the bottom seven teams. I think that's probably about the cutoff, right? Like I know by the end, Washington and Detroit were in that jockeying lane, but these are the seven for most of the year that we're really in this thing. and some of them who've kind of actively wanted to be in that lane.

Very much so, yes. Not sure exactly. It probably depends who you talked to on whether Philadelphia was in or out of that. I think based on their coaching hire, you can say they were not looking to be part of this, and they do not get Connor Bedard as their card turns over here by Bill Daly. So the tankathon for one of these teams was going to be a success, but that team will not be Arizona.

They slot in at number six here. So this is getting pretty good here, Corey. Yeah, and we're going to see now where both not only but dark, but potentially Adam Fantilia, Lille, Lle-Carlson end up in both those guys, particularly Fantilia, I think, is a guy who could have been a number one overall pick consideration in a number of recent drafts. No back-to-back on the lottery for Montreal. They come in at number five.

That's going to be a fascinating pick. I think that's really one of the points in this draft where the no-brainers have, we anticipate, we'll have gone unless there's a huge shake-up. So that's a really interesting point in this draft. Three out of the four remaining are in the Western Conference for those people who want to. And we haven't seen a first overall pick in the West in quite a long time. That's right. San Jose off the board next.

So the bottom three, it's going to be two of the bottom three that get these spots. Anaheim, Columbus, Chicago remain on the board. And I think we can probably say those are the teams that chase this the hardest. So, you know, I think mission accomplished there, I guess. That's what we want to say. I think Chicago was probably the most active. I think Adaheim, I don't know if they were that blatant. I mean, they signed, you know, John Klingberg in the old season.

They signed Ryan Strom. I feel like this was the Chicago plan. And you know what? Not fair of me to say Columbus. They signed Johnny Goddrault. That's not fair of me to say that they were chasing. Right. It just really went poor between poor play of various players, injuries, you know, some guys who just underperformed in general.

It was a tough season for the blue jackets. And it'll be interesting to see, you know, know, what the player they get and how that changes the trajectory, because you've got to imagine the kick a line regime. There's pressure on them to win now, given the events of last season. Yep, absolutely. I've got it on mute here. Someone just told me Kevin Weeks just maybe potentially spoiled it. So I guess we should have had the volume on to hear whatever was said. But I, hey, I guess that's good for us because we still got some stream left here to go. Let's ask this. Connor Bedard, there's kind of a positional question here. If he's a center or a

wing. Now that we know who the top three teams are, which of these teams is he a center for you on? I think on Chicago, he absolutely has to be tried at center. They have no depth of that position at all in their organization. And especially with Jonathan Tay's leaving next season. Anaheim and Columbus is a little more tricky, particularly Anaheim, where you have Mason McTavish and Trevor Ziegers, both outstanding young players there who can play the middle. Columbus is maybe more about 50-50. I think you have Ken Johnson, who is a quote-unquote center. I think a lot of people envision is a long-term wing in the NHL. You have Cole Cillinger, who is, I think, an NHL center, but had a really tough season in a second full-year pro-pro, but still a really young player.

We think over the long haul, he's going to be a pretty good pro center. So I think those are those will be the tension points there is, are you using Johns in the middle? Are you using Bidard in the middle? If I had to choose between the two, I would lean towards Baudard. Yeah, I think there's a lot to be said for that. Zegris, I think to me, and in Anaheim is the interesting question of what you do. I agree with that one because he's played center. I think you can argue he's better on the wing.

I think you can make the same argument for Bedard. So then it's about, okay, what are you going to, you know, fall back on there? Yeah, yeah, and I agree. I think, you know, Zegris is bigger, but doesn't skate quite as well. I don't think Badaard's blazing fast, but he's a better skater. And I would say his off-the-puck play has a little bit more, you know, detail in it than Zegris does. But, there is a size differential there.

And there's the fact that, frankly, Zegers has been a successful pro center. Those are all points in its favor. And, you know, when Jack Hughes, who is a much better skater than Boudard, but doesn't have quite the offensive skills, turned pro in his first season, they try to play a lot on the wing. Maybe we see that in an eventual transition to center, but I think it'll depend on the organization. I also do think if you're a team that's drafting, Connor Bader, you're probably giving him quite a bit of say into this too, right? Like, I think if you're going to, this guy's going to be your franchise, the face of the franchise for at least the next few years.

Got to prove it still. But I think you give him some input into this decision, if that's where he's comfortable. You know, for Columbus now, we'll see where they end up in terms of the one, two, three. But let's say they get one of a badara fantili. Now, how does that change the organization going forward in the most immediate future right now?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think this is organization. It's not the wants to try to win, whether they actually will win next season, we'll see. But, you know, with a healthy Rovinsky, hopefully some steps up from the young guys. If you all add Badard, you add Fantilia to that roster, I think you're hoping that things,

progress towards a playoff contention. Yeah, I think with Columbus, I almost think I've kind of in my head had Fantilli is just a, I know they're looking for Padillaard, but Fantilli is such a perfect fit. They're knowing how hard they've been chasing these centers forever. I also just think it would be very funny for all these Michigan guys to keep ending up in Columbus between Werenski, Kent Johnson, and potentially Fantili. But here we go. We're back on the broadcast.

We'll see if the universe has the same sense of humor that I do, as we look at the board there. I'm going to do the dramatic pause here because I think this one's a big, a big moment here. Who gets number three? It is Columbus. So I think that is what Kevin Weeks tipped going into the commercial. So this is a very interesting spot for Columbus now,

because they are going to be at the spot in the draft, we presume, where they're picking between Leo Carlson and Mavei Michkoff, and that is going to be maybe the most scrutinized decision in the draft. And I think Will Smith is in that consideration. when you talk to a lot of in HL personnel. Yeah, and he's coming off the huge tournament, obviously, for good reason. There you look at Pat Verbeek and Kyle Davidson.

Davidson first year GM, too, two first year GMs there that we're looking at? Yeah, no, and obviously, you know, in terms of just, you know, the way Chicago's approached this now, it's interesting seeing that they've, because you've been, I don't think a lot of fans probably didn't want to see this outcome because it's such a blatant rebuild resulted in that. It is the Chicago Black. Cox at number one overall. That is fascinating. I mean, this is going to be a lightning rod story, obviously, for people. For the Chicago Blackhawks, I think you made the point in your article this morning. Conor Bedard has a lot of Patrick Kane-like qualities. Patrick Kane goes out. New Patrick

Kane potentially comes in. I agree with you. I think you have to try him at center. But they know as well as anyone what this skill set realistically can look like on the wing and that it is possible to have this guy on the wing for your franchise. Right. And yeah. And, I think there are some deviations between the two players, whereas I think Badaard is more of a shooter and doesn't have maybe the vision and the hockey sense that Kane does. Few players who've played the game, frankly, have ever had that. But in terms of the frame, good, not amazing skaters,

but just exceptional offensive ability is exceptional on the power play. A guy who you think if he hits, and you know, you don't want to put a guarantee on a 17-year-old, but if he hits, you're thinking of a guy who would be a 70, 80, 90-point guy in the National Hockey League. I think that's what you're hoping. Now, what's really interesting with Chicago is, okay, this was the first part of the tear down. Now, what's part two?

You're going to have Badaard. He's going to be in the lineup next season. What does your lineup look around him now? Because it can't be the guys you put out there towards the end of last season. I'm not saying they're going to bring in a bunch of talent and be pushing towards the playoffs. I think that's unrealistic, given the absolute disastrous state of the roster right now. But I think you've got to try and give him some guys to play with, right? Yes, so they're going to have one of the most interesting secondary assets here.

They've got another pick that I think is officially in the top 20 could go up another spot if the Panthers finish off the Leafs. That's a pick that now you have this question of do you try to draft a running mate for Connor Bedard or do you try to move it for immediate help so that he comes into as good of a day one situation as possible. Right. And they have, like I said, I think Lucas Reichel will be up. He'll be, I think, a good player for them next season.

I was pretty confident Kevin Kortinski was going to go back to Seattle. Now I'm not 100% sure because if they do add around Bidar a little bit, I think that makes that situation a little bit more interesting to bring Kortinski in who was outstanding in the Western Hockey League this season.

So like I said, depending on the wing, depending on who you play them on the line with, I think if you're Chicago, you just won this lobby, not only you're just ecstatic because you added a potential, So NHL talent to your roster. But I think now you have to think about what's the next stages of building around Conor Bedard and what has that change our offseason?

Man, I can't help but wonder. Chicago preactively put out that statement before Jonathan Taves's last home game that it was, you know, they weren't going to resign him. Man, I wonder if there's any regret there because there, it would be a pretty appealing situation to have him walk into a Taves-led locker room. and now you've seemingly publicly already closed this door, I think that would have been a tremendous thing for Connor Bedard. I think it would have been too,

but obviously, you know, Tay's situation has been so far- for sure. There are the last few years. Moving to like Anaheim now, let's, you know, I don't think the number two pick is a guarantee that in Fentili.

I think there are some scouts that you can talk to that would lean Leo Carlson. Some would even lean towards Will Smith or Montfei Michkov. But I think almost, not almost, I would say a significant majority of those I talk to think that until is a second death player. So let's talk about what Annan Fantilli looks like in a duck's uniform right now, because I think now we talk about that center wing dynamic.

You know, I think Annan Fantilli centering Trevor Zeggris is a very realistic possibility in five years or now, or possibly even next season. Yes, it is. And I think that, you know, Fantilli is a guy who maybe he's not going to have day one, like 60, 70 point Maddie Baneers type season. Right. But he had a better college season than Maddie Baneers' platform year into the NHL. it would not shock me if he can get above 20 goals, if he can play a real role, a two-way role for that team right away. He's a little younger.

Benares had that buffer of playing two years of college going in. It would not shock me if he can step in and be a really good player right away. I mean, he's the best college player we've seen since Jack Eichol, arguably a better college player than Jack Eichael. And Jack Eichael had 56 points in his first NHL season. I don't think that's an unrealistic number to put on Fenton-Tilly. And like I said, now I think you have him, You have Trevor Zegos, you have Mason McTavish,

Jamie Drysdale, hopefully he's healthy next season. He comes back into the lineup. We'll see what they do with Paddle on Mitchiecoff. I guess he needs one more year out outside the NHL. But, I mean, I think this now becomes an Anaheim, which is an organization that needs to build through the draft. I think now you have what's taken a few years is now you have a real foundation here

that you can envision a contending team coming out of. You do. You have most of the big pieces that teams really start to cover. that, you know, honestly, forget two top six centers. You really have three and you're going to have the luxury of flexing one out to the wing. You're going to have in addition to. Or not. Maybe it's like a stult.

And they're not the same caliber players, but, you know, the crossy-mokin, you know, stall dynamic, that Pittsburgh had. Yes, that's true. You could do that as well. And hey, there's nothing wrong with that as we saw. I think Mason McTavish would be tremendously suited for something like that. He could probably eat teams alive in that role, in fact. And on the blue line, you have this, like, really quietly strong. You mentioned Pavlman-Jikov.

I really like. like this player. I think he's super dynamic. They've already got Jamie Driesdale in the mix and Olin Zellberger. We're going to see what happens there. It's a lot of offensively kind of inclined players that we're talking about there. But all of a sudden, this is one of the more desirable situations in the NHL. Yeah. And I think this is a young core, maybe not next year or even the year after, but I think this is a core that can, you know, kind of grow together into a winner eventually. You talked about Anaheim's a team that needs to build the draft. Historically, I think that is true. does having what we just talked about though this core of all these young players it's obviously you

don't need to sell anybody on the climate of of southern california here does it make them a more attractive free agent destination than we've seen in the past yeah yeah i think so because now you're starting to talk about you know a long-term deals of guys and they can step in and play with an infantility play with trevor zegress play with guys they think can get them the puck and and make plays and and be part of a winning organization i'm not saying that's happening next season but i think there's a lot of good pieces there. And it's not just the guys we named. I think they have a pretty solid pharmacist.

And we'll see how guys, like I say, Jackson McComb does next season in Anaheim. But I think there's, like I said, there's reason for excitement. We'll see how next season goes for Fantility, for Zigos from McTavish. But I think a lot of positives for that organization right now. Right before the big news dropped, I had just said that I think that the Columbus pick is going to be one of the most scrutinized in this draft. Do you want to get into that right here? if we assume that one, two, goes the way we fall, sizing up Leo Carlson, Mavim, Michkoff, and I think, like you said, Will Smith in that mix, too, discussion.

Yeah, I would be surprised if they took Mitch Collins. They would need such assurances from their ownership that you have the job security to see this through to the end. And I've, you know, how deep are we into Yarmu Kekkalayan's tenure? Right now, I just, I should have Sonnyon Kudrow. I would be surprised if they took Mitch Cough. And I think as a player, it's an interesting discussion, and we're going to be having the discussion a lot, you know, in our articles and our podcast going forward, is I can talk to so many NHL people who in the same breath will say Mitch Cove is as good a prospect as at an infantilly or better as a hockey player. And then two seconds later say, and there's no way we're taking it. And it's, and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

we've seen, plenty of them sign this summer. We've seen Russian players extend. Carolina's waiting forever on Alexander and Ekesian, for example, who would be one of the best players in their lineup right now if he was on their team. And, you know, you hearken back to, say, the 2010 draft where guys like Vladimir Tarasanko, Gendikuznetsov, consensus top five, 10 guys slid to 16 and something like 28. I remember overall. So it, and that didn't age well. But those are, you know, such an interesting dynamic. But yeah, I just, in terms of Columbus, I don't, if I was doing a mock draft right now,

and we will be doing a mock draft at the athletic in the next few hours here, I would be surprised if Columbus took that shot. Yeah, I mean, we talked about, right? Like, you know, they were a team that went out last off season and signed Johnny Goddrow. Usually when you sign a contract like that, you're hoping to derive the value, the main value of it in those first four or five years before the player gets too deep into the 30s. You've already blown that if you wait the three years for Mitchcoff, assuming, you know, there's no, you know, outside situation that is able to get that contract. And that is absolutely an argument I hear in his favor from people who say, just go do it. You know, he'll develop in the KHL, you'll get him in a year, let's get 21 years old.

but I get the alternative argument. I think he's a better player than Leo Carlson and Will Smith. I think actually he's a much better player. But Leo Carlson and Will Smith are extremely good hockey players. Those are guys that would be standard, second, third overall picks in any given draft. And those are guys who I think could be star, may have the potential to be stars in the league. I think they will, but they have the potential. And those are really hard players to say no to when you know for a fact.

They will be in your lineup into the next two years. And probably within the next three years, they're helping you win hockey games. So how likely, I guess, then, do you think it is that when we're looking at Mavi Mitzkhov on draft day, that we're hearing his name called more in the back half of the top 10 than in this top three where it seems like most would rank him? Yeah, I think that is the more likely outcome just from my early discussion early. We've been waiting for a draft order to get a real idea with mock draft season in terms of where guys could really slot. but I think 6 to 10, 6 to 12, I think that is a more realistic range for Mitch Cull of right now.

If I was doing a mock draft than where I think he belongs on talent, just because I think people are going to prefer Carlson. They're going to prefer Smith just because they're such great players. I think they might even prefer guys like David Reimbacker. I think he has a ton of love in the league. And as a guy who projects as a top pair defenseman played very well versus men this year, we'll see how his world championships and Smithson and Carlson and Fantilli's go. could change their stock as well and give you more assurances or, frankly,

reasons to not take them. But I think, you know, like I said, I think what those top four guys, I think, are pretty strong bets, in my opinion, to go ahead of Mitchcock as it stands right now. So who else do you think could we see? If he does slide into six or later, who else could jump up? I mean, I know there was some Delgbore-Divorski love coming out of the World U-18s. Obviously, usually you see a defenseman somewhere in the top, if not top five, at least top seven. Right.

I think Ryan Bacher's got at least a 50-50 chance to go ahead of him. Okay. And there's a couple teams there that I think that would make sense for, right? I think that gets to a certain point. I get the Reimbocker argument. I would even have issues with Dvorke personally, but I understand the center arguments, you, everyone loves centers. I think there gets to a certain point of ridiculousness

when you start talking about guys like Kobe Barlow or Matthew Wood or Ryan Leonard or Gay Perot and even Dvorsky, I think, is in there. where like the talent delta is just so gigantic at that point. And you're talking about guys who realistically project us like second line wingers. And I think at some point, you're going to force the team's hand too much. And I'm sure there would be like an owner of listening to the draft meetings and hearing what you project one guy as and predict the second guy as. And I think that the decision becomes inevitable, even if it's uncomfortable.

And that's what we've talked about through this whole process on the hockey show, right, your prospect series show is that, you know, it's going to be about the owner as much as anything else here. It's going to be about the tolerance, the patience of the owner, the risk tolerance of the owner, and really the security of the general manager. Yeah, I think not all, but most hockey people I talk to agree. He is a top five minimum and arguably top three or two talent in this draft. Not every hockey person I talk to says that, but most. I've not a significant majority of them will say that. But that is not who's making these decisions.

It is management and it is ownership. To the viewers, if anybody's got questions, you can feel free to drop them in the comments. Right now, I'm just seeing a lot of frustration, whether it was deserved or not for the Chicago Blackhawks to win this one. But you know what? That is the games you play when you have a lottery. And so Chicago does come out with Connor Bedard.

We're happy to take a couple of questions. We've got a few minutes left here before Corey and I got to run and get to work on our. staff mock draft, Corey, anything else you want to hit before we fully turn it over to the questions. I'm just excited. We have a draft order. This has to be one of the shortest runways we've had between the draft lottery and the actual draft since I've been doing this. I think it's just about seven weeks now until draft day. So I'm just excited that we actually know what's going to happen now, or have a vague idea what's going to happen on draft day and can start talking about the rest

of the prospects. Very different than it was in 2020 when it felt like the longest run-up to draft. Oh, I'm well aware. Awesome. I'm not seeing anything really pop in here. So maybe that's our cue to sign off. We really appreciate everybody tuning in with us tonight and watching maybe history. We'll see. Unfold. You can subscribe to the athletic at theathletic.com. And obviously, you can follow us here for the athletic hockey show and more from the prospect series. Thanks, everybody.