The Athletic Hockey Show - Connor McDavid despondent after another Edmonton Oilers loss, Nazem Kadri All-Star Game snub, evaluating market value for every NHL team, Multiple Choice Madness, and more

Episode Date: January 17, 2022

First, Ian laments his Dallas Cowboys once again losing in the first round of the playoffs and then asks Hailey and guest co-host Dom Lusczyszyn if the Cowboys are the Toronto Maple Leafs of the NFL.Then, the group discusses Connor McDavid’s despondent press conference following the Edmonton Oilers 6-4 loss to the Ottawa Senators over the weekend, and Ken Holland’s failure as a GM in the hard-cap era, how to assess Nazem Kadri’s true value in the midst of his breakout season for the Colorado Avalanche, Shayna Goldman and Dom’s piece evaluating the market value of every team’s roster, if the Montreal Canadiens-Arizona Coyotes matinee on ESPN+ has a strange appeal for viewers, and more.Plus, to close out the show in Multiple Choice Madness, the group answers questions about whether the NHL should adopt a Nickelodeon version of their broadcasts like the NFL, whether every NHL team really needs an All-Star Game representative or not, and, in honor of Chris Pronger’s imminent St. Louis Blues jersey retirement, which one defenseman from the 2000s would you pick to win a Game 7.And, right now, you can sign up for an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $3.99 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back, everybody. It is your Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. As always, it's Ian Mendez-Haley-Salvian with you to kick off your week. Ahead, we're going to have our men, our numbers man, Dom Lus Shishan. Did I get it right? I don't know. But maybe it was a little bit closer. Dom Lus Sishin.

Okay. We're going to go. You had it and you lost it. Okay, that's okay. We're going to go with that. Dom's going to talk about some of the player and team value models that the athletic has put together here in the last couple of weeks. We're talking about the Edmonton-Oilers struggles.

And Carter McDavid at the podium on Saturday, boy, he seemed despondent and just a little bit, a little bit lost, to be honest with you. So we're going to get into that. I'd also like to chat about whether or not we'd like to see a Nickelodeon-themed broadcast. Come to the NHL, because we saw it in the NFL, the All-Star game, all of that.

We're going to cram it in to the next 45 minutes or so. As we kick it off, Haley, what you need to know is that Dom and I are currently in Ontario in a snowstorm that is, we're not exaggerating here. For our American audience, I think this will be about 18 inches of snow, somewhere in that ballpark, 16 to 20 inches of snow, 40 to 50 centimeters for you Canadian folks.

Yeah, so Haley, we got nowhere to go, basically is what we're trying to tell you. Yeah, I live in Calgary, Alberta. I'm sorry about the snowstorm you woke up to. That really sucks. Isn't like 40 centimeters like regular for you there? It's like a Tuesday. It was minus 40 with the wind chill last week.

I don't feel bad for you in your snowstorm. Okay, it was minus 30 with the wind chill here. I know, but yeah, like this is my every day. And my parents love, they loved, because now they're in the snowstorms, they're not talking about the weather. But my parents would love to call me, be like, oh, it's like a balmy, like plus 15 today, green Christmas. We're like, I don't want to talk to you right now, Mom.

I'm going to hang up the phone. Don't you get like a Chinook every once in a while? Yeah, we're kind of in one right now, so it was like seven degrees yesterday. But I still don't feel bad for you. That'd be nice. Yeah. I got my one Chinook. We're good.

Yeah. In this weather, too, Dom is fittingly wearing his avalanche hat, which I love. He's got the, he's rocking his, uh, his, his collar. Avalanche. We're going to talk a little bit about the aves because they come up at the top of your model here in terms of teams and the value of their contracts. But before we get to this, I need some help here. I need a little group therapy here, okay? Because I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan and my favorite NFL team lost in spectacular fashion. And the theory has been floated out before. And I totally agree with it. I need your help. And maybe Dom, because, you know, you grew up a Toronto

fan, right, a Leafs fan. Are the Dallas Cowboys the Toronto Maple Leafs of the NFL? I, it feels like the Leaps are the Dallas Cowboys of the NHL. I feel like it's the other way around. I feel like the Cowboys have sometimes been a lot more spectacular about this. The Leaves are certainly getting there, but I know my good friend, Rob Bozola, who is a bet a lot with, and we talk about betting. And he, for some reason, is a Cowboys and Leaves fan.

So life is hard for him. That's what you get for winning a lot of money from betting. You have to suffer watching your actual favorite teams lose in the worst possible ways. And I live bet Dallas as soon as they went down. And then I, when they went on that, I think touchdown drive after the pick, I doubled down on that because I'm like, they're going to do this. And I really think they would have if DAC just slid five yards earlier. It looks like they had it. It looked like they had the momentum.

So I, I'm sorry, Ian, that was tough to watch. I know. But it's like the Maple Leafs way to lose a game, right, Haley? Like if you think about a spectacular way to lose, you think of the Toronto Maple Leafs, and then you think of the Dallas Cowboys, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I guess. Like, I feel like the Cowboys have been doing this for a lot longer than the Toronto Maple. I guess the Leafs haven't won in a really long time,

but I feel like in terms of just thinking about really bad first round playoff exits. I don't know. I feel like the Leafs are going to have to keep losing in spectacular fashion for a while to get on the Cowboys level. Because it's been a while. Sorry, buddy. When was the last time the Cowboys won anything? I mean, a long time.

And, like, this was one of their better regular seasons in recent history, too, wasn't it? Everyone thought this was it. Sounds like the Leafs. Were they in a terrible division, though? Yeah. Yeah. It's tough.

My Bengals made it through. Okay, hold on. Your Bengals? Shut up. You're not a Bengals fan. You're not a Bengals fan. Shut up. Don't get sucked into this.

Whatever Aaron Rogers fan. I guess I'll see. You know what, Dom, I'm sorry. I won't call you an Aaron Rogers fan. I'll call you a Packers fan because Aaron's. I almost am not a Packers fan after all the Aaron Rogers stuff that came out. That was just so disheartening. I almost bought an Aaron Rogers jersey at the start of the season because I loved him.

And then he comes down and says all that. I'm like, you are a piece of work, sir. Okay. You know what, though? I want to ask you one other kind of NFL. NHL kind of tie-in question here. If you, if you pay attention to the NFL, you know that there are, like,

the Dallas Cowboys are not a lovable loser, right? They're very polarizing. They're like the Maple Leafs. But the NFL does have a whole bunch of teams that I think collectively you kind of feel sorry for, the Cleveland Browns, the Detroit Lions, the Buffalo Bills. Don't feel bad for them.

Even Cincinnati, where you're like, yeah, listen, you're a Patriots fan so you don't, We don't assume you feel bad for anybody. So my question is, in the NHL, does the NHL have a lovable loser that everybody can kind of, you know what, I kind of wouldn't mind seeing that team win? Because I think it might be the Florida Panthers, but maybe I'm wrong.

But does the NFL, does the NHL have a lovable loser franchise, like the NFL seems to have a whole bunch of them? Can we call them a lovable loser when they're one of the best? teams in the league right now. Yeah. I feel like Florida is, they're too good right now. Yeah. I feel like I like watching the ducks and I like the Red Wings.

I don't know if like a lovable loser is the right term. Like I don't know if I feel like, I don't know if I feel bad for the Red Wings when they're like stockpiling players like more at Sider and Lucas Raymond. But. Well, see, like the Red Wings had all that success. So I don't, I feel like I wouldn't call them that either. I would just go with the sabers. Because I feel like at this point, everyone just feels so terrible for them.

Yes. And they have never won. And they've had those close calls. I think that is probably the best example. Ottawa might count if the fan base wasn't so unhinged all the time. And I hope that the fans listen to this take that as the best compliment possible. You are your sickos. and I love you for it, but you'd be more lovable if you weren't.

Well, it's like Vancouver, right? Vancouver fits the bill, but they're not lovable. They're not lovable. Vancouver fans might be more unhinged. Yeah. Sends fans are like fun. Like they're funny and they're weird. Oh, they're hilarious.

They're like definitely a bunch of sickos. Like Matt Botsey always asking if you want to go eat rotisserie chicken. Like it's truly like great stuff. Like I miss Sends fans all the time. They're really funny. But yeah, I guess the Sabres is probably the best answer for that. I don't even know why I didn't think of them. I guess since the Eichl stuff ended, it was just kind of like, okay.

Oh, they have your rebuild guys. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. I think Buffalo seems to fit the bill for that. So let's talk about the Edmonton Oilers then for a second, shall we?

It's a natural segue because the Oilers have really struggled in the last number of years, even though they've got Connor McDavid, they got Leon Drysidal. I want for the benefit of our listeners here, I want you to listen to this is about just under 90 seconds. This Connor McDavid on the podium Saturday night, remember the Oilers had a 3-1 lead after 40 minutes against Ottawa, look like they had the game completely in hand, and then Ottawa scores five times in the third period to come back and defeat Edmonton 6 to 4. Have a listen to Connor McDavid after the game and listen to how despondent and distraught the oilers captain sounds i'm not sure what to tell you um obviously it's been a long

layoff and um come in and you know work ourselves to a three one lead and give it away so you guys are playing with a lead uh which is where you want to be what what do you think fell out of your game was it just just a little bit of mental lapses there was it something as a group that you think just there was a love i wish i had an answer for you there um You know, we're rolling along. We get a couple chances early. We don't finish them. And we give up a 2-1-1.

And, you know, and then it's, yeah. Connor, I know it's not the playoffs. Hufford losses. But when you consider, you know, where you're at, you had a 10-day break, you're 2, 9-and-2, and you're up at home, it's 3-1, and then you lose to a 30th place team. It's one of the most frustrating regular season losses you've had.

It's definitely up there. Yeah. So I'm curious, and Don, maybe I'll start with you, when the best player in the NHL, the face of the franchise, sounds so vacant and despondent, what's your sort of initial reaction and take away from that?

It feels like he knows he's on a group project where he's doing all the work, and he still knows that the project is going to fail. and I feel like it's a relatable feeling for some people because he's doing his part. He's doing his best. It's just when you're the best in the league and that's still not good enough,

that points to what they've built around you. And I think two years ago, I think he and Ken Holland had a conversation and he told them that it'll give me two years and we'll figure this bad boy out and they have made things apparently worse. At the same time, it just really feels like the Oilers have been

pretty unlucky recently. Like they outplayed the senders. They just didn't get the goal tending. They couldn't score as many goals as they needed to. It's tough. I do think the Oilers are a lot better than this. They can probably turn around, but they need some sort of spark

that they're just not getting right now. Yeah, and I feel like when was the last time the Oilers, like, made a really good deadline acquisition or, like, won a trade. Like, I think that speaks to what Dom's saying in terms of, like, what they built around him. like the Milan luchy to deal was like let's get them to play with McDavid. And you've got like look at the contracts and like the different signings that the oilers

have made in the last like what, five, six years. I mean, I don't know if they've won one. And Alan Mitchell, like low tide who does stuff for the Oilers for us. Like he wrote a story about why can't the Oilers win a trade in the Connor McDavid era? And I don't, I mean, I guess that just comes down to bad GMing. don't have enough, like, good tradable assets to get a good piece back. I mean, last year, we all heard Ken Holland say, you can't go all in every year. And so, like, if you're Connor McDavid and you hear the GM of your team say that he's not going to make like a big move,

we're not going to go in every year, like, when are you going to do it? Because now it's not this year, because now, like, the Vancouver Canucks are one point back of you. And I don't even know if they're in a wildcard spot right now. Like, you have Connor McDavid and Leon Dreisidal in their primes. And if you want to loop in someone like Darnel Nurse, like they've got pieces, but nothing else. It's truly bizarre to watch this hockey team. I don't get it.

They have the hard part figured out. They have one of the better cores in the league just by virtue of having McDavid and Drysiddle and even Nurse has been unreal this year after some years where his defensive game was questionable. And for Ken Holland to look at a team that has those pillars at the top and say, we're not going to trade our first round pick this year. we're not there. It's just like, what are you doing? This is Conn McDavid in his prime. If you're not selling out every year, then you are failing as a GM. I remember at the time when he was hired,

a lot of people were skeptical because he failed as a GM with the Red Wings. He does not seem fit to operate in the Cap era. He was incredible as the Red Wings GM when there was no salary cap and he could do whatever he wanted. And the Red Wings were frequently one of the organization is the highest cap or, sorry, payroll. And now that there's a cap in place, he just spent like 15 years, he hasn't figured it out yet. And how many those, and I were talking about this before we went on, like, how many those players that were like icons for the Red Wings franchise were just like really good draft picks by a European scout?

Was that Ken Holland being like, ooh, I struck gold? Or was that his European scouting staff being like, look at this? this little old Datsuit guy we found. Yeah, or during the... Or during free agency, like, oh, I guess we'll sign this future Hall of Famer to add to our 150 million payroll. Yeah.

Or whatever it was. Yeah. Okay, but here's what I find really interesting. And Dom, this will serve as a nice little springboard for us to talk about your latest collaboration with Shana Goldman on the Athletic, which dropped Monday morning, which, you know, last week you talked about the individual

NHL player cards, which is really cool. We'll talk about that in a second. But then what you both did was you said, okay, well, now let's look at which teams, if you look at all the players and their value, well, which team is getting like kind of the most value for their dollar in terms of surplus value? This is what I find fascinating is the Edmonton Oilers in your model are actually getting about $100 million worth of value for $71 million of payroll, meaning they're actually you know, kind of outkicking the coverage here by about just under $30 million. So explain to me, Dom, when you look at the Oilers, the way that they're constructed, the fact that some of the players seem to be exceeding their cap hit in terms of their value,

like where's this going wrong here? Well, the difference is that like the way we measured it was their, the market value is based on their projected value. So that ties in with the team having some bad luck and how players should be a little better. Even Connor McDavid, I think he's on pace for like 5.3 wins, and he's projected to be worth six. Because right now, at 5 on 5, the Oilers aren't scoring as much as they should with McDavid on the ice. So that's something that should change. That's something the player cards, I guess, recognize.

And you can see if the pace is lower than projections, that means the player is underperforming a bit. So the market value from today's article was based on the project value. So the Oilers should be around the 10th to 15th best team in the league based on the players they have. It's just they haven't played that way. And some of that is bad luck. Some of that might be bad fit. Some of that might just be that things aren't working this year. I'm not sure.

But that's where it should be and not necessarily where they actually are this year. A lot of players have probably played well below what they're actually paid for. And that's the difference between looking at a team's project. and what they're playing at. Oh, man. Look at the flames right in the middle. Right in the middle. 15th.

There they are. It's where we expect them to be to start the season. And it didn't look that way to start. And of late, they're getting back into that range, eh? Yeah, I think a lot of it, and you know, you never want to make excuses. But I feel like we don't really know the extent of how that COVID- stoppage hurt them. Markstrom struggled out of it.

And he's like, he missed a couple games and he missed practice for an appointment. And I don't want to speculate on what it's about because he won't talk about it. But, you know, we heard from Darrell Sutter that Elias Linholm still feeling under the weather. And Darrell has made comments, like, we still have guys who are coming back from this. So I do feel like that's a bit of it. It's hard. I mean, they've played, I mean, they had that hard road.

trip, Florida, Tampa, Carolina, and then they had a couple days off and played one game last week. They don't play again until Tuesday. It's a really weird time for a team to be going through a tough stretch because you can't just play the next day and try to get back from it. You just kind of sit in it and practice and wait for the next one. And in this case, their next one is against the Florida Panthers, who? Like, are they the real deal, Dom, do you think? Like, is this the best team in the league right now or one of them? I think it's still Colorado. I think Colorado has not played with their full lineup as often as Florida has,

but also has some injuries too. But I think it's probably between those two for sure. Florida has so much depth. It's insane. And the weekend where you score 16 goals or two games like that is extremely impressive. Yeah. Should we talk about the Caroline Hurricanes? I'm just kidding.

Ian, we can move on from this. Yeah, yeah. Haley has a chip on her shoulder with the hurricanes. You know what? Since you're wearing the Aves hat and you mention that you still think the abs might be the cream of the crop, a lot of talk around this weekend about, you know, Nazim Cadry being left off of the All-Star, you know, roster for Vegas,

having an unbelievable season. I don't want to talk about that. We'll talk about that maybe down in a minute. But what I want to ask both of you is like, But sorry, Ian, can I cut you off? Sorry. I'm so sorry. I do think we should talk about Nazim Kodry because I don't think people are talking about him enough.

Like, this guy's having an incredible season. Like, why are we not talking about Nazim Kodry? Yeah. So just to recap, Haley cuts me off as I'm trying to talk about Nazim Kadri. Haley cuts me off to say, can we talk about Nazim Kadri? Okay. So here's my question. Hold on, hold on.

I was there. I was there. I feel like you're gaslighting Haley a bit. You said we were about to be. We're going to talk about it later. Yeah. No. Yeah.

You guys. Roll the foot back. Yeah. Go back and listen to the tape. A lot of talk around this weekend about Nassam Cadry being left off of the All-Star roster for Vegas, having an unbelievable season. I don't want to talk about that. We'll talk about that maybe down in a minute.

Anywho. Anywho. My point is, I was going to talk about the, we have the All-Star game coming up as a later discussion. My question on Cadry is he's having an unbelievable season. But what's his worth as a pending on unrestricted free agent? Like is some team, whether it's the ads or somebody else, is something going to overpay, like, how do we view Nassam Cadry is my point?

This is an unbelievable season that he's having. But is this a unicorn season? Is this like, what is, like, what is Nassim Kadri? It is so hard to say because he's never done this before. And there's so much luck involved with what he is doing that it's hard to know how much is sustainable. Like, he's not a 120-point player, obviously. but is he now a point for game player?

Is that safer to say? And it is, it's going to be a very difficult decision, especially for the abs if they want to keep him. But I mean, it's tough when he's on a power play with McKinnon, Ranton and Landiscaug and McCar and getting points there. And he's not getting the tougher matchups because that top line is. And is he, can he be a true number one center on a different team? I think he can.

but it might be in like the Matt Duchenne range where you're not like as sure about whether he can be like the guy, but he's still, I think, capable of playing that role. It's just it's really tough when for his entire career he's like a 40 to 60 point center and then suddenly doubles that. But I don't know, we've seen that happened before where players blossom at age 28 or 29. I think Pavelsky, Marchand weren't anywhere close to this level. when they were around Cadry's age and then suddenly they became one of the best players in league around this time. So maybe this is him hitting his stride finally

and finally figuring out his game at the NHL level, but it's going to be a tough call for a team to make that one. Yeah, it's a sample size thing, right? Like I think Cadry's best season prior to this year was he had 61 points in like 16, 17 with the Leafs, like 32 goals. 30, 30 goal, 60 points was kind of his peak and we're seeing a different one. And I think we just kind of, we have to consider it's a contract year for him too. Like there's obviously an added incentive to come out and have a big season.

But like there's also, you know, probably a lot for for these avalanche players who haven't been able to get it done for him specifically who's been suspended in the playoffs in the past. He probably wants to come out and show that he can add more value to a team than maybe what is represent, then what his reputation has kind of been, which is like good center. He's probably not going to be there in the playoffs. Am I wrong? Like, I think that's what people started thinking about him because it happened so many times. So I think we just have to kind see, is this a flash in the pan for Nazim-Codry or is this what we could expect in the next couple of years? And that's probably what teams this offseason are going to be thinking.

Codry's camp is going to have a ton of leverage to ask for a lot. But I think other teams are going to come to the table with like, look at your sample size over the, like 11, 12 years you've been in a national hockey league. But like I still think we're allowed to give credit where credits do. Like he's having an incredible season in terms of long-term analysis. It's hard to know at this current moment. But it's been great to watch because he's scoring some great goals on his own too. Like he's on the power play with some great players.

But like that shootout goal he scored the other day, like he's showing off his skill this season. Maybe more. Maybe it's because he's on the abs. I don't know if I don't know if I'm noticing it more. Maybe I just kind of forgot about everything. I don't know. Seems like he's been showing off his hands a lot this year, which is impressive. Yeah.

I think you're right. Like, I think for his true value, he's got to get through a Stanley Cup playoff without being suspended. Show that he can get through a couple of rounds of the playoffs, not get a suspension for doing something dumb. And, right, like that was the knock on him in Toronto, is that he just couldn't get it done and we've seen it happen again in Colorado. That's the final nail in the coffin in Toronto, right? Yeah, absolutely. But I think if he can get through the Stanley Cup playoffs without one of those boneheaded

type of decisions plus be productive, now I think come the middle of July or whenever free agency opens up this year, now you're looking at, okay, now you're saying I'm a legitimate top end center and I've got some playoff success. And maybe he can parlay that into a long-term deal, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah, it'll be interesting. Hey, I want to ask both of you about, we've got a bunch of matinee games on the docket on Monday

with it being Martin Luther King Day in the United States. And the one game that jumped out, I had to laugh when ESPN put out the press release on Monday morning, make sure you catch the habs and the coyotes on ESPN Plus. I'm not sure how many people are tuning in for that down to down or to stream that game. Is there an interesting, you know, sometimes when like two basement dwelling teams face each other, there's this weird draw into the game.

We're like, I kind of want to see. Like it's so weird. Like it's weirdly fascinating. Are we feeling that about HABs and coyotes? Or no? I am. I have a massive bet on the coyotes. So I'll be tuning in excitedly to watch my, the second coyotes game in a week.

Oh, man. She can't get enough of those coyotes. I don't care. Well, yeah, you're normal. Yeah. It's also really busy, like, with Olympic prep and stuff. So it's like, am I going to watch these two basement dwelling teams, like, battle it out for people like Dom to try to make funny bets on? Or am I going to, you know, try to figure out?

My bets are money printer. I know. I can see your view. I'm a money printer. You're such an ass. I guess everyone else can attest to that. Yeah, everyone who's, there's a graph on the betting. guide, it goes burr.

And I remember telling Haley about this last year. I'm like, I got to get on the bedding. She's like, I don't know how. You have to do it for me. You didn't help me enough. You sent me this spreadsheet and you were like, just put the stuff in. And I was like, I don't get it. The spreadsheet is so simple.

I'm just, I'm not the smartest. But Dom, what you're saying is in that, in that game. No one defended her. Yeah. Just like, okay, we're going to skirt over that and move, on to the next segment on the show. Jesus Christ. Edit that out, Chris. Producer Chris, help me.

Edit that out. No, we're not editing that out. No, he can't edit that out. Can't edit that out. And also, I like the fact that Haley just dropped in, like, it was the ultimate kind of little humble brag of, you know, I'm swamped with Olympic coverage and Olympic crap. For the athletic. Just dropping it in there.

Yeah. For the athletic. By the way, so our listeners know, congratulations on. being part of the studio team for CBC coming up for the Olympic tournament. So our listeners will get a chance to catch you on television coming up. That's pretty cool. That's really exciting. I'm going to clip all your blooper faces.

Oh, God. Yeah. Please don't. I already have so many. I'm sorry. No, because I make stupid faces sometimes. Sometimes I have to check myself. Like my first year at the athletic, I did a freelance piece and ended up doing primetime

sports with Bob McCowan when he was still on air. And that's like a national simulcast. And I made probably one of the stupidest faces I've ever could have made on national television. It was just like a really dumb smile. And I'm never going to live it down. So nobody has to watch. You really don't have to. Don't think about that when you're on TV. You're going to be amazing. We all believe in you. It's just my thing to make fun of you sometimes. That's what besties do. That's fine. I think so. I agree. It's good. I just love how. Ian went from skirting over me saying I'm stupid to saying I was

doing a humble brag to being like, by the way, actually congratulations. I have a little bit of whiplash. I'm not sure what to say. I'm overwhelmed with emotion. Yeah, it's the full range of emotions. I threw you under the bus yesterday to Arthur's staple and I didn't tag you,

so it was really funny. Which one of you? Which one of us? Who? Me? Oh, Ian. Because Arthur, when the Cowboys lost. Arthur Staples, who does great job covering the Rangers now for the athletic, tweeted like, and now all the Canadian hockey media are like weeping. And I said, just Mendez.

But I didn't tag Ian. Well, LeBron also loves the Cowboys. LeBron, Chris Johnston. Well, that's what makes it funny. Everybody, like so many, like national hockey media members love the Cowboys. And I was like, just never. Because they can't admit their Leaf fans. It's the closest thing we can do.

Yeah. Exactly. Moving on. Yeah. You know what, Dom, if you don't mind sticking around here. I got a couple of, I would love to pick your brain on these when we do some little kind of multiple choice questions because I think these are fun ones that I want to get both of your opinions on this. Okay. I want to ask both of you this question because yesterday, I don't know, first of all, did either of you tune in?

in Canada, they actually showed on TSN the Nickelodeon feed of the Dallas Cowboys San Francisco game, meaning it was kind of a broadcast geared to kids. There was like the fake slime that you would expect to get on Nickelodeon, a bunch of animation. Did either of you, even for a series or two, switch over and watch, like, just out of curiosity? I wonder what this Nickelodeon broadcast is. I didn't know it was on TSN. It rocks. And I would have.

I just didn't know it was on TSN. I remember the last year I had to find a stream for it and it was just behind and delayed, but I thought it was hilarious. So I'm all for a Nickelodeonian stream. I think it's awesome. Okay, so I have a feeling I know what your answer is going to be to this question then.

My question is, would you like to see the NHL adopt a Nickelodeon-themed broadcast? Yes. Yes. 100% yes. Yes. Sorry, can you repeat your son? Can you repeat that?

Yes. I'm not sure there's a clear answer there. Yeah, I think it rocks. I think other sport, it makes me envious. I actually get like a little grumpy. Like I love football. I get grumpy sometimes watching the things that the NFL or other sports leagues do and get to do. There was a sequence, and this is kind of an aside from the Nickelodeon game,

there's that sequence at the end of the game where Tony Romo is basically just working through live, like on air, the things that the cowboys would need to do to get the ball back how much time they would have to be able to make a play drive. Like someone said like Tony is it still possible. And like listening to Tony Romo like run through those scenarios live on the air in his head, like just the way his mind works, the way a quarterback's mind works, the way he can work through all of that on national TV. I just find that level of analysis so impressive.

And I have those moments sometimes where it's just like we don't always get that. in hockey. Like, we don't get the fun Nickelodeon. We don't get the, like, incredible, like, holy crap, did Tony Romo just predict everything that's going to happen in this football game moments? I don't know. I think the NFL has found ways to make their broadcast really good. Like, the Manning cast is fun.

And, like, there's just been a lot of things that have been good about these NFL broadcast this year, having Rob Grankowski just, like, chirping, Peyton Manning on national TV while the game's going on. It's just, like, it's fun. It's good. It's fun stuff. But yeah, Nickelodeon rocks. I think that'd be hilarious.

Get me more SpongeBob in the National Hockey League or whatever. Slime. Lots of goo. Yeah. Like the slime. Okay, so, but here's the thing. I'm agreeing with you. I actually think it's great.

But I don't know that I could watch, like, I didn't switch over because it was my favorite team, the Dallas Cowboys playing. Here's my question. If your favorite team was playing in a playoff game, would you watch the Nickelodeon feed of that game? Like, I wouldn't want to see Dak Prescott sliding with five seconds left in the game. And as the game's about to end, all of a sudden there's slime on the screen and that's how it ends. Like, I don't know that I can handle.

My question, would you watch your favorite team playing in a playoff game on the Nickelodeon theme, on the Nickelodeon feed? Well, yeah. Watching my favorite team has been painful before, I think adding some slime to the mix. Yeah, wouldn't that be fun? It can't get any worse than the usual. Yeah. Don't you want SpongeBob to pop up and tell you it's all going to be okay? Yeah.

It's comforting. Or is that just like our age showing? Because like you did. I'm down with Squidward and Patrick and the gang. You know, but I don't know that. Like it's a crucial game. I don't know that I could handle it. But I love the idea.

I just don't know I could do it from my favorite team. That's all. Boo. That's fair. We like it. I honestly probably wouldn't either But if they were like if they were like losing I think it's two extremes

If they were losing and I needed something to change the The mood and rally I'll just put the SpongeBob mode on Or if they were like dunking on the team It was like 5-0 and I want to see the other goalie like get slimed Then I'd want to watch a SpongeBob Vee as well I'm just gonna call the SpongeBob feed instead of Nickelonian Because I just feel like that's what should be

Like a nickelodeon these days Yeah it's freaking SpongeBob But yeah you guys are right Like, it's time to do some different things with broadcasts in the NHL and, and, and just think outside the box. And I don't know, like, if a Manning cast would, like, I don't even know, like, who would be the NHL's version of the people you could hang with to watch a Manning. Like, has, is there anyone in the hockey world that you'd be okay? Like, I actually always loved dealing with Martan Broder. And I actually always thought Marty had a really good view of the game and was really funny.

or Roberto Luongo would be another guy very kind of sarcastically funny I think those guys would be pretty good to be like the mannings maybe You need a goalie You need a goalie Yeah I would love to see his Twitter

Like how many people were like running to his Twitter account after Kodak Black happened How many people were just refreshing The like Stromboan account on Twitter Anyways we don't have to talk about this There's kids listening

We're talking about it There are. Nickelodeon. This isn't the Nickelodeon feed anymore. You know, okay, I got another multiple choice question for you. Both answered that you absolutely would be on board with a Nickelodeon feed. So let me circle back to the original kind of Nazim Cadry-themed question I had for you because Nazim Cadry was kind of the center of a fierce debate.

You know, Brad Marchand to some extent too, where they were omitted from the All-Star game lineup. And a lot of people are saying it's kind of reopened the debate. of whether or not every team should have a representative at the All-Star game or it should just be the best part. So here's my question. Should every team in the NHL have a representative at the All-Star game? Your options are A, yes, it's a way to ensure that every market has a vested interest in the game or B, no. Please, just pick the best players, the players have the best season, and let them go.

Haley, what do you think? Yeah, I've kind of waffled on this. And I think Jackie Redman actually made a great point on it. NHL network about this. She's like, Codry, I get it. You're having a great year. But like,

All-Star games kind of for the fans. So just like emitting an entire fan base. So one team can have more representatives. Like, eh, probably not the best thing. Um, but I don't know.

Like, I think it depends on if we're looking at the All-Star game as something for the players to say they could go do it or if we're looking at it as a fan event. So fans can go and see their team represented at the All-Star game. I, it's hard because like, you see players who are like Nazim Kodry who are having great seasons and they're not technically an all-star because the league wants to send like who's the Sabres guy?

Jeff Skinner is like a... I know, I think it's, um, uh, is it not Rosmas Dalene? Probably. Right, right. Like, you know what I mean? It's just like, okay, so are we not getting like one of the players who's having the season of his career at the All-Star game so we can have somebody else there? I don't know.

I don't know how I feel. I waffle on it. I think they should nix this whole every team should have representative. I remember when Zemgus Gergensons made the All-Star Games, just it makes it a farce, and I feel like it makes the game even more meaningless than it already is. If you're a player and you know that the rosters are mostly random, then who cares if you go or not? But like in the NBA where it actually sort of means something, where you actually viewed as one of the best in the game this season, then there might be more incentive to actually care about the game.

And I think that creates a better fan experience. Right now it's just a game with some guys. I feel like they do a really bad job marketing their talent. And maybe their idea is let's market one guy from every team. But there's just sometimes those guys, like they're known in their fan base and their community in their circles. That on a national stage, I think you should market the players actually have. the best seasons. And if they're there every year at the All-Star game, then they get more name recognition

and more recognizable across the league. And I think the initial needs to do a better job in marketing from a national perspective rather than a local perspective, which is what I think the current All-Star game format goes toward. Yeah, I actually love that. And I agree. Because I think when we talk about, like, even just the previous conversation, like, what the NHL doesn't maybe do as well as like the NFL or the NBA like they don't market their

star as well. I think that's been something we've probably talked about with this league for a really long time. And the All-Star game is not the only way to do that, but it can be a pretty big one. Like how long did we call like certain guys underrated just because like we weren't like how long were we going to call Barkov underrated just because we like we didn't see him because he was in Florida and it was a local product and we're not talking about him or showcasing him on a national level. I feel like. Yeah, because there's so many Blackhawks games happening. Yeah.

I mean, and I think it's a bad example because I don't think that we can call him underrated anymore even though we still do. But I think, yeah, I agree with you, Dom. I think the league needs to do a better job in marketing the real stars of the game. And I think that can that can start with having a proper all-star game with the best players in the world. world. It's funny, though, because I think a couple of things here. First of all, when I think of all stars, I always think about the end of season all-star team, like the first team and second team all-stars.

To me, that's the real kind of all-star team. But I think it's funny. Where do you guys come down? Like, Nate McKinnon last week was pretty critical saying like this basically said it's a joke that Nazim Kadri is not going, right? But at the same time, I love it to it. And anytime we get players speaking out, I'm all for it. Whether or not I agree with them, I don't care.

Like, I'm like, just be opinionated, be outspoken, be yourself, authentic, all that. But I think it's funny too, because we've also seen the flip side where like, star players have gotten to the point where they just skip the all-star game altogether, right? They're like, ah, screw it, I'll take the one game, suspension, the regular season. And so I find it this fascinating dynamic where on one hand, you see players stepping up and saying, you know, we need the best players there. And then we've also seen Sid and OV and other guys just tap out on the All-Star game too. They know it doesn't mean anything, right?

And if the best players actually ended up going, then that's something to actually put on your resume. Like 10 straight All-Star Game appearances would mean something rather than, well, there was no one else on this team and I was the guy. Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. Like I think I tend to agree with you. Like you want the best players there. If you truly want to sell the game, then put the whatever 30 best best.

skaters or having the best seasons and the most talented players get them out there and showcase them right like I think that that's the solution here because when we're talking about growing the game like that's about getting new eyeballs on it right and you're not going to do that by just having a bunch of guys you're going to do that by having the guys yeah like when we're talking about growth we're not talking about making fans happy from all 31 markets we're talking about getting new fans in the NHL and I think that's what the League has been bad at. Yeah.

And I think the other thing they can do is they have the skills competition where if there's a team without a guy at the game, bring him in to the skills competition. Like, no one on the Islanders is worthy of going the All-Star game this year, probably. But bring Matt Barzell to the fastest skater and you're fine. Or Ryan Poolock to the hardest shot competition or both. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you.

So the NBA has different guys and skills, right? Yeah. Like a guy in the dumb contest doesn't necessarily play in the All-Star game. Usually they don't. Yeah, let's start taking notes from what the other leagues are doing. That's what the NFL should be doing, but they're just not. Yeah. Okay.

One last multiple choice question for us to tackle before we wrap up this pod. St. Louis Blues are retiring Chris Pronger's jersey tonight. So here's my question. You could pick one defenseman from the 2000s. Okay, so from the year 2000 onwards. to win a game seven for you. Who are you going with? A, Chris Pronger,

B, Nicholas Lidstrom, C, Zedano Chara, D, Duncan Keith, or E, somebody else. So you want to go Drew Doughty, you want to go Carlson, you want to go Kail McCart, like whatever you want to do, go for it.

But you get one game, you get to take the defenseman at his absolute peak in this window from the year 2000 onwards. Who you got? Pronger, Lidstrom, Chara Keith, somebody else. Dom.

Wow, you made this easy. Lidstrom. Easy. No contest. As soon as he said Lidsdstrom, I don't even need to hear the other names. And then I heard Duncan Keith, I'm like, uh-huh. Hey, he's a top 100 player in the history of the NHL.

I mean, he was honestly unreal during that era for sure. I don't want to slander Duncan Keith because he was definitely one of the best defense in the 2000s. It's just it's Nicholas Lidstrom, right? You can't go wrong with Lidsstrom. Haley, you go on Nick Lidstrom? Yeah, like my first reaction when I saw this on the rundown when you said it, it's just like, well, yeah, it's Nick Lidstrom. It might just be because the Jersey retirement, like I thought about Chris Pronger for a second.

Like he won the heart trophy. He went to three cup finals. He won a cup. Triple gold club. Like, he won two gold medals. So I think he's got the pedigree and the resume. but he was also, you know, one of the most suspended players in the league, not to stomp on Chris Pronger on his Jersey retirement day, but I just don't know how you pick anyone over

Nick Lidstrom. Like, he was just so good. And he had the ability to play like every game too. Like he was, I don't know, four Stanley Cups. How many, how many, oh, there's Bono. Sorry. Where? Bono came to chat about Nicolidstrom.

He walked by anyways. We don't see him. There's his little ears. Yeah. It's laying down. Anyways, Nicolidstrom. Yeah. Seven Norris trophies?

Crazy. Yeah. The one thing, though, on, like you said, on Pronger, is he has a heart trophy, but he also went to the finals with three different teams where he was kind of the why a lot of those teams got to the finals. Philly in 2010, Edmonton in 06, Anaheim in 07.

To be able to go to different teams and do, like, I'm not saying, like, I think if Lidstrom went elsewhere, he's going to be just as good. But I want, like,

like we know that with Pronger, right? Like that, I don't know, there's a part of me that just playoff time and Chris Pronger, boy,

I don't know. Like, yeah, like Chris Pronger, like, you're not going to, like, if you,

it's quite the consolation prize. Like if you don't get Nicodstrom all you get Chris Prong or like he used an incredible, an incredibly skilled defender. I just don't know why. I don't know what it is. I don't know. You just see the list and you just, I don't know, feels like you can't say, it feels like a sin to not choose Nicklidstrom. I don't know why. There's no real wrong answer there. I mean, they're all, they're all, they're all Hall of Fame defense. They all one Stanley Cups and stuff like that. I just thought it'd be a fun debate. All right. Do you think. anyone would pick Drew Doughty.

Sorry, I'm on a delay, but. Is Drew Doughty mentioned? No, I said, I threw him in like the Pan of Hay. Oh, Doughty Carlson, yeah, okay. Doughty, Carlson, McCarty. You know what we're going to do, though? We're going to take this segment. We're going to send it to Drew Doughty, and then he'll use it as a chip on your shoulder.

Do not. I didn't say anything wrong. Do not. I didn't say I wouldn't choose. Drew Doughty, if you're listening, you're having a great season, buddy. Good job out there. Yeah. There we go.

All right. Good for you. we got to wrap up the pod here but before we do a quick opportunity for both of you you got anything that you want to kind of highlight about what you might be coming what might be coming out

on the print side from the two of you like anything that you've written either just dropped on the athletic or coming up this week that that either of you want to highlight no uh amazing

yeah Haley nope I got nothing I got a 640 player cards you can go through. Yeah. That's about it. Awesome. Hey, listen, Dom, thanks for this.

This was a ton of fun having you dropped by this podcast. Hope you, well, you're lucky. You live in a, you're in a condo, right? So you don't have to shovel. Am I right on that? Shuffling? No, I'm going to, I'm going to the dog park and I'm going to watch Ruby run through the snow, run amok. Nice.

Yeah, this is a great day to be a dog. Like, just in the snow. Oh, she's going to love this. She's a winter dog. It's her dream. Amazing. All right. we'll leave it there. Haley, you and I will do this again next Monday.

So enjoy your week and we'll get you next week, Haley. See ya. All righty. Thanks, everybody, for listening to this latest edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review. We certainly appreciate that.

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