The Athletic Hockey Show - Connor Bedard, Josh Manson and the cowardly slash

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

On this Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, Ian and Laz discuss Josh Manson’s controversial slash on Connor Bedard over the weekend, why the Rangers’ Matt Rempe fighting every other night is unsustainable and dangerous longterm, a brief history of NHL teams using their home rinks to mess with their opponents, and much more.Before that, NHL insider Pierre LeBrun joins the show to discuss the latest rumblings ahead of this Friday’s trade deadline including the Devils’ pursuit of Jacob Markstrom, potential landing spots for Pavel Buchnevich, if the Pens would consider trading more than just Jake Guentzel, and more.Plus, The Athletic’s own Jesse Granger talks to the guys about the state of the playoff races in both conferences, the Predators’ fascinating goaltending conundrum, Johnathan Quick’s unlikely contract extension with the Rangers, and the VGK’s trade deadline targets.Take our listener survey here: http://theathletic.com/survey24 Get a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome back to your Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, as always, it's Ian Mendez and Mark Lazarus with you to kick off your week in the NHL. We're headed to the trade deadline Friday, so T-minus five days. And Pierre LeBrun is going to drop by as our NHL insider. Our guy, last, we think we have Jesse Granger locked down. It's hard to get Jesse Granger locked down these days. He's a busy man.

He's got places to be. sleep to have. Yes, exactly. You know, asking a guy in Vegas to get up early on a Monday every week. Yeah, but Jesse always points out. Like, he feels like he gets defensive. Like, I don't go to the strip. People who live in Vegas don't actually go to the strip.

I'm like, yeah, sure, buddy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So Granger will come by. We'll talk about, you know, some goalie-related stuff as that's his wheelhouse, playoff races in the conferences, all of that. So we're looking forward to a jam-pack show. Before we get rolling here, though, Las, I do want to let the listeners know about something.

Your opportunity to give us some feedback. So you sit there on your smartphone or speaker or whatever, and you listen to us, and now we want to hear from you. So we want you to fill out a quick survey about you, your podcast habits, all that stuff. Go to theathletic.com slash survey 24. And don't worry, Las is incentivizing this for you.

Okay? Las is there's nothing I love more than hearing from our listeners and readers. Yeah, that's right. I'm so positive and happy. Oh, man. In fact, that's the first thing we're going to get into with you because it's, yeah, the comment sections are always interesting. But with this one, with this survey, we're actually going to handpick three people who fill

out our survey. You're going to get a $100 gift card to Amazon. $100 Amazon gift card coming your way. So whether you're a brand new lister to the Athletic Hockey Show, you're popping by by the first time, and you just want to tell us what you think. We want to know. We want your feedback.

Again, athletic.com slash survey 24. Athletic.com slash survey 24. We're also going to fire that link into this episode description. All right. And you don't need to suck up to us to win the card, just to be clear. It doesn't have to be like, who says the nicest, floweriest things about Ian

Mendez or anything like that. No, in fact, yeah, if anything, we're looking for real feedback. Like constructive, what's the word? Constructive criticism, right? Yes, there you go. We don't want destructive criticism. We want constructive, constructive criticism. So last, I am coming at you and the listeners today from the West Coast, California. That's my favorite spot. Like, if I were independently wealthy and I'd have to be to live there, that's where I would choose to live is Manhattan Beach, California. I spent a ton of time there into playoffs in my first couple of years in the beat when the Blackhawks and Kings were going at it and then the ducks. I just love it there, man. I'm jealous of you. Yeah. So as you can imagine,

the trip from Ottawa to Los Angeles isn't as, it's not easy. And it included a busted connection and a reroute through Montreal, all that good stuff. But this is going to end up being about a 10-day trip for me all when it's all said and done. I need to know from you, Las, because I go carry on the whole time. I never checked my bags. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure I'm not a weirdo. What I do on those trips? Yep.

I will intentionally book a hotel in the middle of those trips. I used to those circus trips where it's like seven cities in 14 days. And I would make sure the third or fourth city was one of the hotels that has coin off laundry where you could do your own laundry. So you got to stay at like a fairfield in or a spring hill. Can't just stay at all the flagship marries. They want to charge you like 20 bucks for a pair of socks to do laundry. You got to find those little coin out places. That's one of the tricks of the trade.

Exactly. So that's what I'm hoping to do here at some point is fire in some logic. Because I knew that with my luck, if I got onto a plane from Ottawa and got off in L.A. And check the bag, it's not showing up. That's the beauty of living in Chicago is I can get just about anywhere direct. It's one of the great advantages I have being in a hub city right in the middle of the country. Yeah, it's the exact opposite of Ottawa. So, all right.

So speaking of Chicago, though, we got to talk about your column last week. And can we just call this the slash? Is that what the slash hurt around the hockey world? Yeah, I mean, Josh Manson of the avalanche just absolutely cheap shoted Connor Bedard right on the wrist. And anyone who's ever worn a hockey glove or played hockey or been around hockey knows that. That's one of the most vulnerable spots of your body is that there's no meat on that wristbone, right?

That little bone that sticks out underneath your thumb. And a hockey glove doesn't really protect it, doesn't really cover the little flap at the end of it. So, I mean, it doesn't take much to break a guy's wrist. And Josh Manson could have broken Connor Bedard's wrist. And look, I got Avalanche fans telling me that it was retaliation because Bedard did something dirty, which is distinctly possible. This is hockey. And Bedard's been getting more physical lately.

But there's just, in my mind, there's no excuse for, you know, it's from behind. The puck is a million miles away. And we have video proof of this guy smacking a star player on the wrist, any player on the wrist, but it's particularly a star player. And no suspension, no fine, no nothing. It's not only that, it's like embrace. People like, yeah, big boy hockey, this is what we want. And I just, I don't understand the rationale that, you know,

just because something is violent makes it good. Just because it happened in the 1970s makes it good. Every other league is prioritizing its stars, protecting its stars. And here's the NHL going, yeah, second pairing defensemen's hacking the biggest, you know, one of the two, three biggest names in the game right now. this is what we want. And it's just such an archaic, backward way of thinking. And it's one of the reasons why hockey is not as popular as other sports in the States.

Like, Badard is the dominant young superstar in this game. This is the same as, to me, doing it to McDavid or Crosby. And they did it to McDavid and Crosby. That when they were rookies to, this is like an intimidation tactic, right? Like, this is like, look at me. Welcome to the NHL. kid. Give me a break. It's a, it's a sucker. It's a sucker slash, right? It's like, you're not even like looking the kid in the eye when you're hitting them. It's cowardly. It's gutless.

Oh, so the two slashes I always think about way back in the day when Mario Lemieux, and just again, to show you how, as you say last, this has been a problem for a long time. And I think it's the 92 playoffs. It's the Rangers and the Penguins. Adam Graves, with a two-hander on Mario Lemieux right in that same spot. Like, there's no reason to slash a guy there unless that is what you're trying to do. And Mario Liu knew with this, right?

Yeah, isn't that one of it, we call it a Mickey Mouse League because guys were doing that all the time. It's like there's no reason to do it except for intent to injure. Like, it's one thing, if Connor Bernard has the puck there and you're trying to like, you know, lift his stick or just whack his stick out of his hand even,

And you miss and hit him in the wrist, all right, that's a hockey play. That's a hockey play that went awry. The puck wasn't even in the zone. And Bedard was facing the other way skating out of the zone. There was no reason to do it other than you're trying to injure one of the most important people in the NHL. And the NFL's like, yeah, good job, buddy. That's what we want. All right.

Good stuff. Hockey. You know what? So it was Wayne Gretzky who called the league. Remember Wayne Gretzky called the Devils of Mickey Bouse? organization. Oh, it was, let me be a garage. Garagely. So, okay. So the funny thing on that is, I always thought

he must have meant garbage league, right? But apparently, no, apparently he meant garage league because that's a term in Quebec. Apparently, oh, there you go. It makes sense. You know, it's like a, you know, it's an inferior product is what he's saying. It's like a garage band. It's just like, you know, a bunch of guys hacking away in the garage. That's all it was.

right? Oh, man. Look at the other sports. So, like, you know, we're watching NFL games. Oh, I can't believe they called roughing the passer on that. But the league is healthier. It's making more money. Players are making more money. And it's more popular than it's ever been because they started protecting their stars.

No, not Justin Fields. As Chicago fans will tell you anytime he gets it, it's okay. But like, like, this is what other sports have done. They have made it easier on stars to be stars because people are paying to watch Connor but dart they're not paying to watch josh manson smack a guy in the wrists you know bears fans wouldn't complain you know they could i don't know if you know this last they could have drafted mahomes i know nobody really i hadn't heard that no nobody nobody knows that yeah such an underreported story so much you get on that nobody nobody's talking about it but you're

right they know that if you sneeze next to pat mahomes or lamar or whoever you're going to get the flag and guess what scoring is back up and yeah I see people complaining that's not the way football was played back in the day. Who cares? 140 million people have just watched the Super Bowl. It's doing okay. Yeah. And it's,

I like offense. I really do. I think scoring is great. And, you know, the other slash I think of two last is P.K. Suban in the playoffs in 2015, put a two-hander on Mark Stone when he was in Ottawa. Oh, yeah.

And this turned into a huge debate. And of course, Montreal fans defended it. Oh, PK's just, he's doing what he had to do. And, you know, Stone ended up fracturing his wrist. And that was that. But it's a targeted play. Like there's no other reason why you're doing this to somebody. Like, it's like I can almost understand why Josh Manson did it because that's been

the hockey. What I don't understand is why people like it. Like, you know, you go read the comment section on my call. Let me go look at my Twitter mentions after I first brought it up. And people are, they're not just defending it. They're embracing it. Like, yeah, this is what we want. And like, I'm not trying to legislate violence out of hockey.

Violence is a part of hockey. You know, hitting guys, you know, being physical, removing a player from the puck. If the violence has a reason, if the point is to get the puck back, then yeah, we want all that violence in the NHL, you know, as long as it's not head shots and things like that. We want to see guys getting hit. We want to see smears along the boards. we want to see guys battling all the time. But I don't see how anybody thinks this is good.

Who does this benefit? How does this make the game better? It does absolutely nothing for anyone. And more people seem like, it's like this old school mentality where I want, or To Blake would have done it. And it's like, well, who gives a crap what Toll Blake would have done? It's 2024.

Let's make the game better than it was in the 1930s. I don't understand this at all. Do you know how Toe Blake, by the way, totally random fact? You know how he got his nickname? No idea. Okay. So his actual name is Hector.

Hector Blake. I know. There's just not enough Hector's in the world. Can we just say that? And I think it was his little sister that couldn't say his name properly and called him Hector. And it just stuck. They just stuck with the end of it.

Here I thought it was because someone had slashed his toe off during the game or something like that. Exactly. Wouldn't you think that that's Toe Blake, he played with four toes and like, no, no, is this like Mordecai three finger brown or something.

He was an old Cubs pitcher, wasn't he? Back of the day, Mordecai. Somebody pitcher, yeah, Hall of America. Yeah,

Mortykeye three finger brown. Like what a great, yeah. This is why we need better nicknames in hockey. Like, I'm all for a toe Blake. Now he would just be Blaker or Blakecy. Yeah.

Yeah. Every time, every time some Blackhawks. says bedsy. I'm like, come on, man. Really? It's going to be bedsy for the next 20 years. Bedsy? Killing me. Do they go CB at all for him for Conner Bedard? Nope. The funny thing is a lot of guys just call him Connor

when one of the alternate captains on the team, Connor Murphy is named Connor. Connor Murphy lost his name to this kid. Oh, yeah. The Blackhawks Twitter account's like, Connor's in the building. It's like they're not even acknowledging there's another Connor in the whole team. The longest tenured Black Hawk is named Connor, and he has been erased from existence. He does not have a name anymore. He's a complete afterthought. All right.

Listen, before we bring Pierre LeBron into the mix here, one asks you, so of all the comments that you got on the Bedard story, what's the one, whether it was on our page, on social media, whatever. What's the one that you were like, I can't believe that somebody actually has this mindset about the best young player in the game being slashed and somebody defending it. It was a lot of the usual, the beta stuff, you know, you're a beta male who wants hockey to be boring, whatever, all that, all that usual stuff I get no matter what I write. Like I can write about like the fourth line, you know, or check and I would get that.

But the one that really, I put it in the column was Brent Sopal, a former Black Hawk player, a really tough guy. Like this guy is famously, you know, eating Shea Weber slap shots during that 2010 cup run. like a really likable, tough guy. And he tweeted back at me that it was a big boy hockey and he called it a wonderful play. And I just, what? What are we doing here, man?

Like, how is that a wonderful thing? Oh, you tried to injure a small child. Good job. I'm proud of you. Man. Yeah, like, but the problem is, and you have to respect the soples of the world because they did, they played in the game, right?

But the problem is that no one is allowed to have a counterpoint because they're like, well, he played the game. Oh my God. You never played the amount of times I've had in the last five days, I've had someone tell me you clearly never played the game. Like a congratulations on your beer league hockey. You're a much bigger authority now than anybody else.

Give me a break. You don't have to play the game to know what a cheap shot is and to know how cowardly it is to attack a guy from behind like that in a vulnerable spot. Get out of here. You know what I think last? You know what I think a reporter should do? do the next time a coach or a player snaps at us for that's a garbage question whatever so you know

what you've never been a reporter you've never seen a scrub you've never been a journalist have never ever held a reporter even once in your life my god man have you ever used the otter app have you imagine have you ever strung a coherent sentence together that's one we can actually asked him with these guys. All right, Las, as always on a Monday, we bring in our NHL insiders,

although it's a one-man show today. Chris Johnston, unavailable, but Pierre LeBron is ready to handle the load all by himself. How is Pierre Lebrun doing on the Monday leading into the deadline? It's five days to go.

How's Pierre LeBron doing? I'm Zen, man. I'm Zen. It's all good. It's probably the quietest weekend I can remember ahead of a trade deadline in many years. is now, mind you, the deadline's been pushed back to Friday now.

He used to be on a Monday or Tuesday, as you guys remember. So that's part of it. But yeah, pretty quiet. I mean, on the phone all weekend, talking to a lot of teams and agents, but waiting for waiting for some headlines here, which is just around the corner. You know, I've always wanted to ask you, what is it like on set at the pre-agent and frenzy? You're on camera, but working in the background.

I'm sure you've got producers in your ears. You're trying to pay attention to what the main panel is doing with Duthie. those guys. How do you have any focus at all during that 11 hours, whatever it is you're on TV? Yeah. Yeah, we've got to be there by 7 a.m. on Friday and we'll be on air until about 6.30 p.m.

First of all, I do not listen to the main panel whatsoever, Lazz. I completely ignore them. Whatever those guys are doing over there is their business. When someone's screaming in our ear that they're coming to Gordon Miller and the rest of us, that's when to pay attention. And the reason for that, I'm being funny, but really our conversation the

entire time is between Darren Dregor and Chris Johnson and I, and we're comparing notes, Bob McKenzie the legend. We'll be back with us on Friday coming out of Simon Retirement. And we're just constantly exchanging information, trying to make all the pieces of the puzzle fit as a team. And we don't care who breaks it. It's all about let's get it out. Let's get it out. And so it's really about working as a team that, and, and yeah, it's a blur. Honestly, you don't even know what time it is half the time. But the reason you wear the earpiece is that they tell you that in about five seconds, you're up next for an update.

So be ready. And how do you guys sneak in food? This is what Lazan and I really want to know. How do you guys speak about Jake? I want to know this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there you go.

You want to know how the sausage is made, no pun intended. there's actually there's an email that goes out it went out a couple weeks ago asking us what are we thinking of for lunch there's a menu that goes out to everyone that's there that day and you demand like a bowl of M&Ms with all the

green ones removed and I think I chose a spicy chicken wrap with mixed salad as my lunch and that's pretty much all I'll have all day I don't like having breakfast I just go off coffee for the first half of the day and then I'll try to

of that wrap in me. Yeah. Yeah. But that's how it's organized. It's well catered and we're always well taken care of. My TSA had no question. Well, let's get into the rumor mill itself. And, you know, Chris Johnson's got his latest trade board up.

Jacob Markstrom is obviously rocketed up there. I know you wrote in your weekend column about the devils, about Markstrom. It feels like this is the story that it won't go away. So what's the latest on New Jersey and Jacob Markstrom? Yeah, I'm not quite sure why. CJ moved them up that much because I don't know that much has changed there other than the devils continue to phone Calgary about them. And so there is a chance that the devils end up with them by the deadline on Friday, but there's just a good a chance that it's a conversation

both teams renew in the offseason. I don't think Markstrom in his mind thinks he'll be back for the flames next year, but it doesn't necessarily mean that there has to be a resolution here at the deadline. And, you know, listen, the devils had a a horrendous road trip, as you guys may have seen. And I think it puts them in a position where making the playoffs this year is probably a tough goal for them. But that doesn't change the fact that they want Jacob Markstrom, because this is as much about setting up the offseason as anything else if the devils are able to convince

Calgary to make that deal because he's got another two years on his deal and would finally solve that piece of the puzzle for them. You know, that's not the only reason the devil's have struggled this year. I mean, I think the injury of Dougie Hamilton was massive. They'd just not been the same team defensively. I think they got young players who had to deal with expectations for the first time. You know, the devils are very bullish on trying to do what they did last year. And I think you have to learn how to win in this league.

So there's all kinds of layers to what's happened in New Jersey, but certainly getting saves, I would still put at number one. So my understanding is that the doubles circle back to Calgary last week and said, hey, by the way, we're ready to take Markstrom full on now. Six million a year, no salary retention. You know, if you want to talk, let's talk. And for the flames, it's been a really difficult conversation internally in their front office because they're winning. And they feel that if they trade Markstrom that rips the guts out of their dressing room when they still have a flickering chance,

I don't think they have a great chance to make playoffs, but they're winning games. And so that part of it, I know, has been delicate within that flames front office. So we'll see where it goes. St. Louis has been just a confounding team this year. They look like world beaters one day and then just bottom feeders the next. Pavel Bouchonavich's name is starting to come up a lot in speculation. What's your sense on him? I mean, that's the kind of addition that a contender makes that puts him over the top.

I imagine he'd be a very hot commodity. Yeah, the blues are definitely listening on him, which should not be confused with the idea that he's 100% being dealt. lad because he's not a UFA. So he's a hockey deal a year and a half left on his contract. So you get him for two playoffs if you trade for him, which to me would be really enticing for teams looking more for a hockey deal. But the price is very high is what I'm hearing from teams who have checked in with St. Louis,

as it should be, because he's not a rental. He's a guy with term. Honestly, he would make a ton of sense for teams like Vegas and Eminton who have prioritized finding a top six for Vegas, especially because losing Mark Stone and Emmington because they still have that hole on their second line they feel to play alongside Lee and Drysidal. But I wrote about this over the weekend too.

What's interesting, if you go through the exercise of listing all the forwards that are on the market and the teams that we think are looking to add those types of forwards, the names that are on the market outnumber the teams that are buying. And so what I was finding going into the weekend is a team like Edmonton, for example, has decided internally, let's be patient here.

You know, the price might be this right now for Tyler Tofoli or for, you know, Gensel or Teresenko, whomever you want to name. Maybe the price will come down by Friday. So that's, I know, a decision the Oilers have made. It doesn't mean they won't make a trade today. I'm just saying if you look at the map of it all and you try to ascertain on the United. the market, you know, where it's headed, I think the sellers could be in trouble. Now, at the end of the day, Jay Gensel is the best player available among the rental forwards. So I don't know that his price necessarily needs to change because he's sort of in

the class by himself. You look at his career playoff numbers. But overall, I just mean more globally, I think the Oilers have probably made the right call here that they're going to end up with someone by Friday at 3 p.m. Eastern. They just need to not panic here early this week. So it's interesting you bring up the Oilers because it feels like Edmonton and Vegas, Pierre, they're on a collision course to maybe meet the first round. Yeah. And that, I mean, that should be in so many ways. That should or could be the Western Conference final.

And it might be a round one matchup. Do you anticipate that if Edmonton does something, Vegas will respond or vice versa? Like, is there a bit of a battle because those two teams might be headed to a first round matchup? I think both those GMs, if they were on with us, Kelly McCrimman and Ken Holland, would deny the idea that they have to counteract each other. But they would also confirm that they're talking to a lot of similar teams on similar boards. That is a fact. There's a lot of overlapping conversations going on right now about those fours that we just talked about. Because Vegas, again, wants to bring in someone for Stone and then make that a priority as well up front.

But the difference lies in the fact that Vegas has nine and a half million to play. with on Mark Stone's cap it, whereas Emerson's going to have to make the entire puzzle work, right? I mean, Empton has just over $2 million to play with. They may have to take a guy after a roster or have a 13 broker salary retention, and the Oilers are in this

difficult position of, they will add, but it's going to take their cap people to really get busy, whereas Vegas, honestly Vegas is no cap issues now with Mark Stone gone for the regular season. Then we should stress again that

and Darren Dregor was the first to report this last week, but Mark Stoney, even as playoff availability, is in 100%. It's a pretty serious injury. You know, we're always looking for hockey trades, like you mentioned, the Bouchenevich. Is this season particularly right for that, given, you know, just the cap realities of so many teams right now where it's got to be money in, money out.

But not just that, the worst team is in the league, the teams that are tank slash rebuild don't have a lot to offer. Your Chicago's, your San Jose's, your Columbus. It's teams like, you know, Ottawa and Philly Philadelphia and Calgary and Anaheim maybe that might have some pieces to offer. Are they more looking for, you know, not so much futures, but maybe some actual pieces coming back? Yeah, well, you've seen in the trades of Calgary that the flames have already made where they're trying to get players that can help them now or very close to now. You know, they got Coosbenko to be thrown into the Lindon deal.

You know, picking the Dallas trade for Kristana of the Dallas package, you know, Grushnikov's a prospect that's, you know, 20 years old as opposed to getting a drop pick who's 18. you know what I mean? So you're seeing the trend with Calgary that they're trying to, because Calgary does not want to rebuild, they want to quickly retool. So yeah, I mean, and in fact, it's handy to remember that because you know, we know that Tampa is one of the teams

pushing hard on Noah Hanophen. The problem is, of course, Tampa doesn't have a first round pick. In fact, they may not have a pick for 17 years. But, yeah, they are in Chicago, and so in Nashville. But there are other

ways to make a trade. And, you know, they, they, they had a prospect on team USA just playing the world juniors, right? Half a big lightning. So, you know, there are other ways to maybe find a fit there. And I think that's what Calgary is looking at. But, you know, there are hockey deals out there. I will tell you, I was just talking to an agent before we came on to tape this. And he was saying something that I think as well that he thinks, you know, it's going to be busy this week, but the real fireworks in terms of quality will be around the June draft in Vegas.

This could be one of those. You know how every couple years you have an offseason that people remember and talk about? It feels like this summer it's coming because the cap's going up. There are teams that want to switch direction. Well, I mean, he's

pending UFA. But Taylor Hall is not going anywhere. So, you know, But I still think we'll see things this week. I mean, another potential hockey deal. Again, guys that aren't rentals, Frank Petrano, you know, does Anahe move him or not? He's having a heck of a year. I think he'd look amazing back with the Rangers.

You know, there are things like that for sure. You know, does Ottawa move Jacob Chikrin just to make Ian really busy. You know, I don't know that I had Steve Steyo, who said my podcast, got your back podcast last week. And Ian heard that too. He was kind of noncommittal about it. And frankly, sounded a bit disappointed that that was a narrative in your market on Chikrin. But the reality is teams are calling on him, right? So let's see if there is a hockey deal there or not.

I don't know that it's super likely because it's something, again, you can do this summer if you're the Ottawa senators. And the team, too, that we should remember in terms of hockey deals is Carolina, who, of course, sneakily got into Vancouver's year on Elias Pedersen. over the past couple of weeks, which never had a chance of flying, just so everyone knows. I mean, I never saw that trade happening.

But it tells you again, Carolina doesn't like to pay up for rentals, right? I mean, that's their M.O. under owner Tom Dundon. So if you're Carolina, there's probably a name or two they're looking at right now that's not even on CJ's trade board because they're looking more,

you know, this guy has two years left on his deal or this guy has another year in his deal. That appeals more to the hurricanes than being in the rental market. You mentioned earlier that Jake Gensel is kind of on his own in terms of his status. He's the best winger available. But it's clear that Pittsburgh, after this disastrous trip out west, you know, getting beaten down in Alberta on Sunday night against the others,

it feels like that's it for their playoff race. So if we remove Gensel from the equation and assume he's going to get moved, who else Mike Caldubis realistically moved, between now and Friday? Honestly, he's listening on everyone other than the legacy guys or the core guys. I guess he would call them going back to his news conference in the Pittsburgh market. So, you know, not listening on Latang or Malkin or Rust. You know, really couldn't move Carlson even if you wanted to at this point.

Obviously not listening on Cindy Crosby. But listening on pretty much everyone else. The problem is outside of Genshold, there are no real obvious. you know, intriguing rentals. There are guys left with term that could be interesting. Riley Smith has another year to deal at $5 million. Stanley Cup champion last year in Vegas. You know, there are those intangibles with him.

He's not had a great year in Pittsburgh, but there's always teams that feel like, you know, he'd look better on our team. So he's a possibility. But honestly, there's another team there that I think outside of Gensel, I think June will be their friend more than this week. for trying to change and shake things up on that roster, right? And, you know, for those listening,

one of the reasons why in the cap era, the offseason has become so much more fertile for roster shifting is because, of course, you've got more teams involved in the offseason. You're not just worried about buyers. And the cap can go over 10% for a number of months in the off season. You have so much more flexibility, not to mention this summer, the cap's going up, $4 million. but that's why.

So I think Pittsburgh will start that process of shaking things up this week, but I think the heavy lifting will come this summer. This is the last draft where we'll have all the GMs under one roof. I love the idea of these guys talking deals over like a craps table or something at the mirage, you know, just throwing the bones and talking trades. I think that's happened in the past. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

That is. It's true. In fact, that's probably the last draft for a lot of us traveling too. I mean, I don't, you know, because I'm going to say, connected to 32 teams that entire week, I don't know that I would travel after this year to a draft because on office is staying home. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess for people covering the, you know, the Corey Prondman and Hot Wheels of the world,

yeah, the kids will still be at the draft, right? But, yeah, it's interesting. Amazing stuff. Well, listen, Pierre, I know it's a busy, busy week ahead for you. So we appreciate you taking the time this week. laying the foundation, kind of setting up the landscape for what should be an interesting week coming up in the next five days. We look forward to your coverage, obviously, with us with the athletic, and both Laz and I are going to be tuned in on Monday. We're going to be looking to see if there's any, what did you say, spicy chicken?

Spicy chicken stains on the fight. I'm not having a salad. I would not have had the, I would not have had the wherewithal to pick a salad. That's impressive beer. Yeah. You know, I mean, I think I need to. Let's just face it. Yeah.

Love it. All right. We'll hit you up again real soon. Thanks, Pierre. See you guys. All right. Excellent stuff with Pierre LeBron. So if you're about to go on television, what's Mark Las? Are you not ordering a salad, Las because you're worried about spinach in the teeth? Are you not ordering a salad because you're like, man, I just never would have thought of ordering a salad. I'm not ordering a salad because I'm a sports writer. I don't eat anything that's not deep fried or chocolate. Are these the sports writer rules where it's like, you have to, everything's deep fried. I got Marriott points.

I listened to Springsteen. Like, is that still a thing? It's Springsteen if you're 50 or older. It's Pearl Jam if you're 49 or younger. So I'm still on the Pearl Jam side of things. Yeah. See, I would be worried about like, and he even, what do you say, spicy chicken wrap? Yeah, I'd be worried about, you know, a lot of things.

Let's put it that way. Yeah, exactly. I would be eating, but no, I would be eating like the driest food possible. No sauce. Exactly. No, I'd be so worried about like, you know, whether, you know, whether I'm shaved or not, I'd be worried about there just being like a slab of marinera sauce on my chin while I'm sitting there breaking the biggest trade of the week. I want no part of that.

I would, I think I would go plain. If I had to, I would go as if I'm a five-year-old. So give me plain chicken tenders. Ooh, good call. And maybe some fries. no ketchup, no plum sauce, just. That is safe. Like I say, yeah, like that's like a dry turkey sandwich

or maybe a little bacon on it or something, a little cheese and bacon, but no sauces or anything like that. Like, it's got to be dry. Dry is number one rule. Yeah. Are you a little, speaking of dry, you're a little worried that this grade deadline might be dry? Like, after listening to Pierre,

and he was like, trying to sell us on a Frank Vitrano deal. I don't know. I feel like we have this fear a lot because the big trades happen. Remember, Bo Horvatt was the big one last year. And he got traded like a month before the deadline. That's usually what we're worried about. But I've been worried about this deadline for months. Like Elias Linholm did get traded early,

but the fact that he was the best player on the board for much, like he's not that exciting of name to add. There's no Mark Stone this year. There's no like really big superstar trade that's likely to happen. And the Markstrom thing would have been in. interesting. That doesn't seem like it's going to happen until the summer. Jake Gensel, yeah, but he's hurt. And it's like, this is, I'm glad I'm not going to be on TV for 11 and a half hours on Friday. Put it that way. Yeah, imagine 12 hours of Vitrano watch.

I'm writing our winners and losers column on Friday. I'm penciled in for that for the, I do that one every year. And I think we might be the big losers. It's going to be really boring. Losers, all of us. All of us. Society, society in general. Hockey fans. Humankind is the big loser today. Hey, you know, we kicked off this show having a chat about the Conrad and the Manson Slash and kind of a fallout from that and sort of, you know, why is this part of hockey culture?

You know, one other topic that I think kind of leads into that, in that same realm is all of this stuff with the Rempie kid in New York. I mean, last, we saw it of the weekend again. Like Ryan Reeves wanted to go with him. He said no at first, right? And then later in the game, he did. I mean, he had a huge hit in that game. And maybe he had to quote unquote answer for the hit, whatever. But Peter Baugh, our colleague, had a really, I think, very balanced sober take on a young man whose brain is still forming.

at his age, getting into basically a fight every other game against men, not boys, not young adults, men. And how do we view that as fans? I mean, on some level, we love the story. But shouldn't we have more information that makes us a little more hesitant to celebrate? Like, how do we handle this? I don't even know. It's tough because, like, I'm not the biggest fighting guy in the world,

But I understand the appeal. And it's been fun to watch this kid just, like, tear through the league. You know, he had the game winning goal in a game. He's got some funny interviews. He's like 11 feet tall. There's so much to like about this kid and everything he's doing. But it's becoming uncomfortable to watch. Like literally, like, I'm getting queasy watching this guy.

Like, oh, he's got two black eyes. And he's throwing haymakers with Ryan Reeves, who's just going to give him, like, you know, a broken nose or something. Like, the human head is not supposed to take this kind of, We're just, we're reveling in this head trauma that this kid is taking. And like you said, he's only 20, 21 years old. Your brain isn't fully formed until your mid-20s. He is doing potentially serious damage to himself.

And I almost feel like he's doing it almost out of obligation. Like he's like looking over his shoulder to the bench. Like, can I take this fight? Is this okay if I do this again? And it's tough because he's such a fun story in so many ways. But we've kind of crossed the Rubicon where I don't want to see it anymore. I want him to stop. And Peter had some interesting stats.

He went back on HockeyFights.com, and he was not fighting nearly this often in the HL. He was a fighter. He would get, you know, a dozen fights a year in the HL, but he's fighting, like you said, every other game. And he's doing it when he's already hurt. Like he's physically, there is visual evidence of the damage done. And then he's going out and doing more.

And every tough guy in the league wants to take a run at this kid now because he's the big superstar. fighter all of a sudden. So he's going to get asked to fight every single game. And he's got to learn to say no for his own sake and for the team's sake. Well, Matthew Renpe, I think, like he's never, he played in the Western Hockey League and then with Hartford and the H.L. Like, last, he's never had a hundred-poundy minutes in a season. Like, it's not like, like he said, it's not like he was this bruiser all the way up that, uh, boy, it's, uh, he's taking, like, he's taking, like, he's taking, some really, really hard, heavy punches from some real hard, heavy guys.

And it started with the outdoor game, right? Now, basically before he ever really played the NHL, it was go time. If Matthew Rempey plays for Nashville or Florida or Carolina, is this a story? Is it like, I feel like because it was the outdoor, game and it with the Rangers and it just sort of started from there. Like, do you think that if you played another team that this would be a talking point?

I think it's still what I think we overrate, and this is going to sound ridiculous, but we overrate the Rangers in terms of their reach. Like they're not that much, like they're not Toronto. They're not Boston. Like in New York, the Rangers are like the seventh or eight biggest team because there's two team, two baseball teams and two basketball teams and three hockey teams. they're not like a dominant story in New York day after day. The NHL world, they're a really good team.

They're a legitimate Stanley Cup contender, and it was an outdoor game. I think that is why maybe it paid a little more attention to. But if this kid's doing it in Nashville, I think he's still getting notified. He's getting noticed. If every tough guy in the league is challenging a six-foot-eight rookie to a fight, I think that's going to be a story regardless. So I want to draw this in because Kevin Kurz and I did a joint story. that dropped today on the athletic.

And this is the... It was great. Everybody should read that one. And this is the push and the pull that we have sometimes as hockey fans of, you know, how do we celebrate fighting and enjoy it and kind of... You know, how do we go through what, you know, in the 90s, in the 2000s, when we loved it and it was awesome. I mean...

We just know so much more about head trauma than we did even in the 90s. in the 2000s. Like my job before I covered the Blackhawks, I was a local sports editor at a suburban paper in Indiana, and I wrote extensively about concussions in high school football. And, you know,

I talked to medical experts at Purdue about it and like the amount we know now, it's unbelievable we almost let, it's almost unbelievable that we allow people to play football, like that is legal to play football. And so when we're out there, every play. Yeah. And that's what it is. Those subconcussive hits, the repeated

trauma is almost worse than when you get like one big helmet to helmet crash. It's like being an offensive lineman in high school football where nobody has good technique and you're just banging heads on every play, those are the kids that are really at risk. So the more you know about this stuff, the more uneasy you get about it. Like, look, I said earlier, I'm not a fighting guy. I'm not a big fighting guy, but there's no denying that when there's a big fight,

you're drawn into it. You're leaning forward in your seat. You're like, oh, my God, did you see that right hand? And the kid, oh, that guy got knocked out cold. It's hard not to get swept up in it. It is exciting in its own way when it's not one of those, you know, bear hug fights. But, you know, then you almost immediately feel guilty about that. Like, oh, that's someone's potential livelihood.

That's just being risked for no reason. Like, I'm not that opposed to the fights where it's just a motion boiling over. And it's guys reacting in the heat of the moment. I think we all hate the staged fights. Like, oh, I'm losing four to one. So I have to fight someone to change the energy and change the momentum. I hate that crap. And that's what a lot of these ramp.

fights are is they're not in the heat of the moment. They're staged. And I don't like that. I don't like the ones that come right off of a face off. You know, you take a hit. If someone had attacked Josh Manson after he slashed Connor Bedard, that's a fight I can understand. Like, okay, you're defending your teammate. Now, nobody did that because nobody saw it. And I think, you know, the Blackhawks played Colorado tonight, Monday night, and I think we're going to see something. Like Josh Manson's going to, now that it's a talking point, someone's going to do something. But, and that's stupid too almost to do it three days. later four or five days later.

I just, every time I see a guy take a bare knuckle punch to the skull, I get uneasy about it. And the fact that they start with their helmets on, you know, Nick Falino broke a finger during a fight earlier this year. Like it's really stupid to punch guys in the helmet too. Like a lot of this is

really stupid and there's a reason no other sport allows this. Yeah. Yeah, it's, uh, anyway, so yeah, we'll see what happens on Monday night with, with, with, with the blackpox and, uh, Garrett's a Norty or Reese Johnson. Someone's going to go after Josh Manson.

Manson, he knows what's coming. He'll answer for it and it'll be over because that's how hockey works. And that's why people like the self-policing is it does kind of get squashed very simply. As long as you drop the gloves and you accept a fight, it's over and everybody moves on. That's the one good thing about a fight. But I don't like these like, hey, let's go. Like, no, fight a guy because you're mad at it. I'm not because you feel you have to.

And the piece that Kevin Kersen I did, this week is the, 20-year anniversary of the Ottawa-Filadelphia brawl that ended up with an NHL record 419 penalty minutes. Never had as many penalty minutes as this in a game. And so Kev got a hold of Hitchcock, Kenny Hitchcock, Bob Clark, Robert Ash. My job was get Marty Havlatte, Jason Spetza, Patrick Lillim, all these guys. The one thing that we got to the bottom of, and this is, I can't imagine this happening today. But at the end of the game last, Bobby Clark, who is then the general manager of the Philadelphia Flyers, tried to get into Ottawa's dressing room to go at Jacques Barton.

What a sport, man. What a sport. Okay. So it would never happen now, right? I don't think. That you think today a general manager would be so hot. He would go to the other team's dressing room and try to pull out the coach. I can, honestly, I could see it, like, during a playoff game or something, like, who, okay, then who's the GM? Three quarters, the GMs in this league are former players. You tell me, like, Pat Verbeek wouldn't be like, Matt. Bill Carrick, absolutely. Like, like, three quarters, the GMs in this league are former players.

They get hot under the collar. They're going to go after something. Mike Milberry, you tell me he wouldn't have done that in the 90s? Oh, man. Milbury would have taken the shoe and started beating. Hit you with a win-tipped. Yeah. Oh, man.

But yeah, to be that, like Bobby Clark. So I told that story to, like, I asked Rob Ray, who played for Ottawa. At the time, I said, do you remember Bobby Clark trying to get into your dressing room? And some of the guys remembered. And Rob Ray was kind of like, not really, but he's like, you know, it does remind me at the time that Bobby Clark, and this was a great anecdote. And I love this from Rob Ray. He said when the Sabres and the Flyers played in the playoff series, I think in 97, they played each other in the playoffs. And Rob Ray says they're at the Flyers practice.

I think it was practice facility ready for practice. The Flyers wouldn't turn on the lights in the arena for them. It's wild, right? I was trying to do a story earlier this year. I was asking like older veterans, like, you know, you're Jack Johnson types, you late 30s guys and Taylor Hall about like things like that. Are there any? Because I did this story, again, go back to my high school football coverage days. the local high school here at Griffith High School

was famous for having a rigged hand dryer in the visitor's locker room where once you turned it on, it would stay on for like 20 straight minutes. So if anyone tried to wash their hands at halftime, it'd be so loud, they couldn't hear the coach go over like, okay, we're going to go over the tweaks we're going to make to win this game.

And there were stories like that, all of this. There's famous the pink wallpaper or paint in the locker room in Iowa at their football stadium because it's, supposed to be calming and soothing, and they want the opponents calmed and soothed. So I was asking guys about this, and there's like almost none of it anymore because all those old rings are gone. Like Joe Lewis Arena is gone. Rexall Place is gone.

Nassau Coliseans gone. So all these new arenas are, you know, they put a lot of time and effort and money into the visitors' supporters. Whereas in the old days, that's what they would do, right? They would try to screw over as best they could. They would try to do something that would really make it impossible to do your job. And that's just one of the things that's gone by the. the wayside in the modern era.

Well, you're a big Islanders guy, right? Early 80s Islanders was your first introduction into hockey, right? I was born in 1980. I don't remember any of the cup teams. No, no, no, no, but, oh yeah, sorry, you only saw the, I saw all the

miserable. Now we have dynasty. Now it's a deadency. Right. So, and again, I'm too young for the, like, I think yeah, when the Islanders won their first cup, I was three years old. So I'm the same as you, I don't, don't remember the Islanders dynasty, but I do remember the story of the accusations of what the Islanders did to the Oilers in their dressing room in the, I think it was the second time they played the Cupsor, 84, and that they purposely put decaf coffee in the visiting team's

dressing room. That, you know, because you got to remember in the early 80s, like, you know, some guys now, maybe they'll have an energy drink or whatever, like guys take caffeine supplements, whatever. to get up for a game. Well, back then, coffee might have been it. And they still, you watch, you watch those player introses. They're always walking with a cup of coffee. Always with a cup of coffee.

So the Islanders apparently in the visitor's dressing room in the cup, switch to decaf coffee. See, see, people, like, long for the old days where the hockey was more violent. I long for those days where hockey was funnier. Like, hockey used to have so much character and color and gamesmanship back in the day where now it's like, you know, it's all professional respect and all that. Like I want to see the team is messing with each other more. I don't need to see them punching each other.

I want to see them mentally torturing each other. Oh, yeah. Well, if you think about the most famous stick measurement of hockey history, it's the Canadians and the L.A. Kings in the 93 Stanley Cup final. And the Kings, the L.A. Kings are convinced that the Canadians sent basically like a spy or a trainer into their dressing room during the daytime to measure all the sticks and to find out, okay, who's the guy who's got the illegal stick. and then we'll know.

Like that, that type of gamesmanship. Was it Albert Bell, he had a corked bat and there was like accusation that someone like crawled through like the air vents and like planted it in the visitor's room. I want more stuff like that. That's what I want in my sports. Oh, man. Albert Bell, was he not the guy that back in the day?

And I think this is what he was playing in Cleveland. And some kids egged his house. Do you remember this at Halloween? And like Albert Bell like chased them. down the street. Did that not happen? It's entirely plausible to me. Can our producer Chris Flannery just Google

Albert Bell house egged children and see what comes up and then drop it in or jump onto the show here? I feel like Albert Bell chase some kids at Halloween. That's the thing. That's what I honestly like when you're doing your story on the brawl, the Flyer Sends brawl, I'm sure you noticed that former players

are so much more fun to talk to. and current players, right? And part of that is you just get a little more loose-lipped because you don't have to answer to the team anymore. But part of it is just there was so much character and color and ridiculousness in sports, but hockey in particular in yesteryear. And now these kids come up and they're like trained to be superstars

since they were six years old. They're hockey automaton's there. They know exactly what to say and how to say it and how not to make ruffles. They don't go out to the bars on off nights on the road. They drink bottled water and bio, deal and go to bed at 9.30 p.m. to make sure they get 10 hours. And the game is, it's better than it's ever been on the ice. But, you know, we've lost a little bit of that ridiculousness, the absurdity that these people used to bring to the game. Okay. I got the story

here. Our producer Chris Flannery has found it. And Albert Bell, who was played with Cleveland at the time, was sued for $850,000 last by the guardian of a teenager accused of egging his home on Halloween and the kid says, I guess he, his home was hit, like Bell's home was hit by eggs by trick and treaters. And then this kid says Albert Bell chased them in a Ford Explorer and hit the kid. Oh my God. Yikes. Yikes. All right. That's not as funny anymore. No, it's not as funny. And he settled. And he settled anyway. Good God. Yeah, I thought he was just like chasing him with a baseball bat. that would be funny to be, like not actually getting to it, but just scaring them off.

And a cork bat. A cork bat at that, yes. All right, Lance, tell you what, we'll switch gears, bring in our pal Jesse Granger for our little segment, Granger Things, brought to you by BetMGM, the exclusive betting partner,

with the athletic. You know, Jesse, we were just chatting about Laz and I how it almost felt like from days gone by where gamesmanship lived in hockey, where the island, Islanders, maybe switched out the coffee for the oilers and all that stuff. But as you were about to jump on here, you were telling us that it's actually alive and

well. Maybe it's not dead. Maybe there's still games that been shit going on these days. Yeah, it's definitely not as obvious and prevalent, I guess, as it used to be. But this year in the first round of the playoffs, the Golden Knights were up in Winnipeg playing the Jets. And Bruce Cassidy said multiple times that the team hotel did not have hot water in the morning when they were all trying to take their showers. And the fact that he brought it up multiple times tells me that he didn't think it was a coincidence or that they maybe had just run out when Bruce went to take his shower, but it was a concerted effort to.

Well, Winnipeg doesn't have an airport. So you can't expect them to have hot water also. Wow. A lot of wise thing or anything, right? That's like the whole thing up there. It's funny because I've only been to Winnipeg in the spring. I've been there for the Western Conference final and then I went there for the playoffs. So my vision of Winnipeg is a beautiful city.

Beautiful city. I have a great time. Every time I'm there, I will admit I've never been there in the winter. And that's probably why my perception is distorted, but I love Winnipeg. I got a wonder. How does one rig the plumbing in a hotel? Like in 2015, the Blackhawks played the Predators. And when they were in Nashville in the first round, like there was like three or four straight nights that someone pulled the fire alarm in the middle of the night, like 3 a.m. And Marcus Kruger, of all people, was just like railing about, like, whining, complaining. I can't believe they keep doing this. So it's like, you could see them like sending in like some like,

low-level assistant athletic trainer or something to go and just do that and run out the building. But controlling the plumbing, like that's a good conspiracy theory right there by Cassidy. The fire alarm could just be a fan, right? All it takes is one fan that wants to help the team out. Like it doesn't have to be anything involved with the team. It could just be a Blackhawks fan or whatever, just saying, I'm going to do this. The plumbing, yeah, I don't know. I'm not going to pretend to know enough about hot water heaters to figure this out.

But I feel like if all of them were on the same floor, you might be able to to just turn the hot water heater on that floor off? I don't know. Did Cassidy have a tinfoil hat on while he was saying? Yes, you did. But, okay, but here's the thing. If you want to wake somebody up, wouldn't you want to take, you wouldn't want them to take a cold shower, right?

Like, cold showers wake you up, don't they? Maybe, maybe, yeah. I don't know. They lost game one and then they won four straight. So maybe it was Cassie. There's a wake-up call. They're like, well, we've got to. to wake up here. Exactly.

Exactly. All right. So, Jesse, let's start by kind of looking around at the playoff picture. And like, it's funny. I saw John Butchagros tweet yesterday. ESPN's John Butchagrosse. And he tweeted out, playoff races are done. That's it. I think we've got our 16 teams. Eight in the east, eight in the west. You guys agree? Disagree? Well, I think, I understand why he said that because there is a gap growing in both conferences right at the playoff cut line. Like if you if you just go down the standings and you sort the wild card, I mean, there is a right where it cuts off in the West.

There's a seven point gap between the final team and the team that's chasing Nashville and Calgary. And then in the east, it's six point gap between Tampa and the Islander. So I understand why he said that. And to me, I think the West, I'm a lot closer to calling done, the race. And it's just because I think the teams are selling, right? Like we're going to look at these. the odds, but I think that if you just look at it from a big picture perspective, the West,

you've got the Kings and the Predators are holding on to those last two spots. And then you look at the teams chasing them, Calgary, St. Louis and Minnesota, well, go to Chris Johnston's tradeboard on the athletic and which, where are all those players coming from? It's Calgary, St. Louis and Minnesota. So if you're going to tell me that all the three chasing teams, not only are they are losing ground and there's a big gap there, but they're also planning on selling at the deadline, well, that tells me maybe the race in the West is over. Whereas you look at at the East and the team's chasing in the East, the Islanders, the Devils, the Capitals, and the Penguins, yes, there's some selling vibes there, but it seems like, especially the Devils and the Penguins

have not given up on the playoffs yet and still want to make it. So to me, they're still a chase there. What do you think? Well, you look at those standings in the East and the Islanders are six points out, but they have three games in hand, right? The Devils have games in hand. The Caps have games in hand. Even the Penguins have games in hand. And, you know, I don't think anyone is completely sold. I mean, Detroit's playing really good hockey lately, but Detroit and Tampa, I don't feel like they're going to run away with this. They're not going to run away and hide. So I think the East is going to be interesting.

The West is just going to be about seating, right, and playoff matchups. The West, you know, with the heater that Nashville is on, they've kind of ruined the race. Like, that was going to be a great race. Like, Minnesota, after that horrible start was really climbing its way back into it. They're playing some great hockey. They thought maybe that could be a team that could sneak in. But Nashville is kind of ruining all the fun in the West right now. Can we agree on one thing, though, as a group collectively,

that the term games in hand is the rallying cry of the loser. It's a rally cry of the loser. It's the classic. It's hope. You've got to cling to hope. Why do you hate hope? We're seven back with two in hand.

And if we win those, then we're only three back. It's all, when you start using games in hand, or my other one that I like is, they control their own destiny. That's a similar way of saying, games in head.

I feel like Minnesota fans, Minnesota always seems to have fewer games played than everybody else. I feel like games in hand is basically like the Minnesota state motto now. After the last 10, 15 years, I'm sure wild fans will back me up here. It feels like they're always talking about the games in hand up there. Vegas is the opposite. For whatever reason, the Golden Knights are like every year, they're like five games ahead of everyone in the standings.

So whenever they start falling back in the standings like they are right now, I always love using points percentage and saying, oh, the kings are ahead of them in points percentage and the fans in Vegas do not want to hear it. They're like, no, we are four points ahead. I don't care if we've played 14 more games. It does not matter. Do not tell me about points per cent. Ian, I've an important question for you. I've talked about this with Jesse before. He always says golden nights on every reference, even when talking. Like, never mind like in his stories. He always says golden nights, the full thing. I don't understand that. Like I always say hawks when I'm shorthanding about the blackhawks because nobody in Chicago calls him the blackhawks or the hawks. I'm always amazed. Adam Vingen, our old friend and colleague, he always says predators on every reference, never says preds. Like, would you call him the Golden Knight?

It's an awful name, by way. Vegas has the worst name in pro sports. Golden Knights is a horrible name. There were so many great options. They chose the most boring thing possible. Do you call them the Golden Knights on every reference? You know what? So I'm trying to think in my mind.

But I don't think I've ever, like if I, you know, I feel like I always say Golden Knights. Now that I think about it, or I'll say Vegas. I think I more often will say Vegas. That's the funny. Is their team name is abbreviated. They're not even the Las Vegas. And the reason it's Vegas, not Las Vegas, is because Golden Knights was too long. And that's not a joke.

They said the reason he called them Vegas is because Golden Knights is too long to have Las Vegas. So because Bill Foley had to have it pay an homage to the military to. I know. know why he did it. I just don't like it. I agree. Los Vegas nights to me, better name. I don't think Golden Knights is a bad name. It's a great name. It would have been fine. Yes. But I will say it's funny because it's just Golden Knights for me that I do that with because I grew up in Colorado as an Aves fan. And I call them the Aves. I do not call them the Avalanche ever. So it's just something about, I don't know covering this team, it's just been ingrained in me. I say Golden Knights every time. I don't know why. My brain clocked it. Like, why did you do that?

Oh, man. were the other names that were even in the mix? Like, was there anything that was close? Or was it always going to be? I mean, they had like desert hawks, I think was one of them. And it was like, honestly, it was a lot of knights stuff. Like they wanted it to be the black knights, but then that was too close. That was like on the nose for West Point.

So they were like, no, West Point's going to sue us if we do that. Like, we can't. Like, Bill Foley wanted it to be, if it was up to him, it would, they would have been called the West Point black night. Like, that's what he wanted. But he ended up having to settle for their second. very colorful. I just love, I love that they were so adamant that it couldn't have a gambling connotation. And now all the league does is promote gambling 24-7 on every single brand has that they do. Aces was a popular one that everybody in Vegas kind of wanted a lot of people.

The WNBA is that, right? Yeah. And then the WNBA took that name a few years later. I wanted the Las Vegas hardways. I thought that was a really cool sounding name. It's a craps term. It sounds cool. Yeah. Unique to Vegas. But nobody ever listened to me on that one. I like, there was another one that I have no idea if this was actually considered. but rat pack was thrown around. I like that one.

Rat pack. Oh, man. Yeah, yeah. Old school. Old school. What's that? Sinatra, Dean Martin. 50s?

Yeah. A lot of, you're asking me for the decade. Struggle there, but. Exactly. Hey, Laz mentioned that the Western Conference race, we guys both kind of talked about how Nashville ruined it, right? They ruined it because they've gone on this unbelievable heater,

just to bring Vegas back into the equation. since they pulled the plug on that U2 concert, right? They've just taken off. It's remarkable, but they all of a sudden have gone from a team that was probably going to sell at the deadline, standing path. But I think UC Soros and their goaltending is a really interesting situation, Jesse, because if you look at next year, is UC Soros the undisputed number one guy two years from now? Is he the undisputed number one guy in Nashville?

Phil? I am so fascinated by the way this situation is going to play out because we don't, I can't remember this happening ever in the NHL where UC Soros is clearly one of the elite goalies in the NHL, top five, top seven, whatever you want to call it. There's, there's a, there's a class that are clearly in the elite and he is in that class. And he's only 28. He's not getting older. Like he's in the prime of his career. He should be for several years now. And you would normally say, well, there's no reason to ever think about moving that player. You have a franchise goalie. Great job. But they drafted Ascarov in the first round with the 11th pick. And I was, I have a story coming out tomorrow on young goalies. I want to see more of down the stretch. So I was

watching a lot of film of Ascarov. And like, I knew how good this guy was just from how he played at World Juniors and prior to the draft. But watching him play in the H.L and the little bit of NHL action he's had this year, I am blown away by how good this kid. it is. I think he's, I think it's a 50, 50 chance. He's the best goalie on the planet in a couple years. I think he is going to be the best goalie in the NHL. And he's 21. And you look at like, okay, remember Pecorina Soros? They had such a great transition. But those two, it was 13 years difference. Pecorine was 13 years older than Soros. And that was like a perfect handoff. Right. As Piccarine was getting old, Soros came up and they just kind of handed the baton off. It's not,

going to work that smoothly with his scar off because he's uc saroos is too young for that to work so i'm fascinated saros has one more year on his deal next year at five million and then he's a ufa and to me if you're the predators and you're a team that needs talent like they're yes they're on a heater right now they're barely going to make in the playoffs but there's no doubt that team needs more talent to be a true contender and i think you've got two goleys one that is an elite goalie one that sure as heck projects to be an elite goalie do you trade one to try to boost the rest of your team up while betting on the other one. And I'm just fascinated by which one they'll choose, how this is going to play out.

It is so interesting to me. But isn't this the way the league is going? I mean, you know, Mika Kipersoff just had his jersey retired by Calgary. I was looking back. I'm like, is he really a jersey retirement worthy guy? And I'm looking up his stats. He was playing 76, 74 games year after year after year after year. That's not how hockey works anymore.

Like other than maybe like a Vasilevsky type who is breaking down now, maybe perhaps because of it, you know, the old Mark Swamen. plan last year where you had two guys basically playing 41 games each. Isn't that the way we're going? Wouldn't having two elite goalies be better than having one more decent winger? Well, I mean, I think you're right that it is going towards tannums, but you don't see many teams with two elite ones. Boston is basically the only example. And that's not going to last very long because Swamen is an RFA coming up and he's going to have to get paid. And I don't. I imagine he's going to make a bunch of money and you can't pay them both. That's the problem. You can't pay

two. The Golden Knights did it for one year with Flurrie and Lennar here and they had like $13 million in goaltending and that was the 56 game year and they won the Jennings Trophy that year. So it worked. But you can extend this because Ascaro is going to be on an entry level deal for three years. You could sign Saras for three years at big goalie money and have three years of having an unbelievable goalie tandem. Right. You definitely could. And it's just a question of to me it's just does this team need more around those two? And like you said, is it more valuable to have two elite goleys?

Or is it more valuable to have one elite goalie? And then like a Lankan, who's a solid backup. He's not great. He's not terrible. He is a serviceable backup. I just. And then the other part of it is, what could they get for UCSaros?

Because we saw Winnipeg think about trading Connor Hellebuck right before his deal was up this past summer. And there weren't many takers. And it's not because nobody believes in Hellebuck. because they're like, well, I'm not going to give up all these picks and then sign this goalie to a massive deal that could end up looking bad like Bobrovsky or pick your goalie that's signed a big deal and it hasn't worked out. So now Soros is in the exact same situation. It's one year left. This offseason, it seems like they're not going to trade him now, now that they're on the heater.

But when we come to the summer, we're going to be having this conversation again. And I'm just curious, like, will Nashville even be able to get something from? Maybe do you try to trade a Skarov instead and try to trade the young goalie, like you said, with the ELC that isn't a cap hit? maybe you can get something really good for him. You can say, look, our team is better than we thought they were. They made the playoffs, whatever. Let's cash in on this young goalie that isn't a sure thing and get this team some more scoring help,

another great defenseman to help Soros win in this window we have with Soros. I think you could go either way. I'm very fascinated by a team with too much elite goaltending. You do not see it often. Oh, man. I cover the honor with senators for a living. So I don't know what this too much elite goaltending is that you speak of. I don't know how a team could have multiple goalies.

But the other Boston one I think of guys is when they had Thomas and Rask. Right. And they were both, you know, Thomas was at the peak there in 2011. And Rask was ready to, he was ready to go, right? He was like kind of, he was like, hey, I want to get the net there. So, boy, I, oh, man, I don't know that I would trade Ascarov, though, right? I think he's going to be an absolute. I mean, the kid, he is the most athletic prospect.

Like if you look at all the young goalies, he's the most athletic one. And usually athleticism comes with kind of a loose style of play. You're all over the place. You're not as controlled. He is the most under control of like he, the guy looks like his skates are anchored to the ice. He just, he's never in the wrong position. He explodes across, but he doesn't slide out of the blue paint.

He's just perfectly into position. I'm blown away by the way the way the guy moves. his athleticism. He's got the swagger. Like we saw him doing the pushups with the crossbar after winning the shootout in the HL. He like used the net as a pushup bar. The guy has everything. To me, he's, as certain as I've ever been about a young goalie that he's going to be great. I think he's going to be a stud. On the other end of the spectrum, you've got Jonathan Quick signing a one-year contract extension in New York. This to me is one of the unlikeliest things was Jonathan Quick becoming a really good goalie again. Like he was so,

much fun to watch, that kind of cobra style he had, he was always down on the ice and, you know, 12 and 14 when it went in the cups, he fell out the face of the earth and to resurface like this at whatever, 37, 38 years old, whatever he is, and be as good as he's been, how unlikely is that for a goalie at this stage of his career? I'm blown away by it because because of his style of play. Like, I think there are some goalies that play well into their late 30s, early 40s because their technique is so sound that and the older you get, the smarter you get, right? So you're reading the play a little bit better. So maybe you don't have to be quite as fast as you used to be because you're,

you're ahead of the play. But with Quick, I mean, the guy's technique is bad. Like, just flat out, he does not have good technique. Golly coaches watch him play and are like, oh my God, what is he doing? The thing is, he's so athletic. His hand-eye coordination and his reaction time are so incredible that his whole career, he's been able to overcome the, because the guy goes paddle down more than like, a five-year-old, if he was going to paddle down that often,

the goalie coach would lose his mind. And Jonathan Quick does it in the NHL. And it works. And like you said, he lost it. It looked like he lost it. And you said, well, I guess father time caught up. His reaction time is not good enough to overcome his technical deficiencies anymore. And then suddenly now it is.

It is good enough to do it because it's not like Jonathan Quick went to New York and figured the technique out and changed the way he's playing. No, he's doing the same thing he's done his whole career. He just, I don't know. He's a big. Rangers fan. He was pumped to put on the Ranger's sweater. I don't know how much of that is reinvigorated this guy, but it is, like you said, unlikely. I cannot believe it's happening. It's fun to watch, but it doesn't make any sense at all. That's goldending in general.

Fun to watch, but doesn't make any sense. Yeah, nobody, it's a, it's nobody can figure out that position. Hey, before we let you go, we asked Pierre LeBron about what the Vegas Golden Knights are going to do this week, and we figured, hey, listen, we've got the guy who covers the Golden Knights that are defending Stanley Cup champions. They obviously have Stanley Cup aspirations again. A little bit more money to play with that with Mark Stone out. So what do they do this week? I think they're for sure going to make some moves. I don't know if they're going to use the entire $10 million that they now have with Mark Stone expected to miss the rest of the regular season and potentially some of the playoffs. But I think they're going to use a lot of it. I think they need winger help. The Golden

Knights are strong up the middle. Like that's what anchored that cup run last year. The defense was very good. Aden Hill was good in goal, but to me it was Jack Eichel on the top center, Chandler Stevenson, William Carlson, Nicholas Waugh. There isn't a team in the league with maybe some teams can match their center depth, but no one has better centers than Vegas. I think on the wing is where they're weak. And that's with Mark Stone. So now you take out their best winger. This team really needs some help on the wing. They're not as deep as they were last year. So I, I mean, you go on the trade board. There are a ton of wingers available. Buccanevich in St. Louis is a big name. But I think Teresanko.

to me would be a very good fit. I think he does a lot of what Vegas needs. I think he obviously has a great shot, but he's strong and sturdy along the walls. Bruce Cassidy really emphasizes that. So I think there are a lot of options out there on the wing, and it just depends on which one fits their fancy. But I think they're going to trade for at least one,

maybe two of those guys before the deadline. Interesting. I wonder if you guys think, Jesse, do you think Ottawa and Vegas can make a trade again after the Dadanof stuff? or no. Yeah. I would love to be on that trade call where Kelly McCriman's like,

can we just really make sure there's no trade call here? Yeah. Just to be clear. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. Oh, man. Yeah.

I don't know if they could pull that off. We'll see. We'll see. Well, maybe Otto will say, okay, just give us that first rounder back. Just give us a first rounder back and we'll be good with it. All right. All right. Jesse.

we'll leave it there. And I guess, guys, this is where we wrap up the show. So this is going to be an interesting week, though. Like, I don't know if you, like, Lazz and I were talking to you guys like, do you guys like Trade Deadline Week as, as, as beat writers? I hate it.

I hate it. As a hockey fan, I love it. I love watching all the other teams and I love watching all the analysis, but you're, as a beat writer, I absolutely hate it. I'm waiting around knowing you're going to have a million things to write, but you have no idea what they are. You're just annoying people that don't want to be annoying that you know like 30 other people are annoying too it's i i hate this week yeah me too i i prefer

draft week uh oh yeah right because like i actually think in draft week there's a better shot for legitimate trades like real hockey trades happen at draft week not this this week is all rentals right and at least at the draft you at least for one more year you're seeing everybody you can have these conversations with people in person you can run into an agent on the street basically and, you know, just have a conversation and get some information that way. I hate just sending texts into the ether. It's my least favorite thing to do. Yeah, no, exactly.

All right. Well, anyway, it'll be an interesting week, and we look forward to the coverage. The next edition of The Athletic Hockey Show comes your way Wednesday. Frank Carrado is back. It's Frank Carrado between two Shons. That's what they've settled on the name, I guess, between two Shons. I got to figure out why Frank Corado blocked me on Twitter. We've got to get to the bottom of this.

Oh, man. I think we need to bring that up. You need to give that to Gentile and McIndoo and say, Frank Corrado blocked me. Like a lot of people blocked me on Twitter. I get it. I just want to know what specifically it was, you know. But how many people who are underneath the athletic umbrella have blocked you? That's the problem. Frank is now... I don't want to know the answer to that question. Oh, man. Anyway, okay, so that's the next edition of the athletic hockey show coming your way on Wednesday. day. Frank Carrotto is back with McAdoe and Jen Tilly. Want to remind you, get a one-year subscribe to the Athletic for $2 a month. Then you visit the athletic.com slash hockey show.