The Athletic Hockey Show - Did Patrick Roy cross the line in Dallas?

Episode Date: November 19, 2025

Patrick Roy was caught on mic threatening Stars forward Miko Rantanen after his hit on Islanders defender Alex Romanov in Dallas on Tuesday night. Sean, Frankie and Sean discuss the code, Roy's threat to Rantanen and what the league will say about it. The guys marvel at Matthew Schaefer, Mark Scheifele and the historic night for Connor Bedard and Macklin Celebrini. Plus, Sean and Sean call out JT Miller's lackluster back check on a Golden Knights goal in Vegas last night.Hosts: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeWith: Frankie CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What up, what up? The Athletic Hockey Show, it is November 19th, 2025. I am Sean Jinteli, and I am joined by two guys who aren't going to finish the game in New York in a couple months. Reggie Carrato and Sean McIndoo. Is that a promise? You promise? I think you left out a word from the sound bite.

You know, I have a list of words we're not allowed to say on this anymore. And it'll shock you that Patrick Waugh last night dropped one of those in his caught on Mike rant after a hit by Miko Rantanin. Fellas, let's just start there. That seems like that's the thing that everybody's talking about today. Let's start with the hit itself. It's ranting in on Ramanov. I actually just watched it the first time. I was so taken aback by what Wa said.

so tickled by what he said that I didn't actually watch the hit. So what do we think there? Are we going to have a conversation on the hit or are we talking about the code? Because I think there's two things at play here, right? Like there's the hit that happens. And if we're breaking down the hit, like, Ranton is not a dirty player. He doesn't have this inclination to run guys from behind. He's a strong, physical guy.

But that's not, this is not something that we've seen. from Miko Rantin. If someone can post a compilation of Rantanin, running guys in the numbers that I am not aware of, go for it. Prove me wrong. But this is an isolated thing by Rantanin. And when you watch the play develop, you can clearly see, like, Mayfield is trying to get his stick into the way of Rantanin. So he impedes Rantan a little bit, which rightfully so, like, that's your right to do as a defenseman to a certain degree. You run a little, a little interference, whatever you can get away with. And then their skates collide and it's the worst spot on the ice. It's like three, four feet away from the boards.

Romanov's facing the boards. Rantanin's a huge body. So he's kind of, his momentum's taking him into Romanoff. It's just a bad storm of a hit, really. Like that's not, that's not a guy's making a play and you go and truck stick him from behind and finish, you know, the guys face into the boards. Now, okay, that's the hit. part, but the code, like we talk about the code on all kinds of things.

The coach yelling at the opposing player and saying you're not going to finish the game, like, that's not cool. Like, coaches don't like that type of stuff. That's kind of crossing the line. Listen, like, I have all kinds of time for Patrick Wall. He was very gracious. We called a CHL series his team in Quebec versus Halifax. And he was very gracious with his time.

He talked to us before every game. He was awesome to deal with. But I think that's one of those ones. You got to let the players talk about that stuff. You want to talk to Gulletson? Sure. Like you could talk to the coach, but you can't talk to the players.

And I thought the way Gulletson handled it afterwards in the media, just kind of breaking down the hit and how, you know, was a little bit of an accident. And I thought Gulletton handled it really well. So two things at play. I don't know if you guys disagree on any of that, but that's my kind of first thought on everything that went down last night. Yeah, and we should be clear if anyone listening to this didn't hear the comments or doesn't know the context for Patrick Waugh. This is Patrick Waugh yelling at Miko Ranton as he's leaving the ice. Okay, this isn't like a sound bite after the game or him saying something to the media. But. And it's like he's picked up, picked up clear his day on a boom mic. Very clear. This wasn't like, you know, you hear something off in distance. Because you've got an injured player, right? It's, it's, the arena's quiet. Like nobody's, you know,

really making much noise other than Patrick Waugh, who's yelling at him that the next time they play, you're not going to eff and finish the game, which even given that it's heat of the moment, and I'm sure stuff gets said between the benches that we don't hear quite as clearly and everything, the league is not going to like that. Ever since Colorado, Vancouver and Todd Bertuzi and all of that stuff, the league does. does not want to hear anything that could sound like a threat or a promise or, you know, premeditated. Bingo.

Yeah. Any of that. And remember what that situation was with Colorado in Vancouver, that was Mark Crawford, who was Patrick Waugh's coach in Colorado during all the crazy Detroit stuff. So, I mean, there's a connection there that, you know, I'm sure Patrick Waugh knows that he shouldn't have said it, or at least that he is not happy that he got caught saying it. And he knows that phone call is coming. It's probably already happened.

And he knows that the next time these two teams play, now it's going to be a bigger deal for the league. You know, the league, I'm sure, will send people just like they sent paros to the Panthers lightning game. They'll do that whole thing and warn everyone and make sure that nothing comes of it. because you just can't have a situation where something happens. And instead of being a spur of the moment, oh, this just happened on the ice, it becomes premeditated. The coach told me to do it. The coach gave me the go ahead.

So that's going to be a problem for Patrick Juan, the Islanders. It'll be a fine or it'll be something. And it'll make it much harder for them to do anything down the line if they were even inclined to do it. I tend to agree with you, Frankie, on the hit. I think they sort of clip skates and it was more of an unfortunate situation than anything. But it was five minutes and they did review it. Yeah. And they stuck with the five minutes.

So I don't know. Do we think suspension coming? I don't think so. I don't think so because the five minute major is probably the fitting punishment where you could look at it and say, time served. Like, he did it, right? The league kind of looks at that as like almost a one game suspension of its own. We've seen that in the past. And these two teams play against on March 26th.

March 26th? Yeah, that's when they play. I mean, we've all had these conversations in one way or another. Like I used to talk to someone with the Department of Player Safety when hits were an even bigger problem. Dirty hits were a bigger problem. We were talking about suspensions and whatever else. every other game it felt like. And something that always stuck with me

that this person said over and over and over again is like some dirty hits are just penalties. Like that's, you gotta remember that. Like, that's what the majors for. Like sometimes stuff can be dirty and it can be a hit that you don't want without rising to the level of, you know, get this guy out for three or four.

My question, frankly, this is probably more for you, is is there any chance that when Waz doing video or whatever, he looks at that and says like, hmm, okay. Actually, it wasn't, you know, Mayfield, Mayfield got his, got his stick out a little bit. Like maybe it goes, it goes to the guys like, you know what, never, never mind, don't injure this guy on, on March 26th.

It actually wasn't as bad as I thought. There's probably some people and some coaches that would look at that and say, eh, okay, maybe I was a little off. I overreacted a little bit, right? Something tells me that's not in the cards, you know? I don't know if that's the guy who's going to say that, right? Like, he has been, if anything, throughout his entire playing and coaching career, staunch in his opinion on how he views things for better or worse.

Obviously made him incredibly successful as a goal. goaltender and has had a lot of success as a as a coach now at the junior level at the NHL level. So no, I don't think, I think he could watch it a hundred times over. And I'm just purely speculating. Like I have no, no inside knowledge. But it just strikes me as the type of guy that's watching that. What I didn't call you last night?

It didn't text you like, hey, I checked. I'm sure he's watching that. It's actually not that bad. Yeah, like everyone else is wrong. And I'm right. But here's, here's my other question, okay. like, okay, a coach throws out, let's call it a promise. Let's not call it a threat. Let's just call it. A coach throws out a promise to a player that he's not going to finish the game. It's about the implication, as Dennis Ramich once said, yes. So if you go through the Islanders roster right now, and by the way, the Islanders have done an unbelievable job this year standing up for Matthew Schaefer. Like any time something has happened to him specifically, it's everyone in. And let's just pack mentality it, right? No one has to feel like they're a, underdog or outgunned or whatever.

But this is different. This is like, if you're talking about Miko Ranton, he's six foot four, 225 pounds, like he's a force. And you're going to see, okay, trying to envision how he doesn't finish this game, which is crazy to talk about it the way we're talking about it. Who's doing that? I'm looking at their roster right now. Like, who, who is it?

It might be Patrick Waugh. He might be the guy. Yeah. It would be Patrick, number one. and number two would be if Matt Martin potentially came out of retirement. I'm not even convinced that would get it done. Like, no one's doing it. So, listen,

spike is drink at intermission. Yeah, like emotions, emotions run high, heat of the moment, right? Like, that's, that's been, wah, forever, very fired up. But I think when it all, when everything kind of blows over, maybe his opinion of the hit won't change, Sean, but his reaction to it afterwards, I'm sure he would probably say that that was a little too far. And I, you know, it's two teams.

They're not in the same conference. So you're right. They don't play again for four months. This might be a very different situation if it was a home and home. If this was like the Rangers and the Islanders at the old school Patrick division, in a home and home series where you'd be worried that tempers are still going to be hot. But I got to say this, you guys maybe saw me perk up a few minutes ago, because I knew, I'd seen somewhere they don't play for four months.

They don't play till March. Okay, you know, that's the way the schedule works. But Frankie, you said it, and I just double-checked it. You're right. March 26th. March 26th? Does this date mean anything to anyone? I know it means a lot to some fans in Colorado in Detroit, March 26, famously, that's fight night at the Joe.

And who was in the middle of that? I seemed like there was Claude Lemieux and Derr McCarty, and there was some crazy goaltender who went nuts that Patrick Waugh. You telling me Patrick Waugh is not looking at the calendar and seeing March 26 and just twitching a little bit about payback. Because I'll tell you, you know who didn't finish the game that night was Claude Lemieux. So the game has changed a lot in 29 years, which is what we're talking about. It's changed a lot for the better. I'll say it. But I love that it's Patrick Wah in the middle of this.

I don't know if this is the hockey gods messing with us or what it is. But yeah, good old Patrick. He's going to, I'm sure hear about it a little bit the next few days and then in the lead-up to that game. Maybe hide the calendars from Patrick Kwa. Just to be safe. Do you guys remember that old? clip from, I think it was a high school football player. It went viral where he was talking about how you guys had us in the first half, right? Not going to lie. Yep. Not going to lie, Sean,

you had me in the first half just there because when you start talking about March 26 and you're like, do you guys know what March 26 this? And I'm like, yeah, it's my birthday. Like, why is he bringing out my birthday? Wow. All right. What the hell? And then you start talking about fight night. like oh okay never mind but yeah you had me in the first half not gonna lie okay who's gonna be in the building for that one this is gonna be full like lumberjack match like old school wwf mode where there's people like it's gonna be paros it's gonna be whoever whoever else it's gonna be a bit the box will be full well it's also which is always too on march 20s a real real short drive you can just take it's so funny cars over from the league office to elmont it's so funny what

when they do that, right? Like, I mean, we, we all had the day as kids where, you know, maybe there was a substitute teacher and everybody was being a little rowdy. And so, like, the vice principal had to come and sit in the back of the room with their arms crossed so that everybody would settle down. But I'm trying to imagine the scenario where some hockey player is like, man, I watched my teammate get taken out on a stretcher. I watched my teammate go to the hospital.

I watched all this. I am going to, oh, Gary Bettman's up there. Okay. I won't do any. Oh, gets laughs. Getslas in the building. Oh, no. Oh, no, he's giving me a bad look.

I don't know about that. I don't do it. The one guy is maybe Pronger. Pronger might do it. If Pronger just stands up and cracks his knuckles, I could see that settling. Yeah, he's the one guy. He's got a big presence. Like, Pronger walks in the room, you feel like he's in the room.

We called a game in St. Louis last year, and I guess he was doing some of the intermission work, and he walked into the media area upstairs, and you're like, holy, like, that's Pronger, right? He walks in and you notice, but you know what else you pay attention for? know it's a long way down the road, but the officiating, like, deployment for that night, if for some reason that was a night where it might have been a younger referee, like, there's a few young guys that are kind of getting started now and getting their feet wet. I think that's one of those ones where you go 1,500 games right across the board and say, like, you know, if there was someone else scheduled to do that game, then, sorry, we're going to

go with a veteran crew because who knows what could happen. I think you just have to, when stuff like that gets caught on camera and you can hear the audio of it and it's very evident, you have no choice really if you're the league because you're negligent if you don't take the appropriate precautions because you kind of got your warning shot right now that something could happen and it's in your hands to try and mitigate it. With Bertuzi, right? And Steve Moore, the lawsuits and all of this stuff. So it really is, it really does matter. By the way, that game in four months, March 26, is in New York. And that does tend to matter who's got the home ice. And, you know, so now you've got to worry about the fans too.

And what's that situation going to be like? My gut tells me four months from now, this is not going to feel like a thing. That four months from now, about a few days before the game, somebody will point it out and be like, hey, remember and we'll go, oh, yeah, that's right. That was a thing. and then nothing will end up happening. But the league is going to make sure that nothing happens by doing all the stuff that we've talked about because you had Patrick Wass saying what he said. And one other thing before, I know we got to go to break, but one quick one, like,

we kind of went through the Islanders and looked at their roster and said, well, who's going to be the guy? Like if this was something that were to happen, who would be the guy? I'm kind of happy the Islanders don't have, like they used to have Ross Johnston, right? Like Ross, the boss. I'm happy they don't have a guy like. that on their roster right now for that guy. Because if there was a single dude that you're like, that guy's a heavy, right? Like, pick your guys, whether it's Deloye or Johnston or Olivier.

Like, now that guy's got to live. Like, yeah, exactly. That guy has to live the next four months kind of wondering, like, do I have to take out rantan or something four months from now and like kind of deal with the stress and the anxiety that comes with that? It's not an easy job as it is. Knowing that on any given night, you have to take punches and fight, like guys lose a lot of sleep over that. Like, four months is different than four days. And that would be a long time for like that one guy to think about, man, what the hell does that night hold in store for me? There was actual hockey played in that game, by the way. The Islanders beat Dallas 3-2.

I wanted to mention Matthew Schaefer because I feel like we're on highlight watch for him every game at this point. He's aesthetically just such a fun guy to watch in addition to the substance and overall really solid play. He had one of the sicker, you know, almost goals you'll see from a rookie defenseman. I think that's fair to say. He went behind his back and threw his legs to kind of get outside and put a shot on Dallas. I mean, he's the best rookie in the league. He's been one of the 10 best defensemen insanely enough, if you look at, pretty much anything.

What, like, do you guys, Frankie, what's your, what's your takeaway on him after, you know, a quarter's worth of a, of the season? Because he's really, man, he's out, he's out kicking coverage and out shooting expectations. I feel like he's just so fun to watch. That's, it's crazy. It's amazing how fearless he is. Like that, that's the biggest thing. Like, young defensemen, you're not supposed to be able to do the types of things that he

does. You're almost just worried about surviving. at this point in the league, but the fact that he skates so incredibly well, and you almost get, you almost get mesmerized by his feet. Like if you're watching him, but also, I guess if you're playing against him, like the little subtleties and the way he moves around, it's, it's wild what he's able to do. And he just plays fearless, right? Like, not, not loose in the sense that it's, reckless or careless, but he's not necessarily afraid of what consequences are. if you turn over a puck or if you were to turn over a puck because he knows he can recover

and he can get back and a lot of times he's the first player back. It's pretty cool, man. Like, yeah, I agree with you. Not only is he the best rookie, he's been one of the best defensemen stories in the NHL and he's not even 20 years old. It's pretty remarkable what he's able to do. Like he's, I think with the last couple of years, we've kind of talked about how Kale McCar and Quinn Hughes are in like that category of their own and then everyone

else just kind of, you know, Werensky gets up there, Adam Fox gets up, like, take your pick of guys that kind of push up there. Like, this is probably a guy that's going to be in that top tier for a long time now. And the Islanders just have been starving for a high end elite player like this who's flashy in all the right ways. But yeah, it's remarkable. I said it to Chris Branch, who he does the Pulse newsletter, which I'm sure everyone watching this or listening to this subscribes to. It's it's great. The second best newsletter at the athletic. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. You're welcome. You're welcome. Contractually obligated to phrase it that way. But Branch asked yesterday specifically about some young guys, including one that we're going to talk about in segment two,

but he asked about Schaefer as well. And what I told Branch was like, I feel like we're starting to watch defensemen. And this is going to make us, all three of us feel ancient. We're starting to watch the generation of players that grew up watching Kail Makar. This is, I feel like this is part of what you get. You know, if you're Matthew Schaefer and you have that level of talent and you've been watching Kail Makar on mixtapes for the last six years. This feels like some kind of evolutionary step there where McCar is doing stuff that you can't teach and all that.

But now it feels like we're getting closer to maybe seeing guys that watch the kind of stuff that he does and incorporates it into their game. right? And I'm off base there. And Kyle McCar and Quinn Hughes were the guys who grew up watching Frankie Carado. So it all comes back. Hell yes. Hell yes.

I was just going to say like if I look back at my experience, I was watching Drew Doughty on YouTube. And I was watching like P.K. Suben on YouTube. And so, okay, those guys were in the league, what, 2009, 2010. I was drafted in 2011. So yeah, man. And we're not that far away from the 12, 13-year-olds who are playing now telling us, yeah, I used to watch Matthew Schaefer highlights. Like, we're not that far away from that either.

So you deal with that. I'm done when I hear that sound bite from somebody. I'm out. I got to take a breather after that one, too. We're old. Segment two, we're going to talk about some other young guys. I think you folks might have heard to. I'd say youngish forwards had big nights last night.

We're going to talk about that after the break. All right, we're back. Fellas, I feel like at some points we're going to get sick of talking about Macklin-Cellibrini and Connor Bedard and what have you. It's going to happen. It's just human nature. It's going to be March, maybe March 26th. And we're going to be tired of talking about how good these guys have been,

but I'm not there yet. Last night was another pretty big signpost for them. Both of them had hat tricks. It was the second day in NHL history. to feature multiple hatchets by players age 20 or younger. When was the first, by the way? Was that not said at Obey? No, I, well, I, I only know this because I saw it on Twitter and I swear.

And I put it in the rundown. Sean, if you ask me. I'm not going to do it. All right. I didn't do it. But it was like in 1940s, right? It was both, it was two players on the Leafs in, it was. What was the year?

Feb 19, 1944. is the last time this happened. So that's it, and that's even, not that it doesn't count, but that's like World War II times where the rosters were very thin because of that, so that's probably why you had two teenagers doing it for the same team.

But yeah, that's pretty amazing. Shout out to Jack Hamilton and Bud Poyle, who were the last two guys to do it. There you've been past. There's it. There you go. All right. Celebrini has 30 points now. He's the fourth team.

teenager in history to do that fourth. And I think you guys, you guys can guess the other three. Who are the other three teenagers? I have, I have a thing that I reference, which is called the stat spoiler, which is that anytime you get one of these in hockey, like only X guys have done it and you perk up. And then there's always one name that kind of ruins it where they're like, this guy, this guy, this guy. And then they mention it, like, Miroslav Freacher did it.

And you're like, what? There's no stat spoiler on this. I'm a stat spoiler. I'm literally that guy, I think. Like, you know, like make NHL debut at 20 years old. Who was the, and it's like, oh, Kevin BX. You were. Yeah, that's right.

That guy. And you're like, this bum that no one's ever heard of. I'm a stat spoiler guy. So who is it? It's got to be Crosby, Ovechkin. Come on. I know. I know.

Crosby Ovechkin. No. Crosby, Gretzky, Lemieux. And that's it. Which is. That is all. absolutely wild. That's crazy.

That's stunning. They crossed me and Lemuel once. Gretzky did it twice. By the way, just to show you what like intellectual level I'm working at today, I saw that. I was like, wow,

it's crazy. Gretzky only did it twice. And then it took about five seconds before my other brain cell kicked in. It was like, you idiot. Like what? Was he playing when he was 14? Like how many times is he supposed to?

How many times can you possibly? Does the Indianapolis stuff count? I don't think so. It wouldn't know. It's an NHS. record. So it's, it's, but I mean, this is, this is crazy stuff because this is 20 games, right? This is not, you know, not, one game, okay, that's, that's impressive on it's in its own right, but, you know, we've seen guys have weird one game blips like the Sam Gagne, uh, effect

kicks in sometimes. That's what stops this from, that's what stops us from being a fake stat. You know, we talk 20 games. I feel like we've talked, yeah, it's a long, 30 points and it's not, and, and that's, those are nice round numbers. too. This isn't like, you know, here's the guys in 17 games have had four block shots and this and that and they, you know, they list nine things and it's like, okay, this is a real stat. And this is really impressive, especially when you look at the names that are not on that list. Frankie said, Ovechkin, right? There's no McDavid where there's no, you know, McKinnon Matthews go down the list of guys you think of as great players. This is the real deal. And this is, this, this, this, this. That's good company. I'm just going to go on the record and say, when you're on a Mount Rushmore with Gretzky, Mario, and, Sid, yeah, pretty, pretty good.

It's crazy, too, because, yes, they're having a lot of success. These guys are both playing over 20 minutes a night. Like, it's not like, it's not like they're just riding heaters either. It's not like, ah, it's just like a little bit of a short sample size. Like, no, Connor Bedard has arrived, man. Like Macklin Sellebrini was unbelievable last year too, but there's always, it feels like, not always, but it feels like there's that sophomore slump. There's a reason why people have coined that term over the years. That is not the case for him.

And both these guys with the amount that they're playing on teams that, you know, coming into the season, we're not supposed to be good teams. Now, Chicago is exceeding all expectations. San Jose is definitely playing better than a lot of us thought. like who would have thought they would be above 500 at this point in the season with both of those rosters. It's remarkable. And now you look at the leaders in scoring in the NHL. And if you're Canadian, you're pretty happy seeing the names that are there.

McKinnon, Celebrini, McDavid, Bedard, Shifley. Top five, Canadian. You're like, I'll take that. Like the next wave of Canadian superstars have arrived and they're taking the jump. And I'll just pose the question to you guys. Like if both these guys don't make the team. So let's just say one of them makes the team for Team Canada at the Olympics. Did the other one even have a shot?

Like if Celebrini makes the team and Badard doesn't make it, you can honestly say, well, he just had no shot anyways. Because there's literally nothing he could have done to put himself on that team, given the start to the season that he's had. 13 goals, 29 points, playing 20 minutes a night, team successful. What am I missing there? If they're not both on the team, it's because the 200 hockey men putting this team together were not going to bring two young forwards. And that's the end of it. And they were competing with each other for the one spot that was even available,

no matter how well they did. You're exactly right. But I think at this point, I think we're getting pretty close to, you know what, these two are in and you just got to figure it out because at some point we know how these tournaments go you're going to be locked in a game and maybe it's not against team USA might be finland it might be Latvia who knows who you're playing and and what goal it gets hot but you're going to be one goal away and you're going to be looking down the bench going do we need the checking line do we need the grinders or should we maybe have brought the most dynamic offensive players in the

league that are sitting at home because they were too young and maybe they might make a mistake at some point. We'll see. And John Cooper gets a big say in this. What's his comfort level with playing guys like this? But I think the best way to do this, maybe the only way to do it in terms of getting both guys on is they have to just kick down the door and leave no doubt. And they're doing it right now.

Don't you think they've done it? They've done it. There's no way they have it. I'm interested to see what happens with Shifley. I feel like he's the bubble guy who could maybe push off Badard. Because, Frank, you went through that list. It was the top five four young guys slash superstars. And the number five was who.

It's Mark Shifley. I'm wondering if he's going to be the guy who's on the bubble or at least was, you know, at least was recently. And you saw him last night. Yeah. I was doing that game. I was doing the Jets Blue Jackets intermissions last night. And listen, like Mark, Mark, Shifley's had a great season.

I think there's last year, it really felt like he took the 200-foot game to another level, by his standards anyways, like really seriously. And his line has been very consistent. Like, he's a big reason why that line kind of drives forward. I kind of look at this roster, though, Sean, and I'm like, give me someone who's the best at what they do, right? So, like, right now, Connor Bedard is one of the best at scoring goals. And I can't help but wonder, like, if you are thinking Connor McDavid is the best playmaker,

do I want to put the best playmaker with the best goal scorer who's got the best release of his shot, left-handed shot, shouldn't all those goals he's scoring, all those goals he's scoring from the slot, specifically, that one last night, like, that puts him. on. It should put some on my, like I, last night, I feel like was a tipping point for me personally. Yeah, doesn't it start to percolate in your head a little bit? You're like, best playmaker, left-handed shot, best shot release, right-handed shot. And I can have them working in unison together and I'm going to pass on it for what? Why would I, why would I do that? I don't know. I would be so curious to see how that looks. But we know how these decisions get made, right? Like,

I mean, you look at Team USA, leaving. taking Tage Thompson at home for four nations, scratching Kyle Connor in a gold medal game so that Brock Nelson can take a ship because he's the grizzled guy who knows how to play the right way. Different country, obviously, but the same sort of thought process. I would just put it this way. Like, Sean, you're sitting down there in the States with your Team USA, you know, your flag and your pennant, New Jersey and all that way.

You watch the games. Who are, who do you not want to see? when that lineup comes out. Who are you sitting there going, you know, boy, I'm, I'm really worried. Are you worried about Macklin Celebrini and Connor Bedard? Or are you sitting there going, I'm really worried about Sam Bennett anchoring that, you know, third or fourth line, right? It's Bedard that you're scared of.

It's Celebrini that you're scared of. And there's something to be said with taking the guys. You would hope. You would hope, but honestly, like, it's one bad turnover that we all just jump on and talk. about for a couple of days can knock them right down the list. And it's, uh, and look, it is team candid. It's tough. There's a lot of guys making strong cases to be on that team. But I think you just, you've got to take those two guys. And that's even before you think ahead to down the line and go, let's get these guys some experience because four years from now, there's not going to be a debate.

Four years from now, it's going to be, these guys are going to be the, the key players on that team. So let's get them the experience now. Let's get them in there. And you don't have to necessarily play them on the first line. You don't have to play them 20 minutes a night. In fact, you don't even have to play them at all because it is the expanded roster. There's some extra forwards and room that you've got. But get them there.

Let them have the experience so that four years from now, when it's their team, they're ready to go. I've spent the last week checking in with some folks, some some hockey men to write the obligatory you know what are we watching from Bedard and Celibrini and Leo Carlson to to some extent

I would be shocked if Celebrini wasn't on the roster because I think what he's done not just this year but this past season I think he already has the rep of being a 200 like pick your

cliche pick your you pick your, you know, your descriptor, 200-foot player, incredibly high compete, like next level competitive, you know, competitive ability that's going to allow him, if they need to, to play him farther down the lineup. I think that's what's going to win out with Celebrini,

is that he has that body of work, and he certainly has that reputation, you know, among people with the mindset that you see from the team Canada brass, that they're going to be able to say, you know, he can plan a third line or he can plan a fourth line or he can plan a second line like just we can do what we want with it with his kid i think there was some degree and granted this is before last night but there was some there is still some degree of trepidation with badard where it's like if he's not in the top six like what do you do with him and i think do i think that's right i don't i think

you keep him at minimum you keep him as a spare and you play him in a couple games and you can say like you know, we have Connor Bedard to play on the second line if we want. But I think where we're at now, based on some conversations I've had, I think Salabrini, I would be truly, truly shocked if he wasn't on the roster. Badard maybe still has some work to do, but it's not going to take much. Like you guys said, you know, there's going to be these moments from now until the selection until selection day where we're going to see, where you're going to see stuff. And you're like, what else is there?

What more do we have to see? Like, I'm sold. And I think those moments are happening, especially with Bedard in quick succession. I also wonder if you're selecting team Canada, you got to look at this two ways, right? We talked about the goaltending position and maybe the uncertainty around who would be the other goalies

behind Bennington. We know Bennington's going to be there. And hopefully, like, I'm probably more confident than others that he'll find his game once we get closer to it. But let's just say that Canada's got a question mark as far as what they're getting in net when they get to that tournament. Does Canada look at it and say, okay, do we need to just really button this thing up defensively and go with more of like a defensive roster because we want to help out, you know, the goaltending position as much as possible? Or do they look at it and say the goals could go in, we need to be able to score. in a game, which, okay, that seems extreme.

But like, that's the way you're looking at it. We could win a shootout type game if we had to be, and that leads us to bringing a little more firepower. I'd be curious to hear how they handle that conversation. Because if you really dumb it down, like, if you really want to dumb down your team, then I believe you run the risk of what Team Canada has done at the World Juniors the past couple of years. Way too into role definition, which is fine to have role.

definition. Don't get me wrong, but a little too much into it and you leave too much firepower at home and on the table. And then when you need one, you're screwed. And that's the end of your tournament. And it doesn't take much for that to happen as we saw it. Like junior level is a little different than NHL level, of course. But that's what would concern me if they're looking at it saying, let's just bring the most lock it down team we could possibly have, but we forgot to bring the scoring as well. Yeah, that's that's the dreaded ghost roster approach, right? From way back in 98 that got Rob Zamner on the team instead of Mark Messier because they decided we need a checking winger who can kill penalties. Who's the best guy in the league? Oh, Rob Zamner's that guy?

All right, we bring him. And the difference and I think the evolution in that thinking has been the realization that, all right, you need a checking winger who can kill penalties. Guess what? Mitch Martyr might have 100 points, but on this team, he could be that guy or somebody else can move down and be that guy because they're so skilled and they're so good. Now, can a 19-year-old or a 20-year-old do that? That's the question. And you're right, Frankie. Like, it's the big question. I just feel like we know what the answer is going to be from the sort of people who make these teams, which is going to be, let's lock it down. I don't think they're going to build a team that's designed to beat the United States five to four. I think they're going

to want to win two to one. I think they're going to look back at that 2010 or the 2014 team where nobody could get a sniff and it was just one nothing wins. And you know what? It was boring. Nobody remembers anything that happened in that tournament other than Canada won the gold medal and everybody was happy. They might be looking at it the same way going, you know what, we don't have to entertain anyone. We've got to just lock it down. And everybody will like that. And your crusty uncle will think that's the right way to play right up until there's

five minutes left in a gold medal game against the United States. And it's two to one for Team USA. And you're looking down the bench going, I don't think Anthony Sorrelli is a guy we want to be thrown out there. I was waiting for him to take some shrapnel. I knew Sorrelli's name was going to come up. Unfair. Frankie, where are you at the rest of the week?

week, bud. Oh, buddy. I got your team tomorrow. I got the Washington Capitals in Montreal. We got them coming to town. So we got a good look at them. What games were we watch tonight? We got Oilers caps. We got Flames savers. We can scratch that one off the list. Cains Wild with first line Wild Center, Danilla Yurov, as I read Michael Russo writing this morning. Bruins Ducks in the 10 p.m. slot. I'll watch that. I'll watch Ducks. I'll watch Ducke. any chance I get, man. They are entertaining regardless. And I'll watch the caps because I got to know what's going on for tomorrow's game.

Back-to-back jacks. Simple. 127 days until your birthday, by the way, Frankie. Oh. Producer Jeff has let us know. 127 days until Frankie Carado's birthday. Frankie, I'm not saying it's going to be a big party, but I don't think you're making it to the end of that. We love it.

Take it easy, bud. It's actually next week. All right, boys. See you later. All right, there goes Frankie. Just me and Macandau. My friend, we've learned things this week. Have we not?

I have. I learned two things this week, actually. What have we learned, Sean? Twice as much as I normally work. And the first one... I'm just going to tease this. I learned something this week about the NHL standings that I think, I honestly think I have discovered a new immutable law of the hockey.

universe. And it's important. And it's going to have a big effect, potentially on two teams. And you're going to see that probably on Friday from me. So that's the tease for what I'm That is a classic DGBTs. Now, the other thing that I'll talk about is I was watching some highlights of the Rangers and the Golden Knights last night. And what I learned is that Rangers captain J.T. Miller, who loves to yell at people and talk about effort and all that stuff, he's got to really sit down and have a heart to heart with Rangers player J.T. Miller about the lack of effort on one goal in particular where he just, you know, it's the old unplug controller meme.

Remember the old Vetchkin one that we all like just absolutely ripped them for for years and years and years way back when? That's been stuck in my brain for like 15 years now or however long it's been. Yes. Yeah, because it was so obvious. If you haven't seen it, J.T. Miller had one last night that was almost as bad. And this was on the, I think it was the second Golden Knights gold, like the two nothing goal in the second period. So this wasn't like, hey, it's seven to two and we're losing and there's no time left. So who cares?

Which would not be, you would not excuse that, but maybe in the context you might understand it. No, this is just J.T. Miller just kind of going, ah, you know what? I'll let somebody else handle this. And not a good look for anybody. Definitely not a good look for a captain. And definitely, definitely not a good look for a captain in a big market who loves to go in front of cameras and talk about how everyone else's effort isn't good enough. And everyone else isn't working hard enough. And boy, he might have to look in the mirror. And he'd probably prefer looking at the mirror to looking at that footage. when it comes out in the tape breakdown.

Can we get someone ask Elias Pedersen about that play today? Yeah, I wonder if he'd have anything that he might want to say. Something tells me he's got an opinion on it. I learned a wonderful bit of news from Peter Baugh a couple days ago. Everyone lost their mind over the Red Wings versus the Rangers a few days back on Sunday. It was a red jersey versus a blue jersey.

That's something we've seen in just such short supply over the years. it was a thing to a degree that I didn't realize until Monday morning when I opened up my you know for you page and it was just people losing their marbles over it. Pete was on it and he got an NHL spokesperson to say basically that they're encouraging more teams to do this. That's a big that's a big bit of breaking news there because it's one of those things man I like I know you and I have talked about it at one time or another. There's no reason why this shouldn't happen. We love to see the color flood. And I know, you know, it's unfair to make assumptions about every single fan watching NHL hockey in 2025, but I think it's fair

to say that there aren't many that are doing it on black and white televisions. Probably not a ton. Not a ton. I feel like Lou Lamarillo and that's maybe. Lamarillo, he's got it, he's got the rabbit ears up, even though those don't even work anymore. So we can look forward to this, I think, is the big takeaway. Like, the league's encouraging it. It takes some amount of effort. Like, you got to get equipment managers and the broadcasters to sign off on it, which is all well and good.

Certainly not going to do it if you want to have whatever. The predators in yellow versus the penguins in yellow. Like, I don't know why you'd want that in the first place. But it does feel like it's one of those things that thankfully we're going to see more of. and people don't have to whenever it does happen they don't have to feel sad that it doesn't happen more frequently

so it's good news you know the most famous example of this in this era was the big house game between the leaves and the red wings where again you had the blue and the red and everybody loved it and to their credit the NHL saw that

they heard their fans and they said at some point in the next a dozen years or so. See in 15 years, everybody. We will get around to making this incredibly simple change. And yeah, that's, and yeah, it makes life a little tougher on the equipment managers, but that's okay because the equipment managers don't vote on this stuff. It's the GMs who decide everything.

So as long as it doesn't make a GM's life tougher, then it's going to be completely fine. But I look forward to hearing about why this is actually way more complicated than us fans realize and maybe it can't actually be done. Folks, if you ever see something cool happening in the league, just remember, you got to ask yourself, what does this mean for the general managers? How do the GMs feel about this? Because that's what matters more than...

Won't somebody think of the GMs. McIndoo, what's up? Okay, so you got your Friday post teased up. Yeah, that's it. And I've got a post that, is probably out now. I didn't even check, but I decided to rank every single time the Toronto Maple Leafs have ever traded away their own first round pick. And it turns out. We're there. We're at that point in the season already.

Well, it felt, yeah, it felt timely. And it ended up, as with many things like this that I tried to do, it ended up being a longer list that I thought. And probably a much longer list than my editors thought they were getting when I pitched them the idea. How's this how's this 7,500 words long? That's about right. Hey, they won last night. We made it through a whole show without talking about them in any kind of substance. Big fan of that.

Yeah, good for us. Just keep it up next week. Start the streak it too. That's one of our words that you're not allowed to say anymore on this. Leaves. Leaves. Thank you, buddy. And thank you, Frankie, wherever you are.

Thank you folks for listening to this athletic hockey show. Three of us are back next Wednesday. I'm back tomorrow with old Jesse Granger. Haley's also checking in from Vancouver. She's there for PWH stuff. That season's coming up. She's going to preview some of that. Also going to some other interesting stuff.

She's been working on. That's tomorrow. Until then, this is the Wednesday show. Finding off.