The Athletic Hockey Show - Conn Smythe Trophy final 4 front runners

Episode Date: May 23, 2024

Gentille and Bultman present their top choices from the final four teams for the Stanley Cup playoffs MVP, the look back on the Panthers game one shutout win over the Rangers, before looking ahead to Thursday's game one of the West final between Edmonton and Dallas. Plus they discuss Sheldon Keefe joining the New Jersey Devils, Rick Tocchet winning the Jack Adams and provide an update on the PWHL Final between Boston and Minnesota with the series tied at one.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Good evening. This is the Thursday show. The athletic hockey show. No Haley this week. She is in Minnesota right now for the PWHL final. We'll probably talk about that a little bit, a little bit in segment three. But yeah, Haley's in, I almost said St. Pete.

That's in Florida, buddy. Max. St. Paul, Minnesota. That's where Haley is. St. Paul. One of the best St. in my opinion. I think we're going to power rank those to start the show. Yeah, that's actually what, that's actually what our, what our discussion is today. I'm going to fall back on my 12 years of Catholic schooling to do an exhaustive power ranking of all the saints. Number one, St. Januarius, and here's why. St. Elmo. This is the patron saint of cocktail sauce. Very funny. You know they sell that in stores? This is like the famous cocktail sauce that's, uh, that's at the, the,

what's it called the Steakhouse in Indianapolis. You can buy that at places. The only customers I can think of that are buying that regularly are NFL reporters. I was about to say, these are people who are just trying to bridge the gap between the combines. Whatever. Very spicy. All right, buddy. We have playoff stuff to talk about.

This is, you know, I remember recording on Thursday morning. We're one game into Rangers. Panthers had that rolling last night. I know both of us watched it. Panthers win 3-0, go up 1-0 in the series. Did you have any immediate takeaways from that? Like, what was, whether it's the result

or the first couple periods or whatever? What are we thinking after one game of that? Two big ones. The first is the Florida Panthers achieved what I like to call the Florida Panther Grand Slam. which is that they did the improbable, and they outshot, out hit, and out blocked the Rangers. Usually when we point to hits and blocks,

people like to claw back with, yeah, that means you didn't have the puck, but the Panthers did manage all three of those. It's not technically a Grand Slam, because there's only three, but my creative capabilities are limited, as we know. It's the Panthers trip will play. That's what we're on it.

There we go. Thank you, Sean. A more seasoned sports mind. than I. Still a baseball analogy, too. The other thing was, I thought that it was really good that they stayed out of the box. And we've talked about the Rangers' power play and how huge that is. They only give them two chances on the power play.

And I think when you add up everything we just said, this is kind of the recipe for the Panthers here, right? Like, this is, I think we as a staff favored the Panthers in our predictions. But obviously, the Rangers are a really good team. I don't think anybody's going to be surprised if they win this series. But for the Panthers to do it, this is something like what it's. it's going to look like, right? They're going to impose their will physically. They're going to muck it up and they're not, they're going to do it without taking penalties and without putting a really dangerous power play out there. That game, especially the first two periods,

is writ large. It's the reason that I've been picking, that I picked against the Rangers in the Carolina series and why I picked against them in this series. The first two period, those are, that's like the, that should be the sum of all fears for Rangers fans, right? Because the Panthers are physical, they're disciplined. Like you said, dude, they're staying out of the box. The shot clock by the end of it ended up being a little bit more even. I think it's a little bit deceptive. Through the first two periods, man, the Panthers had the puck the whole time, right?

And you make the Rangers play at five on five. I know that fan base is so tired of hearing about it, but it's true. That's the best way to beat them. And it worked, right? Like you limit their chances. You limit the time that they have the puck on the stick. You limit the power play opportunities. And, you know, you hope that a superstar like Matthew Kachuk comes up.

You hope that you get a lucky balance like they did on that second goal there. And then if you're Florida, you're cooking with gas. But yeah, I think that should have. It was vindicating for me, honestly, personally. And that's what this is all about. This is just like this, this is what this show has become is just my, my cudgel for, you know, all slights real and imagined. I felt some kind of sense of indication there because we were talking about it yesterday, me and Sean and Frankie. Like, I don't quite know what my problem is with the Rangers.

I don't, I don't know why. Like, I'm still, I'm still not all in on them because God knows they're great at plenty of stuff. But I think the way that first game unfolded was was a pretty good example of it. Yeah, and I think when we've looked at the. Rangers. We've talked about them at times this year as similar. We have the stars who everyone on this show, I think, has picked for the Stanley Cup. They are very deep. They are loaded on the blue line. They have a very good goalie. If there's a question, I think it's probably how top end is the center group. But in these playoffs, it's been really, really good. Troche and Zabanajad have been awesome. And so they are a very good team. But I do kind of agree there is that little sense of like, yeah, but to them. And I don't know where it comes from. But I do agree that we kind of saw it in game one. So we'll see where this goes. I think this is a long series no matter what.

I agree. I agree. I agree. Either way, we're going to see the Rangers bite back. But I do think in the end, this is the kind of game that shows why the majority of us pick the Panthers. And it's because they are so multidimensional. It's not a coincidence that their three goal scores end up being Kachuk for Hagee and Bennett. These are their playoff stalwart.

These are the kind of guys who always seem to find a way to get it done. So we'll see where it goes. And it's the Panthers being a plused up version of the hurricanes in a lot of ways, right? Where they have that finishing talent. They have the ability to turn the puck possession and the quality chances into actual goals. So I think that's another takeaway there too, right? Is that, you know, God bless the Carolina Hurricanes. They do so much stuff the right way.

The Rangers are no longer dealing with the Carolina Hurricanes. Like this is something else. And I think, and I think we saw that. in a very real, very meaningful way last night. It's kind of killer instinct in both ways that you can use the term, right? It's the physical, literally killer instinct. But it is also that the finishing you're not, you know, I don't want to say that Caroline Harcad is like afraid of the moment or something.

But whatever that is that allows you to just take a play that's there and execute it, whether it's slow your heartbeat down, whatever it is. I'm sure there's 50 million sports cliches we could use here. But that is something the Florida Panthers have demonstrated for seven, playoff series in a row now in the last 14 months. So that's them. When you have players that are as good as Matthew Kachuk and Carter Verhage in particular, during the regular,

those guys are good on a Tuesday in January, right? Their ability to level up consistently during playoff games and big moments is wild. And it's one of those things where, you know, it's a you know it when you see it kind of thing. Like these dudes have juice in a way that, in a way that a lot of teams. don't. And look, man, we're going to say this. I'm gassing them up here. Game two is tomorrow. And we know that the Rangers are going to win 4-1 and have three power play goals. And like,

we can just throw it all out the window. But I, but you know, we can only go based on what we saw last also. And that was that was, that was, man, like you said, between the hits and the blocks and the dominance of the shock clock and the finishing ability, that is like prime Florida Panthers stuff. And Bobrovsky with the shutout too. Totally. Yeah. Right. Yep. That's it. That's it too. He hasn't been 20, 23 level playoff Bob so far.

It looked like he got a little bit closer to it last night too. So you have him shutting the door at the important times, right? It was really good. We did a good job blocking shots. And when he was, we needed him, he was huge, especially with a couple of the breakways. So, yeah, he gives us a lot of confidence back there. My personal, by the way, Sean, you mentioned your vindication for Slytes Real and imagined. We don't vote on the Vezina and the PHWA, but I did have Bogovsky on my All-Star ballot. And he was third on my All-Star ballot, right?

I didn't vote first or anything. That's spicy. I'm like, you picked the right time to admit that. I think if you had said that two weeks ago, you'd have gotten made fun of. Not now. Well, I almost did bring it up on the show a couple weeks ago because when the finalist got announced, Bobrovsky being in there was not a popular choice. We'll just say that. And there are, I think, are valid alternatives for sure. I don't think this was a slam dunk. Whenever it's the last spot

on your ballot of something, this is not like a guy that's undeniable. But I do think it's interesting how willing people were to kind of hand-wave it away. I know Stolars had a better save percentage than him this year. And I know Greg Woshenki from ESPN even kind of, you know, tongue-in-cheek, obviously, but said, like, he wasn't even the best goal on his own team. I do think the Brovsky is getting victimized by playing a really good team in that I don't know how, I don't know how tongue-in-cheek that was from Greg. Oh, well, I mean, the big debate around him, Bobrovsky was the expected goals thing.

And the only thing, the, actually sorry, the goals saved above expected, which is a good stat. We don't have very many good stats for goalies. It's one of the few that is good. But it is also variable. few publicly available ones that's good. Like there's, there's some private sector stuff for goaltenders.

There's a lot more, a lot more useful than anything we can work with, you know, just on the open internet. But yeah, goal saved above expected is a good one. It is variable, though,

I think is the key, right? And so the number that most of us use is the evolving hockey one. Great website. I subscribe to it. I give them my money. I think it's very good. But it is notable that that,

that is not a consistent number across all the sites that measure. And if you go to like a site like MoneyPuck, which is another really good site. The gap between him and Jordan Bennington, who's a guy I think a lot of people wanted to see it and we'll just keep using Wyshinsky here because his tweets is the one that stuck in my mind about it. It's really close, actually, on MoneyPuck.

So to me, when you look at how close these guys' numbers were in the regular season, Bennington and Bobrovsky, I think to say one was like a complete snub and the other doesn't belong there was always a little out of whack. The third spot on the ballot was a tough one. But I do feel Bobowski was slam

dunk top five to six goalie in the NHL this season. And I thought he got a little bit of the short end in the public discourse in that. And I think he's showing it right now. Obviously, I agree with he hasn't been at the level he was last playoffs yet. But I still think he had a really good year. And that's also not a fair. That's also not a fair curve to grade on either. Like, okay, he's not Superman, you know, turning in the playoff goalie performance of

the decade, possibly. Like, okay. Like, if that's a measuring stick, so be it. But it's not particularly fair. Yeah. And one more thing on the goal saved above expected, because this is something that I think people should start kind of thinking about in expected goals as a whole,

is it while it is used to measure quality of chances, and that does come into play when we're talking about goals saved above expected for sure, because we always like to talk about, you know, did the goal they have a chance at it? Those cumulative stats, they add up a bunch of shots. So if your team, like, for example, the St. Louis Blues, is not as good as the Florida Panthers. and they give up a lot more shots.

It doesn't mean they're giving up way, way higher quality necessarily. The volume there, if there's a bunch of like 0.05, 0.07 expected goal plays. You expect Bennington to make that save all day. He gets eight more of them in a game. That's like half an expected goal right there, right? So that factors into the goals of above expected. This has been my Sergey Brabrovsky and expected goal soapbox. Thank you for subscribing.

I love finding things that you are willing to, like, raise your blood pressure over a little bit. It's not the easiest, but we got two of them today, actually. We're going to... Do not. Do not. And that brings us into our next point. I think our gimmick here today

without Haley is that we're going to pick Con Smyth favorites for each of the remaining four teams. We'll talk about the West in the next segment, but for now, like I said, our focus is on Florida in the Rangers. Let's go with Florida first.

I'm assuming that Bobrofs, he's not your pick, even though you love him so very much. He's your best friend. He is my best friend. He's not my pick on this one. Who do you got? I think it's Barkov, but I think don't discount Carter Hagee. And I think he's kind of becoming kind of the playoff killer of our era.

We talked earlier this year about the overtime goals. I don't think he's had one since then. and that, you know, maybe that's going to end up being, you know, if he doesn't get another one or two by the end, it probably becomes moot in this conversation. But Barcault has been really dominant, really good. He obviously, we know the tough matchup he takes. He won the Selke Trophy the other day. But I do think, you know, so I think it's him. But I think Verhegey with the goal scoring, like we do tend to see that matter with voters, is that the guy who scores the goal gets.

That mattered with Jonathan Marches-O for sure last year, even though I think you could probably say Jack Eichol was Vegas's best player. a la Bobrovsky. I think it's a for Florida, sorry, it's a two horse race between those two. Right now I give it to Parkup, but I don't think we can sleep on for Hagee. I think it's very possible that if in three weeks we're talking about the Florida Panthers

is Stanley Cup champions, we're also going to be talking about the, you know, 13 point series that Carter Ragee had in the final or something. I think that's very, very possible. I don't know if I want to straight up project that. his panthers aren't my cup pick um and also i a big factor here is barcov is a premium player he's a named dude like i know everyone jokes about the properly rated underrated you know thing with him everybody knows alexander barkov because he's been unbelievable for years and years and years

i think a big part of this i mean we always say this i feel like we talk about awards voting a lot a big part of this is narrative based, right? Like people get it in their heads, understandably early on, whether it's a regular season, a postseason, whatever, they're like,

okay, this is the guy. And I think that Barkov in that last series, against Boston, I think he almost won it already, truly. Like, I think the narrative that crystallized around him during that,

totally deserved, by the way. narratives can be correct. That's an important point to make. Not all narratives are false or whatever. This is legit. This is true. This is a guy who's eating tufts and scoring a bunch of goals.

And he did it against Boston. And I feel like the way people started talking about him in that last round, barring some kind of huge falloff combined with a Verhegey explosion over the next, you know, 11 games or whatever we end up getting. I think he's almost guaranteed to win it. I do. I think you can almost write it in pen. Yeah, and I don't think you're wrong about the narrative stuff here.

Like, I really try to check my little biases when I do feel like. I don't have a cons of might ballot. So I'm free and clear on this one. But he is the kind of player who I want to give awards to, right? Like it is a type of player that I think goes underrewarded in our game. And that's why the Selke becomes kind of an award that means a little more to me because I think that kind of player doesn't get enough love in discussion and all that. So to me, the consummice right there in that, it's the guy who battled for you through the playoffs.

And goals tend to get the love. But I think that you talked about kind of those tough minutes. I think that goes more toward winning than we often are able to give credit for. So he's the kind of guy I want to give awards to. The dude brought all of it against Boston. And I know I know I said this on our show. I said this on my show with Sean. and people, you know, reacted to it where it's like a, you know, Sasha Barkov hater or whatever.

I'm not. I'm not at all. Like I just, you just know how good that guy is, how good he's been for huge stretches of his career that he can truly put it all together in terms of, you know, defensive excellence and in terms of point production. And he hadn't done it the way that he did it against Boston. Well, guess what? Now that's on the resume. That happened. like someone like me who was like I I want to see a little bit more from him in a series I it happened so you know that narrative I think is uh is is kind of is kind of locked in all right the one thing I'll say Sean is we we just went a whole segment on the panthers con smite and didn't mention their leading score and franchise face which is Matthew Kachuk I mean Barkov's the captain but chuck is is the panthers right it scored the game winning goal last night yes yeah exactly so we shouldn't rule him out either and he

could have a gigantic conference final, a gigantic final. He could be a huge physical presence and swing the whole thing. Obviously, I think last year, if they win it, it's him. I think last year's, last year's was his. And I think people are over it. Matthew Kachuk, so over, so 20, 20, 3. We're moving on. Give me Carter, Reg.

He's out. Where are we at on the Rangers? You go first again, please. I think it's Trocheck. In our staff goal. in our, yeah. And I, this is, Sean, this is another Sean Chantilly vindication hour here because earlier this year you did center tears and you talked about, you know, did you put Trocheque as the once year? Did you put Zabanajad? That's a great question. I honestly, I honestly don't remember. I was, it was so flipped. I had, I had multiple people with teams like three or four or five or, like whatever. I talked of probably, let's say six people. And I think where I got from that, it was like, Like if it wasn't 50-50, it was, it was real close to it.

I'm going to check that right now, actually. Yeah, whatever you chose, you either chose Zabanajet and said, should this be Trochequech, which is what I think you did, or you said Trochec outright. And I think when we debated on the show, I said, like, don't kid yourself, Zabanajet is the one C here. Let's not be, you know, prisoners of the moment. And here I am ready to, you know, lock myself in that cell with you here because Trocheck has been unreal.

He played like, he's playing like 23 minutes a night in these playoffs, first of all, which is, you know, you cannot do that and not be called the one C of your team. But I also think he's just been the story of these playoffs, right? It's the goals. It's the way that he's in it, you know, that he's in every little scrum and he just seems to kind of live for it. And if they pull through against a team like Florida, you kind of feel like it's going to have to be someone like Vincent Trocheck driving the bus there. And so far he's done it. And so I'm in that boat with you.

I'm on the Vincent Trochec train. Vinny Trochec is having a perfect postseason. He might be a perfect hockey player because he's offensively skilled. He's a rat. He's good enough to play with Artembe Panarin, which is like the biggest check in the box for him being the Rangers. One C right is that he gets Panarin. He's obnoxious.

He tries to be obnoxious. and he is from western Pennsylvania. Upper St. Clair native Vinie Trocheque. I can think of nothing that would make me happier. Even after all the smack we've talked on the Rangers and I whined about it for five minutes there earlier, I can think of nothing that would make me happier than Vinya Triocheque placed in the cons month.

Let's get it done. Now, the staff poll reflected that our staff believe that should be Shasturkin. And I don't think that's like a bad call. Probably what's going to happen. I think if we're talking about the Rangers of Stanley Cup champs, the same kind of logic I used on the Florida pick. It's going to be because you Sterkin went into sicko mode for a little bit there.

But man, whatever. You can't make me choose against Vinny. I think the other thing is, do you think that the matchup in the potential matchup in the cup final would affect that at all? Because I think if it's Dallas, then there's more room for a skater to win it. there's not like a he shut down McDavid factor, right?

If the Rangers beat the Oilers in a cup final, it's going to mean that Shusdirken stopped, you know, the most potent offensive attack I can think of in the NHL in recent memory. That's a great point. There's more of a pathway for someone like Trocheck. We're going to talk about Dallas and Edmonton too in a second here

because we're going to preview game one of the Western Conference finals, and then we're going to do this little gimmick with our Kahn-Smite picks on those guys as well. So stick around. We'll be right back. Can't find the game. Streaming bill too high. Avoid the hassle with buttstream.fart. The world's leading imaginary illegal streaming service.

Try it for free. Forever. That's B-U-T-T-S-T-R-E-A-M dot FART. The whole world is watching. All right, we're back. And Max is back. In the driver's side of his Honda Civic in his mother and father's driveway, which is where he's recording this.

we need like this can't go unremarked upon like tell tell the people why you're why you are doing this from your car like with the windows up so the birds don't so the bird chirping doesn't make it through on mic you're in full on like you know it's a you're a jack you're a jack russall terrier that's like left it's like left in a car while the owner goes into the store or something my man my man is sweating Like I've seen him sweat before, except he's doing it. He's doing it in the seat of a car. Yeah, instead of it.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm in Grand Rapids for the HL playoffs right now. You need to roll down the windows. I'm going to, like, just do it. No, I'm going to see how long I can make. Your hair is wet. You can't. My hair is wet.

That is a fact. Roll down the wind. I'm not kidding. Roll down the window. This is not a joke. I don't give, who cares about the birds? You need to, people will appreciate it. We're going to preserve the audio.

Producer Jeff noting that he's correct. He said a little bird ambience, never heard anybody. We'll see how far we can get here with this. I'd like to preserve the audio integrity as much possible. Yeah, he's like smash cut to you in an ambulance going whatever for heat stroke on May 23rd. For the listeners, I took a two-minute walk outside in between segments to lower my internal body temp. And I think that can last me at least another segment. So we're going to see how far we can take this.

I'm at my parents' house in Grand Rapids where I grew up. but I could not be inside because they have someone in there working on their kitchen. I didn't want the saw sounds. So we're going to do this from the car, and we're going to see how long I can last. The boys play in hurt. Love to see it. It's the playoffs, baby. Game one is Stars Oilers is tonight.

We all pick the Stars, right? Didn't we? I think that's, I can speak for Haley on that. there's something very fun about this matchup. I think we're seeing it's Star Power versus Depth. I think everyone loves that as a storyline. It's, you know, the Oilers trying to get stuff done as the opportunities,

maybe they're not starting to run out, but you only get so many bites at the apple. And then Dallas is the favorite, at least on staff. So I'm psyched for this one, right? Yeah, this is the marquee. I think this might even be more appealing than whatever the cup final ends up being because I think I think that's spicy I would say yeah I think so I think it's the team that the majority of our staff has picked for the Stanley Cup against the two of the top five best players in the world and a high leverage moment of their trajectory right like like this is the summer where the dry saddle decision really

comes to the forefront because of his contract status and I think what happens this summer is going to be a huge talking point around the league for them. And obviously a cup final has the cup at stake. It's very hard to beat those stakes. But I do think there's a lot of meat on this bone. So whether it's there or whether it's just behind it, this is the series that I'm the most locked into. I really want to see what McDavid and Drysidal can do here.

And we've talked on previous shows about the improved supporting cast here and how important that is. that's been true in the playoffs for sure. But at the end of the day, it does come down to those two. And any chance I think the Oilers have of winning this series, it is going to be because they have the better stars than Dallas does. Because Dallas is just as deep as them, deeper. A couple news bits to come out of Dallas before we get to our con picks here.

Rupa Hintz is day-to-day. He's skating a ton. He has skated the last couple days. He hasn't played since I believe game three. of that series against the abs with, you know, whatever, watch the replays you can, you can guess. Got cross-checked and blocked a shot,

I think, on the same shift. And that was the last anybody had seen him. But it seems like he's ready. Yanni Hock and Paw, also day-to-day, that would be a nice get for Dallas. It would help, you know,

fix one of their biggest issues for the entirety of the playoffs, which is they only have five, defenseman that Peter DeBoer's comfortable playing in any real capacity. So that's, so that's good. And Jake Ottinger's sick. He was under the weather yesterday. So we'll see what that translates to on Thursday night, but he was not feeling all yesterday. So the stars to some degree are going through it. We'll see how it shakes out. Let's start with them. Maxie, who's, uh, who's your con for them? Am I crazy to say why it's Johnson or Hayston? I don't I want to say Johnston.

What I'll say about Johnston is that he dipped a little bit during the I have series. Like for his great, for as great as he was in round one, you know, you don't necessarily want to call it a start. Because like that kind of diminishes how good he was during the regular season. But it did, it was him,

you know, doing it on a bigger stage. And I think, I think showing his game to some people who maybe hadn't, you know, been tuned into how good he was during the regular season. We love what he did in round one. I'm a little concerned about the productivity dip in round two.

Maybe on a team level, who knows, but I think for the con, that's it. Well, I will see. And it's going to, for him, it would have to be about the goals, right? Like, he's, he's a good, complete player, but at 20 years old, like, I don't think we can, we can really credibly state that he's taking, like, the toughest defensive situations and all that, right? Like, he's a good player.

He's a complete player. He's in all situations guy. but not at the level of like a Barkhova or a Trochev yet. It's going to have to be the goals and the goals in big moments, which is what he did in round one, no doubt. And that's, I think maybe I'm still riding that narrative a little bit.

I will say Hayskinan does fit that, that Barkhoff definition. Well, anybody like Johnston gets a pass, though, because they won the series, right? Like, like it's like, like people aren't going to, people aren't going to invalidate my entire point,

but I don't know that people are going to remember that, you know, Johnson didn't have a great five-on-five series in the second round. If we're talking about Dallas as the Stanley Cup champions and him as their leading points getter or whatever, I'm not sure that that's going to be enough to, I'm not sure that that's going to be enough to. No, it depends. It depends with the trajectory as the rest of the way, right?

If Johnson scores three more game winners, he's going to win it, right? But I will say this, the more I think about this, right? We talked about kind of the paths for someone like, you know, Shesterkin, for example. if the stars get past McDavid and Drysiddle here. Audinger is going to be a big reason, of course. So is Muir Haskinen, right? And Hayskinin fits that definition that we talked about, you know, kind of narrative-wise with Barkav,

where I know I, and I'm sure many other voters, want to give this man awards, right? Like, he is one of the best defensemen in the league. He's in there at a time with McCar and Hughes and Fox in a way that, like, you know, yeah, maybe he's going to get a Norris one of these years. I certainly think he deserves to be a, that conversation. But the Khan Smyth is one of these awards that we can give up a player who plays the kind of game that Hayskinan plays no qualms. His team wins the cup. You know he played

27 minutes. You know he got all the toughest matchups. You know he was out there blocking shots with leads late in games, trying to chase one down late in the game if they trail. He's Mr. everything for them. And so that actually, the more I think about this, the more I would have to probably think Heiskin gets it. I think if Ottinger had been a little bit better over the course the first two rounds, this would have been served up on a plate for him because the forwards are cannibalizing each other when it comes of votes because, you know, good as Johnson's been by the time it's all said and done. I know we keep saying this phrase, but it's something that we need to, you know, internalize for this discussion. It's, it's, if Dallas wins the

cup, it's very possible that you're talking about Wyatt Johnson being up there and Matt Dushan being up there and who knows where Pavelsky, you know, pops up and yada, yada, there's going to be a lot of, there's going to be a lot of attrition, I think, among the forward group. So I think that opens the door for someone like Ottinger or someone like Hayskinin to step up and really and really siph it off votes. So I think it's Hayskinnan because Ottinger hasn't been great thus far. My one concern about Hayeskinen is that I wonder if he gets dinged for having Chris Tanev around because of how much people love the rightfully so,

completely understandably. Chris Tenev, he's another one. He's a perfect hockey player. Like you asked me to imagine my ideal defenseman. Like it's pretty close to what Chris TNAV brings. And I'm wondering if people maybe when push comes a shove and it's time to write, you know, write our picks on little slips of paper and hand them to Pierre LeBron in the press box,

I wonder if that comes through. So I think there is a path to victory for Jake Ottinger here, I guess, is what I'm saying. That's a very good point. I didn't even think about that with Tanov. This is a, have you in DGB talked about this? Are the stars the greatest old guy without a cup team ever? We talked about it for a significant amount of time yesterday.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. What was the verdict? Because they got to be close, right? They ran and hid with the honor for this particular set of playoffs. Yeah. For this playoffs. I just mean ever.

Oh, I know. How many ever have this many? Probably some wings back in the late 90s. maybe oh yeah yeah yeah right whenever but like in the in the in the in the cap era if that's how we're judging this i don't i don't think second place is all that close because and it starts with pavalsi because everyone loves joe and he's played for forever and he plays you know a particularly fun old man style of game i say this is someone who's like probably six months younger with him or whatever um but yeah i i think i think they're they're running and hiding

with it. It's a shame. It's a shame that it seems like, I mean, who knows? What if Jamie Ben goes off? What if Pavelsky goes off? Is it, I don't know. It's, it's an interesting thought. Can one of those guys actually get it done? I'm, I'm hesitant to, I'm hesitant to say that they can, that they can win the con. I think, I think that honor might just be, you know, whoever gets the, Whoever gets the cup pass from from Ben, that might be, that might be the best way to. That might be the tell. Yeah, that might be the best way to judge it. I mean, we'll see.

It's interesting. It's something to track. It is. And I mean, they're kind of the, this is why we've liked them all year, right? They're the, the true team kind of thing, right? It's the, it's everybody. It's the, you know, what's their saying a little less for a lot more, right? Like, that's them.

And as a result of that, you get this cohesiveness, this like, 04 Detroit Pistons thing where it's like, I don't even know who the best player is. But I know they're great. Always comes back to the O-4 Pistons with this kid. That's the first time I've ever mentioned the O-4 Pistons on this show. On Mike. Yeah. All right. Edmonton, it's Stu Skinner.

We can move on. Yeah, that's right. Is it, is it McDavid or Drysiddle for you here, though? It's McDavid. McDavid's going to win it. If they win, McDavid wins, whether he deserves it or not. I think there's something to that. that, yeah. It's just the way it goes.

Sidney Crosby has a consignyth that he probably shouldn't have gotten. It's the Canadian factor. It's true. Evan Bouchard might deserve it at this point, that he's been lighted out unbelievable. But I don't think people are going to be able to resist. Look, man, again, take us to Game 7 in Edmonton. game seven in New York and Connor McDavid has two assists

in a three one win and Pierre comes around and he's asking people for for their votes and they're doing the straw poll and you know 75% of the voting populace is Canadian or whatever it ends up being I don't think people are going to be able to resist I think you can write this one in pen Bushard is interesting that's I hadn't really totally consider

that, but that is an interesting one. Yeah, I think. Leading the playoffs and average game score. Like, he's, and he's been, he's, him and, like, that top pair in Emmington, they've leveled up defensively, too. It's not just strictly because of, because of point production. They're, there are, there been all situations beasts for them so far. I do vaguely remember seeing, did he have like a, Bouchard has like a 60% expected goal share

through the first two rounds, too. Yeah. And that, and again, absolutely, absolutely does. And that's not just because. you know, he's driving offense. Like, there, there, there's a lot of shot suppression and a lot of chance suppression going on there with him and Matias Ecclman. They've been, they've been great. He's not going to want it, though.

Like that'll, on a team with Connor and Leon ain't happening whether he deserves it or not. And that's just, that's just the way it goes. So. Well, let me tell you how my narrative brain works a little bit here, Sean, as we've talked about this. Because I do think of like McDavid as the MVP, the best player in the world. But dry sidel, in the past few people. playoffs kind of has been the wow in the playoffs though he's your guy and they're both great like they're they both have literally historic playoff production from both of them but i do and maybe it's

because dry saddle had the injury that he played through a couple years ago he seems like he maybe is playing through another one right now he also had it he had a stretch last year that was just against against it stretching into that second round against Vegas going from the first of the second round where he was just on absolutely dominant right and so when i think about the oilers i do think like yeah dry settle and the playoffs finds that other level and so maybe that's maybe why i think this is a little more of a race than you do but it i do think it comes down to one of those two i hadn't really thought about bouchard as the dark horse but there's a pretty good case there too just never never underestimate the canadian factor this is the american hour this this week we can

safely say that oh yeah uh max is beginning to look like you fell in a pool so we're gonna take i get my air i get my break you get you get you get you get you get your you get your your break. We'll just do a quick recap here. Our cons our cons my picks basically are Barkov. I think I think we kind of crystallized on on that for Florida. Rangers, much as I want to give it to Vinny Trocheck, it feels like it's going to be Shisterkin. I'll hold the line on Trocheck there. I love it. This is you defend Western Pennsylvania, my boy. That's right. We love you for it. Caping up. Dallas. Where did we land? I think I think we're Hayskinnan. We'll say Hayskinin.

and Edmonton Stewart's I mean that's right take a break we're right back we're back we're back

at segment three Max is back in the car looking shiny let's say that's just the glint in my eyes you're glowing that's right

Haley's not here but we're going to do a quick little PWHL Air Friar regardless that series is the final between

Boston in Minnesota is a best of three. Minnesota tied it in game two. Big game from Taylor Heisey, who, you know, number one overall pick. She started out strong and seen her production dip a bit over the course of the regular season, but she had a big game in game two to tie it up. Game three is in St. Paul tonight, St. Paul number five on our St. Power rankings. and Haley will be there hopefully if she's not too sick.

What do you think is better for that league, Sean? If the number one overall pick wins the championship in the first year or if like a all-time icon like a Hillary Knight takes in the first year? That is a great question. I think both of those markets have a lot of room for growth. I'm trying to think what would be. It's tough not to look. at Boston and see, and see Knight and see like Alina Mueller and see Megan Keller and some of those

like brand name players that they have. And also they have the best goal turn in the league, Aaron Frankel, who Haley wrote a feature about a couple days ago. It's really good. You should read it. Great story. She's short for a goalie. She's five, five, but she's, you know, kicked ass everywhere. She's played. She went to Northeastern and won a Patty Caz there. And again, She's going to, if she hasn't, she's, she had the best season of any goaltender in the league. So there's a lot of star power on Boston, I think. And I'm, oh, and I'm also, again, super biased because I picked them to win it at the start of the season. So, yeah, actually, that's, that's what tips it completely in their favor is that I really, really want to lord that over everybody because I'm the only one who has a chance to be right.

Because I can't remember who you pick, but Haley, Haley on the show picked New York. And that, that didn't not do well. I just think like the idea of like a photo of Hillary Knight lifting the cup is like that that goes a long way, right? And Taylor Heiseel have her time, obviously. And, you know, there's young stars. You mentioned Alina Muehler. There's young stars on Boston too. But I think that's kind of what you want is you want that photo of the iconic player lifting the first championship.

I think that's, I think that'd be really good for the league. Maybe Poulan would have been a little better, right? But it would have been better. If you want to think about it in marketing terms or what have you, it would have been better if Montreal or Toronto would have found some way to be involved with this. But they're not. So who cares? We're talking about two American teams.

That's right, baby. Boston and Minnie. Again, it's tied at one. So it should be interesting. Game three is tonight. You can watch it on the PWHL's YouTube page. I suggest you do. It's worth your time.

It'll also be a nice little appetizer for the Western final, Western Conference Final opener, too. So let's do it. I think this standard route for the show this past week has been just talking about coaching stuff in segment three because it is that season, right? The carousel is rolling. We're seeing teams make decisions.

We're seeing guys get jobs. We're seeing fields get narrowed down and all that, all that jazz here. Thursday morning still on the East Coast. We have found out that Sheldon Keefe is the new head coach of the New Jersey Devils. A bunch of news broke to that end last night, or yesterday afternoon, and now it's locked in. He tweeted it so we know we know that it's real. Sheldon Keefe picked up his phone and, you know, sent out, made a post for the first time since we saw him on the side of a dock.

or whatever it was after the Leaf's candid. Max, where are you on this hire? And we've talked about the devils a lot. I think both of us have devil's thoughts. Do you like the fit? What do you think things are tracking for this one? I do like the fit. I don't know who the perfect hire was for the devils, right?

But I know for Keith, this is a perfect landing spot. Absolutely. And I almost want to say that this would have been, I don't want to say it would have been true of whoever. they hired. But I do think right now, you can probably start talking about Sheldon Keefe as a coach of the year finalist, completely, Jack Adams, because the devils are the team most primed to go from where they were this year to a potential. We thought they were a top eight to ten team coming into

this year. I see no reason in their roster makeup to think that that shouldn't be the expectation for them next year. And they'll get the like improvement narrative around them. So I think it's a fantastic landing spot for Keith, who I do think is a good coach. And I do think we'll bring some of the demanding to the devils and to kind of help them rein in and play better team defense. And we'll just see how well he's able to balance that with maintaining kind of some of the high flying offense. Right. Like it's kind of the, they're a little bit of a new version of kind of what he was leaving. But I do think without the magnifying glass, the fishbowl effect of Toronto, there's a lot of upside. this for Sheldon Keefe to really, you know, elevate kind of his reputation here.

And I think it could happen very fast, honestly. Sheldon Keefe is a good regular season coach. Check that box. Yep. Sheldon Keefe is a well-like guy in media circles. He's personable and friendly and seems like a good person. You check that box. New Jersey worst case scenario is going to get a full season of Jake Allen is their

goaltender, which is a Monia. monumental upgrade on VDECBanichick. And it might be better. It might be a season of Markstrom. Exactly. And we're going to have a whole off season to talk about, you know, the goalie carousel, because that is going to be spinning as well. But again, Jake Allen signed an extension.

Like, we know that he's got time left on his deal. I actually can't remember if he was signed to an extension or not. Either way, he's there. Like, that upgrade is in place. Dougie Hamilton's going to be back from, I think it was a peck injury that ended his season early, very, very early. He's the straw that stirs the drink defensively for them. So you have all these factors, right? And Luke Hughes and Nemitz won't be rookies anymore.

Good coach, good dude, decent goal attending, getting a key player back from injury, key young guys like Nemich and Hughes are going to be better. and Jack Hughes is, you know, when he's, when he's healthy and all's, in all's right, he's an MVP candidate. This seems like the pump is primed for Sheldon Kiev to, then you, then you, aside from that, and you have the, you have the narrative, you know, the, the, the bounce back narrative from a guy who just got, who just got canned by the, by the Maple Leafs. I think, I think everything is lined up. For them to make a run, and for him to make a run at, uh, at Van Gogh. And it's similar in the way that I felt about Rick Tockett at the start of the season because he was my preseason Jack Adams pick because you're like, okay, Thatcher Demko is going to be better.

Everyone loves Tucket. He's got the rep. He did media work, which is a huge part of it. And they just seem like it seemed like the pendulum was swinging back in the correct direction there. Also, but the thing about Tuckett, he had, you know, some time to get his feet under him and figure stuff out. Like, he knew what he had in those guys because he took over in midseason. It just seemed inevitable to me that Vancouver would do enough to put him at the very tippy top of the list.

And they did more than that, right? Like, it was a great, great regular season. And not a coincidence. Rick Tocke, it is your Jack Adams winner. That was announced yesterday, I believe. And it's well deserved. The one last bit of coaching news that we want to hit on before we get out of here, Marco Stern did not get the L.A. King's job.

He was an assistant there. The Sharks asked for permission to interview him, this former team, and it was granted. So, you know, if you're a Sharks fan or if you're just interested in coaches' movements across the league, that's one to watch because it's hard to believe that, you know, when you get to that point and you ask for permission and you get it and it's a player who had a bunch of good years for the org, I think it would be a little bit of an upset if it was someone other than him.

It kind of feels like the right profile for that job too. Yeah, right? Like, you know, we talked about kind of the challenge. Now, it does change a little bit when they win the lottery and now you get a coach McClellan-Cellibrieney and all that too. But, you know,

I think that a first-timer here, you know, it's your shot and you try to prove something and it's not like it's going to be your last shot, right? Like it would be if you're a guy on their third or fourth team, you know, yeah. I guess Celebrity changes the calculus, right? Because I can imagine maybe a more proven marquee guy, maybe rolling the dice on that roster. But you think Craig Barubi's coach in San Jose? You think Shelton keeps coaching San Jose in no way.

Like everything points to them being one more coaching state in a way before they're, before they're actually good. But, you know, so whatever. Marco Sturm, if it's someone else, best of luck, because we love Macklin Celebrini. He's going to be a good player, but ain't much else on that roster. Yeah, they need time. They need time. Maxie, any parting shots before you exit your vehicle?

Are you trying to goad me into our pre-show discussion? Because I'm not going there. Yes. Let's just say it was about the hierarchy of certain fan bases in their public behavior. That's right. We'll just leave at that. That's right. That's another show for another day.

And probably some other people, because I don't think you want to be any part of that. All right. Maxie, thank you for braving the elements. Go inside and take a cold shower or something. I think that's exactly what I'll do. Thank you, fine folks, for listening to the Athletic Hockey Show. Max and Corey and Wheeler are back tomorrow with the Prospect Show. And there is no Monday show.

So Mendez and Las are recording on Tuesday instead because it is Memorial Day here in the great United States of America. And then the rest of the week goes on his schedule. It'll be me and DGB and Frankie and then the three of us way back on Thursday as well. Maybe we'll have a PWH champion to talk about at that point. Got to wait and see. All right, buddy. Cool down. Everybody have a nice week and we will talk to you soon.