The Athletic Hockey Show - David Poile 41 years as an NHL General Manager, Hextall & Fletcher under fire in Pennsylvania & McDavid continues his assault on NHL goalies

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

David Poile, the President of Hockey Operations and GM of the Nashville Predators, joins Rob Pizzo, Jesse Granger and Michael Russo on The Athletic Hockey Show roundtable to look back on his 41 years in the NHL as a General Manager, why he decided that now was the right time to step down, what the city of Nashville means to him and how excited he is that his old friend Barry Trotz will be taking over the position of GM with the Predators, this summer.Plus the roundtable discusses who is under bigger fire in Pennsylvania, Ron Hextall or Chuck Fletcher? We talk about Jonathan Quick in Vegas, Jon Cooper benching his stars, the Calgary Flames bouncing back from getting booed off the ice, Connor McDavid doing Connor McDavid things and could the NHL return to Atlanta for a third time?Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowLinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/NHLSHOWGo to Indochino.com and use code AthleticNHL to get 10% off any purchase of $399 or more.Try Peloton risk-free with a 30-Day Home Trial, New Members only. Not available in remote locations. See additional terms at onepeloton.ca/home-trial Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Piesel from CBC Sports, joined as always by Jesse Granger in Vegas and Mike Russo back in Minnesota. The post-trade deadline hangover, guys. How's it feeling for you guys?

Rousseau looks a little beat right now. Yeah, I know, no. Yeah, it's been a long day and night. for myriad reasons. Yeah, no, hey, you know, the Wild were super active, which always makes it fun. I was also, as we talked last week, with the Carolina Hurricane, so I got to write a big story with it then. I'm writing a big story about Arizona for Friday. But it was really cool to watch The Wild.

You know, they're obviously not the biggest names that they acquired here, but you get Klingberg for free, essentially. And, you know, the Marcus Johansson thing, after watching them for three games now. with Minnesota. It's making a lot of sense. And obviously, we'll see if Gus Nyquist and Oscar Sunquist can make impacts. But it's been a, you know, I'm glad it's over with because trade deadline day was crazy, guys. I mean, just the fact that really no big names, you know, really moved because everybody was off the board. Yeah, same here in Vegas. It's kind of the same story.

It's funny listening to Michael talk about the wild. Like the Golden Knights didn't add the big names. And that's for them, that's out of the ordinary, right? Like we were expecting Patrick Kane and Tim O'Meyer to both come to Vegas, and they end up with Teddy Blugher and Ivan Barbashev. And another big name that we'll get to later. But yeah, it was fun trade deadline. I'm glad it's over. All the speculation, especially covering Vegas, it's nonstop speculation from basically everyone in North America on who they're going to trade for.

So I am happy to be passed it and excited for the playoffs, the run to the playoffs. Well, one of those GMs that was obviously active throughout the entire thing is now going to be a retired GM in the very near future. David Poyle is going to be joining us in the second half of the show. 41 years, guys. He has been a general manager of a national hockey league team. So stick around for that. But it's been a little bit of a lot. And Rob, I think it'll be interesting to talk to him about that because, you know, I mean, trade Geno, Nino and Eckholm.

And yet they still keep on getting points and are close to that playoff spot. We'll see his thoughts on that whole thing. Yeah, for sure. It's been a little over a week since the trade deadline, and fans are kind of reacting in different ways, especially those Eastern Conference teams that, you know, they geared up, they got a big name, they're excited for the playoffs.

And then you've got other fans who are, for lack of a better term, they're just pissed off. And a lot of those fans are in Pennsylvania, guys. You've got two GMs there, Ron Hextell in Pittsburgh, and of course, Chuck Fletcher for the Flyers. And they have just been, it seems like raked over the coals over this last week, mainly because of their inability to make some moves.

Ron Hextall with so many teams around him making moves, didn't really do much. You mentioned the Bluger deal, Jesse. Then you got Chuck Fletcher. One of the biggest shocks to me was that JVR, James Ann Reamstike, is still in Philadelphia. And all you have to do is Google Philadelphia Flyers or Pittsburgh Penguins and look at some of, you know, the venom being spewed their way. and you'll see that these two guys are taking it in the teeth right now. Who do you think deserves the most criticism between these two GMs? Jesse? It's honestly, I think I'm going to go with Hextall.

Just because Pittsburgh was like this is the last bit of their window, right? Like to me, it's, yeah, did the flyers screw up by not making any moves and not maybe fast forwarding this rebuild a little quicker? probably, but I don't think it's as crucial in the grand scheme of their timeline, whereas with Pittsburgh, it's like that window, if it's not already closed, I think some would argue it's closed. But if you're the team and you're the general manager, you're arguing that it's not quite closed and it just felt like they made that trade to get Teddy Bluger out of Pittsburgh and they opened up some cap space. And everyone kind of thought, oh, are the penguins going to load up with someone like the other Eastern teams have?

and then they didn't. And I don't think there's any way you can argue that the penguins are a contender in that stacked Eastern Conference now. And it's like, are they wasting the last couple strong years from Malkin and Crosby? So to me, I didn't like what either team did, but I think it's more of a big deal for the penguins just because the time is running out. Yeah. And, you know, I'll probably, I'll go with Chuck, although, you know, the one thing, that I think is a little weird is him getting all this flack that JVR wasn't traded. I mean, I don't know what people thought JVR was going to get traded for. I mean, I don't know in a rebuild if it is just

an egregious thing that you couldn't somehow move JVR for a fifth round pick. I mean, you know, I've been saying all along that JBR, great guy, by the way, but he's having a horrendous season. Yes. Doesn't play with pace. There's a reason why none of the playoff contenders wanted them even for a mid-link draft pick. And I mean, that's just, that's just reality. So when you can't move them, I don't think that it's just the GM's inability to move them. JVR made himself unmovable. This is a rental that costs essentially nothing that they could have, anybody would have

just could have taken and they didn't. I think where Chuck really has made a lot of mistakes is just some of the horrendous contracts that he's given out. Now, some of it has been really unfortunate, like Farabee's having a really tough year and all that stuff. But, you know, I thought that Kevin Hayes, Hayes deal, even when it happened was, was, you know, I'm, maybe it's just me. I'm not a big Kevin Hayes guy. The Rist of Lining contract. I mean, there's some just bad things there and they've made some bad

decisions and this team has just continued to aggress a couple years ago. They were look like, they look like a team that was absolutely on the rise and now they're not. And so he is completely under the gun right now. And, you know, knowing Chuck as well as I do, I do feel for him because he is just such an incredible human being. But man, is he just getting a nigh. right now and um and it's probably just because this team is just it's it just feels like it's stuck in mud so on the tiebreaker all right i'll take bro next all uh and by the way to to further your point there rob and jesse yeah who signed jvr that to that five yeah it was it was that 35 million dollar deal years ago it was it was not chuck fletcher i yeah flyers fans are still

blaming him for the for just I got some buddies that are Flyers fans they're still blaming X-Dahl so he's he's getting his fair share of blame from so so sir poor he's just getting it like you got Pittsburgh and Philly fans both sides of Pennsylvania yeah he's just not liked in Pennsylvania right now no I'm for a lot of the reasons jessey said I mean you don't not even just the trade deadline for me look at the last he's had two trade deadlines and two off seasons to improve this team and not like you said Jesse it's not a slow improve you side you're Crosby, you got Crosby, Malkin, LaTag. You got that core for, like, you're literally squeezing the last bit of juice out of that core.

Yeah. You got to give them something to go into these playoffs that would give you a little bit of a hope or chance to beat Carolina or Boston. He said after the trade down there, this is a team that can win the Stanley Cup. I respectfully disagree. Like, there's just no way they could compete with the teams in the East with the roster they have right now. You know, and one point to that, like, that's why I was a little surprised.

I know it's a tough decision because he's a lifer, but I was surprised at the Malkin contract because, you know, to me, I think one of the toughest things and one of the things that probably Ron had to do there when he went there was really make some tough decisions on their older core and sort of begin the process of restarting that franchise. I mean, good things come to an end, and at some point, Crosby is going to be gone too. And that to me, you know, a lot of wild fans here in Minnesota, they always rip on the dead money that the wild have for Preciar or Souter. But we all know when Chuck Fletcher signed 13-year-N-N-8 million-dollar deals for Zach Preezy and Ryan Souter, that it was going to eventually end poorly.

It was going to be a huge problem for the organization. And it would not be Chuck that would have to deal with the lasting effects. And Bill Garen, like the decisions or not, came in here and said, you know what? Devin Dubnick, you're gone. Eric Stahl, you're gone. Zach Perisi, you're gone. Ryan Suter, you're gone. He went, I'm probably forgetting a couple, too.

He took all the aged veterans and said, adios. And it was tough, but it had to be done at some point. And I think that's probably what Ron had to do is sort of begin that process and say, sorry, guys, I know Malkin could still perform, but signing him to this contract, maybe it's nonsensical. And that would be the one thing. I mean, obviously, I'm not in their shoes. and I'm not totally, you know, attuned with every single decision that the penguins have to make.

But I think that's the hardest part of a GM, especially a new GM that comes in, is to say to the, you know, to these fans that absolutely love certain players at its time. Well, let's think in the East for a second here because that wildcard race is, man, is it ever heating up. Right now you got the Islanders at 74 points with 66 games played. Pittsburgh at 73 points with about three games in hand. Not about three games. They got three games in hand. And then following that up, you've got Florida at 70 points, Ottawa, Buffalo, and Washington at 68. And man, have Ottawa and Buffalo made a race of this?

Yeah. Two teams that, you know, most of us thought were done and dead in the water. And suddenly they're within striking distance. Who are your two wildcard teams, guys? I know we got some time left, but let's make some picks here. Who are the two teams getting in in the wildcard in the east? Russo? I actually still think the islanders are going to make it. I know that they have played a couple more games than everybody else, but they are playing great hockey right now.

I think they've won, uh, that points in eight or their last 10 at least. And they're playing great defensively. They got the goaltender, which to me is the biggest thing. And the other team, I still think, um, is going to make a run as Florida. Um, they always do at the end of the year. Um, I think that they have that chance. I love what Ottawa and Buffalo are doing, but you look at points percentage wise are still on the periphery.

They still seem to every now and then have those stinkers guys as well. So Florida is still the team that I think is going to probably overtake maybe Pittsburgh. Yeah, I kind of agree with Michael. I have the Islanders getting in. I actually picked Buffalo. But yesterday we had to make our picks for the athletic and I picked Buffalo. But I think it might just be picking with my heart more than my brain. It would be so much more fun if Buffalo and or Ottawa get in.

I feel like the Eastern Conference, this is probably not factually correct. the listeners, I'm sure can let me know how wrong it is. But I feel like we've had the same eight teams in the Eastern Conference playoffs for like 30 years in a row. It's the same matchups every year. And if the Penguins and Islanders are the two teams that get in, we're going to see the exact same matchups we've seen for years. And we know neither of these teams, Pittsburgh and the Islanders are not beating those top six teams. It's not happening. The top six teams in the East are so good.

And that's why this race is fun because it feels like the top six are the top six. And good luck beating any of those teams because they're absolute monsters. And they all got better at the deadline. And then you've got these like five teams right here. And to me, none of them are probably going to do much in the playoffs, but just in terms of storyline. Just getting to the dance. Right. Right.

When you turn on your TV for playoff hockey in its first round, tell me it's not more exciting to see the Sabres up there than it is the Islanders or the Penguins who have been there every year for the last however many years. It's probably going to end up being, I think, Florida and in New York, but it would be so much more fun if Buffalo and or Ottawa can sneak in there and give us some fun. And both of those teams have good young, good young stars, too, that you'd, I want to see Tate Thompson in the playoffs. I want to see Tim Stozel in the playoffs.

I want to see those guys get that taste where, look, expectations are in the basement. You're not getting, you're not getting past the first round, but here's a little taste of what playoff hockey is all about. Yeah, I agree with you. I like the soft spot me is actually rooting for Buffalo. Plus I was, I've been around them a lot this year, just doing some national stuff.

And I agree with you. I mean, between Thompson and Deline and, and Don Granato is one of the classiest people in the world. As, yeah, we all know, you know,

I covered Kevin Adams too. Great guy. We had him on this podcast about, back in December. Um, but could you imagine like you're, hey, we made the playoffs and here's the Boston Bruins.

Uh, you know, it's just here's the Carolina Hurricanes. You got nothing to lose. It's like a rocky, Cinderella type story, right? Yeah, no, it's true. But, you know, to Jesse's point,

there are these powerhouses at the top between Carolina and, and Boston that I just would not want to play them in the first or second round, for that matter. You know, the other team, I'm sure you're going to get to this that is concerning is Tampa Bay right now. Like, what is going on there? You're jumping ahead the script, Bruce. So you're jumping ahead in the script.

Oh, sorry. This is why I got to start. This is why I got to start. This is why I got to start looking at the script. Like Jeff Do Matt worked so hard on this and I never even look at it. I know. And that's the look at you. Just pump it away good info though, even though you don't look at what we're going to talk.

You know what? Let's just jump ahead. I'll switch things around in the script just for you. Because yeah, we had some drama on Saturday night with two different teams, one of which is the team you talked about, the Tampa Bay Lightning. I think if Nikita Kutcheroff, Stephen Stamcoast and Brayden Point, stole my car, I still wouldn't bench them, but that's just me. But John Cooper's got a different style of coaching.

They were losing the Sabres and benched them for the entire third period. There's a great shot of Nikita Kutrov on the bench with his gloves off and his arms folded. And according to John Cooper, quote, as coaches, you got to put the team in the best position to win. 99.9% of the time, those guys give us the best chance to win when they're on the ice. Just felt for the third period, they weren't giving us the best chance. to win. That was drama number one. Drama number two, the flames got booed off the ice. They're on the outside looking down on the Western Conference.

Playoff race and Daryl Sutter supported the fans that, you know what? I would boo too. Which one of those two things made you raise your eyebrows higher and maybe piqued your interest? Rousseau, I wonder which one you're going to pick. Well, I mean, just look at, let's just see which team responded. The Calgary Flames, since they were booted off the ice, has won two big games in a row. and the lightning go to Carolina and play the worst game I think I've ever seen a team play.

You know, it sure felt like that as a, I'll just, you know, say it. I mean, a ballsy, but, and I'm sure it didn't come with, you know, forethought. I'm sure this was, this was coming for, for, you know, several days, maybe weeks where John Cooper was going to make this example with the way that they've been playing lately. But when you sit there in bench point, Stamco's and Kutraff, it can go one of of two ways. Either you wake up everybody else and say, wow, this is awesome. Everybody's getting treated the same. Or you have three guys that basically say, you know what? How about this? We'll see if we show up in Carolina. And it seemed like it went the other way. I mean, Carolina just dominated that game. Tampa didn't have a shot in the second period. They had one even strength.

They had no even strength shots from a forward through two periods. Just absolutely awful. And I just, you know, I do think that sometimes we get a little ahead of ourselves. It's Seems like every year we talked about during a lightning rut that they're about to take a nose dive. And, you know, so I'm a little scared to do that again. But what we saw from the lightning the other day was absolutely alarming. Yeah, and I'm the other way. The year Tampa Bay falls off, I'm going to be dead wrong because I just refuse to believe this team isn't awesome. And until I see it.

And I mentioned earlier, I think they're playing possum. And I think the same thing for Colorado. I think Colorado has the seventh best record in the Western Conference right now. To me, they are the runaway favorites to win the West. I don't even think there's another team within a mile of the Colorado Avalanche. And they're in seventh place right now. Tampa Bay, they've got a little more competition in the East. But I don't think, I think Tampa's closer to Boston and Carolina than they are to the teams that they're around in the standings.

And I just think that they're bored right now. They are done with the regular season. I think that's probably part of the reason they got benched is their star players are done with the regular season and their coach isn't pumped about it. But I think that that team, assuming they make the playoffs, which it doesn't look like they're in any danger of missing the playoffs, assuming they get in, you don't want to play that team. If you're Boston, you don't want Tampa to be the eighth team and you're getting one of

these wild cards. Like, screw that. Toronto is begging Tampa Bay to fall out of that third spot so they don't have to play them in the first round. I think this team is still really, really good. and they've got elite players at every position from forward to defense to the best goalie on the planet. That team's still really good. I think they are asleep right now and they're not showing up every night and their coach is pissed about it.

But when the game start to matter and when they start to mean things, maybe I'll be wrong. One of these days I will be wrong because they'll eventually fall off. But for now, I am sticking with Tampa is still a really, really good team that it wouldn't surprise me at all if Tampa comes out of the east, despite how good Boston Carolina are. I like how you call them. I like what you said that they're playing possum because maybe that's what they're doing. It's sort of grand scam, scheme is to give false hope to those Toronto Maple Leafs. And then they're just going to come in there and just,

bam. They got the team to do it and they got the goalie to do it. I'm surprised Jesse didn't bring up goaltending there. I said best goalie in the world. Oh, did you? I missed it. All right. Let's switch gears here for a minute, guys.

For the third show in a row, Jonathan Quick is on another NHL hockey team. Three shows ago, he was in LA King. Last week, he was a Columbus Blue Jacket. This week, he is a Vegas Golden Night as he was bounced around at trade deadline time. We talked earlier about people, you know, slinging mud at GMs. You know, quite a few people believe, given his resume as an LA King, that this is, I don't know if I want to say disrespectful, but they just think this is not the way you treat someone who's done so much for the Kings.

I want to start with you, Jesse, obviously, because you cover the Vegas. Golden Knights. What are your thoughts on that and just what you saw from him in game number one? Because obviously, he's not there to be the savior, you know, between the pipes. He's there to do what, you know, goaltenders in this position do, weather and injury storm. But your thoughts on the whole Jonathan Quake situation. Yeah. I mean, in terms of Rob Blake and the Kings in the position they were in, it's a tough spot. It's tough spot because, yes, he is probably going to have a statue outside staples, crypto, whatever the hell they're going to call it. I mean, there are a million statues.

Like, I've never seen an arena with more statues outside. So I'm sure Quick will have seven statues out in front of that building eventually. But at the same time, the kings are in second place. And now they're tied with the Golden Knights in first place in the Pacific Division. And they're doing it with the second worst team save percentage in the entire NHL. Like, teams that have the second worst save percentage in the league are generally looking for Connor butard, not in first place in their division. So you look at your team and you say, man, this team is playing so great. We're top five defensively. We have goal scores. The only thing we aren't

getting right now is goaltending. And it's not like they gave up on Jonathan Quick after a bad month. Like he hasn't been good for five years. He has been, when the Golden Knights traded for him, I dug up all the stats. In the last five years, he ranks 49th of the 50 goalies with enough starts in save percentage. Like, the only one worse is Martin Jones. It's not like this is a couple bad months for Jonathan Quick, and they said, oh, toss him to the curb. So he's been bad this year. He's, I think, ranks 91st out of 93 goalies in goals saved above expected.

I'm talking he is one of the worst goalies in the NHL on the ice this season. So it was a tough decision for the Kings. They got a better goalie in Corpusalo. In terms of what he brings to Vegas, you mentioned it. I don't expect Jonathan Quick to start playoff games for the Golden Knights. I think right now they were in a bad injury spot. Obviously, Robin Lennar out for the season. Logan Thompson comes in, has played really well.

He was in the All-Star game. He goes down. They don't know when they're getting him back. It could be as long as until the playoffs. They do expect him back at some point this season. Then Loren Breswa comes in. He is playing really well. He goes down.

They don't know when they're going to get him back. And then to make it even worse, Aiden Hill, the only goal, the only goal, goalie they have left was just coming back from an injury and has a history in his career of being injured quite a bit. Like he hasn't been able to stay healthy for most of his career. So you've got an injury prone goalie just coming back. And they've got a schedule where they play every other night. And they're sitting there like, are we really going to play Aden Hill every other night for the rest of the season and expect him to stay healthy? Probably not. And the backup behind him was Michael Hutchinson, who has really struggled at the NHL level for a few years. They sent him to Columbus in that

trade. And I think they blew a four nothing lead last night. As much as I love Michael Hutchinson, he seems like an awesome guy, not the goalie you want to trust your playoff hopes on. So they said, okay, we can get Jonathan Quick for relatively cheap, basically nothing. Let's bring him in. We can mix him up with Aden Hill, give Aden Hill some nights off to keep him healthy. I don't even think, even right now with Thompson and Breslau out, Jonathan Quick's still not the number one goalie on this team.

Aidan Hill is still the Golden Knights top goalie. So he's a veteran presence. he brings a good leadership to the locker room, a goalie room that I just mentioned all these names. None of these guys have any playoff experience. So I don't think it can hurt having Jonathan Quick around these guys going into the playoffs. So a low risk, low reward kind of move for the Golden Knights. I don't expect a lot of people are like, are they going to get the old Jonathan Quick and he's going to lead this team to the Stanley Cup?

No, I don't think so. It's been a long time since he's been good. But I also don't think it hurts much to bring a guy in with that much experience. Yeah, I mean, you know, back to the original question, like in terms of Rob Blake, you know, I guess the only thing that I would say is it's, is, and I get, gather it wasn't going on was just communication with Quick to say, look, you know, there is a chance that we might have to do this. And, and, but to get back to my Hextall thing with Malkin, you know, I think that's part of the job when you're a GM is you've got to make really tough decisions. And sometimes you have to pull the plug on beloved players. And John DeQuick had an incredible career in L.L. but good things have to come to an end at some point. And to Jesse's point, his game has crumbled the last two or three years. He's probably close to being out of the league and that this had a move.

And I'm glad that the Columbus Blue Jackets really helped him to at least get him back to a playoff team. I love the Blue Jackets and their social media department with their awesome, awesome tweet that basically said our time with you. It was quick, but memorable. Thanks, Jonathan, quick. And, you know, I'll say this. I just, I love. I just love the social media teams on a lot of these teams. At first, you know, when some of these teams were doing stuff, I'm like, oh, this is unprofessional. They're just awesome. It's like when the, it's like a couple weeks ago when Anaheim and L.A. had the big thing where there was almost a goalie fight between, I think, Gibson and Phoenix Copley and the ducks tweeted out that Copley wanted none of this. And then the Kings fired back and said, Copley has more wins than you have his team or something like. It was something like that. Like, I just. love, I just love it. I think it's great stuff. And it makes it fun. These, these social media

departments are so creative. And, uh, kudos to the Blue Jackets. By the way, I totally agree with you on the point of communication. Like, talking with Jonathan Quick once he got here to Vegas, like he was genuinely shocked and caught off guard by it. And I think that's part of, like, you heard the reports that he didn't take it well getting traded. I think you're totally right. If Rob Blake had gone to him ahead of time and kind of prepped him for this, hey, the goaltending hasn't been very good. We are looking at options at the deadline. There's a chance you could get moved.

I think that the overall, like the taste in your mouth that that leaves is a lot better than it was. It's just the communication should have been better. A couple more things before we get to David Poyle. It's that time of every single show that we've done this year where we pump the tires of one Connor McDavid because over the last week, he established a new career high with 124 points with 17 games left to go. He's on pace to finish with 156 points. That would be the most points in a season in NHL history by anyone not named Wayne Gretzky

or Mario Lemieux. Unless the world stops, he's going to win his third straight scoring title, the fifth of his career. Only Gretzky Lemieux and Gordy Howe have more scoring titles. And he has 54 goals in just 64 games. He's on pace for 68 and his first Rocket Richard trophy. can anything stop this guy? I mean, it's it's now becoming video game like. And again, so many times throughout history, we say, well, 80s, you can't compare them to 80s and

early 90s players because it was a different era. Well, now we can because the numbers are actually comparable. Russo. Yeah, he's just ridiculous. In fact, about five, 10 minutes ago when I saw it on the script, I almost brought it up just to just piss you off and jump out again. everybody needs to know that we're going to talk about McDavid every single thing. I mean, this guy, he's, I mean, I just cannot believe that he's in the same league with all these other players that are all great hockey players. I mean, there are some sensational hockey players in the National Hockey League. This guy's on a different planet. It really is unbelievable in a sport that is this quick, this congested.

I mean, I cover a team that never scores and still always wins every night. to Jesse's point about the same percentage of the LA Kings and somehow they keep on winning, the wild never score and yet win every night basically. And yet, like, I look at that at this team that has some pretty freaking good players on the wild and they cannot score. Then you look at McDavid and you turn on Edmonton games and you watch this guy just on like a video game level. It's just amazing.

We need to all, and what's thankfully, he's still young, but we need to all cherish every single minute that he is in this sport. Yeah, I mean, he's just on another level. I mean, I think he's 28 points clear of Dreisidel, who's the second highest score. And then if you just take out his teammate who has a bunch of those points because of him, I think he's like 35 points clear of the next non-oiler in the league. Like, there's no one even remotely close. Just because I cover the Golden Knights, like I look like Jack Eichol's been on fire lately. And he's got 15 points in the last 12 games. And I think that would be the worst 12-game stretch of Connor. David's season. Like, like, you watch, I watch Jack Eichel every night. I'm like, this guy is amazing. Like, I can't believe how good he's playing. And then you look at those numbers.

And then McDavid's got like, he's got over a goal, a game over his last 10. Not a point a game, a goal a game. It's just like even the other stars in the league are just nowhere close to him. He's the best player on the planet. And it's kind of ridiculous how big the gap is because like you mentioned Gretzky and Lemieux, like the, there wasn't as much. parody. Like there weren't as many good players back then. And McDavid's doing it in an era where there's so many good players and so much talent and he's just light years ahead of everyone. And such,

you brought this up a few shows ago, I think. You look at the same percentage in the 80s versus the safe percentage. It's it's harder, much, much harder to score goals and he's making it look easy. Five straight games with two goals, that's that's bananas. I mean, we're starting to bring up Joe Malone in the early 1900s when you talk about things like that. So I think if you're retired tomorrow, we're talking all time great. And all that's missing is a big silver trophy to really cement that legacy. Did you just say that Connor, the way I interpreted that is you said Connor McDavid is no Joe Malone. Is that how is that the way?

That's exactly what I said. I mean, back in the early 1900s when they were still trying to figure out what this whole hockey thing is, Joe Malone was scoring a lot of goals. So, you know, Joe Malone was my, Joe Malone was my favorite player as a kid. It's impossible. I don't know who Joe Malone is. No, I mean, I've heard the name.

Yeah. Like I said, he had five straight games with two goals. I think it was 1920 or 1919, somewhere in that area. Every time a goal record is brought up, it's Joe Malone. He had seven goals in a game. That's still the record. But it's like I said, back when they were still figuring, like people like on the ice on a pond they're like okay well we'll just start keeping records now it's

it's a little different than then now so yes he's no joke my self-deprecating age joke was a reminder that last week rob pizzo said that he was in high school when i covered the first ever predator's game that pissed me off i'm usually the old guy so it's nice uh having somebody else here and jesse's jesse's the pop of the group um before we go to break guys uh we had some tough news this week in the world of hockey anheim ducks assistant coach mike stothers announced he's battling stage three melanoma of the lymph node. So we just wanted to say from everyone here at The Athletic, from the show, everyone in the hockey world obviously reaching out,

like to wish him the best. He's going to begin treatment over the next couple weeks. So we just wanted to wish him the best in that battle. It's a tough one. We're all here with you. After the break, David Poil, president of hockey operations and general manager of the Nashville Predators for the time being.

So guys, last week when we were going through our news, as we always do, one of the big pieces of news, of course, was that David Poil was going to be retiring as general manager of the natural predators. And if you remember, I don't like to recycle lines, but I made the joke that he's been doing it so long. He took over that post when I was still in high school. And Russo was like, you're aging me. You're aging me here. And I think I shortchanged a man with such a long and storied career. So I'm going to do that again. Our next guest is completing his 41st consecutive year as an NHL general manager, more than anyone else in the history of the game, David Poyle, GM of the National Predators, joining us on the

athletic podcast. Congratulations on a great career. And thank you so much for doing this. Thank you. It's been a long time. None of it has set in. I mean, everything is happening so quickly in terms of the whole announcement part, hiring Barry Trots, the trade.

trade deadline, trying to finish the season in the correct way, upcoming draft in Nashville. So it's going to be a busy three or four months before I get to quote unquote retirement. And it's not really quite retirement because I'm going to have an advisory position with the predators, which was really important to me. And I'm so grateful that the owners are doing that because I, you know, I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to be living in Nashville. And I think it's important to me personally, and I hope it's important to them that I have some connection to the team.

So it's going to set in in a while, but it hasn't just yet. I know when it's all said that, and I look back and say, but you said 41 years, like, you know, there's records and then this is going to be a tough one to be. Well, Bill Guerin's first year as the GM here in Minnesota, David, that was your 37th year. and he pointed out to me yesterday how just absolutely unbelievable that is. Can you kind of bring us through the decision process? I mean, obviously, you know, I think that a lot of people were definitely caught off guard the other day because I think when you think the National Hockey League, you think David Poyle, can you bring us through the decision process and how important

was Barry part of that process? Well, it was two parts of the decision, the personal side and the hockey side. On the personal side, you know, I now watched lots of people retire over the years and they seem to have a common theme and that wanting to spend more time with family and I didn't know if I would really feel like this was the right time. And again, to be honest with you, I'm not totally sure sold on that. On the personal side, I think it's, I have missed a lot of time with my wife, my family, a couple kids, we've got three grandkids, there's certain things my wife and I want to do. As I say, let's do this while we're young. So I totally want to retire because of that.

My wife jokes that we've been married 51 years, but she only tells people we've been married 25 because I've been gone at least half the time. So I think you all understand that part. The second part, the hockey side is I think those that know me, I mean, you're not in this game for this long unless you really, really love what you're doing. And I really love what I'm doing. I'm the luckiest guy going here. The only job I have ever wanted was to be a general manager of an NHL team, and here I am.

I'm going to give up that job. So that's not easy to do. But I guess you say what trumps my love of the hockey is specifically the love of the predators. And I want to end this on the best possible way that I can end this. I really am proud of what we've done here in Nashville in terms of non-traditional hockey market and to now from Nashville to smashville to all the sellouts. And I think everybody and talking to you guys in the media, everybody loves coming to Nashville's buildings located in the best possible place of all 32 franchise in the NHL.

Coming to a game is fun. You go for a drink and go get something to meet before the game. You come into the Bridgestone Arena. You have a great time at the game, win or lose, and then you spill out to Broadway to have more fun. I mean, it's really hard to have a bad time coming to a game in Nashville. And, you know, bigger than that, I mean, we're a huge part of it. the community now, our players, our staff, everybody's a fantastic job in the community. Preds are very popular here, so I really see this franchise being very successful for,

you know, hopefully forever. And I say that with the fact that the early years were not easy. For those that can remember, we almost moved to Hamilton and the team was almost sold and Craig Leopold decided to sell the team and he eventually moved to Minnesota. So I'm very proud of what we've done on the ice and off the ice, but here's the punchline. As proud as I am where we are the last eight years, including a trip to the Stanley Cup final as the President's trophy and making the playoffs, we were starting to go downhill a little bit. We're in this, what I call this mushy middle, and we just can't seem to get out of it. And I think if we were to make the playoffs this year, it's still the same story.

It's going to be hard to win a playoff round. So I'm proud that we've done everything we can to get there. But I think we need to take a step backwards to take hopefully several steps forward and not only get in the playoffs, but get back to competing in the playoffs and having a chance to win the Stanley Cup. And I think it's really actually played out the way I thought it would play out. This year we've been not as good as I maybe thought a little bit more inconsistent that you have to be to be a playoff team.

And thus we, you know, we were a seller at this. at the trading deadline and that's reflected in, you know, really trading for very, very good hockey players to take that step back. What we gained in that was a lot of currency, mostly in draft picks and one really good young player that we got from Edmonton. I think as I passed the torch to Barry Trots that what we have in really good shape is the draft 13 picks this year in the draft in Nashville, which I think is important, a couple of first round picks, a couple of second round picks. We have a couple extra

picks in 24. We got an extra first round pick in 25. So I'm really pleased with that. Secondly is the road to Nashville is through Milwaukee, and we will have five first round picks playing in Milwaukee next year. So if we've drafted correctly, I think the step backwards to get to the step forward should be hopefully fairly, fairly quickly. And then the third part, despite what I just said about the inconsistent part of our year, we still have good players. I mean, we started a goaltending that UC Cerros gives you that chance to win every night.

We've got one of the best defensemen in the league in Roman Yose, and we've got some scores in Dushan and Borsberg. And we've already integrated some younger players into our lineup, like totally changed our center race, we've got Parsons there, Novak blast. We just brought up a younger player in Bill Tomasino, another younger player in Luke, Banjavisto, a couple of goals the other night.

So I think the process has already started. Long-winded here, but the last part is the very trust part of it. When I told the owners last year that I was, this is going to be my last year, they wanted the list of people that, you know, could be general managers and I had my three assistants, my son Brian, Jeff Kelty and Scott Nicol at the top of the list. And they wanted to expand that list. And I said, well, if we're going to do that,

then I'm going to, this decision won't be made until after the season, because a lot of people that I would have in mind are currently working. So as the story goes, Barry lost his job in the summer. I've been trends with Barry for 40 years. He came as a player to my first training camp in Washington as a GM. So we've had a good relationship, obviously, being a coach here in Nashville for 15 years. And he was offered every job this past off season as a coach. And he turned him down.

He had family things he won't want to deal with. I think he probably needed to step back and have a little bit of a year off. So as time went along, we kept talking and I told him of my situation. And eventually, I'd say around Christmas time approximately, he told me that he would be interested if I was interested in that. When he told me that, everything sped up really, really fast and got him in front of the ownership. And I'd say by the middle of January, we probably had a deal in place. and all during that period of time, I was meeting with Barry,

who's coming out of my house, different things like that. So he was totally in concert with me in terms of where we're going with the franchise and the moves that we were making. So for me, it's like, this is like a book. It's like maybe this is,

I want to say it's the last chapter, but it's certainly full circle from 40 years ago, him coming to training camp as a player, to hire him as a scout, to hire him as an assistant coach. in the minor leagues to a head coach to the minor leagues to hire him as the head coach and the national predators loaning him. This is my other humor.

Loaning him after we knew his contract in 14-15, loaning him to Washington to win a cup and then loaning him to the great general manager of Blue Amarillo's to get some more education. So I think so lonely, I've probably been training Barry for this for a lot of years. So that's the story and I'm sticking to it. That's so awesome. You mentioned your relationship with Barry and how long it is. I feel like throughout this tenure, I mean, this league turns over coaches so quickly. And you've obviously gone against the grain in that pretty heavily. I mean, three coaches in 25 years in Nashville. Where do you think is the biggest difference in your philosophy compared to maybe some other GMs around the league? And do you think that's a big reason why Barry is back in Nashville? Yeah. Six coaches in 41 years, to be exact. Even better. is up on the bullet board in the coaches association meetings.

I have a philosophy that everybody's, we're in this together. The easiest thing to do, as we all know, and you have to do it sometimes. I get it is to change the coach because you can't change 20, 20 players. Sometimes you don't have the buy-in of your group or your ownership or any number of things. Or the media is just relentless that you have to do something. but I've fought against that as best I can. I believe I've hired all really good people, all really good coaches. And I'm really proud of that, really, really proud of that because, you know,

I could have had 20 coaches in 41 years and that may not have changed my, what anybody thinks of me. But I'm really proud with that. And I've felt that way in terms of commitment, you know, loyalty. They're all big words in terms of everybody in your organization that you're all working to, together. So, you know, the very thing, I mean, you know, he's a hockey guy. He's got, he's a worker. He's, he learns, he gets better. He doesn't have a big ego. He's, he's up for challenges. And just like this one, I mean, he could be coached in National Hockey League right now making much more money. But he's here in Nashville. He wants to live in Nashville. How good is that? How lucky are we

that we have that. And he's up for it. So I'm totally comfortable with this decision. David, along those lines, it's one of the oldest, you know, cliches in sports.

Coaches and GMs are hired to be fired. He's gone against the grain in that situation as well. How good does it feel to go out on your own terms? You know, sometimes you've got GMs who get fired and then they never get hired again. You made this decision. This was a David Poil decision. How good does it feel to do that?

Yeah, very lucky, very grateful again to the ownership. Again, really good relationships with our current owners, former owners. You know, that's part of a GM's job to be able to do that. And somehow people navigate that through sick and through sin, I guess. Very flattered, really. I mean, you're absolutely correct. I mean, as soon as you either say you want out or it's usually not even that way, you get fired, and it's over.

So here I've got a situation where I'm going to have some relationship with the predator forever. And that means that means everything to me to be able to do that. So I just just very, very, very fortunate. I know not very many people get to call their own shot, I guess you would say. And certainly also, you know, selecting your successor. So this is like go back to the book, Conalogy, and it's been a really good book for me and how it's gone and how it's going. And it looks like how it's going to finish. David, I asked for Twitter questions, and a couple of them were, you know, really, really good.

And one of the ones that jumped out to me was your relationship with Cliff Letcher. And a lot of people wanted to know, you know, just some really cool Cliff Letcher stories. I'm sure you have stories about a gazillion people in the game. But what are your best memories of Cliff who's still, you know, really involved in obviously hockey? Yeah, and I just talked to Cliff yesterday, and obviously he was other than my dad, he would be the most important mentor in my life hired me in 71 with the Atlanta Flames. My wife and I drove from Vancouver down to there to Atlanta opened the office. We had a trailer as you're built up in the Omni about a couple hundred yards away, and there was a billboard with a big red golly because we didn't have our color, didn't have our uniformity. which is the Ice Age cometh to Atlanta,

get your tickets before the freeze, and there was an arrow pointing down. So I was actually hired as I had an administrative assistant, Bill Putnam was the president, because I'd met both of them at Drafts, because I went to drafts with my dad. And then to hockey, I started a whole scouting system,

which nobody ever had before in any hockey with Atlanta. And then I ran the name the team contest on the business side. That was interesting. a lot of interesting selections there. So I got sort of got my stripes there right away, and then Cliff brought me into the hockey side, almost right, right away, which was fantastic. And those organizations at that time were so small,

and you got to do everything. And that was perfect education for me to be eventually a general manager. So near the end of my time with Cliff, and I would walk into his office every day. And as a young guy, you know, full of tea and vinegar, whatever you want to say. And I say, Cliff, why aren't we doing? doing this? Why are we doing that? Why don't we trade this guy on and on? This is my normal

routine all the time. And he was listen, listen. But one day I just caught him at the wrong time. And I walked in, I started my thing about this and that. He goes, point his finger at me and said, if you are ever so lucky to become a general manager, you will see how difficult it is actually to pull the trigger on, you know, 99% of things that you're saying. So I left the office tail between my legs, that's for Chedder. And I remember I got their job in Washington and I made a really big trade. My first trade was for Rod Langway 10 days into my tenure. And I called the owner.

I'm in the Royal York Hotel in Toronto. But it's after board of governor's meeting that I went to, the windows are open. There's no air conditioning. I know it's still nice day in September. I call the owner who hardly knew. and I said, Mr. Paul and I made a trade. So, okay, what did you do? I said, I traded Ryan Walter.

I was the captain of the Capitals. And I couldn't even get the rest of the trade out. He said, you did what? And then there's silence on the phone. And I went through the right, like sort of, I traded Rick, Rick, Rayne, Ryan, Walter, and I got this guy that guy. And he said, there's silence. He says, I hope you know what you're doing.

And he hung up the phone on me. I've had the job for 10 days. I know what he meant when he pointed to this. finger. One other story, sorry, this is yesterday with Cliff. So I talked to Cliff. I said, okay, well, tell me how it's going to be now. How am I going to feel? What's going to happen? And here's what he says. He says, is everybody calling you? You're sending you texts as emails? He said, yeah, I got a couple of hundred. It's something like it's going to take me while to get back to him. He says, yeah, everybody's going to reach out to you and say really nice things,

congratulate and all that. And then you're never here from them again. I think they call that riding off into the sunset, don't they? You're never going to hear from them again. That's great. That's my dad's thing all the time. Every time I would heard his impression, I was getting a little full of myself or whatever.

He'd say, Tots, David, Tots. So what's Tom? Thoughts theory, taking oneself too seriously. I like it. Good advice. David, we had Tom Fitzgerald on last week, And one of the things we talked about was trade deadline.

And I wanted to ask you because, as we mentioned, you've been a gym for 41 years. You've been through every possible change on and off the ice that you can think of. One thing he mentioned is he would love to have the trade deadline move back at least a month. As you're getting set to hand over the reins to Barry Trots, is there something you can throw that parting shot now? Is there something you would like to see maybe altered, be it a rule, be it something off the ice? now that you've done this for 41 years, what's one thing you'd like to see changed? Well, let me answer it this way.

I think, first of all, I think there's so many things that have been changed in the recent years, going back to the first lockout, you know, with Brendan Shanahan Summit, if you will, a lot of GMs,

meetings, and what have you. So I think the first thing we should, I want to make clear, I think the game is in the best shape it's ever been in. I think we have the best athletes. I mean,

the equipment has totally changed since I've become in the game, our staffs, I mean, you know, I'm thinking back in Atlanta, what we had or really what we didn't have, and now we have people for nutrition, we have multiple trainers or equipment people, staff. We're really into the mental side of the game now. Whatever there is in hockey, it's 100% better with all due respect to what came before us or even during my time here. I think it's important that we're always low. looking though to, what I would say, tweak the game. So there's different things that always come up. I mean, Gary Bettman has a little bit of a saying that he uses unintended consequences. I mean,

you know, there's things that general managers deal with on all the business side with the cap or, you know, this LTIR or salary retention. I mean, you know, things like that. I'm not so sure that's perfect for the game that might need to be tweaked in the next CBA. There's things that happen, I don't want to say in a nightly basis, but often in our game, the other night, the general manager reached out to me and he's, you know, basically he said there was a good play, actually was watching too. You know, it's the, it's like the Jacob Truba thing where he makes a clean height hit at Santa Ice and right away he has to engage in a fight with somebody. You know, is that, do we want that?

Can we change that? Should we have a differential in penalties so that maybe we cut that down, eliminate that. So they're coming up all the time. So I don't have, I mean, I probably have a hundred things for you to be perfectly honest. But it's like when we go to the meetings, it's like throwing a lot of spaghetti up on the wall. And, you know, what my thoughts are and what the group's thoughts are, it might be different. And some things don't seem to make any sense, you know, one, one year. But as we go along, it makes more sense. I think there's going to be an evolution a little bit on the, I'd say maybe on the schedule.

I mean, you see now there's some teams that are playing double headers with teams. I really endorse that because in our side, in the West, our travel is very tough. And we play a one, two, rotating every other year. We'll say use Vancouver an example. Well, ideally, if I could play Vancouver on one trip when I have two games in a year, I would love to do that. And I would certainly reciprocate when they come to Nashville. So again, I could go on forever on these things.

There's always things I think that we could make better. And the game's going to grow. I mean, I think this is the international component of our game. I think we'll have games in the NHL some day in Europe. I really believe that. David, I'm going to ask you. Go ahead. Oh, sorry.

No, go ahead, Jayce. I was going to ask you about goaltending because it's what I do. And you mentioned how well you've set up the team and how set up this team is. And you go from Pecorina to UC Soros, and you're already set up to go to, it looks like, Yaroslav Ascarov, who looks like a really good young goalie. And I'm very few teams in the league can find goleys like this to hand off to one another and be consistent. I'm wondering, is it, do you think it's just commitment to that position? Do you think it's a testament to the scouting you have, to the development guys you have?

Just what has worked so well in Nashville to have such a. smooth transitioning from one goalie the next? A little bit of everything that you said there. And I think you're fortunate, let's call it like it is, when you get Peca Reni in a, what is it, the eighth round, a round that doesn't even exist anymore. I mean, that's, that's pretty fortunate. Do you know the story on Peca Reni, how we decided to draft him? I'll tell you, or anyway, so our scout, Yanni Kekalinen,

he really liked Peca and I sent Ray Shero over to to watch him play but I said to when Ray got there said what time do you want me to meet at the game he said well you better come early I want you to watch the warmup

and Ray said well why he said well Peca never plays he's he's the he's in the backup so you've got to see him in a warmup that's you know that's that's not exactly how the story goes, we did have some more visuals on him, but in that particular game, that was the case. He was actually, uh, Nicholas Baxter. Yeah, to, yeah, to Minnesota's goalie at the time. So, you know, you got to be good.

You got to be lucky, uh, going back over my career in Washington, that we had good goaltending, but we didn't have a great goldending. And I think we probably lost some playoff series, you know, that was at least a little bit of a factor in that. And I'm, we've been blessed with goaltending almost since day one. I mean, this is a, there's a very Trott's story for putting the team together in Nashville. We didn't, we were hired the year before. So it was Barry Trots, myself and Paul Gardner as assistant coach. We did the pro scouting that year for the draft. And Paul and Barry, who were in the American Hockey League the year before, had seen a young kid playing in the East Coast League that happened to be Montreal's fifth goalie.

And we took him from Montreal. His name was Thomas Locoon. So those are great stories. Yeah, it's really amazing. Well, Fitsy was talking last week about just how the link between you, Trots and him and, you know, first captain, first GM and first GMs and first coach. And that brings me to the last question, David, you know, you have so many friends, you know, your GM's meetings are start Sunday in South Florida. And I always see the camaraderie that 32 competitive GMs have with each other, usually at night at the bar. What, what are you going to miss the most? I know that you're not officially, you're going to still be a consultant. You're still going to be around. You're still going to be very influential in this sport. But what do you think you'll miss the most when you are at times traveling around with your lovely wife? Yeah. Well, you've already hit the nail on the head. It's always the people and it's always been the people. And when you sit around and like you said, the gym's meetings late in night and you tell the old war stories,

it actually drifts away from the game, the game on the ice. And it always goes to the, well, I did this with this guy or that guy or, you know, you this trade here you really put it to me on that trade any numbers things like that so it's always the people

and like I said I really I'm very very grateful for my whole career and it's always been the people that have made it but it'd be my dad to give me the love of the game or Cliff Letcher taking a chance on a young guy to the senior GMs and Harry Sindon, Bill Torrey

Amel, Francis, Glenn Sater Lou Amarillo, all these guys I mean, it's a cool bond to be a general manager. Very lucky to have only one of 32 jobs in the whole world. So I'm grateful. And you're going to have it a little while longer. Don't let Barry Trots go in your office and start measuring the furniture just yet. You're still the man in charge until the end of this.

If he doesn't keep all my files, I don't know. There's going to be something wrong with him. David, thanks so much for coming on again from all of us. Congratulations on a very long career. I know you're still going to be around, as Rousseau said. And I love how you said on your press conference. I hope you guys need me. Trust me, they will take every ounce of hockey knowledge you got moving forward.

Thanks so much. Congratulations. We'll talk to you soon. Congrats, David. Thank you. David Poyle, general manager of the Nashville Predolus. Rapid Fire coming up after the break. So don't go anywhere.

All right, boys, my favorite time of the show and yours. Rapid Fire. We've got one, two, three, four things to go through. Russo, don't look at the script and jump ahead. Rapid fire topic number one. Expansion. There are rumors floating around. The NHL could be expanding to not one but two different cities.

Atlanta, which of course would be a return, a third time to the city of Atlanta. And Houston. NHL trying to calm down these rumors saying, no, no, no, nothing to them, nothing to them. But a lot of big-name people, mainly Elliot Freeman, saying there is maybe some smoke where this fire looks to be coming from. Your thoughts on this, especially Houston, largest U.S. market without an NHL team. Russo. Well, I have a soft spot for Atlanta.

But it would be third time. Would it be third time as a charm? I mean, you know, the one thing about Atlanta that I think people do forget is that I don't think that this last time with the trashers was that the fan base didn't show up. Although they had years and years of losing. This was an ownership issue. And finally, unlike Arizona, we wake up one day and Gary Babin's like, you know, we'll just move them to Winnipe. And Houston, I do think that they deserve a team. But, you know, like, even just to me right now, just think about it logically. I know people just scoff at the whole Atlanta thing, but it's a little

ridiculous that a market like Atlanta doesn't have a hockey team, especially the way that hockey is growing in the South. Same thing with Houston would be a natural rivalry for the Dallas Stars. You know, is 34 teams too much? You know, Arizona, if their thing doesn't go through May 16th, are they going to move? There's a lot of things here at play. I think it would be cool to see both those markets get teams. I just don't know if this is just jumping the gun because of reports. Yeah, I totally agree with all that. I want to see a team back in Atlanta. I loved the thrashers. That's like just nostalgia. I just, I don't know, I love their logo. I love the uniform. I love everything about the thrashes. They should bring that back if they, if they get a team. And I also,

like I heard some of the, some of the reports and then the thoughts that maybe it'd be like out on the outskirts, like in a suburb of Atlanta. I think maybe like Michael said, it's not, it wasn't exactly about the fans not showing up, but maybe that could help it. I don't know. I'm in favor of expansion, probably because I covered an expansion team. The Seattle expansion has been fun to watch and see how it happens. I am in favor of more expansion. It's just fun. And maybe Arizona could, maybe the coyotes could become the thrashers. I don't know. We'll see. 34 is a lot. I would be more in favor of a move than I would for expanding the 34. Rapid fire topic number two. Russo will start with you on this one as well because we got the NHLGM meetings right around the corner you're going right

what's uh what we look for as far as an agenda or things are going to be discussed well we've talked about one topic on the show a lot and uh david poyle unsolicited brought it up and that's uh fight starting because of clean checks uh the league is going to be making a presentation of showing um how fights started and they uh i think david it was interesting they actually brought up you know maybe do you have a disparity the guy would say well there's an instigator rule just call it but he's basically saying, hey, you know what? If you start a fight because after a clean hit, maybe that's just an extra penalty. I think that's part of it.

They are presenting something that Jesse and I are going to be writing about soon on goal. Goleys pushing the moorings right off. I think they're going to discuss the schedule matrix. I can guarantee you that trade-related reasons and teams holding out players for a long, long time is going to be discussed as well. And then LTIR, I think, is going to be a huge topic. just the hypocrisy of basically even that day of the trade deadline, putting out a memo saying,

hey, if you're going to acquire Gus Nyquist or Sean Monaghan or Adam Henrique, and you're going to stash them on LTI, don't even think about it, we're going to be scrutinizing it. And then you allow the Arizona Coyotes to bring in the contracts of guys like Shay Weber and Jacob Vorcheck, just to get to the cap floor. I think there are a lot of teams that are very, very concerned with that, guys.

Speaking of fighting, rapid fire topic number three, the QMJHL, the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, had a meeting of their owners who officially declared themselves in favor of getting rid of fighting. They voted in favor of it. Now, this rule wouldn't still need to be ratified, part of a conference next June, but the rule would look like this.

A fight would result in immediate expulsion of the players involved. There would be an exception if it's considered that one of the fighters is clearly the instigator and the other guy, just was defending himself basically. But step one in one of the three major junior leagues in Canada, really just outright banning fighting. There's no fighting in college hockey. Do you think this is going to spill over to other leagues maybe?

Jesse. Yes, I do. I think someday we're going to look back and fighting will be no more in the NHL. And I think we're going to look back at videos of guys beating the crap out of each other on the ice and think what in the hell was going on back then. I think it's a no-brainer for, especially for the junior leagues. Like, I think the NHL probably shouldn't have it either, but even if you want to argue that the NHL should have it, these are grown men.

Maybe, just maybe, 15-year-olds shouldn't beat the shit out of each other on the ice. This is a no-brainer. I can't believe it took this long. It should get passed. And then the other two major junior leagues should follow suit. I think if you want to argue the NHL, go ahead. But I don't think there's any argument for having children beating each other up. on the ice, it should definitely be taken away.

Yeah, and if you start the process now, maybe it just becomes less of the thing once you get to the NHL level. So you sort of begin that process. I do think that I agree with you. I think eventually we are going to look back and say, all right, I cannot believe there was fighting in hockey and it's going to eventually be gone. I really think that's just the way we're heading.

I don't know when that's going to be. I think when that happens, it is going to be very incumbent on the referees to take control of games and give guys penalties if they're taking advantage of you. each other because like last night was a game that I covered here in Minnesota where there were a couple guys that probably needed to get their ass kicked last night and there was no fight and it was and frankly part of the problem was the rest were allowing um mayhem at on every goal now scrum and there were just some dirty dirty cross checks in the lower back and high sticks and nastiness and

that's the type of stuff if you're not going to have fighting anymore and let the players take care of it the referees are going to have to start doing their jobs. and calling penalties to protect players, because that is really the reason why referees exist is to control safety on the ice in a lot of ways as well. So that would be my only contention if we ever get to that point that refs actually make sure that guys aren't taking advantage in liberties with other people,

especially the stars. I just watched too many stars in this game get mauled, and those are the guys that shouldn't have to be. The NHL has seen a sharp number, decline in numbers as far as fights over the last gun, knows how many years now. So I think this is just another way to help grandfather it in just a little bit quicker. It's not like the NHL is still very much a fighting league.

And then they were doing this because if that was the case, I would look at it like, well, you're not necessarily maybe preparing these guys for when they do turn pro. The NHL is getting rid of it. Junior teams are going to start getting rid of it. It's there. I mean, it's not as if you're banned for life if you get into a fight. If it happens to happen, it happens. But I'm in favor of it as well because when you really, when you really break it down, guys,

Look, I grew up when me and my friends were watching hockey. If two guys dropped the gloves, we all stopped and watched it too. But you have to acknowledge the absurdity of two guys bare knuckle boxing on blades on ice. It's ridiculous. And as it should be like other sports. You look at football. If somebody in the NFL takes their helmet off and punches a guy in the face, he's not banned from playing football for the rest of his life, but he's not going to play the next couple weeks.

NBA, guys are throwing punches. It happens in the NBA, not often, but often enough. you get a five-game suspension, whatever it is, you're done. Like, that's how it should be handled in hockey. Yeah. And, you know, and that, look, like, I've covered this league during the fighting era of this league, and it was mayhem, and I didn't cover it in the 80s. I mean, we're talking, like, you know, the, I won't start naming names, but it was,

it was nastiness, and now we've seen this sharp decline, so it's slowly, but surely, you're seeing this sharp decline, and, and I think it goes, like, and you can, you can take it where you eventually eliminate something. You know, one other thing that you were talking about, that popped in my head about the decline of fighting two are headshots in the league. We never see him anymore.

And, you know, when we do, like the Austin Watson play the other day where he wasn't suspended, it's a huge headline because it happens so rarely. And, you know, I know it's very fashionable in this sport

to rip on the department of player safety all the time, but let's be honest. This league has done a great, job of eliminating that type of hit in the game with this with the with the with the rule on on head shots and there yeah they're going to be the times where they say all right well the head was in principle point of contact and there's unavoidable head contact and things like that that is part of the rule but this league has done a really good job of largely taking that hit out of the game and I think that we are starting to see because fighting is so less and less that it's starting to become less and

less just also because of the style on the ice you can't just have a goon on your fourth line anymore you can't afford that. I was going to bring that up because of the salary cap, right? You can't afford just to be throwing money at someone who's going to play three minutes a game. And not even just the salary cap. Look how fast a sport is right now. Like you just can't have a guy that can't skate and can't score and just say you're one of our 12 forwards. So it's just, you know, the way that the game is evolving, I think is going to largely take care of fighting itself.

We've seen this sharp decline. But I do think that eventually we are going to get to the point where the league, because it's so infrequent, it. You just say, you know what? It's time. Last one before we go, guys, Eric Carlson took a high stick to the mouth. Wasn't happy about it. He's on the bench. Blood just gushing from his mouth. And he took off his helmet and chucked it in the general direction of the officials. It really reminded me when I saw it of, excuse me, if you remember, that happened Jeremy Roanick years ago. Remember he took a high stick and he chucked the water bottle at the refs?

almost the exact same thing. You don't see him lose his cool very often. This was very un-erick Carlson, like your thoughts on this one. Jesse. Yeah, that was kind of where I was going with it. I was shocked when I saw it because, wow, like Eric Carlson is like the coolest, like, calmest guy. Like, you rarely see him get that angry. And I can't help, but think he's kind of in the right here.

I mean, probably shouldn't throw his helmet. But at the same time, while he's throwing it, there's blood coming down his mouth. Like he was high-stick pretty badly and there was no call. He wasn't happy about it. Don't throw your helmet. But at the same time, I understand why he's mad. And this is a guy who is not, does not have a reputation for being just a hot-headed, like, blows up on every little thing. You guys know Pavel Barber on Instagram, the incredible skills guy.

He played in a hockey tournament with me. He cut a hilarious video today that shows Eric Carlson throwing his helmet and then the helmet hitting Connor Garland in the face. Remember McKinnon and him got in the wrestling match? McKinon. Yeah. So you had this thing and his at his Instagram it says it says something like what a great you know, it said something like an unbelievable toss from Eric Carlson 65 and it just shows him throwing the helmet and then cuts to Garland getting hit with it. It's just so funny. Sometimes I love the internet. Yeah. Just stuff like that is just when I love social media. People are just so creative. So Pavel Barber right in there. Guys, what are we working on this week?

Russell. I'll be down at the GM's meetings on Sunday. Sean Gentile is actually going to come down there with me, so that'll be fun. We have a bunch of really cool things planned. We had a huge meeting yesterday about it and got a number of really cool features down the road. Here are both on Minnesota and National coming. Yeah, I've got plenty of stuff on Vegas and also, as Michael alluded to earlier, he and I are working on a cool piece on, you guessed it, goalies.

and one of the rules they're going to be discussing at the GM meeting. So it should be fun. Be sure to tune into that. Thanks, boys. We'll see you next week. I want to remind everybody to subscribe to the Athletics NHL YouTube channel at YouTube.com slash the athletic hockey show. The Athletic Hockey Show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes round.

Once again, I want to say a big thanks to David Boyle for coming on. He could go on for hours and we could talk to him about hockey for hours about his story Vault is just packed. We want to thank him a lot. As Russo mentioned, he's in Florida for the general manager meetings next week. We will return Wednesday for a recap of those meetings and a push towards the playoffs for Jesse, for Russo. I'm Pizzo. We'll see you next week.