The Athletic Hockey Show - Could Adam Fox be an Olympic snub after his 4 Nations performance?

Episode Date: February 21, 2025

With the 4 Nations Face-Off in the rearview, speculation about roster changes for the Italy Olympics has begun in earnest. Max, Corey, and Scott talk about which NHL prospects could challenge 4 Nations players for their spots in Milano Cortina. Plus, to close things out, the guys break down Scott’s top 100 drafted NHL prospects ranking.Hosts: Max Bultman and Corey PronmanWith: Scott WheelerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Scott Wheeler and Corey Prondman for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Guys, I don't think we could have gotten a better outcome of that Four Nations tournament than we did last night. The overtime game winner for Connor McDavid, tight game the hallway. Scott, as you're watching this play out, what's going through your mind seeing the way this whole tournament went and then certainly the way it ended? Well, I thought it was an unbelievable seven, eight days for the NHL and for the NHL product and for hockey. I don't think from top to bottom the tournament could have played out any better than it did. Certainly the two USA Canada games were the highlight, but we forget both Ketruck Brothers scoring two goals and the way that the tournament started.

And I was blown away by the crowds. I was blown both in Boston and in Montreal. They were on their feet last night in Boston. It sounded like it was electric in the building just through TV. And then the hockey was as good as I think any of us have ever seen in terms of the level of play. I was kind of joking with a couple of buddies that I watched one of the games with who are Leafs fans. All of you guys have to go back to watching Pontus Holmberg and David Camp play now. And it's going to be a different feeling as people return from watching that level to

watching their NHL clubs and the teams that they root for because there there is it wasn't just one or two levels above what we're used to seeing in the NHL and even in the Stanley Cup playoffs. This was the highest, highest, highest level of hockey. So that in and of itself, like we're talking about Kyle Connor getting scratched and Adam Fox struggling to get minutes. Like these are premier, premier players. These are Norris Trophy 50, 40, 50 goal players who aren't even. effective or playing prominent roles.

So that piece of it from top to bottom, I thought it was huge. And then it couldn't have finished any better for Team Canada with McDavid being the one to score it after. What I thought was a bit of a quiet game. He had a couple of dashes, but I thought McDavid was sort of easing his way into the game, maybe a little bit too much.

And you started to wonder, is he going to get that big moment in this tournament? And then lo and behold, he gets it in the most emphatic way possible. I thought McDavid was in part neutralized just because, like, good God, could that USA Blue Line skate. Like, you look at how good a skater Faber is, Rowensky, Sanderson, Slavin. Like, you know, they had Faber out there a lot there against McDavid. And obviously, McDavid is the fastest player in the league. And he is faster than those guys.

But they can really move too. And you never really felt like they were seriously threatened by his speed. during those games. Both of you guys have covered international tournaments like this and have some good experience knowing how much you do and don't take from an event like this. It's obviously at the end of the day four games for each of these teams, but they're four games at the highest of levels. And Corey,

I wonder how that factors into what you saw out of a guy like Adam Fox, out of a guy like a Jake Sanderson who's on the rise. What do and don't you take away from their performances here? I think you want to make sure you don't. don't get too over the top over a couple of games. But it's a similar analysis to what you think of when you're projecting guys from, say, lower levels to the NHL, from the NHL and to the NHL postseason is every time you go up competition levels, the games get faster, you get more physical, they become more intense.

And some players can project well into those environments and some not as well. and I don't think it's really a surprise that Jake Sanderson with just how he lead a skater he is, with how competitive he is, that he comes in as a guy who wasn't even on the initial team, and by the end of the tournament, he's one of USA's better defensemen in the game. And I think with Adam Fox,

I think USA is really going to struggle with him right now. Because keep in mind, obviously, Quinn Hughes wasn't available in this tournament. He would have been a power play guy for them. Zach Rewski was one of the first power play. and you didn't have Charlie McAvoy at the end there because of his injury. But I think you look at, you know, favor is going to be on this team next year. Slavin's going to be on the team next year.

I've got to imagine Jake Sanders and has at least played his way into contention for this team next year. I think you look at how Fox struggled with speed. I mean, any time McDavid or McKinnon was out there, he looked under duress. And I do wonder whether he's on the Olympic team next year. and I don't care that he won a Norris trophy recently. Like, it kind of looks like a guy, you know, when you watched him with the Rangers, everyone understands his brain is extremely elite

and he's incredible on the power play. But if he is not running your power play, Rewanski is running a power play and maybe Quinnieu's runs the power play, then what does he do for your team? And then the answer is, I don't know. Maybe he comes into the seven day. I think you can technically bring eight defensemen to the Olympic, so he could be with the team.

but I would really struggle based on what I saw at that tempo, trusting him. He was on for two of the three goals against Canada last night, including the OT winning goal. I would not have him on my Olympic team right now. Scott, what do you think on that one? Because I do think this is going to be one of the real flashpoints, he's the USA Blue Line.

You basically have coming back, assuming health, you'll have Hughes McAvoy, that slave and favor pair is not getting broken up anytime soon. Werenski led this tournament, and scoring. And I tend to agree with Corey that Sanderson has played his way potentially into their six. They're starting six. And that makes it tall, tall task for Adam Fox.

And I got to imagine Luke Hughes, at least in the conversation. I don't know if he can make the team, but he has to be in the conversation, I think, by this point next year. Yeah, I think push comes to shove that Adam Fox, if we're talking about eight defensemen, that Adam Fox will probably still be a part of the fold, he's still going to be playing 25, 26 minutes a night in the NHL next year and one of the top defensemen. in the league. But I think Corey's point and to your point, Max, you start to count the names and you quickly come up with six that feel like better fits. So maybe he enters the tournament as your

number seven or your number eight. Maybe Luke Hughes plays his way in. The other player who I thought struggled. So if Quinn is coming, Quinn is adding and you're subtracting one guy from this current group, I thought Noah Hanifan struggled as well through stretches of this tournament. So maybe Noah Hanifans among the candidates to come out in favor of a player like a Luke Hughes. If Luke continues to progress and has a positive season next year in New Jersey. But I think all of Corey's points are well made. Like he looked, he looked small. He looked like he was struggling in some of the physical confrontations.

He looked like he was struggling getting out to pucks in the corner. I thought in the first two-thirds of last night's game that Canada was first touch on a ton of pucks, rebounds, second chance opportunities, sort of chip and chase moments. And I think he's one of the players where you look at him. And if he's turning back to get pucks, he's not turning back to get pucks as effectively as Jake Sanderson is or as Luke Hughes is. So if you want to lean younger, if you want to give those guys a look, I could absolutely see both of those players playing on a third pairing over what you're looking at in Adam Fox. And I think ultimately you keep the slave in favor pairing together. You swat one of McAvoy or Werenski with Quinn Hughes.

the other one's a really good number five for you, and then you rounded out with a Sanderson or a Luke Hughes or that kind of a thing. So that's, it's hot water, I think. It's a sticky situation for Adam Fox. And that's what these tournaments reveal. And I thought they did the same for several other players. I thought Travis Sandheim really struggled for Canada and stretches in this tournament. I thought USA's fourth line, and we can talk about it,

but USA's fourth line was, ultimately became a non-factor. And I think if you're looking ahead and you look at Tage Thompson, what Tage Thompson could bring in a similar role, it seems like a no-brainer to bring a Tage Thompson over a Vincent Trocheck now or a Brock Nelson now, right? So it's going to, things are going to look different.

And on top of that, guys are going to get hurt. There's no guarantee that entering next year's tournament that all six, seven, eight defensemen that we just talked about are even healthy. So things will shake loose in that way as well. One thing I thought was interesting is that both Jake Sanderson and Thomas Harley were not on the initial rosters to start this tournament, but they both come in as injury replacements, and they both end up outperforming several players, Sanderson in the case of Hannifin and Fox, and then Thomas Harley kind of leapfrogs guys like Sanheim and Pareko in the pecking order, despite the fact they weren't even. even on the initial roster.

I just thought that was a fascinating development. And that just shows that you never know. Sometimes you think you make the right choices. And then the game started, you're like, oh, maybe we made the wrong choice. How about Thomas Harley, too? Second full year in the NHL. And he steps into a mid-tournament to a best-on-best event without a practice under his belt and assists on the opening goal of the final.

Like, it's an impressive, impressive week for Thomas, if you're a hockey Canada. I think that's interesting with the young guys too because I think about some of the young American blue liners. And Corey mentioned Luke Hughes. I also think about a guy who's kind of on the complete opposite playstyle spectrum from Luke Hughes. And that's like an Alex Vlasic. And it seems to me a little ambitious to start talking about him in Olympic conversations. But if you're looking at a specific kind of role, I don't think it's crazy to kind of be monitoring him pretty closely if that's the kind of player USA wants. And we kind of maybe disrespected Brett Pesci, too.

because I think he was definitely the next man up there too. Right, exactly. And so if you're looking at certain roles, there are threats, I think, to Adam Fox, and that's going to be a really interesting storyline to monitor. Stick him with USA for a minute here. Scott, you talked about their bottom line, basically. Brock Nelson, Vincent Trocheck, Chris Kreider,

older players that I think they're on the age watch, certainly for the 26 Olympics, but yet they did play all of them over Kyle Connor. And I think that's going to be a fascinating storyline. here. Are they looking for a certain kind of player? We can talk about, you know, Clayton Keller and Jason Robertson being left at home. Tage Thompson, I think, has a little more projectability to that bottom line. But I even wonder about a guy like Matthew Nye is getting into that conversation if you're looking at that kind of player type down the lineup. Yeah. And frankly, the way that, not to get sidetracked,

but the way that Clayton Keller has developed his playoff the puck over the last couple of years, I think Clayton Keller could potentially now fit into a fourth line role in a way that five, six years ago, we never would have talked about Clayton Keller in that kind of a role, similar to the way that Seth Jarvis fit into that role and similar to the way that sort of doesn't have the defensive vacuum of Sam Bennett or Anthony Sorrelli. But that sort of style of player, I think he's a harder worker now than he was sort of coming up and he's taking some important strides. But absolutely, I think if you're looking at replacements for those guys, first of all, I thought.

I'd be surprised and he was a fourth-line player. He's not going to kill penalties for team USA. I don't think that. I'd be surprised. but I don't think they don't I don't think they necessarily need a Clayton Keller to to kill penalties for them to play in their bottom six like they've got they've got some guys who can kill penalties I'm not worried I wouldn't be worried about that if I were them Austin can kill penalties some some of their guys higher in the lineup can kill penalties but they're they're going to have to figure out who those who those role quote unquote role players are for them because you mentioned it like Kyle Connor is leading all

American skaters and in tied with Jack Eichlin pointing this season. Like we're talking about one of the most prolific offensive wingers in the NHL and just couldn't find a role because of the way that they built their two power play units. You wonder about if Kyle Connor can't find a role, I don't think there's a role for Cole Caulfield potentially on this team next year either. So it's going to come, I think it'll come back to Clayton Keller and to Tage Thompson. I don't think Matthew Nyes is maybe quite there for me. Matthew is having an excellent, excellent year, but he's shooting 25%.

He's playing with two of the best players in the world. And I think Nyes is going to come back down to Earth a little bit, but could Nise be a heavy, heavy sort of injury roster fill guy? Absolutely. So those are the decisions they're going to have to make because I think it's clear that Brock Nelson wasn't up to the task and that Vincent Trocheck maybe isn't a natural fit for that role either. Let's take a break right there.

We'll come back. We'll do the same kind of conversation on Team Canada. All right, we're back. And we're going to stick on this theme of young players that we're watching for the 2026 Olympics. And certainly that dovetails in with older players who may be on the bubble. And a guy who comes to mind for that for Canada, Scott, is Brad Marchand. I thought probably didn't pop as much as you're hoping the finals in his home city. You'd love a big vintage Brad Marchan moment there.

Just not one of the guys you noticed. I think between him, maybe a Mark Stone, there are guys that we're going to be watching closely. And on the flip side of it, I think the question is, is either Macklin Celebrini or Connor Bedard ready to put themselves in conversation to take one of those roles? Different kinds of players we're talking about there. I think if you start to look at this team Canada up front and you wonder about the guys that might come out, it maybe isn't the names today that we would have anticipated coming in. I think that's where Mark Stone and Brad Marchand, these established, established long time, excellent top of the lineup, star players in the NHB. Stone's been one of the premier two-way wingers in the league and a Selky Trophy conversation guy and Marchand's Marchand, one of the faces of the league in stretches

throughout his career during Boston's sort of real heyday five, six years ago. That is going to be a difficult, a difficult thing for them to navigate because I think Hockey Canada loves Brad Marchand. I think he loves to play for Hockey Canada a lot like Drew Doughty. but you do wonder about, okay, who slides in? I know they haven't been high on Nick Suzuki, but I think Nick Suzuki will probably play his way into the mix. There were guys that we talked about all tournament long

when the games got physical that weren't a part of this group, whether that's Tom Wilson or Zach Hyman and his ability to play with anybody and go to the net. There are a lot of names, and you start to wonder about maybe rotating the older guys out. And that's not something that I expected to be saying coming out of this tournament. And I thought coming into the tournament that a player like Sam Bennett maybe looked a little bit out of place on this roster after how cold he'd been for the last couple of months. Really, from once Canada named their roster until the puck dropped on the tournament, Sam had been horrible in Florida. He had not looked himself.

And then when the puck drops, I thought Sam Bennett was extremely effective and at times even impactful on the forecheck and getting to those loose pucks that we talked about off the top and all of that. So those guys, the Sorrellys and the Bennets, the guys who maybe don't have the skill or haven't, don't have the notoriety of a Mark Stone or a Brad Marchand, those guys I actually thought acquitted themselves quite well. So you start to look ahead. And I think you're, I think you're on the right track. Like, I think it's stone and it's Martian. Those are the guys from this group that you start to wonder about. And then the flip side, absolutely. Is Ken Connor Bedard plays way into the mix?

Ken Macklin-Sellbrini plays way into the mix. Those are the natural sort of young pieces that you that you zone in on. Stone was a top six left wing for this team. So you do wonder if there's maybe a top six role to be had. Sam Reinhart can play the left wing. So it would be possible for Sam Reinhart to swap sides. And then you could insert a right shot guy like Connor Bedard. But I'm not sure, frankly, as as sexy as he is, is a name and as talented as he is.

I'm not sure Connor is going to be ready for it this time next year. Now, there's a lot of hockey to be played in the second half here and into the start of next year. But they didn't trust him at the World Championships last year. I'm not sure they even trust them all that much in Chicago in terms of defensive assignments and being able to win the battles that are required against a heavy team like Team USA in an event like this. And that's where I go to Macklin, who does have that ability to win battles and the strength over pucks and could play sort of up and down the lineup in a way that Connor Badard can't. If you're bringing Connor Bidard, he's on your power play.

And if he's not in your top six, he's your 13th forward. Like, there's just no scenario. I don't think where Connor Badard's playing with Brandon Hagel or Anthony Sorrelli or Sam Bennett at next year's tournament. So he's playing for fewer roles, I think, than Celebrini is. You guys keep mentioning Stone. Do you guys not like his tournaments? I didn't think, I know he's old on the older side. I didn't think he looked out of place on this team.

No, I didn't mind his tournament. It's just it's the age and it's the health. And I think these are things that, you know, One year for him is different than one year for Connor McDavid or Nathan McKinnon right now. I thought his pace revealed itself last night and in both of the U.S. games. Yeah, but he's always been slow, though. Like, so, but like, I thought he looked fine for me. Like, I didn't think he's like, you stood out.

But I didn't think, I didn't look at this. I look at Marchand and I looked at and I say a year for now, you might really be on the downturn here. And I think Stone's probably still on this team next year. Certainly that, you know, there are very few defensive wingers that can match what he does, his stick is really good. There's ways that he overcomes the skating. I just think he's in that territory, especially health-wise, where it's at least a conversation.

And there's going to be one or two of these spots that open up, whether it's him or somebody else. I think the argument for Celebrini, and I have no idea what Team Canada was thinking, but I just know in the weeks leading up to the tournament, I was, you know, just talking to scouts and executives running the NHL. I think they always thought that if Canada had a couple of entries, there was a chance Celebrity was going to get the call.

I think Sheifley was the first man up and then it was going to, I think Selbrine was among the next couple of names that I think would have been considered. I think the argument for him is he's exceptionally offensively talented, but he can also start on the fourth line. He's a really good skater. He's really competitive. He can kill penalties. Even if you don't love that as a teenager in that role,

he can provide energy, he can provide offense. There's a lot of things he can do, Whereas if you bring Bedard, he has to be a power play guy. He has to score for you. Otherwise, you know, maybe when he's 23, 24, more physically developed is different. But right now he's not winning battles against the best USA defenseman. So he has to score. You have to trust him at even strength.

So I think that's where they're going to balance that. And I think it's where Celebrini could potentially win that argument. He mentioned Nick Suzuki, who I like. I also wonder whether maybe a Robbie Thomas could fit his way into this conversation this time next year. He's been a really good player for St. Louis, probably a better skater than Suzuki. You know, so I look at, you know, I look at Sorrelli, I look at Hegel, look at Bennett, and I wonder maybe could Thomas take one of their jobs at his time next year. Suzuki, too, could be in that conversation.

So just like you, just like USA, I think those fourth liners on Canada look a little vulnerable. He hasn't had a great year, but I wonder about Wyatt Johnston as well, if he can continue to progress here. And into the future, I think that's, he's going to be a big part of this, right? seems like a very natural autumn six center for Canada for a lot of tournaments in the future, just a matter of will it be 2026 or not, right? So that's one to watch. On Canada's blue line, anyone else besides Harley that you think is really worth monitoring over the next 11 months? Owen Power. Yeah, okay. They don't seem high on him, but I still think Evan Bouchard has a chance to play his way into the mix, especially if you're talking about eight defensemen. And I thought

they struggled to, Sanheim and Pereko in particular, I thought they struggled to move the puck. Now, they were missing. We've talked so much about Quinn Hughes and Charlie McVoy, Canada was missing. Petrangelo and Shea Theodore and Josh Morrissey. Three of their top four or five defensemen in this tournament were absent for Canada as well. So you start to add up those names and it gets pretty crowded. But I do think Evan Bouchard has at least a chance to be a number seven guy who you can bring in for your power play if one of the top guys gets injured kind of thing. Yeah, I think Bouchard's going to struggle from the same reason Fox is going to struggle to get into that lineup is that if McCarr is healthy,

he runs the power play and it's like, well, what's Bushar doing on your team if he's not running your power play? When you have all those other guys we just named and maybe some other guys we have even gotten to yet. So I think that's going to be the struggle there. But you're right. I mean, I think Canada's blue line would have, they got significantly impacted by injuries. And that team, it would have been really interesting to see how they would have looked

of all of their guys were healthy. To me, it's Noah Dobson is the guy that I'm watching. I think he has, you know, maybe not the level of Bouchard's puck wing, but he can move the puck. he can contribute offensively, but also we know he's steadier defensively. I think coaches will feel way better about a Dobson on their third pair. He's not having a great year right now, though, so we'll have to see how he is going into next season. Yeah.

I thought McKenzie Weger belonged in the conversation, has played both sides, is very comfortable, actually prefers playing his offside. So the ability for- Can he skate at this level, though? I think McKenzie Weger gets around the ice just fine. Like, if you're comparing the way that he moves to Drew Dowdy or some of the guys that they brought here. I don't see it as an issue. And then, of course, we can't finish the Canada dialogue without going to the goal. And I think Jordan Binnington, maybe that was the story of the

night for me. It was Jordan Bennington delivering what I think Team Canada probably envisioned as the reason for giving him the net is that in a big game, he came up absolutely massive and overtime. He's got to be the favorite to start going into the Olympics now. But in the rest of that crease, I mean, Logan Thompson's names out there, McKenzie Blackwood. How would you build Team Canada's net, Corey, I don't know. I mean, that's going to be a question for every Canadian team we're talking about at the junior level, at the men's level, projecting them forward. It's like just a bunch of question marks. It's really going to depend who's been good over the next six, 12 months.

And obviously, there's more of the player assessment than just like their numbers. You have to assess the traits to. And obviously Bennington's a talented goalie. Aidan Hill is a talented goalie. I mean, but it's a tough situation. Like the Samuel Montaubo is on this team is ridiculous. Like he's a fine goalie. But like it's, it's, I mean, maybe we'll see how I really can't tell you.

I mean, we know who the names are. You mentioned the candidates of names there. But I mean, some of those guys, none of those guys are good enough that I can guarantee you they're going to be like legitimate starting goalies next year. And there's no way they're going to fall off. There's no way they'll, you know. So it really, I think. just depends how everyone's first half to go next season.

All right, let's take a break right there. We're going to come back. We're going to talk about Scott's top 100 drafted prospects. All right, we're back. And Scott, over the Four Nations break, you came out with your top 100 drafted NHL prospects. Some really good stuff in there. Maybe not the most surprising because we had seen steadily your farm rankings come out. But I think there were a few guys that was interesting to see where exactly you had them.

And I want to have you and Corey debate a few of those players. And the first one is Gabe Perra. who's a top 10 player for you. I think he was outside Corey's top 100. It feels like there's a really good conversation to be had there about what you're seeing and what Corey's not. So let's start with you. Why is Gabe Bro a top 10 prospect for you?

Keep in mind with the criteria. I'm including NHL players under the age 23 in my criteria. So there's like there's a sizable gap there, but it's not as sizable as you just made it out to be. Good point. U23 for Corey versus purely prospects, mainly outside the NHL for Scott. So there is a difference there.

but save to say he's in a higher territory than Corey would have had him. Yeah, I've just been, I've been bullish on Gabe and I haven't seen anything since the draft that has dissuaded me from remaining bullish on Gabe. Is he a 5-11 average-sized winger? Yes. Has he also set the NTP points record, had a 60-point freshman season in college. Is he leading as a sophomore Boston College in scoring? Also, yes, and I think the way that he has done it has continued to sell me on the belief that it's going to translate.

I think his skating is much, much, much better than it was given credit for in his draft year. People described him as a bad skater in his draft year. I would qualify him as an average NHL skater and would argue potentially even that he's slightly above average. I think he moves around the ice absolutely fine. and then on top of that, I think he's one of the most intelligent offensive minds outside the NHL in terms of prospects. He thinks the game offensively at an elite level. He sees plays that other guys don't see. He's extremely talented on the puck.

He's got the finesse to make plays and put pucks into space for his linemates. He's got a natural release that he can beat goalies with. He can beat goleys in tight with his hands. He's got power play upside. and I think at the end of the day, I think he's going to be at least a second-line winger in the NHL who makes plays and contributes on your power play and is a talented top-six winger.

And I think he's got a chance. I truly believe that Gabe Pro has a chance to be a star in the NHL and that we might see him post-70-75 points in the NHL kind of thing. Like I think that's the level of talent and offensive mind that we're talking about. And I think that can make up for maybe not being the biggest, or strongest or most explosive player, I think he thinks the game at such a high level that it's not going to be an issue for him.

And he's going to be able to play with talented, I think an important thing to highlight is he's going to be able to play with talented players. Like he's going to be able to think at the same level of whether or not he's playing with an Artemianan, they both have played left wing. So it's obviously complicated by that. And there's great depth on the wings in New York.

So that's going to be a factor. but he can think at a level that the star players in the NHL do. And I think he'll be able to play with them both at five on five and create offense at five on five and certainly on the power play. A name I think of with Perrault, I kind of think of a comp is Perfetti. Would you agree or disagree with that? I think he's a much better skater than Perfetti. Similar in style in terms of the way that they think the game and the offensive smarts.

But I think he's a, I think Perfetti's a weak skater. I don't see that in Gabe. Okay, I don't see that personally. So who's the comp that you would use for pro in the league then? I think he's got a chance to be Martin Nietzsche's type in terms of the way that he thinks the game and the puck scale. Oh, Nietzsche's one of the best skaters in the league. Come on. I think he's got a chance to be that caliber of offensive player in terms of the talent level.

I was going to say, well, I just think they don't play it anywhere. like for me. Like Nietzsche's like a high, high end skater. That's where I would push back there. Evgeny Kuznetsov? He's like 6-2, isn't he?

I thought he's a little bigger. He's like center, better skater for me too there. Yeah, I just think we see that the player is real differently there because I was going to like ask you like to compare like what do you think back?

You have ran over Beckett Seneca, you remember Rexelson and Pelka. I was curious to see like what do you think Seneca can project says in the NHL? What do you think Sennickend and Pelka projects as the NHL? But I think we just see Perrault like, real differently. Like, to me, like, Perrault is like a 5-11 below-average skating winger who competes hard

and has exceptional skill in hockey sense. I mean, that's why he went 20. If he was a high-end skater like Nett just was with all that offense, he would have gone top five, top 10. Doesn't mean he can't hit and become a great, great player. I mean, I look on that team. I don't think Artemmy Panarin is an elite skater, but he's got off-the-chart skill in hockey sense.

He makes it work for him. So maybe he becomes that in the league if he really hits. But that's my concern there is I just see him as like a second, third line, high-end playmaking winger who I think is going to struggle in the kind of game we watched yesterday. How difference is skating from where you saw Lucas Raymond skating at a similar age? And I think Raymond's got a better shot, but just in terms of the skating and the playmaking. I think Raymond's a little bit more agile. but I think you're closer to that one there, for me at least.

If you're looking for an optimistic comp, I think is where I'm going, is that's the kind of guy I think that we're talking about. I think that would be I for me, but I think that is at least a more realistic name for me in terms of the play style. I should answer his question regarding Seneca and Sandy and Pelica. Those guys were, I believe, 9, 10, 11 on the list. I like Beckett a lot. Beckett has grown on me a lot. I think Beckett warranted going in the range where he was taken. I think Beckett is a dynamic, dynamic, dynamic,

dynamic offensive talent as a winger. I think he's got a chance to break open games. I have not seen Beckett be as consistent over the last two years as I had seen Gabe Perrault be in the same two years of Gabe Perrault's development. I think Beckett has at times really come and gone in games. I think at times his effort level and his confidence, competitiveness has been an issue. Now, he's made progress on all of those fronts. You watch Oshoa General's games these days and you'll see him forechecking and finishing his checks more

consistently than he was a year ago. But Gabe has been, like it's been three years now of Gabe being the most one, if not the most productive player in his age group at whatever level he's played at, then one of the one or two or three most productive players at every level he's played at. And I think there have been times where he's been Boston College's best player for stretches in seasons, including this season and last season when Will Smith was a part of the group. I think there are times where he's the one who's creating the offense on that line and has been the one creating the offense on that line with Ryan Leonard and Will Smith, both at the NTDP and at Boston College a year ago.

And it's just been consistent enough for Perot that I feel a little bit more comfortable that on a night in, night out basis, he's going to be making, plays inside the offensive zone. I think Beckett has that, that dash and that dynamic quality where he can crack open a game, maybe with an individual play at a higher rate than Gabe Pro, but in terms of the sheer volume of plays that they make, I haven't seen Beckett make 15, 20, 30 plays in a game. It's four or five big ones. And then there have been stretches in Beckett's game throughout the years where I've thought he's been poor to pedestrian and has really struggled with his identity as a player.

So is Beckett maybe a slightly higher upside as a six-foot-three guy who's a better skater? Maybe. But I think they're in this. They're in the same ballpark as a prospect. Do you think of Anaheim offered Seneca for Perrault, the Rangers, are saying no? No. Okay. All right.

Let's go to another name here. Andrew Crystal is a guy. Scott, I know you've liked him since his draft year. He comes in at number 29 for you. Corey, I don't think he made your U-23 list here. So let's start with Corey on this one. What's your hesitation, I guess, at this point with Crystal? Because the production continues to come.

We saw him have a pretty good training camp. Where's your hesitation? So I just kind of worry how the feet's going to work when he gets to the league. And I know he had a good preseason, but the preseason is not the NHL season. And I just, he's got exceptional skill, exceptional hockey sense. He's super, super talented. And he could make it. I might be wrong.

He could be a legit middle six wing. I can see the argument for him to be that to be quite honestly. Like, I think if I had to redo that, he probably should have been somewhere on there. He probably shouldn't have been left off completely. But I don't know if he's going to be more than like a third line wing who's going to have some issues at even strength with the pace and the physicality.

He's a really wonky-looking skater, especially for his size. He's agile. Like he can get, he can evade pressure. He's very elusive in the office. offensive zone, but I have some concerns how it's going to translate. You know, you see a lot of deadly good junior players who just can who can rip up the

CHL. But, you know, hate to keep bringing it back. I didn't see Andrew Kristol in that game last night. And I just, that's, that's my concern is when he gets to the really, really fast levels, I don't know how he's going to handle that level. I think there's, I mean, if we're talking about my top 100, there's probably only going to be seven, eight kids that are going to play in a game like that in their career. So I don't think you necessarily have to be at that level in order to be an impactful, talented top six. Like you said middle six, I think Andrew Kristol is going to be a top six winger in the NHL.

And I think his skating as with Perrault is better and has improved a lot over the last couple of years. You watch him this year in Spokane. he's taking guys wide, he's creating breakaways for himself. The skating has been an area that he has worked extremely hard at. He's come into his body like he was a bit of a kid when he was drafted and he's come into his body. He's worked hard at in the gym. And now when I watch Andrew, I think he moves around the ice absolutely fine.

So I think there's probably a distinction there in terms of the way that Corey and I again view the skating piece of the puzzle. But I can't think, like outside of Nick Patan, man maybe. I can't think of a player who's popped offensively like Andrew has at the junior level. We're talking about a kid who's if he was healthy and played the full season this year was going to have 140 points. Now, Jordan Dume is another one, but I think Andrew's a much better skater than Jordan Dume. And Jordan's had the health issue to deal with and the hips and everything. And I actually think Jordan's played quite well in the H.L. Since getting back a month ago.

but Andrew is like I think it would be a bigger surprise if he doesn't make it than if he does. He would be a one of one or one of two or three case study if he doesn't make it given the way that he has produced. And I think he's a better skater and a more competitive kid than he's been given credit for over the years. You've got like a couple of guys listed right above him that went really high in a recent draft. But Casper, he's got him at 29. Casper's at 31. Willander's at 34. Same kind of argument.

Do you think if Vancouver was offered to do that trade, do you think they're saying yes or no to Willander for Kristall? I think in most of those transactions, the team that is being offered, the trade is almost always more inclined to keep their guy, especially with prospects. They'll trust in their scouts. They'll trust in the player that they took.

They've developed that player. They're more familiar with that player. So I think in most of these scenarios, there's a huge gap in the prospect. I actually thought that McGrady for Yeager trade was a pretty unique one for both of those teams to sort of move on, although Magrorty was sort of forcing his way out. I'm not talking about job security though right now. I'm not, I'm not, if you go the other way, if, if, if the Red Wings offer the Washington

capitals, Marco Casper or the Vancouver Canucks offered, offer Wollander to the capitals, I'm not sure the capitals with what they've seen at a Vanderer Crystal over the last year and what they saw out of him in camp. I'm not sure the capitals are making that move for Tom Mawander, who's a good two-way college defenseman and has been a top player for Sweden. Tom Wander's probably going to be a number four defensemen in the NHL. Is that more valuable as a two-way transition guy who can really skate than a top six potential winger if they believe that Andrew is going to be a top six winger? Like, I think it's, I think all of those teams probably hang on to their guy. I think even if that was true, I think,

most manage would still take the second pair defenseman. I think it's harder to find a second pair right shot D that you trust than it, than it is to find a skilled playmaking winger, right? Like, they're more readily available, certainly, that those wingers than those second pair right shot D. I don't think there's a lot of skilled playmaking wingers in the NHL that make plays and can play on a first power play. Like, it's, if Wollander's a five-on-five guy who kills penalties,

and plays 18 minutes a night, and Andrew Crystal is a 70-point winger, 65-point winger in the NHL. They're both probably making similar money. Like you're talking about a $6 million player, $7 million player kind of thing. So you're saying 70-point winger in the NHL? I think Andrew Crystal,

with good linemates, absolutely has an opportunity in the right role to be that kind of a talent. You're talking about a first line wing, 70 points is like leading a lot of teams in scoring. I don't think 70 points is leading a lot of teams and scoring in today's NHL. There's a lot of players playing on second lines in the NHL who are 60, 60, 70 point players. I think about like a Gus Nyquist and a Matt Roy kind of thing, right?

I think teams are taking Matt Roy if it's that. Maybe I'm too low with the Nyquist projection on, but Nyquist had some good seasons in the NHL. I think Andrew is way more talented than Gus Nyquist ever was. All right. Let's move on to two more guys. And I think this is an interesting one, Quentin Mustie and Rucker McGruegrority. These are guys that you both have pretty high. Corey, again, you have them a little bit lower. And these are guys that, you both of these guys have pretty high, Corey, again, you think, are overcoming the skating here, Scott. 70 points would have led to Washington Capitals last year to curiosity. Anyway, go on. McGority and Musty. Musty, I'm not worried about the feat with Musty. I think Musty's a good athlete who's a decent skater. Magrorty, I think, and Musty are very different skaters when you're talking about pace.

Like, I think Musty skates absolutely fine. Magrorty is a concern. The pace of play was a real adjustment for him in the H.L. To start the year and certainly through NHL training camp and all of that, Magrory struggled. He fought it. That piece of the puzzle, for Magrorty is a definite question mark. In saying that,

Magrorty is a beloved teammate everywhere he's played. He's competitive off the puck. From an athletic standpoint outside of the skating piece of the puzzle, he's a tremendous athlete. He's strong on pucks. He can hold pucks. He can make plays. He's got a very heavy shot.

His strength shows up in a lot of other ways in terms of the athleticism piece of the puzzle. And then the big thing that sold me, on sort of keeping McGority in that sort of 40, 50 range on the list was sort of his play really in the month prior to this list coming out. He really, really came on. He played some excellent hockey for Wilkesbury. He got called back up to play briefly for the Penguins. He sort of really, really impressed me in a couple of live viewings that I did right at the finish line for Pittsburgh's pool ranking when I sat down on Instat and watched some more of

Rucker after sort of having seen him play a little bit at the start of the season, I hadn't returned to him when I did my viewings for this project. And I thought he looked like he was moving around the ice better. He looked like he was figured he figured it out. He'd become a very productive player for them. He was scoring on a consistent basis. He was back being sort of one of their go-to forwards in terms of offensive zone opportunities and the power play and all of that. And that sort of convinced me that, okay, we're still talking about a 20-year-old kid. I think if the pace can come a little bit with Rutger, that he has all of the other tools that teams covet in sort of a middle six winger. With Mustie, I just think he's got a real opportunity to be a part of

the top nine for San Jose long term. I know the sharks are very high on him. And I expect that after he's done in the OHL this year with Sudbury, that he's going to go and immediately be put in a position to succeed. I think they know, in talking to people within that organization, I think they know who he is as a kid and who he is as a player. and how to get the best out of him, which not everybody who's ever coached or played with Quentin Musty has known. He's a pretty unique cat. I've spoken to a lot of people about him over the last couple of years.

And then he's at the end of the day, like Quentin Musty is an extremely talented 6'3 200-pound winger who can make plays and shoot the puck and has been a two-point-per-game guy for extended periods in the OHL and has been a top player in his age group. and I know USA Hockey hasn't had a love affair with him or a long way from it, honestly. But I think Mustie's got a real opportunity. I think he's going to continue to produce at the HL level and that in time you're going to be,

you're going to see him with that young group in San Jose get a real look. And I think he'll take advantage of it with how talented he is. How would you compare those two guys to geeky that you have a little bit below them? I think I asked him because he's on the bigger side. Like Musty, also not a great skater, like Magrory, but he's a center. He's in the league. How would you compare him to those two? And why is he behind those two?

I would say that in Musty's case, Musty is a better, I think musty's, of those three, that Musty's the best skater. I think geeky and McGority are closer in terms of where they're at as skaters. And I think there's probably a little bit more offense in both of those players. in the prime of their careers in the NHL than there is in Geeky. I like Geeky's talented talent. He's frankly a very skilled player for a six foot four forward. He can play center.

He can play the wing. But I think he's got some of the pace questions that Rutger has. And I haven't seen Geeky impact play against his peers and even coming up through junior. I didn't see Geeky take the steps and dominate in the way that Rutger did, both at the NTP and then at Michigan. And I've just always been. waiting kind of for Geiki to take that step. Now,

Geeky's had a very positive season this year. The fact that he made Tampa Bay immediately after the trade and has stuck around in the NHL is a good sign. But I think in terms of sealing that he's never going to have a ton of pace. And I think Rutger has just shown me over the years a higher level of offense against his peers. I asked that in Park against. I think there's some he's bigger than McGority. He's a center. And like his production this year in the NHL is almost simple. I think geeky's a winger. Yeah, I know.

But, okay, so even if he's a winger, but, you know, his production in the NHL this year is almost the same as McRourty in the American League. So I guess, you know, again, just ask that question, you know, I keep asking is if Tampa offered Geeky from McRority to Pittsburgh, you think Pittsburgh's saying no? After the season that Rutgers had, probably not. Okay. I'm also making, I'm making these decisions for me. Like, I'm not making them for what the Pittsburgh Penguins are thinking and what the Tampa Bay Lightning are thinking or what the San Francisco. Jose Sharks are thinking, these are my own evaluations. I think Rutgers shown me more in terms of offense over the years.

And then I think on top of that, the skating and the pace is comparable with Geeky. With Geeky, Geeky's a little bit. McGee's got a better shot, too, right? Like, you like him shooting the puck more than Geeky. Fair? Yeah. I think Geeky can shoot the puck, but I think McGrady's, I think the big edge of McGority's on the compete level.

If I had to pick a net one asset there. and compare and contrast Danny Boot to Musty at a curiosity for me, who you have again notably behind Musty. Yeah, I think Boot and Moot and Musty are comparable prospects for me. I think ultimately with Boot, I worry about just how much offense is there. Again, great shot, can shoot in stride, big kid who can shoot in stride because of that. He's a very unique player profile. there aren't a lot of players who look or play like Danil Boot.

But I think in terms of that the sort of natural offense, the natural skill in the puck, the ability to make plays for themselves, I've just seen Musti make more plays for himself. And I think the individual talent level is higher in Mustie than it is in Danil Boot. Despite Boot having a length and a comparable shot and all of that. If Mutty's on Locomotive Yaros-Laval, the best team of the KHL this year, do you think he has significantly more scoring this year than Boot does?

No, but I think he will have significantly more scoring in the NHL. I just, I think because Boots are bigger, he's a better skater than musty for me. I don't know. Like I said, that's like I think what he's doing this year, considering the limited ice time, he's getting on a top team. I think the offense he showed this year has been pretty impressive. That's why like, you know, the both big wings, I was curious to hear like how you would compare those to. All good debates.

I think we can all agree two weeks until the trade deadline. We're just need to hope that one of these trades that Corey proposed to Scott over the course of this episode actually comes to fruition just so we can see. But really good stuff all around. Me and Laz will be back on Monday for you. We'll talk to you soon.