The Athletic Hockey Show - Did a backup goalie change the course of the Cup Final?

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

The Oilers rebounded from a 3-0 first period deficit and a last second tying goal in the third period to beat the Panthers in overtime on the strength of Leon Draisaitl's game winner. Hailey and Sean discuss a shocking game four, the Oilers continued parade to the penalty box, Calvin Pickard's perfect playoff record and what we should expect in game five in Edmonton on Saturday night. Plus, they discuss the Rangers salary dump, sending Chris Kreider to the Ducks and Connor Helleybuyck becoming the first goalie in 10 seasons to win the Vezina and Hart Trophy.Hosts: Hailey Salvian and Sean GentilleExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Haley Salvean and Sean Gentilly here with you. The Edmonton Oilers, even the Stanley Cup Final 2-2 with a historic win on Thursday night in front of Taylor Swift, Sean, with their overtime win in front of Taylor Swift,

the Oilers became the first road team in Stanley Cup final history to rally from a. three gold deficit and wins since the Montreal Canadians did so in 1919, something we haven't seen in 106 years last night, Sean. And yeah, Taylor Swift randomly in the building. Glad we have cameras now. I know they won't choose this for a promotional cut or whatever, but my eyes almost rolled out of my head as soon as you mentioned that. I hit you with the with the eye roll that Sean McIndo loves so very much

that I do involuntarily involuntarily most of the time yeah congrats to congrats to her and Travis Kelsey and all involved I'm sure they had a lovely evening in sunrise Florida you saw a good game

how about that? Yeah I didn't even put that in the lineup because I knew you would see it and you sprung it on me so I was trying to just spring in some Swifty stuff throughout the pod. I'm mostly just kidding.

It was that was in the first period when the game was like out of hand. My major focus was like why is Taylor Swift at a hockey game right now? Like this is a Stanley Cup fine at that point like 3.0 Florida will talk about it. Like maybe one of the worst cup finals I'm watching right now. Like the Oilers are toast. The Panthers are killing it. ratings had been down, like, why the heck is Taylor Swift here? Then it ended up being an unbelievable game.

And I stopped thinking about Taylor Swift once the comeback started. But you were one of the people. You didn't tweet it so no one can go like old takes exposed on you, except for in the audio form. You were kind of like, oh, this is it. Like, even I was sitting on the couch, like, congrats to the Florida Panthers. You've won the Stanley Cup in the first period.

If this were two years ago or five years ago or ten years ago, like peak Twitter era before the site. Twitter era for you being a hater? I think just more when I, yeah, it's a, you know, the site left me and I also kind of left the site. For one reason or another. It would have been 25 minutes worth of just pure hater stuff from me. So I'm glad I didn't leave the breadcomb trail. Like I thought that's definitely what would have happened. Now I can just recount it on the podcast with the benefit of hindsight,

knowing what the result was. I don't have to get completely caught red-handed with that. Because I was like, these guys are, these guys are done. This is over. We got however many three, three games plus one period's worth of relevant Stanley Cup final action. They're done now. Bye, bye. And as it turns out, the Edmonton Oilers had something to say about it, right?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the first period, we can recap quickly. Like, they were brutal. Like, we can say it. They were brutal. The Panthers basically ran them out of the rink. Three nothing in the first period on two power play goals. Shots on goal were 17 to 7 after the last game where the Oilers had, I think, four penalties in the

first period. They come back with another parade to the penalty box. Three in the first period. Kachuk scores on two of them. One was a two-man advantage. The penalties and the PK, huge issue in this series for Edmonton. They've allowed seven goals against on 21 Panthers power plays. Like, you can't keep taking penalties if you can't kill them off, especially against a team that has like a second power play unit that would beat out most teams first units. And a first power play that was struggling, like pretty significant. Well, they scored both of the goals in this game. I'm saying into the series.

Like, like that was, that was certainly an issue at points for them, you know, in the playoffs so far. It's like, what's up? What's up with this unit two defensemen like is like should, should the Verheaghi Martian unit get more time, blah, blah. And like, yes, both both have been good basically. Like that's, they've been then, yeah, that's been. It's funny what's going up. up against a struggling power, P.K. can do it for you.

Yeah, Matthew Kuchukh scores two goals on the power play in the first period. It's 3-0. Yeah, they were just pretty lifeless, looked terrible. Chris Knoblock goes for another spark for the second straight game. He pulls starting goalie Stuart Skinner. And that was kind of the end, Sean, of the Skinner bounce back, Mr. Game 4 thing. right? When we came into the game and I was thinking like, why would you start Stuart Skinner again after he gets pulled last game?

And you had made the point when we were talking about this of like, well, he's been really good after getting pulled or he's been really good in game four, not last night. So Skinner's stats in the fourth game of a series heading into last night were unbelievable. Six and no record in those contests at one point. 26 goals against average and a 955 say percentage two shutouts. He'd been even better in his most recent of those appearances, 0.83 goals against 970 say percentage.

So that's why Stuart Skinner gets the start. I'll own that one. But I guess not fully because I get the stats, but then he was not good. I know there's going to be this great debate of like, was Skinner bad or were the oilers terrible? I think it's maybe a mix of both. Like we've seen so many ups and downs from Stuart Skinner

that it's like, does he deserve the benefit of the doubt? Or was he just bad? I think it's a little of both. I felt, I mean, you got to do something because your seasons on the line. So I don't disagree with the, with Noblak's decision to pull him.

But that first period wasn't, It wasn't all on him. I think, I think we can, we can say that pretty definitive. Like, when you go out and to, this is,

this was a takeaway from the first period for me. Like, it wasn't just the oilers were bad. It was that they were bad in the same ways that they were bad in the previous game. It's not just that they're taking penalties. It's that they're taking similar penalties that are just like, no doubt or no question, undebatable.

Like, we saw like, they're just leg whips and sticks to the face and all this. Like they're, you guarantee that. the officiating crew in a perfect world just because of game management and the perception of bias and all that BS that we have to deal with with NHL officiating. You know that if the officiating crew had their way, that first period would have gone different. They don't want to sit there and send a parade of oilers to the penalty box in the first period again.

That's just not the way, you know, playoff officiating works. They want stuff to be even and blah, blah. But Edmondson forced their hand, man, because they're there. Yeah, that wasn't possible. They're doing, no, they're doing, they're, they're doing dumb stuff again and paid for it again. And yeah, Stuart Skinner, you know, could he have, could he have been worse? Sure. But I, I have no problem with the decision to, with the decision to yank them.

Because at that point, your season's on the brink. You got people like me who were just like stick a fork in these days. Like, they're done like dinner. This is over with. So do something because it, because they're, because their, their season was kind of on the brink at that point. So bringing in Pickard made sense. But, yeah, I do, part of me does kind of feel, you know, a little, a little bad for Skinner. Yeah, it's a little bit of a mix of him being hung out to dry, but also I think the coach being right to be like he doesn't have it.

Like, we're playing bad in front of him. We need to spark, but like you might not have what it takes to cue the comeback. And Calvin Picker did. He comes in, thrown into the deep end again, down three nothing to start the second period. he pitches basically a shutout until Sam Reinhart ties the game with 19 seconds left. I think it was 18 straight saves up until that point. Then he makes a couple an OT. He was unbelievable. It's not just that he made those 18 straight saves to at that point during the comeback for the Oilers. They're timely saves.

The huge paddle stop on Anton Lendell midway through the second. second period at that point. The Oilers had just started climbing back into it. It was 3-1 at that point. And he makes that huge stop to keep them within two goals. And then Darnell Nurse and Pod Colson beat Sergei Bavrovsky twice in two minutes and 18 seconds to tie the game 3-3 at that point. So that save by Calvin Pickard is just huge in terms of the moment, keeping them in it. I think if Lundell scores there, then everyone's back to being like their top. this is over. It was fun while it lasted. Like, ooh, we had a little bit of excitement and now, now they're done.

And he came in, he made the timely saves. The big stop on Sam Bennett, we thought, like, watching it live, I thought that Bennett just rang the post. And then you see the replay and Pickard actually got a piece of that puck on the glove, which then ricocheted into the post. Just another huge stop. Like, he was, he was unreal. I think it's fair to say that he saved their season last night. We'll get to Leon Drysidal, but I think without Pickard,

they probably don't get to the point where Leon Drysidels the OT hero again. Every time a goalie gets pulled, it turns into like, well, you know, the backup, the backup's a guy that they play really hard in front of. Like, that's like the going line for broadcast crews most of the time in immediate people. Because that's the thing you got to, that's the thing you fall back on more than anything, right? And it's, and it's fine. There's, there is, there's a kernel of the truth in that. But I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm just like, hey, are we sure about that?

Like, are we sure that the Edmonton Oilers, you know, are playing harder in game four of the Stanley Cup playoffs with their, with their, than, than they were for Stuart Skinner. Like, no, I don't think so. And then, but, but then by the end of it, and I still don't think so. I think there was, I think that was an overall sense of urgency that, that, that they found its way into their game and they channeled it the right way and turned it into goals that's why they won at the end of that game when it's you know we have the we got mics on the ice yeah you know darnel nurse losing his mind and won't like the like these guys the the way they responded to pickard after the win that like retroactively made me kind

of be like uh maybe it couldn't hurt it's seem like they really do like playing in in front of that guy and it seemed like they were even more just like there so much of their celebration was directed like immediately at him right where where they were they were happy for themselves but it was also really clear that they were that they were psych that the picker got him there so yeah maybe it's maybe it's true maybe it's not the the the big takeaway is that you know he's more than good enough and he and he and he saved their bacon for sure because those are two plus periods of really strong goaltending and the kind of reliable stuff that they weren't getting from Skinner, right?

It's when you go and look at Daniel Nugent Bowman had a good story on Pickard up this morning and you look at some of the quotes from the guys post game, Leon Drysidle specifically talking about the situations he gets put in. They are not easy, but he makes the stops that we really need. He's one of the best in the league at making the right save at the right time. and he's been nothing but spectacular for us. And I think we need to almost like zoom out to and remember, like this is what's made the Oilers so interesting.

This season is specifically with this goalie tandem in the playoffs. Like, Pickard might have been the only reason they made it out of the first round against the L.A. Kings after Stuart Skinner had such a bad first two games, Pickard starts game three after a relief appearance in the previous game. they're in a two nothing hole. He replaces Skinner and he plays unbelievable. They beat the Kings. He only lost the starters crease because he got hurt against the Vegas Golden

Knights, misses a stretch of games. By then Skinner figures it out. He takes the starters net back. It's his crease to lose again. And he probably just lost it on Thursday night. I don't think there's any doubt who should be the starter in game, I guess game five, right? for the Edmonton Oilers.

But it's been this like kind of consistent back and forth between these two guys. And the one who's been unflappable, like the better of the two goalies when he's in the net has been Calvin Pickard. He's 7 and no. Like this isn't just some guy who comes in and relief and is like, oh, it's 3. Nothing. Now we're going to lose 6-2 or whatever. Like Pickard's in. We're going to keep getting pumped.

He hasn't lost yet. And he played in 36 games in the regular season too. I think that's something that people, you know, casuals or maybe people who weren't paying attention to the Edmondson Rollers all that closely in the regular season because they are that team to some extent now. It's like, I will just, we'll catch up with them. See you in the finals. Yeah, whatever. We'll catch up with them in April and see. Like I played a lot of games.

He played a lot of games last year. Pretty effective in all of them. I mean, he's established himself as a as a legit one B, let's say. Yeah. And it really is. It's a crazy, like, here's quite a story. Well, here's here's where I was at with Calvin Pickard last year, really, when he stepped up and got a lot of games for them for them down the stretch. I was like, is that is that the same guy that the abs took in the first round like a million years ago?

I was like, that's just some other. I was like, I thought that guy's name was Calvin Picard. This is Calvin Pickard. Is this like, there are different Calvins that, that were drafted, you know, early on. Calvin Pickard, Jr. 33 years old. man first round picked by the by the abs way back when you know never got a foothold there bounced around all over the place he's in philly he's in toronto i covered i covered him when he

was on the marlies in my first year at the athletic six years ago i'm just glad we know how to pronounce his last name now that's what's important might just be me i thought i was pickard's peanuts is that a canadian thing i don't know what that is yeah there's it's a peanut place near my parents some Niagara on the lake. Pickards Peanuts. Maybe that's pronounced Picard's, I don't know. Is Calvin the heir to the peanut fortune of the Greater Niagara region? Who knows?

Spelled differently. Who knows? Spelled differently. But to your original point to Sean, though, like I think the mental aspect of playing harder in front of the backup is, like I would actually love to hear from like a retired goalie or a goalie

coach. Like I want to hear from a backup goalie about this one day. Like Jesse Granger should go and write this story if he has already because I want to know about the psychology to that like did the Edmonton oilers really need to play like crap and see Skinner pulled to play well it like what's i want to know what's going on there i always struggle with that um i remember talking to a coach about the mental aspect of playing in front of like a streakier struggling goalie and i do think there is something real there maybe not the same.

The situation I was talking to this coach about is different than maybe what Stuart Skinner is going through. But there was this sense of like the team in front of the goalie went into games knowing our goalie is struggling. We're probably going to be down to nothing in the first period. So you're almost like playing in a different way because you're just dreading the moment that your goalie is going to let in a weak goal. And then it happens.

and then you sink your shoulders. It's like, there it is. They don't have it. And it's like this self-fulfilling prophecy with teams playing in front of streakier, struggling, goaltender. So I wonder if there's something like that happening with the Oilers. But we should also say, too, sounds like Corey Perry made quite the speech in the room

after the first period. So maybe it's a mix of like, we played like garbage. Our goalie got pulled. Corey Perry just ripped us a new one. We got to get our stuff. together or the season's over. Yeah. We're down, we're down three goals to the defending champs, the, the guys that beat us last

year and 40 minutes away from going down three, one. Because that's it. That's game over. Like, I know, I know we saw them almost, we saw Florida almost blow it last year, but let's be real about, about what Edmonton was, was staring down the barrel at, you know? I also, who had the, I, I, you mentioned the Perry thing when, when we were talking before the show. who, where did that come out of?

Was that, was that, was that, was that D&B? Yeah. No, it was post game. People were, I saw some tweets about it, Leon Drysiddle. Drysiddle had some like very funny quotes last night. He said something like in the first period, we were lollygagging around and it's just not the time to be lollygagging. It's like, you're so right, Leon.

You're my favorite hockey player. It is not, it is not the time. It's a lollygagging, Leon. That's correct. But he said, most of the players last night who were asked about this. I guess it came out from one of the players that Perry

because, you know, after games like that, media will always go in and be like, what happened in the first intermission? So somebody made the admission that Corey Perry spoke to the group. There's a ton of leaders, but Corey Perry stood up. And Drysidal said, when Corey speaks up, you listen. So it seems like he was the one that was

maybe like, get it together, guys. He's like, I'm not losing in the cut final again. I've done this too many times. He's like, I'll go away if we just get this done. Please, please stop me from going through this ordeal yet again. Yeah.

So Corey Perry makes a speech. They pull, they pull Stewart Skinner, Pickard. I just had a moment of how do I pronounce his name? Pickard comes in, plays great. And they cue the comeback. We said, New Jersey Hopkins, nurse, pod coals in. Jake Walman makes four or three. I think everyone on their couches were like,

oh, Steve Eiserman. Yeah, because he had to send San Jose an extra second round pick for that goal. It was a weird conditional, but it's true. Yeah. And Leon Drysiddle, he's the OT hero again. Do we want to save some Leon chat for the next segment? Because we're going to talk about NHL awards.

Leon Drysidl did not win the Hart Trophy. we can gas them up. Let's take a quick break when we come back. We'll talk about the heart trophy. Spoiler alert. Connor Hallibuck wins it. He wins the heart and the Bezna. Leon Drysidal finish a second.

We know you don't get to vote before the postseason. But Leon Drysiddle, he's the hero again. In game four, the Stanley Cup final. We'll talk about him and losing the Hart trophy coming up next on the Athletic Hockey Show. All right, welcome back to the athletic hockey show. Leon Drysidal, the OT hero again last night in a 5-4 overtime win by the Edmonton Oilers, they tie the series up to two,

two. We can start with the goal because I thought it just looked like cool as hell, dry sidles the best. And then I saw a bunch of Panthers fans being like, it was a fluke. He didn't mean to do that. It's like, oh. So it shouldn't count? Like, where are we at? Where are we at? on this.

Here's one hand on the stick, shovels the puck past. Yeah, there's a deflection, still beat Sergey Wabrofsky. It still looked very cool. And I saw some Panthers fans. They're just like, fluke gold doesn't matter. What? If you have the strength and the skill in the presence of mind to put the puck anywhere in the general vicinity of the net on that play, you are entitled to a

whatever the outcome may be. I think that's, I think that's where it likes. Yeah, sure, it bounced off, it bounced off Mikola, right?

But it, but the fact that, you know, the fact that he even, he got the puck on that with one hand. The fact that he put himself in a position, even get that shot off is remarkable, right?

And it's just the latest second OT winner in the, in the series. I know, he was disappointed. I, he was extremely hurt last year, but, you know,

still was upset, I think, with his own lack of, you know, point production in that in in that series understandably and he's making up for last time now i mean he he is man there's something that's just different we love mac david he's the best player on earth like we can underline it and we say it and blah blah blah okay wait can i can i can i yes go i was watching the game last night and it was in it was when the goalie was pulled and i watched

like a failed clearing attempt. And at this point, I'm already up. I'm like, okay, I'm rejuvenated. I'm cheering for the Oilers at this stage. And somebody fails to clear the puck. And I yelled at my TV. Like, who is this bum? It was Connor.

And then, what a loser. Clean the puck, brother. It was Connor McDavid. Everyone. And then it was immediately like, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry, sorry. Never mind. That was actually, that actually was completely understandable. That was the right play. He was trying not to throw the puck over the glass.

It was smart. No harm, no foul. I think, I think he was, I think he was trying to skate it out, realize he couldn't. And then it was like, oh, I need to make sure I don't take a penalty here. Yeah, and I called the greatest player on the planet a bomb. It's fine. Anyway, as you were, Leon Drysidal. There's something different about watching Leon Drysidal take over a game, whether it's in the playoffs, whether it's in November, it just looks different when he's doing it.

I actually, I wrote about this. I wrote about this the year before last. Two years ago when he was unbelievable. It was in that series. It was a second round series against, against Vegas. And in the first, obviously Vegas ends up, taking care of business. And I think that might have been the Western Conference final, actually.

Doesn't matter. there were he was on a halacious point streak at that point and also again it's like as the year he had 32 points in 16 playoff games yeah and he's playing he's playing it was the year after him he was playing on a broken ankle he was still hurt like it's just like crazy crazy stuff and it is man he's one of those guys and we'll put macdavid in this category as well it's like when he's when he's on the ice you know it and when he jumps over the boards you're like let's go. And I think that's, I think that's what we saw last night, right? Like, that was, that was takeover stuff from him. There were several moments last night where McDavid and Drysidal

both did things that not many players in the world can do. And, oh my God, I need someone to put like a sound effect on the McDavid move that made Eckblad just like sit down. Oh my God. Just like, wee? Yeah, like a cartoon like like like like, like, a loony tune sound sting like something it's it's so funny he just sits down and it's like you have these moments of like mac david is so he's just so fast and there's nothing else you can say like you watch it happen and like you're a bum uh you're so fast and unbelievable at hockey raise your hand raise your hand if you've been victimized by connor mac david karen mcdivad and it's Aaron Eckblad does it twice based on,

based on two separate goals in this series. Well, he didn't score, but it was just an unbelievable play. You're right. I saw Josh Yoey tweet this, and I wanted to ask your opinion, obviously, being in and from Pittsburgh. He said that Leon's goal was freakishly similar to Evgeny Malkin in overtime against the caps in Game 5 in 2009.

100%. And does he sometimes give shades of like prime Malkin in the sense that like, and this is always the comp, right? Sydney Crosby best player on the planet of Gennie Malkin, one of the best players on the planet didn't get enough credit. Does he, does Drysidl remind you of prime Malkin in the postseason? With the puck on a stick for sure.

I think, I think Malkin at his best had a sixth year as a skater. The Drysaddle doesn't have. But that's not the ticket. anything away from Leon, right? Like he's, he's absolute overall, just he's Malkins peer. I think in terms of caliber a player for sure. I mean, like those guys are, those guys are, those guys are, those guys are fantastic. And also the other important thing, and this is, you know, not to make stuff about, about the penguins, I swear to God that this is relevant to the oilers.

We'll make this quick. Yeah. Crosby and Malkin were stylistically different. So, so you would get one out there on one shift and you would get Malkin out. you would get sit out there on one, then chase it with Malkin. And I think there was always a little bit of a system shock when you got to go from one guy who's a great player cut from one cloth and then a second who's just another, just a different variety. And I think we see that on some level from, from McDavid and in dry sidle, right? Like it's not just that they're all world incredible.

It's that they're different. And you need to account for that on a shift to shift basis. So yeah, I do. I unfortunately, I see things through that lens because that's just my default mode in these parts. So Drysidal, that OT winner, he had the OT winner in game one as well. He becomes the fifth player in NHL history with multiple overtime goals in the Stanley Cup final. That was also his fourth overtime winner of the postseason. Or was it his fifth?

It's now a record for goals in the playoffs. in a single season. OT goals in a single season in the postseason for Leon Dries. Fifth player in NHL history with multiple overtime goals in one Stanley Cup final and we're four games in, right? This is just, we're watching

something special, I think, right now from him. Yeah, and you can't deny that he's one of the best players in the world. It would. You'd be a fool. But what is interesting is before game four of the Stanley Cup final where Leon Drysidal once again puts a stamp on his legacy on this series,

he loses the heart trophy. Connor Hellebuck, that's the big news heading into the game. Connor Hellebuck doesn't just win the Vesna Trophy for the second straight year. He wins the rare heart trophy, Vesna Trophy combination. Only the sixth time in NHL history that that has happened for a goaltender, I think it's the first time since Carrie Price in 2015. He joins

Elite Company, Dominic Hashek, Josie Theodore. Not many goalies have ever done this, right? We can give Hellebuck his flowers in a moment, but how do you feel about Leon Drysidal not winning the Hart Trophy in a year where he was,

even before the postseason, probably the best player in the NHL? I think it looks worse in hindsight. Like the timing on this is brutal because we see, you know, the jets go down. We see Hella Buck struggle pretty significantly. Even though on and off, he wasn't bad for the duration of the playoffs,

but he was bad for more of it than he wasn't, let's just say. You know, so he's been at home for a while. He's been fishing in his backyard on that lake where he got the hard trophy in the, in the Vezna trophy for a decent chunk of time now. And you have Leon Dreiside doing stuff like we saw last night doing like he already has one OT game winner.

I think it I think it all looks worse for an award that is voted on by the by puck drop at the first game of the playoffs. Those are the rules, right? You have to have your stuff submitted by the moment, by the moment of puck drops in the first game. I think there's a I think there's an alternate reality where the playoffs go a little, even a little bit differently. and people are a little bit less, uh, less vocal about this than they have been. Um, but if I would have had to vote this year, I would have been, it would have, it would have been dry subtle for sure. And I think part of that's due to the production. And I think part

of that's due to how much he's improved as a five on five player. He's like, he had a good year defensively period. And that is given where he was five, even when he won his first MVP, given, given where, given how he's grown from from that point. I think, I think, I think that just makes them all the more impressive in my view. So yeah, if I had a vote by night, one of the playoffs, he would have been, he would have been my guy. I just, I feel, I feel bad about completely going too far in on it, though, just because of, you know, it's such like situations that are kind of out of everybody's control on this one. Yeah. And Hellebuck had one of the better regular seasons by a goalie in recent history, right? Anchor behind Winnipeg's 116 point

season. They win the president's trophy. He leads the NHL with 47 wins. It was nine more than the next best goal tender. Eight shutouts. Two goals against average. 9.25 say percentage. That was second to Anthony Stolars. Heavy workload as usual. He starts 63 out of 82. And his goals above expected was better than anyone else in the third most by any goalie since 2007, 49.48 goals saved above expected. Almost, almost 20 above second place. Like, he's lap in the field. If ever there were a time to give the goalie, the heart, it's, it's now. It was this year and it was Connor Hellebuck. He was unbelievable. He won the, They won the Jennings trophy again.

Second consecutive year for that. That's given to the goalies, the goalie tandem. It's the tandem, but he played 63 games. So it's mostly Hella back. Fun factor. Only, only Connor Halebuck gets the Jennings trophy because Eric Comrie didn't play enough to qualify for it. Oh my God.

There's like, there's a threat. There's a threshold that you got to play to get your name on it. And Comrie didn't meet it. That's, that's how much Connor Hellebuck played this year. So he won the Jennings trophy for the best goalie tandem by himself. And that's given to the goalies that give up the fewest goals in the NHL. Best team goaltending. And, you know, he has it all to his lonesome.

So, yeah, it's an interesting kind of we can talk about the dry sidel now is like, yeah, it would have been cool to see dry sidel get the heart. trophy before or after because the league has been doing this like surprise video thing. I wouldn't give someone a major trophy before a game because then maybe it would be like distracting. But imagine he's the OT hero and then Connor McDavid walks in with the heart trophy after like, here you go. Congratulations. It's easy to sit here and say that now in hindsight to your original point, Sean.

But Connor Hallibuck, yeah, if there was a goalie who's going to win the heart trophy over the last 10 years since Carrie Price did it. it was going to be Connor Hallibuck. It was going to be this year. It shouldn't take, like Leon Drysidal's playoffs shouldn't take away from what Helibuck is doing. Hellebuck did in the regular season. But yeah,

it's tough when the Jets are out. And he was not good in the playoffs again. I think on some level you could give a goalie to Hart Trophy every year, just based strictly on the textbook definition of value. And that's why I struggle with it. Like, do we just give, certainly, based on these standards, there's goalies who would have deserved it in the past and didn't get it, right?

So I, I kind of, I kind of struggle with that. Yeah. It's unfair. So you end up turning the heart into the best forward award, which is a whole other, whole other, whole other discussion to have, unfortunately. You think the NHL should do a forward of the year award so that if they had an award that was just for like the best forward not the rocket not the art ross like best forward in the league do you think if that were to happen more goalies and defenders would end up on heart trophy ballots

a hundred percent there's no question in my mind that if there were a top forward award which you know bwhal has for example and that's why there's a defender as an MVP finalist in the BWHL because it's like, yeah, well, Sarah Filier can get her flowers as forward to the year instead of MEP. Now that's part of the mental math that you have to do, right? If you're like, if you're, if you say like, well, I, I'd like to, I'd like to vote for Kail McCar in year X or whatever. But if that happens, that means that, you know, Leon Drysoddle or Nikita Kutcherov or Nick Suzuki or whoever doesn't, doesn't, doesn't get honored in, in any real way. I think that's, I think that's a tough choice to make people face down. So I'm like all for it. Let's get it. Forward of the Year.

The Wayne Gretzky Award or something. Like it's easy. Yeah. I didn't get an NHL ballot this year, but on my PWHL ballot, I did have Renata Fast for MVP. You could have voted whoever. And then I voted for Poulin for Forward of the Year. Easy. You just clear the path.

You can elevate the MVP. You put that above everything else. You have goalie of the year forward of the year. defender of the year and that's that. It seems easy. It's something they should have done already, honestly. We should talk about this too when we're discussing the awards conversation.

This wouldn't have changed the ballot greatly because Connor Hellebuck had 81 first place votes. Leon Drysadle had 53. Actually, how many points is the first place vote get? Five. Okay, then yeah, this wouldn't have swung the vote either way. But

somebody and I don't love when people go in on folks for their ballots like I don't love when you see okay here's the ballot and then everyone's like on the manhunt to find the one guy who did or woman who did ex vote let's bring out our pitchforks but this one's tough and again wouldn't have changed anything hellebuck won by over 140 points but somebody did have Nick Suzuki with a first place ballot. First place vote, excuse me, Leon Drysidal was number two on this ballot. It's the only person that had Nick Suzuki with a first place vote. He got nine fifth place votes.

Totally fair. Totally fair. I think that's kind of where Suzuki enters to have him as a fifth place. 100%. Throw him a bone at the bottom of your ballot. He was great this season. But a first place vote for Nick's

Zuki is maybe a little egregious. He's tied for fourth in points after the, after the four nations break. He's the engine for that team, you know, making that push that got him in the playoffs has become a legitimately good two-way center, not just a guy who people think is a good two-way center.

Like, I got all the time in the world for Nick Suzuki. Like, like, here's, Shane, Goldman, our, our buddy,

she had him, she had him fifth. And that's it, like, right? And that's completely, complete, completely fine.

I think it's, I think that's part of what makes a conversation, an interesting one is like, there's a difference between first and fifth plays. There's a, and that speaks to the gap between being, you know, someone who's in the discussion for a,

for a vote and then someone who's, who's at the top, right? And you've got to be able to, to me, you got to be able to differentiate between that. There's a, there's a difference between truly elite players and then, and then,

the best of the best of the best. and then someone who had a really, really nice year. And I think that's kind of what we're talking about here. I feel bad for Nick. I feel bad that like this is turn, this turns in like a, you know, a backdoor way of slagging Nick Suzuki.

And I don't, I don't, I wish that wouldn't be part of it because he was fantastic, right? And he's a, he's a really, really good player. We're not saying Nick Suzuki was terrible.

We're saying having Nick Suzuki over Hellabuck and Drysidal and Kutrov is probably, not the right ballot. Who else got first place votes? Did McCarget any? Well, so that's the problem. Nick Suzuki got more first place votes than Connor McDavid.

McDavid did not get a first place vote and part of that's the dry sidel factor for sure. Alex Ovechkin got one first place vote. Yeah, that's tough. I think that's way worse than giving a first place vote to that's more like narrative driven.

and Zach Werenzky got one first place vote. I think people got to and then everyone else was like in the, you know, Kutrov got 25, McKinnon got 27. I'm kind of surprised that Werenstki only got one to tell you the truth. Like I thought maybe, I thought maybe he would get a few. I think when he only got one second place vote too. I think people were ready. I think there were, I think there was a decent, decent voting, voting block that was ready to

give Zach Wrenski first, second, third place votes and then, you know, it tailed off a little bit at the end. But I thought he was going to show up a little bit. Even still, I thought he was going to show up a little bit more than he did. Yeah, Renski

finishing 7th is a little surprising, but yeah, he got 19. He got mostly 5th place votes, 19 5th place votes. McCarr did not get, Kail McCar did not get a first place vote. Okay. I mean, he shouldn't have, right? Yeah.

Like, okay. Oveskin, Oveskine first place is way worse than Suzuki. You think so? Uh-huh. I do. And I say this as someone who has written glowingly about Alex Oveskin for the last five months or whatever. What he did was remarkable. He wasn't even the MVP on that team, let alone he might not have been top three on his own team, let alone be in first league wide. That's a wild one. Yeah, I think when you watch the caps now, you kind of realize that this is, I don't know if, unless you're watching them a lot, maybe you don't realize like that's Tom Wilson's team now.

I'm not saying Tom Wilson's like their MVP, but it kind of seems like the way he goes, they go more often than not. Let's take a break. When we come back, we're going to do a really quick chat. We didn't even get to the other news from yesterday. Chris Kreider was traded.

Was that yesterday? I don't know what date is anymore. Finalized it's on Thursday, yes. Chris Kreider waves his no trade clause to head to Anaheim. So the Rangers are making some cap space. We'll break that trade down a little bit and look ahead towards Panthers, Oilers, game five. That's coming up next on the athletic hockey show. All right, welcome back to the athletic hockey show.

The New York Rangers traded Chris Kreider to the Anaheim ducks on Thursday for a prospect, Carrie Terrence. The deal also includes a draft pick swap with the Rangers getting a 2025 third round pick number 89. And the Ducks getting a 2025 fourth round pick number 104. Kreider was the Rangers first round pick in 2009. The club's longest tenured player. The Rangers are not retaining any of his $6.5 million average annual value cap hit.

What do you think about this, Sean? I think a big part, Kreider, as we mentioned in the last segment at the end there, 15 team no trade list. That included Anaheim, according to Pierre LeBron, but he agreed to the trade on Thursday, which kind of laid the tracks for this to officially go down. Yeah, they were interested in him back when they traded for Truba, back when Chris Jury made those guys available in the first place.

It sounds like Joel Quinville taking that job, maybe help grease the skids for Crider to accept it, which is interesting. Um, I like it for both. It's a boring answer, but I like it for both teams. I think cap isn't an issue for the Anheim Ducks right now. It doesn't matter that Chris Kreider's a little bit overpaid. He's the kind of guy that, you know, that they need theoretically if they want to make that jump into being more firmly in the, at least in the playoff conversation. They finished strong last year, by the way, which was weird.

It's what made the decision to fire Greg Cronin kind of kind of funky. at the end. But they, you know, they showed some growth. I think guys like Mason McTavish got better last year. I think they're at the point in their lifespan right now where they need to take another step forward and they need to,

you know, keep surrounding those guys with legitimate NHL players and Crider. Certainly, you know, qualifies as such. On the Rangers end of things, you know, you need a cap space.

You got to worry about Candreay Miller. they have a bunch of their own RFAs and UFAs that they need to get that they need to get figured out Will Cooley. Like there are good players who are due some money. And I think now New York's got 15 million or thereabouts in space. If your jury, you have some more wiggle room there. Maybe you get in a conversation for some for some UFAs, if that's your thing. Like I get it. I can see why both teams did it.

And I think ultimately, you know, both teams are in better shape now than they were yesterday. And I guess that's, you know, it's the point of all this, isn't it? Yeah, Crider finishes third place on the all-time goal list for the New York Rangers, 326, tied for first and power play playoff goals. He's the franchise leader in playoff goals as well. So big player for that franchise going to Anaheim. It doesn't seem like his cap hit. He's got two years left on that deal.

Puckpedia had them with $38 million. dollars to spend before adding Crider to the books. Like, I don't think that's going to fully impede their ability to try to grab a big free agent or re-sign Mason McTavish. He's their kind of premier RFA that they need to lock in this summer. Trevor Zegris, Leo Carlson, those contracts are coming up. They're going to be RFA's in 2026. So maybe they'll have some decisions on who to prioritize then.

But you can kick that can down the road to 2026, see how this season goes. first. Chris Kreider. Chris Kreider. Yeah, Chris Kreider making a million and a half more than he should or whatever is just that's an issue for New York maybe, but ain't an issue for Anheim. This isn't going to stop

them from doing anything. So that's part of what makes it, I think, reasonable for both sides. It's the New York Ducks with Chris Kreider, Jacob Truba, Ryan Strom and Frank Petrano. Yeah, we're all doing this. We're all doing this for a team that's going to finish

six points out of the playoff race or whatever. like we're just trying to, it's much, it's much to do about nothing. I, I, I, I, I, I think there's still, there's still some additions away from anybody needing to take them seriously, really, but this is, you know, it's a, it's a decent step in the right direction. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those trades where, like you said, it's like, yeah. Okay. Okay. On to the next, on to the next one. Yes. B plus. Bs all around. Good job, everyone. A tidy bit of work, I guess what you'll say. To finish the show, Sean. how do we feel heading into game five of the Stanley Cup final? Like, what do we make of the Panthers blowing? The three nothing lead, they end up making it interesting. Sam Reinhart ties it up dramatically. You know, maybe this series is actually great after all,

and that game three was the outlier with Edmonton getting destroyed. I don't know, what do you think? Is this going to be another OT game? Can the Panthers bounce back? How do we feel? I think if there were some other team, I'd be a lot more worried about it. The fact that it's Florida,

you know, given what we've seen from them over the last couple years, given that we saw them, you know, already blow a series lead and have to come back and win a game seven against this exact team.

It makes me worry about it, worry about them a little less. But, man, three goals up, two periods away from a three-one lead. That's, if it were,

if it were someone else, if the shoe were on, on the other foot and we're talking about the Edmonton Oilers blowing a three goal lead to in that same in that same position I'd be like stick a fork in them they're done not feeling that way for the Panthers though I will never I'm not going to pick against the Panthers until they give me give me a reason to that I learned my lesson with the Tampa Bay series in the first round we we don't have to talk about that people make mistakes stop bringing that up we all I don't know what you're talking about.

Every hockey writer on the planet picking Tampa to win the Stanley Cup. Just the ones. It's a fireable offense for all of us. Just the ones who work here. No, ESPN and SportsNet all did it too. It was everywhere. All right. Thanks, Sean.

And thanks, everyone for listening to this episode, The Athletic Hockey Show. I guess we did this on a Friday. Yes, it is. That's wild. Max and Laz will have the next show on Monday. We'll be back on Thursday.

Unless the game's... Unless it goes to seven, then we could go Friday again. Oh, wait, no, then the game would be on Friday. Never mind. We'll see everyone on Thursday. Thanks, everyone, for listening to this episode. Sean, I'll talk to you next week.

No math, please. That hurt my brain.