The Athletic Hockey Show - Coyotes preparing for final game in Arizona, ahead of move to Salt Lake City

Episode Date: April 15, 2024

Ian Mendes and Mark Lazerus, along with Chris Johnston and Pierre Lebrun discuss the Coyotes relocation from Arizona to Salt Lake City, what Billionaire Ryan Smith brings to the NHL, and what the future is for Alex Meruelo and NHL hockey in the desert state. Ian and Laz track the Eastern Conference playoff race which is going to go down to the wire, they discuss if Joel Quenneville will get another shot to coach in the NHL, and Jesse Granger chats about the Colorado Avalanche's achilles heel: their goaltending, and Tomas Hertl's successful debut with the Golden Knights. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. All right, everybody. Welcome back to it. It is your Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. As always, it's Ian Mendez, Mark Lazzar is with you. Laz, why don't we just, we got to just kick off this show with Pierre and CJ, don't we? Like, that's the story. There's a little bit of news going around the league these days, yeah.

Just a little bit, a little bit. So we got Pierre LeBron, Chris Johnson. As always, our insiders from around the National Hockey League. And maybe CJ will start with you. because you are on the ground right now in Arizona. Can you just give the listeners, our listeners, the latest on what's going on with the coyote saga? Sure.

Well, look, I mean, they're obviously well down the tracks here to essentially dissolving the coyotes and selling the assets to Salt Lake City. Usually carries the same caveats. Nothing is done until it's done. And so we don't want to jump too far ahead of ourselves, but the intention of everyone involved in these talks from Alex Morello,

the coyotes owner, Ryan Smith, on the Salt Lake end and obviously the NHL in the middle as a broker is to get the deal done before the playoffs start on Saturday. I think that there's a general recognition that this is taking away some shine, I suppose, from the end of the season or certainly taking up a lot of oxygen. And I think that they would like to put it to bed. And it seems that one of the, you know, we can dig into some of the issues, but one of the issues I know that's held up the deal to this point is just to figure out the precise

language around, you know, how Alex Morello can bring a team back to Arizona, because this is not just a straight up sale. We're talking about him, you know, holding on to the copyrights of the team, the brand, the marks, all those things. And then he's going to get a window in which if he gets an arena built here that he's going to be able to bring an expansion team back to Arizona. But I think some of the language and how exactly that will work is what's still being discussed at this point. Yeah. And Pierre, maybe we'll ask you because obviously this story on Friday, Saturday, Saturday, it was constantly ebbing and flowing. And I think it's really important to understand that this is a fluid situation.

And even we're recording this on Monday morning, this could radically alter in 12 hours, right? Yeah, although I think, as CJ said, I think it's a little further down the line than even it was Friday night. Listen, the plan has really been for two weeks now as we unearthed details on this to try and get this done. Salt Lake, but one of the great lessons about reporting on stories like this is that just because you know with pretty good certainty where the league wants this process to go doesn't mean that it's done yet. It's not done until it's done. And it's a very complicated deal. And you have to, and I think that, you know, people want to be able to make relations and think. But on Friday night, you know, there seemed to be different versions of what

GM Bill Armstrong was told his players. At the end of the day, I think he was just trying tell us players this is probably happening but obviously we can't do that 100%, which is really what the NHLPA has also been messaging the Coyote's leadership group. This is probably where it's headed, but we wish we could tell you 100%. With each passing day, that's where it seems to be heading. But it's a complicated deal. As Chris talked, you know, Ron Smith is not speaking directly at Alex Morello. It's not a normal transaction.

The league is involved. There's different deals being drawn up. You know, there's the Coyotes part of C. CJ said about having a five year ago to try and finally build a rink and bring a team back. All these things are part of this package. And so it's not your run-of-the-mill franchise transaction. But, you know, it's where going to Salt Lake is the end goal here. And that's what they're working on.

And again, this morning I checked in with a source involved and said still working away at it. The Utah side of this feels inevitable. And I think we know where that's going. the Arizona side is what's really interesting to me. And the fact that does the league really have faith in Alex Marillo to be a long-term owner that they allowed him be in this position? Or is this just we don't want to get sued? So we're going to give him first right of refusal and work with him here. Because he's going to make out like a bandit if this all happens according to the plan.

He's going to make money off of this. He's still going to have a team. What's the sense around the league and the trust in Alex Marula right now as an NHL owner? Well, it can't be that deep in terms of him getting a building done, right? I mean, the reason we're in this position is because he tried and failed to get an arena district started in Tempe last year that was voted down in a referendum in May. He's looked at other pieces of land and other potential options that haven't come to fruition. And so, you know, I think in a sense, he held all the cards here because, you know, the NHL does have an ability to involuntarily terminate a franchise from an owner. But that's a very litigious path to go down as you're kind of winking at there.

And at last, I mean, that's that's going to play out through the course. it's not going to be very pretty and ultimately it's something that everyone's best interest. I think instead the league has come to him and it's my understanding the first meeting, but this only happened about a month ago where Gary Batman and Bill Daley met with Morello and started working through the options. And essentially what you're doing is you're paying him a billion dollars, which is a lot more than the reported 300 million. He paid to buy the team in 2019.

And you're giving him this right that if he does find success in that land auction on June 27th actually get a building built. You know, he actually would pay a billion dollars back to the league to get as a relocation fee or a certain expansion fee to get a new team here. I don't know how likely that is. I mean, based on the track record, you'd say not, but, you know, we'll have to see how that plays out. I just think that the league was in no position not to give him those sort of terms because

the other option was he just continued to operate the team at a Mollett Arena. You know, we're starting to hear more and more, even on the record commentary from players about how untenable, how uncomfortable that is. And so I think, you know, after this long saga, essentially in Arizona, with all kinds of different ownership groups, bankruptcy court back in the day with Jim Balsalli, I think the NHL just finally had enough. And so they're absolutely giving Morello a great deal. But, you know, that's what it's going to take to get the team out of his hands.

And, you know, basically what will be a fresh start one way or another down the road in Arizona. Are there any concerns about, go ahead, Pierre? Well, I was going to say, I think there's, there has to be a clear line drawn, whether the league would ever admit this between the league's absolute belief that that market, the Phoenix Scottsdale area, can actually be a viable NHL market, whereas the league's actual belief in Alex Morello being the owner of that team. You can't come out and say that, but those are two separate realities. I really do think the NHL feels one day that if they ever build a rink in the right place

and have the right own influence that that market, which is one of the, you guys can tell me, but I believe one of the fastest growing areas population-wise in America, especially in Scottsdale, can be a good NHL market. But they've never had the rink set up properly in the history of that team being there.

Shake of the league on the team for a while, for goodness sake. So I think it should not surprise anyone that the league actually wants to go back to Arizona the question is under which circumstances, and that's where I think we'll get less of a public, you know, commentary from the league right now because they want to clean out from Morello right now, and then we'll see where this goes.

Yeah, I think Phoenix is 10 times the size of the Salt Lake area in terms of population. I mean, this is, Salt Lake is a tiny market. Like, that is not a major city in America, so it'll be really interesting to see how that works out. Are there any concerns about the arena there? I know that there's talks of getting, you know, Ryan Smith is a billionaire you can believe in. I get it.

But I keep seeing things, and maybe Ian, you can mention you, you were down there. It's got a little bit of a Berkeley Center field where there's like, it's not made for hockey and it could be problematic that way. Yeah. And I had a conversation with Ryan Smith a few weeks ago. And their plan is they'll play out of the Delta Center, which is like Barclays, basketball first venue. They think they can get about 11,000 in there comfortably for the NHL, good sight lines. and then over the next couple of years, they're going to drastically overhaul that facility and make it a lot more NHL specific, so to speak.

But it's going to take years to get there. But I think the feeling is probably, okay, well, we would rather play in an 11,000-seat venue than a 5,000-seat venue at Mullet and then have something kind of, you know, a little bit more stable here for the next few years. That's the feeling I got now. CJ, I'm wondering, because you're down in Tempe,

you're down in Arizona. Coyote's going to play their final home game. I've heard people say, okay, if I'm like Nick Smaltz, for example, Nick Schmaltz, and there's people saying, hey, if I'm Nick Schmaltz, hey, I didn't agree to leave Arizona, so to speak. Like, what do you think the players are going to say, are there going to be any players that throw up a flag here and say, you know what, I don't want to go to Salt Lake.

I signed in Arizona. Well, there's no team in Arizona, so I think that that would be difficult light light to draw. I mean, certainly. Well, they're not being an HL team. Yeah, good. But I do appreciate the question. I mean, look, it stinks for a lot of the players.

I mean, especially the ones that have been here a while that like living here that have a whole life set up here, maybe have kids in school and houses and all those things. I mean, there's a human side of this. I know there was a call over the weekend with the NHLPA and some of the coyote's players. And, you know, they're going to be sort of reimbursed for this. There's going to be a flat fee they're paid. There's going to be a housing transition cost. I think six months or so, they'll get a payment basically to account for the facts.

Players might be breaking leases or there's costs there. And obviously just the normal moving expenses you would expect to relocate from cities. So there's a bit of a financial incentive or inducement for the players in this. But ultimately, the reality is players don't get to choose too much of it where they live in play. I mean, that's true for a huge percentage of the league. And even the players that get a no movement clause or no trade clause, I mean, in this case, the team's moving and they're with it. And so I think that was part of Marty Walsh's frustrations too.

I mean, last you were there at the All-Star game, and I know you wrote a story when he teed off kind of on this whole situation. I mean, the frustration from the player end and even from the union is they don't get a say in these matters. I mean, the league puts teams where they put them and then players play there. But there's only so much you can do in that case. And so it's not just the players too. I mean, there's staff and other people that are kind of in limbo. And, you know, when I know when the move happened from Atlanta to Winnipeg, for example, back in 2011, and not everybody made that move that was with the organization.

And so I think there's probably a lot of uncertainty, and I'm expecting it to be kind of a strange week here because I'm presuming this won't all be done and announced by that last game. And so the game on Wednesday night is sort of a last guaranteed coyote's game. It's kind of a strange set of circumstances hanging over all this. But it's a really relevant question that CJ just answered the players in there, it's because the reality is the easiest way to, they have no CBA rights in this kind of matter and it's unfortunate but the reality is when you sign

a stand-in-player's contract in the NHL you're signing it with the organization not with the market that makes it any sense I mean that's that's signing with and so no different when the thrashers became jets I mean all those contracts you know traveled and we're honored then that's what's going to happen here you know and and I get why the players are frustrating of course but you know and we'll see how you know is there a player or two that asks for a trade. That certainly would be the right like any other player in any other market. I mean, if you're not happy with your circumstances,

you can try to get your agent activated and try to get out. I suspect what will happen is once these players meet with Ron Smith, I've had the chance to even a couple times as well, although only on the phone, not like Ian who drops a 2,000-word feature. It's all late on the day

all of this happens. Timing of the year, Ian Mendez. you know, I don't know if you agree, but just in the two interviews I've had with Ryan Smith, I mean, it's like, this guy's not going to mess around with his investment in Oxy. He wants this to work. And obviously, it's into the 2034 winner Olympics and building a new arena. But, you know, it's hard not to think that while maybe the players are going to really miss Arizona,

where it's an amazing place to live, that maybe there's a downgrade, you know, lifestyle while perhaps. I mean, I haven't lived in Salt Lake. There's an upgrade in ownership. Let's be real here. I mean, this is going to be night and day in terms of deep pockets and a guy that's already running a pro team with Utah Jazz. Yeah, do we get a sense here that like Utah is going to, you know, Ryan Smith's going to spend money this summer and this will be a cap team ASA because obviously the coyotes, you know,

I thought they were going to be a playoff team this year. I love what they're doing. They're doing the rebuild. They got so much young talent there. Do we see them taking kind of a quantum leap forward this summer now because you're not going to want to be still rebuilding in your first year in a new market? I would think so. I mean, look, if there's one positive fear is Arizona being run on a budget the last number of years,

I mean, they have 20 draft picks in the first three rounds of the next three drafts. And they have very few, what I would call bloated or inefficient contracts because, you know, they haven't signed a lot of players to big deals and the ones they have like Clayton Keller. Well, I think most organizations, matter where you're playing, would take a player like Clayton Keller at what he's being paid. And so I think that they're in an extremely favorable position to build themselves. out, whether that's through the trade market with all those picks, obviously drafting and developing the players themselves. And then, you know, ultimately, they have all the room in the world.

We talk about every team is cap-squee to sign players or make trades. I mean, the coyotes are not in that category. They're going to be spending just to reach the floor this summer, even with the number of UFAs they have. So I could see a world where that's the case. I should mention, though, I've been a bit surprised in my calls around a league at how much, I don't know if the words concern or not everyone is sure this is going to be a slam dunk and soul lake is the way I'll put it. And I think a lot of it's around what you're saying as with the market being so small with the fact that it has been kind of a one team town with the Utah jazz that there's there's at least some pause out there that I don't this is not certainly a personal comment on

Ryan Smith. There's wife. Actually, I mean, I know that they made a great impression at the NHL leadership levels, but not everyone's sure this is going to work. And so I think this is an interesting experiment. It's clear that they just got to the end of the road in Arizona, I think, and this is the best option that can, it's sort of turnkey. But let's see. I don't know how it's going to go, how players are going to feel about living in that city and all those things. So, you know, this doesn't have the same feel, I don't think, as like Vegas and Seattle entering the league where there's a lot of, you know, it felt like those were almost no-brainers. You know, I think that there's some risk involved here. And, you know, I think being successful

in the ice will be one of the ways probably to mitigate that risk. because much easier to go support a team that's winning games and what the coyotes have had really the last decade. I think one playoff appearance during COVID in the last 10 years. I have one really dumb question that I should know the answer to after all these years of covering the NHL. Salt Lake is beautiful. I should point that out.

Like there is skiing, like some of the best skiing in the world, 20 minutes from downtown. It's not like Denver where you've got to drive hours. Are hockey players allowed to ski during the season? Is that in their contracts that they're not allowed to do anything that might get them hurt? Yeah, they can't. It's brutal.

I don't remember how it's phrased, but it's basically like you can't snowmobile ski. Like anything that's like abject danger. It's the whole point of living in Utah. You could ski, I suppose. I'm not recommending anyone to do it. But if you ever got injured doing that, you could void your contract. So it's at your own risk. I think you're allowed to toboggan.

Wasn't that Uvei Kroop back in the day who got into a dog sled racing thing? Remember this? Yeah. Yeah. with Detroit and he got hurt and I there was a big controversy around that right around whether or not he was allowed to go dog sledding yeah yeah and I think I believe in baseball's had it too didn't Paul Quantrell have something like this anyway I mean it's it's definitely come up from time to time over the years unfortunately but to put a

I wasn't going to say too just to put a final note and all this is I think I think what if the league had a magic wand. What they want is the upgrade in ownership they're getting in Ryan Smith. Perhaps if Ryan Smith was in Arizona, that makes any sense. I mean, that probably would have been the perfect world, but of course he's not. He's super passionate Ian spent time with him, but he is really high on where the demographics are headed in terms of population growth in Salt Lake City and where that market is headed. And he's convinced that he can support both NHL and NBA, but to CJ's point, I'm not really, ready to come on here and guarantee that.

I have no idea. Before we let you guys go, a couple of non-Arizona Salt Lake things to chat about. So World Hockey Championships, this is usually a week where we find out players that are not headed to the playoffs, heading overseas. With the four nations and the Olympics on the radar, do we expect guys like a legitimate USA, Canada, and sent some pretty good players overseas? Yeah. In fact, I just got out the phone with Don Sweeney, who was named GM on Friday for the Four Nations team. And first he wanted to talk about was the incentive that NHL players should have to want to go play for Canada in this men's worlds if they think they have any chance in Four Nations or Olympics.

He was pretty strong on that. And I think Team USA is attacking this pretty similarly in terms of not overlooking men's worlds if you're not in the Stanley Cup playoffs. This is not new. Like this was a tactic years ago before Salt Lake City for hockey Canada, Wayne Gretzky running the Olympic team for Canada. Go to the Worlds if you have a chance. It'll help you. And as Don Sweeney mentioned,

Don Sweeney played for Canada in the World Championship in 1997. And on that team, there are guys like Rob Blake, for example, and Rob Blake showing up to that world and Canada winning that tournament really helped Rob Blake with the, you know, making the team in Nagano for a team. So these things are true. I would just say, though, that don't give it the kind of weight where it's going to decide more than you think.

At the end of the day, they're going to take the best, both USA and Canada are going to take the best players for four nations than the Olympics. I mean, I think it's a little more noise than it is actual in my mind. But you're going to get better rosters than what we've seen. There's some more NHL quality rosters at this event. And, you know, Drew Dowdy, I covered in 2009. World Hockey Championship in Switzerland. And that's where he really put himself on the map to being considered for the 2010 Olympic team.

Just because he was a young player. It wasn't that anyone doubted his skill, but they had to choose him over, you know, more veteran type of guys. And so I think it can be a separator peer. Maybe that's the best way to put it. You know, you're right that they're going to take the best players, but maybe getting to see you in that sort of competition, you know, in the big games that that Canadian team in 2009 went to the gold medal game.

You know, maybe you can show them that you are. maybe a little bit better than others that are being considered. So I think it's going to be good. I know Sweden's doing well too. Rasmus Dahlin's going for them. And so all these countries, after not having that Olympic carrot, I think that we're going to see some real rejuvenated international hockey scene. Even at the men's world is not just the best and best tournaments to come.

I'll tell you what. Before we let you guys go as well, you don't have to divulge your heart trophy ballot to us unless you want to. We're not allowed. No, that's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah, we're not allowed until a lot. Anyway, but have you settled on how it's going to go one through five yet? Not me. Not me. I got to do more number crunching and soul searching. I think it's one of the craziest years ever for the heart. Yeah, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Like not even close. I'm going in circles on it. Yeah. No, I think we're all in the same boat. And all we know is we're just going to prepare ourselves to be inundated with criticism from at least three fan bases. Oh, it'll be very rational, calm and understanding, I'm sure. Yeah, no.

Hey, listen. Guys, thanks for the CJ safe travels. I know you're down in Arizona. We'll be looking forward to your coverage there all week. And Pierre LeBron, do we know where you're headed later this week? Because you often get parachuted in and you cover a first round playoff series. We don't even know all the matchups. Do we know where Pierre LeBron's going to be on Saturday?

I have a plane booked for Edmonton on Saturday morning, Ian Mendez. There we go. I hear there's a good hockey player place for the Oilers from Zach Hyman, yeah. Yeah. I love it. Well, listen, we're looking forward to

to everything from you guys this week and beyond into the Stanley Cup playoffs. Enjoy your week and hopefully we can hit you guys up again next Monday. Sounds good. All right, last. Always great to have LeBron and CJ and certainly on a day where there's so much news in and around the coyotes and where they're headed.

We're chatting with them about the world's. World hockey championship. Let me ask you this. I don't want to see the best players at the worlds. One of the things that the charming things about the worlds is like,

someone like Jason Dickinson gets to put on a team Canada sweater and play a major role. It's like their only chance to do that. A lot of these guys that play at the world, it means a lot to them because it's their one chance they can do it, right? They're not going to get picked for the four nations. They're not going to go to the cup. I feel like

if Connor McDavid loses in the first round, and he goes to Worlds, he's going to be, it's Connor McDavid, he's going to bring everything he's got. But it means more, I feel, to some of these guys who never got a chance, never played for a World Junior team, never thought the Olympics were within reach. And all of a sudden they get to put on that Team Canada sweater,

that team USA sweater, that, you know, team Sweden sweater, whatever. I feel like it means more to those guys. I kind of like the worlds the way they are. Yeah, you know what? But I think if, let's say you're in McDavid, actually, maybe a better example would be Crosby.

if the penguins don't make the playoffs if you're Crosby okay maybe you'll go over because you love Canada you love all that but it's not like if Crosby doesn't go Don Sweetie is going to be like well yeah just put yourself in jeopardy right 2025 right like I like to me there's the handful of guys that are

they're locked in they're loaded they don't have to go over there but I agree with you like some of those those kind of the guys that I remember a few years ago Canada won a gold medal on a Nick Paul and Connor Brown teamed up. Yeah, that's the best. I love that.

Even the Olympics years where NHL players didn't go, I know nobody watched, but it was cool to see guys get a chance that, like, you know, Sidney Crosby doesn't need that. He's already done that, right? And so, like, especially now that we're getting best on best back into the Olympics and with the World Cup and the Four Nations Cup,

it's even less, like the world kind of gets knocked down a notch, if anything. Like, the world is not the end of. all be all now, unless you're in Finland, because Finland loves the world, the story that wants, that's like, that's their Olympics. They love the worlds. But it's like, I like the worlds because it's got this kind of almost quaint feel to it, where guys get to live out their dream of playing for their country that otherwise wouldn't get the chance.

Sidney Crosby's put on a team Canada sweater hundreds of times. It means something when a guy who's like a middle six winger on a middling NHL team gets to do that too. do we know about kind of but i apologize if this is already out there is kind of badard headed over do we know he's playing coy he keeps he keeps saying he hasn't thought about it i i would expect he would yeah i think he's going to i know seth jones is going over for team usa i think i remember i mentioned dickinson because he seems like a perfect candidate for that i think he might be going um but yeah i i would think badard is going to go uh maybe that's not smart

this is obviously the longest season of his career but you know try keeping that kid off the ice. Good luck. Yeah. Speaking of the world's Canada with a 6-5 thrilling overtime victory in the women's world hockey championships on the weekend in Utica, where Haley Selvian, who by the way,

I listened to the Thursday show last and they kind of took a bit of a run at us for what they said we're dad jokes. And those two loves Yeah, well, and they love their dad jokes. And Haley said something along the lines of, I love

Ian, but, you know, there was just too many dad jokes, and that's why I got my own show. That's so, I heard you, Haley, but what I love is that Haley won't hear this segment. That's what I love. I know she won't, she won't, but she's not listening, but she did a great job. She was in Utica for almost two weeks there, and the Canada, you know, I was about to make a Simpsons, a Simpsons joke about this being more of a Utican dialect, but now I don't want to be good, I'm too old. I don't want to make anyone upset, because. I'm my old person jokes.

Steamed hams. Exactly. See, you know where I'm going. A couple of 40-something suburban dads. Yeah, that's right. Aurora Borealis. Okay, but it was easy for us. Like in Canada, on TSN, this thing,

the wall-to-wall coverage. And as always, Kenzie Lalonde and Cheryl Pounder knocked it out of the park. Great job, as always. Great job by the TSN crew. They just, they give this a really, professional feel. You watch the games,

you watch the broadcasts. It's the A team. They do all the games. Last, simple. I just turn on my TV. I flip it to TSN. I don't even have to think about

where am I going to watch women's world hockey champions. You must be nice. And what is it like in America? Because I, again, I know that it is impossible to watch these games.

Or was impossible. I got an illegal stream of it off of some sketchy-ass Reddit site. And within three minutes, I'm pretty sure my New York Times issued computer was smoking with all the pop-ups that were coming up and all the ransomware. I'm pretty sure they have my dog and they're going to make me pay money to get it. It's awful.

It's on NHL network. Now, NHL network, everybody used to have NHL network, but then everybody cut the cord, right? I have YouTube TV. People have who, like, NHL network's not available to so many hockey fans now. And that's where you get the world juniors. That's where you get women's worlds. That's where you get men's worlds. And none of us can watch the goddamn games.

I pay money for ESPN Plus. Why can't they put the games on ESPN Plus? It's the same thing. We had these exclusive games that are on NHL Network once in a while and you can't watch them on ESPN Plus. NHL Network. Look, I love NHL Network. I love so many people that work that I wish I got it.

It's the only channel I'm ever on and I can't even watch it. I don't understand why they make it so goddamn hard to watch hockey in America. So you know what my guess is on this is because TSN no longer has a national NHL rights deal that it makes it harder for them to just, I guess, hand it over to the NHL in the United States. Whereas if it was sports net doing the games, I think it would be easier, right? TSA and ESPN used to be basically the same, right? They were under the same.

Yeah. Yeah, there's still, I think, a percentage stake that ESPN owns in TSN, I think. But. Well, I wish I could get a percentage of the games then, because I can't get any of them. It's infuriating. You're getting zero, zero percent. It's just, it's just, you know, we always talk about growing the game and growing the game and growing the game. And women's hockey in particular.

I mean, we're just coming off, you know, a women's NCAA tournament that outdrew the men that had 18 million people watching South Carolina and Iowa and UK. It was incredible. And here is the women's world championships, the pinnacle of women's hockey. And it's anyone who's seen a Canada, U.S. game knows that it's as good as it gets. And it never disappoints. It's always a great game. It's the kind of game that makes new fans. And here in the United States,

you can't watch the damn game. It's just infuriating. You know what? Since we got you wound up here and it's things that are making, what's grinding Laz's gears, can I just throw out a couple of potential, since we were talking about the coyotes relocating and the potential for a new name for the team in Salt Lake.

So let's start with this. Las, Utah, which I think is going to be the case. Of course it's going to be the case. Yeah. Salt Lake is so cool sounding. The Salt Lake whatever is such a cool sounding name, right? Salt Lake, you know, we have Tampa Bay and it's like the Golden State Warriors.

Like, you can do that, New England Patriots. Salt Lake is a region. It's not, it's not like they're playing on the lake. It's the Salt Lake, it's just, it's unique. Utah, if you're down in Moab at like Arches or if you're at Zion down there, that's like a completely different world than northern Utah. You are much closer to Las Vegas. If you live in St. George, Utah, and you're a hockey fan,

you're a Vegas Golden Knights fan. So don't have to pander to the rest of the state. You're a Salt Lake team. Be the Salt Lake somethings. It sounds cool. We're going to get some horrible singular name probably with two Zs in it because they got some weird thing up there where everything's got to have two Zs in it. You got the Utah jazz.

They don't allow music in Utah, I think. It's just like, it doesn't, it's going to be awful. It's going to be terrible. So let me throw out a few of the popular suggestions that have been, Ryan Smith actually threw out a survey. He was taken actively seeking submissions. And then obviously people on Reddit and social media, they were firing in their suggestions.

And I went through and I found out a whole bunch of them. So you tell me, at last, I'll just read them out. I'm cringing already. It can be Utah, we salt lake. Okay. Here we go. let's start with this. The Utah Yeti.

Is Yeti the plural of Yetis? Or is it Yeties? Is it Yeti? What do we do there? Is that one Yeti? Is it big foot or big feet? The problem with that is the avalanche have a big foot patch, right? Yeah.

They've kind of co-opted the Sasquatch idea. And a Yeti is kind of in that same vein. I don't mind. Like Salt Lake Yeties wouldn't be so terrible. it's kind of silly sounding. But Yeti, like singular, no, I don't want that. That's not good. Okay.

Stag. Like the, you know, like a deer. Stag. Utah Stag. Salt Lake Stags. Or Salt Lake Stag. Pluralize it. Pluralize it.

There's multiple people on the team. Pluralize it. You are not a lightning. You are not a wild. What the hell is the Minnesota wild? We don't talk about that enough. What is a wild? come on people what are we doing here okay so i think you're not going to like this because

utah utah is known as the beehive state which i didn't know until i got into this and there's suggestions the salt lake or the utah hive oh oh that's terrible you can i let you in on a secret that shows just how stupid i am because i have no shame i'll admit this for most of my life i thought Utah was called the beehive state because it looks like it has a beehive hairdo with a little point at the top that sticks up. I didn't know they actually kept bees there. I'm not that bright is what I'm saying. Okay. Okay. What about singers? Stingers. Salt Lake Stingers. Salt Lake Stingers. The blue jackets would have an issue with that. That's their mascot as Stinger. I don't know. Yeah. I don't mind. Salt Lake Stingers sounds pretty cool to me. But I think you might have

run into some trouble with Columbus. And the last one I'm going to throw at you is obviously people when you think of Utah, you think of Salt Lake, you think of the Mormon community that has, you know, built up the city, built up the community, all of that. In a nod to that, what about the Saints? So the Salt Lake Saints or the Utah Saints sounds great. I don't know. My probably, like, they moved to, when they expanded to Vegas, the league was like, you cannot use gambling.

You cannot use anything gambling related. Now you're going to go to Salt Lake and say, oh, but you can use religion because that's less divisive than gambling. Right. But Salt Lake Saints and Salt Lake Stingers, I love the sounds. I like alliteration. I think that sounds really good. I think you'd sell a crap ton of jerseys. But yeah, you're right. It's going to be like the Utah hive. And I'm just going to sob in the corner, sadly. Yeah. Well, they can't pluralize that because then it's medical condition. The hives are breaking out of their zone. That's for you, Haley. That's a dad joke.

Okay. By the way, you know what I had, I had this stark realization. So I got a lot of time with Ryan Smith in Salt Lake last month. I spent like an hour with him at the jazz practice facility. Great guy engaging. I walked away last and I realized something. And it's a very, and it hasn't happened for you, but it might because you'll have to check the date of Ryan Smith's birthday. But I walked away and I said, oh my God. It's the first time Ryan Smith is, I think, 15 months younger than me. it's the first time I've interviewed an NHL owner that I'm older then and it's a very arresting and jarring and unsettling feeling because I broke in the league last and I came up with the Ottawa crew at Marion Hosa, Daniel Offerdson, Jason Spetson, like Martin Havlatte like I was kind of around the same age as a lot of those guys give or take three, four years, whatever. But you had a lot in common.

And then they moved out of the league. And then I'm like, I'm about the same age as DJ Smith. the common, same age as the coach, and you're feeling, you're feeling still pretty good. And now you're like, oh man, I'm now older than an owner and I don't know how to feel about it. It's funny, I came in the same way. I came into Pittsburgh when, like, Mark Andre Fleury was a rookie and we were

contemporaries. Then I get to Chicago, and I'm a couple years older than like Brent Seabrook, Duncan Keith, but they're basically contemporaries of mine. And then they hired Jeremy Colleton, and he was like, you know, seven years younger than me, and that was weird. It's like, all right, the coach is younger than me. But now it's like, yeah, I mean, there's a blessing and a curse to getting old right now, because right now we're at that age where everything is catered to us.

You know, the boomers are kind of retiring. We're the ones that are like in that target demographic. We're the ones with allegedly having disposable income. And so like the Super Bowl halftime show is for us now, man. It's for us. You know, it's, it's usher. It's Rihanna. It's, it's everyone from who grew up in the 90s and 2000s that everything is bending

over backwards for us. Like remember the rap halftime show with like Snoop Dog. and all this. It was amazing a few years ago. That was directly for 42 year old men. It was amazing. So everything is catering towards us. But at the same time,

we're the ones that the young ones are resenting for that. And now, yeah, there's people that are doing better than we are in. We're doing okay. But there are billionaires out there that are our age. And they're buying hockey teams. And we are, I'm sitting in my bedroom with a $100

IKEA desk talking about it. That's where we're at right now. Exactly. Exactly. I can't believe we've got. gotten whatever 35 minutes into the pod. And we haven't talked about the craziness of the Eastern Conference Playoff race where you want to talk about wild swings.

We went into the weekend on Friday. We were like, wow, the Pittsburgh Penguins. It looks like they're going to make it. Everyone else, nobody else wants it. Pittsburgh wants it. They're going to get it. So what happens to the weekend? Everybody else wins.

Pittsburgh loses to the Bruins in regulation time. Philadelphia after we all wrote their obituary of just bounced back and written a new chapter here. They've won two in a row. They're alive. Detroit, they're up 4-1 on Toronto. You're like, okay, well, that, and then they blow the lead.

They win it. And yet Washington is somehow the team holding out a wild card too. So just for the listeners, I'm going to just really quickly lay out the schedule here in case people don't know. Washington's holding the last wallcards. I'm taking the Islanders out of the equation.

I kind of feel like they're safe. If any franchise can blow it, it would be the Islanders. but they do feel very safe right now, yes. They're safe. Washington is in Wild Card 2, but they got a tough one on Monday night. They got Boston.

And Boston still kind of needs to win to secure some things. And then they got Philadelphia in a game that could matter for the flyers, depending on how other things go. Detroit, I would argue, Las, is in the driver's seat in that they've got two winnable games against Montreal, a home and home. And, you know, and Pittsburgh's got Nashville and the Islanders, but now they need a ton of help. So I kind of feel like it's Detroit's to lose.

I agree. Although Washington could, if they beat Boston on Monday, I think Washington has pretty much put the ball in their own court here, right? Well, it's funny because we spent like weeks making fun of this playoff race, and it's been fabulous. Like every day it changes. Like these aren't like quote unquote good hockey teams, but it's turned into this incredible race where like the mood swings are,

you mentioned the penguins. Look, I have a lot of familiarity with Pittsburgh. I worked there for a few years. I love Pittsburgh. And one of the things I love about it is they are the most histrionic city, sports city in the world. When they win a game, they are the best team that ever lived. Nobody can stop them.

Give Sidney Crosby all the awards. And they lose a game, fire Mike Sullivan into the sun, Eric Carlson, the disaster. Kyle Dubas doesn't know what he's doing. It's always either the apocalypse or the rapture in Pittsburgh. And I love that about the city. And this has been the perfect two weeks for Pittsburgh because it has felt that way.

It's legitimately felt that way. It's just been wild to see. But I agree. Detroit, you can't lose to Montreal. You can't. You have to beat Montreal twice. And if Detroit does that, they're in. They control their destiny at this point.

The Islanders would have to have a spectacular fall, but wouldn't it be amazing? I think they closed the season against Pittsburgh, don't they? Do you imagine if it's Pittsburgh versus the Islanders for a trip to the playoffs, winner take all? Like, that's what we all want to see, right? you want to see Game 82 decide everything. It's just been phenomenal.

And like you said, flyers aren't out of it yet. They need some help. Washington's right in there right now. This turned into, you know, the old Elephanton Renan that we kept talking about, turned into this fantastic race that if you take out the fact that all these teams are actually kind of not good, it's been fantastic. Yeah, it's been a really compelling race. At a time in which only one playoff matchup is set, a lot of things are up in the air,

but nothing is more compelling than are you in or you're out. So obviously who's canon fodder for the Rangers? I guess that's the question. Wow, but I think we all wanted to see Islanders Rangers, but the way that that game went on the weekend, going to overtime and then

becoming a three-point game, it's almost impossible now that we'll get Islanders Rangers in round one. Yeah, the Islanders get in, they're going to be the number, they'll be playing Carolina third place team. Yeah, they won't be the wild card. I do want to leave some runway here for you and not to turn this into a very serious pod,

but there is, I think a serious discussion that we could have here around Joel Quenville. And the reason why Joel Quenville's name is back in the news cycle is last week, Joel Quenville made his first public appearance or speaking about publicly what happened in 2010 with Cal Beach on the Cam and Strick podcast. Andy Strickland, you know, I thought, Ask some pointed questions.

It wasn't like a completely a softball interview. There was tough questions being asked. And you wrote a column about it because it's a very complicated issue. It's about second chances. It's about who deserves second chances. It's about do second chances deserve to happen at the NHL level? All of these things. And I thought you did a really good job on a difficult topic.

on a sensitive, emotional topic that has a lot of different avenues. And you explored all the avenues in your color. It's not like you said, here's what I think and here's the old. You're like, hey, there's three or four ways you can view this. Here they are. Here they are. And you almost let the reader decide which path they wanted to go down. How difficult was that to navigate knowing you, you know, you know that situation.

You know all of it. It's a charge thing. Just can you walk us through the column and how that was to put together for you? First of all, thank you. It's tough for me because, like, you know, all we ever do, those of us that want to see hockey improve as a culture, right? We talk about we need to win hearts and minds. We need to convert people, basically.

We need to get them to think more progressively, more modern. And we need people to change. We need the old guard to stop thinking the old way. And for over two years now, I've been talking to people around the least. that have talked to Joel Quenville. And he's been putting in the work. He has been calling people. He hasn't been just, this hasn't been mandated community service.

He has been making an effort. He has been, you know, having hours long conversation with some of the most important voices in the game to try to figure out what he did wrong, what he could do better, and how he would approach it next time. And that's great. That's what we want, right? Like, we want people to get better. And what a great story would be if Joel Quentonville in his mid-60s,

comes back to the NHL and is a different guy. And you can tell and he's, you know, much more in touch with his players and their lives and all the things that are happening and the power dynamics that occur between a coach and a player that theoretically to me is great. And that's what we all think we want. But when it comes down to it, why would you hire him? Why would you, there are so many good coaching candidates out there in the hockey world right now. Why would you want to put Joel Quenville in charge of the young men?

in your organization, given what has happened. Why does he get a second chance instead of someone else getting a first chance, right? And when you listen to that interview with Camman said with Andy Strickland, you know, Joel said a lot of the right things. He, you know, said, I should have done more. I wish I had pushed the issue farther, things like that. I wish I had followed up to make sure jump. But there was a lot of, it was taking ownership, but at the same time kind of deflecting it.

It was saying, well, I thought they were going to handle it. I didn't know about this. He keeps pleading ignorance. And it's, I come back to Northwestern football. I went to Northwestern University. And Northwestern football had a hazing scandal this past summer, where Pat Fitzgerald, a local, a beloved icon, lost his job because of it. And what it came down to was either he knew the hazing was going on and condoned it, or he was unaware the hazing was going on, which is just as unacceptable to have so little clue what's happening in your program, right?

And that's kind of where I'm at with Quenvo, whether he knew it or not, It was happening under his nose and he should have known it. He was the, he is the boss. The buck stops with him and he keeps kind of deflecting that buck a little bit. I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't know.

And then when he called it, I had a miss in 2010, but I think that there's a place for me in the game. A miss. He just kept using these kind of like callous words that were just dismissive of what happened. And it made it hard to buy his contrition, right? So it's really difficult because I want to believe that Joel Quenville has learned from this.

But I also, I don't think Kevin Shevel Dayoff should be in the NHL right now. He's the GM of the Winnipeg Jets and he's doing a very good job. He was in that room. He was a grown-ass man in that room. And he didn't go to HR. He didn't go to the press. He didn't go to the police.

He didn't stand up and say this is wrong to sit on. Everyone in that room would be out of the league. And I just, I waffle back and forth and I know I'm supposed to be, you know, I'm a columnist. I'm supposed to have a hard opinion on this. But I really don't know what I want out of this. I probably, I wrote in the column, I think the best thing that could happen is Joel, is Joel Quenville is reinstated by Gary Bettman,

and then all 32 teams say, you know, no, we're good. I think that would send the message that what happened was unacceptable, but I just, I have no faith in the hockey world. If he's reinstated,

he will be hired in a nanosecond. Do you not feel like, do you not feel like that appearance on the Cam and Strick podcast, it's calculated that it's his first? And so, look, And you wrote of the column. That's a friendly boy. I agree with you that Andy Strickland did a,

he did a good job. He asked a lot of hard questions. He did. He didn't really push back on all of them, but that's a friendly interview. Like Joel Quenville, that's a St. Louis, that's a St. Louis Blues ringside reporter who knows Joel

Quenville and Joel Quenville knows him. That's not like jumping into the lion's mouth there. Yeah, but, but I just feel like, okay, that's the first step in the reinstatement. But as you said, in your piece, you know,

Bill Daley saying there's been no change in his status. But, but boy, doesn't it feel like here we are, it's the middle of April, when does the coaching hiring cycle start? Starts now. It starts in the next,

I'll tell you. Next six weeks, this is when you hire a coach for next season. I'll pull back the curtain a little bit. I wrote a chunk of that column last summer when the Rangers fired Gerard Galan. I'm like, oh, crap, they're going to go hire Joel.

I better write this column. And then we kind of wait, and then it became clear that the Rangers weren't going to hire him. So kind of, kind of sat on it and then I kind of repurposed it. It was just sitting in my drafts folder and I repurposed it after listening to that interview. It's going to happen, right?

It feels like it's inevitable and this is the first step in that process. The things that give me pause and make me wonder is the Mike Babcock situation in Columbus. The disaster that that turned out to be might give a team pause. Like, wow, that didn't prove worth it, huh? And the second thing is there's a second lawsuit still pending right now. And that was filed at the beginning of the season. I wonder if that pushed the decision down another year that were maybe the league's going to wait until that lawsuit is resolved from the other Black Ace from 2010 because you don't want to hire a coach with pending litigation that he might be named in. So I think that it might not happen immediately because of that, but it just, it just feels inevitable because he's the second winning.

He's a really good hockey coach. He's really good at his job. And some team is going to take that chance, take that PR hit. and it could be the St. Louis Blues. It could be a number of teams. Like who, you know, if you took all else out of it, who wouldn't want Joel Quenville to be their coach? Yeah.

Well, listen, we'll leave the conversation. Caviot. Yeah, a huge caveat. Listen, we'll leave the conversation there, but I would encourage our listeners. If you haven't checked it out, go read Laz's column from the weekend about Joel Quenville. Like I said, very well written, very nuanced,

very passionate. And you can read that and you can draw your own. conclusion. Las, let's switch gears. Shall we bring in our palet Jesse Granger, who joins us every Monday for a little segment we like to call Granger Things. Brought to you by BetMGM,

the exclusive betting partner with the athletic. And, you know, earlier, Jesse, Laz and I were talking about the Eastern Conference playoff race. At the bottom, it's a mess. We don't have any match-ups set. But guess what? We got one match-up set in the National Hockey League. It happened on the weekend. And we're locked in.

It's 2-3 in the Central. It's win-a- It's Colorado. And guess what, guys? They played each other on the weekend. And Winnipeg handed the avalanche a 7-0 beat down in Denver. So, I mean, I guess the abs are going to go in here as a slight favorite. But does the 7-0 game give you guys a little bit of pause to say, ooh, you know what?

I might like the Winnipeg Jets in this series head against the abs, which is not something you may have said three or four weeks ago. Yeah, I mean, like you said, the abs are minus 135 favorites. The Jets are plus 115. So the odds are close, but they are giving the abs a legitimate edge there. And to me, I mean, you're going to go to the goalie guy. You know, I'm going to go straight to the goalies. And it is not good for Colorado in this series when you look at just that position

because obviously Connor Hellebuck's the best goal in the league this year. He's been awesome. And he's played the fewest games he started in a full season in a very, very long time. So that doesn't guarantee he's going to be ready for the playoffs. But if I was a betting man, this is going to be Connor Helibuck's best playoffs. I really like the form he's in. I like that he hasn't been overworked. I think he's in a perfect position to be at his best when the Jets need him.

Then you've got the a abs on the other side. And I was banging the drum for the abs to add a veteran backup at the deadline just because I thought it would feel a lot safer in that room. If you had a Jake Allen or a Mark Andre Fleury or someone like that, behind Alexander Giorgiyev, not just to be in case Giorgiev gets hurt, but also to push him and make sure that he's at the top of his game. And lately he hasn't been great. And they don't have a second option. I mean, Justice Anunin, the young kid has played well, but I don't see a way that the abs are going to go to him in the playoffs. So it's pretty much on Giorgiev's shoulders. And he hasn't

been great the second half of the season. I also think the abs, avs, which have historically been a team that's very easy on their goalies. Like when Grubao was a Vezna finalist, I thought that was insanity because the abs just made life so easy on him. Anybody would have put up a 925s, say, percent. They are typically the team that gives their goalie the easiest work and makes him look better than he is. This year, that hasn't been the case.

They've been tough on Georgiev. I think he's faced the most high danger chances of any goal in the league. And he hasn't handled them particularly well, especially in the second half. So while I think the abs are probably. the overall stronger roster. If you look top to bottom, I understand why they're favored. There's definitely some concern for Colorado going into that series,

especially when you've got the best goal in the league on the other side. How do you view it, Mark? Why can't you go to the kid? Why do you have to go to Georgiev? I mean, he hasn't proven anything. He hasn't really, you know, this isn't Marty Brodora we're talking about here. He's a sub-900 goalie this year. He is not, like you said, he is not handling it well.

And Anunin's been very good. Why not go with the kid? We've seen young goalies kind of step in and just, go on runs before. I think if I'm Jared Bender, I'm strongly considering going, benching Georgiev and starting with Anunin, just because I think right now it gives you your best chance of winning. Yeah, I mean, it's, they could do it. And like you said, Anunin in a small sample has played very well this season. His numbers are, I think if you don't, like if you take out the games played filter, I think he's like third in the league and

save percentage or something really high up there. Obviously not a lot of games. But yeah, I mean, it's a big spot to put that kid in the playoffs. We'll see. It's going to be interesting. Like I said, I feel like, well, if we want to talk about Carolina, I was dead wrong about Carolina needing to add a goalie because their goalies are amazing. So I'm not always right. Every year, Freddie Anderson is great in the regular season.

Then he has one really good round in the playoffs. Then he turns into Freddie Anderson again. I'm not completely sold on that. That's true. But Kachikov has gotten a lot better. But anyways, that's an example where I was dead wrong. I feel like the Colorado example, I was dead right. If this team had a Flurry or an Allen or a Morazic,

some veteran that you trust right now, how much better would they feel about their situation going into the playoffs? I can't believe they didn't. They're a championship caliber team in every other position. They've got the forwards. They've got the stars. You can't win without a goal. Like we've seen unheralded goalies win Stanley Cup certainly.

I mean, Hill did it last year. And we've certainly seen guys like Jordan Bennington just a couple amazing runs out. but which goal he's going to do it for you. I don't know. It's a very harrowing time if you're an avalanche fan because this is your window and this is a real Stanley Cup contender if you get just serviceable goaltending.

If you just get like 905 goaltending, the year they won the Stanley Cup, Darcy Kemper was not great. It was just good enough. We just are, we're going to score five, six goals a night. We just need you to make a few stops in big moments and that's what Darcy

Kemper did. but but don't you guys feel like if you look around the league there's a lot of situations where you're like you're going to be starting two goalies in this series at some point right like like like like a bunch of them uh feels like that happens a lot more than it used to doesn't it they used to be like the one guy yeah yeah i remember like in the early 2000s carolina went to the cup with kevin weeks and Artaxerze Irbe. This was the O2 run. And it was like mind blowing

that they would like alternate people were like, what's going on? This is crazy. And now it kind of feels like that's the norm. And like, you know,

you could see it in Boston. Heck, I'm certainly even wonder what happens in Florida. Like Stolar's has played pretty well. Amazing. And I think you give

Bobrovsky game one if he's healthy, if he's ready to go. I think you give it to him. But I mean, that's another. situation where it's like, I can see both goalie starting. The leashes are so much shorter than they used to be in these situations.

You used to always like, he'll figure it out. He'll figure it out. The other guy's not worthy of this. But now we've seen enough times where the second guy is worthy of it. And maybe he's the guy. And the leashes are so short now. Yep. We were just,

I was just asking Bruce Cassidy here in Vegas a couple days ago about Logan Thompson and Aden Hill, who are pretty much a 1A, 1B tandem. Hill was the starter, but Logan Thompson has played a lot better lately. So now it looks like he might be. And we asked him, once you pick a guy for game one of the playoffs, how much of the guy is he really? And Cassidy was like, not at all. We're going to make a decision for game one.

And then we're going to make a separate decision for game two. And that's how it's going to play out. And he goes, and he goes, and you know what? That's okay. Like maybe a while back that wasn't okay. Now I think you're going to see a lot more of that in the NHL. And the other thing he said was that I thought was interesting was he said, you have to have the right type of team to be able to do that. And he said in the regular season, it's the coach's call.

We don't give a crap what the players think about what goalie we're putting in there. We're making the call and the players will deal with it. But he goes in the playoffs, it's not necessarily that way. He's like, I think you have to have a team that can handle it. And I think you have to have a team that's behind your decision. Like when you make a goalie decision to change goalies or to alternate them or whatever you're going to do, you've got to have that conversation with your players. They all have to be on board.

You can't have your whole locker room saying, what the hell are you going to that guy for? So it's going to be interesting to see how different teams handle it. Like you said, Boston, they might just go one and one the whole way. They're both playing so well. They might not give the coach a reason to switch. But yeah, it's going to be fascinating to see how these teams that have used goalies pretty alternatingly in the regular season. It's going to see, it's going to be interesting to see what they do in the playoffs.

I remember in 2015 during the Blackhawks running that first round they played Nashville, and Corey Crawford got yanked in game one. And then Scott Darling came in and went to triple overtime. And he made like 50 saves and it was incredible. And they brought in Crawford again for game two and it didn't go well. And then all of a sudden, Scott Darling was a starting goalie for the Chicago Blackhawks from almost the rest of that series. And you're absolutely right. The team, that was a team that could handle that.

It was a veteran championship tested team. And they understood that, look, Crawford's going to get back in at some point, but we're riding the hot hand. Maybe Corey needs to reset his brain for a couple of days here. And everybody understood if you're on a team that hasn't been through that playoff ringer before, that's a seismic thing to do to change the goalie. So you're absolutely right. Like certain teams can get away with that and certain teams can not. Do you guys remember?

And I think this would either have been like 2016, 2017, somewhere there. Brian Elliott was the goalie for Calgary in the playoffs. And like he gave up a bunch of goals in the previous game. And there was a lot of questions about should he start the next game, should he not? and he gave up a goal early in the game. They pulled him. And I had never seen a goalie get pulled after one goal in a playoff game. He gave up one goal.

And it's like, you're out. But that goes to Jesse your point of, I bet you the players weren't on board. Like you have to be on board. And if there's even a little bit of doubt, like you can't go into a game and say, okay, if the goal that gives up one, he's out. Right.

You can't do that. Right. Right. It had to have been a feeling on the bench. And it could have been before the goal. goes in. It could have been the guys on the bench are like, man, he's looking pretty shaky back there tonight, guys. Like, we better not give up any shots. Like, you cannot play a game afraid that if you give up a shot, your goalie's going to let it in. And you never know.

Like, there are vibes on the bench. You can, the coach can tell. Like, these guys do not trust that goalie. This is not going well. No. Hey, so you, you saw a little bit of the good and bad in the avalanche on Sunday. Avalanche first half of that game, it's three nothing. You're like, okay, they've bounced back from that loss, all good. And then what happened in the, maybe you can tell us, what happened in the third period overtime that allowed Vegas to win that game and again, poke another hole in the ads? Yeah, Vegas found its game in the third.

They started getting to the front of the net. And it was, I mean, Golden Knights fans have to be pumped to see that it was Tomas hurdle coming back. He's only in his third game since coming back from knee surgery after they traded for him from San Jose at the deadline. and he's doing exactly what Vegas brought him in to do, which is cause havoc in front of the net, get tips,

get screens to get, collect some loose pox, put the rebounds in. He was a monster in the third period of that game. He only ended up with the overtime winner, but he did have another goal that was called back that he tipped in that ended up not counting. So it was a really good game for hurdle.

And obviously the rest of the forwards were doing similar. Jack Eichle scored a nice goal. But yeah, I mean, Vegas, they've been very, very, very inconsistent this year. When they're at their best, they look like the team that went to the Stanley Cup final last year. I wrote a column a week ago saying, look out NHL, the Golden Knights are back.

They look like the team that went. And then they lost like three in a row to like Arizona. And this team is very Jekyll and Hyde this year. When they're at their best, they look just like there, there aren't any pieces missing. They look just like the team that won at all. But they haven't looked like that very consistently. And that's why they're the last team in the playoffs. in the West. I'm sure it's part of the reason no one wants to play them in the West because they have

the potential to put together a really good performance. But I also think it's going to be fun to see what happens to this team in the playoffs because they are, they have not been consistent the way they were last season. Nobody wants to play them because their roster is like a $95 million roster. I can't have you here and not ask you about Mark Stone. I'm not even going to ask about the guy had a lacerated spleen. I'm sure the timing is obviously awfully convenient, but it was a legitimate injury. My question is, does Vegas revel in the hatred? Like, does the organization, not the fans, but like the front office, do they laugh at the way the rest of the, or do they take it, are they worried about their reputation? Or do they think this is all hilarious and everybody

hates them for this stuff? No, I think, I think it bothers the front office. Like, I don't know how much it bothers them, but I do not think they, they laugh at it the way the fans do. The fans, for sure, love it. Like, the fans are like, I write a story about potential line. with Mark Stone in the lineup. The fans are more excited to see the comments section from all the other NHL fans than they all are the actual stories. I cannot wait to drink the tears of all the rest of the hockey world. Yes, that is the Vegas fans. But the front office, I mean, Kelly McCrimmon multiple times over the last couple years in press conferences has basically said like,

like is kind of upset with the perception of what this team is doing. And not just the LTIR, but like he keeps saying like, you guys all think we go after every player, but we don't. We go after only the players we like. And it's like, well, you like a lot of players because you guys trade for basically every guy that's on the market. But yes, I do think that there is, it does bother them a little bit, the perception. And to be honest, that's what this is all about is the perception, because it's a legitimate injury. I would assume the timeline is legitimate. The NHL is checking in on these things.

I have to assume that Mark Stone is really coming back at this time. They haven't been holding him out. I have to assume that it was a real. lacerated spleen with a real surgery that he's really coming back from. But the perception is very bad. And sometimes the perception is just as important as the reality. And him hitting the ice exactly eight days before the playoffs, which is exactly the amount of days he had before last playoffs when he hit the ice, it's just not a great look. It's just not a great look. I don't think Mark Stone is faking injuries. I don't think there's any cheating going on here. But I do think that

the perception is bad. And I think that the league is probably eventually going to have to do something about this. And it's not just the Golden Knights. Tampa Bay did it with Kuturav. It's other teams are going to do it. The aves, if Landisog can play, they're going to play him. It's going to be the same exact thing for the abs. The Golden Knights aren't the only ones doing this.

They are the only ones to do it maybe this aggressively and trade for seven players as soon as the player gets hurt. But, yeah, I mean, you have to imagine eventually the league is going to do something to quit to make these games stop with the LTIR. I'll tell you what, though, this mechanism is available to all 32 teams. Vegas isn't doing anything against. No other team, because we live in such a risk-averse world in the NHL, no one wants to be as bold as Vegas.

That's the bottom line. Like, that's, quite frankly, nobody else wants to do it. And until they make a rule, then I don't see what the Golden Knights are doing that's illegal. I have no problem with it. I got no problem. Any team that wants to spend money is okay by me. Exactly. I want more aggressive.

They've been more aggressive in basically every way in terms of signing big free agents in terms of trading for Stone and Patcheretti and Ikel and hurdle and all these. And they're also more aggressive in this way. And that I think a lot of GMs, you have a player hurt and you say, man, I don't want to go 10 million over the cap because then in the summer, I've got to reap what I've sewn. I've got to deal with this. and I've got to trade a big name player for nothing, whereas Vegas is like, we'll figure it out when we get there.

And maybe we'll have to trade Riley Smith like we did last offseason. We will figure it out when we get there. And hopefully we've got a cup when we do it. And last summer it worked. All right. Well, tell you what, guys, we'll leave it there. Laz is actually rolling into your town, Jesse. Yeah.

Should be fun. I can't wait. Yeah. I can't wait to spend $24 for a slice of pizza and a soda. Yeah. It's not. brutal these, man. I miss the old boardwalk casino.

You walk in through the giant clowns' mouth. Every casino now, like their theme is just rich people. I don't know. In Vegas ain't what it used to be. But it's still awesome. I still love it. Well, listen, safe travels to you last. Jesse, we look forward to your Stanley Cup playoff coverage.

That'll start later this week. We'll leave it there. I want to remind everybody you can hit us up, The Athletic Hockey Show. At gmail.com, the athletic hockey show. Gmail.com. You can leave us a voicemail to you. 845-4-5-844-59.

Thank you for listening for the Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. Laz and I had a bunch of fun here over the last hour. If you enjoyed what you heard, leave us a five-star rating and review. You know we would appreciate that. Next edition of the Athletic Hockey Show comes your way on Wednesday, Frank Carrado back in the saddle between the two Shons, McAndoo, and Gentilly. Lazan I will hit you up again next Monday.