The Athletic Hockey Show - Connor McDavid vs. Connor Bedard: the NHL’s next great rivalry?, Gudbranson, Perron facing Department of Player Safety hearings, Tavares heads to Long Island 2 points shy of 1,000, playoff bubble teams best bets, and more

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

On a brand new Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, Julian is joined by guest cohost Mark Lazerus to discuss Laz’s and Daniel Nugent-Bowman’s “Connor vs. Connor” article about the NHL��s potential next great rivalry, Erik Gudbranson and David Perron facing hearings with the NHL’s Department of Player Safety, John Tavares with a chance to reach 1,000 career points against the Islanders on Long Island tonight, a couple of listener questions, and more.Plus, Jesse Granger joins the show to give his thoughts on which current playoff teams won’t make the playoffs and which teams currently outside the playoffs will end up in the playoffs, presented by BetMGM.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGift a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $19.99 or a 2-year subscription for $39.99 when you visit theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Welcome to the athletic hockey show. I'm Julian McKenzie, taking over for Ian Mendez, who normally does the intro stuff. He's not here because I think he needed a listening session for himself with that new Nicki Minaj album that came out over the weekend. He's a very big Nicki Minaj fan, so he needs that time for himself. So, Mark Lazarus is joining me for the next little while to talk all things hockey. How are you doing, man?

I'm good. I am sitting here in the passenger seat of my car in an off-site parking lot at O'Hare using a mobile hot spot to connect to this. So fingers crossed, this isn't a total disaster. Oh, there's no way this could ever be a disaster. It's an episode with you and me. I mean, like, what, we're going to complain about something. I'm sure there will be some dad joke somewhere. Nothing.

Why I go wrong? No, there's no way. I'm sure a Simpsons reference will be made at some point. Dude, I literally just made one the sentence before you said that. It went right over your head. It actually did. I was probably speaking over it. Wow.

One thing has already gone wrong on the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. Jesse Granger will join us later on in the show. I should mention, because our bosses are telling us this, you know, obviously we got the show. We got the mailback coming up later. Our best of content for 2023, you're starting to see a lot of year-end stuff from all these places, including us, we will have our best of content out one week from today. Look out for best content for articles, podcasts. That could come out, not could come out, will come out one week from today.

So beyond the lookout for that, maybe you'll come up in one, Mark. I just want to say you said the word content three times there and I died every single time. That is the worst word in journalism is the word content. We have against the C word, Mark Lasgers. We've got to get our content. We've got to get our content on as many surfaces as we possibly can so readers can consume them. Oh, it drives me nuts. There's stories and people read them.

They're stories. Okay. Well, how about this? The first thing I wanted to bring up in terms of stories for today's episode of the Athletic Hockey Show is a great story you wrote with Daniel Nugent Bowman called Could Connor McDavid and Connor Bedard forge the NHL's next great rivalry? The reason why you are in a parking lot right now at the airport is because you'll be making your way to Edmonton to watch Connor McDavid play Connor Bred on Tuesday. And this is our first opportunity to try to build up a Connor versus Connor rivalry. I love what you did with DNB and I love the fact that you guys were able to get some perspectives from both Chicago players and Emmett's players. Can you take us through that story?

Can you take us through the idea that, you know, a Connor versus Connor thing in the National Highman. How did this come together? You got the floor. Tell me about this. Well, I mean, I think everyone's always looking for the next Sid and Ovi, right? Everyone wants to see who's going to be the next Crosby Ovechkin. Now, that was a very unusual situation where they came up the same time, because of the lockout. They actually came up the same time. They didn't like each other at all, which is unusual in the NFL among star players.

And they played in the playoffs seemingly every year because they were rivals. They were geographical rivals. They were mutual hate rivals. and we're elite talent rivals. And we've always kind of been looking for the next one of those. Now, Badard and McDavid aren't exactly contemporaries. I mean, Bedard's 18. McDavid is, I think, 26.

I mean, right in the prime of his career, you know, McDavid is the present and Bedard is the future. They don't exactly line up. And, you know, the Oilers championship window is theoretically now. The Blackhawks aren't even thinking about the playoffs for three or four years. So it might be a challenge. But, you know, these are, this is the two most hyped prospects we've seen since Sidney Crosby, right?

McDavid and Bedard were hyped to a level that, you know, Alexei LaFrenier was never hyped at, that Neil Yakupov was never hyped at. These are, these are different level guys in the heights. So you wonder, can these two forge a rivalry just based on sheer awesomeness, right? You know, they're very different players.

Like Connor Bedard, I asked him about, you know, he's always talking about how he watches great players. He's like, yeah, I watch McDavid, but you can't take anything from him because what he does out there is ridiculous. It's just silly. He's too fast. like, Badard is not that kind of a skater.

Badard's the shot, McDavid's, the moves and the skating. They're very different players. But when it comes down to it, they are uniquely gifted, super high-end, hyper-competitive, big-name stars in important markets. You know, Edmonton, you know, Americans might laugh, but that's an important market for the NHL, especially since McDavid got there. It's got the potential to be a big deal going forward. It's two Western Conference teams. You know, maybe they start seeing each other in the playoffs. I think that's the best case scenario.

And if not, you're still going to get excited every time the two Conners are on the ice together because you just don't get to see that. Look, I've been doing this job for 12 years. Every time I get to see McDavid, it's exciting to me. I think that people are looking at Bedard right now. In Canada, I know that McDavid Matthews is a big deal. I hate to break it to you,

and nobody down here cares about that matchup. It doesn't really carry much weight down here. But Bedard being in Chicago, maybe that's the one that really catches the public's attention. You bring up geography, and it's a shame that for geography's sake, Connor Bardard doesn't play in Vancouver because if you had Vancouver versus Edmonton

as the foundation of this, you already have a natural, born-in sort of rivalry where you have Canadian teams who might not like each other anyway, and then you have the present versus the future. It would just be so much easier to do. And you bring up a really important point with the fact that people in the States

don't really care that much about a McDavid versus Matthews situation. We're talking about a player who, is on his way to being the next best great American player behind Patrick Kane. Patrick Kane probably has that title right now. Austin Matthew should be the next person waiting, but because he plays in the Canadian market,

Edmonton, Toronto is just not sexy for American viewers. Let me clarify. And let me clarify. I'm not like saying that they are right to think that. It's sad that Americans can't get excited about Canadian hockey teams. It's just a matter of fact. There are very few of us that will, like, I'll watch the hell out of an Oilers Leaves game,

but most of my countrymen are not. But for whatever reason, it seems like in terms of marketing, Edmonton Chicago is an easier play or could be a better play to get casual fans in compared to an Eminent Toronto. It's just fascinating to me. Right. I mean, you look at, you know,

Badaard is, since he came into the NHL a couple of months ago, he's, you know, been on the Pat McAfee show. He's all over ESPN to a degree that he wouldn't be. Like you say, it would be great if you were in Vancouver. The NHL would strongly disagree, and it's no market against Vancouver. You can't have Matthews, McDavid, and Vodard all in Canada. That would be a marketing nightmare for the NHL because of what I just said, because Americans care about American teams for the most part.

You know, the fact that he's in Chicago and not, you know, Anaheim or Columbus, the fact that he's in one of the biggest markets in the league really matters here in terms of marketing. I thought it was great that TNT had a, who did they had? They had the Panthers against the Stars as their national game of the week last week. That's awesome. We never get to see teams like that. He's going to see Chicago and Boston and Washington and Pittsburgh, the same teams over and over and over. So the fact that Padar's in Chicago just means he's going to be on more people's minds because Chicago is a bigger deal in the NHL because of what happened over the last 15 years.

Good point. I hope we get to a point where we don't have to think about a big market being the play for everyone to get to get everyone to watch and people could just enjoy teams as they are. Like the NFL, right? The NFL, you put like a Kansas City Green Bay matchup. Those are two small towns for the most part, relative to New York and L.A. And they'll get 40 million viewers because it's football, right? I mean, that's what, that's the dream scenario for hockey is that Dallas, Florida is just as good as seeing New York, Boston.

Of course, Kansas City Green Bay has the whole fact of, you know, Taylor Swift's, there's a chance you might get a Taylor Swift sighting. And I know, that to your point, Kansas City Green Bay. would have been a more appealing or would have been a very viewable option well before Taylor Swift existed. Yeah, but it doesn't hurt. The Taylor Swift stuff doesn't hurt. No. Do we need a Crosby, Ovechkin, like, follow up? Do we need that for the league?

Is that something that's essential? I mean, essential isn't, I mean, it's not like the league's going to fold if there's not, but you ask casual sports fans about the NHL. They know Crosby and they know Ovechkin and they know they played against each other a bunch. Like, they know that's a big. deal. Whereas I'm not sure how many people could pick Connor McDavid out of a lineup among casual American sports fans. And look, again, I don't need to be dismissive of Canada. We know we've got you. Canada's on board. Canada's in. You're good. If we're going to grow the game, it has to grow

south of the border. And the fact of the matter is your average person who really loves football and maybe the NBA and barely pays attention to hockey has heard the name Connor McDavid, but would have absolutely no ability to pick him out of a lineup. And that's why having stars in bigger American markets helps because they'll, I guarantee you in two years, they'll know who Connor Bredard who he is and what he looks like. That's just the way it works in American sports. Before I move on to the next topic, Crosby Ovechkin, I just want to ask this one question. Did you ever find yourself in either of those two camps? Like when Crosby Ovechkin were at there like, you know, in vogue in the 2000s, I was still able to be a fan, I was watching games.

I found myself in the Ovechkin camp because I just loved the personality. I loved how energetic he was and the goals. There were everything. But of course, Sidney Crosby, Canadian board player can do everything. You could do a top 10 of his highlights that have nothing to do with goals. Seeing the puck go through his legs and taking a pass at mock speed before finishing off a play. The play in the playoffs against Jason Spetsup where he's ringing around behind the net before sitting up. I think it was Chris LaTang in the playoffs.

Like he has plays. He has at least like, what, two or three goals where he scored from the seat of his pants. Like there are people in the NHL who have like one or two goals. Sidney Crosby has found a way to do that from a particular point on the ice more than anyone, more than a bunch of people have with scoring goals. Like you could do so much with Sidney Crosby. I'm just curious from your vantage point. Were you team Ovechkin?

Were you team Crosby growing up? You know, it's a great question. I haven't really thought about it. But now that I'm thinking about it, when I was younger, I liked Ovechkin. I liked the big showing goals. I like the big person. I like that he ran guys over. And I, you know, I would buy into like,

oh, Crosby whines too much narrative and yada, yada, yada, but as I've gotten older and as I've been around the league more, I've gained such an appreciation for everything about Sidney Crosby. And it is, like you said, it's not just the goals. He's an amazing goal score. It's not just the assist. He's an amazing pastor. It's not just that he plays Selky caliber defense and he's getting better with age,

his all-around game. It's the way he handles himself off the ice, the way he's always available to reporters, the way he's always available to the community, the way he interacts with kids when there's no cameras around. I mean, I think it was Josh Yo, he did a big story on that last year of what Crosby is like behind the scenes and how genuine he is.

And I think all the people that kind of naturally were adverse to liking Crock, because A, we were sick of Pittsburgh having the best player in the world. B, he just kind of seemed like, I don't know, whiny and soft. I think everyone now has such a greater appreciation of what he is as a player and as a person. So I think the older I get, the more I get, I'm grateful that we still get to watch Sidney Crosby. Not only that, but he's still amazing. He still, we take Sydney Crosby for granted.

He is probably the third or fourth best player in NHL history at this point. And we don't treat him like that. We don't, we take him for granted. We don't think of him that way. He's incredible. And he's going to be incredible for a few more years here. That's what's ridiculous. That's why Pittsburgh did what they did, getting Eric Carlson to try to take advantage of that

window. I think that worked out. I mean, at least at the start, it's not looking good. It's not looking good. It's not looking good, Mark. Great job with Daniel Nugent Bowman on that story. Could Connor McDavid and Connor Bedard forge the NHL's next great rivalry? You can read that at the athletic right now.

Before we get to an ad break, I want to talk about some news from the NHL's Department of Player Safety. Eric Good Branson and David Perrin, coming up for the NHL's Dopp's. this weekend over some various incidents. I believe Eric Goodbranson, his instance with Nick Cousins, he gets hit by Nick Cousins, and then he responds by grappling with him. There's going to be a hearing for Good Branson that's over the phone. David Perron, cross-checks Artem Zub from the Ottawa Senators, and that, unfortunately, happened during a very scary moment involving Dylan Larkin.

David Perron is supposed to have an in-person hearing, so there is the option that he could get more than five. games. For those particular instances, did you see what happened in both of those cases? Do you think the Dops got it right when it came to, at least for the hearings that we're seeing both players get? How do you feel about that? You know, I'm frustrated because we're not talking about the dangerous hits that caused the retaliation. We're just talking about the retaliation. We're not, you know, Nick Cousins turtled and you can't punch a guy when he's turtling. That's the rule. So, yeah, God Branson deserves what he's going to get. And, you know,

David Perron went nuts and he hit the wrong guy. And he deserves what he's going to get. Those are obvious, you know, crossing the line retaliation moves. But why aren't we talking about the boarding from Nick Cousins? Why aren't we talking about Joseph, you know, kind of two-handing Dylan Larkin in the back of the head? You know, why? Everyone's like, oh, that was just a hockey player. That wasn't a hockey play.

Why do we accept that cross-checking dudes in the back and in the head is okay when it's done in the crease? like why have we not graduated past that? A head hits, a head hit. And freaking Dylan Larkin, that was terrifying. The way he collapsed, the way he was motionless, his arms kind of like, it was almost like the fencing motion, but face down so he couldn't do the fencing motion. He was out.

He was out cold in like a horrifying position. And not like, what, didn't they downgrade it from a major to a minor? They looked at the review and said, oh, wasn't that bad. Like this is, like, give Peron and Gud Branson what they deserve. Yes. You cannot, you know, a player is not obliged to fight you. So the fact that Nick Cousins went down and turtled, he's allowed to do that. You can make fun of them all you want or whatever it is you want to do.

He is not obliged. It is not legal to fight a guy who doesn't want to fight. So give out those suspensions that are surely coming. Maybe by the time we're doing this podcast they might come through because it's going to happen. They both got hearings. But we're not talking about, what about the Vander Cain? Dangerous, dangerous hit that he had on, on who is he? Jonas Brodine. So we've got two really nasty looking boarding plays, one by cousins, one by

Van der Kaine. And we've got, you know, even if it looked kind of innocuous, if you knock someone out, you hit them pretty hard in the back of the head on Joseph. And we're not talking about any of those three guys. We're talking about the guys that, quote unquote, stood up for their teammates and all that, or, you know, in God Branson's case, stood up for himself. That's what's frustrating here is there should be a lot more than two suspensions going around. We got to get these board. boarding plays out of the league, they are so dangerous. These guys are so big, so strong, so fast. I mean, you could really do some long-term damage to a person

when you're hitting them between the numbers along the boards like that. And stop cross-checking people in the head. It's not allowed. Even in the crease, that's not supposed to be allowed. Why officials allow it and have allowed it forever is beyond me. We've seen Andrew Maggiapani earlier this season get suspended for a cross-check in the back of the neck. And I know we got a match penalty after that happened,

but he got another game after that. Here's my beef with the Nick Cousins boarding instance here. It's one thing to make the initial contact that he did. And you see Good Branson and his head veer towards the boards. And already that looks like a scary play. It's the fact that he makes that initial contact. And then he kind of like turns his body into Good Branson to kind of just basically close up the gap between Good Branson's face and the board.

That's what's scary to me about that play. and you can't have that in the game. You need contact in order for the sport to thrive. That's part of the game. It's always going to be a part of the game. But for Nick Cousins to do what he did and to just full on make that hit worse, I don't think that should be allowed.

I don't think you should be hitting a guy like that and then basically turning yourself into him to smother him along the boards. I don't think that's a safe idea. Not at least if you're going to put him in that vulnerable position. Right. Neither rest is saying to take physicality of the game. I know people are like, oh, you're soft.

the game soft. That's not what this is. There's a difference between an open-eye shoulder to chest hit from a guy who had his head down or put himself in a vulnerable position than there is of smearing a guy's face along the glass at full feet when you're a 200 pound wrecking ball of a human being.

That's a different thing. We don't want guys to get hurt. And, you know, the Gudd Branson one, this, I don't know if I've seen this brought up. What's the concussion spotter doing there? He went, the Gud Branson went down and he was down for like seven, eight seconds.

Then he just like magically popped up. It was like, was he wait. I don't know if he was waiting for a whistle. He was drinking it or what. But then he popped up and went after the guy. Shouldn't he have been pulled off the ice for a concussion test after that? You know, after you get hit like that and you do get your face smeared along the boards, it seems rarer and rarer these days that we see guys involuntary pulled off the ice by the

concussion spotters. We used to see that happen a fair bit when it first was initiated. And I don't think we're doing much to protect these guys in almost. sense of the word. The suspensions don't protect them. The way the hits are called don't protect them. The concussion spotters aren't protecting them. You know, these people are worth a lot of money. They're not worth show hay money, but they're worth a lot of money. And you think that they would want to protect them a little bit more. But we just seem to make the rules like more and more lax and put guys in more and more danger. I don't understand. All right, back at it here

on the athletic hockey show with Mark Lazarus, Julie McKenzie here. Before we get to the mailbag, John Tavares of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Two points away from 1,000 of the Toronto Maple Leafs play tonight. Man, I got to say, bringing up this topic, I mean, John Tavares is a great player, and him reaching the 1,000 point mark would be notable for us to do. We especially have to bring this up because the Toronto Maple Leafs are playing the New York Islanders tonight,

and the idea that he could get two points to reach 1,000 against the team that drafted him and has some lingering feelings over his exit would be very delicious. In Elmont, too, right? The game's out on the island, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Good God. Oh, man. I would love to know your thoughts on this tantalizing possibility that John DeVaris could reach a thousand points against the New York Islander faithful. Okay. I got to qualify this, that I am uniquely prepared to answer this question.

I grew up an Islander's fan. I am from Long Island. I am from Long Island. Those are my people. I do not disavow them. Sometimes they make me want to, but those are my people and I was one of them. So I do, I stand by them. This is, this is, for unbiased observers, this is absolute best case scenario.

For John DeVaris, this is the nightmare scenario, right? Like a thousand points is a huge deal. He, if this happened almost any other, like if Patrick Kane had a milestone and he came back in the hated redway, uniform and he got a mile, like his 500th goal or whatever it is, it would be like a 20-minute standing ovation in Chicago. Now granted, he was kind of pushed out. He didn't just abandon the team, which Tavares, you know, did to New York. I get that.

But Islanders fans are built differently. There's an inferiority complex that I know all too well. I'm a Mets fan. I grew up an Islanders fan, a Knicks fan. How would you do that to yourself? I had the Giants. I had four Super Bowls from the Giants. I was set.

it's there's there there's something unique about the islanders fan dna that they went through i don't think people especially like younger fans who uh who might have come into the league in the last 10 15 20 years understand just how pathetic an organization the islanders were from the late 80s until i don't know five years ago like this was the like whatever you thought of the clippers whatever the black hawks were in the early 2000s the islanders were worse they had mike milbury as their GM and they were just trading players left and right, giving out the worst contracts, 15 years to Rick DiPiatro,

10 years to Alexei Yashin, just always making the wrong moves, always trading the wrong guy for the wrong prospect. They sold their team to a guy who didn't have any money. I was waiting for you to bring up John Spano if you don't know the story of John Spano. Watch the 30 for 30 on it. It was a great one.

I remember watching that. I remember that edition of Newsday. I remember reading that exact story. Like, it was wild. the most pathetic organization. And everybody, they were playing in a rink that was just, I love Nassau Coliseum. I grew up in Nassau Coliseum. I miss it to this day.

I was so excited when I got to go back and go to one more game there when they went back after leaving Brooklyn and before the UBS arena was built. Love it. It's a shithole. It is the dumpiest of the dumps. I once go, did we get to Nassau Coliseum like five something years ago? And it was me and Chris Cook and Tracy Myers

just a Blackhawks Islanders game. And I'm like bragging about the Coliseum to them. I'm like, oh, man, you know, everyone always makes fun of this place. But there's not a bad seat in the house. And as I said, house, I sat down and the chair broke underneath me. Not even kidding. That's Tracy Myers about it. It was hilarious and fitting.

Like, this is what Islanders fans dealt with for so long. It was so bad. So when Tavares just jilted them and left them for Toronto of all places, that leaves a scar. and I think most fan bases could get over that, but not the Islanders. They finally had a true star for the first time in decades that wasn't going to get traded and he left. He left.

So they are going to boo the shit out of him. They're going to boo and they're going to boo. They're going to throw pajamas on the ice and dumb stuff like that, probably. There's going to be, you know, bed sheets and pillowcases. Who knows what it's going to be. It's going to be unfair to Tavaris, who is a grown man who's allowed to go and chase his dreams wherever he wants. You know, if you want to go get a job somewhere else,

you're allowed to. I left Long Island to go to college. It doesn't make me a banded Long Island. Look, they're going to boo him and it's going to be hilarious. But they are not, like, I would, I would be shocked. I would love to see a spontaneous, like, you know, they boo and boo, like he gets to two points. They boo and boo and boo and then all of a sudden a spontaneous ovation erupts.

And they're like, turn face on him. That'd be amazing. I'm not ruling it out, but there's a lot of emotion there. Like, New Yorkers, Long Islanders in particular, they harbor a lot. We don't hold it in. We let it out. We speak our mind and we let our feelings out.

I don't know if you've noticed. I haven't lived on Long Island in 25 years and I still do that. I talk with my hands. I'm a little too loud. I talk too fast and I say more than I'm supposed to say probably. So let them feel their feelings, man. They got feelings and they're going to feel them. My introduction to how wild islanders fans could be was what I did.

a show I no longer do anymore Zone Time with Yahoo Sports and we had an episode where we, I forgot why we had to break up the Islanders but Lou Lamarillo came up and you know about that policy he has where his players can't have all this facial hair and stuff and beards and all that

and this one guy we had on the show just like tore it to Lou and that ruling I had Islanders fans and my mentions for weeks just telling me about you Toronto guy you don't know anything which is fun I'm not a Toronto guy but they just like Montreal guy. Yeah.

exactly but people just care to just ignore that but they just saw like four dudes just four people just be like oh you Toronto people you don't know anything John Deferris is not going to win anything blah blah blah like like I just felt like wow like this is crazy the first Islanders game at Barclay Senate the first regular season game was against the Black Hawk so I was there for that and they did they there's no press box there there's because there wasn't supposed to be hockey there so there's no hockey press box the union you obviously can't sit court side of the hockey game so they just kind of had us in the corner like inside, like a tunnel you walk through to get to the seats, they just put up a couple of tables. And that first game, they had no security for it.

They didn't think about the fact that we were just going to be among the fans, which normally would be fine, I suppose, but like, it was a little weird. Well, some, you know, Islanders fan double fisting beers. He had a can in each hand. He just comes up behind me and he literally leans over and he looks over my shoulder and starts reading aloud what I have written. Because I got like, I was working for the Sun Times with him. I had a running game story going.

It was like the third period. I have something at the horn. So he's reading aloud what I wrote. And then he goes, dude, this sucks. You suck. And he just leaves. Those are my people. Those are my people.

He looked over your copy. It was just like, this dude sucks. Dude, you suck. No, no. Oh, yeah. How did you like, I mean, you're your people, but you were, you restrained yourself from turn around and be like, what do you go do? Like, you got to fight with these dudes at some point.

I thought it was the funniest thing I ever heard. Oh, my God. I thought it was hilarious. Some 22-year-old New York MOOC. It was great. Oh, man. You know what? Like, I don't want Islanders fans thinking that I dumped on them or anything like that.

I've got no geek with you guys. I want no beat. Go into the comment section of any Dom story, any Mac and Doe story. And it's all Islanders fans feeling disrespected. This is ingrained in them. So Tavares, of all people, brings out that from the depths of their souls. And it comes screaming out of them. So let them feel their feels.

I get it. I understand. I have a Tavares jersey in my closet back home because my wife bought it for me for my birthday, like two months before I got the job covering the NHL and was therefore never able to actually wear it. I've actually got a Tavares jersey. So if anybody wants it. So if you were still living in Long Island right now, you'd be at that game, like throwing that jersey on the ice. You would have put that in some bonfire by now.

I still have my accent. I mean, it's been, like I said, it's been 25 years, but I would, I would still have that, oh my God, that accent I had as a kid. Oh, my God. I talk to like Tony's the Prano for some reason. You're from Jersey. I don't even know how that came about it. I would be so. I can picture you being a bobster.

Like, I, like, just turning off, just like peeling back the curtain here. I like to call Mark Lazarus to kick a shy Iraq because he's the last person you would ever expect to have that title. So to picture Mark Lazarus with some kind of Tony Suprano-esque accent does not compute in my brain. It comes back when I talk to my mom or when I curse a lot. I'm incapable of cursing without slipping back into my Long Island accent.

It just sounds so much better with a Long Island accent. A good F-bomb with the island accent, oh, it's good stuff. I don't know if we could get you to do F-bombs here. What I will get you to do instead is to help me go through these questions we got in our mailback. If you want to send us stuff, the athletic hockey show at gmail.com, we also have a voice. You could also send us voicemails at 845-445-8459. I want to get to this one from Dan. And this will allow us to talk about Shohay Otani, who went from the Los Angeles Angeles.

It's Toronto, right? It's Toronto, right? Toronto. I hear it's Toronto. I think it's a very sensitive topic for certain people. I should mention on TSN 1050 in Toronto tonight, they will be talking to Robert Heriavec, the guy who was actually on that plane.

That's producer of the year's stuff right there. That is award caliber programming. Yes, they are going to talk to him later. tonight on a network that's not our own. But anyway, Dan writes to us watching the Otani sweepstakes unfolding. Clearly this was sent before they unfolded. And seeing last year's Cy Young winner, Blake Snell taking his time, why is it that so many top NHO free agents sign on day one of free agency? The bidding war

is over by lunchtime while baseball free agents sign after a long road show exploring every option. That's easy because everyone in Canada has a codet. and they want to get there. Like, that's really, honest to God, that's what it comes down to. It's like, everybody who works in the NHL is a Canadian with a cottage. I think it's given out like health care up there. And I'm really jealous, frankly.

And, you know, they want to get this done as soon as long as this to drag out. Everyone in the hockey world really treasures August. August is the month where you just vanish, where you don't have to do anything. Like in July, you still got like a prospect camp, maybe a fan convention. You know, there's a couple of things here and there. but for the most part, once you get to like mid-July through the end of August, the hockey world is closed. You can't get anybody on the phone because they're too remote.

You know, you have to send like a carrier pigeon to get anybody. You know, God bless Pierre LeBron every year on July 2nd. He tweets, I'm out of here, guys. I hope to attain that status where one day I can just tweet and I'm gone for two months. It's the best. He earns it and it's the best and I want to be able to do that. But that's what the hockey world is.

Like, honestly, on July 2nd, it's over. If you're not signed by noon on July 2nd, you're going to wait a while. I just, two things here. One, you said forget so that New York accent just like randomly came out your last answer, which I've just, I had to hold back from just laughing about. Also, during your answer, I was trying to think of other guys who may have taken their time. Didn't Brad Richard? Brad Richards, there was a year he was like the big thing at free agency.

And I think he at least took a weekend. There's always a few, right? I mean, there's always a handful of guys that are taking up. It took him a month before he got signed. But for the most part, like 95% of these moves are made on July 1st or July 2nd. That's just kind of how it goes. And, you know, it's, you know, there's like a week or two between, you know, where whether it's legal or not, teams are talking.

I mean, you see like at noon on July 1st, all of a sudden there's like 80 releases coming from teams. Those all weren't negotiated at 12 o'clock in 01 seconds, right? So a lot of this is done in advance. It's just, it's the way it's done in hockey. I love it. It's, you know, you had everyone at the draft. I don't know, maybe this will change now that not everyone will be at the draft at the same time. I think a lot of this stuff has worked out, you know, when every agent and every GM is at the draft at the same time just a few days before free agency.

So maybe that'll slow things up a little bit. But it's nice. Just rip off that band-aid. Like, why drag it out unless you have a good reason, like you're rehabbing from an injury or you're trying to pit teams against each other? There's always going to be a few of those. but for the most part, this stuff's done by midday the second day, and it's fantastic

as a writer, let me tell you. One comment coming in from Jerome Menard, Cap is causing it, only a limited pot so everyone wants to get paid ASAP. And it's the truth. Yeah, he's not wrong, because if you wait a few days, teams have already spent the money they've got,

you know, so you can't, you know, waiting for more money, it's not really going to work if everyone's doing that because there's only so much to go around. Also, you mentioning that every Canadian is entitled to a chalet. I'm jealous. That gives me another reason to hate boomers even more because they clearly skipped out on millennials and Jed Zetter's after the fact.

Anyway, that was a very Canadian interview. Yes, which is very funny because we had an ad for Z biotics earlier. Do you want to say Zed biotics? Yeah, I see, you know what's funny halfway through recording that ad? I was like, should I be saying Zed biotics? I don't know. I just wait with Z because, you know, America. Anyway, from Sean, Wings fan in Denver.

Wow, that's a very unique situation for you. Wow. Because you there 20 years ago, that's the question. Yeah, I hope you didn't get beat up outside of Pepsi Center. I had to write about the discussion about icing on a penalty. I think it's cool that the PWHL is experimenting with rules. We did get into that with Ian Mendez last week. I know less than anyone about running a sports league,

but this seems really smart to make them stand out. However, I cannot understand how one would think it's a good idea to enforce icing for the team that took the penalty. So essentially one of the rules that the PWHL is going to try it out, I'm just going off my memory here. If you are defending a penalty, you are not allowed to ice. They're doing, they have rules in to be called. Yeah, you're going to essentially have that.

Anyway, I cannot understand how one would think it's a good idea to enforce icing for the team that took the penalty. I actually think it's an excellent part of the rulebook. It's not as black and white as the team with the penalty shouldn't have an advantage. It's all about the balance. A man advantage is already huge. The chance for a power play goal will be way too high. And for a two-minute minor, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. I also think it's better because it differentiates from the man advantage when a goalie is pulled.

It was a long, long, anyway, go ahead. he brings up a good point like I've always been in favor of the idea but when you think about all right well if you take away the ability to just chuck the fuck down the ice you know you're gonna have power plays converting at like a 50 60% rate right like it's that too much like I don't want it to be like a penalty

in like field hockey or soccer where it's almost a guaranteed goal every time like I don't think people want a penalty be to be that locked in it's like watching the oilers frankly it's like oh god there's a penalty they're going to score like I don't think people want it twice to that level but I love the idea of experiment. I want to see what, you know, baseball has, you know, tried the pitch clock in the minors before bringing up, the bigger bases in the minors. They always do that. I want to see the

HL try this for a year. I want to see all penalties be majors. I think that's the right way to goose scoring a little bit. So, you know, you get the full two minutes, no matter how many goals you score on it. I think you're not going to, it's not going to make it crazy. It's not going to have like 12 to 11 games as a result of that, but you might get another goal or two per game, which is kind of what we're looking for, right? We want it to be four to three, five to four. That's the kind of game we're looking for, as opposed to two to one or three to two.

Or that's what the NHL is looking for. So I'd like to see that first. I do, I do. I have always found the little hinky that, you know, oh, we screwed up, but now we get this sweet advantage of just being able to chuck the puck down there's, especially, you know, if you take a penalty late in the game and you're nursing a one-goal lead, I'd almost want the penalty just be able to ice the puck,

and that's the best way to kill time. Like, there's an inherent... advantage you get being short-handed, which is, you know, kind of oxymoronic, but it's not, it's not wrong. You got to try it, though. You have to try it in the ECHL and the AHL, maybe in the juniors, and that's how you see if this stuff's going to work, just like we're seeing with fighting in the juniors, where they're starting to abolish fighting in some ways, and we'll see what kind of impact that has, and if that eventually should trickle up to the NHL. You got to experiment in the NHL. There's too much money on the line, but you can sure as hell

experiment in the AHL. They're doing teddy bear tosses and stuff. It's fun down there. So Ian brings up every time we talk about rules about the idea that if you have games involving teams who are eliminated from playoff contention, that's an ideal time to try out rules with those teams. Because at the end of the day, they're not competing for a playoff spot, but you have like a Chicago versus. No, you can't. You can't have that. You can't do that because the officials will be going from like a game that with one rules and then the next day they're doing a content. No, you can't. Ian's insane. Sorry, that's not happening. You know what's funny? I didn't even think about it that way. My first thought always goes to, even if those teams that are out of playoff contention technically don't have anything to play for, could you imagine you lose out on like a top three guaranteed spot in the draft because you played in some game where all of a sudden the two minute minors stay for the entire time and you allow like three or four power play goals? Like, how does that work? Like, look, I talk about meaningless hockey all the time. God knows I've covered a lot. lot of it the last a handful of years. But there is no meaningless

NHL game. There's too much on the line. There's jobs, money, draft positioning. There's just too much on the line to ever score around with a regular season game that way. No. So, all right, cool. So we've confirmed that you're not crazy. Because Ian keeps to bring that.

Oh, okay, you're not crazy in that way. In any case, Mark, we appreciate you hanging out for as long as you could. You got to get on that flight to Edmonton. To Denver. first because we lost our direct flight to Edmonton, one of the saddest thing that's happened in the last few years.

Damn it. It's hard to get to Canada now, man. You guys are like shutting the border down here. I don't know what's going on up there. You won't let us in anymore. I can't really blame you. Okay. I'm going to get out to get you out of here before any border jokes start to come up on

this stream here. Safe flight to Edmonton. Catch up with your most soon, Mark. Thanks so much, Ryan. Jesse Granger, I see you on the stream, my man. How are you doing? I'm doing great. How are you, Julian?

You know what, man, I cannot complain. I have to drive the show without Ian Mendez today. You know what? It is what it is. Like I've mentioned off top of the show, I think you need some time to listen to the new Nicki Minaj album. I'm pretty sure there's some other excuse, but it is what it is with Ian Mendez.

But Jesse Granger is here with us with BetMGM. Let's get to some hockey talk, shall we? Teams currently out of the playoff picture. I know just just before you got in, I mentioned the Edmonton Oilers. I know they've won seven in a row. row. They're technically still out of a playoff spot right now.

Just pulling up the wild card standings here. The lightning are tied for a playoff spot, but the New Jersey Devils below the Carolina Hurricanes would also count in this. Calgary Flames, that's the team I cover. They're kind of in that little mid territory, but they're also out of a playoff spot. Maybe they go on a run. They get in.

Of all the teams currently out of the playoffs, which of them would you bet on them to make the playoffs? I mean, if we're going just thought like if we're just ignoring the odds and just saying you can have any of these teams, which one do you want? I think I'm probably taking the Tampa Bay Lightning. They, yes, I think that people have forgotten how good that team is. They went the beginning of the

season without Andre Vasilevsky and anyone that was wondering if Andre Vaselowski is actually the best goal in the world or if he was just playing behind a really good team and that kind of boosted his stats. I think these couple of months of hockey have proven that the lightning need Vasilevsky more than he needs them. And I think that to me, that's the most obvious, safest option for which teams because you look at Tampa Bay, they're 27th in safe percentage right now. There are only a handful of teams worse than them in safe percentage. And they're at 885. Andrei Vasilewski has never in nine years playing in the NHL. He's never finished below a 910. And that 910 only happened once. He's never finished below a 915 other than that one season. So that's basically telling you they're going to,

finished in the top, not just above 27th in safe percentage. They're going to finish in the top 10 in the league in safe percentage by the time this season's over. I think that's a pretty safe bet. So if you tell me that a team that's already right on the cusp of the playoffs is going to jump that high in save percentage, to me, the lightning are a lock barring some unforeseen injuries, which can obviously derail any team. But assuming Vasilevsky and the big guns there in Tampa stay healthy, I think

that team is as safe of a pick as you can find in terms of the teams that are just on the outside looking in. What do you think? I got to say, like, Tampa Bay, there's just something about that team and everything that they've endured over the last few years and the coaching and the players that they have. Like, Kitakutrov is leading the league and score. And we have not provided nearly as much hype on that type of year that he's just having. I don't know why, but he leads the league in goals. He leads the league in points. He's seven points clear of JT Miller,

eight points clear of David Posternak, just quietly going through an MVP caliber year. We have not hyped that up. Remember, you bring up the fact that this team has had to go through all these games without Andre Vasselowski. Where's the love for Nikita Guthroff? There's something about this team that until I literally see the wheels fall off and everything just, just be done with this team,

I cannot count them out in any situation. So when you say that there are a lot to make the playoffs, I don't take that as a shot. They just have everything set together. They just need to go out there and do it. It's just ultimately just the playoff mileage that they've endured over the last few years. That is obviously going to be a question.

You see how other teams in the Eastern Conference could take advantage of that. The New York Rangers are looking as good as they are. But in a playoff series, I still have a hard time picking against Tampa Bay. could you imagine if the Tampa Bay Lightning continue to play at the pace that they're at this year. Boston's still good and Florida and Toronto are still good. And you have to enter the playoffs.

Even as a top seat, you have to play Tampa as a first round opponent because they're a wildcard team. I do not like that. I do not like that. And you know what's crazy is the sports books and the odds are not as convinced on the Lightning as you and I are. And I don't know, the listeners. If you're out there and you believe in the lightning like I do, they're only minus 130 to make the playoffs. So $130 to win $100 for the lightning just to make the playoffs. And I like to, like sometimes, especially if you're not a gambler, those odds, oh, minus 130.

What the hell does that mean? I like to look at the implied odds, which is basically just a mathematical equation of, okay, so what does 130, what are the sports books saying? And what that means is they're saying the lightning have a 56.5% chance to make the playoffs. according to that odds. So if you believe that there's a higher than 56% chance that the lightning will make the playoffs, then that's a good value to bet. And to me, that's pretty crazy.

I mean, 56%, that's a lot lower than I would have thought. Like you look at the implied odds for, let's look at some other teams that are just like you mentioned, just outside. So like New Jersey is below Tampa Bay and has more room to make up to make the playoffs. They have an implied odds to make the playoffs of 70. 33.7% according to sports books. They're minus 280 to make the playoffs. So heavily favored to make the playoffs, even though they're behind New Jersey. Carolina, similar. They're minus 300 and implied odds of 75%, 75% to make the playoffs. And Edmonton, who you mentioned, the red hot oilers, they haven't implied odds to make the playoffs of 79%. So almost a lot according to, like, it's minus 380 for the oilers to make the playoffs. And it's easy to see why. They win seven in a row. They're coming off of. the Western Conference final appearance, or sorry, second round appearance. And I think that just the star power on that team makes them, the sports books are not

going to let everyone get a bunch of great odds on that team to make the playoffs. But I do find it interesting that Tampa is so low compared to the other teams. I guess maybe there's the feeling out there that they're getting old and like you said, maybe the wheels are starting to fall off. The one that the team that really interests me in terms of the odds is Pittsburgh. not a team you mentioned, and I think not a team that, like, when we think of, okay, who's going to make it that's out, like Carolina and Edmonton and New Jersey are like the easy ones that they're in the playoffs every year. Pittsburgh, they're plus 145 to make the playoffs.

So it implied odds of 40%. So basically a toss up. Do you think this team can make the playoffs? It's pretty close to a 50-50 toss-up. And Dom's odds, I like to compare Dom's odds of teams making the playoffs to the implied betting odds. And he's got them right at 50%. So there's more optimism with the penguins than there are the lightning in terms of the odds. What do you think?

If you had to take one team to make the playoffs, are you taking the penguins or the lightning? I'm taking the lightning. But I'll say this. I felt very 50-50 about Pittsburgh's chances entering the season. Just Sidney Crosby's playing out an elite level and it looks like he could still do that for a little while. He still has Afghani, he still has Crystal Tang. you put an Eric Carlson in the fold. You just have to hope your goaltending holds up.

And that goaltending question has stymied so many playoff runs for the Pittsburgh Penguins over the last few years. They became a difficult team to trust as a result of that. So for a team like Tampa Bay, who, yeah, they went through the injury with Andre Vasselowski. He's back now. We have that expectation where he's going to be able to correct himself. At least that's how I see it. For the Pittsburgh Penguins, I felt like there was just questions around this team. about whether or not they should even be in this position where they should be

trying to just get as much as they can out of out of this core but at the same time Sidney Crosby at his age of getting Malkin at their ages playing as well as they do like you don't just waste those years they want to be Pittsburgh Penguins for life you kind of have to go for it so it's what makes it so surprising that the power play that they have with Eric Carlson has not looked good it has looked awful and and even so of course because of all those factors. Yeah, I could understand why you'd be very on the fence about putting the Pittsburgh Penguins in the playoffs. But also, again, my points about the Tampa Bay Lightning until I see everything fall off, the wagon, the carriage, the wheels, everything. John Cooper just takes

his ball and he goes home and he decides he's going to be in a real attorney. Like, I'm not counting these dudes out. I just can't do it. Like, I need to see everything go down. I know they lost in the first round last year. I know how it went with Toronto. I need, I need, I need, I need, more proof. I need more proof. So my answer to that question is going to be, I have more confidence of the lightning making the playoffs. I do want to ask before we kind of flip and do the reverse and get you to answer about, hey, what about teams currently in playoff positions that you can see falling out? I do want to get back to Edmonton just for a second, just because of the fact that they are playing as well as they've been playing. Connor McDavid has shot up the scoring

rankings. Jack Campbell's been in the minors, just trying to get them. going and they've been able to survive with Stuart Skinner and Calvin Pickard as their goaltending. Just from your vantage point with the Emmitts and what do you make of the fact that they've been red hot and it looks as if and yeah, I get it the odds. We're in their favor to make the playoff in the beginning of the year, but this would be pretty astonishing for them to do if they make it work, right? Like for them to be at the bottom of the standings and then make it in? Yeah. And the thing is, like I was just looking at the goalie numbers the other day. And Stuart Skinner is still dead last in the NHL and goal saved above expecting.

And that's not like dead last out of 32 starters. That's dead last out of every goalie that's touched. Like we're talking 60, 70 goalies that have played in the NHL. He is, there's no one of below him. And, and yet they're, they've turned this around without the goaltending completely turning around. Like they're, they're just outscoring teams. And obviously McDavid's been awesome.

But I think, I guess my thoughts on the Oilers are this team is not as bad as we, like they looked early in the year. Like that's obvious. But I also think they're not as good. we thought they were going to be coming in. I still haven't completely said, okay, the Oilers are back. They're a true Stanley Cup contender.

I think that going into this year, I would have probably picked them to win the Pacific over Vegas and over the Kings. Just because of the way they ended last year, they looked really good. I mean, I covered the playoff series against the Golden Knights. The Oilers were really good. They pushed Vegas by far more than any team in the playoffs.

Like Vegas steamrolled Florida. They steamrolled Winnipeg. They steamrolled Dallas. Edmonton was the only team to really. really put up a good fight against them. And I thought another year of that kind of core together, I thought Stuart Skinner was going to have a much better start to the season. So my ex, I guess my, my overall opinion of Edmonton is still lower than it was in the beginning of the year. I think they're a good team. I think they're going to make the playoffs. I don't think they're as good as Vegas and

L.A. I think Vegas and L.A. are the class of the Pacific Division. And even though the oilers are kind of making that run and they're, they're going to be like, that's a team you don't want to play in the playoffs, because they're dangerous because they have two guys that can single-handedly win the series if they just turn it on for four games. But I just, this team is not as complete as we thought they were. The glaring weaknesses are showing up and they have more holes than I think I thought coming into the season. I have to agree with you there. You also make a really good point about LA being the class of the Pacific Division.

They're so good. And it's not just the fact that they have those pieces all around. the fact that they're winning those games on the road. They're the best road team in the league. Tell you what, you know one place in the NHL where winning on the road will serve you well, the playoffs. Because if that, because you talk about the Vegas Golden Knights being a team, you don't want to play against.

You talk about the Emmonson-Norlers being a team. You don't want to play against with those two players. Los Angeles Kings as a road team, like they're looking like a real. I have to say, I underestimated the Kings this year. I think part of the reason they're so good on the road. Like Vegas was a really good road team last year. And I remember Bruce Cassidy constantly saying, well, we're deep. And when you're deep, road games don't really matter because you're not worried about

matchups. I can put whatever line I want out there against whoever, and I'm not worried about it, whereas maybe teams that are a little more top heavy, they need their matchups. So they need to be at home to win. You look at the center depth for L.A. I mean, Copatard, Dano, Pierre-Doubois, like, are there, is there a three, a top three center group better than that in the NHL? Like, when you've got that solid of a top three centers, I think, think to me that's why they're so good on the road they they're they don't worry about matchups i don't care what line you put out against my lines we're going to beat you so uh yeah kings are impressive they're deep camp talbot's playing out of his mind uh that team is that team's really good also

quentin byfield looks like he's arrived as well he scored a really sick cool the other night for the l a king's against smutrock against monday's 20 points in 25 games he's already one point away from his career high in points for a season he had 22 uh last year with the l a king's in 53 games he is already one point off his career best. Anyway, the LA Kings, we get it. They're really good. Let's look at some teams that are in playoff spots right now that could fall out. Looking at the Eastern Conference, seeing Philadelphia and Washington in those top

three spots in the metro, I have questions about that. The New York Islanders are tied on points with the Tampa Bay Lightning. In the east, I have questions about that. Fewer questions in the West, Nashville and Arizona are in playoff spots right now. but they hang on to those. How do you see it, Jesse? Yeah, so the flyers, I didn't include them because by points percentage, they are out right now. They've just played more games than the other team.

So the flyers are kind of in there. And they're a surprise and they've been better than we thought. And they're playing a really structured, they're doing what Tortorella teams do. They try to take the hockey out of hockey and they win some close games because they just don't let you do anything with pressure and energy. And, hey, a team that's not as talented, that's how you have to win. and they found ways to do it. So they are better than we thought.

But I didn't include them because they're out on points per cent. But the three that are in the playoffs right now that are, if you look at the odds, are underdogs to make the playoffs. They are plus, if you are, if they're in the playoffs right now, but if you want to bet them to make the playoffs, you still get plus money. And that's Washington, Arizona, and Nashville. Washington's third in the metro.

They've played a lot better. That's a big part of that is Charlie Lindgren has come in. And I don't even know if. he's Darcy Kemper's backup anymore. Like, I guess in title he is, but Lindgren is third in the league in goals saved above expected. He's been phenomenal. And like, they're starting to play him a lot.

He's got 10 starts already now. I think Kemper only has 14 or so. So they're, they're kind of 50, 50, and Lindgren's been very good. Can he keep that up? Probably not. He's 30. He hasn't been this good his whole life. And suddenly he is.

Maybe he's turned a corner. Maybe he just had a hot streak. But I think Washington, they're a team that's plus 210 to make the playoff. right now and their third place in their division. So the sports books don't expect them to keep that spot. And then Arizona, they cooled off a little bit after their little heater of beating all the Stanley Cup champions, which was pretty cool. But that team plays tough.

I just watched them shut out the Golden Knights a few weeks ago. The coyotes are not an easy out every night. Like I could very easily see them sneaking into one of the last playoff spots in the West or just being a pest around the end of the season to the teams that are trying to make it. And then there's Nashville who, U.C. Soros is carrying that team on his back. He's like, he's been carrying. Yeah. But I don't, I don't have much faith in them just because of the other teams around them in that central division. And I think the Pacific, right now, the Central has both wildcard spots with Arizona and Nashville. Obviously, we expect Edmonton to be a little better in

the Pacific. I think the Pacific's going to end up getting one of those wild cards. So I don't think both Arizona and Nashville can make it. Of the three that are underdogs to make the playoffs, despite being in it right now, Washington, Arizona, and Nashville. Which one are you, do you think has the best chance of holding on one of those spots? I think it might be Arizona. I thought that the Arizona coyotes maybe needed one more year of seasoning. This might be it.

This might be the year they actually make the playoffs. We talk about, we look at how good of a player Clayton Keller is, but Michael Carconi's been good at five on five. Miceas Micelli has been getting love since last year as a rookie. They have some good pieces in Arizona. They're coached well with Andre Turini behind the bench. They might have it. They might have something.

We could see them as buyers at the deadline and try to get some pieces that could help them make the playoffs. The Arizona Coyotes, in spite of everything going on with the Mullet Arena, their future and all of that, they might actually be putting together a really good hockey team. I don't trust the Nashville Predators. We kind of mentioned it before. UC Soros is carrying them. It's one thing to get hot in like March or April, and then you propel yourself to a playoff spot to do it from early on in the year

and hope that that that sticks. I have questions about that. I have questions about their overall future, too, about what they really want to be in terms of, remember last year they sold at the deadline, and they still almost made the playoffs. I have questions about that. The one thing for those two teams in the West, though,

I'm not sure about St. Louis as a team. That being said, Edmonton, I think at this point, considering what the Pacific has been looking like all year. My expectation is that they're going to find a way to take one of those two spots. And I think I'm closer to seeing the National Predators fall out of a spot compared to the Arizona Coyotes. We'll see how that goes. Washington is fascinating for me because I didn't think that they were going to be a playoff team.

I thought they were already outside of that playoff window. I thought we were just going to be watching games where Alexander Rovetka was just going to chase the goal, the goal record. And that was it. But it's really interesting to see that Charlie Lindgren has stepped up the way that he has. I remember him in Montreal. There was just some consistency issues, but I think there were some elements of him being a good goalie that were just there. He's now seeming to put it together in Washington.

You know better than anybody that the development of goaltending is just, it's such a weird process. It takes time before these guys can be really good. You don't expect like a 21-year-old goaltender to be the guy right away. So I'm not surprised that Charlie Lindgren is actually seeing success at 30, but it's fascinating to see that in the combination of everything, going on there has resulted in them looking as good as they have to be in a playoff spot for philadelphia i mean john tortarella you said it with the way that he

kind of coaches his tactics the end of the day he's trying to get teams into the playoffs maybe it's ahead of the schedule for for the rebuilding efforts but i'm also not i mean no i'm still pretty surprised that philly's that good like really like in that division i yeah that's a bit wild for me but yeah you mentioned you mentioned the division and i think that's why we I feel the same way. I feel like Washington and Philadelphia have a much higher chance of falling out. And I think that has more to do with the teams that are pursuing them. Like when we were talking about the teams that are out that we think could jump in,

they were almost all in the east, right? Like it's New Jersey, it's Carolina, it's Pittsburgh, it's Tampa. There are so many teams that are really good teams that are sitting outside the playoffs that you just feel like you're going to make it. Whereas in the West, you look at Arizona and Nashville and you say, okay, well, who's chasing them? Well, the Oilers are on fire. and we think they're going to make it,

but how many other of those teams that are out of it in the West are going to make a push? And right now, the answer seems like not many. So the one thing, the team that's interesting that's sitting atop the central right now that is not in the, we haven't mentioned in this is Winnipeg.

And I think a lot of people would not have picked Winnipeg to make the playoffs at the beginning of the year. Now they're tied with Colorado and Dallas up there for, I think they're tied. Last time I went to the standings, they're right up there in atop the central. Hela Buc is doing what Hela Buc does. He's awesome every year.

That Jets team is better than we thought. And obviously, Connor getting hurt last night is huge. And how long he's out will have a huge impact on whether they can make the playoffs or not. But I think it's interesting that we've gone from at the beginning of the year, it was like, we thought they were going to sell everyone on the whole team in the off season. And this team's just going to be completely gone.

And they kept everyone, basically. And now they're looking like a playoffs. off team and I don't think anybody's like ready to say they're going to fall right out of that. I think we've kind of just accepted them as a better team than we thought. Yeah, that's a really good point. Like I remember hearing the news about Mark Schifley and Connor Hellibuck signing those extensions and being like, really? Are you sure you want to do this? At least to start off the year, they're proving everybody that doing that was the right decision, at least for this year, if they find a way to hold on to this because there was a point last year where they were the best

team in Canada and they fell off in the second half of the year. They need to find a way to keep that going. But right now, they're atop the central division in terms of points percentage. So yeah, I don't know if I see the Winnipeg Jets falling off, Jesse. It's a very fascinating conversation to have, but you bring up a really good point two in the east. A lot of those teams like Caroline, New Jersey, there's a lot more of them pursuing those teams in playoff positions. Man, good work today.

Thanks for hanging out with me these last few minutes. Jesse Granger here for Bet MGM. enjoy the rest of your day, man. Thanks so much, dude. Yep, thanks for having me. Jesse Granger, there he goes, and that's going to do it for today's edition of the Athletic Hockey Show.

Thank you so much for tuning in. We'll be back tomorrow. Ian Mendez should be back. Please leave us a five-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts. From right now through to the end of the year, you can gift a one-year subscription to the Athletic for 1999 or a two-year subscription for $39-99,

when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. Follow us on YouTube as well. YouTube.com slash at the athletic hockey show. Ian and I are back tomorrow. Michael Russo will join us as well. We'll have an interview with Brock Besser of the Vancouver Coutts.

Thanks so much for listening. Bye.