The Athletic Hockey Show - Do the Ottawa Senators have a podcast problem?

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

The latest episode of Brady and Matthew Tkachuk's podcast featured a visit from their father Keith. On that show, subtle shots about the toughness of the Sens, Brady's ice time and his free agency in two years were presented by Keith. Neither brother called their pop on those statements. Hailey and Sean debate if this latest distraction in the Senators universe could be detrimental to their already fragile playoff push. After missing out on the playoffs last season, the Bruins on the cusp of another 100 point year are the surprise of the Eastern Conference. Fluto Shinzawa joins to tell us how Don Sweeney's team re-tooled so quickly and we salute Macklin Celebrini and the San Jose Sharks who find them back in the playoff race with a week and a half remaining in the NHL season.Host: Hailey Salvian and Sean GentilleWith: Fluto ShinzawaExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the athletic hockey show. It is Haley Salvin and Sean Gentilly here with you, reunited on this fine Thursday. Today on the show, Floodot Shenzawa is going to join us from Florida to discuss the surprise of the Eastern Conference, the Boston Bruins and the masterful job that GM Don Sweeney has done retooling that roster. We're going to eat our words on that one. I think we had at least three podcasts where we said the Bruins.

we're going to be terrible this season, fifth in the east in points. They could jump out of the wild card into the Atlantic playoff. So we're going to talk to Fluto about all that. But first, let's bring in Sean say hello. What's up? Hello. It's like so weird every time you do that. Hello.

Like it just kills whatever energy and vibe that I tried to provide. Yeah, I know. That's me. That's me. Real energy killer, you know? I would say so. That's what I'm out here to do. Good evening.

Good morning. Hi. It's the morning. Okay, so there's one thing I wanted to bring up to start the show before we get into Fluto. And then later in the show, we're going to talk a bit about the Western Conference playoff race, specifically the wild card. Because it's pretty spicy. It's kind of fun. It's like just another segment where I'm going to have to eat crow, by the way. That's what the theme of today is.

Sweet. I've been wrong in the long term, in the medium term, and in the very recent past, I've been extremely incorrect about stuff. Cool. Yeah, well, we could bring up our like awards watch again, Domini. The day that you had the man flu, Domini had to sit there and do that alone. The man flu? You didn't have to answer for your crimes. What is the man flu? You had a cold, but you were really extra about it. That's not, I couldn't talk.

I lost my voice. Manflow. You could have, you just didn't try. A woman would never. Says the girl who's like never on the show anymore. Yeah. I wasn't at Frozen 4 last week, wasn't I? No, that was the week before then.

Was I not on the show last week? Continue. You weren't on the show either last week. That was prospect boys. Anyways, okay. So I'm getting this on the rails here. So here's some of the context of this discussion. I noticed a few clips last night of the Kachuk Brothers podcast going,

viral and wait for it. Well, I was standing in line alone to get into the Haley Williams concert. I went to a concert by myself last night. It's a big step. For the first time, I was so brave. And I just thought to myself, well, there's this very expensive ticket I could buy. It's a solo ticket. I'm not going to wait around to see if anyone can go and see if there's double tickets.

So I can either go to this concert by myself or I don't go and see Haley Williams, who has been my favorite ours with my favorite record of the year. So I went by myself. I would say your 30s have officially begun today. That's a sign of maturation. I've never even gone to the movies alone. So this was huge for me.

So anyways, I'm in line for like an hour. I'm 300 meters away from Massey Hall. That's how deep this line was. and I went way before doors open. I'm bored. I'm scrolling Twitter. All I can see is Sends fans blowing up about the latest clips, not just one clip, the latest clips from Matthew and Brady Kachuk's show. It really killed the time for me, genuinely.

Thank you Sends fans. Really keeping the news cycle alive with this podcast. But I wanted to ask you, Sean, so some context. one of the clips I saw going around was and their dad, Walt Cichuk, was on the show with them. This was before like another Cachuck bowl, Sends and Panthers were playing against each other. So they're all together. The Cichuk brothers are doing their little paid autograph signing. We're not getting into that.

We're not talking. I'm not talking about that. I've chosen to ignore that that was the thing. So there's one clip I saw going around because we can't play it for everyone. you can go find it if you want. Walt said they're talking about the salary cap going up. It's this much now. It's going up again.

And Walt goes, Brady, how many years do you have left? Brady says two. And then Walt and Matthew do a couple like, nice timing. That's for another day. And then there's another clip going around of Walt talking about, you know, he says something like, oh, my God, this team. My pinky hurts. I had a bad sleep. I can't play today.

There's risk management. He said, oh, my God, it's disgusting. In reference to Senators' players not being in the lineup. Was my read on this situation. And Matthew's kind of trying to get it on the rails being like, okay, okay, let's move on. And Brady just kind of has his head down. It doesn't say anything. So these are the two clips that I saw going around that Sends fans have specifically locked in on.

And my question for you, Sean, just knowing that content, You've watched the clips again, everyone, like watch the show, watch their podcast or listen to their podcast if you want the full context. I know these are just social media clips and I'm just trying to read them to you guys. But Sean, like knowing what you've watched, do fans have like a reason to be this upset about what we've kind of seen there? Yes. Yes. I look, I the Ottawa Senator fan base, I think, understandably. is a little reactive when it comes to this sort of stuff. This is for good. This is for good reason.

I am not criticizing them for that. The amount of off-ice drama, weirdness, whatever, that has affected that team, not just this season, not just the last five, the last 10, there's a long list of stuff like this to take place and kind of color the situation in Ottawa going back a long, long way. the sends fan base is right to be reactive and or overreactive to this stuff. And we've come to expect that.

They're a little bit touchy about this stuff than the average, right? So I thought for a split second, when I started watching those clips, then maybe that's what this was. And it wasn't. That ain't what this is. If they're mad about this, if they're concerned about this, if they're scratching their heads and swearing to themselves about this, completely justified.

I don't know why this clip was released. It's fair to wonder in a lot of different directions. And if I were a Sends fan, given the way things have worked out, again, not just over the last 24 hours, but over the course this full season, I'm saying WTF when I watch this, completely valid response.

Yeah, my main thought when I watched both clips. And the one I saw first was him being like, oh, this team, my pinky hurts, da-da, da-da. And like, Brady's not joining in on it. But, like, we host a podcast. There's been times where, like,

I mispronounce a name or I say something where I'm just like, you know what? Hey, Jeff, producer Jeff are like, sweet king. Can you delete that? I don't think. I never do that. Can you delete that? I said this wrong.

That's a bad stat. Let's retake the shot. I live with my mistakes. I say I never asked Jeff to fix anything. Sean. It's that simple to just go to your producer during the show after the show. Hey, let's take that out. And as the captain of an NHL team that is going through another season filled with theatrics and drama.

and in a season where this podcast specifically has led to some of that in terms of like the clips going around and fans being upset and like clips going viral and like there's just been so much heat on Brady because of this show where I'm like number one why are you even doing this in season because like you're pissing off the fan base every single day whether it's right or wrong whether they're sensitive or not, like, why are you doing this? Like, it's literally just turning into like a PR nightmare on a weekly basis. And number two, why would you not just go to your producer and be like, hey, can we take that clip out of my dad ripping on the team I'm the captain of?

Let me say, quickly in response to that, the guy that we saw talking in those clips was not Brady Kachuk-Otuk-Otina Sector's captain. That was Brady Kachuk, Matthew Kachuk's little brother and Keith Kach's son. He was speaking- That's what I mean, though. Like, you don't have to say, hey, dad, knock it off. Take that cap off. Put your sense jersey back on and say, hey, can we maybe take that out of the show?

It's going to look bad. Nope. And now I'm getting heated because it's like that simple. If you're in little brother mode, maybe you don't say that. Text your producer. An hour later, you go home and you're like, maybe a little anxiety is like, like, coming in, you're like, maybe that's going to look bad. The flip side of that is maybe they didn't care.

Maybe nobody involved thought it was that big of a deal. And that is arguably a big, maybe it arguably a bigger problem. Like it's one thing if you're Brady and you get caught up in a discussion where your, your brother and your father are chopping wood and you're just like, okay, whatever. And you, and you screw up and don't tell the producer to delete it. That's one thing. If it's something else, if there's another degree of intentionality to it or whatever, that's where things start to get really messy. And the problem for Brady and the problem for the senators is that they've completely left that door open.

It is choose your own adventure to anybody who's listening to those clips, right? Like the full context of it makes it worse. It makes it more confusing. And people are right to be skeptical and wonder why that stuff got out because it was honestly bizarre to see. And like I said before, I fully expected to watch it and think that it was the Senator's fan base being overreactive. 10 seconds in, I was like, nope, not what this is. And whatever Fallout comes from this is completely, directly and unquestionably on the Kichucks. And it's on Brady.

And whatever the consequences are there, man, he's got to live with. Yeah. And like some of the context of what's been going on in Sendsland, too, like, Linus Allmark has been taking some serious heat for missing Saturday's game against the lightning. Travis Green head coach said he needed some rest. He's unavailable. Fans don't like that. You're a number one goal.

You're making this much money. You're back with the team. We're glad that you're feeling better, but like you got to play is the thought. Frankie Carrotto talked about this literally yesterday, right? He's taking some heat right now. Three days later, he's back in. He has his rest. Gets lit up by the Panthers.

It gets pulled, allowing five goals. first one eight seconds into the game, Sends lose six to three. So fans have been venting some frustration about Almark himself. So like maybe it's not that crazy for a podcast that talks about the Sends to have someone being like, this is ridiculous. But it just feels and means a little different when it's coming from like the dad of the captain. And Keith didn't say anyone by name specifically, but when he's being like, you know, and to be fair, I think he kind of made.

fun of Brady at one point because Brady was out for like six to eight weeks after thumb surgery. So like Keith kind of made fun of Brady too of just being like, oh, my pinky hurts. I'm out for six to eight weeks. Like Brady, that might have been making fun of Brady. But then it goes into like, I had a bad sleep. There's risk management. People used to play back to backs. Like it's disgusting.

Like that's where it's just like, you know what? Like maybe it's more okay for fans to like. And maybe that's me being unfair. Like now I'm wishy-washing on it of just like, is Keith Kachuk saying anything different than a lot of fans are? But I think it's the fact that it's the captain's dad going on a show and being like, this is disgusting. Like, it's just not a good look to have like the dad of the captain chirping the franchise and the captain just kind of sitting there. The issue is that Brady just sat there. He didn't like, like if you want to go all in and have the discussion and if you really want to go.

in almost like PR mode, PR brain, if you're Brady, you push back and you, and you get into an argument with your dad over it. And you say like, you know,

here's why you're wrong and whatever. That ain't what happened. Or you text your producer and say, pull that 10 seconds. There were a lot, there were a lot of different choices that Brady could have made

in the wake of all that and he made none of them. For sure. Yeah. And that's the problem. Yeah. It's just a little tough. I don't know what to make of it.

But it killed my hour wait in line. I just saw that and was like, poor Ian Mendez. Who? Seriously. Like, I feel like, I feel like every week I'm seeing something blow up on Twitter from that podcast. Yep. And it just makes me wonder, like, do we need this? Do we need to hear? We need it. We need it. Because we just got, we just got 15 good minutes of talking about it. I'm not, I'm not going to complain. I feel like I'm like, I don't even know what's going on anymore. What's happening?

We set it before men. People who want hockey players to show personality and put themselves out there, be careful what you wish for. If you're a sense fan who's upset about all this, you know, understandable. But it's a monkey's paw situation. You want those guys to show your personalities, show their personalities. Be prepared to not like what you see. And I think that's part of it.

Yeah. I just think it signals. Like the clips specifically of them being like two more years left. Ooh, good timing. That's rough. That's rough. The most charitable way to look at that is dad Keith being excited that Brady can get a bag in two years. And then there's that like, if you're a Sends fan, you're not going to, you're not going to look at it that way.

You're going to be like, oh, is he leaving us? Is our captain going on a podcast and joking about leaving? And again, like, whatever. Like, yeah, show personality. Have your show. Talk to your brother. Talk to your dad. But, like, these just feel like unforced errors by a captain of a franchise with a fan base that have gone through a lot of shit.

Mm-hmm. With their captains, with their team in general over years and years. Like, we have the Eric Carlson, you know, getting scratched for being late to practice. I think he was captain at the time. You have the Hoffman Carlson debacle. You have Ubergate. You have everything that happened with the owner. Now, this is, and the problem is, like, this was supposed to be, like, the new era.

Here's the young guys. We have a new owner, new GM, like, things are going to be going well and better in Ottawa. Arena is coming. And instead, you have a fan base that are just, like, doom scrolling and, like, spiraling over clips from this podcast every week. And I just think as someone who worked and lived in Ottawa, I just think that sucks that like this like media storm. It's like weekly of like here's the next horror for Sends fans courtesy of your captain's show. Like what are we doing here? Anyways. No. And also like. Sorry. He's sitting next to his brother. He's doing that doing the, hmm, two years. You know. Oh, interesting. They're having that conversation. He's, he's, or his, his, his father is, is floating that.

When, when one son forced his way out of, out of his previous team, you know, twisted their arm and, and kind of forced them to trade him to the Florida Panthers. I mean, to be fair, I think he was looking for a longer term deal before a son. that bridge, but whatever. Anyway, so you sign a bridge deal and say, I'm getting the hell out of Calgary. And now, yeah, it's, none of this is happening in a vacuum. Like, if this is just like a buddy, buddy show, like, with the brothers and dad, like, I don't know.

See, this is where I'm going to text producer Jeff, be like, did I overreact? Should I take that clip out? It's that simple. It's that simple. If you feel like, ooh, maybe I step. in it. You can just ask your producer to take it out. It ain't hard. Like I said, it's something I never do. It's something I never do. And I never will do. I have never said a word on this pod that I've asked Jeff to remove. Not once. Not one time. Yeah. But I have the option. Have I overreacted?

I have the option. Yeah. It's that simple. All right. Let's take a break before I say delete the entire segment because I've overreacted. All right, we're going to take a quick break when we come back. The Boston Bruins, they're still among the best teams in the conference. Our pal Fudo Shenzawa is going to help us figure out why, because I'm confused about it. That's coming up next. All right, this time last season, the Boston Bruins were out of the playoff race with a roster that underwent significant change at the trade deadline moving out.

Brad Marchon, Brandon Carlo, Charlie Coyle. Other moves came in the off season. They finished 28th in the league standings. It looked like the bottom was finally going to drop out in Boston. That has not been the case. And I'm surprised, Sean surprised. Maybe everyone is, maybe not Fluto, because, you know, he's there with him every day. He could have seen this coming.

Fluto's the smartest guy in Boston. The Boston Bruins right now are fifth in the Eastern Conference and Points. They're sitting comfortably first in the wild card with a masterfully retooled roster. To break it all down, we're going to bring in our Bruins writer, Fluto Shinsawa. We don't know how this is happening. So we brought in an expert. Pluto, what's up? How's it going?

We'll try to explain, Haley, but yeah, I'm right there with you. Okay. No, this was not. I would have put money on this being yet another season of trying to get back into the playoffs. You know, maybe they'd be knocking on the door. But to be this comfortable in the wild card spot, no, did not see it come. It makes me feel better then. Fluta, when did you have to like, what did you realize that this was actually happening, I think is my first question?

Because I'm not sure I'd really internalize and I was like, oh yeah, they are a lock to make the wild card until, you know, they hit 94 points. I'm sure it was earlier for you, but I'm wondering if there was like at some point during the season that, you know, where you were sold on them, on them, you know, ending up in the. the spot that they're in right now. No, it was even at the Olympic break, Sean, I'm thinking, and I had a very good conversation with John Healy, who's the CEO, C.O of ClearSight Analytics. So all the numbers are there. And it was, it was not even close in terms of expected gold share, all situations. They were underwater significantly. And they still are. They still So, yeah, if you look at the numbers, you're thinking, okay, this is going to hit the wall at some point. But if you look at the overall style of play, this team is always in the fight.

They don't give up. They are relentless. They are no fun to play in terms of being physical and fighting. And the goaltending had regressed back to where Jeremy was back to Jeremy. So you see it all, but you're still thinking, okay, this is, this is, this can't be sustainable. Because you look at the numbers, it's still, Jeremy Swayman has performed above expected significantly. If he's not in the Veson of finalists, then the GMs don't know what they're doing, frankly. And but then you look on the flip side, they've been scoring way above expected in all situations too.

So you look at both sides. let's face it. They are performing about, literally performing about expectation. But then if you look at the roster, boy, there aren't any wifts in terms of acquisitions, signings.

They don't have many draftics. That's been an issue here in Boston. But that's coming just because of what they did last year. James Hagen's, he's right around the corner. They still have Toronto's first. It's crazy in terms of how they've been able to manage both ends in terms of being a contender today and also retooling for tomorrow because that was pretty much job one because they had nothing in terms of futures. There's still work to do there. But you look at this on-the-fly rebuild that they've been able to execute is just a plus all around, A plus.

We can get into some of the trades throughout this. conversation too. And the Fraser-Minted one will continue to haunt Toronto and the Maple Leafs and their fans. But we can get into that in a few minutes. I wanted to start myself with Jeremy Swayman Fluto. You already mentioned him, but 20 goals saved above expected since the Olympics. Best in the league. He is a 9-22 save percentage.

Just how much has he been able to get this team where they are? He is absolutely number one. number one reason Haley in terms of where they are. I think you could expect the year that he had last year just because all the circumstances stacked against them. First, Linus, Allmark gets traded. They had a wonderful partnership, wonderful. And it worked out so well for both of them that they could just go one guy in, one guy out. A pure rotation, it was absolutely ideal for both goalies.

But it came to the time because Jeremy's contract was up. He's younger than Linus, so Linus had to go. So they trade him. And that's a big deal for Jeremy to lose that kind of partner and have to be the guy, which of course he wanted to be, but that's big. And then number two, he misses all of Kim because he's in a contract negotiation. After arbitration, which he didn't like, that did not go well for him the year before. So he's angry.

He doesn't sign until literally the day of their leaving to start the regular season down in Florida. So he's behind it. And it all, it just can never get on top of it. And then his team sucked. So like you put all these circumstances together. You can understand why Jeremy struggled the way he did last year. But then you look at it was absolutely critical that he. He went to world championships and helped USA win gold.

Even there, he wasn't guaranteed to be the number one. Joey Decord was pretty sure he started the tournament. And then Jeremy took over and then away they go. And that was such a big deal in terms of confidence for Jeremy just to reset and say, hey, I can play. So you knew that it was going to come back to his level because he's a top five goalie all day. But yeah, he's been I go through my mind

I can't think of any goals that he's let in that shouldn't have gone in he's been tremendous he's had to be tremendous because last I checked all situations ruins are second worst in terms of expected goals against this is not a good defensive team

so he's out to be he's taking goals off the scoreboard so yeah he's he's far and away number one reason why they are. So they have seven games left. They have a couple back-to-backs. But he started back-to-back Columbus,

and I can't remember. He did go two and two, so maybe they do that. But at this point, they're so comfortable in that second spot that maybe, like, okay, we'll pace him into the playoffs. But he's been tremendous,

tremendous. Fluto, I think the biggest issue for me with their roster going into the season, this is not a surprise, was the center depth chart. Like I looked at that in October and was like, you know, all due respect to the guys who were involved, you know, Lius Lindholm, Pavlzaka, you know, we've assumed Frazier Minton at that point. But you look at that and you say this isn't,

this isn't the center depth chart of a team that's going to have 94 points on April 2nd, let's say. So let's maybe look at it through that lens. What is change with them down the middle over the course? course of this season, at least relative to where we thought they would be, because they've gotten certainly good enough play, and obviously Minton has a ton to do with that. Yeah, good enough is a good way to tournament. This is not, it's still not ideal.

Because if you look at the roster, that's the one player, Elias Linholm, that you're thinking at that price tag, at that investment, that's a lot. And at five on five, he's been, he's been good on the power plate. He's, he's delivered on that, on that first unit. He's actually had to play second unit most recently. But five on five, yeah, it's not ideal. So you can see because he started the year as a number one center with Posternak. And they've moved him down recently to the third line.

He's playing with Morgan Geiki and Lupus Reichel. And he's been serviceable there. And he's gotten hot lately. But, yeah, Pavel Zaka, I think 28 goals, career high. He's been very, very important. The coach loves them. He actually started the year at left wing on number two, the second line, just because they thought Casey Middlestat would be the second line center.

Or at least they wanted to give him a try, Casey. Because when he arrived from Colorado last year, he wasn't good. And he didn't have a good camp either. So they're thinking, oh, this isn't going to work. Casey actually got healthy scratch for one game in October. And then they moved him to number two left wing. And this is a natural center. So they're playing Casey out of position on the left wing.

He's been very good. That whole line has been their best line. Little set left, Zaka Middle, Victor Arvison, who's been five on five, top five in the league in terms of points per 60 at number two right wing. But yes, Zaka has been critical. And Minton, he's, yeah, he started the year as your 3C. And now he's top line center with Poshanak. is he a first liner long term? Probably not.

But that could be, he's definitely number three for the rest of his career. Maybe, yeah, maybe there's enough touch, enough hands. The feet aren't high level, but he's only 21. Maybe he gets a little bit quicker, plays with a little bit more pace. That could be number two center. And then you still have the first round pick coming in. So yes, still work to do. Maybe Higgins, maybe he's your long-term center.

He's been playing left wing, mostly at Boston College and Improvance. But, yeah, you have to look at the Zaka fame as absolutely critical piece as to why they are where they are. Is there like an immediate short-term plan for Hagen's? Can we expect to see him at some point here? I think it's wait and see right now because they don't really need him. There was a point where because they were trying, Alex, Steve's first. They tried Mikey Ace a month. They weren't getting anything from that number three left wing with Linholm and Geeky. But Reichel, they give up a six-round pick. You do that

all day with Vancouver. He's come in. He's been good. Lots of speed, lots of skill. And he's just been able to hold his ground and give them some pop there on that third line. So there's no real need for them to accelerate the development process for James. And they like to start these guys in province. They always point to the McAvoy thing because he left similar situations. Sophomore year, he's at BU, he signs his ATO. The plan was for him, Charlie, I think it was 2017, to finish out the year in province, not even see NHO games.

It just so happened that guys started. dropping left and right on D. And they needed a defenseman to play in the playoffs against Ottawa that first run. He comes up, he takes off, see you later. But that's it. But the plan was for him to start his entry-level deal the following year. Maybe that'll be the deal. Maybe they give him a chance up top.

We'll see. I think it's just day by day. It's been ideal in terms of where the team is, where he is, there's no rush. So some of the players you mentioned Fluto just before we started talking about Hagen's. A lot of them have been acquired by the Bruins via trade in the last year. Victor Arvidsen, Casey Middlestad, Pavelzacca, Fraser Minton. And these are all deals that have aged very well for the Boston Bruins, not so well for the teams that were dealing with Don Sweeney.

Is there a deal that stands out to you the most? Like what was the biggest Don Sweeney Fleece when we look at what they gave up and the impact that player has made on this team this season? It's actually hard to make that call, Haley, just because there's a lot. I saw a lot of A pluses on the report card for Don Sweeney that you put together, right? Fleeceau. You go down the list. There's not a stinker. It's been like you could argue that for what they gave up, Justin Brazzell to Minutes.

who's now in Pittsburgh, was a pure rental for Minnesota. They got back Mara Hustanita of, who's been, at times he was their number one center, number one left wing. It's 23 years old, and he's making pretty much minimum wage, and he's got double digits and goals and assists. So that's one, A plus all around for that one, just because of, you give up literally Minnesota. has nothing left to speak for that player. Yeah, and Brazos is having a career year in Pittsburgh instead. Penguins and Kyle do this are like, thanks for that one. But then I guess the obvious one is Minton just because what did Carlo do for Toronto last year?

Not much, and this year is forget it. And then Minton is, he could be wearing a letter for Boston someday. Yeah. The coach loves them. Teammates, they give him a hard time just because he's a kid, but they all love him. He's growing his game. And then there's a matter of a,

what if, say, Toronto finishes six worst? And the Bruins get the number six pick in 2026. That could be a player that steps right in for the lineup that's year. It's incredible. And Carlo's going to walk. Would maybe help with that to, defensive group too. I know I know that's where that's where they're you know there's there's options there's options there at number six for sure. For sure. So yeah, that's that's that's

one. That's that's probably the obvious one. But then you look, um, they got back. Okay, Corpus solo, he's been, he's been okay as your number two goal. And, and yes, he's the, the pay for what he is. It's a little bit high. But they got back Mark Casillac from Ottawa. Um, And he's been terrific as the third line right wing. He fought Matthew Olivier the other night of all the guys. I don't know why anybody wants to fight that guy, but that was actually a critical fight. They're down two, nothing against Columbus. They stink in the first period.

That's a fight after Genoa fights Erica Granson. And that helps things turn around and they eventually win in the shootout four to three. But they got back Casleck. They got back Corpusalo. And they got back at 2024. strong pick, which they used on de Materno, this monster center at BC. Actually, didn't score his freshman year, but then scores 22 goals as a sophomore. Like, there's some Tage Thompson in there, and that's the Allmark trade.

And what's Allmark done for Ottawa? I don't think they're very happy with him. Nothing good. Up there. Yeah, that's tough. So that's, that's thie for the Bruins. So, yeah, it's. And then there's soccer.

There's Arvickson. I can't even think there's been so many. Yeah. It's so surprising because to me I was like, oh, well, it's got to be Victor Arvetson, right? And we didn't even really mention him because it's just like, yep, great trade. He's one of the best five-on-five players this season.

Like, good job. It only cost you a fifth rounder in 2027. But then you keep going down the list and you're like, yeah, you're right. like the Fraser Minton deal is aging like bagged milk. There's, oh my God, no. And there's other ones in there, Fluto, you mentioned the Middlestadt deal. I mean, I all credit to Casey Middlestadt for turning his career around this season because he was a tweener as related to positional stuff, really, for the last, for the last several years.

He's giving them great minutes there. But I think what makes that a great trade for Boston is kind of the other element. It's like you get a second round pick back in there too. So you have these instances where it's like it's quantity and its quality. When you're talking about the returns, it really is kind of overwhelming to see. But we wanted to ask about Marco Sturm and about the head coach and about his involvement in this. Because a lot of these players, even when we're talking about the trades, they're players that, you know, struggled elsewhere for a variety of reasons.

How much does Marco Sturm have to do with that? And is he getting enough pub in the Jack Adams race? Because I feel like his name doesn't come up quite as frequently as it should there. Well, on the second point, Sean, you can understand why. Balfel, Mindy Roth. Yeah. Everyone's like, well, who's playing for seconds? That's kind of what the discussion's been.

It's fair. Dan Mews, right? who thought who thought Pittsburgh was going to be so yes you can understand why Marco

is in the weeds there but can be on some ballots Middle Statt it's a great there's a great example with Casey

Middlestat okay we've thought all along I think he was number eighth pick overall and whenever his draft viewer is

2017 everybody thinks Casey thinks okay I'm an offensive guy I'm a skilled center I'm supposed to be

point per guy a half wall power play guy setting up line mates it doesn't work out in Buffalo he gets traded for Byron it doesn't work out in Colorado he comes to Boston last year

I think it was four goals and four game four goals four assists and 17 games like nothing nothing that moved the needle you're looking at this player well he's not he's not going to gain traction here in Boston and then he gets healthy scratched

he isn't great in camp he has to move left wing. But then Marco told the story the other day of how he approached Casey and said, look, you've had all this pressure and within, too, of being an offensive center your whole career. Maybe that's not what you are. Maybe you are not that player. And that's okay. I need you to be a good 200 foot left wing because here's the one thing that he really identified in Casey is his wall work.

It's exceptional. He's tops on the team in terms of picking pucks off the wall. And that's a skill that Casey has really worked on over the years with Adam Oates in terms of pure skill development. He's not Kuturov good, but he's pretty good at taking pucks off the wall. So that's a very important part of the job as you left wing.

So I think that really gave Casey some, he could take a breath in terms of, okay, I'm not that guy. Maybe I will be at some point, but for now, for this team and for this coach, I can be a number two left wing who plays 15 minutes, second power play doesn't have to be a point-per-game guy. Zaka is going to do all the heavy lifting defensively. Middle sat and Arvice scene can just can just play. And they've been good off the rush.

So that's a great kind of snapshot of what coaching can do. And overall, defensively, yes, they've struggled. They've been good off the rush, though. And Marco likes to clog things in the neutral zone. So that's one area that's been good. And they like to go on the attack. So, yeah, even if they lost the rest of their games here and they missed the playoffs, it's still a very good first step in terms of getting back to where they want to be,

organizationally. And that's been so much of Marco's influence. He's been direct, honest, good with his players. Yeah, it's been a terrific job by the country. coach, and yes, he deserves to be there. You understand why he's not there in terms of that level of recognition, but everybody here knows. He's in the also receiving votes category. He's on the ballot somewhere.

No question. Yeah. We'll see what the radio guys do. Well, we could get like a little look at Lindy Ruff versus Marco Sturman, the first round of the playoffs. If the playoffs started today, it'd be Sabres Bruins. So Fluto, last question, rapid fire for you. Can the Bruins win that playoff series? Sure, because I think the goaltending could be a difference maker.

If it's Buffalo, okay, you understand how Lion and Luchanan have been very good for them. But you look at track record, playoff, track record, pedigree, Jeremy has it. He was, this is two years ago now, I think, I can't remember that. But against Toronto, he was. was their best player against the Maple Leafs that year in the playoffs. And he was, it was still very good against Florida and the second round. So he's had such a history of past,

playoff performance, and this year that he can be a difference maker. I, I don't, I don't know that Buffalo has that. They are who they are, Alex and Ocopeca, for a reason.

They just, maybe they will be, but they don't have that kind of presence. So I'll say the goal technique can make a difference. I still think Buffalo is the better team overall. But if you just, you pinpoint, because Jeremy's going to start every game. And who knows what the deal would be in Buffalo. So I'll say that could be a difference maker for the Bruins.

Yes, they could win that series. All right. Bruins play the Panthers in Florida on Thursday. They're seven, two, and one in their last 10. They are locked into wildcard one, but they're only two points behind Montreal and the Atlantic. So maybe we don't actually get our Bruins' Sabres first round playup. But if you're a Sabres fan listening to this, maybe you're happy about that. You don't want to face Jeremy Swayman.

Thank you so much, Fluto, for this. We're going to take a break. We've got maybe a little Siegel bomb. I don't like that. There's some news from Jonas we can talk about. Seagel bomb. Thanks, Fluto. Okay, guys.

All right, we're back. I think I overreacted. There's no news bomb. No Seagull bomb? Seagull didn't, it didn't roll off the tongue. And maybe my Canadian accent came out a little bit. It sounded like I said, seagull and bum, which led to some confusion. No one thought you said bum.

I thought you said Seagull. That's why that was the only source of confusion. Did you But like anyways Did you think that there was a seagull in Yes because that No I thought there was a seagull A seagull in the panthers practice facility

Because I've seen birds in there before Like it is it is a lovely place But there's a lot going on out front sometimes So I seriously thought you spotted a seagull behind Fluto And just was like a bird in the middle of my outro I would do that I would do that if I saw a bird buzz our buddy fluto

Fluto. Fluto just sat there. Sat there very professionally being like can I get off this? Please please leave me

alone. Am I free to leave? If you're watching on YouTube, it's great stuff. I think I went red because I was giggling so hard and he just sat

there being like, are we done? Are we done here? But the Jonas news, he and Chris Johnson just dropped an exclusive. William Neelander wants to stick

with the Maple Leafs if they retool. Rather than rebuild. Yeah. So this was the news again. I fear I may be overreacted. This is interesting.

It isn't exclusive. This is from Jonas and this is William Nealander talking after practice on Wednesday. And I guess I should say some context. Like the future of just about everyone with the Toronto Maple Leafs is up in the air right now. Like Brad Tree Living gets let go. Keith Pelly has like a fascinatingly strange press conference earlier this week. And William Nielander to Jonas made it clear. He wants to stay in Toronto if they remain committed to chasing Stanley Cups and not tearing it all down.

The quote from Nielander, quote, unless it was a full rebuild and we were going to get rid of everybody, then that's a different story. Then you take that conversation then. But to just do a retool or whatever, I don't even know. But I mean, I still want to be here. Yeah. If it's a rebuild, guess what? If they commit to a rebuild, that means trading William Neelander. And he's saying that he wouldn't want to be around anyways.

So they would be in alignment there. That's kind of, I mean, I think it's important to get, it's good to get him on record by saying this. But, you know, I don't know what he's thinking. But when teams rebuild, they keep foundational pieces. I wouldn't want to be a part of a rebuild. It's like, well, right dude you would not be part of a rebuild you would be you would you would trade everyone in a rebuild I think I think you they don't have and he has a full no move clause so he does have a say in

that if it would if it would reach rebuild status then you would be talking about trading guys like William Nielander I mean in in awesome these guys are almost 30 right and then also by sure but I'm just saying he does have a full no move. And if he so decided to be like, nope, he could. He's clearly saying he would say, yeah, huh, but he would also have a say in where he goes with the full no move clause in his contract. But like, yeah, I think it's valuable to hear him say like,

yeah, it's a real. Clearly it was a rebuild. The Leafs would want to trade him for assets anyways, but I don't think Nylander would be like, no, I want to stick around. I love it here. but if they're actually going to retool and commit to competing like the Boston Bruins have been doing, then he'd stick around. Nielander could be the Pasternak as long as the retool around him happens in a productive manner or whatever.

I don't think he could be. You know what I'm saying. You know what I mean, okay? He ain't David Pasternak. I wasn't saying that. We were just talking to Fluto of the Bruins. And that's an example of a retool that's worked with some. foundational pieces in place.

I mean, I think my favorite line from that, honestly, is we got another Hall of Fame Keith Pelley quote, didn't we? I was unaware of this one. This was included in the story. You have him saying that a couple days ago that we have four generational players, Austin Matthews, William Nealander, Matthew Nyes, John Tavares. Like, oh, cool. four generational players.

Matthew Nyes, I agree. I agree. Generational guy. Maybe he'll score 30 goals one of these years, you know? Crazy. He's my favorite, my favorite character to enter Leafsland over the last couple years. A lot of fun.

First we get the treatise on AI, and now we're saying that William Nylander and Matthew Nyes are generational talents. The word means the phrase means nothing at this point. Are any of them generational talents? No.

We probably would have said Matthews was like three years ago, right? Yep. Ain't. It's like, is it fair to say he's no longer a generational talent because injuries messed him up? You never was. Then why were we saying that three years ago when he was the best goal score in the league? I just said, was he three years ago? And you said, yeah.

You just immediately contradicted yourself. Everybody, every season has someone who leads the league in goals. Yeah, but he was just leading the league in goals, Sean. He was like the best goal scorer in the NHL with like a shot that goals. I'm of the mindset that when you're not the best player of your generation, you can't be generational. Call me crazy. I think we throw that around too much too.

Yep. It's no knock on him and McDavid the same age. On all these incredible players, Austin Matthews may be leading the way. Like you can't have a generation of players that has nine generational players in it. You can't be a team. They were both,

Connor McDavid and Austin Matthews were both born in 1997. So which one was the generational talent? Yeah, you tell me. And if, like, generations don't have 10 generational talents. In teams that crash out and do what the Toronto may beliefs have done this year, don't have four of them. And I also would venture to just suggest that if they had four generational talents, they probably would have won more than one playoff round over the last

however many years. But that's, that's, you know, Keith Pelley's a really, he's a really smart guy. Maybe AI told him that, that the Maple Leafs have four generational talents. What are you talking about with the AI thing? You missed that one. What happened? Keith Pelley loves AI. It's been, I thought he was talking about data analytics. Just AI. Just generically. I'm not going to look into this. Don't.

Don't. So you listen to the Wednesday edition of the athletic hockey show. Was this Frankie or McIndoo? Who do you think? Who do you think brought up AI first? I really could go either way. It was me. Oh.

Anyways. Well, he did great stuff for the European tour. my dad says. Cool. In 2024, my dad was really jazzed about the Keith Pelly hiring because of the PGA European tour. Maybe he can hire Yesper Parnevik to be the to be the Maple Leafs president of hockey operations. What a joke. I don't know.

Is Leon Dreisdel a generational talent? Closer than Austin Matthews. And why haven't the oilers won anything if they have two of them? Stan Bowman. Peter Shirelli. Damn it. Foyled again. I was trying to defend my Toronto Maple Leafs.

If Keith Pellie were on... They're not mine. That was a joke if you're not watching the show. If Keith Pellie were running the Oilers, he would be saying that Zach Hyman is a generational talent. No. Ryan Nugent Hopkins. Darnel Nurse. Warren.

Warren Fogel, generational talent. It's a shan they let him go. He misspoke. He meant like we have elite talent, which is true. Like, like don't, I'm not letting him slide on that

because like you have, you do have all those pieces. They're not all generational talents, but you do have enough talent where like this season is inexcusable. That's huckster stuff. No, but like to be fair, I'm not trying to defend Keith Pelley.

Because the press conference was weird. Also, have you noticed that he like matches his glasses to the background that he's sitting in front of. Very cool. And then I actually appreciate that. I think it's fun. That wasn't sarcasm.

But like at the very least they made the right step in firing Bradtree Living because he did a bad job. Like there is no ifs ands or butts. Like the Leafs are worse off than when he started. Chad GPT told Keith Pelley to fire. Stop. I don't even know. Stop it. That's not true.

Stop saying that. Are you sure? We're going to get a cease and desist. We love AI. From the Winged podcast and MLSE. I don't even know what the Kachuk podcast is called. Is that what it's called? Me neither.

It's definitely not that. Winged? That seems like a Red Wings podcast. Mendez's Nightmare is what it's called. It's the name of it. I don't know the name of the show. It doesn't matter. It's irrelevant.

Anyways. So that's, the news from Jonas is that Nielander's open to staying if they're retooling. If they don't. If they don't re-trolled. I feel like I overreacted and then we

Yeah, I think maybe. Yeah. Possibly. I got Leaf's brain. I was like, whoa, breaking news. Get out of here, Fluto. I live in King West. Get your ass out of here. I don't care about the Bruins playing well.

We have some news here. down the street from my apartment that's very important for everyone to hear. Anyways, I wanted to talk about the Western Conference playoff race. Let's do it quickly. And now I feel bad

that we spend so much time talking about the Leafs. When you should have stopped talking about AI. Keith Pelly. That was your fault. You kept talking about it. I just think Keith Pelly is really cool and smart. You know, and I want to give him your Matthews generational

talent rampage and your AI rampage and it's actually your fault that we're not talking about the San Jose Sharks. You know who is a generation? Would you like to know who is a generational talent? Yeah. Maclin Celebrini. There is a generational talent and there's our transition back and talking about actual hockey. I was trying to do it and you kept cutting me off.

No. I was doing it in a like, oopsies. We've gone too long on this way. Yeah. Anyways. We can talk about it now. So generational talent, Macklin Celebrini, absolutely he is, four points to lead the sharks to a huge comeback win against the ducks last night.

Alex Weinberg with the game winning goal. Here's some fun for you, Sean. On Monday, you and Max were saluting the San Jose sharks. Salute to you, San Jose, you say, for a job well done. You say, you're not going to make the playoffs. Just keep losing. Get a high draft. You're done.

We love you. We love you. We support you. congrats on all your successes. Now start losing. They haven't yet. 77 points on the season, one point behind the Los Angeles Kings,

who also won last night to move into that second wildcard spot in the West. The sharks have a game in hand, though. What do you have to say for yourself? The sharks are in on points percentage in tiebreakers. Yeah, but points percentage isn't how you get in. So that's irrelevant. I'm just saying they're incredibly close. That's the points.

Yeah. There are two points back with a game in hand. I was not wrong when I said that. I was not wrong. They were on his stretch. I already said it, though. They'd lost six straight. They'd gotten one point out of 12.

I was not wrong. But since Max and I spoke, or since I really thought they were cooked, they've beaten Columbus and San Jose in the Ducks. Celebrating had nine points in those three games. Will Smith had seven. I, I, it's a. Look, the Western Conference is a mess and a mosh pit. And all it takes is a team winning three games in a row to really get themselves back in the race.

But I was foolish to discount that the sharks would do that, honestly. Like, it's in the fact that they beat the Ducks, who are the best team in the Pacific Division last night, is relevant. And that was a game that was fair to expect them to lose, but they didn't, right? So, um, I'm all in now. I think they might as well just see this to the end. Who cares if they end up with the ninth pick or the, or the 16? It doesn't matter. I think the world is a better place.

The NHL world is going to be a better place with McAnsellabrini in the postseason. So yeah, you guys are this close. We can shift once again out of amassing lottery odds mode and just like just get there and see what happens. Let's go. I just want to share that in our lineup doc, Sean specifically wrote they lost six straight games and got one point out of 12. I was not wrong. Do not put on the podcast that I was wrong. One point out of a possible 12 is wrong.

In my flushed out line up of here's everything we're going to do today, Sean just drops one sentence in, I was not wrong. They need better players. I will not, that's obvious. And the easiest way to do that is to, is the pick as high as possible. They need better players we see it night after night. Celebrini has a net rating of about 19.

which is 11th among forwards. Incredible, great job. Next up, Tyler To Foley with a five. That's not great. It's good. Tyler To Foley, useful NHL players still, should not be your second most productive player. The gap there, which is about 14,

between first and second place and net rating, is the biggest in the league. It's bigger than the one in Columbus, between Zach Werenski and number two there. And we're talking about Zach Werenki as like Nora's favorite, potential hard candidate. There is a chasm in terms of effectiveness between Macon Celebrating and the rest of that roster.

But at this point, who cares? Address that elsewhere, win a few more games, going to the playoffs on some kind of heater and see what happens against Colorado or whoever you get matched up against. I'm fully ready for it, and I was foolish to have written them off a few days ago. Is there something to be said about getting that playoff experience versus a high draft pick. Like, I think there's value in that, even if you go and get. I think when it's clear that it's, it's, they're, they're, they're, they're so close to it. And it is this possible. And they, and they, and they haven't like continued, you know, they have the

hardest part figured out. They, and they, you know, they pulled themselves out of that spiral there because they were legitimately playing poorly, but they aren't anymore. So you, so you got to figure at this point, is there a more value to be gained from a playoff run of, of, of any length, whether it's four games or seven games or or 20 games, is there more value in that versus picking, you know, 10th versus 16th? I'm at the point now where I would say so. And I'm not sure I was there a week ago. Actually, I know for a fact that I was not. I also think that like the Ottawa senators are a great example of just like finishing

poorly and not making the playoffs and getting high draft picks doesn't exactly lead to long-term organizational success either. Like Brady Kachuk just played in his first playoff series a year ago. right and that was a team that drafted high years and years and years in a row Michael Misa Michael Misa has a brother maybe in a couple years those two guys can have a podcast that completely kneecaps what they're what they're trying to do in San Jose who knows they're not kneecapping the sense the Mesa the Mesa brothers podcast that's a bit extra they're not kneecapping they're just giving Ian Mendes what I assume to be a headache on a weekly

basis. You used to do that. He left the athletic to say that. I was about to say that. Damn it. That was my punchline. Well, step on. He left the athletic because he couldn't handle me anymore.

Nope. That's fine. We all make choices. Mm-hmm. And now I'm your problem. Big night of games tonight. Big night. Yeah, big night.

14 games on the schedule. It's always busy on Thursdays. It's perfect for you and Dom and your power rankings. Penguins lightning is a fun one to circle for looking in the Eastern Conference playoff race. Yeah. The weird part for the Penguins is that this is no longer a must have game because they've gotten four points in their last two games against the teams that they're in direct competition with. So this is like, this is if you're Pittsburgh, this is a game that great. We'd love to beat Tampa, but it's not, it's not necessary.

Jet stars could have some implications as we discussed the Western Conference playoff race because it's not just San Jose that's gotten themselves back in it the Jets are coming alive here. If the Jets get two points against Dallas, man. They are two points behind the Kings. They have 76 points, one point behind the sharks. The Preds are still kind of in and around it,

even the Crackin, they're three points. That's probably not going to happen. For sure. The sharks have won three straight. The Jets have won two straight. They're six, two, and two in their last 10. So if the Jets can beat the stars, they're fully, fully back in it. The West Wildcard's spicy.

This is fun. That's probably my game of the night is Jets stars. And then in the east, you got Detroit, Philly. That feels both teams have 86 points. That's two points out of second place wild card. That feels almost like an elimination game there to me. Yeah. Pretty close to it.

That'll be fun. Yeah. All right. Good night in the NHL. Thanks, Sean. Thanks to Pluto. Thanks, everyone for listening to this episode of the athletic hockey show. What makes it into the show?

We'll find out. Nothing makes it in if we don't want it to be in. That's the lesson to learn. That's simple. Max and Laz have our next show on Monday. Sean and I return next week. Lina's Allmark starting for the Sense tonight, by the way. Good Sabres.

Quinn Hughes facing the Canucks for the first time in Minutes. Enjoy the games, everyone. Thank you.