The Athletic Hockey Show - Craig Berube out as Maple Leafs head coach

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

Pavel Dorofeyev leads the Golden Knights to a game 5 overtime win over Anaheim. The Sabres beat the Habs in a penalty filled game 4 in Montreal. Sean, Frankie and Sean discuss the goal scoring machine Dorofeyev, the lengthy double coaches challenge in Montreal and the breaking news during the pod, that the Maple Leafs fired Craig Berube and who should replace him behind the Leafs bench?Host: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeWith: Frankie CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What up, what up it is the athletic hockey show. It is May 13th, 2026. I am Sean Jensili. I am at my home in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Briefly, mercifully been taken off the road. I mean, Sean McIndoo and Frankie Carado, fellas, how are we doing?

We got a couple good games last night, did we not? Yeah. Good, buddy. I was just wondering, when you were traveling all, like, I don't know, all these weeks, did you have the same luggage get up that Ovi had, just like a bunch of hockey bags spread out across the airport? Were you doing that whole thing? I thought you were set me up to say that I brought, like, a two-week carry-on and did laundry a couple times, which you knew, which you were aware of. I thought you were just set me up to get humiliated to have to- No, I would never do that to you. admit that I did laundry and, you know, whatever, had to buy, had to buy Tidepods at an

MPM in Anaheim to clean my socks and underwear. I did, I did do that. I did not have the OV, the OV set up, though. It's funny because we're like really similar in a lot of other ways, but not that, not that particular. Just promise me one thing. When you go back on the road, we need like an aesthetic check on whatever arena you end up at. Like, give us the, the aesthetic vibe in rally and then correspond that with Buffalo or Montreal Buffalo or Montreal nothing's going to beat Anaheim dude I that was my

thought that was I'm getting like I know that game is in Vegas but I've gotten like what's the word I'm looking for like some kind of envy for people who get to spend more time in the pond because I love it because I love it there it's a fancy restaurant it's a it's a you know a red lobster

in 1996 that's that's the entire aesthetic there. We did see Vegas come. We can call it a comeback on them. Anaheim had a 1-0 lead off of Beckett Seneca goal. Pavlore Fave scores 410 into OT, gives the Ducks a 3-2 win in that one. They're up 3-2 in the series. I think my takeaway coming out of that was like I was, there was a brief period in the second

period in the second period where I was a Ducks believer. They had like a 17-7. six shot advantage or whatever it was in the second period. I was like, I think these guys, I think these guys might do it. And then Vegas comes back and ends up winning it on the Dora Fave goal in overtime, man. Do we think this is the pivotal game for the series? Like, is this the one that gives, I mean, I know it gives Vegas an advantage, but is this when we look back on this, on the series when it's over, is that the moment that we say like, okay, that's when things changed? If Vegas wins the series next game, then yes.

but I wouldn't count out Anaheim just yet. Just the nature of the way they play, high flying, up and down the ice. They get a ton of shots. They get a ton of chances. Like, I'm not willing to say that whatever happened in game five is going to carry over into game six. Like, I just, I can't see Anaheim going quietly. But let me ask you guys this, okay? So Pavel Dorofiev scores two last game.

He actually left the game. I think he took a shot off the knee and then comes back in, scores the OT winner. It's three goals in his last. two games. If you were talking to just like a casual hockey fan who follows their own market only and then, you know, you know about the superstars. And you ask them, how many goals do you think Pavel Dorofiev has over the last two seasons? What do you think their answer would be? Because I don't think it would be whatever. It would be who is, it would be who is Pavl Dorofafea. It wouldn't be in the high 70s. It would be, I don't know, who is that guy? He's, he's kind of

really emerged here as one of the premier goal scores that. people don't really talk about very much. And that's the thing. If you asked that same fan, how many goals does he have in the last three weeks? They might say something in the high 70s because it feels like every single Vegas goal is the same guy. You know, if I'm not watching the game and I'm just kind of following it, I see Jesse Granger pop off on my feed. He must just at this point cut and paste. Another goal.

Another goal. because it is, he's been fantastic in the playoffs so far. And I mean, to answer your question, Sean, this whole series has felt like Anaheim was just on the verge of being the better team. And every time they tiptoe up to that line, it's like Vegas is able to just push them back. And they don't, and it's a pushback. They don't knock them down.

They don't finish them off. You know, they haven't had that opportunity yet. but it just feels like Vegas is a step ahead. And I got to say, my experience as a guy watching NHL playoffs tells me most of the time when you have a series like this eventually, and maybe it's in game six, the favorite just wears the underdog down and takes it. And then you look back, then if you're Anaheim, you look back at all these moments and say, if the pocket just bounced a little different, if we'd finished here, if we'd got the save here,

because you feel like you were right there. The other 20% of the time, you get to a game 7, and then suddenly right when you expect it, that pushback isn't there, and that's when the underdog comes through. This does feel like it could be there, but at this point, I'm still feeling like this is just too many missed opportunities for the dogs. Yeah, it was something, I think this kind of speaks to what you were saying, Sean.

Like it was something they were pushing pretty hard on the ESPN broadcast last night. Like, okay, where's, where's Jack Eichel? Like, this is the game where Jack Eichael steps up. He's got two assists in the series. You know, his lines, they're, they've got a, you know, Vegas has a two one goal lead when they're on the ice, but it's not obviously not producing it five on five, the way that we're accustomed to seeing from him and him and Barbashev in particular.

And it didn't happen last night either, right? So you keep, that speaks to something, though, where you're like, all right, we're going to see this next level from Vegas. And the longer it goes with them, leading in this series now, the more inevitable it kind of starts to feel, right? Because they are getting carried by Dorofaev. That's great. But it does feel like at some point, you know, the big guys on Vegas, Eichael in particular, are going to, are going to, are going to, up up. And what we saw last night, too, was they got good goaltending, man, especially in that, especially in that second period. It was, it was Carter Hart looking like he knew what he was doing

out there. And that's something that, you know, we've seen the flip side of it plenty of times, too. So there's stuff that's happening here for Vegas, you know, there, I should say stuff that's not happening. Like, they're up three to in the series, right? But they're not getting the production from the big guy. Their, you know, Hart hasn't been particularly good. good until until this last little chunk where you're like, okay, stuff is starting to change. And that's where, like, I'm not counting out the ducks. Like, obviously not. But, you know, it does feel like stuff's starting to shift, at least for this next game.

Well, to your point on Carter Hart, over, it's, it's been six games, really, where he's really caught fire here, where he's got like a 415 goal saved above expected. He's got a 932 save percentage. Six games in the playoffs is a long time. long time. And it feels like an eternity. And he's played at, you know, the level that we probably became accustomed to before he had to leave. And Torts was the coach for that. And there's a few things now. So Carter Hart has emerged for Vegas. Torts is the coach. And for me, I kind of think torts is just staying out of the way because he's got a lot of tools at his disposal. And one of those tools is a guy who didn't play much in the regular season in William Carlson. Like he was

hurt. He played 14 games. Now he's played five in the playoffs. And his ice time is going up, like starts at 11, goes to 13. Then game 3, he's at 19. Now he's in that like 17 to 19 range. And that makes a big difference for Vegas. Like we always talk about it. Premier centermen, guys that can play matchups and guys that are defensively responsible, well, you're playing against Anaheim, who has a lot of speed, a lot of skill. It's important to have that kind of player. And essentially, it took him two games. to get up to speed. And so that's another thing that makes a difference for Vegas that they didn't have in

the regular season. When we were having all these conversations about Vegas and being skeptical about what it could look like in the playoffs, they had Aden Hill or Akira Schmidt and net. They had Bruce Cassidy as a coach. They didn't have William Carlson. Like, those are three things that have changed now. And Vegas looks different. And you can mitigate Jack Eichel not scoring at the rate that you would like him

to because these other things. merged. Because part of that and part of that's you can play Marner with Carlson too. Like that's, that's what they can do now that they couldn't do before is that you can have Marner in the kind of spot. I know they maybe wanted him with Eichael when they signed him. But, you know, if Mitch Marner was a center, he would play center full time. And there's a reason that he plays on the wing. It's because, it's because he's better there. And now you have him playing with Carlson. Your, your top six makes a whole lot more sense. And you have a line that can, if nothing else, like control the run of play for significant amounts of time in this sort of

layout that you want it. And you start wondering now if you're a Vegas fan, maybe if you're an Anaheim fan, they're up three to what happens when we get the Jack Eagler game that we haven't got yet? And that's always in the playoffs. That's always it, right? You see it in Montreal when Caulfield wasn't going at five on five. It's sort of like, oh, on the one hand, man, it stinks that. our guy isn't isn't producing. On the other hand, we're still here. And it's going to happen

eventually. Like that's what the feel is. You got to think it has to. I mean, Jack Eichael's too good a player that he's not going to blow out. And he had the two assists last night. So, I mean, maybe this is the start of it. But you're looking at a guy who hasn't scored yet. But he's there. And you mentioned Mitch Marner. He's been the story for Vegas for a lot of the, the, the first run. He's held off scoreboard last night and I wouldn't say they don't miss a beat because it was overtime. I mean, we're one, one shot

the other way from having a very different conversation, but sometimes that's what a good playoff run looks like. It's just, it was, the, the bad thing is always one shot away, but it never quite gets there. And next thing you know, you're deep into a playoff run and everybody's starting to buy in.

Yeah, I mean, we're past the point of where you worry about how wins happen. And you just worry that they do. Like it doesn't, it doesn't matter that, you know, that they needed a, that they blew a late lead and needed overtime to,

to take the lead or that, or that you needed Carter Hart to steal another one or that Ikel still hasn't scored a goal in the series. Like, like, who, who cares? You're,

you're up three, too. Like you don't, and it sounds corny. It sounds like a cliche, but you don't, you don't ask questions and you don't necessarily make apologies for, for how you come across wins whenever,

whenever, whenever you finally do. No. And to, And to that point, like even how you construct your lines in a game, like I guess I find it fascinating that Mason McTavish, who has been a healthy scratch, Olin Zellweger, who's been a healthy scratch, McTavish to assist, Zellweger gets a goal. And if you looked at Anaheim's lineup on any given night where McTavish was out of the lineup,

you would look at it and say, you're telling me VL and Washi and Johnston are better players than Mason McTavish, but you just put the lines together. the way you think you're going to win a game. And, you know, good for those guys for jumping in and getting some points and feeling good about their games because they're supremely skilled players and they've had great moments in their career. But I kind of wonder now if you're Anaheim, are you on to something there? Like, keeping a little more skill around and trying to see if you can get back into it that way. Like, it's a close series. It's not like Anaheim's so far behind.

It's one goal either way. It's one moment here or there that's making the difference right now. So when the margins are that slim, you're just everyone's walking this tightrope and even more so if you're the team that's down in the series. Yeah, and we're probably going to see Mason McTavish play a bigger role in this moving forward because Ryan Payling gets hurt last night. He's he'd given them big minutes, good minutes. He's just playing 3C for them over the last chunk of games. And he leaves with what looks like a concussion after a hit. after hit by Braden Mcnapp that got Braden Mcnapp tossed because it was,

you know, 15 minutes late, right? So Paling, where's the tinted visor too, which would tell you that like there's some sensitivity there already. So that's unfortunate. And he eats some of the hardest minutes of any centerment in the NHL, Ryan Paling. All right.

The other game, the early game, it was Canadian Sabers, obviously. That series is tied after two. We see Buffalo come back and tie it last night. The story come out of that. That was, and maybe I'm just, maybe this is American hockey fan watching the American broadcast, but the, because there was a ton of focus paid on ESPN to the penalties.

But the story coming on that came to me was, was the penalties. There were seven called on Buffalo. There's four on Montreal. Buffalo, of course, ends up capitalizing more than Montreal does. Montreal goes one for seven on the power play, which I'd love to see how many times that's happened over the last couple years. Buffalo scores a couple. My take on the penalties is that every single one, like, and of course one of my buddies is a Sabres fan,

he's losing his mind over it. He's, you know, sending the diving Canadians memes from 2009, right, that are getting resurfaced again. Those are OG memes, man. Uh-huh. Yeah, it's an old, it's an old meme, but it checks out. Every single one of those calls was a no doubter. That's the wrench in the works when it comes,

when it comes all this stuff. And it was, it's similar to stuff we saw in Carolina, Philly where you're seeing high sticks and you're seeing just very, very blatant, you know, by the book, by the book penalties.

And it's clear that there's at least a couple series in this postseason where they're just, where they're not willing to let that slide. I don't have a problem with it. We were talking about it in the, in the group, in the group chat last night, boys.

But like, the, the point that I want to make here, is that this is what it looks like when the rule book when the rulebook gets called and this is something we hear year after year series after series from fan base after fan base it's mad about miss calls on their team is just called a rule book and i get it like that's that's that's fair like i i kind of agree but you got to remember if you're the buffalo savers in particular right now this is what calling the rule book looks like like if you get hit in the face with a stick and you

got in and you're bleeding a little bit it's four minutes that's that's the way it goes i've been saying for years when people say just call the rulebook you don't want that because and when i say you don't want that i don't even mean to be a bad thing because because i know frankie's got his i mean frankie loves the referee so he's a big ref guy in general yes so he's ref apologists Exactly. But I'll just, when people say, just call the rulebook, or they say, I just want, no, no, no. You want your team to get all the calls. And you've got it in your head that if they just called the rulebook, surely my team, I mean, maybe we'd give up a couple power plays, but we'd have nine every night. That's definitely the way it would work. No, you don't. Just don't say you want the rulebook call. Don't say you want consistency. Don't say you want any of it. Just say, I want my team to get a lot more power plays. The other, like, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, fans, fans should want that. You should want your team to get 10 power plays.

The other team to get none. It sounds wrong to say it. So, people have, have figured out these little code words for it. And, I mean, just call the rulebook. It, most nights is going to be 10 plus power plays between the two teams. Um, and, uh, and, and, and most fans don't like that. They turn around and complain, even though, they, got what they ostensibly were asking for.

But again, I'm not, I'm not Captain Ref, so let's let it. Let me just go get my striped jersey. Let's go. I have my striped jersey upstairs and I call Jacks. I call Kelly Frazier. He's a Kelly Frazier jersey. Yeah. Okay.

Here's my thing about the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the million penalties that get called. It'll happen for a little bit until everyone adjusts, because over the course of the history of the NHL, there have been different rule changes and implementation of things like obstruction or hooking or cross-checking or you name it, and the players have adjusted. How long does that adjustment take? I think that depends. But in the playoffs, like, if you look at that game last night, high stick is a high stick. It gets called every time. If you're Bowen-Byrm, why do you have your stick in the air? If you're, if you're Tage Thompson and you've taken offensive

zone penalties. It just happened, man. It just, like, it was last game. Like, why, why do you need to cross-check Kate and Gully from behind? Does that have anything to do with the play? So you're asking for it, as far as I'm concerned. And Buffalo wins that game last night, despite the fact that, and your Gentilla, your buddy is probably going to hate this, but this is what it is. That was a reckless game from the Sabres. The way they played and the way they acted when it comes to their penalties. And they got away with one because UPL played great and Montreal couldn't cash in on the power play. Simple as that. Matthia Samuelson is trying to cheat for offense. He's leaving Jake Evans all alone in front of the net and they score after. Yeah, guy. It's kind of reckless playing that way. And so I get it some degree,

some degree of credit to Lindy Ruff. I know like we're not crazy about giving that in these parts, but like he said it after the game. He was like, this is like, this is on, basically this is unsustainable. And it's our fault. It felt like the dam was the dam could break at any point in that game. And maybe if that game was a little bit longer, which it felt like it was the longest game ever played in regulation, the dam would have broke. But that is not a recipe for Buffalo to have success.

So listen, we can have the argument about call it like you see it, but a lot of those were just automatics. They're just, it's where it has to put his hand in the air. People were complaining about it in the, in the Philly Carolina series. And there's like,

it's like puck over glass stuff. like the most textbook like easy no brain or automatic calls that you're going to see it's like sometimes this stuff happens like I don't know one call I don't think should have been a penalty I will give Buffalo the one call it was the Zucker on Valeno where Valeno kind of toe picks a little bit but then Zucker gives them the business after so you what about the you made sure it was a penalty by doing that what about the rest was styling interference call what was your thought on that as a defenseman. That was close.

He had the big reaction to it. And I think that's partly what got people fired up. When you see a player react like that, you go, oh, this is going to be one of the games where we complain about the referee. If you don't think that Rasmus Dahlene knew he was trying to get a piece of Kate and Gully, you're fooling yourself. Like he knew he was going to get a piece of Gully. And Gully knew that he saw Dahlene's heels.

And he's like, well, he's going to get a piece of me. So I'm going to make sure everyone knows he got a piece of me type of thing. Like, sometimes it takes two to tango, right? But that's another one where, hey, we're putting ourselves in a situation where we don't need to do that. They did that a lot last night. So, so guys, this, this, it's been a good talk about this game. It's been a good conversation. I'm not sure if we got it quite right, though.

Could we, do you guys mind if we just ground everything to a halt for 15 minutes or so? And just, just to do a review? Because, I mean, we got to get this. What the heck was that? last night. A double review just to get 10 minutes, 10 minutes. 10 minutes.

And to figure out that something was a goal, which I have I look, I'm no big fan of replay review, but puck over the line, yes. That's a good use of review. And that was a case where the puck was in. Even the people who say, well, that shouldn't count as a goal. It's the same as the Oilers' Ducks one, right?

Like, we all know the puck is in. Now we're just looking because the NHL has trained us to look for the get out of jail free card where we can still not count goals. But then we get the long review to figure out if the puck is in. And then Martins Saint-Louis, I believe knowing perfectly well that he doesn't have a great case, challenges for goalie interference, because he knows game management, the ref if it's 6040 they don't want to call 6040 the same way two times in a row so he challenges on a very questionable goalie interference and he gets it and after 10 15 minutes we're back

where we started okay oh it's exciting isn't it it was it was riveting stuff as we were sitting there at the ts n studio we were on the edge of our seat but i don't know if you caught this the camera goes to Marty St. Louis on the bench. After the call? After the call got made, I knew you were going to say this. And he brings the official over. I can't remember if it was Kelly Sutherland or T.J. And he gets that look in his eye where he's like, like he's scolding you.

And he looks at him and he goes, it's goal interference. There's two I could challenge for. And basically what he's saying is the initial player that went through the crease. I think it was Hellenius. And then Samuelson going into the Crees. He's like, there's two there. And he's very animated about it. And sure enough he challenges.

And then whenever the call goes his way, whenever he finds out that it worked, no reaction at all afterwards. Like, like just complete, completely, complete poker face 100%. They were playing like crap before that. And that kind of woke them up. That was that 12 minutes helped help them find their legs a little bit for sure. Yeah. But you know what?

Hawk don't lie eventually. We got the delayed one here. Boy, that's, because it looked like it was all Montreal. And then suddenly the old bank shot. Amen. One of the forum ghosts must have wandered down into the corner at the wrong time and taken one off the bean because you guys want to know something. Like I call a lot of games in that building, obviously.

Yes, you do. And we see that. That Zamboni door is a huge issue. We see that all the time. Not every game, but way more often than, other buildings. And Dobish is aware of that, clearly, because watch him, it's a dump-in. A lot of, that's a very active goalie.

Usually he would be out there back playing a puck. He'll even body-check the boards to try and knock it down. Like, he's super aggressive, and he stays in his net because he knows that, and he still got burnt for it, because it was the most perfectly unlucky bounce that goes off his pad and in. He's playing it exactly the way he's supposed to. That's in. Defiance of like basic geometry.

It's one of those it's one of those balances where you're like, okay, I think who what are you going to do? One note before we move on from that. Ucopeca Lukanin, pretty good yesterday. He's 28 saves. He's got a goal saves above expected of about 1.6 on the game. Obviously replaces Alex Lyon for game four. Just quickly, boys. Like, do we do we go back to him for, for, for?

number five. Like, has he played his way back in for, for another start here? I tend to think he has. A hundred percent you do. This is not like, this is not true starter backup territory for the savers. They're like a number of other teams that need both goaltenders and have needed both goaltenders. And Luchanan was the guy who started the playoffs. He was the guy that was supposed to be the guy and he played excellent in the regular season. So yeah, you're going with Lukinen as far as I'm concerned now until he has a stretch where either he's, bad or the team is bad, but there's no way you're taking him out for next game. Yeah, not after a win unless it was one of those wild eight, seven type wins.

And I mean, I think this is probably, I was a little bit surprised Lindy Ruff made the change. I thought he might wait to play that card one more game. But I think if you're Lindy Ruff, you've got to really honestly ask yourself, do we see us winning the Stanley Cup with Alex the lion as the goalie, the rest of the way? and if the answer is no, then you've got to figure out a way to get back to your guy and they did it last night and it paid off. And so I think it's got to be him.

Maybe not the rest of the way. Because it feels like there's room for a lot of twists and turns in this series still to come. But yeah, for the next game at least. I feel like we thought this one was going to be short. Like for a split second, you're like,

is going to be shorter than people thought? And then I think yesterday disabused us of that notion. Game five is Thursday night. at 7 o'clock. We're going to hit a break. We got some breaking news here on the Wednesday show. We're going to talk about that after our little intermission here. Stick around.

All right, we're back. I guess who's not back. Craig Barubi is fired today by the Toronto Maple Leafs. John Chek announced that the club has parted ways with Baroube, who was their coach for two years, two years left on the contract. quote from Cheyke and the tweet, this decision is more reflective of an organizational shift

and an opportunity for a fresh start than it is an evaluation of Craig. Sean McIndoo, let's see if you can talk for eight minutes on interrupted. I feel like it's possible. You know what? I don't know if I can do eight minutes on this.

If the decision had gone the other way, then we might have been looking at 80 because, look, I loved Craig Barubei as a player. I liked him as a coach when they hired him two years ago. I thought he was the right guy, but it didn't work. Even year one, the record said it worked, but most of the rest of it didn't say that. Year two, obviously, complete disaster.

So I really felt like this was the first early test for the new management group, and I felt like this was an easy one, which scared me, because if they get the easy one wrong, then you just kind of throw your hands up and say, uh, we're, we're really in for it here. I mean, the, the only reasons that I believe that you keep Craig Barouba is number one, because ownership is going cheap and saying, we're not going to pay a guy not to coach. And that's bad. Or number two, because the new management group is doing what new management groups do and keeping their powder dry and saying, we're just going to pay a guy not to coach. And saying, we're just going to write off the first half of next year so that we still have a card to play and it buys us time and all of this stuff.

Which would also be bad. They didn't do that. They made the right call. I'm not, you know, it's an easy one. This is this on the on the SAT of fixing the Leafs, this was just filling your name in properly. But they could have screwed it up and they didn't. So good for them, I guess. It's the right call.

now we see obviously who they go out and get and we go from there. But I mean, at the very least, hey, I would have been beside myself if they had found a way to screw it up. They didn't. So thumbs up, I guess, to the new guys. And they did it in like a relatively normal time frame too. Like this wasn't this wasn't something that dragged on and something that was done relatively quickly. Like we should all be hesitant to give the Pelley regime all that much credit about anything here. I think we've learned that, but it happened in the time frame that it probably should have.

Also, this is something from Jeff Fayette. 2021 to 26, here's a list of the things that the Leafs, a list of statistical categories in which the Leafs have declined. Attempts 4 per 60, attempts against per 60, attempts share, expected goals 4 per 60, expected goals against per 60, expected goals against per 60, expected goal share goals for goals against goal share save percentage than pdo they're they're they're they're they have a higher shooting percentage now than they did in 2021 and that's not all on craig bruby like there's obviously been a talent drain really up and down the lineup and starts with it starts with

marner but extends all the way down especially relative to the last five years that's the kind of stuff that if you're a process minded person that that that you look at and you say this is just not this is just not sustainable it's not all on baroubi it's about roster attrition and whatever else but that just makes it borderline impossible to see the degradation in their performance at five on five over the last over the last few seasons under him it's it's just it just makes it it makes it really really tough um so yeah frank frankly i i don't know if i don't know if you got thoughts on on what comes next here or what kind of what kind of candidate you'd you look at if if if if fear them, but that's going to be, you know, the phase of the discussion that we move into here

shortly, I think. The candidate that you look for is whoever is Spencer Carberry 2.0 for me. Like, that's, that's who you'd be looking at. Someone who speaks the language of William Nealander and potentially Austin Matthews, if he's going to be around. Because, like, the numbers don't lie. Austin Matthews, in the time that Craig Barube has been the head coach is a 33 goal score and a 27 goal score, regardless of the fact that he missed games and he was hurt, that's what he was. And a lot of that has to do with the way the team was playing, the way he was used, the deployment. Yes, Mitch Marner's not there anymore. That can't be a crutch for every single thing.

And if you go back to the start of the season, we all kind of look at these models that everyone shoots out, Dom's got one, like everyone's got a model. You know, the consensus around 95 to 100 points for the Toronto Maple Leafs. They were nowhere near that. They were one of the worst teams in the NHL. Not all of that is injuries. Not all of that is roster construction. Like it's how the team played and how badly they underperform.

He might have been the right coach at the time when he first came in. As we sit here today, he's not the right coach for that group. He's not the right coach for the timing of where this group is at. Now, the only reason I'm surprised they would do this today is because if you're John Chica, you have so many bullets that you can fire early on, right? And if there was any kind of notion that someone above him wanted to keep Craig Baroubaugh on, you would say, okay, we'll keep him on, I'll keep that bullet. And as soon as I see things going south, then I will fire it.

See you in November. That's when we can hit that button. But it does make a lot more sense. If you truly are in the business of getting this team better and looking the way it's supposed to look and aligned with everything, Craig Brubay's not the right coach for that. He's a good coach, good guy, well respected. It's none of that. He's just he's not the right coach for this group at this point.

So it absolutely makes sense that you're changing him out. And you know what? A lot of new GMs would come in and they keep the coach because you get that initial patience from the fan base and you want to ride that out. That patience is not there in Toronto. We saw it at the press conference last week. We saw it in the reaction to the hirings. If I'm John Chica, I'm going to, if I'm being told like, hey, maybe we don't want to spend the money, I'm going, guys, I've been on the job a week.

And my feet are being held to the fire. I've got to, you know, I can't, I can't be keeping my powder dry. I've got to, I've got to come out firing. Frankie, would you, you're talking about the next Spencer Carberry. Is Bruce Cassidy? because that's the name we're going to hear in Toronto because it's the big name available. Is that an option or is that something for a team in a different situation than the Leafs are in? I think it's for something for a team in a different situation,

where you need a couple years to push yourself over the edge and try and win. Like the year Toronto lost to Florida in the second round, that's a good year for Bruce Cassidy. But you think Bruce Cassidy is the right guy to see through Gavin McKenna, starting his career or potentially some young guys that you could be trading for if Matthews isn't going to be here or Nealander's not going to be there. Like, that doesn't fit. A couple years ago, if Bruce Cassidy was available, he would be hired right away. But that is not, like, I think you're going with someone who's a little more forgiving at this

point than rather than someone who's a, details are great. But I think, I don't think he's as forgiving as he would need to be for a team that could potentially be going young and inexperienced. It's got to be a little bit of a longer play. Like, because Bruce Cassidy, you know, he's, look, he's great to the media. He's a great quote. He explains things better to reporters than anybody. Like, he's beyond successful.

This is a cup winning coach. Like, he has a place in the league at any time he wants one. When you hire that dude, in particular, the clock starts because guys get sick of And it takes, it takes probably two or three years. And then, you know, in most cases, I know he was in Vegas for a bit longer than that. But I don't know that that's, I don't know that that's the right. I don't know that it's, that it's the right time. I think I agree with.

Now, Nacquado, I know what you're going to say. You're like, this team doesn't have two years to waste, which, you know, fine. They might not. But I think there are two problems with Bruce Cassidy to Toronto. First of all, he doesn't fit the organizational culture because he's actually worked in hockey over the last few years. He's had a job. So, I mean, it's sorry, man, go find a subway that's hiring. Do that for three or four years.

And then maybe we'll circle back. The other thing is, you know, Frankie, you said, you know, a year ago, if Bruce Cassidy is available, Bruce Cassidy's not available right now, apparently. According to. He's not. The Vegas Golden Knights are not allowing anyone to talk to the coach that they fired. And, you know, we got the Craig Burube news this morning, which I don't think shocks anyone. But if you had had me bet on which coach we were going to find out was fired this morning,

I would have bet Chris Knoblock after the story emerged that the Oilers were trying to talk to Bruce Cassidy. That's got to be awkward, doesn't it? Like, how do you, short of a full denial, this never happened, we, this is our guy. How do you go back to Chris Knoblock when somebody knows it? It's crazy that you would be. You're swiping right on other coaches. Like, that's, that ain't right. No, that's, you got to, you got almost like mercy fire him at that point and put him out of his misery.

I don't know how, like, it's hard for him to keep credibility within the room with some of these guys when you've basically been dangling him. to be fired by saying you want to interview other coaches. So that'll be tough for him to come back to. You know, one name that just kind of popped into my head, and he's gained a lot of momentum in the last couple years because he won an HL championship is Mani Malhotra, who was on the bench in Toronto already, so would understand a lot of the intricacies of the organization,

and maybe it's flaws and where they've gone wrong and how to handle certain things. And from the time he's left to now, he's grown a lot as a coach, clearly, being a head guy in the HL. And he was on the staff with Spencer Carberry, who I said, Carberry 2.0. Like, is there something there that makes sense? Yeah, no, no lettuce. He checks the baldness box.

That's very important. No lettuce, I get it. Dude, can you imagine if they hired Manny Malhotra, a team with the first, with the first overall pick, they hire Manny Malhotra to coach them? Who is the best center in the 2026 HL draft? Oh, brother, get ready for it, dude. We just 4D'd our way, 4D chest our way into the next show. The Vancouver special right now is they're picking three,

and you could honestly make a serious argument for Caleb Malhotra to be picked at three if you're Vancouver, especially since you have no centerman, none. and he's the head coach of the HL team right now. Let's start pushing Dominoes down. If the Maple Leafs call up Vancouver and say we want to talk to Malhotra, if you're the Canucks

and you're looking at the season you just had and you're looking at the coach that you have. How about you put together a trade package for us? Well, you could do that. Or you could say maybe we need to move on from Madam Foot and we need to make sure that we keep our guy. Oh, man. I don't know.

And I mean, the last thing I'll say is we all assume If the Vegas Cassidy story is true, we all assume it's because Edmonton's in the division. Wasn't there a little, I feel like I remember there being something with Vegas and Toronto involving tampering last year. Maybe a little bit of blackmail got, you know, somehow happened into forcing a trade. Do you think Vegas would be super eager to help out Toronto or do you think they'd go, gosh, guys, there's very strict rules about tampering. And I mean, we all know we got to call the rulebook. Wink, wink, wink. So, no, I don't think Bruce Cassidy is going to talk to you either.

See, this is the kind of conspiratorial stuff that we only get when Leif's news breaks on the podcast. I'll show you my whiteboard in the next segment. I'll walk you through it all fits together. Go attach the string to it like during the break. We managed to make the playoffs about the Leaps. Look at us. We can do anything. Frankie, what's up, bud?

What's your schedule like this week? Just doing sports center hits And then May 21st Leaving for the Memorial Cup Getting exciting The Kitchener Rangers Punched their ticket to Kelowna last night Sweeping the Barry Colts

No one cares Work harder Oh That feels like it happened a month ago I completely forgot about that All right bud We'll talk you next week See you boys

All right there goes Frankie Sean McIndoo What have you learned What have we learned Sean? I learned that spite, as we've already discussed, every fan unanimously agreeing that we just have to call the rulebook, that you can just decide not to call the rulebook and everybody will be fine with it. And I learned this in the series we haven't talked about yet, the Colorado Minnesota series where Josh Manson appears to butt end, Michael McCarran, is called for a major on the ice.

appears to. We get a, say it with me, a lengthy review. Oh, they're so exciting. Oh, this is a lengthy review. And at which point the officials come back and say it's a double minor, but not a major. And as the resident rulebook nerd, I will point out that when it comes to but ending, it's one of those penalties in the rulebook where there is no minor. there is a double minor for attempted infractions and it is an automatic major for the infraction itself.

So in other words, they looked at that play of Josh Manson taking his stick and stabbing Michael McCarran in the head with it and said, you know what? That was an attempt, but I don't think he made contact. That was the result of that lengthy review. and we should point out the next day Manson gets fine. So the league is like, no, you did. You 100% made contact. But the fascinating thing for me was the reaction that I saw from a lot of fans online, Kevin Baxa on Hockeyn, Canada, people were like, yeah, that's about right.

That should be two minutes, or four minutes, rather. That shouldn't be a major. I guess if we don't like the rule, we can just not call the rule and people are okay with it. And then part of it too is that, McCarron's reputation, his bad reputation, came back and helped him. That was something Russo said yesterday on Twitter. Of course, I saw Mike getting into an argument with a random person over it, which is so unlike him. Basically saying that McCarrant, this is the direct quote from Russo, actually.

McCarron's been branded as an embellisher, plan and simple. He earned it earlier this season when he delayed the Wild Preds game five minutes to review a major he faked, and now he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. like Bruce is saying flat out that's why that penalty didn't get cold in game and it's like you can kind of see how that tracks because reps are like this dude is a faker like he has done this before

he like he faked it he faked his way through an entire review we're not getting God again and it turns out that it was like by the way is how it should be yeah if you if you are somebody who's a clear embellisher

diver faker whatever you want to call it You shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt. That clip, when you do something as dumb as he did against the wild, this is when he was still with Nashville, and it was Matt Zuccarello slashed him, got him in the leg, he starts shaking his wrist and skating around. Then yes, every referee should see that, and every referee should say, hey, man,

hope you enjoyed that power play. You got in November. You were never getting another one. It's the last one. Never getting another one. Yeah, that's how you get rid of this stuff, or at least reduce it. but yeah it is this we didn't talk a lot about the series is is this over is is there any path

to a minnesota comeback here do you think man it's tough it's tough to see there was it goes back to that game three game that they have and i feel like we we didn't talk about that at all because it fell between days i mean that's been we don't need to relitigate that but i i think that's when it flipped. Not even, not even last. It's, it is just, that's a, they're laying an egg there. To follow up the way that, the, the way that they won with the way that they lost, that's the kind of stuff that when you're playing, it seemed like Colorado, man. It's just, it, it feels like, it kind of feels like game over. To have Boldie and Caprizov in particular play the way they did, they did in that game, they're just trying to do way too much and it didn't, and it didn't work out.

So yeah, I'm of the mindset that this is just, that this is, if it's not over, tonight it's over in two days. It really does feel that way. And look, I don't know that there's ever been a 3-1 comeback that people said, oh, yeah, we all saw that coming. When the series gets to 3-1, I mean, it's, but usually there's at least a path you can kind of see that goes beyond maybe the goal he stands on his head, maybe this or that. I mean, it's just Colorado's been a bit better on everything and a lot better on a

handful of things. It's almost, it's almost tough to talk about the avalanche because it's kind of boring to say, oh, the team that was the best team in the regular season looks like also the best team in the playoffs, but they do. These guys are loaded. They're stacked and they're playing a real good wild team. But it's, and that's something you can extend to Carolina too in the east. Like, like it's just like they're better. It seems like they're better than everybody. So you try to find creative ways to say that, but you can only say it so many times. Yeah, and the other piece of this is, look, Carolina got a couple of, I wouldn't say easy matchups, but Ottawa, Philadelphia, not exactly a murderer's role.

Colorado's playing in Minnesota where Colorado had a first round by against L.A. and Minnesota had that very tough series, six games against Dallas. So this is the first playoffs in a while where it feels like the seating actually is coming into play. Being the number one seat in the conference, who would have thought is actually has actual benefits to it. I know. Not bad. Hey, I might actually watch them the regular season next year. It might matter. Not me. Forget it. What did you learn? I'm just going to steal Haley Salviens lead from Montreal, Minnesota in the P-Dub last night. It might have come a day later than scheduled, but on Tuesday night in a decisive game five of the PWHL semifinals between

the Montreal, Victoria and Minnesota Frost, the inevitability of Marie-Philippe-Puland came through. I don't want to say that I learned that Marie-Filippe-Pelan is the greatest women's occupier of all time, or that she's clutched like maybe nobody else in history of the sport. We knew that. But I kind of thought that with the way things went down, you have like a stomach bug or whatever it is that ran through Montreal's locker room,

delays that game a day. we know that Poulin is dealing with some sort of knee issue because we saw it. We watched the Olympics. Like she's been very cagey about what's going on, but she hasn't looked 100%. She's been gritting her teeth through a lot of this playoff run. I was briefly wondering whether she was going to have the opportunity to do that kind of stuff that she's done so many times before. And I was proven incorrect. She scores the decisive goal in that game, pushes Montreal through the,

the final ends Minnesota's two-season run at the top of the league to, you know, since its inauguration or since it's an inaugural season, rather. I'm not surprised by it, but I thought that maybe mitigating factors were just, we're just going to win out. Nope. It happened again. And I can't say I'm surprised. Ensured that we will finally hear the words in professional hockey, a Canadian team has won a championship, because we got Montreal

Ottawa and this is again another reason why this league is just better than the NHL. They let the Canadian teams win every now and that. Absolutely. Now they stack the deck in favor of the Canadian teams clearly. Yep. Absolutely. And it's and did I read this right? It's the first time in league history that a favorite or at least the higher seed has won a

a playoff. That's that's wild. We're in playoffs number three. first time a higher seat has won a series and it's the first time the Minnesota lost one period crazy it's all because I'm refully planned I saw a sign in the crowd yesterday they said bring Walter home for the Walter Cove it was it was like all the all the all the bring Stanley home crap you see what like with the NHL I do I do I do appreciate that even though I think technically the Walter homes the Walter Cups home is in Los Angeles because that is where Mark Walter

lives it's fine um but yeah Congratulations on that one. You guys deserve it. Pretty excited. As I say through, Gritted Teeth. What's your post this morning? I have not seen it because I was lining up the show.

I have got a post. I've made up another fake trophy. No. Decided that we're doing too much. We need a, the con smite is great, but your team has to win a bunch to win the cons smite.

And I don't think that's fair. I think we should reward. Exclusionary. Yeah. And, you know, maybe some people might have some punchlines about which team I cheer for and that sort of thing. But I've invented a fake trophy for the playoff MVP of the teams that get knocked out in the first round and gone back and retroactively. Is there one specific name for this trophy or does each team get its own individual name? It's the Dennis Maroon trophy named after the guy who had.

I think the second best playoff of anyone who lost in the first round that I was able to find back in the East six. I think he had like 13 points in a five game series. The guy who had the first, third, and fourth best, who probably should have the trophy named after him, unfortunately, is Theo Fleury. And I felt like maybe he has withdrawn, he has been withdrawn from consideration for all honorifics. Maybe we'd skip that one and we go with, we go with Marooq. So, yeah, you can find out if anyone on your favorite team has ever won the coveted Maruk trophy. Are you going to make a cuff?

Like, is there going to be a trophy that you pass around? Can you make it happen? Thanks. You know what? Damn, that's a nice, that's a nice community center, man. I'll see if I can get a, all right. Well, I'm going to read that. I'm going to hang up with you.

We're going to say goodbye to everybody. Thank you, Frankie. Thank you, Sean McIndoo. Shane and I got the next show. That is tomorrow the 14th of May. Haley's going to join us head to game one of the PWHL final. And we have an elimination game tonight as we have potential elimination game tonight as we have outlined. So enjoy that.

And we'll talk to you real soon.