The Athletic Hockey Show - Denver Pioneers the toast of the Frozen Four and a sneak peek at Corey's latest draft board

Episode Date: April 16, 2024

Max and Corey, along with Flo Hockey's Chris Peters look back on the Frozen Four tournament and the championship team the Denver Pioneers led by their breakout defensemen Zeev Buium and one of the hottest coaching prospects in hockey, David Carle. The guys discuss Cutter Gauthier signing his entry level deal with Anaheim and how far away his teammates at Boston College, Ryan Leonard, Will Smith and Gabe Perreault are from debuting in the NHL. Plus the guys discuss which players have the most on the line at the upcoming U18's and we get a sneak peek at Corey's new draft board. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody. Max Boltman here alongside Corey Prondman and Flow Hockey's Chris Peters for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. And Chris, there is a new king of college hockey. Denver wins the national title. Their 10th national title is a program, the most of any program in college hockey. They shut out a high-flying Boston college team to do it. How'd they get there? That is a great question, Max. And not only are they the kings of college hockey,

the kings of kings with their 10th national title, as you mentioned, the record now set. And obviously that was a motivating factor for this team. I think a lot of every single guy mentioned it about how important it was to them to get to that. But how they got there was with a team that they defended incredibly well as a team, which is not something earlier in the season that you could say they did consistently. They certainly had plenty of good defenders and guys that had mobility and they could win possession and they obviously outscored most teams that they played.

But I think earlier in the season, they were a team that outscored their problems. Now they were a team in the playoffs. And that was consistent throughout even the NCHC tournament and into the national tournament. They basically became a team that made it very difficult to score against. And then they also had Matt Davis who made 23 saves in the third period of that championship game, including that, you know, basically all-time great NCAA save on Ryan Leonard, where he dove across and stopped the puck. And they only allowed three goals over the course of the entire tournament. They have one goal against in each of their NCAA tournament games.

That's a credit to Davis, but it's also a credit to the team that played with tremendous possession. they played with discipline. They were difficult to get through, difficult to get to the interior, a lot of shots from the perimeter against them, and they were able to eat that up. So I think it was a very well-coached team, a team that peaked at the right time, a team that got a goalie that's played out of his mind,

and then a team that also won with depth because they didn't need, they did not rely on stars for their scoring. Goals came from everywhere in their lineup, and that's another thing that, you know, I think was probably the biggest separating factor is that they had the depth, And that really trumped the other teams that had bigger stars. And BC had it, BU had it, didn't matter.

And I thought it would matter. It didn't because of how deep Denver was. I agree with everything that Chris said right there, but I would disagree that they didn't have a star. Because from what I saw in the hardest games of the season, I thought Zee's Boyan looked like a star. I thought that guy is one of the best draft eligibles I've seen in college. he was, I thought, impactful.

I mean, just you saw that like the second, on the second goal, the assist he made on that play for a draft eligible defenseman. It's, you know, just a really special player and special season he had. You know, we've talked about him a bunch on the podcast lately, but I feel like it just can't be overstated how good he was this season.

You know, ends the year with 50, 5-0 points on the season. Now, mind you, with all those extra games, to the national championship. But just to put that in context, remember all the way back in 2019 how much people were, you know, just praising Kail McCar for just how dominant a college player he was.

He was two years removed from his draft at that point, and he had 49 points on that season. For Zeev to do what he did this year is really unprecedented in modern times, and he was a really dynamic player consistently with his skating, his skill, his playmaking. and he looks like a guy who I think has a chance to become a star in the National Hockey League. Chris, you mentioned well-coached when you were describing Denver. And I want to let Denver have as much time to enjoy this in pure bliss as possible.

But I don't know how much longer we can avoid the topic of David Carl and his potential NHL prospects. This is a guy who in the last two calendar years now, maybe give or take a few days on the back end, has two national. championships and a world junior gold medal. And that's not the kind of thing that goes unnoticed in NHL circles. No, it doesn't. And I don't think it has. I mean, I think that if you talk about the hottest coaching prospects in hockey right now, I think David Carl would be at the top of that list.

And, you know, there are a couple of coaches in college hockey that have certainly gotten interest from NHL teams in the past that, you know, either haven't taken it or didn't quite get across the finish line with some of those. But I think the thing about David Carl is he is at the point now where he's got two national championships. He's 34 years old. He has a world junior gold medal. He's at the point now where he's basically, I don't think he's going to jump at the first job that becomes available. I think he's going to be patient.

He's going to wait for the right job, the right opportunity, the place where he feels like he can have success. I think he's comfortable at Denver. I think that he was motivated by getting a 10th national championship for the place. the program. And let's recall that David Carl, his playing career was cut short by a heart condition. He ended up staying at Denver. They honored his scholarship. He stayed there. He worked as a student manager, then as a student coach, then got his first job with Derek Leland at the Green Bay Gamblers. So this is a guy that has climbed the ladder from the time basically he was 18 years old, which is really impressive. He is one of the more

impressive individuals to be around as well. He's a stoic. He is a guy that doesn't get to high, doesn't get too low. He doesn't get too animated behind the bench. The players seem to, that seems to resonate with the players. You look at how he did at the world juniors, look at what he did with Denver. He pushes a lot of the right buttons. He lets players play the way that they, that maximizes their skill set, but also make sure that everybody's responsible. I think that he, you know, like as right now, as we're recording this, the Buffalo Sabres job just came open. Maybe they'll give him a call. Maybe they won't. But I think that he, you know, that David Carl is going to be picky about where he goes, and he's also earned that right

with what he's built at Denver. He may lose a number of players from this current team, but that really hasn't seemed to matter. They've lost plenty of players in the past and still had competitive teams. So two national championships in the last three years, 34 years old, World Junior Gold. I believe if he's available, I'm pretty sure he'll be team USA's coach for the next world juniors as well. So, you know, I mean, this is a guy that really has the sky as the limit for his coaching career at this point. Corey, Boston College is now in the wake of this law is going to have some fallout here.

Cutter-Goti signs with the Anaheim ducks, but there's some other big decisions out there on the horizon. For all we know, they're going to be made by the time people are listening to this. But what are the biggest decisions you're watching here? Obviously, Ryan Leonard's in there, Will Smith. Who's got the best argument to stay and who's got the best argument? to leave here. I think those are really tough decisions to make because I think when we watched that that trio

up until midseason, whether it was the first half of the year where they were playing well, but they weren't putting up huge numbers. And then other than Gabe Perrae at the time and then to go to the world juniors, I thought they were pretty good. They were dominant. I think the common train of thought was, let's have, you know, they're really good players, high-end prospects, but they needed to come back for a second year. Then the second half comes and those three.

just light up college hockey and it went throughout the conference play and, you know, just one of the most dominant, consistent lines we've seen in the modern era, especially for all being freshmen. And I think now they all have really tough decisions to make. And I think the decisions that one or two of them makes will affect the other ones. I would be really surprised if, say, Smith and Leonard signed and then Perrault goes back for a second season at Boston College. So I think, you know, we'll see. I think if you really evaluated the playoffs, you know, in the end of season play,

I thought Ryan Leonard looked like he was the most ready to play in the NHL. And there's a situation potentially brewing if the capitals make the playoffs or he could even potentially join the roster. So I think that's the most interesting one. If the capitals don't make the playoffs, then there might be some patience and maybe some collaboration among the players. I always tend to lean towards two years. is more ideal, but in the case of these guys where Smith already led the nation and scoring,

Leonard looks so dominant already as a freshman, if I was advising them, I probably would tell those two, they're probably ready to turn pro. Pro is probably the toughest decision, because like I said, I mean, it's going to be really tough if he goes back to Boston College and those guys aren't there, but I'm not quite sure he's ready to play in the NHL just quite yet. Yeah, and I think that's very true. I mean, you know, and Gabe Perrault had a tremendous the season. You look at the production and everything else. Also, BC does have James Hagan's coming in next year. That would be, you know, potentially a guy that would, you know, replace Will Smith if he does go. I think Will Smith's decision is largely, you know, considering, okay, where are the sharks going to be next year?

What, what environment am I going to be in? Even Macklin-Cellibrini, in the great piece that Joe Smith wrote for you guys at the athletic, said, it depends on who picks me if I'm going to come out. Like, you know, like, because I think situation, is very important. And you think about the way that these players have dictated their developmental futures over the last couple of years in college hockey, they hold a fair amount of power. And also the introduction of NIL and different things like that has really softened the blow. We just saw Rucker McGrody decided to return to Michigan, even though all of, you know, his classmates essentially are leaving with Frank Naser and, and also Gavin Brinley signing right away. And then Rucker chooses not to do.

And that's a situational thing because the Winnipeg Jets really don't have a place for him to play in the near future. Obviously, the sharks have a place for Will Smith. Capitals seem to have a place for Ryan Leonard. The Rangers definitely don't for Gabe Perrault, not even next year where it's just I don't think that's going to be physically and developmentally. I don't think he's ready for that step. But yeah, but I mean, I think that these players have more power than they've ever had in terms of deciding whether or not to stay or go. And as we've seen, many players have chosen to take that second year. But there have been a few one and duns this year as well, Bradley Nadeau and a few others.

So plenty to discuss about them. I think, you know, basically if either, if all three of them go back, if, you know, two of them turn pro, you know, I don't think that there's, there's really a wrong answer for them. I think really tough decisions for those guys and for Boyham and for R.D. Let's shootoff. I think I don't really know where all those decisions are going to go because I think they're all whole line cases. For sure. All right, Corey, right before the break there, you mentioned Artem Luf Shunoff and Zeev,

Boyam, and the decisions that they also were going to have to make here. You've got a new draft board coming out soon. I imagine after the two college seasons, those two guys just had, they are going to be pretty high on that list. Yeah, I think left shootoff and Boyam, we're both top five players in this draft right now. I don't think those are controversial statements. I mean, you look at, I just talked about Boyab on the past segment, but even like left shoot off.

of with his size, mobility, the skill. I know the profiles are not identical, but he's a late birthday in the Big Ten. We look at the last two late birthday draft eligible is in the Big Ten, those being Quinn Hughes and Owen Power. I'm not sure, like, you know, you can argue who's the better pro prospect, but he had better seasons as a draft eligible than those two did.

You know, he was, you know, the clear, you know, best defenseman in his conference, the top player on a one seat, even though Michigan State's tournament ended before they were hoping for. I mean, I think this guy is a, you know, extremely talented, offensive player with great athleticism. And, like I said, it was kind of just a really special season. I think we were getting kind of maybe, I had an NHL person reach out to me the other day and say, you know, maybe we're getting a little spoiled right now. You know, we look at how good left shoeingoff was this year, how good Boyam was this year, how good Celebrini was this year, how good Fantilli was last season.

Like, that's not the norm in college hockey for guys to come in. and even as really good draft eligible to dominate. Like Owen Power didn't dominate. Matt Beneers didn't dominate. Kent Johnson didn't dominate. Quinn Hughes didn't dominate. This is kind of a very recent trend at the moment. Chris,

you had Luf Shunov, I think, as high as number two on your most recent board. In such a cluster D class, like where did he kind of separate himself for you? I mean, I'm not to say there's a huge separation, but to get that nudge at number two. Yeah, it's not a huge separation. I just, to me, of all the defensemen that we watch this season, the thing that separates

Lefshnav for me is that he is, he makes it look easy. Everything he does looks easy. There's his skating stride. I don't know, you know, on the assist that he had on that late goal, or was it the overtime goal, Corey, I can't remember where he got around the defender. It didn't even look like he was chugging. He was just going. It is normal skating stride and created separation.

And, you know, he almost plays the game like it's like he's in a rocking chair. He's very confident and poised with the puck. He makes good decisions with the puck. He defends confidently. He engages physically. He probably could do it even a little bit more. And, you know, I just felt like to me of all the defensemen in this class, he was the most complete. He had the fewest concerns for me.

Like I don't, I don't really think a lot of these guys. They don't have glaring concerns. You see the tremendous skill level, the ability to move pucks, the size of some of these guys, the athleticism of this class in general. The difference for me was that I thought that already at his age, at, you know, coming from the USHL, being as dominant as he was, the transitions that he's made year over year from coming from Belarus to going to the USHL to go into college, we've seen a real through line in his progression and that he's just been consistent.

steady, you know what you're going to get. And to me, there's a level of predictability that I feel I have with him that I might not have with some of the other defensemen. But boy, he is absolute joy to watch. And to Corey's point, I mean, we forget how incredible a 35 points in 38 games is for a draft eligible defenseman in college hockey. Because, I mean, you think about other guys that were in that range. I mean, like guys that were already drafted, Zach Werenski, you know, different players

like that, you know, they, they had big seasons. But what Leveshanov did this year at his age and based on his experience to me was really truly exceptional while playing, you know, major minutes for a resurgent team. I mean, without him, I don't think Michigan State is as good as they were this season. Yeah, but I agree with you on Lefshinov and that I think he was the cleanest evaluation of the top prospects. I think there are some people in the league that issues with his defensive play. I don't really. I don't think it's an issue. I mean, he's a draft eligible in college.

I think there's going to be some playing big minutes. There's going to be some defensive mishaps here or there. He's physical. He killed penalties on a good team, played big minutes. Like, I'm not really concerned about his defensive play. Whereas you look at the other top prospects with like, say, Z, Boyam or St. Perrek. I think there's going to be some minor concerns on how well they're going to defend as a pro. Saliev and Sam Dickinson, I think there's going to be minor concerns about much offense they're going to have as a pro.

I think Carter Yakimchuk is his hockey sense. It can look a little average at times. But I think with like with Shunov, it was just the clearness evaluation. You know, he ticks all the boxes, had a great year, great development track. You know, Chris mentioned the year-over-year development. It kind of reminds me, quite frankly, of Andres Feshtakov's development, different positions, but going from, you know, going overseas to the U.S.HL to playing really high, really high level going second overall.

It wouldn't surprise you if that ends up being Lefchinoff trajectory, and he is in the NHL next season. So for both Lev Shinov and Boe, and Boe, We've seen their closing statement, so to speak, for the NHL draft. For a lot of these guys, though, it's going to be at the World U18 Championships, notably not in that category, are two guys who I think we would have really liked to see on this stage. Berkeley Caton and Caden Lindstrom, Corey, you had a report recently that they are going to be shut down with injuries. Yeah, and Catton is, you know, it seems like he has had nagging hip injury,

but he, you know, he played through it for most of the year and had a great season. And Lindstrom's going to be a point of debate, I think, going forward. Because there are some people in the league who adore this player who see 6-3 and could fly, and he's physical and he scores a lot of goals and seems to be a really talented player. And there are people in the league who still view this guy as a top five pick, a guy who think they can be of this foundational piece they can build around. And there are others who do have concerns on a player who's had multiple injury concerns in his draft year who didn't quite have the runaway the other top prospects have to prove

that he could score at the same level over the same period of time. You can look at like Lindstrom's stats and see that his shooting percentage was pretty high in the first half with that effort rest. You know, who can know with time? You know, he didn't always seem like he was going to be this elite score, you know, up until October, essentially. But so I think, you know, it really depends what side of the venture on. Like if you, like, love this player, you think he could be the next, you know,

Dylan Larkin or something like that. And if, and if you don't love this player, you're thinking of, like, Lawson Krauss, both who are, by the way, long-term, you know, NHL players. Those are not the worst-case scenario could be a lot worse than that. But I think where Lindstrom goes in the draft, the hope work teams are going to have to do on him in particular, is going to be a real intense point of discussion over the next few months. Yeah. And to Corey's point, too, it's not just the injuries.

It's how he plays the game and has injuries at this point. He likes to play physical. he can be an aggressive player. It's a lot harder to be a physical player if you're getting injured. And we saw that this is an extreme example, but, you know, Tyler Boucher is a top 10 pick that was injured throughout most of his draft season, plays a physical game. And much of his pro career, he is, and junior career,

he has faced additional injuries. And so I'm not saying, there's no evidence to suggest that Caden Lindstrom is going to have a history of injuries, but you have two. and one season that are different injuries that you're saying, ah, you know, like I'm a little bit nervous. So that's what the risk factor, that risk factor is what probably drops him. Because I think the upside, everybody sees the upside. His ceiling is incredible. I mean, a player that skates like him, has the size, has the skill, that's a player that you want to develop. But I do think that there's reasonable concern because of the injury history. And then, you know, also, as Corey said, the missed time

of evaluation where, you know, we're dealing with a, with a different sample size, and that creates another layer of risk. And players who get hurt get taken high, like Brett Connolly went high, Morgan Riley went high, Alex Gailchiaq went high. Teams will do their medical research. I'm not so, you know, the injuries aren't great. You got a back injury. It's never, it's never great.

That dropped Follardi a little bit in his draft year. But I think really for teams, it comes down to who is this player? Is Cadyman Lindstrom, the guy we saw? for most of his 16-year-old season, the U-17 challenge, and into the Hulinka? Or is he this really impactful offensive player who's a premium athlete we saw from basically September through November, December? You know, who is the real player? Is there something in between there?

I think that's the real debate on this player to go along with the medical questions. Yeah, it feels like the specific injury is more important in these cases than that they're injured, right? We talk about cat and two and a hip. I mean, he's a young guy. I have no doubt he's going to recover, but you're talking about a hip on a guy who is really shifting and quick, and you just wonder if it's 5% off.

Like, that makes a difference. Yeah, I've got to acknowledge he doesn't need surgery or something like that. I'm not overly concerned about that at this point. All right. Okay, so among the guys who are going to be there, there's a few names that I think we can point to and say this is a really big tournament for them. But Corey, you made the point as we were prepping that this is the first time we're going to see

Aaron Kivahar you in several months. And that makes this a really massive event for him in particular. Yeah, he got injured in the fall. I think I forgot whether it was September or October, he got hurt. And then they said he'll be back in February. And then they said he'll be back in March. And then they said he'll be back for April. And I think his actual return is going to be just for the start of this tournament, his third U-18 World Championship, which is pretty rare to refer to player to play in three of these tournaments. And I think he also played at Holinka. So fair to say he's gone as his fair share of U-18 international hockey.

And I think so for those reasons, even though this is going to be his first hockey in quite some time, I think the bar is really high for Kiva. How are you? As a five, nine-ish defenseman who's not an elite skater, I think, you know, for him to maintain his first round status, I think he needs to go into that tournament and go absolutely bonkers on the on the opposition because if he's just like good pretty good not amazing i think you know i think just from what i my understanding of where he's being battered right now in the league i think he could drop quite substantially how about uh hellenius for finland i mean that that's

a guy who i think has had one of the better years constanta hellenius this is uh along draft eligible players in in league in in in some time do we expect to see him at this event? I don't know. I mean, Finland is hosting the tournaments. I'm sure they would love to get him. I think you saw how they did that team did actually do okay, the five nations with a watered down roster. They add Kipa Haru, they add Emil Hemme, they add VT-Vasin, and then they add Heleneas to their group. I think they could have a real chance to win the tournament. The issue with Heleneas is he was so good in Liga and he was really good in the league of playoffs for Eukkirut, that now he's with the senior team playing in exhibition games. I think he had

like three points in two games with the senior team the other weekend. And I don't know from my understanding if he's even going to be available to the UA team. I think there's a real chance he's going to be at the World Championships. I think now, you know, this world championships, because of the, you know, the living best on best with the NHL players, I think it's going to have a lot more NHL players at that tournament. So for for young players like Consta or like Aziv Boyer or whatever, we'll kind of see whether there's actually enough room on the roster for them when the NFL players are getting released. But at the moment, I think it's it's up in the air whether he's going to be available for the 18s. Chris, one player we've talked about all cycle long as

Cole Iserman and seems like he's going to be one of the more divisive players in this class as we inch toward the draft. What does he have on the line at this tournament? You know, I think everything, really. I mean, he's probably been one of the most picked apart players of this entire draft class, as you said. And really, on top of that, you know, he is chasing down a record. So he's chasing down Cole Eiserman or Cole Coffield's career goals record. I believe he's eight away from that from tying it right now. So, you know, with the fact that he scored at such a high level in last year's tournament,

scoring nine goals during the world under 18s and almost had 10, but it happened to hit Carrie Terrance on the way in. And that was a big goal. But, you know, I think for him, it's, about reestablishing some dominance. Some of the international tournaments that he's played in this year, he's been okay, hasn't been amazing. He was better in the February 5 nations and, you know, he's done some things to improve his stock and different things like that. But to me, it's about reestablishing, hey, I'm an elite score. I can do more, you know, I can do more than score goals.

I'm going to be able to, you know, he's not a huge play driver. We'll see exactly, you know, if it's him and Hagen's, I mean, Higgins is going to drive, drive that a little bit more. But, you know, I just think that for him, it's about just continuing to, you know, be that elite score, being that go-to score. Because that is a valuable trait. It's not like it's in, you know, like, if that's your one dimension, and I don't think he's, like, wholly one-dimensional. But if that's your best dimension, I mean, that's a great dimension to have. So, yeah, I just, I think for us, we want to see Cole Eisenman be a dominant player and leave a good last impression because I think in various points of the season, you're like, okay, I've seen it. I've seen it. And every time I see it, I see the same thing. I think we want to see, you know, outright dominance and certainly maybe a few other elements to his game. Corey, who else are you watching at this tournament? Anyone that they really jumped in mind when I asked for players that have the most to prove?

Well, one player who I think will be really interesting to watch is a player who's not 100% available yet, although I expect will be available, and that will be Tijiginla from the Colona Rockets. They're currently playing Prince George right now in the WHL playoffs. Gingla had an incredible first round there against Wanachi, where I think he's only had like eight goals or something in that first round. Even though I think, you know, Colona is a good team and has some really good players, I expect Prince George to. make quick work of them and for a ginnla to likely be available for the 18 worlds and i was really really looking forward to potentially you know because there's all this debate going on in scouts around a ginnla versus cadden versus linchram who was the top forward in the west i would have loved to have had a measuring stick to compare to the three of them against each other we won't get

that measuring stick now but we might get to see aginla at the 18 level we just saw catten and linchum in the summer we haven't seen agin with an international level and seeing how he would do as a potential featured player on Team Canada, I think would be really fascinating for a guy who seems to be rising up the list at the moment. How about Linus Erickson? I know that's a prospect who's maybe a little lower down the board, but seems like an interesting one of late. Yeah, I think he's been a guy who's been rising for sure.

I don't think he really laid it up at the junior level in the first half of the year, but he's played quite well in the second half at the season at the first is men for in the Osfenskin, helping your garden make a deep playoff run, playing a notable role in that team, good skater, good skill, makes a lot of plays, has a chance to be maybe a middle of six center in the NHL one day. I think this is a guy who on a Swedish age group where we've kind of been wondering, like, hey, is there anybody here who's really standing out? I don't think like he's standing out in a massive way.

He's going to be like a top 20 pick or something like that. But I think he's a good player. And I think this is a guy who is someone to watch going into the tournament for Sweden. All right. Just to close today, guys, I want to get your thoughts on the Calder Trophy race. And by this point in the year, I think we have narrowed it down probably to two real favorites. And, Corey, that would obviously be Brock Faber, Minnesota, Connor Bedard in Chicago. I don't know if you're voting this year, but do you have a real strong thought?

Okay, perfect, because then you can give us your full unvarnished opinion here. How would you vote on this, this Calder Trophy this year? Well, I think like every year when we do this, I kind of focus it on what they actually ask us. It's not the most valuable rookie. It's the most proficient rookie, correct? Like, it's the guy who you look at and say, this is the guy who looked like he was the best player when he was on the ice. And I think that creates some difficulties for me,

because I think on a per-game basis, I would prefer how Bedard looked to how Faber looked. Not to say that Faber didn't have a great year, playing a massive role for Minnesota. But for me, the stuff that Badard was, able to do on the ice is what he expected. He has special skill, offensive instincts. He plays with pace.

He can score from range. There was just a lot there that for me, you know, if he had done it in 20 or 30 games, it wouldn't have been as much of a selling point. But for me, like, I expect favor and what he can do because of skating, his compete. The offense he showed this year was way better than I thought. He looks like a real premium defense than in the league for a long time. But, you know, Badard to me is. showed to me he was a more special player this year. And he did it over a long enough period of time

to where that would be my lean. If I had a vote, but I don't. So Minnesota fans, don't get angry at me. I have no real sway on what's going to happen. Yeah, I'm, I'm with you too, Corey. And I do have a vote. So this will be, this will be fun. But, you know, I think the other thing, one thing to note, you know, Connor Bidar did suffer the injury. When you look at a points per game basis, you know, top 12 season all time in terms of points per game for a U-19 player in the NHL. You know, a lot of the guys ahead of them, you know, are our superstars. Obviously, you got guys like Connor Bidar or Connor McDavid and Crosby that average better than a point per game, but it just doesn't happen very often when you have a guy that

averages over 0.9 points per game. And I think Bidar, that's clear. But, you know, to me, if I'm looking at between the two players, I think age is always a factor when I vote as well. You know, I look at, I don't, you know, it takes a little bit more for a player to separate himself. But that said, I think that Brock Faber, to me, you know, he's a star defensive. I mean, I think he's got to be on the Olympic radar.

Again, he's already played in one Olympics. I think that you have to throw him in there in that mix with the, with the group they have for Team USA, which is crazy to think about after one season. Between those two players, though, I give the slight lean to Badard, but I think that the case for Faber is more than valid. So it's not, I think it'll be a tighter vote as a result, but really excited to see what happens. Yeah, I mean, and I get the point per game kind of tells us a little bit

about the level of dominance here, but we still got a vote on the games that happened and what actually took place this season. The one thing I'll say in favor is favor is that it did start to create a little bit of separation late. Yeah, I know I heard the same thing. But for a lot of this year, Faber was within five to 10 points of Connor Boudard while being a shutdown defenseman.

That really stands out to me. I don't know if he's going to win this award. I haven't decided how I'm voting yet. But I do think Faber has a real legit case here. And it's going to be a really interesting finish. Other names to watch on the ballot guys, just real quick. We'll touch Logan Cooley, Luke Hughes, anyone else that you feel like really belongs on a ballot this year. I didn't think you were going to ask us about the other rookies, Max.

There are other rookies? No, I mean, I think I think the guys that you that you pointed out are absolutely in consideration. You know, they're yeah, I think the way that things kind of shook out this year, it just feels like it's been a two horse race for so long. I still have to think a little bit more about where the rest of my ballot's going to go before it on Friday. Yeah, for sure. Like there's a lot of good options of guys, but I mean, I just think that the two horse race that this has been for so long kind of makes it, I'll have to. think about where three to five go on my ballot. Yeah.

All right. That's going to do it for us, guys. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. You can catch more of Chris, as always, over at Flow Hockey and on his podcast Talking Hockey Sense. The Sean's Gentilean McIndoo have the next, the athletic hockey show. That'll be Wednesday with Frank, the secret Sean Corrado. We'll talk to you soon.