The Athletic Hockey Show - Chris Tanev traded to Dallas: Stars acquire the top trade piece in the NHL

Episode Date: February 29, 2024

Hailey and Sean review the creative trade involving Calgary, New Jersey and Dallas which saw Jim Nill acquiring highly coveted defender Chris Tanev.Dom Luszczyszyn, national NHL writer for The Athletic, stops by to discuss the upcoming deadline, and his Trade Board and he gives the three players he would trade for and three players he would steer clear of. Plus, Hailey and Sean stick tap the PWHL's playoff plan, as that league's successful inaugural season continues to make positive news, giving the fans what they want. Get a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Haley Salvean and Sean Gentilly here with you. No Max Boltman this week. He's sick or just ignoring us. We're not totally sure what to believe. But that's okay because we're going to have Dom Lus Dishan join us later on the show to break down the rest of the NHL trade board.

But before we get to that, Sean, big trade last night. Chris Tanev traded by the Calgary Flay. to the Dallas stars for a 2024 second round pick, a conditional 2026 third round pick and prospect Artem Greshnikov. That condition, by the way, is if the stars advance to the cup final. If that does not happen, no pick will be transferred. The flames are retaining 50% of TANF's four and a half million dollar cap hit. The Devils are also retaining 50% of TANF salary in exchange for Dallas's fourth round pick in 2026, believe the flames get another prospect in exchange. change there in the three-way deal. So essentially, Sean, my long-winded intro to this

podcast today, the Dallas Stars get Chris Tannib at 25% of his salary, which is $1.125 million without giving up a first round pick or any of their top prospects. It is a good day to be Dallas Stars bandwagoners like we have been since the start of the season. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, I have to cut you off there. Dallas Stars fans, I should. say, but I was trying not to say fans. You can call me a Stars bandwagoner since like 20, 22. I just mean that we both picked them to win the Stanley Cup this year, okay? I think I might have picked them to win the West last year.

Me too. You know what? I've been hitting the Stars drum for a while now. It's a good day to be us is all I'm saying. Stars fans, good day to be Stars fans like we are. It's a good day to be Jim Nill, too. That's one of my big takeaways. And I know we don't need additional evidence that that dude's really good at his job,

but we got some last night. I think for whatever reason, what tips it over into heist territory for me is that, and I guess God bless Tom Fitzgerald if you're Jim Nill for getting involved, but that extra 25% of TNF's original salary getting retained is where it turns into like, how did this, how did this happen? Why did it happen on February 28th? Because we, as of last night,

we're still nine days out from the deadline. That seems like, you know, last call at the bar for Craig Conroy, right? That's like a, that's like a 3 a. You know,

uh-oh, got to do something. or else we're going to be left holding the back kind of deal. And he did it nine days in advance. So it's a wild, it was a wild thing to watch play out. I know I wrote this in my trade grade, you know, right up. But with every bit of successive information that we got from the insiders, whether it was Pierre or CJ or whoever, you know, it got worse for Calgary.

You're like, okay, pick and prospect, fine. It's a second round pick. the prospect isn't one of the top guys. Yeah. 50% 20% and like you just. And then the condition. Crazy. Yep.

So our colleague and our dear friend Saad Yousif, who covers the Dallas Stars and the Cowboys, Jacobald trades that boy. He had a tweet before it came out who the prospect was saying, as long as this isn't Bork, Stan Kovin, or Bischel, I'm sorry. this could go down as a gym nil masterpiece. And then like four minutes later, Saad tweets the sourced up guy he is.

The prospect is Grushnikov. And then you just keep going like, somebody probably saw that and was just like, it's not, baby, like Jim Nillardt. Let's go. Or Saad had an inkling that that's what it was going to be and was just waiting to get it nailed down. Right.

Like that's, that's Primo stuff. And it really, it really is. And that was my takeaway too. Sean, I think we had the same reaction. It was really one of those trades that you see the initial post and you go, okay, interesting. And then yeah, every piece of like subsequent information was like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, no. It's just, it's not a catastrophe for the Calgary flames. And I think if you look at everything that the flames have shipped out since Conroy started. and everything they've brought in. I think the prospect in the, you know, NHL pieces have been a little bit disappointing. I think Sarenkovic has done well, because Manko is a compelling player. They've gotten some first round picks.

They have a ton of draft capital. So when you look at the body of work as a whole, it's just fine. I think, I just think if you're a flames fan, you probably, and maybe it's because there was so much hype around it, and maybe there was like an inflated sense

of what TANF was going to be worth on the trade market or a Tyler Toffoli, like all these players, like I just feel like we heard all these things about how he's high in demand and they want a first round pick and then all of a sudden it goes they want a second. And essentially the flames got a second round pick and then a former second round pick and maybe a third round pick for Chris Tanniv at retained salary. And I just, it's not terrible work by Craig Conroy. It's just very good work by Jim Nill. and I'll get your take on this too, Sean. How many times have we talked on this podcast

about how the Dallas Stars blue line is thin, to say the least? Like, it was not hard for anybody around the NHL to know that the Stars had a situation on the blue line that's been particularly exposed with injuries to Hack and Paw and Nils Lungfist. Like, that should have given teams more leverage to get more out of the Dallas Stars and Jim Nell

because they're like, you need us right now. you need this guy more than we do or whatever. It's a UFA. So maybe that's not true. But like I guess I'm just surprised and even more impressed that Jim Nill got the second best player on the trade board. Not just the second best defender like the number two guy on most trade boards without giving up a first round pick or a prospect, especially given his blue line situation. They needed a right shot at the start of the season.

to play behind Miro Hizkenen. And that was only exacerbated over the last couple weeks when we did see Yanni Hock and Poggett hurt and we did see Niels Lundkev's like get hurt. They should have been trying to upgrade on those guys no matter what. For sure. Let alone after they left the lineup, right?

I want to say about Tanev. I think part of what makes him so compelling and we see guys like this often is you have that intersection of the player that GM's love old that old school GMs love for toughness in you know character and playoff you know playoff style hockey good analytics guy too you see that and then you see the intersection between actually being a solid player in the modern NHL because sometimes this isn't this isn't ben

charot it's not been charot but it's also not like thomas tatar or whatever some some guy who has like solid possession numbers but can't translate that to being an effective playoff guy right like like chris tenev is the combination of those of those two schools of thought right and i love love love dudes like that where you can see someone who's like oh my god like a gym a gym nil or whoever is he's going to is he's just going to be foaming at the mouth over this guy because he's a leader and he plays hurt and he plays hard and he plays heavy and all these all these things. And on top of it, which is still too often an afterthought, he's a really good hockey player. He's a good, effective, modern hockey player. He is a true defensive

defenseman, not just a defenseman who can't produce offense because that is still too often something we hear is just the fault of saying some guys is a shut down defender because he doesn't produce points. Yeah, versus actually like being good at that craft, right? And I think, we've talked about this on the show. I feel like I've had this statement prepared from my time covering the flames. And, you know, we can even talk about Dom about it when he comes on. But Dom and I did the story. He ripped that signing four years ago, three years ago, just like they just signed an old man who can't play anymore. And then I got Don back to be like, you were wrong. Here's all the reasons why. And we did kind of a collaboration on how like the Chris Tann of signing in Calgary, at least in year one, you know, exceeded expectations, at least what people like. Dom or other analytics people thought because it seemed like he was maybe going to fall off a bit. But like he's very mobile despite his age. Like he's not going to be the coast to coast end guy, but he doesn't need to be. Right.

Like he's very good at getting pucks out of the offensive zone. His defensive IQ is unbelievable. Like to appreciate Christanaev is to watch Christanave regularly. Like the amount of times that he's just in the right spot. That is not an accident. He reads the play. He's in the right spot all of the time. he has a very disruptive stick.

It, like, just kills attacks off the rush on the cycle in the zone, like, a hard-nosed guy, like, he'll block a shot with his face. So, yeah, Sean, like, he's a warrior in that kind of hockey dude sense, but he's also just, like, incredibly smart, very, very excellent. And I think it gives Pete DeBore such a great option on the blue line. Because when you think, like, Miro Haskinen and Thomas Harley have been playing very, very well together on that top pair. Do you want to put Chris Tannove there to kind of recreate some of the Tann of Quinn Hughes,

Tan of Hanifin combination, have the veteran with the young offensively dynamic guy, or do you round out your top four with TANV on a second pair? Like you've got options now that they didn't have previously. And I just think this is like such a slam dunk, or at least on paper. Like obviously we have to see him get there and see him play. but that's the always asterix that we have to put on this kind of conversation. But to me, right now, this is a slam dunk for the Dallas Stars. If there was a problem with Chris Tanev in 2024,

it's that his offensive production and his offense contributions, offensive contributions have tiled off like a little bit from the last company. But he's never been known as that guy. Hold on. Hold the phone. He hasn't been. But it's dipped off. It's dipped a bit. Like, that's fair to say. Yeah. It's happened.

Sure. On the, on the Dallas stars, that doesn't matter. Yeah. Who cares? You're going, you're going to a team that has three lines that can score goals, has Meryl Haskinen, who's is gifted an all-around guy as there is in the league in front of him. Thomas Harley, like you said, is just like he's an offensive dynamo at, at still a really young age.

They don't need that dude to be Chris Tanev from two years ago, and even in terms of his offensive. Sure. Right? They can like focus on puck retrievals and first passes and playing with an active stick and gap control and all these things that Kristynev is still really, really good at. Let all those other dudes handle the point production.

We don't need you for that. For sure. Yeah. And I just want to say too, I think a lot of people look to that 20, 21, 22 flame season and say like, oh, well, he's dropped off from there. Literally everyone on the Flames Blue Line had a career high season at that point because they were playing in that Daryl Sutter system that prioritized puck possession. They were defensively, very stingy, like very good at going like D zone to Ozone. Like literally everyone on the blue line, including Eric and Branson, had a career year offensively.

So I'm not saying this to you specifically, Sean, but I think people- Eric Branson. He did. Everybody, everybody, career highs and like goals. points like it was such a good season for that flames team that ended up you know being one of the best they've had johnny goddrae heart trophy da da da da da da da but like people need to stop looking at that season and be like why isn't christ tandem scoring 28 points here it's like because he's like there are 22 points no it was 28 sorry like that's just not that was a great year for him offensively but that

like he's not that guy and that's not a bad thing um we said this off the top sean you and i both huge Dallas Stars fans already. I just think this pushes them even further up the conversation of not just the best team in the West, but

cup contenders. And that's saying something considering Jake Onger hasn't been as good as he has been this season. That's why I picked him win the cup. I knew this was going to happen. I knew on February 28th, Jimno was going to go out and get a 75%

percent off version of Chris Tann of the plane of the right side, knew it was coming. I guess the only other part here as it relates to the Calgary flames in terms of the why and why now. I do not cover the flames anymore, so I was not boots on the ground talking to Craig Conroy last night. I did kind of listen to a bit of flames talk where Conroy spoke and I read Eric Francis's story on Sportsnet and read through some of our stuff. so, you know, just wanted to give credit for where I've seen this. It's a little bit curious to me, like the timing, as you mentioned, Sean, like, we're still nine days out. We heard all of this talk about how in demand he was. So it does make me think, like, did Craig Conroy blink a bit and get worried that a deal was going to dry up where teams were going to start looking at Sean Walker, like where the Dallas Star is going to go for somebody else if they didn't take this deal now?

I think maybe one of the bigger considerations as we talk about the value of Christ Tanniv and this warrior mentality that he plays with, like he's maybe a guy that you want to trade sooner so he doesn't block a shot with his face and miss the two days leading up to the deadline or something. And, you know, Craig Conroy spoke yesterday with Sportsnet again, my best friend, Pat Steinberg, on his radio show. essentially I was just saying, like, we believed that the time was now. And it seems like it was a combination of, of the package presented by Dallas and the risk of injury that made this the time to trade Christ Tannov.

I get it, but, you know, the return is what it is. Like, you, like, we can, that's, these are all justifications for an underwhelming return. That's really, that's really, that's really what it comes down to. So whatever. And I get it. Craig Conner has done a pretty good job overall, I think since taking that job. But yeah, and it's like to me, like it's, this is about the stars. It is, right? Like, like, like, I think that's my up shot is you look at that team and you're like, man, okay, they're loaded up. And now we get to watch. It's going to be fun.

And Jim Nell just won GM of the year, a year ago. Back to back. Okay, we'll take a break. And when we come back, we're going to be joined by Domloose Chish. And we'll break down a little bit more of the trade, get his thoughts, and take a spin around the rest of the trade board because we're eight days out. Eight days out from the NHL trade deadline that's coming up on the athletic hockey show. All right, welcome back to the show. Welcome back to Dom. He joins us for the first time this season.

And he just got back from a nice vacation. Sean, why you look at me like that? Has Don been on the season? Did I just forget? No, we've cut Dom out. we get dumb for Max. I think my, Max is in,

or was in Hawaii too. Like, this is, this is garbage. When do I get to go to Hawaii? That's the question. When do I get to go to Hawaii? It's very nice, guys. I would recommend it.

Did you do the Jurassic Park tour? Not that there's, this company does the helicopter tour. And there's two different versions. One, you get to, fly into the fall and land there and that was an extra 150 bucks and I figured it's the exact same thing like they still fly you to the fall they show you around they just don't land there for I didn't think that was worth the extra at 150 so just is the company is the company owned by

an old British man with a white beard who walks with a little glass I'd be really care I'd be really careful for uh I didn't I don't know who owns the company I had they do have celebs who flew the plane and they had a picture of old Stephen S on there. I'm like, oh, that's nice. The lady got to fly this helicopter. My buddy Steve was here. He flew in this helicopter once. My close personal friend. Yeah, that's great. Well, you didn't miss a ton, I guess, in the last week. You came back just in time for the Chris Tann of trade. Maybe you were in the air. Maybe you landed. Maybe you were taking an app. I'm not sure. But Sean and I just talked about the deal and obviously just wanted to get your thoughts too. I was looking at your player

cards and I think one of the biggest takeaways, you know, we were just waxing poetic about Jim Neal. So we like the trade. But one of the biggest parts, Dom, is that there was surplus value on TANF's $4.5 million cap hit on your player cards. And now they're getting TANF at just over $1 million. So I assume that surplus. value is going to go up quite a bit if you're the Dallas stars just seems like a win all around for Jim Nell. Yeah. First, I want to shout out to Shana Goldman for updating everything while I was gone.

I noticed that. I kept me in like text here and be like, oh, thanks for doing this. And I forgot. Whoops. You remember when I got to be on graph duty because you got locked out to your Twitter account on trade deadline. That was a bad time. I had a meltdown.

Yeah. Have I sent Shana like a, I think like a thousand word document instructing like how to do everything? And she was a champ. And that's how we have an update Tanna player card. That basically says that if Jim Nill or didn't get any salary retention at all and got TANV at full freight at $4.5 million, he'd still be not only worth it, but like a positive value asset. So the fact that he got 75% off of someone who is still $5 million. defenseman with what he does in his own end with his puff moving ability. So what is it?

Like one million now? 1.2.1.25, yeah. Yeah. It's pretty pretty tiny business and gives the stars the top four piece that they really needed. I updated their Stanley Cup probabilities this morning and they jumped from 12.5% to 14.4%. So they were already Who? Why did you make like a ghost sound?

He's just so excited by a one and a half point bump from Christina. That's pretty great for a defensive defenseman, right? For one player? Yes. They also get him for four more games than they would have if they acquired them at the trade deadline, which I think is kind of an underrated part of this. Not that they're in some kind of crazy seating battle, but, you know, every point matters down the stretch.

If ideally you get there in a spot where you can play one of those wildguard teams, that helps them down the line too, you know, because the division's a beast. You don't want to try to avoid, you know, the Colorado's of the world as long as you can. Yeah, that is, that is honestly exactly in why their odds are better than the jets or the abs is they, they have that chance to win the division. I do think they're the top team in the central and getting that. top seed is huge in almost every division because the wildcard teams this year are pretty bad. Yeah.

So just for context, I'm looking at the updated, projected standings. And it looks like the Carolina hurricanes have the top odds to win the Stanley Cup followed by the stars. And the Oilers at 14%. And both the stars and the Oilers have a 25% chance of making the country. Cup final. So we're essentially projecting that they're going to be duking it out in the conference final. Yeah, and that'd be a pretty great

real thing with how strong offensively both teams are. Do you have okay, so if we can TNF is one of the two best defensemen on the market. We'll lump him in with Hannafin depending on what you look for, you know, preferences

may vary, but right shot, all that stuff. Who who kind of who's at the top of that next year for you now that especially now that he's off the table like is is there is there a guy outside of the no hand of some discussion because that's something else entirely is there a guy who if you're if you're if you're a team who is looking at christian evan is now disappointed that you don't have on like who do they move on to if you're you know Toronto or or Vancouver or you know what whoever else it is it is really tough because I think there is a pretty dramatic drop-off after Tanev. The next two best guys are Sean Walker and

Alex Carrier and both have been very good, both have strong underlying numbers. They, they don't have the pedigree, the resume. They're both really small as well. And you wonder how that's going to work in its top four role in the playoffs. With Carrie, I think his best times have been next to Yossi, if I'm not mistaken. And you do wonder how much of his impact is based on that with Sean Walker. He was a cap dump just last year. And who knows if you're really getting this version of Sean Walker, who has been a strong puck mover and has done well under torterello.

But his minutes aren't like super tough in the same realm that TANIPS are. And it seems like there might be another. drop after those guys. If you're looking at the trade board, you start talking about Matt Dumba as a right shot. You know, there's, it's,

Eric Johnson, like if you were a team is looking for right side improvement specifically, like the pickings get slim real, real quick, which, again, not to go back to what we said before, but that's what makes the return on 10 of,

like, all the more confusing to me is because everyone loves right shots, but even this year, even more so, there's just a, It's a gulf between Tanev and everyone else, it seems like. Do you remember the Ben Chirot trade price? Uh-huh.

Like, you can't honestly tell me that Tenev is less valuable than Ben Chirot was at the deadline. Like, just it doesn't make sense. Did Chirot have a term? Or was he also a UFA? It was a UFA. And he's just, I think he's only two years younger than Chris Tanna. Mind you, he was younger because this was a year or two ago. So we're talking about a 30, 31 year old versus 34, but I still, I thought that TANF would get a first.

Yeah, I was, I was shocked that that was a huge sticking point. I don't think TANF is as good as he was last year or the year before that, but he's still done his job as a defensive husband. He's just not bringing the same, I guess, offense as years past before he could at least count him to be sort of average. and being elite defenseman. Now he's sort of giving a bit back the other way, but he's still a genuine top four guy. And with the market being what it is, like I guess you can add Jacob Chikrin to the list of guys

that can be top pair defensemen, but is Ottawa going to trade him? I'm not sure. And Chikrin himself comes with question marks because he doesn't seem to handle tough minutes very well. And it did feel like Arizona kind of pumped and dumped him. on Ottawa with playing him in Pillsoff minutes last year, getting him to bump his numbers up,

and now he just hasn't been all that great with the Sends, especially defensively. Like offensively, he still is still chikering. He has a booming shot. He can move the puck fine, but defensively has just been sort of blah. Andrew Peek is number 32 on CJ's tradeport.

Like, the right shot group just gets ugly. in a hurry. So yeah, I don't know. Dom, is there anybody else on this on the list that you, that you love that kind of stands out that you feel like is flown under the right? Or not even necessarily a defenseman, just from the group entirely. Okay. Thank you for not saying. Frank Bertrano. I'm not going to say Frank Petrano. I think for Toronto is scoring, he's sort of like the Mikhail Bodker of a few years ago, where he's on a bad team getting a lot of minutes.

beat butt, brother. Jesus. He's getting points because of where he is in the lineup, an opportunity he's not going to get anywhere else on a contending team. He's just Fetano slander from you. I don't like this one. I'm sorry, Frank Petrano. I like what he can do. I just don't.

I think people have to be weary of what they're paying for, which is just a guy who can score in a depth role and be a bit of a bit of disaster elsewhere. I like Pavel Bouchenevich, who's been added to the train board in the most recent update. I think if a team strikes out on Jake Gensel, there's an actual backup plan you can have

because Bouchnevich has been an unreal player of St. Louis for the last few years, scored it at a 90 point pace at certain points, 85, something around there. And he's not just someone who can score. you can drive play. He's pretty responsible in his own end. I think he's a fantastic player and if you don't get Gensel, Bushnevich is right there.

Is there, we talked about this last week, or maybe two weeks ago, it's all a blur on this great fun show that we do every Thursday with Max instead of Dom now. I wonder if Dom was low-key offended? That's the question. Were you upset when we added Max as a full-time co-host and not? you? Was I upset that I had to do less work? No. That was good.

Okay, great. Now the actual question, is there a more perfect trade than Jordan Eberley to the Edmonton Oilers? Question mark? Question mark? I don't think so. I love it a lot. The reunion would be amazing and Everly, getting a cup of the team that drafted him would

be something else. And I think there are probably some more than the fans who aren't sure because of Everley's perhaps past playoff appearances, but I mean, he's still a fantastic player. He's someone who doesn't need the power play to score, which I think is something Edmonton really needs, and which is something that makes Jake Gensel so attractive is both these guys can score really well at five on five and drive play at even strength. And it gives them more beef in their top six. Not to shoe away the reunion,

but another guy I like in that realm is Anthony Manta. He's scoring at an insane clip this year for the caps. He really has looked like his vintage self in a lesser role. And I think for any team's middle six,

he's a really strong addition for what he can do with his shot and his ability to drive play. that both ends the ice seemingly because his defensive numbers are pretty strong this year. He makes more money then. He makes like 1.2 million more than Eberley. But I think did the caps have enough space that they could retain to make that work? They can retain.

Yeah. I had to write about the caps. The caps, uh, deadline outlook yesterday. So I was shocked. How does it look? Anthony manth of 57%

expected goals like on the caps 1.43 goals per 60 which is 43 goals per 60 which is 43rd in the league and tied with Kirill Caprizov

at 5 on 5 and Elias Pettersson like he's been really really good the 5.7 million is excessive right like that's a problem but if you can get the caps to retain

half and they can, especially because his contract expires after this season, I think he is a really attractive option for someone who loses out on Gensel, for sure. Like, would I sign Anthony Amantha to a new contract after this? I don't think so, but I'll take him for the stretch run at, you know, 2.85 because he's been really, really good. I feel like the money isn't real all the times because of the way teams can, naggle their way out of everything. Look at Dallas.

We like find someone else to do that. Okay, but were we surprised by the New Jersey Devils popping off as like the team who could retain cap to facilitate a deal? I'm just not used to seeing a team that's like in the playoff race being like, yeah, we'll help make this happen for you. It makes you wonder whether Tanev makes you wonder whether Tanev was Who else was in on them was a Metro team in on them? I don't know like was Tom Fitzgerald trying to play keep away from someone else Say we reroute this guy to the Western Conference that's the sort of stuff I think of Whenever you see that you're like what does what does New Jersey have to gain from helping

Dallas you know yeah score Christianev and I don't know there could be could be something we could could be something we're not privy to do they not do they not want 10 of themselves. Like, I don't know. Their defense isn't very good. Is that it? Like, we can't have them. So we want someone else to,

we want somebody else to miss out. I don't know. I feel like that doesn't really make sense. I feel like it would probably be that they're saving whatever, like they're saving their big bullets, so to speak for a goalie, no? Or they just really wanted a fourth round pick.

Or Tompinsgerald. They've got somebody circles. It's Gerald really likes. Jim, no, I don't know. Like, something's up there.

I mean, they've got LTIR, like they've got room because Dougie's on LTIR and he's probably not coming off until at least the playoffs if they make it, right?

So it's like, why not get an extra asset? We're not, it's not going to eat at our bottom line too much. We'll still be able to make a move. It's kind of like smart and fun by Tom Fitzgerald.

It was just unexpected. I think we're not used to seeing teams who are in the hunt be the facilitator. of the bank, for lack of a better word. I want to go back to the Oilers quickly, Dom. Zach Hyman hits 40 last night, Connor McDavid scores as well.

He had, what, 25 assists between his last two goals? And, like, you hear that, and it's like, did he not score for weeks? It was like eight games or something. It was like two days. Like, I don't know, just something crazy for Connor McDavid. And obviously we went through some of the projections, and them and the stars are projected to be on a collision for the Western Conference final. Do you see the Oilers as like the best Stanley Cup contender? Like, how are you viewing this team right now?

Because it's been a bit of a roller coaster for them, obviously. They had a really rough start. Yeah, I think at the start of the year, we had the Oilers as the Cup favorites. and they're still around that area. And just having Conrad David is the biggest cheat code you can have. You have the best player in the world, and you're going to be a contender most years as long as the rest of the roster isn't a complete tirefire.

And that was the case for a lot of Nick David's career, but it isn't any more dry size. Obviously there, Bouchard has emerged as an elite number 1D. at home has made, helped Bouchard find that ability in a top four role. I think there's still pieces that those could add, but that's true of every contender. Every contender is missing something, and we don't need to say, oh, those aren't it because they don't have this or this or whatever. They have a huge surplus in offensive value just from Paddy McDavid, and that allows them to have a few more holes than maybe another. tender would. I would love an

Everly trade there. I would love some defenseman that isn't Cody Cici to play in the top four. But again, like that's slagging Cody Cici. We took a break for a couple of years. He's, he's fine. Like I think there are a lot of Oils fans who despise Cody

Cici and a lot of Oilers media who say will give him cut him a lot of slack. And the answer is probably in the middle that he's fine if he's your second or third pair of defenseman you probably don't want him as the guy next to nurse getting shut down minutes or whatever I don't know they're they're very strong team their start obviously wasn't what it needed to be but it didn't help that Skinner forgot

how to make a save and McDavid forgot how to be McDavid but those things have changed since and I think them and Dallas are definitely the teams to be in the West there's something funny I just I just crunch this real quick when McDavid's goalless streak started, he was 16 points off the scoring lead. Now that his goalless streak is over, he is nine points off the scoring. So that dude went however long it was without scoring a goal and closed the gap on Kuturav significantly. That must be nice. He had a lot of games in hand as well with him on Kuchrov and McKinnon.

I think by pace he was a lot closer than people thought, but now that it's, even that pace is starting to catch up. And I still think McDavid is the best kind of the world. I think he's the heart trophy favorite unless someone does something. Really? I think his complete game this year has been the best of his career, and he's on pace for 136 points.

I, like, I think his, I was going to say this feels like a year, in which Connor McDavid is not like the one that everyone's discussing is who's going to win the Heart Trophy. I feel like Kutrov and McKinnon and Matthews have kind of dominated that conversation in the last few weeks. They have McKinnon. Oh, we're all wrong. Yeah. No, honestly, it's a very tight feel. I think you have five, maybe six very strong candidates. And if you pick any of them, you probably have a very strong case for it. Who's five and six then? because you have you have mckinin david kuturav and matthews obviously at the top but who's bringing up

who else is on that top tier contenders i would say quin hughes and connor helbuck hughes has been the best defenseman this year and we haven't had defensemen even nominated for the heart since chris bronger and hughes i think has been near that level at least for most of the season the other four I would take over him, but he should be on the short list at least. And Conor Halibuck, what are the Jets without Connor Halibuck? They're still a good team, but they are not one of the best teams of the West. And he's just been amazing. So he should be on that list.

But yeah, I do think that McDavid has been the best player this year still, even though the hype has been there for him. I think his five on five on ice numbers have been incredibly good. He is right there in the points race with McKinnan Kudrov and has been, I think, stronger in his own end than both of them. And I don't think he's been as strong defensively as Austin Matthews, but he's got a 14-point lead on him. So, sorry, 17-point lead on him.

So I think he just has the most complete game this year from how much he's doing offensively and how much he is helping in his own end as well. Okay, well, I think it's like 5 a.m., 6 a.m., Hawaii time for Dom, so we'll let you go take a nap and, I don't know, get your affairs in order. Thanks for doing this. Got the power rankings, brother. Yeah.

Oh, that'll be fun. Yeah, thanks for having me. Always a pleasure. Happy to do this for the first time all year. It's fine. I'm not bummed. I'm not bummed. It's fine.

You don't like working, so don't. Ironic. Somebody works some. much. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Tom. All right, welcome back. This is a little segment today that we're going to call PWHL Corner. Corner. There's a negative connotation there. I don't, I don't, I don't think. Oh, what do you mean? In the corner. You're bad. You go to the corner. No, no. No. It's like the hot stove. We are talking to the right person. and if we want to turn this into the hot stove,

the PWH Hot Stove segment. It's you. I am on a hot stove sometimes. I actually don't even know if that's what it's called. I shouldn't say that. I think it's like a sponsored segment too. Sorry. What cares?

Anyways. You've been very busy. That's what's important. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot going on. I'm in Montreal right now. And I've got a meeting for a story that I'm working on

that I'm very excited about. coming up in the next hour or so. So that'll be out at some point in time in the future. And this morning, I had a big story come out about Sarah Nurse and just kind of like the business of Sarah Nurse, which if you're a dedicated listener to the show, first off, I'm sorry, but also thank you. And then you'll remember that during All-Star Weekend, we were talking about how I was running around and had some super secret story that I was working on. And I followed Sarah Nurse around during NHL All-Star weekend for a story about everything that she does off the ice and like the business of Sarah Nurse. And that story just came out. If you're interested, check it out.

and I've just got to say I followed her around for part of one day. And I remember saying to her agent, like, wow, I really need a nap. And she's like, are you kidding me? You've been here for like two minutes. You said that out loud. Oh, yes. She was like, hmm. Okay, well, we've got like five more things to get to.

I just was like sitting. Watching Sarah Nurse has made you extremely tired. Yes. I was walking around. I was standing. I was sitting. It was a lot. She's a very busy person, very impressive person.

And it was just a story I've been interested in doing for a while because over the last few years, we've seen the Sarah Nurse Barbie, Sarah Nurse in the cover of NHL 23, Sarah Nurse on a Cheerios box. By the way, the multi-grain Cheerios box that Sarah Nurse was on, this didn't make it into the final cut of the story because it would have just been a drop in. The multi-grained Cheerios outsold the Cheerios that Connor McDavid was on. And Sarah, which is so funny. And I was like, that's the upset of the year is that the multi-grained Cheerios were the best seller of the Cheerios box that included Mark McMaris, Connor McDavid and Sarah Nurse. And Sarah was like, that's grandma's favorite, man. Like, my grandma stocked up.

Multi-gram. That's in. Grandma Nurse is making healthy choices. Loves multi-grain Cheerios. I feel like you were going to say that like she was on a box of Honey Nut Cheerios and in a Conner was on. Like so you can sort of like see maybe it has nothing to do with the people that are on the boxes because Honey Night Chios are just better. Nope. She's moving boxes on multi-grain.

Like that's her multi-grane churios out sold Connor McDavid. Like if you want to know about this business of Sarah Nurse, just know that. I should have included that in the story actually. But I also, I don't know. Do people like multi-grained churios or do they just love Sarah Nurse? I think it's the latter. So that story came out, which was super fun to report. But also we had some PWHL news that I want to get your opinion on, Sean.

This is why we're talking about the PWHL here in this segment. So the league announced yesterday a few changes for their, but not, I shouldn't call them changes because they've never had playoffs or a draft lottery before. Or they had one lottery. They just did it like the way that we, I think the first ever draft lottery, they just did it the way that we do a lottery when like you, me and Max are doing something. They just had like a website. They just wrote like Montreal, Toronto and like a fantasy football draft lottery is like Jana on like fantasy football draft lottery.com or whatever. Very funny. So I shouldn't call it changes.

But so essentially the league is announced that they are adopting the gold plan for their draft order selection process. which is essentially the concept that kind of came out back in 2012 from Adam Gold. I think it was the Sloan Analytics Conference, which I believe might be happening this week. It's usually around this time. It's kind of compelling timing that essentially says like you start collecting points once you're eliminated from the playoffs and then however many points you have in that kind of draft order point system will tell you who gets the first overall pick or the second. So in the PWHL, once you're eliminated from playoff contention and four teams make the

playoffs, so once you're eliminated, you'll start getting draft order points. And then it'll just be two teams who don't make the playoffs. So we're going to have a battle at the end between like Ottawa, New York for Sarah Filier, which I think is going to be really interesting. and then there's going to be a fight to the finish to finish first because for the playoffs, whoever finishes first gets to pick their first round opponent between the third and the fourth place teams, which I think is kind of great actually because the second place team will get to keep

their home ice advantage. So there's going to be some chaos there. I'm just curious, Sean, like let's start maybe with the draft lottery. Just what do you think about the PWHL making that change? And I know because McIndoo is a huge fan. Your friend and co-host McIndoo on Wednesdays. So what do you think? Are you team DGB on the Gold Plan?

Lots of people have made lucrative careers out of ripping off Sean McIndoo. Let me just say that. Present company included. And I'm glad to see the leagues are figuring it out too. That dude is an endless. stream of ideas, right? When it comes to that stuff, he knows which stuff to push. He's, he, and he does it in the right way.

So that dude has been, they might as well call the gold plan, the DGB plan for it, for as, for as hard as that dude is push it over the last couple years. So it's great to see them, them kind of adopt it. Now, if there's, if there's an issue with the gold plan, it's that it kind of just generally in any league where it were to be adopted, it would kind of put a little bit of a damper on the deadline, on the trade deadline. that's always that's always the concern right in the pw hl especially at the moment that does not matter because trades aren't going to have like as you've said trades there's going to be less trades and you see in other leagues because they're not trading draft picks yet so yeah this season less of the concern this season right so you know if if there's any concern like that's it and i for one don't really care about it in the first place and b it's like currently less of an

issue for that league than then there would be for others another fun thing about the gold too is that it doesn't just reward teams who accumulate points down the stretch. And I think that's something that people mischaracterize because you're, it's not just, if you're good at the end of the season, you know, you're rewarded. You have more time to accumulate points based on how truly terrible you are. So if you really stick, if you're the San Jose sharks or whatever, you have, you have, and you can start accumulating points the day you're eliminated. And that gives you a leg up on the teams and maybe hang around longer and wait until the last few days.

It's not just strictly about, you know, playing hard and avoiding tanking. Like, you are still rewarding teams that are fundamentally terrible, which I think is, you know, kind of, kind of an important part of that. But I love all of it. I think, you know, it speaks to something, speaks to something great about the PWHL, which you've seen from the start, is that they're not afraid because they're starting from a blank piece of paper. They're not afraid to incorporate stuff that maybe the NHL is, is, you know, can't quite stomach because of tradition and,

you know, power structures and then, and all that sort of stuff that PWHL has said, whether it's the jail break goal or whatever else. The three to one point system, which I also love. Of course. They're like,

you know, let's go. Let's do it. We're not tied to any preexisting system. Like, we might as well just make this as interesting and is in, and differentiate us ourselves as, much as we can't. So I love it. Yeah, I think, I think it's been really cool to see how they have

tinkered with things that don't inherently change the way the game is being played, right? Like, you've got the three to one point system, which is great. I think the jail break goal, too, and I've talked to players about it, like that's not changing how they, in the jail break rule for people who, who maybe don't know, if you score short-handed, your penalties, ends. Like if you score while you're short-handed, your player comes out of the box, which is, I think, such a great and fun role. But it's not inherently changing the way teams are penalty killing. I've talked to players that are like our first choice is obviously still to kill the penalty. But if you get an opportunity, yeah, you're going to take it. But like players aren't

saying like, I'm going to cheat out of the zone to try to score. Like you still have to, you still have to play defense. You still have to PK. But it's just added. like a fun layer to watching teams on the penalty kill. It adds like a fun extra layer to to games, right? And I think that's what the league has tried to do is, you know, make changes that can, you know, be more entertaining, get new fans in the building, like get more eyeballs on the, on the game, make things more fun.

And I just think it's been kind of cool to see. And like, Jane Hepard, I asked her about it. Like yesterday there was a mid-season avail with Jane Hufford. who's the senior vice president of hockey operations to the league in Stan Kasten, who's on the advisory board, friend of the show, Stan Kasten. And she said, like, the great thing is, is if one of these rules doesn't work, we can just go back to what's worked in the past. Like, we're not afraid to try something new.

And if we have to go back to what the tried and true method is from the NHL, we'll do it. Like, who cares? It's not that deep. Let's try this draft lottery. I think you said something too. I think you said something too that's important. And we saw it in action yesterday. The amount of attention that making decisions like this draws on the league is it's significant.

Right. So if you're if you are, because I saw people not even outside women's hockey, outside hockey entirely. They looked at that announcement yesterday about the gold plan because tanking is a problem across sports. It's something anybody who follows. is any sport or covers any sport has a vested interest in because it's a problem and in a in something that you know leagues are continually trying to solve so you make that announcement yesterday you got people who cover the NBA where it's a huge huge deal in particular in MLB where it's become a major issue over the last couple years too they're looking at that and they're saying look at

what the PWHL is doing and there is major major currency in that to the point where if it works is almost immaterial right like if it if it if it's if it turns out that this doesn't change anything and it, you know, if we're two years down the line and it's like having some kind of adverse effect on the deadline that they want to mitigate, like whatever. That's fine. Change it. Who cares?

It doesn't change the fact that here in February of 2024, they're doing something that is getting eyeballs on that sport outside the sphere entirely that they wouldn't otherwise. I think it's a great, great move. And I think we have to consider to, you know, the PWHL has had a very great start to, it's inaugural season, right? The average attendance is over 5,000 across the league in the first half. Things are going well.

We just had this big mid-season press conference where people are being like, are you going to expand already? Like, are you going to move to bigger buildings? Are you going to like raise the salary cap? Like, everything's going so well. So how are you going to improve everything? And I think from people in the league I've spoken to, it's like, yes, things are going really well right now.

But we need to make sure we can keep people's attention. you know, in the middle of March or May or, you know, in year two. And I think what the gold plan does is, you know, I think in terms of the actual draft order, it's not going to be as like fun and exciting because it's a 16 league versus if the NHL were to adopt it because there's 32 teams. There's more chaos that comes from that, right? But I think like at the end of the day, every team in the league anywhere in the standings is going to be going to be, going to be, playing meaningful hockey in the PWHL,

and these games are going to give fans a reason to watch, right? Like, can you imagine, you know, an early May game between, I should check the schedule, but, and I'm just projecting out based on where people are in the standings right now, but like a late season game between Austin and Ottawa, New York,

or whoever's bottom two, they face off at the end of the season, and they know that Sarah Filier, if there's an undisputed first overall pick this year, it's her, and they are taking it out to get the best, college player, the best player coming in this draft, like, that is exciting. That's going to get local fans to watch. It's going to get national people to watch because it's going to be like,

whoever wins this game or it's late in the season in Ottawa and whoever, the bottom two teams are tied and someone has to win to get Philly. Like, that's compelling. That's fun. And the league has done a good job so far of putting these peaks in, right? They had the first month of season, rah, rah, rah, right, super exciting, all these home openers. And then they, it got the Scotia Bank game and the All-Star game. Like they're really good at making sure that there's peaks of people saying like, it's the middle of February. How are we going to get people to watch the league?

Let's put something to grab everyone's attention again. And I think the gold plan is going to add some more towards the end of the year, which is already going to be, I think, a good time for people to watch because it's coming out of world championships. People are going to watch Canada or the U.S. or whoever win a gold medal and be like, ooh, I'm going to go and watch Taylor Heise play in Minnesota because I just watched her at Worlds and she's unbelievable. So the league has done a really good job at like putting in these, you know,

points of interest. And I think the gold plan is going to extend the level of interest that they're going to have late into the season when they're competing with a really important time in the NHL calendar. Because it is. It's the single most important thing that they can do is making sure that every game in one way or another has meaning. And that's,

and that's the way to do it towards the end. I think it's great. And I think it speaks to not. just a level of innovation, but a level of, or a level of like a willingness. Yes, a willingness to apply stuff like that they didn't invent a three to one plan. They just had the guts to actually put it in place, right? They didn't invent the concept of the jail break goal, but they're saying like, yeah, whatever, why not?

Let's let's do it. So I'm down. Okay. Last question, Sean. If you're the first place team, if you're Montreal, and you get to pick between the third and fourth place team to play in the playoffs. Are you just taking the fourth place team because you don't want to be bulletin board material for the third? Like, can you imagine picking the third place team because you're like we match up better against them and just getting dusted?

Because like that's the whole quote unquote bulletin board thing. So I, that's why one concern is that teams are going to be like boring and conservative about this and just pick the fourth. I think they probably will be, but just the idea. that they can add some level of drama. Even if it leads to the to the to the boring road's kind of conclusion, the fact that the road that you took there is a little bit more interesting than it would be otherwise counts for something. Yeah.

And they have 24 hours to make the decision, I think was one of the things as well. So it's like you can't just. What's going to be really fun is if it's in five years. And we're talking about an X team league with the number that's bigger than six. that's when it gets more interesting because the top team is only going to be choosing between two, right? They're choosing between four or six or eight. Yeah. Like I think it gets a lot more interesting and I hope it's still in place whenever the league does seem to expand.

Yeah. Okay. Well, fun. That's been the PWHL hot stove and this episode of the Athletic Coffee Show. Thanks everyone for listening. Just a reminder, you can leave us a rating and review if you're enjoying the show. We'd really appreciate that. And right now you can get a one year.

description to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. The Prospect Series with Max and Corey drops on Friday. Is Max going to record that show and not this show? Of course he is. His sinus infection is going to magically clear up by then, I'm sure. He's going to blow his nose and be able to talk on a podcast. Can I say something? Can I say something?

Yeah, for sure. PWHL Airfriar. It's not quite a hot stuff. Thank you very much. Let that sponsorship money roll in. That's what you can call it. I already have an air fryer. the PWHL it doesn't matter you have a stove too doesn't stop you from using it

anyways thanks everyone for listening I don't understand the air fryer thing thanks Sean welcome