The Athletic Hockey Show - Connor McDavid goal scoring machine, the history of the E-Bug and will Vancouver, Toronto or St. Louis make a coaching change?

Episode Date: November 2, 2022

Pizzo, Granger and Russo debate the struggles of the St. Louis Blues, the red hot Vegas Golden Knights, Buffalo Sabres and Boston Bruins, the reported rift between the Maple Leafs Sheldon Keefe and Mitch Marner and Connor McDavid lightning it up and the Oilers play of late.Stephen Whyno, the Associated Press writer who covers the NHL, has written a book on one of the strangest things in sport, the hockey back-up goalie, the E-Bug. Whyno shares stories of Hockey's Emergency Goalies and the wildest one-day job in sports, his new book available in stores right now.Plus the guys stick tap the performance of Erik Karlsson and discuss outrages, shocking or hilarious quotes from the NHL in light of Darryl Sutter's washroom break reveal of Jonathan Huberdeau. Get a 6 month subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowSubscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: https://bit.ly/3BKz27u Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is The Athletic Hockey Show. What's going on, guys? Another fantastic edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Pizzo, joined as always by Jesse Granger in Vegas and Michael Rousseau in Minnesota, who's got the Hattrick of podcast today. You got three podcasts today?

Yeah, when I leave here, I'm going to Wild practice, and I'm sitting down with Kalin Addison, who might be forward tomorrow against the Seattle Crack. And we'll see. I think the Wild are going to go 11 forwards. 7D out of necessity because they have just a ton of injured forwards now all the same type of forward too. Vlino, Greenway, Hartman, and Doham. So I'm sitting down with Kaila Addison today. Then I have a live show tonight at a local restaurant here in Minnesota. And Jesse, you're only

doing this podcast because you're lazy. Is that why? Yeah, it's one. It's weird like Michael's covering this super injured team. We're going to have Stephen Wino on later. He covers the caps. They're super injured. They played Vegas last night. It's weird covering the team that has no injuries. Vegas has been so healthy. It's nice to be on this side of things for once. You're just kind of waiting for the other shoe to fall that you did last time, or last year. But yeah, as Jesse mentioned, Stephen Wino's going to be joining us. Not necessarily to talk caps. You wrote a book about ebugs. And great read. I finished it last night. And there are people either love or hate the ebugs situation. I was one of the guys that hated it.

The book maybe turned me around a little bit. So be sure to tune into that and some great stories in that book. So we'll talk about that. And we'll talk to Steve about it. But I think one reason why people hate it is the concern that one day a team's going to miss the playoffs because of it. Or like last year, it did change matchups of who teams played in the first round. And I think that's the big reason. And one question I want to ask Stephen is just if we ever get to a point where they do just put a third goalie on the roster that,

obviously wouldn't count against the cap. All those kind of stories, you know, the David Ayers and the Foster stories, they all are great when they work out and they're all Disney-like and they're all like, you know, raise the music at the end of the movie. But you're right. When something like this goes really, really wrong, that's what people are really going to start saying, what are we doing here? This is the National Hockey League or putting Zamboni drivers in.

But we'll talk more about that with Steve Wino. It's been a busy week, guys, just actual hockey-wise. We get to talk a little bit about that before actually anything off the ice. But how about them Bruins? I mean, I got to go back and listen, but I'm pretty sure all three of us in our predictions episode talked about the Bruins falling off. I said they weren't going to make the playoffs. And here they are, 9-0-1.

They beat the Penns last night, tied for first in the NHL, pastored ex-sitting third in the NFL in points. Brad Marchand shocked everybody, comes back early, doesn't look like he's missed a beat. I know we're 10 games in, guys, but what the hell is going on in being town? I mean, yes, you will start with you. Yeah, we thought those injuries would hurt them a lot more than they have. And obviously, Marshan coming back helps. But I think, I think we underestimated Posternak, maybe. I think a lot of times there are guys that, like, we knew he was a good player, but maybe we were thinking, okay, maybe Bergeron and Marchand make him the star that he is. Like,

he's not the driver of the bus. He's just kind of on that line. But clearly that's not the case. he's been spectacular. And then the other part of it is, I think I've been surprised at how a lot of these teams, like covering Vegas, Boston obviously switched Vegas got Boston's coach. I thought it would take longer for these teams to perfect their coaches system. Yeah, like not learn the system because these guys have all played these systems growing up. Like every player has played in pretty much every hockey scheme at some point. But there's a difference between knowing the system and it just being second.

at nature and perfecting it. And I thought it would take a little bit longer for some of these teams. You look at Dallas with Pete DeBoer, they're kind of cooling off now, but they've had a great start. All these teams with new coaches, you're getting that new bump from these coaches, and you're not really seeing it take them much time to figure out the system. So I've been super impressed watching Boston. Obviously, they're scoring a lot of goals, which is not the way this team has won in the past. Yeah, and Allmark has been sensational. You know, I think that When we got Jeremy Swayman out at the NHL media tour, Steve Wino was actually there for that with me. You know, Swayman was the Boston Bruins, you know, representative.

And I, large part, actually, I think they sent Swainman because the Bruins had some big golf tournament going on that same weekend. And I think all the veterans like you're going. But at that point, it was going to be this whole goalie tandem thing between Omerk and Swamen. And I think everybody thought that they had one of the best goalie tannums in the world. well, Swayman's got off to a tough start this year, but Olmark has been just lights out. Seven and all, he's got a goals against hovering around 220. His save percentage, I think, is around 9.30.

But I'll tell you, we were just in Boston to start the Wild's road trip last week. And the Wilde easily could have won that game. Took a couple bad penalties at the end and killed the entire overtime. And then obviously Taylor Hall wins it with 10 seconds left before a shootout. But the things that struck me that game is their depth. David Krechie has come back from Europe and fits in like a glove. Pasternac was outstanding. I thought Taylor Hall was the best player on the ice that game.

And I know it's very appropriate sometimes to rip on Taylor Hall. He was unbelievable. He looked a lot of, you know, I think he only has five goals, but in seven points this year. But this is somebody to me that look like the MVP, Taylor Hall that I saw that night. And then the one player that really, really impressed me that night that I feel like maybe because he's been stuck in Anaheim, I never realized how great he was, and that is Hampas Linholm. That guy is a stud. And last night he scores the overtime winner.

That shot. Oh, my God. What a rock. Yeah. Yeah. And he went coast to coast. Everybody, I think, I think including the goal, he thought that he was going to peel off and give it to probably Marshan coming down the left wing, and he just went up the gut and scored.

But Hamas Limholt, he's also more physical than I remember him in Anaheim. You know, that is a deep, deep team. And I agree with you. I think that we all looked at them as taking a step back because we just figured McAvoy and Marcian is going to be back around midseason. Well, Marshan comes back way early and McAvoy is working his way back. And now you look at them and you're like, wow, this team could be a real player in the Eastern Conference, especially, you know, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, Florida's off to a bad start. As Juano was going to talk about with Washington, they're, you know, kind of, you know, old and might be on the, on the downward turn. Toronto's off to a terrible start.

Lightning looked like they're taking a step back. So, I mean, it really could be Carolina of Boston there at the end. I know we always talk about players are able to stay in the league longer because we know so much more about nutrition and exercise and everything else. But sometimes we don't talk about how quick people can come back from injuries compared to what they used to. He had surgery on both damn hips. And I remember sitting down to watch hockey in my basement.

I went, wait a minute, Marchant's back? Like, what the heck is going on here? And recovery is just lightning quick. He was supposed to be at least, at least Thanksgiving, American Thanksgiving. I'm in Canada, so I have to make that distinction. But at least Thanksgiving, probably longer. Suddenly he comes back and I watched that game. Like I said, did not look like he missed a beat at all.

No, I agree. He came back so fast. And I agree with Michael that the Bruins do look like the best team. And some of those teams have taken step backs. But I also think it's unrealistic to expect Allmark to be this good all year. Hopefully, Swayman's okay. he got hurt. It looked nasty that that injury last night. His leg got like caught against the post. And I think it was Bergeron who slid into him and it hyper extended his knee.

Hopefully that's just a tweak and not like he didn't tear something. I think they're still going to have to be a tandem. And I still think that they're a middle of the pack goaltending team. Like right now and like Vegas is in the same boat. I don't expect that goal that elite level of goaltending to continue all season. So they're going to have to, to me, they're going to get better in other areas. to maintain that. But they've definitely not taken the major step back that some people thought was going to happen, like falling off the cliff. Like, we all predict these old teams.

Yeah. And can I, Rob, can I just bring up one thing to Jesse that I thought was hilarious the other day? I know that's probably just out of left field. Jesse, I laughed out loud at Logan Thompson the other day when Vitrono came in there and he just shoved him down and then skated away and flipped the puck

and all chaos broke out. I mean, that, what a badass move. Is he as big a badass as he looked like on that tape? Yeah, he is so fiery. That's like that a lot of people don't know Logan Thompson just because he's just breaking in. But like that is his personality.

He is so fiery. The guys love practicing against him because there is no one they love scoring against more than Logan Thompson because he gets so angry when he gives up a goal in practice that like the players just, they like are constantly giving it to him and he's giving it back. And yeah, you don't see many goalies. protecting their own crease for anyone that didn't see. Vitrano kind of bumped into him a little bit, just barely touched him if that. And Logan Thompson stood up and cross-checked him to the ice hard. It was hilarious. And then the way he skated away and just cool as a cucumber, just flipped the puck

out of his glove. I'm done here. I mean, honestly, is total entertainment. Look for that gif if you're on Twitter. Um, quick side. No, I just realized Alex Daylock and Jeremy Swainman get hurt yesterday. And today we're talking about ebugs. Kind of funny. So those Bruins are surprising everybody. Something that's absolutely not surprising. Connor McDavid and Leon Drysidl just filling the score sheet. I mean, it's getting to a point now.

Like if you look at McDavid right now, 22 points in 10 games to lead the NHL. Drysidal, 21 points in 10 games. And none of us are surprised. It's actually getting video game like comical at the moment. And just for good measure last night, you Vander Cain with a hat trick. So another win for them. There's seven, three, and one. And I want to ask you guys about McDavid because we know him as the best player on planet Earth and can do everything.

But I always find that with players like McDavid who are just elite playmakers, you know, we saw it with Crosby, go all the way back to the early 80s with Gretzky in his third year. And there comes a point where they're like, you know what, the shot is getting too much to pass up. I can't always make that perfect pass. I'm seeing a Connor McDavid this year who is actively almost looks like he's trying to score 50 goals. Like that first goal last night, that's a pass any other year in his career. Do you see that transition where maybe he's like, okay, like Crosby, I'm going to score 50 this year just because I feel like it? Well, we all talked about how Austin Matthews, I think he's sick of hearing the goals are better than a cis argument. We all voted for Matthews for Hart last year and a lot of people.

their reason, including me, their reasoning was, well, to me, goals are more valuable than assists. Like, assists are great, but goals are more important. And he, he got sick of hearing about how Austin Matthews scores more goals than he does. I don't know what's going on in Conner's head to make him play this way. Um, to be more as, I mean, you know, I know a coach in this league. It's like, if he was only more selfish and, uh, you know, look, uh, he is such a dynamite player. And I agree with you. I think that was probably like, you know what, uh, screw these professional hockey writers. I'm going to show them who again. And the other thing is like, I bet I guarantee, I mean, Connor McDavid, I think all Lee players obviously have an, have this ego that drives them.

And he's not oblivious to the fact that people suddenly are like, is he really the best player of the world? Is he really the best player of the world? Is Austin Matthews the best player in the world? Is Sid still the best player? You know, Caprice stuff's coming. And I think that some point, sometimes, you know, he's just like, you know what? Screw these guys. I'm going to show you right now, who the heck is the best player in the world. But the thing that strikes me with the with with with Connor. And again, I go back to this NHL media tour is he was super motivated at that say to say that you know what we did last year. And the way they bowed out against Colorado is not good enough. And we're not just going to be excited that we got to the, you know, last round of the Western conference. You know, their goal is to win a cup. And I think that this is all in preparation to get them to where he wants them to get to. And so far so good. I think a lot of us sometimes look at that, at that, at that. division is sort of the weak division in this in this conference and Vegas is one five in a row off to a nine and two start. Edmonton, as you mentioned, is seven and three is one five in a row. Cracken have been pretty good this year. You know, I think that we'll see suddenly L.A. and

Calgary gain traction once Calgary starts getting better goaltending from Markstrom. But right now, those two look like they're the two best teams in this in this Pacific division. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Stuart Skinner too. I mean, you, Like, do the Edmonton Oilers, I know he's not going to keep up these type of numbers and what he's done early, but to the Emmington Oilers actually have two viable options between the pipes? Like, when was the last time we were able to, is that like Grant Fier Andy Moog era when we were able to last say that? Yeah. I mean, they're still, they're still winning games like seven to six every night.

But sure. The goalies have been a little better. To me, and like this goes back to Rob's initial point when he first brought up the Oilers, is we almost don't care. Like with McDavid and Drysidal putting up all these points, it's like, it's almost point, like we, they get no credit for this. You have to win in the playoffs. If you guys don't go on a deep run, win the Stanley Cup, we're going to just, it doesn't matter what you did. It doesn't matter if you scored three goals a night all season long. We care. Like it's, it's almost strange that we don't give these guys the credit for being as brilliant as they've been early in the year because everything with the Oilers comes back to, okay, but when are they going to win in the playoffs? Yeah. But there are 82 games to get to the playoffs and, you know, man, are they entertaining? I mean, last night was a great example, right? Third period, Nashville cuts it to 5.3. You think they're back in the game and what has Edmonton do? They just come on down and they set up a gimmie for freaking Drys Idol to take a, you know, that was an unbelievably good hockey game. And Nashville never quit, but Nashville looked like they had some serious holes in their lineup.

And, you know, we had, you know, on a, what, two, three weeks ago. And after the way they started, um, over. overseas, you think, all right, they're going to go on this run. They've won one since. I don't know what's going on with that team. By the way, going back to the McDavid Matthews-Heart discussion, Connor McDavid has as many hat tricks as Austin Matthews has goals. Just one to throw that one. That's crazy.

Throw that out there. How about the Sabres? I mean, I know that's the age-old way to say, we were surprised at a team doing well, six and three second in the Atlantic, and Tage Thompson, and hope you got him on your fantasy team, nine points over the last two games. Rasmus Dahlane finally kind of looks like he's living up to the hype. Longest playoff drought in the NHL right now, does it end, Rousseau? I think so.

I mean, there are some teams that really look alarming right now in the Eastern Conference. And look, I think that, you know, the one thing I do believe is that you become a good team or a bad team in the first month or two of the season. and right now they are learning how to win. Now, we've been teased by the Buffalo Sabres before where they go on these great runs, but it's never been this early in the season. And right now, I mean, again, Tampa looks like they were taking a step back in that division. You know, they're just, there's, to me, some teams in that east right now that are sort of upside down, sort of actually the same way as the central division.

But I look at the talent on that Buffalo team, and they're, one, they're going to be a good team. there's a lot of these up and coming teams that are going to be great teams down the stretch in the next two, three years. Like we'd love to make fun of Ottawa, we love to make fun of Detroit, we'd love to make fun of Arizona. These teams have a lot of talent, and it is going to be cyclical where they're back up here. And I think the Sabres are at that maturity point right now where they're trying to grow with the GM, grow with the coach, and put together a bunch of players on there. They obviously make the great move for Alex Tuck. He's off to a brilliant start this year with six goals, six or seven goals, I believe. Skinner looks good at times, almost point of game.

Milestat looks like he's not the bus that a lot of people proclaimed him to be a couple years ago. And as you mentioned, I mean, Delein is tied for the team lead in scoring. And they're getting cold-tending. So right now they have all the makings of a team that could continue to build to become that good team that come April, we're going to say, are actually going to be a playoff contender. I agree with everything you said except for the fact that they're going to make the playoffs. Like, like, I think Buffalo's in the right. The basis of your entire argument, that's what I disagree with.

Right. Like, like, I agree that. I agree that these players are, have taken steps. I agree that Buffalo certainly feels like it's heading in the right direction. Um, and I think they are going to be good. But then I look at the standings and it's like, okay, are they going to stay above Tampa? I highly doubt it. Tampa's been, Tampa can't play worse.

And I don't know if Buffalo can play better. And they're tied in the standings. Like, yeah. So to me, like, Tampa's going to eventually pass them. So then the question is, okay, Florida. Toronto. Are they going to stay ahead of both of those teams? I don't think they will. Even if Buffalo plays better than you, even if this Buffalo team is not Buffalo teams of old and they are a better team, I'm going to predict they don't stay ahead of Florida and Toronto. And like to me, Boston taking that

step back was why a team like, whether it was going to be Ottawa or Buffalo was going to be able to jump into that playoffs, Boston is clearly not taking that step back. So to me, I don't know, maybe, maybe I'm too confident in Florida and Toronto turning it around because they haven't looked good. Neither has looked good at all. The goaltending for Florida, it's like, you look at their goalie, Spencer Knight and Bobrovsky, this should be one of the best tannams in the league. They don't play like that on a nightly basis. Maybe I have a little too much confidence in them. Maybe, maybe I, like sometimes it takes us longer than it should to change our opinions of teams, but I'm still going to say Buffalo doesn't make the playoffs, despite the fact that I agree with

everything. Like, I like what Buffalo's building. I just don't know if they're quite there yet. And I don't know if those other teams are as dead in the water as we, as they look right now. Yeah, I think the one thing in that division that I was taking, maybe taking for granted is that Toronto is just the circus is going to make them implode. And it's just going to be like one of those car wrecks that you just can't stop watching. So I was like just putting them as the non factor. And I've seen Montreal twice in the last couple weeks. They are not very good. Detroit's building, but not going to make the playoffs.

And the team that, that I do think has all the elements of eventually being a great team, but needs. to be coach still because they do some ridiculously stupid stuff coming out of their own end is Ottawa. So I was looking at them. So to me, it's like, you know, Florida is sort of that one team, Florida, Tampa. And again, five teams technically from a division can make the playoffs, whether or not it'll come out of that, you know, Atlantic, who knows? So speaking of making the playoffs or not, and speaking of imploding, I want to ask you guys this, which team's going to make a change first? Because we're 10 games in and this is the point.

And, you know, maybe we'll get Wino's opinion on this as well because he covers a lot of these teams where it, Some people will argue it's too early to make a change. Give them time to do it, but other people will argue you've got to write the ship now before it sinks. So which team is going to make a change first, if any? The St. Louis Blues, lost five in a row. Doug Armstrong has backed Craig Barube, which is usually the kiss of death. You got the Leafs for all the reasons we talked about, including losses to Montreal, Arizona, San Jose, and Anaheim, and Vancouver for the reasons we talked about as well, even though they're starting to show signs of life. guys, are any of these teams going to make a change before the next time the three of us get together

to talk? Jesse? I'll say no before the next time we talk. I don't think it happens that quickly. But if one does, I would think it's Vancouver. To me, that's the slam dunk answer. I don't think, I mean, Toronto's second. I don't think Brubay is getting moved. I mean, the guy won a Stanley Cup three years ago. I just don't. To me, once you've won a Stanley Cup, your leash gets like infinitely longer than especially two teams like Vancouver and Toronto that haven't won it in a billion years. And there's so much pressure to win there. Both teams entered the year.

Obviously, expectations are higher in Toronto than Vancouver, but both teams expected to make the playoffs. So to me, Barube's got a much longer leash. I would expect one of the other two to be moved to make a change way before him. I would go Vancouver more likely to make a move just because of Boudros. He's on the one year deal. It's the GM wasn't the one that brought him in. Like to me, it's a very different situation than Toronto.

What do you think, Michael? Yeah, and on after hours, it's not like Jim Rutherford gave him, gave Bruce a glowing assessment. I mean, you know, it's a little weird. You know, I mean, to me, I look at it differently. Like, you know, when I think moves, like Rob said, I don't know if Rob's necessarily asking just about coaching changes. You know, St. Louis is the one team that obviously, you're right,

Ruby's going nowhere. But when Darga Armstrong, almost unsolicited is calling a news conference to sound the alarm bells, I think that's usually the sign of a GM that's getting very antsy and I was going to start looking at the players and it's like wake up now. So I do think, and he has shown in the past that he's willing to make bold moves to fix that team and he always seems to work, by the way. So, you know, I don't know again by the next time we talk at a week from today, but I do think that he's starting to look and he's definitely going to be starting to analyze what's going on the ice. And then Toronto is just going to be, I mean, there is so much pressure there

right now. When Cheldon Keith is coming out yesterday saying that even the 10 points they have, they're lucky to have those the way that they've played, you know that right now there is a lot of pressure there that they are trying to again wake up these players, you know, with both the GM and a coach that are on the short leash. So, you know, to me, I look at it more as like a collaboration of three teams that are under incredible strain right now. And it's just going to be fascinating to watch how all three of them try to get themselves out of this. Guys, as you know, I'm in the Toronto area. And Mitch Marner got benched for one shift.

One shift. And it was front page news. The amount of attention this team, I know I'm not breaking any news here. The amount of attention this team gets. And when things aren't going well, how much that's compounded, it's still boggles the mind. As someone who's been covering hockey in Toronto for 20 years, it still boggles my mind at times. And that's where I think the X factor comes into play is that it's, it's just so much pressure on this team. The insane thing about Toronto's struggles to me is like, if you would have told me,

Toronto's going to struggle out of the gate. It's like, well, look at their goalies. Freaking Matt Murray and Ilya Samsonoff. Of course they're going to struggle with those guys. Murray gets hurt. Samsonov has been spectacular. Against the Golden Knights, I got to watch him up close. He was, oh my gosh, incredible performance.

He has been amazing. This team has sucked with amazing goaltending. I didn't think that was possible. If you would have told me, Ilya Sampsonov is going to be, if you would have told me these are going to be his numbers, they're going to have six losses. I would have said absolutely no chance that happens. That's, to me, what's more terrifying.

Like I was just saying they're going to turn it around. But if you're Toronto and you're worried, that's the biggest concern is they're getting the goaltending they weren't even supposed to get and they're still struggling. What happens when it goes back to what we expected it to be? Which it will. And to Rob's original question, I mean, that's where I just, you know, I also like look at Kyle Dubus is they've got to do something. And it's similar, actually, to Patrick Alvin and Jim Rutherford. Like, this blue line needs to be improved. You know, it's Morgan Riley and then who else, really. You know, they've got to figure out a way to get a blue liner in there and pretty quickly, I think. And so I think that's one area that needs to, needs to be fixed. I just, you know, I look at all three. of these teams is just being sort of fascinating in terms of where they were in terms of expectations.

Like St. Louis starts off with a three and O. It looks like they're going to run away right now, you know, with the division, the way they played those first three games, and they've been so bad ever since. And then you look at Vancouver. And I think a lot of us like me look kind of foolish and saying, you know, that team, because there are three centers and their goalie are going to be, you know, a surprise team in that Pacific Division. And then you look at them and you're like, well, wait a minute, why did I think that when you have that blue line? There's, you know, it's like they're just teams that had obvious warts going into a season that didn't fix anything. Not so much St. Louis, but certainly the other two.

And I think those are super important for Kyle Dubis and Patrick Aldine to address here if they want to keep this thing on the upturn. Well, I can tell you one thing it hasn't affected, and that is the bottom line because Sportico released yesterday, their NHL evaluations as far as what teams are worth. Let me go through a few of these. I want to know if anything really jumped out to you guys. The Leafs, the most valuable franchise in the NHL, $2.12 billion, that is up 6% from last year. No shocker here. Arizona dead last at $465 million. The top six teams, as far as value goes, are the original six teams.

And the average $1.01 billion. dollars and a whole bunch of stuff in between there guys but i'm sure you saw the list at anything really jump out to you russell start with you well um the the first thing that jumped out to me is i wonder how many players out there like did we really have to three years pay back this escrow immediately like you know to get make sure that the the owners don't though make a bath like oh my goodness like i guarantee you that that was going around the group chats yesterday um but you know what that actually shocked me was minnesota at like 20 something you know like eight six million, I think it was 860 million.

Nothing is, nothing to, you know, right. Up 8.50, you know, and what I think Craig Leopold bought it in 2008 for 260. Pretty good return if you're going to sell the team. But my God, it's the state of hockey. Like, they have two of the great beat writers of all time working at the athletic. No, I'm just kidding. Jeff, don't take that out of this podcast. So anyway, but like, like, like, come on here.

It's one of the most gorgeous arenas in the league. and you can't get to a bill? I bet you that's what Craig Leopold is asking today. Yeah, what stood out to me is, and everyone, every agent in the world, I think, had a tweet about this showing how the overall worth of these teams has gone up in the last however many years and how the salaries have not gone up at all. The players are making the same exact amount of money that they were 10 years ago, 20 years ago. It's insane. I guess that would be my first takeaway. Second takeaway was, I'll bring it back to the team I cover.

Man, Bill Foley is looking pretty good right now. I mean, he paid $500 million to buy the Golden Knights in 2017. Five years later, they're worth $975 million. He has doubled his $500 million in five seasons. Like Rousseau mentioned like, yeah, turning a profit going from 200. It's only been five years since Bill Foley bought this team and he's doubled their worth. And by the way, Bill Foley has caught on quickly. He's now trying to buy every sports team he can possibly buy. He's got an EPL soccer team that he's buying. He's trying to

get baseball. The guys, he has quickly realized sports are easy money makers. He's just trying to buy every team on the planet. Who's, sorry to change topics. Who's trying to bring the NBA team there? Is that, that's not going to be Bill Foley? LeBron James. Okay. I mean, LeBron is the one that keeps saying he wants to be an owner there. I don't know if Bill Foley will have anything to do with it. The NBA thing's interesting because they have T-Mobile Arena here that has NBA lockers. They're trying to build a brand new arena just for the NBA. I don't know.

Vegas is like sports crazy right now. Yeah. First off, I misspoke. Top six teams are not the original six. Top five are original six teams. And I shouldn't mention the Ottawa senators, according to Sportico are apparently up for sale too. They were 27th on the list at $655 million bucks. but they had the biggest jump, 21% from last year.

But I have a feeling all their arena issues, their lawsuits, everything else. That's going to have to go first before we see any team sold. After the break, we're going to talk to Steve Wino about eBugs, his new book, Emergency Backup Goaltenders, who would have thought we'd be dedicating a segment to that five years ago when they weren't the norm now? That's all we talk about. So don't go anywhere. Okay, boys, I'm going to start this segment with a stat that I just read.

More than 45,000 NHL games were played between 1965 and 2018. And that one of them used an emergency backup goaltender, aka the eBug. Scott Foster kind of changed all that and the floodgates just flew open so much so that our next guest actually wrote a book about it. It's called Odd Man in Hockey's Emergency Goleys and the wildest one-day job in sports. Stephen Wino joining us on the athletic hockey show. Thanks for doing this, Steve.

Of course, guys. Thanks for having me. First off, loved it. I love the book. I finished it last night. And that is actually kind of, I think, high praise if you were to ask anyone who knows me or my wife who calls me a cramudgeon all the time. Because I'll be honest with you. And I'm curious to get everybody's opinion on this.

For a long time, I was just not a huge fan of the ebug. I would watch, you know, Zamboni drivers and accountants go in net and think, this is the NHL. Like, what the hell are we doing here? There's teams in playoff races. And then I read your book and I went, hold on, Rob. Maybe you could be a little bit more of a softy here. And there were so many great stories behind not only these people, but how they got themselves into an NHL game.

And like I said, the floodgates opening and what's happening behind the scenes. They're not always on the bench, everything else. I thought it was great. So let's just start right from the beginning, though. Like what made you, you've been writing hockey a long time? I'm pretty sure if I asked you us five years ago, you'd say, and never be writing a book about ebugs, but what made you want to write a book about ebugs?

It's weird. I mean, it's a combination of like, so remember when George Alves, the Carolina Hurricane's equipment manager, went into a game for eight seconds, New Year's Eve, 2016. One of my editors at the time was like,

why don't we, this is the weirdest thing in sports. Like, why don't we do a story about it? So I was able to do the research and kind of like call some of the old folks, Nate Schanfeld, who's Jim Schenfeld's son was an e-bug at one point,

and some kind of the old school guys who didn't even get into games and was able to tell a story a feature story that won an award then. And then all of a sudden, guys went into games. So the Scott Foster thing happens, the David Ayers thing happens, and it's the pandemic. So we're all sitting around on Zoom all the time. And I'm thinking, well, I need to like, I want to do something.

And maybe I should write a book. And maybe this is more than just a feature story. And it's just the weirdest. And you're right, right, it's the dumbest thing on earth. It's ridiculous. Right? There's no other sport where someone who's not in the league can play in a game in that league. And that's what it just makes it so absurd to the point where I went to publisher and

was like, here's the idea for this. And they're like, okay, I mean, if you can get somebody to write the forward and you get all these people, write the book. And so I hope I was able to tell enough stories that people kind of knew about from the David Ayers, Scott Bossers, to also a lot of guys people didn't know about. First of all, I'm impressed, by the way, that you, when you're just sitting around board that you decide to write a book. I usually just turn on YouTube or something like that, which could explain.

Bruce, I finished the internet. I finished the entire internet. I know, Jesse and sorry to interrupt them. But I just want to, like, what, like, to me, like, it really is. Like, you know, you always see these things when we're working a game on Twitter and another game's going on. And all of a sudden, one goalie's hurt and other ones gets banged up. And now everybody, you know, like just freaks out and turns on the game because it is so

compelling. What to me, like, of all, like, we all know that David Eris won. That one was unbelievable. What was your most compelling story that you found to include in this book? The weirdest one, or my favorite chapter was Carter Hudson, because I don't think a whole lot of people knew it. The fact that he was on an amateur tryout with the Flyers Minor League affiliate in 2010, the year that they went to the final and had eight goalies dressed throughout the season,

and the fact that he dressed for a game backing up Ryan Boucher, and it happened to be, and then happened to be jerseys off your back night, a fan gets the jersey, sends it back to him. The whole idea of then him becoming the ebug done well, like has a 10-year career in the NHL. Like every e-buckle goes into a game was like, yeah, I could do this for 10 more years, right? I mean, they can't.

David Ayers, if he starts another 50 games, probably gets lit up at 42 years old. But that was the favorite to me. The weirdest most organic one was the book was already done and submitted and everything. And then Tom Hodges comes into the game, Game 82 last year for the, for the Anaheim docs in Dallas.

And all of a sudden, like, it's the night of the NFL draft, and Twitter's lighting up, and I'm getting a thousand messages because everyone knows I wrote this book. And all of a sudden, there's another ebug in the game. And he played really well, but gave up a goal on three shots. And suddenly, within like two weeks, I had to rush that chapter into the book. It was at the last possible minute to have to get this kid who was an insurance salesman from England who randomly is in a hockey game and kind of reluctant to talk because everyone's ripping the ebug system and all that.

But just to be able to kind of rush in that story and make it as turn as possible was exhilarating. One of the things that I really liked about it was because we all hear like, okay, this goalie went down. The eBug is now prepping. And one of the chapters I really, one of the chapters I really liked was getting the perspective of like how these guys like go about their day. Like yeah. Some of them are super intense. This is game day. Some of them are. I'm just go to my job. I'm just going to show up to a game tonight. And if I get to play. But to me, the one thing that I never really thought of is how different they viewed it after they had gotten into a. game. Like Ayers mentioned like the innocence was gone. Like what what stood out to you about that part? Because I was fascinated by the mentality of these guys and maybe how it changes once you've actually like it's not real until you've actually been on the ice. Yeah, it was weird just kind of how everybody did take it differently of like you're thinking about it all day or you're psyching yourself up and all that. And then David Ayers basically did like this entire whirlwind media tour of like kind of became the face of the e-book.

went on Colbert, one on the Today Show, met Gary Bettman, and kind of embrace the kind of celebrity aspect of it. And he was able to use that to kind of promote the kidney transplant, some of his charities and all those things. And Scott Foster was like, hell no, man. Like, I'm good. Like he went to Black Hawk's PR that night and I was like, I think I did everything. Like he could have been kind of a Chicago cult celebrity and still, and he actually kind

of became more of one because he avoided the spotlight right afterward. And you still see Scott Foster. jerseys everywhere around Chicago, every once in a while around Chicago, that he basically wanted to go, I don't want to say into hiding, but he wanted to go back into being a normal guy, that like being like the guy who played for the Blackhawks is like one segment of his life and being an accountant and being a father and being a husband were like different segments of his life compared to David Ayers, who's doing a lot of work kind of with the hurricanes and publicity and that sort of thing since. And like, it's kind of embraced a different aspect of it.

And Tom Hodges, we really haven't heard from since. He did the ESPN documentary about this and kind of talked about the experience. But he kind of feels like he's more the Scott Foster, let me, like, fade into the background guy. And George Alves, who eight seconds of an NHL game, technically counts as playing in an NHL game, he's still the equipment manager for the Carolina Hurricanes. Like, he's still just doing his thing. So it's like, yeah, these guys took very, very different approaches to kind of what it was like to be in the NHL.

And Scott Foster even went back to be an eBub. like he still has been sitting there at United Center every once in a while sometimes he'll go with his kid with his daughter to a game as a fan and sometimes he's there to the point where this could happen again. Yeah, it's crazy. The one thing that jumped

out to me too is just how into it the players are. Because, you know, I remember when heirs came in the shot of Rod, Brindamor and he just looked like he was just devastated that this was happening. And I assume the players were like that too, like, oh shit, we got this beer leaguer guy coming in.

And then your book really emphasized how much, like the players are like, no, buddy, we got you. I would just have fun. Enjoy the moment. And it really kind of got me with Eric Samborski. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing his name correctly. But when Dave Haxdall gets him into the game with like 25 seconds left, it's like, okay, we got to stop at your play. The game's out of reach. Put him in.

And the refs had to go, no, because he's an ebug. And there wasn't a legit injury. We have to take him out. I'm like, give the guy the 24 seconds of actual. Icetime, and you could tell the players, everybody was pretty devastated for this guy. Yeah, and Anthony Stollers, I remember, like, he said that to Erickson Borski after the game. He was like, if I knew that, I would have faked an injury, which is ironic because Anthony Stollers was with the guy who actually got injured to lead to Tom Hodges coming into the game for the ducks, not faking an injury, actually injured. But yeah, Rod Brinibor was devastated.

Like, this was like a hurricane team, like fighting for a playoff spot against a Leafs team fighting for a playoff spot. And you're thinking, what are we like, especially. He thought some, like, hot shot junior goalie would be coming in. He's like, we're in Toronto. There must be a guy who played semi-pro, whatever, like some guy who's played minor junior hockey. And then a kind of shortish 40-year-old guy comes, like, walking out. And he's like, what are we doing here? Like, this is our goalie in February of an NHL season down the stretch.

Because you guys know hockey coaches. Like, they want to win every single game and looking for every single competitive advantage. But then the Hurricanes played the best game of hockey that night, guys, and you guys watched it. that I think I've ever seen in a regular season game. Like, they play like it was game seven of the Stanley Cup final. If you could bottle that up and every team played like that, no one would ever score a goal in the NHL. Every game would be zero, zero going into a shootout

because of how well Carolina played in that game. And like, hell, give players credit and Rod Brennan more credit for coaching that sort of game like it really mattered to David Ayers, especially after he gave up the first goals on the first two shots, and you're thinking, man, this guy's going to get lit up. And then from there, it was all hurricanes. And then the Leafs were devastated. Yeah, and they protected the house, so to speak.

Let me ask you the other side of this coin to get to like what everybody always talks about when it comes to the e-bugs is, you know, that was also a weird situation in a lot of ways because David Eris was essentially a Leafs fan, worked for the Leafs, all that type of stuff, which, you know, creates that whole appearance of impropriety type thing. When I was working on these goalie tandem project here at the Athletic, I talked to a lot of former goalies and a couple of, of them said there is going to come a point where they think that in the NHL that the league and the GMs are going to have to have a non-cap third goalie on the roster at all times because at some point this is going to bite a team. A team might miss the playoffs because of a point. A other team might get in because of this. Do you think that we're ever going to get to that point in the National Hockey League where the eBug is a thing of the past? Yeah, Russo. It's amazing because the Tom Hodges game last year actually did flip the standings because Dallas scores in that

game wins and then Nashville blows a four-goal lead at Arizona. Right. And honestly, change the matchups. Could you imagine if Jake Odinger played Colorado in the first round last year? Maybe the stars take a bigger chunk out of the avalanche, but they don't win the Stanley Cup. It's possible at eBug help the Colorado Avalanche win the Stanley Cup last year in a lot of

ways. They were able to sweep through Nashville and all that. It's such a crazy sentence that you just said. Can we all just acknowledge how crazy it is what you just said? Right, though. And I think that's a little bit of why Tom was a little, kind of reticent to talk at all about it because of some of the negative publicity. It did potentially change the future.

And yeah, Michael, I do think that at some point, this is going to happen and it's going to blow up. I was really hoping it wouldn't happen before the book came out because it kind of takes to shine off like the cool stories of this if somebody gets lit up and all of a sudden the rule has to change. But I tried to write that in kind of the last chapter, which again, is not as exciting as the rest of it. But like, there are a lot of people in hockey who don't like this. And very clear that, like, that they, one of the ideas is to have a minor league goalie who rotates up and is kind of like the, like they do with the taxi squad.

But essentially, instead of having a full taxi squad, you have a third goalie who's around. But there's only two nets to practice with. Nobody wants to have three goalies around. Like, that's not the ideal situation for anybody. But yeah, at some point, this is going to go badly. And, and Rob, you mentioned this. Thousands of games happen without this. And now it's happening more because it's so much harder to play the position with how fast the game is and all that.

that you're going to have guys, goalies getting, multiple goalies getting injured in a game. And one of these goals is going to come in, and it's not going to go very well. And imagine a GM's meeting a month after that where, you've seen this league change rules by the day. Remember the Sean Avery thing back in the playoffs many years ago.

Like, you can get a conference call and change a rule the next day. And yes, unfortunately, someday that's going to happen. Can I just throw this out there, and you mentioned it in the book too. Every other sport,

if you run out of a certain position, you just use someone else at that position. If a quarterback goes down, you've got to put someone a quarterback. If a kicker goes down, you got to put someone to kicker. If you run out of pitchers, you got to put someone a pitcher. I mean, are we ever going to see a point where they start saying, okay, our second goalie's hurt? Hey, Johnny, down on the bench, you played some goalie in, you know, Binder Peeley.

Why don't you strap on the pads? That's how it used to be, right? Yeah, it is. And it happened. And this was like, this was Lester Patrick back in 1929, in a Stanley Cup final game as the coach going in. in for a game. And the whole reason this ebug thing started was

the game in Florida in 2015 when Roberto Luongo went to the hospital Al Montoya Torres-Broin and everyone standing around for 15 minutes like, what do we do now? Like, like you're the final scene of finding Nemo, like, now what? Like, who goes into the game? And Derek McKenzie was putting pads on and

you're not sure if that has to happen. Even Artemisimov during the pandemic actually became close to this. Like he actually came, he was actually in his goalie gear in the locker room, because Anton Forsberg, by the way, has been involved in like four of these. Like, it's been Anton Forsberg getting hurt. It was like it was amazing going through of how many different, I mean, like the

the Venn diagram of goalies involved. But this almost happened with Artemisimov during the pandemic where a skater had to go into the game, but everyone's worried about getting hurt. I mean, Derek McKenzie was not necessarily worried about that. He's like, I'd go in. I try to stack the pads and look cool. But yeah, I mean, that's, that is one of the options, but nobody wants to get a skater hurt, ideally.

Rob, that's why the goalie position is so great because just, some guy who plays in a men's league. It's the like in in baseball, a professional baseball player can go play pitcher and at least throw the ball. Like these NHL players literally don't know how to butterfly. Like a guy in a beer league is infinitely better than they are at doing this because it's so specialized. It's great. Stephen, you mentioned. Always leave it to Jesse from the high, the high horse up there to talk about goal testing. Like we're all playing checkers and he's playing chess. Exactly. Go ahead. Stephen, you mentioned the, the situation. in Florida. That was one of the, my favorite parts of the book was the, what, what happened after that?

Because I, like, you mentioned, how do they pick these, these guys? And in most cases, it's what I figured, which is they ask around, they ask goalies in the area. They eventually find one of the elite beer league guys, the best guy. But in Florida, they did that goal of a lifetime. For, for any of the listeners that don't know what happened in Florida, how they, how they had that contest to pick it. Can you just kind of talk about that goal of a lifetime? It was wacky because the Panthers did exactly the kind of marketing PR thing that you should after something stupid like that is they basically said any goalie you want to come and try out for us from around the world. Like let's come try out. We'll run you.

Thomas Wocoon was there at the time. Him and some other goalies would like basically run. Rob Talas was the goalie coach. It would basically have a bunch of goalies, including Linda Cohen from ESPN, come and try out and physically like kind of figure out who should be the practice goalie for the rest of the season to the point where. And the reason I remember this is I was actually, there was a board of governors or GMs meeting in Florida that they did it during intermission of a Panthers game where it was almost like a final between two guys of figuring out, okay, who's going to be our practice goalie?

And they tied. And so they both wound up being the practice goalie. And one of them wound up dressing for a game this past season, last season, like wound up staying as an ebug in Nashville, I believe, and wound up going, like dressing for a game backing up. for a game. But really just a cool kind of having a tryout, which is way more fun than, hey, let's call up the local rank and figure out who the best beer league goal is. Just a crazy, crazy book. It's like it still just doesn't, you know, compute with me, but

it doesn't make any sense, but it's a lot of fun. And that's the other thing is you realize someone like myself who plays beer league hockey, I'm never getting in, but goalies still have a chance. And now when you see this, I'm sure so many goalies are just like, maybe, maybe. And that's the other thing is so many of these guys help these teams by being that practice goalie too, right? They know what an NHL shot feels like. Yeah. And before they changed the rules, like there were some guys who like Brett Leonhardt in Washington, who was now their video coach, but was their website guy basically, like would practice with them

and all of a sudden was in warmups. He's like, I'm just around these guys all the time, which is different than some of these, like Scott Foster, he didn't know what jet shots were going to be like. He was just a beer league goalie who was an option for them. Some of these guys are legitimately, I don't want to say part of the team, because that's a lot. But when you're on the ice practicing with these guys, you have an idea of what that is like, which is weirdly the David Ayers thing is he practiced so much with the Marley's and the Leafs that he knew what to expect from the team he was then facing as a member of the Carolina Hurricanes compared to Scott Foster, who's dressing for sort of his hometown team.

I mean, he usually grew up a Leafs fan. But facing the Winnipeg Jets, he didn't know what Dustin Bufflin shot was going to feel like, or, a one-timer from Blake Wheeler. I mean, there's no way to, there's no way to estimate that. Yeah, let me ask you, this, Stephen. Like, the one thing about having you on right now, we were just talking in the previous segment about all this, this stuff going on with St. Louis, with all this stuff going on with Toronto. You are the National Hockey League writer for Associated Press, so to just transition to a little bit about hockey before we let you go. What's your sense being based in the east of what is going on with Toronto? Because, you know, I do,

You know, the one thing I'll say, like I always just, like the wild got off to a slow start. St. Louis, obviously, got off to a great start, then goes into a slow start. It feels like a lot of times in the first month of the season, as journalists, we always, you know, if a team gets off to a slow start, we just sound the alarm bells, push the panic button, all this stuff. And then when you look back on it weeks and months from now, you think, well, that was kind of silly, right? But Toronto hasn't played well. They have massive expectations this year. what's your sense of that circus going on up there right now? What's weird is last year it was similar sort of like maybe overstated panic because they didn't play well at the start of last year, but it was different.

Like they were playing well and the results weren't coming. This year, there are some of the results have actually come more than the play has been deserved with Toronto. And Shelton Keith even said, like, we don't deserve to have 10 points. Like the way we play, we don't deserve this. I think the panic is justified in Toronto. And I don't know. maybe there was an underreaction and everybody kind of praised Kyle Dubus and Brennan Shanahan for not making changes after the loss to Tampa because it was Tampa.

But when it's the same thing over and over again, in theory, like you're not going to fire anyone for what you do in the first 10 games of regular season. But if it causes you to miss the playoffs entirely, then yes, something's going to change. And we saw this with the Leafs a few years ago in firing Mike Babcock and turning it over to Sheldon Keith, that there is sometimes maybe, I don't want to say an entitlement of players on that team, but there's an expectation that they're going to be treated well and they're not going to be called out by their coaches and those sort of things. And when you start to see kind of riffs in that in October and November, for a team that has struggled in April and

May, that is not a good sign. And it was already probably not a great start to have Matt Murray and Ilyosamsonoff as you're starting goaltenders. And I thought there was a chance that the goaltending would get the coach fired. Right now, it's everything but the goaltending, at least with Elia Samsonov playing as well as he has. And you have this guy play playing that well and you still stink. The alarm bell should be going off and drunk. It's one of those things writing the ship earlier. And I find maybe hockey more than other sports,

you know, you always have like Black Monday and football and everything else. But you could say it's really early in the season a lot. But like Russell said, sometimes that comes back to bite you. Sometimes it doesn't because you've got to, sometimes you've got to write the ship. Otherwise, you're just going to keep,

you're going to keep sinking. Or you laugh about it because remember, the Leafs got off to a bad start. last year too. And then they end up, you know, with how 115, whatever points they had last year. Yeah. And we've seen teams, the Flyers, I think fired Peter Lobby let three games in the season many years ago. And all of a sudden, like, that's not too early. It's almost never too early in the NHL because of we've seen so many situations snowball like that. Like I don't think the blues are in like Craig Ruby's not getting fired. Like full stop of all the changes that could happen in St. Louis, Craig Ruby's probably not getting fired, three years removed from winning the Stanley Cup.

But in Toronto, you could easily see Kyle Dubus or Sheldon Keith getting fired here or something major happening, whether it's some sort of trade. Because you always say, like, and I'm at Snyder always said, like, when he was asked like, why did you fire the coach? Because I can't fire the players. You can't fire 23 players into the sun and change everything. It's the easiest move to make. But yeah, I don't think, I don't think there's too early at any point in NHCs. Since you're based in Washington, it just asked you about the caps. I mean, you know, obviously, you know, what, 5, 4, 2, just on the precipice below the Flyers and the Islanders.

Injury issues right now, big time. What do you see with the caps going on the rest of the way? They're old and slow, and we knew that. But the injuries may be the tipping point, really, because they already knew they were going to have Nicholas Baxter for probably the bulk of the season, about all the season. Tom Wilson for the first two months plus probably of the season. You lose Connor Brown for the entire year with the torn ACL. When you lose Yoshi long term, and you can get John Carlson banged up, it's a problem. Like the depth is being tested there to the point where you're starting to see the cracks in the Capitals Foundation.

And I thought they were one year away from the bottom falling out on this team of just being old and not being able to keep up. Just like we've been waiting for the Penguins to kind of fall off with how old that core is. And we see how great a coach Mike Sullivan is. This is really testing the Capitol's depth of their three or four, five top minor league guys are going to have to go in and play. And Darcy Kemper's got to play out of his mind. And Charlie Lindgren's going to have to play out of his mind because at a certain point, the injuries just add up.

We saw this with the Islanders and COVID last year and those sort of absences. At a certain point, you have so many injuries, you can't keep up for it. And Alex of Etchen can keep scoring and he probably will keep scoring. But there's a lot of problems in Washington, some of which are in their control, but a lot of the injuries that are out of their control. Stephen, I'm going to speak on behalf of the show, Jeff, our producer and Russo and Jesse. Keep your phone on because if one of us gets hurt, you can be the eBug for the Wednesday roundtable edition of the Athletic Hockey Show.

You're good with that? Whenever you need me, I'll be there. Even if it's just for the last 24 seconds of the show, we'll get you on. You know what? I'll have my gear with me and I'll be ready. I'm willing to fake an injury. Steven, Steve, don't you think that it would be a great, great entertainment and comedy if Jesse Granger became the ebug for Vegas, and we see them actually do the opposite of what Carolina did and just open up the floodgates to let them get pucks and everything to shut.

Yeah, 100%. I think it would just be all of a sudden, it's like, wow, they gave up 80 shots in this game. What happened? I'm Willie. That's what you need. You need a reporter. You need a beat guy who's there every game who actually is a goalie. And then you could just say, get your ass down to the guy and go out of the dressing room, put the pads on. it'd be like Willie Beeman on any given Sunday where the offensive linens just sick of him and they just intentionally let him get sacked, that would be me. Yeah, the invisible juice. The book is Odd Man in Hockey's Emergency Goalies and the Wildest One Day Job in Sports. Stephen, great book. Really enjoyed it.

Thanks for coming on. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks for having me, guys. After the break, rapid fire. Don't go anywhere. All right, guys, my favorite time of the show and yours, Rapid Fire. to start with Eric Carlson, Hatchrick last night. He's got 15 points in 12 games.

So I'm going to ask you, are you surprised? And what year is it? Is it 2022? Because this is not the Eric Carlson. I know I expected to come into this season. Jesse, we'll start with you. Yeah, I mean, I was watching that game last night. He, when he scored the three goals.

I mean, he, we've talked about this before, I think, on this show. He is really the guy that changed the way defensemen play in this league. Like that style to me, he was the pioneer of it. And it's the get the puck through. Like you don't have to have this booming slap shot. Just get it through the traffic. And he's so freaking good at. I mean, that first goal he scores last night,

it's just a flick of the wrist, but he timed it perfectly to where the goalie was being screened. He fit it through that top corner. He knew the goal he was going to look on the far, sorry, the near side through the screen. He knew that top corner was going to be open, just a little flick into the net. He's incredible.

he's got a game that can even as he gets older and maybe isn't quite as fast and can't go coast to coast the way he used to, he's just so smart. He sees things faster than most guys on the ice. I think his game is going to age gracefully, even if he's not maybe the dynamic guy he used to be. And obviously he's showing that maybe he can still be that guy right now. Yeah, I think Brent Burns would must have been weighing him down or something. I don't know what's going on. I'm just kidding. Just kidding, Bernsey. You know what I thought was hilarious about that? Because I was also watching that. game. Like, it's too bad Leah Hextel wasn't piped into the arena because how funny

is it that she was like the only one that knew that Carlson scored that third goal? I think a lot of people in that arena thought Erdell scored it. And then all of a sudden they announced at the first stoppage after the goal that it was a hat trick for Carlson and that's when they threw

the hats on the ice. And I don't know if you were watching that game. I mean, they were some pissed off opponents on that other team because all of a and the hats came down like about 20, 30 seconds after the actual goal was scored. It was actually a very, very funny moment that Shark fans delayed reaction tossing the hats on the ice. Rapid fire topic number two, the injuries just keep piling up guys.

Seth Jones out three or four weeks with a thumb injury, T.J. O'Sheed and definitely Andre Pallat, Jimmy Drysdale. How about here in Minnesota? Yeah, yeah, that's right. And, you know, Jesse, the guy who's so used to covering all those injuries from last year, it's got the healthiest team on this podcast. Which one really stands out as the one that's going to hurt a team the most? Are you surprised we're seeing it this early in the season?

Yeah, I'm not surprised. I mean, last year I remember there was huge players, you know, out early in the season, big-time players for every team. This is a physical sport. It is so easy to get a fluky injury right now. I mentioned Minnesota. I mean, this is going to be really interesting because the wild are on fire right now. They're winning almost every single night.

And now they have four very similar style forwards out. Jordan Greenway's out. Ryan Hartman is out indefinitely long-term with an upper body injury after getting into a fight the other night in Chicago with Jared Tenorty. Wrong decision by Ryan. Marcus Felino's out right now in an undetermined amount of time. Then last night, Brandon Dewhame got out. So they're four of the biggest, most gritty-grittiest players on the wild.

And I think that's going to really hurt them. And we'll see if they go 11 forwards in 70 or bring up somebody. else from Iowa, but their depth is getting tested. I think T.J. Oshy, just on the players, do you mention, is pretty important, obviously, to a Washington team that's got already ravaged with injuries, as Steve Wano just mentioned on the previous segment and are already getting older and slower, as Wano said. Yeah, I think Seth Jones is going to help the Chicago Blackhawks tank the way I almost said that. I almost put that joke the other night on Twitter, Jesse. I just thought that would be a bad thing.

Yeah, I mean, nobody is rooting for a player to get hurt, but the Blackhawks had won four in a row, and they're like, what the hell is going on? We're supposed to be losing. Seth Jones goes down, four losses in a row.

They are back on track for Carnot-Badar. It's crazy. I mean, it's like I said, don't want to make too light of a guy getting hurt, but it's definitely helping the Blackhawks in what they were hoping to have out of this season. They're almost like, you know, like those powers on Laz really pointed out the other day.

It's true. It's like they're trying to tank. but they almost built like a too good of a team tank. And you do, you know, the good news is in the lottery system that as long as you don't make the playoffs, really anybody's a shot. But, man, that team is working hard. Like, the while we're just there the other day, the while we're on fumes at the end of a five-game road trip.

But that team works their butt off. And they're getting, I think, better goaltending than ever thought from Alex Steylock. And now I think hopefully Steylock is okay after getting there ridiculously, I mean, you know, to me, careless. run from Sazika Susser. Let's stick with teams who want to lose to get a good shot at Connor Bernard, the Arizona Coyotes. They actually picked up a win at the Mullet Arena, guys.

Three won over the Panthers. My theories at the Panthers do not have an adequate dressing room to get ready in, and that's why they lost the game. Agree or disagree. 100%. I totally agree. We talked to Eric Stahl about this last week. I know.

It's like, come on. The Florida Panthers go in there. lose right after everything comes out about this uh about this dresser room i mean can't be a coincidence right they have not i mean they're not used to getting dressed just in an open space with curtains around them no showers or anything like i said anytime our men's league dressing rooms are better um that that's a huge issue and finally guys are it seems like a weekly occurrence got to give you a darrell sutter quote jonathan huberdow disappeared for the bench halfway through uh the battle of Alberta game. And of course, he was asked about it. Hey, is Jonathan Hubert O. Okay? And I want to make sure I get

this quote exactly right. Quote, I think he had to take a shit with the most deadpan straight Darrell Sutter face ever. You guys ever had somebody answer? Like, I've had people, I've been in scrums or interviews where people say something funny, but then they kind of smile. But have you ever had somebody just say something like that as if he's saying, oh, he had a skate lace problem or he had any injury? He said it the exact same way. Jesse? Yeah. Go ahead, Michael. Oh, I was just going to say, I mean, as you were saying, Rob, I mean, his face after he said it, I mean, honestly, it is like, next question. He basically wanted to say next question. Yeah. The one thing, have we confirmed that that's really why, like, has anybody actually gone to Huberto and said, is that really why he left

the bench? Or was it, was it a joke? Like, hey, I'm not telling you why he left the bench. Does that sound like a story you want to go and try to confirm? I think you have to. I think you got to get. I mean, to me, if you are a good, good reporter, you got to get to the bottom of the story. You go to that stall and you make sure that that's actually what happened. Like, did you, did what happened to Roberto Luongo years ago in the playoffs happened to you? Or are you really banged up?

Like, that's what I want to know. Rob, when you wrote this in the rundown, like what does this, is there a quote that this reminds you of where they're just deadpan serious. It reminds me of, so we were asking Mark Stone last year about, I think it was last season, about Robin Lennar, just what kind of guy is he like? What's he like around? And he's like, yeah, man, he's a pretty weird guy. Like I remember we had him over to my house for a party and he was digging snake holes in the backyard and he just keeps going on and on. And everyone in the room goes, well, wait a minute,

Mark, we got to go back. Did you say snake holes? What the hell is a snake hole? And he just said it so casually. you got to explain to us what a snake hole is. And then he starts laughing and he's like, yeah, we were all at my house for a party. And Ryan Reeves, I guess Lennar found out that Ryan Reeves is afraid of snakes. So he then went in my backyard to find a snake, started digging holes in his, because these guys live on the edge of the desert where there's wildlife out there. Mark Stone said, I've never seen a snake in my house in the entire time I've lived there. Lennar went out there digging a bunch of holes looking for snakes.

came back, couldn't find one. He's like, damn it, I couldn't find one. I was going to scare Revo with it. Couldn't find one. The next morning, apparently Stone's wife wakes up and there are snakes in their pool in the backyard.

And she's like, that guy is never allowed over at our house. Wow. Wow. So, yes, when Mark Stone said snake hole, and everyone in the entire room was like looking at each other, like, what the hell is a snake hole?

Craziest thing I've ever heard, So we're in the igloo once, and Darius Casparitis dove. And I'm not going to say who said this quote. But yeah, I probably shouldn't even tell this story. Too late. Too late. Somebody could look this up. But Darius Casperitis dove, penalty is called on the player that he dove against.

And Pittsburgh scores the winning goal. Next after the game, Brian DeGame from Palmage Post and I go up to that player that hooked him or pushed him or whatever. And he made some comment, and he said, I push my girlfriend harder than that. And, you know, I basically said to the player, like, you know, you really can't say that. He goes, and Brian's like, you know, we're using it.

And I said, do you want us to retract it? He's like, no, no, just make it clear that I was joking. So anyway, I go upstairs and I made it extremely clear that it was a joke. Probably not a great tasting joke, but it was a joke. And anyway, the next day we get to Long Island, and that player crying had to come out and apologize. It was a huge story in the NHL that day. Brian Murray made him come out and address it.

And it was a bad situation. But that's the one thing that popped in my mind when you said, like, was the craziest thing you ever heard in a joke in a quote. This one was classic Daryl Sutter. And as we talked about, we've talked about this on like every segment. Like, you know, is there anything funnier than watching a Daryl Sutter press conference? It's just truly, truly entertaining. But it's not just what he says.

It's his delivery. Like he said, like he said that. Had Jonathan Huberto had a broken skate or some sort of equipment issue, he would have answered it the exact same way. Yeah. And that's why we love Darrow Sutter. And you two both could not have had more opposite stories. Snake holes. I know.

I went the weird, yeah, I went down the rabbit hole of just bizarre stuff. What are we working on this week, guys? What are we working on this week? Jesse? I'm working on a fun story on player equipment. I'm a gear nerd, obviously playing goalie. We're obsessed with the gear. But this is not goalie gear.

This is player gear all over the league. Nerdy gear story that I think people are going to really like. Russo? Yeah, I'm working on one, I've been kind of teasing this for a month, a really hilarious Jake Middleton story. I mean, it's just really funny. And it's probably going to run early next week, I would say, at this point. because the wild have a bunch of days off here.

Working on a Mike Medano, NHL-99 story that are, I mean, just great stories about him. And then working on a couple national stories. One, I'll be going to Seattle's either, they cancel practice today, their morning skate tomorrow, maybe diving into the Shane Wright situation, which I think has been a little overblown, quite personally. I could tell you, talking to his representatives, they're not overly as concerned as the media is making this out to be as in terms of thing. And then I mentioned the goalie tier story that we were doing.

We're not really doing the tiers now, but I am doing something on that sort of the trend of goalie tannums in the National Hockey League and where that's going because last year only five goalies played more than 60 games in National Hockey League. So that's what's going on now. And then I'm doing a Kalin Addison podcast last later as I teased at the top of the show. Well, we'll talk about all of that and more next week. Thanks again, guys, for obviously another fine edition of the show. And I want to let everybody else know, as I do each.

every week. You can subscribe to the athletic hockey show. Now you can subscribe on YouTube as well so you can see our pretty faces and Jesse too. And you can subscribe to Apple Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts to get all the bonus content from our entire network. You start with a 30 day free trial. Then it's just 99 cents a month after that. And this offer still stands. You get an annual subscription to the athletic for just a dollar a month for six months when you visit the athletic.com slash hockey show. The Athletic Hockey Show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown. And also want to let you know Hillary Knight is going to be joining Haley Salveon and Sean Gentilly on the Friday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. So be sure to tune into that. For Russo and Jesse, I'm Pizzo. See you next week.