The Athletic Hockey Show - Colorado facing an Avalanche of Injuries, Mitch Marner point streak continues and Shane Wright exacts revenge on Montreal Canadiens

Episode Date: December 7, 2022

On the heels of the news that Nathan MacKinnon will be out for a month, Peter Baugh joins Rob, Jesse and guest co-host Joe Smith to discuss the injury riddled defending Stanley Cup champions and to promote his new book:  Force of Nature: Joe Sakic, a star studded team and how the Colorado Avalanche built a Stanley Cup winner.Plus, the roundtable looks back on Paul Maurice's return to Winnipeg, the Jets turnaround with Rick Bowness this season, Shane Wright's revenge against the Montreal Canadiens, Mitch Marner's point streak extended and we discuss where we think trade chips Brock Boeser and Patrick Kane may end up. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What's going on, guys? Welcome to another athletic hockey show. Wednesday Roundtable edition. I am Rob Beasel from CBC Sports, joined, as always, by Jesse Granger in Vegas. How are you, sir? I'm doing well. How are you?

I'm doing good. We got Joe Smith today in Calgary. Who knows where Russo is? Probably just taking the day off, relax. The beach in California somewhere with a nice hot coffee. He always claims he's too busy. Get Joe to jump in. there.

But yeah, so we got Joe, and we're happy about it. You're in Calgary, right? Yeah, I want the athletic to open a Banff Bureau. I think it'd be great. I think it'd be a lot of writers who would pitch to cover a team in Banff or a never-round Banff. But, yeah, it's really cold, which is I'm lying inside here talking to you guys. Stay inside, talk hockey.

That's what my whole life pretty much is living in Canada. And we're going to talk to Peter Ball a little later on in the show about the injury-riddled Colorado Avalanche, guys, I feel like these guys are just going to come out for practice and everyone's going to have a red jersey on. Just like, nobody touch anybody because we can't afford any, any more injuries. Five of their top six forwards are gone. But we'll talk more about that with Peter in segment two. But we've got like a whole, sometimes our shows guys are like two or three topics and we really get deep into them. And sometimes we've got like 50 topics because it's been a busy week and that's what we do here. So it's going to be the latter today. I'm going to let you know. So let's

get right into it with some stuff from last night. Paul Maurice, back in Winnipeg for the first time as a head coach now of, of course, the Florida Panthers. Got a nice little welcome back with assistant Jamie Compton, got emotional. Jesse knows how I feel about video tributes. I'm not a huge fan of them. Fitched about him last week. But it was, it was nice to see as he was back. And like I said, he looked like he was on the verge of tears and the Winnipeg Jets fans saying, hey, welcome back, Paul. Would you think of this, Jesse? Yeah, it was good. And I actually had the same thing happen with the team I was covering. Bruce Cassidy was back in Boston. And they got a pretty good tribute for him. And he mentioned after the game that he was a little choked up by it. Not a great welcome

back to Winnipeg, though, right? As the Panthers get kind of thumped. And to me, it brings it back to how many times do we hear, like, good goalies make coaches look good and bad goalies make coaches look bad. And this was a kid, I mean, you look at the shots on goal. The Panthers dominated this game. 41 shots on goal, but Connor Hellebuck was just too good. And meanwhile, Spencer Knight gets pulled after allowing three goals on 15 shots. I think this Panthers team is ripe for a regression back to being good. I think that when I look at their record and then I look at.

at their stats. It's like this team is much, much better than it, the record indicates and the outcomes have indicated. But we'll see if their goalies can get it back together. But yeah, it's, it's funny that Paul Maurice couldn't get elite Hellebuck last year. It was a down year for his standards. And that was, I think, part of what led to him leaving. And then he comes back and his goalies in Florida are not playing well. And Hellebuck's playing lights out and they can't get a goal by him. To your point, Jesse, John Cooper is the longest head your coach in the NHL and guess who has the best say percentage as a team in the 10 years he's coached to Tampa Bay Lightning.

Yep. And I was a great coach and it'll be a hall of favor. No question, but a good goal tending can make you look a lot better behind the bench. But I was curious what you guys thought of Shively's quote after the game. So accountability with bonus and how much fun he's baited every day and obviously controversial decision to change the captaincy there before the season. But I know everybody gets a new coach bump going into a season. Like, oh, everybody's excited as a fresh voice.

But do you make anything more of that than just, him be excited about being the new coach or was a little bit of a dig at Paul Maurice? I don't take it as a dig. I think any time a team's struggling, and how many times did Paul Maurice say it in the press conference? This team needs a new voice. You could have the greatest coach on planet Earth. Sometimes you just need that change.

And I think that's where the Jets were. And it's funny that he mentioned that afterwards because bonus, you know, he kind of made news a couple days ago. Remember, you know, they had that slow start against the ducks. They come back to win. And usually when you do that, a coach. is singing the praises of his team. And he said, quote, I'm not a babysitter.

Babysitter. These guys are men. They're professionals and they're paid to show up to go to work. My job is to make that happen. You cannot play this game without passion, without emotion. You cannot play this game on your heels. I hate when we're on our heels. That's accountability right there, right?

Yeah. And I think a lot of times when you see a firing work and turn a team around, I think they're going kind of from one style of coaching to the opposite. And I think that's kind of what you see here. You mentioned they need a new voice, but I think it's also just a different style of coaching. Paul Maurice is not a fiery guy. He's kind of, I mean, he can be at times, but for the most part, he's really calculated. He's a strategist. He's kind of laid back. And then you go to Bonas, who's more of a, like, drill sergeant. He's going to get these guys. You say accountability, that's probably the number one word that's

going to come up with him. I feel like going from one style to a very, very different style. is key to getting a new voice. It's got to be something different. And I was on a bonus for a number of years in Tampa, and I never seen a guy show up the rink without a smile on his face. Like, these are the happiest, I mean, I'm not easy. Like, I swear to a guy every day. Like, he was like, it was like, born into the league of this is his first day.

Like, he was so, and the guys loved it. And guys had been, everybody loved his passion and isn't, they know how much he cares. And he's in, he's going for his first Stanley Cup after a million games in the NHL. I think people are to be pushed by that. Yeah, very interesting. And quickly going back to Maurice.

I want to throw this in there, one of four coaches with 1,400 or more games and no Stanley Cup. The other one's Lindy Ruff, Pat Quinn, and Ron Wilson. More from last night, Mitch Marner picks up an assistant in the first period, extends his point streak to 20 games, fourth active player and just seventh in the past 30 years to record a point in 20 or more games. It's interesting when a guy's got a streak. You'll watch the hockey game a little bit differently, but pretty impressive from Mitch smarter, you know, and probably good to get it out in the first period as well.

Would you think, Joe? Well, if you're a fantasy owner, you're pretty happy right now, right? So it's, and I think especially streaks are really impressive in this national hockey need no matter what you do, but especially in the pressure cooker of Toronto and all, and what's going on with that team after last year and to come in here and just get off this kind of start and really scoring some key coals and all those, those aren't garbage points he's scoring, right? Some key moments.

So I think that's going to do a lot for him mentally. the confidence-wise and pressure off his back a little bit, at least until April 7th or April 8th. But it's obviously a cool thing for fantasy owners and obviously a cool thing for a player who loves to have some confidence and so good juju on their side. Yeah, I think it's also just a product of the leifes are playing really well and scoring a bunch of goals right now.

Like the goal he scored, I mean, his point last night was he didn't do anything special. I mean, it was an assist and it wasn't like he set up the goal. Like he just kind of threw a puck on net and got a good bounce. Leafs bury it and he gets the point. And then you go to the game before that against Tampa when I think they actually ended up losing that game, but he scored two big goals, one short-handed, where they were applying a bunch of pressure on the forecheck and then he scored on the power play, I think, to tie it late. So he's, he's making some great individual plays. But in order to have this many games in a row with a point, you've got to, to me, it's a product of you're playing on a

good team, you're playing a bunch of minutes. The puck's going to have come off your stick and go into the net every once in a while when it's not even you making a great play. And you're not going to be able to have a beautiful setup for a backdoor goal every single night. So I think it's a product of the Leafs are playing really good hockey and scoring a bunch of goals right now. Well, yeah, they've turned that thing around in Toronto in the month of November because anytime you have a slow start to the scenes, guys, I don't know if you know this. There's a lot of attention in Toronto on this hockey team. And, you know, things were just set the whole place on fire after that October. A couple of things that we still have to talk about from last night, Devils, they won.

Big shocker, guys. 21, 4 and 1. They've won 18 of their last 20 games. And this is the stat that really jumped out to me. They've allowed one goal or less nine times this season, which is one more than all of last year. Where did this devil's team come from? I mean, I know we're going to bring up the draft. I know everything else.

But I don't think anyone expected 21, 4 and 1 on December the 7. Jesse? Well, we said last year, I mean, we were saying it all last year. this team is playing great 5-1-5 hockey. Like if you look at their underlying metrics, they are controlling the chances like a top five team in the league. And the goalies are just a sieve back there. And we're like, can they get a better goalie?

Well, they bring in Vitech, Vanichick. Not a superstar. Most people, I think when they made that move, said, really, that's your solution? Like, okay, well, Vanichick's been great. I mean, he just got his second shot out of the season last night. He's fourth in the NHL and safe percentage. I think he's a product of the defense in front of him. Do I think he's the fourth best goal in the league? Obviously not. But he's playing solid. He's got a good defense in front of him. We've talked about it before with the devils. I'm so impressed by the way they're defending. I think when you think of them, you think of this young team that's got a bunch of stars that are scoring really cool goals. But at the same time, the difference has been the goal tending and the way they're defending. And like you mentioned, one goal or less in a ton of games, this team's playing.

and really good hockey. You have a case of a lot of you really talented young players' top picks coming into their own and finding some confidence. And when the team wins and gets off to a good start, it does a world for the room. And I think it's not just young players. Michelle did a great job bringing in some character guys, some championship level players. Like Andre Pilate, I know he's hurt right now. He'll be back in February probably.

But getting those guys that can, those guys can learn from and follow the lead with in the room or in the gym and all that stuff. So I think, like you mentioned, they played 5 on 5 last year was good, getting a goal attending makes any team good, makes any coach smarter. And I think just having those young players who people thought would be superstars in their own right when they were drafted, number one, number two overall are being those big-time guys. Cindy Crosby scored two more goals last night, guys.

He's now got 15 on the season, 532 for his career, and Cindy Crosby is on pace for 47 goals this year. We shouldn't be surprised when Cindy Crosby does awesome things because Cindy Crosby's been awesome since he first put on skates. but man, oh man, he's 35 and he's making it look like he still is Sid the kid. So I'll ask you this, over or under 40 goals for Cindy Crosby this year. Joe?

Over. I think over. And like, you get the penguins were in deep trouble before the streak, right? Like they were banged up and they weren't playing well. I mean, I think, you know, he's obviously been on a role. He could continue this role as the season goes on. But I think it's kind of funny, I talk to a veteran NFL player there today. And he's like, yeah, talk about college veteran players.

Like, you're younger, you're older than us. you know, 35 is not 50, you know, like, in the grand scheme of things, like 32-year-old player, 34-year-old player isn't an ancient figure, might need to stretch. But I guess in hockey or or sports terms, all those, the veteran labels gets put on there. I don't know, man. I'm 32. And when I'm, when I come home from my men's league games, my hips are feeling it. No, but seriously, I mean, Crosby, he's, he's obviously ridiculous. What stands out to me is, I haven't watched a ton of Penguins games like the whole game, but I do see the highlights every, every morning.

And his goals are coming from the dirty areas. Yeah. The two goals last night, the one where he's falling down and he still is able to lift it over the pad and get it in. Like, he is, this is not a guy who is avoiding the hard areas of the ice to go to. I mean, he's, he's 35, he's a veteran. He's on a team that maybe doesn't look like it's destined to, on a deep playoff run. Like, they're just scratching and clawing just to get into the playoffs. He's had all of his cups.

He's won everything there is to win. It would be very easy for Sidney Crosby to sit along the outside of the zone and collect his points when he gets them. But no, this team was struggling. He is going to, I guarantee it's in his mind, he's not only is he going there to get these goals. He's going there set examples for all the players around him. If Sidney Crosby's going to the middle of the ice to get a dirty rebound goal, why aren't we all? It's just, it just shows you this guy, he may not be the most talented hockey player ever, but he is just the team. play. Like he is still the same guy that he's been his whole career. He is leading that

team. And to the best of his ability, it's really fun to watch. To me, it stands out that he's not scoring these, these fancy goals, I guess. He's, he's going to the hard areas of the ice and, and getting beat up to get these goals. He was sick yesterday. He wasn't going to play, but he's like, no, I want to play. Those are the games when you're 35 and you're Cindy Crosby and you've been doing it for those are the games where you go, you know what? Yeah. Those are body maintenance day. Those are body maintenance days, man. Exactly. But we've heard this about him before. It really got put on full display. I remember with HBO 24-7. He's not human. And the players who are like that on that level, you hear the Michael Jordan stories and the, you know, the Kobe story, they're not human. They

have this switch that we don't have. And that's what makes them who they are. He's taking, Sidney Crosby could have retired years ago, and no one would have said, well, you missed up. No, he's accomplished everything he could ever want to accomplish, and he's still out there accomplishing it. And I, for one, think it's awesome. The hunger's still there. Yeah.

And I think he will need to be, like, dragged away from the league kicking and screaming when someone's just like, Sid, you know, I know you love the game, but it's time to hang him up. But until he regresses in any way, I don't want to see him hang him up. Shane Wright got recalled by the Cracket again last night, guys, or again, got recalled by the Cracken to take on, oh, look at that, the Montreal Canadians, the team that passed on him with the number one pick in the draft, the team that he apparently was staring down at the draft. I don't know how much truth there was to that, but he was sent down to Coachella Valley in the HL. He was scratcher five straight games with Seattle, scored four goals in five games in the HL, comes up, last night and scores his first NHL goal.

I love seeing guys score their first NHL goal. It's one of my favorite things in the world. But seeing how often is the first NHL goal a revenge goal? Like, how often do you ever see that? Like you can tell he was like, yes, I scored against the team I wanted to get back after not draft to me number one. Would you think that one, Jesse? Yeah, it was great.

It was great management by the Cracken to say, you know what? If we're going to get him up for a game, I think this is the one to get him up for. And of course, he scores. Right. One. Yeah, only one. No more than that.

It's going to be interesting to see what they do with him. But yeah, I mean, it was cool. We all were watching last night knowing. Narrative is such a funny thing in sports. It feels like going into a game, like Phil Kessel is hitting his Iron Man's record in Vegas. Like, of course, he hadn't scored in 18 games. Of course he scores tonight. It just seems to happen that way every single time.

It's amazing. how the narrative writes itself in these situations. We all were watching this game for Shane Wright versus Montreal, and he hadn't scored up before this, and of course he scores. It's great theater, and I think our colleague Arpin did a great job last night, covering it all with the emotions of it. And we were all at the draft, right? And you saw kind of how awkward it was when Shane Wright kept on falling,

and the crowd was like, what's going on? And so to see the guy, it wasn't Aaron Rogers waiting forever to get picked, but it was longer than he'd probably have thought. And for all the crap to crack and took this year for how they've handled Shane Wright and the patience or the fans maybe might not have for that. But I think it was the right way thing to do and he got some confidence back in the H.L. And it'll be a goal who'll remember the rest of his life. And whether he goes, World Juniors gets more confidence and maybe comes back and plays more, we don't know. But certainly that's something that'll stick in his mind for a long time.

It takes a lot of abuse. You get a lot of abuse when you do this with a star player. I mean, I remember seeing it with Jason Spetsa, too, you know, so many years ago where people want to see this. The consensus number one, hey, we got him at number four. He should be playing 20 minutes a game and doing this. Whereas you think, guys, this is a process like any other process. He's got a mature. He's got, as you mentioned, Joe, his confidence was not there.

One assist in seven games and his ice time just kept dwindling. Then he's a healthy scratch. I like what they're doing with Shane Wright. And maybe five years from now, we'll look back at his rookie season and go, you see, that did work. That's just me. What do you guys say? Look at the Wilde too,

Marco Rossi, you know, and he's on the NHL right now. He had zero goals in 16 games. The Wild absolutely needed to have a guy like that play after Fiala was gone and all that stuff to get more offense. He wasn't going there offensively. So they said, hey, this is better for him to play 20 minutes

in the power play in the NHL versus up here on a fourth line with Connor Dew. We're playing eight nine minutes and kind of that. And this will maybe be the best thing that ever happened to Marco Rossi. You know, I know fans want to see him now. They want to see him. yesterday. They want to see Shade Wright

with Betty Berners lighting the place up, but the Crackett are winning. The Cracken are one of the best teams in the Western Conference. That's the one thing two people forget. Not a developmental league in the NHL. It's winning in the National Hockey League, right? So I think it's one of the bigger things that people are missing in this whole Shade Right situation.

Yeah, I totally agree with that last point by Joe. This team is winning. They're in the playoffs right now. They're trying to make the playoffs. If this team was in the last place in the Pacific, it's a different story. It's let's get him some NHL minutes. Let's make sure he's ready for next year when he and Berners can lead this team. But no, this team's trying to win right now. They just beat the Golden Knights in Vegas. They're right behind them in the Pacific

division. This team is playing winning hockey. They're not trying to develop right now. They're trying to win. All right, let's shift gears a bit here. I know trade deadline day is still a while away, but I think Patrick Kane, his name just keeps getting brought up. And if he's still a Black out come March, he will be number one on that list. And for the longest time, all I kept hearing was Rangers, Rangers, Rangers, Rangers. He's still linked to possibly. going on the Rangers. But my question to you guys is, don't they need to worry about making the playoffs before they start worrying about Patrick Kane? Because they're playing some awful hockey right now. Fans and media are already calling for the head of Gerard Gallant. He's sitting

on a hot seat right now, guys. Their effort looks terrible. Barry Trots is sitting out there doing nothing. I'm just throwing that out there. So I think almost the Patrick Kane storyline is taking a backseat to, yeah, guys, get yourself securely in a playoff spot before we start talking about, you know, the finer points and the missing pieces for a playoff run. Before the season started, I picked them out of the playoffs just because I was trying to not pick the same eight teams from last year. And two games into the season after a big win over the wild and they were two and this Rangers blog with a bunch of followers on Twitter like screenshoted my prediction and

like I just got my Twitter just got set on fire. So I need to go find that tweet. Yeah, do that. But anyways, it's like Shane right over here just looking for a row. Right. I'm staring them down from the draft stage. But anyways, this team is doing exactly what I thought. They weren't a good team last year. They weren't one of the top 15 teams in the league. They just had a goalie who was absolutely on fire. He's been good this year, but not as great as he was last year. And they're seeing the regression that I thought they would see. This team is not good enough to look to add a Patrick Kane right now. Luckily, there's a lot of time between now and the trade deadline. They're going to have a lot more information to go off of. And they do have the talent and they've got the young talent that they can turn it around. And Schisturkin has another level. Like I said, he hasn't been bad. He's been decent. He's got another level. This team could turn it around. I covering Gerard Gallant here for a couple years in Vegas,

I think the world of him as a coach. I think he has the ability to turn it around. But right now, the way this team's playing, absolutely not adding Patrick Kane. It's also Patrick Kane's decision too, right? I mean, doesn't he have a full no-moo clause? Like, does he want to go to the Rangers? he loves Penarren more than anything else, like, and he'd be great, but he wants to, if he's going to leave Chicago, a place he's been his entire career, he wants to set all the records for the Blackhawks as Mr. Blackhawk. I think he

wants to go to a perfect situation, and is that the best situation for him? Who could be, who could be surprised contenders for him? Could be the Boston Bruins? Could it be the devils? Could it be any, you know, there'll be more than one suitor here, Patrick Kane, if this keeps out going the way it's going in Chicago.

And I think if you're, I think the majors have a lot more to worry about on their own and versus Patrick Kane. But I think it'll be interesting to see what Patrick Kane, as thoughtful as a player, as all the people have been around, what he decides to do with this decision. Much like Steve's Stapkos did, like in 2016, decided who we're going to go.

It was going to go to free agency. If we learned anything in the offseason, guys, let's stop trying to say, oh, he's going there. You know, Johnny Gujarro really made us open our eyes. Oh, no, we haven't got this thing figured out. Speaking of possible change of scenery, I mean, I'm wondering if that is the best case scenario right now for Brock Besser. I mean, we've seen this season really just kind of give him a kick in the gut.

His minutes have dropped. His pee-pee time has dropped. He had some tough times. I know Rousseau wrote about it as well. Do we see Brock Besser moved in the near future? I would think so. I mean, it's hard to move the contract in terms of like $6 million, I think another year or two. But I think a fresh start could be good for him. And I think people often forget what these players, these superstar athletes that they're human too. And they go through a lot of things that everybody else goes through. And it's hard to put a timeline on grief and going through that. I don't want to speak for Brock of what he's going through in that situation.

But I can just see there's a lot of layers to this situation than a normal hockey player going through a slump or getting healthy scratch, especially almost getting scratched on hockey fights cancer night. So overall, I think people in Minnesota are heading me up on Twitter all the time. Like bring him to the wild. Everybody wants to love to see him back in Minnesota. but I think it's a very later situation that I'm sure they'll take proper care of and hope for him as a player and a person that he gets a chance to kind of bounce back and show what he's capable of doing, which is really an elite, elite forward.

Yeah, my gut tells me he shouldn't be traded right now because whether it's hockey players, whether it's stocks, whatever it is, you don't want to sell at the lowest point. And to me, Brock Besser is at his lowest value right now. If you're the Canucks, like our general manager, sitting here ready to offer you what Brock Bessor's actually worth at the moment? Like, probably not. They're all going to want to discount because he's not playing well for all the reasons you guys have mentioned. Like, these guys are humans. They're not going to be at their peak performance at all times. And he's clearly not right now. But at the same time,

if you're the Canucks, you can't try to sell him at full price. Are the GMs are going to say, absolutely not. Look, you almost scratched him the other night. We want him for the value he's at right now, I think you'd be foolish to move a player as talented as bester at his lowest value. Having said that, if you're going to scratch him and you think you can get some value out of him, I could see that. To me, it's poor asset management. We just mentioned these guys are players, but as a general manager, you have to see them as assets. And it's poor asset management to trade a player as talented as bester when he's at the low point.

He's in a valley right now. You've got to get better value than that for him. him. I'm not saying give him away, Jesse. I'm just saying, I'm saying, I'm saying hopeful for the player that he gets a chance to go somewhere else and get it. But like, I think you're right. Like you can't give a, especially how much they're struggling right now as a team. They can't just give a guy like that away. Exactly. You said it earlier. They're in the business and winning hockey games. And obviously you want to be sympathetic to what he's gone through with his father, but they're not going to give him away for nothing, like you said, because a change might be a good,

good for him. Guys, two more topics left. And they're both kind of the same thing. They're both dealing with a coach being really, really honest. So I'm going to make up a game right on the spot. Love it or hate it. I want to know if you love or hate what the coach said about a specific situation. We're going to start with Craig Barube and what he said about Jordan Binnington, who could be a fantastic goalie, as we know, but we've also seen him, let's say, perform some antics in the past.

And we saw it again against the penguins, tried clipping Jason Zucker. He gets pulled, gets a 10-minute misconduct for chirping. the Penn's bench and Brubay was asked after the game about it and he said, quote, it's got to stop. It doesn't help anything. Just play a goal. Stop the puck. Love it or hate it.

We're going to start with you, Joe. I love it. I mean, I think what Big Ten is doing is taking away from how talented a goalie he really is and what he can do. He's a cup winning kind of goalie. And I think overall, I don't know what the antics or theatrics or I know he's a guy who likes to mix it up and on and off. the ice, but the blues need to win. The blues are in a pressure cooker right now,

and they need their number one goalie to act hard to act like it. So I like what a coach doesn't just protect his player all the time and says, hey, we're all good adults. Just do this and be the number one goalie and that's what we need right now. Jesse? Yep, I love it. Jordan Bennington, what he's doing is a complete joke and it's not helping him. Think back to all of the Jordan Bennington antics, as you called them, over the last couple years. How does every one of those stories end. It ends with him skating off the ice, going down the tunnel and going to the dressing room with his team getting six goals against him on the board. He doesn't handle getting scored on well. And the way he's acting, like Jason Zucker, I've dealt with him a million times just because

he's from Vegas. He's like, I've interviewed him for all those stories. He's like the nicest human being on the planet. How could anyone be upset with Jason? And like, you saw Zucker's reaction on the bench as Bennington's chair. He's just got his hands up. Like, what is your problem? Like, you're You punched me. Like he punched Zucker as he was going behind the net. And then he's all upset at Zucker because Zucker scored on him on the next play. Bennington's antics are hurting him. They're hurting the team.

It'd be one thing if he was getting all fired up and trying to fight guys. And then he was a brick wall and they couldn't score on him. And him getting fired up is how he got the best out of himself. But that's not the case at all. Every one of these incidents ends with him getting pulled because he's terrible and he's giving up goals. It's the opposite. We all know that guy, whether it's in the NHL or right down to our men's leagues where you're sitting on the bench. And every time they do that, you roll your eyes.

And it's nice that there's someone who's able to call him out. Just stop the puck. So I'm going to make a clean sweep. I would love it. The other one in a shocking turn of events, guys, John Tororella making news with a quote, talking about Carter Hart. He said, quote, it's hard to be a goaltender with us. We just have not been able to give him run support. In other words, he's doing his job, but the rest of the team isn't.

We're allowing way too many shots and we're not scoring enough to help him out. Love it or hate it. Jesse, we start with you on this one. Love it. Every Philly game I've watched this year, your heart has been outstanding. He's standing on his head back there and doesn't have a lot of support. I think it's good for, I think Torrella knows that this team needs him to play at that level if they're going to turn things around. And this is a good way to build that confidence in him while also telling the rest of the team, like, you got to get it together because he can't do this for 80. two games.

I love it too. It's a good way to defend your goalie while also not calling out any individual player on your team. He wasn't calling a certain defenseman. He's done that before. Trust me, in his past, he has done that before. But this is a way to say collectively as a group, you know, we're a higher team to play goal for it because all the chances and they got to be Ted Bell saved.

So I guess a good way to build up your goaltender without tearing your whole team down or trying one individual player down by calling that person out. I love it. I will say that for me, the Tortorella power of his quote has lost its. power for me. So I think that's the only thing. If this is another coach, I absolutely love it. But every time Torrella makes news with a quote, I'm like, yeah, but

I feel like he's always just playing this game. But at least Carter Hart probably loved it a lot. We love Peter Baugh. He's going to come on after the break and talk a little bit about the Colorado Avalanche and his new book. I don't go anywhere. Well, guys, the defending champs, they've lost four

of their last six. Taking a look at the standings. They're clinging to that second wild card spot in the Western conference. And when anything is going on with the abs, you know who we're going to call our buddy Peter Bah, who not only covers the team, but now has a new book out called Force of Nature, Joe Sackick,

a star-studded team and how the Colorado Avalanche built a Stanley Cup winner. How are I, Peter? I am, wow. How are you guys? Good to have you back. We're doing well. Let's start.

And this is something that Jesse, I know you have a lot of experience with coming last year. This team has been struck. but this team also has been pretty beat up. Nathan McKinnon now out four weeks with an upper body injury. Five of their top six forwards are hurt. So I'll ask you the same question I used to ask Jesse every day last week. Is there a chance you're going to be put on the shelf just by covering this team?

It's possible. You never know. But yeah, it's pretty nuts. I think they're up to like 11 or 12 injuries right now. Like you said, five or six top forwards. I think people have started to ask me like if it's time. to panic. And I would say not, not yet. I think they just kind of have to stay afloat for the next few weeks and then they'll start getting guys back. I think actually some of these guys sooner

will be coming back. And I think that they'll be fine once they have a few of their guys healthy and then maybe get on a bit of a run when they really get healthy later in the season. Are Pete, are they playing a bunch of guys or a couple guys like way over their normal career minutes because in Vegas, I felt like that was what really did them in was when other guys were out, they were leaning on guys like Petrangelo and just really, really heavy minutes. And to me, that kind of snowballed to where it wasn't just that first wave of injuries. It just now the guys that you've been leaning on too heavily are banged up and they don't have the juice. And it just seemed for Vegas like it was never ending. I'm wondering in Colorado,

do you think they're using the depth well or are they leaning on the top guys really heavy right now, while the others are out. Yeah, I mean, this is a group that has never really been afraid to, like, lean on some of their top guys heavily. I mean, I remember last year there was a point where, like, Bednar was frustrated because he was like, I feel like I can only use three lines right now and didn't really feel like he could play the bottom players enough.

So it's not, that's not completely new. But, yeah, they're relying on, I mean, Kelma McCar is well over 26 minutes a game. And, like, McKinnon was playing a ton of minutes a game. Rantan's playing a bunch. And then you have some of those secondary pieces that are also playing a lot. So ice time is way up for a lot of these guys. I think now maybe with the amount of injuries. Like tonight, for example, they're set to play the Bruins.

And the Bruins could win by a fair margin. And then that might give them a chance to rest some guys a little bit not play Kel McCart 29 minutes or whatever they would need them to play otherwise. Hey, Peter, when I cover Tampa, a lot of the questions after they won the cup was, you know, if there's an injury came up like, oh, was it wearing tears, is it all the accumulation of minutes or kind of thing that? The injuries that the abs have had, has it mostly been kind of freak stuff, or has it been things that could have been attributed to like, a groin or like a muscle thing where it could have been accumulation thing, guys playing through some stuff and then kind

of fighting through it. I think it's probably mostly the, just like hockey is a physical sport and things happen, with the exception of Landiskeg. I mean, Landisog got knee surgery last season to clean some stuff up in his knee. And kind of, I think, I don't know if Rushback is the right term, but maybe could have done with some more time off than he took heading into the playoffs. And was excellent in the playoffs, but it was bothering him throughout. The summer, kind of that pain was still there, still lingering. So he gets knee surgery at the start of this season after a few consultations. And all of a sudden, he's done or done until like, I guess probably February, somewhere in that range.

So it's kind of like that's an injury to your captain, one of your most significant players, where the cup played a pretty like, you can draw a straight line from what led to what. So I think that to an extent some of it is cup-related stuff and then some of it's just bad. luck. I mean, McAvoy and kind of pulled Lackininan down weird the other night and Lackinin's out for a little bit. I don't know. He was day to day, so he could be back against the Bruins, but it's a lot of weird stuff that's happened and then some stuff that has lingered. Pete, back to the Nathan McKinnon injury for a minute, four weeks, as I mentioned with an upper body injury. And when I saw the news, I kind of thought to myself, feel like we've heard this tale before.

And I went back and looked at his injury history. 2015, he missed 18 games with a foot injury. 2016, 10 games with a knee injury. 2018, eight games with an upper body injury. Then eight games in 2021 with a lower body injury. Four games with a concussion in 2022. And seven other times where he missed one to three games. I'm not trying to shit on the guy because I think he's one of the best players on planet Earth.

I even picked him to win the art trophy this year. But is he officially in that injury prone list that so many people try to avoid being on, when you think Nathan McKinnon, when he's done, is there going to be a situation where you think, yeah, had he been healthier, maybe there could have been something different? So he's actually, I was answering this in a mailbag the other day, and I am still pretty hesitant to put that label on him. I mean, this is a guy who's never missed more than, I think 16 games is the most he's missed in a season. So while there have been stretches where he'll get an injury and miss some time, that's one thing. But also, when the games are most important,

he has never missed a game. He has never missed a playoff game. And I think that I think that's clearly what matters the most to him in between not missing a playoff game and never missing having a season where he's missed more than 20 games. I think it's a little early.

When you think of those injury prone guys, it's like guys who miss years, or like season ending injury, season ending injury. So yes, there's been stuff that's come up where he's missed a few weeks here and there. But he's been there when it's counted most. and he's never missed more than 20 games in this season.

So I think that's probably a little premature. That injury seems so innocent, too, didn't it? If it's where it's exactly, we're looking. It looks as though he just kind of got rubbed along the boards just a little bit, and suddenly he's out a month. I'm not sure that's where it happened. I don't think they knew where it happened and they were trying to pinpoint it. And that could be, but I'm not 100% sure that's where it happened.

We've talked to a lot about the guys that are out, but this team is still in, I mean, they're not where they want to be right now, but they are still in playoff position despite missing all these superstars. Who's stood out to you? Is there anyone, I mean, obviously McCar is kind of carrying the water right now, but aside from him, is there anyone who's any of the depth guys that have really stepped up in a bigger role and is really kind of helping this team stay afloat while the guys are out? Yeah, it's not a huge scoring line, but they've been rolling with this line of Cogliano,

Comfer, O'Connor. And that line's been really productive at just like keeping the puck in the office. offensive zone, like four checking, kind of eating minutes. Those guys are all penalty kill contributors. So that line has definitely been a positive. It's only been one game so far, but they brought up this guy, Charles Heudan, who used to be on Montreal, and he looked really good in his first game. It's kind of one of those things where he maybe is kind of one of the more skilled guys

in the HL, but that's not necessarily what the abs are looking for when they're calling guys up. But now they kind of need someone with some skill who can provide some. jump. So he's going to get a bit more of an opportunity. And I'm curious to see if he continues how he looked. But yeah, it's kind of been the normal guys. And McKinnon was awesome this year before he was hurt. He was carrying a lot of the load. So Randon's been good. Kind of the guys you'd expect. And then I think that one line of Cagliano Com for O'Connor's been a pretty good bright spot for the team. Pete, I think a lot of people in the hockey world were happy for Bednar when he got his Stanley Cup considering his path to get there. And I'm

know it's, no one knows until they go through it for the first time, but it's like to win a Stanley Cup in the next year. How has he kind of handled everything from coaching perspective and where you see his biggest, you know, fingerprint on this team this year? Yeah, I mean, he's a pretty mellow guy. I think he, he, obviously all the coaches will say this, but like it was like when the season started, he was like, we've got to turn the page.

It's time to move on. And I think that it's one of those things where everyone says that, but you could kind of tell that, like, that's, he's kind of practiced. thing what he's preaching, you know, like he wasn't too hung up on the past. He was looking into this year and how to keep getting better. I think that this team, you can see he, there's a lot of buy-in, which I think when there's a team that's as injury-filled as this team is really important. Like, they're sticking to kind of the systems and the effort level is high and the results

aren't always pretty, but like for the most part, I don't think that this team is like lack and effort and anything like that. And I think that some of that comes to the culture and the culture goes back to the coach in a lot of ways. So I think he, if the abs are able to kind of stay afloat here, like I would guess they probably are going to be able to. I think Benner deserves a lot of credit. And he's been good at keeping, even in past years

when the team is like really injury kind of riddled. He's done a good job keeping them afloat. And I, so that's one of the reasons I haven't kind of reached the point where I'm like, oh, they need to really start worrying. Pete, Jesse mentioned McCar. We're on like a 50-show streak of saying how awesome he is, and we might as well make a 51 with you here. I read your piece about, you know, the series that the athletics doing on,

you know, the different players on how they've made an impact on sports. I love watching this guy play, but I don't get to follow him on a regular basis. I mean, how much fun is it? I probably asked you this before, but I want to hear it again. Just you get to be in. and around this guy every day. He's just so ultra talented. I couldn't even imagine what practice would be like

just watching him in the corner with the puck, just fooling around. Yeah, it's fun. I think that one of the most fun things in practice is watching the power play, especially, well, when it's healthy, but you have McCarr, McKinnon, Ranton, and this guy. Like, these guys just whip the puck around so easily. And like,

you can, when you're closer, you kind of see how fast they're moving, and it's, it's really, it's impressive. It's unbelievable. And, and yeah, McCar has, kind of, I think, I don't know if it's fair to say he's taking the throne as the best defenseman in the league from Hadman, but I think it's either at that point or getting there pretty quickly. He actually, I think, hasn't quite been at his best yet this year. I think, like, maybe some of the minutes are adding up a little bit. There have been stretches, and he's been

an elite elite defenseman, but it hasn't been quite as last year where he was, it felt like he never did anything wrong. So, so he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, been unbelievable, even if he still maybe has another level to reach this year at some point. And then his playoff run was obviously pretty historic and I think led the team in points and had an unbelievable postseason and got the consmites, which I thought was the right choice. It's funny. He made history, too. When you look at the players who have ever won a Norris and a con smite, Bob Yor and Nicholas Listram, arguably the two greatest defensemen who ever lived and now Kala Makar is on that list.

And, you know, the one thing you keep forgetting, and we know this because we cover the game, but he's 24 years old. He's literally a child. Yeah. Wow. I was 24, not too long ago. He's not quite.

You're a child, too. Yeah, but he, no, he's, it's pretty unbelievable. And he's, he's, he's fun to cover. Like, he's, he's kind of, he's one of the guys who I feel like the open locker room, like, actually talking. know, the guy, he's so much better in that setting than just like at a like press conference podium or whatever. And he was always respectful and fine there. But he's, I find you can kind of get a lot more insights from him. And he's pretty, um, forthcoming about how he's feeling and stuff like that.

And so that's been, that's been fun. Pete, I'd like to ask you about the book a little bit. Um, lots of writing for you over the last summer. I'm, I'm curious like I've, we've both do the same thing every day where beat writers were covering teams. I've never written a book. I'm curious, what's the biggest difference in writing a book? What was the biggest challenge in going from writing stories every day, a couple big stories a week during that playoff run to writing something as big as a book, taking on that big of a challenge? Yeah, I think there were a lot of big differences, but there were also a lot of like big similarities. Like if I'm writing a big feature story, I have to outline it pretty well. And I found that with with this, I had to outline

the book pretty well, you know, like I had the have a good sense of where I wanted different things to, to happen. And then beyond that, I think that the biggest thing was just kind of realizing, like, you have so much more space for your voice and like your, I guess, expertise or whatever and just kind of like needing to really like kind of capitalize that on that. And like, it took me a while to get in a rhythm, but like kind of trusting your voice and your, I guess ability to say what happened without like like I had a professor who I from college who I kind of turned to a lot who is who's very helpful. His name was Michael Nicely. And he, he, one of the things he said was like, you need to be the expert on this and like you need to talk with authority, which I think is true for articles.

But I think with a book, it's even more so. Like, I guess like it's less like there obviously there's a lot of reporting that goes into it. most of the stuff I write is influenced by reporting. But it was also I kind of had to take my own voice and say what happened authoritatively in a different way that I found like took me a while to get in the rhythm, but I found pretty fun once I did. Yeah, Pete could ask on the book, of course. And I was curious in more of a book a nerd way of like the process of it.

Time Management. I know after the Lightning won their second cup, I was approached by doing a book. And I was like just completely gassed. I was like, give me the hell away from how. Rocky, Lightning, and went to the Europe for two weeks with my wife and toured to Mount Blanc to hike all the Alps and stuff like that. I was like, no way I want to write something like that in the next three months. You know, like, what was your mental process like that?

Like, was you writing a couple hours a day in the summertime? Like, how do you kind of revitalized and how do you have the energy to kind of do that? We'll also get in kind of recharge, I guess, for the season. Yeah, well, I definitely maybe could have recharged a little more. That's maybe one thing this coming off season. I have to remember. But I think that one of the, I tried to like do some things to like shake it up a little bit. Like I at one point went to like just went out into the mountains and like got like a lodge room or something for a few days and just rode a bunch there and hiked and kind of tried to take some time for myself, but also some time to like work in a more fun environment.

And then yeah, it was kind of a lot of like trying to make sure I was doing a good bit every day. and kind of getting good feedback from people I trusted to read stuff. And that, like, honestly helped a ton. Like, I don't think that this would have been the product I wanted if I hadn't had that. And I have some, like, really good friends who are really good at reading things. And I'm really grateful for all of that. So it was definitely a whirlwind. But, yeah, I think those are the big things.

Like, I had to outline it well, kind of do a bit every day. and tried to shake up the location sometimes. So it wasn't just writing at home all the time. How can you kind of differentiate the book from the one that obviously ran with all the athletic stories you wrote? Because obviously you covered this team really well. A lot of really awesome stories. I was wondering, how do you get something that's new and make a different book than the one, I guess, the athletic ran? Yeah, because that one was kind of more just like a volume of throughout the year.

It was almost like a yearbook. This one I kind of viewed as like I wanted to get a little more into like how the team was built. of some of the inside stories that maybe after things were set and done, people would be more willing to share, which was the case. Like it was, I kind of, I tried to talk to as many players on the team as I could over the summer, like just do an interview with them and kind of get some of those stories of like, whether it was like the dinner they had the night before game six where Andrew Cagliano gave this really big speech or Nico Stern talking about kind of the process of getting traded

and all of that stuff. And just kind of different touch points throughout the season that maybe players in the moment aren't going to, you know how hockey players are. Like sometimes if it's a big win, they'll be like, oh, yeah, it's a big win, but we got to keep going along or whatever.

And whereas in, if they're reflecting back after the course of the season, they might say, like, this win meant something and we felt something changed then or something like that. And I think that kind of getting, doing that additional reporting really helped make it different than the reporting I'd already done. And then I also could rely on the past reporting of kind of the stories I'd done in the past to talk about kind of the rise of a lot of these different players.

I've said this a million times. If I could just interview retired players for the rest of my career, I think I would. Because there's so much more open to exactly what you said. You know, they don't have to worry about pissing people off and getting benched or getting traded or anything else. I always find interviewing former players so much fun. And I'm really looking forward to read the book, Force of Nature, Joe Sackick, a star-studded team, and how the Colorado Avalanche built a Stanley Cup winner. It's available for Christmas, right? Where can people get it? Yeah, it's out. It's on the Amazon website, both Canada and the U.S., Barnes & Noble chapters in

Canada, like all the main places you can get books online. It should be available. Awesome. And Peter did a misery-type writing process. I can't believe. you went to a cabin and wrote in a cabin after see that. If you've ever seen the movie Misery, you know what I'm talking about. Peter, thanks for doing this. We'll talk to you soon. Yeah, thank you for having me. Thanks, Pete.

Peter Bal, who covers the Aves and, of course, wrote that book about that amazing team. And guys, cards on the table. I was in high school, a diehard Red Wings fan. So I hated the avalanche with every fiber of my being. So when I read this book, I could just see Steam. Come out of my ears. Rapid Fire coming up. After the break. All right, boys, my favorite time of the show and yours, rapid fire. We're going to start with the capitals. I know we've talked a lot about teams getting injured a lot and they are definitely one of them. They've battled some injuries to some key players. 11 pending free agents as well. If this team doesn't start winning, are they officially sellers come March. Jesse, we'll start with.

Yeah, I think they definitely are. I mean, you mentioned all of the pending free agents and these aren't like nobody's. Like they top players on this team have their contracts up. They're aging. Right now it's just the Ovechkin show. I feel like he's going to keep scoring goals, but all the rest of these players, the ones that are healthy, are really struggling right now. I think at this point, I think it's more likely that they're sellers than not. I agree with you, Jesse. And I think it's a tough thing when you have a team built around a core like that. That's what a championship together. Just like in Pittsburgh, too, when to know, when to say no, when to say yes, when to, when to, when to say yes, when to, start, you know, making some deals.

So we get your team better, even if it's like a retool on the fly versus a rebuild. But yeah, they're making some tough decisions this summer with all the big contracts like you mentioned. So I think if you know as a GM you realistically can't put a Stanley Cup this year and in that window, make your window better next year to do that. I think what really hit me was when you look at what their record has to be from here out in order to make the playoffs, they've got to be a top 10 team in the league after having a 481 points percentage. Like, when you look at it that way, It seems very unrealistic that this team is good.

Very big mountain. They need to clock. Rapid Fire number two, Cal Peterson. Kings placed him on waivers. He cleared. Remember, this is the first year of a $15 million contract. And he has just struggled this year. So they loaned him to the Ontario reign of the H.L.

So my question is, what now? Joe, we'll start with you. Find a great goaltending coach down there and help him rebuild, rebuild some of that confidence that he has. Like, obviously they're in a tough spot because he's the hair apparent or supposed to air parent to Jonathan Quick, right? He's supposed to be that guy. And not all number one goalies are developed the same.

They're all different kind of features. So I think maybe this was a wake-up call, not only to Peterson, I think for the whole entire King's team, about how do we let this thing happen? So I think maybe being out of the spotlight there in Ontario and rebuilding some of his game there and get a chance because they can't give up on him. They have no choice.

I mean, he's on the hook for three more, a couple more years here. And they absolutely need a guy like this. us to be a number one caliber goalie. And Quicks didn't retire at some point. You can't play forever. Yeah. It's so strange to see the Kings with bad goaltending because I feel like this team has just

been a goalie factory for a long time. Like Jonathan Quicks obviously been the guy for a long time. But how many backup goalies behind Quick that they've drafted and developed have gone on to other teams to be awesome? Like it feels like a third of the league has former. King's goalies. Like this team from a, from a drafting perspective in terms of identifying talent and their ability to develop them has been good for so long that I'm not ready to say like Jack Campbell's

never, I mean, sorry, Jack Campbell, that's another guy that they produced. Cal Peterson isn't going to be able to turn this around. So I agree with Joe. Send him down there. Take some of the pressure off of him. Let them develop him because to me, this is an organization that has done such a good job developing goalies. I have faith that if there's a team out there that can turn his game around and get him back

to playing like a number one goalie that they need, it's the Kings. And final rapid fire topic, Jacob Forecheck announced Monday he's going to be out long term with concussion symptoms. He mentioned he's had seven, seven documented concussions over his NHL career. I hate when people like us tell someone to retire. But when I hear seven concussions, you just kind of like, oh, man, like think about second half of your life. It was a tough thing to watch,

but he keeps saying he wants to come back. Your thoughts on this forecheck news. Jesse? Yeah. I mean, you pretty much nailed it. It just, while part of me says think about the second half of your life and like this, when you've done nothing but try to be an NHL player and be an NHL player for your entire life and you don't know anything else,

it's like, no, this is what I want to do. and I don't want to do anything else. So it's like, I understand this both sides. I understand why we would be sitting here cringing at seven concussions. Oh my gosh, is this guy going to be able to live a normal life after hockey? But I see his side too. Like, I understand why, especially if you're him and you go through the concussion protocol and you get through it and you say, look, I'm healthy. Like, I can play hockey right now.

I want to play hockey. It's a really, really tough situation that I think we've been learning a lot more about brain health over the last five years. years, far more than we ever knew. I think we're going to continue down that path. And it's going to be something that this is such a tough situation for players to deal with. But I think we're going to need doctors to tell them, doctors to help them make better decisions. I agree, Jesse. I mean, I think this is a tough decision for a player to walk away or to stop playing a game. He's loved ever since he was three years old. But I also look at it away, like you mentioned, all the research we've seen with the studies over brains over time. And this is not turning a meniscus and saying a doctor saying,

no, you can't hurt it anymore if you go out and play tomorrow against the king, but this is your brain. You don't know long-term injuries until, unfortunately, it's too late, and they examine it afterwards. So I know players are so tough, and hockey players are toughest that they come, and I'm sure he wants to play, and I'm sure anybody would be in his corner, but I think they will take, a doctor take that out of his hands, probably before this happens. Some, a lot of players, right? A lot of players have to be saved from themselves, and hopefully, for his sake, he plays, makes a right decision, or if he plays, he stays healthy, if not, obviously it's a very delicate,

the situation to kind of follow. The more we learned about brain injuries, the more news like that always scares me. Another show in the books, guys, real quick. What do we work it on this week? Joe, we'll start with you. You're on the wild trip here. So following them around. I did a fun story yesterday on their amazing race team-building activities out there in the snow

and Banff area, so that was fun. Just work on big picture of stories on a wall staff. They're going to the future. A deep dive on him. He'll be the guy who eventually replace Mark Audrey Flurry in Minnesota. and a few other kind of NHL-related features behind-the-scenes stuff on what goes on in an NHL travel experience. So it'll be kind of fun. I've got a cool story coming up on, I've just been going around the room and asking them.

This is a story that I'm sure people have seen from other teams, but it has been written on the Golden Knights for a while. But how they all got their numbers. And it's just fascinating to me how, like, to be honest, a lot of the guys are, well, I walked into the room and that was the jersey hanging in the stall. that's my number. To spice the story up a little bit more, I started asking them, like, to me, it's fascinating how, what numbers say about a player and how you see a guy like Jonathan Marshall, so with a number 81, a real high number that you don't see a lot in the league. And it's like, well, that guy had to fight his ass off to get into the league.

And you can tell that by his number. And then sitting right next to him is Jack Eichel with a number nine. And it's like, oh, he's had the same number since he was five. And when he got into the league, he automatically got the number he wanted. So I don't know. To me, it's a story about how each guy got his number, but more so it's a story about how numbers can tell you something about players in the NHL. It's been a fun one to report. It's a fascinating stuff.

We used to an idea one in Minnesota. People loved it. It's just like crazy how a guy can get number 89 versus a guy who's born the same number forever because no one ever take the number from him, right? He just comes to their team and team. There's no bartering like there are the leagues, right? No one pays in the NHL for the number. If they come to a team says, hey, I'm a number 23.

I'll give you 10 grand for it. They don't do that as much. So I asked Ben Hutton about that. And he goes, yeah, I wanted number 10, but Nick Waugh had it. And I offered him a Rolex and he wouldn't take it. And I was like, really? He wouldn't. And he goes, yeah, go ask Nick about it right now.

So I go walk and I walk across the room and I go ask Waa. And I'm like, I heard you got offered a Rolex for number 10 and you wouldn't give it up. And he goes, that was Ben that told you that, right? Yeah, he's lying. He's too cheap for that. So they were just messing with me. Great. Great, though.

Look forward to reading all that. Thanks, boys, for another great show. Before we go, I do want to remind everyone who's listening to go and follow us on your favorite podcast platform. And if you'll leave a rating and review, it really helps us out a lot. And now that you're done listening to us, guys, listen to some more. Go back and check out John Hamm. He was on with Sean Jatilly and Jeremy Rutherford on the Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. And if you want more, great hockey talk.

It's pretty simple. Subscribe. Right now you get an annual subscription to The Athletic for just two bucks a month. for a year when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. The Athletic Hockey Show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown. And the roundtable will be back next week with myself, Russo and Granger, and our special guest, John Shin. Thanks for listening.

Talk to you next week.