The Athletic Hockey Show - Chris Therien's Road to Redemption is Philadelphia's story, Tampa Bay Lightning are good again and Alexander Ovechkin stalls at 800 goals

Episode Date: December 20, 2022

Craig and Sean discuss the resurgence of the Tampa Bay Lightning, and Steven Stamkos on the cusp of reaching another milestone, the guys take a look at Alexander Ovechkin's 2 game goal scoring slump and the Philadelphia Flyers transition year filled with injuries, indifferent play and already a 10 game losing streak under John Tortorella.Former Flyer Chris Therien joins Craig and Sean to discuss his new book 'Road to Redemption' why it's a Philly story, his battle with addiction, his new outlook on life with his family and what he thinks of the Flyers, including Tortorella's decision to recently bench Flyers leading scorer Kevin Hayes.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is The Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody. Welcome to your favorite American edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. I'm Craig Custins on a beautiful Tuesday here in Detroit as we prepare for Snowmageddon. Sean Gentilly. Don't say it. And part's unknown. Don't say it.

Why are you so present? What do you care, Sean? If people know where you are. Gosh, you're so private. It's nobody's business. Mm-hmm. I wish you didn't know. Well, don't Zoom then.

I know you're back. I know every, you could blur it all you watch. I know that room. I'm going to kill you. Good to have you back, man. Where did I go? It's been a while, I feel like. San Diego.

I know that was the one. We could talk about it after the fact. Nashville. Nashville, it's a great town. We've got a lot of work done. college football editors meetings. It was weird being like two blocks from the rink and not going to the rink. You started saying that?

I thought you were, I thought that was, I thought you're full of shit. I think I believe you. You actually did get work done in Nashville. We got a lot of work done. It was good. Really good. Nashville's, I mean, Nashville's awesome. Got to see Joe Rex Road, an old friend from Michigan State.

Now a great columnist for us. It was great. Thanks for looking after the shop while I was gone. John. How to go? I was okay. Yeah, I had to introduce segments and stuff like that, which not my strong suit, but, you know, whatever. Well, did you have any, like, major A-list Hollywood stars on his guest while I was gone?

Or just, maybe, maybe not. I can't believe. How about you check the feed and listen for yourself? How do we get? Is there a little bit? Thanks for asking. We've got a great show. Chris Tarion joins us to talk about the book he wrote.

It's real, I mean, the conversation was great. I'm pumped for everybody to hear it. Chris was awesome. Great storyteller. It's fun when people have more than, I mean, look, hockey books are fun, but he has a real story to tell. The book is called Road to Redemption. We get into that in segment two.

Segment one, the one thing, it's been fun. I love milestone watch. Alex Svechkin, the Capitals have scored. I think producer Jeff said nine goals in the last two games. none by Alex so he said I wanted it all to happen against the Red Wings in Wash with like the Howe family

I think Mark was in the game it was at the game it would have been really cool but Alex just didn't come through it's all right he never does there's one thing I've said about Alex Oveshkin the guy just doesn't have a sense at the moment never does anything memorable

oh my gosh we had me and Haley had Tarek on in a show that we recorded on Thursday and it dropped, you know, on Friday, early Friday morning. Tarek was doing TV that night for TNT, for Caps, hurricanes, maybe. I can't, I don't even remember. I don't remember who they were playing. But we just treated it as a foregone conclusion that it was going to, like, we were worried

about recording the interview because we thought it was going to be, we'll eventually have another hat trick and pass and pass how that night or whatever like the entire tone of the interview was this is a fait accompli like it's going to be done tonight or in the next two days

because we're like okay Saturday night against the Leafs Monday night against the like it's going to happen at some point to the point where I didn't even know who the caps play next like I just like zoned out and we're just talking about like it's a guarantee that this is going to happen

in the next in the next few days. So now we're looking at caps sends on Thursday night. Jets at Caps on Friday. Caps at Rangers on Tuesday and then sends again on the 29th. So those are the next four games. I mean, whatever. It would be great if it's Caps at Rangers. That would be a fun. That's it. Right. To do it. But I think, I mean, there's no way he doesn't score before that. I don't know. I mean, we'll see what happens.

We'll see what happens in that game against the Sends. That's the big one. If he can get one then, you know, so be it. I don't think he's putting in many against Hellebuck. He's good, who is both good and American.

And American. The milestone chase, we're not hearing, you know, quite as much about, but I have taken, Stephen Samcoe is one of my favorite players to watch,

to cover. everything about him. I love. And he's, you know, he's, he's pop, you know, he hit the 500 assist. Mark earlier, he's got past 1,000 points, which I still can't believe that we're at this point in our lives where Stephen Stamcoast is doing that. Three goals away from 500. Also, yeah, if you read The Athletic, www.com, you can read Pierre LeBron, wrote a story

about the Tampa Bay Lightning. I feel like this has now become an annual thing. Oh, yeah, the Lightning, by the way. pretty good still. And it's the same. I mean, I imagine this isn't a criticism of Pierre because I'm glad someone's mentioning it, but, you know,

the lightning are pretty good. And Stamcoast is about to hit some great, great milestones. And this is just an all-time situation down there. I think that's, it kind of goes hand in glove, you know, with,

you're saying that Samcoast is getting up toward a thousand points and blah, blah, blah, blah. He's got individual milestones. Tampa's playing well as a team. I think it's kind of, I think it makes sense, you know, we just sort of, we're already in that mode with them as, as happens when you win two cups in a row. Right. And you're like, we're ready to move on.

We're going to, yeah, we're either ready to move on or we're just going to put them on ice until like April. And whatever they do is fine, as long as nothing catastrophic happens. And as long as they're not on, you know, a 160 point pace. Like, we're, as long as the, as long as the extreme isn't to. isn't too ridiculous in either direction. We're just going to let them go. It makes sense that they're going to fall by the wayside.

There was like, there was a stretch last month where against logic and reason and past performance and whatever else, I was like, hmm, like should we be worried about this team a little bit? because the Atlantic's better, the Metro is deeper. The Atlantic's always been good. Like the Atlantic is a powerhouse.

Absolutely. But, I mean, we're talking like the Bruins, the Bruins truly look like, the Bruins look like a powerhouse. They're, you know, they're at an 839 points percentage, right? They're 25, 4 and 2. The Leafs are, are an elite team. And Buffalo is legitimately improved. and Detroit's legitimately improved

and Montreal is not a hard out. So there was reason to think, like maybe if all those teams could siphon away, you know, some points, and then you look at the metro where, you know, the devils have finally leveled up. There was a stretch where I was like,

is it possible that this doesn't, that this doesn't work out? And it was in, it was the start of November. They lost three or four, I think it was. Yeah. And it was stupid.

I'm stupid. Anybody who devotes like more than a few seconds of brain power to wondering whether this team is in trouble is stupid. Because immediately after that, after that like little mini, that like little mini skid that they had, they went on a 13-3 and zero tear. They've outscored their opponents 67 to 40 in that, in that span. and, you know, they're getting obviously great goal-tending and whatever else. So that's just a, you know, a 16 game, you know, rip off a tidy 26 out of 32 points, you know, nothing to worry about there. The only issue that I have, honestly, and it's, again, way too early,

and this guy is way too great a player to worry about in any real way. But something is up with Victor Hedman. He hasn't been great. And it might be, it might be a partner thing where he played a lot with Yon-Ruda the last however many years and Ruta's in Pittsburgh now. He's, you know, his consistent partner of the last 10 games has been Nick Purbix, right? Like, they're kind of throwing him against, they're kind of throwing them out there with, with whoever they can.

But his results haven't been great. And I, especially relative to the rest of that team. And I think it's not reason for concern, but it's just something to stick a pin in. But again, we saw this is what we saw from him in a couple years ago, right? Yeah, I feel like we've been to even this, where we're like, hmm, the one concern is Victor Headman. I don't even, like, why do we, why do I even feel the need to bring something like that up? I mean, I think it's, I think that's a feature, not a bug of yours, like to find maybe the one thing wrong in every situation, which you're really good at doing. Thank you.

But, I think you're welcome. But, like, I don't know. I mean, my concern level is at like zero with this team. And, you know, the one thing, you mentioned them kind of dipping. And there's some, you know, John Cooper, there's some really good thoughts from John Cooper in this piece from Pierre. But he just says, he tells the guys all the time. It doesn't matter where we finish. It's just about getting in.

And then it's about slugging through the playoffs, right? So they're allowed to go through their ups and downs. And really without anybody losing their minds, you might have noticed it, but I don't know, did you even write about it? Like, did any, was it even mentioned? Like, they're able to kind of work out, whatever they have to work out.

And, you know, and then we can parachute it and say, oh, the lightning is so really good. Yeah, because they get it and they have a track record. And I think the other thing is it doesn't, and this is a function of the, of the of the playoff format like it kind of doesn't matter where you finish it kind of it does not for anybody like like yeah it's you know that's what cooper say he flat out of say it doesn't matter just get in that's their mentality yeah and in i think that applies in two different reasons that

applies the lightning specifically because you know that they're just going to be ready on from moment one in the postseason like they know what it takes they know how it works put them up against anybody like who cares but it's also like I said it's a specific it more generally it's about it's about the playoffs because like you know unless you're look you do you want to be uh the if the caps sneak in and they're in the bottom wild card and they and they finish and they have to play the Bruins and the fur like no you don't you would rather that not happen but all those teams in the middle they're all the same they're all the same they're they're going to have to, and they're going to have to play each other eventually.

Like as long as you're not really, really, really good or making it in by the skinnier teeth, like the caliber of team that you play is, odds are is going to be pretty similar, regardless of who it is. So that applies doubly to the lightning because who gives a shit who they play. Like that, that really, really doesn't matter when you talk about them for sure. I like, I also like when I'm reading John Cooper, because he'll do this bit where he'll say, you know, what those guys in that room have accomplished is, incredible.

You know, like he's an observing third party. Like he's not in the middle of it. Like, John's unbelievable. He's great at what he does. And, you know, he deserves credit. The one thing he just said is, you know, once they get in the playoffs, and this is a direct quote, we get a lot of satisfaction out of plowing through people and getting to the top and staying there because it's hard.

It's a hard thing to do. And this is the important thing to me. This is what jumped out to me. This is, you never know when it's going to be gone. Like, they seem to be very aware. you know, because we've lived through it with some of these teams where all of a sudden you wake up and you're like, should we trade Patrick Kane? You know what I mean? And it's gone in a blink. And all of a sudden, you're like, remember when the lightning were good? And they seem to get that maybe more than,

there seems to be this thing of like, we're on the top of the mountain. We need to enjoy this. And this can be taken away from us at any moment. That's something. Now, it annoys me. It's something that generally annoys me with, because every fan base has a segment of like prospect huggers, right? Where they're like, you know, tear it down. We can't, we, we, we, too much to give up. First, a first round pick, uh, the third, the third, the third best prospecting organization, blah, but like, that's insane. Every fan base has that, has that element to it.

It is something, and I rarely say this, and I'm saying it less and less, that is something that generally respect about NHL organizations from the top down is that they know what it is that they is that they very rarely reject the gift

of having a of having a contending team like they're willing to go all in they're willing to add right they're not going to like do a too early rebuild and that's not I don't think about baseball in comparison right now specifically

right where you have teams that are terrified of the of the luxury tax and right you know what in whatever that those franchises are run as line items for you know corporations and and billionaires in a way that in a way that's just not true for for hockey teams do you think it's the financial like the the not to get baseball hockey comparison but um like you can lose forever in baseball and make a lot of money oh oh yes Oh, I know. I don't know if you were aware of that in Pittsburgh. You can, you can, so there's no motivation.

I don't know the, we don't, like, it's interesting in baseball. Like the Braves have had to open their book up because I think they're a publicly traded company. So we've gotten a glimpse into like just how, how valuable these teams, these franchises are and how much money they're making. Even without a cap, by the way, for those, those, you know, folks that, and they're doing really well. So there's no motivation. I don't know if hockey has the same. It's because...

You can mail it in where you need... I think you need those playoffs... Where it's obvious, and every home playoff game is a million and a half bucks or whatever that number is. So that needs to be part of the equation occasionally. I think the main... You know, the main kind of explanation there

is that hockey teams don't get enough rev-sharing to survive on their own. Like, you can't just take... You can't just take your cut of the league-wide HR-R pie and just be like this is this is good this is good for me whereas that can happen with baseball that's what it's what the pirates have done for right decades decades now they take their segment of of of of revenue of revenue sharing money add some at the gate you know how they have their local they have their local deal and they run the business to make a certain amount of money every

year like do we know for sure that that's the way the pirates are run no because they're their books aren't open, but all available logic points to that. And that's a luxury that they have as a baseball team that the Nashville Predators or whatever can't compete with. Like they need, those teams need to make the playoffs. Now, and that introduces all sorts of other problems where you have teams that are content just to, you know. Yeah, like we just got to get in and get three games of playoff revenue and we're fine. Boy, wouldn't it be great if we can make the second. round. And then if that happens, mission accomplished, like way to go, everybody.

Right. And that's, that's, you know, a different set of problems. But at least the efforts there. And that is something that I do respect about hockey teams is that the effort is by and large there, unless they're deliberately trying to list for, for Connor Boudard, which also is happening. Also, which is a nice segue to the Philadelphia Flyers. Not deliberately tried to be loose, but hey, they're in the conversation. Maybe they are. We've got Chris Tarian coming up in the second segment. He's great. And we even get some Flyers talk about. is tacked on at the end. There's a lot going on there.

I do kind of wish we would have talked to him for about the Flyers a little bit longer. The Kim Atkinson news dropped like kind of right before, right before we talked to, right before we talked to Chris where he's out for the season and, and whatever. The Fires have gotten here, honestly.

They're the six worst or whatever it is that have the six lowest points percentage in the league. Like, with a level of sincerity that I think we haven't seen from other teams. But yeah, Chris has some thoughts on that. All right. Let's get to that interview. We'll be right back.

And then we're joined by Chris Taryn. We are now thrilled to be joined by Chris Tarian, who, I mean, you know Chris, you know his accomplishments. You may or may not know he's an author. I hope you know, because he, he, he, His book, Road to Redemption is out now. Great holiday gift. If you're, what is, how many more shopping days? You said, Sean, we can, we can.

I think it's, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't count. Is that five or six? Amazon, I'll still get it to you. Go to Barnes & Noble. Anywhere it's sold. Pick it up. It's great. Chris, thanks for, congratulations on the book.

And thanks for joining us. I'm pumped to talk. Guys, it's so great to be on with you guys. And, yeah, I really appreciate the introduction. and yeah, Barnes and Noble, Amazon.com, Triumph Books, who did a great job publishing it as well, triumphbooks.com. So, yeah, it's out there,

and I'm looking forward to talking about it because I think beyond what the hockey stories and the hockey part of it, there's a human element story to this that I think would touch just about every person or every family that you could think of when it comes to addiction. So I'm really happy and excited to talk about it, but also what the book has meant to different people. for what they're looking for.

And I think that's what's kind of interesting about it. You know, Sean, you mentioned before we came on, you know, it's a, it's a hockey book, but it's, it's a human book as well with an addiction story to tell and one that that kind of brings out the hope in it. And I think that's really what, it did exactly what I wanted it to do. That's great. I'm always, you know, you want to walk this fine line between, like, talking about some of the stories in the book without giving it away.

But I, you mentioned something about how sometimes your approach about writing a book and as a former player. People want the stories from the locker room and a book starts one way and it ends up going in another. So I love talking about the process. And in this case, it sounds like it was an interesting process. Can you just take us through that and how that maybe switched from, you know, or even balancing the hockey plus, you know, your personal story? You know what? It's interesting how and everything like in life is about timing and things, how they line up together. And it's what's interesting is it was about October of 2020. And I'd just been relieved of duties from the flyers. being player, broadcaster,

more, many different hats for over 25 years. And I realized at a time that I, you know, that what I had done in that same decade prior to that was, you know, I got sober. You know, I cleaned up my life and I, at the end of my career, which was so tough. But, you know, I focused on the things that mattered, my kids, family, friends.

And I just tried to be a better person. But what was interesting was I, you know, triumphed and said, listen, you know, we'd contacted you before. And, you know, you played in Philly along. time in the 90s was an era, you know, an area that was very polarized from the outside, from what people did or did not know about what went on in the 90s. Because we, you know, ultimately, I think we had the best team that did not win in that

generation. And amazing teams every year that easily could have won every year, but it just didn't happen. And so I think there was a part of that to people that they wanted to have that story. But when Bill Ames at Triumph Books had called Wayne Fish, who co-authored it and actually authored it, you know, I see. say, listen, I'm ready to come forward with a story that I think transcends just hockey and transcends what my life in hockey was. You know, I have a personal journey story that I'd love to share. I'm ready to share it. It will be completely unfiltered and totally honest because there's no other

way to do it. And that's how I ended up, you know, sharing with people that I had something special coming. And, you know, it was a difficult thing to do. But I think honestly, you know, since, you know, when people that have struggled with with drugs or alcohol or issues, you know, in their life of mental health, the more clean they're able to come with it. I think that there's a healing that takes place with that as well. I think I'd healed long before that. At least I'd like to think so. It's a daily body of work for me, though, you know, to make sure I'd maintain the good

things I'm doing and the person I've become. You know, I don't say that like I was a bad, evil guy before. I had an affinity for drinking. You know, I didn't, I love people. I love the game, the people around the game, everybody. But when someone's struggling with addiction, it's really hard for others to understand that. And that's what I wanted to lay out for people, just have. how difficult it is and to not take it as lightly as some people do because, let's face it,

you know, guys last year and you get into numbers with drugs, you know, nothing killed young, younger adults, you know, from 18 to 45 than accidental poisoning of fentanyl. You know, it's in drugs coming across, people try things. But this is a serious, serious epidemic right now in this country. And there has to be people talking about this, having the discussion daily. And that's what I'm trying to do with the book. It's what I tried to do, what I was starting to do before the book came out. And that's really letting people know if you're struggling with addiction, like, it's okay.

You know, like people, people, it happens. It doesn't pick or choose, but that's ultimately what I do now in my regular day. But this book has certainly helped get that message across as well, guys. How did you find the balance between including all those good bits from the 90s where it's like, here's, here's a bit about Eric Lindrauss. Here's a great Craig Brubay anecdote with, you know, the more like addiction and recovery based. stuff. Like I like, because that, because that is, it's a tough balance of strike. And I think you did it. But was it, was that like a feeling out process to, to kind of come to come to the proportion? Yeah. I think like the one thing is just understanding who I was. Like, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't Joe Montana of hockey. You know, like it wasn't, you know, I had a good career. I played a long time. It's a good guy in the room, you know, played, played the top role for many years. But this was a regional story that had to be told, you know, if I was going to try to sell this story in, you know, San Francisco, it people be like, oh, oh, yeah, maybe a couple people know. People know. who I was, but it had to be sold in Philly, because ultimately, to me, this is a Philadelphia story in a lot of ways. Because the community-based here, people wouldn't know that the amount

of kind souls that I've passed in my time in the Delaware Valley here in Philadelphia on my journey to recovery, you know, I can't thank enough people for that, you know, and that's all over the place, too. There's people that have helped me, and they don't even know they help me, but I know who they were, you know, and so those are little things that meant something to me. You know, I think doing a story, you know, obviously, you know, of having played 12 years and hearing a ton of games for the organization and having a historical understanding of the franchise and what it stands for.

I think that we had to get into telling some of those 90s stories. You know, me and John LeClair were roommates for 10 years. I mean, I have some epic stories. I could have written three books alone on that rather than one chapter. People were like, wow, that's really good something. You know, Eric as well. You know, people said that someone said that I had nothing but bad things

to say about Eric. I didn't. That was what we went through, you know, at the time, with Lindros in the locker room and stuff the one on. Nothing that was said was something that wasn't before. I think you got a little bit more insight into the player dynamics surrounding that whole situation. But, you know, from my side, everything was truthful. I don't think you could tell a story of the 90s without, you know, having something with Bob Clark and Eric Lindross and Ed Snyder in there. I mean, it was,

it was the soap opera inside. It would have been, it would have been weird if you made it through like 98, 99 and didn't address it because that's, you know. Yeah. It just, would have been. And there's just, there was a lot to say. But, you know, like, there's nobody that I didn't, you know, I came across in my, my hockey journeys. Like, you know, I always saw Bob Clark had great teams in Philadelphia with good bunch of guys. Obviously, someone who put together teams over the years, he understood that. But, you know, my hockey journey, other than my lap, until my last year after that lockout, I had, I had a lot, so many great, great moments. And, you know, that's part of the thing. I don't want people to think that my journey was this thing that was stripped of it from it from addiction or alcohol. I had a wonderful career. And sadly, my very last. I year and only a handful of games is when I really delve deep down into that rabbit hole that I couldn't get out of until I decided I needed to. I think the timeline was pretty clear. Like I like as I was reading it like you can tell that by the end it was it was an issue, but it was something that had been basically, you know, in check, even starting with college and

all that stuff. I really, I really did. I really did enjoy it. I wanted to ask specifically about Craig Barubei because, you know, I'm always fascinated when I see whether it's, whether it's former athletes. who write books like this or any kind of memoir, it's always fascinating to me to see who gets chosen to write the prolog. And I saw what, you know, Brubay kept it like pretty short and pretty sweet,

but it was direct and it was there and he pops up, you know, several times, you know, over the course of the book. So what made you pick him? I think I know what you're going to say. But like, what was, he seems like he was your guy in a lot of different capacities, right? he was a lot of guys guy like he was just he was a man's man you know came in i played against him with washington we'd had you know lord knows enough beacon off at each other he was the kind of guy where he was sitting there going man i wish this guy were on my team so he wasn't distracting after

every single whistle when he's on the ice but you know what he just became we became fast friends you know he played and a lot of it too like when he came in here there was rick talk it was here you know mark racky and you kind of transcend back to the 80s a little bit with with a couple guys like that. So this, you know, the part that they'd been with the organization before, they were leaders. Craig Barubi, I knew what a great hockey guy he was. There was no surprise when he ended up to me winning in St. Louis and just transcending a team. But beyond that, a solid human being, ultimately a guy that I ran with pretty good in my day too. And at the same time, there he was with that compassion and concern for a fellow teammate, you know,

towards the end for me. And, you know, he's a guy we text a couple times a week, not talk once or twice a week still. And, you know, and that, that's a relationship that will, that will transcend a long time. There's a lot of guys. Many guys like that I played with that I just have had just so much respect for that it helped me when, you know, when things were down. And that didn't forget who I was when I was a player. So I'm grateful and I'm grateful for Chief, you know, to have had, have had him in my life. I'm certainly glad that he was able to put a few words down, you know, in honor of what the book was.

I thought one interesting part, you mentioned, you know, reaching out to Paul Holmgren and how supportive he was. And I would like to hear, you know, that story a little bit, and especially through the lens of just how much, you know, alcohol is part of the culture in that era, especially. It may be less so now because athletes, yeah, have found other ways to dull the pain, I guess. But really. But in that era, it was, you know, filled the bathtub and the hotel up with ice. and throw beer in it after the game and let's go. And so when you say, hey, I think I've got a problem, I think it's hard because it's such a part of that life.

What was that moment like for you? Yeah, and I think anybody that gets to that point has had a build up to that, Craig. You know, like I've had stuff probably going. And I would say, you know, from 2000, there was probably the year 2000, it was probably a time where I said, you know, maybe I, you know, overdid a little bit, you know, where you'd be a little bit too hungover in the morning. And it wasn't every day drinking, which it ended up becoming. But that's when I went to Paul and I said, listen, I'm really having a hard time here.

And, you know, as somebody that's, you know, been open as well about his own sobriety. I mean, he'd welcome me with open arms and just, you know, really helped me, you know, in terms of, you know, getting toward, getting to a place that he got to where he's able to get, you know, sober. And it wasn't, you know, it wasn't that time that it ended up happening. My road ended up being totally different, you know, I ended up probably playing two or three more years after the fact that I even thought I had a problem where, you know, know, I said to him, but, you know, no one doesn't, you know, I didn't do anything. I just kept playing.

I was playing good till really good hockey still, still focus most of the time. It was really post-2004 lockout that I think everything went to hell. I shouldn't even said, like, I should not have been playing in 2005, 2006. I was so far gone in terms of where my alcohol was. But that's where you need people to be able to go to them, you know, former athlete, guy like Paul Homer, who was, you know, going to be the GM and president of the team, but certainly someone that had been had felt that before and understood it. And I think that, you know, I needed that. I didn't have, you don't have a lot when you're, when you're marred in the,

and the throes of addiction. You don't have a, you don't, you know, you almost lose your soul in a lot of ways. And so it's really nice to be able to have another adult, uh, letting you know that, you know what, these things happen and it's going to be okay. And, uh, but you got to put the work in. You know, if you want to have a life that's meaningful, you have to be able to, to quit that stuff and, uh, and to put it behind you. And that's something that I, that I do one day at a time.

And that's, that's part of my journey. You said it takes 10 years, I think you either wrote, said it as an interview or wrote it in the book, but you thought maybe it was a switch. You could just be like, okay, I've got a problem. Let's deal with this. And then it was like, oh, wait, this is a decade's worth of effort. When did you realize that's what it was going to take? Because, you know, there's so much damage that you do, right? First of all, the damage you do on yourself, the pride you strip yourself of, you know, he's a proud guy.

And I imagine, like, here I was. I was in the Stanley Cup finals. I was a top pair of offense with the same guy for 10 years. I was a likable guy in the locker room. You know, I never heard it. You know, I was a good teammate. But, you know, I hear I was. And so it destroys the fabric of what you are.

I mean, I see people drink and it doesn't look like it affects them. I can't believe that it doesn't because anyone that overdrinks or over exerts anything of one thing too much doesn't end well. And that's where I, that's, you know, just what I felt about myself. But, yeah, I felt like, you know, once you begin to have your. family, your friends kind of get past the fact that this is what you struggle with. You are, you know, as an alcoholic, and then to forgive yourself and then to be able to get yourself back on a path, we're able to walk again without having, wondering if people are looking at you anymore.

Part of that is, you know, that self-care and self, you know, identification of who we are. I can walk in my own shoes now. I don't care people know who I am because I know that me being honest is going to help somebody else. So, but, you know, to put just making amends, putting everything back together again, having trust built back in you again from other people, it takes time. And that's why I said from day one until the time that you probably feel like you've gotten at the end of that journey where you're still moving, it felt like it took 10 years.

So I implore people. If you don't need to go through this, please don't. It's worthless. You know, at the end of the day, the drinking was fun. Some of those nights out in the game and part of the culture you talked about going to bars, it was a great time. Yes, I had a good time. But ultimately, it wasn't worth, you know, what I had to go through to get back to

what was a normal life. So I think it was February 7th, 2011, right? That was, that's your date. How do you honor that as you call it your second birthday? It pops up a few times throughout the book. That's a big day in an important day. How do you honor that the specificity of that date with the fact that it is, like you said, one day at a time?

Because there's two, I feel like there might be two, you're getting pulled and two different directions where you're like, this is it. This is like the day I was reborn. This is, you know, a one most important moment, but it still is a gradual everyday process. It is. And that's the way I try to simplify things. You know, there's a whole process. I don't want to get the audience too confused. I always say, people always say when I first came in, there's this godfaring moment that's involved with addiction. And I didn't know what that was at first. Now, did I have it? It did. And it's not what people would think. But there's something that's carried me along this journey that's more powerful than myself. And there has to be. And that's,

that's part of just being, you know, part of, uh, part of, uh, shedding that the iron or that the, the iron that we put on ourselves, right, to let that off and be able to live a life that's more fulfilling and not have to struggle with addiction. So I think, you know, from, from that standpoint, yes, February 7th, that's, that's, that was my rebirth. That's the day that I tend to keep that date one day and time. And that's it. You know what? I deal with people coming in all the time, um, into the program, you know, where they admit, hey, I got a problem. And I tell people, if you want to reach out to me, all you got to do is say I need help. That's the hardest part.

Three words is ultimately the hardest part because once you do that, other people will help you. So I've had to trust myself. I've had to trust the other people. But also knowing that really, truly, Sean, one day at a time is how it's done. It's a daily reprieve. And that's how you end up building up 10 years or 15 years. You know, when I first came in, I wasn't like any other, you know, probably competitive of athlete, but I wanted 10 years tomorrow, and I was on day one. And I realized that that

just wasn't going to be the way it was. And I get anxiety about it. I'm like, oh, why can't I have what that guy has? Well, now someone's looking at me saying the same thing, because I'm coming up, you know, 11 years and three quarters I'm at now. And one day to time, you know, and when I get to February 7th, which you're pretty sure I'm going to, that'll be 12 years. And you know what? And I start working on the next year. But it's a daily reprieve. And that's what I tell people. Just let go. Don't white knuckle it. Don't let it own your life, but you can. One day to time, just tell yourself, you know what, not today. And then that'll happen and do the same thing again tomorrow, and that's how you build up time. This is spoken like someone who runs a recovery

facility, right? With this is, this is the work you've done with limitless recovery talking. That's, that's your spot. You mentioned it as a Philly story, you know, you run it out of Fishtown, right? I just wanted to hear about the work you're doing there and maybe how that helps you with your with your day-by-day approach. So what happened was, guys, a great story. It's how I ended up getting involved in this whole, you know, business model type of thing. As I said, I was looking right away. So what else?

You know, I'm not doing hockey now. And what else would I like to do? And it was what I was doing already was helping people, but it was trying to do it in a more of a formal way. So, yeah, Fishtown is a very small section of Philadelphia. It's right. It's just on the outside of downtown. We came in as limitless. It was a prior business.

Now we've merged myself and a couple of other partners and merged with a place called Pennsylvania Recovery Center. So we're Pennsylvania Recovery Center, Fishtown. But one thing I needed to do that was really, really important is where I went to rehab was a place called Karen, Karen Treatment Center. It's in Warner'sville, Pennsylvania. It's one of the best places in the entire world, certainly in the country. I also do, I also help brand there and help get people in the treatment there at a bigger place where they have 30, 60, 90 day stays.

So I've really, really inundated myself in this entire market, whether it's, you know, and the place in Fishtown in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania Recovery Center guys, they are aftercare market. And that's one of the biggest things. You know, when I talk to people in NHL community or sports communities, when I talk about recovery, It's great when, you know, the NHL puts guys away for 30, 60, 90 days, sometimes four months to get their going to, moving ahead with their addiction or mental health issues. The one thing, the league and all these leagues need to do a better job of is aftercare. You know, guys come out of a rehab for, like, I'm going to say this. I'm no names. I had a former NHL player who knew, you know, knows my story, got out of a NHL sanctioned recovery center last week.

and he called me two days after he was out and said, hey, Bundy, what's going on? How's everything going? And I asked me, said, what are you doing? Where were you? Like, were you, are you an aftercare? Oh, I'm just going to AA meetings when I can. That's, that's no good.

If you're spending $60,000 to send somebody away for 30 days to get them clean, the biggest run of the work comes in the aftercare. It's what, it's being able to live on the streets again, to go back and do your job. For me, the greatest blessing I had was being a broadcast. You know, like, you can't go up tanked up in the radio booth or on TV, which I've done both. So I was blessed to have had a job by the Flyers, Paul Holmer, and that would allow me to move forward. But there's guys out there struggling, lots of them, alumni.

And they need a far better system for aftercare. And that's why I started, when I started, was with the aftercare market. Because I understand that people need to live. They need to be able to do those things that were once a hindrance to them that would drive them to a liquor store. or do their drug dealer, they need to be able to get on the street and to be able to live knowing that that might happen and they're going to have to live with it and deal with it. Why do you think the NHL, why there's a lack of focus on aftercare? I just don't think they, I don't think they know.

They just don't know. You know, I mean, it's, listen, I think it's amazing. The NHL does an incredible job getting guys to recovery, getting them to rehab. That's great. They write the check, the guys out of their hair for 30 or days or 60 days. But when that guy gets out, this is not a younger guy either. You can't just expect the guy to go for 30 days and then all of a sudden living alone, not near her to show up at AA.

That's not a model for success. And that's what I've been trying to challenge the league saying, we need to do a better job of this. Too many guys suffer. They suffer on the street. They're suffering before. And a 30-day reprieve is great, but it's not enough. I want to have people understand. I want them to be able to live a life that I have and to know that you can be sober,

that you can be happy again and that you can have all the things you've wanted, that letting them know that that addiction was nothing more than a roadblock for you and that you can have success in life and be fulfilled at every turn. You've used the word fulfilled or fulfilledment a few times just in the payoff. Where do you see that fulfillment the most in your life now? You've put in the work and now you get a little bit of the reward and that's what it looks like. What does it look like for you? Yeah, you got great question, Craig.

You know what? And for me, it's my kids, right? Like, you know, my oldest, Isabella, I have amazing kids. I have three daughters and his son. You know, my daughters are, none of them are under 20, 22, and 24. And my oldest one, Isabella was the one that had seen the most. She was 12 when I mailed it in for the last time. But, you know, they ended up, so my daughters ended up becoming great basketball players.

And they all started around when Isabella was about 12 or 13. And she's just one of those naturals. And I saw the joy in their face and her face. And my son was so young at the time. He's a little guy. He's not now. He's bigger than me. And he's 16.

But, uh, how big is he? He's too big to play hockey now, guys. He plays football. So he's like 6.5, 245 and he's 16. And I'm like, no, that's, that's a football player. So hockey, I don't know. It's just, it's a changing game.

because I don't want like a five-five guy going between his legs. But, yeah, the fulfillment. And you know what's fine. And I saw those girls go out and you know what? They became some of the best basketball players in South Jersey. They all went on to play Division I basketball at the same school. They all played together except the oldest and the youngest. It was not by design.

They went to Loyola University of Maryland. But, you know, I always said when I go to those gyms when Isabelle was her first year high school, was like a 13 or 14-year-old. I was so determined to, you know, You guys saw Hoosiers, right? Mm-hmm. So remember that scene where Dennis Hopper walks in the gym just completely loaded high school basketball game.

And I'm thinking that will never happen to me. I'll never allow that, do that to my kids. And I never did. So I've watched them, you know, have success after success. And I don't say that because, you know, I was an athlete there or my wife was a, you know, tall, you know, athlete as well. I say it because they were allowed to spread their own wings, you know, and to be the people they were supposed to do.

be without having that hindrance. So for me, my reward is being able to watch them grow, watch all my kids grow with success, to know that someday they can look. No matter what, I still have shortcomings and false guys, many of them. I'm not perfect by any stretch, but I want my kids be able to look when they're 30 and 40 and say, wow, you know what? Like my dad had a pair of roads that he was coming up against and he chose the right one for us. And I think that to me is the greatest success. I hear parents all the time, her kids, you know, like tax me said, you know, Chris, I grew up an alcoholic family. You know, thanks for talking about what you're doing.

And again, I know there's another alcoholic or someone else out there that can change the same way I did and make those same lasting impacts on their families as well and friends. All right. I want to talk, we got a minute left or whatever. I want to talk flyers. But before we get to that, it's a mess, if there's somebody that's listening right now that wants to say, hey, Chris, I need help. And they know you can help them maybe more than anybody.

how should they reach out to you? Like I just, maybe there's one person listening that's like, all right, I'm ready. Like how should they reach out to you? Yeah. And you know,

you can get me in any social media platform, Facebook like messenger, Twitter, DMs, but also I have a special email. It's, my nickname is Bundy. It always has been.

It's Bundy Recovery at Christyrean.com. Bundy Recovery at Christyrean. com. And all you have to do is just, you know, say your name. I need help and someone, in myself or someone will be in touch with you.

And we'll try to get you, you know, stabilize and evaluate and see, you know, what kind of help you need. We'll be there for you. I can promise you that. I will be there for you. That's great. No easy segue to talking about Kevin Hayes or whatever. But, I mean, you're looking at this team and, you know, what do you see right now?

I mean, Cam Atkinson News is, you know, out, he's out for the year at Kevin Hayes is benched. What do you see from your perspective? Well, I mean, it's been gone. It's gone on for a while. You know, I think in a lot of ways, like I go down to the rink now, and the rink seems a lot, it's a lot better atmosphere at the buildings now in terms of like what they, from what they were looking to do from the past.

But, you know, the problem with Philadelphia, they care about their hockey. They want to see a good hockey team. And quite frankly, they've been treated for a long time to good hockey in Philadelphia. Yeah, Hayes, you know, out of the lineup. I mean, torts, you guys have been around way too long as well to, you know,

to know what we're dealing with with torts. And, you know, he's been the same everywhere, right? Like, you know, he's been the same everywhere, right? Like, you know, he talks to, you know, a female reporter as he would talk to a 65-year-old male reporter, Sam Cartcidi. So, I mean, we know what we're getting. And he doesn't, you know, I mean, honestly, to me, guys, I think he looks at the team and he's like, we're not going to win. So if a guy, my guy is my top point producer, but he's not setting the right example in the D zone and defensively for any young guy that we think that's going to be retainable here, then he's not going to play in my lineup. And probably somewhere along the lines, there's an absolute clear message right to the top.

brass as well, the general manager from where torts is at. I mean, listen, guys, he came in here. He's a good coach, right? He does win. He gets the most out of guys. He's already had a 10-game losing streak on his watch. And I can assure you, John Tororell is not happy about that. No. Do you think this was a necessary kind of season for them to have where it's been a bottom out? You know, there's me a lot of, there's me a lot of ping pong balls in that in that draft lottery machine, whether they wanted it that way or not. I'm with you, Sean. Like, you know, And again, like I don't like to ever say tank. I'm not that.

I'm a competitive guy. And I don't believe that's a model of success. But they probably could have been a lot closer to the bottom right now that they are. I don't want to say in a bad way. But, you know, you got a generational type talent coming in. And I don't want to say, you know, again, there's other teams doing it. But it looks like he's going to be wearing a purple duck out the West Coast anyway. The way these are going.

But anyway, yeah, the flyers needed. I agree with you guys. I'll wrap with this. They did, but they needed to actually say this is a rebuild rather than a retool. A retool is just garbage to the fans here because they're not stupid. Like everybody sees what's going on. Now you've got all these high-end contracts that are not even in the lineup. So it's a problem.

But, you know, Torz has done one thing. I'll say that, guys. He's made the team at least competitive with a work ethic on the ice. They just limit a lot of the talent and high-end players that are going to get you up over the high. Well, Chris, thanks for doing this. Congratulations again. Thanks for the people you're helping. I'm sure you're already hearing from people about the book and how it's impacted them.

And that's amazing. And so I hope it's, you know, I hope everyone reads it over the next few weeks and years. Guys, thanks so much. Happy holidays. Merry Christmas. And I really, really appreciate having me on. And that's the point of the book ultimately, guys, is to give it a read. And I always said, was somebody struggling?

I'll leave it at this last point. Somebody's struggling. I think you're going to find a blueprint or a roadmap to that last hurdle. It's in there if you can find it. But it is in there. And I've had people already say it after one month, say, hey, Chris, I got one month. I read your book. That to me is music to my ears, especially at Christmas.

Thanks very much, guys. The name of the book, again, is Road to Redemption. It's available. I like to say wherever books are sold, but I don't think that's true ever. No. I don't know. Why do you say that? Isn't that just what you say?

Wherever books are sold. But they sell books at supermarket. Garage sales. Yeah. Can you go and find, can you go and find your book at, you know, at, uh, at a mire by you? I don't think so. We might have to have Chris Beck on just to talk more flyers misery because what a. They're so bad.

The one, the one thing that I disagree with him on is he's like, well, they're not going to be able to finish with them. They're not going to finish that low. Oh, they might. They may. 422 points percentage, they're just right ahead of the coyotes there. They're right ahead of the sharks. I don't, now, everybody's making fun of the Anaheim ducks, rightfully so, right? And the Blackhawks, those are far and away, the two ugliest teams to watch at the moment.

Philly's got one more win than the ducks in three more than Chicago, and Kim Atkinson's down for the season. And I don't think anybody should, I don't think it's a lock that Carter Hart can drag them, you know. I don't know, man. Yeah, at some point he runs out of gas or the team, you know, these games are going to get harder in the second half or this, you know, when teams are fighting to get the playoffs, do the fires really? I think they're, I think they're terrible, but like I intellectually can't, as bad as they are, I watch enough of the ducks. And I've read enough about the Blackhawks because, guys. God knows I'm not watching them.

I've read enough from Lazz and Powers about that team. They're just next level atrocious. But are the Flyers my pick to finish with a third worst record in the league? Sure are. They're bad. Just give them a chance. I believe him. I believe in a lot.

All right. We will be right back our favorite segment. If people are people even questions this while? You know what? We're about to find. I don't know if we haven't looked. You're right bad This is the only good segment on the show

It's back Because Craig's back Do you think that's like a bad tactical decision by me That I don't go into the comments Whenever you're not around Like should I The next time Next time you have better things to do

Than hang out with me Should I just You don't know We have to save them up And let them build up Yeah right I think that's I think that's the right

move. The main thing was, here's why we didn't, here's why we haven't done this in a couple weeks. I don't care about Max, right? Like, Max is. That's well documented. Just generally, personally, professionally. Not fond of him. I didn't want to expose JR to the disgusting animal minds of little sickos in our comments. Yeah, JR is such a pure soul. He is. He is. And he doesn't need to this bullshit, honestly. Max, he's... Actually, really, Max is two, if we're being real. I've known, listen. Just such sickos like us.

Both of us have known Max. I've known Max since he was 19 years old. I've been around him way too long. You, you hired him out of school. Like, we've been around... Because you told me to. Uh-huh, I did. That is...

That's the backstory. Didn't even interview him, honestly. He was just like, no. My buddy Sean says you good. You want a job? But like he's been around long enough. JR is, JR's his own,

what I'm saying is that Max is a product of our, of our hard work over the years. That it is. That's a creation of Sean and Craig's doing nothing to do with Max. Here's the main thing. Anytime, no, not at all.

Anytime Max writes something good or talks about cool shit on the prospect, on the prospect show, just remember. Remember where he came from. That's right. It's very godmothers in this business. Good work, Sean, on that one. Yeah, point being is like, who cares about Max?

But JR's, Jayr's his aunt, man, and he doesn't need to, and he's a sweetie pie. He doesn't need to, he doesn't need to see her bullshit. No. So could I say, so we have to go back because I've been out for a while, as Sean has reminded me three times in this podcast. Never outside the pod. How about that? I'm not like texting you, but.

Occasionally, I'll get a text from Sean. Are you working or you just? St. Louis, huh? Nashville, huh? Those are San Diego. San Diego. So we had to go back to the Bobby Holick interview, which was, I think, in November. It might have been.

It was close enough to Thanksgiving that, like, I was coming back from Atlanta to do the Bobby Halleek interview. Here's a couple of thoughts before we dive in. I mean, so since then, it's, you know, Bobby and I have been texting back and forth. I hadn't talked to him in years as we documented on that interview. this is a guy he's such a good dude Bobby he finds he found out I don't know during the course of our interview or whatever that I had written a book and so he buys the book and then he over this course of the last month or whatever he's reading it and giving me his thoughts on each of the coaches and their styles and whether or not I should have included them at all

and it's all it is I mean hey I wish I had spoiler spoiler he thinks you should he thinks maybe you should have made some cuts. Well, it's easy to see now with hindsight. But it was like, it's just really, and then at the end, he, you know, kind of writes this really long text of, you know, his thoughts and just kind of congratulating me and how much he appreciated the, you just, and it was just, I don't know, like, I don't do those kind of things. I don't talk to somebody and then support them and pump them.

Like, I love people like that that are just, aren't thinking just about themselves. the two of us. That's also not true. You do that. That's false modesty. I mean, maybe. Ariel are right. So we'll talk a little bit about the Bobby O'Leley because it was good.

I'm glad people liked it and listened to it. Awesome interview. Can we get Holik on a speaking tour? Can we get the three of us? Would anyone go see you and me and Bobby do a tour of like, it would have to be like Florida, Montana, Michigan and. Yeah, how about this? Like, how long would we go before, like, I, like, did the old, all right, time out.

Uncle. Yeah. Yeah, you didn't enjoy any of this as much as I did. I, no, I loved, I love talking to him. I just think me and Bobby, I don't think it would take too long. As our, as our comfort level grew with each other, I think we would get into arguments pretty quickly. Let's just, let's just sit down. I think it would be productive.

Ariel writes, being able to speak truth to power or even standing up to authority is a perfect place to begin to change hockey culture that may be better received than current attempts. Amen. She's talking about Bobby in that capacity. You know, because he tells the story about his dad and like sticking up for what you believe in and fighting the authorities. Like that's needed as much now as it was. Yeah. This sports sucks. It's full of goblins and freaks.

Like, I don't care. A lot of horrible people involved with us. Just put a pin in that one. That's true. It's true. There's also a call to record a live version of the only good segment on the show at Tipsy McStaggers. We will have to do it at some time. We have to do that, right?

Here's what I love about all that whole bit is the folks at Tipsy McStaggers have no idea. Like, they don't know they're being, like they've gotten, they've gotten, you would think they're sponsoring the show.

And if we went there and we're like, do you mind if we held a pod? They'd be like, who are you people? Why? Why? I mean, I guess if you,

they probably want to pay us to pay to rent out the space, which is fine. They name their show after a Simpsons joke. Like they have to be, somebody at the top of the tipsy McSaggers food chain has a sense of humor. So maybe we need to

get in front of them. So we can sit at a table and eat cheese sticks. And with one or two people ambling by and wondering why we're talking into microphones while we do it. That'd be fun. I would, I am in on that. No, like I'll even give out T-shirts. Will you, um, let's see. Tuesday Boy's T-shirts without the logo that we've designed on AI.

Can I, um, yeah, which by the way, we have. a bunch that we've sent back and forth. AI design logos. If we do do that, can I... Expense your drive. Yeah. Can I get mileage from my drive, or would it just

be a rental car situation? It depends. I don't know. I got to look at the budget. I haven't thought about this. What is your... You don't know? You're supposed to know this shit. If we do it, here's the real answer to do it in... You have transcended the need to even know like what the individual travel policy is.

If we do it in 2023, we're fine. We're a little tight right now. End of the year. We're squeezing. It's because of all my trips. Oh, really? I wanted to do this on Christmas. Damn.

Here's, so Joe T. write something. I'm sorry, I'm reading all of these. It's been a while and fun. So Joe T. write something and I'm going to, once upon a time, Craig had a podcast called The Full 60, which is true. He had lots of good guests.

Like Greg Wyshinski, Sean McIndoo. Oh, for two. Why did Sean Gentilly never appear on the full 60? I don't know if that's true, by the way, Joe T. Is this because Craig secretly hates SG, possibly? If he secretly hates me, he's got a very odd way of showing it. I will just, I will just leave it at that. I'm playing the long game.

Did Did SG turn down the request Because he hates Craig? You're getting a little warmer there maybe Producer Jeff, We couldn't land Sean Gentilly There's a story here According to Joe T

You were on No And I shouldn't have been No, who cares Like oh we're gonna talk to the To the internet guy From the Pittsburgh Post Gazette Who gives a shit

Nobody would Nobody Nobody cares to hear for me now, let alone, let alone a couple years ago. That's not true. I would, let's fire up the old full 60 machine, do a full 60 where I'm just grilling you about your career arc. And how I was involved in every step of the way.

Wichinsky did that to me on Puck Soup, on like the original version of Puck Soup, where it was Greg, like, he would have like a big guest every week. Yeah, I was, I was, uh, I did it. I did that back then. So here's my airport. story ties to this. I'm flying back from San Diego, James Myrtle and Aaron Yominson

are, I run to them at the airport. I brought a couple hockey editors out. Guess what? Guess what? I heard this. It's very funny. I just wanted to say that, you know? So I'm talking. So the only reason this is because I must have been talking really loud in the, and some dude comes up to me, I think

his name is Sam and I appreciate it. It says, hey, are you Craig Custin's? And I'm like, yeah, I thought I'd left my like passport or something on the And he's like, hey, I'm a huge fan and I'm a huge fan of the full 60. And this is he, and James Myrtle says, he's like, I really miss it. You know, I wish you were still doing it. Myrtle then pipes in who's listening to this all very amused and says, well, he still does a Tuesday show with Chuditilly to which the guy goes, yeah, but it's not the same.

He's right. He's right. and then I understand and then I'm like oh this is James Merle and he's like oh this wow James Myrtle Wow you're tall James and Aaron Aaron's

Aaron's tall Aaron's tall man but Aaron also is an editor and had never covered the leaves So I don't think like He wasn't kidding Who cares about Aaron You know

I am not tall taller than Sean who claims to be 510 That is fucking not true I am taller than you are I am not saying that I'm tall either. Average size man. Why am I doing? Do you have your phone even out?

No. You were letting it rip, dude. All right, fine. Okay. Keep going. Fine. All right, Nick Kay. Ryan Reynolds,

Mint Mobile ad to open the episode, was there? Ryan Reynolds. Reynolds is buying the senators and moving them to Albuquerque, confirmed. It's the only way. Oh, let's get them in America. That would be great. by Craig and in quotes here

absent podcast father Custins and Sean don't call me gentle gentility What is this the Bobby Holy This is still the Bobby comments Yeah

I mean Are there more episodes going through Idiot I don't know Maybe I don't know This is the last one I want

But Gen F just says I love SG with two exclamation points Thanks Jen for the shadow There's two people on the show Merry Christmas to you.

My favorite, my favorite listener. Oh, the other, the thing that I did want to say was after the Tuesday episode, after our last Tuesday episode with Derek Colon. It was great, by the way. Lots of fun. Carlos L. Craig sure has taken long to buy one pack of smokes. It's true. Dad said he was going to 7-11, never came back.

That was, I'm sure I've shared this. I had an uncle that did that at every Christmas party. He was my favorite uncle. Come in. We forgot the butter. Someone needs butter. Out the back door. Unreal.

Hopped on his Harley. Is he still around? How's he doing? Rest in peace, Uncle Tom. Damn. The best. Flannels, keys on his waist. This guy, by the way, okay.

Beard? Flannel. He's on his waist. Three. The flannel's unbuttoned, four buttons down. Okay, four. Might have, might have cracked my wrist. grandma's ribs giving her a hug.

Real intent, like, and then we just. I can't, I can't, I can't claim that one. But we're talking four, four personality traits in mine right there. Flannel guy. Oh, you're saying, you would have hit it off. You would have loved Uncle Tom.

I'm saying, I'm saying, do you have a Harley? Were you in a, um, he was in a biker gang? There's a lot here. No. Okay, that's where our path is a verge. Flannel and keys on the waist, though. We're there still. You have keys in the waist guy?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I grew up going up. It's a, there's a very, anybody who wears their keys in a carabiner on their belt loop, uh, I would say is probably between the ages of 33 and 40 and spent most of the odds going to, uh, punk and emo shows and still in it and has it as a, you know, personality trait that's left over. I still do.

Yeah. Okay. Connor R. writes, are the Blues this year's Dallas team from last season, win three, lose eight, win seven, five hundred hockey? They're not because they're not going to make the playoffs. That was the defining trade of Dallas last season, was that they did it long enough to sneak in, or they did it effectively enough to sneak into the playoffs, and I do not see that happening

with St. Louis. But you never know, man. They've won four in a row. Like, that's where they are. So, well, they're in one of those things. The hell do I know. So Connor, thankfully, because he knows I'm not watching hockey, breaks it down for me. He says, oh, just so Craig grasped the concept, if their season was a Wilco song, it would be, I am trying to break your heart.

I think maybe it's misunderstood. Maybe the blues are misunderstood. Also, I'm getting quite embarrassed by Binnington's bullshit. Well, Connor. You know who wasn't John Hamm? I don't know if he listened to that. was like I was about to I was about to ask him the Bennington question. This is right after Bennington had a freak out on Jason Zucker and a couple days after he tried to try to hit Mark,

tried to hit one of the stalls and got knocked on his ass. Just embarrassing shit from him. And I wanted to ask, I wanted to ask him about it specifically. And then him had one brought up Bennington on his own and was calling him Binner. And it was clear that they were like friends and it hung out. So I had to scratch that question from the... That's a good audible by you. From the list. Yeah.

Like, you think... Jordan Biddington, he seems like a real jackass. And he's playing like shit. What do you think, John? Him. No, bitter? Oh, yeah. But see, but see, I pulled the shoot on that one.

I said, I asked myself, what would Craig do, even though he's not here? That's right. Just... No, he's in San Diego. Before every question. Tyler M. says, I can't wait until Canadian Christmas for my Tuesday boys. Three Zs. Slippers, which we need to produce,

that's three boxing days and a Royal Canadian Mounted Police Remembrance Day too long. That's funny. Also, I don't know, buddy, I, bad news for you. Canadian Christmas, well, it's five days ago. It's on December 15th. Did you get anything?

No. Why would I get anything? Michael B. Because we will also read critical comments as much as people want to say we don't. A lot of people are saying we don't, but we do. If you don't like something about the show, we'll read it. Michael B says, I'm calling you guys out.

You failed to ask a huge and obvious question to Bobby Holik. Does he agree with Hachik that the NHL should send home all the Russian players? An otherwise great interview. But man, you whiffed on not asking that question. After hearing about Haleek's father, I would have liked his perspective. Sean, chance to respond. Yeah, I kind of wish we'd done it too, honestly. I was thinking about it in the moment.

It's just one of those things where it's a tough, tough subject. And I think we freeform a lot of these discussions. And, you know, it just didn't. Yeah, maybe we did whiff. Maybe it is that simple. But I was trying to think of a, if you ask that question, you need to be prepared that it just, that it just blows up the entire interview, I think.

Right. Are you ready? So, I mean, my strategy is always tack that one at the end. Yeah. Are we ready to talk about this either for another half hour or end the interview immediately? And it just didn't, I don't know, like the way things were going, it just didn't, it just didn't lend itself to that. But I do, on some level, I do wish, I do wish we would have asked. Here's, here's what I'll say. I didn't even think of it. So that's probably even more egregious. It didn't even, like, I was just. You know what?

I almost don't agree. I think I'm the one that blew it a little bit more than you did. How about this? If somebody blew it, it was probably me because the thought did cross my mind. I think Bobby would have been financing. Like, I don't think it would have been like, like, what I always appreciated about Bobby was he didn't get mad about any line of questioning generally. Especially if it was a good thought-out question.

Like, he would get mad if you ask dumb questions. questions. That was what really would, he would, like, after a game or he'd be like, were you even watching and you get, like, but I think something like that that we say, hey, where are you on this issue? And I actually, you know, maybe we'll have him back on or I can just ask him. I think it's an interesting topic. Um, I kind of have, I'm going to, I don't want to like ascribe anything to him, but I think his answer maybe would have gone in the opposite direction from what a lot of people are thinking here. Bobby's a, like, a realist.

He's a capitalist. And he's, and he's, and he's going to say, like, these guys deserve, we might be going down a rough path here. But, but I'm not, I'm not, I'm, yeah, you know, I'm, that's a bad, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, it's a, it would have been. But no, it would have been, it would have been, it would have been interesting, and I should have asked the question. And I didn't. So, my bad. Good work. Josh, Josh, uh, uh, I apologize, uh, uh, I apologize, I apologize, to Josh R. If you've already done this trip, which is probably what happened here. This could be answered by both of you, but mainly directed towards Sean since you live there.

I'm making a trip up to Pittsburgh in December. I hope it's December 30th for my first Penguins game and I'm staying in the downtown area where some food bars. I saw this dude and forgot. This is local places I need to check out while I'm there. I'm there for around one and a half days outside the game. So I've got some time for new places. Sean, I just hope you guys answer this before my trip, which is December 3rd. I added the last part.

So for future reference, someone's staying downtown, what, what, where are you directing them for like a night of get the, get the local scene? Downtown's tough because it's, it's a lot better than it used to be. There's more stuff to do. It's still just not, it's not where I hang out. I live in the neighborhoods east of east of downtown and that's where I spend most of my time. But there are some, there are some fun spots downtown. I just, you need to be aware that the arena is probably like a half mile from like the core of the city.

And at the moment, a half mile from anything that you would actually want to do because the bars around the arena themselves are either closed or, whack. So stick around market square. If you like watching if you like watching live sports, city works is a great is a great big sports bar down there. If the weather's nice,

Sienna Mercado is a cool bar. There's a nice rooftop there. It's three different levels. They have pretty good food. Just hang around. Hang around the actual downtown area. Don't expect to find anything fun by the arena because it just doesn't really exist.

Remember the time we took Barry Marros and Steve Levy to Shales? Amazing. William T. says, Tuesday boys need a podcast beef. We need a rival. Real mid-90s, East Coast, West Coast, rap beef. Outside of other athletic pods. So we can't take on other days of the week, which we already do. We all know we hate the Monday show.

Sean's connection to puck soup would make that too weird. Maybe Dimitri? Maybe the PDO cast. Maybe Dimitri. Steve Dangel? Too many men? we need some dis pods. Oh, man.

I don't know if we can handle taking on too many men. No. No, I'm not, I wouldn't take on too many men on my best day. Dangl, though, I'd be happy to. Yeah. I mean, maybe Demetri's answer. Dimitri is, Demetri is a chiller, man. I don't know if, I don't know if he would even take the bait.

The problem is that it's all either, all of these. Every hockey podcast either features one of our friends or a former player, which makes it tough. Yeah. We'll keep thinking on it. What other podcasts are that? Like, let's take on like Ray Ferraros. Ray and Dregs. How about Elliot?

How about American Elliott, the 30? How many of the thoughts are they now? Thomas W. That's a juggernaut. I don't know if I don't want any part of that one. Yeah, we'll get our clocks cleaned. Let's punch down. Yeah, totally.

Grab more of the locked on local podcast and start shit with them. You hear that locked on predators? Locked on Hads. Locked on Havs. Laura Saba, you're on notice here. Last question. Maybe you can answer this one, Sean. This is from Thomas W.

Honestly, as a non-media person, what does an editor do? I know you're valuable, but I just never understood. did it. Those are two different. I don't edit. I'm more of a manager. Yeah. This is a distinction.

Editors are super valuable. Like, editors are the ones that save us from ourselves as writers. And they come up with great ideas. And they, you know, they improve the copy so that what you read is coherent and great. I love editors. What I do is not as I'm, you know, managing the staff and I don't know, what does it I do, Sean? I think your personality management, larger editorial, you know, vision, you implement, implement that. It's putting out fires.

That's all it is constantly. Putting out fires, nonstop, in negotiating contracts, which I can't wait to do with Sean. get ready bud 23 yeah that's happening huh okay me versus you at the negotiating table I'm sure that'll be a real a real tete a tete

make an offer say okay I think there's a very it seems like it's one of those things where dorks on Twitter like very writerly you know self-styled writers

always like complaining about their editors and saying they did this and that like somebody i'm trying to find this tweet and i can't find out but somebody was like made it compare somebody was basically saying that editors aren't necessary this is like last week are not necessary yeah oh gosh and use the most tortured analogy that involved bread it was like think of it this way like imagine sliced bread like you don't need the plastic bag with the it was the most like tortured analogy comparing bread to editors it's like this is buddy this is example A, as to why editors are necessary, because if you had one, he or she would have

told you to cut the shit on your ridiculous, on your ridiculous analogy and start from scratch. Anybody who says that is a lot of grief. Yeah, from whether it's someone who's just doing a copy edit and checking for grammar or someone who's editing for content or if it's someone who you're doing contract negotiations with in nine months or whatever it is. everybody's important. And if you're trying to get me to shit on any on any stripe of editor here, it's, it's not going to happen.

You're not going to hear it except for me be correct. So should we do the contract negotiations and the third segment one day? Yeah. How about that? Speaking of editors, a hearty congratulations to Alex Inegas. Yeah. And his wife, Nicole, who welcomed twins into the world Miles. Julian. Alex is one of our

NHL editors, senior editor, and he's graded his job. All around great guy, and now he has twins, so best of luck, Alex, on that. Worked with Alex. Alex is why I worked at the Post Gazette. I bought Alex's car from him whenever he moved to Seattle. He's one of my very, very best friends.

And he did like a guest name pool on his boys. I was... How to go? Did you get it? I was... Dude, I always... I almost, I almost went with Julian, no joke. Alex loves the strokes. Julian Casablancus is the lead singer of the strokes.

That's not why he named the boy Julian, but I was trying to like, Alex loves music and stuff. I was trying to come with with connections there. And I almost pulled the trigger. But congrats to him. Congrats to Nicole. They're two, two wonderful people. Well, we didn't get to our, Tage Thompson is better than Mario Lemieux portion.

We can save that, actually. We'll save that. Huge thanks to Chris Tarian for joining the podcast. Again, the book is Road to Redemption. Huge thanks to producer Jeff for constantly bringing on great guests. We have to tell Jeff, like, hey, we don't want to do that much to quit bringing in so many good guests. Maybe he's like, hey, we can probably add two or three more. I'm like, no, come on.

We're going to have, there will be a guess at some point in January, I would bet, where, that we had to bump basically from today and be like, yeah, same for the new year. Same for the new year. Rapizo, Mike Russo, and Jesse Granger, welcome. Kevin Adams. And Tage Thompson. Oh, and Tadden finished reading. I was excited about Kevin Adams.

And Tage Thompson to the roundtable. Someone should ask. I want Kevin Adams on this podcast. I hope someone asks Tage how it feels to be better than Mary L.M.U. or a modern-day marionleum. Yeah. Kelly McCriman, GM of the Vegas Golden Knights,

Luke Hughes, captain of the U.S. World Junior team with Haley and Sean on the Friday show. Wow. You guys are loaded enough. By the way,

we haven't done either of those yet. So those could be, you never know. Possibly. To be determined. Lastly, don't forget, well, not lastly, because I got three months.

Don't forget to subscribe to the athletic hockey show on YouTube. That's at YouTube.com. slash at sign the athletic hockey show. Smash the subscribe button. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave a rating, would you?

Only if it's good. Only if it's good. And those of you who like Sean, I see you in the comment section. Give them some love on the reviews because we know the haters have no problems dropping it. There's only a couple of them. The haters, of which there are many.

The Tuesday Boys, we are off for the rest of the 2020. after this, we sign off here. We will be back Tuesday, January 3rd. Maybe I haven't committed to that. Come on. We got to talk about the new year. I can't. I can't do this on my own.

Max doesn't help. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays to everybody. Happy New Year. Sean, my only Christmas ask is that you bring back the Manscape Santa Claus one last time. Lawnmower 6.0! Merry Christmas, everyone.

Merry Christmas. That's great. Little Craig Costings. Little Craig Costings.