The Athletic Hockey Show - Discussing Rocky Wirtz's legacy, athletes you hated as a child, results of the animated theme bracket

Episode Date: July 31, 2023

Julian McKenzie is joined by friend of the Monday Show Mark Lazerus, and things kick off with a discussion of athletes they hated as a kid, that they later went on to interact with in a professional capacity. Then, Laz talks about Rocky Wirtz, both sides of his legacy's coin, and what could lie ahead for the Blackhawks. Then, a dive into the mailbag with a discussion about what "best contracts" mean, NHL players they would like to see on "Hot Ones", and the final results of the animated show theme song bracket.Questions/Comments? Email us: [e-mail] on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshowGo to grammarly.com/go to download and learn more about GrammarlyGO Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show. My name is Julian McKenzie, tapping in for Ian Mendez, who normally does the intro part of the Monday show, of the Athletic Hockey Show. He is with his family, relaxing,

enjoying the summer back in his native British Columbia, currently convincing Canucks fans why Mark Messier was the greatest captain in franchise history. I don't know why anyone would take on such an indebted. but only Ian Mendez can do that. So with Ian Mendez out, Mark Lazarus, a friend of the Monday show, Honorary Canadian,

taps in in his place. Mark, good to hear from you, buddy. Yeah, good to be here. You know, hatred of Mark Messier is not limited just to Vancouver. Like, when I was 13, 14 years old, I hated Mark Messier with like the fire of a thousand sons as an Islanders fan,

as a teenage Islanders fan, whose every friend was a Rangers fan because that's what most cities don't have. They don't have to go to school and fight for your fandom literally every single day. You had kids bragging about their team being on the back page of Newsday that day. That's how it mattered. And then Messier comes in and like the guarantee, they win the cup.

Like that all happened during like the last couple of weeks of school and it was finals week. And I had to like show my face in school the day after the Rangers won the Stanley Cup. Like the darkest day in the history of days. I remember the first time I actually met Mark Messier was at the NHL Awards a bunch of years ago. and you know, he does his hilarious Mark Messier Award for Mark Messier excellence picked by Mark Messier and only Mark Messier, like one of the most ridiculous awards there is. And like, even though I was like 35 years old at the time,

and like in the back of my head, I'm going, just, just kick them, just punch them. Just one time. Just one time. Just do it. Like, you know, the things you hate when you're 14, you always hate. I was a Knicks fan. I hate Michael Jordan. I work and live in Chicago.

It's like I walk past the Michael Jordan statue literally. time I go to work. And in my head, I'm flipping them off every single time. He ruined my childhood as a Knicks fan. Just ruined it. Those hatreds don't die. There's a lot of stuff we want to get to on today's show. Yes, sorry. I just went right into it. No, please, please. I love, this happens all the time on the show. We'll just as quickly just run down. There is a really great column you put out last week with regards to Rocky Words. We'll get to that. Some mailback questions and comments. We had the animated theme song, uh, Brack. which was tedious to put together, but we have a win from that. We'll get to that.

But I do want to focus on this thing you just brought up here because I believe every, every person who gets to the sports media, at some point they were a fan, at some point they, you know, saw some athlete that they hated. And if they're lucky enough, they have an opportunity to either encounter that person or, yeah, I pretty much encounter that person. Would you say that Mark Messier would be that person for you, like the athlete you hated the most that you ended up having to like see, end up having to meet or just kind of encounter in a professional setting. I have an answer for this.

It almost has to be. I'll tell you what. I did a story before the trade deadline this season about what it's like for like franchise icons to get traded to leave their team because of Kane and Taves. And I talked to, you know, Patrick Marlowe and I talked to, uh, um, who did I, Mike Madano. And I talked to Brian Leach, another guy that I absolutely hated. He was the single nicest man I've ever talked to.

He was so open. He cried. during our interview twice when talking about, like, leaving New York. He was so sweet. He was so bright. He was so charming that, like, I hung up and I texted my dad. I go, God damn it, I like Brian Leach now. Who's your guy?

Who did you hate when you were 14? There's no hatred, like a 14-year-old hatred. Oh, God. As a Montreal Canadiens fan growing up around my era, that was at the height of the Canadians Bruins rivalry. at least in the 2000s and the 2010s. And Milan Luchich was a guy I grew to hate. Could not stand him.

Seeing Dale Weiss get the better of him in a playoff series gave me immense joy. Blackhawks legend Dale Weiss. Yes, yes, of course. So of course, in my first year covering the Calgary Flames, seeing Milan Luchich in the locker room and like sitting with him one on one and looking at him just being like, I used to hate this man. but this dude was actually a pretty cool person to talk to. It's the worst.

What do you like him? It's the worst. You wanted to be a dick to you. So bad. You want him just to be that jerk. You know he is deep inside. Damn it. But like he was actually really cool and really nice.

And when I mentioned that like, yeah, I grew up like hated you. He laughed it off. So I mean, now he's back in Boston. Funny enough. Full circle moment for Bieland Luchich. But yeah, he would be my answer for that. If you guys want to send, well, I mean, then again, you know what? There's no way the fans listening would be able to send us this.

But I don't know. Maybe there's somebody, maybe there's an athlete that you grew up hating that maybe you had a chance encounter with. And you were like, hey, you know what? This person wasn't that bad. They were just a chill person. I'm blanking on the email that we get fans and readers to send. Hopefully, producer Danielle can help me out with that here. But send us your questions.

Send us your comments. Tweet at both of us. Mark Lassers is on. Sorry, we can't even use Twitter anymore. I'm still using Twitter. I will call it X over my dead body. Okay, so we're going to basically treat it the same way we treat like Skydome in Toronto. Like it's not Rogers Center or whatever.

It's Skydome. So we tweet at us, send us emails, your comments. We would like to know your stories. Yeah, let a talkie show at gmail.com. Yes, yes. It's Monday. It's the off season. I'm blanking on the email.

My bad guys. But we can get into some other topics as we continue the Monday edition on. I really enjoyed as best as you. can for these types of stories. Your column from last week, Mark, on Rocky Words. A longtime figure for Chicago. We know he brought them out of a dead period with regards to the franchise, but we all know with his handling of the Kyle Beach situation is what's going to

resonate for a ton of people. And I think you did a great job of discussing his legacy in your column, Rocky Wirt's legacy framed by Black Hawk's highest and lowest moments. He passed away last week at the age of 70. It is expected that his son, Danny Words, will succeed him as owner. That has not been out there confirmed yet, but there have been some rumblings about that. But I did want to spend a couple minutes just talking about your column and also talking about that particular new story, Mark. I just would like to know just to start.

What was your initial reaction when you heard Rocky Warts had passed away? I was shocked. I mean, you know, he's still a relatively young man at 70 years old and he had still been a around a lot. I mean, uh, you, you just, you, you never know with these things, but it wasn't like something that was like, we didn't know about an illness and extended illness or anything like that. It kind of came out of nowhere as these things unfortunately often do. Um, but it's huge. I mean, Rocky Words, look, look, as I as I wrote, there's he has, his legacy was was complicated by the last few years by the Kyle Beach situation, which, you know, the Jenner

and Block report cleared him of knowing about, but, you know, it's your franchise. It's your business, right? When something happens under your watch, the buck stops there, right? So There's something to that. Then there's the whole town hall, tirade, all that, which is a whole separate thing. But this was one of the most, this is a titan in Chicago sports, a titan in the NHL. I mean, Rocky Ward, since he took over the team from his father in 2007, uh, he put the Blackhawks back on the map. I mean, nobody gave a crap about the Blackhawks anymore.

They were in 2004, ESPN did a list of all the pro teams in all the pro sports. And, uh, by their, basically their basic levels of competence. And the Blackhawks were the worst professional. franchise in all of professional sports in North America, like 204th or whatever it was. Like it was bad. Like it was a joke of a franchise. The home games weren't on TV. There were 5,000 people in the stands. Things were starting to turn around a little bit because that was, you know, Rocky came in on Kane and Taves his rookie year. So there was some excitement building. But, you know, Rocky did all the things that his father, dollar bill

words wouldn't do. He poured money into the, I mean, he, he, he's a billionaire. His family is like the beverage kings of Chicago. They, a multi-billion dollar business. and he poured money into the team. He made the Blackhawks a destination franchise for free agents. People wanted to work here. People wanted to play here. And Rocky Words did all that by opening up the coffers. He was the ideal owner.

You know, he was, every, every team in Chicago was jealous of Rocky Words. Like, if you were a Cubs fan and you have to deal with the Ricketts, or you were a Bears fan, you have to deal with the McCaskies, you were jealous that Rocky Words, or if you're a socks fan or Bulls fan with Jerry Reinsdorf, like, these, These were, these are, let's just say, divisive owners at best. Everybody loved Rocky. Everybody. And he earned it.

Like, you know, he made this team great. And he just never stopped spending money, which is all you care about is an owner, right? Sign those checks. Put smart people in charge and then sign those checks. And he did that. The last few years made everything different. I mean, you can't, I know, I know a lot of people were mad at me for having, for writing that column mere hours after we, we learned about his death. But, you know, it's journalism.

There's no such thing as too soon. You know, our job is to tell the truth. And the truth about Rocky Words is he was a great hockey owner who had a huge, huge stain on his resume. And you can't just pretend that didn't happen. It's two things can be true. Yeah. It's kind of interesting that when I think of the Eugene Melnick passing from last year as an owner who obviously was at the forefront of the Ottawa senators, but very complicated legacy in his role in right, especially. It was very top of mind for me when I was reading the column and just processing the story because, yes, this person may have done good things, but I don't think it's wrong to write about how complicated a legacy for a person is when they kind of blend the line between good and bad.

And in this situation, and I understand it's one bad situation and a town hall when you really boil it down. but especially for people who are not in the market of Chicago, like I know for me as someone who is not as well versed on Chicago sports as you are, Mark, my thinking of Rocky Wirtz is the town hall where you are trying to ask him a question and you're going back and forth with him on the Kyle Beach situation and he's saying we're not going to talk about it. It's a big stain on that organization.

It's something that they have to deal with. It's something that they will have to deal with and try to move on from for a long time, essentially. We're not done discussing that situation. That's just it. People, people are always telling him yelling at Scott Powers and I to move on from Kyle Beach, but you don't just move on from that. That's going to, you know, Danny Words himself, when Scott and I talked to him and

president of business operations, Jamie Faulkner at the one year anniversary of the Jenner and Block report last October, uh, they, Danny Words himself said, the memory of what happened to Kyle Beach colors literally everything they do in the organization. Like, he, he, he is in their minds with every step they take. every hire they make, every decision they make, you know, they're doing it with Kyle Beach and that legacy in mind of how do we make sure something like that doesn't happen again. So it does continue to be an issue here. And Danny taking over, you know, that's going to continue to be the thing. And, you know, I wrote this in the column. I don't think people realize how the perception of Rocky Words and the Blackhawks in general changed around the league in the last couple of years because of this. When, you know, the day after the outburst, it was All-Star. weekend. I went straight from that night game against the Wild to Vegas for the All-Star game. After he said, we're not talking about Kyle Beach. You know, it's a basically, basically was saying,

I'm a billionaire and I paid this guy off and I would get to, everyone gets to shut up. And, and that's what that high rate was. I had three perspective. They were still looking for a GM because Stan Bowman, you know, I had three prospective GMs, like viable candidates, not like, you know, far flung like nobody's viable candidates reach out to me. And, you know, I'm not that, I'm not, I'm not, Mike Russo. These guys usually reach out to me about things like this. They came out to me and asked me, you know, they, they expressed to me that they had serious misgivings about applying for that job basically now, because they weren't sure they wanted to work under someone who could say things like that. So it changes the perception dramatically of the entire franchise. It does matter. It's

not just a one-off thing that we can all forget. It colors everything the Blackhawks are doing going forward, hopefully for the better, right? Like, you're going to learn something from this. It could have a positive legacy in the end. So it colors everything the Blackhawks are doing. And it colors the way people who are considering working for the Blackhawks think of these things too. Remember what Wayne Gretzky said that night on the TNT panel. He said, if I had a 17 year old kid right now, I'd be really thinking hard about whether I would want them to be drafted by this organization, because this is how they care about people. So it's, it's short-sighted and naive and foolish to say, let's just move on. Because the Blackhawks haven't moved on.

The hockey world hasn't moved on. And, you know, neither of us should. No, they shouldn't be moving on because if this is going to have any long-term positive effect, it's going to be because we remember it, not because we forget it. Absolutely. That's very well said. What have you made of how fans and readers have been processing, words is passing, and juggling with the fact that, you know, he played, not played a role,

but his reaction to the town hall and everything else we mentioned with regards to Cal Beach, is being processed, but at the same time, this is an organization that has seen three Stanley Cups, some of the best players in franchise history, and Jonathan Taze and Patrick Cain flourish in the Rocky Wirtz era. Again, just the fact you get able to watch them on TV and not go through the dated practices of Bill Works. Like, there is good in that era. It's the best time ever to be a Blackhawks fan. It was the golden age of Blackhawks hockey was Rocky Wards' ownership. And fans have been trying to, you know, remind people online. especially that these things happen.

Like this is something that people shouldn't forget about Rocky Words. What would have been your impressions of how people have been trying to juggle both of those things? I mean, most of what you read in, uh, you know, other outlets and most of what you see on online is people are, you know, they're mourning him. And he was like, he was a big figure in a lot of people's lives as a sports fan. And he did a lot of good things. And I think people have a tendency to focus on the positive, especially in the immediate

aftermath of a death. Nobody wants to dance on anyone's grave. And, you know, that's not what I was doing. I wasn't writing a eulogy. I was writing a legacy story. There's a difference there. But as a fan, you don't have to do that. You can just, you know, go, oh my God, this guy helped give me the best sports fan moments of my life.

Just like there's fans that are still grappling with whether they can look back at 2010 fondly. 2010 was probably the best time ever to be a Blackhawks fan. First Stanley Cup in 49 years, a young, exciting team. Everybody loved everybody on that team. Some fans have complicated feelings toward that team. And some fans just say, no, I can separate the two things. So I think you see a lot of that kind of cognitive dissonance where a lot of people are just mourning. I mean, it's, it's not the same as it was when Bill Words died.

When Bill Words died in 2007, they had like an opening night, like a moment of silence for him and people booed lustily. Bill Warts was despised in this city. He was the guy that ruined. Bill Wirtz is a monster huge figure in the history of hockey, like an important guy. Arthur and Bill Wirtz helped make the NHL. But in Chicago, he was reviled because of what he had. done because he was so cheap because the team, the games weren't on TV. He had basically destroyed hockey in this town. So, I mean, it was, it was, it was unseemly, but it was, it was

honest emotion from Blackhawks fans. When Bill Wirtz died, people were glad. It was kind of gross, but it's undeniable that people were clearly, Blackhawks fans were excited that maybe things could be different. That's not the case now. Nobody's like, hooray, Rocky Wards died. It's not to that degree, but there are people that are just lamenting the loss of a very important figure in Chicago sports and there are people that are trying to grapple with how do you process a legacy that's this complicated. If it comes out that Rocky's son Danny will in fact succeed him as owner, just based on how you've you've dealt with him in the past and what he's done in his role, what could Hawks fans expect if he becomes owner and succeeds? Let's let's let's succeed his father. Let's try to,

and it's a bit of hypothetical, maybe it's entirely possible by the time you hear this episode. It is announced. It is the case. But if it gets to that point, What can fans expect? Yeah, I mean, we all expect, you know, we've always expected it was going to be Danny. Although it's interesting when Bill died, everybody thought it was going to be Peter Worst that took over and then Rocky came out of nowhere and got it. So you never know with these things. But yeah, we're fully expecting. Danny Wertz has been with the team now since John McDonnell was fired in April of 2020.

And Danny Wirtz has basically been in charge since then. So now he's become entrenched in the hockey run side. So we're all expecting he'll be the owner. I guess the most important thing, if you're, Hawks fan is he's not going to turn off the money tap. He has seen that's, you got to spend money to make money in the NHL. He's not going to all of a sudden, you know, take games off a TV and, and start spending, you know, I mean, obviously the Hawks aren't a cap team right now, but that's by design. That's a strategic move, not a cheap move. So, um, that's not going to change. He's going

to continue what Rocky did in that regard. Uh, the exciting thing for, for if you're a Hawks fan with a conscience is Danny Word seems like a really good guy. I mean, I honestly mean that. He's a young guy. He's only 46 years old. He's very forward thinking. I mean, he's He's a billionaire business guy. I mean, let's not pretend he's like, you know, Mother Teresa here. He's still, he's from that world. He's from that world of succession, but he's not exactly, uh, Logan Roy either, you know. He cares about people.

He cares about making the Blackhawks a better organization. He's done a lot of things. He said, let me put it this way. He said, he and Jamie Faulkner have said all the right things when it comes to inclusion, when it comes to empowering players to speak up, when it comes to fostering a more, uh, welcoming environment. the hires they've made have underscored that Kyle Davidson, Luke Richardson. These are young, forward-thinking people too.

It takes years to actually affect a culture change. So we don't know what the long-term results are going to be at. But I think, and there's been missteps. The Pride night was a debacle, an absolute debacle. And Danny didn't speak that night. I requested him like half a dozen times and he didn't speak. Connor Murphy had to speak for the team that night. It's the same shit that happened when the Jenner & Block Report came out,

and Jeremy Colleton and Patrick Kane and, Jonathan Taves had to speak for the team. It should not have been that way. It should have been someone in management and ownership. And it wasn't. And that's a bad way of doing business. And I think the Hawks have to learn that. But I do,

but Danny Works was at the pride parade this year. I mean, Danny Works cares about these things. I really do believe his heart is in the right place. I think that as the owner of the Chicago Blackhawks, you hold a lot of power in the NHL if you choose to wield it. Rocky chose to wield it. Like you're like Jeremy Jacobs.

You're like at that level. You're an original six big market. big money owner. You can wield a lot of power. And if Danny Wirtz wants to put his foot down and really make a, make a stand for things, I think he can affect positive change. It's difficult to do in a glacial business like this, but I think he could be a force for good. I really do if he chooses to be. Who knows? He might go back. He might just be a dial back as owner and not be the CEO anymore. He might go back to the beverage business and just sign the checks, kind of like what Rocky was doing. But if he wants to be, he can be a really positive force for good in a very

old man sport. I mean, he's only 46. He's only three years older than I am. I feel like he could be a, he could do a lot of good in the NHL if he chooses to do that. Anything else you want to mention with regards to the Rocky Ward situation that I didn't ask you before we move on and we try to make the show a little bit more fun? Not having fun? Oh, of course, I'm It just, we know. We try to... You know what? I'm trying to handle this stuff. I want to say something nice about... I want to... I'll say something nice about Rocky Works here.

He was, you know, he was a businessman and he was a billionaire and just on principle, I'm not really a big fan of billionaires. It's kind of immoral to me, but... Are you one of those people who want to eat billionaires? Eat the rich, baby. There shouldn't be... There shouldn't be that much wealth disparity in the world is all I'm saying. Yeah, that's true. But he did a lot of good. I mean, I worked at the Chicago Sun Times and he was one of the people that basically saved the Sun Times by invent. investing in local journalism when we were on the verge of bankruptcy or folding.

He did a lot of philanthropic work. He did so much good. He built the community rinks in the city. Chicago hockey is better because of him. And the city of Chicago in a lot of ways is better because of him. All of that is true. And that can be true and you can still talk about the other things without it being disrespectful. We're all adults here and we can have these conversations. That's all I wanted to say. That is very well said. That is very well said. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss that. I know it's been a few days since the passing, and you've probably had to deal with, you know, feedback and blowback from people. My mom's reading all those comments still.

She still texts me all the comments. Oh, of course. Of course. But I do appreciate you taking the time to discuss the story. And no, we have been having fun. I always like to have fun with you on this show, Mark. It's just, you know, it's hard for me to make a joke about your age when we're discussing Rocky Words. You know how bad I wanted to be like, oh, you're not 50?

And I'm growing out my summer being. because I got to see how gray it is. And for the first time, it's, oh, man, it's starting to look pretty gray. I was all to say, it's a shame we're primarily an audio format here because people should see the beard on. People should not see my beard. They should not see the state of this room that I'm in right now that my daughters have basically destroyed this summer.

It's actually a lot better than it normally is. Let me angle the camera a little bit for you. Okay, for people who obviously are not able to see it. There's toys everywhere. There's arts and crafts stuff around. Yeah, this is my, my quote, unquote, office has become my daughter. is quote unquote art room and she's not big on quote unquote cleaning up. Well, I'm happy she's letting you share.

I had to tell her at like 930 day. I'm like, just so you know, I got a podcast say, make a spot for me, please. Take her questions. I had to basically give her a heads up. Of course. So we're going to move on to our mailbag here. What's really funny about these mailbags, normally you get these questions that come in. and they're normally directed to the main hosts of the show.

In this case, only one of the two main hosts of the Monday show is here. So you might hear a hey, Ian and Julian a lot throughout some of the things you want to bring him in the mailbag. They didn't have you in mind, Mark. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to them that they have to get my answers instead of Ian's. He sounds a lot nicer than I do. For those who get trapped. How much would you pay to have Ian Mendez's voice?

How much would I pay to have Ian Mendez's? I mean, you got a great voice, too. You got a great radio voice. But he's got like that, like, I always say, Malifli. It's just this, he's got like the best radio voice I think I've ever heard. I like my voice better than Ian's. I like my voice better than Ian's. I wouldn't pay.

I would, I would, what I would love to have from Ian is his, is the way that he's able to come up with ideas and run through shows that that ability to, oh, he's a hosted show. He's a segue master too. He is a segue master. Like, probably the best I've ever worked with, with regards to, to making that happen. I would love to have that part of his, I would love to have that ability. But in terms of his voice,

I could, you got a great radio voice too. I could put my voice up against anybody. I could put my voice up against anybody. Oh, and I know you didn't mean it that way. I'm confident enough of my vocal abilities. I could put my voice up against anybody.

So with respect to Ian Mendez, zero dollars. For those who get, 35 cents is still, it's not zero dollars. It's not, it's non-zero, exactly. He's profiting. For those who kept track of last week's episode, where Ian gave me some homework

to find an NHL player whose contract ends with the number six. Just because we were discussing Summer content, baby. Oh yeah, we're at that point. We were discussing... We're turning this into a down goes brown column.

Oh, my God. That's a free idea. That's a free idea for you, Down Goes Brown. We were discussing Ilya Samsonov's arbitration numbers and I had made this random guess of like 3.476 and Ian was just stupefied at the fact that a contract AAV could possibly end in six.

And he told me, hey, find me two players, two players whose salaries end with the number six. I believe Connor Hallibuck is one of them because his AAV and I'm trying to remember up the top of my head, 6.166. a lot. There's a lot of sixes with him. You know, I like the sixes because he's kind of got like, like, he's got the eyebrows. You kind of got us like a like a 1920s Satan actor to him. Like it looks like I who could play Satan in a movie, an old-time movie. I like that. William Neelander also counts. That's someone who's contract very much up there for him.

Zane from New Zealand tried to help us out. Hey, Ian and Julian for your Monday show. Sebastian Aho, the Keynes one, has a current contract. of 8.46 million for we I have a question here. I have a question here at technicality.

Are these like, are these like 666666667 kind of contracts where they really should be rounded up? No. That's the question here. The goal is to find a contract that ends in 666.

Because some of these have pennies involved too. Yes. That is fair. That is fair. We don't get the pennies on these contracts up from cat friendly and puck

Not everybody gets a nice round number which as a writer is just the worst. We have to say like, Duncan Keith and his $5.28575 million dollar cap it. I hate that so much. Damn it. We did get the full number for Sebastian Aho, $8,460,250.

So technically, I don't know if this one would count for what we're trying to do. Maybe it does. Maybe we can get a ruling. I don't know. All that to say, Ian. there are NHL players out there

whose AAVs do end in six. So take that. Let's go to another one. Doug, listening to Monday's pod and Ian and Julian were having a discussion about the best contracts in the NHL.

My biggest takeaway is that all of these contracts are labeled best and all are best from the perspective of the teams long term and lower AAV compared to players of similar caliber. If you're pro-management, these are great deals.

If you're pro player and hoping to get paid what they truly are worth, these contracts can be labeled as bad. Breed. Jack Hughes making $8 million per year when the cap will go up is great for owners, but bad for other young centers of his caliber or Jack himself when he starts earning out that money. I think it's a good conversation that you all were having,

but I think it's as valuable to acknowledge that these best contracts are best for the teams and not necessarily the players signing them. Mark, I would love to know your thoughts on this before I say my... Well, you just heard what I was thinking about billionaire, so you probably know which side I'm on this. No, that's fair. I'm pro worker, right? I'm pro player.

I mean, they're making ridiculous sums of money. Sure. Yes, it's hilarious. And, you know, I can understand how you look at that and say, oh, this guy's complaining about making $6 million instead of $7 million when I'm making X amount of dollars. I get all that. But the workers are the workers.

The owners are making hundreds of millions off of these guys, potentially. And, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats, right? You want all players to do better. You want rookies to make a little bit more. You want everyone, you know, these guys' careers might last three years, four years, five years tops, you've got to make your money while you can. Just because it's a huge number doesn't mean you should resent them for it.

And it's an interesting spot to be in as a fan because, yeah, you want your team to be successful. But in doing that, you're kind of hoping to screw the players that you're rooting for in some ways. That's a salary cat. We're like, if you're a baseball fan, you don't have to care about this stuff. Max Scherzer is going to get his 43 million and you can be happy that your team paid it. And you can be happy that he's getting it.

In a cat world, you have to balance your morals and business ethics, or however you want to put it, with your fandom. And if you're truly, if you're like a union household or you're just pro worker in general, or if you're anti-billionaire class in general, then you should be wanting these guys to get every damn penny they can out of these incredibly wealthy owners because hockey players are rich. Hockey owners are wealthy. Who you're rooting for there.

I always, whenever these lockout discussions come out, I'm always impressed at how the owners somehow look like the good guys or people just don't talk about them. Because it's like, these players are just haggling over money. I make X amount of dollars a year and you want more. What is this? While the billionaire owner just gets the chill and no one gives him a peep. You know what?

While you were having that great rant, by the way, I looked up the Chicago Blackhawks Cat Friendly page looking at all the salaries In terms of AAV, Seth Jones paid the most at 9.5 million He's making like a shade above what Alex Caruso is making for the Chicago Bulls I believe he is the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7th highest paid player

on Chicago? You better not say a bad word about Alice Caruso in this city You will be injured. Oh no, no, no, no. He is beloved here. I would never disrespect Alex Peruso. If you're a middle reliever who comes in to get one left-handed guy out in baseball, you're making $15 million a year. Seriously.

So Connor McDavid, he is underpaid. Nathan McKinnon is underpaid. These guys, 20 million. When you think about how much money these owners are making, by having these players, they're criminally underpaid. your value is whatever someone's willing to pay you, right? That's just how it works. Like there's no, there's no like Connor McDavid, like, you know, Domka comes out with his models and say, this guy's worth this much.

That's not how it works. You are worth whatever someone is willing to pay you. And if this weren't a salary cap world, if there's like any other job in the world where you get paid, whatever you can get, these, Connor McDavid would be making $20 million right now. You should be. Easily. Here's something I want to throw out at you.

And maybe this makes me sound like a definitely. advocate. How much of this is on the lack of marketing of players and on the players with themselves, not having a lot of personalities and making the game more marketable for people to consume and more people to enjoy and ultimately lead to more dollars and cents down the line? Sure. I think it has to be part of the discussion. Yeah. I mean, it is. I think we've reached a point where we have to accept the fact that hockey is never going to be as big as the other sports in the United States. It's just not.

It's not a part of American culture to the point where it's ingrained in us the way that football and basketball are now. It's too expensive. It's too, I hate to admit this, but this is America. It's too foreign. It's just,

it's not going to be the kind of sport that's going to command 50 million dollars salaries because it's not going to get the ratings and the TV deals that the NFL gets. Now, could it be better? Of course. And could players put a little more effort into doing it? Yeah.

And, you know, we, the NBA has figured it out. The NBA was not that much more popular than the NHL was in the 80s and 90s. It was they were kind of uncomfortable footing. NBA finals in the 80s were on tape delay on like CBS. Like this was not that big of sport. And then you started having the personalities coming.

You started having superstars. People wanted to see Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. They wanted to see Michael Jordan. They wanted to see Kobe Bryant. They want to see LeBron James and Steph Curry and all these guys. Like the NBA figured it out. But it's a lot easier to have. personality in a sport like the NBA where you're on the court all the time.

The camera's right in your face. You're not wearing a helmet. You're not, you know, you're just more in the public eye. So I don't know how much hockey players can really move the needle, but a little effort wouldn't hurt. Like at least try, right? I want to focus on one thing here. You said, I know you said you hate to say it.

Being too foreign. Like, is that because of the Canadianness of the sport? Like, I want to examine that a little bit more. Because I feel like, of all times for the league to really prop itself up and put itself in a position where more eyeballs and more people should be processing it. Like, shouldn't it be around now? One thing I keep seeing a lot is when people put together these hypothetical Team USA lineups for a best on best tournament that might never come. Who knows? I've never seen Team USA look so good.

Yeah. We're just coming off a postseason where Matthew Kachuk, a USA-born, depending superstar. This should be a player that... And when you had them on TNT during the NBA finals, like that stuff matters. That stuff absolutely matters. And it's better. Look, hockey's more popular now than it probably was five, ten years ago in America.

Salary cap goes up. You know, even, you know, it's flattened right now, and that's a part of the conversation here, obviously. But, you know, it's more popular. It's incremental. It's not going to make... I just have a hard time, I'd love to see it, but I have a hard time seeing the NHL and make that exponentially

leap that the NBA did in the last 25 years. Like, I don't know who Michael Jordan would be. Will it be Connor Bedard? It's not going to be Connor McDavid. Connor McDavid is the single most exciting athlete I've ever seen in any sport. Like, he should already be that guy. Maybe it's because he's out west. Maybe it's because he's in another country.

It's maybe if you were a New York Ranger or a Boston Bruin or something, it'd be different. Maybe even if Toronto Maple Leaf, maybe it would be different. I don't know. But I just feel like if Connor McDavid didn't do it, it's really hard for me to see anybody having that Jordan effect. And that's what the NBA had was the Jordan effect. It all came back to Jordan, who I hate.

That's actually a good callback in the fact that you didn't know you hate Michael Jordan. That was well done. Thank you to Zane and also Doug for these ones. There's one other person who sent us something in our mailbag. But I will get to that when we discuss the results of the best animated theme song bracket, which I'll just get to that in a second. There's one question I want to ask. I'm going to add a question to the mailback here. I love doing this whenever I see an athlete do something really cool on some platform.

And my brain immediately thinks, huh, I wonder if what NHL player could do this. And I guess this is sort of an extension of the discussion that we're having. How familiar are you with the show Hot On YouTube? Look at us. I'm familiar with it. Good one. recently, Steph Curry was on the show Devouring Hot Wings. A couple weeks ago,

Harry Kane, the Tottenham Hotspur star on that show. That was actually a really good episode, by the way. Got to look at him in a completely different light off of that episode. I would love to know from your vantage point, Mark, which NHL? Well, maybe we know the answer already, but which NHL player would you like to see on Hot Ons, eating chicken wings,

taking them down one by one with hot sauce all the way to the very end. Which NHL player do you think would do a great job on that show? Ah, see, see, I think those are two different questions. Who do I want to see do it? No, that's fair. You're right. Like, I would, you pose this question just before we came on the air, and I was just thinking about it.

And I kind of came down to Jack Hughes, because I think what would be interesting is to get someone to come out of their shell. And that's the kind of show that, like, you can get someone to lower their guard because they're just, there's too focused on the fact that they're dying inside to put on their professional face. And, you know, I, I, I, I was around Jack Hughes a fair bit during the playoffs this year. And he really has a disdain for talking to the press. Like, he's not a fan. He doesn't want to do it. He's kind of a dick when he does it, which, hey, you're allowed to do that. I don't begrudge you that, but he really doesn't seem to like it. But I think there's a, I remember him at the combine.

I've seen him on the ice. And he dropped a few hints. I think there's a ton of personality in they're waiting to come out. I want to. I want a boring guy to go on to that show because I want an actual like it's easy to say put Connor McDavid out there and let's see if we can find a personality there and he's been better in recent years but he's still kind of dull but I think Jack Hughes he could be a star he's American

he's exciting to watch he's a little guy so there's like there's like he's not like this unattainable LeBron James you know perfect specimen of human being thing going on like you can relate to him better and I think there's a lot of personality there that he's just refusing to show us which is his right but I would like to see him with his guard down. I think he'd be funny.

I think he'd be talking shit. I think that I think there's a super, an absolute megastar waiting to be uncovered in Jack Hughes if he'll let it out and eating stupidly hot wings. I don't even like hot wings. Eating stupidly hot wings, I think is a path to that. So you're saying you don't like hot wings, you wouldn't survive hot ones?

I don't like food that's the only flavor is hot. Like, I don't mind spice. I like kick with my wings, but I want it to have a flavor. Mark. I don't want the flavor to just be hot. They're not that bad. I like you go to Buffalo Wild Wings or something. You know what's good is like their hot barbecue is good.

And I like the Chip, the Chipotle barbecue, the dry rub. That's the best one they got. Little kick to it, but it's got flavor. I want flavor. It exists. I've done the gauntlet and like there are soft. They have like, I forget what season we did. I'm sure for those who have seen it through the SDPN, you could find it.

But like the flavors we, myself and, uh, my friend Andrew Berkshire were trying out. They were good. They were pretty solid. Then you get to the bomb and that's just pure death. I'm with you on that. But hot sauce can be flavorful and hot. My answer for this question, by the way,

would be an affidicachuk. I think just off the momentum of what you would be a hilarious person to have on the show. I'm sure he would get asked the question about what fun thing did you do with Jason Tatum in high school. That'd be an easy one off the, that's an easy. That's like question one question too. for Sean Evans. It's an absolute layup.

Yeah, absolutely. Good Chuck would be fantastic, fantastic on this show. I just, I want to, I want to be surprised by somebody. And I think that Jack Hughes, I think there's a bubbling cauldron of personality waiting to be unearthed there.

That's fair. That's fair. The one thing I'll say about Jack Hughes, though, while I see where you're getting at with the fact that he could be this personality, I just don't think it's that interesting when you're just a guy who's just a jerk to media. I'm sorry.

I can't get behind that. I know, I know, and I usually don't, you know, I usually, I feel that too. But I just want him to loosen up. If he loosens up, maybe he will enjoy, you know, sparring with the press a little better. I don't know. I don't know, man. I'm optimistic. It's a summer of optimism.

Fine. We can ask better questions in our jobs. But like, if that's, if that's how we're basing personality in the H.L. So demanding. God, the league is so far to go. We have now reached the, uh, It's time for us to talk about the results of the best animated show theme song. It started from a random off-com.

I'm all that that I still call them cartoons, by the way. You could still call cartoons. You could do it in my. That's like people who call comic books graphic novels. Like, oh, it's a good comic book. That's all. Yeah, but like graphic novels, like it's very different from this regular cartoon. There's an obvious difference.

I mean, you know what? Forget it. Forget it. We took in submission. what's the best theme song for kit show ever made? We expanded it to, we made it animated because if we accounted for every single kid show, it would have to be like a 64 team bracket,

and there would be no way for us to get this done. And they'd all be from the Disney afternoon, and they'd all win. Pretty much. The final, it came down to fifth-seeded Pokemon versus number two-seeded duck tails, which was a favorite of Mark Lazarus. And winning 60%

of the vote. Pokemon. What? Defeating. What? Are you shitting me? Pokemon beat Ducktail, 60% of the vote. You, uh, I guess we know how, I guess we know the, that's good for advertisers that

our age group skew, our demographics skew that young. Holy crap. I guess so. I don't even know. I'm a 43 year old man who grew up watching nothing but cartoons and I don't have no idea what the Pokemon song sounds like. No idea. So like, sing it for it, Julian.

Oh, God. I don't know if you want to be able to. that. That's a terrible idea for all of us. We could just get Danielle to just throw in the thievesog get between us talking. That's a much better use of our time here. Pokemon came out basically

during my four years of college. That's when Pokemon was big. And when you're in college, you don't watch TV. You don't have time. You're doing other stuff. You're having fun. You're at the paper. You're doing stuff. I have no idea. I never watched a single second of Pokemon. I don't know what a Charizard is. I didn't

I didn't Pokemon go to the polls. I didn't do any of this stuff, man. Pokemon is just... Charreizard? I missed it completely. Pokemon is like a big blind spot black hole in my knowledge of pop culture is Pokemon. No idea. Oh, my God.

I didn't even see the Detective Pikachu thing. I didn't even see that. Oh, okay. I didn't watch Detective Pikachu in full. I think I just watched Cinemason's rail on it. But like, you just YouTube the theme song. It's an iconic... You're technically a millennial.

So like, you know, I'm the lost... I'm in those lost years between Gen X and Millennium. I was, I was 1980, which nobody claims us. I, basically you identify, I think, your generation by your music. And since all I listen to is like 90s alternative and grunge, I, I'm like a young Gen Xer instead of the oldest millennial. I never thought of it that way that you identify what error you from from the music. And I'm a big music guy. So does that mean that like if I was like more into emo and stuff like that?

Like I love the strokes is my second favorite band. So I mean, I've got some millennial stuff. But the overwhelming stuff I listed was like Pearl Jam and Garbage and Our Lady Peace and Green Day and the white, small white stripes would be more millennial. But like over. Like when I'm in the car, I'm listening to Sirius Lithium. I'm clearly Gen X at that point. I think for me as a millennial, like I think I started really tapping into my musical, my tastes around the time like Drake became a thing and Ada waits and heartbreak and then eventually Travis Scott later on. Yeah.

See, for me it was, you know, we're talking about like Tupac and Biggie. and Snoop, I mean, that's when rap was fun, that's Gen X. Rap is not as fun now, but I was still at a point with Rap was clearly the peak of rap funness. I'm sure about that? I think it's really anything in the last 20 years that can compare to California love.

Come on. Or regulate it. Come on. If we're going to get into all of that with that, I mean, anyway, back to the theme songs. Guys back to the theme song. Also, Drake sucks. Back to the theme song. of Pokemon winning out

over Ducktails which I have to admit I'm still mad that you had Arthur as the top seat Like what the hell I mean it's a pretty good Thiefso I mean all respect to Ziggy Marley

What are you doing man? What? Who watched Arthur? Stop what do you mean? Who watched Arthur? Many people watched Arthur You must be out of your mind Don't give me this mark.

Are you crazy? I've also never watched Arthur. Thank you, Chip. I don't get this. This is nuts. Look, the Disney afternoon, when I was a kid, you had, you had, PBS.

Listen to these theme songs, man. You had duck tails. You had Darkwing Duck. You had Chipendale Rescue Rangers. You had tailspin. Oh my God. These are like the greatest songs ever written. How about the gummy bears?

You want to get how old I am. The gummy bears bouncing here and there and everywhere. Now that's a freaking, that's the song just absolutely slaps. Come on, man. Every good cartoon theme song is from the 1980s. None of the songs you mention. None of the songs you mention are better than

SpongeBob, or not better than fairly odd parents, the Teen Titans theme song is better than that. Team Titans are also better at all those songs? My kids love Teen Titans. That one, that's barely even a song. Wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on. Teen Titans, Titans or Teen Titans Go is the one my kids watch? That's a very big difference because Teen Titans Go barely a show. Teen Titans Go is one of the OG version. Incredible. Teen Titans Go is one of the greatest shows ever made. That in Bluey are the only things my kids ever watch That I go out of my way to go and watch with them Because they're so good

What about the other shows that were in our bracket as well Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Absolutely another 80s one yes Batman the animated The animated show So here's here's here's my argument here In the 80s in particular And I guess there's some extent

Like SpongeBob I think kind of does this But in the 80s This was true with live action shows too Like perfect strangers and stuff like that your theme song told a story, especially in the cartoons, your theme song laid out the plot of the show. It was like a primer, like, here's what you need to know going into this show. It told the stories like Gilligan's Island level stuff, man,

where it would tell you everything you need to know about a show in the theme song. They were brilliant. Then it just became like, here's a cool, like the X-Men theme. It's just like a cool little, you know, piano, reginao keyboard riff. Yeah, it's cool, but it doesn't tell you anything. Tell me who the hell Chippendale are. Chit chichipandale Come on, man

But you need to But like for me It's less about like Okay, what's the gonna tell you It has to be catchy It has to be something that like you hear it It resonates with you And you're able to sing it back

Are you trying to tell me Duktales isn't catchy? It is catchy But like Woo come on man The woo is good But like I can't recite I mean

Teenage Me Ninja Turtles is catchy And another one that tells The entire story the entire plot of the formation of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Splinter and Shredder all there in like 30 glorious seconds. Someone wrote in and mentioned the Jetsons a little before both of our time. I watched the Jetsons as kid. It was always on.

Jetsons and Flintstones, they told you a story, man, of Flintstones. How is the Flintstones not on there? Shout out Dave. He is the person who sent us that point about the Jetsons. I'll just read his- Introduce you to all the characters, let you know what's going on. I might be showing my age here, but I'm going off the board here, calling it

audible, and in my opinion, the Jetsons is the best full stop. Thanks for reading this. It should be important to note. This bracket was based off of what people submitted to us on Twitter.

We just made a fun bracket out of that. I'm telling you, you need to, whoever runs the business side of the podcasting endeavor needs to package this poll and sell it to everybody because this is the youngest

radio audience in the history of audiences. I guess that's fair. That is money in the bank, man. Sell that shit. Thank you to everyone who voted and participated in driving Mark

Lazarus, Matt, I mean the poll that we put together on the best anime theme song. Yeah. Pokemon. Come on. Like, don't you want to be the very best? I'm flabbergasted. It's an iconic thieves song.

And you should take the time to listen to it. It's a great song, great show. I don't know, like, you ever played Pokemon Go? No. No. I never did. I was already in my late 30s when that shit happened. You remember that?

People were like walking around with the game on their phones, like literally trying to like get Pokemon like random alleys and stuff. I think that's how we got Donald Trump. No, that's not true. They didn't Pokemon go to the polls like Hillary told them. No, hey, hey, don't do that. That's two Pokemon go to the polls jokes I made in four minutes and you didn't laugh at either of them. Don't make, don't put Pokemon on this.

So you can't have Canadians on the show. Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. We should think about we should reconsider having Americans on this show. Maybe the show's too forward for that. It is what it is. And with that, you scare me. You get serious. Oh, no.

Oh, no, another. What are we going to do? I think we've caused enough damage on this Monday edition of the athletic hockey show. In absence of Ian Mendez, Mark Lazarus, thank you so much for hanging out with us and being mature as you are. I bring nothing but somber, serious discourse. Yes, clearly. Pokemon.

Can we please clip I'm going to listen to the second I get off of this Zoom, I am listening to the Pokemon song. Yes, please do that. And please send us your thoughts. Just tweet out your thoughts as you share. Once the show comes out, I'll quote you with my thoughts on this ridiculous travis sham mockery of a poll. Okay, well, you're going to have to get adjusted to the fact that Pokemon wins out of her ducktails here.

Thank you all so much for listening to the athletic hockey show. please follow us on your favorite podcast platform and leave a rating and review. We would really, really appreciate it. And right now, get a one-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. Corsi.