The Athletic Hockey Show - Connor Bedard, the NHL and the city of Nashville take center stage for the draft

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

The roundtable is on site in Nashville for the 2023 NHL draft. Rob Pizzo, Jesse Granger and Mike Russo welcome The Athletic's Scott Wheeler for a final primer on a deep 2023 first round led by Connor Bedard.Rob, Jesse and Mike look at a busy week for NHL transactions including trades involving Taylor Hall, Pierre Luc Dubois, Tyler Toffoli and Alex Newhook, the extension for Jordan Staal, the award voting controversy, plus rumors involving Erik Karlsson and Connor Hellebuyck who are projected to be moved before the start of free agency.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGo to grammarly.com/tone to download and learn more about Grammarly Premium’s advanced tone suggestionsNuts.com is offering new customers a free gift with purchase and free shipping on orders of $29 or more at Nuts.com/hockey23 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Stick around until the end of today's episode to hear the trailer for the Athletics next narrative podcast, the play callers, where Jordan Rodriguez will take you inside the dynamics of the NFL's youngest coaching family, the Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVeigh coaching tree. The entire series will be released on the Athletic Football Show feed on Monday, July 10th. This is The Athletic Hockey Show. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to The Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday round. Table draft edition. That's right. Doing the show on the day of the draft. Always a blast for

guys like me who are not in Nashville. A couple guys I know are in Nashville. Jesse Granger and Mike Russo. You know, I'm not there with all you guys having a good time covering this whole thing, which means I feel pretty good this morning. You guys look like you had a good time in the last couple of nights. Jesse. Jesse's got a huge coffee right now. Giant ice coffee. I wake up to a text from Rob saying, hey, we can do the podcast earlier if you guys want. I'm like, now, Rob's clearly not in Nashville because no one here is asking to do anything earlier in the morning. What is wrong?

When we set up a time to do a podcast, people will throw out, you know, we have a chat group and Russo's like, well, I got to do this, I got to do that. I said, well, if you want to go earlier, that's fine by me. And then right away, I just get late night. We're keeping the exact same time. Russo, how are you, buddy? I'm actually doing quite well today. I did not close down Tutsis last night, like the entire athletic staff.

But so I'm actually not nearly as bad off as these guys and our producer Jeff Domett over there. And that's why Jeff Domets behind the camera. He's just like, I don't want anyone to see me. But it is draft day, guys. And yes, I'm feeling good. And I'll drag you guys through this show kicking and screaming. But we need help. We've talked about this before, guys.

this is the one day of the year, the one area of hockey where we always enlist the help of others. I don't know about you guys. I don't watch a whole ton of major junior hockey on a regular basis or NCAA hockey or at least enough to say this guy should go higher than that guy. So we always enlist the help of someone who does a lot of that. And today, of course, we're going to welcome one of the athletics draft guru, Scott Wheeler, to the show. How are you, Scott?

I am, as we were sort of alluding to before we hop home, I'm hurting this morning. This was, last night was a little tough on me, but we're rallying. And we've got the main event tonight. This is my Super Bowl, my Stanley Cup, whatever you want to call it. This is a big one for me. So I'm looking forward to it. And this is a, I truly believe this is a special class. So we've got that to look forward to in terms of breaking it down over the next few years.

Okay, but let me quickly ask you this before we actually get into the class and the players and the bedards and everything else. Is this a 365 job for you? I mean, I can't imagine trying to keep up with that many players. And we're talking about players. The coverage has got to be even difficult to keep up with and the stats and watching these players. How do you do this job? Well, I think the simple answer is that there's a reason that scouting for an NHL club

is a very much a regional job, right? There's a reason that they have scouting departments of 10 to 15 people. and that it's broken down into segments. It's hard. It's tomorrow there will be, by the end of tomorrow, there will be 224 picks. I will probably be familiar with a little under 200.

That's just kind of the way that it works. There are always 20 to 30 guys that. I'll be familiar with two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Connor Bedard and Adam Fantilly. Yeah, yeah. Well, no, it's, it's a, yeah, it's around, around the clock. In terms of 365, it's absolutely true.

Everybody at the Athletic likes to talk about the time off that they get in August. And I always think, well, the Hilingkogretzky Cup is in August. And I've got two weeks of August hockey I have to watch. And there's the World Junior Summer showcases at the end of July and early August. Like there's no, the prospect calendar, there's no break. It truly is, even in July and August, it picks right back up. And I'm going to be turning the page. Once this is all done, I'm going to be turning the page to Macklin Celebrini in 2024.

It is really crazy. And last year, you actually had the world juniors in August. I did Edmonton three times, three times in a 12-month span. I think I spent five weeks in Edmonton in a 12-month span. And it is really interesting because, like, when I was a newspaper beat reporter as a beat writer, like maybe Jesse is very different than me, but now it's still at the athletic. But like, you had to really study up on the draft as the beat guy. But at the athletic, we, like it's part of our crutch.

Like I said to Joe Smith the other day, I know nothing about this draft because we just, we rely so much on you and Corey on just promoting your stuff and like and that's our like our easy out to our readers like just read Scott Wheeler and Corey From and we don't have to have no idea who the wilder are taking at 21 um 20 years ago I was in Nashville for the 2003 draft and even then people knew it was going to be special but I don't think anybody knew how special it's going to be I mean you have flower at the top and you have Eric Stahl and then even out of the not only just like the Zach Peresey Ryan Souter Jeff Carter Mike Richards Corey Perry Perry and I want to say Praman,

I guess left, but you got, you know, Berseran and Bufflin and Shea Weber and Pavelski and Erickson. I mean, it was just absolutely bonkers that draft. This draft here, we always hear how top heavy it is going to be,

but the depth is there as well. 2015 was incredible. Like where would you think that 2015 was the Erickson Act draft, right? Yes. Yes. Like, where do you, like,

where do you think that 20 years from now, we're going to look back at this national draft? I think it'll, It's not going to be 2003 or 2015, but I think it's going to be sort of in that next cut, that next Eschon, there. 2015 is an interesting one because it was the McDavid draft, of course, and it was the Jack Eichael draft. I take it as the Erickson Act draft. Yeah, and that's exactly what it was, though. When you said that, I'm like, what are you talking?

No, but in hindsight, though, in hindsight, it was Thomas Shabbat, Brock Besser, Sebastian. Sebastian Ajo was a second round pick. Travis Keneckney, go down the list, Matt Barzel, Miko Ranton in. That's the story of, for me, that's the story of 2015. As much as it's McDavid, it's the depth and the quality of star players that were sort of available deep into the draft. I think this has a similar feel to that. You've got the top five.

The top five are the top five. They are legit sort of star level talents. I would have taken all of them over your Islavkovsky and Shane Wright, etc. Last year. So you've got this sort of really top-heavy. feel to it. But it's going to be at Forward in particular, this is a special group out of the WHL. We've been hearing about

this Western Canada group for five, six years since they were 13 years old. This was expected to be a special group out of the WHL. It's a really good group out of Sweden. And at Forward, it's, this is, you're going to see, to the wild, in the 20s and

you're going to see star players taken in that range. And that's not something I'm typically comfortable saying out loud the day of the draft, right? Like, That's unique. It's a little bit weaker on defense. There have been four or five kids that have kind of emerged as this season has progressed. A year ago this time, the expectation was that there wasn't going to be a defenseman taken in the top 10.

Now you might have one or two taken in the top 10 tonight. But at forward, you're going to see not just Will Smith and Matt Bechkov and Connor Bedard and Adam Fantillion and Wheel Carlson. Pass those five guys, you're still going to see, I think, four or five like legit front line, first line players taken out of this. draft class in the long term. Scott, we were kind of comparing it to the 2015 draft, and like, obviously, McDavid and Bedard, those comparisons have been made for what feels like two, three years now. Covering the Golden Knights, I think of Jack Eichel covering that draft.

Like, is there a second guy that's the clear, like, is it Fantilli? Is he the clear second guy? Or like you mentioned, those five forwards, they're all really good, those top five guys. Could there be an argument for someone other than Fantilli that's the second guy behind Badard and just like how confident are you in those rankings of those guys because of those are like the studs of this draft? I think if it were not for the geopolitical situation between Russia and Ukraine right now and Matt Beemichikov's contract and everything that all of the extenuating circumstances,

the fact that he hasn't interviewed with clubs, the fact that literally a handful of NHL scouts saw Matt Vaymichikov play live this season. That's how small the number was. If it were not for all that, if he were playing in a typical schedule, if he were If he were in, we were talking about Edmonton, if he were in Edmonton, if he were in Halifax for the world juniors, if he was even in Switzerland for U18 worlds, we would likely be having a conversation about Matt Veemichkov ahead of Adam Van Tilly. Like I truly believe that's where most NHL scouts would land. I did a survey in advance of this draft and they all told me if this, if all else broke equal, Matt Veemichkov would be the number two guy in this draft. So I think that's, that's really the story of day one.

that's going to be the story of today's. Where does he land? That is the biggest domino of this draft. We saw some movement yesterday with Tyler Tofoli and some trades and we got some news that way. But the story of today is Michikov. And I don't think any of the top four teams are going to take him. I think there's an outside chance that San Jose gets to that point. I will be fascinated to learn in the days after this, whether San Jose enjoyed their conversation with him. Mike Greer was kind of coy about it saying, we've spoken with all of the Russians that we wanted to speak to. No, I know for a fact that they met with Matt Maymichikov, and I think if he does go in that top four,

San Jose at four is the one team that I think would consider it. They've got a track record in recent, really in the last two years of bringing over Russian players. They need to swing big. They need to start talent. But if it's not, it feels to me like if it's not San Jose at four, then suddenly you're into Philadelphia at seven and Washington at eight

because Montreal, I don't think, is prepared to take him. I don't think they're comfortable taking him at 5. And Arizona, being Arizona, being the circumstances that they're in with the uncertainty around the club, and the fact that whichever team takes, Matt Van Mechikov is going to have to earn him over here in terms of just, there's a sales pitch that has to happen both ways with him that doesn't typically have to happen with other players. It's not going to be Montreal at 5 and it's not going to be Arizona at 6. So if it's funny because I figured Arizona because of their time and that they, hey, who cares if he comes in three years, 10 years,

that they might make sense. But you're saying no. No, I truly believe that they are not comfortable with that. And with the risk associated with where they're going to be three years from now, what that's going to look like in terms of bringing a player over to potentially to a new city or to, I mean, who knows if they'll be in Arizona three years from now. Salt Lake City is beautiful. We take a draft in Salt Lake City.

No, that's, I think Philadelphia at 7 is where things could really, really get interesting because Danny and that group, I think they're open to it. I think, I don't think they're going to dismiss it like some teams are in terms of the waiting game. Danny, I mean, that, that, even Keith, they've been upfront about this is going to, finally, this is going to be a full commitment to a proper sort of re-they've even used the word rebuild, which we almost never hear general managers use. So I think Philly at 7 and, and obviously, Washington, there's, there's natural, I feel like almost lazy connections there with, with Alex and the Russian connections.

They took Miros Dchenko last year, and they've been down that road. That's fascinating, though, that, like, we're talking seven picks into the draft. Could be the second best guy in a draft class that is this stacked like that. I think he could be a hundred point player. And I've said that. Wow. I've been doing this for 10 years. I've probably said that about five prospects.

Like, he's a better, at this age, a better prospect than certainly Nikohicier, Aaron Ekblad, all sorts of first overall picks in recent drafts. You're Islafkowski. You're talking after Connor Bedard, Austin Matthews, even Jack Hughes. Like, I'm not convinced Matt Vaymichikov is a worse talent at this age than Jack Hughes was a few years ago. So it's a, we're talking about a legit first line star player.

Rob, I know you're there, but we're like forgetting the Rob's not with it. Remember me, guys. Just because I'm over here, doesn't mean I don't want to get out on the conversation. The reason why when he said, he's sure I laughed is because, because I'm staring at this Vanderbilt Marriott over there and the first time I ever sat down with Nico Heistair and Nolan Patrick and Casey Milston. I think he's Iskinan.

He was in that draft. It was at the 2017 Stanley Cup final right there. They sat me down with like all these top prospects. Yeah, yeah. Sure was one of them. All right, there you go. Sorry, Rob. Appreciate it.

Russo, nice pass for me in front of the net here. Along the lines of Fantilli, Scott, you know, we had them on the show. And I will never forget, we finished the interview. And myself and Russo and Jesse said, Wow. Yeah. Just personality-wise, just a good kid, just, you know, good-looking kids, sellable kid, great personality.

And you touched on something there with interviewing the players, you know, general managers have that crazy interview they do before the draft or they ask them some of the stupidest questions you'll ever hear in your life, but there's obviously a reason behind it. In your job, how much do you talk to these GMs and hear about a player that maybe will move up or down because of, of what they get in that interviewer or what they're hearing. Because for guys like us, I look at stats, I look at some highlights, and I read your stuff.

But there's a lot more that comes to where a player might go than just that. If they don't impress in that meeting, they can find themselves moving down a few spots. Yeah, there's always a few kids that strike you. And I speak with 30, 40, 50 of these kids over the course of the draft year, the process right through till the Combine, U18 worlds, the fall five nations, all those. that. And there's always three or four, and I think it's the same thing with the combine, right? You get every team ends up sort of interviewing 50 or 60 kids, and there's always three or four that stick. And as whether rightly or wrongly, those things do matter. The Montreal

Canadians last year picked Vincent's Rower in the third round, specifically because he blew them away in the combine sort of process. And they were like, wow, this kid is, is unique. I know that the Pittsburgh Penguins and Brian Burke before they, before Burke and company were laid off, the Pittsburgh Penguins picked Owen Pickering last year because Owen Pickering was the most impressive kid in part because Owen Pickering was the most impressive kid in that process. I've been a victim of that in the past. I was really high on Cole Perfetti and Marco Rossi and a few kids that have come through the draft in recent years who had really impressed me over sort of getting to know them.

Weill Carlson is a kid this year that I have a bit of a soft spot for that way as well. You can just tell he's a sweet, genuine sort of salt of the earth kid. And that's pretty, I hate to say it, but pretty rare in hockey in terms of where some of these kids come from and the process and how a lot of that gets sapped out of them. So that's a piece of it. Adam, I mean, you guys saw it. Adam's a really, really compelling, interesting character. He's also very much himself. You can tell that when you speak to him.

It's not, he's not talking to you like someone who's been coached to talk to you. So that piece of it is, I think it matters. That doesn't go away because, you know, a lot of times when they come in the league, that slowly fades away, right? Well, and we were talking about Jack Hughes moments ago, and that's the all-time draft for me in terms of the kids. And I think those kids are going to lead a bit of a change here. Like, we've seen it with Trevor's egress. We've seen it with Jack Hughes. That age group, Cole Cawfield, those kids were interesting.

And I think they owned that they were interesting and that they were, they had personality and life. and you could sort of see this light in their eyes when you talk to them. And that hasn't for a long time been the case with a lot of these kids as they've come through. It's always been sort of tricky to pull that out of it. It's been a game of chess for people like Mike who've been doing this for a long, long time, just trying to find what's in there. And they are, these people are more interesting than they let on. You get them in certain settings and they are, there's characters in there.

And there's sort of that new. nuance that is extremely hard for us to sort of find and tap into in them. And you're absolutely right. Adam is, Adam's a really good, interesting kid that way. I got to know him through this process and did a big feature on him. And he was, he was on my flight into town from Toronto and him and his family and his brother, Luca, and like, you can just tell that they're, they're impressive that way. And I think that will, push comes to shove. Maybe that's the deciding factor for the Anaheim Ducks at number two, that he's, he's an impressive kid. I like that Will Smith kid too.

I talked to him at the Stanley Cup final and he's bubbling with personality. You know, you get this question all the time from fans. You know, I think you see a lot of other sports where it's just, I don't know if easy is the right term, but it just feels like it's easy to jump to the top of the draft. Like, oh, we're going to give this, this, a move into the two, three, four. That rarely, if ever happens in the National Hockey League. You know, why is that? Why is it so difficult to, you know, you have teams that,

You could trade two seconds and get that extra first and draft Corey Perry and hit that diamond in the rough and get Gatslap and Perry in the same draft. But very rarely are you able to package your things together to catapult from 25 up to five? Why is that in the National League? Yeah, it's a fascinating dichotomy with our readers too because they all think it's easy. I do Q&As and mailbags and all of that and 50% of the questions about the players and 50% of the questions are, tell me about whether my team could potentially trade up or down here and specifically with the top picks. I think part of it is that it's a Wikipedia bio thing. Like if you trade that pick, whether it's the right move or not at the time, whether you've calculated the risks at the time or not, if you trade that pick and that player becomes a star player for another organization, if you're a general manager, that's on your Wikipedia bio.

That's on your tombstone, right? And so I think I think that is part, that is very much part of it. These guys will all tell you, we're going to make the best decision for our club, et cetera, et cetera. But I think there's a lot of subconscious to that of, if this goes south, it's a, it's a game-breaking career-making. It's a punchline for me for the rest of my career. And nobody wants it to be the wrong, the wrong guy or whether it's trading out or trading in

and you take the wrong guy and you move up and take the wrong guy. we all remember you're right. I was just, are you, the one I was going to throw you, it doesn't have to be the first round. Remember when the, the Wild moved back, one spot, gave it to Tampa and they took Braden Point. Yeah. And the wild took Louis Belpedia.

And on the flip side, one spot. On the flip side, remember the, that yes, he Pooley-RVee. Yeah. Right. Everybody said that yes, he had to be the third overall pick. And in hindsight, Pierre-Luc Dubois, that was a, that was a ballsy move by Yarmot. And in, in hindsight, very much the right move by Yarmot.

And so it can go both ways. You have to sort of put your cards on the table and own whatever decision you're going to make. I think Montreal is in an interesting spot this year that way where I don't think Ken Hughes is prepared to take Matt Veemichkov. And he is prepared if Matt Veemichikov becomes the 100 point guy in this draft class other than Baddard. I think he's prepared to live with that.

And that takes guts. And there are general managers who are on the hot seat and general managers who are early in their process like a Danny Breyer or like Ken Hughes. I think those guys feel like they've got the wherewithal where if I make a mistake, it's not the end of me. But there are general managers who feel like I can't afford to make that sort of massive error. And that will live with me and haunt me if I do. So I just think that's part of it. Even if the prices are aligned, even if there's a huge deal on the table for a top five pick, it's still so difficult to pull that trigger because if you if you screw it up it's it's never going away yeah Pooley rV is not getting

an eight year eight and a half million dollar deal and you're on next season definitely no he's playing there as opposed to uh as opposed to uh but that that was a mouth on the floor like that was a jaw-dropping decision i remember yeah we're when wheeler went five like wheeler five right to uh Arizona yeah everybody was like what the heck turned out to be a pretty good pro yeah this this draft is obviously we've been talking about how strong it is. What team do you think based on their picks or maybe just the location of their picks kind of, is there a team you think has the most to gain today and tomorrow? I think this is a very big 24 hours for the Red Wings. They feel to me, they pushed last year

to be better. I think they pushed a year, maybe a year early in terms of their process, signing Andrew Kopp, sort of going that route to try to sort of claw back into the playoff picture. My understanding is that a big part of that is that they needed bums and seats in Detroit in a way that they haven't in the past and that there was financial implications of we need to be a more competitive team here because it's been pretty empty there for the last couple of years and all of that. But at nine, they've got nine and 17 and there's been talk about Alex de Brinket, and we saw yesterday, Tyler Toffoli got moved and Sharon Govich got moved and every, Pierre Louvre, et cetera. All of those guys I was thinking in the back of my head, Detroit

needs a player like that. Like Detroit needs another, Dylan Larkin is not enough in terms of, at least up front. We know that Moritzider is legit and Simon Edvinson, who's coming is legit. Detroit needs, if they want to move this process along,

and Stevie's been there a long time now. That plan that he laid out and that vision that he laid out, I think the fan base has obviously backed him and the Izer plan and, et cetera, but I think everybody has an expiration date. And I do think there is, there will begin to be. the pressure that builds for the Red Wings over the next couple of years if they aren't in

the hunt. And we know what the Eastern Conference looks like. We know what the Atlantic Division looks like. They need to move the needle here over the next year or two. And at 9 and 17, you can sit tight and take a player there. I think they would be prudent to swing on skill. They've gone after last year they drafted Marco Casper in the top 10. He was like a the classic. We're going to draft the projectable middle six player who's going to be a good player in the NHL. I think that approach, which they've taken and taken consistently of, we're going to draft projectable NHL guys, it serves a purpose until you're a team that doesn't have star players. So I think at 9 and 17, it's incumbent on them if they sit there and if they

don't move one for, if they don't move one for Alex to Brinket or whatever today, I think it's incumbent on them to swing on some, to take a chance, take a cut on one of these forwards and try to add someone who can add to Lucas Raymond and Dylan Mark and be another impact guy offensively because it feels like that's truly what they're missing. And without, I mean, we know it now. The St. Louis Blues got there with O'Reilly and with Patrangelo. They were probably the only Stanley Cup winning team in the last 10 years that didn't have a true, up front, didn't have a true, true, true star forward. I mean, certainly Vegas was a little bit like that. I think Jack is not what Jack was and maybe he'll get back there. But they need, Detroit needs a true talent. And

as great as Dylan Larkin and those guys are, they're missing that. So I think today is a very big day for them with 9 and 17 to try to find a guy. Maybe it'll be to Brinkett. And maybe it'll be, maybe that's the play. Maybe it's using those picks as as capital to to find an Alex to Brinket. Hey, Rob. Scott, I can't believe we've gone almost 24 minutes into the end of this chat before actually asking about this guy, Connor Bedard. I don't know if you heard of him going on this. He's right up there as in my lifetime. The whole Baird thing.

No, but here, hang on a second. He's right up there with Mario. He's right up there with Crosby. He's right up there with, you know, Lindrosse. When I'm thinking the overwhelming blue chip prospects at number one, we've heard how great he is. Give me a couple of concerns. Give me a couple of things that you've heard that concern GM scouts anyone about

Connor Bard. I've heard he's the next Yakubov. He's not the next Yakubov. No, I think the only question, I've said this repeatedly, I honest to God think he's going to be a star, potential superstar level talent. I think he could score 50 goals. I think he could touch 100 points.

He's not going to do that. I think we all expect that he's not going to do that in Chicago. That Chicago team, even after adding Taylor Hall and Nick Folino, and I'm sure they're going to continue to try to add guys, not to move along that process, but just so he has people to play with. We all saw what that roster looked like last year. It was Tyler Johnson and Andreas Santa Thanesi.

It wasn't built to score or to produce offense. I think that's a situation this year with him where he could, he could score 50 points and be the leading scorer on that team. It would have been much different for him if he'd gone to Columbus and he got to play with Johnny Gujarro or if he went to Anaheim and he got to play with Trevor Zegris. There were outcomes for him in terms of sealing for his Calder season that were much higher than Chicago. Chicago, in terms of leveling the expectations was maybe it'll be good for him

because maybe he doesn't go and light it up and the expectations are reset a little bit. But in terms of question marks, the only question mark for me is, is he a winger or is he a center? I think that at this point, he's either going to be a first-line winger or he's going to be a first-line center. I don't think there's expectations or question marks in terms of being less than that, which is a crazy thing to say about a 17-year-old kid, especially him. People forget he's born in July. Like he's one of the youngest players at the top of this draft. So he's going to be entering this next season, barely 18 years old.

But in terms of the skill, the talent, the playmaking, the competitiveness, he's added a chip on his shoulder over the last couple of years, has really become a feisty kid after the whistle. He's in scrums and sort of doing things that surprise you that way where he started to run his mouth this year. And I think he wanted to show teams, even though I'm 59.75, which is what he measured in it, the combine. And he wanted to show teams this year that he was a competitor and that he was going to fight and battle. And he'd cross-check you after the whistle. And I think he felt that he needed to show that. And that was a question mark of can he be a center in terms of the competitiveness piece, the physicality that comes with playing that position.

But that is really, I think the only thing that the Chicago Blackhawks have to find out next year is what position do we want him at long term. And then they need to commit to that. We've seen it. Tim Stutzlow started on the wing. then ended up at center, but I think by and large, you need to make that decision pretty early for the player. And so he knows what the expectations are. And so, yeah, that's it. It's just center or wing. I think he ends up at center, which is saying something about how many five foot nine, seven, five first line centers are there in the league, right? Like, it's a pretty small,

pretty small group, but he's a pretty special player. So I do think he likes it. He wants to be in the fight. You want the puck in his hands as much as you can have the puck in his hands. And it will probably land at center, but that is the quite literally the only question that I have about him. There's nothing in his game that I think worries people. Even this year, he started to playmake a little bit more. There was a time

when he would tunnel vision, right? He was looking for that shot of his all the time. And he was shooting into shin pads and he was sort of fighting it offensively at times where he was trying to force the issue a little bit too much. This year, I think he learned to use that shot as a weapon for his playmaking game so that

he could, if they're going to try to block every shot that I take, I can, I can use that as an option to open up things for other people. So, uh, they're, they're really, and it's a, it's a bold thing, but there are, there aren't many question marks there. Yeah. I love how you said, we're surprised at how young he is. That's because you get exceptional status at 14. We've been hearing about Connor Bedard for what seems like forever. So yeah, it is a bit surprising. Scott, thanks so much for doing this for battling through your hangover with your fellow, uh, athletic writers there myself as well. Go get some Advil and

gear up for tonight. Admit that you and Promen do 20 mock drafts each just so on draft day you could say that you were right. I had... Not to throw Corey on the bus, but I am much less eager on the mock draft train. I think I did two mock drafts myself this year. But it's, I mean, if people keep reading them,

we'll keep doing them. You're not big on comparables either, right? I know you don't like the comparables. I don't love the comparables. I think it's a lazy thing that does the players a disservice. And in almost every situation puts expectations on these kids that are too high. But the reason we ask for comparables is how we started this interview. We don't know who these players are a lot of times.

And we just want to know, who is this guy? What is he, you know, what player does he remind you of? That's the reason I always want to know what comparables. But I didn't ask you in this interview for a reason. You get that. The comparables are useful for the average fan because they give them. a mental image of stylistically what that kid could look like. I think the challenge there is that every first round pick gets some NHL All-Star, and that's just...

Yeah. I remember when the Panthers, actually, it's funny because I ran into Stu Barnes last night, but when the Panthers traded for Chris Wells, and God rest his soul, Brian Murray said that he was going to be the next Doug Waite. Yeah. He was done from that moment on it. Because now that's what we're envisioning. And we never accepted Chris Wells for what he was.

And he just flamed out, you know. There's also a lot of that, like, the physical guys, the next Tom Wilson. Yeah, yeah. For a long time, it was Milon Lute. Everybody was drafting the next Milan Luchich, or the speedy winger was going to be Jeff Carter, right? Like there was a little bit of that happening for a long, long time where we would just hear the same five archetypes over and over and over again.

So, yeah, I do think it's a little bit of a dangerous game, the comparables, but I totally understand why readers and our audience craves, craves that kind of stuff. Yeah, makes sense. Scott, enjoy your Super Bowl slash Christmas slash New Year's Eve tonight. You've been working all year for it. Enjoy it. Thanks for doing this.

Really appreciate it. Cheers, guys. Scott Wheeler, be sure to follow him and keep reading up on all his stuff. And you'll start gearing up for next year after tonight. And we are going to talk some trades after the break. So don't go anywhere. All right, boys, and news that should surprise. absolutely no one. We've seen some pretty big names getting moved. It always happens come

draft time and I don't think it will be the last. Well, let's go through some of these. I want your opinions on them. Obviously, the one that caught a lot of people's attention, Pierre-Luc Dubois, who said he wanted out of Winnipeg, wasn't going to resign. Well, got his wish. He did sign. Eight years, 68 million bucks, but then Dubois and that contract were shipped to L.A., he's now a king, going the other way, Rasmus Kapari, Alex Ayafalo, and Gabriel Valardi, your thoughts on this deal, Russo. We will begin with you. I mean, I think that Winnipeg did the best it could, and I'm going to be really interested to see what happens the rest of the draft here. It surely sounds like Blake Willer's going to be bought out. Obviously, I think Helibuck is going to be traded potentially to Jersey,

but I think there's some, you know, we-shifely too, right? Yeah, and we've discussed with Jesse, you know, really what, or the cost. You want to pay goalies these days. And I think that is one of the biggest conflicts going on right now behind the scenes in his jersey is how much are you willing to pay Connor Heldbuck? I think a lot of the analytics folks in that organization aren't keen on paying a goalie, $8.5, $9 million. And then as you mentioned, Rob Sheifley, I'll be honest. I am not the biggest peer-loch block fan. I am not.

And I think eight times eight, eight and whatever it was for him is, is, is, is pretty hefty, but man, is L.A. loading up. And they're up the middle right now, Jesse. They are as good as there is in the league. Yeah, I mean, Copaard to know and Pierre-Luc DuBah, that's incredible. And where's Byfield step into this? Yeah, that's really interesting. But to me, like, I agree with you on, like, not a big fan of Pierre-Luc de Bois. Like, I think he's a good player. I think he's very talented, but he's never scored 30 goals in his career. I think his career high for points is like 63. So if you're going to pay him almost $9 million a year, he's going to have to exceed those

numbers by quite a bit to reach that level of impact that you're expecting out of a player that makes that much money. And then the other thing I wonder is, like you mentioned Winnipeg did as well as they could. I think they got a good bushel of players back. And to me, when I... It's already healthy. That I think that's always a big thing. When I looked at L.A. last year, I think...

thought what made that team so good when it was at its best was just the depth. Like the one through 12 forward. So it's, they lose some of that depth. They still don't have a goalie. And they, they paid Rupéry Lou Pia de Beaua a lot of money. So I think if Dubois reaches his ceiling and then he's a, he's a 70, 80, 90 point guy, then okay, great. But he hasn't done that yet. And he's played with really talented players. It's not like he's coming from some team where he's a, he's a 70, They couldn't score. So it's going to be interesting. I'm skeptical of the move for L.A.

Yeah. Yeah, it's rule number one, right? If you want out, be demanding a trade, not going to resign, whatever, don't let it go public because then we're not going to get back proper return. And I think Kevin Schiav got back a pretty damn good return for a guy who it was very well known that he wasn't going to stick around. Speaking of that, Tyler DeFoli wanted out of Calgary, he also got his wish. He is now a New Jersey devil for how long we don't know because he's got one year left. Do they sign him to an extension? Do they use this year to court him on New Jersey, which is a weird sentence, I will admit.

Yeager Sharon Govich going the other way in a third round pick. Jesse, we'll start with you on this one. I mean, Sharon Govich is a good player. And I like Toffoli. Obviously, he's a scorer. He's kind of streaky, but when he's on, he's a really good score. So to me, it's another one of those ones where I can see both sides. Like the devils are adding a really good player.

And the flames got a good return for a guy that most people, we thought that they were going to move him eventually. So I think both GMs could argue they did well in this one. I agree with you. But can we just rave about the job that Tom Fitzgerald does all the time? I mean, this guy, he's bold. He makes smart decisions. you know, again, if he can get Meyer done, I think that'd be absolutely massive. They've drafted exceptionally well.

It just seems like what they've done in New Jersey. They're really building something special there. And they obviously, you know, they have a big win against the Rangers during the playoffs. You know, started to dry up, obviously, against Carolina. But I think that the future of this team is so, so competent right now. And if they can get that goalie now, without giving up a ton of assets and paying way, way too much money. I just think that they're really setting themselves up to be a really special team for a long time. With all the playmakers they have, Topholi, like, he's a finisher, right? Like, he, like, I feel like

he fits well with what they've already got. They've got a lot of guys that can control the puck, can our playmakers can pass it. And Topholi, like I said, when he's, when he's on one of his hot streaks, that's a guy that puts the puck in the net regularly. So I think, stylistic-wise, I think he should be a good fit there. It was no secret that the Habs were in on the Pierre-Luc de Bois. Stakes, couldn't get them. So they pivoted and make a deal with Colorado to get Alex New Hook. Two picks going the other way.

First round pick in 2023 and a second round pick in 2023 as well. Interested to see what Montreal does here. I think this is one of those years where if they do turn this corner with this rebuild, we'll look back at 2023 and say this is kind of where it all started. Your thoughts on this one, Rousseau? Yeah, actually, start with Jesse there. So I will gladly start. To me, Alex Newhook, like I remember, again, we just talked about how we're not prospect experts,

but I remember being pretty high on him when it came out. Like I think I had mocked him to the Golden Knights and I think he went one pick before the Golden Knights picked. And I just remember really liking a lot about him. He hasn't been that player in Colorado. And I think, I mean, he plays like, what, 12 minutes a night there? Like he's not getting the opportunity. Maybe on a team that's obviously not as talented as the abs,

he can get a more prominent spot in the lineup. And maybe that offense comes out. But to this point, he hasn't been the player that people thought he could be. And that's kind of what I wanted you to say that first before I made a fool out of myself. Because, you know, like Rob, I cover a lot of these games against Colorado.

And I'm telling you, like, he just doesn't jump out to me every time I watch him. But, you know, it's hard in that system. You know, for a while he's behind, And obviously McKinnon and then Cadre and this year, Comfort was just so good. And he just, you get trapped behind there. But I have really grown to respect the way that Jared Bednar recognizes the players that he should move up in the lineup. And usually if a guy deserves it, he gets moved up in the lineup.

And we just haven't seen that yet with New Hook. But he's extremely young. He's 21 years old. He came out of that whole BC crew of just incredible players. But the one thing that, like, I don't know. trust me, he's not going to be this, but I remember like all, all these people saying that, like, you know, Bednar is not giving Tyson Joost a chance, Tyson Joseph. I think that Bednar just recognized that Tyson, this is Tyson Joost as a player. And so I'm a little skeptical,

the fact that that New Hook never got moved up and whether or not he's going to be that player. But the talent is when he was in college is there. And you put him now in a young situation in Montreal that is clearly a team on the rise. They're going to surround them by really, really good young players. And obviously Suzuki's getting up there a little bit. but he's still a very young captain. And you have, you know, Caulfield and some of these great, you know, the Slovak kid that they took the last year, like I actually think it's a really good fit for him. What I hope is that Montreal fans are just patient and let him grow with that process there.

And if that team could grow together, I think they are going to be really good. But I'm just right now skeptical on just what I've seen from New Hook, but I'm not saying that I think he's going to be a bust or anything like that yet. So the Blackhawks obviously one of the talks of the draft. they have the number one overall pick. And also kind of stole the spotlight with a big deal a couple of days ago. Taylor Hall, Nick Folino are now Chicago Blackhawks pulling off that deal with the Boston Bruins, Ox Rulah and Ian Mitchell going the other way.

This one was one of those ones that kind of made me raise my eyebrows. Were you guys surprised at this deal at all? And we're going to start with you on this one, Russo. I actually was, but you know, in hindsight, obviously they had to add $10 million worth of players just to get to the cap ceiling. Excuse me, four. You know, Hall, you put him, that was the one thing that Wheeler said that I disagreed with a little bit is now that Hall's there. I actually think Bedard, they're going to elevate each other points-wise.

You know, I don't think that Connor Bedard now, like four days ago, Bedard might have been the guy that led them when scoring for 50, but I got to think he's going to get more than that now if Hall's healthy. And I do think that they're going to help each other. You know, the Felino one, man, what a lifeline. for Nick Felino. They essentially acquire him. It looks, look,

and I love Nick Falino, but it looked like his career was like, kaput. And then they're like, oh, and here's $4 million just so we can get to the caps floor.

You know, but a young team, a great guy, more importantly, a great quote. Most important. Yeah, most importantly.

But, you know, like, you put an influence like that in that locker room, and I just think it's the right guy. Like, that's what they need.

So I actually, I love the trade for Chicago and I love the signal that it's telling the fans that we're not, like, we're getting badarded here. But now we're going to begin the process of trying to build this team into a winner rather than five years of rebuilding. And I do think it's a good message. Yeah. So initially I was shocked because it's like this team is not in win now mode. These seem like almost deals to like put you over the top to try to win. And that's clearly not the position they're in. But Scott brought it up and I totally agree.

this is about developing Connor Bedard in the best way. Mentorship, like a mentorship sort of situation, right? In terms of giving him leaders that he can look up to and we'll see how they handle themselves and do all that. But also on the ice, like he needs some good players so that he can play well and be confident.

And you're not just expected to do everything out there. I think adding some, especially Taylor Hall, talented, talented offensive player that is going to, like you say, he's going to have points. He's going to make,

Baird's life a little easier out there. And I think for all those reasons, like to me, this isn't, maybe it's a little bit of the rebuild, but to me it's more just, let's make sure things go well for Conrad. Let's put him in a situation.

We're probably not going to win a lot of games, but he can score goals and he can play well. Let's set him up for success to build confidence right off the bat and just get him going. So, yeah, I think I like it a lot for Chicago. Yeah, that's always tough. Even for the surefire number one picks we've talked about, I mean, the Marios of the world,

the Crosby's of the world, you know, you're always, almost always going to be on a really shitty team. And you have to get, you know, you're not going to win in year number one. So there's got to be a way to keep that confidence up and just being with a guy like Taylor Hall, I think certainly helps. One more guys before we go to break because it happened today, Colorado and Tampa Bay pulling off a deal. Ross Colton, now a Colorado avalanche going the other way. a second round pick in this year's draft. Jesse?

I mean, so we were kind of wondering what Colorado was like, okay, they traded New Hook. That caught us a little bit by surprise. I think Colton, he's, again, he's an offense first guy, which I think they could use. Like, it sounds weird saying the abs need offense, but like they, they, I think, I think it's a good injection of skill to that lineup. And I wonder, Comfer is RFA, UFA? Yeah, and it looks like he's going to market. Yeah, I wonder, yeah, I wonder if that kind of...

I think he won't five and a half. Yeah, well, that would explain it. Yeah, I wonder if this kind of signals that that's for sure happening, like Comfer and them are done. Yeah, that's what I heard last night that that was happening, which maybe is why this trade, you know, now it makes more sense when you put it in. They make the Johansson trade at half price the other day. Great trade to sort of, you know, take a flyer on a guy to see if he can absolutely

fill that role that was missing last year with the loss of cadre. It was really good. and you add Colton there. So they're loading up. And for Tampa, they get much needed cap space on a team that was extremely capped out. And they get to finally draft tomorrow, right? I mean,

this team had no picks and now they at least get a second rounder. And they were looking for a high pick for them. You know, Ross Cotton is a good player. As Jesse said, he could play higher in the lineup, but he plays a hard-nosed brand of hockey. I mean, this is somebody that grew up in New Jersey

and idolize Zach Perisi and Ryan Carter. So you know that his like, M.O. as a player is somebody that wants to play a hard, hardworking game. I think that he'll fit in perfectly in Colorado. Chris McFarland, Rob, has done really well in the last couple days. I mean, you know, like getting Johansson for free at half price, I'm getting some picks for a new hook and now adding this. Colorado, I think, is a team that obviously with Atlantis Gog is going to get back on the map last next year. And I think that they, you know, got a little bit of a wake-up call with their loss to Seattle. And now they're trying to just say, hey, we're not going to get complacent here. Yeah, like I said, probably not the only trades that are going to go down in the next

couple of days. We will obviously keep you updated as much as we can. But as of this recording, those were the big ones. After the break, we're going to talk Eric Carlson. We're going to talk NHL awards, a couple signings as well. So we just talked about a bunch of trades guys. The one guy who we've been hearing on the trade block for a long time is the one and only Eric Carlson, fresh off that third Norris trophy.

He wants to move. The sharks want to move him. Obviously, we talked about this last week. The biggest obstacle is that big fat contract and how much time's left. But, you know, Pierre LeBron wrote about this, certain destinations he's hearing Toronto, Seattle, Carolina. Your thoughts on Carlson, does he stay in San Jose or do we actually see him or GMs leave Nashville and he's a member of one of these teams? Rousseau. See, I still have a trouble buying it, but the insiders are starting to go to town on it.

So I don't know. Usually when there's there's traction like that, it just feels like there, that, that it's going that way. I mean, we saw that with Dubois for last week with, with, with, with LA. So like, I still am skeptical. But, you know, it really depends on how much, you know, San Jose is willing to retain. I'm embarrassing. We got 32 hockey riders here at the same hotel as the sharks. And none of us have gotten the scoop yet. Right. I know. They had to move our, we, the sharks had us move our, uh, the sharks had us move our, uh, our like athletic team. Yeah, this is hilarious because we were right neck. We're in the room right next to them. And they're like, absolutely not. Like for everybody listening at home, so we have these summits when we come to these

things. We got like, I mean, we have, what, 75 people here over the company, essentially for like, you know, like a summit, you talk, you have these breakout sessions. And we were in the room next to them. And the sharks is like, uh-uh. And the hotel moved us to a giant ballroom. So it was so much more comfortable for us. but the sharks basically booted us out of our spot.

And maybe that's why they were talking to all these people about Carlson. Yeah, for me, Carlson, I don't know how the money works. I've learned covering the Golden Knights to just ignore the money. It doesn't matter. I want Eric Carlson on the Toronto Maple Leafs. Do it. Incredible. That type of puck mover with those, with that talent up front, I just, I have to see it.

Eric Carlson, Toronto make it happen somehow. I would love to see it happen too, but I think Bradshaw Living's got to wait to see how other dominoes fall before he even know if they could afford them, right? And the sharks are certainly going to have to eat some of this contract. But what's going on with Matthews? What's going on at the Nylander? We're in a salary cap world, guys. The other big news this week, the NHL awards were handed out.

The biggest surprise, perhaps coming via one ballot that has received all the attention. So Connor McDavid received every single first place vote for the Hart Trophy, except one. Seth Rorba of the Tribune Review Sports did not put him number one, did not put him number two, did not put him three, didn't even put him four guys, he put him at number five. And everyone went a little crazy. And a little. You guys, just just a tad crazy because you're telling me that. Oilers fans are just rational as it is anyway, right?

They're the nicest fans to their own, to everybody. Hold on, Rousseau. Even Flames fans were saying this guy's lost it. I know you guys know I'm so I'm curious on your opinions you guys get to vote on certain things your thoughts on Connor McDavid fifth place vote

for the Hart Trophy. Yeah I tweeted my ballot out right after the awards were all done and everybody's like are you is this you just proving that you weren't the one to vote on David five Was it? There were probably 200 media members Rob not probably I think all of us

that when this happened we all went back to our ballots to make sure we weren't ones it's fucked up. Like I will. I did. I went back to my ballot. I'm like, please just, please tell me I didn't just go five to one. You know, like, like, I really thought that was the case. I thought it had to have been a mistake. It was not. I went to Seth at the bar last night and I had to ask him. I'm like, I got to, and it's funny, I walk up to him and I go, I got to ask you about a ballot. And he goes, okay, let's let's talk about my calder vote. I had. But, no, that's what I wanted to tell Oiler fans, by the way, like, hey, who is the idiot devoted Stuart Skinner number one in the Calder?

It was Seth. But yeah, no, it was not a mistake. He had an explanation. I don't really buy it, but it was a legitimate argument that he has. Yeah, and last year, I think he didn't have Matthews and McDavid. So I, too. So, again, so I'm like the grandfather of the freaking PHWA. So, like, I was just, you know, like, we had our meeting during.

this whole like controversy yesterday where he was just getting slaughtered. And during the meeting, somebody from the league who is not a proponent of us being transparent, they don't like this, sent me and said, just so you know, your colleague was just around the horn on around the horn now. Not him as an interview, but they were talking about his vote. So now this is really nationally and now he's getting slaughtered. And I was looking at him during it and I'm like, I felt so bad for him. But then I talked to him after and he stood by his convictions on it. Again, don't agree with it. we wound up having a PHWA after party at this moonshine bar yesterday, which by the way was freaking great. And I sat with him and the other Pittsburgh writers and he's not depressed over this.

Like what I was worried about was that like with all the online hate that he's getting from, you know, the people in the world that are perfect and everything they do in their life, that he was going to, you know, be all depressed and all that. But he stands by his convictions. The thing that concerns me about the pick now and the way, and this is one reason why I am actually not a proponent. of us actually being transparent with our votes is because now I do feel that next year, if somebody has, you know, an outlier, has that a belief that like I am not, I want to put McDavid here or over here or this guy here, that they're going to not have the guts to do it because they're so worried about what it's going to look like nationally.

And I think that as long as we are true to our votes and try to do this with integrity, we all have the right to vote for anything. And the grand scheme of thing, all these people that are really pissed off at Connor McDavid, you know, not having this one fifth place vote, he won it. He won in a landslide still. Like, who cares? It's one fifth place vote. Everybody else gave him justfully the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, like, like, you know, like, I mean, there are people just already, like, cancel him and all. I mean, it's just so stupid. Who cares? Like, we take everything so seriously. If that fifth place vote cost Connor McDavid, then I'm sorry he shouldn't ever vote it. But, you know, but that it did nothing, you know, a couple years ago. Same thing.

Like wild fans, the pair are incredible Swedish writer that lives here in the States. He had a, he had a case where he just didn't put him first for the, for the Calder. So it was 99 to one. But he won in a landslide. Who cares? Wild fans went after this guy like it was the biggest injustice in the history of the world. that was his opinion. And this is somebody that knows the sport.

So I just think that sometimes we just go a little bit overboard on these votes. You are the grandfather. I am. Who cares? Who cares? He wanted a landslide. So what that he could have been just that his second unanimous heart trophy winner. I hope it goes the other way.

From now on, I'm going to just take every oiler and put him down one spot my thing just to watch oil fans lose their freaking minds over something so absolutely meaningful. Everyone bringing up the fact, too, that Patrice Bergeron was fourth on his Selky ballot and he left Carlson off his Norris ballot. Those fans still don't think that they were going after Mark Stone intentionally in that series, like cross-checking in the back every fucking second. And then you point it out and they're just, I mean, like, I've been on the wrath of those fans. They're just completely blinded by orange and blue. It's just, my God.

That series was fun. Hey, Russo, do you want us to get off your lawn? David can't, couldn't sleep the other night because he wasn't unanimous for the number one. That's why he was so dis when we saw him on TV, there was like no, no happiness. That was why it's just, just destroyed. Exactly. I feel like on this podcast, Rob, I'm becoming Doug McClellan right in front of our eyes. Like, I'm just like, like, you know, you know the Simpsons meme when grandpa's yelling at old man yells at clouds?

Yeah. Mark Rousseau's our old man yelling at clouds. And I absolutely love every minute of it. Clouds and Oilers fans. signing guys, Jordan Stahl. Jordan Stahl, sticking around with the hurricanes, four years, $11.6 million extension, which seemed to be like the thing that kind of happened before all the other news

happened. So we wanted to slip it in here. Your thoughts on Stahl, Jesse, four more years with Carolina. Yeah, good signing. I mean, he's getting up there in age, but he hasn't really shown much in terms of slowing down. Like, he's a good 200-foot player, big presence in front of the net. he's he's kind of like part of the fabric of that team. I like keeping him around.

Yeah, I hope we're working for that franchise long into the future, most likely. He didn't want to leave. Like, you know, like when it started to get out there that it was good, that he might go to market, I was just kind of chuckling. And you just knew that they were going to figure it out. And they probably did it by giving him an extra year, lowered the cost. And it's a great, I mean, it's a good two nine for him. I mean, you know, like, yeah, he's not the same player he used to be.

But on that team, he's still a Rod Rendemore type player. and it's going to be interesting. I think Carolina is one of those teams we've got to watch these today in the next couple days and going into free agency. They're trying to make some news. They're trying to go into Carlson.

If they don't get Carlson, wouldn't shock me if they go after like a Matt Dumba. How crazy would it be if they end up with Burns and Carlson on the blue line? It's like they just had in San Jose. Yeah. I mean, they just, they make,

they try for bold moves. I mean, I was embedded with those guys during the trade deadline in Vegas and in Arizona. And from what, from what I gathered being around, them. They went hard after Elias Lindholm. I mean, you know, obviously they trade him at the draft in Dallas four or five years ago to Calgary, ironically enough. But they, they just, you know,

that's the one thing. It's like they have, they do have a seat. Like the one thing about Tom Dunden is that he has a price on what he thinks everybody should slot in it, but he's willing to go out there and make moves and gives Don Waddell that freedom. And, you know, he's like the co-GM there, you know, in the way that London runs that team. But I think Carolina is one of those teams to really eyeball this next couple days. All right, boys, final one. This time of year, the rumors going left, right and center. You guys are right in the eye of the storm right now of rumors.

What is the one rumor that you're kind of really watching and can't wait to see if it actually comes to fruition or not? Jesse. Connor Hellibuck, come on. I'm the goalie guy. I got, I, I'm fascinated by what happens with Hellebuck. Russo kind of mentioned it earlier. It's, it's, it's the contract that comes after this. Like, it's not, it's, like, it's, it's not the, the trade price.

And then what you're giving up to get Connor Hellebuck that's, that's, that's going to be interesting to me, I guess. It's the fact that whatever team does make that trade is going to have to give him that big contract. I mean, he's elite. Like, this guy, he, he's been top four in the league in goals saved above expected. like basically his entire career. Like this guy is elite.

You are getting a guaranteed elite goal. Like some, like you've heard like maybe John Gibson's another goalie that gets thrown out there. With him, there's questions. Like his, his play has dropped, not just his stats,

but he's picked up some bad habits playing behind a bad team. They're like, could you get an elite goalie? Yes, but there's questions. With Connor Hellebuck, there's no questions. You are getting elite goaltending if you,

if you get this guy. The question is, does anyone want to pay goalies? And, and there are plenty of reasons to say no. So, So to me, I'm most fascinated by which team takes that leap because I think that move is going to, it has the most impact of who can win the Stanley Cup next year. To Brinket, great player.

I don't think that move affects the grand scheme of the NHL as much as where Hellebuck ends up. Yeah. Yeah, goal-tending, most overrated position in sports. So, uh, just, yeah, I mean, like these goalie whispered Jesse, they just like, um, yeah, I mean, probably Carlson, actually. I mean, I like just, I don't know. I mean, the skeptic of me just doesn't buy it. They're going to be able to move this contract. But, hey, I mean, Norris and, you know, looked like the star he was in Ottawa back in the day again last year.

And so we'll see. And as I mentioned, the insiders seem to be sort of, you know, voicing this lately. So I think it's going to be really interesting. You know, this Mishkoff thing is really interesting to see who goes there. I saw Dan Milstein yesterday meeting with the GM about all his clients. So, like, you know, these Russian players, they really haven't gotten a lot of viewings this year other than watching them on Zoom. And then if you're a team that has a Russian scout in Russia. But these, a lot of the, I mean, that's sort of the wild card with a lot of these Russians in this draft is that scouts were not able to go and watch them.

They didn't play in any major tournaments and things like that. And that affects things. So, you know, that's, that's probably what I would go with that. Round number one of the draft goes tonight in Nashville. I'm going to let you guys go. bunch of Advil, go back to bed for a bit, sleep it off, and enjoy the draft because we'll be talking about it next week. Boys, good show. Thanks for doing it. Awesome. Yep to see it. And I want to remind everybody that right after the draft, Corey Proffman and Max Baltimore

are going to have a post first round recap tonight, so be sure to tune into that. And then Ian Mendez and Down Goes Brown are at the draft for their show tomorrow. So we're here at the athletic, got you completely covered for Russo, for Jesse, for Advil, for Pizzo. Thanks for listening. See you next week. In a game that constantly repeats itself, innovation is everything. It's all cyclical. Some of the best inventions come out in necessity.

Okay, these are the problems. What are those solves? The NFL is constantly changing. Its coaches are constantly scheming. I always joke around. I say it's 32 offensive coordinators versus one defensive coordinator every week because they all watch each other's tapes. They go through the explosive reel.

They're like, oh, this looks good. Let's do it. Sometimes, bright minds are. in the right place with the right collaborators at the right time. Yeah, Kyle barking at Matt LaFloor. Cow's getting irritated to the point that he finally gives up and they find a way to get away from each other until they come back and come over to solution. But I'm a glutton for punishment as some of those guys probably told you along the way. I'm Jordan Rodriguez from the Athletic. I'm the host of a new narrative podcast called The Play Callers, a series about innovation,

competition, and sometimes even self-destruction within the NFL's youngest coaching family. You lose that Super Bowl, you know, the lies that I told myself for, you won't be happy until you won a Super Bowl. Hear from these coaches like you've never heard them before. With exclusive interviews with head coaches Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan, Matt LaFleur, Mike McDaniel, and many more of the brightest minds in football. That's why when people say, like, I learned someone's offense, are you coaching that somewhere? What are you, the water boy guy who left his yellow book somewhere and now we have all your secret plays? Like, that's not how it works. My biggest fear, if you talk to me as a 14-year-old, would be the life of an 80s rock star to achieve success and then be on that downward trend.

The coaches who knew each other the best also became each other's biggest competitors in the race to find new ideas. Sean and Kyle are so extremely competitive. I feel like it's like they love each other so much that they hate each other. The entire series will be out on Monday, July 10th. on the Athletic Football Show podcast feed. Find it wherever you get your podcasts.