The Athletic Hockey Show - Do the Wild have interest in Jordan Kyrou?

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

Hailey, Sean and their special guest Michael Russo comment on Shane Pinto's four-year, $30 million contract extension with the Ottawa Senators this morning and if he should be considered for Team USA at the Winter Olympics. They discuss the Canada-USA Women's Rivalry Series, which Mike covered with Hailey, specifically Abbey Murphy's gritty play and 2026 projected first overall pick Caroline Harvey's impact. Russo provides the 411 on the Minnesota Wild, who have gotten off to a slow start, and if they have interest in trading for Jordan Kyrou. Plus, Hailey, Sean and Mike pay tribute to colleague and Hockey Hall of Fame member Larry Brooks, who passed away at the age of 75 this morning. Hosts: Hailey Salvian and Sean GentilleWith: Michael RussoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What's up, everyone? It's Haley Salvean and Sean Jintilly here with you for another Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. We've got our friend Mike Russo joining us today to discuss his stint as a women's hockey intern and the Minnesota Wild, of course. Also a little bit of Ottawa Senators news. We can go over this Thursday morning. But before all that, I want to remind everyone that we are on YouTube now. make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel.

It's YouTube.com slash at the Athletic Hockey Show. You can check out our Discord too. But if you want to be able to watch the show, as well as listen, you can watch and see Sean and I staring at nothing. Sean, are you following the YouTube channel? Got to make sure that you're on top of that too. Yeah, I'm a big YouTube guy. Really like Mr. Beast.

Ew. I think he's really. He's a really, he's a really, like watching videos about Disney parks. No, more of just a Mr. Bees. I like Mr. Beast's content. I like his personality. Seems like a really cool and normal dude. Sure, sure.

I was chatting with Christina Kelton Cova, the first overall pick in the PWHL. Oh, my God, pick up that name. Pick up that you just dropped, please. Thank you. Did I mess? everyone just calls her culty. For obvious reasons, it's much easier. I wouldn't say that. That feels unprofessional, but sure.

And I was talking to her, and she just, like, loves watching YouTube videos, but it's things of, like, how the Brooklyn Bridge was made. That is. The history of bridges. I'm like, oh, cool. That is 39-year-old Mancore content from Danielle Kelton-Cova. I appreciate it. Is that, I'm sorry? You said Danielle.

Oh my gosh. Well, apologies. Kelty is, anyways. Just say Colty. Kelty and I have similar taste. Yeah, exactly. The history of the Brooklyn Bridge.

Super fun. All right, before we bring in Russo, a little bit of Sends news, as we mentioned off the top. Shane Pinto signed a four-year $30 million contract extension with the SENS this morning.

He was scheduled to hit restricted free agency after this season instead he locks in 17 games into it like a nice season for him so far, eight goals, 14 points. He was like a big prospect when I still covered the Ottawa senators. You know, great. In the defensive face-off dot, like good 200-foot player obviously has struggled with some injuries over the years, but he's healthy and has a good start here.

And he locks in with Ottawa. Sean, what do you think about this contract extension? I don't think Shane Pinto should be on the American national team. I'll say that straight away. I think they have largely better options. I don't think they can be particularly cute about the roster makeup here. We'll certainly talk to Russo about that. That being said, I think that Shane Pinto should be on some sort of short list for that group.

I think you should get consideration. And I think part of that, Haley, like you said, is that he's a really well-rounded. This is a guy who's top 10 in defense ever. rating in centers so far this season. He was six last I looked and that was three games ago. So we're talking about a guy who fills a role with the Ottawa. He slots in in a meaningful, reasonable place in their lineup, certainly as they've done a better job of getting a little bit closer to contender status. I think I think a spot makes a lot more sense. But if the U.S. Olympic team wanted to find somebody who's similar to Anthony Sorrell.

the kind of stuff that he brings to the Canadian roster conversation. I think they could do a lot worse than look at Shane Pinto. That's a really complete player. He's playing tough defensive minutes. He's succeeding in them. And we've certainly seen, like you said, he's got eight goals so far this season. He's got some offensive pop too. So that's what he brings the senators.

I think that's a good deal for them moving forward. And I think that Shane Pinto is flown under the radar really over the last couple years as a player who's grown into someone who's pretty solid. but not the best playmaker, but he brings a whole lot to the roster elsewhere. So good on them. Yeah, I mean, he's tied for the team lead in goals with Tim Stitzler right now with eight,

and he's third in point. And this is a guy that is on paper, probably your third line center. Or if it's like the best, if we're talking about the best Sends roster, we've talked about this during previews. If the Sends lineup is in a perfect world, Shane Pinto is the perfect third line center for a contending team,

He's still young. He's only 25. But this is also a guy who was taking important DZone faceoffs in his rookie season when D.J. Smith was still the coach and I was still in the press box. So he's only grown as that defensively responsible player. But to your point, Sean, and obviously the stats speak to the offense that he can provide from the middle of the lineup as well. So it's a nice contract for Shane Pinto. Good news for Ottawa Senators fans. I don't know. Maybe we can ask Mike Russo about Shane Pinto's. Olympic team prospects because Mike Russo has like one million jobs.

National writer, Minnesota Wild writer. He's covering the U.S. men's team for head of the Olympics. He's helping out on women's hockey. He was at Rivalry Series with me. He's a podcast guy now. He joins us. It's Mike Russo. How did you make the time for this?

This is crazy. I know. Well, the wild canceled practice today, so it was perfect. Yeah, so you thought you were going to have a day off. And then we were like, hey. Want to come on the show? Yeah, yep. I can tell you, I mean, you know, Pinto is definitely on their radar.

You know, I've talked to Bill Guerin and Chris Callagher about the team all the time. But, but as Sean mentioned, I think it is, you know, still he's on the outside looking in just because they have so many good players. Although I will say the other day, man, what a bad night for USA hockey and injuries. I mean, Austin Matthews gets her. Quinn Hughes gets banged up. Demko, who's on the radar, gets banged up. And obviously we know the chucks are out. So, I mean, you know, health is going to be paramount at the end of December and then trying to figure out the roster.

But there's other players that were on the outside looking in of four nations that are just sort of ahead of him. You know, Tage Thompson has a great chance to make the team. I think Maddie Nyes and Logan Cooley have had great starts, Clayton Keller. Colt Cawfield is one that's going to be a lightning rod. I'm telling you as we get closer. Like, I don't think he is making the Olympic team if they are healthy. And, you know, I know. And, you know, I know.

I know that's throwing tomatoes at russo yeah I mean it just you know I think I think he has every right to be there um you know and in three on three overtime which there is in the Olympics. Who else do you want on the ice than than that guy? Um, but you know, they they do want to, you know, they have to have enough penalty killers. There's only so much power play time to go around and and if he's not going to be in your top six, which most likely he really would not with the lineup that they're bringing to Milan. It's just they don't know if that he could play in a bottom six role. But to me, you know, you bring 14 forwards. If he's your 13th and 14, something that you could throw into a lineup if need be. That's not a bad player to have, but we'll see how it shakes out as we get closer to December 31st when they pick the team. I think he occupies in that wave, like based on your description there, he occupies a similar to space to what Bedard does for Team Canada, right? Where you love him on a top six, but you're not 100% sure that the minutes are going to be there. And you're reasonably sure that he's not going to be able to play down.

in a best line up, right? To me, Russo, I think you, I think you nailed it. I think where it makes the most sense for those guys to go is as the 13th or 14th forward because those are like the break in case of emergency guys. Those are the guys where if the tournament starts and, you know, Jack Eichel or Jack Hughes gets hurt or whatever and you want someone to step into the lineup

up and maybe provide a pop, I think those are the dudes who you want to have around. So I get it. I get the logic. It's tried and true and proven that you don't necessarily want players with that profile to do a round peg in a square hole on a fourth line in a best on best tournament. But at the same time, injuries happen. God knows we saw that last year at Four Nations. There's worse fates to have than toting Connor Bedard or Cole Coffield as a

guy to have around. Yeah, completely agree with you. And it's just going to be interesting the way that this does all shake down because, you know, there were certain players like Adam Fox, I think, was on the outside looking in, coming into their orientation camp in August just because he had a tough Four Nations. But look at him. He's gotten off to a great start playing for Mike Sullivan. And so I think that he's back sort of on the radar. Jack Hughes is somebody that in the Four Nations was not very good on the wing. So I think they're going to move him to center. But now that all of a sudden hurts a Logan Cooley's chances of making the team. But that's where Tage Thompson becomes valuable because he can, if he, he's not playing center, you can easily

put him at wing where other players like Cole Coughfield, you probably can't make those type of decisions. So it's just going to be fascinating the way it comes along. And you're right, Bedard and to me, Cawfield are in that same ilk and where a guy like Cellebrini is very different because you could put him in a bottom six role and be very, very comfortable. but just his compete level, his grid, his ability to check, all that type of stuff. So, you know, Celebrini, I think is definitely, like, I'd be shocked if he's not playing for Canada in the Olympics. Only one person has more goals than Cole Coffield in the NHL, and none of them are American either. The highest scoring American in the NHL, it's Cole Coffield, maybe not on the Olympic team.

But that's enough men's Olympic chat. I need to know Mike Russo's biggest takeaways from the Canada USA Women's Rivalry Series. for context for people who are like, why is Mike tweeting from Cleveland? Mike's going to be in Milan for the Olympics, obviously, with the men, but helping me with the women's tournament, which is very exciting because it's going to be a lot.

So having Mike throw his hat in the ring to do some women's Olympic coverage is going to be awesome. He's putting in the work in Cleveland and Buffalo last week. During rivalry series, the first two games, the Americans completely whooped the Canadians. I'm not worried. about it still early. We've got time until Milan, but Mike, what were your immediate reactions to the U.S. women's roster? Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, I will say I had a blast. You know,

I was. I felt, you know, I went in there with trepidation because I, you know, I'll be honest, you get tunnel vision when you cover the Minnesota wild and that's all I sort of pay attention to. And then all of a sudden, you go there. And that's why I think it was such a great idea for, by Naoko or editor to send me to shadow you is, is to learn not only the, rosters and the players, but to meet the people around the rosters and the players and get to know them. And so I appreciate you introducing me to everybody. And it was actually, it was truly awesome watching you work and seeing how hard you worked, especially on the practice day when you probably interviewed about 20 players and staff and all that stuff. So it was great. And I was again, I was telling

Naoko, you know, who's our senior managing editor of the NHL. She's her head boss, just how great it was to work with you. So, so there, there's my kissing up there. Yeah. Did you, did you, did you make you carry your laptop bag? Exactly. Exactly. He got my Starbucks order. Yep. Yep. So it was, it was a real fun. But I was blown away by how good the U.S. women were. And, and to your point, I mean, it's, it's very early. It's a long time, you know, until Milan's still. And, you know, judging from talking to Troy, Troy, there, Troy Ryan, the Canada coach, this is not the first

time that they've started a little bit slow. They also, as we wrote in our story after the weekend, is they left a lot of women home that were going to be that are going to be key fixtures to this team. So I don't think that we make too much of that. But I do, I do say that we saw, I think the best of the U.S. women and how good they and formidable of the team that they are going to be in Milan. I just look at some of those women like, like Abby Murphy. I mean, she is like, you know, It's funny because we all kind of like, you know, assume that she's going to be this, as you say, shift disturber. But then you forget about how great of a player she is and how fast she is, lead of a shot she is. The empty neck goals that Troy Heise was essentially setting her up with and how you have to respect both Taylor Heise's, you know, shot to her passing ability.

Yeah. So I just think that they, you know, and then you look at Hillary Knight who's 15 years older or 12 years older than both. and how good she still is on the international stage. Layla Edwards, Skammer, the great goaltending they had. They are going to be a handful when we get to Milan in February 5th when that tournament starts. There was one of these things where when Mike came, I almost wanted to give him like zero context. Like I'm not going to give you any information about any of these people. I want to see who pops.

But like I couldn't help myself with Abby Murphy. I was like, that's the one that you need to. be aware of. And I think you were already familiar with Abby from University of Minnesota. Obviously, you would have known Taylor's. But it's one thing to, like, know of these players or know of their, like, makeup or the scouting report. And then it's another to see, um, Abby Murphy constantly being open back door. Taylor, Heise sliding or the puck. Like, Abby Murphy's got a wicked shot. Um, and her entire package with the, um, like everyone says, she's a more. of like a Matthew Gachuk, a Brad Marchand type player. And I remember writing a big story about her. And one of the things John Robleski said that always stood out is like, yeah, she runs around and she has antics. But like the only reason that works is because she's also one of the most skilled and like best players in the game.

Because if she was just running around and running her mouth and doing that stuff, but she couldn't back it up with her points, people would just laugh in her face and be like, whatever dude, like go back to the bench. like she is legitimately one of the most talented players in the sport and she's also one of the most irritating to go up against like she is truly a unicorn and going to be an X factor for the Americans. She is the only player who brings the like OG hatred to the Kennedy USA rivalry and the way that like it used to in 1998 or 2002 when they wouldn't even go in the elevator together. Like Abby Murphy brings the like old school like you're Canadian. I don't like you and I don't care what happens in the ice here. Yeah, it's funny that you said that because I remember telling you, I happen to be staying at the same hotel as both Team Canada and Team USA at the robbery series when it was in San Jose last year.

I was shocked the day after this cutthroat game over at HP Pavilion. I go down and I have breakfast and I walk into this one area and you have Team USA's breakfast room here and Team Canada right there and they're all in the elevator lobby together. They just played this. I didn't even know that they were at the same hotel. So it's, it is funny. Abby is cool too.

Like, what a great quote. Her and Heisey and Layla. I mean, all of them, like, they're such great quotes. It was,

so that was fun. I did feel like a scout because, you know, you kind of go in blankly and you don't know too much. Obviously, I see the frost here and I see Taylor Heisey almost daily because their locker room is right next to essentially the rink where the wild practice. But to watch them,

like one of the first things I said to you, when we were watching the game in Cleveland is like, who is number four? Like she is one of the best skaters I've ever seen. Yeah. And it was Caroline Harvey and you're like, she is going to probably be the top pick in the draft. So I kind of, you know, you go in there and you're, you know, you're kind of blind to this. And so that's why I think it was awesome. Also sitting with you during the games because you were giving me context and telling me

storylines of all these players, not just what they are like on the ice. And I think that's the most important thing when we get to Milan from a storytelling standpoint is that, you know, you don't want to just write boring games. game stories. You want to have, uh, be able to tell really good features and, and, uh, so I'm really looking forward to,

to covering it, uh, that both them and the men's tournament. So he's got an eye for talent. Caroline Harvey's good. Isn't that, isn't that fun? That's like that, that truly a few years ago.

I know, but, but then you feel like a bit of an idiot too. And when, when Haley's like, uh, she's like, she's like,

she's like the top prospect at all of women's hockey. So it's like, you feel like, if you come into stuff, Good that you, yeah, that you recognized it, but then, like, dumb that you never heard of her. So, there you go. You got to, like, preface everything the right way. You're like, I know, like, not super familiar with this, but I think, I think number four is pretty good.

That's the way I felt a couple years ago with Abby Murphy. I was like, I was watching the Olympics. Like, wait a second, is this, right? It is fun. It's fun. It's fun seeing new players and, you know, having those moments where you're like, wait, this feels like, this feels like someone important. and then talking to someone who actually knows what they're talking about, like Haley and being like, okay, vindicated, good.

I'm glad I have enough of an eye for talent that I can spot the best player on the ice at any given time, like, good for me. And I know the scores were lopsided, but the games were good. I mean, obviously both teams were a little rusty in, you know, in Cleveland. And, you know, as Haley also explained to me, which was, you know, I would not have known this context, but, you know, you have a lot of these college women on the, on the U.S. team that have been playing together for 1012 games or playing for 1012 games. So they're buzzing. Like the Abby Murphy is just, it's sort of in midseason form where a lot of the team Canada players

haven't had that ability, especially because most of them are professional and haven't played in months. So, so that was good. But, you know, like that game in Buffalo was a one goal game until the third period. Like Canada came out absolutely on fire, so much better than they were in Cleveland. And Phillips was great. They, they weren't very efficient. They, they missed some nets and things like that. But, you know, they score early in that game, and it's a very different type of contest. And, you know, in the third period, obviously the rails fell off. But that was, you know, as Troy Ryan pointed out after the game, that score was not exactly indicative of what we saw for 40 minutes. So, you know, I'll be interested to see how both these teams look when we get to Edmonton next month.

Yeah. And I think the important context for Canada, too, before we wrap here, obviously, and Mary Philip Poulin, the captain of the team, no needs no real introduction. She said the games weren't she. Two bad losses to start rivalry series, but she wasn't worried. They had a good start. They have a good team. So do we. It's going to be a battle.

It always is. And it's important to know that, like, we're talking about Gwen Phillips and Aaron Frankel playing in the U.S. network as Canada was giving auditions to their number three and number four goalie. Troy Ryan was really just saying like, and Renee Debian, you stay home, you train, you chill. It's going to be a really long season with the PWHL with Ryeye. rivalry with the Olympics, world championships again in November. Like, there's a lot on the calendar over the next 12 months for these players.

And so Canada just said, like, we're going to take some kids. We're going to audition some people. We're going to make sure that we are leaving no stone unturn. We're checking every box. Can Caitlin Kramer be on this team? Can Katie Tabin be on this team? Let's give them a shot. So this was very much like the Canada audition roster against the U.S. 1A group.

You know, like they did not, like Casey. O'Brien, Gabby Hughes, Ava McNaughton, they were in the hotel room, they were in the press box, they were not playing. These are players who are on the outside, they're on the bubble, and they were not in the lineup. So this was very much like the U.S. Olympic team versus the Canadian audition. That's really fun. That's two different approaches to Ross are building there, right? Like, I think that's fascinating. It's the juxtaposition between the U.S. and Canada in that regards always, always something to watch. Well, Troy Ryan looks at the Olympic quad in a different way, like year one is just kind of like, okay, let's get started.

Let's see who we have. Year two and three is like, we want to win, win, win, win, win, win world championships, win rivalry. This is our crew. And then year four, right before the Olympics is just being like, okay, let's make sure we didn't mess anything up. This is our last chance. So a different approach over an Olympic quad from Canada. But I also love the hometown stories of Layla Edwards dominating in Cleveland in our hometown. And then the selfless act by Taylor Heise to fake that shot and drop it to Skamara. for the one goal and essentially another another player that's from Western New York.

And what was neat about that is, you know, Skamer was saying after the game that she could see and hear all the girls that she coaches that were in the stands there. Yes, coach, you know, like screaming when she scored that goal. So just that was a really sweet moment for that game as well. Yeah, I think the Layla storyline is obviously a great one. She grew up in Cleveland Heights, Ohio. this is a huge year. Like this is a big year for women's hockey,

a huge year for Layla Edwards. Like she had this big homecoming. She had over 100 friends and family in the building. She's in the midst of a huge positional change still from forward to defense. She's trying to make her first Olympic team. This is her final year at Wisconsin. She wants to win another national championship this time in this new position. And without Casey O'Brien, like this is more Layla's team than it has ever been.

and obviously trying to be one of the top picks in the PWHL draft. This is a huge draft class with Caroline Harvey and Layla Edwards, Kirsten Sims, Tessa Janicki, Lacey Eden, Abby Murphy. So this is a big year for Layla and she got to kind of kick it all off with a big homecoming game. So just a ton of storylines in women's hockey right now. And it's cool that Mike got a chance to kind of see and watch it. And I was a huge, huge Larry Nance fan as a kid.

and see his Larry Nance Jr. wearing Layla's jersey into the Cleveland game the night before. That was pretty cool, too. All right. Let's take a break. When we come back, we're going to talk to Mike Russo a little bit more. This time about the Minnesota Wild. That's coming up next on the athletic hockey show. All right, welcome back to the athletic hockey show. Mike Russo is still with us. We are taking off the women's hockey hat. We are putting on the Minnesota Wild hat. I'm so sorry to make you do this. I know. I know. Mike Russo, Mike Russo, moonlighting from his.

primary gig is the, as the U.S. women's reporter to cover the Minnesota Wilde does. We got to start here a little bit more broad. I think, I don't know if you agree with this, but I feel like maybe the season started with some promise, especially when we're talking about Creole Caprizo's contract extension, right? Like you have this positivity or this optimism for the, you know, president in the future. Struggled like immediately out of the gate the Wild did. They're now 7-7 and 4.

they kind of came out of it this last little bit after the players meeting, but still just like middling team more actually at the bottom of the division and the league in general. Just what's going on in Minnesota, Mike? Help us out. No, it's well said. I mean, it came in with promise. They obviously got Caprice off signed and everybody was all optimistic coming in. And they start off with a 5-0 shutout in St. Louis.

So then just had a bit of a tailspin to start the year. Last year, they started with a seven-game road trip right out. after a couple home games and they were unbelievable on that road trip and came back feeling great about themselves. And this one was the complete opposite. And so I think they won what, three of their first 12 games. You know, as you mentioned, Haley, they've kind of gotten out of it lately. They've gotten points in six of their last seven. But disappointing losses the other night, two couple of them were they against San Jose. They've lost in overtime. And these are, that's a team as good as Macklin-Salabrini is and Will Smith is. That's a team. That's a team.

that the wild should comfortably handle and they didn't do it in either game. So it's been a really disappointing thing. They've been mediocre in almost every metric. Their power play is riding them right now. That is the one area where they've been elite right from the start of the season to now. Their penalty kill had starting to write its ship until they gave up a big power play goal the other night on a tying goal to send the game into overtime by Will Smith. But it's just, you know, everything has been, they're not getting secondary scoring. Caprice up and boldie have sort of been up and down after Boldie started really hot. Capri Soff's been, you know, a lot of turnovers and hasn't really had the big moment in a game yet.

Their goaltending has been really average. So it has definitely not been a great start to the season for the wild. The last full game in there as I watched, it seemed like it was when they bottomed out. It was a four one loss of the Penguins on October 30th. they looked awful. Like I was like, this is a bad, this is a bad five on five team right now. They, they, in particular. Yeah, and credit to the penguins, I suppose, for the start they're having.

But if you had said to someone six weeks ago that Pittsburgh was going to beat the breaks off of them and really take control of that game, I'd have laughed in your face. But we have seen them turn it around to some extent over the last little bit. and they've been a better five on five team by the metrics at least has what's changed there what are they doing better like from an on ice

five on five perspective to pull themselves out of that tail that tailspin because like you said they are they're four and two uh or well whatever they've had they've got points in points in uh what is it five of their last six I mean that's it like they're they're doing what they need to do

especially after the way they look to start so how have they cobbled together something little bit more passable at five on five here. Well, you know, they definitely defended much, much better. Their blue line has been much, much better. I think one big thing that John Heinz did is he, you know, like Spurgeon was playing with, with Z. Boyam, and David Jurecheck was playing with Jake Middleton. And Jake and Spurgeon have been longtime partners. And I just think that, you know, for these young kids, you know, it's still a work in progress with them at an even strength. And even though sometimes it feels like you're picking on the young kids and not the veterans,

I think that Spurgeon and Middleton were eating minuses. And finally, John decided, you know what, we're going to play the kids together and put them back together and try to get them feeling really well and give, you know, sheltered minutes to the younger guys. And it seemed to work. I mean, Spurgeon and Middleton, Milton's been sick the last couple of games and has missed, but Spurgeon and Milton have been much, much better. Faber is looking much more like himself.

He's been one of their better players for seven or eight games now. you know, after a really, really tough start for him. So I think that's the one area where, you know, they start to really take care of their own end and defend better and that leads to offense. And that has, they've scored enough to win some games, you know, a two nothing win over Calgary the other night. The other night, you know, they only were trying to ride one goal to the finish and obviously had a disappointing overtime loss to San Jose.

But that was a game where they absolutely controlled from start to, unfortunately, at the very finish, where they lost the game. but they controlled every second in between that. And so, you know, they're starting to look much more like themselves, play with more of an identity. And I think that's the biggest thing that we're starting to see right now. I did want to ask about Faber specifically because you said it. It's a pretty rough start to the season. He's right of the ship a bit recently, but he's still been on for 15 against and 10.4.

You know, his ex-goal shares sub 50. Like the body of work on the season is still not particularly good. Is there any, is there something to read into there? Is it just a rough start to the season or is, or is there something more at play? I think, I think it's just a rough start to the season that I think he looks much more like himself the last seven or eight games. So he had such a rough start to the season, Sean, that it's going to take a while to sort of catch up. For sure. He's, he's looked so much better.

I think part of it is, you know, look, the one thing about him is like, obviously he's in the first year of an eight and a half million dollar deal. But with Zeve Boyham and Jared Spurgeon, he has gotten almost no power play time. And so, you know, he's got a, he's got to show his success or be successful in different areas. And when you're not on the power play, you can't be scored on, scored on. And he was scored on and scored on. As he said to me in a one-on-one interview, it feels like I've been on the ice for a million goals. But then it's been like, like clockwork where it's, it's sort of changed. And he looks more like the player that we saw at the four nations that was in a shutdown role with Jacob Slavin. He's still going to be on the Olympic team. I promise you that no matter how

he might have started this season. I didn't even bother asking out. You can write his name in 10. But he's he's a hell of a player. He is one of those guys, Sean, that you have to watch up close and personal every single night to really appreciate everything that he could do. And, you know, they tried to lower his ice time and it didn't work. And so now they're giving him more ice time. They've put him back on the number two power play. And he looks more like himself. And so I have an immense amount of respect for this kid. He's a true pro. And I think he's just going to be, he's the least of their worries right now. Let's put that way. I wanted to ask about the early impressions on Z. William, Mike, because I don't know if you know this, but I chose him to win

rookie of the year when we did our little awards draft. Did anyone select Matthew Schaefer? No, don't go back and listen to that podcast. Maybe we all made a mistake. That's a whole other episode. We got a good 45 minutes in us about Matthew Shaper. I am politely said, like, I feel like it's weird that none of us are picking Shaper, but I don't know what's going to happen on Long Island this year. So I'm going to go with Zeev Bouillon just because I need, you know, the Russo Army at my back on my side. So did I make a good selection? How's he been?

Yeah, no, he's been good. I think he's going to get better and better. What I've really liked about him the last couple weeks is he started to defend really well. I mean, look, there's just certain things at 19 years old that you can't do at the National Hockey League level that he was able to get away with the Canadian level at the college level, you know, going one on one, one on five against the players at the college level. He was able to make it work. Sometimes you just can't do that in the NHL. And he was doing things in the first couple of weeks of the season, I think was probably going to give Jared Spursion a heart attack at even strength. And Spurgeon's type of player that can protect anybody from an insulation standpoint. So I think he's been much, much better. They did take him off the number one unit for a while, put him on the number two unit. All of a sudden, that unit started scoring. Now he's the last game, at least, he was back on the number one unit. He's going to be an absolute superstar in this league.

I just think it's going to take a little time. I mean, he's 19 years old, whether he wins the Calder or not. You know, that's obviously Matthews's gotten off to an incredible start in New York, and he's an incredible player. But he is going to have a long, long career where he's going to do things for the while that they've never had before. from the back end. And so I think that he's going to be just fine. But it, you know, he's got to be coached at this level. And it's what I love is that it's coming. We've just seen him play so much better and so much more reliable from a defense standpoint in the last couple weeks. And that coincides with their, you know, a little modest hot streak right now. I was talking to a coach

yesterday about Connor Bedard and Matt Consell Burney and Leo Carlson. You can kind of see where this is going. It'll be a story that goes up eventually. And the way the coach described what Bedard has done this season is that it took him two years, but he figured out what he can't do against NHL players. He figured out the stuff that maybe worked in the CHL, his previous level, that doesn't anymore. And that took Connor Bedard, it looks like, to some degree, two seasons to figure out. So I think the fact that we're talking about Booiam in those terms where he has that cameo at the end of last season, you know, maybe has a little bit of a tough start.

If that light bulb is already starting to go off for him, you know, 20 games into the season or wherever we are, I think that speaks very, very positively of him. Like he's, if he's figured it out to that degree already, something that takes a lot of guys a lot longer to figure out if they ever do, I think that's a really good sign for him, you know, in his long-term development. Yeah, I'm totally with you. I mean, 19 years, I can't imagine playing this sport at 19 years old and that that position at 19 years old. I mean, just think about all of us at what we were like at 19 years old. I'd rather not. Yeah, although I was a sports writer.

Yeah, you were a 10-year sports writer in South Florida. Yeah, I had already five years under my belt. But could you imagine playing the National Hockey League on that position at that age? I mean, it's just, it's, it's truly unreal. And, you know, I remember sitting down with Boudard at the NHL media tour in Vegas in September. And you and I have covered that together before Sean. And I remember telling Pierre when we got to, Pierre LeBron was with me there. And I remember when we got done with Baudard, I said to Pierre, I'm like, he's going to have a big year.

You could just tell like one. I think the criticism last year was pissed him off. And when you have an elite, you know, game breaking blue chip type player like him, that's going to probably motivate you to get better. We saw the videos of him having such a huge offseason as well. And he looks like he is just, he looks faster on the ice.

And so not to change this from Boyam to Bedard, but I've been truly impressed with him this season. It's a huge reason why Chicago's got it off to such a quality start. And, you know, I mean, Boyam, it's just going to, it's going to take time. But he is so dynamic. with the puck. He does things that you have to, I think the wild need to unleash him a little more.

You know, the one area that we have not seen him play at yet is three on three. Well, the wild have lost four games in overtime. So it's enough. Let's see him. It's obviously not going to hurt worse, right? So, I mean, you know, let's see him. Like if, you know, the way I look at it is that the wild felt that he could play on the number one power play against Las Vegas in the playoffs. And, you know, it was because if you're going to have Zeev, him in the lineup, you got to put him in that position to succeed. This was when he was 19 years old going in the Stanley Cup playoffs to debut. And now he's not even on three on three in the regular season. Just unleash him at least in that area and let him do. And if he messes up defensively,

well then, you know, all right, that's part of the growing pains. But it's stuff that you have to accept when you're playing young kids in the lineup. But put him in a position where he could help you win a game. And so I want to see them let him do a little more stuff. I get the yin and yang when it, you know, the, the push and the pull in the, in the, in five on five and regulation where you've got it, there are just certain things that you have to do at this level that you can't do at other levels, you know, from a defensive standpoint and responsibilities and things like that. But three on three, let him go, man. He's a thoroughbred. All right. So obviously the wild have, you know, as you said, this, you know, little hot streak

right now. But Bill Garan has still said he's not afraid to make big changes to this roster. And arguably, maybe they should, given how they started. And there's obviously questions about like, what is this window? What is this aging? Corey? You have all these young players. But I guess the big question is, are the Minnesota Wild actually going to make a run at the Wild killer himself, Jordan Cairo? Well, I mean, they're certainly interested. If he's available, there's no doubt the Wild will be interested. We have seen Doug Armstrong trade players before. Usually they're rentals inside the division. You know, like I'm thinking of, was it Stasney that was, was it not, was it not, was it Stasney that was traded that he traded to, to Winnipeg? He's done stuff like that before.

But that again is a rental at the deadline, very different than maybe here. You know, somebody that's that's locked and loaded until, you know, past 2030, I believe, and he's 27 years old. But the wild, you know, need that type of dynamic player and they're looking for a top six winner. So there's no doubt the wild have shown interest and are interested. It's just whether or not they have the assets to get it done. The problem with his, you know, while I think he has a really quality contract at 8.1-ish, you know, the wild to make that move would still in season have to give up money off their roster. They have a lot of players with trade protection.

They have a lot of players that maybe they don't want to trade that St. Louis. would probably be interested in. You know, one one thing here is that the wild probably can't trade a center off their roster in a trade like that. I wouldn't think unless it's a bottom six guy. And so that could really affect things. So we'll see where it goes. This is obviously all conjecture.

But the one thing, to your point, Haley, Bill Garon has made it abundantly clear since, you know, even before the summer that he wants to go big game hunting at some point. If he's going to make a trade, like Bill Garon could have made. myriad trades already this season for bottom six guys, fourth liners, things like that. What he wants to do is something that's going to actually come in and impact the roster,

maybe rattle some cages, and be somebody that's part of the future as well. And so we'll see where it goes. There's no doubt that he's trying to do something significant, but at this point, he hasn't been able to do it. There hasn't been really a significant trade in the NHL since mid-July. Right.

And that's in Dakota Joseph, if you include that one in that. otherwise we're talking the Mitch Martin. I don't. I don't personally. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. I was trying to be, I mean, there really hasn't.

Lucas Reichel. I mean, it's hard to make a trade now, especially because everybody has cap space. We all thought that this was going to change it. It made things harder because everything, everybody's got a, you know, got money to spend and assets they want to keep. They're resigning their guys forever. So, you know, it's going to also start to be the most boring dry first ever in this league for a long time now that we're seeing, you know, players get committed to bright and early to try to get

them locked and loaded. We saw that with Shane Pinto today. Yeah, I mean, it seems like the reporting is that the blues at least are kind of open for business. Jordan Cairo, obviously, and some headlines after getting healthy scratched last week by Jim Montgomery. And I saw Elliott Friedman saying that Braden Shenz name's been out there too. So definitely a lot of chatter in it around the blues. And we should get JR on here next week. Don't let the Monday or Tuesday guys take him from me. Or the Wednesday. The hateful Wednesday, Shans.

They cannot take J.R. By the way, Braden Shen is another, like, to me, he screams Bill Garen. And he also is really good, Bill Garen is really good friends with his Asians too, so probably try to persuade him. But, I mean, but, you know, like, that's the one thing about Jordan Kairu that is not, is, like, the wild always have this, this terminology here, grit first. Jordan Kairu is not grit first. He has certainly a skill force.

He's become a passable defensive player over the last couple years. Excuse you. And he loves to score against the wild. Yes, he does. All right. Let's take one more break and then we'll come back and do one final segment here on the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome back to the athletic hockey show. The three of us just wanted to take the time in this final segment to remember and talk about Larry Brooks.

We like everyone in the hockey world were sadden to learn of his death early this morning at the age of 75. Larry Brooks was obviously a fixture in the hockey community, just a Titan in New York specifically, obviously with the New York Post for a long time. Mike, I wanted to start with you here. You are the executive vice president of the PhWA. the organization did send out a nice kind of, I don't want to call it a press release because this was more a collection of stories from people in the group talking about their memories of Larry Brooks.

You wrote something here and I know that Larry is on your mind today. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I've known Larry since 1995 was devastated to learn this morning that he passed away. I, you know, we all knew that he was sick. But, you know, when you still see the news, it's just, it's heartbreaking. You know, Larry, you know, I still remember meeting him in 1995 and being absolutely intimidated. And you know, what's funny about that is as good of friends as I became with him and as much as I respected him, there was still always that, like, you know, every time you talk to him, it's like still like almost like an intimidation. Like he like, this is Larry Brooks.

As you mentioned, Haley, the Titan of, of New York Rangers, what I always respected about him. And, and I still, I laugh because I still picture him typing because I always thought it was hilarious to me. Somebody that was such a titan and wrote so many words would type like him. He was, he was the king Hunter and Pet. Yeah, he was a hunt, hunt, hunt in Peck guy. Yeah. He, um, he, you know, he had this notebook.

And I remember still back in the early days, like he didn't record. I never saw him with a recorder. He wrote down everything. in perfect handwriting. And I always wondered what was in that book. And we used to, you know, the press box at Madison Square Garden used to be in the lower bowl corner without netting. Like if somebody took a slap shot from the left point, we all ducked.

And they had right behind there, you walk up and basically where one of the bathrooms is now was the press room. And I always remember him thumbing through this notebook and always wondering what was in there. And I remember always having a like, I cannot wait to read the article tomorrow because I knew it was going to be different than everybody else. You know, he was gritty. He had a way with words. He wrote like nobody that I'd ever seen before.

By the way, like he just had this incredibly unique style to his writing as well. And he, to this day, had a Sunday column that all of us flocked to read because it was unique, original. You know, in a day and age where a lot of us just grab stuff from others, he was, he was always generating his own stuff. But I always respect about him, too. And I'm kind of the same way is that I much rather be respected by those that I covered than liked. And he he went in there every single day, asked the tough questions, wrote the tough things, even about people that he liked and respected. And then the next morning he always showed up to be accountable for what he wrote. And obviously that led to run-ins from everybody from John Tortorella to Dan Boyle to, you know, lots of different subjects.

But you always respected them. he knew all. And he, if you, if you got into a circle, um, he treated you like gold. And, you know, I looked at him as a friend, somebody that mentored me. Um, and I always, you know, he, he also had this way that if you made him laugh, you felt like you accomplished something that day, because he, he had a game face. Um, and, um, it's still hard, it's so hard to believe. Um, I remember when I was trying to recruit him to the athletic, um, you know, five or six years ago, I was sitting in this Nashville diner on the phone with him for an hour. Um, um, I remember. Um, um, um, um, I was sitting in this Nashville diner on the phone with him for an hour trying to get him to come here. And, um, and, uh, you know, I thought it was

going to happen. It just didn't. Um, so, you know, I, I just feel so bad for his family, his friends, all his colleagues. Um, you know, he was, he was absolutely a legend in our business. Yeah, I, Mike, you, you kind of said it. I think the way he wrote, if you did a find and replace on all the identifying nouns, right? If you just replace rangers' names with random garbage and you took out references of the garden or whatever and really anonymized it, I think you could, you could still tell that it was written by Larry Brooks. He did have, he had that style. And I think that is, it was for generations, really, for a lot of, for a lot of people. I mean, I, when he was at his peak with the feud with Torterella and it was leading sports center and all that stuff.

I was in high school. Like I was I was I was a kid. So I had that background with them, which I think a lot of other people did from afar. But the first the first playoff series I covered in my career was was it was a Caps Rangers series in 2011 or 2012. And it was the first time I'd been to the garden. I mean like there was like there was there were all these roadblocks in this in this series where I was like, oh, my gosh, like look, look where I am, look where I'm standing. And one of them was like watching Larry talk the torts, like, like, you know, off, off to the side after after, after a presser, right? They were just shooting, shooting the bull about whatever.

And I was like, man, that's, that's Larry Brooks talking to John Torterell over there. And yeah, I'd be able to actually, actually, you know, interact with them more closely and, you know, be, be around them a time or two. in other in other situations that was that was really cool he was the kind of and he's the kind of character i think in this business and at the post specifically and in new york media that doesn't exist all that much anymore they're in they're in short supply so yeah i think absolutely i think as a as a profession i think we're we're worse off today than than no doubt i mean he was he was he was a gatekeeper and um you know it was interesting i mean i was reading the the statement by Gary Betman and they have a long history of quarreling, right? I mean, some of those

state of union press conferences back in the day with Larry and Alstrakhan and Tony Gallagher and all these giants in our business just peppering back and forth, Gary, it was something to be seen. He was our PHWA president for a while as well. And, you know, the one thing that, to your point there is that torts respected him. And, you know, even though they quarreled. And I, I used to always use that as a learning lesson. You know, I covered Mike Keenan down in Florida and he and I had some unbelievable battles. But there was a respect level there. And I, and that's the one thing is that I used to use Larry as an example that you still, you know, no matter what you write, you better show up the next day.

No matter what you ask, you better show up the next day and show that that person that you're accountable for what you wrote. And that's what Larry always did. And I know that he, you know, there were a lot of people over the years that didn't love his, his writing and his reporting at times because it was gritty and, and I think fair, but, but definitely pointed at times. But you had to respect him and you had to read him. And he was, you know, he's something, he's somebody that a lot of us look up to. And, and I wrote about it, I wrote about it a little bit in my tribute, but, you know, I'm always appreciative. And this is why I always try to pass it, you know, pay it forward for young hockey writers today is that when I started out when I was 21 years old,

I was so green, so yellow, so intimidated by everything. I remember this one time at Miami Arena, it was after 97 playoffs and Gretzky was sitting alone in this tiny visitor's locker room, and I was so scared to go up to him for a one-on-one. And John Delapina, who now works for the NHLs, just like, go up to him. You know, like there was these older hockey writers, Larry Brooks, Jim Matheson, Jim Kelly, Dave Faye, a couple of them unfortunately aren't with us anymore. Eric DeHatchik, George Johnson, even Al Strachan, like they really treated the younger generation of hockey writers with such respect and really helped guide us along. And I think it's because of the love that they have for this sport that they wanted it

for generations upon generations to be covered with people that love the sport, respect the sport, have passion for the sport. The one thing about being a sports writer is there's a lot of sports writers that look at hockey as a jumping off point as a leap to get to the bigger sports. I want to be a football writer. I want to cover the NBA. I want to be a majorly baseball writer. But there's something about hockey writers that if you're here for if you have a little longevity, we have such appreciation for this sport that it's like we want to make sure that it's taken care of for years to years. And that's the way Larry was to a lot of the young sports writers.

So even though he might have been a little intimidating, even at my age of 50, you know, like, there was just, he, he always treated with incredible respect because he knew that you loved the same sport that he did and we're, and we're sort of taking care of it till the next guys. And as you mentioned, Sean, I mean, it's just, it's a huge loss, I think, for for hockey to not have that voice and that person sort of, you know, writing and telling stories and gatekeeping, you know, keeping people accountable. I just wanted to read, and I'm glad you mentioned what Gary Bettman had said. I just wanted to read a bit of that because I think it does kind of capture a lot of what you said, Mike. You know, he says in part, Larry's love of hockey was evident in his writing at the New York Post in two stints over nearly four decades. Larry didn't pull punches when he read his work. You always knew where he stood. He was a staunch advocate for the players and the reporters who cover the game.

Jimmy Visi also had a really nice thing to say that I wanted to share. Larry Brooks was synonymous with the New York Rangers from the articles to the legendary YouTube videos I watched growing up. Nobody covered hockey like him. It never seemed possible that he wouldn't be around forever. As my six years in New York went on, I was lucky to be on Brooks's good side. He was always in my corner and I looked forward to our informal post-practice talks about the state of our team, the state of the league, college hockey, and family, especially watching his grandson play hockey. He was a legend and one of one, rest in peace, my friend.

I would also encourage everyone if you want to read or learn more. Molly Walker has a really beautiful tribute at the New York Post right now. They were partners for a long time, you know, covering the Rangers, covering New York hockey and obviously becoming friends over the course of their time working at the Post together. It's a really beautiful tribute to a friend that she, you know, thought she had more time. So I would encourage everyone to read Molly Walker's story today.

And we just all extend our sincere condolences to Larry's friends, his son Jordan, his daughter-in-law, Joanna, his grandchildren, all of his colleagues at the New York Post. Yeah. And Molly just had an incredible enterprise piece on Kalev. And I got to think that Larry was so proud of her. Like, I mean, the reporting in that story was incredible. And, you know, Hallie, to your point, that's sort of what I mean. I mean, you know, here was this young hockey writer that came on to work with Larry. And Larry treated her like absolute gold, mentored her.

And they became, I mean, the respect level that they had for each other was really impressive to see. And I think it says everything about Larry. And, you know, he didn't look at her. And it's like, oh, she's going to take my job one day. You know, it was just really cool to watch their partnership as beat writers at the New York pose. Well, Mike, thank you for coming on the show and sharing your thoughts on the wild in women's hockey, but most importantly, you know, sharing some words about Larry Brooks, a friend, a colleague. Sean, thank you again for doing the show. Everyone, we will see you next week

on Thursday.